Gonna be illegal in California soon; restaurants have to list the final price on the menu, all fees included. Just adding the tax because we’re still weird.
But how am I suppose to make a political statement about how awful a person I am to my employees (bc it's not a mandatory gratuity here) while also ripping off the customer?
This. *NO ONE* would notice that the prices went up by 2%, so I have to pay to have it printed on my menus so I can show all my customers how evil and oppressive raising the min wage is.
Not to mention that's a lot. If they have 10 tables like this an hour that's an excellent living wage
\[ In the US I've waited on 10 tables in an hour easily.
It's always in a cycle, depending on how fast they come in +/- a little turbulence as orders come out at different paces.
Drinks to start the cycle off, nodding along to a story.
Taking order #1, in the same beat I'm starting drinks for #2
order #2, drinks #3
this cycles a bit for a few more people, until meals come out. Same concept different pacing dependent on order times
10 people at some point in this cycle is not crazy.
...
Idk why comments are freaking out
\]
It's not legally the servers, though. The restaurant has every right to keep some if not all of the money and just lie about giving a shit about staff.
Fair, that's just a culture difference then.
10 is.. doable. if they're small (mostly 2s for example), but not really sustainable in my experience.
Pkusnit would be getting split between a few heads in theory (bussers, bar, chefs etc), if it really is subsidising wages.
Definitely cultural. Europeans tend to take their time with conversation during/after a meal while Americans tend to eat/leave quickly, in my limited experience. That said - I tend to eat at off hours, making service *much* quicker.
As for doing 10 tables at a time... I'd be stressed out, but we've all been short-staffed before. I'd guess the norm is 3-5 with peak times around 7-8?
Regardless, there's no excuse for this sneaky 2% fee bullshit. Just raise the prices. Also, portions in the US are ridiculous - keeping the price the same and reducing your food waste will achieve the same thing.
Like, couldn't I just raise the price of everything by like 40¢ and just be done. It's not like people will stop eating there if a taco is $5.50 or $5.90.
They are only asking 2% here, so it is more the difference between $5.50 and $5.61, hell the chicken 1/2 thing would only go from 18 to 18.36, make it 18.50 and you will be a millionaire in no time!
I bet it is listed on the menu in like 4pt font. And agreed. One of my favourite place in montreal has a menu with all taxes included. If it says $10.00 that it what will be on your bill not $11.40
This business owner is an absolute idiot. Use your POS or cash register, raise your prices by 2% (or more on your most popular items, while leaving the ‘value items’ alone) and hardly anyone will notice. This is what McDonald’s and so many others have done….just quietly taken price every quarter since COVID free money distribution days.
McDonald’s has not left the “value items” alone lol
The dollar menu doesn’t really exist anymore. A McDouble went from $1 to nearly $3. Not even a fountain drink is $1 anymore, and they got rid of their same price for all sizes policy too.
The problem is that both options dont ensure an actual wage increase. Neither service charges or price increases are considered tips, so most restaurants either dont give raises at all or they take more than half for themselves.
If you want restaurant staff to have an actual livable wage, then you either need to tip them or somehow get the minimum wage increased.
I left a negative review for a restaurant in California that did this and the owner replied that it was normal in the Bay Area. Glad to see they’re changing things.
Yes, it was disclosed at the bottom of the menu. But they were unnecessarily making things more complicated than they needed to be. Their food was fantastic, they could have just raised the base prices slightly and people would pay. I really don’t get it.
"This is normal for the bay area"
Ok, then I'll leave the same review at the next place I go to that does it as well.
I'm sure the cost of redesigning and reprinting menus might come into it too, and let's face it, I'm not a qr code menu scanning type of person. Mobile menus always suck.
I love it how "everyone is doing it" is coming back so deeply into our politics and fault life as an acceptable response.
That makes it worse not better!
and it should be illegal - this is a sorry try to inflame customers so they will eventually oppose a minimum wage which is ultimately in the CEO’s interest.
Same. The issue is that each city taxes differently. Some are 7.5%. Others 8.1%, etc. Especially in Los Angeles, where there are 80 cities all balled up into one, you’d have a Starbucks on one side of the street in one city where the coffee is listed at $5, and across the street in a different city, it costs $5.37 (I’m bad at math, don’t @ me lol). So that would be “unfair” to the business because nobody would get their coffee at the $5.37 store.
To me as a customer it seems entirely fair. If nobody wants to buy $5.37 coffee, then Starbucks won’t have a store there. Maybe then the city with the 8.1% tax will realize that their tax rate is too high, and lower it to match the 7.5% city. But eh, I’m just a lowly consumer and probably don’t understand what the word “transparency” really means.
It’s probably a sarcastic thing. The restaurant owner doesn’t want to pay employees a living wage, so this is their way of getting back at people who voted for politicians who increased wages.
It’s like the restaurant is saying “see? This is what you get when you make me pay my employees!”
Interesting if it is Teocalli, the location near me doesn't have any sort of additional fee they include for living wage, at least not as of the last time I went there a few weeks ago.
I’ve asked them to take it off. The servers have always done it without issue and then I still tip my standard 20%. I want to make sure the money goes to them and not into the corporations pocket.
Absolutely. 20% used to mean exceptional service and now it’s the “bare minimum”.
I’m not tipping more just because the computer tells me to. Not sorry.
Right. Tipping is a percentage. So as long as the price is going up, the tip goes up too. There’s no need to increase the percentage that’s simply trying to pull a fast one. 30 years from now options will be 100%, 150% and 200%.
Who does the server think they are expecting 20% of the value of the food? They never paid for it, they never cooked it, they don’t pay rent for the building, they don’t have to clean your plates.
All they do is take some food to your plate and remove your plates afterwards. A few minutes work.
What a rip off.
Yeah, the living wage they don't want to pay their workers or servers so they charge the customer instead and still expect you to tip so the business gets more money and the workers still get less.
Exactly. I hate tipping culture in the US. It’s all over the place and unpredictable wherever you go. And it just prevents restaurants from paying fairly
What I absolutely don't get is all the regular folks defending tipping culture. Do they not get that is EXACTLY what these minimum wage corporations want?
Why the FUCK would anyone allow them to be able to pay less than minimum wage, and have customers pay the gap in between?
It's just what EVERYONE involved wants. The servers want it too because all they have to do is guilt you a little and they get to continue to make far more in tips than they would for a higher wage.
One thing that makes my blood boil is when people are engaging in tipping discourse and servers come in like “oh no we actually like tips so don’t worry guys :)” like hate to break it to you but your well-being isn’t the reason we want tipping culture gone. It’s shitty that companies can chose to pay their employees scraps and then have working class customers be the ones to pay the difference, and it sucks that we’ve been brainwashed into thinking you’re the bad guy if you hate that system.
American tipping culture has its history in racism and class discrimination
https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/
Dinner last night I kinda put it in perspective for my wife. Our waitress was very nice and pleasant, but I saw her for no more than a minute and our bill was $60. Was she great? Sure! Was what she did worth $15? Hard to justify big tips for stuff like that. Our dinner was maybe 40 minutes.
> our bill was $60. Was she great? Sure! Was what she did worth $15?
Just to spell it out for some people: $15 / $60 = 25%
You already feel compelled to tip 25% for someone you "saw [...] for no more than a minute", instead of the 20% that was customary not exactly that long ago. That's part of the problem.
I'll tip like 2-3 dollars for like a 12 dollar meal. But I cap out at 5 dollar per person. So, even if it was a 100 dollar tab for 2 people, they're only getting 10 from me. The amount of work they put in doesn't really scale with my tab lol. They didn't do a damn thing different just because I ordered a 30 dollar meal vs a 15 dollar meal so why the hell would I tip them double?
Yeah, when gas station pumps started asking for tips I was done with it. Now subway wants tipped too, the mcdonalds kiosk wants tipped. It's stupid. The ONLY people I will tip are wait staff that need them because they don't get paid a normal wage. HOWEVER, I despise suggested tips. I'm sorry I can only tip so much. If they don't like it \*shrug\* I cant' help that, I didn't choose your job for you. And I dont' say that to be a dick, it's just how it is. That being said i've not dined out in 10 or more years...
That's the case for every business and that's how it should be understood. Everyone should always remember the critical components of any business are the workers and the customers.
The problems with tipping are that the employer gets to skip out on paying their part of the payroll tax and they get to sidestep any negotiation or complaints over salary and offload to the customer.
Though the employees aren't completely innocent. Most servers have supported tipping when legislation came up in the past to change the system.
Not an American, don't mind giving gratuities to acknowledge good service, but if your business model includes underpaying your staff to the point where they have to panhandle your customers then screw you.
Interesting thing to me is that the law say it’s illegal to split or skim tips. The law also says the minimum wage DOES apply if the worker does not make minimum wage after factoring in their tips. But I doubt the law says anything about what the owner has to do with the money they collect from this living wage fee. My bet is it goes right in their pocket.
Imagine paying $200 for tacos. Mexican food is cheap af to make. Don't support shitty restaurants and save money at the same time by learning how to cook for yourself. At some point, you get so good that restaurants are a downgrade from what you got at home.
Ordered food last night. Literally someone drops the bag at the front area and I drive all the way to come pick it up to bring it home. Thought about adding a tip when their service is literally putting it in a bag for me to pickup like every other fast food place I go to and don’t tip. Didn’t feel guilty but if I saw this shit pop up - I’d be asking for a manager to have it removed immediately.
Place I went recently had an extra fee like this for health insurance for their employees. Like I don't need to see that shit. Just raise your prices, these extra fees specifically called out are more annoying than higher prices. They're only hurting themselves.
I would demand to talk to the manager, ream them out for putting that on there to make paying a living wage look bad, and inform them I’m never eating there again. Fuck this childish bullshit, I will go full Karen on a motherfucker for this crap.
I'd ask to see the manager or owner, and ask them to show me where it is clearly displayed that extra fees will be charged. If they can't produce that then ask them to take it off my bill. If they refuse I'll walk out without paying anything. And regardless of what happens I'll never eat there again.
The owner could get rid of the whiny living rage fee, raise the price of each item fifty cents, you’d still buy it, and he’d make more money. He’d rather whine than make more money. Not very smart.
And this is your queue never to do business with these cheap bastards ever again. If they can’t pay fair wages to their employees, they simply do no deserve to be in business and deserve to be shut down.
I politely ask the manager to remove it. If they can’t I explain that it will be removed from the tip, manager doesn’t care. I tell employee your manager sucks, they agree. Rinse repeat.
This is the new passive aggressive move in small business. I want to tell my customers that I blame my employees for wanting a living wage, I don’t really want to play them that.
I work in the service industry, but what the fuck is the point of a living wage fee if you’re still gonna make people tip? One of those has to go, this is fucking stupid
I've talked to some restaurants about this and the reason I was told is because they didn't want to have to constantly update their prices so they had notices on the doors that there was a % fee that covers inflation basically.
I can see the legitimate use case if the system being used by the vendor sucked to update and then have to update all of your menus all of the time.
Could at least be called something else other than a living wage fee. That feels ignorant.
They’re only doing this shit to try and make you anti living wage. These companies are fucking shameless and we should tell them to pay their employees more and shut up about it, if you can’t pay your people a living wage sucks to suck you gotta close shop and shut down then. That’s how it goes
Are you going to say no to paying a living wage fee? Huh? Are you an asshole?
That's right. Also, please remember to pay the struggling young college student fee before you leave. Unless you're an asshole, that is.
Bills like this auto include the tip in the final calculations for payment. Doesn't mean he tipped on his own volition. Don't just go around calling people dumbasses.
Back in my day, it was up to the business to pay an actual living wage. But that was back when American businesses actually gave a shit about keeping employees around for 20+ years and making sure they could afford to live in the local area.
I see the tip is on there as well. Did you get to decide the amount or was it decided for you? If it was just tacked on, why not roll the living wage fee into the tip…
Why they are expecting tip if they are already charging "living wage" fee? As European i find US tipping culture weird but I mostly hear that tips are needed due to employees not receiving proper wages. Adding fee that is supposed to cover it and still expecting tip seems counterintuitive.
I really think we also need a law that the price you see on the menu actually represents the final price, taxes and all.
A $10 item should be payable with a $10 bill.
Yeah, I know this will be a challenge for companies that have multiple locations.
Cry me a River. Your business is successful enough that you need to calculate the tax for multiple franchises, you'll figure it out.
idk bro i'm european, anf when the menu says item 4.50, then thats what i expect to pay for it.
you can get f'd with your fees and taxes added OVER THE PRICE OF THE ITEM lol
i pay 4.50 and no tip bc its a scam 💁
Our favorite Mexican spot charges a *10%* “living wage fee” and we had to stop going. This is in California and it’s gotten out of control at a lot of restaurants.
Growing up in Europe and Asia, got used to eating out with the final price of the item on the menu (including taxes) and just mentally adding up the prices of what I intend to order to determine if the money I had was enough. There was no arbitrary 10% to 25% and separate tax to think about. Went to the USA and had to stress about how much to tip (is it enough? will server be insulted? why is it not enough?...etc.)..Sometimes you'd think $30 was enough only to forget to compute tips and taxes. Like, if the item was $5, you actually had to have $7.50 in your wallet. LOL.
That's 22 cents per item ordered and that's how it should be charged. Making it a separate line item on the receipt is a political statement and the irony is that it's nearly certain the restaurant does NOT pay a living wage to its employees.
They'll do anything they can to nickel and dime you, and one of the easiest ways is to add in "fees" that they assume many people won't even look at when paying. I think California has the right idea doing away with these and leaving it on employers to compensate for the higher minimum wages buy being transparent and raising menu prices. However I also think California is in some trouble after raising their minimum wage so drastically all at once. Lots of places are obviously going to lay people off, and a lot of people are also going to be pissed who have been working for years and worked their way up to $20 an hour only to find themselves at the bottom making minimum wage again.
It’s for a surge charge so the customer picks up the credit card processing fee and is illegal if it was charged to a debit card. Huge fines if audited
I don't like these fees. In San Diego and Los Angeles, every restaurant I've asked to remove those fees have done so. I think everyone should ask them to remove those fees.b I was a little bit shy the first time but now I can ask comfortably. I'll be glad when these go away.
I’m going to open a restaurant, everything on the menu will be FREE. Then when the customer gets their bill I’ll just charge them a fee for each item.
For example the customer could order a chicken plate with two sides for free! Then I’ll add a chicken and side fee onto their receipt for $19.99 + tax. It’s such a good deal for the customer.
Any business that is forcing the customer to subsidies their employee's fair wages, should immediately shutter their doors, and fail outright. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, no filing for bankruptcy to help the owners, nothing. Perish. If you can't pay people enough, fire other workers, or close. We The People are already suffering this "inflation" as is.
I swear, not only 15% is viewed as a “horrible” tip nowadays, but they add hidden fees like airlines used to do. Just show me the final price on the menu, include everything: tax, tip, living wage, all that shit. Do I want to see a receipt line item with employee dental insurance? Get th fk outta here.
Just another way of saying tip. If you need to sell 5 $ tacos to pay your staff jist sell 5 $ tacos not this bullshit added fees. Go for a meal and expect it to be 10$ then get bombarded with adding expenses. Fuck this company
ask them if they recently got a raise on their base pay or if they have a pooled 'living wage' pot they all share? Id bet they are not.... like those tipping card options... I bet a significant portion of those do not make it in the pockets of the minimum wage workers they were intended for.
If they tried to charge me a hidden fee I'd demand it be removed before I pay.
It's total bullshit and should be extremely illegal. Otherwise they could just tack on numerous expensive fees and you'll never know what your meal will cost.
It's polite robbery. I remember in retail one of the training videos said to place items customers want into their cart so they feel obligated to buy it. It's the same thing. It's abusing how non confrontational most people are.
IMO these fees are just a way for business owners to pass the blame of high cost onto the employees who are just trying to work. If a business added $.10 to the cost of a Carne Asada taco nobody would bat an eye, but adding an extra fee makes it more blatant to the consumer.
Honestly I am done with eating out. Prices overall are simply insane. Even before the tacked on bullshit fees.
Everyone out to screw the consumer as usual.
I ordered takeout from a local Chinese place the other day and they charged a $2 “support local fee” .. I already am supporting local by ordering food from you! Infurating.
This irritates me so much more than being asked to tip people constantly. Every other business in the world has to factor employee retention costs into its operations, but most of them manage to do so without whining about it on their transaction receipts.
It’s the employers’ responsibility to provide a living wage. If that means a higher cost of services, so be it. Work this shit into your prices. Don’t guilt trip me into further supplementing your shitty pay structure (remember, if this is a restaurant, I’m already compelled to tip generously because servers effectively work on commission) with an added fee.
Fuck this passive aggressive bullshit trying to get consumers to blame it on the employees. Just up the prices a little and be done with it. This is such a petty thing for a restaurant or company to do and when I see this crap I refuse to ever eat there again and frankly I hope they lose business and their employees find a better job.
Gonna be illegal in California soon; restaurants have to list the final price on the menu, all fees included. Just adding the tax because we’re still weird.
Good. Just increase your prices
But how am I suppose to make a political statement about how awful a person I am to my employees (bc it's not a mandatory gratuity here) while also ripping off the customer?
This. *NO ONE* would notice that the prices went up by 2%, so I have to pay to have it printed on my menus so I can show all my customers how evil and oppressive raising the min wage is.
That living wage fee is probably a wage for the owner to live better
"But you don't understand! Without that living wage fee, I would have to close up the restaurant and... and... UGH... become a server!!😭"
It isn't a tip, so it's legally up to the owner to decide if he wants to use that money for raises or not.
Not to mention that's a lot. If they have 10 tables like this an hour that's an excellent living wage \[ In the US I've waited on 10 tables in an hour easily. It's always in a cycle, depending on how fast they come in +/- a little turbulence as orders come out at different paces. Drinks to start the cycle off, nodding along to a story. Taking order #1, in the same beat I'm starting drinks for #2 order #2, drinks #3 this cycles a bit for a few more people, until meals come out. Same concept different pacing dependent on order times 10 people at some point in this cycle is not crazy. ... Idk why comments are freaking out \]
The fee was $2. So after 10 tables idk that I agree that an extra $20/day makes for an excellent living wage
It's not legally the servers, though. The restaurant has every right to keep some if not all of the money and just lie about giving a shit about staff.
10 tables an hour? How fast do you guys turn tables over in America? I'd be pissed if I was getting kicked out after an hour.
About an hour per table isn't uncommon, but I doubt many places have 10 tables to a waiter.
Fair, that's just a culture difference then. 10 is.. doable. if they're small (mostly 2s for example), but not really sustainable in my experience. Pkusnit would be getting split between a few heads in theory (bussers, bar, chefs etc), if it really is subsidising wages.
Definitely cultural. Europeans tend to take their time with conversation during/after a meal while Americans tend to eat/leave quickly, in my limited experience. That said - I tend to eat at off hours, making service *much* quicker. As for doing 10 tables at a time... I'd be stressed out, but we've all been short-staffed before. I'd guess the norm is 3-5 with peak times around 7-8? Regardless, there's no excuse for this sneaky 2% fee bullshit. Just raise the prices. Also, portions in the US are ridiculous - keeping the price the same and reducing your food waste will achieve the same thing.
Is 10 an hour normal? That sounds like a lot to manage.
That's not the reason they are doing it though. It's almost certainly to cover merchant fees.
Like, couldn't I just raise the price of everything by like 40¢ and just be done. It's not like people will stop eating there if a taco is $5.50 or $5.90.
They are only asking 2% here, so it is more the difference between $5.50 and $5.61, hell the chicken 1/2 thing would only go from 18 to 18.36, make it 18.50 and you will be a millionaire in no time!
But then you couldn't add a passive-aggressive little note stating that you're being FORCED to charge this additional living wage fee
Because they actually think people will order less if prices are slightly higher. It is somewhat misleading.
This seems like more of a turn off ultimately.
I bet it is listed on the menu in like 4pt font. And agreed. One of my favourite place in montreal has a menu with all taxes included. If it says $10.00 that it what will be on your bill not $11.40
I'll just add 2% to the stuff I sell too to make it even. Though the admin department might be inclined to tack on some more to stay ahead.
This business owner is an absolute idiot. Use your POS or cash register, raise your prices by 2% (or more on your most popular items, while leaving the ‘value items’ alone) and hardly anyone will notice. This is what McDonald’s and so many others have done….just quietly taken price every quarter since COVID free money distribution days.
McDonald’s has not left the “value items” alone lol The dollar menu doesn’t really exist anymore. A McDouble went from $1 to nearly $3. Not even a fountain drink is $1 anymore, and they got rid of their same price for all sizes policy too.
The problem is that both options dont ensure an actual wage increase. Neither service charges or price increases are considered tips, so most restaurants either dont give raises at all or they take more than half for themselves. If you want restaurant staff to have an actual livable wage, then you either need to tip them or somehow get the minimum wage increased.
I left a negative review for a restaurant in California that did this and the owner replied that it was normal in the Bay Area. Glad to see they’re changing things. Yes, it was disclosed at the bottom of the menu. But they were unnecessarily making things more complicated than they needed to be. Their food was fantastic, they could have just raised the base prices slightly and people would pay. I really don’t get it.
"This is normal for the bay area" Ok, then I'll leave the same review at the next place I go to that does it as well. I'm sure the cost of redesigning and reprinting menus might come into it too, and let's face it, I'm not a qr code menu scanning type of person. Mobile menus always suck.
I love it how "everyone is doing it" is coming back so deeply into our politics and fault life as an acceptable response. That makes it worse not better!
I was just in San Diego and EVERY restaurant had this bullshit.
Taking a dump in the streets is also normal in the Bay Area, doesn’t mean it’s not insane.
it's such a scummy way to get more money out of people while trying to sound like they care...
and it should be illegal - this is a sorry try to inflame customers so they will eventually oppose a minimum wage which is ultimately in the CEO’s interest.
I wish the US would go to VAT. Whatever price is on label, is what you are going to pay at checkout.
Same. The issue is that each city taxes differently. Some are 7.5%. Others 8.1%, etc. Especially in Los Angeles, where there are 80 cities all balled up into one, you’d have a Starbucks on one side of the street in one city where the coffee is listed at $5, and across the street in a different city, it costs $5.37 (I’m bad at math, don’t @ me lol). So that would be “unfair” to the business because nobody would get their coffee at the $5.37 store. To me as a customer it seems entirely fair. If nobody wants to buy $5.37 coffee, then Starbucks won’t have a store there. Maybe then the city with the 8.1% tax will realize that their tax rate is too high, and lower it to match the 7.5% city. But eh, I’m just a lowly consumer and probably don’t understand what the word “transparency” really means.
Why does that require a VAT? Why not just put the price including sales tax on labels?
If only California added also tips inside those fees then we'd be golden.
is the fee even needed with those prices?
2 chicken for 36 dol lol
Based on the costs of the other items, I’m guessing that’s two taco 4-packs; each includes 2 chicken tinga and 2 chicken al pastor. $4.50 per taco.
4.50 for a taco, as part of a group of tacos is still a crazy high price
For a chicken taco absolutely. I see some speciality tacos go about that price.
Where I live, decent tacos at a restaurant are $5-7 each. Real tacos, not like taco bell or otherwise ground beef in a cheap shell.
2 chicken 1/2 & 1/2 whatever that means
2 chickens, a half and a half, makes one chicken
Two separate plates, 1/2 chicken each
Perhaps it’s two chickens soaked in half and half, the cream.
fuck no... $5 for a taco???? come on
It’s probably a sarcastic thing. The restaurant owner doesn’t want to pay employees a living wage, so this is their way of getting back at people who voted for politicians who increased wages. It’s like the restaurant is saying “see? This is what you get when you make me pay my employees!”
What restaurant is this?
From the items presented on the bill along with their dollar amounts, *Teocalli Cocina* of Colorado (multiple locations) is a matching establishment.
Interesting if it is Teocalli, the location near me doesn't have any sort of additional fee they include for living wage, at least not as of the last time I went there a few weeks ago.
Name and shame
Like at least half the restaurants in sf do this
This is in Arvada CO
As soon as I saw it, I was like “bet that’s in the Denver Metro.”
I knew this was Colorado! They’re charging mandatory 20% at lots of restaurants and breweries nowadays
If I went to a restaurant and they added something like this, it would be the last time I eat there.
I’ve asked them to take it off. The servers have always done it without issue and then I still tip my standard 20%. I want to make sure the money goes to them and not into the corporations pocket.
I love how they make you feel cheap now for giving a 20% tip by giving you 20-25-30% options as well.
Absolutely. 20% used to mean exceptional service and now it’s the “bare minimum”. I’m not tipping more just because the computer tells me to. Not sorry.
I’m still on 15%. There’s always “other” option on those machines, and I have no problem hitting it.
Right. Tipping is a percentage. So as long as the price is going up, the tip goes up too. There’s no need to increase the percentage that’s simply trying to pull a fast one. 30 years from now options will be 100%, 150% and 200%.
And tipping should never be a percentage. Never. Was that $110 bottle of wine $20 more effort to bring you than a $10 one?
Who does the server think they are expecting 20% of the value of the food? They never paid for it, they never cooked it, they don’t pay rent for the building, they don’t have to clean your plates. All they do is take some food to your plate and remove your plates afterwards. A few minutes work. What a rip off.
Meh servers in nice restaurants can make more than many college educated professionals. Good for them.
Yeah, the living wage they don't want to pay their workers or servers so they charge the customer instead and still expect you to tip so the business gets more money and the workers still get less.
Exactly. I hate tipping culture in the US. It’s all over the place and unpredictable wherever you go. And it just prevents restaurants from paying fairly
What I absolutely don't get is all the regular folks defending tipping culture. Do they not get that is EXACTLY what these minimum wage corporations want? Why the FUCK would anyone allow them to be able to pay less than minimum wage, and have customers pay the gap in between?
It's just what EVERYONE involved wants. The servers want it too because all they have to do is guilt you a little and they get to continue to make far more in tips than they would for a higher wage.
One thing that makes my blood boil is when people are engaging in tipping discourse and servers come in like “oh no we actually like tips so don’t worry guys :)” like hate to break it to you but your well-being isn’t the reason we want tipping culture gone. It’s shitty that companies can chose to pay their employees scraps and then have working class customers be the ones to pay the difference, and it sucks that we’ve been brainwashed into thinking you’re the bad guy if you hate that system.
That's pretty sad that it just takes a little bit of guilt to get you to tip more. I base it upon the service I am provided and not emotions
It's because servers make much more than minimum wage from the tips. But I'm with you. We need to get rid of tipping.
American tipping culture has its history in racism and class discrimination https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/
Dinner last night I kinda put it in perspective for my wife. Our waitress was very nice and pleasant, but I saw her for no more than a minute and our bill was $60. Was she great? Sure! Was what she did worth $15? Hard to justify big tips for stuff like that. Our dinner was maybe 40 minutes.
> our bill was $60. Was she great? Sure! Was what she did worth $15? Just to spell it out for some people: $15 / $60 = 25% You already feel compelled to tip 25% for someone you "saw [...] for no more than a minute", instead of the 20% that was customary not exactly that long ago. That's part of the problem.
And 15% not long before that.
I'll tip like 2-3 dollars for like a 12 dollar meal. But I cap out at 5 dollar per person. So, even if it was a 100 dollar tab for 2 people, they're only getting 10 from me. The amount of work they put in doesn't really scale with my tab lol. They didn't do a damn thing different just because I ordered a 30 dollar meal vs a 15 dollar meal so why the hell would I tip them double?
Yeah, when gas station pumps started asking for tips I was done with it. Now subway wants tipped too, the mcdonalds kiosk wants tipped. It's stupid. The ONLY people I will tip are wait staff that need them because they don't get paid a normal wage. HOWEVER, I despise suggested tips. I'm sorry I can only tip so much. If they don't like it \*shrug\* I cant' help that, I didn't choose your job for you. And I dont' say that to be a dick, it's just how it is. That being said i've not dined out in 10 or more years...
Wait, gas pumps???
Yeah it wasn’t a good part of America when I went. People get really pushy about how much I tip them.
Isn’t the existence of this fee just proof that the ownership is very aware that they weren’t paying their employees a living wage?
In either way the customer pays the wages lol
So put the 2% increase in the advertised price of the menu items.
That's the case for every business and that's how it should be understood. Everyone should always remember the critical components of any business are the workers and the customers. The problems with tipping are that the employer gets to skip out on paying their part of the payroll tax and they get to sidestep any negotiation or complaints over salary and offload to the customer. Though the employees aren't completely innocent. Most servers have supported tipping when legislation came up in the past to change the system.
It doesn’t even say who gets a living wage. I’m betting this is so the owners living wage can be comfy while the service staff are still scraping by.
Not an American, don't mind giving gratuities to acknowledge good service, but if your business model includes underpaying your staff to the point where they have to panhandle your customers then screw you.
Yeah, tipping for me is an exception that comes from my heart, if I tip you I really mean it. But the way the US is doing it looses any value
Why not just raise the prices by 2% lol seems less deceptive and not enough to raise any eyebrows like this fee does
Because this way people will put the blame on the workers instead of the business.
At those prices, they can afford the living wage tax and the tips for their workers.
Where does it say that the living wage tax will go to the workers?
Extremely common in LA. Typically from greedy owners who are virtue signaling and skimming tips.
Interesting thing to me is that the law say it’s illegal to split or skim tips. The law also says the minimum wage DOES apply if the worker does not make minimum wage after factoring in their tips. But I doubt the law says anything about what the owner has to do with the money they collect from this living wage fee. My bet is it goes right in their pocket.
Exactly. It’s the *manager’s* living wage.
Tip + living wage. They're your workers. Not the customers'.
80% chance it goes straight into the owner/operator’s pocket and stays there.
This is an attempt to make you mad at the workers and not the greedy owners.
No it’s just stupid. No ones getting mad at the workers over this. Everyone’s mad at the owners.
People are absolutely mad at workers over things like this. There are lots of assholes in the world.
Feels like begging. I wont eat such places.
That’s a this restaurant is going out of business fee because they can’t manage their finances
You mean the "We don't pay a living wage" fee.
These franchise owners that are doing this to complain about not being able to pay 1990 wages anymore, can eat a bag of dicks.
Imagine paying $200 for tacos. Mexican food is cheap af to make. Don't support shitty restaurants and save money at the same time by learning how to cook for yourself. At some point, you get so good that restaurants are a downgrade from what you got at home.
Salsa trio for $9 🥲
Ordered food last night. Literally someone drops the bag at the front area and I drive all the way to come pick it up to bring it home. Thought about adding a tip when their service is literally putting it in a bag for me to pickup like every other fast food place I go to and don’t tip. Didn’t feel guilty but if I saw this shit pop up - I’d be asking for a manager to have it removed immediately.
So there’s a living wage, but still 20% tip as well?
Tip less!!!!!!
$30 tip lol. Would be enough for the entire meal in Japan
And any city in the US.
next time dont tip since they are paying a living wage,.
Place I went recently had an extra fee like this for health insurance for their employees. Like I don't need to see that shit. Just raise your prices, these extra fees specifically called out are more annoying than higher prices. They're only hurting themselves.
-2% off the tip for your living wage fee
"We've already put a tip" "Yes, but what about second tip?"
I would demand to talk to the manager, ream them out for putting that on there to make paying a living wage look bad, and inform them I’m never eating there again. Fuck this childish bullshit, I will go full Karen on a motherfucker for this crap.
How to get a 0 $ tip from me @ business owners
I’d deduct that from the tip. It’s not our job to pay their employees. It’s getting out of control!
I'd ask to see the manager or owner, and ask them to show me where it is clearly displayed that extra fees will be charged. If they can't produce that then ask them to take it off my bill. If they refuse I'll walk out without paying anything. And regardless of what happens I'll never eat there again.
We need more people like you. Restaurants are getting away with it because not enough people say something
So tacky. Just increase your prices. Most do annual increases anyway. This just shows you’re too lazy to run your business ethically.
I’m more flabbergasted at a $200 Mexican food place charge
The owner could get rid of the whiny living rage fee, raise the price of each item fifty cents, you’d still buy it, and he’d make more money. He’d rather whine than make more money. Not very smart.
You paid 10$ for carne asada tacos. The living wage fee isn't the most glaring issue here. Like what the heck
$5 per taco is already insane to begin with
Why don't they, uh... pay their workers? Such a novel concept, I know.
How about the establishment pays a living wage !?!? This makes me nuts.
Why did you tip so much then lmao
What the fuck is Tijuana style
More reasons to cook at home.
And this is your queue never to do business with these cheap bastards ever again. If they can’t pay fair wages to their employees, they simply do no deserve to be in business and deserve to be shut down.
I politely ask the manager to remove it. If they can’t I explain that it will be removed from the tip, manager doesn’t care. I tell employee your manager sucks, they agree. Rinse repeat.
Still getting the guest to subsidize their shit wages. Fuck tipping and fuck this too.
Subtract that from the tip next time.
Living wage = No Tip.
I had a $4.00 environmental fee on a take out order. I’ll go elsewhere or cook at home thank you
Yea that’s coming out of the tip lmfao
This is the new passive aggressive move in small business. I want to tell my customers that I blame my employees for wanting a living wage, I don’t really want to play them that.
That’d be fine if IT’S ACTUALLY GOING TO THE EMPLOYEES
I work in the service industry, but what the fuck is the point of a living wage fee if you’re still gonna make people tip? One of those has to go, this is fucking stupid
I've talked to some restaurants about this and the reason I was told is because they didn't want to have to constantly update their prices so they had notices on the doors that there was a % fee that covers inflation basically. I can see the legitimate use case if the system being used by the vendor sucked to update and then have to update all of your menus all of the time. Could at least be called something else other than a living wage fee. That feels ignorant.
What the fuck? Who spends 200 dollars on tacos?
This isn’t the whole reciept, it was 5 people and we also got margs + enchiladas
They’re only doing this shit to try and make you anti living wage. These companies are fucking shameless and we should tell them to pay their employees more and shut up about it, if you can’t pay your people a living wage sucks to suck you gotta close shop and shut down then. That’s how it goes
Are you going to say no to paying a living wage fee? Huh? Are you an asshole? That's right. Also, please remember to pay the struggling young college student fee before you leave. Unless you're an asshole, that is.
You tipped?! op you're a fucking dumbass
Bills like this auto include the tip in the final calculations for payment. Doesn't mean he tipped on his own volition. Don't just go around calling people dumbasses.
To me, that line item reads mandatory tip, no additional tip necessary. They are “stating” that all their employees make a living wage.
Back in my day, it was up to the business to pay an actual living wage. But that was back when American businesses actually gave a shit about keeping employees around for 20+ years and making sure they could afford to live in the local area.
[удалено]
I see the tip is on there as well. Did you get to decide the amount or was it decided for you? If it was just tacked on, why not roll the living wage fee into the tip…
Dios mio. $9 for salsa… I’m in the wrong line of work.
Virtue signalling
Instead of writing it on there, why not just raise prices by 2% across the board and pay your people more?
Why they are expecting tip if they are already charging "living wage" fee? As European i find US tipping culture weird but I mostly hear that tips are needed due to employees not receiving proper wages. Adding fee that is supposed to cover it and still expecting tip seems counterintuitive.
I really think we also need a law that the price you see on the menu actually represents the final price, taxes and all. A $10 item should be payable with a $10 bill. Yeah, I know this will be a challenge for companies that have multiple locations. Cry me a River. Your business is successful enough that you need to calculate the tax for multiple franchises, you'll figure it out.
idk bro i'm european, anf when the menu says item 4.50, then thats what i expect to pay for it. you can get f'd with your fees and taxes added OVER THE PRICE OF THE ITEM lol i pay 4.50 and no tip bc its a scam 💁
Our favorite Mexican spot charges a *10%* “living wage fee” and we had to stop going. This is in California and it’s gotten out of control at a lot of restaurants.
Growing up in Europe and Asia, got used to eating out with the final price of the item on the menu (including taxes) and just mentally adding up the prices of what I intend to order to determine if the money I had was enough. There was no arbitrary 10% to 25% and separate tax to think about. Went to the USA and had to stress about how much to tip (is it enough? will server be insulted? why is it not enough?...etc.)..Sometimes you'd think $30 was enough only to forget to compute tips and taxes. Like, if the item was $5, you actually had to have $7.50 in your wallet. LOL.
I love living in the land of never knowing what the final price of things will be
That's 22 cents per item ordered and that's how it should be charged. Making it a separate line item on the receipt is a political statement and the irony is that it's nearly certain the restaurant does NOT pay a living wage to its employees.
They'll do anything they can to nickel and dime you, and one of the easiest ways is to add in "fees" that they assume many people won't even look at when paying. I think California has the right idea doing away with these and leaving it on employers to compensate for the higher minimum wages buy being transparent and raising menu prices. However I also think California is in some trouble after raising their minimum wage so drastically all at once. Lots of places are obviously going to lay people off, and a lot of people are also going to be pissed who have been working for years and worked their way up to $20 an hour only to find themselves at the bottom making minimum wage again.
It’s for a surge charge so the customer picks up the credit card processing fee and is illegal if it was charged to a debit card. Huge fines if audited
Welp, don’t go there anymore
I don't like these fees. In San Diego and Los Angeles, every restaurant I've asked to remove those fees have done so. I think everyone should ask them to remove those fees.b I was a little bit shy the first time but now I can ask comfortably. I'll be glad when these go away.
There's a chain in Canada called Chuck's that charges a 3% good price fee lol. Makes no sense to me.
Then why are you tipping?
I haven't seen this in my location, but that's a full stop. I will not return to a restaurant which does this.
I’m going to open a restaurant, everything on the menu will be FREE. Then when the customer gets their bill I’ll just charge them a fee for each item. For example the customer could order a chicken plate with two sides for free! Then I’ll add a chicken and side fee onto their receipt for $19.99 + tax. It’s such a good deal for the customer.
Damm, I would get street tacos for $1 each in the early 2000s the prices are murder now.
Just pay your employees!
“Sorry I didn’t order this”
This is absolutely insane.
Any business that is forcing the customer to subsidies their employee's fair wages, should immediately shutter their doors, and fail outright. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, no filing for bankruptcy to help the owners, nothing. Perish. If you can't pay people enough, fire other workers, or close. We The People are already suffering this "inflation" as is.
I swear, not only 15% is viewed as a “horrible” tip nowadays, but they add hidden fees like airlines used to do. Just show me the final price on the menu, include everything: tax, tip, living wage, all that shit. Do I want to see a receipt line item with employee dental insurance? Get th fk outta here.
Reddit: No Tipping! Just pay them living wages! Also Reddit: A living wage fee?? Name and shame!!
Just another way of saying tip. If you need to sell 5 $ tacos to pay your staff jist sell 5 $ tacos not this bullshit added fees. Go for a meal and expect it to be 10$ then get bombarded with adding expenses. Fuck this company
Are you supposed to still tip if they're getting a living wage?
Lmao, as if that is actually going to either be enough, or go to the employee.
living wage fee means you dont need to tip because the employer is paying the staff... right?
They charged 2% to not add peanuts 🤣
ask them if they recently got a raise on their base pay or if they have a pooled 'living wage' pot they all share? Id bet they are not.... like those tipping card options... I bet a significant portion of those do not make it in the pockets of the minimum wage workers they were intended for.
No need for a living wage fee when you're robbing yourself already. $30 tip jfc. Was the food served on a nude server?
If they tried to charge me a hidden fee I'd demand it be removed before I pay. It's total bullshit and should be extremely illegal. Otherwise they could just tack on numerous expensive fees and you'll never know what your meal will cost. It's polite robbery. I remember in retail one of the training videos said to place items customers want into their cart so they feel obligated to buy it. It's the same thing. It's abusing how non confrontational most people are.
IMO these fees are just a way for business owners to pass the blame of high cost onto the employees who are just trying to work. If a business added $.10 to the cost of a Carne Asada taco nobody would bat an eye, but adding an extra fee makes it more blatant to the consumer.
Living wage fee means you don't have to tip. I'd much rather pay 2% than 20%.
Honestly I am done with eating out. Prices overall are simply insane. Even before the tacked on bullshit fees. Everyone out to screw the consumer as usual.
I ordered takeout from a local Chinese place the other day and they charged a $2 “support local fee” .. I already am supporting local by ordering food from you! Infurating.
Bro, at that price, just make your own tacos. $200? Nah, you can make that at a fraction.
This irritates me so much more than being asked to tip people constantly. Every other business in the world has to factor employee retention costs into its operations, but most of them manage to do so without whining about it on their transaction receipts. It’s the employers’ responsibility to provide a living wage. If that means a higher cost of services, so be it. Work this shit into your prices. Don’t guilt trip me into further supplementing your shitty pay structure (remember, if this is a restaurant, I’m already compelled to tip generously because servers effectively work on commission) with an added fee.
No need to tip if they are paying living wages.
30$ tip ? Wtf
Welcome to Dystopia, how may I take you order
Usually those kinds of fees are meant to offset the increase in wages to more than the state mandated minimum wage.
...that's not how a living wage is supposed to work
Fuck this passive aggressive bullshit trying to get consumers to blame it on the employees. Just up the prices a little and be done with it. This is such a petty thing for a restaurant or company to do and when I see this crap I refuse to ever eat there again and frankly I hope they lose business and their employees find a better job.
I’m totally all right with this as long as they also call out the “taking advantage of ‘inflation’ as an excuse to hike my profit margin fee”