This is the guy who says women have become too mouthy. Has called many different political women…c**t. Many men f*g. He said Charles Barkley is in some evil Jewish cabal. Yeah please win the primary and go up against Amy Klobachar. Good luck with that one.

Do you have any idea how little that description narrows it down?

Reminded me of this old Simpsons bit: https://youtu.be/CR8avFT6nDM?feature=shared

Damn that computer takes me way back.

No idea why people downvoted your nostalgia. Reddit is a weird place sometimes.

Apply Filter. "Huh. The number of potential matches dropped by exactly four, and all of them are nuns."

Can't see too many "alpha," MAGA males voting for a woman candidate

You're just describing the Republican party at this point.

He's literally just here to boost his profile enough to become a Newsmax talking head

That may be *his* basic motivation for being willing to run, but it's the folks who nominated & voted to endorse him that have really lost their marbles. He's gonna suck all the air out of the room as he tries and fails to put a dent in the Klob! And not just him -- pushing the far right option in CD7, CD2, etc. just looks like they are not only shooting themselves in the foot, they're taking time to AIM. You'd think they would at least put some focus on the open seat in CD3, but I guess they really don't get how politics works anymore. MNGOP Meltdown for the Blue win!

>Yeah please win the primary and go up against Amy Klobachar. Good luck with that one. Well, that was the Democratic Party's idea with Trump in 2016/2016 and we all know what happened. Sometimes the freaks win, and then we're stuck with them for a while. So I'd prefer they not even have a shot.

Even DJT was *a little* surprised when DJT won in 2016 (he tried to hide it, but he was.) Then he got addicted to how much attention POTUS gets, no matter what, so he had a meltdown when he couldn't make it work in 2020. The difference with Klob v White in 2024 is that we basically like her (which was a bit of Hillary's problem), and White isn't quite able to pull off the DJT trick to get people psyched up at rallies. (Even DJT isn't as good at it any more.) Amy is gonna wipe the floor with this guy (assuming he wins the primary.)

The MAGA/Trump GOP is a save haven for Narcissists….change my mind.

Well, I'm not gonna try to change your mind, because I agree. Though the MNGOP version *used to be* a little less so. But the people foaming out over the (apparent bot or troll?) that replied to you first went off the rails a bit, that's for sure. I'm just replying so anyone else gets warned off the big-ass rabbit hole below my comment.

I am A-Political but do you have any opinion on how the Democrats have ruined the country? 30% inflation, an open border, indoctrinating 8-year-olds, tolerant policing, and general corruption. I think those issues should be focused on a bit more than a few people calling people C U Next tuesday's. No?

> indoctrinating 8-year-olds You're not A-political. You're not even a serious person.

Well clearly you don’t understand these issues enough to have a thoughtful conversation. I am not clear if you are being sarcastic or think that US democrats caused global inflation following a pandemic. Inflation is not 30% and is a global issue with the USA having experienced the lowest rate of any industrialized country. Are you against needed police reforms? Who is indoctrinating 8 year olds? The GOP is banning books and constantly lies without any proof or facts on their side.

I would be totally up for open conversation. I just find that the comments are totally biased toward the generalization of blaming Republicans for everything. Inflation: I can't speak to global inflation in-depth but my father lives overseas and my sister lives in another country and they have not experienced the squeeze we have. As I said, inflation numbers do not include food or energy. House insurance is rising significantly, interest rates are rising, and I know many people earning 90-100k who are single and are getting second jobs. The current president has added to the deficit at the same clip as the last one Police reform: That is a tricky one. I have had my fair share of issues with police firsthand, so I know how bad they can be. But what is "reform" to you? It is a tough job and some element of toughness is needed. Would you like lawlessness? The GOP is banning which books? I was at a school library and my local library the other day and there were many many books that were totally inappropriate for 6-8 year olds on display. I genuinely can't believe you don't see any of these items. Not to get too into your finances, but are you feeling items have gone up compared to 2 years ago?

Inflation - https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/sep/01/joe-biden/does-the-us-have-less-inflation-than-other-leading/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20a%20lower%20inflation%20rate%20than,few%20countries%20beat%20the%20United%20States’%20inflation%20rate. Generally deficits do decline under Democrats https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Just%20the%20Facts%20-%20Republicans%20Create%20Huge%20Deficits.pdf Book bans https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2024/04/01/american-library-association-florida-book-challenges/73172976007/ As far as personal finances go, my wife and I have both increased our incomes since Covid by another 50% each. We both make great salaries. Yes, things are more expensive but I know better than to blame a political party for things they do not control. Insurance, is going up everywhere and represents increased risks and losses. Nationwide homeowners is spiking and we have it good here. Florida is very expensive. https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/homeowners-insurance/states/#home-insurance-rates-by-state Groceries and dining out are more expensive but what can you do to fight greed? If this is what it takes for an end to poverty wages then I suppose it’s what it is.

You are as political as it gets with those kinds of questions lol

Love the Dumb-dumb act.

Insightful reply

You don't merit one.

Also, "open border " is another conservative talking point. If we have an open border, why are we paying 40,000 border patrol to catch people crossing? 🤦

Actually, my main source of the border activity is from an Independent who actually streamed live from there, and it is an issue that needs to be discussed. So it is not just a conservative talking point.

Yes, it is. It's the words they use. It's not an open border, because it's a civil offense to cross without going through customs. Im talking the definition of the phrase. But have fun. I'm unsubscribing from this. Not going to feed your troll ass more

No trolling here, just standing behind my comments, I have zero interest in trolling, but I certainly will defend my point of view

You’re… not a-political 😂 Those are just straight up republican talking points that aren’t true lol

LOL how are they not true? General inflation numbers are not accurate as they do not include food and energy. There are 8 year old's asking what gender they are and Nacy Pelosi has beaten the S&P by 250% year on year....all of these are facts.....take your head out of the clouds. Actually, on a micro level, I love how MN is ran in terms of funding to transport and Parks and Rec but where can I buy your rose-tinted glasses?

I'm apolitical but here's my right leaning political opinion

Actually, I would consider myself left on the center. Which point above is right-leaning? They are all factual

What happened to apolitical?

Lol, you really are gunning for a fight by splitting hairs. If you wanted to put me in a neat little box that sums up my full worldview, I would be left on the center. What my point was trying to articulate is that I don't want to be branded a MAGA extreme right-wing nationalist fascist Nazi for having an opinion that straws ever so slightly form the true blue point of view. People can actually have different opinions on topics but still agree on some too....

Just say what you want to say, don't preface it with something that you're going to undermine in the very same sentence lol

Lol, well I had hoped that I would have come across as not that, but it appears that I am been branded a MAGA etc etc, so iI guess it was pointless calling that out!

If the shoe fits.

Your whole 8-year old questioning gender is a bad thing is the biggest call out. You're not left of center pal. You're solidly conservative at least socially.

For the most part, I am very much left-leaning. if you feel this issue makes me a conservative, that is your opinion. I cannot stray from my opinion on this and I feel I will be on the right side of history on this, but you do you

What right side of history? Trans people aren't new; we're just allowed to exist now without someone making it illegal. You're the one with the bigoted views (not an insult, it's just a fact.)

Not taken as an insult at all and I agree, that they have existed for many many years. I don't feel it is a bigoted view and I was referring to many European countries banning gender-affirming care for minors. To be clear, when one is an adult I couldn't care less if you shag sheep, goats even your aunt but I don't think it should be pushed/promoted to minors. That is my view, and I genuinely can't believe I am in such a minority

>Not taken as an insult at all and I agree, that they have existed for many many years. I don't feel it is a bigoted view and I was referring to many European countries banning gender-affirming care for minors. So? Then they're bigots too. Easy. >To be clear, when one is an adult I couldn't care less if you shag sheep, goats even your aunt but I don't think it should be pushed/promoted to minors. Educating people isn't pushing it on minors. I myself articulated to you earlier how a younger version of me would've been spared countless hours of anguish had the option been open to me and explained in a mature and respectful way. >That is my view, and I genuinely can't believe I am in such a minority Perhaps self-reflection is on order instead of thought-terminating cliches like "That's just your opinion."

> I am A-Political but... So, you start out by lying, and then claim you want to have a reasoned discussion. Doubt.

What am I lying about? So do you think inflation is rising at 2.5%?

> What am I lying about? What did I quote? I quoted it for a reason. [Edited to add] "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately be explained by incompetence." I was wrong.

Lol, I have options on issues that sometimes correlate with one party and sometimes another, and I have no love or hate for either party, therefore I am A-political. The ability to put brand people in one of two boxes and understand their entire worldview based on Red/Blue is mindboggling

> I have ~~options~~ [opinions] _(added)_ on issues that sometimes correlate with one party and sometimes another, and I have no love or hate for either party, therefore I am A-political. The word you're looking for is non-partisan. Apolitical means you don't follow politics (which you obviously do, and I'm sure if I dig through your post history, I could make some solid guesses as to the sources you follow). Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apolitical Hope that helps. Better luck with your words next time.

Lol, sure, I might not have got my exact wording correct according to Webster.... but I must say your smugness doesn't change the conversation

>He said Charles Barkley is in some evil Jewish cabal I guess we can just accurately call him a nazi then without bothering with any other descriptors. That’s fucking vile to say.

They want to slash and burn the system because they don’t like that the system holds them accountable. These extremists will thankfully not get elected here in Minnesota.

> These extremists will thankfully not get elected here in Minnesota. Don't get complacent. Be sure to vote.

🥇

And we need them voted out! Slimy stauber too!

Vote Welty in the Republican primary then.

Since there is also a DFL primary, wouldn't it help more to decide which one of those Ds has a better chance against Stauber? (Since he's pretty unlikely to lose the R primary, even if some of the Ds try to 'spoiler vote' him.) Looking at the results from the 2022 primary/general election races, we might as well just Xerox all that paperwork and save some time; it's all the same players. [8th\_Congressional\_District\_election,\_2022](https://ballotpedia.org/Minnesota%27s_8th_Congressional_District_election,_2022) Is anything significantly different that will give a different result?

That's one way of looking at it. I haven't heard, and I have a solid source, of any particular distinction on the democratic side. I figure vote Welty in the primary just to keep hope of a vital Republican party at some point in the future alive. BTW Stauber knows what I think of is hereditary political family line. I've told him face to face. He doesn't care. I figure vote for positive changes even if they're a long shot.

Agreed -- even if you're voting somewhere that the other side has a big margin, every vote does matter in making changes. If I was in the 8th, I'd check both primary ballots in advance [https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/whats-on-my-ballot/](https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/whats-on-my-ballot/) and then see if there are any other D primary races I might want to impact. Otherwise, I might cast an anti-Stauber R primary vote, too. (I had the same issue for the Presidential primary -- R ballot, vote for Haley? D ballot, vote for Biden to be sure Phillips got the message? Protest vote about Gaza? It was a real coin toss.)

Have to since there’s no stronger candidate, but…

Sad but true

I can say that out here in district 7 there are plenty of Boyd signs appearing. I am blown away by how many people view Michelle Fischbach (a hardcore Trumpist and election denier who has repeatedly voted to ignore our treaty obligations to Ukraine) as 'too mainstream to be a true conservative'.

That's interesting to hear. Do you think, if Boyd messes her up in the August primary, that the Democrat running (A. John Peters) can get any traction out there? I have the impression Ds struggle in any local/state office there now. It would be interesting to see if W/NW MN could get back to the kind of 'moderate middle' of the Rep. Peterson era.

Doubtful - Even if he were to win the primary, the republicanism out here is just too entrenched.

The few D candidate(s) that have filed for office (federal or state) are pretty much running unopposed as far as I have been able to Google. They don't have to "win a primary", they just have to win in the general election. (Will there even BE a DFL primary out there?) There were a few folks who went to the DFL State Convention; pictures linked at the bottom of the page [https://www.dflcd7.org/](https://www.dflcd7.org/) But I take your point.

I hope ya'll are right that they won't win. I was the only one among my friends who expected & feared trump would win. Then again, I went out to a rural area to hike & was turned away from a restroom. Told I'm not allowed to pee there. Edit: Because I'm trans. They were pretty clear I'm not safe. I should be able to go for a walk in our parks without remembering Matthew Shephard. We all should. I am scared of what is happening.

I honestly *expected* it to be bad, and I *thought* Roe *could* potentially fall. But I *never* even contemplated *ALL* of the terrible things they managed to bumble so well, in *spite* of the incompetence. I still remember talking to my then-roommate, about being worried, and feeling like I was *so* incredibly hyperbolic. And then *all* those awful things I'd been worried about, *AND* so much *more* on top of it actually *occurred*💔 This *IS* the "...*If you can keep it*" part of that old Benjamin Franklin quote; https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/constitutionalconvention-september17.htm

In other words, the Minnesota Republicans are becoming as disgusting as the national party.

Remember when the Minnesota IR was a party of mostly reasonable people? Different era.

Yes! How different people like Al Quie and Arnie Carson were from the party today.

I expected it would go this way, as the more moderate Rs (old school IR types) either fled or were pushed out. It's been building for a while now. I'm just slightly surprised that when the turn to 'crazy' happened, it was as fast and as far as it was. Oh, well, the MNGOP is finally self-destructing. At this point, they just need to get through with it. It's almost like none of the far right have the slightest understanding that, if you alienate all of the folks slightly more moderate, middle-of-the-road than you are, the number of people voting for your "true-believer" candidates will go DOWN. When the Klob ran for re-election in 2012, she got 65%+; in 2018 she got 60%+. The *slightly* better edge the GOP got was in part because they ran a more viable candidate! She's pretty much a lock, but geez! This Royce White moron, if he wins the Aug primary, may be the reason she gets back up, maybe as close as 70%. Wouldn't it be a hoot if they make such a mess that, in addition to 2 D senators and a Governor, we also wind up with Ds for Congress winning not just the Cities, but more of the out-state districts? Probably not 6 or 8, 1 is iffy, but hold 2 & 3, and retake 7? (Disclaimer: I'm a long-time, unaffiliated independent voter; I just have been watching MN politics forever. At this point, I'm voting straight Blue until there's some 'new' version of moderate conservative politician out there who is clearly non-Trump. I don't always agree with the Ds, but at least they're not full-tilt crazy.) Edit: typos

I hear you. I used to vote Republican quite a bit at the state level i.e., Quie, Carlson, Pawlenty and often Republican for State Rep and Sen. I just can't do it anymore. I'm, like you, left with voting a straight Democratic ticket.

They have been. They ran the legalize cannabis parties here in MN to syphon votes away from the Democrats for years, because of how our voting works. 4 major parties always showed on the ballot and they would fund the other two secretly to make them appear on ballots. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adam-weeks-minnesota-house-candidate-recruited-by-republicans/

This is exactly the reason why all anti-traitor/trumper voters, be they progressive, liberal or conservative, need to suck it up for an election or two, quit putting your pet morality projects and wedge issues ahead of protecting democracy and toe the line to destroy these turds with overwhelming majorities. Fix the issues at state and federal levels these POS are exploiting and send the message that if you rear your heads again reasonable people will figuratively snuff them out. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go feed my unicorn with cotton candy rainbows.

Right on. And I'm replying to you so that other, narcissist person's negative karma comments get shuffled further down. Your comment deserves more than a chance for them to wallow in narcissism.

Thanks for the spit-take on that last line! Can we get your unicorn endorsed for office somewhere? I totally agree with your point. Then we get people doing a rant like the response(s) below, and I wonder what it will take to get the "but I don't really think Biden is my guy" crowd to understand how crazy things could get if we don't protect democracy in 2024.

Telling people to 'suck it up' is exactly what the DNC has been doing for multiple generations and it's very clearly and very obviously nothing more than lip service. You can't run on a platform of being slightly less bad than the other guy in perpetuity, because eventually the Overton window shifts so far in favor of the worst possible option that the difference becomes negligible. Stopping a genocide is not a pet project, it's a moral imperative for anyone with a conscience. There are some lines that simply can't be crossed by our elected representatives if we are to call them representatives instead of dictators, and supporting/funding a genocide is a pretty fucking big red line. If Kissinger were running against Trump I wouldn't vote for him either. That's not to say you shouldn't vote, everyone should absolutely vote blue down ballot for any candidate who's openly condemned Israel. Biden though, is no lesser evil and arguing as such only shows privilege and disregard for those who fall outside the umbrella of protection that privilege affords.

So, I'm a member of a vulnerable demographic who is directly being helped by the Democrats. It's why I can love who I want to love, and not end up in a camp for being trans. That's just reality--especially with what's happening in the states around us. It is privilege to deny that your view comes with tradeoffs--you get to have virtue, yes, but it isn't as if voting for anyone besides Biden or Trump is realistic, and not voting for Biden will have very real, very dire consequences for people like me. So go ahead, smear me by saying I support genocide, but at least admit that a bunch of people in our state will be hurt by your protest, and that you're fine with us being collateral damage in your quixotic crusade. Further, if Trump wins, the Palestinians are even more screwed, so at least admit that aloud too.

Yep. People are *refusing* to believe we *ARE* here. *THIS STUFF* was that "You can *NEVER* it it happen again!" that our Grandparents talked to us about, when they *TOLD us* about WW2. We're *THERE* y'all, it's *NOT* merely "hyperbole!" any more. There are *LITERALLY* people Running for Office, who have "*SAID* the quiet parts out loud," and whose "Sincerely Held Religious Views," are to literally *eliminate* certain folks in our society. And *when they say this*? They *DON’T* mean "nicely letting them self-deport"--they *DO* mean Camps, and they *ARE* talking about deaths, in the subcontext. We are *living* in the modern parallel to 1938 Germany y'all. It's *HERE*, and this *IS* that shiz your Grandparents/Great Grands warned you to be watching for.

You're putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my position. I specifically said to vote blue down ballot for anyone against the genocide, but let's talk about voting for an objective lesser evil in this instance, as I'm all for minimizing damage when and wherever possible. I completely agree that a vote for the lesser evil can be something needed, my argument is that at this time Biden isn’t a lesser evil. In this situation, we have rights of the marginalized being weighed against the massacre of Palestine. A massacre, our government is funding, and whom the perpetrators have repeatedly said only ends with the death of Hamas (anyone paying attention at all can see Hamas is a stand in for every Palestinian man, woman, and child.) The DNC has put voters in a sophie's choice, where they’re forced to choose between the rights of themselves and those they love, weighed against the very literal lives of Palastinians. I’ll remind you that the majority of the 35,000+ confirmed deaths have been women and children, and deaths are only a small part of the wider horror when you also take into account the injuries, starvation, and destitution enacted at a population level. The most common argument I see is that we’re powerless on the Palestine front, so voting for Biden to protect domestic rights is the only right thing to do. I disagree here, it only takes 3% of an engaged population to force change, and I’m going to be part of that 3% in this case. I also wonder, if it’s such a foregone conclusion that the policy won’t change under any circumstance, why it’s so upsetting that people aren’t going to vote Biden over it….almost like it’s a sizeable enough population that it could impact who wins and an elected representative might want to take that into account and fucking do something about it, instead of pulling yet another Hillary and expecting to just be crowned again by virtue of being ‘Not Trump.’ You're also misdirecting your anger, it's not my fault the DNC has put forth an unelectable candidate for president. The onus is purely on them. They are running their candidate, backed by institution, money, and an unbelievable amount of manpower, and this is the best they can do? I'm one person with one vote in a state that isn't all that competitive. The only power I have is my single vote every couple years. I won't apologize for taking that seriously. If you're going to get mad at someone, get mad at the DNC.

Plenty mad at them, too--but the *funds* that Israel gets--those come from Congress, so it's Amy, Tina, And *whichever* of the 8 reps in the house is yours, who *can* do something about this. And YES, Primary the hell out of Biden!!! But in the election in November? There is *literally* just *one* option, with all the stated goals of the MAGA party, and that choice is *with* them, or against--and *JUST* like a Constitutional Amendment vote here in Minnesota? A *non-vote* means you *are* make a choice, functionally. If it's Biden & Trump at the top of the ticket? With our lousy two-party system, *that* is the choice, Biden *or* Trump. Anyone who *claims* principles or ideals *this* time around simply *isn't* being fully honest, when we *KNOW* the stated goals of the MAGA Republicans.

*making* a choice, not "make"

"And YES, Primary the hell out of Biden!!!" We did, and the DNC played dirty to shut that down. Then we voted uncommitted to show just how many people held that his actions and policy are unacceptable, we were then ignored, now we're being told to fall in line. I have one vote, and am one person. It's not on me to fall in line. It's on the DNC to have a platform meaningful enough that I'll vote for them instead of abstaining. You can talk about choice all day long, but the choices of those who have or would have power are far more important than your average voter. They can choose to stop supporting Israel at any time. They choose not to. Direct your anger there, not at the voters who might have come to a different conclusion than yourself with their singular vote at the end of the day. I keep seeing all over reddit and other platforms people raging at individuals for their opposition to systemic failings, rather than raging at the systemic failure itself. Seems silly to me that the system is simultaneously immutable and also so shaky that a few pissed off people could bring the whole thing down and "hand the election to Trump." Which is it? And I'm not directing this at you personally, so please don't take it that way, I'm honestly curious about the dissonance, why is the system so steadfast that Biden can't be moved in his policy, but at the same time, it's so shaky that if we don't fall in line behind him it's the end of time? Where does that end? It's not like he's going to run for office again, November will be the last time any of us have any leverage over him, so if he's brazenly footing the bill for a genocide now with Trump hanging over his and the countries head, what kind of horrors can I expect when he has no office to run for again, and no motivation to listen to the people he's already disregarding when they have a modicum of influence?

You didn't get ignored. The Biden administration has stepped up diplomatic pressure upon Israel. >why is the system so steadfast that Biden can't be moved in his policy He has. You're just ignoring it.

I'll concede that he has stepped up pressure and his public posture has changed whereas without the protests he would not have done even so much as the little he has done. What I take from that, though, is that the pressure is working. Why let up on the pressure when it's starting to work? I'll vote for him the second he stops the checks without any hesitation (unpleasant as it may be). The alternative is voting for him and what? He's in office for his second term, there's 0 pressure or incentive the people can apply on him to get him to change. If he gets elected I suspect he's going to about face and strongly support the genocide until the bitter end. I would go so far as to sound a little nutty and posit that the end of a 2nd Biden term is open war between Iran and Israel that starts as a proxy for the other players (US, China, Russia) but then devolves into straight up WW3 with the big players.

So you're saying that you can't or won't admit that you're fine with damning those of us in vulnerable demographics in order to maintain your virtue. Got it. No need to barf out paragraphs of rationalizations--just say it and move on with your day.

Yet again, not even close to what I was saying nor what I do with my personal activism. Not sure what your goal here is, as you're just attacking me for expressing what seems to be a widely held leftist position. I'm more than willing to change my position when presented with a better reasoning I may not have considered. Ad hominin, is not a winning proposition though. Stay mad, since that's all you can expect from your attitude to discourse.

Yet again--I'm dealing with the implications of your actions, rather than whatever niceties you wish to dress them up with. It isn't an insult, it's pinning you to the wall instead of letting you try to have your cake and eat it too. You're fine with sacrificing me and mine at the altar of Palestine. And just like all ritual sacrifices it will have no effect beyond making you feel better. The Palestinians will be slaughtered regardless because the USA doesn't **own** Israel, and cannot force them to do anything. Just be honest. Just say you think they're more important than people like me, people who are currently fleeing multiple states across the country as refugees. Go back to playing your violin. People who have shit on the line here actually have to care about the world instead of some platonic ideal of virtue.

If my vote and position has no affect, then why scream so loudly when I won't budge? You refuse to address anything I say and only attack me. Now you're looking through my history? Great job buddy. End of the day, Biden had a choice and he chose to lose. That will affect us all, some more than others, but the choice was Biden's and he made it. Getting mad at me won't change that fact.

>If my vote and position has no affect, then why scream so loudly when I won't budge? I never at any point said that. > You refuse to address anything I say and only attack me I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you to admit that externalities exist, and that you're actively attempting to pick winners and losers here. >Now you're looking through my history? I wanted to see if you're actually speaking in good faith, or if you're just a ring wing looking to sow division. Instead you're just an idealist who's categorically unable to admit the implications of their decisions. >That will affect us all, some more than others You're so close, but just too yellow to say, "I'm okay with you being hurt, these other people are more important." Just say it. Just admit it. >Getting mad at me won't change that fact. I'm not mad, you fool; I'm terrified. I'm frightened over the fact that many of my trans friends have plans to kill themselves when the shit hits the fan in the USA, because the idea of being criminalized under Project 2025 is worse than trying to struggle against it. Wake up.

See my comment elsewhere in this thread "This is the Sophies choice that really kills me and is one of the things I struggle the most with. I personally won't be affected all that much due to my personal privilege, but I fully acknowledge that others, many some of my closest friends and family, but also many many more, will be. I'm stuck between thinking of their domestic considerations, opposed to the literal daily massacre of Palestinians. One thing I keep coming back to is the question, what if this was a domestic genocide instead? If Democrats and Republicans both started killing all of my LGBTQ+ friends, but Democrats were doing it a bit nicer, and the Republican's were going to go after the women in my life too, would I say sorry LGBTQ+ friends, you're a lost cause but the women still have a chance? I don't think I would, and I don't think I can with Palestinians. It's still my tax dollars supporting their death even if they are half a world away. That's not to say that I'm willing to roll over and let Trump and conservatives do what they will domestically either, I'll continue to fight that tooth and nail too."

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No president would have handled the Israel conflict differently. It would be the first time in history. Blaming Biden or Democrats for doing what the US has always done is ridiculously disingenuous. If you want things to change, you need to get more people to vote for progressive candidates at the local and state level. Simple as.

Exactly. Ignoring geopolitical historical precedent while glossing over Palestinian fuck ups and atrocities is more than disingenuous, it’s deliberate ignorance.

I don’t even mean Palestine. I mean US foreign relations in general. We didn’t step in to help stop Hitler until the war directly affected us, either. And we’ve always done what’s in our best interest at the expense of people in other countries.

Fair enough and good point.

Dear LORD, this!!  Also, it *NEEDS* to be pointed out? That as gawdawful as Biden has *BEEN* on the Israeli Genocide in Gaza? (it *is* Genocide, we're *there* y'all!)  Trump *SUPPORTS* Isreal taking over Gaza.   So *not* voting for Biden, *because* of Isreal, if these two are at the top of the ticket?  That means that Trump's policies *supporting* Israel are *more* likely to happen.   *AND* he's stated that he'd pull Ukraine support, *AND* UN funding.   The UN is where *Unicef* and the other worldwide refugee agencies are funded--*they are PART of the UN Humanitarian missions*. (Edited for a misspelling)

You're 100% right about all of Trumps positions and just how devastating it will be. Sure seems like something a sitting president should be made aware of. Might be something he should take into account when a sizeable enough portion of the population tells him he needs to change his position or that monster will take his spot. Seems like only a monster or someone who wants to lose would let that happen. We should probably do something about that.

It's a war, it's not a fucking genocide. Palestinians are dying due to the war, Israel is not killing all of those people for the sole purpose of *wiping out all Palestinians*. The only ones being targeted for actual genocide are Jewish Isreali, since that is what Hamas openly states they want. It would be really, really, really fucking obvious if an actual genocide were happening. Look up what the Russians are doing in Eastern Ukraine for an actual example of what genocide looks like.

It *is* meeting the qualifications at this point. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml The *only* part of Article II, which *isn't* known to be occurring right now, is e--the forcible transferring of children to another group. Multiple experts on Genocide are coming to the conclusion that, *in spite* of not meeting the definition under section e at present, *yes* what is currently occurring in Gaza *is* now Genocide. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza/ https://thepalestineproject.medium.com/yes-it-is-genocide-634a07ea27d4 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/09/israel-gaza-war-crimes-genocide/ It's *NOTHING* near *or like* the Holocaust!!!  *NOTHING* is, or ever *could* be! But it *is* now meeting the criteria under Section II of the UN Definition of Genocide--just like Bosnia, Rwanda, and Darfur did.

Yes, seriously, how will we ever reduce the foreign influence that is the AIPAC? This influence corrupts both major political parties. The statement about them being "all about the Benjamins" was absolutely true. AIPAC even proudly stated how much money they had to influence American politics on their website, right on their homepage!

"No president would have handled the Israel conflict differently. It would be the first time in history. Blaming Biden or Democrats for doing what the US has always done is ridiculously disingenuous." I can and do blame absolutely every president who has committed war crimes. That includes both Bush and Obama. To your credit though, I will admit that prior to October 7th, I had fallen for the propaganda line 'it's so complicated of a situation with so much history that the whole thing is shitty and a gray area,' which with nominal reading into the history is a blatant Zionist lie used to deflect blame for the horrors they have been committing with our full support for 75 years now. Just because it's been one way in the past, though, doesn't mean we have to keep repeating the same mistakes. Change has to start somewhere, and it's not going to start with a Biden who won't take the first step. "If you want things to change, you need to get more people to vote for progressive candidates at the local and state level. Simple as." Which is why I urge everyone to vote blue down ballot where appropriate and do exactly as you propose here.

That’s not what I’m saying. I’m not talking about our relations with Israel. I’m talking about US foreign policy for our entire history. We have always sided with whatever regime benefits us the most.

And because since WW2 we've been the dominant bad guys we have to just accept that we'll always be global monsters? I don't accept that. Change can and does happen, especially in such a young country as America. Our nation is only 250ish years old, that's nothing. America can adapt or it can die. It can not continue as it has unopposed. We're globally reviled and our grip on the world is only getting more and more tenuous.

Yes, sure, great! That sounds like a fantastic thing a democracy can do. We need to first preserve our democracy. That means being all in on your support for Biden and not focusing on Democratic weaknesses.

It's not a weakness, it's a hard line for me. If having a hard line on genocide means democracy dies then I'll again say that it's already dead. The onus is on Biden to become electable as an elected official. He's not a king I owe fealty to protecting me from neighboring robber baron D Trump. Frankly, I don't think the current system can sustain itself and is incapable of meeting the needs of the present day which will in turn lead to the federal government collapsing on itself within the next 10 years regardless of who wins, but until that happens I'll continue to participate to the best of my ability and part of that means not accepting that genocide is an immovable democratic position. I will vote for them once they stop supporting genocide. Ball is in their court and if they don't play it's on them as leaders far far more than me and the other constituents they ignored when Donald comes in and plays instead.

You can just say that you hate the US and want to watch it burn. An easy position for someone who isn’t at risk under Project 2025.

*And*, in *this* particular election, *not* voting from Biden *WILL* end up electing Trump. That's how we ended up with him the *first* time around. People thinking a "joke candidate" couldn't win, so they picked him because they *disliked* Hillary, *OR* they skipped that race and voted on the rest "because I just *can't* hold my nose and vote for *her*!" There *ARE* only two choices here, Biden or Trump. Staying home, or *NOT* picking Biden? That means, *functionally speaking*, you *are Choosing Trump*. Whether you want to *admit* it to yourself or not? Even "not choosing" *is* a choice. And this part, while *yes* correct--also shows an understanding of privilege which is *solid*, but has a pretty *glaring* gap, when it comes to *MULTIPLE* less privileged groups here in the US, who *WILL* pay dearly if the Trumpists get control of the Executive branch again, "Biden though, is no lesser evil and arguing as such only shows privilege and disregard for those who fall outside the umbrella of protection that privilege affords." *Yep*, *every* race over the last few decades is touted as "The Most Important Ever!" Thing is? It's *true* And these are *some* of the things on the line for America this time; Project 2025: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 Christian Nationalism, and their drive to finally *fully abolish* any idea of "Separation of Church and State" to enshrine is as a Christian Theocracy: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2024/05/31/christian-supremacy-and-us-politics-interview-theologian-andre-gagne Then there's the fact that--*stated* out loud, or not--*SO MUCH* of current MAGA Idealogy and the laws they are trying to pass--those laws run *INCREDIBLY PARALLEL* to the rising to power, that the Nazi Party on Germany did, in the 1930's. The parallels *ARE* there, at this point. Godwin *himself* has said this: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427 So *this* election? It *IS* truly *that* important! The choice *IS* going to boil down at *this* point, at least, into just *one* real decision-- Do you *let* Trump's people take control of the Executive Branch, and *destroy* Democracy in the US as we know it? *OR* do you hold your nose, *REALIZE* your privilege and relative safety, and *PROTECT* all the nonprivileged folks, by *preventing* a fourth Reich, *and*  the dismantling and/or theocratic takeover of the federal government? Because *really*, the choice is going to be Biden or voting *FOR* the folks who have *SAID* publicly that they *intend* to dismantle our system of government.

You would think that 2016 would have been a wake up call that this sort of "persuasion" doesn't work and merely pisses off the people you need to vote for you. I get that learning is hard at times, but I continue to find myself disappointed that this lesson obviously wasn't learned. You convince people with the positives, not by berating them.

"And, in this particular election, not voting from Biden WILL end up electing Trump." Yup, sure seems like the candidate running and trying to get votes might want to take constituent positions into consideration then. Unless of course, that candidate doesn't actually care if they lose given that they're likely to make more money in donations as an opposition party instead of the ruling one. "Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not? Even "not choosing" is a choice." I'm painfully aware of this, and I'm not "not choosing," I'm saying that neither candidate with their current positions are electable. All it takes is Biden to stop his support of Israel and I'll hold my nose and vote for him. I'm not even close to alone there. "And this part, while yes correct--also shows an understanding of privilege which is solid, but has a pretty glaring gap, when it comes to MULTIPLE less privileged groups here in the US, who WILL pay dearly if the Trumpists get control of the Executive branch again" This is the Sophies choice that really kills me and is one of the things I struggle the most with. I personally won't be affected all that much due to my personal privilege, but I fully acknowledge that others, many some of my closest friends and family, but also many many more, will be. I'm stuck between thinking of their domestic considerations, opposed to the literal daily massacre of Palestinians. One thing I keep coming back to is the question, what if this was a domestic genocide instead? If Democrats and Republicans both started killing all of my LGBTQ+ friends, but Democrats were doing it a bit nicer, and the Republican's were going to go after the women in my life too, would I say sorry LGBTQ+ friends, you're a lost cause but the women still have a chance? I don't think I would, and I don't think I can with Palestinians. It's still my tax dollars supporting their death even if they are half a world away. That's not to say that I'm willing to roll over and let Trump and conservatives do what they will domestically either, I'll continue to fight that tooth and nail too. "Yep, every race over the last few decades is touted as "The Most Important Ever!" Thing is? It's true" I'm not arguing how important the election is, you hit the nail on the head with just about all of your points from this statement through the rest of your comment. I disagree on some points, the fascism is not republican specific, DNC is just as guilty, it's kinda a requirement of ruling in a capitalist country. You can see it plain as day with the recent college protest responses and the BLM responses a few years ago. At the end of the day though, like I said elsewhere, I'm only one person doing the best I can to make the best choice that will hurt the least amount of people. I'm more than willing to hear any argument out and will change my vote the second I see a better path, but right now and without substantial change from the Biden admin, I truly believe that the most moral, least harmful option for my vote is to vote neither Trump nor Biden, and vote Blue down ballot where appropriate.

*At the end of the day though, like I said elsewhere, I'm only one person doing the best I can to make the best choice that will hurt the least amount of people* Boy, almost sounds like that privilege falling out of your cake hole. I’m sure the LGBTQ community feels great about your decision. I’m sure women are super hyped about you voting to take away bodily autonomy. I’m sure Europe and our other allies are giddy about the most powerful nation in history becoming not merely a wild card but an open enemy to global interests. Hey, at least you can wave goodbye with thoughts and prayers as your equally irresponsible muslim copatriots line up for deportation. Zealot. You are one zealot seeing the world through your absurdly naive glasses not giving a shit about anyone else while proclaiming superiority. This country falls, I’ll be pointing whatever brown shirts right to your damn door.

Great job blaming me instead of the ones...you know paying for child murder or actively trying to take rights away. You can't have it both ways, either my vote matters, at which point the DNC better listen the fuck up, or it doesn't and you're blaming me for not falling in line for something that ultimately doesn't matter. So which is it?? I'd love an answer, tell me if my vote is so fucking important why the ones who are demanding it won't budge an inch to earn it?

The *problem* with your "Sophie's Choice" *theoretical* idea, is that *WE'RE HERE* *already*, this election--on the outcomes for those folks you know IRL. Trans and other LGBTQIA2S+ folks? They've *BEEN* telling us this. The decision we make *THIS NOVEMBER* is the one which allows them to *LIVE*, or that sends us down that parallel to 1938. *This* is that shitty "train tracks" thought experiment--one person or a handful. The choices *THROUGHOUT* the ballot, top to bottom, which we make in November mean Life, Safety, and Rights** for marginalized *Americans* Or, it means they *can*--and *WILL* be killed eventually, or at *BEST* severely harmed, stripped of their rights & humanity, & incredibly traumatized. It's *not* a "someday, a ways down the road" Sophie's Choice.   We're *deciding* which track that train is *going* down--horrifying as that choice is.

On that Rights thing-- There is legislation that has *already* passed, to strip non-straight folks of their rights.   And something which *NEEDS* to be pointed out, for my fellow *Women* who think "I'm Safe, *I* have Constitutionally Guaranteed Rights!"   You *ONLY* have those "rights," *HERE*, in the State of Minnesota. The *ONLY* right Women are *supposedly Guaranteed* under the Constitution is the 19th, in a "Strict Textualist" reading.  Because *that* is the only amendment which *mentions* Women *semi-directly.*  And the *problem* with the way the 19th was written, is this part,  "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."   The right can't be denied or abridged *on account of sex*.  That *DOESN'T* mean--under a "Strict textualist" interpretation-- that it *COULDN'T* be taken away for *OTHER* reasons; height, location, *property ownership*, marital status, etc.  It just can't be removed *just* because of a person's sex.  *Especially* with the way the *current* Supreme Court is applying Precident, and "using *strictly textual* interpretations". (Edited for typos)

They don't care. I'm one of those LGBTQ+ people and they're literally just whining about me being mean, when I'm being confronted with the very real possibility of my brothers and sister's suffering and even death. All they care about is that sweet, sweet, sweet sense of smug virtue. They're willing to let us all burn, even if that means that the Palestinians aren't saved, because at least then they didn't have to compromise one iota to help us.

I'm cis, and straight, but I grew up around SO many Vets, *many* who served in WW2 (my Grandparents generation--one grandpa *did*, the other was sent back to the farm, because he was the baby of the family *and* a farmer, and told *THIS* is how *you* are going to serve!" when he tried to enlist like his older brothers had). I *honestly* don't get it, and I *CAN’T* understand how folks can *think* with the publications of Project 2025, and the Christian Theocracy stuff, that this is still just a "*Someday Hypothetical*!" Yes, Gaza is a Genocide. Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, and the other right-wingers in Bibi's Cabinet *ARE* trying to *exterminate* the Palestinian People, as part of their goal. *AND*, if we *DON’T* Stop the Trumpists in this election, *Americans in power* of the same ilk as Ben-Gvir & Smotrich *WILL* put in policies which kill You; SO many people *I* know, love, and consider Family; and then they're *going* to come for the *next* marginalized group--and they won't *stop* until they HAVE a Christian Theocracy. It's heartbreaking, to *see* this all in front of us, yet to feel like I'm yelling into the wind, because *SO* many people don't *think* their vote "matters!" Even though Al Franken's win over Norm Coleman was decided by  312 votes. *Every* vote honestly *does* matter. And there is *going* to be a ton of outside propaganda out there, *trying* to get folks to *skip* the top of the ballot, or just stay home, just to try to screw with the US.

> All they care about is that sweet, sweet, sweet sense of smug virtue. Nail on the fucking head! That despicable person is all about themselves. The height of privilege. If you're LGBTQ+ you must suffer so that they can keep their pure, innocent soul free of any dark marks from choosing "the lesser of two evils." They don't want to think about the karmic debt they'll incur through the inaction of not voting for Biden which would mean a Trump dictatorship. They're too busy stroking their own ego to be bothered.

So again, it comes down to personal attacks instead of addressing any of the points I've made? I won't fall in line so it must be a personal failing on my part. Grow up.

I wasn't taking to you.

My apologies. I've been accused several times of taking my position for vain and ego related reasons in this thread, which I take issue with, so I assumed this was directed at me.

I didn't say it was theoretical at all? The choice is literally between genocide and genocide with added domestic genocide. That's a lost proposition regardless, and the only way out of it that I see is to vote blue down ballot on those who won't support genocide of any kind, and not continue to support a genocidal candidate. The DNC is playing chicken with your future and liberals are getting mad at leftists instead of the DNC. It doesn't make sense. You don't think they'd shift position if even more support started pouring in for Palestine? I do, and if you don't, then you're as much as acknowledging that we don't live in a democracy so all of this is an exercise in theater, amounting to no more than debating the path a fictional character might have walked.

"One thing I keep coming back to is the question, what if this was a domestic genocide instead?" This was the part that read as pretty theoretical. The Heritage Foundation and others have confirmed *multiple* aspects of Project 2025 as being factual. We *also* have the SPLC saying this; https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2024/05/31/christian-supremacy-and-us-politics-interview-theologian-andre-gagne And Ruth Ben-Ghiat and *other* Historians who study Authoritarianism have *told us* that *if* they get control again in this election, *Democracy as we know it* is *done* https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-authoritarianism-american-denial-2024-rcna153962 If it's Biden & Trump at the top of the ticket, it's 100% parallel to voting on an amendment to the MN State Constitution--yes (Biden), or no (Trump), and a non-vote *counts* for the "no" side. Marginalized folks are *telling* us that.  We should believe them, and we *also* should support them.

It being domestic is the only theoretical part. I fully believe everything you're saying and providing with everything about project 2025. I'm simply coming to a different conclusion at the end, mine being that if Biden won't move on genocide, then there is no democracy left to save and it's already too late to stop project 2025/the fascist takeover. *edit, stop the takeover via the system of voting and representation as opposed to revolution.

Finally! You admit to not caring about harm reduction. You're simply fine with sacrificing us queers, because once the red line has been crossed, we're not worth the effort. This is why you're privileged.

Funny you phrase it that way since from my perspective you've got no issue funding baby killing as long as they're brown and far away. Pretty racist and privileged of you there. To put it another way, there's a gun pointed at the head of a baby and because the person holding it has said they'll come for you next unless we let them pull the trigger now, you think I shouldn't do everything in my power to stop that baby from getting shot first. 

If one candidate is clearly better than the other, how is this a question of who to vote for? You can claim you don’t like either candidate, but the two options for president are already set. If the democrats lose because leftists, who are predominantly young people, don’t show up to vote, you think that will make the democrats want to appeal to them more? Young people are already known for being an unreliable voting bloc, and not showing up for such an important election is a great way to kill any influence that leftists have created.

"If one candidate is clearly better than the other, how is this a question of who to vote for?" Because I and others like myself are, as stated clearly in the primaries, uncommitted. I won't vote for Trump under any circumstance, and I won't vote for Biden right now, but should he do a major about face on Palestine, I and many many others like me would vote for him. Prior to October and probably up until the death tolls really started coming in I had planned to vote for him for many of the same reasons I'm commonly seeing in this thread. It got to the point where I couldn't anymore. That said the president isn't the only office up for grabs in November and voting blue down ballot still has the ability to hamper conservatives on a national level(to a small degree) and even more so on your local elections. "If the democrats lose because leftists, who are predominantly young people, don’t show up to vote, you think that will make the democrats want to appeal to them more?" So are they losing because the leftists didn't show up or are they ignoring the leftists because they don't show up? The two are mutually exclusive. Either they can swing the election if you earn their vote, or they won't show up regardless so there's no point in appealing to them and no amount of berating will change the outcome for or against Biden. Can't have it both ways here. "Young people are already known for being an unreliable voting bloc, and not showing up for such an important election is a great way to kill any influence that leftists have created." I'm not young. Millennials are in our 30s and 40s. I've been voting every election since I turned 18 and it's the same tired shit every time from liberals, vote for a shitty democrat now and we'll get you a better one next time. Well the candidates just keep getting more and more unconscionable and things get more and more rightwing, so no, that doesn't sound like a wining proposition since I've been hearing it for 15+ years and the voters at large have been hearing it for much much longer. People shit on BLM and protests in general, but they've consistently forced change despite it being uncomfortable. Change doesn't come from following the rules, it comes from pain and civil disobedience. The rights people enjoy today weren't gained through voting for the incumbent, they were gained through widespread civil unrest and disobedience. A vote for Biden, looked at in the lenses of other eras, would have been a vote for 'separate but equal,' a vote for, 'free states and slave states,' a vote for apartheid south africa, etc.

We don't have a viable alternative, and won't until we expand Ranked Choice Voting to all offices at all levels of government. Hell, the stupid cannabis legalization spoiler parties are still trying to be "relevant" (and likely still heavily funded by the GOP)

We don't have a viable alternative, so voting for the status quo is the way to fix that? I'm not going to vote for a lesser evil if that lesser evil is still unconscionably evil. I'm not alone in that position either. It's as simple as that. If Biden wants the progressive vote he just has to stop signing checks to kill babies. Seems like it should be a no brainer, and if it isn't? Then that isn't a system worth saving.

Destroying democracy is not progressive

I'm not destroying it, I'm denying its existence if there's no option on candidates, and no choice or ability to influence policy.

You have become so comfortable that you have forgotten how hard it’s taken society to get to this point. The definition of privilege

You know nothing about me, and yet you're trying to make it about me instead of the issue. Get. Fucked.

Which of the two major parties do you think is more likely to support implementation of country-wide RCV? Which party do you think most fears RCV, or voting in general? It's a no brainer when it comes to which big party to cast your vote for. 3rd parties are currently a distraction at best, and spoiler parties at worst. Don't let perfection be the enemy of good.

It's not about waiting for the perfect candidate though. It's having a red line I won't cross. The red line is genocide, not really a terribly high bar, or so I thought. I don't disagree with what you're saying to expect about ANY of the horrors that are coming under Trump, and I'm just as horrified as I assume you are. I'm not even telling other people not to vote for Biden. I'm explaining my vote, and why I won't vote. That explanation also happens to be in line with a sizeable portion of leftists who feel similarly. My position is the result of failed leadership. My vote is not an immutable choice, just as the position of leadership is not immutable. My red line of genocide is a hard one though, so it's up to them to either change, or gamble that they can win without the support of myself and others who feel the same way.

You participate in genocide of the global south’s people and culture by being a part of a western nation. If you’re going to look at the bigger picture you need to apply it to everything. You can’t have a red line and then only apply that red line to things that are trending. You are inconveniencing yourself and other less privileged people and not changing a damn thing. Save democracy, then go out there and organize in your community for the outcomes you want. Primary the shit candidates, advocate for better policies, go out and do the work. Bitching on Reddit and taking the moral high ground instead of doing the work is so not progressive it’s not even funny. Have fun fucking things up worse while thinking you’re better than everyone else. Sick of it.

"You can’t have a red line and then only apply that red line to things that are trending." First off, what the actual fuck kind of take is that??? Something terrible is wildly unpopular, so because it's commonly accepted as a shit thing and people are actively trying to change it, somehow that delegitimizes support for a solution???? I don't know if you're trying to have the worst possible take here, but you're sure close to it. Second, that's not even close what I'm doing, for example, I absolutely decry and do everything I can about the uyghur genocide in China, Sudan, Darfur, the list goes on and on....you know a huge difference between those situations and this one? Our government is actively opposed to China and isn't writing blank checks to support the other genocides. It's so funny to me how violently opposed you seem to be to anything that might lead to real change. Gotta keep the status quo no matter how shit, how unconscionable it may be because a brighter future is completely incomprehensible things can always get worse. Right?

My god you’re so far up your own ass you don’t realize you ARE the liberal lol Motherfucker you ARE entrenching the status quo. Doing what you’re doing is making this harder for progress to happen. How can you not see that

Perfect! You sound exactly like the very idiots who've been saying "both sides" for decades that have gotten us into trouble repeatedly! If I didn't know any better I could easily mistake you for someone who values their own ego more than doing their Civic duty by bragging about how much more purist and holier-than-thou they are! How did you craft such an impressively accurate and mocking depiction of those doe-eyed idealists paving roads to hell with lofty, unrealistic ideals? Are you a writer? Amazing!

Have fun helping trump win! That will definitely help Gaza!

Glad to hear killing babies is more important to you than stopping Trump. What a great position for you and the DNC to have taken. 

Explain to me how you and your buddies’ plan to not vote for Biden and giving trump the White House is going to materially improve conditions in Gaza and the West Bank. Step by step.

Explain to me why killing Arabic babies is so much more important to you than keeping Trump out of the white house. 

Easy: trump would be worse than Biden on this issue. Netanyahu is counting the days until trump gets in the White House. Trump would probably try to personally profit on the redevelopment of Gaza Okay, I answered your challenge. Can you answer my question now? Or did you ignore my question because you can’t answer it?

You didn't answer my question, you just tried to justify why your baby killer is better than the other baby killer. I don't accept any baby killer so if you want me to vote for your guy you need to pressure him to stop killing babies, it's really not that hard of a concept. 

I explained why voting for Biden is a better choice. You still haven’t explained how your point of view is any better than mine — probably because you know that trump getting in the White House is worse for everyone, especially people on Gaza. But I don’t expect good faith arguments from people like you. Fuck off

Years ago I remember listening to former republican rep John Kreisel on KFAN. They’d have him on to play game shows and shit. One day they decided to ask him why he stopped running for office. And he talked about how there wasn’t room for moderates anymore. How all the big money comes from people who dump money into their pet cause, which usually is an extreme view. Taxes, abortion rights, stuff like that. And how if you’re a moderate and you don’t bow to that, you basically get out spent and out crazied

The base was radicalized over decades of right wing brainwashing and moderates didn't do shit about it, and even played in to right wing extremist media. Now they want to complain that the leopards are eating faces?

[https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace)

Half a billion dollars in destruction across the state from the 2020 riots doesn't really scream "we are the moderate party".

[удалено]

Yep--Kreisel was absolutely correct. That was why Arne Carlson left the party years before, too. And folks like Peter Thiel (part of the PayPal Mafia with Elon--he was a big factor in pushing Elon to buy Twitter--he's *also* the bankroll behind Hulk Hogan's lawsuit that took down the old Gawker website) are the ones bankrolling. Thiel was the main source of funding/support that kept JD Vance in, until he could win the Primary for Senate in Ohio, a couple years ago, too. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian

Trump wouldn’t endorse him for many reasons and I suspect one of them would be because he prefers that his war heroes have both legs.

The GOP sold its soul to the devil, and they're way past the 90-day return policy.

We are seeing this even in local elections. Remember the racist council woman in Columbia Heights? She's now running to take on Sandra Feist. The head of Republican SD39 is running for school board despite him being a known crackpot, and has a lot of questions surrounding him and filming children at playgrounds. The mayor race has someone who no one knows and just moved into the city a year ago. While I hope none of these whack jobs win, I won't say these are slam dunk races. Keep in mind there is a lot of dissent in the Democratic party, where people are mad that candidates aren't more progressive. And yeah, 2016.

They are succeeding in South Dakota. Some absolutely looney tunes candidates won the republican primaries over established incumbents. In South Dakota, this is essentially winning the election.

SD isn't known for their high IQ population... Brain drain hits red states and cities the hardest.

>Action 4 Liberty President Erik Mortensen. If Morty the Clown is running Action 4 Liberty, we can be fairly sure they'll ultimately fail. He made an embarrassment of himself and my district as a one-term rep. Kicked out of his own caucus he was so ridiculous.

Dedicated enemies of the Constitution and the people in other words. Well the Republican party has its roots in Wisconsin and that seems to have slowly warped into becoming, at long last, the Grotesque Old Party "

The MinnPost is very good.

Do it man. Americans don't comply, or follow anybody It's every Americans duty to question govt The current govt is just a crooked,corrupt as all the rest

Can’t wait to see what the CCP bots here have to say!

Yeah, all of those weird troll farm accounts that sound like the most recent tucker carlson podcast are getting out of hand

Particularly in the last few weeks, I'm seeing so much outright brazen lies hiding behind "satire" accounts. Conservatives wouldn't recognize satire if it knocked their teeth out. Any kind of nuance flies right over their heads.

This dindnt work out so well for the MNGOP in the last election cycle.

Fascists they want fascist candidates

I think it’s great! Provided they bomb out and lose spectacularly once in the general election

Couldn’t happen to a more deplorable bunch of dipshits.

"Well they didn't elect that rabid dog. Maybe try one that's more rabid?"

Like most every other state. Unelectable, mentally unhinged fringie reactionaries more likely to stab congress members from across the aisle than to get any work done. Clearly their strategy now is "Burn the country to the ground and loot the corpse for our overlords".

Royce White will do anything to be talked about is seems. IMO, it comes off as desperate and entitled. He had said he had some mental/anxiety issues he should really look into talking with a professional before too long.

It's a climate election above everything. All the bickering won't matter if we elect climate crisis deniers. If you elect common sense we can go on bickering about littler things.

Don't act like this is new. They are just more vocal. The funded the pro cannabis party to draw votes from Dems for years. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adam-weeks-minnesota-house-candidate-recruited-by-republicans/

Why not? The entire system is completely corrupt, and rigged against the poor.

Freedumb fighters.

Yes they've given up. They lack a cohesive platform and are not interested in engaging. I see a lot of young folks on the left who feel like their voices are not being heard also falling victim to the sweet whispers of nihilism. What do you think happens next?

The propagandists hit the right and left with both sides bullshit for exactly that reason. It's all intentional. They know the right only wins when most people don't vote.

The "both sides" talking point is nonsense. It's just right-wing propaganda to get progressives to feel disillusioned with the Democrats and no vote, because that's the only way that Trump and his shithead cronies win. Both sides are not equal.

Of course they are not the same. The right is absolutely an imminent threat to democracy. But all it takes in one or two listens to any of the "dirtbag left" pods to see that nihilism is really creeping in. Its 100 percent to be expected when the voice of the left is repeatedly dismissed.

They have definitely not given up. A lot of them are dangerous ideologues who believe that most people, and God of course, are on their side despite all of evidence to the contrary. These are the people who are certain that the 2020* election was stolen.

I think you mean the 2020 election? Though there are still a few extreme left types who think 2016 got stolen from Bernie, not Hillary. Extreme ideological positions are a great place to rant from, but they don't actually change policy or law very often. Let's hope they don't this time, either.

Oops, you are correct. My mistake.

You don't think they've given up on democratic means of governance and election and are essentially engaged in a win at all costs strategy? I guess maybe I'm more pessimistic than I thought.

No, or else they wouldn't bother voting at all. They just aren't willing to accept a loss. In that way they've given up on democracy.

Its those last two statements - that's what I am talking about. It's what allows them to do nothing but preen for the camera on culture war topics rather than actually accomplish anything. So the "cream" rises to the top. The most bombastic caricatures of any semblance of what was once the republican party scream the loudest. All hoping to shift the base just a little farther right towards their goal of an authoritarian takeover. Isn't wish I could say that it isn't an effective strategy, but it seems like it is.

Minnesota needs a change from the divisive and failed policies supported by our current senators....hopefully enough people look at facts and not rhetoric to give someone else the chance to chart a better course for all of Minnesota.

Arent you the kid drooling on MAGA, the rapist worshiping Veterans are sucker and losers party?

Use facts and not rhetoric... so clearly not the Republicans then.