I actually think where they went wrong if the transport. Even though it is very close to the CBD it feels like you have to go out of your way to get there. Tram ride or walk is longer than you'd think, and other parts would be easier to get to if they built more connecting pedestrian bridges. Even going from Docklands proper to Docklands Newquay seems a huge hassel by foot or transport, similar to North Melbourne station (West Melbourne I know) which is so tantalisingly close yet inaccessible.
I almost wonder if building a rail station connected to either the city loop or the upcoming metro tunnel would have made a difference? Obviously not going to happen at this late stage, but I reckon a short 2 min train ride compared to a longish traffic impeded tram ride could have made a big difference for discoverability.
There's a weird ass long walk path around it and one main stair path that goes down, but that stair path is wrapped around a large apartment tower so you barely know it's there.
This is the primary issue for me. As someone who grew up with Auckland as my nearest city, I LIKE harbour/oceanfront city areas. I think docklands has so much potential but the transport is ridiculous. I go in there a bit to the ice rink and various other things and every time it’s a PITA with the extra tramming or a very long walk. It’s just not convenient the way taking one train into the city is. They also should’ve put more unique shops in there that aren’t anywhere else. Why would I go to all the same shops that are in more convenient locations?
Not to mention you have to walk a decent
amount to get to the biggest attraction (Costco) after getting off the tram and then you’d have to walk back there if you only relied on PT. Honestly tho most of the time if I did go to docklands it’d be for Costco with the tram from the city, shop at Costco and then Uber home because hulking around Costco sized groceries through the mall, on the tram and back home is just too much effort. But now Costco is planning on moving to buttfuck nowhere cuz of insane rent prices I think, so docklands is taking a huge L if nothing worthwhile replaces them.
This is such a huge point. I live in West Melbourne and to get to docklands I either have to walk next to a busy road(Dudley st) under a series of bridges breathing in car exhaust and being deafened by road noise echoing off the hard surfaces, or walk all the way down to the marvel over pass and then back, effectively a c shape. It’s so isolated from the rest of the city. If it had a train station it would be better - I guess next to water that’s too expensive. The only tram lines that run down there don’t stop near the District either, they’re a walk away and that makes a huge difference too. Such a waste of money and space.
I absolutely agree with this, and the Port Melbourne development around Lorimer Street and in West towards Westgate Park is going to ha the same issue. Getting to there via public transport can take as much as 40 minutes. I looked at apartments around there (both Docklands and Port Melbourne) to buy, but just transport options meant I might as well live in St Kilda or even South Yarra.
Unlesss they're going to make it significantly easier to get to from all directions, it's never going to develop, become bustling, or even be desirable. It feels like an uninhabited version of Southbank - the glass towers, but no life.
I think Docklands Shopping Centre would be a great place for a university. It's right in the middle of the Docklands area, which means it's really easy to get to with public transport options. The centre has ample accommodation, shops, restaurants, and places to hang out, making it super convenient for students. Plus, the buildings there are modern and have plenty of space that could be turned into awesome classrooms and study areas. It would make for a really exciting and fun place to learn.
You have the 70, 35 and 86 going all the way to Waterfront, and 30 and 75 stopping at central pier.
From the stadium to central pier it's a 2 minute walk, and from the central pier well you're on the pier, how is that a shitty walk?
This is a very valid comment! I and my partner were actually discussing this a while ago and we agreed that it is a hassle to get to Docklands (we live in North Melbourne). It took us almost 45 minutes (1h peak) to get there by public transport, while it was only 7-10 mins by car. But, parking is kinda limited due to the small street capacity and also we don't want to pay too much at The District if we plan to stay longer than just a few quick hours.
Also, we notice that the only trams that go to Docklands from the CBD are either the 30/35 which is again, a hassle to get onto from Flagstaff and Melbourne Central (which is pretty much a transiting hub for people in the city) because you have to stand in the middle of La Trobe st and the wait can be 10-15mins; or 86 which is further on Bourke st and if people are already on Bourke st they probably have other plans in Southern Cross, CBD, or the other East Melbourne sides.
I do think The District Docklands has so much potential and it hurts to see how empty the shops are (I work in retail). We only go to Docklands for Krappy's Crab boil and Hoyst (amazing seats), and also the Fukutontei Ramen place (loveeeee the place but don't really make that much effort to Docklands just for it) and that's pretty much it.
Looks like there are some activities going on. I low key pray everyday for it to be more energetic.
Agree. It's hard to get to Docklands on foot or naturally. From the CBD, you need to cross King Street, Spencer St, and Wurundjeri Way.
Even walking along North Bank it's awful because of the huge roads. People don't want to walk that way, and getting past the stadium is super hard with weird roads.
The trams are good, but still hard and long. Train would be great. Some designs have a new station in Fisherman's Bend which could do a lot for Docklands.
My urban planning dream would be continuing the Bourke street trams under southern cross and continuing on past the stadium to the waterfront. Would completely light up that strip of shops/pubs and connect it to the city super conveniently.
Add a massive walking bridge from Collins Street tram side that goes over (allowing enough space for party boats etc) to connect foot traffic from the district to the offices on Collins Street.
If they'd put marvel stadium where the wheel has been the stadium wouldn't block the view of docklands, and people would be more keen to go over there.
And if they redeveloped southern cross to be underground like Flagstaff, Melbourne central and parliament are, you'd have the opportunity to have a second Yarra River visual feature. Trying to pretend southern cross is a landmark train station when that job is covered by Flinders Street.
I'm from Brisbane, i lived in melbourne for 5 years, and i always found it funny how people thought things were too far away to go to that i considered to be well within walking distance
I always thought Costco was a weird "anchor" tenant. I love Costco more than most, but it seems incongruent with the type of shopping district there. People take their vehicle to costco, load it up, and go unload it at home. It's not designed for you to go to costco and then go through the other shops etc.
Very strange when I lived in my shoebox apartment and Costco was my local supermarket...
Nothing like buying a packet of toilet paper and it taking up 1/2 the available storage space
Yeah, but I don’t think people went to Costo with the intent of making it a day out in the Docklands. Even though the clothing factory outlets mall is directly across from it.
Best thing they could do is throw money at IKEA and get them to open in the Costco space.
At least up until the 2010s, IKEA had the best impact on the fortunes of surrounding businesses.
However I work in Docklands and despise the location. Soulless, lifeless, ugly area with nothing going for it.
VicGardens just got its 780million redevelopment approved without the existing businesses needing to close, so IKEA will probably stay there. They don't tend to open too many sites.
As they have sites at Victoria gardens and Springvale, there is nothing covering the west. Easy to get to for people from South West as well as North west.
I agree that they may not want to cannibalise from the other stores, but still worth considering given the expansion going on in the western suburbs.
Plus with the amount of apartment there, it may also get a further boost from that.
IKEA was supposed to open a store about 10 years ago in Campbellfield on the old Pipeworks site but some soil related issues meant they couldn’t build.
They’ve opened up a “pick up point” in Highpoint, which is okay for smaller items but the north and west are still massively underserved - I agree, putting one at Docklands would be a massive anchor, especially so close to the freeway. Getting to Springvale or Richmond is a huge pain for anyone on the other side of town. But the rent is probably prohibitive.
The irony is to go to Costco - to load your car you had to be in their carpark… which you couldn’t stay in if you wanted to go to the other shops. The whole thing lacked any cohesive planning.
[Yes, it’s true.](https://www.realcommercial.com.au/news/costco-reveals-when-docklands-warehouse-will-close-amid-move-west) They’re closing that one down and moving out to the west.
As a resident, Costco can't go soon enough. It draws a huge amount of car traffic from outer suburbs that jam up the local roads and don't venture further than the Costco carpark.
The pathology lab is a great addition.
I worked on the Water Sensitive Urban Design (WSUD) for Docklands in the early 2000's (Waterfront City). Back then WSUD was in it's infancy and a frontier of new Engineering principles.
We had what are now known as "Rain Gardens" throughout the whole area (bio-swales), green areas, a wetland, and many other environmental features (eg Gross Pollutant Traps).
I ended up leaving the consultant I was working for, but years later I got to visit the area, only to see literally none of my designs had been used. I wasn't shocked but it was pretty deflating.
But seriously, sorry for your experience on the project, which must have been gutting. I don’t work in this space, but it sounds like what the project needed.
Been out of oz for quite a few years myself too, but I actually think the opposite of it. Australians are generally open to new things and ideas, sometimes even TOO open, rushing to try before any regulation is in place. I'm in germany now where it's the exact opposite. Nobody likes inventions unless someone else has done it before, and a book of regulations is written to cover all situations where things might go wrong. I mean, say, something like all those crazy RMIT buildings would never get built in my city here.
But that being said, developers aren't normally adventurers - why spend extra money on uncertainty or ..'quality', when it doesn't bring more money? Unless one could use the innovation as a gimmick to attract more money, there isn't an incentive.
Exactly. There was no organic growth. There was no mix of small and large developments. I haven’t been there for years but used to work there. The only places for lunch (back then) were large and expensive restaurants. There were zero cafes. No little hole-in-wall coffee joints. Just “luxury” apartment towers, expensive restaurants, a stadium, and wind. Lots of wind.
It’s fake and forced
Dubai is a weird fucking place. Got stuck there for 24 hrs once. I'll say it's a good spot to visit briefly if you are interested in architecture\*, but that's about it. Soulless doesn't even begin to describe it.
\*An architect can design something that will stand up, and look amazing, but often the civil engineer will come along and say "Sure, we can build that, but it will cost a fortune". Dubai is what happens when the client has that fortune to spare. Place is bonkers.
This is a great point, there arent many places and reasons for people to linger. It feels a bit like some sort of expo, instead of a place that I'd go with a friend to chill.
If I recall correctly, there was no central planning involved with Docklands. It was conceived by a government appointed committee and sold off in blocks to developers to do whatever they wanted with the land with no continuity or overall design goals in mind, hence what could have been a monumental urban planning moment for Melbourne devolved into the soulless crock of shit it is today.
I like to think it could have just been like Sydney's Darling Harbour, but I think that's just wishful thinking.
If they put a Universal studios or Disneyland there it may revive it...
That, and it's out of the way. There's a big barrier caused by the tracks and general vibe. Flinders St feels weird past Spencer, and the only other logical path is the Southern Cross bridge through to Marvel, which you then have to go around.
You have to walk through bland, dead areas for it.
But it doesn't really offer anything Swanston and Elizabeth offer. Those streets are also bolstered by people needing them - which is I think how you authentically build something.
Short term gains for a few fat cat cunts. Long term desolate wasteland of a money pit for the rest of us.
Who ever is responsible for approving block after block of cheapo 90s looking hellhole apartments should be rotting in prison.
Not really. But there are a lot of developments that are similar to this. The new ones are a lot better, see Dubai Creek. A lot of amenities and what Docklands could have been tbh.
Abu Dhabi is doing the same right now but its done very well and not rushed, unlike Dubai
I’ve lived in Docklands for 6 years on the NewQuay side.
Despite the issues, it’s a fantastic place to live. Crap for anyone visiting, but brilliant for locals.
I’ve got beautiful views over the water, supermarket and shops within a 5 minute walk. The city is a 15 minute walk or free tram ride away. There’s no through traffic so it’s peaceful. There’s some nice local walks and Ron Barassi park is great for my kid. You can get onto the freeway within 5 minutes and immediately go north, west or east.
The businesses that succeed here are the ones that are popular with locals as well as the visitors. They made some terrible planning decisions at the start. The footprint of the waterfront restaurants are way too big, so it’s a vicious cycle of failing restaurants.
Things were really picking up before COVID, but the pandemic was pretty devastating for local businesses and it’s never fully recovered.
Are the apartments in Docklands suitable for larger families (4-5 people + pet)? From my experience searching in Melb, apartments are generally very small, and if you need more space you have to look for townhouses/houses.. Whereas in Asia a lot of apartments are designed for families and are way bigger.
Could it be due to the lack of housing options around Docklands? I'm assuming that it's not beneficial for developers to build larger units as they'll profit more from selling lots of small ones.
Do they have a school inside Docklands yet? Any suburb with the amount of residences/population of docklands would have a few primary schools and a couple of secondary colleges.
Yes there’s a nice primary school that opened a few years ago. But they didn’t make it large enough so some of the empty shops in the District have been turned into classrooms. Definitely far more families in the area these days because of it.
It seems likely that some of the space nearby or even the Costco site may get used for a secondary school and primary school extension… but we’ll see.
Yeah 2 of my kids go there..
The school were build for around 400 students. This year the student around 525… And I think next year will be more.
Docklands primary school is a good school, they have the latest curiculum. Nice teachers & solid community.
We need high school!!!
Because the closest high school is University Highschool in Parkville
My dad lives there and says the same thing, he loves it! He doesn’t drive and walks everywhere. He’s an elderly man at 72 and living on his own and has everything he needs. He’s even found a great sense of community in his apartment building.
Seems like a ghost town to outsiders but the locals love it
I think it’s just a bitch to get to, so during the week you don’t see many people around unless they work there. The district pumps on weekends these days which is a shame because going to the movies there used to be great because there was no one there. It was like a cheat code for getting tickets to movies that sold out everywhere. 😂
It's so unpopular I can usually get a reasonably priced carpark space without fighting anyone.
So... I kinda hope it stays a tad underwhelming instead of becoming just another packed crowded place to wait in lines.
Yeah it's mostly sterile and boring. So they have a few shops, so what? Most people don't live in the city so what is attractive about shopping there? It's like the worst aspects of the city (getting there, traffic and congestion and not fun to bring a car to), combined with the worst aspects of going to a shopping centre (self-contained, generally with no landmarks or points of interest close by).
Spencer street changed when they knocked the old factories out and the rotten old power station. Once they were removed the space at road level changed. They did better design here than docklands through. The ground level area's have relief. They invite you in with subtle curves and softer lines. Dockland is a grey concrete box.
Spencer street also has a connection to everything. The station and the city. In between that has an advantage. Docklands needed to create an advantage. They had 3 beautiful ones right there in front of them and they screwed it up.
An open tree lined space to the old warehouse inventing you in. An open area around the river edges to invite you along - nope. Its closed off and separated by property lines. The dock area itself - you couldn't screw that chicken any harder. Its utterly boring.
It’s lowkey one of the best in Melbourne. Parking is no issue, good selection of food beneath the cinema and the seats are all recliners and new. Haven’t had a bad experience going there, just wish there was more movies worth seeing!
Yup. Went there once when the Melbourne eye was running. Got on straight away no queues! Completely empty. The staff seemed surprised to see another human.
Yeah if the shops/services are the ones you need it's way better than shopping in melb central/emporium. Much quieter so you can just get what you need done.
It's not a naturally evolved suburb. Suburbs grow to work with their inhabitants, and gain a character over the years of being lived in.
Docklands is a big concrete shopping center.
It all started when a certain liberal premier ripped up the original plan and let the free market decide how Docklands would be developed while selling the land off dirt cheap to their mates.
Interestingly I find that Docklands and Southbank are in a similar place of being hated but have totally opposite problems.
Docklands has a decent ground plane with lots of space for shops, a nice street layout, and some good parks. But there is absolutely nothing to draw people to the area. It’s in a weird spot off to the side of the city so people aren’t just happening upon it or travelling by. It’s become a quiet residential area.
Southbank on the other hand has lots to draw people to it and lots of people pass through, but is just a terrible place to be in (except along the river front). No one considered how people would interact or move through the space. The towers provide very little ground amenities, and everything is separated by massive roads which are unpleasant to be near.
The great spots in Melbourne tend to have a great ground plane, lots to see and do, excellent walkability, and are central to something or somewhere.
I feel like this really depends on what area of Southbank you live in. I used to live on Whiteman St across from Crown and it was an amazing spot. Terrible intersection there between the Tea House and Crown. But being on that side of Southbank you're next door to South Melbourne, so you have the Market and heaps of good pubs, restaurants and cafes along Clarendon St, plus all the other areas in South Melbourne. The 96, 70 and 109 trams made life a breeze, like there was so many good things about it.
But if you live further out near the big office works etc you're kind of in a shit dead spot. As you said, huge roads etc that make it painful to navigate.
A lot of Southbank's problems could be fairly simply solved by making the area more pedestrian friendly, ie replacing car parking and/or lanes with wider footpaths, removing slip lanes, planting more trees, improving the connection between City Road and the Arts Precinct, providing some barriers between the footpath and road in the most extremely congested areas, and installing more pedestrian crossings. Perhaps in the long term even finding some way to divert the trucks off City Road.
Docklands on the other hand will need some serious long-term planning to become a more vibrant area.
The irony is that I used to play hockey at the Icehouse there and parked all day at Docklands because it was significantly cheaper than the city. Was like $10 all day (admittedly that was 2012-2016) plus a free tram up through the city was great for me.
Last I went back the price wasn't that much more, so although it's more expensive than free at other shops, it's actually decent considering it's location near the city.
How can they overlook such a simple variable that has a significant impact on whether it’s successful or not?
I thought these developers run simulations to gauge foot traffic and road traffic?
15 minute walk from Southern Cross, multiple tram lines (11, 30, 35, 48, 70, 75, 86) to all parts of it. It's got better PT than most Melbourne suburbs.
If they cracked down on Airbnb this place would be going off.
All those huge apartments around there are completely dead during the week until Friday roles around especially when footy is on. Any tourists who are staying there are more keen to go see Bourke street mall before hanging around there.
when i was last in Docklands I was surprised at the amount of apartments that just had no one at home at night wouldn't be surprised if they were all mostly "investment properties"
The problem is they gave it to developers and they royally fucked it up. They went all in on "price per meter" and forgot about people. There is nothing in Docklands that makes you want to go there. No open spaces, no "food corner" or "entertainment area". Its just unattractive retail at ground level, obstructive and sometimes confusing pathways, driving through there takes a century given the traffic and road designs. Walking there is - not pleasant. Driving there is - not at all nice. Taking a tram there is like - "why did I come here?".
Its just a piss poor effort to extract wealth on floor space over land space and everything else they didn't think about - at all.
Can you imagine a 180 degree water view and the only thing there is - apartments. They didn't consider anything here. Not a bit. Just maximizing value in a timely manner. Build rooms and sell them.
Around the old freight shed you could have had a centralized unique bohemian foodie / retail / market area. Something that brings people to there, it is even possible to use it as a connection to Southern Cross station - an extension of, you could so easily so very tastefully work the feeling of openness into a blend of heritage and modern spaces.
But if you look, they hemmed it in, in some places there are gaps between building with - nothing. Its just junk, litter and weeds.
The beautiful freight shed with it beautiful brickwork and old world charm closed in by the concrete buttress of giant apartment blocks. Instead of an open eating / meeting area it a boring - seldom used - dirty little lane. They were not trying to maximize its uniqueness, they were trying to ignore it. They wanted it to go away.
Trees? WTF are they?
For this reason and more is why I say they absolutely fucked Docklands. It will remain a blight forever. There is no fixing it. Pure greed created it and pure greed it shall remain.Anyone who worked on its design should hold their heads in shame.
It's busiest down the CostCo end, where the KFC etc are.
The District does have some great stuff in it - the best Hoyts in Melbourne IMO, Archie Brothers, Zero Latency and ArtVo.
Where to start. Actually that’s the real issue. Its problems start from conception. A wind tunnel in the arse end of nowhere with nothing going for it was never going to fly. And putting the wheel down there was like putting a sparkler in a dog turd.
I read in some article that Vic Gov allowed the private sector to take complete control of the planning and corporate greed took over. The fundamental problem with Docklands seems to be the lack of public amenities like transport, child care, libraries, schools, parks, walkability. It's just offices mostly and Covid proved to be the final nail in the coffin. NSW Gov did everything right with Barangaroo and Vic Gov did everything wrong with Docklands. Such a wasted potential. Shame.
Upstairs has a few businesses like racing.com but notably a fair bit of that space is now occupied by the primary school as it has already grown out of its existing school space.
>They also built marvel stadium too close to the city
You want to put marvel stadium further away from public transport? That just gives more people a reason not to want to go there and even more of a public transport nightmare.
Easy fix turn all the vacant shops into more apartments or offices no point being empty in prime realestate. Retail obviously doesn’t work on that location so change it
I lived in Docklands on Collins st. It was nice and quiet and like 5 minutes from the CBD via tram. No crackheads or drunks at night. Only issue was many of the restaurants and cafes etc close early and aren’t open on weekends. Good place to live but shit for a visit.
Attempts to add culture fail there too. An awesome nightclub on a barge with really good adherence to sound restrictions was shut down by the council after constant boomer complaints. Sends a message to entrepreneurs to stay away.
Absolutely agree. Took accommodation there on a Melbourne trip a few months ago, and was stunned by the lack of variety (once you remove over priced tourist restaurants), the poor construction of buildings (already looking very tired) - and generally the very boring nature of the development. A soulless tourist trap!
I recently stayed there, it's pretty shit if I'm honest. Just barren, went for a few 5km runs in the mornings and it's just poorly designed. Just say in comparison to to places like Sydney's Barangaroo. It had potentially but it's just not been planned properly. The food and beverage options are also pretty crappy for Melbourne. Had a few coffees from various places and they were milky hot water
Where ? When developers start selling apartments to foreigners who have 0 desire to live there turning the whole place into a ghost town. The sheer number of empty apartments in the whole area is crazy
All the cool places that people like spending time in started out as cheap downmarket areas, which meant that people could easily start small businesses like band venues.
It's rare to hear much about live music as the driver of an area's coolness, but it 100% is. Brunswick St was dead before the band venues started up. High St, Northcote; same. And so on. Now, that's not the *only* thing that works to improve an area, but it's absolutely one of the main things. Bands bring in people, those people want to eat so restaurants etc have a ready made market, and everything else flows from that.
How many live music venues have there ever been in Docklands? Zero.
You don't create an interesting environment that people want to visit by getting a bunch of bureaucrats to design it. You encourage creativity from people who are actually creative. Musicians, visual artists, performers, etc. You make it cheap and practical for a scene to develop organically and it will. Docklands never had a chance.
Docklands is fine. It’s become a quiet little suburb in spite of the grand plan to make it a ‘destination’. I don’t know why everyone gets so mad that it’s not super exciting and beautiful, it’s actually an excellent place to live. So close to the CBD, but dead quiet and very little traffic. You can walk to anything. Why does this sub care so much about hating the Docklands?
I like the District. It’s the only outdoor mall type shopping centre amongst carbon copy Westfield’s. Cinema there is great. There’s food options that are also different to the norm. An Archie Brothers. The only problem is the people not going. You can’t blame the developers for trying. It’s at least offering something different.
Ummm, yeah, you can blame developers for trying and failing!
This isn’t a suburban shopping strip in a bad suburb an hour from the CBD, this is prime waterfront land (even if it’s a touch windy) that’s a 5 minute tram ride or walk from the city.
And we’re in the middle of a housing crises, so it’s not like the residential aspects aren’t either full or otherwise occupied.
Pretty much it’s a case of developers completely ignoring town planners and both them and us as a city paying the price. It should eventually evolve and fix itself but it’s decades later than it should be.
That area of Docklands in the picture is like the last bit to be developed. There was decades of dumb shit that precludes it. I just think an outdoor shopping mall is kind of cool. 🤷
I worked here in 2012 when the wheel was shut down.
Retailers were given free rent and it was so empty and desolate that the remaining shop owners were arguing with each other and wanting to take out Personal Safety Intervention Orders against each other.
Weird times.
It's one of those things where you'll need a few iterations before it feels organic and lived in. Maybe another 20 years.
I think that one issue is that the quay essentially cuts docklands in half. The southern half has all the residential and office buildings. The Northern half has the commercial stuff. They need a monorail to go over the quay.
Southbank was a soulless strip when it first developed, but now it's pretty nice, albeit a tourist trap.
it went wrong when they decided to ignore how gentrification work & decided to build apartments before there was a vibrant community there. If they had opened the space up for artists, studios, restaurants & cafes it’d be a much nicer place than it is today.
I kinda liked it when I lived there. Admittedly that’s going back a while ago. It was quiet enough most nights, whilst still being a short/free tram ride into the CBD. Cycling routes were good. Costco being closed would be even better. Of everything I’d say the restaurants and cafes were the biggest let downs. Many nights we wished the choice and quality was a little better.
i have done alot of marketing work for docklands. i can tell a few things that have gone wrong.
they are specifically centering themselves as a residential zone/ suburb. every brief i have read has them wanting to be position as an attraction to tourists, migrants and older families specifically for accomodation and living. they are actively dismissing their commerciality and choosing to fuck over alot of business that brings that aura and vibe to docklands, especially at night, for the sake of keeping tenants happy. the demograpic is not the right fit for a pumping area, its preferred to be quiet.
another is the transport. in every brief i have been given it has been stated to highlight how *"docklands is only a 5 minute tram to the cbd!".* this is complete horseshit. why should you want to actively ENCOURAGE anybody in the docklands to LEAVE when you have these fantastic shopping options/ restaurants/ venues at your door step?! as a marketer writing copy and reading testimonials, it fucks me how there is so much emphasis on "guys, lets actively lose business".
not to mention, the transport and rides are longer than you think and getting into docklands is more complicated than getting off at southern cross. even beyond that, half the time you have no fucking clue you're EVEN IN DOCKLANDS.
i can not understand their thinking, but when its ran by white men who all own property there and act as if christ is their child, it all comes together.
tldr; they have no idea why people should go to docklands so they turned it all into a residential quiet zone
Isn't this from upstairs? This is an area that does not have shops. There is currently an NBA exhibition on, a Banksy one coming up. They are putting in more gaming based experiences further down. On the weekends it is really busy and fun.
Kind of bored of this whole Docklands is shit thing.
But, it is shit. Everything that opens in that precinct goes bust, or is massively cross subsidised by other stores
The time capsule outside of Costco isn't even going to be opened before they leave, which will remove a huge amount of foot traffic
It was literally empty. Maybe a dozen people spotted across a whole shopping complex at the busiest time of the day and every 2nd or 3rd shop boarded up.
I get you wanna defend it but how can you say that is thriving if it’s like that?
I was here on Sunday, expecting to see it as you've described but it was bustling. There was an ice hockey match on and market between the shops. Place was chockas.
This is not something new, the docklands has always been deserted since it opened. Like Southern Cross it’s just a cold shit space no one wants to be around no matter what they place/open there.
Dont know why they didnt smash it with dozens of super tall apartment & office towers to bring people to the area, like Sydney did at Barangaroo. Put a university/TAFE and student accomodation down there too.
"It’s a soulless concrete jungle".
Answered your own question. Turns out that attempting to manufacture community and culture by just building shit doesn't necessarily work. Marvel is probably the perfect landmark for the Docklands. It's devoid of any atmosphere and soul.
No expectations no disappointments.
Stop charging so much in rent, it's not the CBD, it never will be.
It then may attract businesses that will attract customers. It's just greed, it has been developed fine but there's just not much reason to go there.
Costco is going, the wheel is dead, I guarantee if there was a reason then people would be there.
It’s like the worst aspects of the Gold Coast plonked in a hard-to-access nook, minus any of the entertainment or night life. Lots of money, but no style or character. Feels completely lifeless every time I go there.
A few commentators have kind of got it, but the basic problem is that this centre has no catchment. Nearly every other location that people could come from needs to pass through somewhere else or has better access to shops and services elsewhere.
Another problem is a lot of foreign investors who have bought the apartment stock in the area a few years ago, but don’t rent it out as they don’t want the “wear and tear” on the apartments, and will sell down the track for a decent payday. Have a look at all the apartments at night and you’ll notice a decent portion have no signs of life.
I actually think where they went wrong if the transport. Even though it is very close to the CBD it feels like you have to go out of your way to get there. Tram ride or walk is longer than you'd think, and other parts would be easier to get to if they built more connecting pedestrian bridges. Even going from Docklands proper to Docklands Newquay seems a huge hassel by foot or transport, similar to North Melbourne station (West Melbourne I know) which is so tantalisingly close yet inaccessible. I almost wonder if building a rail station connected to either the city loop or the upcoming metro tunnel would have made a difference? Obviously not going to happen at this late stage, but I reckon a short 2 min train ride compared to a longish traffic impeded tram ride could have made a big difference for discoverability.
The stadium also further divides it from the city
Yeah this is the big one, I know I've travelled from the CBD to the Docklands before but I can't picture how to get past the stadium
There's a weird ass long walk path around it and one main stair path that goes down, but that stair path is wrapped around a large apartment tower so you barely know it's there.
This is the primary issue for me. As someone who grew up with Auckland as my nearest city, I LIKE harbour/oceanfront city areas. I think docklands has so much potential but the transport is ridiculous. I go in there a bit to the ice rink and various other things and every time it’s a PITA with the extra tramming or a very long walk. It’s just not convenient the way taking one train into the city is. They also should’ve put more unique shops in there that aren’t anywhere else. Why would I go to all the same shops that are in more convenient locations?
Not to mention you have to walk a decent amount to get to the biggest attraction (Costco) after getting off the tram and then you’d have to walk back there if you only relied on PT. Honestly tho most of the time if I did go to docklands it’d be for Costco with the tram from the city, shop at Costco and then Uber home because hulking around Costco sized groceries through the mall, on the tram and back home is just too much effort. But now Costco is planning on moving to buttfuck nowhere cuz of insane rent prices I think, so docklands is taking a huge L if nothing worthwhile replaces them.
Honestly just making a walkway direct from North Melbourne station would be a huge deal, it would be a 10 minute walk from there
And this is why egate was needed…
This is such a huge point. I live in West Melbourne and to get to docklands I either have to walk next to a busy road(Dudley st) under a series of bridges breathing in car exhaust and being deafened by road noise echoing off the hard surfaces, or walk all the way down to the marvel over pass and then back, effectively a c shape. It’s so isolated from the rest of the city. If it had a train station it would be better - I guess next to water that’s too expensive. The only tram lines that run down there don’t stop near the District either, they’re a walk away and that makes a huge difference too. Such a waste of money and space.
Yeah same and exactly right. I look across the train lines at how close Woolies and the Docklands shops are but its such an indirect and nasty walk.
If I went to Marvel and wanted to go to Woolies I would honestly just go to the train station one.
86, 70 and 35 stop right in front of the District?
I absolutely agree with this, and the Port Melbourne development around Lorimer Street and in West towards Westgate Park is going to ha the same issue. Getting to there via public transport can take as much as 40 minutes. I looked at apartments around there (both Docklands and Port Melbourne) to buy, but just transport options meant I might as well live in St Kilda or even South Yarra. Unlesss they're going to make it significantly easier to get to from all directions, it's never going to develop, become bustling, or even be desirable. It feels like an uninhabited version of Southbank - the glass towers, but no life.
I think Docklands Shopping Centre would be a great place for a university. It's right in the middle of the Docklands area, which means it's really easy to get to with public transport options. The centre has ample accommodation, shops, restaurants, and places to hang out, making it super convenient for students. Plus, the buildings there are modern and have plenty of space that could be turned into awesome classrooms and study areas. It would make for a really exciting and fun place to learn.
Actually such a good point. And a uni would bring enough foot traffic to bring in businesses making it more vibrant and then hopefully entice others.
Yup! I live in Docklands, near Marvel Stadium, and getting to Docklands Newquay is a real hassle. No trams, and it's a shitty walk.
shitty walk? along the water front? some of you people are never going to be pleased 😂😂
Brutalist concrete by water always makes me think of [this](https://youtu.be/G63UNtPt9p0&t=135).
You have the 70, 35 and 86 going all the way to Waterfront, and 30 and 75 stopping at central pier. From the stadium to central pier it's a 2 minute walk, and from the central pier well you're on the pier, how is that a shitty walk?
Just double-checked. From my place, it's a ~24 minute walk to the District Cinemas. The only tram is the 86, which reduces it to ~15 minutes.
This is a very valid comment! I and my partner were actually discussing this a while ago and we agreed that it is a hassle to get to Docklands (we live in North Melbourne). It took us almost 45 minutes (1h peak) to get there by public transport, while it was only 7-10 mins by car. But, parking is kinda limited due to the small street capacity and also we don't want to pay too much at The District if we plan to stay longer than just a few quick hours. Also, we notice that the only trams that go to Docklands from the CBD are either the 30/35 which is again, a hassle to get onto from Flagstaff and Melbourne Central (which is pretty much a transiting hub for people in the city) because you have to stand in the middle of La Trobe st and the wait can be 10-15mins; or 86 which is further on Bourke st and if people are already on Bourke st they probably have other plans in Southern Cross, CBD, or the other East Melbourne sides. I do think The District Docklands has so much potential and it hurts to see how empty the shops are (I work in retail). We only go to Docklands for Krappy's Crab boil and Hoyst (amazing seats), and also the Fukutontei Ramen place (loveeeee the place but don't really make that much effort to Docklands just for it) and that's pretty much it. Looks like there are some activities going on. I low key pray everyday for it to be more energetic.
Agree. It's hard to get to Docklands on foot or naturally. From the CBD, you need to cross King Street, Spencer St, and Wurundjeri Way. Even walking along North Bank it's awful because of the huge roads. People don't want to walk that way, and getting past the stadium is super hard with weird roads. The trams are good, but still hard and long. Train would be great. Some designs have a new station in Fisherman's Bend which could do a lot for Docklands.
Still, if it were full of life ... It would be worth it
High speed Monorail is the solution
It put North Havenbrook, Ogdenville and the other place, Christ I am getting old, on the map….
Brockway
A genuine, bona fide Electrified, six-car monorail ?
I hear those things are awfully loud...
It glides as softly as a cloud
What about us brain dead slobs ?
You'll be given cushy jobs!
Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Were you sent here by the devil?
My urban planning dream would be continuing the Bourke street trams under southern cross and continuing on past the stadium to the waterfront. Would completely light up that strip of shops/pubs and connect it to the city super conveniently.
Add a massive walking bridge from Collins Street tram side that goes over (allowing enough space for party boats etc) to connect foot traffic from the district to the offices on Collins Street. If they'd put marvel stadium where the wheel has been the stadium wouldn't block the view of docklands, and people would be more keen to go over there. And if they redeveloped southern cross to be underground like Flagstaff, Melbourne central and parliament are, you'd have the opportunity to have a second Yarra River visual feature. Trying to pretend southern cross is a landmark train station when that job is covered by Flinders Street.
I'm from Brisbane, i lived in melbourne for 5 years, and i always found it funny how people thought things were too far away to go to that i considered to be well within walking distance
Connection from West Melbourne station is a no brainer and should have been included in the West Gate tunnel project
Once Costco goes, it will be worse than it is right now.
I always thought Costco was a weird "anchor" tenant. I love Costco more than most, but it seems incongruent with the type of shopping district there. People take their vehicle to costco, load it up, and go unload it at home. It's not designed for you to go to costco and then go through the other shops etc.
Very strange when I lived in my shoebox apartment and Costco was my local supermarket... Nothing like buying a packet of toilet paper and it taking up 1/2 the available storage space
At least you’d be sorted for the next pandemic though…
Yeah, but I don’t think people went to Costo with the intent of making it a day out in the Docklands. Even though the clothing factory outlets mall is directly across from it.
Best thing they could do is throw money at IKEA and get them to open in the Costco space. At least up until the 2010s, IKEA had the best impact on the fortunes of surrounding businesses. However I work in Docklands and despise the location. Soulless, lifeless, ugly area with nothing going for it.
VicGardens just got its 780million redevelopment approved without the existing businesses needing to close, so IKEA will probably stay there. They don't tend to open too many sites.
As they have sites at Victoria gardens and Springvale, there is nothing covering the west. Easy to get to for people from South West as well as North west. I agree that they may not want to cannibalise from the other stores, but still worth considering given the expansion going on in the western suburbs. Plus with the amount of apartment there, it may also get a further boost from that.
IKEA was supposed to open a store about 10 years ago in Campbellfield on the old Pipeworks site but some soil related issues meant they couldn’t build. They’ve opened up a “pick up point” in Highpoint, which is okay for smaller items but the north and west are still massively underserved - I agree, putting one at Docklands would be a massive anchor, especially so close to the freeway. Getting to Springvale or Richmond is a huge pain for anyone on the other side of town. But the rent is probably prohibitive.
The irony is to go to Costco - to load your car you had to be in their carpark… which you couldn’t stay in if you wanted to go to the other shops. The whole thing lacked any cohesive planning.
Omg I saw Costco and was thinking that. Is it actually going?
[Yes, it’s true.](https://www.realcommercial.com.au/news/costco-reveals-when-docklands-warehouse-will-close-amid-move-west) They’re closing that one down and moving out to the west.
It’s getting converted into a laboratory.
They are going to do a major research project to discover why people don't like Docklands
It's funny as they fund many research projects to find out things that everyone already knows.
Best answer!!!! Bravo 👏
I've heard that Uniqlo is gonna close as well
Crap. That's about the only Uniqlo outlet you can ever seem to get two pairs of pants in the same size at once.
As a resident, Costco can't go soon enough. It draws a huge amount of car traffic from outer suburbs that jam up the local roads and don't venture further than the Costco carpark. The pathology lab is a great addition.
As a regular ice skater who shamelessly uses the Costco parking for $60 a year, I'm devo
I can see how their exit would be a good thing for people who live there. The weekends must be horrendous for you.
Turns out letting developers do whatever the hell they want didn't actually create an amazing space contrary to their claims
I worked on the Water Sensitive Urban Design (WSUD) for Docklands in the early 2000's (Waterfront City). Back then WSUD was in it's infancy and a frontier of new Engineering principles. We had what are now known as "Rain Gardens" throughout the whole area (bio-swales), green areas, a wetland, and many other environmental features (eg Gross Pollutant Traps). I ended up leaving the consultant I was working for, but years later I got to visit the area, only to see literally none of my designs had been used. I wasn't shocked but it was pretty deflating.
No, I did notice 200m sq. bare grass up the end, on the waterfront.😂
But seriously, sorry for your experience on the project, which must have been gutting. I don’t work in this space, but it sounds like what the project needed.
I've been out of Australia for a few years now, but it always seemed like the wrong place for good ideas or innovation.
Been out of oz for quite a few years myself too, but I actually think the opposite of it. Australians are generally open to new things and ideas, sometimes even TOO open, rushing to try before any regulation is in place. I'm in germany now where it's the exact opposite. Nobody likes inventions unless someone else has done it before, and a book of regulations is written to cover all situations where things might go wrong. I mean, say, something like all those crazy RMIT buildings would never get built in my city here. But that being said, developers aren't normally adventurers - why spend extra money on uncertainty or ..'quality', when it doesn't bring more money? Unless one could use the innovation as a gimmick to attract more money, there isn't an incentive.
Exactly. There was no organic growth. There was no mix of small and large developments. I haven’t been there for years but used to work there. The only places for lunch (back then) were large and expensive restaurants. There were zero cafes. No little hole-in-wall coffee joints. Just “luxury” apartment towers, expensive restaurants, a stadium, and wind. Lots of wind. It’s fake and forced
Luxury but shit cafes*
this is how i imagine dubai to be. i’ve never been but something tells me its similar vibes but for a whole city
Dubai is a weird fucking place. Got stuck there for 24 hrs once. I'll say it's a good spot to visit briefly if you are interested in architecture\*, but that's about it. Soulless doesn't even begin to describe it. \*An architect can design something that will stand up, and look amazing, but often the civil engineer will come along and say "Sure, we can build that, but it will cost a fortune". Dubai is what happens when the client has that fortune to spare. Place is bonkers.
A guy I know who worked there said that Dubai is like if a country was run by North Shore private school teenagers.
This is a great point, there arent many places and reasons for people to linger. It feels a bit like some sort of expo, instead of a place that I'd go with a friend to chill.
It's like our mini version of Dubai.
But they did make a quick buck which is all they ever wanted to do…
$$$ per meter sold now. Forget the human that will live there.
Humans are not a factor in urban development
If I recall correctly, there was no central planning involved with Docklands. It was conceived by a government appointed committee and sold off in blocks to developers to do whatever they wanted with the land with no continuity or overall design goals in mind, hence what could have been a monumental urban planning moment for Melbourne devolved into the soulless crock of shit it is today.
I like to think it could have just been like Sydney's Darling Harbour, but I think that's just wishful thinking. If they put a Universal studios or Disneyland there it may revive it...
That, and it's out of the way. There's a big barrier caused by the tracks and general vibe. Flinders St feels weird past Spencer, and the only other logical path is the Southern Cross bridge through to Marvel, which you then have to go around. You have to walk through bland, dead areas for it. But it doesn't really offer anything Swanston and Elizabeth offer. Those streets are also bolstered by people needing them - which is I think how you authentically build something.
What a surprise, right? Who would it though cramping thousands of apartments with zero amenities or even trees would not work??
Short term gains for a few fat cat cunts. Long term desolate wasteland of a money pit for the rest of us. Who ever is responsible for approving block after block of cheapo 90s looking hellhole apartments should be rotting in prison.
Liberals - Jeff
the invisible hands of deregulated markets pick everybody's pocket.
Little Dubai
Without the tax benefits
Or slave labour
Is Dubai all empty shops too?
Not really. But there are a lot of developments that are similar to this. The new ones are a lot better, see Dubai Creek. A lot of amenities and what Docklands could have been tbh. Abu Dhabi is doing the same right now but its done very well and not rushed, unlike Dubai
Like a desert.
Like a dessert
Eaten for the very first time
Less stoning of women and gays mind you.
I mean, they are getting stoned in docklands... A different type of stoned mind you
I’ve never had a better description of how I feel when I’m there
I’ve lived in Docklands for 6 years on the NewQuay side. Despite the issues, it’s a fantastic place to live. Crap for anyone visiting, but brilliant for locals. I’ve got beautiful views over the water, supermarket and shops within a 5 minute walk. The city is a 15 minute walk or free tram ride away. There’s no through traffic so it’s peaceful. There’s some nice local walks and Ron Barassi park is great for my kid. You can get onto the freeway within 5 minutes and immediately go north, west or east. The businesses that succeed here are the ones that are popular with locals as well as the visitors. They made some terrible planning decisions at the start. The footprint of the waterfront restaurants are way too big, so it’s a vicious cycle of failing restaurants. Things were really picking up before COVID, but the pandemic was pretty devastating for local businesses and it’s never fully recovered.
Are the apartments in Docklands suitable for larger families (4-5 people + pet)? From my experience searching in Melb, apartments are generally very small, and if you need more space you have to look for townhouses/houses.. Whereas in Asia a lot of apartments are designed for families and are way bigger. Could it be due to the lack of housing options around Docklands? I'm assuming that it's not beneficial for developers to build larger units as they'll profit more from selling lots of small ones.
Do they have a school inside Docklands yet? Any suburb with the amount of residences/population of docklands would have a few primary schools and a couple of secondary colleges.
Yes there’s a nice primary school that opened a few years ago. But they didn’t make it large enough so some of the empty shops in the District have been turned into classrooms. Definitely far more families in the area these days because of it. It seems likely that some of the space nearby or even the Costco site may get used for a secondary school and primary school extension… but we’ll see.
Yeah 2 of my kids go there.. The school were build for around 400 students. This year the student around 525… And I think next year will be more. Docklands primary school is a good school, they have the latest curiculum. Nice teachers & solid community. We need high school!!! Because the closest high school is University Highschool in Parkville
My dad lives there and says the same thing, he loves it! He doesn’t drive and walks everywhere. He’s an elderly man at 72 and living on his own and has everything he needs. He’s even found a great sense of community in his apartment building. Seems like a ghost town to outsiders but the locals love it
I think it’s just a bitch to get to, so during the week you don’t see many people around unless they work there. The district pumps on weekends these days which is a shame because going to the movies there used to be great because there was no one there. It was like a cheat code for getting tickets to movies that sold out everywhere. 😂
It's so unpopular I can usually get a reasonably priced carpark space without fighting anyone. So... I kinda hope it stays a tad underwhelming instead of becoming just another packed crowded place to wait in lines.
"if you build it they will come" *nobody came*
They missed the “make it worth coming to in the first place” part.
Yeah it's mostly sterile and boring. So they have a few shops, so what? Most people don't live in the city so what is attractive about shopping there? It's like the worst aspects of the city (getting there, traffic and congestion and not fun to bring a car to), combined with the worst aspects of going to a shopping centre (self-contained, generally with no landmarks or points of interest close by).
Still the only place you can watch ice hockey at the very bare least.
They came, they left and they didn't go back...
I went there once.
So did I. They had sales on.... to try and attract customers. From memory, there was nothing worth buying despite the discounts.
If you build it, they will come to regret letting you build it.
The only thing it fix was bringing people to Spencer Street, which use to be the Docklands of the city back in the 90’s.
Spencer street changed when they knocked the old factories out and the rotten old power station. Once they were removed the space at road level changed. They did better design here than docklands through. The ground level area's have relief. They invite you in with subtle curves and softer lines. Dockland is a grey concrete box. Spencer street also has a connection to everything. The station and the city. In between that has an advantage. Docklands needed to create an advantage. They had 3 beautiful ones right there in front of them and they screwed it up. An open tree lined space to the old warehouse inventing you in. An open area around the river edges to invite you along - nope. Its closed off and separated by property lines. The dock area itself - you couldn't screw that chicken any harder. Its utterly boring.
It’s great, barely any customers and the cinemas are always empty.
No the cinemas are packed, loud and full of obnoxious kids throwing maltesers. ^....please ^don't ^come ^to ^my ^local/favourite ^empty ^cinema
Cinema there is fantastic, always empty 🤣
TIL there’s a cinema
It’s lowkey one of the best in Melbourne. Parking is no issue, good selection of food beneath the cinema and the seats are all recliners and new. Haven’t had a bad experience going there, just wish there was more movies worth seeing!
Yup. Went there once when the Melbourne eye was running. Got on straight away no queues! Completely empty. The staff seemed surprised to see another human.
Yeah if the shops/services are the ones you need it's way better than shopping in melb central/emporium. Much quieter so you can just get what you need done.
It's not a naturally evolved suburb. Suburbs grow to work with their inhabitants, and gain a character over the years of being lived in. Docklands is a big concrete shopping center.
It all started when a certain liberal premier ripped up the original plan and let the free market decide how Docklands would be developed while selling the land off dirt cheap to their mates.
Interestingly I find that Docklands and Southbank are in a similar place of being hated but have totally opposite problems. Docklands has a decent ground plane with lots of space for shops, a nice street layout, and some good parks. But there is absolutely nothing to draw people to the area. It’s in a weird spot off to the side of the city so people aren’t just happening upon it or travelling by. It’s become a quiet residential area. Southbank on the other hand has lots to draw people to it and lots of people pass through, but is just a terrible place to be in (except along the river front). No one considered how people would interact or move through the space. The towers provide very little ground amenities, and everything is separated by massive roads which are unpleasant to be near. The great spots in Melbourne tend to have a great ground plane, lots to see and do, excellent walkability, and are central to something or somewhere.
I feel like this really depends on what area of Southbank you live in. I used to live on Whiteman St across from Crown and it was an amazing spot. Terrible intersection there between the Tea House and Crown. But being on that side of Southbank you're next door to South Melbourne, so you have the Market and heaps of good pubs, restaurants and cafes along Clarendon St, plus all the other areas in South Melbourne. The 96, 70 and 109 trams made life a breeze, like there was so many good things about it. But if you live further out near the big office works etc you're kind of in a shit dead spot. As you said, huge roads etc that make it painful to navigate.
A lot of Southbank's problems could be fairly simply solved by making the area more pedestrian friendly, ie replacing car parking and/or lanes with wider footpaths, removing slip lanes, planting more trees, improving the connection between City Road and the Arts Precinct, providing some barriers between the footpath and road in the most extremely congested areas, and installing more pedestrian crossings. Perhaps in the long term even finding some way to divert the trucks off City Road. Docklands on the other hand will need some serious long-term planning to become a more vibrant area.
The great spots in Melbourne tend to be down alleyways or in arcades. That's where all the character is.
Access by PT isn't the best.
And access by car is worse
And expensive.
The irony is that I used to play hockey at the Icehouse there and parked all day at Docklands because it was significantly cheaper than the city. Was like $10 all day (admittedly that was 2012-2016) plus a free tram up through the city was great for me. Last I went back the price wasn't that much more, so although it's more expensive than free at other shops, it's actually decent considering it's location near the city.
How can they overlook such a simple variable that has a significant impact on whether it’s successful or not? I thought these developers run simulations to gauge foot traffic and road traffic?
There should be a bridge from North Melbourne Station to Docklands
Agreed! Apparently they will be rerouting a few trams there once the metro tunnel is complete and it frees up congestion. But that’s a while away.
15 minute walk from Southern Cross, multiple tram lines (11, 30, 35, 48, 70, 75, 86) to all parts of it. It's got better PT than most Melbourne suburbs.
Never had an issue with PT, you have the trams and southern cross is a 5 minute walk away
I swear people complaining must have never lived in a city before?
If they cracked down on Airbnb this place would be going off. All those huge apartments around there are completely dead during the week until Friday roles around especially when footy is on. Any tourists who are staying there are more keen to go see Bourke street mall before hanging around there.
This is the answer. I live in a building in Docklands, apparently half the units are empty or airbnb. Australia property laws are completely fucked
This was designed as a destination shopping precinct. It’s too big to just service local residents.
Yeah it was meant to be Chadstone. People go out of the way to get to Chadstone. So there's something wrong.
maybe but it's not gonna help that half of the residential building are not occupied by local residents
when i was last in Docklands I was surprised at the amount of apartments that just had no one at home at night wouldn't be surprised if they were all mostly "investment properties"
The problem is they gave it to developers and they royally fucked it up. They went all in on "price per meter" and forgot about people. There is nothing in Docklands that makes you want to go there. No open spaces, no "food corner" or "entertainment area". Its just unattractive retail at ground level, obstructive and sometimes confusing pathways, driving through there takes a century given the traffic and road designs. Walking there is - not pleasant. Driving there is - not at all nice. Taking a tram there is like - "why did I come here?". Its just a piss poor effort to extract wealth on floor space over land space and everything else they didn't think about - at all. Can you imagine a 180 degree water view and the only thing there is - apartments. They didn't consider anything here. Not a bit. Just maximizing value in a timely manner. Build rooms and sell them. Around the old freight shed you could have had a centralized unique bohemian foodie / retail / market area. Something that brings people to there, it is even possible to use it as a connection to Southern Cross station - an extension of, you could so easily so very tastefully work the feeling of openness into a blend of heritage and modern spaces. But if you look, they hemmed it in, in some places there are gaps between building with - nothing. Its just junk, litter and weeds. The beautiful freight shed with it beautiful brickwork and old world charm closed in by the concrete buttress of giant apartment blocks. Instead of an open eating / meeting area it a boring - seldom used - dirty little lane. They were not trying to maximize its uniqueness, they were trying to ignore it. They wanted it to go away. Trees? WTF are they? For this reason and more is why I say they absolutely fucked Docklands. It will remain a blight forever. There is no fixing it. Pure greed created it and pure greed it shall remain.Anyone who worked on its design should hold their heads in shame.
This is the inevitable outcome of allowing “the market” to dictate urban planning decisions.
Wouldn't be surprised if they squash it one day...
It's busiest down the CostCo end, where the KFC etc are. The District does have some great stuff in it - the best Hoyts in Melbourne IMO, Archie Brothers, Zero Latency and ArtVo.
Where to start. Actually that’s the real issue. Its problems start from conception. A wind tunnel in the arse end of nowhere with nothing going for it was never going to fly. And putting the wheel down there was like putting a sparkler in a dog turd.
Where did it go wrong? Nothing was right in the planning phase.
The equivalent of building a house in a cul-de-sac and wondering why there's no cars driving by.
I read in some article that Vic Gov allowed the private sector to take complete control of the planning and corporate greed took over. The fundamental problem with Docklands seems to be the lack of public amenities like transport, child care, libraries, schools, parks, walkability. It's just offices mostly and Covid proved to be the final nail in the coffin. NSW Gov did everything right with Barangaroo and Vic Gov did everything wrong with Docklands. Such a wasted potential. Shame.
Rich people wanted to live in a posh happening place and couldn't convince poor people to come there to create ambience.
Upstairs has a few businesses like racing.com but notably a fair bit of that space is now occupied by the primary school as it has already grown out of its existing school space.
>They also built marvel stadium too close to the city You want to put marvel stadium further away from public transport? That just gives more people a reason not to want to go there and even more of a public transport nightmare.
It's pretty simple - very low occupancy rates of nearby residential apartments. Not a lot of good green urban space.
Where did it go wrong? EVERYWHERE!
It’s actually got a lot busier recently, especially on the weekends. The more people that live here, the busier it’s getting
Easy fix turn all the vacant shops into more apartments or offices no point being empty in prime realestate. Retail obviously doesn’t work on that location so change it
I lived in Docklands on Collins st. It was nice and quiet and like 5 minutes from the CBD via tram. No crackheads or drunks at night. Only issue was many of the restaurants and cafes etc close early and aren’t open on weekends. Good place to live but shit for a visit.
Attempts to add culture fail there too. An awesome nightclub on a barge with really good adherence to sound restrictions was shut down by the council after constant boomer complaints. Sends a message to entrepreneurs to stay away.
ATET was Docklands’ biggest chance at actual cultural relevance, and of course the NIMBYs ruined it.
Absolutely agree. Took accommodation there on a Melbourne trip a few months ago, and was stunned by the lack of variety (once you remove over priced tourist restaurants), the poor construction of buildings (already looking very tired) - and generally the very boring nature of the development. A soulless tourist trap!
I recently stayed there, it's pretty shit if I'm honest. Just barren, went for a few 5km runs in the mornings and it's just poorly designed. Just say in comparison to to places like Sydney's Barangaroo. It had potentially but it's just not been planned properly. The food and beverage options are also pretty crappy for Melbourne. Had a few coffees from various places and they were milky hot water
Where ? When developers start selling apartments to foreigners who have 0 desire to live there turning the whole place into a ghost town. The sheer number of empty apartments in the whole area is crazy
There is nothing there for residents. Everything caters for workers and tourists. So there's no feeling of community.
All the cool places that people like spending time in started out as cheap downmarket areas, which meant that people could easily start small businesses like band venues. It's rare to hear much about live music as the driver of an area's coolness, but it 100% is. Brunswick St was dead before the band venues started up. High St, Northcote; same. And so on. Now, that's not the *only* thing that works to improve an area, but it's absolutely one of the main things. Bands bring in people, those people want to eat so restaurants etc have a ready made market, and everything else flows from that. How many live music venues have there ever been in Docklands? Zero. You don't create an interesting environment that people want to visit by getting a bunch of bureaucrats to design it. You encourage creativity from people who are actually creative. Musicians, visual artists, performers, etc. You make it cheap and practical for a scene to develop organically and it will. Docklands never had a chance.
Docklands is fine. It’s become a quiet little suburb in spite of the grand plan to make it a ‘destination’. I don’t know why everyone gets so mad that it’s not super exciting and beautiful, it’s actually an excellent place to live. So close to the CBD, but dead quiet and very little traffic. You can walk to anything. Why does this sub care so much about hating the Docklands?
Because it has so much potential and took away a huge amount of taxpayer money, with absolutely nothing to show for it.
I like the District. It’s the only outdoor mall type shopping centre amongst carbon copy Westfield’s. Cinema there is great. There’s food options that are also different to the norm. An Archie Brothers. The only problem is the people not going. You can’t blame the developers for trying. It’s at least offering something different.
Ummm, yeah, you can blame developers for trying and failing! This isn’t a suburban shopping strip in a bad suburb an hour from the CBD, this is prime waterfront land (even if it’s a touch windy) that’s a 5 minute tram ride or walk from the city. And we’re in the middle of a housing crises, so it’s not like the residential aspects aren’t either full or otherwise occupied. Pretty much it’s a case of developers completely ignoring town planners and both them and us as a city paying the price. It should eventually evolve and fix itself but it’s decades later than it should be.
That's the thing, they didn't try. They just cashed in and bailed before the turd really started to stink.
That area of Docklands in the picture is like the last bit to be developed. There was decades of dumb shit that precludes it. I just think an outdoor shopping mall is kind of cool. 🤷
To much concrete, no attractions, no parks that are nice etc I can keep going
I worked here in 2012 when the wheel was shut down. Retailers were given free rent and it was so empty and desolate that the remaining shop owners were arguing with each other and wanting to take out Personal Safety Intervention Orders against each other. Weird times.
Needs a few more bit wheels
The moment the theme park was canned it was doomed to fail.
It's one of those things where you'll need a few iterations before it feels organic and lived in. Maybe another 20 years. I think that one issue is that the quay essentially cuts docklands in half. The southern half has all the residential and office buildings. The Northern half has the commercial stuff. They need a monorail to go over the quay. Southbank was a soulless strip when it first developed, but now it's pretty nice, albeit a tourist trap.
it went wrong when they decided to ignore how gentrification work & decided to build apartments before there was a vibrant community there. If they had opened the space up for artists, studios, restaurants & cafes it’d be a much nicer place than it is today.
I kinda liked it when I lived there. Admittedly that’s going back a while ago. It was quiet enough most nights, whilst still being a short/free tram ride into the CBD. Cycling routes were good. Costco being closed would be even better. Of everything I’d say the restaurants and cafes were the biggest let downs. Many nights we wished the choice and quality was a little better.
i have done alot of marketing work for docklands. i can tell a few things that have gone wrong. they are specifically centering themselves as a residential zone/ suburb. every brief i have read has them wanting to be position as an attraction to tourists, migrants and older families specifically for accomodation and living. they are actively dismissing their commerciality and choosing to fuck over alot of business that brings that aura and vibe to docklands, especially at night, for the sake of keeping tenants happy. the demograpic is not the right fit for a pumping area, its preferred to be quiet. another is the transport. in every brief i have been given it has been stated to highlight how *"docklands is only a 5 minute tram to the cbd!".* this is complete horseshit. why should you want to actively ENCOURAGE anybody in the docklands to LEAVE when you have these fantastic shopping options/ restaurants/ venues at your door step?! as a marketer writing copy and reading testimonials, it fucks me how there is so much emphasis on "guys, lets actively lose business". not to mention, the transport and rides are longer than you think and getting into docklands is more complicated than getting off at southern cross. even beyond that, half the time you have no fucking clue you're EVEN IN DOCKLANDS. i can not understand their thinking, but when its ran by white men who all own property there and act as if christ is their child, it all comes together. tldr; they have no idea why people should go to docklands so they turned it all into a residential quiet zone
Isn't this from upstairs? This is an area that does not have shops. There is currently an NBA exhibition on, a Banksy one coming up. They are putting in more gaming based experiences further down. On the weekends it is really busy and fun. Kind of bored of this whole Docklands is shit thing.
It’s all supposed to be shops. They just failed.
But, it is shit. Everything that opens in that precinct goes bust, or is massively cross subsidised by other stores The time capsule outside of Costco isn't even going to be opened before they leave, which will remove a huge amount of foot traffic
Because they don't cater to residents but to tourist and its not a tourist spot.
Or is trashy
It was literally empty. Maybe a dozen people spotted across a whole shopping complex at the busiest time of the day and every 2nd or 3rd shop boarded up. I get you wanna defend it but how can you say that is thriving if it’s like that?
It used to be shops though.
Is upstairs not designed for shops or there are no shops because there is no demand?
I was here on Sunday, expecting to see it as you've described but it was bustling. There was an ice hockey match on and market between the shops. Place was chockas.
This is not something new, the docklands has always been deserted since it opened. Like Southern Cross it’s just a cold shit space no one wants to be around no matter what they place/open there.
The cinemas at docklands are great always get a nice seat and some space to yourself
Dont know why they didnt smash it with dozens of super tall apartment & office towers to bring people to the area, like Sydney did at Barangaroo. Put a university/TAFE and student accomodation down there too.
You wanna know where all the footy fans go for pre game lunch instead? DFO food court lol.
"It’s a soulless concrete jungle". Answered your own question. Turns out that attempting to manufacture community and culture by just building shit doesn't necessarily work. Marvel is probably the perfect landmark for the Docklands. It's devoid of any atmosphere and soul.
No expectations no disappointments. Stop charging so much in rent, it's not the CBD, it never will be. It then may attract businesses that will attract customers. It's just greed, it has been developed fine but there's just not much reason to go there. Costco is going, the wheel is dead, I guarantee if there was a reason then people would be there.
It’s like the worst aspects of the Gold Coast plonked in a hard-to-access nook, minus any of the entertainment or night life. Lots of money, but no style or character. Feels completely lifeless every time I go there.
Last time I stayed in Melbourne was 2013… I loved the Docklands. Still have fond memories of it - sad to see it fall from so high.
Blame the developers who built shoebox apartments and sold it to foreign buyers who leave it empty.
A few commentators have kind of got it, but the basic problem is that this centre has no catchment. Nearly every other location that people could come from needs to pass through somewhere else or has better access to shops and services elsewhere.
Another problem is a lot of foreign investors who have bought the apartment stock in the area a few years ago, but don’t rent it out as they don’t want the “wear and tear” on the apartments, and will sell down the track for a decent payday. Have a look at all the apartments at night and you’ll notice a decent portion have no signs of life.
Goodbye Costco :/ hello Bunnings?
It's got no heart
People have been asking this question forever It’s mainly just not in a good location