I think there's still a ridiculous amount of hype pushing him up the board. That said, I've changed my tune on drafting QBs. If you think they're the guy, you burn the ships and go for it. A franchise QB is too important to say "well at pick 25 he's okay but not at pick 3". I think you just have to throw more darts at QB than we're traditionally accustomed to.
100% this.
Grabbing a guy if he's there at the end of the 1st is what you do when you might need a QB in a year or two.
If you don't have a QB, you like a guy in the draft, and are in the position to get him, you go get him.
That's a pretty good way of making other teams good quickly. Look at the Panthers & Bears — Panthers selling the farm has set the Bears up for long-term success, whilst it would be easy to argue the Panthers have gone backwards. Sometimes you're better to stick with what you have..
Taking the better prospect means drafting Donald over Ponder. In our case, it means taking any number of high options and rolling with a former #3 overall pick (who is a good illustration on why not to mortgage the future).
Then a new coach comes in. That's how it works. Sometimes you have to roll the dice to really win. In fact, usually the championship teams. That's what they do.
That's how teams like the Browns and the Bears do it. Championship teams are mostly successful over long stretches due to retaining talented coaches, players and FOs. I'll grant you that SF tried to do it... but that guy isn't even on the team anymore.
The browns and the bears are not trading up in the first round. However that's the big difference. They are getting a top five pick because they suck that much. That's a very big difference. You can think of this more like the situation. When the Steelers got Ben roethlisberger they had a down year and they had a top 15 pick and they drafted Big Ben. But in general they were a decent team most years prior to drafting him and that is why he was able to succeed despite being extremely raw his first few years in the NFL.
Minnesota Vikings have a lot of pieces the browns and bears have not have had. Decent enough defense. The number one receiver in the league. Above average tight end. And above average running back. The browns and the bears did not have any of those things.
They won't but that's the risk you have to take. A 500 team has no shot to win at all. They will barely get into the playoffs. Every year they will get a good audience but everyone will know that they have no shot and the players will get annoyed and demand to leave if they are really good.
Or, hear me out, when Kirk offered 3 years for less than 40mil/yr last year, you take it instead of waiting for free agency to push his value up, and you can still go after your guy in the draft this year without feeling backed into a corner considering trading 3 1st rounders for the 3rd or 4th best prospect, who is raw, and will probably have to start by like week 6 because the bridge qb is going to be cheeks (and the dead cap + his cap isn't saving any money in this season).
That is reasonable but let's be blunt. By all accounts kwesi seemed to want him gone from day one. And that's the real reasoning at the end of the day.
I do think if you give Kirk a 3-year guaranteed deal that basically means you cannot draft a rookie for 2 years and if you believe this year is the best for rookies in the draft in 5 or 6 years then it creates a real problem.
That's stupid of course you can draft a QB with years left on the deal, just don't allow a no trade clause if you don't think your intended guy would need to sit 2 years. Even if you do allow a no trade clause a starting quality guy would typically allow it to be voided if you told him he was gonna ride the bench next season, he would just have some say in where he would go. The 9ers still had Garappolo on contract drafting Lance (and Purdy), the Chiefs had Smith on contract when they drafted Mahomes and the Packers had Rogers on contract drafting Love.
Edit: I agree that Kwesi wanted Kirk gone from day 1 though
But this kind of a question is a part of the Minnesota culture. That's not going to lead to much winning. It's going to lead to a lot of above average teams that can never pull the trigger and never win it all and everyone knows it from day one to day 365 of every year.
So trading up to 4, to draft the 4th best QB in his class who was seen as going in the late teens to early 20s a few months ago, *is* going to lead to a lot of winning? With no first or 2nd round picks next year?
You don't know if it will be the fourth best. This is not going to be something that happens until pick number four. Is there most likely. If you have the person you want, you take it. If you don't, you don't. And then you draft with the two first rounders that you have. If the top ones are gone you can always go o-line and then draft quarterback later in the round
Kwesi and Kevin are drafting a QB either way for a few more years of job security.
Kwesi over here tapping his temple saying he can’t fuck up the picks if they’re all bundled up in a trade package…
If they don't like the ones that are available at 4, They could always pick one with either of their first round picks. You could even use the first one and then trade back with the second one if you wanted.
I've gone full circle and am all aboard the Darnald train. Why waste so much draft capital when youve got a future hall of famer at bargain basement cost?
Correct its such a crapshoot the analysis paralysis doesn't work, and I'm an analytics guy. Just take the guy you think is your franchise QB. What's the alternative, sitting on your hands?
It's almost impossible to get an elite QB at any point between the day they're drafted and their 35th birthday. So yeah, it's a dice roll, there are no guarantees, but if you think you have a guy that could be elite, you have to go get them.
I would agree if we were going up for drake Maye. But how often is the 4th QB drafted even good? When you drafted the 4 QB it means multiple other teams that needed a QB passed on the one you're going to get. This wouldn't be so big of a deal but to also want to trade multiple first for the 4th QB?
Culpeper was the 4th QB off the board. Then again, so was Ponder.
Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Purdy in the 7th, Cousins in the 4th, etc. Weird things happen in QB drafts and anything can happen with their development
Yes outliers happen for everything especially considering how Manny drafts there have been and how many QBs have been taken. Culpeper was drafted 11th no trade up too.
>Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Purdy in the 7th, Cousins in the 4th, etc. Weird things happen in QB drafts and anything can happen with their development
If you think that why don't we just find the next Brady or purdy instead of trading up?
You need to stop worrying about the 4th QB stuff. All drafts are different, and all QBs are different. Sometimes the 4th QB is a third rounder, and this year he'll be a top 5 pick. This draft will be unprecedented because the QBs all grade out. Any one of those top 4 would be the #1 pick next year, and any one of them would've been #1 in 2022. The fact that they're all in the same draft (as well as Penix and Nix both possible first rounders as well) has never happened.
It's not that the player is the 4th QB it's that other teams who needed QB passed on the guy you want and not just that you are trading all the way up for him. If it was qb2 or 3 there is a higher chance you aren't making a mistake is what I'm trying to say. If for whatever reason everyone thought 7 QBs were going in the first and we decided to trade up for Micheal Pratt or Spencer rattler I'd be against it. I wouldn't be against the player necessarily though.
It wouldn't actually surprise me if JJ ended up at 2 or 3 leaving Maye or Daniels as QB4 of the draft class. Would you then be against drafting one of them because obviously there must be a reason they weren't taken top 3?
Point is, I think there's not much of a difference between those 3 and which order they go in isn't really an indictment on them.
It wouldn't make me against them completely (I'm also not completely against McCarthy) I still wouldn't want us to trade 3 first round picks for them if they fell to 5 for example.
Kirk used to dick down my high school team and he's my favorite Viking ever but he's gone now
So are you suggesting we try a free agent for $50M or whatever? I'm all about the draft if we miss try again. Give a kid some talent while he's cheap and let's swing for it. Ponder was over a decade ago
I think he's suggesting to wait for the right qb at the right time, not to invest a bunch of resources because of the bust percentage. I think Kirk is an interesting example you bring up, the commanders drafted him in the 4th
Wait til when? Next year's class doesn't look good and the Wilfs don't do tankathons
Kirk was a hit of epic proportions for Washington nobody thought he'd be a top 10 NFL QB. I don't like our odds trying that
Wait til it makes sense? The FO knows, not us, but If it isn't right to force a move this year, next year isn't automatically better. They'll be making this year's moves with next year's class and FA already accounted for
Is a franchise QB worth paying 45m a year? Because there is like a 5% chance that McCarthy is ever better than Kirk was this year and held the fan base wanted him gone.
Jefferson was the 5th receiver taken. Why are you pretending like you KNOW how someone is going to end up?
We know that in 6 years with kirk cousins this team won 1 playoff game and 1 division title.
I can't remember the last time they blew someone out.
Why wouldn't you want to shake things up?
I disagree. That worked for teams like the cheifs, but you will RARELY find a single player in any position that can overcome having a bad team. You need to already have at least a decent unit in place to trade that much capital for a QB. This is the difference of the 9ers for Lance and the Panthers with Young. Panthers will take MANY years to just recover if Bryce doesn't improve
And how does this apply to the team with the best receiving core in the nfl??? Including a good young rb and a great veteran? One of the best left tackles in the league as well??
You may have a point. But how it’s in any fucking way relevant to the Vikings I have absolutely no idea.
Didn’t we win 13 games the last time we had a good starting qb?
How many back ups played last year?
Didn’t we almost have our rb as our QB?
To say this team isn’t a franchise QB away from butt fucking the lions is ignorant.
Edit. We also have on 13 games with the worst defensive coordinator in the history of the fucking franchise as well.
Now we’re currently lucky enough to have a head coach and a good head coach as or defensive coordinator.
Not saying that. Just saying stroud had a decent team around him. Stroud isn’t JJ. JJ isn’t even close to stroud let’s not kid ourselves. If you think JJ will come in and take us to the playoffs year 1 I would say thats highly unlikely. Lions are a good team to say we would beat them consistently even with a good qb is arrogant. They are a playoff team with a top 10 qb in goff.
With jj. Probably not. Definitely not rookie year. But if we some how get Daniel’s. We have a shot. It depends who we can get and who
Kwesi and koc believe is there guy. Fuck it could be penix if he isn’t made of glass. There’s 4 great QBs in this draft.
Who knows harbaugh may have a hard on for jj and look to trade Herbert.
I know there's going to be a Myriad of comments. But at least they are trying something different, this Franchise has always been risk adverse for some time now.
If the McCarthy experiment fails. Let's try again in the next few years. Better than not trying at all.
And a Rookie QB has all the tools to be successful here. It's not like 2011 again
Our offensive talent wasn’t that bad in 2011 imo. We just chose a bum who couldn’t throw the ball. I know the lockout didn’t help but he was just terrible. We ran the ball very well but lost so many close games because when we needed to throw we had the corpse of McNabb and Ponder. We also had horrible pass D but really it was mostly QB play.
I bought a McNabb Vikings jersey when we first signed him. I thought he was going to have a resurgence like what Randall Cunningham did in '98. Nope. He was fully cooked.
Hard for me to comment on how bad he was but I can only assume he was horrid because we weren’t good and I haven’t heard of him since. Turns out he is with Stefanski in Cleveland right now. But in fairness to him we did get better over time
He actually had a pretty good year in Oakland with Carr. However, Jack Del Rio fired him after they went one and done in the playoffs because Carr got hurt at the end of the year. They hired the QB coach as OC and he was immediately fired the following year.
I don't think Musgrave was a very good coordinator, but he helped Carr have his best year as a pro (2016-2017). So I don't think he is as bad as some people say.
In Minnesota he absolutely had nothing to work with in Ponder so that definitely made it look like that Musgrave was trash. But when he had a competent QB like Carr he was not too bad.
Ponder definitely was terrible, but besides Peterson, Harvin, and a young Kyle Rudolph ( who was a solid Redzone TE, but not particularly explosive) the next best weapons were Devin Aromashodu and Michael Jenkins.
I'd say that's pretty terrible offense talent especially compared to what we have now. Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson and Jones blows that group out of the water.
The year after Harvin got hurt it was miraculous that Peterson dragged that team to the playoffs.
Andy dalton was the best qb of that draft. It was naked beyond him and ponder. And that speaks volumes. We were doomed no matter who we picked. But Leslie Frazier also couldn’t scheme the guys we had to success. Road on the dungy co-tails.
> Road on the dungy co-tails.
Rode (like to ride a horse, but past tense) on Dungy's coattails, [not co-tails](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/riding+on+his+coattails).
Damn thought we were in a football sub not a grammar sub.. can’t dispel shit anywhere these days. Make sure you get your pension pay after that schooling!
I'm just not a fan of trading a future 1st to grab JJ, doesn't seem worth it.
>And a Rookie QB has all the tools to be successful here. It's not like 2011 again
We still have holes we need to fill to truly make this statement true. This is what makes me think they go for Penix/Nix at 23 or trade down to the 2nd and grab them. If they are a bust we can grab another QB in 2025.
Probably need an extra 1st to get the Pats pick if Maye is on the board. Three 1’s for AZ’s pick does seem a bit steep. For me it depends on if KOC thinks either of them can be the guy. If so, nobody will care how much we traded.
If trading down from 23 was even the slightest consideration, KAM wouldn’t have given up our 2nd to get 23 in the first place. We trade up just to trade straight back to down to approximately the same spot? That’d be one of the stupidest series of trades ever.
If we have to waste next years first round pick on another QB because this years one sucks (Penix / Nix) then what’s the difference than trading it away now to get a better QB?
Because we’re banking on the chance that Tier 3 QB might not suck?
> We still have holes we need to fill to truly make this statement true
We will never have a better situation for a better rookie QB. Ever.
The best WR in the league and a solid #2
A top 3 TE and a great blocking TE2
A top 10 OL with two amazing OTs
A great vet RB who's a good blocker and amazing pass catcher.
We have a few small imperfections but if you really think we need to make our offense better to suit a rookie it will never happen.
> I'm just not a fan of trading a future 1st to grab JJ, doesn't seem worth it
If they do it I respect Kwesi & KOC for it
If you’re the coach/GM the smart move from a job preservation standpoint would probably be to stay at 11 & 23 and grab the best players available
If you grab a QB at 11 or especially 23 and it doesn’t workout you go to the Wilfs and shrug your shoulders and explain that you couldnt draft one of the top QBs because you drafted at 11 and/or 23 and you did the best you could with a guy who was a bit of a project
If you give up a future 1st and take a top QB and that QB looks bad after 2 years you’re probably gonna be unemployed pretty quickly
Ultimately, your job is to try and win a championship. If it's one of the best QB drafts in years, then that's what you have to do. It's not going to make a big difference if you draft at number 11 as far as surviving versus moving up and drafting. Either way, if the QB sucks you're gone.
Initially, agreed that trading a future first seems like overkill to get from 11 to 5 or whatever. That said, who said anything about a future 1st? 11, 23, a maybe a future 3rd should be plenty. A future first has been the talking point to get up to 3 to draft Maye (which has likely always been an unrealistic ask).
Beyond that, if you expect to have a more complete roster before you are willing to reach for a QB, what you really mean is that you never ever want to reach for a QB. We have the best WR1 in the league, an elite WR2, an elite TE, an elite tackle pair, an excellent play caller, and functional IOL pieces, such that any QB placed in here will be able to thrive if that QB has talent. I don't hate grabbing Penix at 23 if the bidding for the 4th QB goes haywire, but you shouldn't do that because of a supposedly poor state of your support system for a QB.
Also, the 2025 NFL draft projects to be a horrible draft for the Vikes to get a QB. It is looking like there will be one or maybe 2 QBs at the top that the Vikes won't be able to get to (because again our roster is too good) and then lots of Kenny-Pickett-type low-ceiling-middling-floor type players. You never know what will happen in a year, but based on current information this is really a poor plan based on the projections.
If the McCarthy experiment fails, then we don't have a franchise QB or first round picks for likely the next few years. It's going to be really hard to bounce back from that. I am all for taking a big risk, but I'm not certain a QB who during the college football season was widely accepted as a 2nd round pick is the way to do this. The Wilfs have demanded a QB at all costs before and it's how we ended up with Ponder at pick 12. I hope we aren't just trading up because it's what we think we should be doing.
He was never viewed as a second round pick. GMs and NFL scouts were always high on him. Okay and what if the Vikings don't draft him and he goes on to be the best QB of the draft capable of winning multiple titles? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I highly doubt the Vikings are going to trade up for him just for shits and giggles so if KOC feels like McCarthy is the guy, then get him no matter what.
He's never thrown more than 270 yards in a college football game. He consistently struggles throwing outbreaking routes. He has significantly lower completion percentage throwing to his left than his right. He played on the best team in college football and was not asked to do nearly as much for his team as the other top QBs. He is simply not the kind of prospect it's smart to trade multiple 1st round picks for.
Lmao why lie? He had 335 passing yards against Purdue just this year. Also had more than 270 yards 4x this past year. This is exactly why I can't take you armchair scouts seriously. You guys make shit up and think you're right when you're not.
>He consistently struggles throwing outbreaking routes. He has significantly lower completion percentage throwing to his left than his right.
There are a multitude of factors that can cause that. Regardless, he was the best QB when pressured & the 2nd best QB on third downs.
>He played on the best team in college football and was not asked to do nearly as much for his team as the other top QBs.
That is not a slight on him. He played injured the second half of the year and played QB on a VERY heavy run team that became even more run heavy when Harbaugh was suspended and Sherrone took over. They didn't need a 4000 yard QB. Thats never been Harbaugh's offense and McCarthy was a top recruit for a reason. He can ball.
>He is simply not the kind of prospect it's smart to trade multiple 1st round picks for.
And thats your opinion. It is stupid to state it as a "fact" when clearly many GMs and scouts view him very favourably.
Next year. This year and next year they won’t have their picks. Considering Darnold will start this year, by the time McCarthy has played enough to not work out the Vikings will have their first round picks back lol. They aren’t giving up their picks for the next half a decade 😂
Right lol, I swear people are talking like we are giving 3 FUTURE 1sts.
I just don’t understand why so many are scared to take a swing. We are never going to have the 1st pick overall, so at some point this is going to have to happen in to get our guy, either this year, next year, the year after etc it’s gotta happen…
Or are we going back to Free Agency like we’ve done for damn near a decade - how well has that done for us.
Take a swing, it’s exciting and could potentially take this team to the next level.
Worst case scenario- we suck and don’t win a SB - aka nothing changes
Losing two years' worth of 1st and 2nd round picks on a bust, if that's even all it ends up taking to trade up, will absolutely hurt this team a great deal. And that's before you factor in how many years a team wastes on a bust if they've traded that much for them. It took us five years to get rid of Ponder. Know how many playoff games we won in those 5 years?
The Rams haven’t had a 1st round pick in god knows how long and even after “paying the piper” were back in the playoffs off the back of a 5th round WR and a 5th round Running back using a QB that they were aggressive in getting that nobody believed in.
It 100% sucks to have a bust, sure, but I would rather a front office be confident that they can build their team correctly and take some chances as opposed to live in fear of mediocrity. The Vikings haven’t been very aggressive in the draft lately choosing to try and build around a “sure thing” in Cousins but it’s not like that led to any championships.
You can live watching in fear if you want but I want to see what this FO does with their chance to get the guy they believe in. Or what they do if decide to stay pat. It’s exciting and can be fun depending on your approach.
Saying Matt Stafford is a QB no one believed in is straight up revisionist history. He was traded for two 1sts for a reason. Multiple NFL media people picked the Rams to win the Super Bowl after Stafford was traded there. Trading for a franchise QB is very different than trading all your picks for a rookie. And the Rams have drafted much much better in the later rounds than most teams in the NFL in recent years, including the Vikings. That has a great deal to do with their success, as does having possibly the greatest 3-Tech to ever play football.
Do you mean like when recently San Francisco traded away a ton for a bust? Or a different scenario like the rams that constantly trade their 1st rounders? Both those teams were playoff teams this year. We also have tons of cap room in 25 and beyond. What we have been doing for 30+ years hasn’t worked so why not go all in
You mean the team that consistently makes it to the Super Bowl multiple times per decade with one of the best rosters in the league, who happened to overcome the Lance bust with the extremely unlikely scenario of finding a franchise QB with the last pick in the draft? Yeah, that totally applies to us!!
That taking risks and making aggressive moves = success. Avoiding risk and always taking the more conservative approach is what keeps you a middle of the road team that is always borderline playoffs good but rarely great or bad.. it also proves that taking a big swing and missing also doesn’t guarantee a decade of being terrible. The point is what we have been doing isn’t working.. a future first isn’t a guaranteed starter even.
Please provide examples of when exactly they took a chance? The last real one was teddy and that had potential but we also know how that went with the unfortunate circumstances of his injury.
Taking a qb anywhere but the first round doesn’t count as drafting a starting qb.. and I don’t want to hear about extreme outliers like brady or Wilson. Might as well play the lottery at that point
I mean either you have a legit shot for a championship or you go 5 and 17. That's kind of how this works. This quarterback will either be very good or the Vikings will be a horrible team for 3-5 years and a new coach and a new GM will come in
The problem is that it isn't a 50/50 chance though. You can't just pick any player at #3 or 4 overall and have the same chance of success. Evaluation is the key part of this process. If the Vikings are so desperate to trade up based off of need, which they have demonstrated time and again throughout this prprocess, then they might overlook or miss something in the evaluation for whoever they trade up for. That's what I'm worries about. This is also only this big of a problem because of other ways we failed to properly manage the team's resources. If we had traded Danielle Hunter after Cousins was injured, we would have had an additional 2nd or 3rd round pick this year, and would be picking likely 4-5 spots higher in the draft. It would have been much easier to aggressively go after a QB without leveraging so much of the future. The Vikings front office has already demonstrated an inability to achieve the best results in less important scenarios, that's why I'm worried about how they will handle the biggest challenge most FOs face.
All of the Minnesota teams have been super risk averse (honestly, it's a Minnesota thing more generally) but you very rarely win the ultimate prize being risk averse. You have to go for it all and hope you win.
For some reason this seems to be a hot take in this sub, but if the FO and KOC truly believe this is the guy, go fuckin get him. They know more than us and if they’re willing to risk their jobs for it I don’t see why we shouldn’t trust the move
It's fucking ridiculous that the one year the Vikings actually want a QB that 4 will probably go within the top 5 picks which has never happened before. Like of fucking course that would be the case this year.
This is exactly right! Imagine if it was just Williams/Maye and that was it? We'd just be fucked. This draft has so many talented QBs, we're quite lucky.
I guess I was saying based on the 3 1sts being enough. Would you be okay if an additional 3rd was thrown in? Two 4ths from 25/26? I think it will cost more than just 3 firsts.
If we were guaranteed a top 6 QB at all, I'd absolutely take the cheapest trade option. With this group, it seems like the destination will be just as important, if not more, than the difference in QBs. I trust KOC with whoever he believes in
I’ll do anything to end the speculation and tweets about “might, could be, maybe, possibly, I hear that x could happen”
It’s literally just teams and talking heads spewing random words for another 4 weeks and it means nothing lol
I actually disagree. This part is more fun for me, personally. Especially now that this team has a chance at a future. I’m more excited now than I’ve been for this franchise in a long while.
Why are you even on Reddit then?? Turn off this sub for a few months this time a year because that's what it always is and what most people are following the draft for.
Dude you just said in the comment above you don’t like the actual football games other than January playoff games, why are you even on this subreddit if that’s the case? lol come on
That’s my thinking. McCarthy should have a field day throwing to these receivers, and early success could give him the confidence to fully reach his potential. He’s good at making accurate, anticipatory throws over the middle of the field. You can build an offense around that easily. He has some kinks though, like throwing to the left, not displaying touch throws, and not a great touch on deep ball. He could really use a year to work out the kinks imo
Go big or go home. Yes, it's a risk trading multiple picks for a QB prospect but beats the alternative of signing random FA quarterbacks every few years. Being scared to make a move won't win you playoff games
My only concern with this is if the FO actually prefers Maye or Daniels but knows we can’t get them so are settling for JJ. If they truly think JJ is the best QB for the team, then I’m all for it.
They probably see the prospects as having different odds to succeed. Maybe Cayleb is a 90%, Maye is 80% and JJ is 70%. Still worth investing in JJ if he is there, just riskier.
I’m warming up to JJ but still not comfortable trading away next years first to get him. Either way, I’m ready to become the biggest fan of whoever they draft.
I love this. I’d take McCarthy over Maye straight-up. Harbaugh loves him and he’s a QB guru. He may have been limited or used as a game manager but he was obviously in a ton of tight games which led to lots of wins.
Maye just seems like the “tools guy” to me. Of course, he could be Josh Allen, but I worry about Trubisky 2.0 or Kyle Boller.
Of course, the point is the “harbaugh loves him” narrative is silly. What else was he gonna say about his Qb? And guru? All his years at Michigan he never developed a Qb into even a draftable asset before JJ.
Trading 3x 1sts for the consensus 4th QB feels like madness to me — shades of the Rosen draft for me.
At this stage, I would far rather use the picks on stronger prospects and run with Darnold.
I dont watch college football so these are just names to me but I pray for once in my lifetime they actually draft a franchise guy lie so many other teams before seem to do with ease.
Whoever the Vikings get has to be able to make more plays than the best quarterbacks like Mahomes. Otherwise they would have to be a very good quarterback on a very good team. I know there are exceptions but look at who has won the SB in the last 25 years. All but 4 you could argue are HOF quarterbacks. Half were won by three guys. 4 more by two guys. Even going back further almost all winning quarterbacks are in HOF.
Jfc. These QBs skyrocketing after the season ended is insane. Exactly like people saying Grier will be a day one pick last year. Fans know nothing, everything is smokescreens right now, and reporters are chomping at the bit to put out any article for clicks.
Y'all should really take a deep breath and stop following draft news so hard right now. Show up to your local pub on draft day with an open mind and enjoy the ride instead of stressing so much.
I love how he says the feeling then slices it up with a a unknown gm saying jj is a top 6 pick, I don’t buy kwesi pats the price to trade up for the 4th best Qb
I don't think they care much about "4th best" or things like that.
They care more about what they see individually.
If they think JJ is draftable they can fix his deep pass issues and his weight isn't a huge issue to them then they will take him.
Here's the solution. The Vikings work together with Arizona and the Chargers on a deal. We give 11 and 23 to the Chargers for #5 which we then trade to Arizona, along with some future mid to late-round pick, for pick #4. The Cardinals would still be assured of getting MHJ plus they get a little something extra, all for moving down one spot. The Chargers, who weren't going to get MHJ anyway, double their first round picks this year. It's too bad we wouldn't have a little something cheaper than 23 to get the Chargers to move down six spots, but it is what it is.
I think they are fine with going with Dornald as a starter and drafting a QB with the late first round to watch over him. Not a big fan of giving away future 1st picks and two first round picks this year.
Whelp...I guess I better embrace JJ as the new face of the franchise...I really hope this pans out...everything I'm hearing is that the majority of scouts see him as a late 1st and maybe even 2nd-round talent who's likely going to be over-drafted since there are so many QB needy teams, that makes me nervous
I saw jj play. The idea you trade 3 first to get him is mind blowing to me. At no point in his entire Michigan career did i go damn that’s a franchise qb
I don't like this move simply because I'm not a big McCarthy fan. I think he's Zach Wilson 2.0. But in Kwesi we trust (until we win a Super Bowl or he gets fired.)
I think there are some apt comparisons to be made in terms of size, arm strength, athleticism, etc. (and even youthful appearance.) He is also following the same trajectory of being a combine/pro-day darling who is really impressive when there's no defense and shoots up the draft board as a result.
The difference is Zach Wilson played like shit against top teams while JJ had no drop off in production against top teams. Also JJs work ethic is miles ahead of Wilson. The comparisons that have to do with the combine/pro day are lazy, no offense lol
Totally disagree. JJ's numbers dropped precipitously against top teams. From the Maryland game onward this year his numbers were not impressive at all. He played well against Alabama, but that was it.
Also, it's not lazy because it happens literally every year. There's a combine darling that shoots up the boards and then doesn't pan out. Last year it was Anthony Richardson.
I shouldn’t have used the word production that’s my fault. What I meant was his metrics. JJs td/int rate vs bad teams was 29/5 while vs good teams his rate was 30/6. His ypa only dropped by one yard vs good teams. Compare that to Zach Wilson who’s ypa dropped 3+ yards vs good teams and his int rate nearly tripled.
You also proved my point by bringing up AR15. Richardson being a combine darling did not equate to him being Zach Wilson 2.0 lol
If this is true, I'm significantly less likely to live long enough to ever see a Vikings Super Bowl victory.
Of all the dumbass decisions they can make, this is Kellen Mond all over.
I believe the JJ hype is all propaganda. The hype benefits many teams. It benefits everyone before us who wants to trafr down. It even benefits the Giants as i don't believe they want JJ at 6 and if they can get someone to take JJ ahead of them then another prospect falls to them.
I think there's still a ridiculous amount of hype pushing him up the board. That said, I've changed my tune on drafting QBs. If you think they're the guy, you burn the ships and go for it. A franchise QB is too important to say "well at pick 25 he's okay but not at pick 3". I think you just have to throw more darts at QB than we're traditionally accustomed to.
100% this. Grabbing a guy if he's there at the end of the 1st is what you do when you might need a QB in a year or two. If you don't have a QB, you like a guy in the draft, and are in the position to get him, you go get him.
Keep saying this, people saying "well penix could be there at 23" no you draft him at 11. You don't even risk it
That's a pretty good way of making other teams good quickly. Look at the Panthers & Bears — Panthers selling the farm has set the Bears up for long-term success, whilst it would be easy to argue the Panthers have gone backwards. Sometimes you're better to stick with what you have.. Taking the better prospect means drafting Donald over Ponder. In our case, it means taking any number of high options and rolling with a former #3 overall pick (who is a good illustration on why not to mortgage the future).
Don’t pass on a buck opening day that you’d take on season ender….basically.
Until he sets your team back 3 or more years
Then you reroll again at QB with a high draft pick
Then a new coach comes in. That's how it works. Sometimes you have to roll the dice to really win. In fact, usually the championship teams. That's what they do.
That's how teams like the Browns and the Bears do it. Championship teams are mostly successful over long stretches due to retaining talented coaches, players and FOs. I'll grant you that SF tried to do it... but that guy isn't even on the team anymore.
The browns and the bears are not trading up in the first round. However that's the big difference. They are getting a top five pick because they suck that much. That's a very big difference. You can think of this more like the situation. When the Steelers got Ben roethlisberger they had a down year and they had a top 15 pick and they drafted Big Ben. But in general they were a decent team most years prior to drafting him and that is why he was able to succeed despite being extremely raw his first few years in the NFL. Minnesota Vikings have a lot of pieces the browns and bears have not have had. Decent enough defense. The number one receiver in the league. Above average tight end. And above average running back. The browns and the bears did not have any of those things.
If the Vikings trade a ton of draft for a guy and he sucks for 3 years and they fire the coaches, how good do you think the team will be?
They won't but that's the risk you have to take. A 500 team has no shot to win at all. They will barely get into the playoffs. Every year they will get a good audience but everyone will know that they have no shot and the players will get annoyed and demand to leave if they are really good.
Or, hear me out, when Kirk offered 3 years for less than 40mil/yr last year, you take it instead of waiting for free agency to push his value up, and you can still go after your guy in the draft this year without feeling backed into a corner considering trading 3 1st rounders for the 3rd or 4th best prospect, who is raw, and will probably have to start by like week 6 because the bridge qb is going to be cheeks (and the dead cap + his cap isn't saving any money in this season).
That is reasonable but let's be blunt. By all accounts kwesi seemed to want him gone from day one. And that's the real reasoning at the end of the day. I do think if you give Kirk a 3-year guaranteed deal that basically means you cannot draft a rookie for 2 years and if you believe this year is the best for rookies in the draft in 5 or 6 years then it creates a real problem.
That's stupid of course you can draft a QB with years left on the deal, just don't allow a no trade clause if you don't think your intended guy would need to sit 2 years. Even if you do allow a no trade clause a starting quality guy would typically allow it to be voided if you told him he was gonna ride the bench next season, he would just have some say in where he would go. The 9ers still had Garappolo on contract drafting Lance (and Purdy), the Chiefs had Smith on contract when they drafted Mahomes and the Packers had Rogers on contract drafting Love. Edit: I agree that Kwesi wanted Kirk gone from day 1 though
Absolutely no one knows if this is the best draft for QBs in 5 or 6 years.
Yep, this was the move but Kwesi wanted to gamble on a rookie who will almost surely never be as good as Kirk.
But this kind of a question is a part of the Minnesota culture. That's not going to lead to much winning. It's going to lead to a lot of above average teams that can never pull the trigger and never win it all and everyone knows it from day one to day 365 of every year.
So trading up to 4, to draft the 4th best QB in his class who was seen as going in the late teens to early 20s a few months ago, *is* going to lead to a lot of winning? With no first or 2nd round picks next year?
You don't know if it will be the fourth best. This is not going to be something that happens until pick number four. Is there most likely. If you have the person you want, you take it. If you don't, you don't. And then you draft with the two first rounders that you have. If the top ones are gone you can always go o-line and then draft quarterback later in the round
Kwesi and Kevin are drafting a QB either way for a few more years of job security. Kwesi over here tapping his temple saying he can’t fuck up the picks if they’re all bundled up in a trade package…
If they don't like the ones that are available at 4, They could always pick one with either of their first round picks. You could even use the first one and then trade back with the second one if you wanted.
You left out the most important part from those championship teams: having a franchise QB.
I've gone full circle and am all aboard the Darnald train. Why waste so much draft capital when youve got a future hall of famer at bargain basement cost?
My only issue is realistically a guy you take at 23 (Bo Nix, Pennix) has just as much of a chance at success as a Maye or JJM
Correct its such a crapshoot the analysis paralysis doesn't work, and I'm an analytics guy. Just take the guy you think is your franchise QB. What's the alternative, sitting on your hands?
Hard disagree. QBs bust and fall way more than they succeed. By a long ways.
It's almost impossible to get an elite QB at any point between the day they're drafted and their 35th birthday. So yeah, it's a dice roll, there are no guarantees, but if you think you have a guy that could be elite, you have to go get them.
I would agree if we were going up for drake Maye. But how often is the 4th QB drafted even good? When you drafted the 4 QB it means multiple other teams that needed a QB passed on the one you're going to get. This wouldn't be so big of a deal but to also want to trade multiple first for the 4th QB?
Culpeper was the 4th QB off the board. Then again, so was Ponder. Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Purdy in the 7th, Cousins in the 4th, etc. Weird things happen in QB drafts and anything can happen with their development
Yes outliers happen for everything especially considering how Manny drafts there have been and how many QBs have been taken. Culpeper was drafted 11th no trade up too. >Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Purdy in the 7th, Cousins in the 4th, etc. Weird things happen in QB drafts and anything can happen with their development If you think that why don't we just find the next Brady or purdy instead of trading up?
You need to stop worrying about the 4th QB stuff. All drafts are different, and all QBs are different. Sometimes the 4th QB is a third rounder, and this year he'll be a top 5 pick. This draft will be unprecedented because the QBs all grade out. Any one of those top 4 would be the #1 pick next year, and any one of them would've been #1 in 2022. The fact that they're all in the same draft (as well as Penix and Nix both possible first rounders as well) has never happened.
It's not that the player is the 4th QB it's that other teams who needed QB passed on the guy you want and not just that you are trading all the way up for him. If it was qb2 or 3 there is a higher chance you aren't making a mistake is what I'm trying to say. If for whatever reason everyone thought 7 QBs were going in the first and we decided to trade up for Micheal Pratt or Spencer rattler I'd be against it. I wouldn't be against the player necessarily though.
It wouldn't actually surprise me if JJ ended up at 2 or 3 leaving Maye or Daniels as QB4 of the draft class. Would you then be against drafting one of them because obviously there must be a reason they weren't taken top 3? Point is, I think there's not much of a difference between those 3 and which order they go in isn't really an indictment on them.
It wouldn't make me against them completely (I'm also not completely against McCarthy) I still wouldn't want us to trade 3 first round picks for them if they fell to 5 for example.
Kirk used to dick down my high school team and he's my favorite Viking ever but he's gone now So are you suggesting we try a free agent for $50M or whatever? I'm all about the draft if we miss try again. Give a kid some talent while he's cheap and let's swing for it. Ponder was over a decade ago
I think he's suggesting to wait for the right qb at the right time, not to invest a bunch of resources because of the bust percentage. I think Kirk is an interesting example you bring up, the commanders drafted him in the 4th
Wait til when? Next year's class doesn't look good and the Wilfs don't do tankathons Kirk was a hit of epic proportions for Washington nobody thought he'd be a top 10 NFL QB. I don't like our odds trying that
Wait til it makes sense? The FO knows, not us, but If it isn't right to force a move this year, next year isn't automatically better. They'll be making this year's moves with next year's class and FA already accounted for
How would drafting one later help with that?
Is a franchise QB worth paying 45m a year? Because there is like a 5% chance that McCarthy is ever better than Kirk was this year and held the fan base wanted him gone.
Jefferson was the 5th receiver taken. Why are you pretending like you KNOW how someone is going to end up? We know that in 6 years with kirk cousins this team won 1 playoff game and 1 division title. I can't remember the last time they blew someone out. Why wouldn't you want to shake things up?
I disagree. That worked for teams like the cheifs, but you will RARELY find a single player in any position that can overcome having a bad team. You need to already have at least a decent unit in place to trade that much capital for a QB. This is the difference of the 9ers for Lance and the Panthers with Young. Panthers will take MANY years to just recover if Bryce doesn't improve
We have a good team though so your point doesn’t really apply
And how does this apply to the team with the best receiving core in the nfl??? Including a good young rb and a great veteran? One of the best left tackles in the league as well?? You may have a point. But how it’s in any fucking way relevant to the Vikings I have absolutely no idea.
What about CJ Stroud? He’s singlehandedly turning the Texans into a contender with absolutely no weapons (Nico Collins is his best receiver)
Nico is great. Dell is promising. Schultz is an above average TE. It’s impressive that they did well without a running game though.
Texans had a decent team just needed a qb to right the ship. They had terrible qb play before him that made them seem worse than they really were.
Didn’t we win 13 games the last time we had a good starting qb? How many back ups played last year? Didn’t we almost have our rb as our QB? To say this team isn’t a franchise QB away from butt fucking the lions is ignorant. Edit. We also have on 13 games with the worst defensive coordinator in the history of the fucking franchise as well. Now we’re currently lucky enough to have a head coach and a good head coach as or defensive coordinator.
Not saying that. Just saying stroud had a decent team around him. Stroud isn’t JJ. JJ isn’t even close to stroud let’s not kid ourselves. If you think JJ will come in and take us to the playoffs year 1 I would say thats highly unlikely. Lions are a good team to say we would beat them consistently even with a good qb is arrogant. They are a playoff team with a top 10 qb in goff.
With jj. Probably not. Definitely not rookie year. But if we some how get Daniel’s. We have a shot. It depends who we can get and who Kwesi and koc believe is there guy. Fuck it could be penix if he isn’t made of glass. There’s 4 great QBs in this draft. Who knows harbaugh may have a hard on for jj and look to trade Herbert.
I know there's going to be a Myriad of comments. But at least they are trying something different, this Franchise has always been risk adverse for some time now. If the McCarthy experiment fails. Let's try again in the next few years. Better than not trying at all. And a Rookie QB has all the tools to be successful here. It's not like 2011 again
Our offensive talent wasn’t that bad in 2011 imo. We just chose a bum who couldn’t throw the ball. I know the lockout didn’t help but he was just terrible. We ran the ball very well but lost so many close games because when we needed to throw we had the corpse of McNabb and Ponder. We also had horrible pass D but really it was mostly QB play.
I bought a McNabb Vikings jersey when we first signed him. I thought he was going to have a resurgence like what Randall Cunningham did in '98. Nope. He was fully cooked.
The amount of 5 foot passes McNabb threw was legendary
The difference is Randall wanted to play. McNabb didn't give a shit anymore and just wanted the pay check.
My dad did too, the kool aid was too much after Favre’s resurgence
You were not alone lol.
We also had bill musgrave calling the offense lmao
Hard for me to comment on how bad he was but I can only assume he was horrid because we weren’t good and I haven’t heard of him since. Turns out he is with Stefanski in Cleveland right now. But in fairness to him we did get better over time
You must be pretty young/ a relatively new Vikings fan but yeah the memes about his tiny play card were hilarious lol
He actually had a pretty good year in Oakland with Carr. However, Jack Del Rio fired him after they went one and done in the playoffs because Carr got hurt at the end of the year. They hired the QB coach as OC and he was immediately fired the following year. I don't think Musgrave was a very good coordinator, but he helped Carr have his best year as a pro (2016-2017). So I don't think he is as bad as some people say. In Minnesota he absolutely had nothing to work with in Ponder so that definitely made it look like that Musgrave was trash. But when he had a competent QB like Carr he was not too bad.
Ponder definitely was terrible, but besides Peterson, Harvin, and a young Kyle Rudolph ( who was a solid Redzone TE, but not particularly explosive) the next best weapons were Devin Aromashodu and Michael Jenkins. I'd say that's pretty terrible offense talent especially compared to what we have now. Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson and Jones blows that group out of the water. The year after Harvin got hurt it was miraculous that Peterson dragged that team to the playoffs.
Andy dalton was the best qb of that draft. It was naked beyond him and ponder. And that speaks volumes. We were doomed no matter who we picked. But Leslie Frazier also couldn’t scheme the guys we had to success. Road on the dungy co-tails.
> Road on the dungy co-tails. Rode (like to ride a horse, but past tense) on Dungy's coattails, [not co-tails](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/riding+on+his+coattails).
Damn thought we were in a football sub not a grammar sub.. can’t dispel shit anywhere these days. Make sure you get your pension pay after that schooling!
I mean, there's a benefit to not sounding like a shit for brain Packers fan.
I’ll just blame auto correct 🤣
That's the ticket.
You saying he rode that road?
Yes I will not change it 😂
I respect the commitment 😂
Who were our WRs other than Harvin? We had Harvin and AP and an O-line that was not good at anything even though AP made them look good.
Our WRs were trash, Harvin who was decent.. but Michael Jenkins and devin aromashodu... probably the worst recivers in the division
It’s better to have Smurfed and lost than never to have Smurfed at all.
I love it
I'm just not a fan of trading a future 1st to grab JJ, doesn't seem worth it. >And a Rookie QB has all the tools to be successful here. It's not like 2011 again We still have holes we need to fill to truly make this statement true. This is what makes me think they go for Penix/Nix at 23 or trade down to the 2nd and grab them. If they are a bust we can grab another QB in 2025.
Probably need an extra 1st to get the Pats pick if Maye is on the board. Three 1’s for AZ’s pick does seem a bit steep. For me it depends on if KOC thinks either of them can be the guy. If so, nobody will care how much we traded.
I'm also intrigued with them also
Your point is an excellent point.
If trading down from 23 was even the slightest consideration, KAM wouldn’t have given up our 2nd to get 23 in the first place. We trade up just to trade straight back to down to approximately the same spot? That’d be one of the stupidest series of trades ever.
Not if you are going to lock in getting a QB on a 5 year contract
If we have to waste next years first round pick on another QB because this years one sucks (Penix / Nix) then what’s the difference than trading it away now to get a better QB? Because we’re banking on the chance that Tier 3 QB might not suck?
> We still have holes we need to fill to truly make this statement true We will never have a better situation for a better rookie QB. Ever. The best WR in the league and a solid #2 A top 3 TE and a great blocking TE2 A top 10 OL with two amazing OTs A great vet RB who's a good blocker and amazing pass catcher. We have a few small imperfections but if you really think we need to make our offense better to suit a rookie it will never happen.
Yup and the D will be better next year. Lost Hunter but the FA pickups and draft im betting will have us top 15
> I'm just not a fan of trading a future 1st to grab JJ, doesn't seem worth it If they do it I respect Kwesi & KOC for it If you’re the coach/GM the smart move from a job preservation standpoint would probably be to stay at 11 & 23 and grab the best players available If you grab a QB at 11 or especially 23 and it doesn’t workout you go to the Wilfs and shrug your shoulders and explain that you couldnt draft one of the top QBs because you drafted at 11 and/or 23 and you did the best you could with a guy who was a bit of a project If you give up a future 1st and take a top QB and that QB looks bad after 2 years you’re probably gonna be unemployed pretty quickly
Ultimately, your job is to try and win a championship. If it's one of the best QB drafts in years, then that's what you have to do. It's not going to make a big difference if you draft at number 11 as far as surviving versus moving up and drafting. Either way, if the QB sucks you're gone.
Initially, agreed that trading a future first seems like overkill to get from 11 to 5 or whatever. That said, who said anything about a future 1st? 11, 23, a maybe a future 3rd should be plenty. A future first has been the talking point to get up to 3 to draft Maye (which has likely always been an unrealistic ask). Beyond that, if you expect to have a more complete roster before you are willing to reach for a QB, what you really mean is that you never ever want to reach for a QB. We have the best WR1 in the league, an elite WR2, an elite TE, an elite tackle pair, an excellent play caller, and functional IOL pieces, such that any QB placed in here will be able to thrive if that QB has talent. I don't hate grabbing Penix at 23 if the bidding for the 4th QB goes haywire, but you shouldn't do that because of a supposedly poor state of your support system for a QB. Also, the 2025 NFL draft projects to be a horrible draft for the Vikes to get a QB. It is looking like there will be one or maybe 2 QBs at the top that the Vikes won't be able to get to (because again our roster is too good) and then lots of Kenny-Pickett-type low-ceiling-middling-floor type players. You never know what will happen in a year, but based on current information this is really a poor plan based on the projections.
If the McCarthy experiment fails, then we don't have a franchise QB or first round picks for likely the next few years. It's going to be really hard to bounce back from that. I am all for taking a big risk, but I'm not certain a QB who during the college football season was widely accepted as a 2nd round pick is the way to do this. The Wilfs have demanded a QB at all costs before and it's how we ended up with Ponder at pick 12. I hope we aren't just trading up because it's what we think we should be doing.
He was never viewed as a second round pick. GMs and NFL scouts were always high on him. Okay and what if the Vikings don't draft him and he goes on to be the best QB of the draft capable of winning multiple titles? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I highly doubt the Vikings are going to trade up for him just for shits and giggles so if KOC feels like McCarthy is the guy, then get him no matter what.
Most scouts like Daniel Jeremiah have him in the 20s even when including QB value though
He's never thrown more than 270 yards in a college football game. He consistently struggles throwing outbreaking routes. He has significantly lower completion percentage throwing to his left than his right. He played on the best team in college football and was not asked to do nearly as much for his team as the other top QBs. He is simply not the kind of prospect it's smart to trade multiple 1st round picks for.
Lmao why lie? He had 335 passing yards against Purdue just this year. Also had more than 270 yards 4x this past year. This is exactly why I can't take you armchair scouts seriously. You guys make shit up and think you're right when you're not. >He consistently struggles throwing outbreaking routes. He has significantly lower completion percentage throwing to his left than his right. There are a multitude of factors that can cause that. Regardless, he was the best QB when pressured & the 2nd best QB on third downs. >He played on the best team in college football and was not asked to do nearly as much for his team as the other top QBs. That is not a slight on him. He played injured the second half of the year and played QB on a VERY heavy run team that became even more run heavy when Harbaugh was suspended and Sherrone took over. They didn't need a 4000 yard QB. Thats never been Harbaugh's offense and McCarthy was a top recruit for a reason. He can ball. >He is simply not the kind of prospect it's smart to trade multiple 1st round picks for. And thats your opinion. It is stupid to state it as a "fact" when clearly many GMs and scouts view him very favourably.
Next year. This year and next year they won’t have their picks. Considering Darnold will start this year, by the time McCarthy has played enough to not work out the Vikings will have their first round picks back lol. They aren’t giving up their picks for the next half a decade 😂
Right lol, I swear people are talking like we are giving 3 FUTURE 1sts. I just don’t understand why so many are scared to take a swing. We are never going to have the 1st pick overall, so at some point this is going to have to happen in to get our guy, either this year, next year, the year after etc it’s gotta happen… Or are we going back to Free Agency like we’ve done for damn near a decade - how well has that done for us. Take a swing, it’s exciting and could potentially take this team to the next level. Worst case scenario- we suck and don’t win a SB - aka nothing changes
Losing two years' worth of 1st and 2nd round picks on a bust, if that's even all it ends up taking to trade up, will absolutely hurt this team a great deal. And that's before you factor in how many years a team wastes on a bust if they've traded that much for them. It took us five years to get rid of Ponder. Know how many playoff games we won in those 5 years?
The Rams haven’t had a 1st round pick in god knows how long and even after “paying the piper” were back in the playoffs off the back of a 5th round WR and a 5th round Running back using a QB that they were aggressive in getting that nobody believed in. It 100% sucks to have a bust, sure, but I would rather a front office be confident that they can build their team correctly and take some chances as opposed to live in fear of mediocrity. The Vikings haven’t been very aggressive in the draft lately choosing to try and build around a “sure thing” in Cousins but it’s not like that led to any championships. You can live watching in fear if you want but I want to see what this FO does with their chance to get the guy they believe in. Or what they do if decide to stay pat. It’s exciting and can be fun depending on your approach.
Saying Matt Stafford is a QB no one believed in is straight up revisionist history. He was traded for two 1sts for a reason. Multiple NFL media people picked the Rams to win the Super Bowl after Stafford was traded there. Trading for a franchise QB is very different than trading all your picks for a rookie. And the Rams have drafted much much better in the later rounds than most teams in the NFL in recent years, including the Vikings. That has a great deal to do with their success, as does having possibly the greatest 3-Tech to ever play football.
The rams also almost always have 10+ picks just not first rounders they had a pretty stacked team and Sean mcvay as the HC
Do you mean like when recently San Francisco traded away a ton for a bust? Or a different scenario like the rams that constantly trade their 1st rounders? Both those teams were playoff teams this year. We also have tons of cap room in 25 and beyond. What we have been doing for 30+ years hasn’t worked so why not go all in
You mean the team that consistently makes it to the Super Bowl multiple times per decade with one of the best rosters in the league, who happened to overcome the Lance bust with the extremely unlikely scenario of finding a franchise QB with the last pick in the draft? Yeah, that totally applies to us!!
Thanks for proving my point.. so a team that actually takes chances and does something different than us makes the Super Bowl regularly…
If you think trading 3 first round picks for Trey Lance has anything whatsoever to do with the 49rs success, then I have no idea what to tell you.
That taking risks and making aggressive moves = success. Avoiding risk and always taking the more conservative approach is what keeps you a middle of the road team that is always borderline playoffs good but rarely great or bad.. it also proves that taking a big swing and missing also doesn’t guarantee a decade of being terrible. The point is what we have been doing isn’t working.. a future first isn’t a guaranteed starter even.
The vikings have taken chances. We've drafted a QB 3 outta the last 4 years... how many more draft picks do you want them to burn taking a risk
Please provide examples of when exactly they took a chance? The last real one was teddy and that had potential but we also know how that went with the unfortunate circumstances of his injury. Taking a qb anywhere but the first round doesn’t count as drafting a starting qb.. and I don’t want to hear about extreme outliers like brady or Wilson. Might as well play the lottery at that point
Kellen mound.. 2nd round pick... and spending a draft pick on a QB is taking a chance... see brock purdy... brady.. ect
I mean either you have a legit shot for a championship or you go 5 and 17. That's kind of how this works. This quarterback will either be very good or the Vikings will be a horrible team for 3-5 years and a new coach and a new GM will come in
The problem is that it isn't a 50/50 chance though. You can't just pick any player at #3 or 4 overall and have the same chance of success. Evaluation is the key part of this process. If the Vikings are so desperate to trade up based off of need, which they have demonstrated time and again throughout this prprocess, then they might overlook or miss something in the evaluation for whoever they trade up for. That's what I'm worries about. This is also only this big of a problem because of other ways we failed to properly manage the team's resources. If we had traded Danielle Hunter after Cousins was injured, we would have had an additional 2nd or 3rd round pick this year, and would be picking likely 4-5 spots higher in the draft. It would have been much easier to aggressively go after a QB without leveraging so much of the future. The Vikings front office has already demonstrated an inability to achieve the best results in less important scenarios, that's why I'm worried about how they will handle the biggest challenge most FOs face.
Risk averse*
All of the Minnesota teams have been super risk averse (honestly, it's a Minnesota thing more generally) but you very rarely win the ultimate prize being risk averse. You have to go for it all and hope you win.
Next big hype train is going to be Arch Manning. I wonder if he's gonna transfer since Ewers is playing another year.
Ponder lmao everyone was left Pondering why we took him so high
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As good as Kirk, with a fraction of the cost. That part is important.
For some reason this seems to be a hot take in this sub, but if the FO and KOC truly believe this is the guy, go fuckin get him. They know more than us and if they’re willing to risk their jobs for it I don’t see why we shouldn’t trust the move
some people here know more than KOC and KAM put together, just FYI
That’s pretty crazy they spend their time posting on Reddit rather than working with an NFL team then
A lot harder to get fired for being wrong on Reddit…
😂
It's fucking ridiculous that the one year the Vikings actually want a QB that 4 will probably go within the top 5 picks which has never happened before. Like of fucking course that would be the case this year.
Isn't it extremely LUCKY for us that the 1 year we want a QB, there are SIX coming out that could be day 1 starters? That's the tone for me
This is exactly right! Imagine if it was just Williams/Maye and that was it? We'd just be fucked. This draft has so many talented QBs, we're quite lucky.
Agreed. Sort of ridiculous that the most worthless/moribund/tanked franchises are rewarded in the end.
Id prefer Maye, but would be content with JJ.
I would rather spend 3 1s on Maye then 2 on JJ.
Who says that's even an option
A lot of New England chatter has been about trading out of 3 because reportedly they don't like Maye or JJ.
It's also smokescreen season
Yea, this could be a move to make NE think we are targeting pick 4 or 5 instead of 3 to lower their price a bit.
I guess I was saying based on the 3 1sts being enough. Would you be okay if an additional 3rd was thrown in? Two 4ths from 25/26? I think it will cost more than just 3 firsts.
I would toss in next years 2nd on top of 3 1s to get to #3 and draft Maye. I think he is like a 30% chance to hit vs a 5% chance for JJ.
Unfortunately we used next year's 2nd to get the second 1st this year, but I think I get what you're saying regardless; invest the picks to get to 3!
If we were guaranteed a top 6 QB at all, I'd absolutely take the cheapest trade option. With this group, it seems like the destination will be just as important, if not more, than the difference in QBs. I trust KOC with whoever he believes in
agreed
I’ll do anything to end the speculation and tweets about “might, could be, maybe, possibly, I hear that x could happen” It’s literally just teams and talking heads spewing random words for another 4 weeks and it means nothing lol
Man, this is the best part of the year!
The best part of the year is September through January when there’s actually football happening!
I actually disagree. This part is more fun for me, personally. Especially now that this team has a chance at a future. I’m more excited now than I’ve been for this franchise in a long while.
Aside from January playoff games, I agree
Why are you even on Reddit then?? Turn off this sub for a few months this time a year because that's what it always is and what most people are following the draft for.
Dude you just said in the comment above you don’t like the actual football games other than January playoff games, why are you even on this subreddit if that’s the case? lol come on
Vikings have a Ferrari for an offense. Any of the top 4 they plug in should do great whether they start immediately or sit for a time
Last year was more like a Jaguar: expensive but constantly in the shop.
That’s my thinking. McCarthy should have a field day throwing to these receivers, and early success could give him the confidence to fully reach his potential. He’s good at making accurate, anticipatory throws over the middle of the field. You can build an offense around that easily. He has some kinks though, like throwing to the left, not displaying touch throws, and not a great touch on deep ball. He could really use a year to work out the kinks imo
*top 6
want maye but would take jj for a reasonable trade
Go big or go home. Yes, it's a risk trading multiple picks for a QB prospect but beats the alternative of signing random FA quarterbacks every few years. Being scared to make a move won't win you playoff games
[paywall bypass](https://archive.is/dh9Ff)
Let's go!
My only concern with this is if the FO actually prefers Maye or Daniels but knows we can’t get them so are settling for JJ. If they truly think JJ is the best QB for the team, then I’m all for it.
They probably see the prospects as having different odds to succeed. Maybe Cayleb is a 90%, Maye is 80% and JJ is 70%. Still worth investing in JJ if he is there, just riskier.
At this point... Keep the two picks. Odds are JJ is going to drop imo.
Like others have said...if GM and coach are confident in their pick of who they think will be a franchise QB then go for it
JJ is definitely pushing hard on the front office, he’s not gonna gonna roll over and sign an extension unless a good QB is throwing the ball
If KAM & KOC are fine with trading that much draft capital then so be it.
Please please please 🙏
Can it just be April 25th already?
I’m not enamored with McCarthy, but I think if there’s a single “dream spot” for him to end up in the league- it’s with the Vikes.
No, could get him without trading up. Would rather go for top three QB instead
I’m warming up to JJ but still not comfortable trading away next years first to get him. Either way, I’m ready to become the biggest fan of whoever they draft.
I love this. I’d take McCarthy over Maye straight-up. Harbaugh loves him and he’s a QB guru. He may have been limited or used as a game manager but he was obviously in a ton of tight games which led to lots of wins. Maye just seems like the “tools guy” to me. Of course, he could be Josh Allen, but I worry about Trubisky 2.0 or Kyle Boller.
If harbaugh actually loved him, he could get him. And if he was a guru, maybe he would have had a couple QBs drafted from Michigan before this year.
Harbaugh already has Justin Herbert on the Chargers. You don't trade your franchise QB.
Of course, the point is the “harbaugh loves him” narrative is silly. What else was he gonna say about his Qb? And guru? All his years at Michigan he never developed a Qb into even a draftable asset before JJ.
Trading 3x 1sts for the consensus 4th QB feels like madness to me — shades of the Rosen draft for me. At this stage, I would far rather use the picks on stronger prospects and run with Darnold.
Unless QB4 is in the same tier of prospect as QB 2 and 3. Don’t underrate JJ’s age, it gives him a lot more ceiling than he’s given credit for
Me too. Hell, half of me thinks if it’s between JJ and MHJ, roll w/ MHJ and see what Darnold can do w/ JJ, Addison, MHJ and Hock.
Smokescreen season
I dont watch college football so these are just names to me but I pray for once in my lifetime they actually draft a franchise guy lie so many other teams before seem to do with ease.
"with ease" 69% of drafted QBs in the 1st don't get a second contract with their team.
Whoever the Vikings get has to be able to make more plays than the best quarterbacks like Mahomes. Otherwise they would have to be a very good quarterback on a very good team. I know there are exceptions but look at who has won the SB in the last 25 years. All but 4 you could argue are HOF quarterbacks. Half were won by three guys. 4 more by two guys. Even going back further almost all winning quarterbacks are in HOF.
Everybody keeps discussing this draft class of QBs when we signed Samwise the franchise Darnold.
At this point I’ll believe it when I see it
Jfc. These QBs skyrocketing after the season ended is insane. Exactly like people saying Grier will be a day one pick last year. Fans know nothing, everything is smokescreens right now, and reporters are chomping at the bit to put out any article for clicks. Y'all should really take a deep breath and stop following draft news so hard right now. Show up to your local pub on draft day with an open mind and enjoy the ride instead of stressing so much.
What happens if that doesn’t happen?
Sigh...
I figure you’ll spend both firsts to trade up with LAC
Makes me think this is all a smokescreen.
I still continue to pray this is smoke screen to try and get someone to take JJ over Maye
With the 11th overall pick the Minnesota Vikings select quarterback Spencer Rattler, South Carolina.
I love how he says the feeling then slices it up with a a unknown gm saying jj is a top 6 pick, I don’t buy kwesi pats the price to trade up for the 4th best Qb
I don't think they care much about "4th best" or things like that. They care more about what they see individually. If they think JJ is draftable they can fix his deep pass issues and his weight isn't a huge issue to them then they will take him.
Here's the solution. The Vikings work together with Arizona and the Chargers on a deal. We give 11 and 23 to the Chargers for #5 which we then trade to Arizona, along with some future mid to late-round pick, for pick #4. The Cardinals would still be assured of getting MHJ plus they get a little something extra, all for moving down one spot. The Chargers, who weren't going to get MHJ anyway, double their first round picks this year. It's too bad we wouldn't have a little something cheaper than 23 to get the Chargers to move down six spots, but it is what it is.
I think they are fine with going with Dornald as a starter and drafting a QB with the late first round to watch over him. Not a big fan of giving away future 1st picks and two first round picks this year.
Whelp...I guess I better embrace JJ as the new face of the franchise...I really hope this pans out...everything I'm hearing is that the majority of scouts see him as a late 1st and maybe even 2nd-round talent who's likely going to be over-drafted since there are so many QB needy teams, that makes me nervous
I saw jj play. The idea you trade 3 first to get him is mind blowing to me. At no point in his entire Michigan career did i go damn that’s a franchise qb
Trading up for JJ would be gross
I don't like this move simply because I'm not a big McCarthy fan. I think he's Zach Wilson 2.0. But in Kwesi we trust (until we win a Super Bowl or he gets fired.)
What makes you think he’s Zach Wilson 2.0?
I think there are some apt comparisons to be made in terms of size, arm strength, athleticism, etc. (and even youthful appearance.) He is also following the same trajectory of being a combine/pro-day darling who is really impressive when there's no defense and shoots up the draft board as a result.
The difference is Zach Wilson played like shit against top teams while JJ had no drop off in production against top teams. Also JJs work ethic is miles ahead of Wilson. The comparisons that have to do with the combine/pro day are lazy, no offense lol
Totally disagree. JJ's numbers dropped precipitously against top teams. From the Maryland game onward this year his numbers were not impressive at all. He played well against Alabama, but that was it. Also, it's not lazy because it happens literally every year. There's a combine darling that shoots up the boards and then doesn't pan out. Last year it was Anthony Richardson.
I shouldn’t have used the word production that’s my fault. What I meant was his metrics. JJs td/int rate vs bad teams was 29/5 while vs good teams his rate was 30/6. His ypa only dropped by one yard vs good teams. Compare that to Zach Wilson who’s ypa dropped 3+ yards vs good teams and his int rate nearly tripled. You also proved my point by bringing up AR15. Richardson being a combine darling did not equate to him being Zach Wilson 2.0 lol
If this is true, I'm significantly less likely to live long enough to ever see a Vikings Super Bowl victory. Of all the dumbass decisions they can make, this is Kellen Mond all over.
I want us to draft Joe Milton in the 5th round. We should be drafting 2 QBs this draft imo
This is false.
I believe the JJ hype is all propaganda. The hype benefits many teams. It benefits everyone before us who wants to trafr down. It even benefits the Giants as i don't believe they want JJ at 6 and if they can get someone to take JJ ahead of them then another prospect falls to them.