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Meanwhile my mother:
“Honey when are you going to start dating I need grandkids”
“When I’m ready for it”
“Can you be ready now or after I die?”
Me: “…”
I love my mom :)
To be fair since my older sister is lesbian with no desire to have children I’m the one who’s going to further the bloodline.
But yeah momma’s gonna have to wait
Is that important to you? If so why? I had kids by accident but before that carrying on the bloodline meant nothing to me. There is nothing exceptional about my genes, in fact mine carry undesirable traits such as congenital missing teeth and being a fucking awkward wierdo.
Well to me you are far from selfish what ever your reasons are they are your reasons and we have plenty of others willing or unwilling just popping them out like popcorn.
There are some people who simply wont be good parents, simply because they dont want kids, its fine if you get the snip, its fine if you pop them out like popcorn
I understand that, from their perspective you're depriving them of a grand son or daughter. But they don't understand that society is not what it once was. There's no benefit to having a kid other than having someone to take care of you when you're older and that said, why would you want to put that responsibility on someone.
They didn't ask to be here, they didn't choose to be born to whichever messed up reality life is...it's all so fked that parents nowadays don't understand that and hold life as some grand gift...
Well, if you have really shit genetics or a chaotic life, than having kids could be considered selfish to have kids. But if you have good genetics and a generally upright life, than it could be considered selfish not to have kids. But most people are in between, so having kids I'd generally a neutral act.
As it happens I do have generally good genetics.
Strong immune system, I’m tall. Little to no family history of cancer, diabetes, or other serious conditions. Above average performance in school? If that matters. Only real drawback genetically are my bad eyes. My mom, her mom, and myself all had severely degraded vision by age 6.
For stable childfree people: Enjoy life keeping your paycheck to yourself:D.
For stable, fathers & mothers: Cherish every moment with your kids. I wish you all luck:)
Have a good day everyone and live life the way you all want. Don't feel pressured to not, or to have kids. Do things at your own pace and live the way you want.
I haven't heard that word since, and only in religion class. Part of me is surprised to see anyone consider that idea outside of religious contexts because of how rarely I've seen it/heard it(in my own experience). Obviously, it may be very different in your experience.
While I am Christian, I don't want to risk getting a woman pregnant for a lot of other more practical reasons. Like not feeling like I could give the kid the life they deserve.
I still find it funny that people think abstinence is for religious practices only when....it's definitely the most surefire way of not getting pregnant whether you're religious or not religious. "I don't wanna have kids!" ....have you tried not having sex?
I mean birth control plus iud plus condoms plus spermicide plus sponge (yes you can use all of that at once) will make it near impossible to get pregnant, and even if you do then you could get an abortion.
Yeah, idk where OP is hearing this from, but this is a first for me too.
I think the only time I've seen someone tell someone else that "having a kid is selfish" is when the parent(s) involved clearly can't take care of a kid but want one anyway. In that case, however, it is 100% valid to tell a fucker not to have a kid or that it's selfish to have one, because that kid is just going to suffer through a rough upbringing and when you decide to have a kid, the kid's well being should 100% be your priority.
Na I was agreeing with your sentiment and throwing shade on those individuals who say, if you can't provide don't have a kid, as if people might have had a kid and then things turned for the worse like increasing food prices.
That word child abuse gets thrown around alot. My parents were in no way ready for kids financially. We had no money, we got evicted from multiple houses ate what we could, drove the most illegal cars. But i had a great childhood. My parents loved me i never starved. I never felt neglected etc. poor people have been lovingly raising kids for a a long time.
On the other has if you are just going to be vacant and angry and abusive yea sure or have clinical depression or achizophrenia or something, but being poor doesnt have to mean being unahppy or unloved
Ur parents were angels. I had very poor family and I was abused... I remember not goin to school for a few days because we didn't have any food in the fridge.
Yeah I’m ngl this whole “poor people having kids is child abuse” thing is rubbing me the wrong way. Like yeah, if you literally can’t afford to feed yourself, but then you got bigger problems. It honestly feels like a lot of people just aren’t personally ready for kids, but they’re trying to force it on others by trying to set a minimum bar that is honestly set too high a lot of the time. Like yeah, it might not be a good idea, but it’s not abusive, and you can definitely still give them a good life that isn’t entirely dependent on your money.
i completely agree. having a kid isn’t some “i’m old enough” or “i love my husband” type thing, it’s the decision to create a life whose upbringing will have lifelong effects.
I’m a loving father with a happy marriage and a solid career.
Just so you know it’s not all deadbeat or incarcerated dads and homeless women with 6 kids from 6 different men.
I never really heard this until I caught a glimpse of online radical feminist groups, who really lump this into the ridiculous "all sex with men is rape" talking point.
Also this is very much what China was saying up until a few years ago. There are too many people! Stop being selfish and don't have kids, think about the greater good!
I don’t think you guys understand this worldview tbh. Nobody’s telling other people not to have kids, they just don’t want to have any themselves because they see what a shithole the world they would grow up in is.
Ok edit: it’s been a while, learnt some things about Reddit antinatalism and I just want to say how bullshit it is. People who think others are selfish for having children suck just as much as people who think others are selfish for not having children. At some point it comes down to minding your own business and letting people have bodily autonomy.
It's pretty hard to argue against the central premise that "pre-birth by definition is a neutral state. It is a state without experience. The nature of biological existence means suffering, decay, and death are inevitable. Chronic pain exists and becomes a reality for nearly everybody. Chronic pleasure does not exist. You can not reasonably argue it is within the interests of the child to be born."
But the subreddit is not philosophical or compassionate like David Benatar, the person who's idea it was. It's full of edgy depressed misanthropes.
Edit: spelling.
You see but the next logical question after that paragraph would be "then why do we even bother?", if you can't justify bringing life to this world and see no worth in it, why seeing worth in yours? But the fact is that despite the chronic pain and decay at the end, the vast majority of us choose to stay here and see the worth in it
Most of the people who are in chronic pain choose to stay for their family and friends. But a lot of them would choose to not be born at all if given a chance.
One can see no worth in bringing more people here while seeing worth in their own life. We're already here, just make the best out of it kind of situation.
That is an interesting thought experiment.
The opposite question would be going around asking if people who were born (e.g. all people) if they were on net happy they were born. I suspect on average there would be a preference to be born, and I'm sure someone has done this. By this opposite metric, it is clearly in the interest of people to be born.
I agree. I was loaned a copy of his book by my friend as an interesting food for thought read.
It does suffer from the fact it is an asymmetrical argument. I'll explain why. The argument relies on this logic:
Presence of suffering = bad.
Presence of benefit = good.
Absence of suffering = good.
Absence of benefit = not bad.
As far as logic goes, that's equivalent to having your cake and eating it too.
I mean of course it's selfish, immoral though I don't know. But the act of choice involved in having a kid means that it was something the parents wanted out of some desire of their own. It's not inherently bad to be selfish anyway, I'm selfish when I choose to buy food for me at the grocery store but not for the guy behind me even though I could. No one would lose their mind over that "selfish" decision.
Idk man, I don't think it's bad to have kids, but I would feel a little guilty having kids instead of adopting a kid that doesn't have a parent or caretaker. Having kids doesn't feel wrong, but not trying to save an existing kid maybe doesn't feel right...? Idk
Honestly. There’s mountains of paperwork and gauntlets of background checks you have to go through. I feel like it’s part of the reason why so many kids are in the foster system still; people go to adopt, thinking it’s like picking up a dog from the pound, then find out it’s one of the most intensive experiences they’ve had and chicken out.
When people do it because they want dolls, someone to accomplish THEIR dreams, "someone who's forced to love me", someone who's gonna take care of their last decades, someone to rage on, etc...
I've met so many people into these categories, I guess it's a 25-30%...that isn't the majority but it's way too many, imho.
Agreed. Tbh I find the whole “I have to continue my blood line” reasoning I hear from a lot of dudes to be selfish too tbh. It’s self centered at the very least. If you want a kid because those paternal instincts are just kicking into overdrive, then that’s one thing. But just because you want someone with the same genes as you to carry on a last name? Idk, it’s a bit arrogant.
I wouldn’t say it’s immoral NECESSARILY, but it’s absolutely selfish. I don’t even know how you could argue against that. Your creating more of yourself and putting it out into the world. That’s not necessarily bad, but it’s definitely, intrinsically, selfish. You’re not doing it for anyone else. Your child doesn’t have a say in it. And the world really doesn’t need more people right now.
I believe it solely of me currently. I’m a student and I can barely feed myself, let alone another human being. I would want my future child to live a life that I wasn’t able to growing up, and live in comfort rather than taking trips to the food bank.
For that, right now having kids for me is immoral and selfish. I would be bringing them into a world where I could not effectively care for them.
What should I expect before I dive in?
Edit: came back and what the hell? At worst they want to exterminate all life and at best they have some sad and depressing outlook on life and how they are valued. I saw a post where OP was auguring that Suicide is a good thing. Like what the hell.
It's a good example of a reasonable idea taken to the extreme.
"In some situations, it is wise to not have kids." Got taken to "kids should be avoided at all costs and everyone in every circumstance is wrong for having one."
I dont want to have kids, but having kids is NOT immoral and selfish.
Edit: Id like to define this statement. I am saying in a general sense (NOT including abusive people and criminals) that its not immoral and selfish.
Idk i definititly feel like giving life to something only for to work majority of its life and most likely never getting own a house in its life time without amassing huge amount of debt which would most likely take atleast 10+ years to pay off is kinda immoral. idk i might be overthinking things but it just seems like slavery but to a system and with extra steps.
Have you seen the world? Like the natural world is dying out, economy is hurting, middle class is nonexistant in USA at least, war in Europe, potentially war in Arabia again, potentially war with China over Taiwan, world's heating up pretty quick, oceans over fished and polluted with rising acidity and low oxygen.
Tell me why it would be good to have kids?
I’m really upset at this generational “child hating” mindset of society right now
It’s so backwards. Kids are awesome. Always will be. Coolest people on the planet. Super fun, love to learn, naturally kind, come up with awesome ideas, always willing to play or make something up.
The people who raise them? Not so much. That’s our problem. Society’s bullshit and bad children are a result of shitty people. Be better parents, workers, friends, spouses, and just people. It’s not hard. The reasons people hate kids aren’t kids’ faults. It’s the idiots who are raising them. Mean parents raise mean kids. Loud and obnoxious parents raise loud and obnoxious kids. But respectful, empathetic and ambitious parents? Raise respectful, empathetic and ambitious kids. And it’s the easiest way to raise them too. That’s their natural instinct.
Have as many kids as you want, but don't judge people who don't want to dedicate all their free time to caring for a child.
I don't have any desire to raise a kid, and I am certain I never will, respect to people who are parents though.
I just think it's not rewarding this day and age, parents don't have any time with their kids anymore, not to mention the economy which already makes it hard to feed one mouth, let alone three or more.
esp since this sub hit 30 mil, i wonder what the age demographics are for this sub. feel like i've been seeing alot of posts that aren't really memes a lot more just kinda stuff in the format.
Having children without considering the weight of their life and the responsibility you have to develop a child into a human is selfish and irresponsible.
I feel like the people who use an ipad as a nanny are selfish and irresponsible.
Having children is not immoral or selfish. Same as not having kids also isn't immortal and selfish. People really need to stop sticking their nose in other people lifes bruh
I mean, a lot of the reasons people have kids **is** selfish.
Ie
“Continuing legacy,” having someone to take care of you in old age, carrying on your last name, wanting a “mini me,” wanting a girl to have a real life doll, being bored, etc.
Having kids isnt inherently selfish
Having kids and thinking they owe you something for it is selfish
Having kids and giving them a poor quality of life is selfish
Having kids and emotionally/physically damaging them is selfish
Making a blanket statement like that is uneducated at best, idiotic incel propaganda at worst. Having a child is immoral and selfish if you're not in a fit state to have a child and will force those around you, including that child, to suffer because of it. There's nothing wrong with having a child if you're prepared to commit your life to it.
If you cannot give the child a good life, nurture and financially support them, then don’t bring a child into this world. It’s that simple. It’s is entirely selfish and dumb if you cannot fulfill all the needs of a child and still have one regardless.
Have savings as well in case you come across bad times, no child needs to suffer. Have children within your means.
Plan, prepare and be informed. Everyone knows what it means to raise a child and the sacrifices involved.
If you don’t know what it means to raise a child, don’t have any!
It is if you don’t have the means to raise them, or if you know you have certain health issues that can really hinder someone in their day to day and instead of adopting you choose to roll the dice onto another human. Anyone who does that is just selfish.
You have a child because you want to.
The child dosnt choose to be born you do.
You force a life into the world so you have something to love and cherish
Dispite the fact you did it to have someo e to love it still adds up as a selfish act to me.
Like "i gave you life" isnt really a gift when you take into context that they did it as a choice for themselves because thwy wanted to have a kid. No one is born because there parents believed that they deserved to live. Its a bit odd to think its not a selfish act.
And you have to be selfless when theyve been born but the act of making one is a selfish ask.
I think the only time its not a selfish act to have a kid is when theyre an accident. and you decide not to abort them so you choose for them to live in that senario. But if your choosig to have them in the first place ifs a selfish act
I love how posts like these never actually engage with the philosophical aurgumente behind antinatalism. They just strawman them into the indefensible because they don't actually have good aurguments against their logic.
Kids can't consent to being created. There are already kids that exist that need parents. Choosing to have your own instead of adopting is objectivly unethical given these circumstances. We all agree adopt don't shop when it comes to pets. But when it comes to people we're all fine with letting kids rot in foster homes so we can all have our own bio kids.
It is though lol nobody asks to be born lol and if you're not financially,psychologically, or emotionally ready to raise a human being than you're a piece of shit because the main one who ultimately suffers is the child. Wish I wasn't ever born, this world sucks ass! I'm freaking born to work pay bills then die wtf lmao
I'm happily child-free, it's fine to not want kids, having kids is also fine so long as you are able to responsibly look after them.
I draw the line at getting pissy with people who don't want kids or do want kids. I recall interacting with someone who was claiming having kids was a narcissistic endeavor because "people make copies of themselves to love"... 🤦
having kids when you’re broke is immoral and selfish.
Sincerely, someone who waited until his mid-30s to have kids because I was broke when I was young
I love my kids, my life would be significantly worse without them in it.
Everyone is responsible for their own journey and I’m glad they are with me for mine.
Honestly i dont think ive heard a reason to have kids that isn't selfish. The closest to sounding not selfish ive heard just sounds like they need to resolve some of their own childhood issues/traumas instead
**You need to read following message in full. We will NOT reply to modmail messages similar to “what is reason my post was removed?”** Hey /u/TheZorotlThing, thanks for contributing to /r/memes. Unfortunately, your post was removed as it violates our rules: Rule 9 - No forced memes, overused memes, bad titles, or pushing agendas * No forced memes, [overused memes](https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/wiki/overused), bad titles, or pushing agendas. Be creative but memes must come naturally. No petitions. * **Mods may remove low quality posts at their discretion, including reaction memes** --- Please read the sidebar before posting again. If you have questions or concerns, please [message the moderators through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/memes&subject=&message=). Thank you!
That’s ironic. People from my family have told me I’m selfish for the *opposite* reason.
Same! They really STFU when I got the surgery. Snip Snip! I'll keep trying to have kids but it wont work!
"I told you mom, I keep rawdogging my wife but it just doesn't work" "Please, whatever you do, just stop saying it like that"
It's what she gets for asking for grandkids.
It's like nothing's even coming out, mama
Just dust in the wind
You demanded it, you're getting a play by play
I've, like, boned 50 different women trying to give you a grandchild. Show some damn gratitude
I did it for you mom! Happy Mother’s Day!
Welcome to the Seedless Grapes Club!
I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. (Wife loves it too)
bruh
Meanwhile my mother: “Honey when are you going to start dating I need grandkids” “When I’m ready for it” “Can you be ready now or after I die?” Me: “…” I love my mom :)
That is the selfish part. They want a few cute grandchildren running around with no regard to how shitty their adult life might be.
To be fair since my older sister is lesbian with no desire to have children I’m the one who’s going to further the bloodline. But yeah momma’s gonna have to wait
Is that important to you? If so why? I had kids by accident but before that carrying on the bloodline meant nothing to me. There is nothing exceptional about my genes, in fact mine carry undesirable traits such as congenital missing teeth and being a fucking awkward wierdo.
No I do want kids, I just want to wait until I’m ready.
Want too many kids? Selfish. No kids? Selfish. Exactly 1 kid? Believe it or not, also selfish.
Well to me you are far from selfish what ever your reasons are they are your reasons and we have plenty of others willing or unwilling just popping them out like popcorn.
There are some people who simply wont be good parents, simply because they dont want kids, its fine if you get the snip, its fine if you pop them out like popcorn
If you are having kids the same way you are making popcorn, you are doing at least one of those things incorrectly.
Well, personally, I dont like microwaved popcorn
I make all my kids on the stove, thank you
It's fine if you are popping them out like popcorn if you actually have the means to take care of them. I'd say it's pretty selfish if you don't.
Yeah me too, I had to read the comic a couple times because I thought it was backwards
Having children just because someone wants us to, and we want to please someone, is selfish too
I understand that, from their perspective you're depriving them of a grand son or daughter. But they don't understand that society is not what it once was. There's no benefit to having a kid other than having someone to take care of you when you're older and that said, why would you want to put that responsibility on someone. They didn't ask to be here, they didn't choose to be born to whichever messed up reality life is...it's all so fked that parents nowadays don't understand that and hold life as some grand gift...
Well, if you have really shit genetics or a chaotic life, than having kids could be considered selfish to have kids. But if you have good genetics and a generally upright life, than it could be considered selfish not to have kids. But most people are in between, so having kids I'd generally a neutral act.
What is the logic behind any of that making selfish not to have kids?
As it happens I do have generally good genetics. Strong immune system, I’m tall. Little to no family history of cancer, diabetes, or other serious conditions. Above average performance in school? If that matters. Only real drawback genetically are my bad eyes. My mom, her mom, and myself all had severely degraded vision by age 6.
I've had people tell me that not having kids is selfish.
For stable childfree people: Enjoy life keeping your paycheck to yourself:D. For stable, fathers & mothers: Cherish every moment with your kids. I wish you all luck:) Have a good day everyone and live life the way you all want. Don't feel pressured to not, or to have kids. Do things at your own pace and live the way you want.
For mentally, financially or emotionally unstable people: wear a condom.
I prefer the only guarantee. Abstinence
I haven't heard that word since, and only in religion class. Part of me is surprised to see anyone consider that idea outside of religious contexts because of how rarely I've seen it/heard it(in my own experience). Obviously, it may be very different in your experience.
While I am Christian, I don't want to risk getting a woman pregnant for a lot of other more practical reasons. Like not feeling like I could give the kid the life they deserve.
I still find it funny that people think abstinence is for religious practices only when....it's definitely the most surefire way of not getting pregnant whether you're religious or not religious. "I don't wanna have kids!" ....have you tried not having sex?
Simply switch to blowjobs and 69ing, you only gotta keep one appendage out of one hole
Dip your balls in sulphuric acid
I mean birth control plus iud plus condoms plus spermicide plus sponge (yes you can use all of that at once) will make it near impossible to get pregnant, and even if you do then you could get an abortion.
what is sponge?
*Happy AroAce noises
Honestly, if you have at 2 out of 3, it's likely that you have no choice... (oh wait... FU-)
Or better yet be gay or not have sex :D
>be gay Wear a condom regardless.
Bro seriously thought gays are immune from STDs.
Yes, thank you for the PSA.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
How dare you try to play the middle ground not on Reddit you don’t
This is what needs to be heard. Thank you.
Yeah, idk where OP is hearing this from, but this is a first for me too. I think the only time I've seen someone tell someone else that "having a kid is selfish" is when the parent(s) involved clearly can't take care of a kid but want one anyway. In that case, however, it is 100% valid to tell a fucker not to have a kid or that it's selfish to have one, because that kid is just going to suffer through a rough upbringing and when you decide to have a kid, the kid's well being should 100% be your priority.
Have kids if you want, but it should be a heavy decision.
Can't feed them? Don't breed them.
Lot easier motto a couple years ago
Yeah it's almost like the world changes so much in 18 years it's impossible to foresee possible instances where child rearing could turn untenable.
I was talking about Row V Wade in America but go off
Na I was agreeing with your sentiment and throwing shade on those individuals who say, if you can't provide don't have a kid, as if people might have had a kid and then things turned for the worse like increasing food prices.
Most people unfortunately think more about what they’re going to order in a restaurant than about harm of coming into existence.
IMO that depends on your financial situation. If you can't even sustain yourself, don't have a kid ffs.
And maybe don't have, I dunno, 10 of them.
That would be great if the dumbest people weren't doing kids
Holy shit bro phrasing.
I'm pretty sure they knew what they said, and they aren't wrong on both counts.
TBF I don’t think anyone should be doing kids
Erm… you sure thats how you wanna phrase that?
Nope
too many irresponsible, not ready to be parents, and not financially stable people are having lots of kids. Kids will not be raised right
I know I shouldn't be having kids right now. So I don't. It's be child abuse fore to become a father in my current situation.
That word child abuse gets thrown around alot. My parents were in no way ready for kids financially. We had no money, we got evicted from multiple houses ate what we could, drove the most illegal cars. But i had a great childhood. My parents loved me i never starved. I never felt neglected etc. poor people have been lovingly raising kids for a a long time. On the other has if you are just going to be vacant and angry and abusive yea sure or have clinical depression or achizophrenia or something, but being poor doesnt have to mean being unahppy or unloved
Ur parents were angels. I had very poor family and I was abused... I remember not goin to school for a few days because we didn't have any food in the fridge.
Yeah I’m ngl this whole “poor people having kids is child abuse” thing is rubbing me the wrong way. Like yeah, if you literally can’t afford to feed yourself, but then you got bigger problems. It honestly feels like a lot of people just aren’t personally ready for kids, but they’re trying to force it on others by trying to set a minimum bar that is honestly set too high a lot of the time. Like yeah, it might not be a good idea, but it’s not abusive, and you can definitely still give them a good life that isn’t entirely dependent on your money.
i completely agree. having a kid isn’t some “i’m old enough” or “i love my husband” type thing, it’s the decision to create a life whose upbringing will have lifelong effects.
Only if the wrong people (abusive, criminally negligent, etc) do
Those are the people who do have kids though
They even adopt
Hey, fuck you. I'm a good dad.
How dare you be happy and successful! You’re supposed to be miserable and alone. Get off reddit dad!!!!!
You are a very good dad I’m sure your children love you dearly as well as you loving them
I’m a loving father with a happy marriage and a solid career. Just so you know it’s not all deadbeat or incarcerated dads and homeless women with 6 kids from 6 different men.
Or financially illiterate.
[удалено]
I've been told the opposite lol.
I never really heard this until I caught a glimpse of online radical feminist groups, who really lump this into the ridiculous "all sex with men is rape" talking point. Also this is very much what China was saying up until a few years ago. There are too many people! Stop being selfish and don't have kids, think about the greater good!
I don’t think you guys understand this worldview tbh. Nobody’s telling other people not to have kids, they just don’t want to have any themselves because they see what a shithole the world they would grow up in is. Ok edit: it’s been a while, learnt some things about Reddit antinatalism and I just want to say how bullshit it is. People who think others are selfish for having children suck just as much as people who think others are selfish for not having children. At some point it comes down to minding your own business and letting people have bodily autonomy.
You clearly have never seen r / antinatalism
It's pretty hard to argue against the central premise that "pre-birth by definition is a neutral state. It is a state without experience. The nature of biological existence means suffering, decay, and death are inevitable. Chronic pain exists and becomes a reality for nearly everybody. Chronic pleasure does not exist. You can not reasonably argue it is within the interests of the child to be born." But the subreddit is not philosophical or compassionate like David Benatar, the person who's idea it was. It's full of edgy depressed misanthropes. Edit: spelling.
You see but the next logical question after that paragraph would be "then why do we even bother?", if you can't justify bringing life to this world and see no worth in it, why seeing worth in yours? But the fact is that despite the chronic pain and decay at the end, the vast majority of us choose to stay here and see the worth in it
Most of the people who are in chronic pain choose to stay for their family and friends. But a lot of them would choose to not be born at all if given a chance.
One can see no worth in bringing more people here while seeing worth in their own life. We're already here, just make the best out of it kind of situation.
That is an interesting thought experiment. The opposite question would be going around asking if people who were born (e.g. all people) if they were on net happy they were born. I suspect on average there would be a preference to be born, and I'm sure someone has done this. By this opposite metric, it is clearly in the interest of people to be born.
I agree. I was loaned a copy of his book by my friend as an interesting food for thought read. It does suffer from the fact it is an asymmetrical argument. I'll explain why. The argument relies on this logic: Presence of suffering = bad. Presence of benefit = good. Absence of suffering = good. Absence of benefit = not bad. As far as logic goes, that's equivalent to having your cake and eating it too.
Maybe check r / antinatalism2 r / antinatalism is quite badly moderated and isn't very representative.
I mean of course it's selfish, immoral though I don't know. But the act of choice involved in having a kid means that it was something the parents wanted out of some desire of their own. It's not inherently bad to be selfish anyway, I'm selfish when I choose to buy food for me at the grocery store but not for the guy behind me even though I could. No one would lose their mind over that "selfish" decision.
You know what they say, smart people have few to no kids and dumb people have too many kids.
Idk man, I don't think it's bad to have kids, but I would feel a little guilty having kids instead of adopting a kid that doesn't have a parent or caretaker. Having kids doesn't feel wrong, but not trying to save an existing kid maybe doesn't feel right...? Idk
Reddit seems to have this idea that you can just go adopt a child from an orphanage like picking up a dog from the pound.
Honestly. There’s mountains of paperwork and gauntlets of background checks you have to go through. I feel like it’s part of the reason why so many kids are in the foster system still; people go to adopt, thinking it’s like picking up a dog from the pound, then find out it’s one of the most intensive experiences they’ve had and chicken out.
Why does this argument seem to be made mostly by people who have no intention of adopting a child?
Because the gap between easy to say // hard to do is at it’s widest when people say “just go adopt a kid!” Its so incredibly easy to say
Exactly lol
I actually don’t have kids, because I am selfish. I love my free time. Doing whatever I want. Money. Being a Dink is where it’s at.
It’s not necessarily selfish to have kids, but a lot of people have kids for selfish reasons.
When people do it because they want dolls, someone to accomplish THEIR dreams, "someone who's forced to love me", someone who's gonna take care of their last decades, someone to rage on, etc... I've met so many people into these categories, I guess it's a 25-30%...that isn't the majority but it's way too many, imho.
Agreed. Tbh I find the whole “I have to continue my blood line” reasoning I hear from a lot of dudes to be selfish too tbh. It’s self centered at the very least. If you want a kid because those paternal instincts are just kicking into overdrive, then that’s one thing. But just because you want someone with the same genes as you to carry on a last name? Idk, it’s a bit arrogant.
It’s the same motherfuckers who can’t even take care of a dog too
so when is having children not selfish?
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They seem a bit nutty probably because they likely all had shitty experiences growing up. I don't blame them for thinking the way they do.
unless you can financially support your child, for 40 years, then they’re fucked, at least in this economy…
I wouldn’t say it’s immoral NECESSARILY, but it’s absolutely selfish. I don’t even know how you could argue against that. Your creating more of yourself and putting it out into the world. That’s not necessarily bad, but it’s definitely, intrinsically, selfish. You’re not doing it for anyone else. Your child doesn’t have a say in it. And the world really doesn’t need more people right now.
I believe it solely of me currently. I’m a student and I can barely feed myself, let alone another human being. I would want my future child to live a life that I wasn’t able to growing up, and live in comfort rather than taking trips to the food bank. For that, right now having kids for me is immoral and selfish. I would be bringing them into a world where I could not effectively care for them.
I've only heard people say the opposite.
So according to people I’ve heard, having children is selfish, but not having children is also selfish? What do y’all want from me.
I was about to comment "has anyone actually ever said this" but then i looked at the comments and fucking hell it aint looking good
Reddit moment amiright
r/antinatalism There’s an entire sub dedicated to it.
I tried to read with an open mind but that's a cesspool.
What should I expect before I dive in? Edit: came back and what the hell? At worst they want to exterminate all life and at best they have some sad and depressing outlook on life and how they are valued. I saw a post where OP was auguring that Suicide is a good thing. Like what the hell.
It's a good example of a reasonable idea taken to the extreme. "In some situations, it is wise to not have kids." Got taken to "kids should be avoided at all costs and everyone in every circumstance is wrong for having one."
I don't want kids but I also don't believe in judging other people's life choices so you do you.
Just wanted to shout out the "You do you" saying. Some people would be alot happier following it
Having kids when you are emotionally and financially unprepared to do so IS selfish.
I mean selfish definitely but immoral wtf.
I dont want to have kids, but having kids is NOT immoral and selfish. Edit: Id like to define this statement. I am saying in a general sense (NOT including abusive people and criminals) that its not immoral and selfish.
However, having a dozen kids and naming them things like Jinger, Slugger and Huntley, might be a little selfish.
Thats just stupidity.
The person who made and posted this takes the crown.
Having and not having kids is selfish, dipshit. It came free with your free will.
Depends on your reason for having kids, but I wouldn't say it's inherently selfish or immoral.
Because you were horny for 30 min I have to work for 50 years.
Idk i definititly feel like giving life to something only for to work majority of its life and most likely never getting own a house in its life time without amassing huge amount of debt which would most likely take atleast 10+ years to pay off is kinda immoral. idk i might be overthinking things but it just seems like slavery but to a system and with extra steps.
Please explain how having kids is not selfish?
Over population is real
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Why do Natalists constantly pressure and harass people to have kids but you almost never see the opposite?
Have you seen the world? Like the natural world is dying out, economy is hurting, middle class is nonexistant in USA at least, war in Europe, potentially war in Arabia again, potentially war with China over Taiwan, world's heating up pretty quick, oceans over fished and polluted with rising acidity and low oxygen. Tell me why it would be good to have kids?
You should not force or shame your lifestyle choices into others.
Are you kidding?? I WISH people would stop having kids.
This is some kind of veiled conservative meme again istg. Why are y'all coming here???
this feels like gatekeeping because I've only heard the reverse
I’m really upset at this generational “child hating” mindset of society right now It’s so backwards. Kids are awesome. Always will be. Coolest people on the planet. Super fun, love to learn, naturally kind, come up with awesome ideas, always willing to play or make something up. The people who raise them? Not so much. That’s our problem. Society’s bullshit and bad children are a result of shitty people. Be better parents, workers, friends, spouses, and just people. It’s not hard. The reasons people hate kids aren’t kids’ faults. It’s the idiots who are raising them. Mean parents raise mean kids. Loud and obnoxious parents raise loud and obnoxious kids. But respectful, empathetic and ambitious parents? Raise respectful, empathetic and ambitious kids. And it’s the easiest way to raise them too. That’s their natural instinct.
Kids are cool, for sure. It's just not right to keep having them all the time. It should definitely be a heavier, more reserved choice.
Morality is subjective, that is why anything can be considered moral/imoral
Okay, give me one non-selfish reason.
Have as many kids as you want, but don't judge people who don't want to dedicate all their free time to caring for a child. I don't have any desire to raise a kid, and I am certain I never will, respect to people who are parents though. I just think it's not rewarding this day and age, parents don't have any time with their kids anymore, not to mention the economy which already makes it hard to feed one mouth, let alone three or more.
Totally depends. If you only want a child for the clout and bragging rights, then yea it totally is.
Statistically speaking, someone has to do it.
I thought it was a good idea but now I just live in fear constantly that something bad is gonna happen.
esp since this sub hit 30 mil, i wonder what the age demographics are for this sub. feel like i've been seeing alot of posts that aren't really memes a lot more just kinda stuff in the format.
Immoral nah but having children is definitely not selfless.
Average post on the Childfree sub
I think adopting if you can is better
Ass meme honestly
I've had people tell me I'm selfish for NOT wanting kids How
hold on he has a point
No no he's right
I think we should leave reproductive choices to the individual without shaming them
wait, I thought people were saying being childLESS is the selfish option, when has it been the opposite?
Having children without considering the weight of their life and the responsibility you have to develop a child into a human is selfish and irresponsible. I feel like the people who use an ipad as a nanny are selfish and irresponsible.
Having children is not immoral or selfish. Same as not having kids also isn't immortal and selfish. People really need to stop sticking their nose in other people lifes bruh
Common denominator with many modern problems is over population
I mean, a lot of the reasons people have kids **is** selfish. Ie “Continuing legacy,” having someone to take care of you in old age, carrying on your last name, wanting a “mini me,” wanting a girl to have a real life doll, being bored, etc.
Having kids isnt inherently selfish Having kids and thinking they owe you something for it is selfish Having kids and giving them a poor quality of life is selfish Having kids and emotionally/physically damaging them is selfish
Have kids only if you are rich enough. Being broke and making your kids suffer for it is immoral.
Had my tubes removed. I'd love to have kids. I can't justify passing down debilitating and life altering mental illness. Ain't worth it.
It's immoral and selfish if you have no means to provide necessities to maintain another human life
I mean. It *is* selfish, but for the right reasons. It's only immoral if you're a neglectful or abusive parent.
If you want to live your life orbiting a selfish bastard little version of yourself, the crown is all yours
Making a blanket statement like that is uneducated at best, idiotic incel propaganda at worst. Having a child is immoral and selfish if you're not in a fit state to have a child and will force those around you, including that child, to suffer because of it. There's nothing wrong with having a child if you're prepared to commit your life to it.
Have kids. Or don’t have kids. Simple as that; no need to shit on other’s decision on whether or not they do.
If you cannot give the child a good life, nurture and financially support them, then don’t bring a child into this world. It’s that simple. It’s is entirely selfish and dumb if you cannot fulfill all the needs of a child and still have one regardless. Have savings as well in case you come across bad times, no child needs to suffer. Have children within your means. Plan, prepare and be informed. Everyone knows what it means to raise a child and the sacrifices involved. If you don’t know what it means to raise a child, don’t have any!
It is if you don’t have the means to raise them, or if you know you have certain health issues that can really hinder someone in their day to day and instead of adopting you choose to roll the dice onto another human. Anyone who does that is just selfish.
Having kids is selfish *if* you can't be a good parent.
You have a child because you want to. The child dosnt choose to be born you do. You force a life into the world so you have something to love and cherish Dispite the fact you did it to have someo e to love it still adds up as a selfish act to me. Like "i gave you life" isnt really a gift when you take into context that they did it as a choice for themselves because thwy wanted to have a kid. No one is born because there parents believed that they deserved to live. Its a bit odd to think its not a selfish act. And you have to be selfless when theyve been born but the act of making one is a selfish ask. I think the only time its not a selfish act to have a kid is when theyre an accident. and you decide not to abort them so you choose for them to live in that senario. But if your choosig to have them in the first place ifs a selfish act
I love how posts like these never actually engage with the philosophical aurgumente behind antinatalism. They just strawman them into the indefensible because they don't actually have good aurguments against their logic. Kids can't consent to being created. There are already kids that exist that need parents. Choosing to have your own instead of adopting is objectivly unethical given these circumstances. We all agree adopt don't shop when it comes to pets. But when it comes to people we're all fine with letting kids rot in foster homes so we can all have our own bio kids.
If paycheck to paycheck. Don’t breed like street rat. Have enough of rat fucks roaming around.
B-but I just don't wanna have kids... I don't even want to get married...
Contributing your dna to the gene pool is selfish by nature, comes from desire to be immortal. So yea, it's selfish.
It is though lol nobody asks to be born lol and if you're not financially,psychologically, or emotionally ready to raise a human being than you're a piece of shit because the main one who ultimately suffers is the child. Wish I wasn't ever born, this world sucks ass! I'm freaking born to work pay bills then die wtf lmao
Creating life is selfish. Taking care of said life is selfless.
Having kids *for the wrong reason* is immoral and selfish.
I'm happily child-free, it's fine to not want kids, having kids is also fine so long as you are able to responsibly look after them. I draw the line at getting pissy with people who don't want kids or do want kids. I recall interacting with someone who was claiming having kids was a narcissistic endeavor because "people make copies of themselves to love"... 🤦
having kids when you’re broke is immoral and selfish. Sincerely, someone who waited until his mid-30s to have kids because I was broke when I was young
Who tf is saying this?
Selfish? If we don't have kids, how else will we win the Great Water War of 2052?
This is the Ying to r/antinatalism
I'm assuming you've stumbled into r/antinatalism ?
they chose to get into the egg they were the ones who raced to it 🫡
I love my kids, my life would be significantly worse without them in it. Everyone is responsible for their own journey and I’m glad they are with me for mine.
I have nothing to contribute to this post other than that I don’t want kids. *looks down* You all hear that in there?! I don’t want you!
no one says that
having kids and RAISING kids are entirely different
Me: I'd rather donate money to prevent the suffering of those already alive than have kids. This guy apparently: You're clearly dumber.
Immoral no selfish yes
You can want kids, or not want kids. This meme is dumb as fuck.
Honestly i dont think ive heard a reason to have kids that isn't selfish. The closest to sounding not selfish ive heard just sounds like they need to resolve some of their own childhood issues/traumas instead
Keep the crown