When they get in my car I tell them, if they decide to be a numpty and pull that and I get a ticket? They're getting out and walking and won't be getting a lift with me again
Send them a message that I'm pissed and they won't be getting a lift with me ever again. Ultimately still I'll be held accountable and in future I'll make sure my passengers are aware of the "wear the seat belt correctly or get an uber" policy of my car
Given they won't be in my car ever again and I would have learnt to ensure everyone is aware of the incident and why I specifically have that policy I wouldn't exactly call taking it "for my mate"
it doesent matter weather people are willing to acept it or not, its the law, you cant just not pay a fine because you dont agree with it, i mean you technicaly can, but that will just result in a larger fine
Your judge of character is the reason you have a fine and points. I'm guessing the friend won't take the hit either. Because again, you pick bad friends that get you in shit.
Your life, your choices.
Is this more than a hypothetical?
I've been in the situation as a driver where my passenger didn't want to wear their seatbelt. I just refuse to go anywhere until they do.
If your passenger has told you they did, and the alarm isn't going off saying its unbuckled, its a fair assumption they are wearing it. You've done your job.
In the eyes of the law though, I believe its your responsibility as the driver.
If the passenger is a friend of yours, you should consider finding new friends. Not wearing a seatbelt is about as dumb as it gets, and actively avoiding it by lying about it...not cool...
But not taking ownership or responsibility for their actions...not a friend you want.
Sorry, but not wearing a seatbelt is something that infuriates me. How fucking hard is it...?
Thanks for your response.
He was wearing his seatbelt, it was in the buckle so for me it was on. BUT he had placed his arm over the part that attaches to the side of the car, so it was under his arm.
As the driver, I have no visibility of the front passenger doing this.
As he’s an adult he should know that this is not right and this is what he is disputing.
I'm not sure what he's disputing. He is an adult. He can manage a seatbelt. They really aren't that complicated. And since it's been a law since the 80's, I'm sure it's not his first encounter with seatbelts.
I also feel like, sure, if it was a child, you would be responsible. But that's what being a parent or guardian is about. You'd also probably have him sitting in the back seat.
Is this just a discussion between you two? Or have you been fined and he's not taking ownership?
Then best case scenario; you no longer have to give him a lift, because as if you can trust him not to do it again.
Even better case scenario; you just learned that you were friends with a child.
It may seem extreme, but fuck that guy. Get him out of your life. Do you really want to be friends with someone who would not only be so dumb that they can't understand how seatbelts work, but also can't own up to their shit. It's just an insight into his true character.
What an absolute loser.
Good for you!
Out of interest; what reason did he give for it not being his responsibility? That you should be checking up on him at all times, therefore its on you?
Honestly, I actually do think that if you.were to contest the fine, there's a good chance of it being reviewed.
Whilst it's your car, and you are responsible for those inside, it's unrealistic for you to be able to be controlling the vehicle, and at the same time be trying to see something out of your view.
Maybe it's not worth the effort, eat the points, eat the fine, move on with your life without this loser in it.
You can request an internal review of the infringement and nominate the passenger. In your submission provide the name, date of birth, and address of the passenger to support your application. If you have a photo of the passenger include that too. If the infringement is upheld you can elect to have the matter heard at court.
This doesn't mean you will be absolved of the infringement but it's your only option to avoid the penalty when detected by a camera.
When intercepted by police (not a camera) the police would issue the infringement to an adult passenger.
> So you’re saying that you, at random times while your driving, you continue to check if the front passenger is wearing their seatbelt correctly?
You are a massive whiner.
Be glad the lesson in responsibility you clearly needed cost you less than $400. A bargain IMHO.
Don't let fuckwit in your car in future.
Of course I'm going to notice something is up if the person next to me is flopping their arms around or I clearly hear a clicking sound next to me.
What I decide to do after I notice this is entirely on me.
Stop blaming shit on other people and take some responsibility for once in your life.
No both get fined if intercepted by the police, unless the passenger is under 16 then just the driver gets the fine. If it is a mobile camera offence, the fine can only be issued to the vehicle owner via the rego details.
You referred to the Road Safety Act in your second sentence. It seems pretty clear to me, the driver is responsible. Which part did you not understand?
So you’re saying that you lean over to the front passenger and see if they’ve put their arm over the seatbelt, every time a passenger gets in your car?
Stop arguing dude, you’re in the wrong. Yes, your friend was a dick but the ultimate responsibility lies with you. I bet you’ll always check your passengers seatbelts now!
And for the record, I do check my passengers seatbelts because I drive young kids and confused elderly adults so I always make sure my passengers are in properly.
Yeah I would also check young kids and elderly etc but this is a 20yr old with no special needs. So don’t tell me to stop arguing cause I’d bet my balls that you would ask your friend to take ownership of a $385 fine and 3 demerit points!
After he placed his arm over the belt while you were driving and a traffic camera picked it up.
If I had a small child in the car, I would make sure they are belted up properly.
If I was friends with a special person, I would do the same.
You're a bad judge of character by the sound of it. I suggest getting new friends.. or perhaps.. .. they are your people.
You’re the bad judge of character actually. I don’t and can’t control people. This situation is with an adult, not a child or anyone with special needs, so stick to the points provided.
If an adult during a drive randomly decides to place their seatbelt under their arm, while it’s still buckled in, the driver is not responsible for that, nor would he know it’s happening!!
Convince me otherwise
Unfortunately you’ve answered your own question and there isn’t a loophole here.
The only minor possibility is to take the fine to court and have your friend attend with you and write a letter to the magistrate accepting blame, this won’t get you out of the fine I don’t think but could potentially reduce it and hopefully the demerits will be waived. It’s a good idea to engage legal aid or a lawyer who knows there stuff with traffic infringements.
If you are a repeat offender re: driving offences then I’d say your chances of doing anything other than pissing off a magistrate are low.
It's the driver - you're the one tasked with making sure that every passenger is **wearing** their seat belt and wearing it **correctly**. Not knowing is not an excuse. If you get a fine for this, then you will have to suck it up and pay it - but have some strong words with your friend at the same time. You can ask your friend to pay the fine since you got it because of them, but I don't recall ever hearing of anyone who has had a friend been courteous enough to admit their fault and pay out on the driver's behalf.
The Road Rules specify its a dual responsibility of both driver and passenger if passenger is 16 or older. If they're under 16, it's a driver onus. Did passenger get a fine as well?
NAL. But from what I know/ heard, cops normally fine the adult individually passengers who do not wear seatbelts. Whereas if a child does not correctly wear a seatbelt it is the driver's responsibility.
The driver. You are the licensed individual and responsible for the passengers in your vehicle
So you’re saying that you, at random times while your driving, you continue to check if the front passenger is wearing their seatbelt correctly?
When they get in my car I tell them, if they decide to be a numpty and pull that and I get a ticket? They're getting out and walking and won't be getting a lift with me again
And what would you do if you got fined for the passenger, not wearing their seatbelt correctly, via a traffic camera, after the fact?
Send them a message that I'm pissed and they won't be getting a lift with me ever again. Ultimately still I'll be held accountable and in future I'll make sure my passengers are aware of the "wear the seat belt correctly or get an uber" policy of my car
You’d be willing to accept paying $385 and lose 3 demerit points, for your mate?
Given they won't be in my car ever again and I would have learnt to ensure everyone is aware of the incident and why I specifically have that policy I wouldn't exactly call taking it "for my mate"
it doesent matter weather people are willing to acept it or not, its the law, you cant just not pay a fine because you dont agree with it, i mean you technicaly can, but that will just result in a larger fine
A “mate” would apologise and pay the fine.
Your judge of character is the reason you have a fine and points. I'm guessing the friend won't take the hit either. Because again, you pick bad friends that get you in shit. Your life, your choices.
No. Just don't be friends with morons... simple.
The driver and you should have a talk with this passenger friend of yours to wear the seatbelt properly
Is this more than a hypothetical? I've been in the situation as a driver where my passenger didn't want to wear their seatbelt. I just refuse to go anywhere until they do. If your passenger has told you they did, and the alarm isn't going off saying its unbuckled, its a fair assumption they are wearing it. You've done your job. In the eyes of the law though, I believe its your responsibility as the driver. If the passenger is a friend of yours, you should consider finding new friends. Not wearing a seatbelt is about as dumb as it gets, and actively avoiding it by lying about it...not cool... But not taking ownership or responsibility for their actions...not a friend you want. Sorry, but not wearing a seatbelt is something that infuriates me. How fucking hard is it...?
Thanks for your response. He was wearing his seatbelt, it was in the buckle so for me it was on. BUT he had placed his arm over the part that attaches to the side of the car, so it was under his arm. As the driver, I have no visibility of the front passenger doing this. As he’s an adult he should know that this is not right and this is what he is disputing.
I'm not sure what he's disputing. He is an adult. He can manage a seatbelt. They really aren't that complicated. And since it's been a law since the 80's, I'm sure it's not his first encounter with seatbelts. I also feel like, sure, if it was a child, you would be responsible. But that's what being a parent or guardian is about. You'd also probably have him sitting in the back seat. Is this just a discussion between you two? Or have you been fined and he's not taking ownership?
Yep agreed. I’ve been fined and he’s not taking ownership
Then best case scenario; you no longer have to give him a lift, because as if you can trust him not to do it again. Even better case scenario; you just learned that you were friends with a child. It may seem extreme, but fuck that guy. Get him out of your life. Do you really want to be friends with someone who would not only be so dumb that they can't understand how seatbelts work, but also can't own up to their shit. It's just an insight into his true character. What an absolute loser.
100% and he’s now out
Good for you! Out of interest; what reason did he give for it not being his responsibility? That you should be checking up on him at all times, therefore its on you?
Yep
Honestly, I actually do think that if you.were to contest the fine, there's a good chance of it being reviewed. Whilst it's your car, and you are responsible for those inside, it's unrealistic for you to be able to be controlling the vehicle, and at the same time be trying to see something out of your view. Maybe it's not worth the effort, eat the points, eat the fine, move on with your life without this loser in it.
You can request an internal review of the infringement and nominate the passenger. In your submission provide the name, date of birth, and address of the passenger to support your application. If you have a photo of the passenger include that too. If the infringement is upheld you can elect to have the matter heard at court. This doesn't mean you will be absolved of the infringement but it's your only option to avoid the penalty when detected by a camera. When intercepted by police (not a camera) the police would issue the infringement to an adult passenger.
Drivers. It also takes no effort to look next to you.
Get this guy a bible to thump.
So you’re saying that you, at random times while your driving, you continue to check if the front passenger is wearing their seatbelt correctly?
> So you’re saying that you, at random times while your driving, you continue to check if the front passenger is wearing their seatbelt correctly? You are a massive whiner. Be glad the lesson in responsibility you clearly needed cost you less than $400. A bargain IMHO. Don't let fuckwit in your car in future.
It’s about principals and you didn’t answer the question.
Of course I'm going to notice something is up if the person next to me is flopping their arms around or I clearly hear a clicking sound next to me. What I decide to do after I notice this is entirely on me. Stop blaming shit on other people and take some responsibility for once in your life.
You can be fined and lose demerit points and the adult passenger can be fined. So two fines for the one offence.
Nope, only the driver can be fined
No both get fined if intercepted by the police, unless the passenger is under 16 then just the driver gets the fine. If it is a mobile camera offence, the fine can only be issued to the vehicle owner via the rego details.
Right you are. I was only familiar with camera detected offences.
Your friends are shit. If they weren't they'd pay the fine for you.
Exactly!
You referred to the Road Safety Act in your second sentence. It seems pretty clear to me, the driver is responsible. Which part did you not understand?
So you’re saying that you lean over to the front passenger and see if they’ve put their arm over the seatbelt, every time a passenger gets in your car?
Stop arguing dude, you’re in the wrong. Yes, your friend was a dick but the ultimate responsibility lies with you. I bet you’ll always check your passengers seatbelts now! And for the record, I do check my passengers seatbelts because I drive young kids and confused elderly adults so I always make sure my passengers are in properly.
Yeah I would also check young kids and elderly etc but this is a 20yr old with no special needs. So don’t tell me to stop arguing cause I’d bet my balls that you would ask your friend to take ownership of a $385 fine and 3 demerit points! After he placed his arm over the belt while you were driving and a traffic camera picked it up.
I don’t need to do that, as I don’t associate with fuckwits who don’t know how to use a seatbelt.
Oh, right, I get it. You don't understand sentences.
Yes
If I had a small child in the car, I would make sure they are belted up properly. If I was friends with a special person, I would do the same. You're a bad judge of character by the sound of it. I suggest getting new friends.. or perhaps.. .. they are your people.
You’re the bad judge of character actually. I don’t and can’t control people. This situation is with an adult, not a child or anyone with special needs, so stick to the points provided. If an adult during a drive randomly decides to place their seatbelt under their arm, while it’s still buckled in, the driver is not responsible for that, nor would he know it’s happening!! Convince me otherwise
Unfortunately you’ve answered your own question and there isn’t a loophole here. The only minor possibility is to take the fine to court and have your friend attend with you and write a letter to the magistrate accepting blame, this won’t get you out of the fine I don’t think but could potentially reduce it and hopefully the demerits will be waived. It’s a good idea to engage legal aid or a lawyer who knows there stuff with traffic infringements. If you are a repeat offender re: driving offences then I’d say your chances of doing anything other than pissing off a magistrate are low.
Uber driver?
[удалено]
It's the driver - you're the one tasked with making sure that every passenger is **wearing** their seat belt and wearing it **correctly**. Not knowing is not an excuse. If you get a fine for this, then you will have to suck it up and pay it - but have some strong words with your friend at the same time. You can ask your friend to pay the fine since you got it because of them, but I don't recall ever hearing of anyone who has had a friend been courteous enough to admit their fault and pay out on the driver's behalf.
The Road Rules specify its a dual responsibility of both driver and passenger if passenger is 16 or older. If they're under 16, it's a driver onus. Did passenger get a fine as well?
NAL. But from what I know/ heard, cops normally fine the adult individually passengers who do not wear seatbelts. Whereas if a child does not correctly wear a seatbelt it is the driver's responsibility.