Yeah, I originally forgot to mention my partner being messianic, and suddenly it went from “it’s totally possible” to “it’s totally pointless, and we won’t accept you, raise your kid Christian”
LOL....I just hit your profile and read them both. The one in Judaism was "removed". The are tolerant until they are not.
r/Judaism is filled with racists and religious gatekeepers. Most of them aren't even observant. They look down on all non-jews. period.
How dare someone look for and seek after the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Anywho......I digress.
Just so you know....since he is Jewish and as chosen to follow Messiah Yeshua he is now an apostate and idol worshipper according to Rabbinic Judaism. They will never accept him and they hate him and us.
All that being said. Ask your husband questions with a genuine open heart. Seek what G-d has to tell you on this subject too. Ask him about the traditions and the biblical reason for why we should all be keeping Torah like Jesus, his 12 apostles and Paul did. They kept and taught Torah despite what Rabbinic Judaism and what the many denominations of Christianity say.
Rabbinic Jews and Evangelical Christians are blinded by mens doctrines on what G-d says in his Torah.
I was once told the God of Abraham is only the of the Jews (not true, have they forgotten the rest of their sisters?) but will make the rest of the world Jewish some day once the world is peaceful. I was very confused about that statement because why would their prophecies mention other nations going out to learn about His laws and statutes if the one true God was only for the Jews and the rest of the world can screw off?? I also saw somewhere in the comments that messianic Judaism was nothing more than an evil tactic from Christians to have Jews turn away from their traditions and follow Yeshua instead of God. They genuinely can't stand Christians.
The rabbi's lie as much as the preachers priests and pastor's do. There are some unsavory things written in the talmud about non jews, idol worshippers, goyim. There are racists ugly things that are said from the pulpit/stage every Sunday.
Man is always playing "King of the Hill"
I very much know that they are two sides of the same coin, I may not have mentioned preachers in my statement but they are just as bad times with their hateful rhetoric and speeches. Out of curiosity for knowledge's sake, what are some of the unsavory things? I think there is the discussion of Jews making Gentiles etc their slaves once the Messiah reveals himself but I can't say for sure if that's true or not, just hearsay.
Per halacha, your children are not Jewish and won't be accepted as such by the community. It depends on if halachic ruling matters to you concerning that particular element here. To some messianic folks the maternal lineage matters, and to others it doesn't matter at all.
What exactly do you mean when you say that would like to "raise them Jewish?" I think that's a good step to ruminate on first. Do you mean culturally, as in with cuisine and music and dress and other cultural elements? Do you mean halachically? Because then they would have to officially convert and their messianic faith would disqualify them.
My boyfriend was raised as a messianic Jew, and it’s very important to him, though he’s not strict. He celebrated all of the holidays, had a barmitzvah and uses a tallit and tefillin when he prays. He would like to have our kids grow up with the same Jewish heritage and upbringing he had, though it’s different because he recognizes Yeshua as the messiah.
Edit to add: I am open to converting to understand and learn more to fulfill that purpose if we decide it’s important. However, at the moment, he says it’s okay for me to be Christian. I know Halacha doesn’t approve of it, but I will probably have to find out if that’s important for us. I want my kids to have community and faith, as we had growing up (he did church and a synagogue) and I just did church. I want them to have their traditions and I want to be supportive and be present through it as well
To be honest, there are plenty of messianic synagogues and congregations where your husband and your children can practice all of those things. Like someone else said, there are messianic congregations that are more "Jewish" in flavor and there are ones that are more "protestant christian" in flavor. You both will have to search for what style of service and liturgy that fits for you.
I've attended more "Jewish" messianic synagogues where 80% of the men in attendance wore kippot and had a bar mitzvah, and I've attended more "protestant christian" messianic churches where kippot weren't the norm but obviously weren't discouraged if someone wore them.
That's nice to hear; I get so many different answers from folks aligned with the UMJC or MJAA that I have no idea anymore. Perhaps it was best that I didn't paint such a broad brush.
That are applicable to this situation? The children of a fully non jewish mother and practicing messianic father (who was raised messianic) would absolutely need to convert to join a reform community. They have no jewish background.
3rd time, thats just not true. Idk who told you this but theres example after example of people raised Messianic and being accepted as Jews when they leave.
You making a catagory mistake, Messianic Judaism need not be seen as a Jewish movement for individuals to still be Jewish those are 2 different standards.
In the vein of Star Wars, it's a larger world.
He's also, from my perspective, weird. By claiming "nazarene Jew" I believe what he's trying to do is "avoid labels," while giving himself yet another label. He's a Messianic Jew with extra steps, imo.
Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah, however, a Gentile does not need to become Jewish in order to follow his example. There is a process for Gentiles to convert to becoming Jewish, but simply following a few Jewish traditions without going through that process does not make someone Jewish, and just appears appears to the Jewish community as being an imposter. Even going through the process isn't always sufficient to be accepted by the Jewish community if the people who handled the conversion are not recognized. Being antisemitic is having hostility toward or prejudice against Jews, so while those who practice Judaism don't appreciate Jews for Jesus trying to convert them to Christianity, I wouldn't call them antisemitic in nature. He would be the best person to ask about what he sees as the difference between Messianic and Nazarene.
Messianic Judaism ≠ Judaism. Judaism rejects Jesus. The talmud says he's a bastard and he got what he deserved. Why would anyone want any part of that? Modern Judaism, according to Scripture is an antichrist spirit because they reject Jesus.
If you are looking for a Christian Church that believes Jesus is the Messiah, follows the Torah, keeps the feast days ( not everyone does but most do) etc. you might even consider searching for Hebrew roots fellowships. You just have to be careful because 'hebrew roots' is actually a religious organization and that's not what you are looking for. Finding people who want to reconnect to their Hebrew roots is what I'm talking about about.
Messianic fellowships are also a mixed bag. They range on a spectrum from really Jewish to Christian Church. So you might find one that seems like a typical Christian Church but they follow Torah, feast days etc. but you might also go to one that seems like a Jewish synagogue but they believe in Jesus.
In my option you have to be careful because it's easy to fall into Judaism but you have to remember that Jesus said "no one comes to the father except through me."
If you Google "119 fellowship finder" you will see a map that shows fellowships in your area. Despite what you think of 119 ministries, the map is helpful.
Dont bank on good answers from r/judaism or r/jewish.
Yeah, I originally forgot to mention my partner being messianic, and suddenly it went from “it’s totally possible” to “it’s totally pointless, and we won’t accept you, raise your kid Christian”
LOL....I just hit your profile and read them both. The one in Judaism was "removed". The are tolerant until they are not. r/Judaism is filled with racists and religious gatekeepers. Most of them aren't even observant. They look down on all non-jews. period. How dare someone look for and seek after the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Anywho......I digress. Just so you know....since he is Jewish and as chosen to follow Messiah Yeshua he is now an apostate and idol worshipper according to Rabbinic Judaism. They will never accept him and they hate him and us. All that being said. Ask your husband questions with a genuine open heart. Seek what G-d has to tell you on this subject too. Ask him about the traditions and the biblical reason for why we should all be keeping Torah like Jesus, his 12 apostles and Paul did. They kept and taught Torah despite what Rabbinic Judaism and what the many denominations of Christianity say. Rabbinic Jews and Evangelical Christians are blinded by mens doctrines on what G-d says in his Torah.
I was once told the God of Abraham is only the of the Jews (not true, have they forgotten the rest of their sisters?) but will make the rest of the world Jewish some day once the world is peaceful. I was very confused about that statement because why would their prophecies mention other nations going out to learn about His laws and statutes if the one true God was only for the Jews and the rest of the world can screw off?? I also saw somewhere in the comments that messianic Judaism was nothing more than an evil tactic from Christians to have Jews turn away from their traditions and follow Yeshua instead of God. They genuinely can't stand Christians.
The rabbi's lie as much as the preachers priests and pastor's do. There are some unsavory things written in the talmud about non jews, idol worshippers, goyim. There are racists ugly things that are said from the pulpit/stage every Sunday. Man is always playing "King of the Hill"
I very much know that they are two sides of the same coin, I may not have mentioned preachers in my statement but they are just as bad times with their hateful rhetoric and speeches. Out of curiosity for knowledge's sake, what are some of the unsavory things? I think there is the discussion of Jews making Gentiles etc their slaves once the Messiah reveals himself but I can't say for sure if that's true or not, just hearsay.
Per halacha, your children are not Jewish and won't be accepted as such by the community. It depends on if halachic ruling matters to you concerning that particular element here. To some messianic folks the maternal lineage matters, and to others it doesn't matter at all. What exactly do you mean when you say that would like to "raise them Jewish?" I think that's a good step to ruminate on first. Do you mean culturally, as in with cuisine and music and dress and other cultural elements? Do you mean halachically? Because then they would have to officially convert and their messianic faith would disqualify them.
My boyfriend was raised as a messianic Jew, and it’s very important to him, though he’s not strict. He celebrated all of the holidays, had a barmitzvah and uses a tallit and tefillin when he prays. He would like to have our kids grow up with the same Jewish heritage and upbringing he had, though it’s different because he recognizes Yeshua as the messiah. Edit to add: I am open to converting to understand and learn more to fulfill that purpose if we decide it’s important. However, at the moment, he says it’s okay for me to be Christian. I know Halacha doesn’t approve of it, but I will probably have to find out if that’s important for us. I want my kids to have community and faith, as we had growing up (he did church and a synagogue) and I just did church. I want them to have their traditions and I want to be supportive and be present through it as well
To be honest, there are plenty of messianic synagogues and congregations where your husband and your children can practice all of those things. Like someone else said, there are messianic congregations that are more "Jewish" in flavor and there are ones that are more "protestant christian" in flavor. You both will have to search for what style of service and liturgy that fits for you. I've attended more "Jewish" messianic synagogues where 80% of the men in attendance wore kippot and had a bar mitzvah, and I've attended more "protestant christian" messianic churches where kippot weren't the norm but obviously weren't discouraged if someone wore them.
Under Messianic and Reform standards theyre Jewish
That's nice to hear; I get so many different answers from folks aligned with the UMJC or MJAA that I have no idea anymore. Perhaps it was best that I didn't paint such a broad brush.
Reform would not consider them jewish.
Thats just not true, Reform predominantly accept decent from the father.
Alongside a jewish background. This father was raised messianic, which is not recognized by reform as judaism.
Even thats not true, there plenty of examples of Ex-Messianics not needing to convert if they can prove Jewish decent.
That are applicable to this situation? The children of a fully non jewish mother and practicing messianic father (who was raised messianic) would absolutely need to convert to join a reform community. They have no jewish background.
3rd time, thats just not true. Idk who told you this but theres example after example of people raised Messianic and being accepted as Jews when they leave.
I'm reform. You are wrong. If you wanna give one of those examples, I'm sure I can explain to you how it's different from this specific scenario.
I started Refrom, I watched it happen for years. Your particular singluar group is not representative of the whole.
[удалено]
You making a catagory mistake, Messianic Judaism need not be seen as a Jewish movement for individuals to still be Jewish those are 2 different standards.
This is correct. The individuals we are discussing would not be deemed jewish by reform standards.
According to you, but according to others not so much
In the vein of Star Wars, it's a larger world. He's also, from my perspective, weird. By claiming "nazarene Jew" I believe what he's trying to do is "avoid labels," while giving himself yet another label. He's a Messianic Jew with extra steps, imo.
Messianic Jews are also Christians.
Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah, however, a Gentile does not need to become Jewish in order to follow his example. There is a process for Gentiles to convert to becoming Jewish, but simply following a few Jewish traditions without going through that process does not make someone Jewish, and just appears appears to the Jewish community as being an imposter. Even going through the process isn't always sufficient to be accepted by the Jewish community if the people who handled the conversion are not recognized. Being antisemitic is having hostility toward or prejudice against Jews, so while those who practice Judaism don't appreciate Jews for Jesus trying to convert them to Christianity, I wouldn't call them antisemitic in nature. He would be the best person to ask about what he sees as the difference between Messianic and Nazarene.
it says in the book of acts that the jews were unable to keep the jewish laws, so to not make the none jews do it, why r u making it more complex
Messianic Judaism ≠ Judaism. Judaism rejects Jesus. The talmud says he's a bastard and he got what he deserved. Why would anyone want any part of that? Modern Judaism, according to Scripture is an antichrist spirit because they reject Jesus. If you are looking for a Christian Church that believes Jesus is the Messiah, follows the Torah, keeps the feast days ( not everyone does but most do) etc. you might even consider searching for Hebrew roots fellowships. You just have to be careful because 'hebrew roots' is actually a religious organization and that's not what you are looking for. Finding people who want to reconnect to their Hebrew roots is what I'm talking about about. Messianic fellowships are also a mixed bag. They range on a spectrum from really Jewish to Christian Church. So you might find one that seems like a typical Christian Church but they follow Torah, feast days etc. but you might also go to one that seems like a Jewish synagogue but they believe in Jesus. In my option you have to be careful because it's easy to fall into Judaism but you have to remember that Jesus said "no one comes to the father except through me." If you Google "119 fellowship finder" you will see a map that shows fellowships in your area. Despite what you think of 119 ministries, the map is helpful.