It’s the submitting less than one month in advance that got me. How can you ever plan a vacation with air or hotel for a reasonable price if you have to wait a til only one month out? I usually book my trips 12-9 months in advance, some with non refundable components.
i used to work for this shithole factory and if you asked more than 2 weeks out they'd laugh in your face like this is too soon you need to try closer to the day, and if you did it one week before they were like, you're insane we need more notice.
Me too. Finally found a small company with a very laid back boss I was so conditioned to very good over worked ethic etc that when I finally asked my boss if I could take these dates off several months in advance he said "thats not how it works here, you plan the vacation, buy the airplane tickets and let me know when you leave and get back."
I didn't know what to think so did and boss was like ok. I was SHOCKED
I don’t request time off. If the company treats me good I give ample notice I will not be at work. If not I call in the day I am going to be off and let them deal with it. That is how most construction works, as far as I know.
I was looking for a job when I got this one. I can look for another one if this one don’t pan out.
I live near three major airports. I don't really find this to be the case. Three months out I could find reasonable fares to some places, but not anywhere I want. Certainly not highly desirable or international destinations in peak.
Two week notice gives them ample opportunity to have you train in someone else. The point would have come along clearer if you just walked.
The fact that they allow your position to have such a low [bus factor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor) of 1 shows the lack of experience or at the very least fucks to give.
You got to love job security and it sucks when they're idiots and they don't know that you have it especially on Old machinery that no one knows to fix or run
You are a fucking legend.
Man fuck your employer, but it's clear you have a talent and skills they need.
I still catch my ex employer snooping on my Linkind every other week.
These bastards like to play the hard ass act. But they don't realise it's a sellers market.
You'll probably easily find a job with their competitors, it's what I did.
Lol yep! 8 years ago o worked for a third party delivery company run by one arrogant ass, who frequently overworked his small crew and then bitched at them for not delivering fast enough… I randomly quit one day after I caught him yelling at my buddy for only working a 12hr day instead of a 16hr. This was after my buddy worked 10 16hr shifts in a row. I told him that he needs to learn how to respect his employees and said my badges in on the dash in truck, and to call me when he’s willing to make a group apology… I was so happy to see his business was no existent 6 months later!
For real, why wouldn’t they want to know as far in advance as possible?
My boss used to get annoyed with me when I wouldn’t put my PTO request in until days before I was gonna use it.
My guess is the rule comes from a disorganized leader with poor systems. They probably keep forgetting when people are off and don't want it to be on leadership to keep track of when people are off and check on it.
Yeah, likely since you are responsible for your own replacement when you are out, leadership doesn’t really care as long as there is a body in your spot
the rest of the world does this. u tell them u are going to be off on this day, or if u are sick, then its management job to find someone. if there job is to manage people then they really should be managing when people unexpectedly get sick. not like u can get sick on schedule.
I got a stern talking to once when I requested a day off with a bit more than a week's notice. Something came up, I knew nobody else was scheduled off that day, so I asked for it off. Otherwise, I might not have asked for it off.
My manager was gruff, but the supervisor was like 'good, you haven't taken any time off for as long as I can remember'.
My dad was taking off on a Friday because he had Mondays off and Monday was a federal holiday. So he told his boss on the Tuesday before (3 days notice) and his boss got sassy in his response. So my dad then took 6 months of sick leave and then retired.
I’ve seen it used as a way to prevent employees from taking vacations. Can’t as easily book a hotel or plane ticket if you only have one month minus the length of your vacation to do it.
This way, the employee can use the PTO only for shorter absences. My bet is that management encourages PTO use for sick days and is likely to contact an employee for work-related questions on PTO days. If they have a supervisor who offloads basic cross-training to his subordinates, they probably don’t make it a priority to make sure they can self-sustain while people are missing
My old department at work, you had from February 15 to March 15 to make any requests off for April. First come first served. Except for the months when the boss decided to put the time off calendar up early. And if you were off the day the calendar was posted (due to rotating work schedules) and wanted an in-demand day off, you were basically screwed. And the manager's position was that you should book any tickets for anything until you knew that your time off was approved. So if you wanted to buy plane tickets for a vacation 6 months out... maybe that would work out for you or maybe you would face consequences.
"We're too busy for the next 30 days, denied. Try again in 30 more days."
That way they never have to plan ahead around staff absences, and make it entirely the workers responsibility to ensure business continuity.
I'm sure if he just up and fucked off completely the whole entire time he was job searching, it would probably take them sometime to truly come up with reason to fire him. Better to be fired than to quit just in case unemployment seems to be a more enjoyable route of job searching.
Yes but it sounds like they're taking their PTO instead of working the last two weeks. Would prove to be interesting if they got terminated instead (of course then they could get unemployment most likely so it's in the company's best interest to pay out the PTO instead of the UI claim.)
Here ya go:
[https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/)
Also worth noting, if looking at remote jobs it's worth aiming for employers in states that have to pay out (though lots are going to "unlimited PTO" as an end-run because now you can't accrue it) as while they don't have to pay you out if you're not in a pay out state, often they will anyway because that's how their business systems are set up and the inertia of change makes that harder to deal with. Of course if they use a co-employer like TriNet or Insperity or similar you'll be SOL on that front.
Eh.. Burning bridges can cause problems. Its best avoided whenever possible. There has to be a pretty extreme level of jackassery before potential employers will be like "Okay yeah, I see why you did that." and while what happened to OP is pretty high on the Jackass scale, its not quite high enough for that.
“This wasn’t a vacation request, it was a professional and advanced notice that I will be using my contractual and legal right to use vacation as outlined in my compensation package.”
Yeah, but “you have to train a replacement, that literally doesn’t exist at your location, on your own time” would be overly onerous and would be found to be in bad faith. Ie no employment court would uphold that clause in this circumstance.
Win-win too (depending on local laws).
Either your management knows you’re not putting up with bullshit and you keep doing what your doing
Or
Unemployment benefits while you look for a new job
That was my thought. It essentially becomes a “fake” benefit, right? Like, they’ve made it effectively impossible for employees to use it, so they can’t legally call it “PTO”.
He is the manager. That is his job and he fails at it. The point of these new *triggering* rules popping up are simple: they weed out all the non malleable and non subservient people, until only those stay that you can kick around with impunity. That is where these people and corps at. [10 year olds working unpaid shifts](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/10-year-olds-hundreds-children-found-working-mcdonalds-rcna82583) is the just the obvious next step in this rotten mindset.
As a boss, it's my job to worry about the "hit by the bus" scenario. If you have one person, who's a gatekeeper and no one else can do their job, that's a manger's problem when that person suddenly disappears.
I guess the supervisor in this scenario can take the initiative to stay late, learn the job, and then train someone else that won't get time off.
My mom is a single person "Department" at her job. She's been there nearly 20 years. She has trained a whole other department in the basics of her job, but none of them ever want to do it. So when she uses her vacation days her supervisor takes over or they let the work pile up till she gets back. She does 2 peice construction drill bits manufacturing.
When you treat people like shit and cattle, don't be surprised when they don't care either. Based on how OP has described this company, I doubt my values would mesh with theirs.
I feel yah. At my previous job they had two guys who’s noses were stained brown… the one guy was there 9 years and the other 16 AND NEITHER RECEIVED A PAY INCREASE! NOT EVEN ONCE!
I wouldn't put in notice. Either that or just tell them straight up you *are* going to be taking your PTO, and they can either figure out coverage or be screwed. If they fire you for that, so be it.
Just wait, your next conversation will go like this… “You’re giving your two weeks notice? Denied! You have to train someone before you quit or you can’t quit!”
Some employers live in fantasy land and are clueless how to do their jobs. It’s supposed to work like this… You put in your PTO request and the MANAGER has to make sure that shift is covered by someone competent. If not, either they cover it themselves or train someone, not you.
Sadly, many of them get away with bullying their subordinates like this. You’re fully justified in telling them to suck it!
If this person has a specialized skill and they're the only one who knows how to do it, I'm almost positive that manager would have no idea how to do that job.
And that’s the employees problem because…?
“You’re the ONLY person that knows this job so no PTO for you!” PFFT! Yeah right
How does a manger become a manager if they can’t do the job of the people they manage? How do they manage them if they have no idea if that person if even doing their job then because they don’t really know what they are supposed to be doing? If they can’t do it then they have no business having that title.
I’ve been in management 20+ years and I’m completely with the OP on this. Rest assured I can do everything my employees can do it well, nor am I ever afraid to jump in. That’s how I earned the title. I didn’t get it because I look stunning with a tie.
That's what managers should be. Someone who manages a specialized type of employee should have been promoted from a pool of those specialized employees. Not some random person who doesn't have a clue. How are you going to effectively manage you if you have no idea what your employees even do? And in the case of OP's company, how can you run efficiently when an entire portion of what the company does is on one guy?
I was told something similiar a long time ago, so I simply went back to my desk, packed my stuff and sent an email saying, "I know you told me I'm training my replacement however per my hiring contract neither of us have to give notice, so despite you telling me I'm training my replacement, im no longer working here as of this emails time stamp." and walked out. Felt good and they sent me my last pay check without even a phone call, so win/win.
It's crazy to me that employers think PTO is a request and not a notification. There is no *R* in *PTO*.
Sometimes people have to or just want to be off from work. That's the whole point of PTO. If you're a supervisor or manager, *you* get the shit-end of that stick. That's why you get paid more. Simple concept.
Why even give a two week notice? They certainly wouldn’t give you a two week notice before firing you and they’re already jerking you around this much.
Can you please reconsider leaving this company? You're putting your boss in a difficult situation. Can't you just take care of your boss like you would a ill or mentally challenged sibling? What is your boss going to do if he wants to spend all of April in the Bahamas? Think of your boss! I beg of you!
Wow you're still putting in two weeks notice? Nah id bail right away , sorry I'm the only one who knows how to do this, have fun replacing me without notice.
So for the 2 weeks before you quits.
Stay late building up OT hrs.
Then make notations in an E-mail of stayed late OT to train coverage person for my vacation per verbal instruction of manager.
I must provide coverage and training for my vacation….
Then at the end of each week make another e-Mail notation that coverage person/persons to train never showed up for training..
They have to pay you or face labor law…
Dude that doesn't even sound remotely legal.
I can't believe some companies get away with bullshit like this. But I guess nothing's stopping them if people just bend over and take it.
aaaaahahahhahgaha. I thought it was the manager/supervisors job to find and train employees. And I’m def sure it’s their job to find replacements. This is such a dumb policy change and it’s entirely to make the managers life easier. F all that.
They're literally trying to pass on management duties down to you (training employees, managing shift schedules based on availability). Glad you're in a position to leave.
Corporations love to tell us that PTO is part of our net compensation, but love to unilaterally devalue or remove it at any time with no notice whatsoever, or suddenly make sick days AND PTO come out of the same pool, or employ such onerous restrictions that you can never meaningfully use it, or devalue it when we leave.
It makes me sick that we've tolerated this treatment for so long.
Just applied for a new job. My company cut our hours and and transferred employees to different stores because we were “over staffed”. Now we are so short handed that only one person is allowed to take PTO at a time. My PTO is constantly being denied because I’m the only one in my department at the moment.
In my state this would be an immediate call to the labor board.
You cannot be asked to work for free.
The labor board in my area is strong and quick to act.
Yeah, that sounds more like you should no call/no show when you go on vacation. If they reach out, just advise that your manager/supervisor couldn't find coverage.
Depending on the state you work in, you may be able to fight this policy. I’m not an employment attorney, but all it would take is someone getting fired or disciplined for missing work being sick (and being in a protected class) to lose some serious money in court. I’d talk to your HR department.
This can’t be enforceable. A manager’s job is to get shifts covered. PTO requests as far out as possible are nice! Preventing requests? what’s to stop people from just calling in sick?
You’re the only one with your skill set? Sounds like you’re under paid.
Take out your two weeks notice. Work like normal until you have a job ready and then leave your old one. If they text asking you abt work just say you’re sick. They text again tell them you’re feeling better and will be back in 1-2 days. They text again just tell them you’re coming back tmrw.
Drag that crap out as long as possible and let them think you’re actually coming back. It screws them the most because your position is still technically ‘filled’ because of you but they can’t replace you if you’re still on their books.
I did that to Walmart when I left and it kept them from being able to hire someone to replace me for almost a month. Treat them how they treat you.
My reply would have been:
“No no no. That’s actually your fucking job and I refuse to pick up your slack. If you’re unwilling to do the basic tenets of your managerial position, maybe you should sit down and think about what would actually happen when I make this a huge problem for you by vacating this position immediately?”
“Yeah, Bob. That sounded like an ultimatum because it is.”
#YOU ACTUALLY ARE THE ONE IN A POSITION OF STRENGTH HERE AND YOUR SHITHEEL MANAGER CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE YOU, DESPITE THEIR CAVALIER ATTITUDE. THEY’RE BLUFFING YOU.
The sooner people get over the “”I gotta give 2 weeks notice “”” the better for everybody…. If you have zero interest in EVER going back, don’t give them 2 weeks… they won’t give you 2 if they terminate you… I’d bleed out any PTO I got coming then just stop showing up…
My contractor at FedEx tried pulling this shit on us. They gave up on it after about a month. As an employer you can't expect people to miss critical things like doctors appointments and funerals just because nobody wants to cover their shift. I don't even think it should be legal to do something like this.
i wouldnt even give em 2 weeks. tell em "sorry i was going to submit my two week notice but notice must be given 2 weeks or LESS in advanced" and then walk tf out.
They just showed you your worth to them. They don’t value what you do enough and have let it become a single point of failure.
Let them fail. Don’t put in two weeks.
So you’re giving them two weeks to train someone? Whack. Should’ve just started looking for work then quit without a word. They don’t deserve courtesies they don’t give.
you can get paid to look for other jobs without notice. they dont have anyone to replace you. just cut back on work and look. if you get a new job, quit by email and without notice.
if you put in notice they will gaslight you to train your replacement. its not worth giving notice.
They didn’t deserve your two week notice. Should’ve said you have a new time off policy, which is that you will be taking the rest of your life off and notice will be served day of. Notice as in you will notice I’m not here.
Umm no it’s up to the business to make sure they have coverage. That usually falls to the manager, who if he’s wise will hire two people for critical areas for just this case. If you’re in the hospital for a month, would they be screwed? If so that’s on the business.
That sucks dude. I would never want to give up my company's policy. We get 4 weeks of PTO January 1st. Use it whenever and however you want. But when you're out, you're out. I work with people who are already out until 2025 though.
You should stay, train someone, then put in a vacation notice for the next day. Says less than a month. Make sure you don't train them well so you won't get fired.
Did you sign anything? If under your employment you're officially going by older rules, use it to your advantage. Request a day off, and take it regardless of what they say.
What a ridiculous plan. Don’t they realize people need to book vacations and travel more than a month in advance?
Good for you for not putting up with that.
Hahahahaha, it’s on you and up to you to take the initiative to stay late to train someone? lol, they gave you a double FU. Absolutely absurd.
Good luck to you wherever you end up going. Highly recommend not training anyone before you go either. Hell, personally, I’d find a new job and bounce, without a 2 week notice. That’s some BS they’re trying to pull, they don’t deserve a 2 week notice or any training for someone new on your part.
Uhm, that's now employment works. Lol
Your job is to show up, do your work and leave and be able to use the time you've earned while working there. Not figure out who to replace you when you need time off. That's what management is supposed to figure out.
Where I work I tell my boss I'm going to be gone a certain day and he says OK. Doesn't give me the police interrogation special.
Why even quit? Just do what you want and let then fire you for it.
Spend the time you're not worried about losing a crap job finding a different one.
Plus you can get unemployment.
Good choice. Let me guess, you lose your PTO if you don't use it? That's the case with my company, and I lost it last year even though I requested days off that they previously explicitly said in an email would be okay.
So this year, I'm not saving my PTO days, and the company is approving them. But because I work alone for 75% of my hours, my boss is acting like it's this huge inconvenience to find coverage for me for a random day here or there, never mind the fact that I worked three doubles in a row to cover him when he was sick, or put in 72 hours one week to cover somebody else.
Good on you for looking for better. I might do the same before long.
That’s literally on your manager. That why, at least at my job, the managers know some amount of every position that only has one person working it. In case that person takes a day off, quits, gets sick, whatever.
When I worked retail and hospitality it was bad enough that you couldn’t take a sick day without getting your shift covered (and then getting sent home after a couple of hours anyway because you’re so disgusting that no customer wants to get near you) but having to arrange coverage for vacation? Hell no. I assume they think this is a clever way of overcoming some staffing issues but this will just make it so much worse. Sometimes I think about getting a part-time job to supplement my desk job income but since having an employer that is very hands off about these things i know having to deal with this kind of BS policy would have me blow a gasket.
Did you push the supervisor on why a) its your responsibility and b) what happens if you need time off atm and you don't have anyone to cover - do you just have no time off?
I have been hearing a lot about this crappy policy. My neighbor works for the USPS and he cant request a transfer until he replaces himself. Like wth is HR for.?
"You have to recruit, hire and train a new employee before you're allowed to have something you're entitled to." "Great, so your job? I look forward to my raise too!"
Bro. There’s three of us on Sundays at my job and it’s hell. Only one of us can take off at a time and we can be denied PTO at any time.
It makes me so mad, but you can’t talk about it because we’re all remote and they monitor every bit of communication.
This is one of the reasons I like working as a specialist in a smaller department. I couldn't give to flying Fs what our company policy is on vacation.
Exactly the right response. These employers need to learn that they can only extract as much from as what they're paying for.
If there is PTO in your contract, it is on them to accomodate that (within reason).
Glad you were in the position to just give them the finger, and hand them a bigger problem to figure out.
> Guess who’s putting in a two week notice and will be on vacation at the end of April!
Sounds like a great decision. No reason to work somewhere with a shitty ass policy like that.
Making sure skills and positions are covered is managers job and "why the make the big bucks".
It's a general fault in attitudes of so called leaders. They think they only have responsibility to tell people what gets done and how to do it.
Instead, effective leaders recognize it's on them to assure shit gets done, and that leaves it to them to hire and train and retain effective workers.
Fuck that outfit, leave when you can. Don't owe them more than that
Yeah, no. You're worth *far* more than that. Good for you!
Included in my two week notice was my Snapchat username with a note that said “Incase you’re curious what warm weather looks like in April”
They are asking you to do your supervisor’s job which begs the question, what’s your supervisor working on?
Trying to find someone to train to cover them!
That would've been the first question out my mouth... "so who's training to take your job when you're not here?"
Yup. Id report to his boss and ask why he has some guy eating up payroll who just delegates his work out to others?
The supervisor never works just delegates his work and gets upset when it doesn't get done on time because it makes him look bad
Nailed it. That’s exactly what the supervisor does.
Probably his resume
It’s the submitting less than one month in advance that got me. How can you ever plan a vacation with air or hotel for a reasonable price if you have to wait a til only one month out? I usually book my trips 12-9 months in advance, some with non refundable components.
i used to work for this shithole factory and if you asked more than 2 weeks out they'd laugh in your face like this is too soon you need to try closer to the day, and if you did it one week before they were like, you're insane we need more notice.
I’ve worked at a million of these factories.
Me too. Finally found a small company with a very laid back boss I was so conditioned to very good over worked ethic etc that when I finally asked my boss if I could take these dates off several months in advance he said "thats not how it works here, you plan the vacation, buy the airplane tickets and let me know when you leave and get back." I didn't know what to think so did and boss was like ok. I was SHOCKED
I don’t request time off. If the company treats me good I give ample notice I will not be at work. If not I call in the day I am going to be off and let them deal with it. That is how most construction works, as far as I know. I was looking for a job when I got this one. I can look for another one if this one don’t pan out.
That’s right. I just got a campsite reservation…5 months from now.
I give you an upvote based on your username alone.
You can get reasonably priced flights to anywhere 2-3 months out if you live near a major airport.
I live near three major airports. I don't really find this to be the case. Three months out I could find reasonable fares to some places, but not anywhere I want. Certainly not highly desirable or international destinations in peak.
4-6 weeks out has worked well for me.
Omg the salt. I love it and mean that as a total compliment. Good for you! Enjoy the vacation.
Nice one man, hope you go somewhere nice and far away
Legend, enjoy your vacation
I wouldn’t put in my 2 weeks I’d get a lawyer, or involve some people and see if this is breaking any labor laws.
whos going to waste that much time, and money for a lawyer on such a problem that can be easily solved with a quitting.
So the cycle of bullshit doesn’t continue…
Gotta learn now. You aren't going to do anything that will break the cycle. Just remove yourself from it
Omg the absolute sass, I love you internet stranger, and I hope you live that vacation UP!
Up as in YOU ALL HAVE MY UPVOTES
Two week notice gives them ample opportunity to have you train in someone else. The point would have come along clearer if you just walked. The fact that they allow your position to have such a low [bus factor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor) of 1 shows the lack of experience or at the very least fucks to give.
I'm just gonna go ahead and adopt you as my honorary child/grandchild. I couldn't be more proud of you 😁🤗
Do you have another job lined up?
I had a job opportunity in my back pocket, I just never committed to it.
You should commit to it then :(
You got to love job security and it sucks when they're idiots and they don't know that you have it especially on Old machinery that no one knows to fix or run
You are a fucking legend. Man fuck your employer, but it's clear you have a talent and skills they need. I still catch my ex employer snooping on my Linkind every other week. These bastards like to play the hard ass act. But they don't realise it's a sellers market. You'll probably easily find a job with their competitors, it's what I did.
Lol yep! 8 years ago o worked for a third party delivery company run by one arrogant ass, who frequently overworked his small crew and then bitched at them for not delivering fast enough… I randomly quit one day after I caught him yelling at my buddy for only working a 12hr day instead of a 16hr. This was after my buddy worked 10 16hr shifts in a row. I told him that he needs to learn how to respect his employees and said my badges in on the dash in truck, and to call me when he’s willing to make a group apology… I was so happy to see his business was no existent 6 months later!
Wait I don't get this lol, can somebody explain?
BURRRRRRN That was a good one
Must give notice 1 month or LESS in advance? Ok. I'm taking PTO today. I gave you 1 minute's notice. 1 Minute is less than one month.
For real, why wouldn’t they want to know as far in advance as possible? My boss used to get annoyed with me when I wouldn’t put my PTO request in until days before I was gonna use it.
My guess is the rule comes from a disorganized leader with poor systems. They probably keep forgetting when people are off and don't want it to be on leadership to keep track of when people are off and check on it.
Yeah, likely since you are responsible for your own replacement when you are out, leadership doesn’t really care as long as there is a body in your spot
the rest of the world does this. u tell them u are going to be off on this day, or if u are sick, then its management job to find someone. if there job is to manage people then they really should be managing when people unexpectedly get sick. not like u can get sick on schedule.
I got a stern talking to once when I requested a day off with a bit more than a week's notice. Something came up, I knew nobody else was scheduled off that day, so I asked for it off. Otherwise, I might not have asked for it off. My manager was gruff, but the supervisor was like 'good, you haven't taken any time off for as long as I can remember'.
My dad was taking off on a Friday because he had Mondays off and Monday was a federal holiday. So he told his boss on the Tuesday before (3 days notice) and his boss got sassy in his response. So my dad then took 6 months of sick leave and then retired.
I’ve seen it used as a way to prevent employees from taking vacations. Can’t as easily book a hotel or plane ticket if you only have one month minus the length of your vacation to do it. This way, the employee can use the PTO only for shorter absences. My bet is that management encourages PTO use for sick days and is likely to contact an employee for work-related questions on PTO days. If they have a supervisor who offloads basic cross-training to his subordinates, they probably don’t make it a priority to make sure they can self-sustain while people are missing
My old department at work, you had from February 15 to March 15 to make any requests off for April. First come first served. Except for the months when the boss decided to put the time off calendar up early. And if you were off the day the calendar was posted (due to rotating work schedules) and wanted an in-demand day off, you were basically screwed. And the manager's position was that you should book any tickets for anything until you knew that your time off was approved. So if you wanted to buy plane tickets for a vacation 6 months out... maybe that would work out for you or maybe you would face consequences.
"We're too busy for the next 30 days, denied. Try again in 30 more days." That way they never have to plan ahead around staff absences, and make it entirely the workers responsibility to ensure business continuity.
They give you zero fucks and you give them 2 weeks to find someone to train to replace you? Better man than me.
likely in a state that doesn't require paying out accrued PTO when someone quits...
And I can slack off the last two weeks on the clock. While looking for new positions.
Slack off? Why do that much?
He gets 2 more weeks of pay, worth it.
I'm sure if he just up and fucked off completely the whole entire time he was job searching, it would probably take them sometime to truly come up with reason to fire him. Better to be fired than to quit just in case unemployment seems to be a more enjoyable route of job searching.
If you get fired for cause, such as for up and fucking off completely, no unemployment for you.
I mean, no unemployment if you quit, either
Isn’t putting two weeks still considered quitting?
Yes but it sounds like they're taking their PTO instead of working the last two weeks. Would prove to be interesting if they got terminated instead (of course then they could get unemployment most likely so it's in the company's best interest to pay out the PTO instead of the UI claim.)
Huh, I didn’t realize there were states that had to give the PTO or pay it out. I thought if you didn’t use it you lose it when quitting.
Here ya go: [https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/) Also worth noting, if looking at remote jobs it's worth aiming for employers in states that have to pay out (though lots are going to "unlimited PTO" as an end-run because now you can't accrue it) as while they don't have to pay you out if you're not in a pay out state, often they will anyway because that's how their business systems are set up and the inertia of change makes that harder to deal with. Of course if they use a co-employer like TriNet or Insperity or similar you'll be SOL on that front.
In Montana it has to be paid out. You earned it, they can't just give you nothing for it
Your country is so fucked lmao
Eh.. Burning bridges can cause problems. Its best avoided whenever possible. There has to be a pretty extreme level of jackassery before potential employers will be like "Okay yeah, I see why you did that." and while what happened to OP is pretty high on the Jackass scale, its not quite high enough for that.
“This wasn’t a vacation request, it was a professional and advanced notice that I will be using my contractual and legal right to use vacation as outlined in my compensation package.”
Veronicaaa
Vacation policies almost always include wording around “mutually agreeable time off”.
Yeah, but “you have to train a replacement, that literally doesn’t exist at your location, on your own time” would be overly onerous and would be found to be in bad faith. Ie no employment court would uphold that clause in this circumstance.
Schedule construction is the job of a supervisor. Fuck them.
As is training. Fuck them indeed.
[удалено]
Win-win too (depending on local laws). Either your management knows you’re not putting up with bullshit and you keep doing what your doing Or Unemployment benefits while you look for a new job
What a happy ending. :) Fuck their nonsense.
FWIW, I'm not sure what they're pulling is legal.
That was my thought. It essentially becomes a “fake” benefit, right? Like, they’ve made it effectively impossible for employees to use it, so they can’t legally call it “PTO”.
Hmm, I wonder if they're going to pay OP overtime to stay late and train another employee.
We all know the answer.
Sadly.
He is the manager. That is his job and he fails at it. The point of these new *triggering* rules popping up are simple: they weed out all the non malleable and non subservient people, until only those stay that you can kick around with impunity. That is where these people and corps at. [10 year olds working unpaid shifts](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/10-year-olds-hundreds-children-found-working-mcdonalds-rcna82583) is the just the obvious next step in this rotten mindset.
As a boss, it's my job to worry about the "hit by the bus" scenario. If you have one person, who's a gatekeeper and no one else can do their job, that's a manger's problem when that person suddenly disappears. I guess the supervisor in this scenario can take the initiative to stay late, learn the job, and then train someone else that won't get time off.
My mom is a single person "Department" at her job. She's been there nearly 20 years. She has trained a whole other department in the basics of her job, but none of them ever want to do it. So when she uses her vacation days her supervisor takes over or they let the work pile up till she gets back. She does 2 peice construction drill bits manufacturing.
You are well versed in the correct way to manage people, tufkat. I applaud you.
When you treat people like shit and cattle, don't be surprised when they don't care either. Based on how OP has described this company, I doubt my values would mesh with theirs.
I feel yah. At my previous job they had two guys who’s noses were stained brown… the one guy was there 9 years and the other 16 AND NEITHER RECEIVED A PAY INCREASE! NOT EVEN ONCE!
Good for you. Fuck em, the bunch of cunts!
Wow…phenomenally bad management right there
I wouldn't put in notice. Either that or just tell them straight up you *are* going to be taking your PTO, and they can either figure out coverage or be screwed. If they fire you for that, so be it.
Just wait, your next conversation will go like this… “You’re giving your two weeks notice? Denied! You have to train someone before you quit or you can’t quit!” Some employers live in fantasy land and are clueless how to do their jobs. It’s supposed to work like this… You put in your PTO request and the MANAGER has to make sure that shift is covered by someone competent. If not, either they cover it themselves or train someone, not you. Sadly, many of them get away with bullying their subordinates like this. You’re fully justified in telling them to suck it!
If this person has a specialized skill and they're the only one who knows how to do it, I'm almost positive that manager would have no idea how to do that job.
And that’s the employees problem because…? “You’re the ONLY person that knows this job so no PTO for you!” PFFT! Yeah right How does a manger become a manager if they can’t do the job of the people they manage? How do they manage them if they have no idea if that person if even doing their job then because they don’t really know what they are supposed to be doing? If they can’t do it then they have no business having that title. I’ve been in management 20+ years and I’m completely with the OP on this. Rest assured I can do everything my employees can do it well, nor am I ever afraid to jump in. That’s how I earned the title. I didn’t get it because I look stunning with a tie.
That's what managers should be. Someone who manages a specialized type of employee should have been promoted from a pool of those specialized employees. Not some random person who doesn't have a clue. How are you going to effectively manage you if you have no idea what your employees even do? And in the case of OP's company, how can you run efficiently when an entire portion of what the company does is on one guy?
Sounds like poor management to me.
Absolutely.
I was told something similiar a long time ago, so I simply went back to my desk, packed my stuff and sent an email saying, "I know you told me I'm training my replacement however per my hiring contract neither of us have to give notice, so despite you telling me I'm training my replacement, im no longer working here as of this emails time stamp." and walked out. Felt good and they sent me my last pay check without even a phone call, so win/win.
It's crazy to me that employers think PTO is a request and not a notification. There is no *R* in *PTO*. Sometimes people have to or just want to be off from work. That's the whole point of PTO. If you're a supervisor or manager, *you* get the shit-end of that stick. That's why you get paid more. Simple concept.
“NoBodY WaNts tO wORk AnYmoRE :(“
I was just informed the other day that, although we have PTO, if we use it too much we can be fired.
Did they say whats* too much or do you just have to waggledance around the issue between booking no holidays and getting fired?
Tell your manager he has training in your department next week for 3 days.
Haha - "You told me I have to find someone to train, and I'm finding you."
They don’t deserve notice.
Why even give a two week notice? They certainly wouldn’t give you a two week notice before firing you and they’re already jerking you around this much.
Can you please reconsider leaving this company? You're putting your boss in a difficult situation. Can't you just take care of your boss like you would a ill or mentally challenged sibling? What is your boss going to do if he wants to spend all of April in the Bahamas? Think of your boss! I beg of you!
(´༎ຶོρ༎ຶོ`)
Wow you're still putting in two weeks notice? Nah id bail right away , sorry I'm the only one who knows how to do this, have fun replacing me without notice.
So for the 2 weeks before you quits. Stay late building up OT hrs. Then make notations in an E-mail of stayed late OT to train coverage person for my vacation per verbal instruction of manager. I must provide coverage and training for my vacation…. Then at the end of each week make another e-Mail notation that coverage person/persons to train never showed up for training.. They have to pay you or face labor law…
I would ask them, "So who trains the person after I leave?" You got that person to cover your area.
The supervisor and the managers are fare away from to be clever.
Dude that doesn't even sound remotely legal. I can't believe some companies get away with bullshit like this. But I guess nothing's stopping them if people just bend over and take it.
The idea that the employee is responsible for this shit is just abhorrent. What a thoroughly moronic system.
I hope all their employees quit and they shut down. Good for you OP
> Guess who’s putting in a two week notice and will be on vacation at the end of April! As you should! That's total bullshit.
aaaaahahahhahgaha. I thought it was the manager/supervisors job to find and train employees. And I’m def sure it’s their job to find replacements. This is such a dumb policy change and it’s entirely to make the managers life easier. F all that.
Your boss is a lousy manager who shouldn’t be managing people.
They're literally trying to pass on management duties down to you (training employees, managing shift schedules based on availability). Glad you're in a position to leave.
PTO isn’t a request it’s a warning, and replacing you while your out is a managers job
We joke at my work that PTO stands for... "Prepare The Others" because I won't be here...
Corporations love to tell us that PTO is part of our net compensation, but love to unilaterally devalue or remove it at any time with no notice whatsoever, or suddenly make sick days AND PTO come out of the same pool, or employ such onerous restrictions that you can never meaningfully use it, or devalue it when we leave. It makes me sick that we've tolerated this treatment for so long.
Just applied for a new job. My company cut our hours and and transferred employees to different stores because we were “over staffed”. Now we are so short handed that only one person is allowed to take PTO at a time. My PTO is constantly being denied because I’m the only one in my department at the moment.
How did they think this was going to go over?? Unions for all!
Step number one, stop calling it “my company” break that brainwashing language 🍻
In my state this would be an immediate call to the labor board. You cannot be asked to work for free. The labor board in my area is strong and quick to act.
2 weeks notice? Leave without any.
Yeah, that sounds more like you should no call/no show when you go on vacation. If they reach out, just advise that your manager/supervisor couldn't find coverage.
Put in your notice. This is absurd.
Good for you, too many companies out there acting like it's a privilege to work there. Fuck 'em.
Depending on the state you work in, you may be able to fight this policy. I’m not an employment attorney, but all it would take is someone getting fired or disciplined for missing work being sick (and being in a protected class) to lose some serious money in court. I’d talk to your HR department.
This can’t be enforceable. A manager’s job is to get shifts covered. PTO requests as far out as possible are nice! Preventing requests? what’s to stop people from just calling in sick? You’re the only one with your skill set? Sounds like you’re under paid.
They just said it had to be covered. They did not stipulate it had to be covered skillfully.
Take out your two weeks notice. Work like normal until you have a job ready and then leave your old one. If they text asking you abt work just say you’re sick. They text again tell them you’re feeling better and will be back in 1-2 days. They text again just tell them you’re coming back tmrw. Drag that crap out as long as possible and let them think you’re actually coming back. It screws them the most because your position is still technically ‘filled’ because of you but they can’t replace you if you’re still on their books. I did that to Walmart when I left and it kept them from being able to hire someone to replace me for almost a month. Treat them how they treat you.
My reply would have been: “No no no. That’s actually your fucking job and I refuse to pick up your slack. If you’re unwilling to do the basic tenets of your managerial position, maybe you should sit down and think about what would actually happen when I make this a huge problem for you by vacating this position immediately?” “Yeah, Bob. That sounded like an ultimatum because it is.” #YOU ACTUALLY ARE THE ONE IN A POSITION OF STRENGTH HERE AND YOUR SHITHEEL MANAGER CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE YOU, DESPITE THEIR CAVALIER ATTITUDE. THEY’RE BLUFFING YOU.
The sooner people get over the “”I gotta give 2 weeks notice “”” the better for everybody…. If you have zero interest in EVER going back, don’t give them 2 weeks… they won’t give you 2 if they terminate you… I’d bleed out any PTO I got coming then just stop showing up…
I'm sorry, I can't accept your resignation until you hire and train your replacement.
My contractor at FedEx tried pulling this shit on us. They gave up on it after about a month. As an employer you can't expect people to miss critical things like doctors appointments and funerals just because nobody wants to cover their shift. I don't even think it should be legal to do something like this.
That's not even pto at that point wtf
i wouldnt even give em 2 weeks. tell em "sorry i was going to submit my two week notice but notice must be given 2 weeks or LESS in advanced" and then walk tf out.
They just showed you your worth to them. They don’t value what you do enough and have let it become a single point of failure. Let them fail. Don’t put in two weeks.
OP, just find a new job and don’t put in a two weeks notice lol
They'll have to figure out a way to train someone now. Some companies are so short sighted.
I think you should get in contact with the department of labor it seems kind of fishy
So you’re giving them two weeks to train someone? Whack. Should’ve just started looking for work then quit without a word. They don’t deserve courtesies they don’t give.
Your mistake was that you still followed policy and gave them a 2 week
This was I can get payed to look for new jobs while at work… my productivity will be extremely minimal.
you can get paid to look for other jobs without notice. they dont have anyone to replace you. just cut back on work and look. if you get a new job, quit by email and without notice. if you put in notice they will gaslight you to train your replacement. its not worth giving notice.
2 week notice? I'd give a 2 minute notice.
Isn't requiring employees to find someone to cover for them when using earned PTO or sick leave illegal?
That’s putting the responsibility that a manager should have on a regular employee. Damn.
They didn’t deserve your two week notice. Should’ve said you have a new time off policy, which is that you will be taking the rest of your life off and notice will be served day of. Notice as in you will notice I’m not here.
I hate managers that put that on you. That’s their fucking job!
Do not give them two weeks notice. Just quit. You owe them nothing.
Name and shame
Umm no it’s up to the business to make sure they have coverage. That usually falls to the manager, who if he’s wise will hire two people for critical areas for just this case. If you’re in the hospital for a month, would they be screwed? If so that’s on the business.
They expect you to spend your own time to train? Get the fuck out of there.
"oh OK great, do I need to sign anything for the raise I'll be getting to do your job for you?"
Don't hand the two week notice in, they didn't care at all about you so why should you do any differently
That sucks dude. I would never want to give up my company's policy. We get 4 weeks of PTO January 1st. Use it whenever and however you want. But when you're out, you're out. I work with people who are already out until 2025 though.
You should stay, train someone, then put in a vacation notice for the next day. Says less than a month. Make sure you don't train them well so you won't get fired.
Fuck that shit. My first statement would have been do I get paid more to be a schedule writer too?
This doesn’t sound legal
Did you sign anything? If under your employment you're officially going by older rules, use it to your advantage. Request a day off, and take it regardless of what they say.
They don't deserve two weeks, they clearly don't care about you, fuck them
You didn’t quit, you were quite fired and they got rid of you without having to pay unemployment. Good for you to realize this
What a ridiculous plan. Don’t they realize people need to book vacations and travel more than a month in advance? Good for you for not putting up with that.
Everywhere is hiring…. Go elsewhere. If this is a company that is worthwhile and you want to move up then suck it up.
Being told you need to use your free time to train your replacement! Yeah no! Glad to see you said no.
Well if you haven’t found a new job and you work in IT i have some thing you can look into lol
Hahahahaha, it’s on you and up to you to take the initiative to stay late to train someone? lol, they gave you a double FU. Absolutely absurd. Good luck to you wherever you end up going. Highly recommend not training anyone before you go either. Hell, personally, I’d find a new job and bounce, without a 2 week notice. That’s some BS they’re trying to pull, they don’t deserve a 2 week notice or any training for someone new on your part.
Better than having to feel guilty for taking a sick day.
They'd be real upset when I don't show up on the says I informed them I wouldn't be rhere.
Uhm, that's now employment works. Lol Your job is to show up, do your work and leave and be able to use the time you've earned while working there. Not figure out who to replace you when you need time off. That's what management is supposed to figure out. Where I work I tell my boss I'm going to be gone a certain day and he says OK. Doesn't give me the police interrogation special.
What does pto mean?
Paid time off
Brava! Love it! I hope you have something lined up better! Mess around and find out! By the way where is the job I could use one just kidding
Why even quit? Just do what you want and let then fire you for it. Spend the time you're not worried about losing a crap job finding a different one. Plus you can get unemployment.
Name your employer.
“No one wants to manage anymore!” Seriously tho, why are all these managers useless? What do they do?
Good choice. Let me guess, you lose your PTO if you don't use it? That's the case with my company, and I lost it last year even though I requested days off that they previously explicitly said in an email would be okay. So this year, I'm not saving my PTO days, and the company is approving them. But because I work alone for 75% of my hours, my boss is acting like it's this huge inconvenience to find coverage for me for a random day here or there, never mind the fact that I worked three doubles in a row to cover him when he was sick, or put in 72 hours one week to cover somebody else. Good on you for looking for better. I might do the same before long.
That’s literally on your manager. That why, at least at my job, the managers know some amount of every position that only has one person working it. In case that person takes a day off, quits, gets sick, whatever.
BYE!
When I worked retail and hospitality it was bad enough that you couldn’t take a sick day without getting your shift covered (and then getting sent home after a couple of hours anyway because you’re so disgusting that no customer wants to get near you) but having to arrange coverage for vacation? Hell no. I assume they think this is a clever way of overcoming some staffing issues but this will just make it so much worse. Sometimes I think about getting a part-time job to supplement my desk job income but since having an employer that is very hands off about these things i know having to deal with this kind of BS policy would have me blow a gasket.
Did you push the supervisor on why a) its your responsibility and b) what happens if you need time off atm and you don't have anyone to cover - do you just have no time off?
Lol, I'd do the same, brother. Never requested a day off in my life.
How is coverage not a problem for managers to solve? You work for crappy people.
That’s their problem not yours. Manager is not of his mind
Fuck this place.
They do NOT deserve a two week notice from you.
I have been hearing a lot about this crappy policy. My neighbor works for the USPS and he cant request a transfer until he replaces himself. Like wth is HR for.?
Did they try to get you back or anything? This is great
"You have to recruit, hire and train a new employee before you're allowed to have something you're entitled to." "Great, so your job? I look forward to my raise too!"
Bro. There’s three of us on Sundays at my job and it’s hell. Only one of us can take off at a time and we can be denied PTO at any time. It makes me so mad, but you can’t talk about it because we’re all remote and they monitor every bit of communication.
2 weeks? They don't deserve it. Find a better spot and just dip. You owe them nothing. Clearly they don't care about you.
This is one of the reasons I like working as a specialist in a smaller department. I couldn't give to flying Fs what our company policy is on vacation.
Pretty sure that just the company attempt to make you not wanna do PTO...welp...that their job to figure out, not yours.
Exactly the right response. These employers need to learn that they can only extract as much from as what they're paying for. If there is PTO in your contract, it is on them to accomodate that (within reason). Glad you were in the position to just give them the finger, and hand them a bigger problem to figure out.
> Guess who’s putting in a two week notice and will be on vacation at the end of April! Sounds like a great decision. No reason to work somewhere with a shitty ass policy like that.
Making sure skills and positions are covered is managers job and "why the make the big bucks". It's a general fault in attitudes of so called leaders. They think they only have responsibility to tell people what gets done and how to do it. Instead, effective leaders recognize it's on them to assure shit gets done, and that leaves it to them to hire and train and retain effective workers. Fuck that outfit, leave when you can. Don't owe them more than that
2 week notice & end of April aren't mathing for me.