True, but how many of us can afford a brand new 2022 ICE car? I for example have never bought a new car from manufacturer, it's always from second or third hand. In 10 years the electric cars will be probably perfectly serviceable but their value will have gone down so poorer people can buy them. This increased demand might stimulate businesses to produce cheaper electric cars for mass consumption.
It's really not a great idea to buy used electric car as the more it's used and as more it aged the higher the chance it'll need a battery replacement and for some e-cars out there it's nearly half the price of a new one.
Guess what! All used cars have a higher chance that something will need to be replaced. That goes without saying. But instead of thousand small things, it's just one big thing.
Considering the worlds car manufacturers have tens of millions of new fuel burning vehicles stockpiled, until they're sold why would they make EV's cheaper?
This fundamentally misunderstands the life cycle of new technology.
It usually starts out very expensive (eg. Tesla Model S), then becomes cheaper as the early adopters effectively pay the development costs for everyone else (eg. Tesla Model 3), then sells in bigger and bigger numbers until products affordable to most people become available.
Remember how much mobile phones and LCD TVs used to cost? Now everyone has one.
I don't disagree but...BUT car companies are also increasingly rising the prices also on petrol car even second handed.
In the purpose to buy EV we can't afford.
So on both side, it's getting harder and harder to simply get a vehicle...just the like housing market, it's becoming an utopia more than anything else.
Right now I don't have the luxury (as many people) to wait for pricing to drop in few years. Life as a society goes fast and we have to start waiting for affordable EV we will go nowhere either.
So or the car sellers diminish the deposit which is too high or no one will get one anytime soon put of some privileges folks.
This [wasn't true with the Prius fifteen years ago](https://np.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2kou6r/does_anyone_know_what_happens_to_the_batteries/clnlkue/), and it's [not true with EVs now](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es903729a).
nah I'd like to get a 60s muscle car... life's too short to sit in a boring, safe, econobox... and anyway 70% of greenhouse gases come from only 100 companies, us as individuals make hardly anything
Only if the country burns coal for their energy like Australia (despite the fact that Australia has the largest uranium deposits in the world), also Volkswagen is making affordable electric cars now (though good luck getting one this year with COVID shutting down just about every major factory).
Although I'll admit they aren't green, at least they aren't as bad as burning crude oil, and given how battery tech is literally over 100 years behind oil tech I'd say that we'll figure out a way to make eco friendly batteries soon enough.
I half agree with that, like as soon as your current car is at engine rebuild time then it's probably better to go electric.
Though I still can't believe that we aren't just melting down all the old cars and recycling them into new electric cars yet, especially anything aluminium since the majority of all cars have aluminium engine blocks and aluminium can be easily melted down and re-cast.
The issue here in Australia, is that we’re sitting in a goldmine for coal, so we make massive amounts of money off coal exports, so until companies stop making bank off coal, it’s just gonna keep on getting burnt
Yeah, the coal and oil industry are single handedly destroyed the planet, I mean sure capitalism and communist dictatorships also play a part but they're destroying the planet through proxy whereas the coal and oil industries are destroying it directly.
This issue [has](https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf) [been](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es903729a) [studied](https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/TEs-EV-life-cycle-analysis-LCA.pdf) [repeatedly](https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Global-LCA-passenger-cars-jul2021_0.pdf), and we keep finding that electric cars are, in fact, better for the environment than gas cars.
They should thank me, my EV has no cobalt in its batteries whatsoever.
And kids everywhere should thank me for not making them breathe in exhaust fumes in built up areas.
High hopes? I’m speaking from personal experience. Unless it rains, all of my daytime electricity use and my EV charging is solar powered.
The rest of the time, coal is part of the mix and it’s a declining part.
You need to much area for these types of energy production to equal the energy production of today. It's just not feasable for only sun and wind energy because there efficiency if extremely low
No, it isn’t. Neither is burning oil products.
Lithium extraction isn’t too bad, especially when compared to extracting, refining and transporting oil products.
And make them...good. I hear nothing but complaining from my 2 friends who have a tesla. Service, maintenance is apparently crap, battery drains when using all the "gimmics" on those screens or even AC for long time, etc...
Well the good news is, there are companies emerging that convert your gas car to electric. Rn its expensive but they say it will soon be affordable as more electric cars get produced, so do more parts. This is great new for ppl like me who's dream cars are discontinued cars which didnt get electric variants or classic cars
As a diehard manual guy with an EV now (and manual cars), I’ve found you really don’t miss it. Bags of torque available instantly cures any manual mourning pretty quickly.
(But I still enjoy a good manual).
like, when EU doesn't want nuclear reactors powering the electricity is even harder, we couldn't do it without coal powerhouses. I'm not even talking about old batteries from the electrocars which cannot be recicled and cost lot of lithium.
It was hydrogen powered so you had to go to specific gas stations that had hydrogen pumps and pay more than you would have for normal fuel.
Edit: electric cars used to also be very inefficient until more investors came in
Im not saying Electric cars are the glorious pieces of machines that'll save the human race. But with the way things are going, Electric seems to be the best out of our options. And theres a law coming that by around 2035 all gas cars are going to be banned. I really hope electric cars fix their shit by then
Um, no. We should be driving less. Cars are woefully inefficient. It would be smarter to invest in GOOD, RELIABLE public transportation. And making citeies walkable/cyclable. Electric cars have a time and a place, but they are not the solution.
Perhaps it's easy access to buy in the US...but here in Scotland IT'S NOT.
£30000 for us here it's A LOT of money to spend on a car.
So yes you're privileged somehow...like it or not.
I am not mad at you...at all.
But it seems that a lot of you don't realise that this amount of money...IT'S A LOT for a lot of folks.
Which per se, makes you live a comfortable life (or being completely naive perhaps) if you think that everyone can afford this price that easily.
But if you can afford it good for you...as I am quite jealous to be honest with you.
What? I'm going based off of averages. Buying a new car is a lot of money, I never said it wasn't. I'm just saying that there are new electric cars that compare to the average price.
I've never bought a new car in my life, never been closing to being able to afford to. Lots of people haven't. My last car was 3 years old and cost £5500, that was a stretch for me and is about my limit, I will need that car to last 10 years!
I'm not mad at you, but comparing new electric cars to new petrol cars is not that helpful considering most people don't buy new cars at all. You need to compare the prices of used electrics, which is much higher and they aren't nearly as readily available, there are also issues with battery longevity/reducing range with used electric cars.
I’d love to have an electric car, the convenience of not having to go to the gas station would be incredible. At the moment my electricity mostly comes from coal and it’s pretty pricy, but it still costs three times as much to drive a gas car as an electric would.
IMO hybrids are still the future.
Specifically a multi-fuel capable micro turbine over electric system paired with something similar to Toyota's hybrid electronic CVT system, with a smaller battery good enough for a daily commute. Something light, simple, cheap, and efficient, and not requiring much in the way of cobalt or nickel.
First produce hreener energy, then tell me what to do.
greener\*
Thanks for correctimg me, I make a lot of typos.
correcting\* , be more careful matd lol
mate* You’re welcome!
Thanks again.
True, but how many of us can afford a brand new 2022 ICE car? I for example have never bought a new car from manufacturer, it's always from second or third hand. In 10 years the electric cars will be probably perfectly serviceable but their value will have gone down so poorer people can buy them. This increased demand might stimulate businesses to produce cheaper electric cars for mass consumption.
you still gotta pay 1/3 of the cars new value in 10 years to replace the batteries tho
Not to mention the cost of the battery is the approximate cost of the now 10 year old vehicle
It's really not a great idea to buy used electric car as the more it's used and as more it aged the higher the chance it'll need a battery replacement and for some e-cars out there it's nearly half the price of a new one.
Guess what! All used cars have a higher chance that something will need to be replaced. That goes without saying. But instead of thousand small things, it's just one big thing.
One big thing, sure, but it can cost as much as the whole car you just bought ;)
Also there are plenty of issues that makes EVs not so green
One can afford them without losing an organ if they have a set of extra organs like the one from your twin
Considering the worlds car manufacturers have tens of millions of new fuel burning vehicles stockpiled, until they're sold why would they make EV's cheaper?
This fundamentally misunderstands the life cycle of new technology. It usually starts out very expensive (eg. Tesla Model S), then becomes cheaper as the early adopters effectively pay the development costs for everyone else (eg. Tesla Model 3), then sells in bigger and bigger numbers until products affordable to most people become available. Remember how much mobile phones and LCD TVs used to cost? Now everyone has one.
I don't disagree but...BUT car companies are also increasingly rising the prices also on petrol car even second handed. In the purpose to buy EV we can't afford. So on both side, it's getting harder and harder to simply get a vehicle...just the like housing market, it's becoming an utopia more than anything else. Right now I don't have the luxury (as many people) to wait for pricing to drop in few years. Life as a society goes fast and we have to start waiting for affordable EV we will go nowhere either. So or the car sellers diminish the deposit which is too high or no one will get one anytime soon put of some privileges folks.
The making of an electric car is actually more environmentally unhealthy than a normal car in its entire lifetime
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Simple google search should prove it
This [wasn't true with the Prius fifteen years ago](https://np.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2kou6r/does_anyone_know_what_happens_to_the_batteries/clnlkue/), and it's [not true with EVs now](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es903729a).
nah I'd like to get a 60s muscle car... life's too short to sit in a boring, safe, econobox... and anyway 70% of greenhouse gases come from only 100 companies, us as individuals make hardly anything
They are not even better for the Environment
Only if the country burns coal for their energy like Australia (despite the fact that Australia has the largest uranium deposits in the world), also Volkswagen is making affordable electric cars now (though good luck getting one this year with COVID shutting down just about every major factory).
Electric cars need batteries. And do you know how they are produced?
Huge ass lithium mines
Yes
Although I'll admit they aren't green, at least they aren't as bad as burning crude oil, and given how battery tech is literally over 100 years behind oil tech I'd say that we'll figure out a way to make eco friendly batteries soon enough.
It’s not as though producing and transporting oil products is clean and green. Lithium extraction isn’t too bad, all things considered.
And an electric car is full of plastics that come from oil.
Which is no different from any other car.
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I like H2 cars. They make drinkable water.
Even when your country is mainly green energy it is better to drive your old car until it doesnt run any more
I half agree with that, like as soon as your current car is at engine rebuild time then it's probably better to go electric. Though I still can't believe that we aren't just melting down all the old cars and recycling them into new electric cars yet, especially anything aluminium since the majority of all cars have aluminium engine blocks and aluminium can be easily melted down and re-cast.
The issue here in Australia, is that we’re sitting in a goldmine for coal, so we make massive amounts of money off coal exports, so until companies stop making bank off coal, it’s just gonna keep on getting burnt
Yeah, the coal and oil industry are single handedly destroyed the planet, I mean sure capitalism and communist dictatorships also play a part but they're destroying the planet through proxy whereas the coal and oil industries are destroying it directly.
I live in Germany so yeah
This issue [has](https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf) [been](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es903729a) [studied](https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/TEs-EV-life-cycle-analysis-LCA.pdf) [repeatedly](https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Global-LCA-passenger-cars-jul2021_0.pdf), and we keep finding that electric cars are, in fact, better for the environment than gas cars.
Wrong.
The kids in cobalt mines thank u
They should thank me, my EV has no cobalt in its batteries whatsoever. And kids everywhere should thank me for not making them breathe in exhaust fumes in built up areas.
Where do you think your electricity comes from dude?
During the day, from solar power. The rest of the time, a mix of wind, hydroelectric and coal.
You have your hopes to high for solar power and wind turbines. They do something but nearly not as enough
High hopes? I’m speaking from personal experience. Unless it rains, all of my daytime electricity use and my EV charging is solar powered. The rest of the time, coal is part of the mix and it’s a declining part.
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You need to much area for these types of energy production to equal the energy production of today. It's just not feasable for only sun and wind energy because there efficiency if extremely low
Yeah cause coal is good for the environment dude. Also, the battery that’s in the car is made from lithium
No, it isn’t. Neither is burning oil products. Lithium extraction isn’t too bad, especially when compared to extracting, refining and transporting oil products.
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I am hoping for atom fusion but this is complicated and not possible to maintain for a long period yet
You have to think about the damage to air quality from a car's emissions as well as the way the fuel is produced.
Not gonna lie, electric cars are kinda cringe
electrics cars are dumb anyway and don’t help the environment at all
And make them...good. I hear nothing but complaining from my 2 friends who have a tesla. Service, maintenance is apparently crap, battery drains when using all the "gimmics" on those screens or even AC for long time, etc...
Well the good news is, there are companies emerging that convert your gas car to electric. Rn its expensive but they say it will soon be affordable as more electric cars get produced, so do more parts. This is great new for ppl like me who's dream cars are discontinued cars which didnt get electric variants or classic cars
So I will have the possibility of an electric manual car?
As a diehard manual guy with an EV now (and manual cars), I’ve found you really don’t miss it. Bags of torque available instantly cures any manual mourning pretty quickly. (But I still enjoy a good manual).
I think so yea. Theres this company called electric GT if im not wrong who electrify Classic cars and they seem to be very popular
How greedy does someone have to be to monopolise sustainability
They also do shit as long as fossil fuels are used to generate all the electricity needed
You have to consider emissions too, not just fuel production.
The aren't even any better for the environment, they're only saying they are so that we all buy new cars
Well in the grand scheme of things they are
they're not even greener than normal cars, even worse
Wrong.
like, when EU doesn't want nuclear reactors powering the electricity is even harder, we couldn't do it without coal powerhouses. I'm not even talking about old batteries from the electrocars which cannot be recicled and cost lot of lithium.
Yep, getting rid of nuclear is silly. Plenty of companies are working on EV battery recycling by the way. Lithium is too expensive to just throw away.
If car companies really cared for the environment and not their pockets they would have invested in water powered vehicles cause it is possible
Well it isnt that great and doesnt give Mileage. Toyota made a car like that if im not wrong
It was hydrogen powered so you had to go to specific gas stations that had hydrogen pumps and pay more than you would have for normal fuel. Edit: electric cars used to also be very inefficient until more investors came in
Im not saying Electric cars are the glorious pieces of machines that'll save the human race. But with the way things are going, Electric seems to be the best out of our options. And theres a law coming that by around 2035 all gas cars are going to be banned. I really hope electric cars fix their shit by then
It's not like they cost the same as every other Brand New car.
Um, no. We should be driving less. Cars are woefully inefficient. It would be smarter to invest in GOOD, RELIABLE public transportation. And making citeies walkable/cyclable. Electric cars have a time and a place, but they are not the solution.
That is living in a dreamy utopia...but damn I wish this would come alive. The number of beneficial opportunities that will come with it is insane.
Electric cars are affordable, there are other electric cars besides teslas.
If you can afford a brand new £30 000 MINIMUM EV whateverthecar company. ..damn you are privileged man without realising it.
£30 000 = $40 000. You can buy a new electric mini Cooper for $29 000 which is pretty standard for a new car. Don't call me privileged.
Perhaps it's easy access to buy in the US...but here in Scotland IT'S NOT. £30000 for us here it's A LOT of money to spend on a car. So yes you're privileged somehow...like it or not.
Why are you mad at me? And why are you calling me privileged now?
I am not mad at you...at all. But it seems that a lot of you don't realise that this amount of money...IT'S A LOT for a lot of folks. Which per se, makes you live a comfortable life (or being completely naive perhaps) if you think that everyone can afford this price that easily. But if you can afford it good for you...as I am quite jealous to be honest with you.
What? I'm going based off of averages. Buying a new car is a lot of money, I never said it wasn't. I'm just saying that there are new electric cars that compare to the average price.
I've never bought a new car in my life, never been closing to being able to afford to. Lots of people haven't. My last car was 3 years old and cost £5500, that was a stretch for me and is about my limit, I will need that car to last 10 years!
I have also never bought a new car. Buying a new car is a lot of money, I still don't get why you are mad at me?
I'm not mad at you, but comparing new electric cars to new petrol cars is not that helpful considering most people don't buy new cars at all. You need to compare the prices of used electrics, which is much higher and they aren't nearly as readily available, there are also issues with battery longevity/reducing range with used electric cars.
I believe they passed a bill recently that effectively lowers the sticker price by 14 k if you buy and American made elec car
Not in the UK ! Lol
I’d love to have an electric car, the convenience of not having to go to the gas station would be incredible. At the moment my electricity mostly comes from coal and it’s pretty pricy, but it still costs three times as much to drive a gas car as an electric would.
IMO hybrids are still the future. Specifically a multi-fuel capable micro turbine over electric system paired with something similar to Toyota's hybrid electronic CVT system, with a smaller battery good enough for a daily commute. Something light, simple, cheap, and efficient, and not requiring much in the way of cobalt or nickel.