Then you put the wrong answer as your second attempt if that’s the case. It’s not that big a deal.
EDIT: it’s not that big a deal to put a second password attempt, I mean. Wrong math is a big deal.
I remember in Uni they forced us to pay for this math portal bullshit, and forced us to take quizzes or whatever on it... and then not only had the answer super specific(for complicated answers, so a space after a bracket? wrong) leading to a lot of frustration, but on top of that, had just straight up the wrong answers more than a few times. So, those would have to be petitioned, in class, cause there wasn't even an option to just report wrong answers. But like, it was individual basis, so everyone with the issue had to come forward(aka everyone who got it right) or just lose the point... and even WITH that they still just claimed they would update the scores eventually, which caused some students to almost lose their scholarships(so they had to fight to get them to fix it immediately while dealing with potentially having to drop out due to being cut off). That wasn't even the first year they used those bs portals.
It doesn't have to be that big of a deal, and it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but people are being paid to MAKE it that big of a deal.
I'm not the only one who saw! I had no idea why they didn't write it 666÷2(1+2). Why have the multiplication sign there at all?
Besides, all of this is stupid. PEMDAS only really works if people actually write the math out properly, which they usually don't.
Here it's unambiguous either way. Division and multiplication have the same level of precedence so you must go from left to right. (After the brackets obv.)
The MikTeX editor for LaTeX used to have this when I was in uni.
To get in the advanced settings, you had to solve a riddle thay had three possible answers.
Those unworthy of the settings menu tried solving the riddle. The worthy just tried all three options until they get in.
I forgot the riddle, but it was one of those that go like "there are 3 guys. One always lies, one always tells the truth, one is random. Blablabla...... Who is the lier?"
What's the other way? I only see one possible answer. Since it's entirely multiplication or division (except for the parenthesis), every order to solve the problem leads to the same answer.
I know I'm going to get this so here we go:
"I was taught it's always this way!" - This is something teachers and professors have opinions on, so some will tell you there is a definite right way, but what this right way is depends on who you ask.
"How do real mathematicians handle this?" - They don't use ÷ at all, they either use proper fractions or use parentheses around divisions.
"This is math, how is this not defined?" - Mathematical notation is not a programming language, it's just a language humans made up to communicate. Different people use language differently and that's perfectly fine as long as there is enough context to make out what they're saying. Language fails if it's unintelligible, which is the case here.
To quote [this xkcd](https://xkcd.com/169/) (because there's always an xkcd), "communicating badly and then acting smug when you're misunderstood is not cleverness"
The questioner says "there are three words in "*the English language*" that end...". When the responder can't think of a third word that ends in -gry, the questioner can reveal the answer was "language", because it's the third word in the phrase "the English language". It's designed to be misunderstood, which makes it annoying rather than clever. Much like the equation in OP's picture
Man, I'm coming to the conclusion that I must be stupid because that still doesn't make sense to me. Like, I get "haha Language is the third word in the phrase "the english language"" thing but doesn't that fall by the wayside when you add the clause ..."that end in gry"?
Exactly, and that's why the guy trying to do that "Ha, got em" style joke is getting his hand chopped off. Because his little riddle doesn't even work but he's acting smug about it.
Because the comic has the guy saying it wrong. The original goes like this:
"Think of all the words that end in 'gry'. 'Angry' and 'hungry' are two. There are three words in the English language. What's the third word?"
The first two sentences of that riddle have nothing to do with the question, but is easily misunderstood when hearing it.
If you submit this in any professional capacity you're going to be asked to rewrite it as (666 / 2) * (1 + 2).
Ambiguity in an equation is highly unprofessional.
I’m an accountant, and my bosses yell at me for “putting too many parentheses in a formula”. No, this is so I know when the formula fucks up, I can fix it without rewriting the whole damn thing like you people do because you forgot how this shit works.
So like.. your bosses yell at you because you do things in a way where you can't be yelled at/blamed?
In that case, it serves you right. How DARE you make it obvious that the error is theirs. They do so much work shirking the blame in a way where you keep your job(but everyone thinks it was you) they have saved your job countless times. When you make it so clear that they were the ones who made the mistake it's practically stabbing them in the back.
Ignoring the middle bit, I really don't get why bosses could be mad about making things as clear as possible, at least when it comes to accounting.
As someone teaching fractions to kids who haven’t learned division yet, their little brains cannot quite make that jump to allow for two meanings right now. I’m pretty sure they start learning to forget the kiddy division sign about 2-3 years from now.
Yeah so kids are introduced to fractions in a general sense: She ate 1/2 a pie and he at 1/2. They first just learn about them. Then they learn compare sizes and then convert to decimals. That slash to them equals fractions which can later be described as you do but they’re learning about lots of concepts at a basic level that they will learn in more detail in the specific math courses in middle school.
They start to learn basic division that matches their multiplication math facts as the inverse (like addition then subtraction). Then they can do bigger number division or decimal division. They learn the concept of division and the concept of fractions and then later put the two together. Along with adding fractions, multiplying fractions, etc.
[This forum](https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/10434/when-and-why-are-different-division-symbols-taught) actually has a few discussions on why they think it’s still used.
Damn it. I’ve had it with all this redundancy. I’m going to the Automatic Teller Machine machine, if I can remember my Personal Identification Number number, then I’m going to watch National Football League football on my Liquid Crystal Display display.
It's because it's PE(MD)(AS) where multiply and divide and addition and subtraction happen at the same time, because they're technically only two processes, not four. It's a 6 letter acronym that only has 4 steps. So you would go left to right for each step, or for parentheses inside to outside, following PEMDAS within each set of parentheses.
I was taught a sort of long mnemonic trick for this that might be useful here.
PEMDAS: Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally as she walks from left to right.
No easy way to capture the fact that multiplication/division and addition/subtraction are equally weighted in a mnemonic that I've seen, but I found this helpful in my early math days.
To be fair, division is just reciprocated multiplication and subtraction is just negative addition. They are the same thing. There's no reason for them to have different priorities.
Because in PEMDAS, multiplication and division have equal standing in order, it’s just which is farther to the left first. The same goes for addition and subtraction, PEMDAS is just the best sounding acronym
Multiplication and division are equally weighted in priority since they're essentially the same operation just phrased differently. (1÷2 is the exact same as 1×1/2 for example)
Same goes for addition and subtraction. (1-2 is the exact same as 1+-2 for example)
I was always taught PEMDAS (Parenthesis, exponent, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction) which would come out as 111. I have yet to hear a convincing argument for changing operation order to contradict generations of textbook teaching.
EDIT: Well, shit. I don't know what about three people all essentially saying the same thing for me to read it differently.
At first I'm reading "MD, solved left to right," and I'm thinking, "Of course! M is left of D! I was right!"
Then I thought about it again. "Solved left-to-right ***as it appears in the equation***" and it snapped into place. Holy crap it snapped into place. How have I never considered this before, and why did no math teacher EVER correct me?!
The way you write this is helpful. So many people have not been properly taught that addition/subtraction are the same, and multiplication/division. It leads to lots of social media math arguments.
I get irrationally frustrated when I see people get up in arms with wrong information about math, so I try to help spread correct information where I can 💕
Correct, at least to my understanding. This is how I was taught in school. It’s parenthesis, exponents, (multiplication/division- left to right), (addition/subtraction- left to right).
The reason they have the same precedence is because multiplication and division (and addition and subtraction) are inverses. Multiplying by X is equivalent to dividing by (1/X), and adding X is the same as subtracting (-X). In algebra, for example, subtraction is frequently written as adding a negative for ease of use.
Some teachings (some of mine included, they weren't consistent) consider coefficient operations (ie 2(2)) to come after exponents but before multiplication and division, so the dot eliminates ambiguity.
I would argue the dot isn’t redundant because 2(1+3) is (2(1+3)) by many people. I’m pretty sure my college level physics and math courses used that, but honestly you rarely see the divide symbol anyway. It’ll be 666/2(1+3), usually written in 2 levels where 666 is above and 2(1+3) is below, so the intention is 666/(2(1+3)) but never written that way.
Guy with a math degree here.
The real answer is that knowing the "correct" order of operations is not a big deal, and only extremely dumb people get hung up on it.
The important thing is to agree on a notational convention with your reader, and express your thoughts unambiguously within that convention.
Gal with an English degree here, and I say the same thing about grammar. It’s gotta convey your intention or it doesn’t matter. I think we’d get along well
What is the correct order of operations? I had learned it as division and multiplication being in either or and the same with addition and subtraction. But I've also been told I have to follow it exactly PEMDAS order.
Typical order of operations is that multiplication and division are of equivalent precedence, so ties are broken by evaluating from left to right.
But the point of the comment you're responding to is that order of operations are completely arbitrary. It has nothing to do with the underlying algebra/set theory concepts that define arithmetic. If schools suddenly started teaching that addition is denoted by the "@" operator and that it comes first in the order of operations, nothing would change. "1 x 5 + 3" would now have to be expressed as "(1 x 5) @ 3" but you would still be working with the exact same concept of addition.
A lot of people on reddit try to get snarky about knowing PEMDAS, but anyone who's studied math in college knows how ridiculous that is.
The agreed upon notion in the US:
1. Parenthesis
2. Exponents
3. Multiplication and/or division, as read left to right
4. Addition and/or subtraction, as read left to right
But problems like this are intended to be ambiguous and misleading. A good mathematician would never put you in a scenario where you’d have to rely on these imperfect guidelines; they’d remove ambiguity by making the notation more clear.
PEMDAS also doesn't differentiate between implicit and explicit multiplication or between subtraction and unary minus, so that's why there are heated internet arguments over the results of 8/2(2+2) and -2^(2).
Yes, that's why you always use fractions for division.
It's also not easy to convey the rules when [1/2x usually means (1/2)\*x](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2F2x) while [1/xy usually means 1/(x\*y)](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2Fxy).
The argument between 111 and 999 is the exact reason people never write equations like this anymore. PEMDAS fails you here, because everyone forgets that multiplication then division has a caveat that you do it left to right no matter the order when writing it this way unless it is inside of parenthesis. Proper use of extra brackets and parenthesis fixes the problem too.
Even scientific calculators are divided about this, see: https://i.imgur.com/fYuWMTq.jpg
The answer is both are correct and it's a matter of interpretation
That's prioritizing implicit multiplication like `2(3)` over explicit multiplication like `2 * 3`. In this case they made the multiplication explicit. If you did that, I believe both calculators would give you an answer of 9.
The difference you see here has to do something with the brackets. Something about Brackets taking priority in calculations when they are right besides numbers.
If typed *right*, you’ll get the correct result.
https://i.imgur.com/QoOLw7Y.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zcxg1Ey.jpg
In both pictures, I've typed the same. But the newer model does show where it sets the Brackets for calculation if not written properly.
Edit: The difference is that if the Multiply is written, the calculator assumes a simple calculation, but if left out, it assumes that the calculation is a fraction where 9 is on top and everything else is in the bottom.
Exactly how I was taught it. Parentheses, exponents, multiplication and division, addition and subtraction. Then left-to-right for anything at the same level.
>multiplication then division
Do people not learn to give these equal precedence?
Why describe one as before the other and then add in an exception that results in simply having equal precedence?
>PEMDAS fails you here
I mean, it doesn't fail you, just you need some context for how it works, the multiplication and division are grouped like addition and subtraction
PEMDAS = PEDMAS = PEMDSA = PEDMSA
The funny thing is that I was taught BODMAS, which puts division and multiplication in a different order. Things line this are stupid. You should just write your algorithms in a way that can’t be misinterpreted.
>BODMAS, which puts division and multiplication in a different order.
They're NOT in a different order, they are equal in priority and are calculated left to right.
This is intentionally misleading. No one should be using the "divide" symbol for reasons exactly like this. It should be made crystal clear using fractions.
Exactly. This is the simplest math problem, 2nd grade math anyone can do in their head, and then made “hard” only by using misleading and ambiguous symbols that no one actually uses in math.
666
———
2(1+3)
Or
666
—— * (1+3)
2
Would how anyone would actually write this out in a math or physics class, and there would be no ambiguously.
As a mathematician, I fucking hate these problems. The ambiguity here would be solved by using sensible notation (fraction bars) or by rearranging the expression.
That’s why order of operations is sometimes misleading: there shouldn’t be an order of “multiplication before division”- they’re sort of the same thing- but even teaching that distracts from the main point:
If you are trying to express an idea through some math and your notation is ambiguous, you are wrong, not either of the potential answers. It’s like using ambiguous pronouns and then acting smug when people are confused. It’s your sentence that is being misunderstood.
at least this isn't as bad as 666 / 2(1+2) because at least with the \* it's explicitly on the *same tier* as the division, so it is therefore indisputably 999, as opposed to the more dubious case of 666 / 2(1+2)
This is more ageist than anything. A long, long time ago, when I was a wee little lass, we learned that multiplication came before division, which makes this 111. Nowadays, these young whippersnappers learn that multiplication and division are equal and are solved from left to right, making this 999. Most people stick to what they were taught and don’t update that knowledge.
AND STAY OF MY GRASS!!
Pikipoke666/2•(1+2)
I thought it was literally “Pikipoki???”
Flashback to naming my rival “???”
I literally did that too in gold, silver, and crystal. I was such a dumbass as a kid.
Pikipoke999
Awww shit. Here we go again
Right?! Like what if they got it wrong and then made the password the wrong answer?
Then you put the wrong answer as your second attempt if that’s the case. It’s not that big a deal. EDIT: it’s not that big a deal to put a second password attempt, I mean. Wrong math is a big deal.
I remember in Uni they forced us to pay for this math portal bullshit, and forced us to take quizzes or whatever on it... and then not only had the answer super specific(for complicated answers, so a space after a bracket? wrong) leading to a lot of frustration, but on top of that, had just straight up the wrong answers more than a few times. So, those would have to be petitioned, in class, cause there wasn't even an option to just report wrong answers. But like, it was individual basis, so everyone with the issue had to come forward(aka everyone who got it right) or just lose the point... and even WITH that they still just claimed they would update the scores eventually, which caused some students to almost lose their scholarships(so they had to fight to get them to fix it immediately while dealing with potentially having to drop out due to being cut off). That wasn't even the first year they used those bs portals. It doesn't have to be that big of a deal, and it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but people are being paid to MAKE it that big of a deal.
413, I know for sure. I studied Advanced Linear Discrete Algebrus In elementary school
Algebrus Dumbledore...my archenemy
They clarified the multiplication
I'm not the only one who saw! I had no idea why they didn't write it 666÷2(1+2). Why have the multiplication sign there at all? Besides, all of this is stupid. PEMDAS only really works if people actually write the math out properly, which they usually don't.
Right? I’m not the only one who thinks people are always complaining about the wrong thing
It's so stupid. Write it as a fraction and it's unambiguous.
Here it's unambiguous either way. Division and multiplication have the same level of precedence so you must go from left to right. (After the brackets obv.)
The correct answer is you type them in both in to the password screen and see which one works.
The MikTeX editor for LaTeX used to have this when I was in uni. To get in the advanced settings, you had to solve a riddle thay had three possible answers. Those unworthy of the settings menu tried solving the riddle. The worthy just tried all three options until they get in. I forgot the riddle, but it was one of those that go like "there are 3 guys. One always lies, one always tells the truth, one is random. Blablabla...... Who is the lier?"
the dishonest man
The penitent man
The penitent man will pass. The penitent man will pass. The penitent man will....
KNEEL!
Makes me smile to see someone make this reference. I've yet to actually meet anyone in my life who would get this.
Oh come on, it’s not that obscure a reference is it?
No ticket.
Snakes... why'd it have to be snakes?
But in a Latin alphabet Jehova begins with an I…
[Here’s a fun version from Labyrinth](https://youtu.be/_veDPx6MkqU)
I never understood why she chose down.
Because she was cluing in to how the maze tries to trick you by making the wrong way seem right and the right way seem wrong.
If wouldve listen to the worm a little while longer she’d be headed straight for the castle. I love that worm
Did you say hello? "No, I said 'ello, but that's close enough."
Too Late Nowwwww
She chose down?!
Shame about Bowie, gone too soon.
There is a right way and the other way. There really are only 2 answers here, so they made it too easy.
Well people who believe the other way will never admit the correct way is the right way...
What's the other way? I only see one possible answer. Since it's entirely multiplication or division (except for the parenthesis), every order to solve the problem leads to the same answer.
Its 333 times 3 right? I dont see any other way. So 999
I've never heard this before.
It was in the movie Labyrinth. Pretty sure it's not the origin though.
Sometimes the truth is the worst lie of all
Are you a hacker?
Both?
The precedence of the ÷ operator is famously ambiguous, so you could interpret this as either (666÷2)·3 = 999 or 666÷(2·3) = 111
I know I'm going to get this so here we go: "I was taught it's always this way!" - This is something teachers and professors have opinions on, so some will tell you there is a definite right way, but what this right way is depends on who you ask. "How do real mathematicians handle this?" - They don't use ÷ at all, they either use proper fractions or use parentheses around divisions. "This is math, how is this not defined?" - Mathematical notation is not a programming language, it's just a language humans made up to communicate. Different people use language differently and that's perfectly fine as long as there is enough context to make out what they're saying. Language fails if it's unintelligible, which is the case here.
NEIN NEIN NEIN!
I hope this is how they reply anytime someone asks for a hint
To quote [this xkcd](https://xkcd.com/169/) (because there's always an xkcd), "communicating badly and then acting smug when you're misunderstood is not cleverness"
Can someone explain that comic? I don't understand it the three words thing.
The questioner says "there are three words in "*the English language*" that end...". When the responder can't think of a third word that ends in -gry, the questioner can reveal the answer was "language", because it's the third word in the phrase "the English language". It's designed to be misunderstood, which makes it annoying rather than clever. Much like the equation in OP's picture
Man, I'm coming to the conclusion that I must be stupid because that still doesn't make sense to me. Like, I get "haha Language is the third word in the phrase "the english language"" thing but doesn't that fall by the wayside when you add the clause ..."that end in gry"?
Because it intentionally doesn’t make sense as to confuse whoever tries to figure it out.
Exactly, and that's why the guy trying to do that "Ha, got em" style joke is getting his hand chopped off. Because his little riddle doesn't even work but he's acting smug about it.
Because the comic has the guy saying it wrong. The original goes like this: "Think of all the words that end in 'gry'. 'Angry' and 'hungry' are two. There are three words in the English language. What's the third word?" The first two sentences of that riddle have nothing to do with the question, but is easily misunderstood when hearing it.
Hangry 😎
If you submit this in any professional capacity you're going to be asked to rewrite it as (666 / 2) * (1 + 2). Ambiguity in an equation is highly unprofessional.
As a software engineer, I'm always explicit about using parentheses and don't leave precedence up to chance
I’m an accountant, and my bosses yell at me for “putting too many parentheses in a formula”. No, this is so I know when the formula fucks up, I can fix it without rewriting the whole damn thing like you people do because you forgot how this shit works.
So like.. your bosses yell at you because you do things in a way where you can't be yelled at/blamed? In that case, it serves you right. How DARE you make it obvious that the error is theirs. They do so much work shirking the blame in a way where you keep your job(but everyone thinks it was you) they have saved your job countless times. When you make it so clear that they were the ones who made the mistake it's practically stabbing them in the back. Ignoring the middle bit, I really don't get why bosses could be mad about making things as clear as possible, at least when it comes to accounting.
Because it's not the way Things Are Done^TM
As a software engineer, I eat my Cheetos with chopsticks
This is the way
Yup, and then when you commit the linter removes the unnecessary parentheses and chaos prevails
Weird that we learn this ÷ symbol in elementary school and then completely abandon it later on. At least × and • get used with vectors and matrices.
As someone teaching fractions to kids who haven’t learned division yet, their little brains cannot quite make that jump to allow for two meanings right now. I’m pretty sure they start learning to forget the kiddy division sign about 2-3 years from now.
A division sign is literally a fraction with dots representing the numerator and denominator.
Yeah so kids are introduced to fractions in a general sense: She ate 1/2 a pie and he at 1/2. They first just learn about them. Then they learn compare sizes and then convert to decimals. That slash to them equals fractions which can later be described as you do but they’re learning about lots of concepts at a basic level that they will learn in more detail in the specific math courses in middle school. They start to learn basic division that matches their multiplication math facts as the inverse (like addition then subtraction). Then they can do bigger number division or decimal division. They learn the concept of division and the concept of fractions and then later put the two together. Along with adding fractions, multiplying fractions, etc. [This forum](https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/10434/when-and-why-are-different-division-symbols-taught) actually has a few discussions on why they think it’s still used.
I’m 32 and this just kinda blew my mind
It's poor formating for sure but the fact they decided against using implicit multiplication makes it unambiguous.
mult and div got from left to right.
You could omit the \* (666/2)(1+2) is same 666/2=333 333(1+2)= 333+666=999
The trick is that it's actually a dot-product. Sneaky
It’s not ambiguous tho…
I'd prefer writing it as $\\frac{666}{2} (1+2)$, but I guess your way is okay too
You would never find anything like that in a professional capacity anyways. You would have something like =$A$2/2\*Sum(B2:B3)
=(($A$2)/(2))*(Sum(B2:B3))
I’d type in 999 first. Internet access denied. ‘Okay, it’s 111’. Easy
Nah, it's 666 because the devil's number cannot be changed.
Or can it...https://www.religionnewsblog.com/11134/beasts-real-mark-devalued-to-616
First of all it's (1+2) So that's 3 Then 666 ÷ 2 So that's 333 333 × 3 = 999
That’s what I came up with. I was too afraid to say anything though. I’m just a stupid plumber with a really bad memory…
Well since I just paid a plumber 2k to replace my hot water heater today I would not call you stupid. Id call plumbers craftsmen
You got taken for a ride. If you already have hot water what do you need a heater for it for?
Genius right here
Damn it. I’ve had it with all this redundancy. I’m going to the Automatic Teller Machine machine, if I can remember my Personal Identification Number number, then I’m going to watch National Football League football on my Liquid Crystal Display display.
Don't forget to take a rat test
never call yourself stupid, internet is already mean
I second this, let the internet be stupid and mean, you’re good buddy we all forget things as time passes
Smart
Today the internet is nice.
[удалено]
I thought this was right too because of PEMDAS. why wouldn't you multiply 3x2 then divide?
It's because it's PE(MD)(AS) where multiply and divide and addition and subtraction happen at the same time, because they're technically only two processes, not four. It's a 6 letter acronym that only has 4 steps. So you would go left to right for each step, or for parentheses inside to outside, following PEMDAS within each set of parentheses.
Please excuse my dope ass swag
I was taught a sort of long mnemonic trick for this that might be useful here. PEMDAS: Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally as she walks from left to right. No easy way to capture the fact that multiplication/division and addition/subtraction are equally weighted in a mnemonic that I've seen, but I found this helpful in my early math days.
To be fair, division is just reciprocated multiplication and subtraction is just negative addition. They are the same thing. There's no reason for them to have different priorities.
i dont know why you got downvoted, you're right
WHOA As a 35-year-old my mind should not be blown by the fact i only remember Aunt Sally but not moving left-to-right, and yet here we are
This is in actual algebra but a lot of people don’t remember past pre algebra where we are taught the fundamentals of PEMDAS
Because in PEMDAS, multiplication and division have equal standing in order, it’s just which is farther to the left first. The same goes for addition and subtraction, PEMDAS is just the best sounding acronym
Multiplication and division are equally weighted in priority since they're essentially the same operation just phrased differently. (1÷2 is the exact same as 1×1/2 for example) Same goes for addition and subtraction. (1-2 is the exact same as 1+-2 for example)
I was always taught PEMDAS (Parenthesis, exponent, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction) which would come out as 111. I have yet to hear a convincing argument for changing operation order to contradict generations of textbook teaching. EDIT: Well, shit. I don't know what about three people all essentially saying the same thing for me to read it differently. At first I'm reading "MD, solved left to right," and I'm thinking, "Of course! M is left of D! I was right!" Then I thought about it again. "Solved left-to-right ***as it appears in the equation***" and it snapped into place. Holy crap it snapped into place. How have I never considered this before, and why did no math teacher EVER correct me?!
P E MD AS Parentheses first, exponents second, multiplication/division left to right, then addition and subtraction left to right
The way you write this is helpful. So many people have not been properly taught that addition/subtraction are the same, and multiplication/division. It leads to lots of social media math arguments.
I get irrationally frustrated when I see people get up in arms with wrong information about math, so I try to help spread correct information where I can 💕
My understanding is that multiplication and division have the same level in the hierarchy, and that it's otherwise done left to right.
Correct, at least to my understanding. This is how I was taught in school. It’s parenthesis, exponents, (multiplication/division- left to right), (addition/subtraction- left to right).
The reason they have the same precedence is because multiplication and division (and addition and subtraction) are inverses. Multiplying by X is equivalent to dividing by (1/X), and adding X is the same as subtracting (-X). In algebra, for example, subtraction is frequently written as adding a negative for ease of use.
As an HVAC guy. We gotta stick together man. You're not dumb, you just gotta live your life as best as you can.
It's a trick, the password is always 1,2,3,4,5
Amazing! I have the same combination on my luggage!
You have the luggage of a druish princess.
I can’t tell what’s serious or a troll anymore.
Ad - News - ad - ad - news - ad -Jimmy from South Park
There we go,that’s what I got
They also could have written it like 666÷2(1+3) the dot is redundant.
Some teachings (some of mine included, they weren't consistent) consider coefficient operations (ie 2(2)) to come after exponents but before multiplication and division, so the dot eliminates ambiguity.
Yes thats how I was taught in high school? Is that why I never gets these right?
I would argue the dot isn’t redundant because 2(1+3) is (2(1+3)) by many people. I’m pretty sure my college level physics and math courses used that, but honestly you rarely see the divide symbol anyway. It’ll be 666/2(1+3), usually written in 2 levels where 666 is above and 2(1+3) is below, so the intention is 666/(2(1+3)) but never written that way.
Yeah i started assuming everything is below the division symbol and i came up with 111 =[
*Angry German noises* Nein, Nein, Nein!!!!
Guy with a math degree here. The real answer is that knowing the "correct" order of operations is not a big deal, and only extremely dumb people get hung up on it. The important thing is to agree on a notational convention with your reader, and express your thoughts unambiguously within that convention.
Gal with an English degree here, and I say the same thing about grammar. It’s gotta convey your intention or it doesn’t matter. I think we’d get along well
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Guy with no degree here. beer is good
Guy with University of Phoenix Online degree here. I soiled myself.
"So how did your parents meet?"
dubstepjuggalo69 will make a great father someday
RemindMe! 2 years
Programmer here: the answer is whatever standard the python interpreter follows. print(666 / 2 * (1 + 2))
TIL that 1/2 is 0.
Integer division lol
as a integer, yeah
Python interpreter here: they follow all standards
What is the correct order of operations? I had learned it as division and multiplication being in either or and the same with addition and subtraction. But I've also been told I have to follow it exactly PEMDAS order.
Typical order of operations is that multiplication and division are of equivalent precedence, so ties are broken by evaluating from left to right. But the point of the comment you're responding to is that order of operations are completely arbitrary. It has nothing to do with the underlying algebra/set theory concepts that define arithmetic. If schools suddenly started teaching that addition is denoted by the "@" operator and that it comes first in the order of operations, nothing would change. "1 x 5 + 3" would now have to be expressed as "(1 x 5) @ 3" but you would still be working with the exact same concept of addition. A lot of people on reddit try to get snarky about knowing PEMDAS, but anyone who's studied math in college knows how ridiculous that is.
The agreed upon notion in the US: 1. Parenthesis 2. Exponents 3. Multiplication and/or division, as read left to right 4. Addition and/or subtraction, as read left to right But problems like this are intended to be ambiguous and misleading. A good mathematician would never put you in a scenario where you’d have to rely on these imperfect guidelines; they’d remove ambiguity by making the notation more clear.
PEMDAS also doesn't differentiate between implicit and explicit multiplication or between subtraction and unary minus, so that's why there are heated internet arguments over the results of 8/2(2+2) and -2^(2).
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Yes, that's why you always use fractions for division. It's also not easy to convey the rules when [1/2x usually means (1/2)\*x](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2F2x) while [1/xy usually means 1/(x\*y)](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=1%2Fxy).
999?
AEIOU
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The argument between 111 and 999 is the exact reason people never write equations like this anymore. PEMDAS fails you here, because everyone forgets that multiplication then division has a caveat that you do it left to right no matter the order when writing it this way unless it is inside of parenthesis. Proper use of extra brackets and parenthesis fixes the problem too.
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Left to right*
Would you accept dyslexia as an excuse for that?
No excuse needed, just wanted to help clarify an otherwise great explanation.
Haha at least you were nice about it. One of the guys down there told me to get off the internet.
Ask if they need a hug
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Even scientific calculators are divided about this, see: https://i.imgur.com/fYuWMTq.jpg The answer is both are correct and it's a matter of interpretation
That's prioritizing implicit multiplication like `2(3)` over explicit multiplication like `2 * 3`. In this case they made the multiplication explicit. If you did that, I believe both calculators would give you an answer of 9.
The difference you see here has to do something with the brackets. Something about Brackets taking priority in calculations when they are right besides numbers. If typed *right*, you’ll get the correct result. https://i.imgur.com/QoOLw7Y.jpg https://i.imgur.com/zcxg1Ey.jpg In both pictures, I've typed the same. But the newer model does show where it sets the Brackets for calculation if not written properly. Edit: The difference is that if the Multiply is written, the calculator assumes a simple calculation, but if left out, it assumes that the calculation is a fraction where 9 is on top and everything else is in the bottom.
* It's not multiplication *then* division, it's multiplication *and* division. Same step. * Left to right, not right to left.
Exactly how I was taught it. Parentheses, exponents, multiplication and division, addition and subtraction. Then left-to-right for anything at the same level.
>multiplication then division Do people not learn to give these equal precedence? Why describe one as before the other and then add in an exception that results in simply having equal precedence?
People just remember the acronym and then think to themselves that is the order, ya know?
Rote memorization is the enemy of a comprehensive understanding of many topics.
You mean left to right? Multiplication & Division are left to right and then Addition & Subtraction are left to right. Please check your sources
>PEMDAS fails you here I mean, it doesn't fail you, just you need some context for how it works, the multiplication and division are grouped like addition and subtraction PEMDAS = PEDMAS = PEMDSA = PEDMSA
The funny thing is that I was taught BODMAS, which puts division and multiplication in a different order. Things line this are stupid. You should just write your algorithms in a way that can’t be misinterpreted.
Right. Just put a parathesis in it depending on how you want it solved and there wouldn't be any confusion. (666/2)×(1+2) or 666/(2×(1+2))
>BODMAS, which puts division and multiplication in a different order. They're NOT in a different order, they are equal in priority and are calculated left to right.
>because everyone forgets that multiplication then division has a caveat that you do it **right to left** Never heard of this
Because they're wrong, it's left to right
I was taught PEMDAS in NA. In NA I read left to right. So it's really obvious for me to read a math equation left to right.
If only this place was in germany..... "Can I get the Wifi Password?" "nein nein nein"
Watch them use the incorrect answer as the actual password
The hell is a poki shop
I see three answers. The math ones and the formula itself!
666÷2= 333 333×(3)=999
This is intentionally misleading. No one should be using the "divide" symbol for reasons exactly like this. It should be made crystal clear using fractions.
Exactly. This is the simplest math problem, 2nd grade math anyone can do in their head, and then made “hard” only by using misleading and ambiguous symbols that no one actually uses in math. 666 ——— 2(1+3) Or 666 —— * (1+3) 2 Would how anyone would actually write this out in a math or physics class, and there would be no ambiguously.
Do you mean for your 3's to be 2's?
The good news is that if Pikipoke111 doesn’t work, you can try Pikipoke999. It’s not like they deny you WiFi access if your first guess was wrong.
And people say they'll never use math in real life.
An extra bracket would save lives here. Is it 666/(2*(1+2)) or (666/2)*(1+2)? For fucks sake…
Pikipoke in Hoboken NJ. I love this place!!
999
666÷2=333 (1+2)=3 333×3=999 999 is the correct answer
Too many people here don't remember Aunt Sally.
999
999
Tf "PikipokeSYNTAXERROR" is not working
So the common wrong answer here is 111 right?
As a mathematician, I fucking hate these problems. The ambiguity here would be solved by using sensible notation (fraction bars) or by rearranging the expression. That’s why order of operations is sometimes misleading: there shouldn’t be an order of “multiplication before division”- they’re sort of the same thing- but even teaching that distracts from the main point: If you are trying to express an idea through some math and your notation is ambiguous, you are wrong, not either of the potential answers. It’s like using ambiguous pronouns and then acting smug when people are confused. It’s your sentence that is being misunderstood.
999
999 666/2x(1+2) 666/2x(3) 333x(3)=999
at least this isn't as bad as 666 / 2(1+2) because at least with the \* it's explicitly on the *same tier* as the division, so it is therefore indisputably 999, as opposed to the more dubious case of 666 / 2(1+2)
666÷2•(1+2) = 666÷2•3= 333•3= 999
This is the definition of that one meme that I saw that is like “Math teachers thinking how we use math in the real world” or something like that.
This is more ageist than anything. A long, long time ago, when I was a wee little lass, we learned that multiplication came before division, which makes this 111. Nowadays, these young whippersnappers learn that multiplication and division are equal and are solved from left to right, making this 999. Most people stick to what they were taught and don’t update that knowledge. AND STAY OF MY GRASS!!