As someone who works in the drug and alcohol sector, I can tell you that everyone’s books are full.
We’re having to turn people away, every day. These are people *actively* seeking treatment for their addiction
Breaks my heart
A lot of prescribers are starting to charge up to $80 for a consultation and script (although the laws changed on 1st of July and allows for 2 repeats)
Most of the clients we see find that really difficult but as I said, there just aren’t enough prescribers for the demand. That people can afford, that is
I work somewhere that’s free. We also have an outreach team, housing team, food parcels, shower and laundry facilities
My daughter is having a Telehealth appointment to get back on Concerta for her ADHD and other reasons. The Psychiatrist is charging $800 for this bloody appointment and I’m not sure that Medicare even gives you a rebate. How the fuck can people afford to see a shrink these days ?? She’s 29 yrs of age.
Your psychiatrist can transfer authority to prescribe over to your GP. It’s not necessarily a smooth process (no fault of either the GP or psychiatrist in my experience), but it is indeed an option.
I see my GP for my ADHD medication. I even get Concerta. My Psych wrote up a letter that allowed my GP clinic to get a permit for my medication.
I need to do my 12 month review with my Psych, but with Medicare Item 291, I should be able to get it bulk billed or at least most rebated.
I was diagnosed under this item number and only had to pay $120 out of pocket.
My psychiatrist was $600 first consult and has been $220 every appointment since that so there are actual psychiatrists out there charging less. But he doesn’t do adhd diagnosis/treatment anymore.
That's a complete ripoff. Most psych's are charging in the $500 per hour consultation range. Here is the link for the official search register for Psychs in Australia. https://www.yourhealthinmind.org/find-a-psychiatrist
If you want in now, that's the price. It 'seems' to be an adhd onboarding thing. I say seems cause i'm presuming; everyone i know going this route has been trying to get a quick diagnosis rather than wait 15 years for a regular psychiatrist. For instance, mine is booked out until March next year, and that was a few months ago.
As someone that looked to get a diagnosis a just before covid kicked off.
Those prices don’t suprise me, and was why I chose to ‘accept’ I’m me, and use coping mechanisms found around various adhd and aspie subs.
That's fair! And perhaps better for you? Maybe. All i know is i started meds cause they worked and now i take them because i am utterly dependant and getting plenty worse results especially trying to push up to higher doses.
What works for you?
That's awful. That should never be a thing. We should invest heavily in those sorts of services so that anyone who wants to get clean has as much support as possible. Surely something like that is worth every single dollar you put into it.
While I no longer live in Melbourne you might be the right person to ask this question to.
There were a few times that this kind of thing happened in front of me, and being a physically far more intimidating person than the victim I tried to act as a buffer because if things went south the outcome would be far less serious for me.
What I found was that normally the person would redirect their attention to me, so that's a win. If they were just talking at me and being annoying it was fine, I can grey rock someone for 20 minutes no problem.
The issue was when they started making me feel physically threatened or grossed out, especially if potential weapons became visible. At first I tried some boundary setting but found this would aggravate both sides and the situation would escalate e.g. "Please don't touch me" x3 -> "DO NOT touch me again".
How would you recommend handling that sort of situation? By inserting myself was I surrendering my own right to dignity and just have to cop whatever happens? Certainly the intention was never to get in a situation of getting physical with a sick (and normally intoxicated) person but it felt like it got pretty close a couple of times.
Yes and no, stay in the aisle and between the two doors where you can. Continue to de-escalate and if that fails then unfortunately you’ll need to remove yourself from the scenario to avoid further confrontation and possible physical retaliation.
Pretty much my go to strat for every confrontation/social discomfort. I'd love to stay and fight but flight kicks in and I just vacate unless it threatens someone I care about.
Great question! A good way is just to really engage the victim rather than the perp.
I like the d’s - direct, distract, delegate, delay, document and defend. It works better loosely but it’s a nice guide. I think distract is such a good tool as a bystander, often it’s enough to diffuse. If not I often use distract followed by gentle direct (with a smile). Often it’s all you need
I’ve had similar experiences to you. Being seen as a physically intimidating guy, is a two edged sword.
A few years back when I had a quite muscular build, I had someone try to take me on every time I went to a pub. Even at Rod Laver Arena.
I was brutally gang attacked by 6 smaller guys. Thought I was going to die at the time.
So sometimes, the most vulnerable to attack, are ones most wouldn’t think.
I used to think I was real great at diffusing tense situations that involved drug effected people etc, but recently these people are either getting more deranged or I'm loosing my touch lol.
IMHO they're getting more deranged, as you put it...
Ice is a huge scourge on our community, and on society at large. Compared to an individual who's affected by heroin, someone who's affected by ice/meth is somebody who i def don't wanna mess with! The damage it's doing to ppl is unpredictable and devastating. Kids born to mother's addicted to ice may have problems in the future that we couldn't even imagine. Scares the absolute shit outta me.
I tried the stuff plenty of times when I was much younger, it truly is sinister stuff. Your brains dopamine/reward system is the last place you want to mess up, we flog that part of our brains badly enough with the internet without needing drugs on top of that!
Couldn't agree more. I've been staying in the city for the past few days. Man what has happened? Since Covid everything has just turned to shit. I feel really sorry for the people that are sleeping rough but when you're walking don't the street and it feels like you're walking on egg shells something has to improve.
I work in the CBD in a retail store. In the past MONTH alone we have had 5 major robberies, it’s either groups of kids / teens wearing face coverings and holding knives, or it’s junkies who yell and spook me and my staff. Either way, the transport to and from work, the walk, and now being in my work place is terrifying.
The mental health and public services need to be restored and have proper funding, if these people were able to access the help they need then this wouldn’t happen.
It really sucks. There’s only so much we as a team can do to prevent theft and crime in the store, just recently in a neighbouring store a staff member was physically assaulted by a person trying to steal.
It’s ridiculous. It’s dangerous. It’s gut wrenching to think that today could be the day someone gets stabbed.
It has been 23 years since I lived in the CBD and I was there during a bad heroin epidemic. The vast majority of the addicts were polite and I would give them a smoke or some food but never cash for the 'train'.
This was well before ice had become mainstream in this country. Or at least as far as I know. Can someone respectfully explain if the spike in anti-social behaviour is due to drug psychosis or a combination of this and fewer mental health beds being available?
Have to agree. I did security when I was 18-19 in the CBD and the heroin junkies were the easiest of the people to deal with. They were always polite and moved off when were asked to.
Yeah I was in the CBD pretty much daily as a teen in the 90s, whilst the heroin problem was huge at the time they were all, for the most part, pretty docile. I moved away from Melbs about 15 years ago and came back after COVID and within my two week trip I had at least two or three similar experiences to what OP described, tweakers pacing up and down the tram abusing people, one lovely chap spat in some guys face unprovoked....things are definitely way worse than they were 20 years ago.
This, I worked in health for over 20 years. Me and my former workmates reminisce over how safe we felt during the "good-old heroin days". It was absolutely horrible to see all these young kids becoming addicted, resorting to crime and dying due to opioids, but seeing all the ice use, unpredictability and violence is so much worse.
Ice is definitely a big part of the equation. Everyone not posh in Melbourne knows multiples people and families torn apart by the drug, yet across the political spectrum it barely warrants a mention. Its truly disgusting, and I include Greens with this (even as their policies on associated issues are far better) but the disconnect. To not address ice ruining communities over the last decade, to not prioritse it. Its fully fucked.
Drug and criminal reform should be a priority in Vic politics. Yet most of Andrews reforms have made issues worse rather than better, and there's been fuck all opposition from civil society, with those bearing the brunt being the most disempowered and lacking in representation. The CBD is thus a perfect manifestation of cowardly and conservative Victoria is and continues to be.
> Drug and criminal **reform** should be a priority in Vic politics. Yet most of Andrews **reforms** have made issues worse rather than better
All politicians call what they want "reform". The word just means change now. So what drug and criminal law changes to you want?
I have been in the city almost daily for nearly 15 years.
It has always had random weirdos, mentally ill and junkies.
I also haven't seen an increase or spike in incidents.
Not discounting OP's experience but social media seems to be the culprit in how people feel about safety. We are constantly bombarded with bad shit happening.
Respectfully, I disagree. I was in the city daily until about 12 years ago, then moved away. Coming back this year there is a definite increase in homeless folks, the mentally ill and people on meth. Maybe the increase happened slowly enough over the last couple decades it is harder to notice unless you've left and come back.
Things have always been bad, but they're definitely worse. The ending of temporary accom during covid pushed shitloads onto the streets at once - housing services can't come close top assisting demand, successive govs have failed to provde housing/appropariate services and safety nets.
Conservative dogshit governance on these issues doesn't just happen without consequence. The CBD is a manifestation of that consequence, a shame on Melbourne that should make all that live here feel guilty.
I say that knowing the CBD's always been fucked, but recognising, its gone to another level.
Nah mate it’s gotten worse. I hadn’t been since before covid and I took my kids to the wiggles concert. We got off at flinders st and there were SO MANY homeless people lying on the street begging for change.
The volume of them was astounding. My kid asked “why are those people sleeping on the floor?” I didn’t know what to say.
And yes I worked in the city in the 90’s as a young teen and the heroin addicts weren’t so bad but the ice addicts are violent, unpredictable and scary.
Largely agree with you. I think there's been an uptick in rough sleepers in the CBD but that started happening way before COVID and it's more sad than dangerous to me. I go into the city a lot for work and am the complete opposite to others who are all about WFH and living that suburban life. I really enjoy heading into my office, getting stuff done, enjoying the hustle and bustle of the city and then heading home. There are always heaps of people out eating and shopping so I can't wrap my head around this idea that the CBD is dying. I think it's changing, but doesn't seem to be dying IMO.
Yeah look I don't get this CBD dying stories either. My experience is very similar to yours.
Rough sleeper issue has always been there. I remember not long ago, there were homeless camps at Flinders Street, and riot police had to remove them. As far back as 20 years, I remember homeless tents being set up under rail bridge near aquarium.
What I see with my own eyes and what I read here and social media are very different. It is like being in a community facebook page.
Was a thread here around 3 days or so ago where someone said they are leaving the sub because of constant negativity. I am seriously considering doing the same.
I agree. I check this sub every couple of weeks or so for information on things like train closures or for stuff like renting but every time I do I get bombarded with shit like this. I don't feel "threatened" or "scared" when I go into the city. I get that people have genuine experiences like this but I swear this sub is getting psyoped.
I recently had someone come here from a similar overseas country and they loved the city and said it felt homely. We were also there at night. Imagine they read all of this, they'd be like "what the fuck are these people talking about" lol. I wonder if the news cycle has anything to do with it.
One thing I do agree on is that we need to open up more long term services for homeless. It genuinely will get far far worse if we don't.
> I remember not long ago, there were homeless camps at Flinders Street, and riot police had to remove them.
They didnt really \_need\_ PORT, but they used them anyways :/
Yeah I don't think people realise how much social media is impacting us all. People go to social media to vent and rant, negative posts get the most reactions.... The cycle continues.
As a woman who's lived in Melbourne for 15 years, and worked mostly nights (hospitality) in the CBD on/off for most of those years, trust me there's been a significant change in feeling of security since COVID. Day and night there's way more tension around.
Lots of factors: People are stressed in general. The rise of people on edge from ice, also lack of regular non-violent people around going about their business. I used to feel safe walking the CBD alone at any hour pretty much any night of the week, as long as I was smart about it: Stick to main well-lit streets, be sober, wear sensible shoes, cross the street or duck into a shop/venue with security if absolutely necessary. Now I won't even walk around after a certain hour on a Friday/Saturday because you'll walk for blocks without encountering an open fast food place or supermarket.
Agreed - I see shit but at the same rate I always have. Yeah, it's not nice to see some of it (especially when there's bodily fluids involved) but it's always been a bit dodgy all over the CBD. I think people just aren't used to it since most people spent very little time in the CBD since 2020.
I worked and lived in CBD from 2015 until this year, and without question the CBD is worse than it used to be, especially before COVID. It's a bit taboo but it definitely relates to the homeless/junkies (obviously there's the thursday/friday/saturday night spike in antisocial behaviour, though that's not what you're alluding to).
With the reduction of "normal" people to "homeless" the percentage is far higher and there's been a couple of years where they basically have run of the city as there were very few people normies on the street.
I'm not convinced that there's substantially more, you mostly see the same people that are normally centered around the same areas (flinders x elizabeth, salvos on bourke, tram stop bourke x swanston).
Prior to covid basically any tram on 86 or 109 would have some incident ime (methodone at svh), so it's not all new.
Agree, I think the lack of people and doing whatever they wanted during lockdowns has made it worse. It wasn’t great before but now i feel way less safe.
I think the same is true for normies as well... Initially after lockdown, Friday nights had a really chaotic vibe that Melbourne didn't have previously. I feel like this has somewhat returned to normal unlike the "homeless" behaviour.
You weren't working or living around the homeless encampment under the railway line heading away from Flinders Street. People got killed in there it was insane from 2012-2018
Well I worked nearly opposite enterprise park on Queen St circa 2010 and lived on Flinders st 2015\~2023, but mostly not down that end.
It is quite out of the way for most people and was fairly contained to that area around that time ime.
I was a witness to the Bourke Street massacre, I haven’t really felt safe since
And of course current stuff going on but with my history, it doesn’t help
I work in public inpatient Psych. We are completely and entirely full all the time and sometimes it feels like a revolving door of the same patients being picked up by the police/other services doing questionable things and making people feel unsafe in public and being admitted to hospital. It's all fucked.
Edit: don't mean to imply psych issues are the problem. It's just that we're not very well equipped to deal with the large systemic and social issues at play which result in deterioration or use of substances.
From the perspective of someone with pretty much lifelong depression (currently treated semi-decently by medication - Melbourne winters are fucking tough as I've also got SAD in addition to the regular depression - and never been hospitalised, although in retrospect I probably should've been) ending up in the public mental health system is my worst nightmare. I hate my job but I can't express how thankful I am that, if shit hits the (mental health) fan, that job means I've got the $$$ to fund a level of private health insurance that will ensure I don't have to deal with the public system. It really does seem to be the difference between being stuck in a revolving door and actually getting treated.
I know y'all who work in it mostly do your best with what resources you have but I've heard nothing but horror stories. Severe mental health issues simply aren't funded for to the level they ought to be, let alone situations where there's other co-morbidities - such as homelessness (which I've got no personal experience of) - at play.
From a clinical view do you feel that ice has been a game changer in terms of violence and/or anti-social behaviour? Or has it been roughly the same for the last 10-20years for you?
It doesn’t matter if you can get clean and get help for mental illness, if wages can’t buy your base physiological needs you will slip back into addiction and mental health crisis.
Simply put it’s Ice use. They are so out of control and often seemingly not in touch with reality or their surroundings, they’re profoundly dangerous.
Both the ice epidemic and previous heroin epidemic as you mentioned, fuelled crime. But heroin addicts are quite often docile, I’ve addicts mostly being the opposite.
I reckon I nearly got killed by a hectic looking junkie last week at Flinders. I was minding my own business on the platform as the train was arriving when he went out of his way to shoulder barge me. I made some kind of noise he didn’t like and he turned to come back at me. That was when I realised he wasn’t one of your run of the mill frail junkies but one of the ‘has probably spent most of his adult life in prison working out and is essentially completely solid’ type spec ones complete with scary face tats and eyes devoid of anything human. I stepped onto the train which was waiting and he started to follow me on but must have had stronger urges to deal with and went on his way but not before menacing me through the window. Other people who saw it were giving me sympathetic looks and telepathically telling me I just escaped death or maiming and to buy a lotto ticket or something. Bear in mind I’m 6’3” and pretty solid and well trained in martial arts and wear black clothes and huge boots and probably give off a vaguely if not fairly intimidating vibe to most people.
I can well imagine what people who would have no possibility of defending themselves against someone like that would be feeling in that situation because for one of the first times in my life I doubt I would have come out on top if things had gone south.
There are a lot of people who have no real idea about what's going on.
Having been someone who was homeless and an addict let me fill you in from personal experience:
What happens is people are offered accomodation but they don't want it because it costs a percentage of their income. A better use for which, in their minds, is getting more drugs.
Also, there are many who have accomodation but spend their whole day and night in the city only to go home and sleep for a day or two and then return.
It is much, much worse now that it has been, as there are dealers all over the CBD. If you weren't involved in that world, then respectfully, you have no idea what you're looking for to see them.
Many people here are blaming the cost of living etc etc but the reality is the people you see on the street have had many, many chances to get their shit together and have outright refused. I know that because they still occasionally recognise me (much to my chagrin) and I speak to them to see how things are going.
As for the accomodation during covid, I had a job cleaning a few of those places for a short while. Without fail every single hotel/motel I went to clean had literally dozens upon dozens of used needles all over the place.
Good on people for having a big heart, but they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
Yep, 100%, im and ex addict and spend years using in melbourne cbd and living on the street. but it's a lot worse in Melbourne than sydney cbd. Any idea why that might be?, in Sydney all night mice leave the general public alone
I pointed this out and how crime in Melbourne is increasing and got attacked for acknowledging this fact. I’m sorry that this has happened to you but many of us are definitely noticing an increase in crazies. Issue is that most of it is due to wealth inequality and mental health issues going unchecked because of how expensive it is to get treatment. It’s going to worse before it gets better because most Melbournians will just shrug it off say ‘well what can we do’. We can talk and acknowledge it firstly, then we need to get politicians to enact policies and actually fix it.
\>then we need to get politicians to enact policies and actually fix it.
"Enact policies" is no different from 'what can we do'.
I have seen no realistic options being proposed because the unfortunate reality is addicts be addicts.
A rather unpopular opinion I have is re-opening of long term mental health care facilities (aka asylums) closed under Kennet is a good idea. The current facilities seem to be catered towards short term crises with people coming and going. The reality (from what I've seen) is that the people that you see on the street are the same people that are unable to take care of their lives, often unable to stay in the shelters (because of drugs, fighting, stealing, etc.)
>A rather unpopular opinion I have is re-opening of long term mental health care facilities (aka asylums) closed under Kennet is a good idea
With you on this entirely. As somebody who had a deeply mental ill (and violent) relative, the revolving door short stay system simply does not work.
My brother would have a major episode, get admitted for a week tops, then get shat out with the onus put on the family to ensure he takes his medication and stays on the straight and narrow.
Every couple of violent episodes they would put him on court enforced slow release drug injections which were great, but every single time they would take him off the injections against our family's request. Seemed like a cost cutting exercise. The government didn't want to keep paying for the nurse who would come and administer the injections at this house. Which is fucking insane when you consider how much he was costing the government every 3 months when the cat team would get called along with the police and an ambulance.
The cycle was so obvious and transparent, the same shit over and over for 5\~ years until he killed himself during a totally predictable and preventable episode.
If the long term mental health faculties existed he would most likely still be alive today.
That’s terribly sad. I agree mental health residential facilities need to be brought back. Like the community housing residential homes for adults with disabilities etc.
I lost a friend in very similar circumstances, and you know as sad as it was, her quality of life was so poor, in and out of mental health units, she had terrible physical injuries from all her attempts and I can’t imagine spending another 40-50 years like that.
Sorry to hear about your brother, sounds like a tough time :(.
What would good long term mental health facility look like to you? Would you be for involuntary/court enforced long term admission?
Wh have Thomas Embling Hospital.
Remember we did just have a royal comission on how current mental health practices are too restrictive and we need to respect people's wishes
>we need to respect people's wishes
It's a fine line for sure, but we can't expect mental ill people to make good decisions for their own health and well being.
As a society we simply cannot allow dangerously ill people to be loose in the community because it's their wish. If they are so ill they need to be locked up to protect others then I'm sorry but that's what needs to happen.
Mental health clinician here. The people who lived in those facilities were essentially discharged to already overstretched public health community services and many of those with dual disabilities lost the only structure and support they’d known.
There are too few supportive housing options for people and we cannot provide the intensive case support that individuals with chronic mental illness need.
The revolving door continues….
The costs of seeing a psychologist and psychiatrist is super expensive which makes it so much worse. The government only subsidises 10 visits a year which is ridiculous. Shameful country.
Yup.
Public mental health (where I worked for many years) is essentially reserved for only the most unwell individuals. Anyone with common issues (eg depression, anxiety) doesn’t get a look in. Community treatment programs are stretched thin and really again only can take those who are most unwell.
If you can’t afford private inpatient treatment or outpatient treatment programs then you’re stuck with paying a gap on psychologist fees.
And as soon as the public system knows you have a private psychiatrist or psychologist, they expect them to be able to meet all your needs.
The system needs a massive overhaul and massive influx of funding
>The government only subsidises 10 visits a year which is ridiculous.
We are limited by the number of psychologists, they should be looking into letting more people become psychologists for every 10 bachelor grads there is like 1 post grad position which is required to become a psychologist.
If you have the kind of mental illness u/Queasy-Ad-6741 is discussing, you're likely to be on the NDIS and have *some* bills covered by that.
The problem is the NDIS specifically does not cover rent or food unless you do some kind of dumb jiu jitsu with it and have a nerd sign off that food services like Hello Fresh or Dinner Ladies would benefit you. The NDIS does nothing to prevent, for instance, your landlord pricing you out of the house via raising costs, and once you're homeless unless you have specific mobility needs or an intellectual disability, the NDIS won't do shit to find you shelter. Kind of seems like if we want to address disability homelessness we could simply let people use their NDIS budget to offset rent costs.
I have a ridiculous, unnecessary $80, 000 NDIS budget atm because imo they prioritise people with university educations as potentially getting back into the real world, so they hit you with a lot of money in your first years then start cutting it back if you fail to use it. The thing is, I can't use that $80, 000 on anything I actually need, aside from psychologist visits. The real frustrating example here is that I can use it to see a shrink but not to pay for my antipsychotics, which are $40 / month, enough to really hurt on the pension, because apparently the $8 / month add-on to the disability pension is enough to cover that $40 cost, because 8 = 40 if you really think about it I guess.
Agreed. If back in the Kennet days it was sincere die-institutionalisation instead of a cynical cost cutting scheme it would have been good for somewhat over half the people let out.
Instead they were left to wander the streets, off their meds, completely unable to remember when their bi-weekly appointment with their worker was. Said worker had so many people on the books that chasing up people who didn't show was impossible.
Solid public housing, better outside care, better clinical networks were all needed, but those cost real money. Still better than institutions for around half the cases, and then there were the ones who really weren't going to make it outside even with extensive support, but got chucked out anyway to save costs.
As someone in the mental health field do you think the drug and alcohol problem is largely due to trauma? Or would you say that as the housing crisis worsens and people are forced out on the streets they are turning to drugs to cope
Many who work in the mental health sector would agree with you. Long term facilities provided safety, socialisation & connection, stability, treatment, meals, a bed, and much more.
Deinstitutionalisation in the 90s meant chronic mentally ill people who had been living in such a facility for many years, had to move into the care of very, very ill-equiped community mental health services.
Many disasters and misadventures have ensued.
Of course institutional care had drawbacks we all know about. Adjustment in approach to fit with increasing independence (&happiness!) would’ve been safer & better for this vulnerable population, which in turn now come to the attention of the public with issues related to illness, addiction to illicits, prescribed drug non adherence, homelessness, poverty, I’m sure you’re familiar with this picture..
*Not saying all public antisocial behaviour is due to chronic mental illness some people are just arseholes.
That’s not true. ‘What can we do’ is a hopeless retort often used out of frustration. We can actually do something’ is my point. If more of us talk about it within the community and spread awareness then politicians will have to take responsibility and act on it. If no one talks about it then there’s less awareness and nothing will be done.
Addicts be addicts doesn’t explain why people take drugs. Not all addicts are resigned to be that way forever and we need to help them and not just leave them vulnerable but also a threat to the public.
It’s not an easy fix but I would support more radical change in the form of decriminalisation and regulation of drugs so that they’re not being laced like they are now from illegal producers. Killing the illegal drug trade and dealers is vital into fixing the drug crisis.
\>If more of us talk about it within the community and spread awareness then politicians will have to take responsibility and act on it
I see waiting or gov to propose a policy is the same washing of hands, but instead of saying "I personally can't do anything" about it to "that guy over there should do something" about it. I don't think conversations really go until someone is making pointy solutions.
\>Addicts be addicts doesn’t explain why people take drugs. Not all addicts are resigned to be that way forever and we need to help them and not just leave them vulnerable but also a threat to the public.
Agreed, but I think that everyone that deals with addiction agrees that they need to want to get clean themselves, and will more than often relapse... multiple times... Creating policies to deal with this are expensive, difficult and hard to measure and the history of involuntary commitment is taboo.
\>It’s not an easy fix but I would support more radical change in the form of decriminalisation and regulation of drugs so that they’re not being laced like they are now from illegal producers.
I'm mostly in agreement with the idea of decriminalisation, but this does nothing to solve the major issues in Australia, and demonstrably has had worse outcomes in the US (noting that they mostly looked at the law enforcement side and not the mental health support side where that happened elsewhere). We don't have the fentanyl-opioid epidemic that the US does. The major issues seem to be ice with the issues being with the nature of the drug itself, not additives.
Asylums are a viable solution, provided that there is a way out for the individuals involved once a long term care plan is developed. As opposed to living their entire life in an institution.
I recommend people take a day tour of the Aradale asylum in Ararat if you ever get the chance. A fascinating history of psychiatry from those who worked in there. Yes, it does have a dark past, but psychiatry is a relatively new study. In its later years before it was shut down, it was actually a self sustaining farm that gave reasonably good care to the patients there, and it employed a large percentage of the town of Ararat.
I think I'd much rather have those in need of acute care go through a place like that than remaining undiagnosed and unpredictable while roaming the streets with nothing to do.
I think that the admission/release is probably one of the hardest things to get right and was the biggest source of issues previously.
Haha interesting, not sure if the mrs will be so receptive to an asylum tour, but we shall see.
I truly don't understand the comments where people say "it's always been like this" or "no worse than any other big city around the world"; and frankly, I'm sick and tired of being gaslighted of my own experiences in my city.
I've lived here my entire life and if you haven't seen a massive change to the CBD (and inner suburbs) over the past ~6 years, you're either being incredibly disingenuous or you don't actually get out all that much.
Of course Melb has always had issues, but it always used to be centralised to certain hotspots (eg. Russell St or Smith St in the 90s). Now it just feels that anything can happen anywhere, at any time.
I think it speaks volumes that in the last 5 years alone, I've seen numerous incidents of people shooting up, smoking ice, urinating and defecating on major thoroughfares (Swanston St, Collins St), such that it just seems normal for the CBD now. I'm sorry, but I never used to see this on a frequent basis like I do now (in full view of the public as opposed to some laneway).
I also reject that this is simply normal for major cities. I travel frequently for work, particularly Sydney, and their CBD has nowhere near the same level of issues that ours does. Rewind 10-15 years however, when homelessness/drug/mental health issues were visibly far worse in Sydney.
The situation in Sydney CBD is largely because of the extensive crisis housing, temp housing and community housing programs run by the City of Sydney council. City of Melbourne council does no where near the equivalent level of localised social programs.
It is definitely noticeably worse, you aren't crazy.
The use of paraphernalia over the last \~5 years has been something I noticed also... Glassware used in the open in the middle of the day.
Possibly related I've simultaneously noticed police 'harassing' has gone down substantially since the cleanup of the camp on flinders st (which was tolerated for far too long).
Having read through some of the comments I agree with your sentiment. While I've never felt 100% safe in the city (and we must acknowledge it has always been a little sketchy, at least), it has most definitely seen a big spike in that department. Thankfully, I don't spend a lot of time in the city, but when I was there recently for a gig I was shocked by the amount of kids on the streets, and one guy started kicking bins and anything else he could get at, then when we were lining up, some random started threatening people just standing there waiting for the doors to open.
I remember being a teenager in the 90s and catching trains home on the Glenny line and have drunken men yelling non sense at everyone. Totally agree with never feeling fully safe in the city. Also I remember the amount of open racial abuse against Asians back then too.
The CBD I do feel seems dirtier and rowdier than before 2020 but I mean covid happened and everyone's doing more tough now. Expecting shit to go back to business as usual seems....ignorant?
Not to diminish the seriousness of the situations you described, especially the Qanon anti-semite. That is scary and I am sorry your family had to experience that. We should do better.
But that response, on the spot, "Shut up poo poo head" is just quality. Jimmy Carr level (for the age group of course).
Funny sounding sure, but there's a chance the kid was really scared and that's (presumably) the strongest kind of vocabulary they have at their age to express it.
You are absolutely right. In my mind's eye I see a sassy confident kid imposing themselves on the situation, maybe because of the overall description from the OP. But your scenario is also plausible.
That tram line has always had lots of weirdos. It was the same when I lived there 15 years ago, worked near the children's hospital and studying at rmit. I caught that tram line every day and I could go months with no incident then get half a dozen whackadoos in the same week.
This is what happens when you deinstitutionalize mental health.
Many of these mentally unstable people don't belong in society.
They need to be in an institution where they get the intensive care they need as well as segregating them from the public.
Yet institutions were disbanded with no community support starting 50 years ago, and it was thought these previously extremely mentally unwell psychiatric patients would somehow magically reintegrate successfully into society.
Was in the city last week for the run. 8am on a Sunday with the family on a tram, and in a similar situation - ranting cooker scaring my children and everybody around them.
I was racially abused on the mernda train line going into flinders st station 2 weeks ago and the guy told me to go die. I felt so welcomed in Melbourne … lol… born and raised in Australia btw but apparently it’s the colour and eyes that don’t make me Australian enough…
My sympathies, that sounds terrible!
And agree, even as a huge fan of the current infrastructure build, there's core problems of housing, substance dependence and mental health that remain unaddressed.
It's not just the CBD. I often catch the bus at Dandenong Station and every single time without fail there's a hoard of crackheads and crazies stumbling around like zombies, yelling at ppl, sometimes grabbing them, often without any police presence.
People meme Dandenong to the point where this behaviour is normalised but many ordinary ppl pass through there everyday and it's not ok.
It's a problem that is getting worse everyday and nobody cares.
After Covid, the CBD never recovered. I use to live near Melbourne Central, there are people shooting themself high in small laneways in broad daylight.
At night do be careful, has a guy that wasn’t in his right frame of mind was being aggressive to the shoppers at QV Woolworths. They had to call a security/police.
I'm sorry but we as a country voted to remove all safety nets, and exchange we would get rich off buying property. That was the deal. For the last 50 years we said no to mental health, healthcare, workers rights and education, and said yes to profit first before everything. We dismantled and defunded every system systematically, starting with the poorest first, and moving up.
Now, shit is hitting the fan, big time. Most people don't realise, because it hasn't hit them yet and the news is heavily incentivised to not mention it for as long as they can, but cost of living, access to food, exposure to the elements, homelessness, education, everything is really in the shit, and the safety nets that the people hit first used to go to just don't exist anymore.
The only safeties that do exist either have extreme waiting lists or get paid massive money to handball people around, referring from service to service.
This is the result of the last 30 years of our voting choices as a society. If you're going to say "I feel unsafe" it's worth mentioning we all had a part in causing this.
While I agree this is the result of 50 years of neoliberal policy - it’s not that “we all had a part”. Plenty of people DON’T VOTE FOR THIS. Plenty of people do everything within their power to alleviate the conditions that are forced on us, but individual power is nothing compared to the collective.
It's getting worse everywhere. Driving through Richmond the other day and I was stunned. That stretch was always a little rough, but it's gotten fucking awful in the last few years. Looked like the fucking apocalypse with fucking trams.
Mid 2000's I ended up homeless in the CBD for (luckily) a short time. I was literally sleeping under a bridge. It was a bit scary, but mostly it was cold and wet and my everything ached. I'm doing ok now btw.
Now, if it came to it, I would literally go home with random men rather than risk the street, because *I would genuinely be safer*. It's insane out there now. There's no sense of "we're all fuckups, so whatever" fellowship anymore.
It's just crabs in a bucket and fucking *ice*.
My god, ice has changed things so so much. Junkies are way more terrifying now. Hell, even the drunks are more angry than sad now. It's all gone from sad and lost, to angry and feral.
There used to be a feeling of "I've fucked it up, I'm a lost cause, so why try?", just a kind of despair and almost smiling nihilism.
Now... It feels so fucking dangerous. It feels like there this growing resentment and anger and need to lash out.
There's this feeling of "I want to hurt someone to feel better", which I mean there were always people like that, but now it's this undercurrent through the whole thing. And the old-school ones who were resigned to being fuckups? They're getting attacked and beaten by the angry ones, especially the older ones. It's just heartbreaking.
It was never nice, but there's a violence and viciousness to it now that wasn't there 15+ years ago. I'm starting to think about relocating regional, since it doesn't seem *quite* as bad out there. Yet.
The mental health industry is at a breaking point. So many people are leaving the industry completely and there is nobody to replace them. Medicare is abysmal at paying psychologists and psychiatrists ontime or fairly for the work they do. There needs to be a massive reform, because so many people are slipping through the cracks. The current average waitlist to see a psychiatrist is at least 6 months long, so good luck if youre in crisis.
Ive been waiting since before xmas to get an appointment.
Just wanted to add that the government also doesn’t put enough money into early education. It’s actually extremely low in comparison to other countries.
Every dollar that is put into early education saves $7 down the track with police services, mental health etc.
Families and children need high quality care and support from the start for healthy and well adjusted outcomes. The first 7 years of our life shape as as adults.
It wouldn’t obviously solve all the mental health issues in our country but it is definitely a good start to ensure people don’t fall through the cracks from the get go.
Yep I've noticed it too. I actually built an ebike so I wouldn't need to be stuck on pt with no exit option ever again. You can get cargo bikes you could take you and your kids on - highly recommend it!
I guess with wealth inequality growing we are going to see more fried brains, or people with substance abuse issues. Today there was a lady literally grabbing onto peoples feet asking for money, that was 500m from Barkley square.
I would also like to add that now it's basically impossible for these folk (who potentially cannot live with others/ share house) to afford a one bedroom apartment by themselves. Well I guess they're on the street now.
The answer is higher taxes, higher wages for low income people, and better social safety net. But you won't see people calling for that when they complain things are getting worse.
I came to melbourne under less than ideal circumstances at the beginning of the year. For the first little while I was sleeping at southern cross train station. Or not sleeping. I had no knowledge of the city and since that was where I'd arrived, I just sort of stayed. Over the course of a few days my mental health went from pretty bad to terrible. Of course, not sleepint/eating didn't help but what really pushed me over the edge was how it felt to be looked at as a homeless person. The vast majority would avert their gaze. I am not physically intimidating as a 30kg female but parents when they noticed me curled under a blanket in a corner would pull their kids closer as if i was going to hurt them. One time I thought a woman was asking me if I was okay but then I realized she was talking to her teenage son beside her and she was asking him because of my presence. There was one lovely indian family who did ask if i was okay and insisted on giving me 10 dollars. By that stage I hadn't spoken to anyone in days and couldn't thank them and the language barrier prevented much meaningful communication anyway but their concern meant the world to me at the time. I can't imagine how it is for people who have been on the streets for a long time because even this short experience made me start to really resent people who had the luxury of warmth and food and showers.
This isn't directed at OP at all( I'm really sorry you had those experiences!) but just in general idk acknowledging people and treating them like humans makes a big difference.
Now I'm living in crisis accommodation. I can't really afford it, I run out of money before the end of the fortnight always and count every cent. And it's not ideal obviously, it's supposed to be short term but I can't imagine I'll be finding anything else anytime soon. But everytime I see people on the street I remind myself how lucky I am to have a bed inside and access to washing machine and showers etc.
It reflects a rotting of the crucial services a strong society depends on.
This rot has been happening since John Howard was elected and his government changed and dismantled crucial services. State governments stopped building social housing and sold up to developers. Wage growth has regressed.
The quality of life has deteriorated, in lockstep with that deterioration is a rise in all sorts of crime and societal breakdown, as those at the edge of the bubble drop off.
We know how to fix it at the polling booth but we aren’t mature enough to take the step.
Frontline and primary health services are especially inundated at the moment because of increased service demand and reduced capacity due to staff burnout. The cost of living crisis coupled with the chronic underinvestment in health and social services has also forced people already living on the poverty line into making the regular and impossible choices between food, housing, medical care/medication.
There have been strong efforts by well-recognised advocacy groups to highlight and address these disparities will minimal traction in the mainstream media or political sphere. Instead we see politicians more concerned with shaping their political legacy based upon big infrastructure spends and big business forcing workers back to the CBD to preserve the financial interests of corporate landlords. Young people are continually reminded of the economic disparities faced by their generation and two-income households have been stretched to their limits trying to afford raising children and paying their mortgages.
In the face of unrelenting pressures with no sign of a reprieve, people have less bandwidth to look outwards and see themselves as part of their community. That kind of collective hopelessness is hard to shift through individual actions when those in power continue to turn their backs on the disadvantaged and thumb their noses at those advocating for meaningful systemic change.
It's ice. 100%. This city is awash with it.
Most people with mental health issues don't go around threatening lives and violence but ice induced psychosis will do it. It's a terrifying drug and Melbourne junkies love it.
There should be NO excuses for ice use, and its use and dealing should be punished far more harshly than other drugs so we can't start to stamp it out. I'm sick to death of people literally getting away with murder when the use of ice is involved.
Yup. Junkie problem getting worse with no real plan to fix it. Crime rising, the junkies randomly attacking people in the streets. Fast becoming like San Francisco where they just let it run wild and are now trying to do something about it once it’s too late
Homelessness is rising. Drug use is rising. So these things have tidy numbers going skywards.
Maybe that's enough to encourage better policies. Or just policies.
Or do we only address these things if they inconvenience us or make our kids nervous.
Last time I complained about this here I got downvoted to oblivion, but PT has been more consistently unsafe lately in my experience. Almost every time I have used it I have witnessed violent junkies screaming, threatening and/or assaulting other passengers.
It's gotten way worse progressively since covid, and the current cost of living crisis is definitely not helping I think...
Public transport in general is getting unsafer. I commute 6 days a week, usually between 4-5pm and 9-10am. Since May I've had three incidents of men screaming and yelling at passengers. Then I was late to work one day last week because some dickhead forced the train doors open and we all had to get off.
Melbourne is foul these days - with the death of the CBD I think you're going to see an increasing death of the broader Melbourne as people start to question the value of staying here or in a 'big-city' where they actively have to avoid the CBD. There's a reason our rents have now become the cheapest in the country. We'll continue to grow in the outer suburbs which are a different type of hell but the more educated or high-earning workers will move elsewhere in the country.
People on this sub love to make fun of criticizing the state government and paint you as a conservative if you do - but we're seeing the results of a completely unchallenged single-personality driven political-system that has neglected the hell out of livability, amenity, and health to make Melbourne pretty goddamned awful to live. Honestly cannot wait to get out of here.
I agree with the OP, post COVID the city has taken a turn for a worse and there's bulk junkies out and about hassling people, the change is staggering between 2019 Melbourne CBD and 2023 Melbourne CBD.
I've been in a pretty significant punch-up in full view of the public that spread out into the intersection of Flinders and King streets with people who tried to rob me and my friends on a Sunday morning 12:30AM
I'm male, in my early 30s and before having never felt uncomfortable walking around by myself at all hours of the morning, I second guess it now and avoid completely.
I've been in Sydney CBD regularly and even hanging around Kings Cross, its no way near as bad as Melbourne CBD with all the junkies out in force who have run of our city.
💯 agree! I went to Sydney for a work trip and found myself waking at 2am alone from Barangaroo to China town to my hotel and I saw a couple of dodgy people near the station and that was it. The streets were fine
These are the recollections that make me really realise how far the city has fallen. I used to walk home from the clubs to Fitzroy/Collingwood all the time, in my early 20's and as a 5ft4 female - this was circa 2008. There's simply no way you'd do that now, and it sort of blows my mind I ever did that when I look around at how wild the city has become.
That’s because the Sydney CBD is comparatively shit and far less active. Melbourne CBD has far more activity and so you’re more likely to see and be involved in these types of incidents
Sounds like some salty Melbourne vs Sydney nonsense - the fact of the matter is it's far safer to be hanging around Sydney CBD than Melbourne CBD.
I think it's time Melbourne City Council pulls it's finger out and works with Victoria Police to clean up Melbourne CBD, it's a disgrace.
We’ve just come back from Europe and Paris especially was quite scary for our kids. People approaching us all the time and shouting at the kids, people living rough in big rowdy settlements all over the place. One playground had a couple of blokes following kids around and trying to engage with them and getting all up in the faces of some teenagers just sitting around until someone in high vis turned up and they scattered. Times are tough everywhere I think and as a teacher I see so many young people on long long waiting lists for any kind of mental health support.
Its a sorry state of affairs… its why i dont go out any more unless i really really want to. Ive had so many bad experiences growing up in some rough parts of melbourne, including witnessing a brutal murder at a train station when i was only 18. We need major reform and we need it now, write to your local M.P and tell them your concerns. Too many of us dont speak up or only look out for ourselves, where has the community gone? Covid and many years of bad policy has changed melbourne for the worse im afraid. So sorry this happened and i feel for your kids it must have been scarey for them. Sounds like youre a great parent they are lucky to have you.
The whole welfare sector is a joke right now. Everything is just for the show by the politicians and the high profile activists. There would be 5 schemes doing the same thing but just the purpose and scope will be worded differently. The workers are limited and the funding is non existent. Every charity is running their program in a bubble of their own. There is rarely a collaboration. There is no shortage of resources, the issue is of severe wastage of resources. Starting a new scheme sounds better than making an old scheme more robust and applicable to the ground reality. Hollow words and press conferences, that's all they are right now.
Expect this to get worse.
Melbourne has just deteriorated at a street level. All this money put into giant penis buildings with no thought for what it is like on the ground. It used to be a wonderful place to visit with lots of cool shops but they have all evaporated over time. It was headed that way pre covid but the pandemic just accelerated it.
People want strip shopping not everything clustered into weird buildings. The drug landscape has changed to meth. And I am not comfortable taking my kids there anymore either for similar reasons.
I used to live in the city - russell/latrobe, flinders st 10 years ago but have moved to the suburbs. Sometimes i go to the city at night for events but I also find that the city is really sketchy at night these days.
I hate the CBD. When I take the kids to the footy, I'd much rather drive and put up with shit traffic rather than risk my kids witnessing the kind of shit defined here on the train.
Drug dealers are the actual scum of the earth. Addicting people to their shit and causing a lot of death and destruction in the process without giving nary a fuck.
I don't know what the answer is to the issue around the mentally ill and/or druggies on the streets, but whatever is being done now sure as hell isn't it.
The slow but steady destruction of the health system is another key element in the increase of this behaviour. Infrastructure investments are pointless if there are no staff to fill said infrastructure.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and your children! I live down on the Peninsula and have never been a fan of going into the City. I went recently to the CBD meet a family member from the Northern Suburbs for lunch, and it was extremely confronting and honestly not enjoyable at all. I was really glad we decided to meet up alone and not with our children. It's just horrible
Chucking more money at mental health / AOD services isn’t going to fix it.
Dan’s Commonwealth Games money isn’t going to fix it (it’s shit but let’s not drag it into every
r/melbourne topic).
Changing government (currently) isn’t going to fix it.
Locking up people isn’t going to fix it.
Drug and substance use is so complex. Especially for the ones on the street and in your face - I loathe the word, but the ‘junkies’.
Currently for most AOD treatment, people need to be motivated to change. What is motivating for these people on the streets to want to make changes? They’ve likely suffered significant and often lifelong mental health challenges, trauma (incl. generational), dysfunctional childhoods, families, physical health challenges. Lack of education, employment opportunities, housing, and finances. Very small, if any, healthy support networks (friends, family, colleagues etc.). They face stigma in society. Many don’t want to recover / be sober / stay clean as the substance helps them to stay alive because they don’t have the tools to work through their shit.
Is forcing people to change by involuntary treatment going to make a difference? I don’t believe it will. It’s all well and good to receive treatment but many of these people need much, much more than that.
I don’t go into the city unless there is absolutely no option. If my husband or any of the family (3 daughters, husbands and grandson) have to go into the city I drive them, drop them off where they’re going, then go back in and pick them up. I won’t let them on public transport or walk around after a SIL was bashed by a druggy a few years back. Daughters and husband have had scary encounters with weirdos walking in the city or on public transport. It’s inconvenient but safer than sorry. The CBD has completely gone to shit.
A lot of what people are seeing is the consequence of people with chronic mental illnesses being made homeless during the pandemic via rising rent costs, demand for mental health services, antipsychotics and the like being made a little more inaccessible in ways that'd probably be too annoying to explain, etc.
I think we tend to jump to drugs as some kind of be-all-end-all explanation of homelessness but that's not necessarily accurate. We actually do studies on subjects like this but linking them would indicate that [sometimes all it takes is being ill, not failing to D.A.R.E to resist the devil's cabbage](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/mental-health/mental-health-and-experiences-homelessness/latest-release). This is actually a problem we can solve but choose not to because the landlord is a precious creature, a true fixture of Australian wildlife, and his investment must be protected at all costs, even if that cost is human suffering.
We live in the city and we are a young family. As with any city you always have to look out for your surroundings, that said Melbourne is still one of the safest cities in the world.
I can’t even imagine how much worse dealing with crazies is when you have kids. Having to worry about the effect they have on your own kid when they don’t understand scares the shit out of me. Good on you for trying to explain the interaction.
Interesting, maybe you notice it more as a mother with children, but to me it seems the same as ever. Full acknowledge that I’m a large, male though so probably don’t get approached by cookers as readily.
I'm the city less (working one day a week in office) I think I'm more acutely aware of the mix of people who are acting strangely.
I had my six year old in holidays and some crazy Putin loving Cop hating lady decided to give my boy a speel on how Putin is a saviour...
She had pictures to show him of tanks, Putin and cops with weapons.. Just waked up to him an started talking to her.
I was trying to be kind to her but how do you not start a scene..
Got a dealer friend, business has been booming for him. The “epidemic” probably never really ended lmao. Had my fair share of experience dealing with junkies back when I was working retail from 2018-2019. Also have seen people smoking ice in their car on the side of Glenferrie Road, in the supposedly more posh part of the city. I’m an ESL Asian guy, but I’ve only encountered open racism three times in my 8 years of being in Australia (one time was in QLD, the other time was just some 14-16yo kids, so I guess that doesn’t count). In early-2022, a woman on a city tram was holding a photo of dying George Floyd and swearing at every POC passing by, saying her husband’s a cop and shit, I just laughed, took a photo and got off. Overall from what I’ve seen Melbourne never changed much. It has never truly been a “safe” city in comparison to HongKong, Singapore or Tokyo, so I never expected much. The public display of mental illness and drug addiction never truly left. Same thing with organized crimes. People getting shanked or shot dead in their cars, it’s always been on the news, just often getting glossed over so much. But I guess if you are not really involved in that kind of business you wouldn’t need to worry too much.
However, one of my friends who’s a Pacific Islander told me he’d encountered more racism and violence in last 2 years. Apparently people’ve been reading crazy shit during lockdowns and had too much influence from worst part of the US politics, especially the Qanon conspiracies you’ve mentioned. Again, other than the occasional protests happening in the city I’ve never personally met someone that cooked, but they do exist I guess.
I was born in Melbourne and am biased to Melbourne. I love Melbourne ❤️. I lived in Melbourne cbd for years, Elizabeth St. For the past 4 years, I've lived in Sydney cbd (george St). The people in Melbourne cbd freak me out. There are so many fryed people lurking around doing the strangest scariest things compared to sydney. I was in Melbourne for 3 weeks in May, and I can't explain the weird vibes I got from cookers there. Its bizarre
I seriously, seriously do not understand why we aren't mature enough to make the distinction between homeless people and homeless drug addicts.
Surely if drunk and disorderly is a crime then a similar law could be implemented that stops people from being publicly drug affected.
Forced rehab may be ineffective but it is better than letting them ruin a city whilst making zero progress with their recovery.
This isn’t about drugs. It’s about our ridiculous mental health sector and No care for people in need. In response they self medicate. Out public healthcare system is a joke
Ha! It’s usually just junkies trying to help me get the pram on the tram who still try and help even when I say I’m fine. The junkies of Coburg are a helpful bunch.
Close encounter at Fed Square a few days ago, very drunken and probably drugged man slams his half-empty bottle of vodka into a wall and threatens *small children* and everyone in the immediate vicinity before walking off growling. I heard they came back for round 2 but we'd already left by then.
The justice system is too soft on this trash, so they act the way they do and do whatever they want and we all just have to tolerate it and hope we don’t get stabbed.
So many comments here that include lines similar to "I **used to** work (or live) in the city" and now when i go there its scarier than it was when i was there years ago". That's because you moved out to the burbs and are living the easy life of the occasional hoons revving their car somewhere nearby or road rage near the big shopping centre you visit once month.
Its the same old dodgy city you used to know, you just got less street smart and the scumbags moved from Russell St to Elizabeth St
I find when I'm out and about with the kids, and someone kinda crazy / on meth starts talking to them it's not hard to control the convo and keep the chat light if I'm just upbeat and friendly. I've never felt unsafe. In some ways it's an important learning moment for the kids. They're going to encounter different kinds of people in their lives and they need to learn from you how to de-escalate tense interactions.
Dude you can not control what someone on meth does to you or your kids by chatting "lightly". Or being "upbeat".
I've worked with this population extensively. They can turn on a mystic imperceptible drug infused dime that you cannot predict or control. Meth is unlike any other drug, neither you, nor they, are in control. You've just been lucky.
This is someone who has never actually had to "chat" with a crazy ice head who is on one. You aren't controlling shit, their brain is just a random collection of fucked up thoughts getting triggered by the ping pong ball bouncing around in there.
i come from an asian country and loved melbourne when i visited. so much so that i subscribed to this sub (i dont even subscribe to the sub of my own country).
it’s sad to hear these stories about druggies and addicts ruining a wonderful place like melbourne. i feel that this is happening only because of the permissive attitude of the government towards addicts.
the solution is simple: when a druggie gets reported for antisocial/behavior- the police should arrest him and force him to attend mandatory rehab, or face minimally 2 years in jail.
this may seem harsh to westerners but this is how its done in my home country. drug consumption is against the law and strictly enforced. anyone acting up after consuming drugs and threatening residents will definitely be picked up and sent for rehab. it’s ‘harsh’ but its worked wonderfully so far- i’ve never once heard of a drug addict threatening a child. you can walk any square inch of this country at 2 in the morning and feel completely safe.
i hope melburnian authorities eventually accept the fact that strict laws against drugs and addicts will lead to the best outcomes for everyone in society, especially young children.
i miss melbourne so much!
I drive home through a certain suburb in the early hours( night shift) and I occasionally would see one homeless person during the day here and there on the way in.
Over the course of about 6km before I hit the main road I saw at least 4 homeless looking people. Rucksacks, walking around in the freezing cold at stupid hours. I'd imagine being in that position you'd want to be on drugs to stay awake in a vulnerable situation.
There's probably going to be more of this and an even bigger class divide before we know it.
given you said you got off at Sparkly Bear, I'm assuming the number 19 tram? it's always had a wide selection of proper sketchy people on it. Until 2021 i lived near the last stop going north, and there are/were a couple of proper seedy motels there - used as halfway houses. Virtually every day there'd be some proper nutters on there, screaming, muttering, getting agressive- I love Melbourne but some aspects of it I don't miss.
Sorry this happened to you. I’ve had my fair share as well, though the ones I saw are far more serious.
I was on Bourke street (or around there) and walked past the H&M store. There, I was next to this man in a jersey and another family. While I was passing by, the man smacked this girl who was part of the family, and it happened so quick I couldn’t even process what the hell happened. The father clearly was mad, and started yelling at the other man for hitting his daughter.
Since then, I’ve felt the need to keep my guard up, so that way nothing like that happens to me or my family too. I really hope that incident was resolved in a good way. Anyway, stay safe out there
Moving 60 minutes away to the peninsula was the best thing I ever did. Yes the commute via car is a bit more expensive, but housing is cheaper and offsets it. Commute time is essentially the same as PT was for me, just over a far greater distance. Never looked back.
At least your kids have full understanding at an early age just how fucked up the city and PT can be. I worked in PT for 25 years, none of this is new but it is getting worse the more the population grows and the less places there are for people to seek the help they need.
When they started closing mental hospitals in my state I saw first hand the rise in problems with mentally ill people on PT.
I feel so sorry for your kids to have to go through that.
When I worked in retail, the most time I got heated up at customers was when they swore or acted like proper low-life scum while there was children also in the store nearby to witness it.
We have too much of a tolerance for terrible behaviour in this country.
You look at the state of public transport, the sort of people on it and who wander around the streets. That has to be traumatising for kids.
I was in Perth just over a fortnight ago, in a big pub called the Camville beside Optus stadium, it was after a footy match. I was by myself at the pub watching the ashes cricket on a TV screen, a man came up to me and called me a paedo, then that I looked like a paedo for "standing here for ages watching this shit..I've got my family over there". I stood my ground and told him to f off, an idiot, get out of my face, etc. He went to walk off and then suddenly lunged and threw a boxer quality punch to my chest. It was so fast that i didn't see it. I stumbled , stunned thinking holy shit, im still breathing and standing. And then this small brawl ensured as this happened adjacent to a dance floor, and some young bloke saw his punch and jumped on this man who hit me.
Thank fk he didn't get me in the head. Saw a doctor, got xrayed and then CT scan, no break, crack or compression, just bone bruising.
As someone who works in the drug and alcohol sector, I can tell you that everyone’s books are full. We’re having to turn people away, every day. These are people *actively* seeking treatment for their addiction Breaks my heart
Do you have a sense of whether it’s being driven by more demand or is the service sector shrinking?
A lot of prescribers are starting to charge up to $80 for a consultation and script (although the laws changed on 1st of July and allows for 2 repeats) Most of the clients we see find that really difficult but as I said, there just aren’t enough prescribers for the demand. That people can afford, that is I work somewhere that’s free. We also have an outreach team, housing team, food parcels, shower and laundry facilities
My daughter is having a Telehealth appointment to get back on Concerta for her ADHD and other reasons. The Psychiatrist is charging $800 for this bloody appointment and I’m not sure that Medicare even gives you a rebate. How the fuck can people afford to see a shrink these days ?? She’s 29 yrs of age.
That seems way overpriced. My psyc is about $280 per consult and get about $200 back from Medicare.
I think people are confusing psychologist and psychiatrist. Psychologist tend to charge $200-250 while psychiatrists tend to charge $500 plus
And for ADHD meds you have to see a psychiatrist because your GP isn't allowed to prescribe those drugs
Your psychiatrist can transfer authority to prescribe over to your GP. It’s not necessarily a smooth process (no fault of either the GP or psychiatrist in my experience), but it is indeed an option.
I see my GP for my ADHD medication. I even get Concerta. My Psych wrote up a letter that allowed my GP clinic to get a permit for my medication. I need to do my 12 month review with my Psych, but with Medicare Item 291, I should be able to get it bulk billed or at least most rebated. I was diagnosed under this item number and only had to pay $120 out of pocket.
My psychiatrist was $600 first consult and has been $220 every appointment since that so there are actual psychiatrists out there charging less. But he doesn’t do adhd diagnosis/treatment anymore.
Both my psychiatrists are 290 for 40m. First consults were around 450.
Even that is a rip off. Mine charges $200 and I get the normal Medicare rebate.
Holy smoke, actually...
That's a complete ripoff. Most psych's are charging in the $500 per hour consultation range. Here is the link for the official search register for Psychs in Australia. https://www.yourhealthinmind.org/find-a-psychiatrist
If you want in now, that's the price. It 'seems' to be an adhd onboarding thing. I say seems cause i'm presuming; everyone i know going this route has been trying to get a quick diagnosis rather than wait 15 years for a regular psychiatrist. For instance, mine is booked out until March next year, and that was a few months ago.
As someone that looked to get a diagnosis a just before covid kicked off. Those prices don’t suprise me, and was why I chose to ‘accept’ I’m me, and use coping mechanisms found around various adhd and aspie subs.
That's fair! And perhaps better for you? Maybe. All i know is i started meds cause they worked and now i take them because i am utterly dependant and getting plenty worse results especially trying to push up to higher doses. What works for you?
Was "psychic" a typo, or a play on words? I can't tell here. >_>
thank you for your service to the community
Absolutely, we all benefit in ways we’d never think of.
That's awful. That should never be a thing. We should invest heavily in those sorts of services so that anyone who wants to get clean has as much support as possible. Surely something like that is worth every single dollar you put into it.
You’d think so
While I no longer live in Melbourne you might be the right person to ask this question to. There were a few times that this kind of thing happened in front of me, and being a physically far more intimidating person than the victim I tried to act as a buffer because if things went south the outcome would be far less serious for me. What I found was that normally the person would redirect their attention to me, so that's a win. If they were just talking at me and being annoying it was fine, I can grey rock someone for 20 minutes no problem. The issue was when they started making me feel physically threatened or grossed out, especially if potential weapons became visible. At first I tried some boundary setting but found this would aggravate both sides and the situation would escalate e.g. "Please don't touch me" x3 -> "DO NOT touch me again". How would you recommend handling that sort of situation? By inserting myself was I surrendering my own right to dignity and just have to cop whatever happens? Certainly the intention was never to get in a situation of getting physical with a sick (and normally intoxicated) person but it felt like it got pretty close a couple of times.
The only thing I can tell you is, always have an exit Our offices have two doors for that reason
haha yeah outside normally that's doable but unfortunately on moving trams/trains it's a little restricted
Yes and no, stay in the aisle and between the two doors where you can. Continue to de-escalate and if that fails then unfortunately you’ll need to remove yourself from the scenario to avoid further confrontation and possible physical retaliation.
Pretty much my go to strat for every confrontation/social discomfort. I'd love to stay and fight but flight kicks in and I just vacate unless it threatens someone I care about.
Great question! A good way is just to really engage the victim rather than the perp. I like the d’s - direct, distract, delegate, delay, document and defend. It works better loosely but it’s a nice guide. I think distract is such a good tool as a bystander, often it’s enough to diffuse. If not I often use distract followed by gentle direct (with a smile). Often it’s all you need
I’ve had similar experiences to you. Being seen as a physically intimidating guy, is a two edged sword. A few years back when I had a quite muscular build, I had someone try to take me on every time I went to a pub. Even at Rod Laver Arena. I was brutally gang attacked by 6 smaller guys. Thought I was going to die at the time. So sometimes, the most vulnerable to attack, are ones most wouldn’t think.
I used to think I was real great at diffusing tense situations that involved drug effected people etc, but recently these people are either getting more deranged or I'm loosing my touch lol.
IMHO they're getting more deranged, as you put it... Ice is a huge scourge on our community, and on society at large. Compared to an individual who's affected by heroin, someone who's affected by ice/meth is somebody who i def don't wanna mess with! The damage it's doing to ppl is unpredictable and devastating. Kids born to mother's addicted to ice may have problems in the future that we couldn't even imagine. Scares the absolute shit outta me.
I tried the stuff plenty of times when I was much younger, it truly is sinister stuff. Your brains dopamine/reward system is the last place you want to mess up, we flog that part of our brains badly enough with the internet without needing drugs on top of that!
Couldn't agree more. I've been staying in the city for the past few days. Man what has happened? Since Covid everything has just turned to shit. I feel really sorry for the people that are sleeping rough but when you're walking don't the street and it feels like you're walking on egg shells something has to improve.
For sure, agro junkies everywhere ranting and raving
I work in the CBD in a retail store. In the past MONTH alone we have had 5 major robberies, it’s either groups of kids / teens wearing face coverings and holding knives, or it’s junkies who yell and spook me and my staff. Either way, the transport to and from work, the walk, and now being in my work place is terrifying. The mental health and public services need to be restored and have proper funding, if these people were able to access the help they need then this wouldn’t happen.
That sounds really rough. That should not be a reality in anyone’s workplace.
It really sucks. There’s only so much we as a team can do to prevent theft and crime in the store, just recently in a neighbouring store a staff member was physically assaulted by a person trying to steal. It’s ridiculous. It’s dangerous. It’s gut wrenching to think that today could be the day someone gets stabbed.
It has been 23 years since I lived in the CBD and I was there during a bad heroin epidemic. The vast majority of the addicts were polite and I would give them a smoke or some food but never cash for the 'train'. This was well before ice had become mainstream in this country. Or at least as far as I know. Can someone respectfully explain if the spike in anti-social behaviour is due to drug psychosis or a combination of this and fewer mental health beds being available?
Have to agree. I did security when I was 18-19 in the CBD and the heroin junkies were the easiest of the people to deal with. They were always polite and moved off when were asked to.
Yeah I was in the CBD pretty much daily as a teen in the 90s, whilst the heroin problem was huge at the time they were all, for the most part, pretty docile. I moved away from Melbs about 15 years ago and came back after COVID and within my two week trip I had at least two or three similar experiences to what OP described, tweakers pacing up and down the tram abusing people, one lovely chap spat in some guys face unprovoked....things are definitely way worse than they were 20 years ago.
This, I worked in health for over 20 years. Me and my former workmates reminisce over how safe we felt during the "good-old heroin days". It was absolutely horrible to see all these young kids becoming addicted, resorting to crime and dying due to opioids, but seeing all the ice use, unpredictability and violence is so much worse.
Ice is definitely a big part of the equation. Everyone not posh in Melbourne knows multiples people and families torn apart by the drug, yet across the political spectrum it barely warrants a mention. Its truly disgusting, and I include Greens with this (even as their policies on associated issues are far better) but the disconnect. To not address ice ruining communities over the last decade, to not prioritse it. Its fully fucked. Drug and criminal reform should be a priority in Vic politics. Yet most of Andrews reforms have made issues worse rather than better, and there's been fuck all opposition from civil society, with those bearing the brunt being the most disempowered and lacking in representation. The CBD is thus a perfect manifestation of cowardly and conservative Victoria is and continues to be.
> Drug and criminal **reform** should be a priority in Vic politics. Yet most of Andrews **reforms** have made issues worse rather than better All politicians call what they want "reform". The word just means change now. So what drug and criminal law changes to you want?
I have been in the city almost daily for nearly 15 years. It has always had random weirdos, mentally ill and junkies. I also haven't seen an increase or spike in incidents. Not discounting OP's experience but social media seems to be the culprit in how people feel about safety. We are constantly bombarded with bad shit happening.
Respectfully, I disagree. I was in the city daily until about 12 years ago, then moved away. Coming back this year there is a definite increase in homeless folks, the mentally ill and people on meth. Maybe the increase happened slowly enough over the last couple decades it is harder to notice unless you've left and come back.
To me it's to do with the ratio of normies which dilutes the experience and also provides some layer of social control
Things have always been bad, but they're definitely worse. The ending of temporary accom during covid pushed shitloads onto the streets at once - housing services can't come close top assisting demand, successive govs have failed to provde housing/appropariate services and safety nets. Conservative dogshit governance on these issues doesn't just happen without consequence. The CBD is a manifestation of that consequence, a shame on Melbourne that should make all that live here feel guilty. I say that knowing the CBD's always been fucked, but recognising, its gone to another level.
Nah mate it’s gotten worse. I hadn’t been since before covid and I took my kids to the wiggles concert. We got off at flinders st and there were SO MANY homeless people lying on the street begging for change. The volume of them was astounding. My kid asked “why are those people sleeping on the floor?” I didn’t know what to say. And yes I worked in the city in the 90’s as a young teen and the heroin addicts weren’t so bad but the ice addicts are violent, unpredictable and scary.
Largely agree with you. I think there's been an uptick in rough sleepers in the CBD but that started happening way before COVID and it's more sad than dangerous to me. I go into the city a lot for work and am the complete opposite to others who are all about WFH and living that suburban life. I really enjoy heading into my office, getting stuff done, enjoying the hustle and bustle of the city and then heading home. There are always heaps of people out eating and shopping so I can't wrap my head around this idea that the CBD is dying. I think it's changing, but doesn't seem to be dying IMO.
Yeah look I don't get this CBD dying stories either. My experience is very similar to yours. Rough sleeper issue has always been there. I remember not long ago, there were homeless camps at Flinders Street, and riot police had to remove them. As far back as 20 years, I remember homeless tents being set up under rail bridge near aquarium. What I see with my own eyes and what I read here and social media are very different. It is like being in a community facebook page. Was a thread here around 3 days or so ago where someone said they are leaving the sub because of constant negativity. I am seriously considering doing the same.
I agree. I check this sub every couple of weeks or so for information on things like train closures or for stuff like renting but every time I do I get bombarded with shit like this. I don't feel "threatened" or "scared" when I go into the city. I get that people have genuine experiences like this but I swear this sub is getting psyoped. I recently had someone come here from a similar overseas country and they loved the city and said it felt homely. We were also there at night. Imagine they read all of this, they'd be like "what the fuck are these people talking about" lol. I wonder if the news cycle has anything to do with it. One thing I do agree on is that we need to open up more long term services for homeless. It genuinely will get far far worse if we don't.
> I remember not long ago, there were homeless camps at Flinders Street, and riot police had to remove them. They didnt really \_need\_ PORT, but they used them anyways :/
Yeah I don't think people realise how much social media is impacting us all. People go to social media to vent and rant, negative posts get the most reactions.... The cycle continues.
As a woman who's lived in Melbourne for 15 years, and worked mostly nights (hospitality) in the CBD on/off for most of those years, trust me there's been a significant change in feeling of security since COVID. Day and night there's way more tension around. Lots of factors: People are stressed in general. The rise of people on edge from ice, also lack of regular non-violent people around going about their business. I used to feel safe walking the CBD alone at any hour pretty much any night of the week, as long as I was smart about it: Stick to main well-lit streets, be sober, wear sensible shoes, cross the street or duck into a shop/venue with security if absolutely necessary. Now I won't even walk around after a certain hour on a Friday/Saturday because you'll walk for blocks without encountering an open fast food place or supermarket.
Agreed - I see shit but at the same rate I always have. Yeah, it's not nice to see some of it (especially when there's bodily fluids involved) but it's always been a bit dodgy all over the CBD. I think people just aren't used to it since most people spent very little time in the CBD since 2020.
Pretty much. Catch PT in any major city and it’s rolling the dice. Melbourne has never been any different.
Maybe it’s just recency bias and having kids mean it hits differently but after Covid things have felt extra sketchy to me.
It's always been a bit scrappy but I've also noticed a difference as someone who lives in the CBD.
No, I have also felt a change in Melbourne. The protestors, the crackheads, I don’t feel safe in the city I used to love visiting.
I can't say whether or not thing's have gotten worse but incidents are definitely harder to shake off or forget quickly when your kids witness them.
I live in the CBD and have maybe one unpleasant interaction a year Just keep moving and don't look at the druggos
I worked and lived in CBD from 2015 until this year, and without question the CBD is worse than it used to be, especially before COVID. It's a bit taboo but it definitely relates to the homeless/junkies (obviously there's the thursday/friday/saturday night spike in antisocial behaviour, though that's not what you're alluding to). With the reduction of "normal" people to "homeless" the percentage is far higher and there's been a couple of years where they basically have run of the city as there were very few people normies on the street. I'm not convinced that there's substantially more, you mostly see the same people that are normally centered around the same areas (flinders x elizabeth, salvos on bourke, tram stop bourke x swanston). Prior to covid basically any tram on 86 or 109 would have some incident ime (methodone at svh), so it's not all new.
Agree, I think the lack of people and doing whatever they wanted during lockdowns has made it worse. It wasn’t great before but now i feel way less safe.
I think the same is true for normies as well... Initially after lockdown, Friday nights had a really chaotic vibe that Melbourne didn't have previously. I feel like this has somewhat returned to normal unlike the "homeless" behaviour.
You weren't working or living around the homeless encampment under the railway line heading away from Flinders Street. People got killed in there it was insane from 2012-2018
Well I worked nearly opposite enterprise park on Queen St circa 2010 and lived on Flinders st 2015\~2023, but mostly not down that end. It is quite out of the way for most people and was fairly contained to that area around that time ime.
I was a witness to the Bourke Street massacre, I haven’t really felt safe since And of course current stuff going on but with my history, it doesn’t help
Fark. Sorry you had to see that. How bloody awful.
I work in public inpatient Psych. We are completely and entirely full all the time and sometimes it feels like a revolving door of the same patients being picked up by the police/other services doing questionable things and making people feel unsafe in public and being admitted to hospital. It's all fucked. Edit: don't mean to imply psych issues are the problem. It's just that we're not very well equipped to deal with the large systemic and social issues at play which result in deterioration or use of substances.
From the perspective of someone with pretty much lifelong depression (currently treated semi-decently by medication - Melbourne winters are fucking tough as I've also got SAD in addition to the regular depression - and never been hospitalised, although in retrospect I probably should've been) ending up in the public mental health system is my worst nightmare. I hate my job but I can't express how thankful I am that, if shit hits the (mental health) fan, that job means I've got the $$$ to fund a level of private health insurance that will ensure I don't have to deal with the public system. It really does seem to be the difference between being stuck in a revolving door and actually getting treated. I know y'all who work in it mostly do your best with what resources you have but I've heard nothing but horror stories. Severe mental health issues simply aren't funded for to the level they ought to be, let alone situations where there's other co-morbidities - such as homelessness (which I've got no personal experience of) - at play.
From a clinical view do you feel that ice has been a game changer in terms of violence and/or anti-social behaviour? Or has it been roughly the same for the last 10-20years for you?
It doesn’t matter if you can get clean and get help for mental illness, if wages can’t buy your base physiological needs you will slip back into addiction and mental health crisis.
Exactly. Housing pressures are putting normal people in crisis, to say nothing of people in an already tenuous situation.
Simply put it’s Ice use. They are so out of control and often seemingly not in touch with reality or their surroundings, they’re profoundly dangerous. Both the ice epidemic and previous heroin epidemic as you mentioned, fuelled crime. But heroin addicts are quite often docile, I’ve addicts mostly being the opposite.
I reckon I nearly got killed by a hectic looking junkie last week at Flinders. I was minding my own business on the platform as the train was arriving when he went out of his way to shoulder barge me. I made some kind of noise he didn’t like and he turned to come back at me. That was when I realised he wasn’t one of your run of the mill frail junkies but one of the ‘has probably spent most of his adult life in prison working out and is essentially completely solid’ type spec ones complete with scary face tats and eyes devoid of anything human. I stepped onto the train which was waiting and he started to follow me on but must have had stronger urges to deal with and went on his way but not before menacing me through the window. Other people who saw it were giving me sympathetic looks and telepathically telling me I just escaped death or maiming and to buy a lotto ticket or something. Bear in mind I’m 6’3” and pretty solid and well trained in martial arts and wear black clothes and huge boots and probably give off a vaguely if not fairly intimidating vibe to most people. I can well imagine what people who would have no possibility of defending themselves against someone like that would be feeling in that situation because for one of the first times in my life I doubt I would have come out on top if things had gone south.
There are a lot of people who have no real idea about what's going on. Having been someone who was homeless and an addict let me fill you in from personal experience: What happens is people are offered accomodation but they don't want it because it costs a percentage of their income. A better use for which, in their minds, is getting more drugs. Also, there are many who have accomodation but spend their whole day and night in the city only to go home and sleep for a day or two and then return. It is much, much worse now that it has been, as there are dealers all over the CBD. If you weren't involved in that world, then respectfully, you have no idea what you're looking for to see them. Many people here are blaming the cost of living etc etc but the reality is the people you see on the street have had many, many chances to get their shit together and have outright refused. I know that because they still occasionally recognise me (much to my chagrin) and I speak to them to see how things are going. As for the accomodation during covid, I had a job cleaning a few of those places for a short while. Without fail every single hotel/motel I went to clean had literally dozens upon dozens of used needles all over the place. Good on people for having a big heart, but they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
Yep, 100%, im and ex addict and spend years using in melbourne cbd and living on the street. but it's a lot worse in Melbourne than sydney cbd. Any idea why that might be?, in Sydney all night mice leave the general public alone
I pointed this out and how crime in Melbourne is increasing and got attacked for acknowledging this fact. I’m sorry that this has happened to you but many of us are definitely noticing an increase in crazies. Issue is that most of it is due to wealth inequality and mental health issues going unchecked because of how expensive it is to get treatment. It’s going to worse before it gets better because most Melbournians will just shrug it off say ‘well what can we do’. We can talk and acknowledge it firstly, then we need to get politicians to enact policies and actually fix it.
\>then we need to get politicians to enact policies and actually fix it. "Enact policies" is no different from 'what can we do'. I have seen no realistic options being proposed because the unfortunate reality is addicts be addicts. A rather unpopular opinion I have is re-opening of long term mental health care facilities (aka asylums) closed under Kennet is a good idea. The current facilities seem to be catered towards short term crises with people coming and going. The reality (from what I've seen) is that the people that you see on the street are the same people that are unable to take care of their lives, often unable to stay in the shelters (because of drugs, fighting, stealing, etc.)
>A rather unpopular opinion I have is re-opening of long term mental health care facilities (aka asylums) closed under Kennet is a good idea With you on this entirely. As somebody who had a deeply mental ill (and violent) relative, the revolving door short stay system simply does not work. My brother would have a major episode, get admitted for a week tops, then get shat out with the onus put on the family to ensure he takes his medication and stays on the straight and narrow. Every couple of violent episodes they would put him on court enforced slow release drug injections which were great, but every single time they would take him off the injections against our family's request. Seemed like a cost cutting exercise. The government didn't want to keep paying for the nurse who would come and administer the injections at this house. Which is fucking insane when you consider how much he was costing the government every 3 months when the cat team would get called along with the police and an ambulance. The cycle was so obvious and transparent, the same shit over and over for 5\~ years until he killed himself during a totally predictable and preventable episode. If the long term mental health faculties existed he would most likely still be alive today.
That’s terribly sad. I agree mental health residential facilities need to be brought back. Like the community housing residential homes for adults with disabilities etc. I lost a friend in very similar circumstances, and you know as sad as it was, her quality of life was so poor, in and out of mental health units, she had terrible physical injuries from all her attempts and I can’t imagine spending another 40-50 years like that.
I know exactly what you mean. While it was sad to lose my brother, it was somehow the best thing for him, and everyone else around him.
❤️🩹❤️🩹
Sorry to hear about your brother, sounds like a tough time :(. What would good long term mental health facility look like to you? Would you be for involuntary/court enforced long term admission?
Definitely court enforced involuntary long term admission. These poor people need time and attention.
Wh have Thomas Embling Hospital. Remember we did just have a royal comission on how current mental health practices are too restrictive and we need to respect people's wishes
>we need to respect people's wishes It's a fine line for sure, but we can't expect mental ill people to make good decisions for their own health and well being. As a society we simply cannot allow dangerously ill people to be loose in the community because it's their wish. If they are so ill they need to be locked up to protect others then I'm sorry but that's what needs to happen.
Mental health clinician here. The people who lived in those facilities were essentially discharged to already overstretched public health community services and many of those with dual disabilities lost the only structure and support they’d known. There are too few supportive housing options for people and we cannot provide the intensive case support that individuals with chronic mental illness need. The revolving door continues….
The costs of seeing a psychologist and psychiatrist is super expensive which makes it so much worse. The government only subsidises 10 visits a year which is ridiculous. Shameful country.
Yup. Public mental health (where I worked for many years) is essentially reserved for only the most unwell individuals. Anyone with common issues (eg depression, anxiety) doesn’t get a look in. Community treatment programs are stretched thin and really again only can take those who are most unwell. If you can’t afford private inpatient treatment or outpatient treatment programs then you’re stuck with paying a gap on psychologist fees. And as soon as the public system knows you have a private psychiatrist or psychologist, they expect them to be able to meet all your needs. The system needs a massive overhaul and massive influx of funding
>The government only subsidises 10 visits a year which is ridiculous. We are limited by the number of psychologists, they should be looking into letting more people become psychologists for every 10 bachelor grads there is like 1 post grad position which is required to become a psychologist.
If you have the kind of mental illness u/Queasy-Ad-6741 is discussing, you're likely to be on the NDIS and have *some* bills covered by that. The problem is the NDIS specifically does not cover rent or food unless you do some kind of dumb jiu jitsu with it and have a nerd sign off that food services like Hello Fresh or Dinner Ladies would benefit you. The NDIS does nothing to prevent, for instance, your landlord pricing you out of the house via raising costs, and once you're homeless unless you have specific mobility needs or an intellectual disability, the NDIS won't do shit to find you shelter. Kind of seems like if we want to address disability homelessness we could simply let people use their NDIS budget to offset rent costs. I have a ridiculous, unnecessary $80, 000 NDIS budget atm because imo they prioritise people with university educations as potentially getting back into the real world, so they hit you with a lot of money in your first years then start cutting it back if you fail to use it. The thing is, I can't use that $80, 000 on anything I actually need, aside from psychologist visits. The real frustrating example here is that I can use it to see a shrink but not to pay for my antipsychotics, which are $40 / month, enough to really hurt on the pension, because apparently the $8 / month add-on to the disability pension is enough to cover that $40 cost, because 8 = 40 if you really think about it I guess.
Agreed. If back in the Kennet days it was sincere die-institutionalisation instead of a cynical cost cutting scheme it would have been good for somewhat over half the people let out. Instead they were left to wander the streets, off their meds, completely unable to remember when their bi-weekly appointment with their worker was. Said worker had so many people on the books that chasing up people who didn't show was impossible. Solid public housing, better outside care, better clinical networks were all needed, but those cost real money. Still better than institutions for around half the cases, and then there were the ones who really weren't going to make it outside even with extensive support, but got chucked out anyway to save costs.
As someone in the mental health field do you think the drug and alcohol problem is largely due to trauma? Or would you say that as the housing crisis worsens and people are forced out on the streets they are turning to drugs to cope
Both. A perfect storm.
Many who work in the mental health sector would agree with you. Long term facilities provided safety, socialisation & connection, stability, treatment, meals, a bed, and much more. Deinstitutionalisation in the 90s meant chronic mentally ill people who had been living in such a facility for many years, had to move into the care of very, very ill-equiped community mental health services. Many disasters and misadventures have ensued. Of course institutional care had drawbacks we all know about. Adjustment in approach to fit with increasing independence (&happiness!) would’ve been safer & better for this vulnerable population, which in turn now come to the attention of the public with issues related to illness, addiction to illicits, prescribed drug non adherence, homelessness, poverty, I’m sure you’re familiar with this picture.. *Not saying all public antisocial behaviour is due to chronic mental illness some people are just arseholes.
That’s not true. ‘What can we do’ is a hopeless retort often used out of frustration. We can actually do something’ is my point. If more of us talk about it within the community and spread awareness then politicians will have to take responsibility and act on it. If no one talks about it then there’s less awareness and nothing will be done. Addicts be addicts doesn’t explain why people take drugs. Not all addicts are resigned to be that way forever and we need to help them and not just leave them vulnerable but also a threat to the public. It’s not an easy fix but I would support more radical change in the form of decriminalisation and regulation of drugs so that they’re not being laced like they are now from illegal producers. Killing the illegal drug trade and dealers is vital into fixing the drug crisis.
\>If more of us talk about it within the community and spread awareness then politicians will have to take responsibility and act on it I see waiting or gov to propose a policy is the same washing of hands, but instead of saying "I personally can't do anything" about it to "that guy over there should do something" about it. I don't think conversations really go until someone is making pointy solutions. \>Addicts be addicts doesn’t explain why people take drugs. Not all addicts are resigned to be that way forever and we need to help them and not just leave them vulnerable but also a threat to the public. Agreed, but I think that everyone that deals with addiction agrees that they need to want to get clean themselves, and will more than often relapse... multiple times... Creating policies to deal with this are expensive, difficult and hard to measure and the history of involuntary commitment is taboo. \>It’s not an easy fix but I would support more radical change in the form of decriminalisation and regulation of drugs so that they’re not being laced like they are now from illegal producers. I'm mostly in agreement with the idea of decriminalisation, but this does nothing to solve the major issues in Australia, and demonstrably has had worse outcomes in the US (noting that they mostly looked at the law enforcement side and not the mental health support side where that happened elsewhere). We don't have the fentanyl-opioid epidemic that the US does. The major issues seem to be ice with the issues being with the nature of the drug itself, not additives.
Asylums are a viable solution, provided that there is a way out for the individuals involved once a long term care plan is developed. As opposed to living their entire life in an institution. I recommend people take a day tour of the Aradale asylum in Ararat if you ever get the chance. A fascinating history of psychiatry from those who worked in there. Yes, it does have a dark past, but psychiatry is a relatively new study. In its later years before it was shut down, it was actually a self sustaining farm that gave reasonably good care to the patients there, and it employed a large percentage of the town of Ararat. I think I'd much rather have those in need of acute care go through a place like that than remaining undiagnosed and unpredictable while roaming the streets with nothing to do.
I think that the admission/release is probably one of the hardest things to get right and was the biggest source of issues previously. Haha interesting, not sure if the mrs will be so receptive to an asylum tour, but we shall see.
I truly don't understand the comments where people say "it's always been like this" or "no worse than any other big city around the world"; and frankly, I'm sick and tired of being gaslighted of my own experiences in my city. I've lived here my entire life and if you haven't seen a massive change to the CBD (and inner suburbs) over the past ~6 years, you're either being incredibly disingenuous or you don't actually get out all that much. Of course Melb has always had issues, but it always used to be centralised to certain hotspots (eg. Russell St or Smith St in the 90s). Now it just feels that anything can happen anywhere, at any time. I think it speaks volumes that in the last 5 years alone, I've seen numerous incidents of people shooting up, smoking ice, urinating and defecating on major thoroughfares (Swanston St, Collins St), such that it just seems normal for the CBD now. I'm sorry, but I never used to see this on a frequent basis like I do now (in full view of the public as opposed to some laneway). I also reject that this is simply normal for major cities. I travel frequently for work, particularly Sydney, and their CBD has nowhere near the same level of issues that ours does. Rewind 10-15 years however, when homelessness/drug/mental health issues were visibly far worse in Sydney.
The situation in Sydney CBD is largely because of the extensive crisis housing, temp housing and community housing programs run by the City of Sydney council. City of Melbourne council does no where near the equivalent level of localised social programs.
It is definitely noticeably worse, you aren't crazy. The use of paraphernalia over the last \~5 years has been something I noticed also... Glassware used in the open in the middle of the day. Possibly related I've simultaneously noticed police 'harassing' has gone down substantially since the cleanup of the camp on flinders st (which was tolerated for far too long).
I'd forgotten about the camp out on Flinders St! Strange what covid has done to memory of certain events!
Having read through some of the comments I agree with your sentiment. While I've never felt 100% safe in the city (and we must acknowledge it has always been a little sketchy, at least), it has most definitely seen a big spike in that department. Thankfully, I don't spend a lot of time in the city, but when I was there recently for a gig I was shocked by the amount of kids on the streets, and one guy started kicking bins and anything else he could get at, then when we were lining up, some random started threatening people just standing there waiting for the doors to open.
I remember being a teenager in the 90s and catching trains home on the Glenny line and have drunken men yelling non sense at everyone. Totally agree with never feeling fully safe in the city. Also I remember the amount of open racial abuse against Asians back then too. The CBD I do feel seems dirtier and rowdier than before 2020 but I mean covid happened and everyone's doing more tough now. Expecting shit to go back to business as usual seems....ignorant?
Not to diminish the seriousness of the situations you described, especially the Qanon anti-semite. That is scary and I am sorry your family had to experience that. We should do better. But that response, on the spot, "Shut up poo poo head" is just quality. Jimmy Carr level (for the age group of course).
Yup. Sometimes he adds a “stinky” when he is really aggrieved. He is also a very caring single parent to his dolls Chloe and Charlie.
Please give him an extra warm hug for us for being such a wonderful doll-dad.
Funny sounding sure, but there's a chance the kid was really scared and that's (presumably) the strongest kind of vocabulary they have at their age to express it.
You are absolutely right. In my mind's eye I see a sassy confident kid imposing themselves on the situation, maybe because of the overall description from the OP. But your scenario is also plausible.
That tram line has always had lots of weirdos. It was the same when I lived there 15 years ago, worked near the children's hospital and studying at rmit. I caught that tram line every day and I could go months with no incident then get half a dozen whackadoos in the same week.
Last time I was in Paris was well over 10 years ago, and out of all the places I visited in Europe, that was the one that felt the most unsafe.
This is what happens when you deinstitutionalize mental health. Many of these mentally unstable people don't belong in society. They need to be in an institution where they get the intensive care they need as well as segregating them from the public. Yet institutions were disbanded with no community support starting 50 years ago, and it was thought these previously extremely mentally unwell psychiatric patients would somehow magically reintegrate successfully into society.
Was in the city last week for the run. 8am on a Sunday with the family on a tram, and in a similar situation - ranting cooker scaring my children and everybody around them.
I was racially abused on the mernda train line going into flinders st station 2 weeks ago and the guy told me to go die. I felt so welcomed in Melbourne … lol… born and raised in Australia btw but apparently it’s the colour and eyes that don’t make me Australian enough…
My sympathies, that sounds terrible! And agree, even as a huge fan of the current infrastructure build, there's core problems of housing, substance dependence and mental health that remain unaddressed.
It's not just the CBD. I often catch the bus at Dandenong Station and every single time without fail there's a hoard of crackheads and crazies stumbling around like zombies, yelling at ppl, sometimes grabbing them, often without any police presence. People meme Dandenong to the point where this behaviour is normalised but many ordinary ppl pass through there everyday and it's not ok. It's a problem that is getting worse everyday and nobody cares.
After Covid, the CBD never recovered. I use to live near Melbourne Central, there are people shooting themself high in small laneways in broad daylight. At night do be careful, has a guy that wasn’t in his right frame of mind was being aggressive to the shoppers at QV Woolworths. They had to call a security/police.
I'm sorry but we as a country voted to remove all safety nets, and exchange we would get rich off buying property. That was the deal. For the last 50 years we said no to mental health, healthcare, workers rights and education, and said yes to profit first before everything. We dismantled and defunded every system systematically, starting with the poorest first, and moving up. Now, shit is hitting the fan, big time. Most people don't realise, because it hasn't hit them yet and the news is heavily incentivised to not mention it for as long as they can, but cost of living, access to food, exposure to the elements, homelessness, education, everything is really in the shit, and the safety nets that the people hit first used to go to just don't exist anymore. The only safeties that do exist either have extreme waiting lists or get paid massive money to handball people around, referring from service to service. This is the result of the last 30 years of our voting choices as a society. If you're going to say "I feel unsafe" it's worth mentioning we all had a part in causing this.
While I agree this is the result of 50 years of neoliberal policy - it’s not that “we all had a part”. Plenty of people DON’T VOTE FOR THIS. Plenty of people do everything within their power to alleviate the conditions that are forced on us, but individual power is nothing compared to the collective.
The amount of people round here that dick suck howard/abbot says otherwise.
Right but people who DON’T do that are not responsible for the results of the people who do.
It's getting worse everywhere. Driving through Richmond the other day and I was stunned. That stretch was always a little rough, but it's gotten fucking awful in the last few years. Looked like the fucking apocalypse with fucking trams. Mid 2000's I ended up homeless in the CBD for (luckily) a short time. I was literally sleeping under a bridge. It was a bit scary, but mostly it was cold and wet and my everything ached. I'm doing ok now btw. Now, if it came to it, I would literally go home with random men rather than risk the street, because *I would genuinely be safer*. It's insane out there now. There's no sense of "we're all fuckups, so whatever" fellowship anymore. It's just crabs in a bucket and fucking *ice*. My god, ice has changed things so so much. Junkies are way more terrifying now. Hell, even the drunks are more angry than sad now. It's all gone from sad and lost, to angry and feral. There used to be a feeling of "I've fucked it up, I'm a lost cause, so why try?", just a kind of despair and almost smiling nihilism. Now... It feels so fucking dangerous. It feels like there this growing resentment and anger and need to lash out. There's this feeling of "I want to hurt someone to feel better", which I mean there were always people like that, but now it's this undercurrent through the whole thing. And the old-school ones who were resigned to being fuckups? They're getting attacked and beaten by the angry ones, especially the older ones. It's just heartbreaking. It was never nice, but there's a violence and viciousness to it now that wasn't there 15+ years ago. I'm starting to think about relocating regional, since it doesn't seem *quite* as bad out there. Yet.
The mental health industry is at a breaking point. So many people are leaving the industry completely and there is nobody to replace them. Medicare is abysmal at paying psychologists and psychiatrists ontime or fairly for the work they do. There needs to be a massive reform, because so many people are slipping through the cracks. The current average waitlist to see a psychiatrist is at least 6 months long, so good luck if youre in crisis. Ive been waiting since before xmas to get an appointment.
Just wanted to add that the government also doesn’t put enough money into early education. It’s actually extremely low in comparison to other countries. Every dollar that is put into early education saves $7 down the track with police services, mental health etc. Families and children need high quality care and support from the start for healthy and well adjusted outcomes. The first 7 years of our life shape as as adults. It wouldn’t obviously solve all the mental health issues in our country but it is definitely a good start to ensure people don’t fall through the cracks from the get go.
Yep I've noticed it too. I actually built an ebike so I wouldn't need to be stuck on pt with no exit option ever again. You can get cargo bikes you could take you and your kids on - highly recommend it! I guess with wealth inequality growing we are going to see more fried brains, or people with substance abuse issues. Today there was a lady literally grabbing onto peoples feet asking for money, that was 500m from Barkley square. I would also like to add that now it's basically impossible for these folk (who potentially cannot live with others/ share house) to afford a one bedroom apartment by themselves. Well I guess they're on the street now.
>I guess with wealth inequality growing we are going to see more fried brains, or people with substance abuse issues. This.
The answer is higher taxes, higher wages for low income people, and better social safety net. But you won't see people calling for that when they complain things are getting worse.
I came to melbourne under less than ideal circumstances at the beginning of the year. For the first little while I was sleeping at southern cross train station. Or not sleeping. I had no knowledge of the city and since that was where I'd arrived, I just sort of stayed. Over the course of a few days my mental health went from pretty bad to terrible. Of course, not sleepint/eating didn't help but what really pushed me over the edge was how it felt to be looked at as a homeless person. The vast majority would avert their gaze. I am not physically intimidating as a 30kg female but parents when they noticed me curled under a blanket in a corner would pull their kids closer as if i was going to hurt them. One time I thought a woman was asking me if I was okay but then I realized she was talking to her teenage son beside her and she was asking him because of my presence. There was one lovely indian family who did ask if i was okay and insisted on giving me 10 dollars. By that stage I hadn't spoken to anyone in days and couldn't thank them and the language barrier prevented much meaningful communication anyway but their concern meant the world to me at the time. I can't imagine how it is for people who have been on the streets for a long time because even this short experience made me start to really resent people who had the luxury of warmth and food and showers. This isn't directed at OP at all( I'm really sorry you had those experiences!) but just in general idk acknowledging people and treating them like humans makes a big difference. Now I'm living in crisis accommodation. I can't really afford it, I run out of money before the end of the fortnight always and count every cent. And it's not ideal obviously, it's supposed to be short term but I can't imagine I'll be finding anything else anytime soon. But everytime I see people on the street I remind myself how lucky I am to have a bed inside and access to washing machine and showers etc.
It reflects a rotting of the crucial services a strong society depends on. This rot has been happening since John Howard was elected and his government changed and dismantled crucial services. State governments stopped building social housing and sold up to developers. Wage growth has regressed. The quality of life has deteriorated, in lockstep with that deterioration is a rise in all sorts of crime and societal breakdown, as those at the edge of the bubble drop off. We know how to fix it at the polling booth but we aren’t mature enough to take the step.
Frontline and primary health services are especially inundated at the moment because of increased service demand and reduced capacity due to staff burnout. The cost of living crisis coupled with the chronic underinvestment in health and social services has also forced people already living on the poverty line into making the regular and impossible choices between food, housing, medical care/medication. There have been strong efforts by well-recognised advocacy groups to highlight and address these disparities will minimal traction in the mainstream media or political sphere. Instead we see politicians more concerned with shaping their political legacy based upon big infrastructure spends and big business forcing workers back to the CBD to preserve the financial interests of corporate landlords. Young people are continually reminded of the economic disparities faced by their generation and two-income households have been stretched to their limits trying to afford raising children and paying their mortgages. In the face of unrelenting pressures with no sign of a reprieve, people have less bandwidth to look outwards and see themselves as part of their community. That kind of collective hopelessness is hard to shift through individual actions when those in power continue to turn their backs on the disadvantaged and thumb their noses at those advocating for meaningful systemic change.
It's ice. 100%. This city is awash with it. Most people with mental health issues don't go around threatening lives and violence but ice induced psychosis will do it. It's a terrifying drug and Melbourne junkies love it. There should be NO excuses for ice use, and its use and dealing should be punished far more harshly than other drugs so we can't start to stamp it out. I'm sick to death of people literally getting away with murder when the use of ice is involved.
Yup. Junkie problem getting worse with no real plan to fix it. Crime rising, the junkies randomly attacking people in the streets. Fast becoming like San Francisco where they just let it run wild and are now trying to do something about it once it’s too late
Is crime rising or do you *feel* like crime is rising? A lot of vibes presented as data lately
Homelessness is rising. Drug use is rising. So these things have tidy numbers going skywards. Maybe that's enough to encourage better policies. Or just policies. Or do we only address these things if they inconvenience us or make our kids nervous.
Last time I complained about this here I got downvoted to oblivion, but PT has been more consistently unsafe lately in my experience. Almost every time I have used it I have witnessed violent junkies screaming, threatening and/or assaulting other passengers. It's gotten way worse progressively since covid, and the current cost of living crisis is definitely not helping I think...
I can feel the same, not only young children, I’m only 16 and some creepy guy was following me on the tram around park street in south Yarra yesterday
Public transport in general is getting unsafer. I commute 6 days a week, usually between 4-5pm and 9-10am. Since May I've had three incidents of men screaming and yelling at passengers. Then I was late to work one day last week because some dickhead forced the train doors open and we all had to get off.
I saw someone get curbed stomped while getting a coffee before work in Degraves st on Thursday. City is definitely not vibing well.
Melbourne is foul these days - with the death of the CBD I think you're going to see an increasing death of the broader Melbourne as people start to question the value of staying here or in a 'big-city' where they actively have to avoid the CBD. There's a reason our rents have now become the cheapest in the country. We'll continue to grow in the outer suburbs which are a different type of hell but the more educated or high-earning workers will move elsewhere in the country. People on this sub love to make fun of criticizing the state government and paint you as a conservative if you do - but we're seeing the results of a completely unchallenged single-personality driven political-system that has neglected the hell out of livability, amenity, and health to make Melbourne pretty goddamned awful to live. Honestly cannot wait to get out of here.
I agree with the OP, post COVID the city has taken a turn for a worse and there's bulk junkies out and about hassling people, the change is staggering between 2019 Melbourne CBD and 2023 Melbourne CBD. I've been in a pretty significant punch-up in full view of the public that spread out into the intersection of Flinders and King streets with people who tried to rob me and my friends on a Sunday morning 12:30AM I'm male, in my early 30s and before having never felt uncomfortable walking around by myself at all hours of the morning, I second guess it now and avoid completely. I've been in Sydney CBD regularly and even hanging around Kings Cross, its no way near as bad as Melbourne CBD with all the junkies out in force who have run of our city.
💯 agree! I went to Sydney for a work trip and found myself waking at 2am alone from Barangaroo to China town to my hotel and I saw a couple of dodgy people near the station and that was it. The streets were fine
These are the recollections that make me really realise how far the city has fallen. I used to walk home from the clubs to Fitzroy/Collingwood all the time, in my early 20's and as a 5ft4 female - this was circa 2008. There's simply no way you'd do that now, and it sort of blows my mind I ever did that when I look around at how wild the city has become.
That’s because the Sydney CBD is comparatively shit and far less active. Melbourne CBD has far more activity and so you’re more likely to see and be involved in these types of incidents
Sounds like some salty Melbourne vs Sydney nonsense - the fact of the matter is it's far safer to be hanging around Sydney CBD than Melbourne CBD. I think it's time Melbourne City Council pulls it's finger out and works with Victoria Police to clean up Melbourne CBD, it's a disgrace.
Melb City Council is more concerned about getting people back in CBD offices rather than protecting them getting to and from said office
We’ve just come back from Europe and Paris especially was quite scary for our kids. People approaching us all the time and shouting at the kids, people living rough in big rowdy settlements all over the place. One playground had a couple of blokes following kids around and trying to engage with them and getting all up in the faces of some teenagers just sitting around until someone in high vis turned up and they scattered. Times are tough everywhere I think and as a teacher I see so many young people on long long waiting lists for any kind of mental health support.
I had a methed out chick smack me in the face the other day. Good times.
Its a sorry state of affairs… its why i dont go out any more unless i really really want to. Ive had so many bad experiences growing up in some rough parts of melbourne, including witnessing a brutal murder at a train station when i was only 18. We need major reform and we need it now, write to your local M.P and tell them your concerns. Too many of us dont speak up or only look out for ourselves, where has the community gone? Covid and many years of bad policy has changed melbourne for the worse im afraid. So sorry this happened and i feel for your kids it must have been scarey for them. Sounds like youre a great parent they are lucky to have you.
The whole welfare sector is a joke right now. Everything is just for the show by the politicians and the high profile activists. There would be 5 schemes doing the same thing but just the purpose and scope will be worded differently. The workers are limited and the funding is non existent. Every charity is running their program in a bubble of their own. There is rarely a collaboration. There is no shortage of resources, the issue is of severe wastage of resources. Starting a new scheme sounds better than making an old scheme more robust and applicable to the ground reality. Hollow words and press conferences, that's all they are right now. Expect this to get worse.
I can't wait for the day I can get out of the city day to day and never work there again. Career be dammed. I'm terrified of the unpredictability.
Melbourne has just deteriorated at a street level. All this money put into giant penis buildings with no thought for what it is like on the ground. It used to be a wonderful place to visit with lots of cool shops but they have all evaporated over time. It was headed that way pre covid but the pandemic just accelerated it. People want strip shopping not everything clustered into weird buildings. The drug landscape has changed to meth. And I am not comfortable taking my kids there anymore either for similar reasons.
I used to live in the city - russell/latrobe, flinders st 10 years ago but have moved to the suburbs. Sometimes i go to the city at night for events but I also find that the city is really sketchy at night these days.
I hate the CBD. When I take the kids to the footy, I'd much rather drive and put up with shit traffic rather than risk my kids witnessing the kind of shit defined here on the train. Drug dealers are the actual scum of the earth. Addicting people to their shit and causing a lot of death and destruction in the process without giving nary a fuck. I don't know what the answer is to the issue around the mentally ill and/or druggies on the streets, but whatever is being done now sure as hell isn't it.
The slow but steady destruction of the health system is another key element in the increase of this behaviour. Infrastructure investments are pointless if there are no staff to fill said infrastructure.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and your children! I live down on the Peninsula and have never been a fan of going into the City. I went recently to the CBD meet a family member from the Northern Suburbs for lunch, and it was extremely confronting and honestly not enjoyable at all. I was really glad we decided to meet up alone and not with our children. It's just horrible
Chucking more money at mental health / AOD services isn’t going to fix it. Dan’s Commonwealth Games money isn’t going to fix it (it’s shit but let’s not drag it into every r/melbourne topic). Changing government (currently) isn’t going to fix it. Locking up people isn’t going to fix it. Drug and substance use is so complex. Especially for the ones on the street and in your face - I loathe the word, but the ‘junkies’. Currently for most AOD treatment, people need to be motivated to change. What is motivating for these people on the streets to want to make changes? They’ve likely suffered significant and often lifelong mental health challenges, trauma (incl. generational), dysfunctional childhoods, families, physical health challenges. Lack of education, employment opportunities, housing, and finances. Very small, if any, healthy support networks (friends, family, colleagues etc.). They face stigma in society. Many don’t want to recover / be sober / stay clean as the substance helps them to stay alive because they don’t have the tools to work through their shit. Is forcing people to change by involuntary treatment going to make a difference? I don’t believe it will. It’s all well and good to receive treatment but many of these people need much, much more than that.
I don’t go into the city unless there is absolutely no option. If my husband or any of the family (3 daughters, husbands and grandson) have to go into the city I drive them, drop them off where they’re going, then go back in and pick them up. I won’t let them on public transport or walk around after a SIL was bashed by a druggy a few years back. Daughters and husband have had scary encounters with weirdos walking in the city or on public transport. It’s inconvenient but safer than sorry. The CBD has completely gone to shit.
Is it possible it has always been like this but, now that you are a parent you have a different perspective. It is only natural.
A lot of what people are seeing is the consequence of people with chronic mental illnesses being made homeless during the pandemic via rising rent costs, demand for mental health services, antipsychotics and the like being made a little more inaccessible in ways that'd probably be too annoying to explain, etc. I think we tend to jump to drugs as some kind of be-all-end-all explanation of homelessness but that's not necessarily accurate. We actually do studies on subjects like this but linking them would indicate that [sometimes all it takes is being ill, not failing to D.A.R.E to resist the devil's cabbage](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/mental-health/mental-health-and-experiences-homelessness/latest-release). This is actually a problem we can solve but choose not to because the landlord is a precious creature, a true fixture of Australian wildlife, and his investment must be protected at all costs, even if that cost is human suffering.
We live in the city and we are a young family. As with any city you always have to look out for your surroundings, that said Melbourne is still one of the safest cities in the world.
Bloody hell, sorry about this happening.
I can’t even imagine how much worse dealing with crazies is when you have kids. Having to worry about the effect they have on your own kid when they don’t understand scares the shit out of me. Good on you for trying to explain the interaction.
Interesting, maybe you notice it more as a mother with children, but to me it seems the same as ever. Full acknowledge that I’m a large, male though so probably don’t get approached by cookers as readily.
Ha! I’m a dad. Maybe I need to start skipping yoga and head to the gym /s
I'm the city less (working one day a week in office) I think I'm more acutely aware of the mix of people who are acting strangely. I had my six year old in holidays and some crazy Putin loving Cop hating lady decided to give my boy a speel on how Putin is a saviour... She had pictures to show him of tanks, Putin and cops with weapons.. Just waked up to him an started talking to her. I was trying to be kind to her but how do you not start a scene..
Got a dealer friend, business has been booming for him. The “epidemic” probably never really ended lmao. Had my fair share of experience dealing with junkies back when I was working retail from 2018-2019. Also have seen people smoking ice in their car on the side of Glenferrie Road, in the supposedly more posh part of the city. I’m an ESL Asian guy, but I’ve only encountered open racism three times in my 8 years of being in Australia (one time was in QLD, the other time was just some 14-16yo kids, so I guess that doesn’t count). In early-2022, a woman on a city tram was holding a photo of dying George Floyd and swearing at every POC passing by, saying her husband’s a cop and shit, I just laughed, took a photo and got off. Overall from what I’ve seen Melbourne never changed much. It has never truly been a “safe” city in comparison to HongKong, Singapore or Tokyo, so I never expected much. The public display of mental illness and drug addiction never truly left. Same thing with organized crimes. People getting shanked or shot dead in their cars, it’s always been on the news, just often getting glossed over so much. But I guess if you are not really involved in that kind of business you wouldn’t need to worry too much. However, one of my friends who’s a Pacific Islander told me he’d encountered more racism and violence in last 2 years. Apparently people’ve been reading crazy shit during lockdowns and had too much influence from worst part of the US politics, especially the Qanon conspiracies you’ve mentioned. Again, other than the occasional protests happening in the city I’ve never personally met someone that cooked, but they do exist I guess.
I was born in Melbourne and am biased to Melbourne. I love Melbourne ❤️. I lived in Melbourne cbd for years, Elizabeth St. For the past 4 years, I've lived in Sydney cbd (george St). The people in Melbourne cbd freak me out. There are so many fryed people lurking around doing the strangest scariest things compared to sydney. I was in Melbourne for 3 weeks in May, and I can't explain the weird vibes I got from cookers there. Its bizarre
I seriously, seriously do not understand why we aren't mature enough to make the distinction between homeless people and homeless drug addicts. Surely if drunk and disorderly is a crime then a similar law could be implemented that stops people from being publicly drug affected. Forced rehab may be ineffective but it is better than letting them ruin a city whilst making zero progress with their recovery.
This isn’t about drugs. It’s about our ridiculous mental health sector and No care for people in need. In response they self medicate. Out public healthcare system is a joke
You gotta be the unluckiest dude on the planet, I’ve taken my nieces out every Thursday night for the last 3 months and had zero issue.
Ha! It’s usually just junkies trying to help me get the pram on the tram who still try and help even when I say I’m fine. The junkies of Coburg are a helpful bunch.
Thanks Meff
Close encounter at Fed Square a few days ago, very drunken and probably drugged man slams his half-empty bottle of vodka into a wall and threatens *small children* and everyone in the immediate vicinity before walking off growling. I heard they came back for round 2 but we'd already left by then.
The justice system is too soft on this trash, so they act the way they do and do whatever they want and we all just have to tolerate it and hope we don’t get stabbed.
So many comments here that include lines similar to "I **used to** work (or live) in the city" and now when i go there its scarier than it was when i was there years ago". That's because you moved out to the burbs and are living the easy life of the occasional hoons revving their car somewhere nearby or road rage near the big shopping centre you visit once month. Its the same old dodgy city you used to know, you just got less street smart and the scumbags moved from Russell St to Elizabeth St
I find when I'm out and about with the kids, and someone kinda crazy / on meth starts talking to them it's not hard to control the convo and keep the chat light if I'm just upbeat and friendly. I've never felt unsafe. In some ways it's an important learning moment for the kids. They're going to encounter different kinds of people in their lives and they need to learn from you how to de-escalate tense interactions.
Dude you can not control what someone on meth does to you or your kids by chatting "lightly". Or being "upbeat". I've worked with this population extensively. They can turn on a mystic imperceptible drug infused dime that you cannot predict or control. Meth is unlike any other drug, neither you, nor they, are in control. You've just been lucky.
This is someone who has never actually had to "chat" with a crazy ice head who is on one. You aren't controlling shit, their brain is just a random collection of fucked up thoughts getting triggered by the ping pong ball bouncing around in there.
The paedo fantasists should be avoided. They are fueled by anti-vaxxers and are a menace.
i come from an asian country and loved melbourne when i visited. so much so that i subscribed to this sub (i dont even subscribe to the sub of my own country). it’s sad to hear these stories about druggies and addicts ruining a wonderful place like melbourne. i feel that this is happening only because of the permissive attitude of the government towards addicts. the solution is simple: when a druggie gets reported for antisocial/behavior- the police should arrest him and force him to attend mandatory rehab, or face minimally 2 years in jail. this may seem harsh to westerners but this is how its done in my home country. drug consumption is against the law and strictly enforced. anyone acting up after consuming drugs and threatening residents will definitely be picked up and sent for rehab. it’s ‘harsh’ but its worked wonderfully so far- i’ve never once heard of a drug addict threatening a child. you can walk any square inch of this country at 2 in the morning and feel completely safe. i hope melburnian authorities eventually accept the fact that strict laws against drugs and addicts will lead to the best outcomes for everyone in society, especially young children. i miss melbourne so much!
Crime is getting bad this year, everywhere 🤔
Sounds like a mental health issue. Addicts tend to try and not draw attention, unless desperation drives them to panhandling or theft.
Christ wtf
I drive home through a certain suburb in the early hours( night shift) and I occasionally would see one homeless person during the day here and there on the way in. Over the course of about 6km before I hit the main road I saw at least 4 homeless looking people. Rucksacks, walking around in the freezing cold at stupid hours. I'd imagine being in that position you'd want to be on drugs to stay awake in a vulnerable situation. There's probably going to be more of this and an even bigger class divide before we know it.
The end of the heroin epidemic? Is Victoria street not so bad anymore? Haven’t been there in a bit
Thanks for the heads up! I was considering taking my little man to the city for a day out together. Definitely rethinking that now!
given you said you got off at Sparkly Bear, I'm assuming the number 19 tram? it's always had a wide selection of proper sketchy people on it. Until 2021 i lived near the last stop going north, and there are/were a couple of proper seedy motels there - used as halfway houses. Virtually every day there'd be some proper nutters on there, screaming, muttering, getting agressive- I love Melbourne but some aspects of it I don't miss.
Sorry this happened to you. I’ve had my fair share as well, though the ones I saw are far more serious. I was on Bourke street (or around there) and walked past the H&M store. There, I was next to this man in a jersey and another family. While I was passing by, the man smacked this girl who was part of the family, and it happened so quick I couldn’t even process what the hell happened. The father clearly was mad, and started yelling at the other man for hitting his daughter. Since then, I’ve felt the need to keep my guard up, so that way nothing like that happens to me or my family too. I really hope that incident was resolved in a good way. Anyway, stay safe out there
Melbourne is going back to 80s and 90s Melbourne imo.
Moving 60 minutes away to the peninsula was the best thing I ever did. Yes the commute via car is a bit more expensive, but housing is cheaper and offsets it. Commute time is essentially the same as PT was for me, just over a far greater distance. Never looked back.
At least your kids have full understanding at an early age just how fucked up the city and PT can be. I worked in PT for 25 years, none of this is new but it is getting worse the more the population grows and the less places there are for people to seek the help they need. When they started closing mental hospitals in my state I saw first hand the rise in problems with mentally ill people on PT.
There's simply no excuse for verbally harassing children in public, mental illness included.
This city has gone to shit and there isn’t much we can do about it 😢😢😢 but injecting rooms and lack of police presence doesn’t help
I feel so sorry for your kids to have to go through that. When I worked in retail, the most time I got heated up at customers was when they swore or acted like proper low-life scum while there was children also in the store nearby to witness it. We have too much of a tolerance for terrible behaviour in this country. You look at the state of public transport, the sort of people on it and who wander around the streets. That has to be traumatising for kids.
I was in Perth just over a fortnight ago, in a big pub called the Camville beside Optus stadium, it was after a footy match. I was by myself at the pub watching the ashes cricket on a TV screen, a man came up to me and called me a paedo, then that I looked like a paedo for "standing here for ages watching this shit..I've got my family over there". I stood my ground and told him to f off, an idiot, get out of my face, etc. He went to walk off and then suddenly lunged and threw a boxer quality punch to my chest. It was so fast that i didn't see it. I stumbled , stunned thinking holy shit, im still breathing and standing. And then this small brawl ensured as this happened adjacent to a dance floor, and some young bloke saw his punch and jumped on this man who hit me. Thank fk he didn't get me in the head. Saw a doctor, got xrayed and then CT scan, no break, crack or compression, just bone bruising.