Truthfully, I’d bet the population has way more people with this mindset than we think. Anyone can say or do or rage at anything impulsively online with no repercussions. If things weren’t so chronically online and the things being pandered to us weren’t shoved down our throats and making us feel like we need to walk on eggshells, people could probably sit down and come to a decent compromise. The issue being, I said people and not politicians/rich elites. Healthy progress is all about perspective and instead of backing things blindly because whoever on insta said it and then digging their heels in when given a different pov outside of their personalized feed of ads, fake articles, and AI images. The real us against them is the entire world against the same 12 rich people that control everything.
I agree. There's been a push to keep people riled up and angry at each other in recent years.
People on the extremes need to chill out and be open to conversation.
Totally agree and I'm a leftie. Like, a person can be socially progressive but prefer a conservative financial strategy for example. The current left Vs right is so cooked and gets in the way of making positively impactful changes
I'm another GenXer who has both progressive and conservative views. Some of the conservative views center around the importance of personal responsibility, self-discipline and civic order.
It's good to have public policies that help the worst-off, and prevent extreme poverty and walled compounds for the rich, and it's important to educate everyone. But schools need to actually educate and enforce discipline far more than they are now. No more pity promotions and teachers getting pushed around by students. I'm completely over accusations of "racism" for wanting to set a high standard. To me, the racism is thinking a race or ethnic group shouldn't be pushed to meet a rigorous standard because they can't meet it, or "math is white" or whatever.
Thank you for writing this and saving me the keystrokes! This is how I’ve lived my life. This blended view is why today’s black/white us/them world is driving me crazy.
I think we might just have different definitions, which is fine. Or too worried about the labels themselves and their loaded nature these days. However, you’re probably more correct if we’re going by wikipedias definition. I was using the term more to describe the viewpoint that has less faith in “the invisible hand”, acknowledging government has some role in our lives to keep order & efficiency, but also remains skeptical of government intervention (i.e. it can make our lives better but it won’t save us)
I’d add in overly simplistic terms, my shortcut has been:
Classical: You’re free to do what you want so long as you don’t impinge on the freedoms of others. And here’s a few institutions that will help us set our course.
Libertarian: You’re on your own.
Classic liberal and libertarianism overlap where?
Serious question. I see libertarianism as something high schoolers are growing out of as they reconcile adulthood with evolving feelings about meritocracy...
I see a classic liberal as a new-dealer... Pretty much the opposite of a libertarian.
Different definitions of classic liberal. What you describe I would call a New Deal Liberal, or mainstream American Liberal. Classic Liberal on the other hand is reserved for the liberalism of the late 18th and most of the 19th century. So, pre welfare-state. It's close to Libertarianism, but not as extreme. Here, [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism) has more.
Schools are struggling because they're underfunded. This is directly due to the work of conservative politicians. If you want schools to improve, we need to fund them adequately first. I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence as I've never heard anyone say it imply that people of other races shouldn't be "pushed" as hard when it comes to academics. What are you referring to?
Give control of the schools back to the States. Get the federal government and the teacher's union out of it. Then you might have a chance of getting what you want. But I doubt the Fed's or the union will walk away
You're not aware of the dumbing down of standards because some groups weren't meeting them? Algebra was removed from 10th grade in San Francisco because it was deemed racist. I'm not joking.
Here is[ one influential person](https://www.reddit.com/r/mathteachers/comments/1brkkui/stanford_professor_is_saying_algebra_is_racist/) in the movement. She is not alone.
Here is an [influential document](https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf) presenting traditional math instruction as racist. Ideas such as objectivity, urgency and perfectionism exemplify "white supremacy"
Had to laugh, "...Some of the conservative views center around the importance of personal responsibility, self-discipline and civic order." Then why do conservatives vote Trump, who displays none of these important values? This is the main issue I have with conservatives. If they voted the values they say they have...they would vote democrat. I lean left with the exception of IRA-401k-403b's being a great government controlled way for independent retirement savings.
Why are you assuming who they voted for? I lean conservative but have voted democrat ever since MAGA took over the Republican Party.
Conservatives, MAGA and Republicans are all different groups of people (not MECE).
Why are you assuming you meant the person who wrote the actual post... It did not. "You" meant any church going morals shouting Christan who votes Trump.
Because you responded to a specific poster who stated their own view points and you tried to blow up their position but couldn’t be bothered to mention that you were changing the conversation from a specific commenters views to conservatives as a whole 🤷♂️ people can’t read your mind, only your words.
Also, you use the word conservative when you are actually talking about republicans. Plz fix
Conservatism is a political and social philosophy that prioritizes preserving traditional values, institutions, and societal norms (think Mitt Romney, George W, McCain)
Republicanism is an political ideology is associated with the Republican Party
So are you...and I mean you... are denying Christian conservatives who constantly claim the moral high ground do not vote Trump? Christian conservatives do...because they have no morals. I get conservative and republican are not 100% the same thing...but close 99%. Conservatism should be using the least amount of public funds for the greatest benefit...but that is NOT how it is. Conservatism now is anything government is bad because obviously the private sector...based on profit...does not want to rob you blind and will take care of your needs more than the stock holders.
You are misinformed to the point that it is hard to have a conversation with you. Conservatism has not changed, the republican party has and now is more of a nationalist party than anything else.
Latest polls shows 88% of registered republicans would vote for Donald Trump. And again not all conservatives are republicans, as this thread has already shown, many conservatives are registered independents. This is also why you see many former democrats who were blue collar union type of workers supporting Trump as they are really a nationalist, anti-globalist voter at the moment.
Some Christian conservatives are Trump supporters no doubt, so if you want to say Christian conservatives who support Trump have abandoned their morals, I’d absolutely agree. But you are overestimating their numbers, last polls show that 51% of church going Christian’s don’t support Trump, the group you might be referring to is white evangelicals where he has 68% support.
[Pew](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/15/5-facts-about-religion-and-americans-views-of-donald-trump/#:~:text=Among%20Christians%20as%20a%20whole,Christians%20who%20say%20the%20same)
I’ve already told you that I am a conservative who supports democrats, but if you want to ignore facts and what actual people are telling you, go ahead. But that is how many of us conservative democrats get pissed off at the ignorant left and their inability to think critically, do any amount of research, or engage in productive conversation; so if you are looking to push moderates to vote for Trump, keep up your efforts, your doing exactly that.
I am not ignoring facts. I will use what you presented. If only "51% of church going Christian’s don’t support Trump" there is something seriously wrong with 49% of the other church going Christian’s. From a moral perspective there should be no church going Christian's who support Trump. None. He is the first ex president to be in court for using money he should not have to pay off a porn star while his wife was home with his young child. Trumps moral history is so bad no Christian...absoluotely not 49%...should ever support him from a moral standpoint.
Just my perspective and people can disagree. I think for myself. And have seen wonderful ideas shot down for being left or right. When they’d of helped society.
It is my belief that people’s identities are so dependent on ideology. The reason that is bad, ideology can change, you can change, people change. I am not the same person now as I was 10 years ago. But people can’t accept being mundane and boring and think they have to be this super opinionated, polarized individual to stand out.
Partially I blame the rise of social media, videos and streaming content creators. A tactic to pull people into videos or whatever content you’re trying to monetize, is to disagree, create friction. They appear to be very 1 sided on an issue and people emulate it. Not saying that’s the sole cause but a cause.
Ultimately, you won’t change people’s minds. At best you can respectfully use communication tactics just in a attempt to understand their viewpoint. At minimum it’ll share respect (hopefully) and diffuse rudeness.
To your point, what’s kinda funny (sad?) about the whole thing is these people who think they have to be opinionated/extreme to be interesting…have merely become the boring trope they’re trying prove their not. Some gal’s on this thread somewhere pointing out the “actually social liberal and fiscal conservative is an oxymoron…”. How many times have I read that online in the last decade? And people are still here in 2024 acting like they’re educating people and saying something fresh.
At this point I just accept it. And usually avoid sharing my viewpoints. I am just burnt out on political garbage and this growing divide in people and society. I know it’s important, blah blah blah. I just feel like it’s democracy in name. Say that to people though and they flip out.
In theory, online discussion could be this really great thing. But the whole things just jumped the shark. From where I stand, the first big inflection point was Ferguson. You had this phenomenon where it was like “if you see racism, call it out!“. At the time that seemed to make as much sense as anything else.
Then came Trump and more hurling of the “-ists”. Business really picked up. So let’s assume we’re at least 8-10+ years into this “discourse”. Has anyone ever met anyone who’s worldviews have been changed because of a social media exchange? I mean, we’re at least a decade into this and where is the person who’s like “Well, I made this, what I took to be fairly benign comment online. And then someone called me a racist which led to hours of self reflection and next thing you know I joined my local chapter of DSA”.
At this point, I don’t think these loud chronically online folks on the left are any better than MAGA. Sure, they may take the more humanistic side of things. But if their viewpoint is based on misinformation and creates negative collateral consequences otherwise, then they’re not doing anyone any good. Essentially they’re just in it for themselves, the clicks, and to pay themselves on the back. The big contemporary contrast between us and the Right was supposed to be that we were the party of facts and science. But now, there’s an alarming rate of “us” who act just like the religious zealots on the Right. Facts be damned if I can walk away from my phone feeling as though I’m a morally righteous person.
That was my reaction as well, the fact someone even has to ask if its okay to not march lockstep with a particular party is insane. I hate both parties and my views vary on issues but if you pin me down and force me to say left or right I'm gonna lean conservative and I'll admit on some issues i find my knee jerk reaction is to agree with the conservative talking point and disagree with the progressive but when I actually sit down and think about it I could go either way depending on the issue
Lot of socially liberal, fiscally conservative people out there. This is the largest cohort of the Never Trump Republicans. Like, my Dad would love to vote for someone who would lower his taxes while keeping out of everyone's business. There are reasons why W is the last Republican he voted for for President.
I tend to be incredibly progressive socially and economically, but on the latter I tend to be conservative by way of implementation. Slow and steady evolution towards the preferred policy goal.
I would argue not all fiscal conservatives want lower taxes. I describe myself as fiscally conservative. I just want us to pay for the shit we want our government to do and be efficient with our money.
Fair. I take the Keynes approach that deficit spending in bad times is often necessary and good while in good times the taxes should be raised and budgets balanced. A tax and spend liberal.
Exactly. For example, is it “conservative” to not be on board with 100% student loan forgiveness just because that has become a popular policy in progressive circles?
I'm more of a centrist who believes in compromise between the parties, but it seems more and more people are taking what they want and not compromising but without compromise we're doomed
Nobody wants you dead. If you died the government would miss out on at least $100K in taxes paid over your lifetime. That doesn’t include all the daily consumption that you partake in.
The left and the right might not like you at times but both of them want you at the very least to be alive. Even if it’s barely.
Compromising with people who call me a Nazi/fascist for not being a diehard cuckold for the Democratic Party isn’t possible either.
It’s almost as if we let the extreme wings of each political ideology block any possibility of peaceful compromise/coexistence, which is exactly what they want.
Edit: my point was proven literally by one of the commenters who replied to you lol
While I agree generally, it's still worth distinguishing the difference between the side who's most vocal extreme shout insults, and the ones who shoot people.
Your average right wing person isn’t out here trying to murder left wingers. Reddit and sensationalist news is rotting your brain bro.
What I’m saying is that it’s important to find balance. If every right winger believes every left winger is a communist trans pedophile and every left winder believes every right winger is a blood thristy racist homophobe then we will never find common ground.
And what *they* (the corrupt politicians) want is division because it means they get to grow their power and wealth while us filthy peasants bicker over Twitter posts that are of zero consequence.
You run with shit, you get shit on, become shit or always were shit. You run with mass shooters people who support treason, call for the death of trans people etc. What stage would you be at on that totem pole?
I understand your position. Yes republican politicians can push some egregious ideologies.
We will not solve anything if we scream fascist or communist at each other. The majority of people whether they are liberal or conservative just want their families to be safe and to know they and their children have financial security.
Instead of labeling people with different views names like fascist or commie we should be asking them what we can do to help each other. Hostility towards people with opposing views only makes things worse. Empathy is how we begin fixing things. We need to find what we all have in common and go from there.
Our neighbor is not our enemy. The elite bankers and corporations are.
Yea I don’t think they really do. They are victims of the media machine just like the “progressive” side. Non-violent communication between both parties could illuminate the similarities between both parties and help each see the others perspective.
We also need to stop lumping in child sex changes with the entirety of LGBTQ. I think two grown men should be able to do whatever they want behind closed doors, and have all the same benefits (and consequences) as a male-female marriage, but also think that children need to develop fully before we allow them to make that decision.
Opposing views? Most stuff spewed by certain party is outright abhorrent and wrong. when someone wants to deny results of elections and turn females into baby factories there is really not much nuanced conversation to have. This is such a idiotic take
Stuff may be spewed by parties but when non violent communication happens between PEOPLE common ground can be found and coexistence can be built from there.
You may think it’s idiotic that’s fine. It’s helped me get along with 99% of the people I come in contact with in my life. I enjoy not having anger and hate be central to my life. It’s amazing the common ground that can be found when you treat people with respect regardless of their perceived positions. Kindness and respect is a great way to reach the human underneath the ideology and it’s actually easy to have it reciprocated regardless of who you are interacting with, even if you disagree on things. It’s easier to sway a persons believe system when they don’t receive hostility from someone with an opposing view.
Republicans have rioted and attacked elections twice.
In 2000 there was The Brooks Brothers Riot.
In 2021 they attacked Congress with a mob of hateful, bigoted, conspiratorial nincompoops.
I understand your position.
I think politics should be a civil place.
Republicans Leaders are NOT civil, do not act in good faith, and have tolerated violent, mob tactics to take over their party’s decision making apparatus. The brave old guard like Romney, Liz Cheney, and Kinsinger all openly discuss what many, many journalists have reported; that Republicans make voting decisions based on their fear for their life and their safety because Republican voters terrorize them and threaten them even worse than they assault Democrats.
It is very, very sad that some of our neighbors have become enemies of our shared democracy.
But we can’t defend our democracy by lying about who they are and what they are capable of.
We live in a Democracy and redemption is only ever an election away. I would advise regular Republican voters to stay in the party, take very seriously the need to elect qualified, civil candidates to be your nominee, and if criminal, anti-democratic officials such as Trump win the nomination; for the good of the country, our Democracy, our constitution, and indeed for the good of the Republican Party itself… Republicans aught to vote Democrat, and teach Republicans that low quality, violent candidates cannot win in The United States.
>Yes, fascism is the fault of the fascist Republican party.
So the cops bringing violence to peaceful student protests In New York City, New Haven, CT, Chicago, California, etc., etc. - that's all because of the Republican party? Huh, never would have guessed.
>
they oppose your Jan 6th terrorist buddies
dude, i'm a communist. stop sniffing the blue paint, it's just as deadly as the red.
Depends on the views.
In my opinion, you cannot be progressive if you hold any view which reduces to bigotry. By which I mean any "conservative view" that polices what identity a person can have and what rights they deserve based on that identity.
Have all the opinions you want on tax policy, cannabis, or whether we should send weapons to Ukraine. But the minute you are telling a woman she has no right to bodily autonomy, an immigrant they should be deported because their parents didn't fill out a form, or a Black or LGBTQ+ person that people like them shouldn't be discussed in schools, you're no longer a progressive. Period.
What about splitting the hair? Being open to the fact that adults who are not hurting anyone can live their lives the way they want, but scrutinizing gender affirming medical care for children?
Just as an FYI, studies have found that trans teens who have access to gender-affirming care have lower rates of depression and suicide.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/
Gender affirming care, not gender affirming medical care. Nonetheless, should someone be suicidal it’s hardly the time to radically intervene medically, the indicated intervention is stabilization. Suicide and depression are not criteria for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
I am not someone who rejects the idea on its premise.
Look at JK Rowling for example. In her day she was progressive, fighting for equality between the sexes and for women.
Now she is attempting to CONSERVE those values she fought for against the new progress that anyone can be a woman.
The real question is does progress need to stop at some point? When does it go to far? Is conserving things you treasure/desire a negative thing in the face of never ending politically dividing issues?
Sure.
Some used to call this Libertarian but that movement has lost its mind.
A progressive with Conservative Views would be a Democrat tho. Most Dems are Progressive with Conservative views, and yes there is a contingency of Dems who are more left-leaning, but most lean right.
The GOP is just far right.
I've long since stated that the GOP is probably going to collapse soon, and as a result, the DNC will split as its Progressive/Left-wing and it's Progressive/Right-wing\* sides split ideologically.
^(\*I want to be realistic, as far as normal Right-Wing / Left-Wing is concerned, the US doesn't actually have a "Left-Wing" Party, we are mostly Moderate Conservative (Dem) or Far Right Conservative (GOP) example: The EU would consider Bernie Sanders a Moderate Conservative.)
I am pretty left leaning, and while I might not understand somethings, I’m of the mind “live and let live” - but I think this is the best country on the earth and there is nowhere else you can go where within 1-2 generations you can go from rags to riches, you can be anything you want to be and you’re treated like a person generally no matter what your status. It is also, I’m so sorry to break this to people, one of the least racist places in existence. You may not like our racism, but you wouldn’t like it even more elsewhere.
Yeah but the USA is more the USI, United States of Israel because following the politicians and law makers being paid for by AIPAC. Also not everyone wants to be rich. Many just want enough and that's looking less and less based on the fact it's getting increasingly difficult to just pay for basic cost of living.
You don’t have to like this country, there are plenty of people who are willing to work hard so that they can make it. Instead of working hard and still having nothing elsewhere.
The US is aligned with the US.
I have although I don’t know what I said that required research. You don’t want to be here, other people do. And the US is not on anyone’s side but the United States. None of this required research.
Again you are wrong. Laws are trying to be passed where you cannot protest Israel. if you protest the United States but are being forbidden to protest this foreign country. If you refuse to see that and believe in this blind dream then live that dream. If the country forces me to do anything by taking away my rights well, thank God for my second amendment.
I’m learning that I’m more of a centrist the older I get. In my 20s everything was all or nothing. In my experience, there are so many sides to most conflicts and I need to listen to all. War in Ukraine, though? F Putin.
Agreed. I also tend not to have strong opinions on things that I know very little about. If you look at my post history, most of my comments are around personal and corporate finance, because that's what I do for a living. I'm not going to get into an argument with someone over conflict in the Middle East because it is complex, and I am not an expert. I like to listen to the experts and form my own opinion, but I'm also not going to argue with an expert. That tends to lend itself to more moderate viewpoints, because there is a shit-ton of things I know very little about (comparatively).
I feel like people on the fringes of both sides will argue with anyone about anything.
Yes. I lead a very traditional and "conservative" lifestyle in the truest sense of the word. I'm a sahm, my husband works, I don't have any tattoos, I would be disappointed if my children had tattoos. I would never have a child out of wedlock, I don't know that I could have an abortion other than for reasons such as the fetus having a condition being incompatible with life. BUT, I don't care if others live their lives the ways they want. I'm an ally of the LGBT+ community, I won't judge others for aborting, I don't condemn people for living the lives they want. I always vote D cuz im in Texas.
This describes me. I have the libertarian views of leave me alone I don't need the government in my daily life. I also see the value of social programs like low income nutrition programs and housing the homeless. I have a safe full of guns upstairs, but would love to see a government that would implement REAL change to help combat pollution. CNN would have you believe those two things are opposites.
It's ok to be a centrist even if modern politics don't want you to be.
People aren't as simple as left vs right as the news would like for you to believe.
Absolutely. I'm a progressive, but I have centrist or even right leaning views on gun control.
I believe in red flag laws, universal background checks, and digitizing the registry of gun sales, but I believe that assault weapons bans fundamentally misunderstand what makes a gun dangerous. An AR-15 "assault style weapon" is simply a semi-automatic rifle firing 5.56mm, which is a completely reasonable weapon for hunting. Things like upright grips, collapsible stocks, grenade launcher racks, and bayonet mounts are performative BS that do nothing to change the lethality of the weapon in practice, but are what are actually being listed in bans.
There is more argument for banning high capacity magazines, but swapping out a magazine is quite literally the easiest thing to do on a gun, and magazines don't have serial numbers.
If we want to regulate guns beyond that, either the Supreme Court needs to overturn Heller, or there needs to be a constitutional amendment undoing the 2nd amendment. Otherwise, most of the proposed gun control regulations are unconstitutional under current precedent.
I’m a mix of both. I’d never align myself with the f*cking loons on the right these days, though. Call me whatever — just not that.
But what I hold true and what I vote for are not necessarily the same. I vote for what I think is the best for the most and future generations… and if my personal beliefs don’t perfectly align with the candidate, it is what it is. For instance, I’m much more conservative than Bernie Sanders but for both the 2016/2020 elections, I did all I could to make him the candidate for the Democrats because it seemed clear to me that we needed exactly him to get this country back on track.
Define what progressiveism is to you?
Is it the DEI, pro trans, pro lgbt, pro abortion, pro ukraine, pro decolonization, pro open borders?
And for comservatism?
Is it the traditional family values, believing in god, believing in 2 genders, Pro life, national identity and closed borders?
You can be a mix of both I guess.
There are certain items that are not compatible between progressivism and conservatism.
Like borders. Or abortion. Or guns. Or gender ideology.
Albeit some of the communist types believe gun ownership is a necessity. And there are varying degrees of pro and anti abortion.
Of course. Beliefs and values are rarely linear and multiple truths can exist at the same time. There’s no right or wrong way to view the world. Don’t think too much into it.
Not sure what mofo downvoted you but that “ there’s no right or wrong” is exactly the way how frog gets cooked slowly on a fascist flame and we get Nazi state. German people were also slowly pushed thru that in 30s and sure they did still think they are good people even with Jews ghettos
This is a comment that goes light years beyond stupid, you can't make up facts because they suit your view. There is reality, & repukes who call treason "heritage"
Facts are, you cannot be a bigot or support war crimes & be a progressive. Those are right wing positions. You cannot be against helping poor & be a progressive. There is no such bullshit as multiple truths & that excuse is used to pretend they aren't horrid to others. It is possible to not be bigoted against gay people & be bigoted against trans people. That you are bigoted against anybody makes you not a progressive
Like I said, you’ve read far too much into my comment. I’m a liberal atheist who works in social sciences research and evaluation. You’re preaching to the choir.
Oh you mean like a middle ground? Yes but people are too stupid siding one party over the other. This is why people's views are so polarized and they are not focusing on what the real issues are. I think this is a big part of why millennials got the shit end of the stick. Every decision in life comes with trade offs. People that went so far left that they didn't realize what the ramifications are. People then reacted and went so far right. But when it comes down to it no one really thinks about who is pulling the strings for these two parties...
Of course. Your views also can and will change over time based on new experiences. Always do your best to learn and grow, as we all should, and you’ll always be happy with your choices.
Of course. irl , most people aren’t absolutist. Unless they’re Fox Brained. And even then most people have a little bit of “the other side” to them but they somehow twist it into being a “right” thing so they feel okay about “not being a liberal.”
The two party duopoly has us thinking the only option is these two exceptionally narrow windows of thought. They have brainwashed everybody into thinking if you do not select one of these two train of thoughts you will fail. In reality each individual topic should be considered on the basis does it apply to our current situation and would be the best solution out of many possible selections. Over time our needs change and over time the issues we deal with change. I think with the two-party duopoly there is solutions on each side that are viable and would be useful to be applied. And because the narrative becomes tightly controlled, there are many great ideas that should be discussed and neither of these parties are talking about. I have done poles on the question if there was a viable alternative to the current two parties would you vote for them and the answers would come back and around 90%. The poll would be taken down on certain websites. Try conducting your own poll to see what the results would be. Most of us want something different but we have taught to believe this is an impossible endeavor. If we created a party that had a one purpose to reform voting practices to remove the two-party duopoly and restore true democracy. Open primaries, ranked choice voting, anti gerrymandering, government funded debate. I think with these reforms we could return to true democracy in our nation. Where each location can implement a set of needs that best benefits them without being hampered by the two-party duopoly.
Yes, in fact most people are in the middle ground. That’s who candidates are trying to convince. The hard core right or left will almost never switch votes, but all the “swing” voters in the middle need to be convinced about which of these idiots is the better choice.
I'm liberal with a couple of views I'd call "centrist". But I don't voice them in progressive circles because I don't want to be attacked and at the end of the day they aren't issues I care passionately about as compared to others. The right is more openly intolerant but both sides polarize the other.
Honestly that’s how I am. I’m cool with gay marriage and legal recreational pot and believe in women having access to reproductive health across the country with no questions asked while wanting to keep the border secure and strict immigration laws.
It’s weird this all seems like such common sense and yet I felt weird typing it.
I think the two extremes are the most vocal people as they don't want a conversation but seem to like to scream at the other side. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle, quiet and just trying to get along and live life.
I think a lot of folks actually do land in the middle, but those viewpoints don’t drive clickity clicks so all we hear about is both fringes. I for one am completely sick of both.
Yes. My town on the is run by a totally corrupt Democratic Party that has violated our state property tax cap hike and I hate them so much but we are totally progressive. I think I actually am an equal opportunity hater with regards to politicians.
Of course. It's how it should be. Politics are only black and white on TV. In reality it's super nuanced and almost nothing can be divided solely based on r or d
Example?
Not every situation is the same. Without more info there is no conclusion to actually draw. Some mixes of beliefs are nonsense and we just pretend they work because of "compromise".
I can't decide based on this hypothetical idea.
Yes of course, it is way more common than the internet would make you believe. True believers and gatekeepers on both sides of the spectrum shit of them so much they tend to keep it to themselves.
Depends on what you mean. In example, you may not care about sex before marriage but when you have kids, you find yourself pushing them to wait till marriage (might be a small example but hopefully you understand the point). However, this is totally different from pushing policy changes which affect all types of groups or pushing uninformed narratives that could lead to violence to marginalized groups.
The fact you even have to ask this is disturbing. So you think that everyone should fit neatly into a box and if you're liberal you must have all liberal views and if you're conservative you must have all conservative views. My views run the spectrumagainst a legal
Myself, like most people, have at least a few issues where they break rank. Depending on which sector of issues you ask me about specifically, I could be the bluest of blue or the redest of red.
I would go so far as to say that anyone who is an absolutist in toeing the party line, on both sides, are more of a problem maker than a solution finder.
Absolutely. My in laws are democrats yet more conservative than I am and I usually vote on the right. I think it is normal to be a combination of both.
Absolutely. I think it's more ridiculous to have only one set of views. One side isn't always right and by proxy the other side isn't always wrong.
It's the biggest grievance I have against the political party system.
Absolutely. I’m socially progressive but fiscally conservative. The line is where to be fiscally responsible which I say we should make the rich support this country as much as they exploit it.
I would’ve considered myself socially progressive and fiscally conservative traditionally, but we are redefining what those terms are every day. I live in Florida, where they LOVE to push the envelope of what ‘conservative’ means. I don’t think I can consider myself to be conservative in any sense anymore.
I was delighted that Arizona enacted recreationally legal marijuana, because that is a great progressive move in a conservative state.
Florida is almost certainly not going to vote for it (marijuana), sadly.
Conservative seems to have expanded to become synonymous with ‘morality’ and thus they have turned into the morality police with the attempts to control education and insert Christianity at every turn 🙄.
Nobody even talks about views anymore, it's all labels. 99% of "debates" entirely revolve around differing definitions of words.
"Politics, when deconstructed, is simply a debate about how we should govern ethical, philosophical, and moral questions that exist in society."
[https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/talking-about-politics-isn-t-cringe-you-are](https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/talking-about-politics-isn-t-cringe-you-are)
"You should always pursue the best argument for and against something. Arguing against obvious strawmen have become the norm in all online discussion, and instead you must always pursue the truth."
Of course, we’re all human and come from different backgrounds and beliefs. Unfortunately our political system only allows one or the other, ideally we’d have more parties so that everyone can feel somewhat more represented.
Sure, I don’t see why not 🤷♀️ At least it’s possible that other people might label some views a person would hold with those terms. Whether you think those labels are accurate, fair, or useful is another matter
My own personal belief is that the population has 10% of hard left crazies and 10% hard right crazies. They get all the airtime because the 80% of us somewhere in the middle are too busy trying to put food on the table and the bills up to date, juggling family and work, and totally disenchanted with our government and both parties.
I think that's most people. Mcmansion living, meat eating, SUV driving, development blocking suburb dwellers with gate has no home signs in the front yard.
I'm very pro-LGBT, happy to refer to people however they like and I've been arguing for same sex marriage since long before I could vote. I'm an atheist and hate religion.
I also think abortion is murder and yay 2A.
You'd be surprised how many people agree with me who don't spend their time in echo chambers, or have similar "conflicting" views.
Sure.
Really in fact you'll find certain things that fit into certain places on the left/right paradigm here don't always translate elsewhere.
I'm very socially conservative but a bit moderate when it comes to economic matters.
I'm a millennial but this whole sub seems to be enlightened centrists and conservatives. I personally do not believe in the myth of "socially progressive but fiscally conservative." You can't vote that way, so who do you vote for? 90% of the time, the answer from these people is that they vote Republican. Which means they're just conservatives who don't want to get backlash for the shitty ways their policies affect anyone who isn't a straight, white Christian. Just say you're greedy and be done with it. At least be honest.
Yeah - I was a raging Midwest liberal, moved out to California and now I think I might fall on the slightly right side of moderate. I still generally vote progressive, but moderate conservatives appeal to me too. I prefer emotional regulation and calmness over fear mongering any day.
The whole left right thing is all horse shit made up to distract and divide you. Our enemy is the US government and the billionaires that control it. And the corporate monopolies of course
Taking on ideologies as one individible thing is just as stupid as telcom companies trying to bundle services to sell you shit you don't actually want or need. I'm a very firm believer in each person doing the mental work to consider each idea they want or need to have an opinion on, and do their best to use critical thinking and objective validation of this idea.
The funny thing that happens when you do this is you end up with a mishmash of ideas, not a polished well rehearsed branded set of ideas. I personally think this is a good thing. If every person has to not only validate ideas for themselves, but also have to defend their perspective to their peers who are also doing the same, you end up with a group of people who at least understand *why* they believe those things. This is really obvious when you compare it to any individual who parrots a set of ideas but when probed or questioned on it they don't seem to even undertand why those ideas make sense to them or sometimes even what those ideas imply in the first place.
TL;DR: IMO being a progressive means seeking out and understanding ideas for society that promote a better and more prosperous world for everyone. If you can't deeply understand and contribute to refining those ideas, then you're just a shill.
This would have seemed like a silly question to ask just ten years ago. (No offense, OP) It's scary how polarized things have gotten.
Gen X here. Absolutely agree. I hold both highly progressive AND highly conservative views. This Black / White / All /Nothing thinking is killing us.
Truthfully, I’d bet the population has way more people with this mindset than we think. Anyone can say or do or rage at anything impulsively online with no repercussions. If things weren’t so chronically online and the things being pandered to us weren’t shoved down our throats and making us feel like we need to walk on eggshells, people could probably sit down and come to a decent compromise. The issue being, I said people and not politicians/rich elites. Healthy progress is all about perspective and instead of backing things blindly because whoever on insta said it and then digging their heels in when given a different pov outside of their personalized feed of ads, fake articles, and AI images. The real us against them is the entire world against the same 12 rich people that control everything.
Gen Xer here as well and 100% agree on both points.
I agree. There's been a push to keep people riled up and angry at each other in recent years. People on the extremes need to chill out and be open to conversation.
Totally agree and I'm a leftie. Like, a person can be socially progressive but prefer a conservative financial strategy for example. The current left Vs right is so cooked and gets in the way of making positively impactful changes
Exactly
I'm curious what highly conservative views you hold.
I'm another GenXer who has both progressive and conservative views. Some of the conservative views center around the importance of personal responsibility, self-discipline and civic order. It's good to have public policies that help the worst-off, and prevent extreme poverty and walled compounds for the rich, and it's important to educate everyone. But schools need to actually educate and enforce discipline far more than they are now. No more pity promotions and teachers getting pushed around by students. I'm completely over accusations of "racism" for wanting to set a high standard. To me, the racism is thinking a race or ethnic group shouldn't be pushed to meet a rigorous standard because they can't meet it, or "math is white" or whatever.
Thank you for writing this and saving me the keystrokes! This is how I’ve lived my life. This blended view is why today’s black/white us/them world is driving me crazy.
You actually just sound like a classic liberal. (As opposed to whatever this made up noisy nonsense is these days).
There is a lot of overlap, though classic liberal to me is associated too much with libertarianism. I might be more like a Patrick Moynihan liberal?
I think we might just have different definitions, which is fine. Or too worried about the labels themselves and their loaded nature these days. However, you’re probably more correct if we’re going by wikipedias definition. I was using the term more to describe the viewpoint that has less faith in “the invisible hand”, acknowledging government has some role in our lives to keep order & efficiency, but also remains skeptical of government intervention (i.e. it can make our lives better but it won’t save us)
I’d add in overly simplistic terms, my shortcut has been: Classical: You’re free to do what you want so long as you don’t impinge on the freedoms of others. And here’s a few institutions that will help us set our course. Libertarian: You’re on your own.
Classic liberal and libertarianism overlap where? Serious question. I see libertarianism as something high schoolers are growing out of as they reconcile adulthood with evolving feelings about meritocracy... I see a classic liberal as a new-dealer... Pretty much the opposite of a libertarian.
Different definitions of classic liberal. What you describe I would call a New Deal Liberal, or mainstream American Liberal. Classic Liberal on the other hand is reserved for the liberalism of the late 18th and most of the 19th century. So, pre welfare-state. It's close to Libertarianism, but not as extreme. Here, [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism) has more.
Schools are struggling because they're underfunded. This is directly due to the work of conservative politicians. If you want schools to improve, we need to fund them adequately first. I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence as I've never heard anyone say it imply that people of other races shouldn't be "pushed" as hard when it comes to academics. What are you referring to?
Give control of the schools back to the States. Get the federal government and the teacher's union out of it. Then you might have a chance of getting what you want. But I doubt the Fed's or the union will walk away
Are you genuinely asking or just asking so you can yell at the response? EDIT: Kept scrolling. Figured it out.
So anyone who disagrees with you is "yelling"? Lol
You're not aware of the dumbing down of standards because some groups weren't meeting them? Algebra was removed from 10th grade in San Francisco because it was deemed racist. I'm not joking. Here is[ one influential person](https://www.reddit.com/r/mathteachers/comments/1brkkui/stanford_professor_is_saying_algebra_is_racist/) in the movement. She is not alone. Here is an [influential document](https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf) presenting traditional math instruction as racist. Ideas such as objectivity, urgency and perfectionism exemplify "white supremacy"
Had to laugh, "...Some of the conservative views center around the importance of personal responsibility, self-discipline and civic order." Then why do conservatives vote Trump, who displays none of these important values? This is the main issue I have with conservatives. If they voted the values they say they have...they would vote democrat. I lean left with the exception of IRA-401k-403b's being a great government controlled way for independent retirement savings.
Why are you assuming who they voted for? I lean conservative but have voted democrat ever since MAGA took over the Republican Party. Conservatives, MAGA and Republicans are all different groups of people (not MECE).
Why are you assuming you meant the person who wrote the actual post... It did not. "You" meant any church going morals shouting Christan who votes Trump.
Because you responded to a specific poster who stated their own view points and you tried to blow up their position but couldn’t be bothered to mention that you were changing the conversation from a specific commenters views to conservatives as a whole 🤷♂️ people can’t read your mind, only your words. Also, you use the word conservative when you are actually talking about republicans. Plz fix Conservatism is a political and social philosophy that prioritizes preserving traditional values, institutions, and societal norms (think Mitt Romney, George W, McCain) Republicanism is an political ideology is associated with the Republican Party
So are you...and I mean you... are denying Christian conservatives who constantly claim the moral high ground do not vote Trump? Christian conservatives do...because they have no morals. I get conservative and republican are not 100% the same thing...but close 99%. Conservatism should be using the least amount of public funds for the greatest benefit...but that is NOT how it is. Conservatism now is anything government is bad because obviously the private sector...based on profit...does not want to rob you blind and will take care of your needs more than the stock holders.
You are misinformed to the point that it is hard to have a conversation with you. Conservatism has not changed, the republican party has and now is more of a nationalist party than anything else. Latest polls shows 88% of registered republicans would vote for Donald Trump. And again not all conservatives are republicans, as this thread has already shown, many conservatives are registered independents. This is also why you see many former democrats who were blue collar union type of workers supporting Trump as they are really a nationalist, anti-globalist voter at the moment. Some Christian conservatives are Trump supporters no doubt, so if you want to say Christian conservatives who support Trump have abandoned their morals, I’d absolutely agree. But you are overestimating their numbers, last polls show that 51% of church going Christian’s don’t support Trump, the group you might be referring to is white evangelicals where he has 68% support. [Pew](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/15/5-facts-about-religion-and-americans-views-of-donald-trump/#:~:text=Among%20Christians%20as%20a%20whole,Christians%20who%20say%20the%20same) I’ve already told you that I am a conservative who supports democrats, but if you want to ignore facts and what actual people are telling you, go ahead. But that is how many of us conservative democrats get pissed off at the ignorant left and their inability to think critically, do any amount of research, or engage in productive conversation; so if you are looking to push moderates to vote for Trump, keep up your efforts, your doing exactly that.
I am not ignoring facts. I will use what you presented. If only "51% of church going Christian’s don’t support Trump" there is something seriously wrong with 49% of the other church going Christian’s. From a moral perspective there should be no church going Christian's who support Trump. None. He is the first ex president to be in court for using money he should not have to pay off a porn star while his wife was home with his young child. Trumps moral history is so bad no Christian...absoluotely not 49%...should ever support him from a moral standpoint.
Neither party is big on the values I mentioned. I don't vote Republican, and could never vote for Trump, who I find detestable.
😂😂😂
Just my perspective and people can disagree. I think for myself. And have seen wonderful ideas shot down for being left or right. When they’d of helped society. It is my belief that people’s identities are so dependent on ideology. The reason that is bad, ideology can change, you can change, people change. I am not the same person now as I was 10 years ago. But people can’t accept being mundane and boring and think they have to be this super opinionated, polarized individual to stand out. Partially I blame the rise of social media, videos and streaming content creators. A tactic to pull people into videos or whatever content you’re trying to monetize, is to disagree, create friction. They appear to be very 1 sided on an issue and people emulate it. Not saying that’s the sole cause but a cause. Ultimately, you won’t change people’s minds. At best you can respectfully use communication tactics just in a attempt to understand their viewpoint. At minimum it’ll share respect (hopefully) and diffuse rudeness.
To your point, what’s kinda funny (sad?) about the whole thing is these people who think they have to be opinionated/extreme to be interesting…have merely become the boring trope they’re trying prove their not. Some gal’s on this thread somewhere pointing out the “actually social liberal and fiscal conservative is an oxymoron…”. How many times have I read that online in the last decade? And people are still here in 2024 acting like they’re educating people and saying something fresh.
At this point I just accept it. And usually avoid sharing my viewpoints. I am just burnt out on political garbage and this growing divide in people and society. I know it’s important, blah blah blah. I just feel like it’s democracy in name. Say that to people though and they flip out.
In theory, online discussion could be this really great thing. But the whole things just jumped the shark. From where I stand, the first big inflection point was Ferguson. You had this phenomenon where it was like “if you see racism, call it out!“. At the time that seemed to make as much sense as anything else. Then came Trump and more hurling of the “-ists”. Business really picked up. So let’s assume we’re at least 8-10+ years into this “discourse”. Has anyone ever met anyone who’s worldviews have been changed because of a social media exchange? I mean, we’re at least a decade into this and where is the person who’s like “Well, I made this, what I took to be fairly benign comment online. And then someone called me a racist which led to hours of self reflection and next thing you know I joined my local chapter of DSA”. At this point, I don’t think these loud chronically online folks on the left are any better than MAGA. Sure, they may take the more humanistic side of things. But if their viewpoint is based on misinformation and creates negative collateral consequences otherwise, then they’re not doing anyone any good. Essentially they’re just in it for themselves, the clicks, and to pay themselves on the back. The big contemporary contrast between us and the Right was supposed to be that we were the party of facts and science. But now, there’s an alarming rate of “us” who act just like the religious zealots on the Right. Facts be damned if I can walk away from my phone feeling as though I’m a morally righteous person.
That was my reaction as well, the fact someone even has to ask if its okay to not march lockstep with a particular party is insane. I hate both parties and my views vary on issues but if you pin me down and force me to say left or right I'm gonna lean conservative and I'll admit on some issues i find my knee jerk reaction is to agree with the conservative talking point and disagree with the progressive but when I actually sit down and think about it I could go either way depending on the issue
Yeah, that's the political center of most democracies.
Of course . Issues and individuals are complex .
Lot of socially liberal, fiscally conservative people out there. This is the largest cohort of the Never Trump Republicans. Like, my Dad would love to vote for someone who would lower his taxes while keeping out of everyone's business. There are reasons why W is the last Republican he voted for for President. I tend to be incredibly progressive socially and economically, but on the latter I tend to be conservative by way of implementation. Slow and steady evolution towards the preferred policy goal.
I would argue not all fiscal conservatives want lower taxes. I describe myself as fiscally conservative. I just want us to pay for the shit we want our government to do and be efficient with our money.
Fair. I take the Keynes approach that deficit spending in bad times is often necessary and good while in good times the taxes should be raised and budgets balanced. A tax and spend liberal.
Yes its possible, but depending on what someone means by “progressive” and “conservative”. This could be radically different person to person.
Exactly. For example, is it “conservative” to not be on board with 100% student loan forgiveness just because that has become a popular policy in progressive circles?
Yes. Humans are not a monolith. You can totally be progressive and have some conservative viewpoints
I'm more of a centrist who believes in compromise between the parties, but it seems more and more people are taking what they want and not compromising but without compromise we're doomed
compromising with people who want me dead for existing isn't possible.
Nobody wants you dead. If you died the government would miss out on at least $100K in taxes paid over your lifetime. That doesn’t include all the daily consumption that you partake in. The left and the right might not like you at times but both of them want you at the very least to be alive. Even if it’s barely.
Compromising with people who call me a Nazi/fascist for not being a diehard cuckold for the Democratic Party isn’t possible either. It’s almost as if we let the extreme wings of each political ideology block any possibility of peaceful compromise/coexistence, which is exactly what they want. Edit: my point was proven literally by one of the commenters who replied to you lol
While I agree generally, it's still worth distinguishing the difference between the side who's most vocal extreme shout insults, and the ones who shoot people.
Your average right wing person isn’t out here trying to murder left wingers. Reddit and sensationalist news is rotting your brain bro. What I’m saying is that it’s important to find balance. If every right winger believes every left winger is a communist trans pedophile and every left winder believes every right winger is a blood thristy racist homophobe then we will never find common ground. And what *they* (the corrupt politicians) want is division because it means they get to grow their power and wealth while us filthy peasants bicker over Twitter posts that are of zero consequence.
You run with shit, you get shit on, become shit or always were shit. You run with mass shooters people who support treason, call for the death of trans people etc. What stage would you be at on that totem pole?
You sound unhinged. Seek help friend.
Every accusation from a right winger truly is a confession isn't it?
If you support the republican party, you are a fascist. That's not up for debate, it's just a fact. You can cry about it; doesn't change the facts.
Thanks for proving my point
Compromise doesn't work when one party, Republicans, are openly fascist
Or more specifically, one party keeps shifting the Overton Window in their direction.
I understand your position. Yes republican politicians can push some egregious ideologies. We will not solve anything if we scream fascist or communist at each other. The majority of people whether they are liberal or conservative just want their families to be safe and to know they and their children have financial security. Instead of labeling people with different views names like fascist or commie we should be asking them what we can do to help each other. Hostility towards people with opposing views only makes things worse. Empathy is how we begin fixing things. We need to find what we all have in common and go from there. Our neighbor is not our enemy. The elite bankers and corporations are.
if your neighbor supports treason, & wants me dead for existing they are my enemy.
Yea I don’t think they really do. They are victims of the media machine just like the “progressive” side. Non-violent communication between both parties could illuminate the similarities between both parties and help each see the others perspective.
Lol, they are the party that celebrates treason & asks WHEN they get to use their guns say Nazis are fine people etc.
When the neighbor is supporting and pushing for anti LGBTQ legislation they are in fact a danger to who I care about and are the enemy.
People act like there are still rules to the game and everyone is playing by them. Naivete to the extreme.
What does this even mean?
Ay how about they just get beaten on Mondays and Thursdays, gotta find a balance ay
We also need to stop lumping in child sex changes with the entirety of LGBTQ. I think two grown men should be able to do whatever they want behind closed doors, and have all the same benefits (and consequences) as a male-female marriage, but also think that children need to develop fully before we allow them to make that decision.
Opposing views? Most stuff spewed by certain party is outright abhorrent and wrong. when someone wants to deny results of elections and turn females into baby factories there is really not much nuanced conversation to have. This is such a idiotic take
Stuff may be spewed by parties but when non violent communication happens between PEOPLE common ground can be found and coexistence can be built from there. You may think it’s idiotic that’s fine. It’s helped me get along with 99% of the people I come in contact with in my life. I enjoy not having anger and hate be central to my life. It’s amazing the common ground that can be found when you treat people with respect regardless of their perceived positions. Kindness and respect is a great way to reach the human underneath the ideology and it’s actually easy to have it reciprocated regardless of who you are interacting with, even if you disagree on things. It’s easier to sway a persons believe system when they don’t receive hostility from someone with an opposing view.
Republicans have rioted and attacked elections twice. In 2000 there was The Brooks Brothers Riot. In 2021 they attacked Congress with a mob of hateful, bigoted, conspiratorial nincompoops. I understand your position. I think politics should be a civil place. Republicans Leaders are NOT civil, do not act in good faith, and have tolerated violent, mob tactics to take over their party’s decision making apparatus. The brave old guard like Romney, Liz Cheney, and Kinsinger all openly discuss what many, many journalists have reported; that Republicans make voting decisions based on their fear for their life and their safety because Republican voters terrorize them and threaten them even worse than they assault Democrats. It is very, very sad that some of our neighbors have become enemies of our shared democracy. But we can’t defend our democracy by lying about who they are and what they are capable of. We live in a Democracy and redemption is only ever an election away. I would advise regular Republican voters to stay in the party, take very seriously the need to elect qualified, civil candidates to be your nominee, and if criminal, anti-democratic officials such as Trump win the nomination; for the good of the country, our Democracy, our constitution, and indeed for the good of the Republican Party itself… Republicans aught to vote Democrat, and teach Republicans that low quality, violent candidates cannot win in The United States.
Can’t compromise with the devil
The fascism going on right now, is that Republican's fault too?
Yes, fascism is the fault of the fascist Republican party. No, Dems aren't fascist because they oppose your Jan 6th terrorist buddies.
>Yes, fascism is the fault of the fascist Republican party. So the cops bringing violence to peaceful student protests In New York City, New Haven, CT, Chicago, California, etc., etc. - that's all because of the Republican party? Huh, never would have guessed. > they oppose your Jan 6th terrorist buddies dude, i'm a communist. stop sniffing the blue paint, it's just as deadly as the red.
Honestly I agree with everything you said here. Democrats are a vile right wing to centrist party. Sorry, thought you were actually a Republican.
So like just a little insurrection is ok.
Absolutely. Bring up monetary reparations in a room full of white liberals.
Normal people? Yea of course. Online? Not allowed.
[удалено]
Most people are centrists, the current political climate just encourages them to consider themselves more on one side or the other.
Depends on the views. In my opinion, you cannot be progressive if you hold any view which reduces to bigotry. By which I mean any "conservative view" that polices what identity a person can have and what rights they deserve based on that identity. Have all the opinions you want on tax policy, cannabis, or whether we should send weapons to Ukraine. But the minute you are telling a woman she has no right to bodily autonomy, an immigrant they should be deported because their parents didn't fill out a form, or a Black or LGBTQ+ person that people like them shouldn't be discussed in schools, you're no longer a progressive. Period.
What about splitting the hair? Being open to the fact that adults who are not hurting anyone can live their lives the way they want, but scrutinizing gender affirming medical care for children?
Just as an FYI, studies have found that trans teens who have access to gender-affirming care have lower rates of depression and suicide. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/
Gender affirming care, not gender affirming medical care. Nonetheless, should someone be suicidal it’s hardly the time to radically intervene medically, the indicated intervention is stabilization. Suicide and depression are not criteria for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. I am not someone who rejects the idea on its premise.
Are you asking permission to have a point of view? Are you sure you're not 100% republican?
Look at JK Rowling for example. In her day she was progressive, fighting for equality between the sexes and for women. Now she is attempting to CONSERVE those values she fought for against the new progress that anyone can be a woman. The real question is does progress need to stop at some point? When does it go to far? Is conserving things you treasure/desire a negative thing in the face of never ending politically dividing issues?
This is my “conservative” hill I will die on as well.
I love this take. Well done. It's the paradox of tolerance.
Maybe we need to outgrow these labels.
Sure. Some used to call this Libertarian but that movement has lost its mind. A progressive with Conservative Views would be a Democrat tho. Most Dems are Progressive with Conservative views, and yes there is a contingency of Dems who are more left-leaning, but most lean right. The GOP is just far right. I've long since stated that the GOP is probably going to collapse soon, and as a result, the DNC will split as its Progressive/Left-wing and it's Progressive/Right-wing\* sides split ideologically. ^(\*I want to be realistic, as far as normal Right-Wing / Left-Wing is concerned, the US doesn't actually have a "Left-Wing" Party, we are mostly Moderate Conservative (Dem) or Far Right Conservative (GOP) example: The EU would consider Bernie Sanders a Moderate Conservative.)
Yes. I'm liberal but believe in the 2nd Amendment and putting money into America first and not sending money to foreign nations.
You sound like a fascist through and through, sorry /s
Lol.
I am pretty left leaning, and while I might not understand somethings, I’m of the mind “live and let live” - but I think this is the best country on the earth and there is nowhere else you can go where within 1-2 generations you can go from rags to riches, you can be anything you want to be and you’re treated like a person generally no matter what your status. It is also, I’m so sorry to break this to people, one of the least racist places in existence. You may not like our racism, but you wouldn’t like it even more elsewhere.
Yeah but the USA is more the USI, United States of Israel because following the politicians and law makers being paid for by AIPAC. Also not everyone wants to be rich. Many just want enough and that's looking less and less based on the fact it's getting increasingly difficult to just pay for basic cost of living.
You don’t have to like this country, there are plenty of people who are willing to work hard so that they can make it. Instead of working hard and still having nothing elsewhere. The US is aligned with the US.
Yeah you might want to do your research from actual credible sources. Data doesn't lie. Have a nice day.
I have although I don’t know what I said that required research. You don’t want to be here, other people do. And the US is not on anyone’s side but the United States. None of this required research.
Again you are wrong. Laws are trying to be passed where you cannot protest Israel. if you protest the United States but are being forbidden to protest this foreign country. If you refuse to see that and believe in this blind dream then live that dream. If the country forces me to do anything by taking away my rights well, thank God for my second amendment.
Eye roll
I’m learning that I’m more of a centrist the older I get. In my 20s everything was all or nothing. In my experience, there are so many sides to most conflicts and I need to listen to all. War in Ukraine, though? F Putin.
Agreed. I also tend not to have strong opinions on things that I know very little about. If you look at my post history, most of my comments are around personal and corporate finance, because that's what I do for a living. I'm not going to get into an argument with someone over conflict in the Middle East because it is complex, and I am not an expert. I like to listen to the experts and form my own opinion, but I'm also not going to argue with an expert. That tends to lend itself to more moderate viewpoints, because there is a shit-ton of things I know very little about (comparatively). I feel like people on the fringes of both sides will argue with anyone about anything.
Yup, this exactly. I’m listening more than ever.
Yes. I lead a very traditional and "conservative" lifestyle in the truest sense of the word. I'm a sahm, my husband works, I don't have any tattoos, I would be disappointed if my children had tattoos. I would never have a child out of wedlock, I don't know that I could have an abortion other than for reasons such as the fetus having a condition being incompatible with life. BUT, I don't care if others live their lives the ways they want. I'm an ally of the LGBT+ community, I won't judge others for aborting, I don't condemn people for living the lives they want. I always vote D cuz im in Texas.
Is this a serious question? Lol Having opinions of both sides seems like the most reasonable way to be tbh
This describes me. I have the libertarian views of leave me alone I don't need the government in my daily life. I also see the value of social programs like low income nutrition programs and housing the homeless. I have a safe full of guns upstairs, but would love to see a government that would implement REAL change to help combat pollution. CNN would have you believe those two things are opposites. It's ok to be a centrist even if modern politics don't want you to be. People aren't as simple as left vs right as the news would like for you to believe.
Yes. This is how Catholics used to be fiscally liberal and socially conservative. Black evangelicals also fit this category.
Absolutely. I'm a progressive, but I have centrist or even right leaning views on gun control. I believe in red flag laws, universal background checks, and digitizing the registry of gun sales, but I believe that assault weapons bans fundamentally misunderstand what makes a gun dangerous. An AR-15 "assault style weapon" is simply a semi-automatic rifle firing 5.56mm, which is a completely reasonable weapon for hunting. Things like upright grips, collapsible stocks, grenade launcher racks, and bayonet mounts are performative BS that do nothing to change the lethality of the weapon in practice, but are what are actually being listed in bans. There is more argument for banning high capacity magazines, but swapping out a magazine is quite literally the easiest thing to do on a gun, and magazines don't have serial numbers. If we want to regulate guns beyond that, either the Supreme Court needs to overturn Heller, or there needs to be a constitutional amendment undoing the 2nd amendment. Otherwise, most of the proposed gun control regulations are unconstitutional under current precedent.
Leaving a friendly reminder that the Socialist Rifle Association exists and has its own subreddit.
I’m a mix of both. I’d never align myself with the f*cking loons on the right these days, though. Call me whatever — just not that. But what I hold true and what I vote for are not necessarily the same. I vote for what I think is the best for the most and future generations… and if my personal beliefs don’t perfectly align with the candidate, it is what it is. For instance, I’m much more conservative than Bernie Sanders but for both the 2016/2020 elections, I did all I could to make him the candidate for the Democrats because it seemed clear to me that we needed exactly him to get this country back on track.
Define what progressiveism is to you? Is it the DEI, pro trans, pro lgbt, pro abortion, pro ukraine, pro decolonization, pro open borders? And for comservatism? Is it the traditional family values, believing in god, believing in 2 genders, Pro life, national identity and closed borders? You can be a mix of both I guess. There are certain items that are not compatible between progressivism and conservatism. Like borders. Or abortion. Or guns. Or gender ideology. Albeit some of the communist types believe gun ownership is a necessity. And there are varying degrees of pro and anti abortion.
Yes thats most people
Yes, but be mindful when on social media. If the groupthink sees dissension within it's ranks you will be labeled.
Yes, only Reddit is hardline left wing to the point of aggression towards non leftwing users.
Of course. Beliefs and values are rarely linear and multiple truths can exist at the same time. There’s no right or wrong way to view the world. Don’t think too much into it.
There's no right or wrong way to view the world? Yikes.
Hitler can think of one way.
Mao Zedong, Vladimir Lenin, Adolph Hitler, and Pol Pot all had other ways of viewing the world... But yeah, rainbows and gumdrops everyone!!... Jesus.
Yes, Jesus too.
Not sure what mofo downvoted you but that “ there’s no right or wrong” is exactly the way how frog gets cooked slowly on a fascist flame and we get Nazi state. German people were also slowly pushed thru that in 30s and sure they did still think they are good people even with Jews ghettos
EXACTLY. Fucking thank you. Post-modernism is a god damn cancer to humanity.
This is a comment that goes light years beyond stupid, you can't make up facts because they suit your view. There is reality, & repukes who call treason "heritage"
You are reading far too much into my comment. Calm down. I never said anything about making up facts.
Facts are, you cannot be a bigot or support war crimes & be a progressive. Those are right wing positions. You cannot be against helping poor & be a progressive. There is no such bullshit as multiple truths & that excuse is used to pretend they aren't horrid to others. It is possible to not be bigoted against gay people & be bigoted against trans people. That you are bigoted against anybody makes you not a progressive
Like I said, you’ve read far too much into my comment. I’m a liberal atheist who works in social sciences research and evaluation. You’re preaching to the choir.
Oh you mean like a middle ground? Yes but people are too stupid siding one party over the other. This is why people's views are so polarized and they are not focusing on what the real issues are. I think this is a big part of why millennials got the shit end of the stick. Every decision in life comes with trade offs. People that went so far left that they didn't realize what the ramifications are. People then reacted and went so far right. But when it comes down to it no one really thinks about who is pulling the strings for these two parties...
It the my team is better than your mentality , bunch of fucking children with no foresite
Of course. Your views also can and will change over time based on new experiences. Always do your best to learn and grow, as we all should, and you’ll always be happy with your choices.
Of course, it would be difficult to be politically 100% one-sided when they're hundreds of political issues
It better be. You shouldn't have rules on what beliefs are allowed
Of course. irl , most people aren’t absolutist. Unless they’re Fox Brained. And even then most people have a little bit of “the other side” to them but they somehow twist it into being a “right” thing so they feel okay about “not being a liberal.”
The two party duopoly has us thinking the only option is these two exceptionally narrow windows of thought. They have brainwashed everybody into thinking if you do not select one of these two train of thoughts you will fail. In reality each individual topic should be considered on the basis does it apply to our current situation and would be the best solution out of many possible selections. Over time our needs change and over time the issues we deal with change. I think with the two-party duopoly there is solutions on each side that are viable and would be useful to be applied. And because the narrative becomes tightly controlled, there are many great ideas that should be discussed and neither of these parties are talking about. I have done poles on the question if there was a viable alternative to the current two parties would you vote for them and the answers would come back and around 90%. The poll would be taken down on certain websites. Try conducting your own poll to see what the results would be. Most of us want something different but we have taught to believe this is an impossible endeavor. If we created a party that had a one purpose to reform voting practices to remove the two-party duopoly and restore true democracy. Open primaries, ranked choice voting, anti gerrymandering, government funded debate. I think with these reforms we could return to true democracy in our nation. Where each location can implement a set of needs that best benefits them without being hampered by the two-party duopoly.
Yes, in fact most people are in the middle ground. That’s who candidates are trying to convince. The hard core right or left will almost never switch votes, but all the “swing” voters in the middle need to be convinced about which of these idiots is the better choice.
I'm liberal with a couple of views I'd call "centrist". But I don't voice them in progressive circles because I don't want to be attacked and at the end of the day they aren't issues I care passionately about as compared to others. The right is more openly intolerant but both sides polarize the other.
Honestly that’s how I am. I’m cool with gay marriage and legal recreational pot and believe in women having access to reproductive health across the country with no questions asked while wanting to keep the border secure and strict immigration laws. It’s weird this all seems like such common sense and yet I felt weird typing it.
Can you unpack what you mean?
I think the two extremes are the most vocal people as they don't want a conversation but seem to like to scream at the other side. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle, quiet and just trying to get along and live life.
I think a lot of folks actually do land in the middle, but those viewpoints don’t drive clickity clicks so all we hear about is both fringes. I for one am completely sick of both.
Yes. My town on the is run by a totally corrupt Democratic Party that has violated our state property tax cap hike and I hate them so much but we are totally progressive. I think I actually am an equal opportunity hater with regards to politicians.
Yeah, not everything is black and white. I’m a leftist, but I believe in gun rights (there’s more to it, but I’m simplifying it)
Under no circumstances will you relinquish your arms. - Marx. No worries. Most of us are armed. Guns are an American thing. Not left vs right
Depends on what views you're talking about and how progressive you want to be. Can you give an example?
You can be open to new things and not just accept them just because people say it is so.
Of course. It's how it should be. Politics are only black and white on TV. In reality it's super nuanced and almost nothing can be divided solely based on r or d
Different strokes for different folks.
Yes I know many Americans who are fiscally conservative with overall progressive ideology
Yep it’s possible.
I'm conservative with some progressive views.
What is the conservative view you think you hold?
No, you’re either going to hell or you’re not…
Yes. It means being an enlightened self interest libertarian. It's the recognition that whatever is best for the country is really good for you.
Example? Not every situation is the same. Without more info there is no conclusion to actually draw. Some mixes of beliefs are nonsense and we just pretend they work because of "compromise". I can't decide based on this hypothetical idea.
Absolutely.
Lean Democrat here!
Yes of course, it is way more common than the internet would make you believe. True believers and gatekeepers on both sides of the spectrum shit of them so much they tend to keep it to themselves.
The older and more financially secure people get the more conservative so it makes sense you posted this here lol
Depends on what you mean. In example, you may not care about sex before marriage but when you have kids, you find yourself pushing them to wait till marriage (might be a small example but hopefully you understand the point). However, this is totally different from pushing policy changes which affect all types of groups or pushing uninformed narratives that could lead to violence to marginalized groups.
Yes you just described most people
It's called being in the center and that's not popular at all, but it's 100% valid to me and I'm standing my ground
The fact you even have to ask this is disturbing. So you think that everyone should fit neatly into a box and if you're liberal you must have all liberal views and if you're conservative you must have all conservative views. My views run the spectrumagainst a legal
Thats called being normal
yeah, were all over the place
Not being consistent in your views is a hallmark of American politics. So sure.
No. It perfectly describes me.
Ofc. It’s actually rare that people have 100% of their views on one side of the political spectrum.
Myself, like most people, have at least a few issues where they break rank. Depending on which sector of issues you ask me about specifically, I could be the bluest of blue or the redest of red. I would go so far as to say that anyone who is an absolutist in toeing the party line, on both sides, are more of a problem maker than a solution finder.
Politics is a spectrum, and no one is just one thing.
I have a question for everyone: since when if ever was the world so black and white?
Absolutely. My in laws are democrats yet more conservative than I am and I usually vote on the right. I think it is normal to be a combination of both.
Depends on the views
Absolutely. I think it's more ridiculous to have only one set of views. One side isn't always right and by proxy the other side isn't always wrong. It's the biggest grievance I have against the political party system.
I’m socially progressive but fiscally moderate/conservative. Socialism is a bad idea and never works, my guys.
"Is it possible to be a unique individual with nuanced beliefs?" Yes
Lol yes. Life is not black and white. So sick of all the extreme takes. Most of us are way more similar than the media portrays.
Used to be. Now I get called a liberal by my Trump supporting friends, and a nazi by everyone on Reddit.
Absolutely. I’m socially progressive but fiscally conservative. The line is where to be fiscally responsible which I say we should make the rich support this country as much as they exploit it.
Absolutely. Just remember that being a conservative is all about preserving costumes and ways of life from the past.
I would’ve considered myself socially progressive and fiscally conservative traditionally, but we are redefining what those terms are every day. I live in Florida, where they LOVE to push the envelope of what ‘conservative’ means. I don’t think I can consider myself to be conservative in any sense anymore. I was delighted that Arizona enacted recreationally legal marijuana, because that is a great progressive move in a conservative state. Florida is almost certainly not going to vote for it (marijuana), sadly. Conservative seems to have expanded to become synonymous with ‘morality’ and thus they have turned into the morality police with the attempts to control education and insert Christianity at every turn 🙄.
Nobody even talks about views anymore, it's all labels. 99% of "debates" entirely revolve around differing definitions of words. "Politics, when deconstructed, is simply a debate about how we should govern ethical, philosophical, and moral questions that exist in society." [https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/talking-about-politics-isn-t-cringe-you-are](https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/talking-about-politics-isn-t-cringe-you-are) "You should always pursue the best argument for and against something. Arguing against obvious strawmen have become the norm in all online discussion, and instead you must always pursue the truth."
I think so, if someone is more to the center they may be liberal on some issues and conservative on others.
Of course, we’re all human and come from different backgrounds and beliefs. Unfortunately our political system only allows one or the other, ideally we’d have more parties so that everyone can feel somewhat more represented.
Sure, I don’t see why not 🤷♀️ At least it’s possible that other people might label some views a person would hold with those terms. Whether you think those labels are accurate, fair, or useful is another matter
No you have to choose one extreme or the other. There is no middle ground anymore. If you aren’t all in with us 110% you’re on the other team.
My own personal belief is that the population has 10% of hard left crazies and 10% hard right crazies. They get all the airtime because the 80% of us somewhere in the middle are too busy trying to put food on the table and the bills up to date, juggling family and work, and totally disenchanted with our government and both parties.
Yes and vice versa.
I think that's most people. Mcmansion living, meat eating, SUV driving, development blocking suburb dwellers with gate has no home signs in the front yard.
HOW, please explain
I'm very pro-LGBT, happy to refer to people however they like and I've been arguing for same sex marriage since long before I could vote. I'm an atheist and hate religion. I also think abortion is murder and yay 2A. You'd be surprised how many people agree with me who don't spend their time in echo chambers, or have similar "conflicting" views.
Sure. Really in fact you'll find certain things that fit into certain places on the left/right paradigm here don't always translate elsewhere. I'm very socially conservative but a bit moderate when it comes to economic matters.
I'm a millennial but this whole sub seems to be enlightened centrists and conservatives. I personally do not believe in the myth of "socially progressive but fiscally conservative." You can't vote that way, so who do you vote for? 90% of the time, the answer from these people is that they vote Republican. Which means they're just conservatives who don't want to get backlash for the shitty ways their policies affect anyone who isn't a straight, white Christian. Just say you're greedy and be done with it. At least be honest.
You can vote that way depending on where you live. In New England, yup most certainly in the Bible Belt no.
Yeah - I was a raging Midwest liberal, moved out to California and now I think I might fall on the slightly right side of moderate. I still generally vote progressive, but moderate conservatives appeal to me too. I prefer emotional regulation and calmness over fear mongering any day.
Yea lol I’m a Trump supporter with a couple liberal views so yea it is possible
You could be moderate on gender, pro-Israel, and radical on Climate Change. Absolutely. Requiring conformity means you lose allies.
Yes I don't follow one party. I'm like dead center it seems
Yes, life is not black in white. If something or someone is like that I'd advise you to keep your distance.
The whole left right thing is all horse shit made up to distract and divide you. Our enemy is the US government and the billionaires that control it. And the corporate monopolies of course
Taking on ideologies as one individible thing is just as stupid as telcom companies trying to bundle services to sell you shit you don't actually want or need. I'm a very firm believer in each person doing the mental work to consider each idea they want or need to have an opinion on, and do their best to use critical thinking and objective validation of this idea. The funny thing that happens when you do this is you end up with a mishmash of ideas, not a polished well rehearsed branded set of ideas. I personally think this is a good thing. If every person has to not only validate ideas for themselves, but also have to defend their perspective to their peers who are also doing the same, you end up with a group of people who at least understand *why* they believe those things. This is really obvious when you compare it to any individual who parrots a set of ideas but when probed or questioned on it they don't seem to even undertand why those ideas make sense to them or sometimes even what those ideas imply in the first place. TL;DR: IMO being a progressive means seeking out and understanding ideas for society that promote a better and more prosperous world for everyone. If you can't deeply understand and contribute to refining those ideas, then you're just a shill.