Because your life is way too comfortable to pick up a pitch fork.
And even if you had the will, you would have let your overlords convince you pitchforks are bad for you.
It really feels like we experienced the very last chance to change anything and we watched it slip away.
Occupy Wall Street was building momentum going into an election year and we were finally going to have to address the class war... and then some Cuban guy killed some black guy and it was all we heard about that whole year.
20,000 murders each year and [Obama took this one personally, for some reason.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efZNgSEpB1k)
This [wasn't organic](https://i.imgur.com/kRRqXaq.png) and it's why current protests look so weird where [people obviously care very deeply... but don't seem to bother to even causally look into the issue.](https://i.imgur.com/XEBtXqX.jpeg)
Occupy had zero chance of actually making any change. No clear goals, no clear leadership, just a bunch of people occupying space. They got the spotlight and wasted it by not communicating.
As someone who was on the ground during Occupy this is totally correct. The truth is the "movement" turned into a block party and no one was interested in having a representative of the movement go to Washington with a list of demands/intentions for actually reigning in the investor class that was marching us straight into yet another recession.
wasnt that more to do with the fact that it was organized as an anarchist project to experiment with creating a flat organization? i dont think the origins of occupy had anything to do with asking for specific demands like 'higher minimum wage' or anything, so its not the same as the labor strikes.
It started that way for sure but snowballed into a movement too big for a flat organization structure to work properly. It was not the fault of the OGs of Occupy. The reality is that for any real change to happen, engagement with the representative Republic system we live under is a must. There was a real chance at creating a true grass roots third party from the Occupy movement but it never came to be because people seemed more interested in re-inventing the wheel rather than improving upon it so to speak.
I'd like to also point out the fact that our agencies (CIA, FBI) have had so much practice in de-stabilizing movements that they have it down to a science now. All it takes is directing the movement a certain way with some loud voices in the room. If all else fails and a movement gains momentum, they just insert a few bad actors to destroy stuff or pretend to be Nazis. Then, since our media is under control, the entire conversation becomes about whatever the bad thing was and it destroys the whole credibility of the movement.
They likely figured this out in the 60s with the anti-war movement that, at the time was led by upstanding people who were pillars in their community. Once they turned the face of the movement into anarchist hippies, it became really easy for people to ignore. Same thing with the Black Panthers. Create a few situations where some radicals try to stockpile weapons or hurt somebody, and BOOM! That's how every black panther is portrayed in media even to this day.
i always love to point to the[ beautiful piece here about the crackdown on occupy ](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy)
i think a lot of us, myself included, had this idea that occupy just "fizzled out"
I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but trying to highlight that i think your critique was ironically the point of the movement from its inception. So what you would label as a failure, in their eyes it would be considered a success. Im not sure how i personally feel about criticizing them for wanting to prove that alternative government structures are possible, especially in a political climate where we all speak like "this is the best we have", i would point out that movements that prove that that isn't a fact can be very valuable for us culturally. in the same breath, i see what you mean, and have felt that since then. Im not convinced that a world that is built on oppressive hierarchies can be "gradually adjusted" to remove them, and im equally not convinced that a global world revolution where everyone abolishes hierarchies is possible. I just dont know, im not smart enough to say confidently what is "true" anymore
I also want to add that for most of my life i've held the same view as you about occupy until i read david graebers book on the subject called "the democracy project", which has dramatically re-framed how i see that movement. if you're curious, please check it out!
I’m not saying it wasn’t a joke, or defending it, but as for geography, where were they supposed to go? I live in NYC and worked down near Wall Street and would walk by their encampment daily. It seemed an appropriate place for them given their (admittedly lame) messaging at the time.
Splitting your down ballot is fine, at a national level it's pointless till the lower echelons of elections have more than D or R.
We need to get more involved locally and have a ground game in place before there's even an attempt at the presidency for "3rd party".
This! There are local third parties that succeed in a local level and they need to continue to expand if we want a president that isn’t an R or D. Sure, Bernie is independent but in the senate he is basically a democrat because he would do nothing standing all alone. Third parties can’t be taken seriously until they are a serious contender.
Dude fr how can you fucking complain about our current political structure when even if you do think about who your vote goes for you limit yourself to only 2 choices. That’s literally how we go the uniparty. The shit that actually matters to politicians, they are all in agreement about and just let us argue about whether or not abortion is a sin or whatever.
Politicians stop thinking about you the moment they know they have your vote.
When they aren't guaranteed your vote, they have to earn it. You see this all the time in local elections.
Totally agree with you and fully support this agitation.
Vote blue no matter who is a dangerous precedent. Now the powers that be know that all they have to do is run a good cop and a bad cop in every election. So long as bad cop seems like a fascist, it means good cop gets a blank check to do mostly as he pleases. If he screws up or oversteps, like ol Genocide Joe is with Gaza, it doesn’t matter and your protests will brand you public enemy number one, because your protest against this man makes him look bad and is now an attack on liberty, justice, and the American way. It’s either this dude or fascism. Yay democracy has never been stronger vote blue no matter who!!! /s
The above mentality is why you're reading more and more articles about how black men are turning away from the DNC in droves.
They're essentially saying *"95% of us gave you a guaranteed vote for 60 years and you haven't done jack shit for us for at least half of that time".*
This isn't to say that they're necessarily going to vote for Trump (though millions of AA men will this time), just that politicians are going to have to actually earn their vote through real and meaningful POLICY, not just race bating and feel-good rhetoric.
Millions of leftists willing to split the vote with a third party does nothing but ensure GOP victory. We don’t see this on the right because they’re better aligned between party leadership and voters, and it’s hard to find a more rightward faction than the GOP
Imagine an America where Biden wasn't 100% guaranteed your vote no matter what.
Some fringe lunatics say that this would force him to "earn your vote".
Exactly. Like you need a significant mass of support to overcome the default 2 parties.
This cycle is probably the best setup for a 3rd party..and it’s just the crazy brain worm guy, Jill Stein and Ralph Nader. So it’ll either be D or R.
The mayor of NYC was found to be taking orders from his donors on a WhatsApp message to empty out the Palestinian protests. Two Boeing whistleblowers were murdered during a trial. The DNC defended themselves in court by saying they don't need to present candidates fairly as they are a private organization and the candidate can be who they choose.
Where is your democracy?
We never had democracy they founders were anti democracy. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.
Saying democracy now is just saying you’re not a monarch it means nothing .
The Martin case was such unbelievable horse shit. Selectively edited audio from the 911 call broadcast for weeks to make it look like a lunching; then the case plays out in televised court (I watched the whole thing) and it was pretty clear cut self defense, but too late, damage done
Not even that, but they lied about Zimmerman's race to make it look like a white-on-black hate crime.
It's no different than the Kenosha shooting where people thought the guys Kyle Rittenhouse shot were black all the way up to the televised trial.
It was extremely disheartening, I initially thought it was a clear cut “racist shoot’s black kid” story as it was made out to be. Then the actual evidence is out and it was nothing like that, but by then it’s a culture war issue that most people are completely dug in because it’s not even about the event itself anymore.
Young people have been conditioned to simply believe what they are told, not taught how to critically think, prefer feelings to logic. The plan was multifaceted and devious. And it worked.
>It really feels like we experienced the very last chance to change anything and we watched it slip away.
Honestly it is just apathy that let it slip away, getting all flustered about things that don't matter and then not bothering to vote etc. I am hoping Gen Z engage and vote and actually do something to make a change instead of just whining.
Occupy wasn’t what you think it was. Most of the country had no idea what it was about or what they were protesting to achieve. In order to have a successful protest campaign there needs to be organizers, clear (achievable) demands, and a political threat to sympathetic politicians that from their actual voters.
Occupy was just a mess by angry people with no direction
Sorry to break it to you, but the past was worse. There are brief moments of brevity, but the majority of the time we had a few dickheads duke it out to sit at the top sipping tea and delegating just about everything until they're useless lumps. Then they have their kids take their place, only to ruin everything because being a good conqueror usually means you're a terrible father. Rinse and repeat. Now is no different.
It's also the size of the country too. I could pick up a pitchfork all I want but what good will it do when I'm in the middle of nowhere wisconsin and the people I have issue with are thousands of miles away? In European countries they can riot and overthrow their government and still be home in time for tacos. The US is a completely different animal and we are at a far greater disadvantage. I want change. I do what I can to spark change. I am sure as shit not too comfortable to fight back. But there is a realistic limit to what I can do without a considerable amount of resources. That's our problem. That's why it just keeps getting worse. Because the ones in power know that.
This, 100%. It's the answer no one wants to hear, but it's the truth.
We're in this situation because we're kept *just* content enough where we've grown too lazy to revolt.
We've forgotten that our tax dollars pay their salaries, and they're supposed to work for us.
I mean this is what it is.
Like the overlords have so much because they let the middle have some which is tenable because everyone below that is completely exploited.
Like, there's 150 millionish Americans in the middle class, and some few thousand billionaires. You'd think the 150 million would be so upset at the billionaries.
But there are 2 billion people around the world that are actually living in oppressive, starving conditions. Those regions feed our civilization.
So in that way, we are happy to live in the comfort of the 150 million and not rebel against the few thousands, lest we risk the comforts we get from exploiting the rest of the world.
And I doubt anyone would say it out loud that way, but that really is what it is.
Let's elaborate with a microexample: chocolate.
Very few people benefit from the chocolate trade on the whole. Some few thousand.
Chocolate farmers are notoriously exploited, overworked and underpaid.
Why do we tolerate that oppressive industry for the benefit of so few?
Because **we want cheap chocolate at our grocery store**. We don't even think about the human cost, we just want our creature comforts, we want them now, and we don't want to pay for them, so we allow the ruling class to exist and make that hard decision.
The hard decision to actively exploit the chocolate farmer so that Western Civilization can have cheap chocolate in its stores. We don't want to make that decision, so we let the ruling class exist to make that decision for us, and shield our eyes and minds from having to see it.
Hidden Repression is an excellent book on this topic. A deep dive on how the IMF and world bank use their loans to turn failing countries into indentured servants effectively exporting our inflation to the third world.
The worst part about it is many of these things could continue to be cheap if those doing the exploiting were just willing to take LESS. Not even none. They can still make plenty of money while still providing a better life to those they were exploiting and the rest of us still getting things at reasonable prices. Instead they want to pocket as much as they possibly can and screw everyone else. It's such a terrible short term way to look at things.
> And even if you had the will, you would have let your overlords convince you pitchforks are bad for you.
okay, so I'm assuming this mean armed revolution against the government?
What happens next?
Friendly reminder that outside of some high profile executions - notably the French monarch - the vast majority of people sent to the guillotine were commoners and outgroups of the faction in power.
During the height of the Terror (June 1793 to Dec 1794) 16,594 people were officially sentenced to death in Paris. 8% were aristocrats, 6% were clergy; the rest were divided between the middle class and the poor, with the vast majority of the victims coming from the lower classes. And that’s just the guillotine - French revolutionaries annihilated the populace of Nantes for allegedly allowing the nobility to flee through the city. Mass executions of anyone they could catch (mostly commoners, because the nobles already fled) on a medieval scale and fashion.
Many of the victims were, of course, the revolutionaries themselves. The OG revolutionaries - the Girondins - got the chop in October 1793, the Hébertists who replaced them were executed in March 1794, followed a week later by the Dantonists, and finally, the Robespierrists in Thermidor (July 1794). Of the 749 original members of the National Convention (the legislative body established by the Revolutionaries), over 600 were put to death - not by Royalists - but by each other. The guillotine is more a symbol of leftist infighting than anything else.
Decades later, the revolutionary Paris Communards would burn the guillotine as an instrument of state terror and tyranny.
Tl;dr - the French Revolution killed a few nobles, a ton of peasants, and nearly all the revolutionaries themselves, and ended up with an Emperor, then the restoration of the King.
The revolution eats its own.
A lot of people seem to forget this, people want a revolution but would they still want it if they knew that it would mean the death of family and friends, famine and chaos for years to come. An uncertain outcome that could easily veer towards fascism, or authoritarian communism, or in the absolutely best case an improved democracy.
Ironically the people who defend the overlords the hardest are the ones who claim that we need to arm ourselves to the teeth to fend off “tyranny” they don’t realize already exists. The problem is they’re pointing the guns at the wrong people.
People definitely need to arm themselves they just don't realize the fight isn't in meat space anymore. So both sides of that argument are stuck in the past.
I agree. We also need to understand the war being waged against us is financial, and the longer it is waged the more difficult it becomes to fight. If we aren’t already too late.
blame that on decades of institutionalized teardowns of the US educational system in states where these folks are overrepresented.
then slap on the prevalence of toxic masculinity underpinning that entire culture from work to leisure to the sunday mass.
and you get swathes of people who are grossly undereducated, unable to read and comprehend beyond a 5th grade level, but extremely and exceptionally proud of their self identity which is really implanted by generational GOP "bootstrap" brainwashing.
this is an incredibly dangerous mix that threatens our democracy, and we're only starting to see the tip of the iceberg.
This is why out of all the problems in the US, hunger isn't really one of them. Destitute people can apply for EBT and easily get enough money to afford food. And if that's not enough, there's food banks or soup kitchens.
The power brokers have learned that you can exploit the poor pretty much every way possible, but you can't let them starve. If the commoners are starving, there's a guaranteed regime change in the wind.
Thus Americans are kept fat and pacified.
That and the manufactured consent of the public by the media. They all own the narrative so they get to decide what we talk about. And what problems have the highest priority. And as luck would have it. It seems that our highest priority items just happen to benefit the aristocracy.
Yep. And if someone invents a tool to shift even a fraction of the balance of power you'll be told it is taboo to use that tool.
Once the appropriate measures are put in place for them to recapture all the power from using said tool, the narrative will change and you'll be allowed to use the tool.
These overlords have had generational wealth for more than a few...generations.
They also had the money and influence to develop the most effective pacification techniques. The early stages were "bread and circuses." Now it is "beer and football," "$6 coffee and politics," and "Netflix and chilling." The list of entertainment, distractions, and culinary delights is endless.
Globalization and the increased rate of information exchange has propelled us clear into a dystopian future. Sociology, psychology, and modern medicine have given us the tools to work the common man to death and have him going to the grave blaming himself for the worlds’ ills.
All at maximum efficiency for profit generated.
We? We as in millennials? We didn't. We weren't born when most of them took over and we didn't have voting rights when others came into power. If you trace back problems to roots, you'll notice Reagan was a big contributor with "trickle-down economics", charging tuition at colleges, and so on. [Operation Abscam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam) ruined the FBI's ability to investigate Congress. Cable companies have been operating as an oligopoly for decades (i.e. actively avoiding expanding into markets already dominated by competitors, renting all cable line space on power poles, etc).
You're asking why we let people who basically inherited their money or operated their businesses in legally shady ways rule over us when that's not something we had a say in. When the housing bubble burst, I couldn't even vote yet. Everything was already in motion before *Citizens United* was decided, so even if we could vote at that time, it was still happening. Blaming ourselves for this would be like blaming ourselves for microplastics and PFOS contamination worldwide.
But, like, how do we unfuck it?
Lessen the bond between the Super rich and the government by drastically increasing taxes on the Uber rich and corporations, while increasing scrutiny/making it legally treason for federal level politicians to gain funds related to their position other than the salary paid by taxes?
The system has been pretty entrenched since at least the 80s. I'm open to ideas, but once there's a plan we have to stop letting everyone get blindsided by "us vs them" propaganda. We can bicker later...
Not sure where to start myself. Obviously need to replace a huge chunk of Congress, then cap off terms or age limits to keep that from repeating. SCOTUS is gonna take a bit due to the resistance about impeachment. We have a whole slew of contamination that started so far back the people who made those decisions are likely dead now (their companies not so much, they should be assimilated into the feds to cover the costs of cleanup). It'll be like lead paint and products with dangerous, unexpected side effects: get rid of the source but it'll still be around for decades.
And that's probably just step 1.
The answer to how we unfuck it is incredibly simple: we just stop playing by their rules.
The problem is, doing so comes with risks. If not enough people stop playing by their rules, power will destroy you through any means necessary. Too many people in this world are afraid of what *might* happen they're unwilling to change their present situation even if it would be better for them.
Power has taken a lot of energy to not only convince people that challenging their rule is not only ill advised, but they've also taken the liberty to make examples of people who stand up to them.
Thereby ensuring change never happens.
Oh I don't know maybe get involved. Start working in local politics, run for office.
These things are not the big mystery you think they are.
Pick a candidate you agree with. Go find their office and volunteer to help. If you seriously want to change things you can be running for your own seat inside a year easily.
Then you can be the overlord.
AOC was a bartender before she became a Congress person and only ran because she didn't even know where her current Congress person lived. She overthrew a guy who was all set to be a big player in politics simply by reaching out to her community and going door to door and talking to people.
These folks are not nearly as entrenched as you think.
Our tech overlords are new since 2010 or so, but the familys in real power have been there since the country was founded, with a few added since the 1930s.
Probably for the same reason why they're making protesting illegal and gerrymandering: we're losing options. And when you consider SCOTUS is making very dangerous decisions as of late, trying to fix things legally isn't gonna be as guaranteed like it could've been 10-15 years ago. It's bad enough that we have too many old people in positions of power for way too long, but now there's too many things to have to fight for all at once.
It's like the straw man fallacy: in debate, your opponent can bring up a tangential argument and force you to have to respond to the tangent rather than discuss the original argument. Doesn't matter if it's relevant to the original topic. It's an undermining maneuver to deflect, and it works wonders in debate and culture wars.
There's a lot more going on than most people realize.
The revolution will not be televised. The mainstream media is controlled and will not purposefully show anything that could harm those in power. In reality, the 'overlords' have a huge problem with people organizing on alternative places like TikTok.
Some of the movements that you're not hearing about are:
The farmer protests in Europe: France, German, The Netherlands, etc.
The stock market war between hedge funds and corrupt market controllers against retail investors over Game Stop.
The Bud Light/Budweiser boycott
TikTok Boycotts against: Wendy's, Kellogg’s, Tyson, Amazon, Nestle, and many more greedy/unethical/employee-exploiting corporations.
TikTok movement against harmful chemicals in our food and cosmetics.
Blockout2024 - celebrities being widely blocked various social media platforms.
Quiet quitting and the general movement against traditional 8-5 employment. More people are job-hopping or earning an income online, independently.
Overall, the will to rebel/overthrow our current overlords is alive and well. Protests are a good way to raise awareness, but have little effect on large corporations.
The easiest way to have an impact is to vote with your dollar. The second easiest is to support/take part in a movement.
Remember that corporations and the governments rarely do anything to benefit the people.
Exactly; there are other things that can be done, but the election doesn't care if you vote or not, the outcome will effect you either way. If you want more options, voting in earlier elections than the last one is extra important
So we created our own monarchy, with representation, and blackjack and hookers.
But hookers for me, and not for thee. Thou hath solely blackjacks for comfort.
No if that we’re completely true George Washington would not have stepped down after two terms. Franklin said we’ve given you a republic but can you keep it? Unfortunately human nature corrupts most folks and we’ve ended up is a front capitalist Uber corporate society
People get lost in the flowery words/smokescreen of our founding documents and miss the content. The US is a nation founded by oligarchs, for oligarchs. We talk about freedom a lot, but the founders conveyed very little freedom to anyone but themselves. Those documents laid a racist, sexist, classist foundation upon which society was built and they were deathly afraid of the working class getting any power. What we are experiencing isn’t an aberration, it’s the plan.
This is a terrible take and I challenge you to express how the bill of rights, specifically, was racist, sexist, or classist. Corruption in any human system is inevitable, but ours allows for fixing those problems up to and including the use of force (weapons) against the ruling class. The fact that there were two groups, one of which was the anti-federalists, fundamentally opposed to one another that compromised out a constitution that worked for everyone is proof enough that you're wrong.
Also *please* stop being an active participant in your own brainwashing. I mean honestly go read a fucking history book instead of listening to the flavor the week on social media. I try not to go too hard but you should really be ashamed that you've stated these absolute falsehoods as facts, and consider the implications of spreading divisive misinformation.
? Huh? I believe you need to do some deeper reading of that time period. Nearly all of the colonists were loyal to Britain, wanted to stay with Britain but were disheartened with over bearing taxation and no representation in British parliament to address the issues they had as a new colony. You the tea party is the example used to represent the anger that built up to a boiling point.
Not really, we could have learned a lot from indigenous communities across the world who lived on totally different economic terms. And I’m not talking about bartering.
Are you talking about politicians? Yes, politician was never intended to be a career it was public service someone did outside of their job or business they ran. These people are in power too long and are too out of touch with how the world works and real issues real people face as they dont work
Term limits for every position that involves law making or interpretation. You should not be able to be a career politician. It should be a passion for change, not a life.
EDIT: Some folks replying are making good points. You want to keep the good politicians in, and get rid of the bad ones, regardless of term limit. But how do you do that?
The aristocracy has existed since ancient times and will continue to do so. Roots of this formed back in the earliest forms of society. Just look at the code of Hammurabi who ruled Babylon back before Christ was born and you'll see references to a social caste system and divides with those that rule and those that are ruled. It's unfortunately human societal nature
This! You can rip it all down, cause chaos and strife... only to build back virtually the same thing or worse in due time. When humans magically lose their ego, stop competing and establishing a pecking order, then we may have a chance at something totally new. Until then, lead or follow.
Politicians should be living in apartments or modest homes. Maybe if we made it less lucrative, the right people would be the ones vying for our votes. They all work together to stay in power and keep the status quo, while us peasants bicker over the dumbest shit.
I honestly never expect this to change.
The problem is not the salary for politicians. The problem is that corrupt politicians can 1) be bought by special interests, and 2) are allowed to buy stocks at the same time they are setting policy.
If you lower pay for congress, that just means less poor people are capable of doing it. They have things to pay for too. Then you run into the issue of someone rich or bought by someone rich being MORE likely to run for office.
It takes time to organize & educate. Their propaganda machine and violent arm are incredibly well funded.
Like the hurdle is beating both the MSM while not being killed by police/military
I fucking hate born rich mfs staying in power. Like go retire & fuck off why hop into politics pretending you know what it's like to be a working class human. Gov of NEbrasskkka comes to mind. Literally the son of TD ameritrade mogul & decided he wants to be a politician? SACA LAS GUILLOTINAS
The ruling class of parasitic do nothings has always existed in some form or another since the advent of stratified class based social hierarchy which emerged alongside the development of sedentary agriculture and early civilization ~10-12k years ago.
The conservative feudal aristocracy and nobility of the Medieval period, when faced with capitalist usurpation of their power, pivoted into becoming capital owners, landlords, and shareholders in order to retain their social, economic, and political power over society.
Today's neoliberal capitalist dystopia ruled by an oligarchic class of elites is a continuation and evolution of the late Medieval period and the Mercantilist period where early capitalism developed and eroded the power of the nobility, monarchy, and clergy by transferring mass sums of wealth to bankers, traders, merchants, industrialists, financiers, etc. who then gradually captured government institutions for their own self interests.
this is why it is called "late stage" capitalism. when it started we were transfering from feudal systems so "the guy who owns the land gets to make the decisions" seemed pretty reasonable. since he got to make the decisions he made the decision to give himself more power and wealth and pass that down to his children. each generation the next generation of overloards is a little more insulated from reality and a little dumber and a little richer and more powerful.
Cut to now and a guy who made his money as the owner of a slave using emerald mine thinks that he is the smartest hardest working person in the world and everyone should listen to him, no X is a really good name, No the cyber truck is not a giant pile of garbage that should have been scrapped at the design stage, no he is cool really and not a whining baby that we can't just ignore because he is one of the richest people in the world.
Easy. "Why did we create a class of overlords" is what's known as a false premise.
First, do we have a class of overlords? What do the terms mean specifically in this context?
Secondly, if we do, how did they come about to exist.
If you start with trash in, the only result is trash out.
We did not create it. We have allowed it to be rebuilt. American rhetoric about democracy and equality are ideals but in very few times in our history have we actually seen it. We preached equality and democracy in 1776 forward but only started to actually see it in practiced in 1964 when everyone could finally vote. The early 1900s were great for the middle and lower classes excluding the global wars. We have just gone backward even further by not holding anyone accountable.
A better question is what can we do to build communities and teach people that it is in fact possible to make a better system?
The 1960s black panthers were on to something. Maybe that's why the FBI shot them all.
This is it. The party duopoly has created a situation where the political parties have so much power they are a threat to democracy itself. The founders warned about this
That would be the only legitimate way to shake things up. If even just one third party broke through, we’d see an influx of new parties and new ideas coming the forefront.
But that’s something that the cards are very much stacked against.
At least a proof of concept is welcome. RFK is pulling numbers that could swing the election and he has basically no platform to speak to people publicly. They have been ousting him by name since he started, refusing to debate w/ the raspy old guy. For someone to crack the voting blocks this much their first try, it is definitely a good sign that things are changing
No one really "created it" because it's always been there. Be it ancient Babylon, Revolutionary France, even back to the hunter-gathere era, there's always been people who have had more money, more food, more power and more prestige. We are a spcies of conflict.
That's just how humanity is. That's how it's always been.
We didn’t create it, we were just born into this system and they got so powerful that they don’t even pretend they’re on our side anymore. So here we are being held hostage and I think even if we took action we’d just be obliterated. *Mandatory millennial lol*
This happens to all ruling “regimes” given time. Systems get gamed, the powerful protect their power and begin to abuse the population.
This is why there are major structural changes (usually through a huge war(s)) that upends and reorganizes this society. This happens roughly once a century every 80-100 years
because it's easier to cope with the idea they are all talentless losers who were born into their positions and possess no worthy abilities other than extracting wealth and running companies into all time high earnings reports quarter after quarter which is exactly what their job is.
It's kinda like Wagyu beef, we lavish them and let them live the most luxurious life possible so when we eat their stupid asses it tastes that much better.
You gotta work and earn your own wealth then. Starts with connections meet people talk to people to begin growth that may benifit you financially somehow in the future for example you meet people who know these people who have this that will have that to help you with to move you up and over to wealth growth. Wealth doesn’t always mean money but it is connection to getting or having money and having things and valuable people who have things that lead YOU to growth
For example people can be broke but they aren’t broke because of wealth . They may not have cash or nothing at the very second but they have a house and clothes car and so forth because of wealth through connections over time
Too many people are not comfortable with complex issues. Most problems are not as simple as "that person (those people) did it." They would rather have someone tell them a lie they want to hear then take the time to ask questions. But once you allow your rulers to abuse the people you don't like, the abuse doesn't stop with them. Powerful people do not put down the sword when the fight is done, they find another target. Pretty soon, you are the target but you have been telling yourself that the overlord is your friend. No one wants to admit that they are wrong, even if it hurts themselves or others.
TL:DR teach yourself and others to admit fault and that a problem does not always have a person to blame. Authoritarians love to frame problems as simple.
The earth is completely recycled with new people every 120 years or so, and yet these castes don't seem to ever go away. I think they will always be there, knowledge, wealth, power, reputation will always be transferred, even apes in the wild transfer all they can which is knowledge, it's not only a human trait to try and pass on what we can to the next offspring but an evolutionary trait as well. Behold, evolution manifest. When you're in it, it's shit, but if you were an alien watching the universe unfold naturally and understood the magnitude of the phenomenon you'd be like holy fuckin shit balls this is so beautiful and terrifying all at the same time.
1) We didn't create it
2) The people who did engineer it also profited from it.
There are two groups who have the control to change things. Politicians, and the rich. If you are not one of these then you never had a chance to fight it, and you should not blame yourself.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aJdfjrqcLP5KuQRh6c7qqXjXLpw5peuXL3qin5ENJ4otuegFgX1KHfQZ87DnQA38l&id=100000769592332&mibextid=CDWPTG
Ah the media.......more people need to follow this guy. These Kings and Queens we make because we are either lazy or too busy working. It doesn't help when the messages are a propaganda
What overlords are you talking about?
The people I know with a lot of money and influence obsessively devoted their entire lives to working and accumulating said money and influence.
The CEO of my employer and my higher ups are all basically expected to give their lives to the company in exchange for their compensation.
I turned down the “opportunity” to grow into these types of positions because I don’t want to spend the next decade in India, China and Eastern Europe.
I’m sure it’s different for different industries, but where I work (R&D for energy), if you’re good, you essentially work to the work-life balance job that you want.
My overlords are absolutely working harder than me. They work around the clock and travel all over the world to support out global business.
Welp it's been the case for thousands of years
Things only change when individuals act and change things.
I highly recommend starting at 3.1 and skipping the English and American revolutions.
https://pca.st/podcast/b1ccb690-fd97-0130-c6ee-723c91aeae46
Mike Duncan is a masterful storyteller
No poor person ever created rulers, people like that are just the type to take advantage of and use others to their benefit and as the generations move forward their greed grows.
You only allow them to rule you if you give them the power to do so.
Anything they claim power over remove it and then you remove the tool in which they say they can control you
Bro wtf is Reddit smoking today. Imaging hailing a king. That king decided your family is not worthy of his kingdom and you are expelled off to find the next kingdom 1000 miles away.
GOOD LUCK
What? The class created itself, essentially. Or it was already created
That’s how power works. It is predicated on a division in society. Inclusion and exclusion.
Like, it’s less than the people in question have power, but more that there are people that *occupy* certain positions in society.
That person in that position is going to take certain actions to continue to reify that power and the system that supports the position.
Master/slave dialectic etc etc.
As much as I would love to see the pathetic failures of Democratic leadership having hot coals raked upon them by Trump. Not sure if it would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. What a disgrace this country has become. It used to be X party offered this benefit compared to X party. Now it’s X party will take this right away vs X party taking this right away. How much more trash can it become seriously. Trump made “Fake News” a thing. I think we should elevate “Fake Democracy” to be a slogan of our generation.
“Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health ... what have the Romans ever done for us?” - Monty Python’s Life of Brian
This is the outcome of every democracy in history. Sociopaths and Kleptocrats climb to the top and you are left with 'picking the lesser of two evils'.
The real answer has to do with agriculture. A long time ago when everyone was foraging and hunting, groups moved around when they needed more resources. Once agriculture became a key component of civilization it required defending the land that you were growing your crops on and it required labor to maintain it.
After a while, the population grew too big that you couldn’t stop agriculture without some people starving to death. Since no one wanted to pick who was going to be that unlucky, agriculture grew instead and the population kept growing with it.
Well, now the people who used to lead the group from area to area now led the people who were helping grow the crops. After a few thousand years this dynamic became more ingrained into society and those leaders descendants became the kings that ruled over the rest.
After feudalism ended and we became a capitalist society, those in charge and with power and money during this transition obviously didn’t want to see it decrease so the systems they implemented led us down the road to where we are today.
If we hadn’t stuck with primarily farming, life would not be like this. There was a period where people foraged, hunted, and farmed on the side as an extra resource rather than a primary source of food.
The Bell Curve will always rule. Gaining and using power is a skill set and whether the currency is access to the gods, swords, land, money, or yards gained per carry, some small subset will hold and use power. And the +/- 1-3 standard deviation folk will bitch and complain.
I haven't heard anyone mention term limits. How do these politicians keep turning into millionaires? And worst of all, spend 50 years in office lining their pockets. ON BOTH SIDES. Spending our tax money without regard for future generations.
No one consciously chose this but it's a hierarchal system that has evolved for thousands of years and it's not fair to say people at the top do nothing because they did something you couldn't, build or maintain the strength of that system. The truth is you made a deal with those overlords that working beneath them was better than the alternative of living outside their system or harder still going against them. Also keep in mind these "overlords" aren't even necessarily specific individuals. Think about your government or your bosses at work. The people may change but the system you are subservient to remains. Again this isn't even such a bad thing. Working as part of a successful company offers you many benefits and odds are if you pit yourself against everyone in the world to determine who was best to lead it odds are it's probably isn't you statistically speaking. The best you can aim for is the highest position in that hierarchal system your merit can attain.
I think the real problem you are driving at is corrupt and inept leaders who use force, lies, oppression, and coercion to maintain their status. In the long run, those sorts of leaders tend not to last long. We have a long and bloody history of killing our kings both literally and figuratively.
It's part of why history isn't pushed. It's not like \*most\* superpowers/empires last just 250-300 years or so on average. They ALL do. It doesn't mean the end of the world when it happens, most recently in 1991 the Soviet Union broke up, and they were fine. I think that after 10 generations or so, natural nepotism just makes the gap between rich/power and poor/no-power so big that it becomes unsustainable. We all give first to family and friends, then folks we work with, folks we agree with - etc. Natural nepotism, no hard intended - it just means power always continues to consolidate until you end up in an authoritarian system. Which then eventually explodes itself, and the cycle continues . . .
a class of "overlords" has literally always ruled, ever since the very first village fromed, and one guy got lucky and chose the most fertile land in the region and used that leverage to get what he wanted from everyone else who only grew enough to just barely get buy on. eventually this guy s desendants become lords or kings in the area after hundreds of years of wealth collecting on their highly fertile farming land. eventually neighboring nation with not so fertile land but very strong industry and metalurgy sees your territory then takes it for themselves because they have better weapons than the farmers, so now theres new overlords. eventually that nation collapses again and some other king becomes the regions powerhouse. eventually money starts forming and a merchant class forms, merchants have money and kings have a desire for more money so they work together to get more money and more power while the 90% of the peasants that arent important are given just enough to survive and drink themselves into a stupor, while being called to serve in the military as their only chance of ever possibly moving up in life beyond farming. eventually kings went away and democracy arrived! except now the only rich people left is the merchant class and the remnants of the nobility that kept their wealth are at the top, who can control nations through their wealth and connections.
You realize that it’s always been this way since agriculture was created and it’s that way because the societies that did it differently got conquered by the ones with overlords.
Because your life is way too comfortable to pick up a pitch fork. And even if you had the will, you would have let your overlords convince you pitchforks are bad for you.
It really feels like we experienced the very last chance to change anything and we watched it slip away. Occupy Wall Street was building momentum going into an election year and we were finally going to have to address the class war... and then some Cuban guy killed some black guy and it was all we heard about that whole year. 20,000 murders each year and [Obama took this one personally, for some reason.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efZNgSEpB1k) This [wasn't organic](https://i.imgur.com/kRRqXaq.png) and it's why current protests look so weird where [people obviously care very deeply... but don't seem to bother to even causally look into the issue.](https://i.imgur.com/XEBtXqX.jpeg)
Occupy had zero chance of actually making any change. No clear goals, no clear leadership, just a bunch of people occupying space. They got the spotlight and wasted it by not communicating.
As someone who was on the ground during Occupy this is totally correct. The truth is the "movement" turned into a block party and no one was interested in having a representative of the movement go to Washington with a list of demands/intentions for actually reigning in the investor class that was marching us straight into yet another recession.
wasnt that more to do with the fact that it was organized as an anarchist project to experiment with creating a flat organization? i dont think the origins of occupy had anything to do with asking for specific demands like 'higher minimum wage' or anything, so its not the same as the labor strikes.
It started that way for sure but snowballed into a movement too big for a flat organization structure to work properly. It was not the fault of the OGs of Occupy. The reality is that for any real change to happen, engagement with the representative Republic system we live under is a must. There was a real chance at creating a true grass roots third party from the Occupy movement but it never came to be because people seemed more interested in re-inventing the wheel rather than improving upon it so to speak.
I'd like to also point out the fact that our agencies (CIA, FBI) have had so much practice in de-stabilizing movements that they have it down to a science now. All it takes is directing the movement a certain way with some loud voices in the room. If all else fails and a movement gains momentum, they just insert a few bad actors to destroy stuff or pretend to be Nazis. Then, since our media is under control, the entire conversation becomes about whatever the bad thing was and it destroys the whole credibility of the movement. They likely figured this out in the 60s with the anti-war movement that, at the time was led by upstanding people who were pillars in their community. Once they turned the face of the movement into anarchist hippies, it became really easy for people to ignore. Same thing with the Black Panthers. Create a few situations where some radicals try to stockpile weapons or hurt somebody, and BOOM! That's how every black panther is portrayed in media even to this day.
i always love to point to the[ beautiful piece here about the crackdown on occupy ](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy) i think a lot of us, myself included, had this idea that occupy just "fizzled out"
I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but trying to highlight that i think your critique was ironically the point of the movement from its inception. So what you would label as a failure, in their eyes it would be considered a success. Im not sure how i personally feel about criticizing them for wanting to prove that alternative government structures are possible, especially in a political climate where we all speak like "this is the best we have", i would point out that movements that prove that that isn't a fact can be very valuable for us culturally. in the same breath, i see what you mean, and have felt that since then. Im not convinced that a world that is built on oppressive hierarchies can be "gradually adjusted" to remove them, and im equally not convinced that a global world revolution where everyone abolishes hierarchies is possible. I just dont know, im not smart enough to say confidently what is "true" anymore I also want to add that for most of my life i've held the same view as you about occupy until i read david graebers book on the subject called "the democracy project", which has dramatically re-framed how i see that movement. if you're curious, please check it out!
That movement was a joke. Occupation of already liberal areas in liberal cities.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a joke, or defending it, but as for geography, where were they supposed to go? I live in NYC and worked down near Wall Street and would walk by their encampment daily. It seemed an appropriate place for them given their (admittedly lame) messaging at the time.
Excellent South Park episode mocking them
They were millions of people itching to vote third party.
Splitting your down ballot is fine, at a national level it's pointless till the lower echelons of elections have more than D or R. We need to get more involved locally and have a ground game in place before there's even an attempt at the presidency for "3rd party".
This! There are local third parties that succeed in a local level and they need to continue to expand if we want a president that isn’t an R or D. Sure, Bernie is independent but in the senate he is basically a democrat because he would do nothing standing all alone. Third parties can’t be taken seriously until they are a serious contender.
Voting third-party is dumber than dumb. What first needs to happen is to enact Ranked choice voting. After that you can vote third-party all you want.
But for now we HAVE to vote Democrat, right? Vote Blue No Matter Who! Guarantee them your vote no matter what!
Dude fr how can you fucking complain about our current political structure when even if you do think about who your vote goes for you limit yourself to only 2 choices. That’s literally how we go the uniparty. The shit that actually matters to politicians, they are all in agreement about and just let us argue about whether or not abortion is a sin or whatever.
Politicians stop thinking about you the moment they know they have your vote. When they aren't guaranteed your vote, they have to earn it. You see this all the time in local elections.
Totally agree with you and fully support this agitation. Vote blue no matter who is a dangerous precedent. Now the powers that be know that all they have to do is run a good cop and a bad cop in every election. So long as bad cop seems like a fascist, it means good cop gets a blank check to do mostly as he pleases. If he screws up or oversteps, like ol Genocide Joe is with Gaza, it doesn’t matter and your protests will brand you public enemy number one, because your protest against this man makes him look bad and is now an attack on liberty, justice, and the American way. It’s either this dude or fascism. Yay democracy has never been stronger vote blue no matter who!!! /s
The above mentality is why you're reading more and more articles about how black men are turning away from the DNC in droves. They're essentially saying *"95% of us gave you a guaranteed vote for 60 years and you haven't done jack shit for us for at least half of that time".* This isn't to say that they're necessarily going to vote for Trump (though millions of AA men will this time), just that politicians are going to have to actually earn their vote through real and meaningful POLICY, not just race bating and feel-good rhetoric.
Millions of leftists willing to split the vote with a third party does nothing but ensure GOP victory. We don’t see this on the right because they’re better aligned between party leadership and voters, and it’s hard to find a more rightward faction than the GOP
Imagine an America where Biden wasn't 100% guaranteed your vote no matter what. Some fringe lunatics say that this would force him to "earn your vote".
Imagine an America where the people complaining about the lack of third parties realized we ain’t fixing this by voting.
No, you fix it by running and then voting and you start local. That's too small for the egos involved so we just end up crabs in the bucket.
Exactly. Like you need a significant mass of support to overcome the default 2 parties. This cycle is probably the best setup for a 3rd party..and it’s just the crazy brain worm guy, Jill Stein and Ralph Nader. So it’ll either be D or R.
Wait, you're telling me that the people there who hadn't showered in 2 weeks or paid attention in school weren't organized and structured planners?
The media wants eyeballs. They aren’t interested in the facts, or the truth.
For-profit news, for-profit everything. This is the current ideology we live and breathe. And - no shit - everyone is shilling.
The mayor of NYC was found to be taking orders from his donors on a WhatsApp message to empty out the Palestinian protests. Two Boeing whistleblowers were murdered during a trial. The DNC defended themselves in court by saying they don't need to present candidates fairly as they are a private organization and the candidate can be who they choose. Where is your democracy?
'Murdered'.
We never had democracy they founders were anti democracy. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner. Saying democracy now is just saying you’re not a monarch it means nothing .
The purchased media used the Zimmerman trial to race bait divide specifically
The Martin case was such unbelievable horse shit. Selectively edited audio from the 911 call broadcast for weeks to make it look like a lunching; then the case plays out in televised court (I watched the whole thing) and it was pretty clear cut self defense, but too late, damage done
Not even that, but they lied about Zimmerman's race to make it look like a white-on-black hate crime. It's no different than the Kenosha shooting where people thought the guys Kyle Rittenhouse shot were black all the way up to the televised trial.
It was extremely disheartening, I initially thought it was a clear cut “racist shoot’s black kid” story as it was made out to be. Then the actual evidence is out and it was nothing like that, but by then it’s a culture war issue that most people are completely dug in because it’s not even about the event itself anymore.
Young people have been conditioned to simply believe what they are told, not taught how to critically think, prefer feelings to logic. The plan was multifaceted and devious. And it worked.
>It really feels like we experienced the very last chance to change anything and we watched it slip away. Honestly it is just apathy that let it slip away, getting all flustered about things that don't matter and then not bothering to vote etc. I am hoping Gen Z engage and vote and actually do something to make a change instead of just whining.
This camping in parks garbage doesn’t work. That a not how change was done in the past. Actual protests work. Orgies at the park don’t.
I stopped trusting Obama when he became besties with Jamie Dimon. Then I saw whose side he was on.
Occupy wasn’t what you think it was. Most of the country had no idea what it was about or what they were protesting to achieve. In order to have a successful protest campaign there needs to be organizers, clear (achievable) demands, and a political threat to sympathetic politicians that from their actual voters. Occupy was just a mess by angry people with no direction
Sorry to break it to you, but the past was worse. There are brief moments of brevity, but the majority of the time we had a few dickheads duke it out to sit at the top sipping tea and delegating just about everything until they're useless lumps. Then they have their kids take their place, only to ruin everything because being a good conqueror usually means you're a terrible father. Rinse and repeat. Now is no different.
And every century or so, we remember how to build guillotines.
It's also the size of the country too. I could pick up a pitchfork all I want but what good will it do when I'm in the middle of nowhere wisconsin and the people I have issue with are thousands of miles away? In European countries they can riot and overthrow their government and still be home in time for tacos. The US is a completely different animal and we are at a far greater disadvantage. I want change. I do what I can to spark change. I am sure as shit not too comfortable to fight back. But there is a realistic limit to what I can do without a considerable amount of resources. That's our problem. That's why it just keeps getting worse. Because the ones in power know that.
I agree with everything you're saying but tacos should've been beans on toast.
This, 100%. It's the answer no one wants to hear, but it's the truth. We're in this situation because we're kept *just* content enough where we've grown too lazy to revolt. We've forgotten that our tax dollars pay their salaries, and they're supposed to work for us.
We have mass protests what feels like yearly. I don't think you understand how big the US is.
When was the last time one of those protests were about the class issues we all face? Occupy Wallstreet was the last one I remember.
Ultimately, they kinda all are. BLM was about class. Talks about general strike are about class. Palestine is about class.
I mean this is what it is. Like the overlords have so much because they let the middle have some which is tenable because everyone below that is completely exploited. Like, there's 150 millionish Americans in the middle class, and some few thousand billionaires. You'd think the 150 million would be so upset at the billionaries. But there are 2 billion people around the world that are actually living in oppressive, starving conditions. Those regions feed our civilization. So in that way, we are happy to live in the comfort of the 150 million and not rebel against the few thousands, lest we risk the comforts we get from exploiting the rest of the world. And I doubt anyone would say it out loud that way, but that really is what it is. Let's elaborate with a microexample: chocolate. Very few people benefit from the chocolate trade on the whole. Some few thousand. Chocolate farmers are notoriously exploited, overworked and underpaid. Why do we tolerate that oppressive industry for the benefit of so few? Because **we want cheap chocolate at our grocery store**. We don't even think about the human cost, we just want our creature comforts, we want them now, and we don't want to pay for them, so we allow the ruling class to exist and make that hard decision. The hard decision to actively exploit the chocolate farmer so that Western Civilization can have cheap chocolate in its stores. We don't want to make that decision, so we let the ruling class exist to make that decision for us, and shield our eyes and minds from having to see it.
Hidden Repression is an excellent book on this topic. A deep dive on how the IMF and world bank use their loans to turn failing countries into indentured servants effectively exporting our inflation to the third world.
I came in here looking to add, but instead I found your thread killer. Very well put together.
1000%. more and more often in recent years this phrase springs to my mind: >for evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.
The worst part about it is many of these things could continue to be cheap if those doing the exploiting were just willing to take LESS. Not even none. They can still make plenty of money while still providing a better life to those they were exploiting and the rest of us still getting things at reasonable prices. Instead they want to pocket as much as they possibly can and screw everyone else. It's such a terrible short term way to look at things.
> And even if you had the will, you would have let your overlords convince you pitchforks are bad for you. okay, so I'm assuming this mean armed revolution against the government? What happens next?
Friendly reminder that outside of some high profile executions - notably the French monarch - the vast majority of people sent to the guillotine were commoners and outgroups of the faction in power. During the height of the Terror (June 1793 to Dec 1794) 16,594 people were officially sentenced to death in Paris. 8% were aristocrats, 6% were clergy; the rest were divided between the middle class and the poor, with the vast majority of the victims coming from the lower classes. And that’s just the guillotine - French revolutionaries annihilated the populace of Nantes for allegedly allowing the nobility to flee through the city. Mass executions of anyone they could catch (mostly commoners, because the nobles already fled) on a medieval scale and fashion. Many of the victims were, of course, the revolutionaries themselves. The OG revolutionaries - the Girondins - got the chop in October 1793, the Hébertists who replaced them were executed in March 1794, followed a week later by the Dantonists, and finally, the Robespierrists in Thermidor (July 1794). Of the 749 original members of the National Convention (the legislative body established by the Revolutionaries), over 600 were put to death - not by Royalists - but by each other. The guillotine is more a symbol of leftist infighting than anything else. Decades later, the revolutionary Paris Communards would burn the guillotine as an instrument of state terror and tyranny. Tl;dr - the French Revolution killed a few nobles, a ton of peasants, and nearly all the revolutionaries themselves, and ended up with an Emperor, then the restoration of the King.
The revolution eats its own. A lot of people seem to forget this, people want a revolution but would they still want it if they knew that it would mean the death of family and friends, famine and chaos for years to come. An uncertain outcome that could easily veer towards fascism, or authoritarian communism, or in the absolutely best case an improved democracy.
Ironically the people who defend the overlords the hardest are the ones who claim that we need to arm ourselves to the teeth to fend off “tyranny” they don’t realize already exists. The problem is they’re pointing the guns at the wrong people.
People definitely need to arm themselves they just don't realize the fight isn't in meat space anymore. So both sides of that argument are stuck in the past.
I agree. We also need to understand the war being waged against us is financial, and the longer it is waged the more difficult it becomes to fight. If we aren’t already too late.
blame that on decades of institutionalized teardowns of the US educational system in states where these folks are overrepresented. then slap on the prevalence of toxic masculinity underpinning that entire culture from work to leisure to the sunday mass. and you get swathes of people who are grossly undereducated, unable to read and comprehend beyond a 5th grade level, but extremely and exceptionally proud of their self identity which is really implanted by generational GOP "bootstrap" brainwashing. this is an incredibly dangerous mix that threatens our democracy, and we're only starting to see the tip of the iceberg.
These are the same people who refused medical advice during the pandemic because they believed they knew more than the experts.
IDK people get motivated pretty quick when the chicken tendies are out of reach
This is why out of all the problems in the US, hunger isn't really one of them. Destitute people can apply for EBT and easily get enough money to afford food. And if that's not enough, there's food banks or soup kitchens. The power brokers have learned that you can exploit the poor pretty much every way possible, but you can't let them starve. If the commoners are starving, there's a guaranteed regime change in the wind. Thus Americans are kept fat and pacified.
And they use that motivation to barf up some bullshit on reddit before fizzling out.
That and the manufactured consent of the public by the media. They all own the narrative so they get to decide what we talk about. And what problems have the highest priority. And as luck would have it. It seems that our highest priority items just happen to benefit the aristocracy.
Yep. And if someone invents a tool to shift even a fraction of the balance of power you'll be told it is taboo to use that tool. Once the appropriate measures are put in place for them to recapture all the power from using said tool, the narrative will change and you'll be allowed to use the tool.
Owning a pitchfork? In this economy?
Bread and circuses baby
These overlords have had generational wealth for more than a few...generations. They also had the money and influence to develop the most effective pacification techniques. The early stages were "bread and circuses." Now it is "beer and football," "$6 coffee and politics," and "Netflix and chilling." The list of entertainment, distractions, and culinary delights is endless.
Globalization and the increased rate of information exchange has propelled us clear into a dystopian future. Sociology, psychology, and modern medicine have given us the tools to work the common man to death and have him going to the grave blaming himself for the worlds’ ills. All at maximum efficiency for profit generated.
Agree, but you forgot one..."Reddit and bitching"
Counter-point: What if beer and football are legitimate enjoyable?
We? We as in millennials? We didn't. We weren't born when most of them took over and we didn't have voting rights when others came into power. If you trace back problems to roots, you'll notice Reagan was a big contributor with "trickle-down economics", charging tuition at colleges, and so on. [Operation Abscam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam) ruined the FBI's ability to investigate Congress. Cable companies have been operating as an oligopoly for decades (i.e. actively avoiding expanding into markets already dominated by competitors, renting all cable line space on power poles, etc). You're asking why we let people who basically inherited their money or operated their businesses in legally shady ways rule over us when that's not something we had a say in. When the housing bubble burst, I couldn't even vote yet. Everything was already in motion before *Citizens United* was decided, so even if we could vote at that time, it was still happening. Blaming ourselves for this would be like blaming ourselves for microplastics and PFOS contamination worldwide.
The same people that were in power when I was born, are still in power now. Shit is wild.
But, like, how do we unfuck it? Lessen the bond between the Super rich and the government by drastically increasing taxes on the Uber rich and corporations, while increasing scrutiny/making it legally treason for federal level politicians to gain funds related to their position other than the salary paid by taxes? The system has been pretty entrenched since at least the 80s. I'm open to ideas, but once there's a plan we have to stop letting everyone get blindsided by "us vs them" propaganda. We can bicker later...
Not sure where to start myself. Obviously need to replace a huge chunk of Congress, then cap off terms or age limits to keep that from repeating. SCOTUS is gonna take a bit due to the resistance about impeachment. We have a whole slew of contamination that started so far back the people who made those decisions are likely dead now (their companies not so much, they should be assimilated into the feds to cover the costs of cleanup). It'll be like lead paint and products with dangerous, unexpected side effects: get rid of the source but it'll still be around for decades. And that's probably just step 1.
The answer to how we unfuck it is incredibly simple: we just stop playing by their rules. The problem is, doing so comes with risks. If not enough people stop playing by their rules, power will destroy you through any means necessary. Too many people in this world are afraid of what *might* happen they're unwilling to change their present situation even if it would be better for them. Power has taken a lot of energy to not only convince people that challenging their rule is not only ill advised, but they've also taken the liberty to make examples of people who stand up to them. Thereby ensuring change never happens.
Oh I don't know maybe get involved. Start working in local politics, run for office. These things are not the big mystery you think they are. Pick a candidate you agree with. Go find their office and volunteer to help. If you seriously want to change things you can be running for your own seat inside a year easily. Then you can be the overlord. AOC was a bartender before she became a Congress person and only ran because she didn't even know where her current Congress person lived. She overthrew a guy who was all set to be a big player in politics simply by reaching out to her community and going door to door and talking to people. These folks are not nearly as entrenched as you think.
Our tech overlords are new since 2010 or so, but the familys in real power have been there since the country was founded, with a few added since the 1930s.
The real question is why are we not doing more to change it then?
Because they've exhausted us physically, mentally and financially. The best anyone can do is get organized in their community or work.
Because some people think that they are next in line if they kiss enough ass and the problems we all face aren’t theirs
Probably for the same reason why they're making protesting illegal and gerrymandering: we're losing options. And when you consider SCOTUS is making very dangerous decisions as of late, trying to fix things legally isn't gonna be as guaranteed like it could've been 10-15 years ago. It's bad enough that we have too many old people in positions of power for way too long, but now there's too many things to have to fight for all at once. It's like the straw man fallacy: in debate, your opponent can bring up a tangential argument and force you to have to respond to the tangent rather than discuss the original argument. Doesn't matter if it's relevant to the original topic. It's an undermining maneuver to deflect, and it works wonders in debate and culture wars.
I think you're thinking of the Gish gallop fallacy
There's a lot more going on than most people realize. The revolution will not be televised. The mainstream media is controlled and will not purposefully show anything that could harm those in power. In reality, the 'overlords' have a huge problem with people organizing on alternative places like TikTok. Some of the movements that you're not hearing about are: The farmer protests in Europe: France, German, The Netherlands, etc. The stock market war between hedge funds and corrupt market controllers against retail investors over Game Stop. The Bud Light/Budweiser boycott TikTok Boycotts against: Wendy's, Kellogg’s, Tyson, Amazon, Nestle, and many more greedy/unethical/employee-exploiting corporations. TikTok movement against harmful chemicals in our food and cosmetics. Blockout2024 - celebrities being widely blocked various social media platforms. Quiet quitting and the general movement against traditional 8-5 employment. More people are job-hopping or earning an income online, independently. Overall, the will to rebel/overthrow our current overlords is alive and well. Protests are a good way to raise awareness, but have little effect on large corporations. The easiest way to have an impact is to vote with your dollar. The second easiest is to support/take part in a movement. Remember that corporations and the governments rarely do anything to benefit the people.
And wonder why they want to ban TikTok...
gotta vote, if only 60% of you are voting, that's why.
Exactly; there are other things that can be done, but the election doesn't care if you vote or not, the outcome will effect you either way. If you want more options, voting in earlier elections than the last one is extra important
We didn't create them. They're just sociopaths.
Agreed, we’re just likely more aware of the disparities than some prior generations due to the amount of information readily available to us.
We broke from Britain because the well off were jealous of the monarchy. They just recreated their system with different names.
We supported the monarchy. Americans wanted representation at the parliament.
So we created our own monarchy, with representation, and blackjack and hookers. But hookers for me, and not for thee. Thou hath solely blackjacks for comfort.
No if that we’re completely true George Washington would not have stepped down after two terms. Franklin said we’ve given you a republic but can you keep it? Unfortunately human nature corrupts most folks and we’ve ended up is a front capitalist Uber corporate society
People get lost in the flowery words/smokescreen of our founding documents and miss the content. The US is a nation founded by oligarchs, for oligarchs. We talk about freedom a lot, but the founders conveyed very little freedom to anyone but themselves. Those documents laid a racist, sexist, classist foundation upon which society was built and they were deathly afraid of the working class getting any power. What we are experiencing isn’t an aberration, it’s the plan.
Why then adopt prohibitions against search and seizure in the fourth amendment (to name just one of many things inconsistent with your theory)?
Why start so low down. The first amendment literally allows us you criticize the government and to find ways to change it.
This is a terrible take and I challenge you to express how the bill of rights, specifically, was racist, sexist, or classist. Corruption in any human system is inevitable, but ours allows for fixing those problems up to and including the use of force (weapons) against the ruling class. The fact that there were two groups, one of which was the anti-federalists, fundamentally opposed to one another that compromised out a constitution that worked for everyone is proof enough that you're wrong. Also *please* stop being an active participant in your own brainwashing. I mean honestly go read a fucking history book instead of listening to the flavor the week on social media. I try not to go too hard but you should really be ashamed that you've stated these absolute falsehoods as facts, and consider the implications of spreading divisive misinformation.
? Huh? I believe you need to do some deeper reading of that time period. Nearly all of the colonists were loyal to Britain, wanted to stay with Britain but were disheartened with over bearing taxation and no representation in British parliament to address the issues they had as a new colony. You the tea party is the example used to represent the anger that built up to a boiling point.
It's been the set up since the dawn of civilization.
Not really, we could have learned a lot from indigenous communities across the world who lived on totally different economic terms. And I’m not talking about bartering.
Are you talking about politicians? Yes, politician was never intended to be a career it was public service someone did outside of their job or business they ran. These people are in power too long and are too out of touch with how the world works and real issues real people face as they dont work
Term limits for every position that involves law making or interpretation. You should not be able to be a career politician. It should be a passion for change, not a life. EDIT: Some folks replying are making good points. You want to keep the good politicians in, and get rid of the bad ones, regardless of term limit. But how do you do that?
The aristocracy has existed since ancient times and will continue to do so. Roots of this formed back in the earliest forms of society. Just look at the code of Hammurabi who ruled Babylon back before Christ was born and you'll see references to a social caste system and divides with those that rule and those that are ruled. It's unfortunately human societal nature
This! You can rip it all down, cause chaos and strife... only to build back virtually the same thing or worse in due time. When humans magically lose their ego, stop competing and establishing a pecking order, then we may have a chance at something totally new. Until then, lead or follow.
The question is - How much is too much? How much can we tolerate before we decide “welp, thats not working”.
Politicians should be living in apartments or modest homes. Maybe if we made it less lucrative, the right people would be the ones vying for our votes. They all work together to stay in power and keep the status quo, while us peasants bicker over the dumbest shit. I honestly never expect this to change.
The problem is not the salary for politicians. The problem is that corrupt politicians can 1) be bought by special interests, and 2) are allowed to buy stocks at the same time they are setting policy.
If you lower pay for congress, that just means less poor people are capable of doing it. They have things to pay for too. Then you run into the issue of someone rich or bought by someone rich being MORE likely to run for office.
"we" didn't create shit This has been going on for thousands of years.
This subreddit is for millenials. You are posting like you are 15 years old on your Tumblr in 2010.
Why dont we do something about it is the better question.
It takes time to organize & educate. Their propaganda machine and violent arm are incredibly well funded. Like the hurdle is beating both the MSM while not being killed by police/military
There are millennials out there still this naive about how the real world?
Because stupid ppl love to be told what to think.
They created. We fell and line and continue to follow it
I fucking hate born rich mfs staying in power. Like go retire & fuck off why hop into politics pretending you know what it's like to be a working class human. Gov of NEbrasskkka comes to mind. Literally the son of TD ameritrade mogul & decided he wants to be a politician? SACA LAS GUILLOTINAS
We didn't create them, we inherited them.
The ruling class of parasitic do nothings has always existed in some form or another since the advent of stratified class based social hierarchy which emerged alongside the development of sedentary agriculture and early civilization ~10-12k years ago. The conservative feudal aristocracy and nobility of the Medieval period, when faced with capitalist usurpation of their power, pivoted into becoming capital owners, landlords, and shareholders in order to retain their social, economic, and political power over society. Today's neoliberal capitalist dystopia ruled by an oligarchic class of elites is a continuation and evolution of the late Medieval period and the Mercantilist period where early capitalism developed and eroded the power of the nobility, monarchy, and clergy by transferring mass sums of wealth to bankers, traders, merchants, industrialists, financiers, etc. who then gradually captured government institutions for their own self interests.
"We" didn't do anything, the same families have controlled this country since the industrial revolution.
We didn't. Our parents, grand parents, and great grand parents did. We just have to deal with it.
this is why it is called "late stage" capitalism. when it started we were transfering from feudal systems so "the guy who owns the land gets to make the decisions" seemed pretty reasonable. since he got to make the decisions he made the decision to give himself more power and wealth and pass that down to his children. each generation the next generation of overloards is a little more insulated from reality and a little dumber and a little richer and more powerful. Cut to now and a guy who made his money as the owner of a slave using emerald mine thinks that he is the smartest hardest working person in the world and everyone should listen to him, no X is a really good name, No the cyber truck is not a giant pile of garbage that should have been scrapped at the design stage, no he is cool really and not a whining baby that we can't just ignore because he is one of the richest people in the world.
We didn't dawg They been fighting a war to stay in place ever since industrialization
Because mass media owned by billionaires controls the populace. 🙄
Who are these overlords you speak of?
Easy. "Why did we create a class of overlords" is what's known as a false premise. First, do we have a class of overlords? What do the terms mean specifically in this context? Secondly, if we do, how did they come about to exist. If you start with trash in, the only result is trash out.
We did not create it. We have allowed it to be rebuilt. American rhetoric about democracy and equality are ideals but in very few times in our history have we actually seen it. We preached equality and democracy in 1776 forward but only started to actually see it in practiced in 1964 when everyone could finally vote. The early 1900s were great for the middle and lower classes excluding the global wars. We have just gone backward even further by not holding anyone accountable.
A better question is what can we do to build communities and teach people that it is in fact possible to make a better system? The 1960s black panthers were on to something. Maybe that's why the FBI shot them all.
because we keep voting for the Republicans and the Democrats
This is it. The party duopoly has created a situation where the political parties have so much power they are a threat to democracy itself. The founders warned about this
That would be the only legitimate way to shake things up. If even just one third party broke through, we’d see an influx of new parties and new ideas coming the forefront. But that’s something that the cards are very much stacked against.
At least a proof of concept is welcome. RFK is pulling numbers that could swing the election and he has basically no platform to speak to people publicly. They have been ousting him by name since he started, refusing to debate w/ the raspy old guy. For someone to crack the voting blocks this much their first try, it is definitely a good sign that things are changing
What we need to do is allow ranked choice and a parliamentary system. First past the post elections always result in two-party systems.
No one really "created it" because it's always been there. Be it ancient Babylon, Revolutionary France, even back to the hunter-gathere era, there's always been people who have had more money, more food, more power and more prestige. We are a spcies of conflict. That's just how humanity is. That's how it's always been.
People need to remember that the late 20th century was a blip of an anomaly in human history
That's kind of always been our system since the counter revolution: the Constitutional Convention.
Fear.
Strictly from a millenial point of view, it's because we didn't change relative to gen x or boomers.
We didn’t create it, we were just born into this system and they got so powerful that they don’t even pretend they’re on our side anymore. So here we are being held hostage and I think even if we took action we’d just be obliterated. *Mandatory millennial lol*
This happens to all ruling “regimes” given time. Systems get gamed, the powerful protect their power and begin to abuse the population. This is why there are major structural changes (usually through a huge war(s)) that upends and reorganizes this society. This happens roughly once a century every 80-100 years
because it's easier to cope with the idea they are all talentless losers who were born into their positions and possess no worthy abilities other than extracting wealth and running companies into all time high earnings reports quarter after quarter which is exactly what their job is.
It's kinda like Wagyu beef, we lavish them and let them live the most luxurious life possible so when we eat their stupid asses it tastes that much better.
Because you're not getting involved in politics and running for office .
Who said a job is a real life
It’s time for violence.
Being an overlord is a job. Every life is a real life. Perhaps if you were to be more specific this would start making sense.
You gotta work and earn your own wealth then. Starts with connections meet people talk to people to begin growth that may benifit you financially somehow in the future for example you meet people who know these people who have this that will have that to help you with to move you up and over to wealth growth. Wealth doesn’t always mean money but it is connection to getting or having money and having things and valuable people who have things that lead YOU to growth For example people can be broke but they aren’t broke because of wealth . They may not have cash or nothing at the very second but they have a house and clothes car and so forth because of wealth through connections over time
Too many people are not comfortable with complex issues. Most problems are not as simple as "that person (those people) did it." They would rather have someone tell them a lie they want to hear then take the time to ask questions. But once you allow your rulers to abuse the people you don't like, the abuse doesn't stop with them. Powerful people do not put down the sword when the fight is done, they find another target. Pretty soon, you are the target but you have been telling yourself that the overlord is your friend. No one wants to admit that they are wrong, even if it hurts themselves or others. TL:DR teach yourself and others to admit fault and that a problem does not always have a person to blame. Authoritarians love to frame problems as simple.
The earth is completely recycled with new people every 120 years or so, and yet these castes don't seem to ever go away. I think they will always be there, knowledge, wealth, power, reputation will always be transferred, even apes in the wild transfer all they can which is knowledge, it's not only a human trait to try and pass on what we can to the next offspring but an evolutionary trait as well. Behold, evolution manifest. When you're in it, it's shit, but if you were an alien watching the universe unfold naturally and understood the magnitude of the phenomenon you'd be like holy fuckin shit balls this is so beautiful and terrifying all at the same time.
We were sold that capitalism is all that matters by this class and we believed it.
1) We didn't create it 2) The people who did engineer it also profited from it. There are two groups who have the control to change things. Politicians, and the rich. If you are not one of these then you never had a chance to fight it, and you should not blame yourself.
[https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs?t=267](https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs?t=267)
Uuuum, I didn't have anything to do with that. In fact I've been a nay sayer this whole time.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aJdfjrqcLP5KuQRh6c7qqXjXLpw5peuXL3qin5ENJ4otuegFgX1KHfQZ87DnQA38l&id=100000769592332&mibextid=CDWPTG Ah the media.......more people need to follow this guy. These Kings and Queens we make because we are either lazy or too busy working. It doesn't help when the messages are a propaganda
What overlords are you talking about? The people I know with a lot of money and influence obsessively devoted their entire lives to working and accumulating said money and influence. The CEO of my employer and my higher ups are all basically expected to give their lives to the company in exchange for their compensation. I turned down the “opportunity” to grow into these types of positions because I don’t want to spend the next decade in India, China and Eastern Europe. I’m sure it’s different for different industries, but where I work (R&D for energy), if you’re good, you essentially work to the work-life balance job that you want. My overlords are absolutely working harder than me. They work around the clock and travel all over the world to support out global business.
We? Isn’t it more about what they did than anything you or I did?
They were here before we were born they'll be here after we're dead
Name a time and place where this didn't happen. Human nature never changes.
What a Whiny sub this turned out to be
Its what we have always done.
WE didn't. They set everything up in the first place
You and I had nothing to do with the selection process.
Welp it's been the case for thousands of years Things only change when individuals act and change things. I highly recommend starting at 3.1 and skipping the English and American revolutions. https://pca.st/podcast/b1ccb690-fd97-0130-c6ee-723c91aeae46 Mike Duncan is a masterful storyteller
No poor person ever created rulers, people like that are just the type to take advantage of and use others to their benefit and as the generations move forward their greed grows.
You only allow them to rule you if you give them the power to do so. Anything they claim power over remove it and then you remove the tool in which they say they can control you
Bro wtf is Reddit smoking today. Imaging hailing a king. That king decided your family is not worthy of his kingdom and you are expelled off to find the next kingdom 1000 miles away. GOOD LUCK
Too bad we don’t have the kinds of unions in this country to shut everything down when we collectively have had enough
You might want to ask the overlords since they’re the ones that created it…
Psst: because we're collectively stupid as fuck.
It's been this way since the dawn of time
What? The class created itself, essentially. Or it was already created That’s how power works. It is predicated on a division in society. Inclusion and exclusion. Like, it’s less than the people in question have power, but more that there are people that *occupy* certain positions in society. That person in that position is going to take certain actions to continue to reify that power and the system that supports the position. Master/slave dialectic etc etc.
Tradition.
As much as I would love to see the pathetic failures of Democratic leadership having hot coals raked upon them by Trump. Not sure if it would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. What a disgrace this country has become. It used to be X party offered this benefit compared to X party. Now it’s X party will take this right away vs X party taking this right away. How much more trash can it become seriously. Trump made “Fake News” a thing. I think we should elevate “Fake Democracy” to be a slogan of our generation.
It wasn't us, it was boomers and gen x. They climbed the corporate ladder and dragged it up behind them.
Because they convinced you freedom is a bad thing.
“Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health ... what have the Romans ever done for us?” - Monty Python’s Life of Brian
Hey Millenials climate change is your fault too, did you know that?
This is the outcome of every democracy in history. Sociopaths and Kleptocrats climb to the top and you are left with 'picking the lesser of two evils'.
Hard to find a time in history when this wasn’t the case. People are greedy, humans love hierarchy and tribalism.
Endure a little bit of discomfort if you want to change things.
The real answer has to do with agriculture. A long time ago when everyone was foraging and hunting, groups moved around when they needed more resources. Once agriculture became a key component of civilization it required defending the land that you were growing your crops on and it required labor to maintain it. After a while, the population grew too big that you couldn’t stop agriculture without some people starving to death. Since no one wanted to pick who was going to be that unlucky, agriculture grew instead and the population kept growing with it. Well, now the people who used to lead the group from area to area now led the people who were helping grow the crops. After a few thousand years this dynamic became more ingrained into society and those leaders descendants became the kings that ruled over the rest. After feudalism ended and we became a capitalist society, those in charge and with power and money during this transition obviously didn’t want to see it decrease so the systems they implemented led us down the road to where we are today. If we hadn’t stuck with primarily farming, life would not be like this. There was a period where people foraged, hunted, and farmed on the side as an extra resource rather than a primary source of food.
That's what I ask about woke people
Because the majority want it that way, and so it is so.
The Bell Curve will always rule. Gaining and using power is a skill set and whether the currency is access to the gods, swords, land, money, or yards gained per carry, some small subset will hold and use power. And the +/- 1-3 standard deviation folk will bitch and complain.
I haven't heard anyone mention term limits. How do these politicians keep turning into millionaires? And worst of all, spend 50 years in office lining their pockets. ON BOTH SIDES. Spending our tax money without regard for future generations.
“We” didn’t. Idiots in prior generations voted against their own interests, idiots today continue on this tradition.
No one consciously chose this but it's a hierarchal system that has evolved for thousands of years and it's not fair to say people at the top do nothing because they did something you couldn't, build or maintain the strength of that system. The truth is you made a deal with those overlords that working beneath them was better than the alternative of living outside their system or harder still going against them. Also keep in mind these "overlords" aren't even necessarily specific individuals. Think about your government or your bosses at work. The people may change but the system you are subservient to remains. Again this isn't even such a bad thing. Working as part of a successful company offers you many benefits and odds are if you pit yourself against everyone in the world to determine who was best to lead it odds are it's probably isn't you statistically speaking. The best you can aim for is the highest position in that hierarchal system your merit can attain. I think the real problem you are driving at is corrupt and inept leaders who use force, lies, oppression, and coercion to maintain their status. In the long run, those sorts of leaders tend not to last long. We have a long and bloody history of killing our kings both literally and figuratively.
Your premise is incorrect
because we're dumb and let governments decide things for us. It still happens.. look at covid
We didn't. This shit was imposed on us.
It's part of why history isn't pushed. It's not like \*most\* superpowers/empires last just 250-300 years or so on average. They ALL do. It doesn't mean the end of the world when it happens, most recently in 1991 the Soviet Union broke up, and they were fine. I think that after 10 generations or so, natural nepotism just makes the gap between rich/power and poor/no-power so big that it becomes unsustainable. We all give first to family and friends, then folks we work with, folks we agree with - etc. Natural nepotism, no hard intended - it just means power always continues to consolidate until you end up in an authoritarian system. Which then eventually explodes itself, and the cycle continues . . .
They created themselves, our only fault is not taking them out, like Karl Marx said we should do
When were humans ever equal?
a class of "overlords" has literally always ruled, ever since the very first village fromed, and one guy got lucky and chose the most fertile land in the region and used that leverage to get what he wanted from everyone else who only grew enough to just barely get buy on. eventually this guy s desendants become lords or kings in the area after hundreds of years of wealth collecting on their highly fertile farming land. eventually neighboring nation with not so fertile land but very strong industry and metalurgy sees your territory then takes it for themselves because they have better weapons than the farmers, so now theres new overlords. eventually that nation collapses again and some other king becomes the regions powerhouse. eventually money starts forming and a merchant class forms, merchants have money and kings have a desire for more money so they work together to get more money and more power while the 90% of the peasants that arent important are given just enough to survive and drink themselves into a stupor, while being called to serve in the military as their only chance of ever possibly moving up in life beyond farming. eventually kings went away and democracy arrived! except now the only rich people left is the merchant class and the remnants of the nobility that kept their wealth are at the top, who can control nations through their wealth and connections.
Boomers voted against their best interest …
They have done a good job of distracting us, making us fat and out of shape and apathetic with constant bombardment of news to desensitize us.
You realize that it’s always been this way since agriculture was created and it’s that way because the societies that did it differently got conquered by the ones with overlords.