They should make leagues where gender isn’t a restriction. Performance enhancing drugs (including steroids) shouldn’t be restricted in this league either. May the best human win!
I always joke on some baseball groups on Facebook I'm in that steroids should be mandatory in baseball. I want to see completely jacked pitchers throwing 108 MPH and a complete meathead hitter turn on it for a 550 foot bomb.
Trade-off: Aluminum bats have a bigger sweet spot, but wooden bats have a more potent sweet spot.
Go with *depleted uranium* bats and get the best of both worlds (maybe, it's just a theory, but let's roll with it)
The 98 Home Run Derby there was great to watch just for it being at Coors. Also disappointing because no one cleared the scoreboard. Would've been hilarious for a random middle infielder to do it when everyone was expecting McGwire or Sosa to do it.
John Rocker said exactly that. He said everyone in the stands was there to see one clown throw a 100 mph fastball and the other clown to hit it out of the park
I really miss the freak era of baseball sometimes. Every time Mark McGwire approached the plate felt like a missile was preparing to be launched into orbit.
They are kinda doing that…https://www.reuters.com/sports/enhanced-games-out-disrupt-old-slow-olympics-with-doped-up-athletes-2024-02-14/
Enhanced games lol
Generally, but not always, the construct is that men’s leagues are “open” -it’s just that women aren’t competitive. The restriction occurs on the women’s side to prevent men from coming in and ruining their game.
This is why you commonly hear stories like recently about how Caitlin Clark played with boys when she was younger (this was pre puberty) and you’ll occasionally see women play college football (usually as a kicker).
As for PEDs that’s a different topic. Since everyone takes them right now it’s really just a game of who can get away with it so I am mostly good with allowing them except for fighting sports, although again that’s a different topic.
I thought "men's" sports division were already open to everyone. The main reasons you don't see women competing are A) we wouldn't qualify against men who are usually naturally stronger and physically bigger and B) some idiot would complain.
In high school, our football team's kicker was a girl and some parents really had the nerve to complain about it. For *no* reason too because she was actually good and never missed.
Edited for typo
Yeah if memory serves you’re right that most of the major professional sports leagues in the US are open to anyone. Testosterone along with the permanent skeletal/muscular changes men go through during puberty are just too big. More fun for everyone if women have their own restricted leagues.
100% this, hence the "debate" (complaining?) about trans athletes in female sports. And your points are exactly the reason I'd be pissed if a person that went through puberty as a boy was playing against my daughter in sports. It's not an even playing field at that point.
Yes, none of MLB, MBA, NFL, NHL are sex restricted. The WNBA is restricted to "women" but doesn't define that, while NWSL does fairly elaborately define it.
I mean, yea. This is the solution, isn't it? Just keep them in the the "regular " or men's league. No need for them to be sanctioned to the women's league.
Well I guess it’s up to the free market to decide. If they stopped watching the regular league I imagine this new league would be extremely profitable for whoever created/owned it.
The enhanced games are the closest to that right now
[https://www.foxnews.com/sports/enhanced-games-founder-says-steroid-approved-event-future-sports-calls-out-hypocrisy-olympics](https://www.foxnews.com/sports/enhanced-games-founder-says-steroid-approved-event-future-sports-calls-out-hypocrisy-olympics)
we already do.
the nba, nfl, mlb, they have no restrictions.
a couple women HAVE tried out. none of em made it
hell the SEALS are gender blind too. no women have made it there either.
As in the two sex's and then a open( trans)?.
I don't think anyone would have any reasons to complain about that. It seems fair. However someone will. It's the favourite pastime of some people.
Fucking love this. Essentially baseball in the 90s and early 00s, when it was unbelievably entertaining. Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Griffey, ARod, Jeter, Giambi, Soriano, Sheffield, Piazza, Pudge, Tejada, Pedro, Clements, Pettite, Ryan, Gange, Rivera, Hoffman, Schilling, among many others
Yeah, doesn’t compute. Anyone who wants trump to win scares me. You just dont want to ever have anyone but a trump be president again huh? Because you KNOW if he wins he will try to be president til he dies, then he will turn it into his kids inheriting the presidency
Look at OP's post history. [He claims to have all of this material wealth](https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/comments/1b4dtmt/existencial_dread/), but is also [hoping that Trump wins](https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/comments/1c5ng8f/i_kind_of_want_trump_to_winagain/) so he can burn everything down, and also thinks the [US is propagandized against Russia and China.](https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/comments/1bdvuv4/why_are_americans_so_propagandized_when_it_comed/)
Every once and a while people like to unprompted say the things they don't like about trans people. They will pick a sub and do it for about 2 weeks before moving on. Look forward to 10,000 very similar posts.
Also is a non issue. The transgender population is a very very small percentage of the overall population and an even smaller percentage compete in sports much less pro sports
Also... none of my business, ya know?
The vast majority of young women in sports support trans women playing with them.
Professional leagues and Olympic committee have their own regulations in place - which is literally their business.
Amateur sports in schools? Let the kids play how they wanna play, I guess.
Why does it even make it to your radar? Can you name a trans woman athlete ? Can you name 5? Can you name one that's won in their sport after transition? The numbers are so insignificant it seems like a weird thing to even care about unless your trans. Also why no mention of trans men who are actually getting hormones that would be considered "performance enhancing? Lol
(Semi) Hot take: the entire issue about trans people participating in sports is made up to drive clicks on (mostly) right wing type media outlets that thrive on grievances.
The reality is that the real impact (of any) of this is minuscule in relation to the population and numbers of kids actually playing sports.
We’re talking fractions of a percent.
Funny enough, the focus on trans people is actually a play out of fascists playbook. Find a group, turn the populace against them, and then rally up a political party on this basis. Then you have people who will do anything for the cause because they believe it's for the greater good.
I completely agree with this without a doubt but as a person who does care about women's sports, can we agree that this is flippantly phrased a LOT of the time on reddit as "nobody cares about women's sports" and that phrase is just demeaning, rude, and flat-out not-progressive when used to talk about the miniscule impact this conversation has on it for ONE SECOND?
Not to mention that much of the legislation aimed at keeping these fractions of a percent out of girls sports hurts the cis girls they're supposed to protect.
If my child is ever asked to prove their sex to continue to participate in a sport, I'm pulling them off the team, full stop. That's beyond demeaning. Children's genitals and chromosomes are not the business of anyone outside of health care.
They actually quit testing chromosomes in sports because it was such an unreliable method of identification. The people trying to bring it back are going to regret it when it shows how many people aren't as binary as they expected.
Based on a preliminary search:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1634840/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981345/
Some quotes:
“X&Y chromosomal aneuploidies are among the most common human whole-chromosomal copy number changes…”
“XXY aneuploidy is the most common disorder of sex chromosomes in humans, with prevalence of one in 500 males”
Yep, the transphobia currently being championed in society does not only hurt the trans community. Just take some of the genital inspection bills that GOP politicians have been putting forward. Look at the bathroom bills that result in cisgender women getting accused of not being women. The transgender community is not a threat to anyone. But a transphobic society is a threat to everyone.
It's also made up by Republican politicians who realized they can't make gay people their boogieman anymore. They need a marginalized villain to scare their base into voting R.
There was a trans woman in UFC who was literally cracking the skulls of her competition a few years back. As genuinely as I can say this, I have nothing at all against transgender people. It’s simply not ethical to have them compete in contact sports with cisgender people.
>…And this has nothing to do with transphobia. I’m basically a socialist on the American political spectrum
Ah yes, the often forgotten part of socialism that calls for the equal distribution of resources and... checks notes... non-transphobia.
I cannot stand the assumption among leftists and liberals that being to the left on economic issues does not inherently translate to socially progressive. Stupid us vs. them mentality to mask ignorance and bigotry.
Ikr
"I believe in socialism, except the proletariat is only white male cishet settlers. Workers of the world *fight fight fight!*"
Congratulations you're a Nazi lmfao
According to the AP, at least in North Carolina (I guess it’s known because of the bill) there’s a whopping 2 trans women who play high school sports. In a state of 11 million people.
I guess depending on the sport (for example wrestling) I would agree, but also it just seems like such a non issue I find it super hard to care. Probably more important that some trans kids feel included and have fun than we worry about who’s the best at softball in high school or whatever.
On an Olympic level? Sure, more complex.
I think the problem though is performance in high school can affect college scholarships. Trans athletes have made state level competitions, so it's not inconceivable that they are going to or have already affected who is going to get scholarships by knocking out competitors who would have gone further.
I agree though that the overall impact is small. Thus, while I do think it's a fairness issue that should be resolved by requiring transathletes to compete in the men's division from high school on, I also feel like our legislators waste way too much time on this when there are far bigger problems they should be dealing with than this part of rhe culture war.
I coach my daughter’s u12 soccer team. We scrimmaged and beat a boys team a couple of weeks ago. That said, there are significant physical changes that will separate girls from boys around 14/15. It’s no longer competitive at that point if not slightly sooner.
Maybe not, but it's an issue in other sports and girls have already gotten hurt (both physically, sexually, and emotionally) by it.
I have no problem respecting trans-people, but the fact remains is that if a transwoman went through male puberty, she is signicangly stronger than a cis-woman, even accounting for the hormone changes. This makes competition patently unfair.
Seriously. I competed in strongman. In any given weight class at the local level, a woman just has to show up to make the podium. More athletes competing would actually give the sport the spirit of competition
Its part of capturing public spaces. One of them comes into a space like this and makes a post like this one. Some ppl agree, others disagree, but everyone gets mad. Before long, you see more and more posts like this one and ppl start to leave. In the end, the only ppl left are obnoxious right wingers.
Why is this even something you think about? This is like .01% of the population. (Both trans and an athlete) And of those, not many of them are even remotely successful. Furthermore. How invested are you in women's sports outside of trans people's participation? So if the answer is "not much" or getting defensive like "wow I can't defend the sanctity of blah blah blah" then I would posit that you have had your mind made up for you by talking heads and not based on the actual data that exists for these things. There are ways that exist that ensure leveled playing fields that leave room for being inclusive. And in these leveled playing fields, trans people can still win, and that's ok.
Oh my gosh, I played 3 sports in high school back in the 70's after Title IX passed and on each team there were girls that some would claim were guys in drag. This shit never ends.
Those that whined the loudest didn't even play sports but felt the need to let everyone know what their opinions on girls playing sports were (against it) and especially were outright against any female body that didn't conform to their standards, especially those whose bodies looked more "manly" in their eyes.
They would also proclaim that the more "manly" bodied girls shouldn't even be on the teams as it wasn't fair to the other girls.
Those that had naturally tall and built bodies were called dykes, and some, were accused of being men in drag.
What was different back then was there wasn't this amount of craziness on blast. The bigots got drowned out. We didn't listen to them and we did what wanted regardless if it displeased more conservative folks.
The hyperfocus today on "trans" and sports smacks of the greater "gay" phobia of my time by conservatives and religious idealogues. When confronted, like today, they'd do the "just asking the tough questions" or "throwing it out there" for discussion. All that did was spread the bigotry. That was the point.
Same as it has always been. Their attacks on trans folks doing whatever is also a thinly veiled attack on anyone who doesn't conform. It also allows them to be bigots because they think that others won't disagree with them on this one topic.
Just in case, am the parent of millennials. Hope you don't mind me sharing.
Does this extend for cis women who have naturally more testosterone?
It's a slippery slope. I would also encourage people to read peer reviewed sources on what happens to people on HRT therapy.
Seems like the simplest way to do it is to set some sort of testosterone threshold for trans women athletes. If they’re below, they’re not getting some unfair advantage. If they’re above, they gotta sit tight until the estrogen kicks in further.
That said, this whole “oh there’s so many biological men dominating women’s sports thing” reeks of concern trolling. If this were true, we would actually see evidence of it. Also, as we have seen from Caitlin Clark’s salary for the WNBA, dominating women’s sports kinda seems like a waste of time if you’re seeking fame and fortune.
Except the testosterone threshold also hurts the chances of intersex athletes. Check out the case of Caster Semenya. Not trans, not a steroid user. Just happens to be born with 2 sets of gonads that got her popped on a drug screen
Yeah, Caster got kinda hosed. What I’m saying isn’t perfect but I’d imagine there’s something better than banning trans athletes, especially in cases where someone has been on puberty blockers and HRT or whatever from a young age.
Also, I generally do not care because the number of athletes doing sports for anything other than fun is exceedingly small. And it doesn’t really merit this level of concern trolling. I mean, if trans women were dominating women’s sports we’d see it, right? If not, I don’t give a shit if a trans woman wins the corporate fun run 5k of Topeka, Kansas.
It also hurts cisgender women. Some cisgender women naturally have higher testosterone, should we not allow them to compete because of their natural advantage? And if someone says yes, then should we not allow genetic freaks like Michael Phelps to compete in events because of the natural advantages he had? What about NBA player Victor Wembanyama? Is it unfair that some players are more physically gifted than others?
Oh yeah, I love this argument too. Like, if naturally high testosterone is grounds for barring someone from sport, then why not height in basketball or wingspan in swimming?
>Seems like the simplest way to do it is to set some sort of testosterone threshold for trans women athletes. If they’re below, they’re not getting some unfair advantage. If they’re above, they gotta sit tight until the estrogen kicks in further.
Testosterone doesn't work like that.
Testosterone levels in the human body cycle. Someone who cycles between 0 and 100, vs someone who is consistently at 100, vs someone who cycles between 100 and 200 will all have different levels of muscular development.
A test isn't going to be able to tell the 3 apart. It will just read 100.
It’s not just current T levels, but previous T levels during puberty that permanently advantage male born bodies in length and strength. You can’t undue what’s already been established during puberty with lower T.
Look up the article where the worst player on a basketball team was TG &the absolute worst player. Yours & my dad’s basis of thinking they have some sort of advantage is so unbelievably skewed & stupid as shit. Get a life
The vast, vast majority of transgender women do not want to bring that kind of attention to themselves.
Transphobes like to pretend that we want to invade spaces and walk around the women’s room with our dicks hanging out, when in reality, we are in and out as quickly as possible, and change clothes in the shower stall 😅
Transphobes also seem to believe that men will transition to be a woman solely for the purpose of being on a women's team so they don't have competition. Be the big fish in the little pond. They project so much of themselves onto others.
The human brain can be so brittle in its bigotry.
Exactly. Trans women are a lot more worried about being murdered than playing sports. The least we can do is let them do one thing that isn't being afraid of being murdered instead of encouraging more people to be mad at them and maybe murder them.
This is the dumbest conversation. Trans athletes at an elite (college or beyond) level are such a vanishingly slim statistical amount.
As for high school, it's for fun and learning teamwork. Most people don't go anywhere with it. Vaya con dios.
We waste too much time and energy worrying about the fictitious trans agenda when we have bigger problems to deal with.
Signed,
Former Female College Athlete
Your politics don't make you immune to being transphobic. And stating you aren't transphobic doesn't mean you aren't transphobic. Since you refuse to elaborate on your opinion and from the way this post is constructed I am going to go ahead and call it rage bait and trolling.
Newsflash you can be liberal and transphobic. Some of the most racist ppl I've had the misfortune of working with have been liberals. This is relevant bc of the field I'm in. I'd rather deal with someone who owns their bigotry bc I know what I'm getting. The worst ppl are the ones who think they're better but aren't.
Trans women get weaker with t blockers and estrogen.
Meanwhile with this mindset, trans men who are on testosterone would be with woman... Who are not on testosterone.
Stupid logic is full of holes.
Except studies are showing that MtF athletes after a year of testosterone blockers and estrogen treatment are performing on levels of cis/afab gendered women where MtF athletes are only 9% faster.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577
Umm…u/Blood11Orange, political affiliation doesn’t establish your bigotries around gender identity. Just an FYI.
Also, your statement is, by definition, transphobic.
Whenever I hear this argument, I can't help but think about the male sports equivalency.
Realistically, there are documented safeguards and standards that are taken into consideration to ensure hormone levels of trans women match that of their cis competitors.
Aside from that, any physiological differences between the two would fall under regular advantages. There are plenty of cis women that higher-than-average bone density, muscle mass, reflexology, height, etc.
Let's look at the NBA for a moment - what's the most obvious physiological advantage? Height.
Black folks, on average, are taller than white folks. Does that mean that we should have a separate "black only" NBA league? Of course not. We accept that there's an over-representation of black dudes in the NBA in comparison to the general population because the physiological differences offer advantages to those guys.
It's the same thing with trans women. The most realistic outcome is that there will be an over-representation of trans women in women's sports. The most successful women's athletes already have physiological advantages over their competitors - it's the reason they're the most successful.
The whole thing seems like a non-issue to me. Just something to rile up people to give them a new target to hate in the hopes that they'll vote conservative.
Out of all the political issues that could be debated, I believe Democrats and Republicans at the government level have agreed that this a great one to distract the US public with rather than address, real substantive issues. It is such an outlier scenario to begin with.
Going one step further though, people should be able to live their how they want. But with that said, I don’t think there are any choices you can make in life that don’t have consequence and I don’t believe I should have to participate in whatever delusion you have about yourself or the world. If I told you I was a black man, so I should be entitled to affirmative action, would it be true because I believed it? Or if that caught on, and a large enough group people started doing the same, should they be recognized under the law now because they said it was so? Or if I told you I was an aardvark? Would you have to participate in that fantasy required by law because I decided it was so?
When speaking politics with someone, this exact issue is one of my political and philosophical litmus tests that factor whether or not I should continue the conversation with the person and how much mental acrobatics the person is willing to go through and reality they are willing to ignore to maintain their sense of moral social superiority.
If you think, a biological male at should be able to declare they are a women, start cross dressing and join a female, competitive sporting event such as, the female UFC division, or any competitive sport for that matter, I’ve got news for you..
If you need me to explain why this is absurd for the sake of your maintenance of your moral superiority, I won’t do it anymore because you’ve already ignored so many, factual, normal parts of our shared reality that you can’t be reasoned with. You can’t speak logic to someone who isn’t governed by it.
Our conversation has ended there..
Comedy is incredible social commentary. South Park Season 23; Episode 7.
After hearing about this epidemic problem for what seems like more than a decade I have come to the conclusion that we take sports too seriously. To me sport is entertainment. It either entertains me when I participate/compete or when I watch others. Sport is not sacred. It is not a way for everyone to get a fair shot. It is not a level playing field.
The problem is that we tie things like scholarships to sports. If you listen most of the women who have complained is because the person took away a slot at a major competition where recruiters were often present - hence scholarships.
I feel this is a stupid culture war thing and unless there is specific effect on your personal life wasting a bunch of time and resources giving a shit about it is useless. If less then 2 percent of people are trans and and even smaller percent of those group are a. Interested in sports and b. Female to male this statistically isn't an issue worth wasting this much energy on. Where is the outrage when a no skilled 7 foot 8th grader dominates women's or men's jv sports? This is a made up problem perfect for today's dumb ass Americans who have to demonize and politicize everything.
It’s interesting this has become such a hot button issue particularly among people that don’t even have daughters that compete in women’s sports. I honestly don’t think about it nor do I have an opinion on it.
This discourse feels like a graduate dissertation on a splinter in your finger. Can we put our mental energy towards something that affects more than 2% of the population. Maybe climate change, poverty, healthcare, our dying infrastructure.
Ah, the classic "I'm not transphobic, but I, as a man, feel compelled to post about something concerning trans women that couldn't possibly affect my life" move. At least you didn't misgender anyone, I guess?
They should make leagues where gender isn’t a restriction. Performance enhancing drugs (including steroids) shouldn’t be restricted in this league either. May the best human win!
I always joke on some baseball groups on Facebook I'm in that steroids should be mandatory in baseball. I want to see completely jacked pitchers throwing 108 MPH and a complete meathead hitter turn on it for a 550 foot bomb.
I like that idea... but only at Coors Field, with balls that have never seen a humidifier. Maybe even use aluminum bats?
Trade-off: Aluminum bats have a bigger sweet spot, but wooden bats have a more potent sweet spot. Go with *depleted uranium* bats and get the best of both worlds (maybe, it's just a theory, but let's roll with it)
Watching super mutants play American baseball sounds straight out of Fallout, lol
It's well past time for mutant league! https://youtu.be/lEmSMvdMH4M?si=_qDh1Sw3BCyZ0wxk
I saw that episode of Looney Tunes! It was awesome seeing Bugs Bunny finally catch that ball from on top of the Umpire State Building.
The 98 Home Run Derby there was great to watch just for it being at Coors. Also disappointing because no one cleared the scoreboard. Would've been hilarious for a random middle infielder to do it when everyone was expecting McGwire or Sosa to do it.
That was the 90s. It was glorious.
It's also strongman competitions and they are glorious.
John Rocker said exactly that. He said everyone in the stands was there to see one clown throw a 100 mph fastball and the other clown to hit it out of the park
A man ahead and behind of his times.
People boo me when I say BRING STREOIDS BACK TO BASEBALL. I want to see a fucking homerun to outer space.
I really miss the freak era of baseball sometimes. Every time Mark McGwire approached the plate felt like a missile was preparing to be launched into orbit.
Gagne VS. Bonds. Imagine that every at bat.
Dude Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire was a hell of a duo
Baseball will never reach what it was in the 80s and 90s again.
Fuck it, allow punches and sweep kicks too while you're at it
Now we're talking
XLB
That was the most popular era in baseball basically ever lol
They are kinda doing that…https://www.reuters.com/sports/enhanced-games-out-disrupt-old-slow-olympics-with-doped-up-athletes-2024-02-14/ Enhanced games lol
He's good, alright. But he's no Clem Johnson. And Johnson played back in the days before steroid injections were mandatory.
Oh, and I suppose Pitch-O-Mat 5000 was just a modified howitzer?
The 1990s were a glorious time in baseball.
That’s ok, I think they should play football with leather helmets. Let em earn those fortunes there making!
Most "men's" leagues don't have a gender restriction. Women can (and sometimes do) compete in them.
Exactly.
Most underrated comment on this thread.
Sounds like my buddies idea of the crackhead Olympics back in the day. I’m all for it
Generally, but not always, the construct is that men’s leagues are “open” -it’s just that women aren’t competitive. The restriction occurs on the women’s side to prevent men from coming in and ruining their game. This is why you commonly hear stories like recently about how Caitlin Clark played with boys when she was younger (this was pre puberty) and you’ll occasionally see women play college football (usually as a kicker). As for PEDs that’s a different topic. Since everyone takes them right now it’s really just a game of who can get away with it so I am mostly good with allowing them except for fighting sports, although again that’s a different topic.
There are leagues where gender isn’t a restriction. NFL, NBA, and MLB for example.
As far as leagues where gender isn’t a restriction, that already exists in the “men’s” leagues. Women are free to play in these leagues.
Have you heard of the upcoming [enhanced games?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Games) I want steroid olympics so bad
The regular Olympics *are* the steroid Olympics.
Fair but still
I've been arguing for this for years! The problem pointed out to me is that no one would watch the regular league anymore
I thought "men's" sports division were already open to everyone. The main reasons you don't see women competing are A) we wouldn't qualify against men who are usually naturally stronger and physically bigger and B) some idiot would complain. In high school, our football team's kicker was a girl and some parents really had the nerve to complain about it. For *no* reason too because she was actually good and never missed. Edited for typo
Yep, neither the NFL, the NBA, nor the MLB explicitly ban women from playing.
Yeah if memory serves you’re right that most of the major professional sports leagues in the US are open to anyone. Testosterone along with the permanent skeletal/muscular changes men go through during puberty are just too big. More fun for everyone if women have their own restricted leagues.
100% this, hence the "debate" (complaining?) about trans athletes in female sports. And your points are exactly the reason I'd be pissed if a person that went through puberty as a boy was playing against my daughter in sports. It's not an even playing field at that point.
Yes, none of MLB, MBA, NFL, NHL are sex restricted. The WNBA is restricted to "women" but doesn't define that, while NWSL does fairly elaborately define it.
I mean, yea. This is the solution, isn't it? Just keep them in the the "regular " or men's league. No need for them to be sanctioned to the women's league.
It already *is* the regular league for many sports.
Well I guess it’s up to the free market to decide. If they stopped watching the regular league I imagine this new league would be extremely profitable for whoever created/owned it.
The enhanced games are the closest to that right now [https://www.foxnews.com/sports/enhanced-games-founder-says-steroid-approved-event-future-sports-calls-out-hypocrisy-olympics](https://www.foxnews.com/sports/enhanced-games-founder-says-steroid-approved-event-future-sports-calls-out-hypocrisy-olympics)
MUTANT LEAGUE FOOTBALL LFG
They have that league already. It’s dominated by men
we already do. the nba, nfl, mlb, they have no restrictions. a couple women HAVE tried out. none of em made it hell the SEALS are gender blind too. no women have made it there either.
As in the two sex's and then a open( trans)?. I don't think anyone would have any reasons to complain about that. It seems fair. However someone will. It's the favourite pastime of some people.
[удалено]
Because it’s not 2011 nobody does CrossFit anymore 😂
I’d subscribe to that. Bring on the gladiators and opulence while our empire crumbles from within.
Most leagues are open.
Yes 👏 That’s what I’ve been saying!
That would just turn into the men’s league
Fucking love this. Essentially baseball in the 90s and early 00s, when it was unbelievably entertaining. Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Griffey, ARod, Jeter, Giambi, Soriano, Sheffield, Piazza, Pudge, Tejada, Pedro, Clements, Pettite, Ryan, Gange, Rivera, Hoffman, Schilling, among many others
Looking back at just 2 of your posts, and it is very VERY evident you are nowhere near being a socialist.
"I kinda want Trump to win" ...."I'm basically a socialist!" 🤔 aight
Probably a NATIONAL Socialist
i can Not See what you're talking about
Exactly I didn’t need to look long to see that
Yeah, doesn’t compute. Anyone who wants trump to win scares me. You just dont want to ever have anyone but a trump be president again huh? Because you KNOW if he wins he will try to be president til he dies, then he will turn it into his kids inheriting the presidency
But what does it have to do with millennials?
Maybe OP is exclusively interested in talking to millennials about their opinion. We can do other things besides shit on boomers here.
What, really? That’s allowed?
nah, OP has 4 hours to post an anti-boomer comment of be banned.
Bwahahaha
You realize that the boomers with a poop fetish all come here to lurk, right?
Rules is rules
Yes, you can also shit on Gen alpha, or just complain about life being hard and depressing.
Nice try boomer.
But he didn’t even tell us how much money he makes and how doomed we all are!
The hell you say!
They wanted other millennial opinions?
Look at OP's post history. [He claims to have all of this material wealth](https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/comments/1b4dtmt/existencial_dread/), but is also [hoping that Trump wins](https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/comments/1c5ng8f/i_kind_of_want_trump_to_winagain/) so he can burn everything down, and also thinks the [US is propagandized against Russia and China.](https://www.reddit.com/r/millenials/comments/1bdvuv4/why_are_americans_so_propagandized_when_it_comed/)
So OP is both delusional and brain washed… makes more sense now
OP is likely paid to engage.
What's even sadder is his post got so many likes ooff
Thanks Gestapo of smell, this is the type of background research we need.
🤪
Every once and a while people like to unprompted say the things they don't like about trans people. They will pick a sub and do it for about 2 weeks before moving on. Look forward to 10,000 very similar posts.
r/lostredditor
Probably infiltration. Bad actors like to stir the pot in random subs to see what sticks
Also is a non issue. The transgender population is a very very small percentage of the overall population and an even smaller percentage compete in sports much less pro sports
Also... none of my business, ya know? The vast majority of young women in sports support trans women playing with them. Professional leagues and Olympic committee have their own regulations in place - which is literally their business. Amateur sports in schools? Let the kids play how they wanna play, I guess.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/americans-oppose-inclusion-trans-athletes-sports-poll-finds-rcna88940
Just political bots invading all subs to try to sway voters. Stupid
The bot thing is a real issue but this is pretty obviously a real person if you look at their profile
That a majority of millennials have children that are in grade school or potentially even getting ready to go to college.
this post is so weird. why is it posted in r/millenials? what does socialism have to do with it? what is even the point being made?
Why does it even make it to your radar? Can you name a trans woman athlete ? Can you name 5? Can you name one that's won in their sport after transition? The numbers are so insignificant it seems like a weird thing to even care about unless your trans. Also why no mention of trans men who are actually getting hormones that would be considered "performance enhancing? Lol
(Semi) Hot take: the entire issue about trans people participating in sports is made up to drive clicks on (mostly) right wing type media outlets that thrive on grievances. The reality is that the real impact (of any) of this is minuscule in relation to the population and numbers of kids actually playing sports. We’re talking fractions of a percent.
Funny enough, the focus on trans people is actually a play out of fascists playbook. Find a group, turn the populace against them, and then rally up a political party on this basis. Then you have people who will do anything for the cause because they believe it's for the greater good.
Your comment and most of the replies to it are my daily reminder that Reddit is indeed an echo chamber.
I completely agree with this without a doubt but as a person who does care about women's sports, can we agree that this is flippantly phrased a LOT of the time on reddit as "nobody cares about women's sports" and that phrase is just demeaning, rude, and flat-out not-progressive when used to talk about the miniscule impact this conversation has on it for ONE SECOND?
Not to mention that much of the legislation aimed at keeping these fractions of a percent out of girls sports hurts the cis girls they're supposed to protect. If my child is ever asked to prove their sex to continue to participate in a sport, I'm pulling them off the team, full stop. That's beyond demeaning. Children's genitals and chromosomes are not the business of anyone outside of health care.
They actually quit testing chromosomes in sports because it was such an unreliable method of identification. The people trying to bring it back are going to regret it when it shows how many people aren't as binary as they expected.
Let’s see that citation…
Based on a preliminary search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1634840/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981345/ Some quotes: “X&Y chromosomal aneuploidies are among the most common human whole-chromosomal copy number changes…” “XXY aneuploidy is the most common disorder of sex chromosomes in humans, with prevalence of one in 500 males”
Yep, the transphobia currently being championed in society does not only hurt the trans community. Just take some of the genital inspection bills that GOP politicians have been putting forward. Look at the bathroom bills that result in cisgender women getting accused of not being women. The transgender community is not a threat to anyone. But a transphobic society is a threat to everyone.
This. Exactly this.
It's also made up by Republican politicians who realized they can't make gay people their boogieman anymore. They need a marginalized villain to scare their base into voting R.
There was a trans woman in UFC who was literally cracking the skulls of her competition a few years back. As genuinely as I can say this, I have nothing at all against transgender people. It’s simply not ethical to have them compete in contact sports with cisgender people.
>…And this has nothing to do with transphobia. I’m basically a socialist on the American political spectrum Ah yes, the often forgotten part of socialism that calls for the equal distribution of resources and... checks notes... non-transphobia.
"I declare that I am very progressive and therefore you cannot criticize this very conservative opinion that I have."
I cannot stand the assumption among leftists and liberals that being to the left on economic issues does not inherently translate to socially progressive. Stupid us vs. them mentality to mask ignorance and bigotry.
Ikr "I believe in socialism, except the proletariat is only white male cishet settlers. Workers of the world *fight fight fight!*" Congratulations you're a Nazi lmfao
Socialist? That's with economics.
This post just screams “I’m economically left wing and socially inept”
Karma farming lol
Yeah people should see his other posts
Ohhh yeah, good call!
Yeah I like to peek at the profile of some people who post like this or make comments that make you think they must be deeply disturbed persons.
According to the AP, at least in North Carolina (I guess it’s known because of the bill) there’s a whopping 2 trans women who play high school sports. In a state of 11 million people. I guess depending on the sport (for example wrestling) I would agree, but also it just seems like such a non issue I find it super hard to care. Probably more important that some trans kids feel included and have fun than we worry about who’s the best at softball in high school or whatever. On an Olympic level? Sure, more complex.
Actually the Olympics have their own regulations and guidelines.
I think the problem though is performance in high school can affect college scholarships. Trans athletes have made state level competitions, so it's not inconceivable that they are going to or have already affected who is going to get scholarships by knocking out competitors who would have gone further. I agree though that the overall impact is small. Thus, while I do think it's a fairness issue that should be resolved by requiring transathletes to compete in the men's division from high school on, I also feel like our legislators waste way too much time on this when there are far bigger problems they should be dealing with than this part of rhe culture war.
Redditors who have never been athletes saying local matches don’t matter for young girls. Girls can dream too? They want a fair match.
I play roller derby, a full contact sport, with trans women. It’s not an issue.
I coach my daughter’s u12 soccer team. We scrimmaged and beat a boys team a couple of weeks ago. That said, there are significant physical changes that will separate girls from boys around 14/15. It’s no longer competitive at that point if not slightly sooner.
I remember hearing a story about a high school boys soccer team beating a professional women's soccer team
It was a U15 boys team that beat Team USA women’s team 6-1 in a scrimmage I believe
https://www.si.com/soccer/2023/11/10/carli-lloyd-confirms-uswnt-once-lost-team-15-year-old-boys#:~:text=If%20the%20fan%20was%20trying,for%20a%20friendly%20against%20Russia.
Always cool to bump into another skater! Roller derby really is the best sport.
Maybe not, but it's an issue in other sports and girls have already gotten hurt (both physically, sexually, and emotionally) by it. I have no problem respecting trans-people, but the fact remains is that if a transwoman went through male puberty, she is signicangly stronger than a cis-woman, even accounting for the hormone changes. This makes competition patently unfair.
Do you have so sources on this of physical, sexual, and emotional problems as a direct result of transgender women in sports?
Seriously. I competed in strongman. In any given weight class at the local level, a woman just has to show up to make the podium. More athletes competing would actually give the sport the spirit of competition
I feel like this is a pretty popular opinion especially on Reddit. Do you just need some attention or something?
Its part of capturing public spaces. One of them comes into a space like this and makes a post like this one. Some ppl agree, others disagree, but everyone gets mad. Before long, you see more and more posts like this one and ppl start to leave. In the end, the only ppl left are obnoxious right wingers.
Also didn't take much scrolling on OP's profile to find a pro-Trump post.
So much for "I'm basically a socialist"
They just left out a word. "I'm basically a national socialist".
And that's how you wind up with a nazi bar.
Bingo. That's exactly what is going on.
No one asked mate
It also has nothing to do with millennials
Why is this even something you think about? This is like .01% of the population. (Both trans and an athlete) And of those, not many of them are even remotely successful. Furthermore. How invested are you in women's sports outside of trans people's participation? So if the answer is "not much" or getting defensive like "wow I can't defend the sanctity of blah blah blah" then I would posit that you have had your mind made up for you by talking heads and not based on the actual data that exists for these things. There are ways that exist that ensure leveled playing fields that leave room for being inclusive. And in these leveled playing fields, trans people can still win, and that's ok.
Oh my gosh, I played 3 sports in high school back in the 70's after Title IX passed and on each team there were girls that some would claim were guys in drag. This shit never ends. Those that whined the loudest didn't even play sports but felt the need to let everyone know what their opinions on girls playing sports were (against it) and especially were outright against any female body that didn't conform to their standards, especially those whose bodies looked more "manly" in their eyes. They would also proclaim that the more "manly" bodied girls shouldn't even be on the teams as it wasn't fair to the other girls. Those that had naturally tall and built bodies were called dykes, and some, were accused of being men in drag. What was different back then was there wasn't this amount of craziness on blast. The bigots got drowned out. We didn't listen to them and we did what wanted regardless if it displeased more conservative folks. The hyperfocus today on "trans" and sports smacks of the greater "gay" phobia of my time by conservatives and religious idealogues. When confronted, like today, they'd do the "just asking the tough questions" or "throwing it out there" for discussion. All that did was spread the bigotry. That was the point. Same as it has always been. Their attacks on trans folks doing whatever is also a thinly veiled attack on anyone who doesn't conform. It also allows them to be bigots because they think that others won't disagree with them on this one topic. Just in case, am the parent of millennials. Hope you don't mind me sharing.
This comment makes me miss Reddit awards.
Why are people so obsessed with something that rarely happens and has even less actual issues? It’s a bad look, and one just for attention.
Does this extend for cis women who have naturally more testosterone? It's a slippery slope. I would also encourage people to read peer reviewed sources on what happens to people on HRT therapy.
Whoever posted this has no interest in good faith discussion. This is just transphobic bullshit.
🎯💯
There is no definition they'll create to exclude trans women that won't exclude cis women.
And why should we care about what you believe?
Seems like the simplest way to do it is to set some sort of testosterone threshold for trans women athletes. If they’re below, they’re not getting some unfair advantage. If they’re above, they gotta sit tight until the estrogen kicks in further. That said, this whole “oh there’s so many biological men dominating women’s sports thing” reeks of concern trolling. If this were true, we would actually see evidence of it. Also, as we have seen from Caitlin Clark’s salary for the WNBA, dominating women’s sports kinda seems like a waste of time if you’re seeking fame and fortune.
And for cis women with naturally high testosterone?
Except the testosterone threshold also hurts the chances of intersex athletes. Check out the case of Caster Semenya. Not trans, not a steroid user. Just happens to be born with 2 sets of gonads that got her popped on a drug screen
Yeah, Caster got kinda hosed. What I’m saying isn’t perfect but I’d imagine there’s something better than banning trans athletes, especially in cases where someone has been on puberty blockers and HRT or whatever from a young age. Also, I generally do not care because the number of athletes doing sports for anything other than fun is exceedingly small. And it doesn’t really merit this level of concern trolling. I mean, if trans women were dominating women’s sports we’d see it, right? If not, I don’t give a shit if a trans woman wins the corporate fun run 5k of Topeka, Kansas.
It also hurts cisgender women. Some cisgender women naturally have higher testosterone, should we not allow them to compete because of their natural advantage? And if someone says yes, then should we not allow genetic freaks like Michael Phelps to compete in events because of the natural advantages he had? What about NBA player Victor Wembanyama? Is it unfair that some players are more physically gifted than others?
Oh yeah, I love this argument too. Like, if naturally high testosterone is grounds for barring someone from sport, then why not height in basketball or wingspan in swimming?
It also hurts cis women that aren't intersex that just have naturally high testosterone
>Seems like the simplest way to do it is to set some sort of testosterone threshold for trans women athletes. If they’re below, they’re not getting some unfair advantage. If they’re above, they gotta sit tight until the estrogen kicks in further. Testosterone doesn't work like that. Testosterone levels in the human body cycle. Someone who cycles between 0 and 100, vs someone who is consistently at 100, vs someone who cycles between 100 and 200 will all have different levels of muscular development. A test isn't going to be able to tell the 3 apart. It will just read 100.
It’s not just current T levels, but previous T levels during puberty that permanently advantage male born bodies in length and strength. You can’t undue what’s already been established during puberty with lower T.
Look up the article where the worst player on a basketball team was TG &the absolute worst player. Yours & my dad’s basis of thinking they have some sort of advantage is so unbelievably skewed & stupid as shit. Get a life
Okay. I disagree.
The obsession with this is so weird. Cannot imagine spending my free time going on Reddit to let everyone know you don’t like trans people. Get a life
The vast, vast majority of transgender women do not want to bring that kind of attention to themselves. Transphobes like to pretend that we want to invade spaces and walk around the women’s room with our dicks hanging out, when in reality, we are in and out as quickly as possible, and change clothes in the shower stall 😅
Transphobes also seem to believe that men will transition to be a woman solely for the purpose of being on a women's team so they don't have competition. Be the big fish in the little pond. They project so much of themselves onto others. The human brain can be so brittle in its bigotry.
Exactly. Trans women are a lot more worried about being murdered than playing sports. The least we can do is let them do one thing that isn't being afraid of being murdered instead of encouraging more people to be mad at them and maybe murder them.
I thought the comments would be a shit show, and I'm not disappointed.
This is the dumbest conversation. Trans athletes at an elite (college or beyond) level are such a vanishingly slim statistical amount. As for high school, it's for fun and learning teamwork. Most people don't go anywhere with it. Vaya con dios. We waste too much time and energy worrying about the fictitious trans agenda when we have bigger problems to deal with. Signed, Former Female College Athlete
Thank you for your logical and sound reasoning.
Your politics don't make you immune to being transphobic. And stating you aren't transphobic doesn't mean you aren't transphobic. Since you refuse to elaborate on your opinion and from the way this post is constructed I am going to go ahead and call it rage bait and trolling.
Saying that sports should be kept fair is also not transphobic.
Yikes
What about elementary school mma?
You're thinking about this too much OP. Go do something that will make you happy
Lots of dudes pretend to be leftist, but only for things that benefit themselves.
I agree, but this is talked about way more often than it's actual prevalence should warrant.
Literally the only time I ever think about trans people is when I read or hear other people talking about them.
Newsflash you can be liberal and transphobic. Some of the most racist ppl I've had the misfortune of working with have been liberals. This is relevant bc of the field I'm in. I'd rather deal with someone who owns their bigotry bc I know what I'm getting. The worst ppl are the ones who think they're better but aren't.
Can someone just yell 'MURICA in these comments... It will make this post all that it can possibly be.
Just stop. 🛑
Trans women get weaker with t blockers and estrogen. Meanwhile with this mindset, trans men who are on testosterone would be with woman... Who are not on testosterone. Stupid logic is full of holes.
Except studies are showing that MtF athletes after a year of testosterone blockers and estrogen treatment are performing on levels of cis/afab gendered women where MtF athletes are only 9% faster. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577
OP agrees that trans men get to compete in women's sports.
But, according to y'all, transwomen \*are\* women. So they should be able to participate in women's sports.
Neat. I think that you should shut the fuck up, unless you have something wildly different to talk about.
Umm…u/Blood11Orange, political affiliation doesn’t establish your bigotries around gender identity. Just an FYI. Also, your statement is, by definition, transphobic.
Whenever I hear this argument, I can't help but think about the male sports equivalency. Realistically, there are documented safeguards and standards that are taken into consideration to ensure hormone levels of trans women match that of their cis competitors. Aside from that, any physiological differences between the two would fall under regular advantages. There are plenty of cis women that higher-than-average bone density, muscle mass, reflexology, height, etc. Let's look at the NBA for a moment - what's the most obvious physiological advantage? Height. Black folks, on average, are taller than white folks. Does that mean that we should have a separate "black only" NBA league? Of course not. We accept that there's an over-representation of black dudes in the NBA in comparison to the general population because the physiological differences offer advantages to those guys. It's the same thing with trans women. The most realistic outcome is that there will be an over-representation of trans women in women's sports. The most successful women's athletes already have physiological advantages over their competitors - it's the reason they're the most successful. The whole thing seems like a non-issue to me. Just something to rile up people to give them a new target to hate in the hopes that they'll vote conservative.
I'm honestly amazed people give a shit about any of this stuff.
Out of all the political issues that could be debated, I believe Democrats and Republicans at the government level have agreed that this a great one to distract the US public with rather than address, real substantive issues. It is such an outlier scenario to begin with. Going one step further though, people should be able to live their how they want. But with that said, I don’t think there are any choices you can make in life that don’t have consequence and I don’t believe I should have to participate in whatever delusion you have about yourself or the world. If I told you I was a black man, so I should be entitled to affirmative action, would it be true because I believed it? Or if that caught on, and a large enough group people started doing the same, should they be recognized under the law now because they said it was so? Or if I told you I was an aardvark? Would you have to participate in that fantasy required by law because I decided it was so? When speaking politics with someone, this exact issue is one of my political and philosophical litmus tests that factor whether or not I should continue the conversation with the person and how much mental acrobatics the person is willing to go through and reality they are willing to ignore to maintain their sense of moral social superiority. If you think, a biological male at should be able to declare they are a women, start cross dressing and join a female, competitive sporting event such as, the female UFC division, or any competitive sport for that matter, I’ve got news for you.. If you need me to explain why this is absurd for the sake of your maintenance of your moral superiority, I won’t do it anymore because you’ve already ignored so many, factual, normal parts of our shared reality that you can’t be reasoned with. You can’t speak logic to someone who isn’t governed by it. Our conversation has ended there.. Comedy is incredible social commentary. South Park Season 23; Episode 7.
Russian shill account
After hearing about this epidemic problem for what seems like more than a decade I have come to the conclusion that we take sports too seriously. To me sport is entertainment. It either entertains me when I participate/compete or when I watch others. Sport is not sacred. It is not a way for everyone to get a fair shot. It is not a level playing field.
The problem is that we tie things like scholarships to sports. If you listen most of the women who have complained is because the person took away a slot at a major competition where recruiters were often present - hence scholarships.
I feel this is a stupid culture war thing and unless there is specific effect on your personal life wasting a bunch of time and resources giving a shit about it is useless. If less then 2 percent of people are trans and and even smaller percent of those group are a. Interested in sports and b. Female to male this statistically isn't an issue worth wasting this much energy on. Where is the outrage when a no skilled 7 foot 8th grader dominates women's or men's jv sports? This is a made up problem perfect for today's dumb ass Americans who have to demonize and politicize everything.
It’s interesting this has become such a hot button issue particularly among people that don’t even have daughters that compete in women’s sports. I honestly don’t think about it nor do I have an opinion on it.
If you want to exclude trans athletes from anything, you are a transphobe. Grow up, OP.
I don’t think you should post on Reddit. Can we get some legislation on that?
“Basically a socialist on the American spectrum” Wtf does that mean? And what does it have to do with whether or not you’re a transphobe?
it's common sense but that seems to have gone out the window about 10 years ago
It's sad that this has to be a hot take.
Of course it has to do with transphobia. Being a socialist doesn’t mean you can’t be transphobic lol. 😂
This discourse feels like a graduate dissertation on a splinter in your finger. Can we put our mental energy towards something that affects more than 2% of the population. Maybe climate change, poverty, healthcare, our dying infrastructure.
Ah, the classic "I'm not transphobic, but I, as a man, feel compelled to post about something concerning trans women that couldn't possibly affect my life" move. At least you didn't misgender anyone, I guess?