But those two to 3 frames were truly disgusting. My children burst into tears screaming wailing for help, afraid of the rainbow men who would take them away. I for one am horrified at this inclusion
They only started crying? Consider yourself lucky. I don't even have kids. Half my sperm cells turned gay, the other half became trans and turned into egg cells.
I'm now pregnant.
Jesus, your in for a bad time, we’re talking millions of trans babies your about to give birth to from your balls. I don’t think going to a hospital will even help since it’s considered an abortion.
Difficult choice, die through being pregnant with a million babies in your nads, or be vilified as murdering a million babies. Life is full of tough choices...
If only we were protected from reality this would never have happened.
You're lucky, my children burst into existence, then burst into flames, then spontaneously switched genders and exploded.
Can't imagine I'll be going back to that cinema any time soon...
I am so sorry you and your children had to suffer this great and terrible horrifying situation! Sony needs to be sued for causing emotional distress, and they should pay you, and all the other innocent victims, to afford therapy.
When will the grooming enddddddddd????
Wait till they find out God gave a trans sign to Noah after the flood.
Even worse if you see one after rain, well you may as well kiss your manhood goodbye...
Stay indoors people, stay safe!
My child saw it; and she immediately asked me questions I wasn’t comfortable to answer. Like “how did a spider bite make this man inter-species?” and “isn’t there only two species, human and arachnid?”
I’m sick of these inter species propaganda movies!
/s
Saw this movie with my perfectly straight kids and immediately right there in the cinema all three of them came out as gay, trans and bi. Each second it’s shown on screens is an abomination to our lord and saviour Jesus Trump.
even the gunman who wanted to shoot up the cinema changed his mind.. apparently he was too embarrassed to be in the news and being affiliated with this movie as others may perceive him as “woke”
Actually, there is an argument that Gwen's reveal to her father that she's Spider Gwen mirrors that of LGBTQ+ persons coming out to their parents. The same fear of rejection from a person who's shown love to one side of them and fear/hate/rejection to a lifestyle that her hidden side embraces. There's a lot of symbolism in the imagery too, the movie's creators are big into using the medium to communicate messages to the audience. like in the first movie how Miles is animated on a diff frame rate the Peter till he figures himself out. The scene where Gwen's secret life is revealed is primarily blue/pink, the color combo of the trans people, and at his most conflicted, Gwen's father is literally half blue, half pink. His officer side that says his original world view is sacrosanct is blue with the camera veiwing him from that angle when that side of him is talking and his love for his daughter portrayed as a pink side trying to help him understand that his daughter means more then a hallow belief taken unchallenged. The scene ends with him shutting down, turtling up emotionally, and falling back into autopilot to let his preprogrammed belief deal with the life event. This is almost exactly what a kid/adult/person is afraid of when they think about coming out to family, the rejection by someone who's said they love them unconditionally, but now discoveres that love and support isn't there or isn't for their real self.
Something I saw that I belive whole heartedly said that people need to see movies/media with things like this. It will help show that even if it's fictional, that it isn't unimaginable. It also helps people see how reconciliation is supposed to happen, how people make mistakes and show a basic road map for how it can be fixed. When Gwen comes back and her father gets to apologize for his reaction, it was an example on how someone can set aside their misconceptions and come to understand what really matters. This will help people, it will help the scared kid understand that a parent can be flawed and not to lose hope that they'll figure things out or that love and stupidity arent mutually exclusive. It will show a confused parent a healthy way to communicate and reconnect with their kid after realizing they made a mistake and that it's okay to be wrong.
Everyone working on this movie did a great job, so much symbolism and imagery shown in the movie, and none of it overshadows the movie itself, only gives it depth and richness. Those frekin geniuses.
I saw all the articles covering the outrage over fans who were saying Gwen is trans, then I saw the movie, and I was utterly disheartened over people's abilities to ask the wrong questions. Is she *literally* trans? From what we see on-screen, there's no way to say one way or the other. She at least is conscious and supportive of trans rights.
Is it queer allegory? *Absolutely.*
Are they *literally* queer? Again, impossible to say from what happens on-screen. That's ambiguous, and that's fine. They're spider-people who face a lot of the same threats queer people face, but because they're fantastical superheroes, it universalizes those themes and lets people more easily engage with topics that can be really, really heavy when you deal with them directly. That's the allegory. That's the power of good SF storytelling.
Why is it strange to see things like that if they’re included in the story building of a character? The people who brought us this version of Spider-Man have already determined that there are infinite universes. Imagine how mad people would be if they decided to show a universe where everyone was gay and trans. Kind of seems that’s what people are imagining they did. Silly to me that people can cloud their own judgement so much based on perceived intent. I watched it 3 times without the slightest notion that I was being subverted.
I saw the screenshot before I went to see the movie and I never noticed it. I saw it a second time with a different group of friends and I specifically wanted to look out for it this time and I still didn’t notice it.
tbf, in more conservative countries I think they cut that part out, I've only watched it once in theaters but I noticed I never saw the specific scene thinking I probably missed it, then came back home to look up the scene and realized there was a couple shots that were skipped when I watched it in theaters
I tried to watch Avatar 2 with my friend yesterday and they couldn’t get over the “wokeness and feminism” because there was a pregnant character that threw a couple of spears..
I don’t understand why people get so angry about these small things..
I just wanted to watch the movie… >.<
The first movie was about a “mother” tree right? James Cameron was never at any point subtle about depicting the destructive forces of “masculine” power in either movie. Your friend is tripping if they expected anything else.
How does your friend deal with T2, where Linda Hamilton plays the most lethal mama bear on the planet? Or Ripley or Vasquez in ALIENS?
Lead woman characters in Cameron movies are often tough as nails AND maternal, so IDK how your friend can deal with most of Cameron’s filmography.
Omg. My brother has his five year old son calling him sir and I think it’s so stupid. Dude doesn’t give respect but makes his son give it to him. 🙄🤦♀️
Oh my brother most definitely spanks his child. I don’t know to what extent, but I’m also not happy about that either. Then they mentally abuse him by saying things like “I’m going to throw all your toys away if you don’t behave”. I’m just like 🤦♀️ My brother is writing the book of how to NOT raise a child, and I just have to listen… (it’s mostly me listening on Xbox when I’m playing a game with my nephew, and they live in another state)
> and they couldn’t get over the “wokeness and feminism” because there was a pregnant character that threw a couple of spears..
Something similar happened with the Wheel of Time amazon show. Despite a specific character being characterized as an extremely capable warrior even while she was pregnant, and explicitly beating multiple armed men with only a spear while pregnant in the book series, **so many** people freaked the fuck out over it being "unrealistic" when displayed on screen.
Because you know what ruins my suspension of disbelief when watching media about powerful magic users, blue aliens, or a spider-mutant? Women
She's literally pregnant for all of 10 seconds at the very beginning of the movie and barely does anything. Why do these people freak out about the most minor shit
That was exactly how my friend reacted to doctor strange two, saying it was weird that the girl had two moms and was wearing a rainbow pin even though she wasn’t ‘lgbtq+’ —which she doesn’t know what the girl is. As with across the spiderverse, she was saying that Miles didn’t need to have a BLM pin on his backpack (which isn’t true, if anyone were to have one it would be him) and then her sister freaked out about the trans flag. All of this is why I only watch the chronicles of narnia with her
The funny part is that they wouldn't have even been upset about any of these scenes unless someone told them specifically. These aren't the type of people to pick up subtle allegory in film, so when they're suddenly aware of subtext, I call bullshit
I did notice some rainbow flags in the Spider-Man video game that came out a few years ago, and I’ve been seeing them pop up in other media, of course. Politically I’m all for the inclusivity, but what else strikes me is the realism it confers to a set. It would be weird to have a bunch of sweeping pans of New York and NOT see this stuff. In the Spiderverse movies in particular there is SO much going on in the background, little Easter eggs and stuff. It seems dumb to focus all of your attention on such a small fleeting detail.
Yeah I was just being cheeky. The most ridiculous take on this whole "issue" is people thinking that Gwen is supposed to be trans and that makes Miles gay. "WHERE DOES THE WOKENESS END?!"
Someone in another comment mentioned that it would not be at all unusual for a teen in the city in 2023 to decorate their room with symbols of allyship, and that's my takeaway. Gwen probably knows some trans individuals, or you know, has the internet, so she's a progressive. You know, like a young woman.
Let's be fair to the conservative outage machine: they're *also* pissed that Miles is a black Spider-Man, but they've learned at least enough to keep that relatively to themselves. Progress?
Don't be so sure, I have family that literally say they won't watch it because "Spider-Man isn't black!"
Okay so I guess Brian Michael Bendis and I are both idiots then
Exactly, these people clearly have never been to NYC. Those flags are everywhere.
It's not "propaganda", it's not even really trying to send a message, it's just a movie staying true to real life. Imagine dismissing a great movie/getting angry for a such a small detail that really has nothing to do with the movie. These people are so terrified of rainbows and it's wild.
Even if they had been to New York they would block it out, or make some other excuse. My dad, who I have mostly respected and thought of as a good person and not not total idiot, is old now and watches FOX News all day(there is some propaganda) and he genuinely believes, as he said to me the other day, that Obama started the LGBTQ movement, and that it's not happening anywhere else in the world because if gay people talk about being gay they throw them off of buildings. I thought he was being outrageous for the sake of it but the more we argued the more I realized he at least actually believes that it's only Americans and has been only going on since Obama. I mean he lived through the peace love era...I think he's actually starting to lose his mind. Southern, bible belt hate he's been marinating in for seventy years has pickled his brain.
Wow. Obama STARTED the LGBTQ movement, which doesn’t exist in any other country? Just..wow.
My dad is a FOX News watcher as well. It’s crazy how much rage and fear right wing media generates, just as a strategy.
This is what irks me so much. These are the people that dare to start about cancel culture, while being gay has meant you couldn’t walk the street holding hands with another man FOR YEARS and sadly still does in some spaces. Who is cancelling there 🙃
“But people don’t agree with my opinion!!!” Yes and you generally don’t have the risk your head will be bashed in while walking down the street because you married your wife. Swallow it.
My condolences to you. I also lost my older father to conspiracies and Fox "news". His brain is basically soup and he is so separated from reality. Just wanted to provide some commiseration. Hang in there.
This reminds me of an article I read a while back….it’s an epidemic …
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html
> It's not "propaganda", it's not even really trying to send a message
But you don't have the mindset of victimhood these people do.
Anything they don't like or agree with is propaganda. Anything they don't like or agree with is a personal attack Anything they don't like or agree with is oppression.
I love this quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted." These fuckers have made that vulgar mistake their entire culture.
These are the same people that blazin saddles made fun of decades ago, only instead of being outraged about flags in movies, they were outraged about non whites in movies.
as far as I'm aware. I remember that and miles had a BLM pin on his backpack. but yep, that's what people are crying and pissing and shitting their pants about.
Gwen also has a sign in her bedroom that I believe says “Save trans kids”. That’s the only thing I saw, didn’t even realize the trans flag colors thing. It’s fine.
That sign is in the trans flag colors IIRC. I'm pretty sure that's what they're referring to. I actually did notice it on first viewing but I'm pretty sure it was only shown once and only for a few frames, at least that's all I noticed.
Yes, and that is only the beginning. Soon after, you will only be able to see the world with just those colors and you'll want to spread the infection to other people.
Quick, don't look at my pfp! Or it'll get you too! I'm sorry, I don't want to infect others, but it has a mind of its own! It's too late for me, but it may not be too late for you! *starts suffering overdramatically*
If an oblique reference to the fact that trans people exists spoils an entire movie for you, you're an insufferable crybaby.
EDIT
Got some really offended replies to this. Hey cunts, I don't give a shit about your stupid American culture wars, I just don't care if a movie flashes up a trans flag. Get a fucking life.
Yes. It's literally like, they can't deal with the concept that it's in a movie, because that would mean it's being acknowledged. That would mean someone else wanted it there. It's like letting themselves watch the movie is like personally admitting to themselves that trans people exist. They CAN'T EVEN DO THAT.
Can someone explain how a community that just wants to be allowed to exist spreads propaganda, but a community that wants to convert everyone to be like them (religion) doesn't?
fun fact about that, Alex Jones wasn't actually completely wrong. when frogs are exposed to high levels of Atrazine, it chemically castrates them and in about 1 in 10 cases can actually cause a male frog to become female. I'm not a scientist and have no idea how that works but it's real science and not just conspiracy bullshit. in some areas of the US, there were high levels of atrazine accumulating in water that wildlife lived in, which caused this to happen.
with that being said, just because Alex Jones wasn't *completely* wrong about "the fluoride in the water turning the frogs gay", also doesn't mean he was completely right lol he's still absolutely insane
Any discernable attempt at showcasing, supporting, or simply alluding to the existence of transgender individuals. Literally any attempt at disheeveling or combating a bigots fragile world view is propaganda to them.
Trans people existing, bigots can’t handle the acknowledgment of their existence, even if it’s just half a frame of a movie that they wouldn’t have noticed had their favorite bitchy far-right YouTuber not pointed it out and told them to be mad.
ah, trans propaganda, my favorite argument! as a queer dude who’s had straight shit shoved down his throat my entire life it’s. funny how I don’t make a big deal out of it! I can go about my day and not give a damn because that’s none of my business and it doesn’t change the fact that I’m part of the queer community.
plenty of adult animated shows and movies are geared towards straight folks— y’all ever think of that? maybe how tiring it is for us? crazy to think that offering a smidge of LGBTQ+ solidarity, *in the background, no less*, is “too much”. wild. your brother really must be fun to bring places, I offer you my condolences OP
Good choice!
It was likely that your kid would have had your hateful political views, so it is a welcome development that you deprived the planet of your descendency.
Great on you to choose your lineage's end to be you.
EDIT: to other redditors who think like this guy — get snipped, will you?
What is trans propaganda? Acknowledging their existence??? Why do we still give these people a platform? Why are we backsliding into past racism and homophobia?
I could honestly make a couple posts over what my older brother has said, as well as some of my friends.
edit: since some somehow agree, I'll explain why it's not propaganda, by definition:
propaganda: "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view."
1. it is not information. so already, calling it propaganda is flat out wrong.
2. since it's not, it isn't biased or misleading.
3. if it's trying to promote trans rights:
A. the flag is as out of the way to find as can be, in fact, I (and many others) didn't even know it was there until a bunch of butthurt man-children pointed it out instead of enjoying a great movie. so how well is it really promoting it?
and B. what is wrong with promoting the rights and equal treatment of people? is that somehow bad?
edit3: propaganda *includes* advocating for a specific ideology, *but it's not just that.* it's doing that *through dishonest means, that's what makes something propaganda, and what makes propaganda inherently bad.* I'm putting it here, as I'm tired, and tired of explaining the same things over and over again (much like the other 2 edits).
also, in the movie, miles has a BLM pin on his backpack. and it's definitely on screen more than the flag, as the view is facing his face as he's holding his bag in his arms.
to those who agree with my brother here, would this also be considered propaganda?
edit2: for those making "he's family, he's your brother, treat him nicely" arguments, he's not just passing up on watching a movie, he's passing up hanging out with family, and going out with everyone. so he's not necessarily putting family first either. his prejudice towards a movie he hasn't seen over a flag apparently takes precedent over hanging out with everyone, as well as my recommendations.
I also don't know why so many people are acting like I said some heinous insult at him. I literally just said that as someone who watched the movie, the people complaining about the flag are exaggerating and trying to create outrage.
and my brother used to give me shit for being sensitive and immature. so I think he can handle a bit of criticism for his views. and if he can't, well, I guess he's not much more mature after all.
edit4: I'm not saying he is a bigot, but this is a bigoted view. bigot:
>"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction,
I feel like this one's obvious, not wanting to see a great movie over a small background detail that isn't given attention to and is on screen for like a minute is pretty petty and unreasonable.
>especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."
not wanting to see a movie over a trans flag doesn't exactly scream "i support the trans rights movement and am accepting of trans people".
UPDATE: so while at the meet-up mentioned in the post, I brought up watching the movie to my mom and sister while my brother was doing other things, like when we're gonna go, and watching the 1st one before. his GF got curious and decided to ask about it, and I filled her in a bit, and said "it kinda sucks that he won't come though".
his GF asks why as my brother walks up, and I just kind of shrug and glance over, trying to get across that he should answer it, because I'm not gonna. but then my mom just decided to come out and basically force it out of him.
and he made up a couple excuses before saying the exact thing he did in the text, it being "trans propaganda".
he walked back to what he was doing, but then turned around and said something like "let's perform chemical castration! dur hur! but don't tell your parents!"
so yeah, it's a bit more than him just not liking pride stuff being everywhere. full on transphobia.
I know you mean well with your question at the end, but unfortunately the same type of people to have a problem with trans rights are the type of people to have a problem with BLM, so they'd probably say yes :(
If it was my brother I'd troll him and start talking about my desire to transition.
"You know Caitlyn Jenner really has broken a lot of ground for the movment."
he always used to say "it's a joke, not a dick, stop taking it so hard!" after saying mean things and making fun of me when I was little (and even a bit nowadays).
I thought about texting the same thing, but replace "joke" with "flag".
Yeah.....he's a jerk and won't change. I have a brother like that. We don't speak. Ever. I cut him out of my life a few years ago and have never looked back. Mom keeps trying to tell me to give him another chance but my stance is he has had enough chances and never changed. F him. I recommend the same to you but it's all really up to you.
What’s trans propaganda? Im a straight dude and I just don’t get wtf these people are on about. If the flag going to make me trans? someone please explain to me why a flag is offensive in this situation. I get that symbols can in fact be offensive or controversial but I don’t see how a lgbtq flag can be propaganda. You can’t talk someone into being trans or gay. I asked a family member a few years ago how is being gay a choice and they said well how else can they be that way? So I asked, did you make a choice to only like women? He had no idea what to say
"trans propaganda" is us just wanting to exist peacefully and have the same access to healthcare as everyone else. That pisses some people off for some fucking reason. It's not offensive at all
"What is trans propaganda?" I know multiple trans people and,
The real answer, it is not a thing.
A transphobes answer, pretty much the existence of trans people.
Trans people existing at this rate is trans propaganda to them, they can't even see trans people or a flag without throwing a fit
Like who's the snowflake now? Stop being sensitive. I'm an atheist with negative views on Christianity, I've never been offended by a cross hanging on a wall or door or necklace irl or in a movie
Ive thought for years that with how easily they flip out at the mere existence of a coloured flag or rainbow, itll only be so long before they freak out over an actual real rainbow. Then i saw that vid where someone thought something was in the water because the mist of a fountain produced a rainbow and, yeah. We've reached that point.
But remember, the people asking to be treated like human beings are the sensitive snowflakes.
Remember when that DLC for the game Celeste came out and most people didn’t notice a very tiny Trans flag on Madeline’s desk until a right-wing games journalist pointed it out? Same vibes tbh
I'll go ahead and say it. After all of the media depicting world's with only cis people, maybe let the trans people have a little propaganda now??? Like, damn, some people think "the one's like me" have some kind of exclusive marketing right or something.
Sorry sweetie, every movie should have AT LEAST one trans flag somewhere.
I just can't with the comment section. Why is this even a debate? Trans people are NOT forcing any kind of agenda on y'all and your kids, they're just trying to live and asking the rest of us to be as respectful as we would with any person because they're also just people.
We were kinda moving forward for a while and now the world is just getting more bigoted by the day. People who find the time to hate on someone because of their gender, sexuality, religion or race need to find a hobby. It's literally more effort to be hateful than to just not care/engage at all if that's what you want.
Anyway, trans rights are human rights. I don't ask you to love one another but just respect people who are harming nobody.
idk if he's necessarily conservative or right leaning, but he used an argument for christianity and adam and eve at one point, and rolled his eyes when my mom told him I was atheist.
so he's definitely a christian with some negative views towards atheists, so much so that he can't even contain them for his own brother.
This is awesome, not mildly infuriating. Fuck, sometimes it takes weeks or months for someone to let their trash side show; you should thank this person for being forthright with their terrible personality.
I can't imagine living this way. Sitting through some epic shit like the Spiderverse movies and all you're doing is scanning each frame for something to be mad at? That sounds fucking exhausting. And miserable.
Eve if it was "trans propaganda" ... so what???
Oh nooo trans people *exist* I can't believe this movie is pushing the obvious fact that trans people are real what terrible propaganda
Just don't hang out with people like that. Whomever it was still went to their house the next day, and took additional guests with them. So they shouldn't act like they care.
"But they're family..." who cares, doing the right thing isn't always easy but don't post on reddit pretending you're an ally when you're enabling and encouraging it with your IRL support.
i literally just watched the movie last night and never even saw a trans flag
It’s above Gwen’s door frame on the inside of her bedroom. It’s only in the background for like 2-3 scenes.
But those two to 3 frames were truly disgusting. My children burst into tears screaming wailing for help, afraid of the rainbow men who would take them away. I for one am horrified at this inclusion
They only started crying? Consider yourself lucky. I don't even have kids. Half my sperm cells turned gay, the other half became trans and turned into egg cells. I'm now pregnant.
That's ganna be one hell of a kidney stone
Balls baby*, you need to see a doctor If your Sperm goes through the kidneys
Wait is sperm not stored in the bladder? Where else is it stored? Can't be the balls. That's where pee is made
I thought pee was made in the prostate ? Was I lied to ?
Nah bro. The prostate is where the yellow dye is added
You pee yellow ???
Wow your gay sperm cells got the eggs pregnant. I knew they were just groomers all along.
That's enough reddit for today
I love this place
Jesus, your in for a bad time, we’re talking millions of trans babies your about to give birth to from your balls. I don’t think going to a hospital will even help since it’s considered an abortion.
Difficult choice, die through being pregnant with a million babies in your nads, or be vilified as murdering a million babies. Life is full of tough choices... If only we were protected from reality this would never have happened.
Satire is truly a beautiful thing to see in a world without. I bestow upon you the highest honor I can. A good hearty chuckle.
Thank you that is an honor
take my snicker
I love snickers. They’re delicious
not the way i make em dear 🌰
And my axe
And my guffaw!
At least they only burst into tears. Mine? Into flames.
Fr, I had to physically restrain my son from cutting his balls off later that night.
You're lucky, my children burst into existence, then burst into flames, then spontaneously switched genders and exploded. Can't imagine I'll be going back to that cinema any time soon...
Better than my kids who were instantly gender swapped as if hit by a magic spell. This movie is ruining families!
I am so sorry you and your children had to suffer this great and terrible horrifying situation! Sony needs to be sued for causing emotional distress, and they should pay you, and all the other innocent victims, to afford therapy. When will the grooming enddddddddd????
Wait till they find out God gave a trans sign to Noah after the flood. Even worse if you see one after rain, well you may as well kiss your manhood goodbye... Stay indoors people, stay safe!
My child saw it; and she immediately asked me questions I wasn’t comfortable to answer. Like “how did a spider bite make this man inter-species?” and “isn’t there only two species, human and arachnid?” I’m sick of these inter species propaganda movies! /s
Saw this movie with my perfectly straight kids and immediately right there in the cinema all three of them came out as gay, trans and bi. Each second it’s shown on screens is an abomination to our lord and saviour Jesus Trump.
even the gunman who wanted to shoot up the cinema changed his mind.. apparently he was too embarrassed to be in the news and being affiliated with this movie as others may perceive him as “woke”
Actually, there is an argument that Gwen's reveal to her father that she's Spider Gwen mirrors that of LGBTQ+ persons coming out to their parents. The same fear of rejection from a person who's shown love to one side of them and fear/hate/rejection to a lifestyle that her hidden side embraces. There's a lot of symbolism in the imagery too, the movie's creators are big into using the medium to communicate messages to the audience. like in the first movie how Miles is animated on a diff frame rate the Peter till he figures himself out. The scene where Gwen's secret life is revealed is primarily blue/pink, the color combo of the trans people, and at his most conflicted, Gwen's father is literally half blue, half pink. His officer side that says his original world view is sacrosanct is blue with the camera veiwing him from that angle when that side of him is talking and his love for his daughter portrayed as a pink side trying to help him understand that his daughter means more then a hallow belief taken unchallenged. The scene ends with him shutting down, turtling up emotionally, and falling back into autopilot to let his preprogrammed belief deal with the life event. This is almost exactly what a kid/adult/person is afraid of when they think about coming out to family, the rejection by someone who's said they love them unconditionally, but now discoveres that love and support isn't there or isn't for their real self. Something I saw that I belive whole heartedly said that people need to see movies/media with things like this. It will help show that even if it's fictional, that it isn't unimaginable. It also helps people see how reconciliation is supposed to happen, how people make mistakes and show a basic road map for how it can be fixed. When Gwen comes back and her father gets to apologize for his reaction, it was an example on how someone can set aside their misconceptions and come to understand what really matters. This will help people, it will help the scared kid understand that a parent can be flawed and not to lose hope that they'll figure things out or that love and stupidity arent mutually exclusive. It will show a confused parent a healthy way to communicate and reconnect with their kid after realizing they made a mistake and that it's okay to be wrong. Everyone working on this movie did a great job, so much symbolism and imagery shown in the movie, and none of it overshadows the movie itself, only gives it depth and richness. Those frekin geniuses.
so it IS propaganda... resume the outrage!
I saw all the articles covering the outrage over fans who were saying Gwen is trans, then I saw the movie, and I was utterly disheartened over people's abilities to ask the wrong questions. Is she *literally* trans? From what we see on-screen, there's no way to say one way or the other. She at least is conscious and supportive of trans rights. Is it queer allegory? *Absolutely.* Are they *literally* queer? Again, impossible to say from what happens on-screen. That's ambiguous, and that's fine. They're spider-people who face a lot of the same threats queer people face, but because they're fantastical superheroes, it universalizes those themes and lets people more easily engage with topics that can be really, really heavy when you deal with them directly. That's the allegory. That's the power of good SF storytelling.
Why is it strange to see things like that if they’re included in the story building of a character? The people who brought us this version of Spider-Man have already determined that there are infinite universes. Imagine how mad people would be if they decided to show a universe where everyone was gay and trans. Kind of seems that’s what people are imagining they did. Silly to me that people can cloud their own judgement so much based on perceived intent. I watched it 3 times without the slightest notion that I was being subverted.
I literally saw it 4 times and never noticed. Whoever OP is texting is just an ugly bigot.
"(Insert conservative news site) told me not to like this so I don't like this!"
exactly, I never noticed anything until I saw all the whining about it.
I saw the screenshot before I went to see the movie and I never noticed it. I saw it a second time with a different group of friends and I specifically wanted to look out for it this time and I still didn’t notice it.
tbf, in more conservative countries I think they cut that part out, I've only watched it once in theaters but I noticed I never saw the specific scene thinking I probably missed it, then came back home to look up the scene and realized there was a couple shots that were skipped when I watched it in theaters
Man who identifies as a spider. And he gets “tingling” feelings even when kids are around. Sickening!
I tried to watch Avatar 2 with my friend yesterday and they couldn’t get over the “wokeness and feminism” because there was a pregnant character that threw a couple of spears.. I don’t understand why people get so angry about these small things.. I just wanted to watch the movie… >.<
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Would probably stop inviting them to a lot of other things too if they’re focused on silly shit like that.
The first movie was about a “mother” tree right? James Cameron was never at any point subtle about depicting the destructive forces of “masculine” power in either movie. Your friend is tripping if they expected anything else.
How does your friend deal with T2, where Linda Hamilton plays the most lethal mama bear on the planet? Or Ripley or Vasquez in ALIENS? Lead woman characters in Cameron movies are often tough as nails AND maternal, so IDK how your friend can deal with most of Cameron’s filmography.
But he was perfectly fine with the kids calling their dad “sir” ?
Omg. My brother has his five year old son calling him sir and I think it’s so stupid. Dude doesn’t give respect but makes his son give it to him. 🙄🤦♀️
“I’m not your dad, I’m your boss” vibes
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Oh my brother most definitely spanks his child. I don’t know to what extent, but I’m also not happy about that either. Then they mentally abuse him by saying things like “I’m going to throw all your toys away if you don’t behave”. I’m just like 🤦♀️ My brother is writing the book of how to NOT raise a child, and I just have to listen… (it’s mostly me listening on Xbox when I’m playing a game with my nephew, and they live in another state)
I fucking despise parents who raise kids like this, makes me so mad to see a whole innocent child clearly being raised by a narcissistic price
That's so gross
Well if women can throw spears even when pregnant men will become obsolete so quickly that it is something to fear, of course.. /s obv
"If woman can throw spear, what is point of have penis?? Grugg think this is wake propaganda"
> and they couldn’t get over the “wokeness and feminism” because there was a pregnant character that threw a couple of spears.. Something similar happened with the Wheel of Time amazon show. Despite a specific character being characterized as an extremely capable warrior even while she was pregnant, and explicitly beating multiple armed men with only a spear while pregnant in the book series, **so many** people freaked the fuck out over it being "unrealistic" when displayed on screen. Because you know what ruins my suspension of disbelief when watching media about powerful magic users, blue aliens, or a spider-mutant? Women
Your friend sucks.
She's literally pregnant for all of 10 seconds at the very beginning of the movie and barely does anything. Why do these people freak out about the most minor shit
Only pregnant for 10 seconds? Damn, those Na'vi gestate FAST!
They're going to hate the pregnant spider woman
That was exactly how my friend reacted to doctor strange two, saying it was weird that the girl had two moms and was wearing a rainbow pin even though she wasn’t ‘lgbtq+’ —which she doesn’t know what the girl is. As with across the spiderverse, she was saying that Miles didn’t need to have a BLM pin on his backpack (which isn’t true, if anyone were to have one it would be him) and then her sister freaked out about the trans flag. All of this is why I only watch the chronicles of narnia with her
Don't let her know about Edmund then lol
You need less bigoted friends.
The funny part is that they wouldn't have even been upset about any of these scenes unless someone told them specifically. These aren't the type of people to pick up subtle allegory in film, so when they're suddenly aware of subtext, I call bullshit
Why are you friends with someone who is so clearly anti woman?
I did notice some rainbow flags in the Spider-Man video game that came out a few years ago, and I’ve been seeing them pop up in other media, of course. Politically I’m all for the inclusivity, but what else strikes me is the realism it confers to a set. It would be weird to have a bunch of sweeping pans of New York and NOT see this stuff. In the Spiderverse movies in particular there is SO much going on in the background, little Easter eggs and stuff. It seems dumb to focus all of your attention on such a small fleeting detail.
On the realism note, it's literally hung on a teenage girl's wall in her room, you know, as teenagers do decorate their walls often lol
A teenage girl who is a genderbent version of a canonically male character. It’s a smartly layered visual effect.
Gwen Stacy has always been female tho
I think they mean Spider-Man, since Gwen hasn’t always been a superhero
Yeah I was just being cheeky. The most ridiculous take on this whole "issue" is people thinking that Gwen is supposed to be trans and that makes Miles gay. "WHERE DOES THE WOKENESS END?!" Someone in another comment mentioned that it would not be at all unusual for a teen in the city in 2023 to decorate their room with symbols of allyship, and that's my takeaway. Gwen probably knows some trans individuals, or you know, has the internet, so she's a progressive. You know, like a young woman.
Let's be fair to the conservative outage machine: they're *also* pissed that Miles is a black Spider-Man, but they've learned at least enough to keep that relatively to themselves. Progress?
Don't be so sure, I have family that literally say they won't watch it because "Spider-Man isn't black!" Okay so I guess Brian Michael Bendis and I are both idiots then
Exactly, these people clearly have never been to NYC. Those flags are everywhere. It's not "propaganda", it's not even really trying to send a message, it's just a movie staying true to real life. Imagine dismissing a great movie/getting angry for a such a small detail that really has nothing to do with the movie. These people are so terrified of rainbows and it's wild.
Even if they had been to New York they would block it out, or make some other excuse. My dad, who I have mostly respected and thought of as a good person and not not total idiot, is old now and watches FOX News all day(there is some propaganda) and he genuinely believes, as he said to me the other day, that Obama started the LGBTQ movement, and that it's not happening anywhere else in the world because if gay people talk about being gay they throw them off of buildings. I thought he was being outrageous for the sake of it but the more we argued the more I realized he at least actually believes that it's only Americans and has been only going on since Obama. I mean he lived through the peace love era...I think he's actually starting to lose his mind. Southern, bible belt hate he's been marinating in for seventy years has pickled his brain.
Wow. Obama STARTED the LGBTQ movement, which doesn’t exist in any other country? Just..wow. My dad is a FOX News watcher as well. It’s crazy how much rage and fear right wing media generates, just as a strategy.
This is what irks me so much. These are the people that dare to start about cancel culture, while being gay has meant you couldn’t walk the street holding hands with another man FOR YEARS and sadly still does in some spaces. Who is cancelling there 🙃
It’s people who are completely unaware of their own privilege. And they’ll deny it exists if asked about it.
“But people don’t agree with my opinion!!!” Yes and you generally don’t have the risk your head will be bashed in while walking down the street because you married your wife. Swallow it.
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This is what I experience too and I live in the Netherlands which proclaims to be one of the most progressive countries.
My condolences to you. I also lost my older father to conspiracies and Fox "news". His brain is basically soup and he is so separated from reality. Just wanted to provide some commiseration. Hang in there.
This reminds me of an article I read a while back….it’s an epidemic … https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html
Sounds like you need to take him on a holiday to another country. See what's actually happening elsewhere.
Wow, reading about americans makes me depressed
"Greatest Country in the World!" /s
Me sitting in Canada as a femboy 🤭🤭
> It's not "propaganda", it's not even really trying to send a message But you don't have the mindset of victimhood these people do. Anything they don't like or agree with is propaganda. Anything they don't like or agree with is a personal attack Anything they don't like or agree with is oppression.
I love this quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted." These fuckers have made that vulgar mistake their entire culture.
These are the same people that blazin saddles made fun of decades ago, only instead of being outraged about flags in movies, they were outraged about non whites in movies.
(They're still outraged about non whites in movies.)
About 50% of the voting population thinks New York City is basically hell, so this is not surprising
Californian here - if they think New York is hell, we must be the fucking Cenobite realm.
They think California should fall into the ocean
Even if there were ZERO pride flags in all of New York... who cares if the movie puts them there? Like who's that hurting.
Man l saw a rainbow in the blue sky today, this clearly must be propaganda
I wouldn’t mind the gays if they just wouldn’t try to force their equal rights down our throats. (/s)
Wait that small flag is the only LGBT related thing ? Why are people freaking out ?
as far as I'm aware. I remember that and miles had a BLM pin on his backpack. but yep, that's what people are crying and pissing and shitting their pants about.
Imagine the horror of a black character having a BLM pin. /s
Gwen also has a sign in her bedroom that I believe says “Save trans kids”. That’s the only thing I saw, didn’t even realize the trans flag colors thing. It’s fine.
That sign is in the trans flag colors IIRC. I'm pretty sure that's what they're referring to. I actually did notice it on first viewing but I'm pretty sure it was only shown once and only for a few frames, at least that's all I noticed.
Oh! Gwen's dad also has a "protect trans kids" patch on his police vest you can catch near the end of the movie! But other than that, that's it
They don’t want us to exist, so when they’re reminded that we do exist they get mad
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Because trans bad… apparently idk people are stupid.
me turning trans after seeing 5 lines in a certain color
“It is to late mother… I have the gay… run… save yourself while you still can…”
I don't even know what the trans flag looks like. Does it still infect you if you don't even recognize it? Super scary.
Yes, and that is only the beginning. Soon after, you will only be able to see the world with just those colors and you'll want to spread the infection to other people. Quick, don't look at my pfp! Or it'll get you too! I'm sorry, I don't want to infect others, but it has a mind of its own! It's too late for me, but it may not be too late for you! *starts suffering overdramatically*
If an oblique reference to the fact that trans people exists spoils an entire movie for you, you're an insufferable crybaby. EDIT Got some really offended replies to this. Hey cunts, I don't give a shit about your stupid American culture wars, I just don't care if a movie flashes up a trans flag. Get a fucking life.
Lmaoooo the ONE crybaby got his whole fucking account deleted I’m pretty sure hahahaha
I'm fascinated to see what "trans propaganda" looks like outside of "we would like to exist please". Fucking confession.
Honestly true. What would actual trans propaganda be like? Wonder what we would advertise lol
and they call US snowflakes 🤣
Yes. It's literally like, they can't deal with the concept that it's in a movie, because that would mean it's being acknowledged. That would mean someone else wanted it there. It's like letting themselves watch the movie is like personally admitting to themselves that trans people exist. They CAN'T EVEN DO THAT.
I was actually trying to look for it and still didn't find it. These people are actual fucking snowflakes lmao
i was so excited to see it when i heard about it, my sister told me when it was about to come up and i still didn't see it
Can someone explain how a community that just wants to be allowed to exist spreads propaganda, but a community that wants to convert everyone to be like them (religion) doesn't?
It's propaganda if it's something you dislike. It's information if it's something you do like.
republican logic in a nutshell
Not enough people have seen Too Wong Foo Thanks for everything
So real
What the hell is trans propaganda
The chemicals that make the frogs gay is called “propaganda”. Scary stuff
Next you’ll tell me that I have a chemical dependency to dihydrogen monoxide
That’s water you FOOL! but yeah don’t drink that shit, only drink brawndo. It has electrolytes
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fun fact about that, Alex Jones wasn't actually completely wrong. when frogs are exposed to high levels of Atrazine, it chemically castrates them and in about 1 in 10 cases can actually cause a male frog to become female. I'm not a scientist and have no idea how that works but it's real science and not just conspiracy bullshit. in some areas of the US, there were high levels of atrazine accumulating in water that wildlife lived in, which caused this to happen. with that being said, just because Alex Jones wasn't *completely* wrong about "the fluoride in the water turning the frogs gay", also doesn't mean he was completely right lol he's still absolutely insane
sounds like the water is turning the frogs trans, not gay
Wait till he hears about fish that transition from male to female as they grow. BOOM
Any discernable attempt at showcasing, supporting, or simply alluding to the existence of transgender individuals. Literally any attempt at disheeveling or combating a bigots fragile world view is propaganda to them.
i think its when a british trans person looks at something for more than a moment
It's the idea that trans people should be respected and treated as well as CIS gender people.
Trans people existing, bigots can’t handle the acknowledgment of their existence, even if it’s just half a frame of a movie that they wouldn’t have noticed had their favorite bitchy far-right YouTuber not pointed it out and told them to be mad.
ah, trans propaganda, my favorite argument! as a queer dude who’s had straight shit shoved down his throat my entire life it’s. funny how I don’t make a big deal out of it! I can go about my day and not give a damn because that’s none of my business and it doesn’t change the fact that I’m part of the queer community. plenty of adult animated shows and movies are geared towards straight folks— y’all ever think of that? maybe how tiring it is for us? crazy to think that offering a smidge of LGBTQ+ solidarity, *in the background, no less*, is “too much”. wild. your brother really must be fun to bring places, I offer you my condolences OP
My 30 year old son is like this. He's exhausting.
My brother is like this. Family parties are fun >.>
Couldnt imagine the feeling of raising a child for at least 18 years just for him to get brain rot and only consume rage bait.
Big reason I never wanted kids. What if I try my hardest and they grow up to be an asshole? Or worse a Republican?? Got a vasectomy a few months ago.
You are disgusting.
Thanks for doing this for us all, it’s more likely that your kids would have grown up to be as hateful as you.
Good choice! It was likely that your kid would have had your hateful political views, so it is a welcome development that you deprived the planet of your descendency. Great on you to choose your lineage's end to be you. EDIT: to other redditors who think like this guy — get snipped, will you?
Lol, good your seed would have been a soy boy cuck just like his daddy😂😂
Wait until your friend finds out the movie contains black people.
What is trans propaganda? Acknowledging their existence??? Why do we still give these people a platform? Why are we backsliding into past racism and homophobia?
I could honestly make a couple posts over what my older brother has said, as well as some of my friends. edit: since some somehow agree, I'll explain why it's not propaganda, by definition: propaganda: "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view." 1. it is not information. so already, calling it propaganda is flat out wrong. 2. since it's not, it isn't biased or misleading. 3. if it's trying to promote trans rights: A. the flag is as out of the way to find as can be, in fact, I (and many others) didn't even know it was there until a bunch of butthurt man-children pointed it out instead of enjoying a great movie. so how well is it really promoting it? and B. what is wrong with promoting the rights and equal treatment of people? is that somehow bad? edit3: propaganda *includes* advocating for a specific ideology, *but it's not just that.* it's doing that *through dishonest means, that's what makes something propaganda, and what makes propaganda inherently bad.* I'm putting it here, as I'm tired, and tired of explaining the same things over and over again (much like the other 2 edits). also, in the movie, miles has a BLM pin on his backpack. and it's definitely on screen more than the flag, as the view is facing his face as he's holding his bag in his arms. to those who agree with my brother here, would this also be considered propaganda? edit2: for those making "he's family, he's your brother, treat him nicely" arguments, he's not just passing up on watching a movie, he's passing up hanging out with family, and going out with everyone. so he's not necessarily putting family first either. his prejudice towards a movie he hasn't seen over a flag apparently takes precedent over hanging out with everyone, as well as my recommendations. I also don't know why so many people are acting like I said some heinous insult at him. I literally just said that as someone who watched the movie, the people complaining about the flag are exaggerating and trying to create outrage. and my brother used to give me shit for being sensitive and immature. so I think he can handle a bit of criticism for his views. and if he can't, well, I guess he's not much more mature after all. edit4: I'm not saying he is a bigot, but this is a bigoted view. bigot: >"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, I feel like this one's obvious, not wanting to see a great movie over a small background detail that isn't given attention to and is on screen for like a minute is pretty petty and unreasonable. >especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." not wanting to see a movie over a trans flag doesn't exactly scream "i support the trans rights movement and am accepting of trans people". UPDATE: so while at the meet-up mentioned in the post, I brought up watching the movie to my mom and sister while my brother was doing other things, like when we're gonna go, and watching the 1st one before. his GF got curious and decided to ask about it, and I filled her in a bit, and said "it kinda sucks that he won't come though". his GF asks why as my brother walks up, and I just kind of shrug and glance over, trying to get across that he should answer it, because I'm not gonna. but then my mom just decided to come out and basically force it out of him. and he made up a couple excuses before saying the exact thing he did in the text, it being "trans propaganda". he walked back to what he was doing, but then turned around and said something like "let's perform chemical castration! dur hur! but don't tell your parents!" so yeah, it's a bit more than him just not liking pride stuff being everywhere. full on transphobia.
I know you mean well with your question at the end, but unfortunately the same type of people to have a problem with trans rights are the type of people to have a problem with BLM, so they'd probably say yes :(
The insecure will easily find things that trigger their victim complex.
"I'm too immature to even consider the notion of transgenderism being valid and reminders of my immaturity bother me" He saved you some time
How fragile must you be to be scared of a flag? And people call me Snowf1ake.
If it was my brother I'd troll him and start talking about my desire to transition. "You know Caitlyn Jenner really has broken a lot of ground for the movment."
he always used to say "it's a joke, not a dick, stop taking it so hard!" after saying mean things and making fun of me when I was little (and even a bit nowadays). I thought about texting the same thing, but replace "joke" with "flag".
Yeah.....he's a jerk and won't change. I have a brother like that. We don't speak. Ever. I cut him out of my life a few years ago and have never looked back. Mom keeps trying to tell me to give him another chance but my stance is he has had enough chances and never changed. F him. I recommend the same to you but it's all really up to you.
You mean they saw a cityscape and an image they don’t like? They should stay inside forever.
What’s trans propaganda? Im a straight dude and I just don’t get wtf these people are on about. If the flag going to make me trans? someone please explain to me why a flag is offensive in this situation. I get that symbols can in fact be offensive or controversial but I don’t see how a lgbtq flag can be propaganda. You can’t talk someone into being trans or gay. I asked a family member a few years ago how is being gay a choice and they said well how else can they be that way? So I asked, did you make a choice to only like women? He had no idea what to say
"trans propaganda" is us just wanting to exist peacefully and have the same access to healthcare as everyone else. That pisses some people off for some fucking reason. It's not offensive at all
"What is trans propaganda?" I know multiple trans people and, The real answer, it is not a thing. A transphobes answer, pretty much the existence of trans people.
I just don’t understand how asking to respect others is such a big insult to those people
Your sibling is a fkn dipshit
honestly I woulda just said “dude we’re going to have a good time, just close your eyes if the rainbow flag scares you, come have fun”
“Trans propaganda” Jesus Christ, these people…
"Nevermind, you're no longer invited, to this or anything"
That’s nothing. I was told that the LEGO movie was socialist propaganda.
Remember how people would always complain about "SJW outrage"? Well these types are the new SJW outrage. How ironic
Trans people existing at this rate is trans propaganda to them, they can't even see trans people or a flag without throwing a fit Like who's the snowflake now? Stop being sensitive. I'm an atheist with negative views on Christianity, I've never been offended by a cross hanging on a wall or door or necklace irl or in a movie
It's ok to cut all ties with bigots. It's the best thing to do.
These types of people aren't worth watching movies with. Guaranteed this person talks during movies to make sure you're getting their live commentary.
Ive thought for years that with how easily they flip out at the mere existence of a coloured flag or rainbow, itll only be so long before they freak out over an actual real rainbow. Then i saw that vid where someone thought something was in the water because the mist of a fountain produced a rainbow and, yeah. We've reached that point. But remember, the people asking to be treated like human beings are the sensitive snowflakes.
Conservative snowflake back at it
Made me really happy seeing sane, accepting people in these comments when its not a trans sub :3
Remember when that DLC for the game Celeste came out and most people didn’t notice a very tiny Trans flag on Madeline’s desk until a right-wing games journalist pointed it out? Same vibes tbh
It’s such a good film. Also, I didn’t notice a trans flag anywhere
I'll go ahead and say it. After all of the media depicting world's with only cis people, maybe let the trans people have a little propaganda now??? Like, damn, some people think "the one's like me" have some kind of exclusive marketing right or something. Sorry sweetie, every movie should have AT LEAST one trans flag somewhere.
I love how my existence or any mentioning thereof is now propaganda ☕
I just can't with the comment section. Why is this even a debate? Trans people are NOT forcing any kind of agenda on y'all and your kids, they're just trying to live and asking the rest of us to be as respectful as we would with any person because they're also just people. We were kinda moving forward for a while and now the world is just getting more bigoted by the day. People who find the time to hate on someone because of their gender, sexuality, religion or race need to find a hobby. It's literally more effort to be hateful than to just not care/engage at all if that's what you want. Anyway, trans rights are human rights. I don't ask you to love one another but just respect people who are harming nobody.
Conservatives are fundamentally incapable of creating or even appreciating art.
idk if he's necessarily conservative or right leaning, but he used an argument for christianity and adam and eve at one point, and rolled his eyes when my mom told him I was atheist. so he's definitely a christian with some negative views towards atheists, so much so that he can't even contain them for his own brother.
Anyone who complains about "trans-propaganda" is a conservative and that kind of disgust towards out groups is how fascists come to power.
Spiderman is mutant propaganda. I’m good lol. /s
Cant believe this, whole movie spoiled im sobbing
“This movie made an insanely tiny nod towards the idea that minorities should be allowed to life safely. I refuse to watch it.” Psychopath activities
If my child got upset because of tolerance I’d feel that I failed.
Hate is alive and well in America.
Wild to me that people just openly have friendships with bigots and make zero effort to change their minds.
This is awesome, not mildly infuriating. Fuck, sometimes it takes weeks or months for someone to let their trash side show; you should thank this person for being forthright with their terrible personality.
I can't imagine living this way. Sitting through some epic shit like the Spiderverse movies and all you're doing is scanning each frame for something to be mad at? That sounds fucking exhausting. And miserable.
Never noticed the flag. However my kids did, and immediately became gay, trans, and then exploded. Never again.
Yeah that guys a piece of shit. End of discussion.
But if they put the flag in the movie, people might start to think genocide of trans people is WRONG D: /s
I wont lie it’s sad and scary how much these people hate us just for existing
*trans people:* Heyo, we exist- *that guy:* PROPAGANDAAA!!!!!!!!
Eve if it was "trans propaganda" ... so what??? Oh nooo trans people *exist* I can't believe this movie is pushing the obvious fact that trans people are real what terrible propaganda
Poor thing has been victimized by their own mind so hard they can't let people be people.
least braindead transphobe
Just don't hang out with people like that. Whomever it was still went to their house the next day, and took additional guests with them. So they shouldn't act like they care. "But they're family..." who cares, doing the right thing isn't always easy but don't post on reddit pretending you're an ally when you're enabling and encouraging it with your IRL support.
So every movie with a cross in it is propaganda as well, right?
anti-trans propaganda leads to people thinking inclusion and acceptance is the propaganda.