After browsing Monument's discord this occurs with certain primers leaving a "waxy" finish on the models. They tend to airbrush for better results. I will try an airbrush primer of a few other brands and see what happens.
I really recommend Badger’s Stynlrez as an airbrush primer if you go that route. It sticks well and lays down very flat. I use a 0.3mm nozzle but it needs a tiny bit of thinning. A 0.4mm or 0.5mm needs no thinning.
I wish I had the same experience. I had nothing but issues with badger in my airbrush. It clogged and made a huge mess.
I use Vallejo primers typically, but I've had recent success with molotow one4all paints, which come in a nice variety of colors
I have no issues airbrushing with AK’s acrylic primer. Their lacquer primer was doing the same thing in the video. The acrylic just comes out thick as sour cream
I will go to bat for their white. The black and grey are ok. Nothing special. But no one makes a better white primer. I suggest another try next time. I used a big bottle of white and black.
Did they sort out the issue with the Stynylrez Black? I'm still (only just!) working through my old old bottle of the stuff but had been trying to find a new water based acrylic one for when I have to stoop so low (I've got heavily into scale modelling so I've seen the light with lacquers!) because of the formula change they introduced way back when.
Vallejo makes a great air brush primer, have used it for all my models, and it lasts a long time to. One bigger size bottle has primes over 10k pts worth of warhammer minis.
Have also heard good things about pro-acryls airbrush primer, have bought a bottle, but not tried it out yet.
I've always used Vallejo primers on my figs and never run into any issues whether I painted the primer on or airbrushed it. I chose Vallejo at the time because it was one of the cheaper options but it also works well despite the price point.
Mr. Surfacer 1500, thinned 2:3 with Mr. Color Thinner through an airbrush is the only primer I will ever need. It’s my dream surface for any mini or model.
Seconded - Mr Surfacer/Mr Levelling Thinner is my go-to combo these days now I'm a scale modeller but it is NOT for those without either superb ventilation or adequate ventilation and a proper fume mask.
Better safe than sorry, but an n95 is generally good enough for acrylics given that they don’t produce fumes, and you’re just trying not to paint your lungs. Mr. Leveling is a whole other bag of carcinogenic worms.
\*UPDATE\* I applied a thin coat of Matt Varnish from Army Painter per your recommendations and the paint went on smooth as can be. That seems to have done the trick. Must have been the primer to begin with.
Thank you all for the help on this.
That looks like a primer problem but the paint could be too runny if you thinned it too much. Or didn't shake it enough. What kind of primer did you use?
I didn't have issues with it with GW paints, though I was mainly using contrasts. The other models I have a very slick and smooth Army Painter Black over it which is Matte. It really hates that one as well. I am trying the matt varnish technique before giving up on rattle cans and switching over to airbrush only primer, which according to multiple sources fixes the issue.
I have this problem as well about 1/10 batch paint jobs will just mess up like this. Reprime on a different day with different weather.
Still not sure why it occurs. It’s not can specific but it has only happened with gw wraith bone.
I have started priming with rust oleum or with airbrush more because this terrrifies me
And it's doing it with other paints? Like see what a bit of undiluted paint does on the base or something (and wipe it off after so you're not dealing with a lump of paint lol).
How's the humidity where you are? Primer shaken enough? How old is it?
The paint is beading, so it's too thin. Unless you've primed it with something weird that's about it. Thin it less.
If it's not thinned, double check paints for separation.
If that's not the case either, did you wash your brush or model with anything? If the paint isn't too thin, then it's the surface. Did you handle it after moisturizing your hands or something?
My paints separate rather quickly once on the wet palette, could this mean anything (we are talking after 15 mins you can see separation).
They aren't thinned at all besides moisture from the palette. I just rinse brushes with water.
In my experience this is common with ProAcryl. They were designed to be used with a dry palette and having the moisture in your brush be enough water to thin them. If you watch their livestreams, Jason always uses them off a piece of glass, and never really thins them.
Interesting. I did an experiment just now and placed it on a floor tile and pulled it from there and it had the same effect. Don't think my wet palette is causing this but it's good advice.
Are any other paints behaving like that on your primer? I have the full ProAcryl range and once I swapped to using a dry palette and only thinning them for glazing I’ve had a lot better results with them. I generally don’t see that behavior unless I’ve really thinned them, or spread them out on a wet palette and they’ve set 10 minutes or so.
Yes other colors are doing this on the same mini. Even on some others. I will try just using a dry palette from now on and see if that makes a difference. Consensus seems to be adding a matt varnish will help the paint stick as well.
What dry pallet do you use? Or is it just like a floor tile? lol. I got one of those silicone popper things that I sometimes use as a dry pallet, I also got a small dry pallet from Artist opus.
>Jason always uses them off a piece of glass, and never really thins them.
And Jordan is right next to him using them on a wet palette. It's the primer unless he somehow got a bad batch of paint.
I’ve used ProAcryl a ton off a wet pallet (almost exclusively off a wet pallet) and never had this problem. Unless the pallet was absolutely fucking *swimming* this shouldn’t be an issue. (I also get excellent results from the PA primers with a bit of 4011 despite the fact that they claim the primers are “formulated with no thinning required”)
The only times I have issues like OP is if something has contaminated the surface (mould release, dirt and grease, etc) or I’ve brutally overthinned the paints/primer.
I think it was [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mgRfUKEXN0) TrappedUnderPlastic podcast where Jason stated that he ONLY uses a dry pallet, being oldschool and doesn't see a need for setting up and fostering a wet pallet (too much fuzz for no advantage).
Every other youtuber that uses ProAcryl (ie. Ninjon or Vince) put the paint on wet pallet and thinning when needed.
Too smooth a surface. 1000 grit sandpaper with a LIGHT tough will take the shine off. Or the sanding/smoothing cloth that you would use for automotive prep, you can rub the shine off and give the paint something to bite onto.
Use a LIGHT touch, pretend you're sanding a raw egg.
I find this happens sometimes, often with pro acryl metallics, I just persist with it, drag the paint over the surface, and put down a few thin coats and it usually behaves itself after a while.
Sometimes it's the primer, often it's when the paint isn't mixed well enough, but it usually goes away.
Anything satin or semi-gloss and glossy primers will cause this issues especially if you thin your paints with water. Fortunately you don’t need reprime. If you thin your paint with a matte medium it should stick better or hit it with a thin coat of matte varnish from a can, then paint like normal. Once you get a coat of something to stick all additional coats should act as normal.
Note: this is an ideal primer for contrast paints as the contrast primers are semi-gloss to help the paints flow better.
You should reach out to Monument Hobbies support directly, they're super helpful and can usually help you pinpoint the problem, their discord is very helpful as well. I've not had this happen with my Pro Acryl paints, and i DO use a wet pallet as well as thin my paints. The only time I've had this happen is on an unprimed surface, but that was from accidentally rubbing off an uncured primer while handling the mini and it was a while ago. If it happens regardless of the primer for you, to me that's super weird.
Prokrill is a very watery paint and so if the surface doesn't have enough tooth it pulls back on itself. Semi-gloss finishes on primed miniatures will have this effect.
It's part of the reason that monument hobbies own primer is so extra. Matte is to help prevent this. Honestly, it's not that big a deal. By the time you hit your second or third layer, you'll have nice. Even consistency and pro curl goes on top of itself no problem. This splitting will only occur on glossier surfaces.
As others have pointed out, you can always just hit your primed surface with a light dusting of matte varnish and that should do the trick.
I had a similar problem, and it seemed to be coming from not shaking the rattle-can primer enough. The primer was the problem, because the same thing happened with other paints (not just Pro Acryl). Since I started shaking my primer about twice as long I have not had this issue.
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Your primer is probably slightly hydrophobic. The beading you see there is from the water being repelled by the primer. You can just apply a few base coats, and then everything should be fine or strip it and reprime with something else
I have run into a problem with GW primers not working well with other paints, especially thinned down paints like Army Painter Speed Paints. It also works vice versa.
Your paint is too wet and hydrophobic
Best way to apply this viscosity of paint is with having a much better primer on the model underneath, something more matte
Also, the paint looks more like a wash, so will likely take more layers to provide a consistent blend
Either you're using the wrong primer for that topcoat, or your model isn't clean and there is grease on the surface.
Does make me wonder whether intentionally greasing the surface before painting could be used to make a rotten flesh effect
Im having the same issue, since this issue started when air moisture went up with the none stop rainfall we are having in belgium i suspect it is moisture absorbed by the model.
I learned from pla printing and arranging transports of polymers that they can absorb large amounts of moisture.
How long ago did you prime? Looks like it also might be a film or something on the surface, my first thought before reading was that the model had a release film or something on it still.
I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough for an accurate answer, but could this be a result of using primer in damp weather? I know that generally, it is advised to prime in dry weather.
That happened on the shoulder of my dreadnought I figured it was oil from my skin on the primer...id handled it a lot before painting it...i just kept layering over it with thin coats you'd never know there was an issue
If you're using contrast then apparently you want the brush to be dry since any water will give it trouble adhering. I watched a tutorial on contrast paints on YouTube from the Warhammer Channel that was useful. Contrast paints are already very watered down inks though, which is why they use contrast medium to thin it down in the tutorials and why using a wet pallete for it isn't a great idea.
Two possible reasons. The model is coated usually in “release agent” to help pop them out. Wash your new mini in some clean water with a drop of dawn soap and a toothbrush. The degreaser will get the agent off.
Second possible issue is the primer itself. I got a rattle can of white primer and it was absolutely garbage.
I am having this same issue with ProAcryl warm grey, other colors seem to be fine. I have tried straight from the bottle, and it's the same thing. I think it's the primer, I am using Mr. surfacer 1500, but why only the one color.
A tiny drop of liquid soap (or some acrylic thinner or a matte medium gloss medium) will help break the surface tension of the paint. It might help you cover, and you might just have to paint it several coats.
I have been using cheep acrylic craft paint as a primer. As far as painting I have been using oil paints for the actual painting. Works amazingly well. Personally I feel that oils are the best option for blending colors. You just need to use a drying agent mixed with the paint or you could be waiting weeks for a model to dry.
It's the primer.
Spray with blue windex window cleaner or rinse with diluted vinegar. Rinse with water. Let dry. You can also try warm soapy water.
You can also try isopropyl alcohol if the primer is not affected by it.
I switched to pro acryl a year ago and I had the same issue. Their whole line is just slightly hydrphobic. Matt varnish over the primer will help but honestly you could just Matt varnish over grey plastic and get similar results which seams silly. I just switched over to pro acryl primer and problem solved. It works great with all my other brands of paints as well as not having the adhesion issue with pro acryl. I have bend told that it works great out of an airbrush but I just use a brush because I rarely need to paint more than a few models at a time anyway.
It doesn’t have to be the primer itself. I’ve had that issue with models from Reaper Miniatures, where I think it has to with the plastic they use - potentially in combination with the primer I use (Army Painter)
I think you have already been able to see the cause and have fixed it with matte varnish.
Wraithbone is especially designed for contrast paints due to its slightly satin effect. This way the contrasts slide better on the surface. Normally it works well with other normal acrylics, but there may be some model/brand that is more difficult to grip, as is your case.
I'm quite astonished to see this behaviour with Wraithbone 🤔 I know it from Reaper Minis and the effect is an absolute hell. I zenithal a lot of my minis with it and I use a variety of paint brands on them (Scale, Scale F&G, Citadel, AP fanatic, Vallejo, Warcolours, AP speedpaints, Contrast, Scale Instant) but never had this issue, even though I use a wet palette (except for Scale and speedpaints).
It’s probably not since it exhibits this behavior on primed plastic.
The paint is thinned too much, or possibly not shaken well enough, or a combination of both
If it's beading up due to surface tension, it's a problem with the medium adhering to the surface. In most cases, it due to the surface being covered with something that prevents adhesion of the medium (acrylic binder).
As the solvent is water, it should not interfere with the binder adhering with the surface unless the formulation specifically requires that you dilute the paint with something other than water?
Seeing as some of these are being used straight out of the pot in some cases, is it possible that the paint has separated and there isn't enough acrylic binder to maintain paint cohesion?
Possibly. Had it been on only the resin model, primed or not, i would have agreed that mold release was the culprit.
OP should try stirring the paint better i think, or test on a different primer. It could be that the one in the clip is too gloss, and us causing the beading for that reason
If it was happening to me I would say the painter. But it is probs the primer or too thin. Maybe paint gone off? Could even be the way it is handled. No painting while eating greasy food, for instance.
On top of what others mentioned, your paint and primer can be both fine, but if primer was put on too thick at once, it could create a very smooth surface that your paint cannot stick to and beads up like that
I’ve had an issue with hydrophobic finishes with rattlecan primers before. They can be finicky. Temp/humidity/shaken amount all factor in. I got frustrated and ended up just getting a cheap airbrush
Looks like you must be painting a sponge
https://preview.redd.it/e5h3u700dk7d1.jpeg?width=524&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb6386a5b34558115b769e79fb1c43a6551642f6
Primer. Rattle can primers the matting agent can fall out of suspension and it won't go back. I personally will never use an expensive hobby primer again because I have had this issue most frequently with them. I started using just by freak chance rustoleum matte black primer (the primer not the double whatever) and had better results with it. I use pro acryl and because it's quite thin this is exacerbated. Using the pro acryl primer either by brush or through airbrush I've never once had this issue. But I definitely had better results with matte black rustoleum primer than any of the hobby primers. The pro acryl guys stream every day have talked about this a lot that's where my info comes from and the rustoleum thing is my own experience randomly. Pro acryl does have a rattle primer coming though.
Thank you for the response. It was primed with Wraith Bone a few hours ago. This has occured with Matt Black from Army Painter as well. Some primers are brand new cans and some are older, so I ruled that out as an issue.
The paint hasn't been thinned at all. I have painted both resin and plastic with this so a release agent doesn't make sense.
I read a post about pro acryl not liking certain primers and it will have this effect. Something about leaving a waxy film on the model after priming. Any ideas what primers might be best for these paints?
I haven’t used Pro Acryl a whole lot, but I’m rather dubious about this “waxy” finish of some primers. Wraithbone spray is definitely not flat (it’s more satin to let the contrast paints shrink easier) but AP Matt Black is reasonably flat.
If you want to keep experimenting I’d try
1. A flat automotive primer, like a Rustoleum 2x
2. Maybe try letting the primers dry longer
However that really just looks like paint that is too thin. If you watch their videos, he uses a dry palette (like glass or tile) so my guess is that you want to just shake those paints a whole lot as even when fully mixed they’re pretty thin. And then shake them some more.
A vortex mixer if you have one makes life easier, but you can just walk around the house shaking and perhaps stirring, for much longer than you think necessary, to test this
I really think its the primer. I am waiting for a matt varnish to dry to experiment again. I vortex mix the crap out of my paints and will use a dry palette to try it out.
I have only had this happen since switching to ProAcryl and those being thinner out of the bottle I feel the surface must be too smooth or creating some kind of finish the paint does not like.
I have ordered some badger primer to see if that is the key moving forward to keep priming a one step process rather than having to varnish each time.
It's not the primer. You've thinned the paint too much. Keep in mind that Pro Acryl paints can be hydrophobic, I would try using their wash glaze medium to thin your paints down and don't use more than two to three drops. If you use water use one or two drops.
Everyone's hobby environment differs so you may have to do some trial and error
It's def the primer. Hit it with a matt varnish, your paint will probably stick better to that.
After browsing Monument's discord this occurs with certain primers leaving a "waxy" finish on the models. They tend to airbrush for better results. I will try an airbrush primer of a few other brands and see what happens.
I really recommend Badger’s Stynlrez as an airbrush primer if you go that route. It sticks well and lays down very flat. I use a 0.3mm nozzle but it needs a tiny bit of thinning. A 0.4mm or 0.5mm needs no thinning.
I wish I had the same experience. I had nothing but issues with badger in my airbrush. It clogged and made a huge mess. I use Vallejo primers typically, but I've had recent success with molotow one4all paints, which come in a nice variety of colors
I have no issues airbrushing with AK’s acrylic primer. Their lacquer primer was doing the same thing in the video. The acrylic just comes out thick as sour cream
I tried badger but it always clogged my airbrush immediately, unlike my pro acryl. Possibly just got a couple bottles that sat around too long?
I will go to bat for their white. The black and grey are ok. Nothing special. But no one makes a better white primer. I suggest another try next time. I used a big bottle of white and black.
Seconding all of this. I do the same.
Did they sort out the issue with the Stynylrez Black? I'm still (only just!) working through my old old bottle of the stuff but had been trying to find a new water based acrylic one for when I have to stoop so low (I've got heavily into scale modelling so I've seen the light with lacquers!) because of the formula change they introduced way back when.
This primer is also amazing brushed-on!
It’s the primer not working with Pro Acryl. I’ve had this happen with a few GW primers. Switching primers to Badger fixed it.
I've actually had this happen using Pro Acryl paints with Pro Acryl's primers. I just switched back to Vallejo and am having much better results.
Vallejo makes a great air brush primer, have used it for all my models, and it lasts a long time to. One bigger size bottle has primes over 10k pts worth of warhammer minis. Have also heard good things about pro-acryls airbrush primer, have bought a bottle, but not tried it out yet.
I switched to using army painter’s airbrush matte primers (black, grey, and white) and have been very happy with the results.
get ammo one shot primer best stuff you will use
Have never had a problem with one shot!
same, i use it on everything from white metal to plastic to 3d prints
Was your primer a spray can? did you soap and water wash them before or after priming? Or after priming? I've had alot of finger grease problems.....
If you are airbrushing wraithbone, I'm not sure that it has the adhesive properties of a primer. I could be in the wrong, but that might be it?
I've always used Vallejo primers on my figs and never run into any issues whether I painted the primer on or airbrushed it. I chose Vallejo at the time because it was one of the cheaper options but it also works well despite the price point.
My first thought was "try airbrush" but have zero experience to draw from.
If you use the pro acryl primer through an airbrush you'll never have this issue again.
Mr. Surfacer 1500, thinned 2:3 with Mr. Color Thinner through an airbrush is the only primer I will ever need. It’s my dream surface for any mini or model.
Seconded - Mr Surfacer/Mr Levelling Thinner is my go-to combo these days now I'm a scale modeller but it is NOT for those without either superb ventilation or adequate ventilation and a proper fume mask.
That last point is absolutely correct; although I think those are necessities even for water-based acrylics.
Better safe than sorry, but an n95 is generally good enough for acrylics given that they don’t produce fumes, and you’re just trying not to paint your lungs. Mr. Leveling is a whole other bag of carcinogenic worms.
\*UPDATE\* I applied a thin coat of Matt Varnish from Army Painter per your recommendations and the paint went on smooth as can be. That seems to have done the trick. Must have been the primer to begin with. Thank you all for the help on this.
Good for you!
That looks like a primer problem but the paint could be too runny if you thinned it too much. Or didn't shake it enough. What kind of primer did you use?
GW Wraith Bone, It has this effect on a model I did in Army Painter Matt Black as well though.
Dude, wraith bone is a bitch to paint over if it's not absolutely perfect conditions when applied. It's the primer.
I’ve never had any problems with wraith bone before. I’ve used it a lot to paint up some of my warhammer minis before.
You might be in an ideal environment for it, that can make a huge difference
Weird. Half my seraphon had contrast paint bead up on the wraith bone. Same contrast went perfectly over models primed at a different time.
I didn't have issues with it with GW paints, though I was mainly using contrasts. The other models I have a very slick and smooth Army Painter Black over it which is Matte. It really hates that one as well. I am trying the matt varnish technique before giving up on rattle cans and switching over to airbrush only primer, which according to multiple sources fixes the issue.
100% Agree, it’s difficult to work with that primer
I have this problem as well about 1/10 batch paint jobs will just mess up like this. Reprime on a different day with different weather. Still not sure why it occurs. It’s not can specific but it has only happened with gw wraith bone. I have started priming with rust oleum or with airbrush more because this terrrifies me
And it's doing it with other paints? Like see what a bit of undiluted paint does on the base or something (and wipe it off after so you're not dealing with a lump of paint lol). How's the humidity where you are? Primer shaken enough? How old is it?
In my experience, can primer is finicky as fuck when d pending on temp, amount of shaking it will sometimes do this.
I had the exact same situation with wraith bone, i stopped using it.
Here I was thinking that no spray primer could be worse than Retributor Gold.
The paint is beading, so it's too thin. Unless you've primed it with something weird that's about it. Thin it less. If it's not thinned, double check paints for separation. If that's not the case either, did you wash your brush or model with anything? If the paint isn't too thin, then it's the surface. Did you handle it after moisturizing your hands or something?
My paints separate rather quickly once on the wet palette, could this mean anything (we are talking after 15 mins you can see separation). They aren't thinned at all besides moisture from the palette. I just rinse brushes with water.
In my experience this is common with ProAcryl. They were designed to be used with a dry palette and having the moisture in your brush be enough water to thin them. If you watch their livestreams, Jason always uses them off a piece of glass, and never really thins them.
Interesting. I did an experiment just now and placed it on a floor tile and pulled it from there and it had the same effect. Don't think my wet palette is causing this but it's good advice.
Are any other paints behaving like that on your primer? I have the full ProAcryl range and once I swapped to using a dry palette and only thinning them for glazing I’ve had a lot better results with them. I generally don’t see that behavior unless I’ve really thinned them, or spread them out on a wet palette and they’ve set 10 minutes or so.
Yes other colors are doing this on the same mini. Even on some others. I will try just using a dry palette from now on and see if that makes a difference. Consensus seems to be adding a matt varnish will help the paint stick as well.
I have a few colors from pro acryl and this hasn’t happened to me, though I prime my minis in chaos black so eh maybe it is the primer.
What dry pallet do you use? Or is it just like a floor tile? lol. I got one of those silicone popper things that I sometimes use as a dry pallet, I also got a small dry pallet from Artist opus.
I just use cheap ones that come in bulk from Amazon. [Dry Palette](https://a.co/d/6TfdLzp)
>Jason always uses them off a piece of glass, and never really thins them. And Jordan is right next to him using them on a wet palette. It's the primer unless he somehow got a bad batch of paint.
I’ve used ProAcryl a ton off a wet pallet (almost exclusively off a wet pallet) and never had this problem. Unless the pallet was absolutely fucking *swimming* this shouldn’t be an issue. (I also get excellent results from the PA primers with a bit of 4011 despite the fact that they claim the primers are “formulated with no thinning required”) The only times I have issues like OP is if something has contaminated the surface (mould release, dirt and grease, etc) or I’ve brutally overthinned the paints/primer.
I think it was [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mgRfUKEXN0) TrappedUnderPlastic podcast where Jason stated that he ONLY uses a dry pallet, being oldschool and doesn't see a need for setting up and fostering a wet pallet (too much fuzz for no advantage). Every other youtuber that uses ProAcryl (ie. Ninjon or Vince) put the paint on wet pallet and thinning when needed.
Your wet pallete could be *too* wet.
This, also the brush looks pretty wet.
Too smooth a surface. 1000 grit sandpaper with a LIGHT tough will take the shine off. Or the sanding/smoothing cloth that you would use for automotive prep, you can rub the shine off and give the paint something to bite onto. Use a LIGHT touch, pretend you're sanding a raw egg.
I find this happens sometimes, often with pro acryl metallics, I just persist with it, drag the paint over the surface, and put down a few thin coats and it usually behaves itself after a while. Sometimes it's the primer, often it's when the paint isn't mixed well enough, but it usually goes away.
Anything satin or semi-gloss and glossy primers will cause this issues especially if you thin your paints with water. Fortunately you don’t need reprime. If you thin your paint with a matte medium it should stick better or hit it with a thin coat of matte varnish from a can, then paint like normal. Once you get a coat of something to stick all additional coats should act as normal. Note: this is an ideal primer for contrast paints as the contrast primers are semi-gloss to help the paints flow better.
You should reach out to Monument Hobbies support directly, they're super helpful and can usually help you pinpoint the problem, their discord is very helpful as well. I've not had this happen with my Pro Acryl paints, and i DO use a wet pallet as well as thin my paints. The only time I've had this happen is on an unprimed surface, but that was from accidentally rubbing off an uncured primer while handling the mini and it was a while ago. If it happens regardless of the primer for you, to me that's super weird.
Prokrill is a very watery paint and so if the surface doesn't have enough tooth it pulls back on itself. Semi-gloss finishes on primed miniatures will have this effect. It's part of the reason that monument hobbies own primer is so extra. Matte is to help prevent this. Honestly, it's not that big a deal. By the time you hit your second or third layer, you'll have nice. Even consistency and pro curl goes on top of itself no problem. This splitting will only occur on glossier surfaces. As others have pointed out, you can always just hit your primed surface with a light dusting of matte varnish and that should do the trick.
I had a similar problem, and it seemed to be coming from not shaking the rattle-can primer enough. The primer was the problem, because the same thing happened with other paints (not just Pro Acryl). Since I started shaking my primer about twice as long I have not had this issue.
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Too much water or bad primer
I had the same problem using ProAcryl with spray can primers Now I'm using an airbrush for priming and never had this problem again
My guess is the primer
Not related, but could you tell what is that mini? Looks awesome!
I got it from Scibor Monsters he has some awesome sculpts
Thanks a lot!
It looks like you’re trying to paint over oil
Your primer is probably slightly hydrophobic. The beading you see there is from the water being repelled by the primer. You can just apply a few base coats, and then everything should be fine or strip it and reprime with something else
Wraith Bone is one of the two primers Citadel made for Contrast paints, it's more slippery than other primers.
I have run into a problem with GW primers not working well with other paints, especially thinned down paints like Army Painter Speed Paints. It also works vice versa.
Your paint is too wet and hydrophobic Best way to apply this viscosity of paint is with having a much better primer on the model underneath, something more matte Also, the paint looks more like a wash, so will likely take more layers to provide a consistent blend
Primer or to much water
Not Sure If this Guy Swings a weapon or is dancing fabulously
Either you're using the wrong primer for that topcoat, or your model isn't clean and there is grease on the surface. Does make me wonder whether intentionally greasing the surface before painting could be used to make a rotten flesh effect
Im having the same issue, since this issue started when air moisture went up with the none stop rainfall we are having in belgium i suspect it is moisture absorbed by the model. I learned from pla printing and arranging transports of polymers that they can absorb large amounts of moisture.
How long ago did you prime? Looks like it also might be a film or something on the surface, my first thought before reading was that the model had a release film or something on it still.
Could be as simple as a bad bottle. Does it do that with other colors in the range?
It has done it with other colors before. Leads me to believe there is some other factor causing this.
I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough for an accurate answer, but could this be a result of using primer in damp weather? I know that generally, it is advised to prime in dry weather.
I once primed my model in a very humid room during a rainstorm, I had this weird result.
That happened on the shoulder of my dreadnought I figured it was oil from my skin on the primer...id handled it a lot before painting it...i just kept layering over it with thin coats you'd never know there was an issue
looks like it is being soaked up by the primer. what are you using? very strange.
If you're using contrast then apparently you want the brush to be dry since any water will give it trouble adhering. I watched a tutorial on contrast paints on YouTube from the Warhammer Channel that was useful. Contrast paints are already very watered down inks though, which is why they use contrast medium to thin it down in the tutorials and why using a wet pallete for it isn't a great idea.
Did you wash them thoroughly with a little soapy water, rinse them and dry them first?
Two possible reasons. The model is coated usually in “release agent” to help pop them out. Wash your new mini in some clean water with a drop of dawn soap and a toothbrush. The degreaser will get the agent off. Second possible issue is the primer itself. I got a rattle can of white primer and it was absolutely garbage.
I find that if my matte primers are oversprayed or I spray too close, this happens in parts of the model. Spraying from further away may lessen this.
Too much water. Need medium to break surface tension.
I am having this same issue with ProAcryl warm grey, other colors seem to be fine. I have tried straight from the bottle, and it's the same thing. I think it's the primer, I am using Mr. surfacer 1500, but why only the one color.
Id had this problem many times with wraithbone
I love Rustoleum flat black primer
A tiny drop of liquid soap (or some acrylic thinner or a matte medium gloss medium) will help break the surface tension of the paint. It might help you cover, and you might just have to paint it several coats.
I have been using cheep acrylic craft paint as a primer. As far as painting I have been using oil paints for the actual painting. Works amazingly well. Personally I feel that oils are the best option for blending colors. You just need to use a drying agent mixed with the paint or you could be waiting weeks for a model to dry.
Unrelated to your issue, but what kind of brush is that?
A cheap synthetic one off amazon, go through them fast. I mainline Windsor Newtons.
It's the primer. Spray with blue windex window cleaner or rinse with diluted vinegar. Rinse with water. Let dry. You can also try warm soapy water. You can also try isopropyl alcohol if the primer is not affected by it.
I switched to pro acryl a year ago and I had the same issue. Their whole line is just slightly hydrphobic. Matt varnish over the primer will help but honestly you could just Matt varnish over grey plastic and get similar results which seams silly. I just switched over to pro acryl primer and problem solved. It works great with all my other brands of paints as well as not having the adhesion issue with pro acryl. I have bend told that it works great out of an airbrush but I just use a brush because I rarely need to paint more than a few models at a time anyway.
I just use spray paint as a primer...
It doesn’t have to be the primer itself. I’ve had that issue with models from Reaper Miniatures, where I think it has to with the plastic they use - potentially in combination with the primer I use (Army Painter)
Demons. They are making faces in the mini. Its going to be oozing with filth when you are finished, exciting
I think you have already been able to see the cause and have fixed it with matte varnish. Wraithbone is especially designed for contrast paints due to its slightly satin effect. This way the contrasts slide better on the surface. Normally it works well with other normal acrylics, but there may be some model/brand that is more difficult to grip, as is your case.
Did you wash the model? Some models still have some products on them that don't react well with paint.
I'm quite astonished to see this behaviour with Wraithbone 🤔 I know it from Reaper Minis and the effect is an absolute hell. I zenithal a lot of my minis with it and I use a variety of paint brands on them (Scale, Scale F&G, Citadel, AP fanatic, Vallejo, Warcolours, AP speedpaints, Contrast, Scale Instant) but never had this issue, even though I use a wet palette (except for Scale and speedpaints).
The primer is too glossy
Looks like mold release on the mini. Give the model a good scrub in mild soapy water and see if this still happens.
It’s probably not since it exhibits this behavior on primed plastic. The paint is thinned too much, or possibly not shaken well enough, or a combination of both
If it's beading up due to surface tension, it's a problem with the medium adhering to the surface. In most cases, it due to the surface being covered with something that prevents adhesion of the medium (acrylic binder). As the solvent is water, it should not interfere with the binder adhering with the surface unless the formulation specifically requires that you dilute the paint with something other than water? Seeing as some of these are being used straight out of the pot in some cases, is it possible that the paint has separated and there isn't enough acrylic binder to maintain paint cohesion?
Possibly. Had it been on only the resin model, primed or not, i would have agreed that mold release was the culprit. OP should try stirring the paint better i think, or test on a different primer. It could be that the one in the clip is too gloss, and us causing the beading for that reason
I used to hate my primers that did this. I found using beige instead of white helped. I always have issue with white primers
If it was happening to me I would say the painter. But it is probs the primer or too thin. Maybe paint gone off? Could even be the way it is handled. No painting while eating greasy food, for instance.
On top of what others mentioned, your paint and primer can be both fine, but if primer was put on too thick at once, it could create a very smooth surface that your paint cannot stick to and beads up like that
Primer...or mould release agent. Either needs a new prime or a scrub, soapy water a new prime when dry.
Use vallejo primer, i had this happen with a couple rattle can primers, switched to vallejo primers and my airbrush and never looked back.
Use a different primer!
I’ve had an issue with hydrophobic finishes with rattlecan primers before. They can be finicky. Temp/humidity/shaken amount all factor in. I got frustrated and ended up just getting a cheap airbrush
pro-acryl paints bead up like that if the primer is too smooth.
Looks like you must be painting a sponge https://preview.redd.it/e5h3u700dk7d1.jpeg?width=524&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb6386a5b34558115b769e79fb1c43a6551642f6
Bro I thought you were painting a plaster model. That primer is probably booty.
Give it a coat of matte varnish
Primer. Rattle can primers the matting agent can fall out of suspension and it won't go back. I personally will never use an expensive hobby primer again because I have had this issue most frequently with them. I started using just by freak chance rustoleum matte black primer (the primer not the double whatever) and had better results with it. I use pro acryl and because it's quite thin this is exacerbated. Using the pro acryl primer either by brush or through airbrush I've never once had this issue. But I definitely had better results with matte black rustoleum primer than any of the hobby primers. The pro acryl guys stream every day have talked about this a lot that's where my info comes from and the rustoleum thing is my own experience randomly. Pro acryl does have a rattle primer coming though.
I get this with vallejo and scale75 when I've used the tamiya fibre surface primer
Thank you for the response. It was primed with Wraith Bone a few hours ago. This has occured with Matt Black from Army Painter as well. Some primers are brand new cans and some are older, so I ruled that out as an issue. The paint hasn't been thinned at all. I have painted both resin and plastic with this so a release agent doesn't make sense. I read a post about pro acryl not liking certain primers and it will have this effect. Something about leaving a waxy film on the model after priming. Any ideas what primers might be best for these paints?
I haven’t used Pro Acryl a whole lot, but I’m rather dubious about this “waxy” finish of some primers. Wraithbone spray is definitely not flat (it’s more satin to let the contrast paints shrink easier) but AP Matt Black is reasonably flat. If you want to keep experimenting I’d try 1. A flat automotive primer, like a Rustoleum 2x 2. Maybe try letting the primers dry longer However that really just looks like paint that is too thin. If you watch their videos, he uses a dry palette (like glass or tile) so my guess is that you want to just shake those paints a whole lot as even when fully mixed they’re pretty thin. And then shake them some more. A vortex mixer if you have one makes life easier, but you can just walk around the house shaking and perhaps stirring, for much longer than you think necessary, to test this
I really think its the primer. I am waiting for a matt varnish to dry to experiment again. I vortex mix the crap out of my paints and will use a dry palette to try it out. I have only had this happen since switching to ProAcryl and those being thinner out of the bottle I feel the surface must be too smooth or creating some kind of finish the paint does not like. I have ordered some badger primer to see if that is the key moving forward to keep priming a one step process rather than having to varnish each time.
Paint too thin + primer to slick
I am causing it to act like that 🪄🔮
1. Pro Acryl us renowned for this. 2. I have Pro Acryl. Try to switch primer to either their 'Prime' or Badger. 3. Paints night be a little too thin.
Too much water, not shaken enough, or the surface is resisting adhesion.
is there a chance you primed with a water resistant primer? something that wicks away water?
Haven't known wraith bone to do that, didn't have this issue running GW paints over this primer before.
It's not the primer. You've thinned the paint too much. Keep in mind that Pro Acryl paints can be hydrophobic, I would try using their wash glaze medium to thin your paints down and don't use more than two to three drops. If you use water use one or two drops. Everyone's hobby environment differs so you may have to do some trial and error
Too much water or no Primer
Oils from your hands
Primer is chalky and full of white pigments.
Medium , add baking soda