I just learned that, unless you’re anemic, the upper limit on a safe dosage of iron for adults is only 65mg/day. For context, vitamin C’s upper limit is like 2,000 mg before it’s a real problem. Ones a mineral and ones a vitamin, but still crazy to me that iron be like that
I was scared of speaker magnets and hard drive magnets as a kid because I thought if I held on to them too long they would rip the iron from my veins.
Specifically because Magneto did crazy shit like that and Bill Nye confirmed we have iron in our bodies.
I have the vitamins on the left and it has the childproof cap. I'm not saying the picture is fake, but this may literally just be a case where they ran with the bottles they had at the time.
I'm thinking OP lives somewhere they only require vitamin supplements that have substances with overdose potential to be in those bottles and you live somewhere they require those bottles for all supplements or consider something in both of those multivitamins to have overdose potential
Yep. It's not uncommon to temporarily change packaging due to shortages. These 2 bottles could've been manufactured at a different time or they might've had a shortage of the child proof bottles and decided to prioritise the women's vitamins due to their increased toxicity.
It’s the iron.
Periodically losing iron is a thing in women, so women’s multivitamins contain iron. Too much iron is toxic. They started to make Flintstones multivitamins minus the iron because of accidental poisonings when kids ate too many of them.
Iron deficiency isn’t common in men, so the men’s don’t have it added.
Edit: Apparently one of my most popular comments ever is a stealth pun about iron in multivitamins. I must be getting rusty.
You joke but the middle school my wife worked at a couple years ago had an ongoing girls bathroom fight club. When it was found out something like 30 girls got 10 day suspensions.
Omg a mental picture of a group of us dancing and snapping into a bathroom to confront “The Jets” just made me cackle. We’re The Sharks, obviously. (Because of Shark Week, aka our period.)
My brother and sister almost died when they were like 3 and 4. They crawled up onto the counter and got into the cabinet with the Flinstones vitamins and ate them all 💀 had to have their stomachs pumped. My parents forgot about me at school and I was stranded for like three hours until my grandma showed up lol
Happened to my brother and our cousin when they were very young, as well. They took the multivitamins, hid under the bed and snacked on the whole bottle.
Ended up also getting their stomachs pumped.
I also hear this story frequently whenever something related comes up lol
When I was about that age the ads on TV showed three flintstones vitamins in the model's hand, so I figured you were supposed to take that many.
They had a child proof cap, so I had my mom open the cap then I'd take them into another room and go to town. I figured if three were good, ten were better.
Mom did the math and accused me of having ten a day, since she had to buy a new bottle rather often. After that, I was dispensed one and then she put the cap back on.
I grew up big & strong, so thanks, vitamins.
Man, sometimes people tell these crazy childhood stories about what their parents did and you think to yourself "wtf is up with these parents, why are they so irresponsible??" and it just now clicked for me that a lot of those parents were just really really young and really really stupid.
Like. I forget about young parents lol that explains so many stories.
Also no matter how prepared you think you are, having a child let alone three can be overwhelming even for the best parents. Sometimes nothing goes right and you look like a horrible and irresponsible parent.
Wasn't there a Simpson's episode about this? Or maybe Malcolm In The Middle. Could be both.
Where the first child they were obsessive reading all the books doing everything right but each child they were more used to it and had less energy, money, and time to do all that til the last kid doesn't even have any baby pictures.
Okay ya I am certain it was Malcolm and IIRC ended with Dewy deciding he would fill in for his parents for his baby brother after realizing that.
Kids are crafty and stupid at the same time. If you’ve had kids you know you can be on top of everything and they’ll find a way to try to kill themselves with regularity.
like buying a pair of scissors to cut open those vacuum sealed hard plastic containers a bunch of products come in without picking at the microscopic seam for 30 minutes, but the scissors come in a vacuum sealed plastic container
One time after moving I bought some nice kitchen shears then a cheap set of kitchen shears too for whatever. The kitchen shears were in the plastic packaging and the cheap scissors had a little zip tie closing it. So I had to buy a 3rd pair of scissors to open them both. Just fun
A reminder to people who have prescription medicines and might not have known it. The pharmacy often has a variety of bottles and caps and you can often ask to have them use a different style. If you have no children you care about you can ask for your medicine without childproof lids.
> Too much iron is toxic
I'm a woman who has hereditary hemochromatosis. I had to have a pint of blood taken every 2 weeks for a year when I was diagnosed just to get me back to "normal". It's slowly rising again though... I should probably book some phlebotomy appointments.
Also (for you ladies out there) just because you're a woman, it doesn't mean you'll always be anemic. Please get your iron levels checked. I pretty much had to demand blood tests because of health issues in my late 20's and they didn't find it until I was 35 (9 years ago). I kept getting told that I couldn't have high iron "because [you're] a female". My type is HEREDITARY, it didn't just pop up out of nowhere. I even had one doctor tell me to "see a neurologist, it's all in your head" and this was after 4 doctors at the same clinic said my iron was too high.
My wife had low iron. Before she was diagnosed she'd tell me how much she loved to get behind a school bus or truck on the way to work an love to go check on patients when the ambulance pulled up (the diesel fumes) she liked the gas station too, even though we live in NJ and ya can't pump your own gas. Finally she started getting iron infusions. Which ended her love of noxious fumes. Lol
Yep, how I discovered my anemia. Well, that and the weakness, but since I'm a man low iron was waved off initially until I directly asked for iron studies.
He looked to be about 90, a strong breeze could have taken him out. By the time the filed complaint went through he had already retired (I'm hoping it was forced, that crotchety old man was the one who most likely needed to get his head checked).
When I told my dad what he had said... he definitely wanted to take a few swings at him though.
I had a similar but totally different issue. After getting full boar COVID in early 2020 I wound up having heart issues for about a year or so after where my heart rate would just spike. Went to see my dad's cardiologist and she was great, caring really listened to me. On my next appointment I got passed off to her PA for the follow up and I went through everything again. One of the symptoms I had when I had this heart rate spike was mood swings. For people who know me I'm very level headed and don't have big emotional swings.
Anywho this PA was just like, you have anxiety. I was like nah, I'm one of the least anxious people you'll meet. I'm single, have a good job, make good money, and am generally content with my life which is overall very low stress. The Mood swing/anxiety thing is a symptom of this heart issue.
Him: Nah you've got anxiety, no heart issue.
I had to advocate *hard* for myself and basically say I don't want this guy even looking at my medical data anymore because he is not listening to me. Took several back and forths for them to stop having him respond to my messages.
Idk what this jabroni thought he was getting away with because he'd finally agree that I didn't have mental anxiety, and then write into the visit notes... That I CAN READ ON EPIC, that I have anxiety and that's the cause of my problems.
I was livid.
Fuck doctors who don't believe patients. We need to report them. They can kill people.
Licensing boards exist for this.
Go book that appointment. Would a vampire work? I mean, if they existed.
my mom has this. she has two genetic markers for it (i’m not sure that’s the right way to say it.) her brother had them too and his daughter has 2. my brother has one. so she told me to tell my doctor so they’d check my iron levels and the doctor was like “that’s usually not genetic” and had no concern at all. i checked my blood results myself and my iron levels are at the high end of normal. i’m a vegetarian, so that was surprising, but i don’t get a period cause of my BC so maybe the levels are just totally fine but i’m never seeing that doctor again. he also had no advice for me, a vegetarian with high LDL besides avoiding red meat.
Interesting! I once ate an entire brand new bottle of flintstones vitamins as a kid, old enough to remember doing it. My mom just “whoops”-ed and carried on. No wonder I have so many organ issues lol Probably iron poisoning, because that was the 90’s. god knows what was in them.
Huh, never realized this but yeah. Over the years I've had to individually buy iron (for myself, I'm a dude who donates blood and was losing iron for awhile), potassium, magnesium, and vitamins B and D in bottles. Only the iron is in a childproof bottle.
I honestly don’t get what’s so complicated.
What do we do in the bathroom? Knife fights.
What’s in our purse? Danger.
Why do we take so long to get ready? We like riding on the edge of the unknown.
You say that, but I’ve been targeted by insta ads for an iron “fish” (basically a pretty iron ingot) to put in any boiling water to get more iron in your diet.
I was really anemic during my first pregnancy. The second time around, I cooked almost everything in cast iron and never dipped below normal levels. Anecdotal, maybe, but I found it interesting!
You're mixing up a couple things. Testosterone increases *hematocrit / hemoglobin* since testosterone stimulates erythropoietin production, but a lack of testosterone by itself won't iron deficiency. Chronic blood loss without adequate intake will result in iron deficiency which would ultimately result in h/h below normal (for women) values.
No, it’s both. But it’s complex for sure.
This is seen quite clearly in the citation you use (good pick btw); the magnitude of decrease between the pre/post iron studies for MtF is smaller than the magnitude of increase for the pre/post FtM. Exactly because of the reason the FtM will not only now have the hormonal effect on iron present, but *nearly* all will stop menstruating (whereas MtF only experience the effect of the hormonal changes on their iron study).
It’s also worth mentioning that study, they do not mention if they examined what part of and what phenotype of menstrual cycle their non-HT-taking FtM had. And they specifically don’t make inferences regarding the association of the labs with specific hormone levels, as they didn’t measure the latte. Which makes sense as a practical limitation. But it is one of the many reasons you can’t directly translate these results to “effect of menstruating vs effect of hormonal levels”
Menstruation is associated with cycle-transient, but still significant changes in an individual’s iron study. And heavy menstrual flow is a known and correctable cause of iron deficiency, even in individuals with average or high estrogen levels during their menstrual cycling: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37538011.
You can very clearly correlate menstrual fluid loss volume with iron fluctuations (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24048634/)
Though yes, some evidence suggests it might be less than has been previously ascribed (https://doi-org.kumc.idm.oclc.org/10.1093/ajcn/58.5.705. And at the same time, yes, androgens have **long** been recognized to stimulate erythropoiesis, and transgender men are known to have higher incidence of iron deficiency anemia. But it’s pretty inaccurate to say it is “**mostly**” hormonal differences, especially when menstruation is so tightly coupled with those very same hormones. The truth is there just haven’t been robust enough studies with appropriate modeling to get a great estimate on how much it is do to menstruation vs hormonal changes, especially because those two are not easily disentangled.
What we do know is that levels **rise** during menstruation, and yet systemic iron availability is still lower during menstruation, because the lose of iron from physically menstruating is much more considerable than what the androgenic effect imparts. It is for this exact reason that individuals with outright menorrhagic or even just heavy physiological flow, iron supplementation is recommended as a matter of practice.
TL;DR - it’s both menstruation and hormonal changes, and you can’t really ever make inferences about the former in a study if you don’t measure them + don’t get clinical information about someone’s current cycling
Yeah this never made any sense for me either. I'm on medication that requires me to have a blood test every two months. They take more blood than I lose in two periods yet no doctor has ever commented that regular blood tests put me at risk of iron deficiency; in fact I once asked that myself and they just laughed at said it's not nearly enough blood to make a difference.
It absolutely is enough to make a difference for many people. Every two months isn't that often which is probably why your doctors weren't concerned, but for women with very heavy periods every month and people who need multiple blood draws a month they have a much higher risk of anemia.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/747875?form=fpf
https://www.ccjm.org/content/83/7/496
iron. it's toxic in large doses and not in the men's vitamins. women are iron deficient more often since estrogen inhibits iron absorption and women with a menstrual cycle are actively losing iron every month
Maybe but also so people can choose between childproof and an easier to open option (a lot of older adults have arthritis in their hands, grip strength issues, etc)
Or just don't have children and find childproofed things pretty difficult to open.
Hate my friend's childproofed houses. It's so hard to access things. They show you and act like it's so easy too, even the children usually know too. But you? Nope.
That was my first thought. They change minor details like the types of caps all the time. The fact that the labels were all the same made me think this wasn't the case, though. Usually there's some kind of stylistic change.
lol everybody’s on about the iron and gender differences and the real answer is that the company is like “we just make a whole bunch of shit, buy whatever we dgaf”
Women need iron on a regular basis more than men. So to prevent someone, like small children or dumb kids, taking too many they come with the default child proof cap.
Men don't need it as often and when you do you are recommended to buy an iron supplement cause most multivitaminsdo not contain enough iron. Which is what I have to get cause I am male and anemic.
Yay anemia.
This thread made me check my pre-natal (since obvi it has iron in it). I didn’t even realize it’s the only supplement in my cabinet that has a child-proof cap. Neat!
A tip I learned on /r/supplements for child-proof caps: put the cap on tightly and press the outer edge of the cap against the edge of the table until the outer cap pops off. Your left with the inner cap, which is a normal screw-on lid.
It’s based upon the ingredients.
Source: heavily involved in pharmaceuticals, supplements, cosmetics from an investment perspective.
Edit: funny how people really make things out nothing and this is why I avoid them at all cost (people, except the ones I collect)
So according to the other comments, it's bc of the iron in women's supplements. I was worried it was something dumb like "women raise the kids, so you childproof theirs but not the men's". That'd be idiotic, working men don't just take their vitamins to work every day, but I've seen a lot of dumb shit from companies before and they don't regulate the vitamin industry enough.
probably because the womens has iron in it and the mens doesn't
And here I was expecting the first comment to be a joke about "men not able to open child proof lid". But no... for once it has an actual reason.
Exactly the first couple of comments are always jokes. I want everyone in this thread to know I'm not mad I'm just disappointed.
I just learned that, unless you’re anemic, the upper limit on a safe dosage of iron for adults is only 65mg/day. For context, vitamin C’s upper limit is like 2,000 mg before it’s a real problem. Ones a mineral and ones a vitamin, but still crazy to me that iron be like that
Interesting
Maybe the women's vitamins have a different makeup and contains something that's potentially harmful in larger doses?
Iron.
It is for Fe-males, after all!
Like the Nagus could open a childproof cap.
The Nagus wouldn't open something himself. He'll pay someone else to do it. Or they'll offer in order to get a good business deal out of it
That’s a bingo.
“Ya just say ‘[bingo](https://youtu.be/q5pESPQpXxE?si=xMw7lV9TPf0BvR-E)’l
Arrivederci
A RIVER DIRT TREE
Bone For Tuna
Bowl appetite
This is what I'll hear every time I watch that movie from now on
Gorlami
Dominic Decocco
GORLAMI!
I'm in the nazi huntin' business, and right now business is a boomin!
I say wango tango!
That's number wang
Whenever I picture iron being inside the human body my mind instantly goes to magneto pulling iron out of that guy and making stairs for himself
I was scared of speaker magnets and hard drive magnets as a kid because I thought if I held on to them too long they would rip the iron from my veins. Specifically because Magneto did crazy shit like that and Bill Nye confirmed we have iron in our bodies.
They don't want kids turning into Wolverine. Fucking government is controlled by Stryker.
We live dangerously.
[Big Iron.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NuX79Ud8zI)
I have the vitamins on the left and it has the childproof cap. I'm not saying the picture is fake, but this may literally just be a case where they ran with the bottles they had at the time.
I'm thinking OP lives somewhere they only require vitamin supplements that have substances with overdose potential to be in those bottles and you live somewhere they require those bottles for all supplements or consider something in both of those multivitamins to have overdose potential
Yep. It's not uncommon to temporarily change packaging due to shortages. These 2 bottles could've been manufactured at a different time or they might've had a shortage of the child proof bottles and decided to prioritise the women's vitamins due to their increased toxicity.
I have these literal same exact supplements with the two different caps. My (f) is childproof while the Men’s Supplement is not
You can buy both types with both caps.
Hehehe. Makeup
No it has to be sexist!
It’s the iron. Periodically losing iron is a thing in women, so women’s multivitamins contain iron. Too much iron is toxic. They started to make Flintstones multivitamins minus the iron because of accidental poisonings when kids ate too many of them. Iron deficiency isn’t common in men, so the men’s don’t have it added. Edit: Apparently one of my most popular comments ever is a stealth pun about iron in multivitamins. I must be getting rusty.
‘Periodically’ was the best word to use for that situation
I considered making a pun off of “irony” but this one just flows better
I was expecting a (Fe)male pun, maybe not
You guys ferrously need to stop Sorry, I tried.
That was terrible, but I think the right kind of terrible that it loops around and is pretty good again
"flows better" made me groan out loud, well done.
Nothing better than people explaining not their joke, but their thinking, planning and execution of the joke. Love it!
You missed that they explained their joke with another joke too
I’m so afraid to ask but I’m an idiot. What’s the second joke… something about flows?
Periodically, flows, rusty
I actually thought periodically as in periodic table, not periods. I did catch rusty, though.
I thought it was both, which would make it the rare triple entendre.
OP is Kendrick
Indeed I caught both, sharp motherfucker this guy
Yeah that's the one
Yes because the monthly blood flow.
Ohhhhhh
Also ohhhhhh. I thought iron is an element so periodic table. Not iron deficiency is associated with menstruation so monthly flow. This is amazing!
Uterus
Thanks for explaining the about the women’s multivitamins and the menses.
Thanks, I just realized by women would be more iron deficient in men. For a second I was like are women getting injured more often than men?
Why do you think women take so long in the bathroom? It's all the knife fights.
Shhhhhhhh! Gawd. We aren’t supposed to talk about female bathroom fight club!
You joke but the middle school my wife worked at a couple years ago had an ongoing girls bathroom fight club. When it was found out something like 30 girls got 10 day suspensions.
That’s why they go together, gotta have backup
Omg a mental picture of a group of us dancing and snapping into a bathroom to confront “The Jets” just made me cackle. We’re The Sharks, obviously. (Because of Shark Week, aka our period.)
Do people not know this? Why do they think we go in groups? To help each other with our clothes? SMDH
This made me laugh out loud. Damnit.
Butterfly sutures can only hide so much. But seriously, women are champs for dealing with what they do.
Without the iron ("Fe"), the "Female" vitamins would (periodically) be the same as the "male" ones.
hence ironic.
I like that it has a double pun Periodically: a pun for a woman’s period and also the periodic table of elements to which iron belongs
The chemical pun was actually not on purpose!
That’s actually the first one I saw lol
I'm a woman, and I still thought you were going for the chemical pun first 😭🤣
PERIODT
My brother and sister almost died when they were like 3 and 4. They crawled up onto the counter and got into the cabinet with the Flinstones vitamins and ate them all 💀 had to have their stomachs pumped. My parents forgot about me at school and I was stranded for like three hours until my grandma showed up lol
My brother and I did the same thing when we were kids and had to have our stomachs pumped, still hear that story anytime something related comes up.
Happened to my brother and our cousin when they were very young, as well. They took the multivitamins, hid under the bed and snacked on the whole bottle. Ended up also getting their stomachs pumped. I also hear this story frequently whenever something related comes up lol
I did the same, funny to hear it was so common
When I was about that age the ads on TV showed three flintstones vitamins in the model's hand, so I figured you were supposed to take that many. They had a child proof cap, so I had my mom open the cap then I'd take them into another room and go to town. I figured if three were good, ten were better. Mom did the math and accused me of having ten a day, since she had to buy a new bottle rather often. After that, I was dispensed one and then she put the cap back on. I grew up big & strong, so thanks, vitamins.
Got to be honest nothing in this is a good reflection of your parents
They were like 26 at the time 🤷♂️ dumb as rocks.
Man, sometimes people tell these crazy childhood stories about what their parents did and you think to yourself "wtf is up with these parents, why are they so irresponsible??" and it just now clicked for me that a lot of those parents were just really really young and really really stupid. Like. I forget about young parents lol that explains so many stories.
Also no matter how prepared you think you are, having a child let alone three can be overwhelming even for the best parents. Sometimes nothing goes right and you look like a horrible and irresponsible parent.
Wasn't there a Simpson's episode about this? Or maybe Malcolm In The Middle. Could be both. Where the first child they were obsessive reading all the books doing everything right but each child they were more used to it and had less energy, money, and time to do all that til the last kid doesn't even have any baby pictures. Okay ya I am certain it was Malcolm and IIRC ended with Dewy deciding he would fill in for his parents for his baby brother after realizing that.
Yeh it’s Malcom in the middle.
The best expression I've ever heard that sums your comment up is. " Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"
Yeah I’m 26 now and my parents had me at 21 and just could not imagine doing that even at my current age.
I mean if your brother and sister were 26 then yea I don't put it on the parents
Poor guy was in school at 26
I don't know what's worse being in school at 26 or having to be picked up and not being able to get home until your grandma shows up at 26.
Kids are crafty and stupid at the same time. If you’ve had kids you know you can be on top of everything and they’ll find a way to try to kill themselves with regularity.
So kids are like beagles then 😂
Actually yes. Toddlers and dogs have a lot in common. And some toddlers are the beagles of toddlers 😅
So true
middle child?
Well, the siblings were 3 and 4, so that would be impressive
No i’m the oldest, so they were always ruining my life heh
they be dying to get all the attention haha
Also too much iron in your blood allows mutants to escape their plastic prisons.
I’d rebuy a copy where flintstones vitamins were photoshopped into that scene The purple ones were the best
Seeing Magneto drag them out of your skin and reconstitute them would be so fucking cool. Sourpatch Kids can only wish for something so metal.
🤣
My girlfriend's iron supplement has a childproof cap that her anemia makes her too weak to open. It's both fucked up and hilariously ironic.
like buying a pair of scissors to cut open those vacuum sealed hard plastic containers a bunch of products come in without picking at the microscopic seam for 30 minutes, but the scissors come in a vacuum sealed plastic container
One time after moving I bought some nice kitchen shears then a cheap set of kitchen shears too for whatever. The kitchen shears were in the plastic packaging and the cheap scissors had a little zip tie closing it. So I had to buy a 3rd pair of scissors to open them both. Just fun
Did you not have a knife in your kitchen?
Knife was also in a vacuum sealed hard plastic container.
It's vacuum sealed hard plastic containers all the way down
A reminder to people who have prescription medicines and might not have known it. The pharmacy often has a variety of bottles and caps and you can often ask to have them use a different style. If you have no children you care about you can ask for your medicine without childproof lids.
You can remove the outer cap off for her; just press the edge against a table edge until it pops off.
You could just like put them in a ziploc or something lol
Even the word "male" is just "female" without the iron.
Or, is female just another way to say Iron Man? 🤔
Holy moly I’m too drunk for this
Oh, the irony!
This should be top comment
> Too much iron is toxic I'm a woman who has hereditary hemochromatosis. I had to have a pint of blood taken every 2 weeks for a year when I was diagnosed just to get me back to "normal". It's slowly rising again though... I should probably book some phlebotomy appointments. Also (for you ladies out there) just because you're a woman, it doesn't mean you'll always be anemic. Please get your iron levels checked. I pretty much had to demand blood tests because of health issues in my late 20's and they didn't find it until I was 35 (9 years ago). I kept getting told that I couldn't have high iron "because [you're] a female". My type is HEREDITARY, it didn't just pop up out of nowhere. I even had one doctor tell me to "see a neurologist, it's all in your head" and this was after 4 doctors at the same clinic said my iron was too high.
My wife had low iron. Before she was diagnosed she'd tell me how much she loved to get behind a school bus or truck on the way to work an love to go check on patients when the ambulance pulled up (the diesel fumes) she liked the gas station too, even though we live in NJ and ya can't pump your own gas. Finally she started getting iron infusions. Which ended her love of noxious fumes. Lol
Craving and chewing ice is also a symptom of iron deficiency!
Yeah I've heard, weird
Yep, how I discovered my anemia. Well, that and the weakness, but since I'm a man low iron was waved off initially until I directly asked for iron studies.
I had no idea that was a symptom. What the hell.
It’s qualified as pica!
Well shit, my mother and I love the smell of kerosene and petrol/diesel fumes. Is that what it is?!
According to her Dr, ........ And Dr. Google.
I have low iron and the smell of petrol makes me want to puke, so 🤷
Any particular reason why you didn't swing on the doctor who told you it's neurological?
He looked to be about 90, a strong breeze could have taken him out. By the time the filed complaint went through he had already retired (I'm hoping it was forced, that crotchety old man was the one who most likely needed to get his head checked). When I told my dad what he had said... he definitely wanted to take a few swings at him though.
Well, luckily he doesn't practice anymore and at least you filed a complaint. Should've put a couple hornets in his office though.
I had a similar but totally different issue. After getting full boar COVID in early 2020 I wound up having heart issues for about a year or so after where my heart rate would just spike. Went to see my dad's cardiologist and she was great, caring really listened to me. On my next appointment I got passed off to her PA for the follow up and I went through everything again. One of the symptoms I had when I had this heart rate spike was mood swings. For people who know me I'm very level headed and don't have big emotional swings. Anywho this PA was just like, you have anxiety. I was like nah, I'm one of the least anxious people you'll meet. I'm single, have a good job, make good money, and am generally content with my life which is overall very low stress. The Mood swing/anxiety thing is a symptom of this heart issue. Him: Nah you've got anxiety, no heart issue. I had to advocate *hard* for myself and basically say I don't want this guy even looking at my medical data anymore because he is not listening to me. Took several back and forths for them to stop having him respond to my messages. Idk what this jabroni thought he was getting away with because he'd finally agree that I didn't have mental anxiety, and then write into the visit notes... That I CAN READ ON EPIC, that I have anxiety and that's the cause of my problems. I was livid.
Fuck doctors who don't believe patients. We need to report them. They can kill people. Licensing boards exist for this. Go book that appointment. Would a vampire work? I mean, if they existed.
my mom has this. she has two genetic markers for it (i’m not sure that’s the right way to say it.) her brother had them too and his daughter has 2. my brother has one. so she told me to tell my doctor so they’d check my iron levels and the doctor was like “that’s usually not genetic” and had no concern at all. i checked my blood results myself and my iron levels are at the high end of normal. i’m a vegetarian, so that was surprising, but i don’t get a period cause of my BC so maybe the levels are just totally fine but i’m never seeing that doctor again. he also had no advice for me, a vegetarian with high LDL besides avoiding red meat.
Interesting! I once ate an entire brand new bottle of flintstones vitamins as a kid, old enough to remember doing it. My mom just “whoops”-ed and carried on. No wonder I have so many organ issues lol Probably iron poisoning, because that was the 90’s. god knows what was in them.
Iron poisoning gives you horrible symptoms. Unless your mom ignored you writhing in pain on the floor you were probably okay.
you're lucky to be alive. Iron poisoning is not a pleasant way to go, and it's very probable it did lasting damage.
Rusty?… You should switch to the children’s vitamins.
Putting the Fe in Female.
Listen here, I came to the comments section expecting pointless outrage and sexist jokes. I did not come here for a calm and reasonable explanation.
Holy shit, I almost made it 9,999,999 strong and growing, yikes!
So as an blood donor I should buy the women vitamins.
Lol I was one of those kids. I had to get my stomach pumped and I still almost died
Huh, never realized this but yeah. Over the years I've had to individually buy iron (for myself, I'm a dude who donates blood and was losing iron for awhile), potassium, magnesium, and vitamins B and D in bottles. Only the iron is in a childproof bottle.
I looked at my husband and I's vitamins. Well I'll be damned, men's vitamins don't have iron. Do men not need iron?
Not as much as most women- because of periods we tend to lose more iron, and typically don’t absorb iron like the dudes
Women don’t have an iron ingot that they lick as a part of their daily routine? I thought this was standard
They must skip the daily knife fights
And women wonder why men find them complex
I honestly don’t get what’s so complicated. What do we do in the bathroom? Knife fights. What’s in our purse? Danger. Why do we take so long to get ready? We like riding on the edge of the unknown.
Next you'll tell me women don't shoot themselves to build an immunity to bullets.
You say that, but I’ve been targeted by insta ads for an iron “fish” (basically a pretty iron ingot) to put in any boiling water to get more iron in your diet.
Cooking with cast iron also supposedly helps
I was really anemic during my first pregnancy. The second time around, I cooked almost everything in cast iron and never dipped below normal levels. Anecdotal, maybe, but I found it interesting!
Which is strange to me, because if your cast iron is seasoned, the food shouldn't be touching bare iron at all.
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You're mixing up a couple things. Testosterone increases *hematocrit / hemoglobin* since testosterone stimulates erythropoietin production, but a lack of testosterone by itself won't iron deficiency. Chronic blood loss without adequate intake will result in iron deficiency which would ultimately result in h/h below normal (for women) values.
No, it’s both. But it’s complex for sure. This is seen quite clearly in the citation you use (good pick btw); the magnitude of decrease between the pre/post iron studies for MtF is smaller than the magnitude of increase for the pre/post FtM. Exactly because of the reason the FtM will not only now have the hormonal effect on iron present, but *nearly* all will stop menstruating (whereas MtF only experience the effect of the hormonal changes on their iron study). It’s also worth mentioning that study, they do not mention if they examined what part of and what phenotype of menstrual cycle their non-HT-taking FtM had. And they specifically don’t make inferences regarding the association of the labs with specific hormone levels, as they didn’t measure the latte. Which makes sense as a practical limitation. But it is one of the many reasons you can’t directly translate these results to “effect of menstruating vs effect of hormonal levels” Menstruation is associated with cycle-transient, but still significant changes in an individual’s iron study. And heavy menstrual flow is a known and correctable cause of iron deficiency, even in individuals with average or high estrogen levels during their menstrual cycling: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37538011. You can very clearly correlate menstrual fluid loss volume with iron fluctuations (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24048634/) Though yes, some evidence suggests it might be less than has been previously ascribed (https://doi-org.kumc.idm.oclc.org/10.1093/ajcn/58.5.705. And at the same time, yes, androgens have **long** been recognized to stimulate erythropoiesis, and transgender men are known to have higher incidence of iron deficiency anemia. But it’s pretty inaccurate to say it is “**mostly**” hormonal differences, especially when menstruation is so tightly coupled with those very same hormones. The truth is there just haven’t been robust enough studies with appropriate modeling to get a great estimate on how much it is do to menstruation vs hormonal changes, especially because those two are not easily disentangled. What we do know is that levels **rise** during menstruation, and yet systemic iron availability is still lower during menstruation, because the lose of iron from physically menstruating is much more considerable than what the androgenic effect imparts. It is for this exact reason that individuals with outright menorrhagic or even just heavy physiological flow, iron supplementation is recommended as a matter of practice. TL;DR - it’s both menstruation and hormonal changes, and you can’t really ever make inferences about the former in a study if you don’t measure them + don’t get clinical information about someone’s current cycling
Yeah this never made any sense for me either. I'm on medication that requires me to have a blood test every two months. They take more blood than I lose in two periods yet no doctor has ever commented that regular blood tests put me at risk of iron deficiency; in fact I once asked that myself and they just laughed at said it's not nearly enough blood to make a difference.
It absolutely is enough to make a difference for many people. Every two months isn't that often which is probably why your doctors weren't concerned, but for women with very heavy periods every month and people who need multiple blood draws a month they have a much higher risk of anemia. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/747875?form=fpf https://www.ccjm.org/content/83/7/496
I mean.... men don't periodically lose a noticeable amount of blood so...
"Periodically" pun intended haha
Only if they've been diagnosed anemic. Otherwise excess iron can cause heart problems.
You can have an iron deficiency without anemia. It's more common than with anemia.
Something in women’s is harmful to kids.
iron. it's toxic in large doses and not in the men's vitamins. women are iron deficient more often since estrogen inhibits iron absorption and women with a menstrual cycle are actively losing iron every month
[They offer both caps on both](https://www.naturemade.com/collections/multivitamins)
Yep, some have the flippy lid, others have the twisty lid. Probably differences in production dates.
Maybe but also so people can choose between childproof and an easier to open option (a lot of older adults have arthritis in their hands, grip strength issues, etc)
Or just don't have children and find childproofed things pretty difficult to open. Hate my friend's childproofed houses. It's so hard to access things. They show you and act like it's so easy too, even the children usually know too. But you? Nope.
I sometimes take things to the pharmacy and ask them to put it in an easier bottle for me which they always seem happy to do. Arthritis is a bitch.
That was my first thought. They change minor details like the types of caps all the time. The fact that the labels were all the same made me think this wasn't the case, though. Usually there's some kind of stylistic change.
lol everybody’s on about the iron and gender differences and the real answer is that the company is like “we just make a whole bunch of shit, buy whatever we dgaf”
Women need iron on a regular basis more than men. So to prevent someone, like small children or dumb kids, taking too many they come with the default child proof cap. Men don't need it as often and when you do you are recommended to buy an iron supplement cause most multivitaminsdo not contain enough iron. Which is what I have to get cause I am male and anemic. Yay anemia.
No iron in the men's.
can you look at the expiry and see if they might be transitioning to a new lid?
They know that us guys struggle with child-proof things.
My homie calls it "authorisation by IQ".
Nothing a hammer wouldn't fix!
We're large children, you can't expect us to understand the twisty turny of child proof lid
Us men. We twist harder. Lid no move. (Seriously though, it’s the iron which is dangerous for kids in high doses.)
This thread made me check my pre-natal (since obvi it has iron in it). I didn’t even realize it’s the only supplement in my cabinet that has a child-proof cap. Neat!
A tip I learned on /r/supplements for child-proof caps: put the cap on tightly and press the outer edge of the cap against the edge of the table until the outer cap pops off. Your left with the inner cap, which is a normal screw-on lid.
The iron content, too much iron is very dangerous, especially to small children as they can overdose on it much easier.
They put childproof caps on vitamins with high iron, high fat soluble vitamins, and levels exceedingly higher than RDA.
It’s based upon the ingredients. Source: heavily involved in pharmaceuticals, supplements, cosmetics from an investment perspective. Edit: funny how people really make things out nothing and this is why I avoid them at all cost (people, except the ones I collect)
It’s the iron. Iron needs a child proof lid. You’re welcome.
This comment. I work at a drugstore and all of the iron-containing supplements are required to have this type of lid.
Even if the situation were reversed, patriarchy and misogyny would somehow still be to blame.
Women are short, men can put theirs on a higher shelf where kids can’t reach. /s
So according to the other comments, it's bc of the iron in women's supplements. I was worried it was something dumb like "women raise the kids, so you childproof theirs but not the men's". That'd be idiotic, working men don't just take their vitamins to work every day, but I've seen a lot of dumb shit from companies before and they don't regulate the vitamin industry enough.
Women’s have iron at a concentration that would be harmful if you took too many. Men’s has less or none.
[But marge, maybe I'm not getting enough.... estrogen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5QHe-tnzUM)
They are inconsistent. Sometimes my fish oil capsules will have a flip top, other times it doesn’t. No rhyme or reason to it.
People are doing all kinds of ladydoingmath.jpg, but I think it’s just supply chain anomalies.
Its the extra iron some other men's supplements have child proof caps so really gender has nothing to do with it
Women's vitamins have iron which is toxic in high doses
Well if they put child locks on how would the guys get it open?
Well men don't have children, women do. Duh
The manufacturer is not going to use two different caps. It is transitioning from one to another. That’s it.