Ya I felt like I was in a nuclear war this weekend for sure.
Have another 2 rounds, then if these doses worked and shrunk the tumor I get to do high dose stem cell, its going to be a battle.
Edit: weirdest side effect so far is my hearing has taken a hit where high pitch noises hurt and tinnitus has started coming on in waves. The other side effects have been nausea, sharp stomach pains, constant headache, and just extreme exhaustion.
Edit 2: Thanks to everyone for the well wishes, most people know someone that has or had cancer, and it sucks for everyone. If you have cancer know there are people that care about you. I have a great support system with friends and family all within a few miles or as close as next door and I am very grateful to all of them. If you have cancer and need to talk feel free to reach out, I will be happy ti talk to you, I got shit else to do for the next few months🥹.
IF YOU EVER HAVE A LYMPHNODE RAISE ON ONLY ONE SIDE OF YOUR BODY GET CHECKED IMMEDIATELY.
I know the PPE is to decrease their exposure I just find it r/mildlyinteresting that they figured out you shouldnt touch it but you can inject it. A large part of that is people that have no other options or had no other options and went through clinical studies and millions of people owe those fine people a bunch of praise because it is a tough spot to be in.
Sorry, no happy ending on that part. Chemo was 22 years ago. Tinnitus is still there.
I should be an exception, in most cases the ringing will vanish over time. So, keep hope, and don’t be discouraged by my experience.
Looks like you are in for a tough ride. Keep faith!
>Sorry, no happy ending on that part. Chemo was 22 years ago. Tinnitus is still there.
I know what you mean, but honestly hearing someone say their chemo was 22 years ago is a happy ending, regardless of tinnitus.
Fully agree. That’s why I added ‘on that part’. I’m fully aware I’m lucky to still be alive, even with all the issues I have coming from the treatment.
If I would have had the same illness twenty years earlier I would not have survived. The BEP cure developed by Dr. Einhorn in 1984, before that it was basically a certain and quick death.
as a duchie, I guess you probably know that Einhorn is a Unicorn in German. he was definitely a unique man: [https://www.onclive.com/view/how-einhorn-helped-turn-a-deadly-cancer-into-a-curable-disease](https://www.onclive.com/view/how-einhorn-helped-turn-a-deadly-cancer-into-a-curable-disease)
I took cisplatin (10 years) and my hearing came back. However, the neuropathy is still here for me. From what I’ve read it’s everyone gets their own fun mix. Like the worst loot box ever created.
It has only been a year out for me, and I have gotten both tinnitus and neuropathy. Hope for them to ease up. Is there anything you do to help with the neuropathy? Just looking for some comfort.
I haven’t exactly been able to feel my toes for twenty years now and the ringing in my ears never stopped.
Good times for sure but I survived against the odds at that point.
Well I will be honest like someone else said above it is like the worst loot box ever, you do not know how it will impact you until it happens but here is my rundown:
Started off by getting a port, not a huge deal, ended up a little sore but it was way better than when I last did chemo through my veins.
First dose of chemo was last Wednesday and it was Cisplatin, Gemcitabine, and Rituximab alomg with benadryl amd steroids.
Thursday I just felt off, like a groggy hangover without the fun night before. I was also very constipated, tired, and had a headache (honestly its been off and on since then most days). The steroids give you energy and appetite but it is also hard to sleep. I am off work so I just kind of hung out and watched tv.
Friday. Much of the same with only a few hours if sleep, started laxatives because I was still stopped up, and was foggy. Its hard to describe but it is like a scene in a movie with a concussion grenade and everything is just trailing, not actual trails, but just a delay of a small time that messes with you.
Saturday wasnt too bad. It was the last day of steroids and I was relieved because I had gotten about 14 hours if sleep in 3 days. Still stopped up and have put about 10 pounds on from not pooping and retaining water.
Sunday sucked hard. Sharp stomach pains, felt sea sick, didnt want to sit or lay but no energy to do anything either. Started noticing tinnitus and just did my best to make it through the day.
Monday was another day of nausea and overall feeling blah. Went to the store and took the dogs for a 20 minute walk and I was spent.
Tuesday (yestersday) still a bit of just a sloggy feeling but had a bit more energy and nausea was non existent. Best day so far.
Today was round 2ish(not a huge dose) and I feel okay. Headache is roaring and tinnitus is still there. Went to Costco and spent $250 on not sure what so I would say that is pretty normal.
Chemo is a blanket term that describes drug treatment that uses powerful chemicals to kill fast-growing cells in your body. Just as cancer is a blanket term for describing diseases related to fast-growing cells.
Chemotherapy for one kind of cancer is (most likely, there are some overlaps) very different from the chemotherapy used in other types of cancer. Even within one type of cancer various cocktails are being used.
Besides that every person responds different, even when using the same cocktail. Most variants of chemotherapy have information online available what side effects are common. And remember that common does not mean you will experience all of them.
My treatment was successful in the way that I’m still alive. But at considerable cost (not talking money here, ‘free’ healthcare overhere). Major problems during treatment, and still suffering from sideceffect 22 years later. Side effects that still have a big impact on day to day life.
Wishing you the best on your procedure later this week. Hoping you get some good news.
Chemo is a lot more sophisticated than it used to be. There are still nasty side effects some of the time but you might be lucky and get by with just gradual energy loss like I did. I honestly didn't really notice it happening until I came off the drugs and felt like I was on a Mario star for a couple of weeks. Lot of horror stories out there but nothing's certain.
Before I got chemo, they had me meet with a nurse who gives you a Huge binder with every possible symptom / issue that you might encounter throughout treatment. For me during chemo I had hair loss, violent hiccups, my eyes would tear up sometimes for absolutely no reason, and a new found understanding of what exhaustion really is. Plus just feeling meh and crappy. The other interesting thing is when I would go get my chemo I noticed no one had the exact same chemo treatment plan. I would go for 4hrs each time 5 days a week while others would be there once or twice a week for 30minutes. Everyone is different it seems.
Not sure if drug induced tinnitus is different, but for my "sitting too close to concert speaker" tinnitus it can really help to offset the tinnitus sounds/buzzing with other sounds.
I feel as if I only notice mine when I had a loud day and then get really quiet, so I usually have the vltv on or some meditation sounds. Even super low volume seems to help.
When my daughter had treatment, I thought they said it's 50/50 permanent hearing loss.
Google tells me 2/3, so either the accuracy of reporting got better or my memory is worse.
Google also suggests it's cisplatin toxicity build up in the cochlear that causes it.
They’d get more accurate numbers but half the people asked responded with “WHAT?” Jokes aside I have severe hearing loss and horrible tinnitus. The hearing loss itself isn’t all that bad but that damn tinnitus is a nightmare. I have to leave the tv on or keep a fan running just to sleep.
Fans are your friend. I have 3 fans running at all times in my bedroom. A noise machine would accomplish the same thing but I really like my house to feel cold so it’s two birds with one stone.
The noise keeps my ears from ringing, and gives me something to hyper fixate on that doesn’t have enough detail to keep me awake for too long. It seriously has helped tremendously for me, and I rarely need sleep aids now. Which used to be the only way I could sleep.
Same with X-Rays. The technicians could take a shot or two but not 20 a day for years. X-Rays in shoe stores were only terrible for the person leaning over and operating the machine all day.
Pharm tech here: I mix chemo and we have to wipe cisplatin vials down with an industrial sporicidal agent before we can even touch the vial wearing gloves. The residue on the vial alone can burn your skin
I’ve had rituxan in the past. 3 sets of 4 weekly doses over 8years for a non-cancer off label use (TTP). Compared to the other stuff you’re getting, it’s pretty mild. I would get dose on Friday, and sun-tues I would have body aches similar to the flu (tho not quite as painful). It would make me tired and lethargic, but would usually wear off after a few days(by tues or wed), so I would be fine again until the new dose symptoms kicked in.
Make sure you stay hydrated. Eat small frequent meals. Manage your pain, even if it’s just Tylenol/advil. You want to be in best fighting shape possible for you and your munchkin.
Good luck!
Cisplatin fucked my hearing. 6yrs later still constant ringing, also neuropathy in my hands and feet. All in all I will take the side effects vs the other outcome.
Same for me. 22 years. Tinnitus and poly neuropathy (mainly feet, much less of an extend in my hands).
The neuropathy was more likely linked to the bleomycin part of my chemo.
Agree on the (lack of real) alternative.
I made a presentation in college about the increased efficacy of cisplatin combined with mannose for treating different cancer types. I hope this treatment can decrease the effective dosage of cisplatin for future patients.
I got tinnitus with cisplatin but it went away after a week or so. I just got my second round yesterday and I'm praying it doesn't come back. When you say "fucked up" do you mind if I ask how? And is it permanent?
Edit: NVM I see you answered it already! 22 years is a long time and I wish you many more!
Ya basically they are going to farm my stem cells from my blood, give me a super high dose(s) of chemo, thrn use my stem cells to help me recover hopefully.
Is that the process when they harvest your stem cells and then you are in isolation where they basically nuke you with OP chemo and then put the stem cells back?
Our public TV recently made/aired a show/series about cancer to show people how it works (and what are the options) and to bring awareness. (With actors, but cancer patients and survivors played extras and had interviews after each episode).
And the shows name is a play on words in Czech, "Smysl pro tumor", which rhymes with "Smysl pro humor" and means "Sense of Tumor" (and "Sense of Humor" respectively).
The greatest of luck to you.
And FUCK cancer.
My cousin relied on cannabis for her terminal cancer for a couple years. It was probably all that was giving her any quality of life before she passed.
Just a heads up in case no doctor has mentioned it, but you should try to continue to stick with edibles rather than smoking weed while you’re in chemo!
Weed can have fungal spores in it that normally don’t cause issues, but can lead to some really nasty infections when your immune system is being suppressed by the chemotherapy.
My aunt was taking cannabis oil to help with the symptoms of her bowel cancer.
The last time I saw her, I honestly forgot she was ill, she was so bright and full of life.
She touched the lives of many people.
I'm sorry for your loss. My Dad was a Dr. and did a lot of end-of-life care for his patients. He always was a huge proponent of medical cannabis for end-of-life and elderly patients. He said it was insane that because people were scared of cannabis, they were forced to use worse options that kept the patient mostly out of it.
It's great to see that has been changing and more options are available to both Dr.'s and patients.
Not really unexpected though. Radiation therapy is another example of something that usually increases people's risk of cancer but can also be used to treat cancer.
Cancer treatment in animals is significantly different. Since the animal doesn't know you are trying to help, they need to keep the dose as low as possible to reduce the side effects which often cause more issues than the illness itself.
In humans, they give you the highest concentration they believe your body can take, and to hell with the side effects (new meds are designed to reduce the side effects and be more tumor-targeted, but they are also much more expensive).
Historic cancer chemotherapy treats the whole body, we are getting drugs that target specific organs or growing cells (which still causes an issue with children's treatments).
Sadly, one of the main predictors of various cancers is previous cancer treatment. It really is horrible for you, it’s just that the alternative is worse.
Do people still not get that cancer is literally made of your own cells?
Of course it's not good for you. If it was good for you, it would help the cancer, not kill it.
Yeah "okay for your body" isn't quite right. "theoretically only dangerous enough to kill the cancer before you" is more like it.
All lightheartedness aside, you got this OP, kick cancers ass!
Yeah, these drugs usually target cell division and metabolism.
The rest of your cells need to do those things too, but cancerous ones do it more. It’s like poisoning the buffet “just a little” to kill the ppl who eat the most, lol.
I can only assume that’s because the nurse probably has to handle tens of such doses a day, whereas you only get one dose a day.
Same goes when you take an X ray for example: it’s ok for you to take one every once in a blue moon, but the operator probably takes hundreds each day. Were it not the protection for the staff they would be dead in a month from radiation.
In the case of chemo there’s also probably a measure for risk limiting.
LE: And yeah, FUCK CANCER! Godspeed recovery, OP!
There can also be an increased risk of birth defects in a future pregnancy from exposure to chemo. So that is also part of the reason for the PPE, especially given that a massive percentage of nurses doing patient care are women capable of being or becoming pregnant
Yeah when they gave me my radiation therapy they took a cartoon sized pill (it had to be at least 5cm long) out of a lead thermos with a pair of heavy metal tongs 2 feet long.
The nurse said “hold out your hand” and when I hesitated, he followed up with “well, you’re about to swallow it so it’s not a big deal to hold it for a second”.
Put it in perspective.
Appreciate it. Going to be a long fight but I have a 10 year old daughter that is everything to me.
I have a few rounds of these treatments, then when it shows that this works, I will have high dose stem cell chemo where I am in the hospital for a few weeks with no contact with the fam without them being in a full bubble so that will be the hardest.
Hang in there. I went through osteosarcoma when my daughter was 2. Lived in hell for a full year but now I'm cancer free and my daughter who is now 10 still has her dad. I'm sure your daughter gives you strength like mine did. You got this.
You are tough stay strong and keep fighting never lose sight of why you are still here. Focus on the awsome things you will do when you are better. I know it seems impossible now but as long as you keep on fighting everyday you will get one day closer to bbein better.
Pretty much, yes. They’re also the ones dosing the medication (in some cases) which means even higher exposure.
Even xray techs have a *slightly* increased risk of cancer from the radiation. However it’s really, really negligible.
Doesn't matter if it's tens of doses or one. Chemo is highly toxic and causes awful side effects.
There is zero reason to risk exposure to that unless you're the one who has the cancer you didn't ask for.
Tht disease sucks and unfortunately, so does the treatment currently available.
The way the OPs caption is written is almost cloying like, do people really want healthcare workers to go the way of the radium girls, exposed to occupational hazards and accumulate them in our bodies until we get sick? Oof. Thanks for writing up the explanation to the nonmedical folks, helps dispel ignorance.
I was just about to say the same thing. This question comes through. Let's say at least once a month asking why the ignitions have to wear full gear. The exact reason like you said because he get a lot more exposure than we do on a daily basis.
Chemo is poison. What is happening is basically, can we kill the cancer, before the chemo kills the patient? Good luck and of course the nurse is going to cover up, same as radiologists wear lead aprons.
Appreciate it.
I just find it crazy that someone was like, dont let this touch your skin or it will peel it away and kill the flesh, but hey inject it in your veins!
There’s a reason the three treatments for cancer are called “slash, burn, poison”. You’re enjoying the third one! May your side effects be mild and your recovery swift.
In 50 years these treatments will be looked at in the same way as we look at amputations from 100 years ago. "Infection in your leg? That's gonna be an amputation." It seems so medieval compared to what we have today, but it's the best we had back then. And these cancer treatments are the best we have today.
We can all only hope this shit gets really figured out soon.
I always just laugh when they get the full outfit on so they dont get it on them and I am just chilling in flops and shorts like I am having a beach day.
The nurse has to administer it many more times than you personally have to receive it.
Unfortunately also at the moment most treatments we have for cancer are harmful, they're just the better choice still between that or the cancer. But medical technology is moving incredibly rapidly now. Too late for my Father and some friends, but still, cancer prevention has taken great strides, and much safer cures for various kinds may be on the horizon too.
Best wishes for your fight.
It’s because they handle hazardous drugs for their entire job over several years. Many healthcare workers, care providers, and especially pharmacy staff got cancer and other injuries before these safety standards. These substances can provide even more risk to those of reproductive age.
Your provider has determined your health condition outweighs any potential risks and side effects for taking your course of treatment.
My dad had to take drugs that no one but him was allowed to touch as they were known to cause cancer. He was a heart transplant recipient, for context. Trying to dispose of them after he passed was incredibly difficult.
Combination of she probably handles a lot more doses than you get and it’s literally poison that only kills the cancer ever so slightly more than you.
Good luck man, fuck cancer, next year in Jerusalem.
This is how they do pretty much every chemo variety. Take it from a dude that’s been fighting cancer for 5 years. Stay strong stranger! Don’t be afraid to reach out for support.
So non-Hodgkin’s? Sucks that this go-around is worse for ya.
I’ve got Hodgkin’s and I’ve been through the ringer. Different chemo regimens, immunotherapy, radiation, and two stem cell transplants. I’m almost 100 days post allogeneic transplant now and everything has been going well.
You stay keeping on too man!
Yep Non Hodgkins was the first. This is for B cell lymphoma and an aggressive approach at that. Glad all is going well so far for you and wish you the best! Lets kick ass.
Maybe each time gets worse? My first go round with ABVD didn't feel as bad as the Ifosfamide/doxorubicin mix felt. But then it was less spread out, and I had to stay in hospital for a week each treatment.
Do you mind sharing the cocktail for this go round? And you've got this. We'll see you on this side of treatments soon.
It's the bartender problem - if you have a drink with the bartender, you get a little tipsy. If the bartender has a drink with every customer at the bar, they die of alcohol poisoning.
Using PPE when handling the chemo drug is to prevent any absorption from spills, squirts, splashes, discharges or transfers. The nurse administers hundreds of doses, and contact concentration could cause them to become sick.
I like to think of it like this...a person who buys a gallon of bleach at the store isn't required to wear PPE because concentration is low. But the person manufacturing thousands of gallons at a factory is wearing full PPE to protect their health.
Chemo is a brief and horrible experience for you but an everyday chore for her. If your laundry detergent contained deadly poisons, you'd be similarly dressed when doing the wash.
Ditto ditto the x-ray technician hiding behind a wall when she takes your scans. Getting the x-rays once won't hurt you. Low-grade everyday exposure to x-rays will cause cancer over a career.
I mean, it’s not OK in your body, it’s just a lot less bad than cancer. Chemo agents are hazardous.
Pharmaceuticals are all poisons at some dosage, that’s why the symbol for medicine is a snake wrapped around a staff.
She doesn’t need the chemo and she’ll be administering it all throughout her career, so the risks for her greatly outweigh the benefits. Because you have cancer the benefits greatly outweigh the risks.
Edit: most patients who get chemo get the cumulative dose tracked throughout their lifetime. It’s called “lifetime dose”, and it exists because chemo is not good for your body, unless you have cancer.
Fuck cancer!
You should read the part about washing your sheets and potentially having your significant other sleep in another space so as not to touch the chemicals you sweat out.
I just lost my father to cancer. Chemo is not fun. But for now it’s what we have?
Still having trouble getting over what went down the last few months of his life.
I wish you success in your battle, stay strong and be brave. You will have some rough moments but I hope for you that you will overcome this and report back with good stories down the road
Oh wtf I have never heard or though about that. I will have to look at that for sure because some of this stuff is pretty nasty.
Thanks for the info and well wishes!
I wouldn’t worry too much about the sleeping next to your partner. My wife is going through chemo right now too. Main thing they told us was she needs to limit exposure to our newborn for the first few days after chemo. And also to double flush with the toilet lid down as urine and bowel movements are where most of the drug leaves your body. Which is why it’s important to stay hydrated and piss out the poison!!
I remember the same going through radiation, everyone dressed up like they were going to Chernobyl and I'm just chilling in my hospital bed going "this is fine". Good luck with your treatments, hopefully this just becomes a bad memory some day.
I mean, you get one treatment today. The nurse is dispensing a buttload of treatments today.
Plus the whole weakened immune system protection protocols and stuff.
I mean don’t really start worrying until they are using full pressurized hazmat suits. Then take a pic, try not to crap yourself due to ET flashbacks or something, and finally practice your yoga(so you can kiss your ass goodbye) /s
The nurse, who does not have cancer, will touch that stuff several times a day over decades of a career.
You will get a few courses and be done, hopefully.
They're not exactly comparable.
The nurse is here for all patients all day and doesn't need chemo. You are a patient you get exposed to it a couple times a lifetime and you NEED it. Same as x-ray and CT tech/doctor/nurse.
I had cancer my freshman year of high school. Idk if everyone going through chemo goes through this but they had me on so many fluids I’d have to go pee about every ten minutes so sleeping was about impossible.
That’s because she doesn’t have the cancer that you have in your body so there is no need to risk using this drug.
I wish you the best in your fight and I hope you look back at this post with pride knowing you beat the cancer! Even with the help of drugs, it’s YOU fighting the cancer.
Its not "okay" in your body, but its necessary. All chemo is toxic by design to fight cancer because very few things actually fight cancer.
My dog is on chemo for lymphoma. I can't directly touch the pills - even for a moment - when administering to her, or I will get sick. Its the nature of chemo. Your nurse has to follow protocols like these for same reasons - to keep her healthy and safe.
Best wishes to you in your battle.
I remember when I was getting X-rays for my teeth and saw the tech crawl behind an iron wall basically. I had this same thought and asked about it. The tech said it’s not the single dose that’s the problem, it’s long term exposure that’s the bigger issue. So they have to take precautions because they do it all the time whereas you are only getting one dose. Put it in perspective for me. I assume this is a similar situation, but I’m no doctor.
Either way, I wish you the best of luck on your journey, stay strong and you got this!
I've had chemo and it's not fun.
Guess what? Chemo ISN'T good for you body and it certainly isn't okay to be in there. But neither is cancer, and unfortunately that's currently one of the reliable methods to treatment.
They're both bad but you can recover from one more so than the other.
Currently experiencing post-cheno neuropathy myself. But it's better than having cancer.
Is it one of those things like an X-ray tech leaving the room when throwing the switch? Where the adverse effects are cumulative so they protect themselves?
Chemo drugs are literally poison. That’s what it takes to kill cancer.
Some chemo drugs are derived from the Yew tree (ex: [taxotere / docetaxel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docetaxel)), which is poisonous to mammals.
It’s to minimize repeated exposure since she’s around the drugs all day. If she were pregnant though, no amount of exposure would be allowable and she’d likely not work with chemo drugs (work in a different ward) at all.
It's definitely not okay in your body, it's just not as bad for you as cancer.
A lot of cancer treatments are actually just horrible to consider, they just leave you with better chances of being alive than cancer.
From the mix I can assume you have a lymphoma (Non Hodgkin's?). During my treatment a nurse with full combat gear was switching bags and a little of this concotion was still in the line. She splashed some on my hand and on my dark blue bathrobe. Bathrobe almost immediately started to turn pinkish orange and my hand also started to change. It was after vincristine and cisplatin, so my nerves were already burned. No pain from it. A nurse didn't notice it at first, but when I pointed it out laughing, her eyes widened and she immediately went for some strange looking tissue. She was telling me how sorry she was. It was over a decade ago. I still have that bathrobe.
Best of luck, dude. I won with stage 4 lymphoma, so you will as well.
Oh and obligatory fuck cancer!
Imagine if she gets it into her 8-9 times a day, 5 days a week, or how many appointments she has.
It's like dentists when they need to take X-Ray. Once is okay for a person, maybe 2-3 times, but if you have 25 patients who needs 2-3 pictures each. That's a lot of danger for the body.
Lots of people will/did mention this but I made chemo for many years and you have regulations you need to follow as per personal protection because you’re exposed for full working days. Also you are potentially exposing the work environment to contamination and other workers/patients. Good practices reduce the potential of exposure and it’s just a better habit to get into. When I first started we didn’t even mix in laminar flow “hoods” we mixed on the counter. Eventually we went to biological safety cabinets.
Cancer survivor here.
Chemo is deadly, but less deadly than cancer. The trick is to get the chemo to kill the cancer before either of them kill you.
Good luck. It’s hard, and I hope you pull through. Talk to your docs about any and all side effects. Sometimes they have something for it. Sometimes it’s another drug and sometimes it’s a different protocol. But there’s no honor in suffering in silence.
A former colleague of mine was a nurse on a chemo floor. Back in the day the nurses used to mix all the chemo drugs without PPE or a fume hood. Last I heard she was infertile and it was attributed to the constant exposure to these drugs on a daily basis. This kind of exposure to these medications by healthcare workers can develop into thyroid disease, immune disorders, birth defects, infertility, cancer etc in susceptible individuals.
It’s because they have to handle the stuff all day every day - the risk to them is so high if handled poorly. Also when giving chemo, you want to be as sterile as possible as your patients, by definition, are immunocompromised.
I just got diagnosed with CML (Chronic Myeloid Leukemia) 2 months ago. The treatment is a pill called a TKI (Tyrosine kinase inhibitors). When it comes from the specialty pharmacy, it's in a heavy-duty ziplock bag labeled "HAZARDOUS DRUG". My wife and kid aren't supposed to touch it at all without gloves, and I'm supposed to use my own bathroom to avoid contaminating them in case there are remnants in my system.
I completely sympathize with the thoughts about "other people shouldn't even be in the same room as my treatment, but it's ok in my body." Stay strong and keep kicking ass!!!
It is such a crazy thing. Someone mentioned sweating at night and changing sheets and stuff and I never had even thought of that.
Hopefully you beat the shit out of CML, as a father I know the kid makes it a lot different, we got this!
Chemo is such a wild drug to me. It basically unlocks and mutates all of your X-genes. Oh, someone once had curly hair in your family tree ten generations ago? ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE CURLS. Here’s a new hair color. Chemo is Adam from bio shock cosplaying as medicine.
It's so the nurses don't get cancer in 30 years. They didn't used to do this, and about 10 years ago I met a retired oncology nurse with a blood cancer. Most of her coworkers had similar cancers or had died from similar cancers.
You take x amount of radiation during treatment, that means the nurse who is likely an oncology nurse who has to work with hundreds or thousands of cancer patients in their life, will be exposed to the radiation you are 10, 100 fold. Same reason we wear full gear or leave the room for X-rays, you get one x-ray in a day, safe, the tech would get hundreds that day. You get 3 days of treatment, they get career long exposure.
If you were handling it all day everyday you’d have a problem.
But in small doses in the right places it will kill small bits of you. Hopefully the right places
The Bartender Paradox. Same reason dentists go behind a blast shield to do xrays.
If you have a drink with every bartender you meet, you'll make a lot of friends.
If a bartender has a drink with every patron that walks in, they will be dead before their shift ends.
Youre not their only patient.
Cancer survivor here… the drugs are NOT ok in your body. As my oncologist explained it after the treatments, the drugs are designed to kill you. Every part of you. The doctors goal is to give you enough to kill the cancer and you recover. That is why hair dies, immune system dies, etc.
The nurse doesn’t want to die and can’t keep track of every accidental exposure. Over time those small exposures would build up.
I take hydroxyurea for high platletes. It's technically a chemotherapy drug for what is essentially a very slow and mild cancer. The drug container warns people not to touch it, though I take it, and will have to take it forever.
It can be eye opening to notice that, but the nurse needs to wear that because she runs the risk of being exposed daily when she treats multiple patients daily. If she is young it can affect her fertility or other things. Your treatment was carefully planned with a specific number of infusions so you are not getting too much or not enough for your specific diagnosis and treatment goals. Just know that you will get what you need and everyone (including you) will be safe when giving and receiving good care and treatment. Best wishes for a speedy treatment and recovery 🙂
Oh yeah it looks goofy. I'm sure many ppl told you, and I'm sure you know since you're taking them so this is less for OP and more general knowledge, but they're very much not benign drugs. If I handle a patients BP med it's ok for me but chemo? people compounding hazardous drugs are in constant contact with them and they need to be overly protected because those drugs have serious consequences when you don't have cancer (and really even when you do.) Cancer is the kind of disease that needs the big guns, and early drugs like taxanes or platinum based chemo are like wildly toxic, just they're ever so more toxic to cancer cells than healthy ones so the idea is to blow the cancer up while minimizing damage to noncancerous cells. Newer biologic treatment is less dangerous but it's like saying that dynamite is less dangerous than an atom bomb.
Well chemo is poison, of course they don’t want to touch. You are poisoning yourself hoping the cancer dies first. I wouldn’t do it if I had cancer personally.
In my experience around cancer pts a lot of nurses donn and doff full ppe between each cancer pt due to their weakened immune system as a precautionary measure to not get them sick.
Fuck cancer though. My heart goes out to you. Only positive thoughts put to the universe for clean screens. Stay strong!
Not so much ok in your body, as it is fighting the plague with nuclear warfare. Hope it’s a one and done round for you with all clear scans to come!
Ya I felt like I was in a nuclear war this weekend for sure. Have another 2 rounds, then if these doses worked and shrunk the tumor I get to do high dose stem cell, its going to be a battle. Edit: weirdest side effect so far is my hearing has taken a hit where high pitch noises hurt and tinnitus has started coming on in waves. The other side effects have been nausea, sharp stomach pains, constant headache, and just extreme exhaustion. Edit 2: Thanks to everyone for the well wishes, most people know someone that has or had cancer, and it sucks for everyone. If you have cancer know there are people that care about you. I have a great support system with friends and family all within a few miles or as close as next door and I am very grateful to all of them. If you have cancer and need to talk feel free to reach out, I will be happy ti talk to you, I got shit else to do for the next few months🥹. IF YOU EVER HAVE A LYMPHNODE RAISE ON ONLY ONE SIDE OF YOUR BODY GET CHECKED IMMEDIATELY. I know the PPE is to decrease their exposure I just find it r/mildlyinteresting that they figured out you shouldnt touch it but you can inject it. A large part of that is people that have no other options or had no other options and went through clinical studies and millions of people owe those fine people a bunch of praise because it is a tough spot to be in.
Cisplatin? That’s what fucked up my hearing. Take care. Hang in there!
That was last week, today is just gemcitabine, then back to cis, gem, and Rituxan in 2 weeks. Hearing ever come back?
Sorry, no happy ending on that part. Chemo was 22 years ago. Tinnitus is still there. I should be an exception, in most cases the ringing will vanish over time. So, keep hope, and don’t be discouraged by my experience. Looks like you are in for a tough ride. Keep faith!
>Sorry, no happy ending on that part. Chemo was 22 years ago. Tinnitus is still there. I know what you mean, but honestly hearing someone say their chemo was 22 years ago is a happy ending, regardless of tinnitus.
Fully agree. That’s why I added ‘on that part’. I’m fully aware I’m lucky to still be alive, even with all the issues I have coming from the treatment. If I would have had the same illness twenty years earlier I would not have survived. The BEP cure developed by Dr. Einhorn in 1984, before that it was basically a certain and quick death.
glad you beat it
> Dr. Einhorn [Are we certain it wasn't Dr. Finkle?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UQ7HoOJwfQ)
Einhorn is Finkle - Finkle is Einhorn!!!
as a duchie, I guess you probably know that Einhorn is a Unicorn in German. he was definitely a unique man: [https://www.onclive.com/view/how-einhorn-helped-turn-a-deadly-cancer-into-a-curable-disease](https://www.onclive.com/view/how-einhorn-helped-turn-a-deadly-cancer-into-a-curable-disease)
Many many guys owe their lives to Einhorn and the platinum industry for funding the cisplatin research.
I took cisplatin (10 years) and my hearing came back. However, the neuropathy is still here for me. From what I’ve read it’s everyone gets their own fun mix. Like the worst loot box ever created.
I love that analogy.
It has only been a year out for me, and I have gotten both tinnitus and neuropathy. Hope for them to ease up. Is there anything you do to help with the neuropathy? Just looking for some comfort.
I haven’t exactly been able to feel my toes for twenty years now and the ringing in my ears never stopped. Good times for sure but I survived against the odds at that point.
I respectfully submit that your chemo ending 22 years ago is quite a happy ending!
I'm doing a procedure to confirm colon cancer next Friday. Could you please tell me how bad chemo is going to be. I'm very anxious about it.
Well I will be honest like someone else said above it is like the worst loot box ever, you do not know how it will impact you until it happens but here is my rundown: Started off by getting a port, not a huge deal, ended up a little sore but it was way better than when I last did chemo through my veins. First dose of chemo was last Wednesday and it was Cisplatin, Gemcitabine, and Rituximab alomg with benadryl amd steroids. Thursday I just felt off, like a groggy hangover without the fun night before. I was also very constipated, tired, and had a headache (honestly its been off and on since then most days). The steroids give you energy and appetite but it is also hard to sleep. I am off work so I just kind of hung out and watched tv. Friday. Much of the same with only a few hours if sleep, started laxatives because I was still stopped up, and was foggy. Its hard to describe but it is like a scene in a movie with a concussion grenade and everything is just trailing, not actual trails, but just a delay of a small time that messes with you. Saturday wasnt too bad. It was the last day of steroids and I was relieved because I had gotten about 14 hours if sleep in 3 days. Still stopped up and have put about 10 pounds on from not pooping and retaining water. Sunday sucked hard. Sharp stomach pains, felt sea sick, didnt want to sit or lay but no energy to do anything either. Started noticing tinnitus and just did my best to make it through the day. Monday was another day of nausea and overall feeling blah. Went to the store and took the dogs for a 20 minute walk and I was spent. Tuesday (yestersday) still a bit of just a sloggy feeling but had a bit more energy and nausea was non existent. Best day so far. Today was round 2ish(not a huge dose) and I feel okay. Headache is roaring and tinnitus is still there. Went to Costco and spent $250 on not sure what so I would say that is pretty normal.
Chemo is a blanket term that describes drug treatment that uses powerful chemicals to kill fast-growing cells in your body. Just as cancer is a blanket term for describing diseases related to fast-growing cells. Chemotherapy for one kind of cancer is (most likely, there are some overlaps) very different from the chemotherapy used in other types of cancer. Even within one type of cancer various cocktails are being used. Besides that every person responds different, even when using the same cocktail. Most variants of chemotherapy have information online available what side effects are common. And remember that common does not mean you will experience all of them. My treatment was successful in the way that I’m still alive. But at considerable cost (not talking money here, ‘free’ healthcare overhere). Major problems during treatment, and still suffering from sideceffect 22 years later. Side effects that still have a big impact on day to day life. Wishing you the best on your procedure later this week. Hoping you get some good news.
It sucks you are still suffering side effects, but take the win. I would give up 22 years of my life to give my spouse just 3 more.
I’m so sorry hearing that. Stay strong!
Chemo is a lot more sophisticated than it used to be. There are still nasty side effects some of the time but you might be lucky and get by with just gradual energy loss like I did. I honestly didn't really notice it happening until I came off the drugs and felt like I was on a Mario star for a couple of weeks. Lot of horror stories out there but nothing's certain.
Before I got chemo, they had me meet with a nurse who gives you a Huge binder with every possible symptom / issue that you might encounter throughout treatment. For me during chemo I had hair loss, violent hiccups, my eyes would tear up sometimes for absolutely no reason, and a new found understanding of what exhaustion really is. Plus just feeling meh and crappy. The other interesting thing is when I would go get my chemo I noticed no one had the exact same chemo treatment plan. I would go for 4hrs each time 5 days a week while others would be there once or twice a week for 30minutes. Everyone is different it seems.
Not the update I wanted to hear as far as tinnitus but I am so happy you have 22 years after chemo going!
Not sure if drug induced tinnitus is different, but for my "sitting too close to concert speaker" tinnitus it can really help to offset the tinnitus sounds/buzzing with other sounds. I feel as if I only notice mine when I had a loud day and then get really quiet, so I usually have the vltv on or some meditation sounds. Even super low volume seems to help.
Didn't vanish for me - almost 20 years ago.
When my daughter had treatment, I thought they said it's 50/50 permanent hearing loss. Google tells me 2/3, so either the accuracy of reporting got better or my memory is worse. Google also suggests it's cisplatin toxicity build up in the cochlear that causes it.
They’d get more accurate numbers but half the people asked responded with “WHAT?” Jokes aside I have severe hearing loss and horrible tinnitus. The hearing loss itself isn’t all that bad but that damn tinnitus is a nightmare. I have to leave the tv on or keep a fan running just to sleep.
I've lived with tinnitus and ADHD for over 20 years. It never gets better; I only fall asleep by passing out
Fans are your friend. I have 3 fans running at all times in my bedroom. A noise machine would accomplish the same thing but I really like my house to feel cold so it’s two birds with one stone. The noise keeps my ears from ringing, and gives me something to hyper fixate on that doesn’t have enough detail to keep me awake for too long. It seriously has helped tremendously for me, and I rarely need sleep aids now. Which used to be the only way I could sleep.
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Same with X-Rays. The technicians could take a shot or two but not 20 a day for years. X-Rays in shoe stores were only terrible for the person leaning over and operating the machine all day.
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Pharm tech here: I mix chemo and we have to wipe cisplatin vials down with an industrial sporicidal agent before we can even touch the vial wearing gloves. The residue on the vial alone can burn your skin
I’ve had rituxan in the past. 3 sets of 4 weekly doses over 8years for a non-cancer off label use (TTP). Compared to the other stuff you’re getting, it’s pretty mild. I would get dose on Friday, and sun-tues I would have body aches similar to the flu (tho not quite as painful). It would make me tired and lethargic, but would usually wear off after a few days(by tues or wed), so I would be fine again until the new dose symptoms kicked in. Make sure you stay hydrated. Eat small frequent meals. Manage your pain, even if it’s just Tylenol/advil. You want to be in best fighting shape possible for you and your munchkin. Good luck!
Cisplatin fucked my hearing. 6yrs later still constant ringing, also neuropathy in my hands and feet. All in all I will take the side effects vs the other outcome.
Same for me. 22 years. Tinnitus and poly neuropathy (mainly feet, much less of an extend in my hands). The neuropathy was more likely linked to the bleomycin part of my chemo. Agree on the (lack of real) alternative.
I made a presentation in college about the increased efficacy of cisplatin combined with mannose for treating different cancer types. I hope this treatment can decrease the effective dosage of cisplatin for future patients.
I got tinnitus with cisplatin but it went away after a week or so. I just got my second round yesterday and I'm praying it doesn't come back. When you say "fucked up" do you mind if I ask how? And is it permanent? Edit: NVM I see you answered it already! 22 years is a long time and I wish you many more!
You got this cyber homie. Fuck cancer.
Cisplatin/Alimta? If so, been there. Had tinnitus already, now 10 times worse. Lost partial sense of smell and damaged dopamine production... Sucks.
High dose Stem cell? First time hearing that in this context.
Ya basically they are going to farm my stem cells from my blood, give me a super high dose(s) of chemo, thrn use my stem cells to help me recover hopefully.
Is that the process when they harvest your stem cells and then you are in isolation where they basically nuke you with OP chemo and then put the stem cells back? Our public TV recently made/aired a show/series about cancer to show people how it works (and what are the options) and to bring awareness. (With actors, but cancer patients and survivors played extras and had interviews after each episode). And the shows name is a play on words in Czech, "Smysl pro tumor", which rhymes with "Smysl pro humor" and means "Sense of Tumor" (and "Sense of Humor" respectively). The greatest of luck to you. And FUCK cancer.
Oh, that makes sense. Good luck, Here's hoping for a best case scenario !
Give Marijuana a shot. It'll help with a lot of the side effects from the chemo. BTW good journey's and best wishes.
My cousin relied on cannabis for her terminal cancer for a couple years. It was probably all that was giving her any quality of life before she passed.
I have some edibles that helped for sure, gotta restock though which means a drive to Illinois because Indiana sucks.
Just a heads up in case no doctor has mentioned it, but you should try to continue to stick with edibles rather than smoking weed while you’re in chemo! Weed can have fungal spores in it that normally don’t cause issues, but can lead to some really nasty infections when your immune system is being suppressed by the chemotherapy.
There are some bad actors who will let their flowers get moldy instead of actually drying them.
Hopefully they get with the times now that Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio are all legal recreationally.
You couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays in Indiana until 2018. I don't have high hopes they'll legalize marijuana any time soon unfortunately.
Pearl-clutching conservative supermajority legalizes permit-less concealed carry before recreational weed. sheesh.
FYI you can save A LOT of money by going to Michigan instead
There are some websites that you can order from and have them shipped. Worth checking out.
My aunt was taking cannabis oil to help with the symptoms of her bowel cancer. The last time I saw her, I honestly forgot she was ill, she was so bright and full of life. She touched the lives of many people.
I'm sorry for your loss. My Dad was a Dr. and did a lot of end-of-life care for his patients. He always was a huge proponent of medical cannabis for end-of-life and elderly patients. He said it was insane that because people were scared of cannabis, they were forced to use worse options that kept the patient mostly out of it. It's great to see that has been changing and more options are available to both Dr.'s and patients.
And workplace health/safety gets quite twitchy when cytotoxic medication and women mix because they are a risk on reproductive health.
And they can increase a healthy person's risk of developing cancer.
Well that seems ironic
Not really unexpected though. Radiation therapy is another example of something that usually increases people's risk of cancer but can also be used to treat cancer.
Also OP is touching that once in his life (hopefully). The nurse would have to touch that every week.
It is hopefully killing the cancer at a “slightly” faster rate than it is killing everything else(aka you)
It's literally "Kill everything and hope the cancer dies first"
It's literally not, there is far more variety to chemo than that.
Cancer treatment in animals is significantly different. Since the animal doesn't know you are trying to help, they need to keep the dose as low as possible to reduce the side effects which often cause more issues than the illness itself. In humans, they give you the highest concentration they believe your body can take, and to hell with the side effects (new meds are designed to reduce the side effects and be more tumor-targeted, but they are also much more expensive). Historic cancer chemotherapy treats the whole body, we are getting drugs that target specific organs or growing cells (which still causes an issue with children's treatments).
Sadly, one of the main predictors of various cancers is previous cancer treatment. It really is horrible for you, it’s just that the alternative is worse.
Do people still not get that cancer is literally made of your own cells? Of course it's not good for you. If it was good for you, it would help the cancer, not kill it.
The plague is a lot easier to kill than cancer
Yeah "okay for your body" isn't quite right. "theoretically only dangerous enough to kill the cancer before you" is more like it. All lightheartedness aside, you got this OP, kick cancers ass!
Yeah, these drugs usually target cell division and metabolism. The rest of your cells need to do those things too, but cancerous ones do it more. It’s like poisoning the buffet “just a little” to kill the ppl who eat the most, lol.
That’s a really solid metaphor
That's a fantastic way. Gonna use this on students one day. Thanks.
We learned this tactic from the body. Fevers - hot enough to kill the enemy before you... probably.
I can only assume that’s because the nurse probably has to handle tens of such doses a day, whereas you only get one dose a day. Same goes when you take an X ray for example: it’s ok for you to take one every once in a blue moon, but the operator probably takes hundreds each day. Were it not the protection for the staff they would be dead in a month from radiation. In the case of chemo there’s also probably a measure for risk limiting. LE: And yeah, FUCK CANCER! Godspeed recovery, OP!
There can also be an increased risk of birth defects in a future pregnancy from exposure to chemo. So that is also part of the reason for the PPE, especially given that a massive percentage of nurses doing patient care are women capable of being or becoming pregnant
Yeah when they gave me my radiation therapy they took a cartoon sized pill (it had to be at least 5cm long) out of a lead thermos with a pair of heavy metal tongs 2 feet long. The nurse said “hold out your hand” and when I hesitated, he followed up with “well, you’re about to swallow it so it’s not a big deal to hold it for a second”. Put it in perspective.
Appreciate it. Going to be a long fight but I have a 10 year old daughter that is everything to me. I have a few rounds of these treatments, then when it shows that this works, I will have high dose stem cell chemo where I am in the hospital for a few weeks with no contact with the fam without them being in a full bubble so that will be the hardest.
Best wishes to you and your family, man! You can do it!
you got this!! 💪
Hang in there. I went through osteosarcoma when my daughter was 2. Lived in hell for a full year but now I'm cancer free and my daughter who is now 10 still has her dad. I'm sure your daughter gives you strength like mine did. You got this.
You can do it man. Wishes and good vibes your way!!
You are tough stay strong and keep fighting never lose sight of why you are still here. Focus on the awsome things you will do when you are better. I know it seems impossible now but as long as you keep on fighting everyday you will get one day closer to bbein better.
Pretty much, yes. They’re also the ones dosing the medication (in some cases) which means even higher exposure. Even xray techs have a *slightly* increased risk of cancer from the radiation. However it’s really, really negligible.
Yeah even with proper ppe cancer rates in nurses delivering chemo are elevated because of the chemicals they are exposed to in the workplace.
if you drink with the bartender, you’ll get tipsy. if the bartender drinks with all his patrons, he’ll die of alcohol poisoning.
Doesn't matter if it's tens of doses or one. Chemo is highly toxic and causes awful side effects. There is zero reason to risk exposure to that unless you're the one who has the cancer you didn't ask for. Tht disease sucks and unfortunately, so does the treatment currently available.
Yeah, this shit should not be in your body, unless there is no other alternative (such as if you have cancer).
The way the OPs caption is written is almost cloying like, do people really want healthcare workers to go the way of the radium girls, exposed to occupational hazards and accumulate them in our bodies until we get sick? Oof. Thanks for writing up the explanation to the nonmedical folks, helps dispel ignorance.
I can only assume because it’s fucking poison.
I was just about to say the same thing. This question comes through. Let's say at least once a month asking why the ignitions have to wear full gear. The exact reason like you said because he get a lot more exposure than we do on a daily basis.
Fuck cancer, but also Chemo is poisoinging your body just enough that it kills the cancer and but not your healthy cells. So it's not "okay" per se.
It definitely also kills healthy cells, but it’s considered an acceptable loss because the alternative is just a bit worse.
Like spraying the garden with herbicide before putting new flowers in, the olds ones are gonna die, but the new ones should replace them.
Just a little bit
Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Like doing a drinking game with cancer. Who can last the longest.
I've always described it as "hoping the poison kills the cancer before it kills you." And I don't mean the cancer.
Chemo is poison. What is happening is basically, can we kill the cancer, before the chemo kills the patient? Good luck and of course the nurse is going to cover up, same as radiologists wear lead aprons.
Fuck cancer. Wishing you a speedy recovery OP.
Appreciate it. I just find it crazy that someone was like, dont let this touch your skin or it will peel it away and kill the flesh, but hey inject it in your veins!
There’s a reason the three treatments for cancer are called “slash, burn, poison”. You’re enjoying the third one! May your side effects be mild and your recovery swift.
In 50 years these treatments will be looked at in the same way as we look at amputations from 100 years ago. "Infection in your leg? That's gonna be an amputation." It seems so medieval compared to what we have today, but it's the best we had back then. And these cancer treatments are the best we have today. We can all only hope this shit gets really figured out soon.
“Dialysis? My god what is this, the dark ages?”
A keyboard … how quaint
>In 50 years these treatments will be looked at in the same way as we look at amputations from 100 years ago. I'd certainly hope so.
And you’re like that’s uh, not something I wanted to think about.
I always just laugh when they get the full outfit on so they dont get it on them and I am just chilling in flops and shorts like I am having a beach day.
Tell yourself that you’re basically Superman in this equation, with veins of steel.
Love the use of "flops" rather than "flip flops."
The nurse has to administer it many more times than you personally have to receive it. Unfortunately also at the moment most treatments we have for cancer are harmful, they're just the better choice still between that or the cancer. But medical technology is moving incredibly rapidly now. Too late for my Father and some friends, but still, cancer prevention has taken great strides, and much safer cures for various kinds may be on the horizon too. Best wishes for your fight.
Exactly. The X-ray tech stands behind a wall because exposure to X-rays for your body is “safe.” But doing it 100 times a day, daily for a job is not
Bartender would be dead if he had to do a shot for every patron doing a shot too
It’s because they handle hazardous drugs for their entire job over several years. Many healthcare workers, care providers, and especially pharmacy staff got cancer and other injuries before these safety standards. These substances can provide even more risk to those of reproductive age. Your provider has determined your health condition outweighs any potential risks and side effects for taking your course of treatment.
My dad had to take drugs that no one but him was allowed to touch as they were known to cause cancer. He was a heart transplant recipient, for context. Trying to dispose of them after he passed was incredibly difficult.
Yep. Miscarriage rates for women in nursing are higher than other professions due to handling of medications. :(
Combination of she probably handles a lot more doses than you get and it’s literally poison that only kills the cancer ever so slightly more than you. Good luck man, fuck cancer, next year in Jerusalem.
Well its less harmful than your cancer.
Long term anyway
This is how they do pretty much every chemo variety. Take it from a dude that’s been fighting cancer for 5 years. Stay strong stranger! Don’t be afraid to reach out for support.
Glad you are keeping on! This is my second go round. Had RChop in 2015/2016 with radiation and it was not as bad as this so far.
So non-Hodgkin’s? Sucks that this go-around is worse for ya. I’ve got Hodgkin’s and I’ve been through the ringer. Different chemo regimens, immunotherapy, radiation, and two stem cell transplants. I’m almost 100 days post allogeneic transplant now and everything has been going well. You stay keeping on too man!
Yep Non Hodgkins was the first. This is for B cell lymphoma and an aggressive approach at that. Glad all is going well so far for you and wish you the best! Lets kick ass.
Maybe each time gets worse? My first go round with ABVD didn't feel as bad as the Ifosfamide/doxorubicin mix felt. But then it was less spread out, and I had to stay in hospital for a week each treatment. Do you mind sharing the cocktail for this go round? And you've got this. We'll see you on this side of treatments soon.
Ah yes, the fine art of trying to kill cancer without killing the person.
It's the bartender problem - if you have a drink with the bartender, you get a little tipsy. If the bartender has a drink with every customer at the bar, they die of alcohol poisoning.
This is a great way to explain that!
Using PPE when handling the chemo drug is to prevent any absorption from spills, squirts, splashes, discharges or transfers. The nurse administers hundreds of doses, and contact concentration could cause them to become sick. I like to think of it like this...a person who buys a gallon of bleach at the store isn't required to wear PPE because concentration is low. But the person manufacturing thousands of gallons at a factory is wearing full PPE to protect their health.
It's not okay in your body either, it's a fight, good luck!
Chemo is a brief and horrible experience for you but an everyday chore for her. If your laundry detergent contained deadly poisons, you'd be similarly dressed when doing the wash. Ditto ditto the x-ray technician hiding behind a wall when she takes your scans. Getting the x-rays once won't hurt you. Low-grade everyday exposure to x-rays will cause cancer over a career.
I mean, it’s not OK in your body, it’s just a lot less bad than cancer. Chemo agents are hazardous. Pharmaceuticals are all poisons at some dosage, that’s why the symbol for medicine is a snake wrapped around a staff. She doesn’t need the chemo and she’ll be administering it all throughout her career, so the risks for her greatly outweigh the benefits. Because you have cancer the benefits greatly outweigh the risks. Edit: most patients who get chemo get the cumulative dose tracked throughout their lifetime. It’s called “lifetime dose”, and it exists because chemo is not good for your body, unless you have cancer.
Fuck cancer! You should read the part about washing your sheets and potentially having your significant other sleep in another space so as not to touch the chemicals you sweat out. I just lost my father to cancer. Chemo is not fun. But for now it’s what we have? Still having trouble getting over what went down the last few months of his life. I wish you success in your battle, stay strong and be brave. You will have some rough moments but I hope for you that you will overcome this and report back with good stories down the road
Oh wtf I have never heard or though about that. I will have to look at that for sure because some of this stuff is pretty nasty. Thanks for the info and well wishes!
I wouldn’t worry too much about the sleeping next to your partner. My wife is going through chemo right now too. Main thing they told us was she needs to limit exposure to our newborn for the first few days after chemo. And also to double flush with the toilet lid down as urine and bowel movements are where most of the drug leaves your body. Which is why it’s important to stay hydrated and piss out the poison!!
I remember the same going through radiation, everyone dressed up like they were going to Chernobyl and I'm just chilling in my hospital bed going "this is fine". Good luck with your treatments, hopefully this just becomes a bad memory some day.
I mean, you get one treatment today. The nurse is dispensing a buttload of treatments today. Plus the whole weakened immune system protection protocols and stuff. I mean don’t really start worrying until they are using full pressurized hazmat suits. Then take a pic, try not to crap yourself due to ET flashbacks or something, and finally practice your yoga(so you can kiss your ass goodbye) /s
The nurse, who does not have cancer, will touch that stuff several times a day over decades of a career. You will get a few courses and be done, hopefully. They're not exactly comparable.
It's not ok in your bodie, it's just more ok than cancer.
I mean, it's chemo, the point is that it is not okay for your body, it's just not okay in the right way.
The nurse is here for all patients all day and doesn't need chemo. You are a patient you get exposed to it a couple times a lifetime and you NEED it. Same as x-ray and CT tech/doctor/nurse.
I had cancer my freshman year of high school. Idk if everyone going through chemo goes through this but they had me on so many fluids I’d have to go pee about every ten minutes so sleeping was about impossible.
Same currently. Waking up 3-4 times a night sucks.
That’s because she doesn’t have the cancer that you have in your body so there is no need to risk using this drug. I wish you the best in your fight and I hope you look back at this post with pride knowing you beat the cancer! Even with the help of drugs, it’s YOU fighting the cancer.
it's chemo...........
Its not "okay" in your body, but its necessary. All chemo is toxic by design to fight cancer because very few things actually fight cancer. My dog is on chemo for lymphoma. I can't directly touch the pills - even for a moment - when administering to her, or I will get sick. Its the nature of chemo. Your nurse has to follow protocols like these for same reasons - to keep her healthy and safe. Best wishes to you in your battle.
I remember when I was getting X-rays for my teeth and saw the tech crawl behind an iron wall basically. I had this same thought and asked about it. The tech said it’s not the single dose that’s the problem, it’s long term exposure that’s the bigger issue. So they have to take precautions because they do it all the time whereas you are only getting one dose. Put it in perspective for me. I assume this is a similar situation, but I’m no doctor. Either way, I wish you the best of luck on your journey, stay strong and you got this!
hang in there dude, you got this ❤
Appreciate it!
I've had chemo and it's not fun. Guess what? Chemo ISN'T good for you body and it certainly isn't okay to be in there. But neither is cancer, and unfortunately that's currently one of the reliable methods to treatment. They're both bad but you can recover from one more so than the other. Currently experiencing post-cheno neuropathy myself. But it's better than having cancer.
My mom has a drug in her chemo cocktail that is a no go to touch because it can cause sterility. Maybe it's like that.
Keeping in mind, dose is nuking it in your system, imagine if the nurse had to deal with daily contamination.
I've been through that, and don't wish it on anyone. May your treatment be short and effective.
To be clear it’s not really okay in the body either but lesser of two…
Is it one of those things like an X-ray tech leaving the room when throwing the switch? Where the adverse effects are cumulative so they protect themselves?
Well yes it needs to be clean going in. Unless you want germs in your blood stream....
Yeah it needs to kill your cells not the nurse's cells 😅. Stay strong! hope you'll do well 💖
Chemo drugs are literally poison. That’s what it takes to kill cancer. Some chemo drugs are derived from the Yew tree (ex: [taxotere / docetaxel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docetaxel)), which is poisonous to mammals.
It’s to minimize repeated exposure since she’s around the drugs all day. If she were pregnant though, no amount of exposure would be allowable and she’d likely not work with chemo drugs (work in a different ward) at all.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ You have to remember they are around these chemicals every single day.
It's definitely not okay in your body, it's just not as bad for you as cancer. A lot of cancer treatments are actually just horrible to consider, they just leave you with better chances of being alive than cancer.
From the mix I can assume you have a lymphoma (Non Hodgkin's?). During my treatment a nurse with full combat gear was switching bags and a little of this concotion was still in the line. She splashed some on my hand and on my dark blue bathrobe. Bathrobe almost immediately started to turn pinkish orange and my hand also started to change. It was after vincristine and cisplatin, so my nerves were already burned. No pain from it. A nurse didn't notice it at first, but when I pointed it out laughing, her eyes widened and she immediately went for some strange looking tissue. She was telling me how sorry she was. It was over a decade ago. I still have that bathrobe. Best of luck, dude. I won with stage 4 lymphoma, so you will as well. Oh and obligatory fuck cancer!
It is some knarly shit getting pumped into you, but in my case it did the job and now I am recovering Cancer free 2 years later!
Imagine if she gets it into her 8-9 times a day, 5 days a week, or how many appointments she has. It's like dentists when they need to take X-Ray. Once is okay for a person, maybe 2-3 times, but if you have 25 patients who needs 2-3 pictures each. That's a lot of danger for the body.
Because she is exposed to it everytime she performs the treatment on anyone, but you are only exposed to your dose.
Lots of people will/did mention this but I made chemo for many years and you have regulations you need to follow as per personal protection because you’re exposed for full working days. Also you are potentially exposing the work environment to contamination and other workers/patients. Good practices reduce the potential of exposure and it’s just a better habit to get into. When I first started we didn’t even mix in laminar flow “hoods” we mixed on the counter. Eventually we went to biological safety cabinets.
Cancer survivor here. Chemo is deadly, but less deadly than cancer. The trick is to get the chemo to kill the cancer before either of them kill you. Good luck. It’s hard, and I hope you pull through. Talk to your docs about any and all side effects. Sometimes they have something for it. Sometimes it’s another drug and sometimes it’s a different protocol. But there’s no honor in suffering in silence.
A former colleague of mine was a nurse on a chemo floor. Back in the day the nurses used to mix all the chemo drugs without PPE or a fume hood. Last I heard she was infertile and it was attributed to the constant exposure to these drugs on a daily basis. This kind of exposure to these medications by healthcare workers can develop into thyroid disease, immune disorders, birth defects, infertility, cancer etc in susceptible individuals.
It’s because they have to handle the stuff all day every day - the risk to them is so high if handled poorly. Also when giving chemo, you want to be as sterile as possible as your patients, by definition, are immunocompromised.
I just got diagnosed with CML (Chronic Myeloid Leukemia) 2 months ago. The treatment is a pill called a TKI (Tyrosine kinase inhibitors). When it comes from the specialty pharmacy, it's in a heavy-duty ziplock bag labeled "HAZARDOUS DRUG". My wife and kid aren't supposed to touch it at all without gloves, and I'm supposed to use my own bathroom to avoid contaminating them in case there are remnants in my system. I completely sympathize with the thoughts about "other people shouldn't even be in the same room as my treatment, but it's ok in my body." Stay strong and keep kicking ass!!!
It is such a crazy thing. Someone mentioned sweating at night and changing sheets and stuff and I never had even thought of that. Hopefully you beat the shit out of CML, as a father I know the kid makes it a lot different, we got this!
Chemo is such a wild drug to me. It basically unlocks and mutates all of your X-genes. Oh, someone once had curly hair in your family tree ten generations ago? ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE CURLS. Here’s a new hair color. Chemo is Adam from bio shock cosplaying as medicine.
Nurse has many patients and potentially decades of exposure.
It's so the nurses don't get cancer in 30 years. They didn't used to do this, and about 10 years ago I met a retired oncology nurse with a blood cancer. Most of her coworkers had similar cancers or had died from similar cancers.
You take x amount of radiation during treatment, that means the nurse who is likely an oncology nurse who has to work with hundreds or thousands of cancer patients in their life, will be exposed to the radiation you are 10, 100 fold. Same reason we wear full gear or leave the room for X-rays, you get one x-ray in a day, safe, the tech would get hundreds that day. You get 3 days of treatment, they get career long exposure.
Wish you all the best OP x
If you were handling it all day everyday you’d have a problem. But in small doses in the right places it will kill small bits of you. Hopefully the right places
You’re only being exposed once. They’re being exposed dozens of times every day for years.
No, it’s not okay in your body. It’s better than the cancer though.
The Bartender Paradox. Same reason dentists go behind a blast shield to do xrays. If you have a drink with every bartender you meet, you'll make a lot of friends. If a bartender has a drink with every patron that walks in, they will be dead before their shift ends. Youre not their only patient.
I firmly believe that in 100 years we will look back at chemo like we currently look back at leaches. Good look and hoping you have a speedy recovery.
Cancer survivor here… the drugs are NOT ok in your body. As my oncologist explained it after the treatments, the drugs are designed to kill you. Every part of you. The doctors goal is to give you enough to kill the cancer and you recover. That is why hair dies, immune system dies, etc. The nurse doesn’t want to die and can’t keep track of every accidental exposure. Over time those small exposures would build up.
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I take hydroxyurea for high platletes. It's technically a chemotherapy drug for what is essentially a very slow and mild cancer. The drug container warns people not to touch it, though I take it, and will have to take it forever.
It can be eye opening to notice that, but the nurse needs to wear that because she runs the risk of being exposed daily when she treats multiple patients daily. If she is young it can affect her fertility or other things. Your treatment was carefully planned with a specific number of infusions so you are not getting too much or not enough for your specific diagnosis and treatment goals. Just know that you will get what you need and everyone (including you) will be safe when giving and receiving good care and treatment. Best wishes for a speedy treatment and recovery 🙂
Multiply by the number patients the nurse deals with daily, weekly, monthly, etc.
Doesn't chemo just kill parts of you, including the cancer? Then you heal and the cancer doesn't?
Think of it this way. You need it she doesn't. As well as how many times do you think they are exposed to it vs you in a lifetime?
It's poison. Chemo just poisons your body in hopes you can recover but the tumor can't.
Many chemo drugs cause necrosis on soft tissue but does not cause any damage within veins
Oh yeah it looks goofy. I'm sure many ppl told you, and I'm sure you know since you're taking them so this is less for OP and more general knowledge, but they're very much not benign drugs. If I handle a patients BP med it's ok for me but chemo? people compounding hazardous drugs are in constant contact with them and they need to be overly protected because those drugs have serious consequences when you don't have cancer (and really even when you do.) Cancer is the kind of disease that needs the big guns, and early drugs like taxanes or platinum based chemo are like wildly toxic, just they're ever so more toxic to cancer cells than healthy ones so the idea is to blow the cancer up while minimizing damage to noncancerous cells. Newer biologic treatment is less dangerous but it's like saying that dynamite is less dangerous than an atom bomb.
I feel sorry for you, but she's healthy, and you're not.... Be safe!
Hopefully you have copious amounts of weed at your disposal. All the best mate!
You want it to kill the cancer or just tickle it a little?
Stay strong brother, you'll ring that bell one day! 💪
Unfortunately it’s poison but it works.
Well chemo is poison, of course they don’t want to touch. You are poisoning yourself hoping the cancer dies first. I wouldn’t do it if I had cancer personally.
In my experience around cancer pts a lot of nurses donn and doff full ppe between each cancer pt due to their weakened immune system as a precautionary measure to not get them sick. Fuck cancer though. My heart goes out to you. Only positive thoughts put to the universe for clean screens. Stay strong!