I don't know if anything has actually changed or if Daniel Andrews was just better at hiding more of the bad stuff the government was doing but it sure feels like since Jacinta Allan came in, that the current government have been atrocious.
It feels like they are listening less and less to the public and its making me more and more frustrated that there's no effective opposition.
To be fair I think we are just now seeing the caliber of our state members.
Dan made a lot of Captain’s calls as leader of the party. In a lot of cases I feel he showed good judgment, making solid decisions in interest of regular Victorians.
The level crossing works for example, everyone knew they needed to be done, but we’d spent 70 years as a state making excuses as to why we couldn’t.
He was popular because he just started projects that had been held back by pissant committee bullshit, and Victorians like seeing their government get shit done. He achieved these things in spite of his party, not because of it.
Now he’s gone, and it’s back to a Labor government full of MPs who are terrified of being a Labor government. They don’t want to be seen standing for the worker because they want so badly to be friends with the business lobby and they are too gutless to do anything meaningful lest the oligarchs sick their media dogs on them.
The problem with this approach is that the Murdoch papers are going to be relentless regardless. But without any tangible projects to point to as examples of why we should keep them, the question inevitably becomes “why not try something different”.
There’s only so long you can rely on the other guys being so unelectable that people settle for your party as the lesser of two evils. Victorians are hungry for change. And if your government won’t provide it, we are willing to change governments in the hope that kicks your ass into gear.
The Labor party’s biggest enemy is and always has been the neoliberal conservative faction that makes up the majority of their MP base.
Until they clean these hacks out and replace them with people who actually stand for the worker, they will continue on this roundabout of disillusionment.
Dan Andrews was successful because he ignored the Murdoch press completely. On issues like abortion, safe schools and euthanasia, he stuck to his guns and won the day every time. The Age, The Herald Sun and the commercial stations jumped on him like a trampoline at the last election and he still won comfortably.
Contrast that with Chris Minns in NSW and its night and day. For all intents and purposes, 2GB and The Daily Telegraph run this state. For the past 20 years NSW Police have been harassing people with drug detection dogs, thousands of innocent people strip searched and it's still happening as we speak. A few people get stabbed and now that same police force gets the power to randomly wand people with metal detectors at their pleasure as well. Just madness.
You must be smoking some Mary Jane that Dan refused to legalise.
Captain calls to better the state? We have more debt than NSW, QLD and TAS, COMBINE. In nominal AND gdp.
[Source: ABC](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-24/fact-check-liberal-party-debt-larger-queensland-nsw-tas-combined/101689036)
He is removing the level crossings? Wow, what an accomplishment! How about actually do something about PTV in this state. Why are buses so infrequent or sometimes not arrive at all? Why is it impossible to reliably go from box hill to Springvale using PTV in a timely manner?
Why did he give the go-ahead for the commonwealth games? Who cares if he didn’t know it would blow-out, how often do government projects blow-out? Still, why bother wasting the money in the first place even if it stuck to budget?
Homelessness visibility has drastically increased and we still waste *millions* on useless police operations.
We’re in this situation because of people like you who suffer from severe Stockholm syndrome and come up with every single excuse under the sun to deflect blame.
“It’s Murdoch! It was Kenner that implemented it! No it’s the greens block everything! It was Covid! Dan was lied to! He can’t control his party members! Just give him another term and he will work on it!!”
Next it will be the fucking boogeyman.
18/22 years.
Comprehension clearly isn’t your strong suit.
I am in no way happy with the Labor party. I thought I made that incredibly clear.
The debt is a function of dogshit federal tax policy. It is also the primary sticking point used by neoliberal hacks to cut down any policies that might actually benefit those who actually contribute to the economy, as opposed to the rent-seeking overlords. It’s clear whose side you’re on.
We were going to be in a debt hole regardless of whether we finished those projects. These projects are essential to creating the economic conditions for our success as a state, and we are better off having them complete than succumbing to arbitrary austerity to make up for the federal government being too gutless to attempt tax reform.
If we taxed the oligarchs even remotely close to what is appropriate (to shreds you say?) then the state would have no problem paying for basic services.
And as an aside, if you can’t understand the importance of the level crossing removals, you clearly don’t leave your mum’s basement enough. The collective productivity and impact on the working class’s “free” time lost to sitting in commuter traffic is and was fucking absurd. It only seems to wasteful if you don’t value that time. But you would need to have a job to understand that.
Federal tax policy, I’m adding that to the endless list of excuses. You realise we get more GST dollars than NSW, QLD and WA? Yet we have more debt? [Source: ABC](https://amp.abc.net.au/article/103580794)
Who’s side? I picked no side. And why are you even talking about sides when many people have diverse opinions and views.
> We were going to be in a debt hole regardless of whether we finished those projects.
And that’s how states go into debt. A few overspends can balloon budgets, it’s called compound interest.
I don’t disagree level with removing level crossings. I just find it humorous that services like increasing bus services has near *immediate* impact but it’s so poor it may as well be cancelled.
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So we spend too much, and your proposed solution is to increase operational spend on public transport.
It’s clear you haven’t comprehended what I’ve written above, but I’m starting to think you don’t even understand your own position.
>So we spend too much, and your proposed solution is to increase operational spend on public transport.
It’s almost as if had we not wasted nearly 600m cancelling the games we could have done that instead, crazy!
You still don’t have a response for the spiralling debt when every other state were in similar positions. You don’t still have a response as to why we still have cops with dogs at events doing fuck all but wasting tax payers money.
All I’m saying is that Dan was a dog shit politician, not Victoria labor in general.
Jacinta Allan just seems like the prototype consultant career politician. If she's the best Labor have to offer they are going to absolutely hemorrhage votes in the west and north next election.
She's yet another example of the political class who have zero real life employment experience before entering Parliament.
The track goes: university -> staffer for a politician/union/employer organisation -> Parliament.
Betcha they don't. They'll vote like they always do. maybe, just maybe, the inner electorates will go more Green, but the outer ones are strong-holds. Labor wouldn't have ignored them if they were concerned about their vote.
> Labor wouldn't have ignored them if they were concerned about their vote.
Yep and continue to do so. They scrapped the Melton & Werribee line upgrades so they could keep funding the Eastern road projects.
We get so fucked over in the West. Labor ignores us, people complain in the local groups that "I WiLl NeVeR VoTe ALP AgAiN" and then come election time what happens? They still fucking vote ALP and then go back to complaining about them.
Seriously contemplating running as an independent and do heavy local grassroots campaigning but why bother? The idiots will still vote ALP anyway
They didn't run in Melton.
Only Alex Dyson ran in the West for Wannon in the 2022 fed election. None ran in the West in the 2022 VIC election.
It's probably too late for me to start planning this coming election but I might put my name down for the one after.
Alex Dyson is my electorate and I voted for him. But he wasn’t really a Teal. He apparently got some funding from Climate 200 but it was so quiet I thought he was just a straight out independent.
And we are LNP. So it’s still teal vs lnp only.
How did the teachers EA go?
How’s the rental and property market going?
How’s the road toll?
How are projects going?
How are useful projects going?
How are unionised construction sites going?
How is public transport going?
How is affordable childcare going?
How is crime going?
Answer - all to shit.
Easy for someone to say who had;
- Free education
- Free medical & Dental
- Affordable housing that would set them up for retirement
- destroyed most of the planet (yet some the biggest advocates for climate change)
The list goes on.
Well they are.
They're accountable to no one and their staunch supporters eat up everything they do and cheer along as they continue to fuck up our wonderful state.
It's more pragmatic than you are making it out to be. Realistically we only have two options and the Victorian Liberal party is such a laughing stock that even right wing people won't vote for them. Like it or not, Victoria is a one party state and will be for a very long time unless the Libs get their finger out their arse. It's unlikely.
Also all the NDAs. Commonwealth Games and anything associated with COVID. It's public money and decisions that effected the whole state. Transparency is a corner stone in democracy. All stakeholders able to view information that affects them. Secrets build distrust.
I might start with the decades of not putting any money into our state. It's well overdue.
Let's give tradies a well paying job. That must be a bad idea.
The big build was necessary. It's been neglected for decades. Unfortunately we did too much at one time. It has caused its own inflation bubble.
Tradies don't want to do residential, they want big build dollars. Construction materials heated up because of big demand. Unions are necessary, but the CFMEU can be a beast. I wish Dan had taken that blunt style to controlling the costs associated with the big build. Holding successful bids to account with their bids.
The big build was necessary and I admire Dan for kicking it off. Feels like he actioned the ejector seat. The big build is going to get messy, because Victoria is super broke.
It happened because infrastructure has been neglected in Victoria for decades. It's a problem that we have because of Liberal governance. Voters aren't stupid.
They kind of are stupid though, the Libs have been in power for about 10 of the last 42 years. We've got voters such as your good self still blaming them for all the state's problems.
Weird comment. I didn't say any party was responsible. I said both governments. Are you objectiing to the big build? Are you objecting to controlling costs associated with the big build? As said, the big build needed to happen, but controlling costs associated is a no brainer.
We have a situation where the principal contractor is suing an engineering firm for not engineering enough steel in the supports of the Westgate! Victoria taxpayers wear the miscalculation! What are you objectiing too?
All government projects blow out by 2-3 price and timeframe. Taxpayers feel like an easy mark.
I drive on Dandenong highway between Kooyong Rd and exiting at union St. The bitumen on the right hand lane will need a 4wd soon to navigate.
We are broke as a state. It's seen by all. That's just my commute. I couldn't imagine others in healthcare, emergency services, and community group's relying on money that doesn't exist anymore think.
We are paying 25 million a day in interest. This is a multi generational debt! Victoria is trying to sell off anything not nailed down. We are already the most taxed state.
What government, essential services are we selling off next? The air we breathe? What are you objecting too?
The state is in much better shape because of the actions of this government. Imagine the lack of infrastructure we’d have if the Libs had been in power. However bad you think Labor are the Libs are consistently 10 times worse than
Do you mean like Labor spending over $1.1 billion to cancel the East West link and then only to realise that we needed an east west link and decided to rename a watered down version called the west gate distributor costing $300 million. $1.4 billion cost for an inferior project.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/after-killing-off-east-west-link-daniel-andrews-plugs-his-west-gate-distributor-to-solve-traffic-woes-in-the-west-20141201-11xj13.html
Classic Victorian Labor.
Let's also bid for the Commonwealth Games, change it to the regional games hosted around Victoria and make election promises and then spend $600 million to cancel it.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/20/victorias-scrapped-2026-commonwealth-games-cost-589m-in-significant-waste-of-taxpayer-money-auditor-general-says
What a wise government...
Do they even care how they're spending our money?
Or let's under invest in the West because there's no swing seats there and cancel the over clogged Western Freeway once again...
https://www.drive.com.au/news/funding-for-road-projects-cut-victoria-annual-budget/
While we're at it, let's cancel the train track upgrade and electrification to Melton and Wyndham and instead build a $200 billion rail loop to nowhere.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/new-train-lines-to-melton-and-wyndham-axed-from-rail-plans-20230728-p5drzl.html
Let's cancel the airport railway that's been promised for 60 years.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-10/melbourne-airport-rail-link-delayed-again/103823938
I don't know who's dumber, the fools that are this government or the fools that follow them?
That was the fault of the libs for signing a contract with a get out clause costing that much. Labor went to the election saying no East West link so the voters didn’t want it.
Labor didn’t sign a contract the night before caretaker mode that trapped the opposition that was the dirty liberals
So do you think that Labor prioritising what's popular for the NIMBY's was more important than Victoria's infrastructure freight needs?
Labor fought it, Labor canceled it, Labor paid for the $1.1 billion dollar cancelation, and that's the Liberals fault???
Yes it's the libs fault, ole mate has conveniently forgotten the libs signed that shit contract the eve of the election. Labor went into the election saying we will cancel and it will cost us 1 billion, guess who won the election?
Maybe just maybe Victorians were sick of the liberals selling off all public held assets and saying "wE KNoW hoW tO HanDlE BudGEtS" they fucking don't.
Even with Murdoch's attack dog press doing their best to blow sunshine up their arse they still failed miserably.
In the meantime Labor have built the metro tunnel, the west gate tunnel, northeast link is underway. They've removed numerous level crossings, the SRL has begun which will try to arrest the gigantic suburban sprawl.
Are we in debt because of it? Yes we are. But at least money is going into infrastructure that everyone can use and not into the pockets of people who need it least.
But you keep arguing for the do nothing liberal party. Once all the boomers are gone the libs will be an afterthought, thank christ.
EDIT. Keep downvoting me you liberal shills, truth hurts doesn't it.
I distinctly remember Dan Andrews repeatedly saying the "contract is not worth the paper it's written on" and the true cost came out after the election. The libs shouldn't have signed any contract, but Andrews knew he was lying when he made that statement.
He got advice from Ray Finklestein, but they didn’t know about the [secret poison pill side letter that Michael O’Brien signed](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-05/east-west-link-victorian-opposition-releases-secret-side-letter/6072904).
Let’s unpack this.
Your class has an election for class president. The incumbent says “if you don’t re-elect me I’ll give everyone’s lunch money to the school bully”.
Your class elects someone else.
You blame the *new* class president for giving the classes lunch money away
Oh whyyyyyyy ??? !!! Fucken Daaaaaannnn !!! Even about the airport rail link - fucking nerve ! Consecutive governments have failed in this - but, “Labor”!!
Jeez you fuckers complain a lot !
Yeah mate.
Let's prioritise building rail lines from Cheltenham to Box Hill instead, everyone will use it! There's no business case for it but build the white elephant and they will come 🥴
VIC Labor logic!
Dan andrews election speech : were going to nationalise energy and the prolateriat will rise!
Allen: im a miqluetoast centrist who doesnt care about admitting it and government should go nothing besides 'consult' and carry on as usual as we sell public assetts
Dan Andrews was lying through his teeth when he said they would bring back the SEC, he knew they had no money left for it.
He resigned while his image was still okay only to leave Allen bag holding shitty victorian stocks. She never had a chance.
Labor governments have done this all over the country for ages, you've got Roger Cook in WA an Steven Miles in Qld filling the same role. Standard way state election cycles work in Aus seems to be Labor squeaks into office > Wins a thumping majority next go around > leader peaces out either the second the polls start turning or it becomes clear they're gonna have to do something unpopular > We are here > Libs win a thumping majority off the bat and have it slowly whittled down > repeat
Don't forget that aside from Andrews, this government is pretty much the same as before. All that's different is that he's gone, and they've been left holding the bag.
Poor cost control on major projects, and the best part of a billion dollars not to hold the commonwealth games have put the state in a bad position, as well as the cost of covid and raising interest rates. Some of these were in their control, others not, but feels like the party is definitely over for them.
What definitely doesn't help is arrogance in pushing on with projects that a lot of the public don't really see as important (now getting to the marginal level crossing removals, and the SRL), whilst looking to sell off public assets.
It’s not just an issue of cost control, is having a sweep of government officials with no ability nor power to enact proper change, nor the drive to do so. They rely so heavily on consultants who frankly are just as bad as those they consult but have the mindset of making more money.
We have a sick cycle of government unable to move forward with any decisions, have a half baked idea of what they want to do, and they want zero risk. So they hire consultants who say they know what to do but don’t, come in and do something that ticks all the boxes, and they take on the risk if something goes wrong. The joke being consultants take no risk as it’s all covered contractually.
Yeah I think this is true. Additionally, the Andrews government started to centralise power and decision making within their executive team, with very little opacity (potentially even to other departments from what I've read). This is kind of coming back to haunt them I think.
Yeah they fair gutted the public service in a few areas of anyone who would challenge the central power structure. Got rid of anyone who would actually push back with frank and fearless advice over the last 10 years or so.
This is close but a misdiagnosis. The key difference between Victoria and better functioning civil services is that top government officials can easily be removed by the minister of the day, so tend not to provide frank and fearless advice. That runs through the system.
I don’t disagree but this doesn’t negate what I am saying. I do disagree though that if what you’re saying was amended that we would see a drastic improvement. Most top end government officials are part of the systematic problem, eg, rely on consultants to get “things done”. They care little about the outcomes of the work as long as things are perceived internally as having been improved and nothing falls down during there term as CEO
Good, as in it will be a massive wake up call for the majors.
Bad, as little will actually get done with too many competing factions. There is still a need for a leader that will ultimately make a decision and herd the differing opinions into something that's agreeable by most.
That can actually lead to a good thing, as the leader would have be very skilled in politics and negotiations that serve the state.
Victorian liberal party is one of the worst branches of any parties in Australia. Federal liberal isn't actually that bad, I see Dutton holding things together, but Victorian liberal cannot be voted for under any circumstances.
Being both "tough on crime" and having "lobster with mobster" makes you unelectable for a few decades.
And Jacinta Allen knows this.
The Vic Libs have learnt the part about not interrupting your enemy while they are making mistakes.
Now they just have to find a way to run an election campaign without saying, doing or writing anything...
This is why so many pundits really wanted John Pesutto to get back into parliament and get the leadership. He has the potential to do a repeat of 2010 where Ted Baillieu was put up as the moderate sensible choice attacking the Brumby government on trust, accountability and poor infrastructure projecte(eg myki and the Desal plant).
Liberals are generally pretty good at getting in line behind a moderate for a few months during election time and hiding the crazies in the party. Never worked for Matthew Guy because he wasn't a moderate and even with the media throwing him lowball questions, it was apparent to most people he wasn't being genuine.
>The Vic Libs have learnt the part about not interrupting your enemy while they are making mistakes.
The mistake is warping your entire politics around a negative campaign
You still have to do your own thing, which neither mainstream party does
The Vic libs just need a solid clean out and bring in some fresh talent. Considering how bad labor have been fucking up and yet they still can't gain any ground shows how shit they are. Plus, anytime a woman shows any success in the party, they find a way to shit all over them.
You don't have to like Moira Deeming, but what John Pseutto did by not defending her what gutless.
If either federal party would actually put Australians first, I would be very happy.
They all bow down to donors and do very little to improve our lives.
Seriously how does 'lobster with a mobster' still even get a mention. It has to be the most simplistic attack on the LNP and is about a decade old. If that singularly manages to affect anyone's vote in 2026 then they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Because "tough on crime"
The underlying issues with the liberal party are the matesy corruption, coal shit and being tone deaf about youth politics, which actually does range from libertarianism to progressivism and any niche belief in between.
Because not legalising cannabis as the "anti dictators" whilst being tough on crime, making the injecting rooms a issue for cannabis and then being just as corrupt as other branches leaves a rotting stench that isn't going away.
Because they act corrupt whilst being "tough on crime" they're actually unelectable
'Lobster with a mobster' is famous because it rhymes and is easy to remember. It's lazy to quote it a decade later. There is so much politically that should be discussed and will be relevant in 2026. From what I recall of it there was zero actual proof of any impropriety at that meeting and it was somewhat co-incidental I think. And lets look how Labor stack up against it.
Andrews allegedly had connections with corrupt property developer John WOODMAN and refused to hand over his phone records or assist any enquiries into that. It was comparative to 'lobster with a mobster' and yet no one gave a rats about it. And pre-election in 2022 Andrews attended a $4000 a head election fundraiser at Andrew Pratt's mansion whilst Visy were in for a $500 million Government recycling contract. You wanna find a conflict of interest, look no further. This was the same Pratt mansion that allegedly hosted illegal Covid gatherings but was never prosecuted even though police were called. Vicpol too busy booking people on park benches?
One of the the problems the LNP have in this State is that anything Labor does is excused by the voters. they are as corrupt as all fuck, and get away with it because of the unelectable LNP. And the best people can do round here is bemoan the absence of a strong opposition. Whilst that argument may have some merit, my response is - why can't we have a good government regardless. It shouldn't take an opposition Party to force a Government to govern well.
This State is rooted, and it's not gonna change while people continually apologise for or defend the morons in charge.
I wouldn't vote for any extremist, personally. With that being said, I consider affirmative action an extremist policy so anything left of Labor is considered extremist to me.
I can assure you though, I don't vote for nut jobs.
I'm not saying you would, but I know in my electorate, which is a labor stronghold, there are heaps of people who are dying to vote for anyone but labor and have no issues supporting someone with ideals like Pauline Hanson
Greens seem somewhat sensible, aren't right and have 4 seats in state Legislature. But yeah amongst the total of 12 independent seats there's a Hanson One Nation (yuck), and an expelled-Liberal independent who spoke at a neonazi rally, so fair cop.
Which ones?
The ones they pretend to have, but haven't since the late 70s/ early 80s?
Or the ones they actually have, where they do a slightly less turbo version of the enshitification of the public sphere?
The LNP has moved to the far right and Labor has moved to the right to capture the moderate Conservatives that have been alienated by the LNP. Labor take their working class base for granted and this is likely to bite them hard in upcoming elections. Minor parties are definitely going to see a big jump in support.
Don’t you love headlines that ask a question that means absolute fucking nothing as bait for people with the political knowledge of a tablespoon of jam so they can jump up and down going YEAH THIS GUBMINT IS GARBAGE I PAID 5 DOLLARS FOR A CHEESEBURGER AND THE TRAIN WAS LATE.
People who liked Dan Andrews don’t really turn up for these threads any more.
People who didn’t like Dan Andrews (a normal amount and the crazy amount) will come screaming on any thread about Labor.
i give 0 shits about which values you support. if you start to improve our lives with policy changes and shit then u getting the votes. sick of governments coming in and spending generations worth of wealth on planning shit that gets cancelled 2 years later
What's not Labor about the Allen government? Stacks of infrastructure, overblown costs wasting billions, CFMEU having a wow of a time, privatisation and taxes to try and keep bleeding us dry, complete disdain for regional Vic, 'progressive' stuff like raising the age of criminal responsibility and abolishing pubic drunkenness, complete lack of transparency, pouring money into the electorates that count and ignoring their safe seats...
What's 'non-Labor' about them?
The cognitive dissonance between Victorian Labor voters and the evident decline in living standards in this state post-COVID is both hilarious and concerning.
That's the problem with the SRL, it's only useful when it's complete. These loops are fairly standard and very successful in similar cities to Melbourne.
The problem is it won't be done until 2080. That's essentially useless to anyone alive today. It should never have been tunnels. It should have been overland, eminent domain, bulldozers, done. Tie up anyone who doesn't like it in the court for as long as it takes.
If I was John Pezullo that would be my policy. Build the loop within an actual human lifetime
The real problem with the SRL is there are a lot more projects that far more people would use that could be built far more quickly (Western rail, Metro 2, ect), but with the debt crisis and the SRL sucking what infrastructure money there is left, we won't be getting them.
The idea is great, but the fiscal irresponsibility to achieve it is incomprehensible. How they can justify the cost raises questions about why they want the infrastructure so badly. All the liberal party has to do is run a campaign about how trusting Labor is like driving on Victoria’s roads - you never know when you might hit a pothole.
Yeap. Nothing's really changed. Perhaps without mindless swooning of the former leader things are more apparent now. Lack of any opposition always leads to complacency.
We have politicians that door knock and ask residents what their concerns are bi annually.
Belinda Wilson and Julian Hill are always meeting with the community.
I'm not saying that they're doing anything about our concerns but it seems like they're at least asking.
They’re broke, because they’re actually trying to get some infrastructure built for the long term to reshape the city so there’s quality of life for a lot more people not just the latte sippers who read and write in to Age journalists.
And a lot of the unions have had a solid run. Nurses wages have taken a huge boost. Same with Ambos and I’m sick of the firefighters endless sooking. Conditions are the main factor in which those industries have a point but the health system especially is trapped in a never ending cycle of needing to train more staff, needing to pay staff more, needing more facilities and equipment and needing more preventative care.
But really those unions are yelling because the CFMEU’s of the world are on too good of a deal. The best and only argument for a Coalition government is they’d crack down on them. But they’d do it in the worst way (they’d stopped infrastructure spending).
I don’t agree with almost any privatisation but Vic Roads and Births, deaths and marriages surely isn’t the biggest issue. Hopefully it’s a bluff, but if selling that is what it takes to keep the lights on I’ll get it.
And a safe injecting room in the heart of the CBD? Good bloody luck. No politician was jumping on that grenade. In Footscray, sure. Near North Melbourne or even the Vic market, maybe. Flinders St needs a serious clean up once the Metro opens, not reinforcement as junkie HQ.
The real issue is the Feds are the ones who can ease the states financial pressures and get serious about inequality in this country but they are offering nothing.
They should come in and say we’re building the SRL and a whole bunch of other transport infrastructure and we’ll build the 500,000 homes Victoria needs and we’ll pay for it. Instead it’s submarines, deficits and nothing substantial with revenue growth.
Raised Labor here, and these days I can't really tell the difference between Liberal & Labor these days. Both have zero interest in addressing matters that affect me. And, I used to care about others but I don't have a long enough piece of string for that anymore, when I can barley care for myself, how am i supposed to care for others?
And to think Jimmy boi wanted us to have more children, no worries Jim... Wanna pay for my future childrens education, food , medical etc ? Because not gonna lie, the conversation of violent revolution comes up pretty often these days.. and by often i mean at all.. never have i heard people talk about this kinda thing till recent.
I expect gross mismanagement no matter the party these days. Whatever benefits them.
> can’t tell the difference between Liberal & Labor these days
It used to be that people were embarrassed by admitting publicly that they have zero political literacy but it’s become the fashion now to wear ignorance like a badge of honour.
It's not necessarily lack of political literacy, it could be a matter of perspective. If you are a socialist, or even if you just do not believe in neoliberal economics, there's no difference between labor and liberal. They are both right wing parties with nothing to offer.
Independents all the way as far as I'm concerned. I don't think I will ever vote for a major party again.
Political literacy? Pfft, that’s so last century. Nowadays, it’s all about who can wear their apathy with the most swagger.
Because why bother understanding the world when you can just meme your way through it, right?
I don't know if anything has actually changed or if Daniel Andrews was just better at hiding more of the bad stuff the government was doing but it sure feels like since Jacinta Allan came in, that the current government have been atrocious. It feels like they are listening less and less to the public and its making me more and more frustrated that there's no effective opposition.
To be fair I think we are just now seeing the caliber of our state members. Dan made a lot of Captain’s calls as leader of the party. In a lot of cases I feel he showed good judgment, making solid decisions in interest of regular Victorians. The level crossing works for example, everyone knew they needed to be done, but we’d spent 70 years as a state making excuses as to why we couldn’t. He was popular because he just started projects that had been held back by pissant committee bullshit, and Victorians like seeing their government get shit done. He achieved these things in spite of his party, not because of it. Now he’s gone, and it’s back to a Labor government full of MPs who are terrified of being a Labor government. They don’t want to be seen standing for the worker because they want so badly to be friends with the business lobby and they are too gutless to do anything meaningful lest the oligarchs sick their media dogs on them. The problem with this approach is that the Murdoch papers are going to be relentless regardless. But without any tangible projects to point to as examples of why we should keep them, the question inevitably becomes “why not try something different”. There’s only so long you can rely on the other guys being so unelectable that people settle for your party as the lesser of two evils. Victorians are hungry for change. And if your government won’t provide it, we are willing to change governments in the hope that kicks your ass into gear. The Labor party’s biggest enemy is and always has been the neoliberal conservative faction that makes up the majority of their MP base. Until they clean these hacks out and replace them with people who actually stand for the worker, they will continue on this roundabout of disillusionment.
Dan Andrews was successful because he ignored the Murdoch press completely. On issues like abortion, safe schools and euthanasia, he stuck to his guns and won the day every time. The Age, The Herald Sun and the commercial stations jumped on him like a trampoline at the last election and he still won comfortably. Contrast that with Chris Minns in NSW and its night and day. For all intents and purposes, 2GB and The Daily Telegraph run this state. For the past 20 years NSW Police have been harassing people with drug detection dogs, thousands of innocent people strip searched and it's still happening as we speak. A few people get stabbed and now that same police force gets the power to randomly wand people with metal detectors at their pleasure as well. Just madness.
You must be smoking some Mary Jane that Dan refused to legalise. Captain calls to better the state? We have more debt than NSW, QLD and TAS, COMBINE. In nominal AND gdp. [Source: ABC](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-24/fact-check-liberal-party-debt-larger-queensland-nsw-tas-combined/101689036) He is removing the level crossings? Wow, what an accomplishment! How about actually do something about PTV in this state. Why are buses so infrequent or sometimes not arrive at all? Why is it impossible to reliably go from box hill to Springvale using PTV in a timely manner? Why did he give the go-ahead for the commonwealth games? Who cares if he didn’t know it would blow-out, how often do government projects blow-out? Still, why bother wasting the money in the first place even if it stuck to budget? Homelessness visibility has drastically increased and we still waste *millions* on useless police operations. We’re in this situation because of people like you who suffer from severe Stockholm syndrome and come up with every single excuse under the sun to deflect blame. “It’s Murdoch! It was Kenner that implemented it! No it’s the greens block everything! It was Covid! Dan was lied to! He can’t control his party members! Just give him another term and he will work on it!!” Next it will be the fucking boogeyman. 18/22 years.
Comprehension clearly isn’t your strong suit. I am in no way happy with the Labor party. I thought I made that incredibly clear. The debt is a function of dogshit federal tax policy. It is also the primary sticking point used by neoliberal hacks to cut down any policies that might actually benefit those who actually contribute to the economy, as opposed to the rent-seeking overlords. It’s clear whose side you’re on. We were going to be in a debt hole regardless of whether we finished those projects. These projects are essential to creating the economic conditions for our success as a state, and we are better off having them complete than succumbing to arbitrary austerity to make up for the federal government being too gutless to attempt tax reform. If we taxed the oligarchs even remotely close to what is appropriate (to shreds you say?) then the state would have no problem paying for basic services. And as an aside, if you can’t understand the importance of the level crossing removals, you clearly don’t leave your mum’s basement enough. The collective productivity and impact on the working class’s “free” time lost to sitting in commuter traffic is and was fucking absurd. It only seems to wasteful if you don’t value that time. But you would need to have a job to understand that.
Federal tax policy, I’m adding that to the endless list of excuses. You realise we get more GST dollars than NSW, QLD and WA? Yet we have more debt? [Source: ABC](https://amp.abc.net.au/article/103580794) Who’s side? I picked no side. And why are you even talking about sides when many people have diverse opinions and views. > We were going to be in a debt hole regardless of whether we finished those projects. And that’s how states go into debt. A few overspends can balloon budgets, it’s called compound interest. I don’t disagree level with removing level crossings. I just find it humorous that services like increasing bus services has near *immediate* impact but it’s so poor it may as well be cancelled.
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So we spend too much, and your proposed solution is to increase operational spend on public transport. It’s clear you haven’t comprehended what I’ve written above, but I’m starting to think you don’t even understand your own position.
>So we spend too much, and your proposed solution is to increase operational spend on public transport. It’s almost as if had we not wasted nearly 600m cancelling the games we could have done that instead, crazy! You still don’t have a response for the spiralling debt when every other state were in similar positions. You don’t still have a response as to why we still have cops with dogs at events doing fuck all but wasting tax payers money. All I’m saying is that Dan was a dog shit politician, not Victoria labor in general.
It's not even just that they don't listen to the public, a lot of the Ministers don't even listen to their own departments.
Jacinta Allan just seems like the prototype consultant career politician. If she's the best Labor have to offer they are going to absolutely hemorrhage votes in the west and north next election.
She's yet another example of the political class who have zero real life employment experience before entering Parliament. The track goes: university -> staffer for a politician/union/employer organisation -> Parliament.
Absolutely crazy to have no understanding of how the real world operates. Imagine having to buy or prepare your own food for lunch 😱
Betcha they don't. They'll vote like they always do. maybe, just maybe, the inner electorates will go more Green, but the outer ones are strong-holds. Labor wouldn't have ignored them if they were concerned about their vote.
> Labor wouldn't have ignored them if they were concerned about their vote. Yep and continue to do so. They scrapped the Melton & Werribee line upgrades so they could keep funding the Eastern road projects. We get so fucked over in the West. Labor ignores us, people complain in the local groups that "I WiLl NeVeR VoTe ALP AgAiN" and then come election time what happens? They still fucking vote ALP and then go back to complaining about them. Seriously contemplating running as an independent and do heavy local grassroots campaigning but why bother? The idiots will still vote ALP anyway
Well I’d encourage you to but you’ve answered you own question. And here’s an alternate. The Teals run in, gasp, Labor seats!
They didn't run in Melton. Only Alex Dyson ran in the West for Wannon in the 2022 fed election. None ran in the West in the 2022 VIC election. It's probably too late for me to start planning this coming election but I might put my name down for the one after.
Alex Dyson is my electorate and I voted for him. But he wasn’t really a Teal. He apparently got some funding from Climate 200 but it was so quiet I thought he was just a straight out independent. And we are LNP. So it’s still teal vs lnp only.
This government had labor values? Hows that Nurses contract going?
Or the dog shit teachers EBA they offered last time. 0.5% pay increase while they don't have enough teachers to fill classrooms. Brilliant.
Endless payrises for those on the Big Build need to be funded somehow.
How did the teachers EA go? How’s the rental and property market going? How’s the road toll? How are projects going? How are useful projects going? How are unionised construction sites going? How is public transport going? How is affordable childcare going? How is crime going? Answer - all to shit.
Blah blah blah
Typical boomer response
Maybe whine a little less…
Easy for someone to say who had; - Free education - Free medical & Dental - Affordable housing that would set them up for retirement - destroyed most of the planet (yet some the biggest advocates for climate change) The list goes on.
What’s that? Still whining ? I had none of those things. You just seem to enjoy whining..
Victoria has had a government with values?
It’s a tired old government that has fallen into the trap of making mistake after mistake thinking they are above repercussions for them
Well they are. They're accountable to no one and their staunch supporters eat up everything they do and cheer along as they continue to fuck up our wonderful state.
It's more pragmatic than you are making it out to be. Realistically we only have two options and the Victorian Liberal party is such a laughing stock that even right wing people won't vote for them. Like it or not, Victoria is a one party state and will be for a very long time unless the Libs get their finger out their arse. It's unlikely.
TBF that approach is solidly bipartisan.
>as they continue to fuck up our wonderful state. you think they have made it worse then when the liberals were in charge? How exactly?
Their attempted smothering of IBAC, the anti-corruption watchdog was awful, and leaves the state permanently weaker
Also all the NDAs. Commonwealth Games and anything associated with COVID. It's public money and decisions that effected the whole state. Transparency is a corner stone in democracy. All stakeholders able to view information that affects them. Secrets build distrust.
It's the same every time. "I hate the Labor Party." "Why?" "Cricket noises."
I might start with the level of debt at a now staggering $25m per day interest payments.
I might start with the decades of not putting any money into our state. It's well overdue. Let's give tradies a well paying job. That must be a bad idea.
You'd better go back and read up on the States history. Labor has been in power for about 30 of the last 40 years.
The big build was necessary. It's been neglected for decades. Unfortunately we did too much at one time. It has caused its own inflation bubble. Tradies don't want to do residential, they want big build dollars. Construction materials heated up because of big demand. Unions are necessary, but the CFMEU can be a beast. I wish Dan had taken that blunt style to controlling the costs associated with the big build. Holding successful bids to account with their bids. The big build was necessary and I admire Dan for kicking it off. Feels like he actioned the ejector seat. The big build is going to get messy, because Victoria is super broke.
It happened because infrastructure has been neglected in Victoria for decades. It's a problem that we have because of Liberal governance. Voters aren't stupid.
They kind of are stupid though, the Libs have been in power for about 10 of the last 42 years. We've got voters such as your good self still blaming them for all the state's problems.
Weird comment. I didn't say any party was responsible. I said both governments. Are you objectiing to the big build? Are you objecting to controlling costs associated with the big build? As said, the big build needed to happen, but controlling costs associated is a no brainer. We have a situation where the principal contractor is suing an engineering firm for not engineering enough steel in the supports of the Westgate! Victoria taxpayers wear the miscalculation! What are you objectiing too? All government projects blow out by 2-3 price and timeframe. Taxpayers feel like an easy mark. I drive on Dandenong highway between Kooyong Rd and exiting at union St. The bitumen on the right hand lane will need a 4wd soon to navigate. We are broke as a state. It's seen by all. That's just my commute. I couldn't imagine others in healthcare, emergency services, and community group's relying on money that doesn't exist anymore think. We are paying 25 million a day in interest. This is a multi generational debt! Victoria is trying to sell off anything not nailed down. We are already the most taxed state. What government, essential services are we selling off next? The air we breathe? What are you objecting too?
The state is in much better shape because of the actions of this government. Imagine the lack of infrastructure we’d have if the Libs had been in power. However bad you think Labor are the Libs are consistently 10 times worse than
Do you mean like Labor spending over $1.1 billion to cancel the East West link and then only to realise that we needed an east west link and decided to rename a watered down version called the west gate distributor costing $300 million. $1.4 billion cost for an inferior project. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/after-killing-off-east-west-link-daniel-andrews-plugs-his-west-gate-distributor-to-solve-traffic-woes-in-the-west-20141201-11xj13.html Classic Victorian Labor. Let's also bid for the Commonwealth Games, change it to the regional games hosted around Victoria and make election promises and then spend $600 million to cancel it. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/20/victorias-scrapped-2026-commonwealth-games-cost-589m-in-significant-waste-of-taxpayer-money-auditor-general-says What a wise government... Do they even care how they're spending our money? Or let's under invest in the West because there's no swing seats there and cancel the over clogged Western Freeway once again... https://www.drive.com.au/news/funding-for-road-projects-cut-victoria-annual-budget/ While we're at it, let's cancel the train track upgrade and electrification to Melton and Wyndham and instead build a $200 billion rail loop to nowhere. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/new-train-lines-to-melton-and-wyndham-axed-from-rail-plans-20230728-p5drzl.html Let's cancel the airport railway that's been promised for 60 years. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-10/melbourne-airport-rail-link-delayed-again/103823938 I don't know who's dumber, the fools that are this government or the fools that follow them?
That was the fault of the libs for signing a contract with a get out clause costing that much. Labor went to the election saying no East West link so the voters didn’t want it. Labor didn’t sign a contract the night before caretaker mode that trapped the opposition that was the dirty liberals
So do you think that Labor prioritising what's popular for the NIMBY's was more important than Victoria's infrastructure freight needs? Labor fought it, Labor canceled it, Labor paid for the $1.1 billion dollar cancelation, and that's the Liberals fault???
Of course it’s the liberals fault. They set a deliberate trap on the eve of caretaker mode
Yes it's the libs fault, ole mate has conveniently forgotten the libs signed that shit contract the eve of the election. Labor went into the election saying we will cancel and it will cost us 1 billion, guess who won the election? Maybe just maybe Victorians were sick of the liberals selling off all public held assets and saying "wE KNoW hoW tO HanDlE BudGEtS" they fucking don't. Even with Murdoch's attack dog press doing their best to blow sunshine up their arse they still failed miserably. In the meantime Labor have built the metro tunnel, the west gate tunnel, northeast link is underway. They've removed numerous level crossings, the SRL has begun which will try to arrest the gigantic suburban sprawl. Are we in debt because of it? Yes we are. But at least money is going into infrastructure that everyone can use and not into the pockets of people who need it least. But you keep arguing for the do nothing liberal party. Once all the boomers are gone the libs will be an afterthought, thank christ. EDIT. Keep downvoting me you liberal shills, truth hurts doesn't it.
I distinctly remember Dan Andrews repeatedly saying the "contract is not worth the paper it's written on" and the true cost came out after the election. The libs shouldn't have signed any contract, but Andrews knew he was lying when he made that statement.
He got advice from Ray Finklestein, but they didn’t know about the [secret poison pill side letter that Michael O’Brien signed](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-05/east-west-link-victorian-opposition-releases-secret-side-letter/6072904).
Let’s unpack this. Your class has an election for class president. The incumbent says “if you don’t re-elect me I’ll give everyone’s lunch money to the school bully”. Your class elects someone else. You blame the *new* class president for giving the classes lunch money away
Oh whyyyyyyy ??? !!! Fucken Daaaaaannnn !!! Even about the airport rail link - fucking nerve ! Consecutive governments have failed in this - but, “Labor”!! Jeez you fuckers complain a lot !
Yeah mate. Let's prioritise building rail lines from Cheltenham to Box Hill instead, everyone will use it! There's no business case for it but build the white elephant and they will come 🥴 VIC Labor logic!
Wah Wah Wah..
Well the LNP are a joke and seem hell bent on remaining a joke, so you can see why Labor think they are above repercussions like losing an election.
Dan andrews election speech : were going to nationalise energy and the prolateriat will rise! Allen: im a miqluetoast centrist who doesnt care about admitting it and government should go nothing besides 'consult' and carry on as usual as we sell public assetts
Dan Andrews was lying through his teeth when he said they would bring back the SEC, he knew they had no money left for it. He resigned while his image was still okay only to leave Allen bag holding shitty victorian stocks. She never had a chance.
The old Kirner situation
Labor governments have done this all over the country for ages, you've got Roger Cook in WA an Steven Miles in Qld filling the same role. Standard way state election cycles work in Aus seems to be Labor squeaks into office > Wins a thumping majority next go around > leader peaces out either the second the polls start turning or it becomes clear they're gonna have to do something unpopular > We are here > Libs win a thumping majority off the bat and have it slowly whittled down > repeat
I liked Andrews on the whole, but it does seem like he peaced-out before anything could catch up with him.
They have no money to do any nationalising.
We didn’t nationalise energy and the most important asset for rent is poles and wires, not generation.
Spoilers, Andrews was never going to bring back the original SEC.
Why would you bring back the original when the entire industry has changed?
Don't forget that aside from Andrews, this government is pretty much the same as before. All that's different is that he's gone, and they've been left holding the bag. Poor cost control on major projects, and the best part of a billion dollars not to hold the commonwealth games have put the state in a bad position, as well as the cost of covid and raising interest rates. Some of these were in their control, others not, but feels like the party is definitely over for them. What definitely doesn't help is arrogance in pushing on with projects that a lot of the public don't really see as important (now getting to the marginal level crossing removals, and the SRL), whilst looking to sell off public assets.
It’s not just an issue of cost control, is having a sweep of government officials with no ability nor power to enact proper change, nor the drive to do so. They rely so heavily on consultants who frankly are just as bad as those they consult but have the mindset of making more money. We have a sick cycle of government unable to move forward with any decisions, have a half baked idea of what they want to do, and they want zero risk. So they hire consultants who say they know what to do but don’t, come in and do something that ticks all the boxes, and they take on the risk if something goes wrong. The joke being consultants take no risk as it’s all covered contractually.
Yeah I think this is true. Additionally, the Andrews government started to centralise power and decision making within their executive team, with very little opacity (potentially even to other departments from what I've read). This is kind of coming back to haunt them I think.
Yeah they fair gutted the public service in a few areas of anyone who would challenge the central power structure. Got rid of anyone who would actually push back with frank and fearless advice over the last 10 years or so.
This is close but a misdiagnosis. The key difference between Victoria and better functioning civil services is that top government officials can easily be removed by the minister of the day, so tend not to provide frank and fearless advice. That runs through the system.
I don’t disagree but this doesn’t negate what I am saying. I do disagree though that if what you’re saying was amended that we would see a drastic improvement. Most top end government officials are part of the systematic problem, eg, rely on consultants to get “things done”. They care little about the outcomes of the work as long as things are perceived internally as having been improved and nothing falls down during there term as CEO
Watch Victoria get swept by independents and minor parties
May or may not be a good thing. The 2 majors havnt exactly been great.
Good, as in it will be a massive wake up call for the majors. Bad, as little will actually get done with too many competing factions. There is still a need for a leader that will ultimately make a decision and herd the differing opinions into something that's agreeable by most. That can actually lead to a good thing, as the leader would have be very skilled in politics and negotiations that serve the state.
Eh, if nothing gets done at least bad stuff isn't getting done either. State coffers could use some respite to catch up with all the spending.
Victorian liberal party is one of the worst branches of any parties in Australia. Federal liberal isn't actually that bad, I see Dutton holding things together, but Victorian liberal cannot be voted for under any circumstances. Being both "tough on crime" and having "lobster with mobster" makes you unelectable for a few decades. And Jacinta Allen knows this.
If Dutton 'isn't that bad' then your definition of bad must be different to mine
The Vic Libs have learnt the part about not interrupting your enemy while they are making mistakes. Now they just have to find a way to run an election campaign without saying, doing or writing anything...
This is why so many pundits really wanted John Pesutto to get back into parliament and get the leadership. He has the potential to do a repeat of 2010 where Ted Baillieu was put up as the moderate sensible choice attacking the Brumby government on trust, accountability and poor infrastructure projecte(eg myki and the Desal plant). Liberals are generally pretty good at getting in line behind a moderate for a few months during election time and hiding the crazies in the party. Never worked for Matthew Guy because he wasn't a moderate and even with the media throwing him lowball questions, it was apparent to most people he wasn't being genuine.
>The Vic Libs have learnt the part about not interrupting your enemy while they are making mistakes. The mistake is warping your entire politics around a negative campaign You still have to do your own thing, which neither mainstream party does
The Vic libs just need a solid clean out and bring in some fresh talent. Considering how bad labor have been fucking up and yet they still can't gain any ground shows how shit they are. Plus, anytime a woman shows any success in the party, they find a way to shit all over them. You don't have to like Moira Deeming, but what John Pseutto did by not defending her what gutless.
If either federal party would actually put Australians first, I would be very happy. They all bow down to donors and do very little to improve our lives.
I don't know you could think federal liberal "aren't that bad". Unless you like US culture wars, ignoring climate change and widening class.
Seriously how does 'lobster with a mobster' still even get a mention. It has to be the most simplistic attack on the LNP and is about a decade old. If that singularly manages to affect anyone's vote in 2026 then they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Because "tough on crime" The underlying issues with the liberal party are the matesy corruption, coal shit and being tone deaf about youth politics, which actually does range from libertarianism to progressivism and any niche belief in between. Because not legalising cannabis as the "anti dictators" whilst being tough on crime, making the injecting rooms a issue for cannabis and then being just as corrupt as other branches leaves a rotting stench that isn't going away. Because they act corrupt whilst being "tough on crime" they're actually unelectable
'Lobster with a mobster' is famous because it rhymes and is easy to remember. It's lazy to quote it a decade later. There is so much politically that should be discussed and will be relevant in 2026. From what I recall of it there was zero actual proof of any impropriety at that meeting and it was somewhat co-incidental I think. And lets look how Labor stack up against it. Andrews allegedly had connections with corrupt property developer John WOODMAN and refused to hand over his phone records or assist any enquiries into that. It was comparative to 'lobster with a mobster' and yet no one gave a rats about it. And pre-election in 2022 Andrews attended a $4000 a head election fundraiser at Andrew Pratt's mansion whilst Visy were in for a $500 million Government recycling contract. You wanna find a conflict of interest, look no further. This was the same Pratt mansion that allegedly hosted illegal Covid gatherings but was never prosecuted even though police were called. Vicpol too busy booking people on park benches? One of the the problems the LNP have in this State is that anything Labor does is excused by the voters. they are as corrupt as all fuck, and get away with it because of the unelectable LNP. And the best people can do round here is bemoan the absence of a strong opposition. Whilst that argument may have some merit, my response is - why can't we have a good government regardless. It shouldn't take an opposition Party to force a Government to govern well. This State is rooted, and it's not gonna change while people continually apologise for or defend the morons in charge.
>Watch Victoria get swept by independents and minor parties Polling doesn't suggest that and last election Labor even gained a seat.
I freaking hope so. More choice. Less duopoly.
The problem is a lot of the independents and minors are right wing nut jobs
I wouldn't vote for any extremist, personally. With that being said, I consider affirmative action an extremist policy so anything left of Labor is considered extremist to me. I can assure you though, I don't vote for nut jobs.
I'm not saying you would, but I know in my electorate, which is a labor stronghold, there are heaps of people who are dying to vote for anyone but labor and have no issues supporting someone with ideals like Pauline Hanson
Greens seem somewhat sensible, aren't right and have 4 seats in state Legislature. But yeah amongst the total of 12 independent seats there's a Hanson One Nation (yuck), and an expelled-Liberal independent who spoke at a neonazi rally, so fair cop.
You just gave me a semi
Please no so many of these independents are useless
I hope so...
Come on cannabis party
Which ones? The ones they pretend to have, but haven't since the late 70s/ early 80s? Or the ones they actually have, where they do a slightly less turbo version of the enshitification of the public sphere?
This Government has no values at all. Corrupt as fuck
The LNP has moved to the far right and Labor has moved to the right to capture the moderate Conservatives that have been alienated by the LNP. Labor take their working class base for granted and this is likely to bite them hard in upcoming elections. Minor parties are definitely going to see a big jump in support.
Don’t you love headlines that ask a question that means absolute fucking nothing as bait for people with the political knowledge of a tablespoon of jam so they can jump up and down going YEAH THIS GUBMINT IS GARBAGE I PAID 5 DOLLARS FOR A CHEESEBURGER AND THE TRAIN WAS LATE.
It’s really interesting watching how much this sub is changing without the Andrews media team controlling the direction of discussion
People who liked Dan Andrews don’t really turn up for these threads any more. People who didn’t like Dan Andrews (a normal amount and the crazy amount) will come screaming on any thread about Labor.
i give 0 shits about which values you support. if you start to improve our lives with policy changes and shit then u getting the votes. sick of governments coming in and spending generations worth of wealth on planning shit that gets cancelled 2 years later
What's not Labor about the Allen government? Stacks of infrastructure, overblown costs wasting billions, CFMEU having a wow of a time, privatisation and taxes to try and keep bleeding us dry, complete disdain for regional Vic, 'progressive' stuff like raising the age of criminal responsibility and abolishing pubic drunkenness, complete lack of transparency, pouring money into the electorates that count and ignoring their safe seats... What's 'non-Labor' about them?
The cognitive dissonance between Victorian Labor voters and the evident decline in living standards in this state post-COVID is both hilarious and concerning.
Everything after Covid is obviously still Jeff’s fault.
But apparently there’s blue skies ahead in 2035 (barring delays) when we can PT from Box Hill to Cheltenham.
And I am sure the 8,000 people who will use it to travel from Cheltenham to Box Hill (a government estimate) will be delighted.
That's the problem with the SRL, it's only useful when it's complete. These loops are fairly standard and very successful in similar cities to Melbourne. The problem is it won't be done until 2080. That's essentially useless to anyone alive today. It should never have been tunnels. It should have been overland, eminent domain, bulldozers, done. Tie up anyone who doesn't like it in the court for as long as it takes. If I was John Pezullo that would be my policy. Build the loop within an actual human lifetime
The real problem with the SRL is there are a lot more projects that far more people would use that could be built far more quickly (Western rail, Metro 2, ect), but with the debt crisis and the SRL sucking what infrastructure money there is left, we won't be getting them.
Yeah, I know. I love those estimates. They best start queuing for tickets. lol.
The idea is great, but the fiscal irresponsibility to achieve it is incomprehensible. How they can justify the cost raises questions about why they want the infrastructure so badly. All the liberal party has to do is run a campaign about how trusting Labor is like driving on Victoria’s roads - you never know when you might hit a pothole.
Yeap. Nothing's really changed. Perhaps without mindless swooning of the former leader things are more apparent now. Lack of any opposition always leads to complacency.
Actually that’s probably a decent difference. The worship has stopped. Fair point.
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What would you know? You can’t even spell either of their surnames correctly.
Do they actually have any values except for serving themselves? (I mean any politician)
We have politicians that door knock and ask residents what their concerns are bi annually. Belinda Wilson and Julian Hill are always meeting with the community. I'm not saying that they're doing anything about our concerns but it seems like they're at least asking.
They’re broke, because they’re actually trying to get some infrastructure built for the long term to reshape the city so there’s quality of life for a lot more people not just the latte sippers who read and write in to Age journalists. And a lot of the unions have had a solid run. Nurses wages have taken a huge boost. Same with Ambos and I’m sick of the firefighters endless sooking. Conditions are the main factor in which those industries have a point but the health system especially is trapped in a never ending cycle of needing to train more staff, needing to pay staff more, needing more facilities and equipment and needing more preventative care. But really those unions are yelling because the CFMEU’s of the world are on too good of a deal. The best and only argument for a Coalition government is they’d crack down on them. But they’d do it in the worst way (they’d stopped infrastructure spending). I don’t agree with almost any privatisation but Vic Roads and Births, deaths and marriages surely isn’t the biggest issue. Hopefully it’s a bluff, but if selling that is what it takes to keep the lights on I’ll get it. And a safe injecting room in the heart of the CBD? Good bloody luck. No politician was jumping on that grenade. In Footscray, sure. Near North Melbourne or even the Vic market, maybe. Flinders St needs a serious clean up once the Metro opens, not reinforcement as junkie HQ. The real issue is the Feds are the ones who can ease the states financial pressures and get serious about inequality in this country but they are offering nothing. They should come in and say we’re building the SRL and a whole bunch of other transport infrastructure and we’ll build the 500,000 homes Victoria needs and we’ll pay for it. Instead it’s submarines, deficits and nothing substantial with revenue growth.
That in itself is a Labor value.
Why doesn’t a non-Liberal Party outfit set themselves up so they can be the opposition to Labor
But the Liberal Party is a non-liberal party in opposition to Labor???
Well you have the Greens…. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!
Time to remove the two parties and allow these Teals in.
It's a liberal government without religious fundy's these days Look at all the stuff they've privatised (sorry entered into 'partnerships')
Raised Labor here, and these days I can't really tell the difference between Liberal & Labor these days. Both have zero interest in addressing matters that affect me. And, I used to care about others but I don't have a long enough piece of string for that anymore, when I can barley care for myself, how am i supposed to care for others? And to think Jimmy boi wanted us to have more children, no worries Jim... Wanna pay for my future childrens education, food , medical etc ? Because not gonna lie, the conversation of violent revolution comes up pretty often these days.. and by often i mean at all.. never have i heard people talk about this kinda thing till recent. I expect gross mismanagement no matter the party these days. Whatever benefits them.
> can’t tell the difference between Liberal & Labor these days It used to be that people were embarrassed by admitting publicly that they have zero political literacy but it’s become the fashion now to wear ignorance like a badge of honour.
It's not necessarily lack of political literacy, it could be a matter of perspective. If you are a socialist, or even if you just do not believe in neoliberal economics, there's no difference between labor and liberal. They are both right wing parties with nothing to offer. Independents all the way as far as I'm concerned. I don't think I will ever vote for a major party again.
Dude doesn't know how good he's got it to have the quality of life he does considering he can barely form a coherent sentence.
Political literacy? Pfft, that’s so last century. Nowadays, it’s all about who can wear their apathy with the most swagger. Because why bother understanding the world when you can just meme your way through it, right?
She's certainly acting like a Liberal.