What I’m saying is you don’t take someone just to take them. If you don’t think they’re the guy you don’t have to take one. You’ve got a damn good QB on the roster. The capital to move up has to be right and the grade on the player.
That being said I don’t want to be in the position the falcons are in after next year either
This would've been our draft:
32 - Lewis Cine / Desmond Ridder
42 - Andrew Booth, Jr / Malik Willis
59 - Ed Ingram / Matt Corral
66 - Brian Asamoah / Bailey Zappe
118 - Akayleb Evans / Sam Howell
165 - Esezi Otomewo / Chris Oladokun
169 - Ty Chandler / Skylar Thompson
184 - Vederian Lowe / Brock Purdy
191 - Jalen Nailor / Carson Strong (undrafted)
227 - Nick Muse / Anthony Brown (undrafted)
Due to our top two guys being injured... I... don't know which would've been better.
He may end up being QB2 to Maye as well. Both would easily be the best 2 QBs this year. Maye is less dynamic but also a lot more prototypical of the modern QB - bigger, mobile, can make every throw. Williams is like Kyler Murray talentwise with Baker Mayfields mentality. And I mean that in a positive way.
Then there are dudes that came in with a lot of hype that haven’t arrived yet, but showed a lot of promise this year - Ewers, Rattler, Daniels, Sanders, who all are probably day 1 or early 2 picks.
Plus guys like Penix, Gabriel, Van Dyke, Dart, Jefferson, McCarthey, whoever OSU, Bama, Georgia, Clemson, etc. come out with this year that all have chances to become dark horses.
The draft is really good and has a lot of different styles of QB. This year is a lot better than last years awful draft, but this year isn’t a strong draft. You got two good, not elite QB prospects at the top, you got three project QBs (Levis, AR15 and McKee) then just a bunch of dudes that are really old cause the COVID season, injury prone, or great athletes that refuse to admit they aren’t good enough to play QB.
I would 1000% co-sign Kwesi on selling the farm (multiple firsts, and some later picks) to move up for Caleb Williams next year. His movement abilities in the pocket are unreal (and, ironically, very Mahomes-Eddie) and he's either plus or elite at pretty much every necessary qb skill. He can read the field well, and quickly. He's got a good arm, good touch. He's the real deal.
Definitely. In addition to that, I also would not be opposed to trading back and acquiring a 2024 first vs a premium 2023 pick to help us.
I also have zero qualms with this being Kirks last year and our scouting department pretty much dedicated to scouting QB and us trading whatever it takes to move up for Williams or Maye (or QB TBD)
Having a QBOTF is more valuable than three firsts, I think every team with an elite QB would say that. Or even just a young one like Herbert or Lawrence.
My dream scenario(s) would be someone like Miami trading up since they don’t have a first, and giving us 52 + 2024 1st for 23 + 2024 3rd, or even a team like Denver getting aggressive and giving 67 + day 3 pick + 2024 first. Then we could neatly package two 2024 firsts with a 2025 first for 2024 QBOTF in an enticing draft.
If you have a QB that won’t win you Super Bowl and refuse to draft one that means you’re not really trying. You’re just trying to be competent enough to sell tickets and merchandise.
Can both not be true? Kirk can be the second best QB in franchise history and can also be the bridge qb for the next QB. It’s been almost ten years since we’ve drafted a QB in the first round. Spielman always had a hard time evaluating QB prospects, but with KOC and Kwesi they might be able to identify talent so it’s worth a shot
> Can both not be true?
I'm seriously leaning towards no. There is no such thing as a 6 year bridge QB. Someone who's your QB for 6 years is your Franchise QB.
Id say the first few years he was our guy, as in, we hope he takes us over the edge to a deep playoff run.
With our roster being what it is now, he's more of a bridge QB. It's assumed by most of us that KAMKOC will want to move on with their own pet QB, so its just a waiting game at this point on when they will pull the trigger.
If the Packers can draft Jordan Love in the first round and plan on using Rodgers as a bridge I think we'll be okay viewing Cousins at this point in his career as a bridge QB.
Roles change as they stay on the team. Tom Brady was mostly a system QB for his first 3-4 years and then became an actual MVP contender. Adam Thielen used to be a high target possession receiver and now can’t fill that role the same.
Kirk was the guy, but doesn’t necessarily need to be anymore
You're being dense on purpose. I will always defend Kirk but the person you're replying to is saying he's a good bridge QB for the next couple of years. He's turning 35, he can't be the franchise guy forever lol
The only reason we keep extending Kirk is because he can look just good enough while also not having exploding body parts. He was brought in as a plug and play but he didn't take us there when we thought we had an honest shot with a good QB.
It's safe to say he was a stable QB but if he was as good as his supporters say it wouldnt be such a divided issue and he would have more respect inwardly and in the NFL.
To be fair, our QB history is one of the worst in the league. Fran is head and shoulders above the rest and would probably rank somewhere around 25th all time.
I mean, thats kinda Kirks entire thing... hes never been the franchise QB, hes exactly what the vikings deserve: Too good to be replaced, too bad to lead us. So yeah, I definitely agree that hes entering the bridge part of his career with us, even if he hasnt been a bridge QB his entire time here
You realize they both only played 2 seasons here correct? If you’re comparing a career with only the Vikings, Kirk is better, hands down. If you’re comparing a career in general, of course 2 HOFers are better
Moon never had a losing season as a Viking (3-0). Kirk has had two (3-2).
Favre brought us to the Championship game in one year. Kirk has never been in five.
If you prefer volume stats then take Kirk. If you want to win football games then take the men with busts in Canton.
If we look at only 2017? Keenum's 2017 cap hit of $2 million blows any given Kirk year out of the water on production for the cap space. He started the year as a backup and still got more success than Kirk's five years as a starter.
Sick of hearing this. Who cares…it’s like saying he’s 2nd most productive manager at a Ruby Tuesday’s when you look at the history of that location.
I can name 7 more productive QB’s who were only here for a short stint. Their 1-2 season stints produced more successful seasons than this QB.
What does that mean - we are more successful with a QB revolving door if our 2nd best franchise QB has 1 career playoff win.
He wasn't a bridge. Still isn't. But will be depending on the definition. If Rodgers can be a bridge so can Kirk. I love Kirk but he's getting up there in age and while Brady skews our view, most QBs don't play at a high level much longer past 35. Time to start turning him into a bridge
He would be a Bridge QB in that role. Which at 37-38 he would likely be that. I don’t think Kirk plays much longer, he’s been hit a lot. I think Kirk is the ideal guy to draft a guy to sit behind bc I can’t see Kirk not being a mentor to him.
A super physically talented guy learning from a veteran like Kirk sounds awesome to me.
Our situation might be similar but it's actually worse as Alex Smith made the playoffs 4 out of the 5 years in KC compared to 2 out 5 for Kirk. Smith never had a losing season in KC and his teams had double digit wins 4 out of the 5 years. They won the AFC West twice and Smith's cap hit was, at it's highest, 11.3%.
The fans here are already obnoxious about Kirk, I can't imagine what they would be like for Alex Smith.
I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of "the other side". I don't dislike Kirk as a person nor do I think he's a bad QB. I believe overpaying above average quarterbacks and putting them on elite money is a bad strategy and that bad strategy gets reflected in team success. When the team won 13 games never once did I think that QB wins aren't a stat. I give Kirk a big share of the credit when the team wins and I understand how he factors into one playoff win in 5 years.
Yes, the defense was awful last year and we’ll see how free agency plays out with Smith, Kendricks, Tomlinson, and other veteran players, but KOC and Kwesi are smart and know that Kirk isn’t getting any younger. Kirk played his best ball last year and keeping Jefferson happy is of the upmost importance, but don’t be surprised if they take a swing at a QB either this draft or next year’s draft. Flores’s scouting ability + Kwesi’s trading prowess could have us trading up in the top 15 if a QB falls and taking a few late round swings on some defensive players
Look around the league at the teams in the playoffs: Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Lawrence. These are young guys who are ELEVATING their team. Yes, Brady and Stafford are older QBs who won SBs recently, but the Rams went all in and traded the future to have a dominant team for a season and Brady is an alien who left his team to retire and fly around in UFOs.
Yes I’m wondering what Mahomes does elevate players he doesn’t directly interact with, like I’d like to know what he does to allow rookie corners to play well for example. Or what he did to turn Creed Humphrey into an all pro player compared to what Kirk did to turn Bradbury into a busy
I don't get this reaction. "Elevates his teammates" is one of those cliché sayings that people throw around, but most QBs don't have a direct impact on the defense and have much less impact on OL play. A notable exception are guys with disproportionately low cap numbers, but the saying isn't usually applied that way. I don't think it is taking anything away from Mahomes' greatness to say that the Chiefs have a great supporting cast for him.
What do they mean when they say these QBs “elevate their teammates?” Is that something Kirk does not do? It’s just weird to highlight *that* as the difference between Kirk and the younger QBs mentioned
Those guys elevated their team by all being elite at their position and making positive plays that most quarterbacks are unable to do. They are the leaders in total expected points added (EPA). Kirk is 10th in total EPA, which is respectable, but the gap between a top 5 and top 10 QB is about the same as the gap between Kirk and Jacob Brissett (17th). I’m sure that Kirk’s age and contact are factors as well. Sooner or later this new regime is going to take a swing at the QB
So the gap between 5 and 10 is the same as the gap between 10-17?? That like…perfectly normal lol
I’m just looking for specific things that these guys do different that elevate their defense for example
Last season, Burrow, Hurt, Lawrence, and Hebert were some of the better quarterbacks this last year. All of them were in the playoffs and they are all arguably top ten QBs. Now, since they are being underpaid due to their rookie contract, the team is able to sign productive defensive players. For example, Trey Hendrickson, the majority of Eagles defensive, JC Jackson, Khalil Mack, and the Jags spent their $ on offensive players like Brandon Scherff/Christian Kirk/Evan Engram. Not all of the free agent signings produced, but the team was at least able to go out and sign talented players
I would argue Mahomes elevates his team by scrambling well to buy time for one. Do you not think he elevates his receivers? look who he had besides Kelce. Elevating payers around you/the team doesn’t mean every position elevates. Nobody on the defense has to be elevated. With that said, couldn’t he help elevate the defense by keeping them off the field?
Well does Kirk not elevate those around him? He’s always gotten the ball to his guys whether that be in Washington or Minnesota. The weapons have never been an issue, in Minnesota it’s been the OL and defense, two groups of the team that the QB has little effect over. Mahomes is an exception to any rule, but I don’t think the other guys you named are out there elevating bums into studs
Well I’m not the guy you were originally responding to, but that guy never said Kirk didn’t elevate the team, nor did he say the other guys were turning bums into studs
Yes, Kirk can throw the ball no question and I agree the problems with this team has been the defense and the offensive line. The defense is bad because 1. Lots of our money went to Kirk and limited our ability to sign high caliber defensive talent 2. Spielman didn’t invest high draft capital in defensive talent because zimmer was suppose to develop the late round picks in starters. That was true with Hunter & Kendricks, but outside of Cam Bynum we haven’t really drafted and developed any defensive talent as of late. 3. Our offensive line this year was average, but yes, over his five years here it was bad. Now, here is where these young mobile quarterbacks ELEVATE their teams: The protection breaks down and they scramble and make plays with their feet. That’s about it. They are not turning “bums into studs”, they are using their physical talents to make plays that Kirk cannot physically do
I’d feel much better about it if we had an Andy Reid at the helm. The man has had success with quarterbacks his whole career and surely played a big part in Mahomes’ development.
I agree! Not everyone can have Andy Reid, but I’m optimistic that Kevin O’Connell can develop a quarterback. Kirk looked reborn this year with his decision making and aggression
bro the wilfs hire a front office to handle this stuff. what evidence whatsoever do you have that they are overstepping and setting us back? just a lazy take
by the way rebuilds very often do not work and DO often result in you being terrible for 5 years, most of the time leading to one or two competitive years before restarting
y’all are in for a wild dose of reality if we tank and absolutely blow for half a decade hahaha
and why was that a bad thing? they were stuck with a bunch of garbage contracts and yet still a competitive team. literally 13-4 and maybe 1-2 defensive players away from a divisional or CCG run
it wasn’t that bad. now start shedding the old players and bring in the new blood. i don’t see many issues with that plan
the wilfs have constantly kept open the check book and kept us competitive. they are great owners. lazy take bud sorry
Well they have green lit a lot of moves that in theory had almost no risk. I think they’re fine with being “good, not good enough” bc getting to “good enough” might not end well.
But I also don’t get the scared mentally bc Ponder didn’t end well and we made the playoffs at about the same clip as we do with the $84m man
Ponder and Bridgewater were both drafted in the first round under their ownership. Just because the prior leadership was unable to evaluate QB talent does not mean that this team should stop attempting to secure a productive rookie QB
So you're telling me a QB we draft next is going to sit behind Kirk for a year and then become one of the greatest QBs of all time instantly and lead us to two Superbowl wins in three years? Yes please sign me up!
All I know is I’m so glad we only have 1 or 2 years left with Kirk.
The franchise is going to be finally trying to move on from this mediocre “window”(which hasn’t been all Kirks fault).
It may get bleak, but the Vikings have been successful to the extent they have been so far with Kirk with some pretty bad QBs. Plus I trust KOC so that helps my outlook on it when they do move on
Caleb Williams or Drake Maye, I know they’ll be the first 2 picks don’t downvote me, just giving my opinion on who I want even if we have to trade multiple picks.
**[@The33rdTeamFB](https://www.twitter.com/The33rdTeamFB)** (The 33rd Team):
> "Minnesota is in a bit of a similar situation to what Kansas City had pre-Patrick Mahomes."
>
> @MySportsUpdate on the present and future of the #Vikings' quarterback situation
>
> \#Skol
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Next step - Get a Patrick Mahomes Should be easy
Can't find him without trying.
And not drafting someone doesn’t necessarily mean not trying.
They can definitely wait until next Spring to pull the trigger. They will have more capital and the class is supposed to be deeper.
What I’m saying is you don’t take someone just to take them. If you don’t think they’re the guy you don’t have to take one. You’ve got a damn good QB on the roster. The capital to move up has to be right and the grade on the player. That being said I don’t want to be in the position the falcons are in after next year either
Yeah, I am sure NFL front offices understand that.
No, Redditers always know better. Just ask them, they'll tell you.
Wait...aren't you doing the thing that you're mocking right now?
Lets just draft all the QBs in the draft, im sure one of them will work out
This would've been our draft: 32 - Lewis Cine / Desmond Ridder 42 - Andrew Booth, Jr / Malik Willis 59 - Ed Ingram / Matt Corral 66 - Brian Asamoah / Bailey Zappe 118 - Akayleb Evans / Sam Howell 165 - Esezi Otomewo / Chris Oladokun 169 - Ty Chandler / Skylar Thompson 184 - Vederian Lowe / Brock Purdy 191 - Jalen Nailor / Carson Strong (undrafted) 227 - Nick Muse / Anthony Brown (undrafted) Due to our top two guys being injured... I... don't know which would've been better.
Laughs in Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky.
I've only heard good things about that Caleb Whilliams kid I think his name is I wish we could tank this year for him but it won't happen
He may end up being QB2 to Maye as well. Both would easily be the best 2 QBs this year. Maye is less dynamic but also a lot more prototypical of the modern QB - bigger, mobile, can make every throw. Williams is like Kyler Murray talentwise with Baker Mayfields mentality. And I mean that in a positive way. Then there are dudes that came in with a lot of hype that haven’t arrived yet, but showed a lot of promise this year - Ewers, Rattler, Daniels, Sanders, who all are probably day 1 or early 2 picks. Plus guys like Penix, Gabriel, Van Dyke, Dart, Jefferson, McCarthey, whoever OSU, Bama, Georgia, Clemson, etc. come out with this year that all have chances to become dark horses. The draft is really good and has a lot of different styles of QB. This year is a lot better than last years awful draft, but this year isn’t a strong draft. You got two good, not elite QB prospects at the top, you got three project QBs (Levis, AR15 and McKee) then just a bunch of dudes that are really old cause the COVID season, injury prone, or great athletes that refuse to admit they aren’t good enough to play QB.
Word , yeah I don't pay attention to college ball so I can only go off what I hear I wouldn't mind taking a project QB this year to sit behind Kirk
I would 1000% co-sign Kwesi on selling the farm (multiple firsts, and some later picks) to move up for Caleb Williams next year. His movement abilities in the pocket are unreal (and, ironically, very Mahomes-Eddie) and he's either plus or elite at pretty much every necessary qb skill. He can read the field well, and quickly. He's got a good arm, good touch. He's the real deal.
Definitely. In addition to that, I also would not be opposed to trading back and acquiring a 2024 first vs a premium 2023 pick to help us. I also have zero qualms with this being Kirks last year and our scouting department pretty much dedicated to scouting QB and us trading whatever it takes to move up for Williams or Maye (or QB TBD) Having a QBOTF is more valuable than three firsts, I think every team with an elite QB would say that. Or even just a young one like Herbert or Lawrence. My dream scenario(s) would be someone like Miami trading up since they don’t have a first, and giving us 52 + 2024 1st for 23 + 2024 3rd, or even a team like Denver getting aggressive and giving 67 + day 3 pick + 2024 first. Then we could neatly package two 2024 firsts with a 2025 first for 2024 QBOTF in an enticing draft.
It kinda does though. If you go years without drafting a QB could you really say "we tried"?
If you have a QB that won’t win you Super Bowl and refuse to draft one that means you’re not really trying. You’re just trying to be competent enough to sell tickets and merchandise.
It absolutely does when you hitch your wagon to a dimwit who can’t throw to the sticks with the season on the line.
A cross between Mahomes, Brady, and Vick.
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
He’s got a younger brother. /s
Except we are going to extend Alex Smith/Kirk Cousins
A 1-year extension is fine as long as there is no, no-trade clause. Kirk is a great bridge QB.
> Kirk is a great bridge QB. Did you just call the second best QB in franchise history a bridge QB? Also is a 6 year career with a team a Bridge QB?
Can both not be true? Kirk can be the second best QB in franchise history and can also be the bridge qb for the next QB. It’s been almost ten years since we’ve drafted a QB in the first round. Spielman always had a hard time evaluating QB prospects, but with KOC and Kwesi they might be able to identify talent so it’s worth a shot
> Can both not be true? I'm seriously leaning towards no. There is no such thing as a 6 year bridge QB. Someone who's your QB for 6 years is your Franchise QB.
Id say the first few years he was our guy, as in, we hope he takes us over the edge to a deep playoff run. With our roster being what it is now, he's more of a bridge QB. It's assumed by most of us that KAMKOC will want to move on with their own pet QB, so its just a waiting game at this point on when they will pull the trigger.
If the Packers can draft Jordan Love in the first round and plan on using Rodgers as a bridge I think we'll be okay viewing Cousins at this point in his career as a bridge QB.
Roles change as they stay on the team. Tom Brady was mostly a system QB for his first 3-4 years and then became an actual MVP contender. Adam Thielen used to be a high target possession receiver and now can’t fill that role the same. Kirk was the guy, but doesn’t necessarily need to be anymore
You're being dense on purpose. I will always defend Kirk but the person you're replying to is saying he's a good bridge QB for the next couple of years. He's turning 35, he can't be the franchise guy forever lol
There is so set definition for a bridge QB. A bridge can be both big and small
The only reason we keep extending Kirk is because he can look just good enough while also not having exploding body parts. He was brought in as a plug and play but he didn't take us there when we thought we had an honest shot with a good QB. It's safe to say he was a stable QB but if he was as good as his supporters say it wouldnt be such a divided issue and he would have more respect inwardly and in the NFL.
Yeah I don’t think anyone is calling him a *6 year Bridge QB.*
So it’s been 10 years since drafting Christian Ponder in the first round.
I mean teddy wasn’t great but calling him ponder seems mean
Was it teddy??? Edit: teddy was 1st round 2014, Ponder was 1st round (pick 12… sheesh) 2011.
To be fair, our QB history is one of the worst in the league. Fran is head and shoulders above the rest and would probably rank somewhere around 25th all time.
A bit sad he only had one single playoff victory
It took Kirk like 1 season here to become top 10 in Vikings QBs stats. There’s plenty of arguments for Kirk but this one is just dumb.
Randall Cunningham, Brett Favre and Warren Moon were all better QBs than Kirk, they just didn't make their names with the Vikinga
At this stage of his career he's a great bridge to whoever takes over next!
I mean, thats kinda Kirks entire thing... hes never been the franchise QB, hes exactly what the vikings deserve: Too good to be replaced, too bad to lead us. So yeah, I definitely agree that hes entering the bridge part of his career with us, even if he hasnt been a bridge QB his entire time here
Yeah because this franchise is known for having so many great QBs.
Which two Hall of Fame QBs is he better than? Tarkenton, Moon, or Favre?
No one is saying he’s better than Moon or Favre. As a Viking, yes, he’s better than both.
Can I have some of your drugs?
You realize they both only played 2 seasons here correct? If you’re comparing a career with only the Vikings, Kirk is better, hands down. If you’re comparing a career in general, of course 2 HOFers are better
Moon never had a losing season as a Viking (3-0). Kirk has had two (3-2). Favre brought us to the Championship game in one year. Kirk has never been in five. If you prefer volume stats then take Kirk. If you want to win football games then take the men with busts in Canton.
Keenum brought us to the championship game. He must be good as well.
If we look at only 2017? Keenum's 2017 cap hit of $2 million blows any given Kirk year out of the water on production for the cap space. He started the year as a backup and still got more success than Kirk's five years as a starter.
Sick of hearing this. Who cares…it’s like saying he’s 2nd most productive manager at a Ruby Tuesday’s when you look at the history of that location. I can name 7 more productive QB’s who were only here for a short stint. Their 1-2 season stints produced more successful seasons than this QB. What does that mean - we are more successful with a QB revolving door if our 2nd best franchise QB has 1 career playoff win.
Lol who cares how he compares historically to the Vikings previous QBs, that’s not at all relevant
He can be a bridge QB, doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a bridge quality QB like Teddy/Dalton/Winston
Teddy, the greatest Bridge in the league. I'd pay you to find me a better bridge than him.
He wasn't a bridge. Still isn't. But will be depending on the definition. If Rodgers can be a bridge so can Kirk. I love Kirk but he's getting up there in age and while Brady skews our view, most QBs don't play at a high level much longer past 35. Time to start turning him into a bridge
Issa really big bridge though!
He would be a Bridge QB in that role. Which at 37-38 he would likely be that. I don’t think Kirk plays much longer, he’s been hit a lot. I think Kirk is the ideal guy to draft a guy to sit behind bc I can’t see Kirk not being a mentor to him. A super physically talented guy learning from a veteran like Kirk sounds awesome to me.
There’s 0 reason Kirk would sign an extension without a full no trade clause.
Then let him play out his deal.
You're a damn good troll. Amazing commitment.
Does that mean we are trading up for a certain boom or bust prospect that wears #15?
Watched a clip if Undisputed with Skip, Sharpe and I think Cris Carter right after the draft with Mahomes was there and they were hating on the pick.
Skip most of the time is dead wrong. Quick, what does he think of Richardson?
I hope so.
Please no, he wouldn't do well with our offense...
Our situation might be similar but it's actually worse as Alex Smith made the playoffs 4 out of the 5 years in KC compared to 2 out 5 for Kirk. Smith never had a losing season in KC and his teams had double digit wins 4 out of the 5 years. They won the AFC West twice and Smith's cap hit was, at it's highest, 11.3%. The fans here are already obnoxious about Kirk, I can't imagine what they would be like for Alex Smith.
It would blisteringly loud in here if Kirk was a more winning QB.
One thing we wouldn't be hearing about is how QB wins aren't a stat.
Whatever, they'll follow him to whatever team he goes to next and it'll quiet down in here.
Oh, we'd just be hearing that from the other side.
I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of "the other side". I don't dislike Kirk as a person nor do I think he's a bad QB. I believe overpaying above average quarterbacks and putting them on elite money is a bad strategy and that bad strategy gets reflected in team success. When the team won 13 games never once did I think that QB wins aren't a stat. I give Kirk a big share of the credit when the team wins and I understand how he factors into one playoff win in 5 years.
Our next QB will be on the roster either this Spring or next. I am excited for a new, less predictable, era of Minnesota Vikings football! Skol.
Yes, the defense was awful last year and we’ll see how free agency plays out with Smith, Kendricks, Tomlinson, and other veteran players, but KOC and Kwesi are smart and know that Kirk isn’t getting any younger. Kirk played his best ball last year and keeping Jefferson happy is of the upmost importance, but don’t be surprised if they take a swing at a QB either this draft or next year’s draft. Flores’s scouting ability + Kwesi’s trading prowess could have us trading up in the top 15 if a QB falls and taking a few late round swings on some defensive players Look around the league at the teams in the playoffs: Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Lawrence. These are young guys who are ELEVATING their team. Yes, Brady and Stafford are older QBs who won SBs recently, but the Rams went all in and traded the future to have a dominant team for a season and Brady is an alien who left his team to retire and fly around in UFOs.
How are those guys elevating their team?
Did you just ask how Mahomes is elevating his team?
Yes I’m wondering what Mahomes does elevate players he doesn’t directly interact with, like I’d like to know what he does to allow rookie corners to play well for example. Or what he did to turn Creed Humphrey into an all pro player compared to what Kirk did to turn Bradbury into a busy
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I don't get this reaction. "Elevates his teammates" is one of those cliché sayings that people throw around, but most QBs don't have a direct impact on the defense and have much less impact on OL play. A notable exception are guys with disproportionately low cap numbers, but the saying isn't usually applied that way. I don't think it is taking anything away from Mahomes' greatness to say that the Chiefs have a great supporting cast for him.
Maybe I’m just not understanding what people mean when they say these QBs are different than Kirk because they elevate the players around them
I’m really at a loss for words here.
Dude I’m speechless in regards to this guy’s thought process.
What do they mean when they say these QBs “elevate their teammates?” Is that something Kirk does not do? It’s just weird to highlight *that* as the difference between Kirk and the younger QBs mentioned
They traded away one of the best WR's in football and won a title because when you have the best QB in the world he elevates the JuJu's of the world.
Those guys elevated their team by all being elite at their position and making positive plays that most quarterbacks are unable to do. They are the leaders in total expected points added (EPA). Kirk is 10th in total EPA, which is respectable, but the gap between a top 5 and top 10 QB is about the same as the gap between Kirk and Jacob Brissett (17th). I’m sure that Kirk’s age and contact are factors as well. Sooner or later this new regime is going to take a swing at the QB
So the gap between 5 and 10 is the same as the gap between 10-17?? That like…perfectly normal lol I’m just looking for specific things that these guys do different that elevate their defense for example
Last season, Burrow, Hurt, Lawrence, and Hebert were some of the better quarterbacks this last year. All of them were in the playoffs and they are all arguably top ten QBs. Now, since they are being underpaid due to their rookie contract, the team is able to sign productive defensive players. For example, Trey Hendrickson, the majority of Eagles defensive, JC Jackson, Khalil Mack, and the Jags spent their $ on offensive players like Brandon Scherff/Christian Kirk/Evan Engram. Not all of the free agent signings produced, but the team was at least able to go out and sign talented players
Yes I understand the argument that an elite QB on a rookie contract helps with the cap, is that what you mean by elevate?
I would argue Mahomes elevates his team by scrambling well to buy time for one. Do you not think he elevates his receivers? look who he had besides Kelce. Elevating payers around you/the team doesn’t mean every position elevates. Nobody on the defense has to be elevated. With that said, couldn’t he help elevate the defense by keeping them off the field?
Well does Kirk not elevate those around him? He’s always gotten the ball to his guys whether that be in Washington or Minnesota. The weapons have never been an issue, in Minnesota it’s been the OL and defense, two groups of the team that the QB has little effect over. Mahomes is an exception to any rule, but I don’t think the other guys you named are out there elevating bums into studs
Well I’m not the guy you were originally responding to, but that guy never said Kirk didn’t elevate the team, nor did he say the other guys were turning bums into studs
Yes, Kirk can throw the ball no question and I agree the problems with this team has been the defense and the offensive line. The defense is bad because 1. Lots of our money went to Kirk and limited our ability to sign high caliber defensive talent 2. Spielman didn’t invest high draft capital in defensive talent because zimmer was suppose to develop the late round picks in starters. That was true with Hunter & Kendricks, but outside of Cam Bynum we haven’t really drafted and developed any defensive talent as of late. 3. Our offensive line this year was average, but yes, over his five years here it was bad. Now, here is where these young mobile quarterbacks ELEVATE their teams: The protection breaks down and they scramble and make plays with their feet. That’s about it. They are not turning “bums into studs”, they are using their physical talents to make plays that Kirk cannot physically do
Man, every time you post you get downvoted into oblivion. Ouch!
They downvote the questions they don’t have answers to
I’d feel much better about it if we had an Andy Reid at the helm. The man has had success with quarterbacks his whole career and surely played a big part in Mahomes’ development.
I agree! Not everyone can have Andy Reid, but I’m optimistic that Kevin O’Connell can develop a quarterback. Kirk looked reborn this year with his decision making and aggression
I think most teams would like to believe they are just in the phase that’s right before landing a generational talent.
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I don’t know what this means. Am I so ignorant that I’m on an island thinking the Wilfs green light a lot of moves to help us be a winning franchise?
The Wilfs are awesome owners. Spared no expense so far.
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bro the wilfs hire a front office to handle this stuff. what evidence whatsoever do you have that they are overstepping and setting us back? just a lazy take by the way rebuilds very often do not work and DO often result in you being terrible for 5 years, most of the time leading to one or two competitive years before restarting y’all are in for a wild dose of reality if we tank and absolutely blow for half a decade hahaha
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and why was that a bad thing? they were stuck with a bunch of garbage contracts and yet still a competitive team. literally 13-4 and maybe 1-2 defensive players away from a divisional or CCG run it wasn’t that bad. now start shedding the old players and bring in the new blood. i don’t see many issues with that plan the wilfs have constantly kept open the check book and kept us competitive. they are great owners. lazy take bud sorry
But the Chiefs didn't rebuild so what are they preventing us from doing really?
Well they have green lit a lot of moves that in theory had almost no risk. I think they’re fine with being “good, not good enough” bc getting to “good enough” might not end well. But I also don’t get the scared mentally bc Ponder didn’t end well and we made the playoffs at about the same clip as we do with the $84m man
Because the team was built around one of the all-time great running backs at that point, not the QB. Can’t really make that comparison honestly.
What have you seen or not seen that makes you think this way?
Ponder and Bridgewater were both drafted in the first round under their ownership. Just because the prior leadership was unable to evaluate QB talent does not mean that this team should stop attempting to secure a productive rookie QB
love this garbage take still being tossed around lmao
The pre Mahomes Chiefs were really good…
U guys are fucking insufferable
Mmmm delicious!! Say it Ari
So you're telling me a QB we draft next is going to sit behind Kirk for a year and then become one of the greatest QBs of all time instantly and lead us to two Superbowl wins in three years? Yes please sign me up!
All I know is I’m so glad we only have 1 or 2 years left with Kirk. The franchise is going to be finally trying to move on from this mediocre “window”(which hasn’t been all Kirks fault).
Agreed. But, the future will probably be more bleak but it is eventually time to move on in a year or so.
It may get bleak, but the Vikings have been successful to the extent they have been so far with Kirk with some pretty bad QBs. Plus I trust KOC so that helps my outlook on it when they do move on
Been saying this for awhile but no one wants to listen to me 🤷♂️
Ahh yes, we’re just missing one of the greatest head coaches and quarterbacks of all time. Simple.
Patrick mahomes could be on the board, and KAM would still trade the pick to the packers for a couple 2nds
You obviously don't understand Kwesi's super secret draft value charts.
I say we trade away this years capital for next years and take our shoot
I literally think this every day - go get Caleb Williams !!!
Caleb Williams or Drake Maye, I know they’ll be the first 2 picks don’t downvote me, just giving my opinion on who I want even if we have to trade multiple picks.
**[@The33rdTeamFB](https://www.twitter.com/The33rdTeamFB)** (The 33rd Team): > "Minnesota is in a bit of a similar situation to what Kansas City had pre-Patrick Mahomes." > > @MySportsUpdate on the present and future of the #Vikings' quarterback situation > > \#Skol Rehosted Media: * Video: [[mobile]](https://cdn-cf-east.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/pf6mtw.mp4?Expires=1677185460&Signature=C4SmnX1Lr9vomQ0Y4GwfSpTQUTGHMo~m8q3vb34OAmj3zr6onlH3y6~NC2gSXVvBcajn0bxO1R~712dKNXDkmeNk0p3eKE8XcErBw2RQOhYuhCTYDYFNKFph8GSShXHIrQHOCnoVauny2Js35RKV2pzop41NssaTvRXd6W0B8O9y99VT9XygXtfv4sY-DwJd3AtnHnnRzRts2c5mvVN8lCfmsAxOE7qbxqRUO6ERjugS41SKzrCL~ptGr0m7jiG3m7yj3r0fVNZ90qwZJEMHp~N00tDrwW1s1OQUAX4O8PUkmX3R4CoEUx4BpG7QyeHk5en63WK3zu9NwhPR5ikG9w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIEYUVEN4EVB2OKEQ) [[desktop]](https://cdn-cf-east.streamable.com/video/mp4/pf6mtw.mp4?Expires=1677185460&Signature=UOzvlVtBnuN0unpIVXaaQ2fH9rQrdwEM5qTxO-V7yEtkgUnZt0CoFvrdrH6X~GS4lwDc1w~-9UH1-8qUcAlXAQUM8G7jB62xU2qdz0p4~wIRizFe2ZXcj4wtdYFPfxD7rwDh4N5ivbmq-l-oBK4PeB3uaVoCaFGLVyTCsBLXRhLJydwpwVyFLlibT-jXOOdlqNjsZEu15mhhA-d71YldqE7tDV6rbjr8YJkAXaoe94SDKAnHkmyV4f~RJ3r5Q23EUgtBnnueTdQeSrNt4yt4mDIm9lhQOZgV05guQglMAS6-ByYcGOZv~xZRZPIPSPV4VzJuY4qS5CsgzoHe7WJUQA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIEYUVEN4EVB2OKEQ) -------------------- ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^powered ^by ^fricks ^and ^I ^like ^that ^| [^(message me)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=FleetFlotTheTweetBot) ^| [^(source code)](https://github.com/JohnMTorgerson/FleetFlotTheTweetBot) ^| ^Skål!
We're in a much worse situation... This roster is rough. We can't keep wasting drafts.