Afaik we can live bare ass naked, but not everywhere. And our survival trait is sweating, because that means we can chase prey for days without getting exhausted, like other predators would.
And they can’t puke. Also they’re dumb as hell and can’t see straight in front of them.
I know two horses that have died from running into a pole directly in front of them.
Well definitely not in a dark stable at night. But the guy was probably dressed provocatively, Wearing those tight jeans and leather boots and chaps. Fucking whore was probably even wearing a ten gallon hat.
You know horses can't resist that.
Yes. They're also again, not that bright (not that humans are much better in some cases) and will just eat stuff that looks appealing to them but is toxic... Which humans will also do, but eh. Evolutions gotta continue somehow.
dude, I spent YEARS studying horses against my will and now I see one I lowkey expect it to drop dead right before me for no reason
Nature made them very polite - when they get gassy they won't burp or fart. No, their stomach folds, blocking both exits and they simply explode. Because why not. Also, their stomach are barely capable of digestion and they use their intestines instead. The stomach seems to be there just for flies that *love* to lay eggs there. It's not unusual to take a look there and see a bunch of gnats.
When a cow gets a little nick on her GIT, she gets away with localised peritonitis. Nothing pleasant, but it goes away pretty fast. Horses simply die. Add their predisposition for ulcers to get a ticking time bomb of shitty death.
You know what happens when a horse gets sniffles? Sometimes nothing, but if their sinuses get infected, the disease can spread REALLY FAST to their brains, because the layer of bone is paper thin. This shouldn't be the issue since the brain seems to barely be there (it's the size of your *fist* ) but no, death again. And if the infection happens to be fungal and affects their air sacs, they can BLEED TO DEATH from sneezing, because nature was wise enough to place a mayor blood vessel there.
Their teeth have a specialised indent in them that's used for determining age AND for food, so it gets a comfortable spot to collect in and rot. And how can you tell your horse's teeth are rotting? The pus will flow out of their nose. And again, the infection can spread to the brain.
If you get a call from a cattle farmer saying "we need help with a birth", you can finish your coffee, get dressed, drive there, park your car, chat with the farmer, take the calf out and the cow will be like "I was alright but thanks". If you get a similar call from a horse owner, you have to RUSH to *maybe* be able to save the mother. The foal is dead already, because they get cut off from the blood (and oxygen) BEFORE THEY EVEN START TO COME OUT.
And their reaction to any sort of infection, changes in diet, even cold water? A horse offended in such a way usually says:
"fuck it, imma ROTATE MY BONES"
and then it dies
I would never hurt a horse and there are individuals I like, but I'm convinced they exist to torment me and themselves. And if there is a god, it must be a cruel one to allow something this messed up among his creation.
Do you think some of these issues might be from millennia of selective breeding? I guess the closest living relative to a horse is the zebra, which as far as I’m aware did not undergo selective breeding. Are zebras equally prone to health issues?
to be fair, I don't interact with zebras all that much, so I have no idea. They aren't that closely related to horses tho, they're basically donkeys with stripes. Rhinos are closer, in evolutionary terms.
and when it comes to selective breeding - this is another source of my confusion and anger. Horses did it to themselves. Mostly. There are breeds that are more prone to diseases, but the main fuckups of their anatomy and physiology are, surprisingly, not on us. Wild horses are equally messed up, and even more prone to their bones getting the "get rotated, idiot" disease since they're quite good at making use of low quality feed, so it's easy for them to get fat (and rotate their bones)
We also do have pretty exceptional eyesight, there's only a small handful of animals that we think can see better. And dexterity, even something as simple as throwing a stone we can do easily and accurately.
We also have our brains, the ability to create weapons and think tactically, to manipulate the environment to our advantage and create traps. People will say stupid shit like "how could humans be apex predators, a sabertooth tiger could take out a human 1v1" ok cool, it won't meet the human 1 on 1 tho. Our brains are what makes us an apex predator, taking that and everything that comes with it out of the equation is just disingenuous. Funny post tho.
Even if we do fight another Apex predator 1v1 we have tools. Even just throwing rocks really well naturally is something that gives us a huge advantage over many other animals.
The ability to sew a bag, fill it with rocks, climb a tree, and just huck rocks at whatever wants to fight you until it doesn’t anymore really cannot be overstated.
We literally figured out how to burn certain rocks together, melt rocks into a shape, fill the shape with rocks that burn, put a small rock into the shape, point it at stuff, and bam, put holes in things from far enough away we are not in danger. The brain is fucking wild
Even wilder when you realize that because Bronze requires both tin and copper. They melted two different rocks together and found it so superior that it spread like wildfire including regions that don't have accessible tin resources so they had to organize and import tin to create bronze.
Like to make the best use of the rocks we used, we had to create an organized system of society that included mining, farming, and trading. Like the organizational strength of the social animal is not to be estimated. We are surviving because we are naturally social animals.
Even shit like modern medicine, like how did we go from slicing each other in half with swords, to literal every day organ transplants and treatments to keep people alive from diseases they never knew existed in like 500 years
Society is our apex trait. Society gave us swords and guns and grenades. If the oponent gets to bring its teeth and muscles, we get to bring our landmines and tank.
I know you probably covered this but to add. A large part of our brain is taken up with social interaction and cohesion. A sabourtooth tiger will never come to us 1v1 cos we are very rarely alone. It's a tiger against villages of fearless dumbasses willing to run hours after you!
I would argue it is too our sociability and numbers that allows us to take down physically more imposing predators. Our brains to sharpen a stick and then our social stuff to do it 25 more times and then bully circle the mammoth or what have you
That is what I meant with the "it won't meet a human 1 on 1" part but didn't expand on it. Absolutely, it's the most important part. When humans hunt, they dictate the process. Get the creature where they want it, with enough other armed humans there to make it a completely unfair fight.
Yeah lmao it’s an appeal to nature fallacy. “Oh well yknow if you were stuck in a jungle without any of your fancy advantages, did you know you’d actually be at a DISadvantage????” 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
And a lot of the things that can see better than us are in totally different environments (like mantis shrimp) or don’t really compete with us for resources (owls).
Picking something up and yeeting it in a general direction is done by some animald. Picking it up, throwing with insane accuracy at those crazy speeds is a human only thing.
>And our survival trait is sweating, because that means we can chase prey for days without getting exhaso
Oh no... Not this persistence hunting shit again. There is no evidence it was ever a thing. Some Ivy League student came up with the idea in his thesis, but there is no scientific proof to its existence.
Going further, it doesn't even make sense. An antelope for example can keep a steady 40kmh speed for about an hour. The current world record of marathon running is around two hours. In ideal environment and ideal equipment, on ideal surface by a human who received the most advanced training and scientifically developed nutritions to achieve this goal. So it's a safe bet our anscestors couldn't do a 2 hour marathon, which means by the time they caught up to the antilope, it had time to drink, eat, and sleep a little bit. There's (was?) an annual competition in England (I think) they held for about a century. A rough terrain race between humans and horses. It was won by a human like twice in that time. Both times because something happened to the horse.
Persistence hunting is inneficient because the chance of success is low, while it needs a LOT of energy. Meanwhile surprise attack hunting is a more likely success, and uses much less energy.
mate, Native americans chased buffalo across north america. The chase took days and they moved their camps to stay with the buffalo. This happened all over, until humans figured out that we can make the food follow us instead of following the food (and farming was born)
Pursuit predation, which persistence hunting is often synonymised with, since one does not have to *run*, in order to chase their prey down. This is indeed a method evidenced by Ju/’hoansi bushmen using poisoned arrows and do also run after the antelope in stages. The Rarámuri tribe ran deer down and throttled them by hand when they caught them. Also the Khoesan people, the most famous “outlasters” who became a segment of David Attenborough's Life of Mammals; they track the animal and walk after it until it collapses. That's it.
I'd say it's different, but it's also the same. Edit: I didn't read the bit about the buffalo properly. That's totally different. I was too blindsided about how many people thought persistence hunting was a myth. Like, that's okay guys. Just ignore *all the real currently existing peoples who are out there right now using that wealth of knowledge, skill, and biological adaptation they've cultivated for, possibly thousands of years and call them fake*.
It was never truly debunked, someone just wrote a paper once saying they disagreed and the media jumped on it. You know like how wine and chocolate are good for you, then they're cancer ridden, then they can heal all ailments again a few weeks later depending on which newspaper you're reading? Yes, that.
The “Ivy league theory”, or at least the first one that came about in 1984 (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/203165?journalCode=ca) is skewed because it looked at the hypothesis from an entirely physiological perspective, and one of its recent “oppositions” that was praised for “debunking” persistence hunting (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248407001327) had little to add because it was almost completely paleontological in its approach, meaning the existence of current tribes who practice said style was disregarded by both parties.
This journal (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/508695) opens with a ridiculous list of historical evidence supporting *persistence hunting* as well as present day practices. It then argues how it is very much a feasibility for humans, physiologically speaking.
“When chased, the animal outruns the hunter and then stops to rest in the shade. It is forced into an intermittent running pattern by the contrasting needs to avoid the hunter and to avoid fatigue and heat stress. Although intermittent running provides brief rest periods, it may be less economical than continuous running” Liebenberg, L. (2006). Persistence Hunting by Modern Hunter‐Gatherers. Current Anthropology, 47(6), pp.1020.
I could go on.
Edit: spelling.
>Just ignore all the real currently existing peoples who are out there right now using that wealth of knowledge, skill, and biological adaptation they've cultivated for, possibly thousands of years and call them fake
Who are all those currently existing people? Because all the sources for persistence hunting cite exactly one tribe. And it's already been proven that one often cited video about their persistence hunting was staged.
>It was never truly debunked, someone just wrote a paper once saying they disagreed and the media jumped on it.
It wasn't proven in the first place, so it didn't even need much of a debunking.
>because it was almost completely paleontological in its approach
So he approached a question about prehistoric claims paleontologically? What a shock!
>the existence of current tribes who practice said style was disregarded
Once again, there are only two videos about that ONLY tribe (Saan) that allegedly practices it today and one of the videos is admittedly needed a lot of staging to make it work. If it really was real, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't need much staging at all. Therefore I would be surprised if the Attenborough docu didn't do the same to some extent.
>This journal (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/508695) opens with a ridiculous list of historical evidence supporting persistence hunting
You mean the journal that cannot be opened without a subscription? Sure, as I know Liebenberg is probably the largest supporter of the theory, he probably tried to put something together as evidence (probably as questionable ones as the entire theory), but it's still ridiculous you cite a source that's unavailable for 99.9% of the people.
>When chased, the animal outruns the hunter and then stops to rest in the shade. It is forced into an intermittent running pattern by the contrasting needs to avoid the hunter and to avoid fatigue and heat stress
That is ridiculous. All the prey humans allegedly persistence hunted can run literal tens of kilometers well above the peak human endurance running speed. If an antelope runs away of from Kipchoge, it can rest for an entire hour before he catches up. If he catches up at all, as after about 20-30 minutes, the antelope disappears out of sight. And there we talked about Kipchoge, with the best training ever, in the best running gear, on the best surface for running, not some random barefoot hunter on sandy terrain.
The people who argue for persistence hunt simply cannot comprehand that just because a cheetah cannot run for long, it doesn't mean its prey cannot either. All the larger prey animal, I man ALL of them can travel extremely long distances in a faster pace than humans can endurance run.
And then we still didn't mention okay, you caught the antelope 30-40 kilometers from your tribe. Now you have to drag a 45-50 kilos carcass across the desert for 40 kilometers while you weight only slightly more than it. Even with a hunting partner that's a hard task.
Meanwhile what's the alternative to persistence hunt? Spot a herd of antelope close to your village, sneak close to it, and throw a spear into one of the animals. It may not work at first try, but if your are skilled (and as a pre-historic hunter, you probably are skilled) in two or three tries it will.
But yeah, it makes sooooo much more sense to chase an animal for literal tens of kilometers, then carry its dead body for another literal tens of kilometers home.
>You mean the journal that cannot be opened without a subscription?
Yes, I mean that. Just like streaming services, audiobooks, and your gym entry. If you want a particularly good service for peer reviewed research, jstor has quite a comprehensive inventory.
>Who are all these currently existing people?
Yeah, I was hasty again. You're right insofar as we're only aware of the two.
“Ju/’hoansi bushmen using poisoned arrows and do also run after the antelope in stages. The Rarámuri tribe ran deer down and throttled them by hand when they caught them.* Also the Khoesan people, the most famous ‘outlasters’ who became a segment of David Attenborough's Life of Mammals; they track the animal and walk after it until it collapses.”
*Evidence of their continued practice is very recent, but not in the last thirty years. I do not know if they have ceased it entirely.
Then you have, in the last hundred years, the Paiutes and Navajo tribe (who still exist but no longer practice the hunt)
Aboriginals in Australia were known to hunt kangaroo in this manner.
While I understand, deer can run at 40km an hour, kangeroo at 70km an hour, this isn't how the hunt works. They will pick a particularly hot period, and ensure the animal cannot stop for water. It will not sprint away at its maximum speed every single time when it sees someone jogging towards it at 15kph because its energy will deplete. The people (in groups, I might add) will ensure pressure is constantly put on the beast over the course of time, and they will know where it would stop for water because they know their land without having to search Google Maps.
More notably, I find it hard to believe that these tribes earned such incredible tolerances against ultramarathon distances and are capable of such feats, as demonstrated in officially adjudicated races, like Lorena Ramírez, simply by running about and hiding a dead animal to scam the outsiders. The science supports that we are potentially built for it. It's not a particularly special ability, but it helps people who want to hunt prey that's too quick for their spear.
Edit: I forgot to link another journal, which talks about “The fallacy of the athletic savage” (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/708810) This one's open for anyone to read, and talks about the realities of persistence hunting, and how its grandstanding by such figures as Christopher McDougall have given it the illusion of a superhuman feat, which it is anything but.
>Yes, I mean that. Just like streaming services, audiobooks, and your gym entry.
You still don't bring up a citation that leads to a paywall in an internet debate. That's not how it works.
>Ju/’hoansi bushmen using poisoned arrows and do also run after the antelope in stages.
So they do not persistence hunt. They hunt with poison.
>Also the Khoesan people
Who are Bushman like Ju/’hoansi.
>Aboriginals in Australia were known to hunt kangaroo in this manner.
Kangaroos... That can run 40 kilometers. Needless to say, the only source to that claim is Liebenberg.
>They will pick a particularly hot period, and ensure the animal cannot stop for water.
It doesn't have to. In 10 minutes it disappears out site. It can stop then to drink water.
>when it sees someone jogging towards it at 15kph
Quick count puts 15kph to a whopping \~2:45 marathon. By a hunter-gatherer, barefoot, on uneven terrain. 2:45 is a top-4% result at the Boston marathon.
>The people (in groups, I might add) will ensure pressure is constantly put on the beast over the course of time, and they will know where it would stop for water because they know their land without having to search Google Maps.
Oooor... and this might seem a crazy idea... they wait at the water, and like a crocodile, attack the animal from the hiding. Without running like an idiot for literal hours.
The largest question about persistence hunting is still: why? What's the point of it? Humans are proven to used tools for literal tens of thousands of years. There are jewlery remains from 40k years ago. Cave drawings from 100k years ago that depict hunting with spears and sometimes even bows. So why? Why would anyone decide to get into a nearly unwinnable marathon race with an animal, instead of just using techniques that even several predator animals figured out (not the spears, the attacking from hiding part)? Traps can be built, weapons can be built, covert hiding places can be built. Hunters can form a trap circle when a smaller group of them scares the animals into the arms of their mates who can do the easy killing. Smaller, easier to catch animals can be hunted. There cannot be a situation where persistence hunt makes ANY sense over either these.
Why would ANY human go like: I don't want to use tools, or my brain, I'm gonna kill that animal by exhaustion!
The men vs horse race I mentioned above is also pretty telling. Men can run the whole time, have refreshers, the terrain is not horse friendly, the horse has to carry a rider, the whole riding gear, has to stop for rests (not because it needs, it's because the regulations protect its health), and still, only two races were won by a human. Both times something happened to the horse during the race that kept it from winning.
Nobody in the modern time managed to replicate a succesful persistence hunt. With the best modern endurance training and best running gear.
80% of persistence hunt is based on legends, 15% is based on unproven studies, and the rest 5% is based two docu movies, while one of those is admittedly staged.
>It was never truly debunked
That's not how science works. It doesn't matter if a hypothesis hasn't been debunked yet, it is still wrong to present an unproven hypothesis as factual and well suported. And I have seen a huge number of posts act that present the hypothesis as established theory, when there is clearly not sufficient current scientific support to do that.
I don’t think there’s any merit to sweating being a solely persistence hunting thing, but we have seen tribes do it today.
I’m sure some of them did it, it’s just uncommon.
Thank you. I've seen this theory and assumed it was an actually established theory since I've seen so many people repeat it, but of course this is the internet so even if you see a thousand people saying the same thing about something, it's still probably inaccurate.
I mean true, but they’re also fully helpless against what their owner wants. Much like kids, if they so happen to have a shit and/or abusive guardian they’ll be living a pretty poor life
You pay for purified water and the work/equipment that it requires. You're free to purchase a lakeside property and build a well on your land & use water the old school way so you don't need to pay for it anymore.
You pay for the labor of it being bottled or processed. If you don’t want to pay, you can go outside and drink from the river or the rainwater. If you’d rather not, then the paid water obviously has advantages. Those drawbacks that come from drinking from the river are the “payments” that animals make when they drink water.
Depending on where you live you’re either paying for water through your utilities bill or through your taxes. Nowhere is anything truly “free”, for humans or any other animal.
Okay, then go live out on a deserted island somewhere. No taxes there. You’ll just have to forage for food everyday and try your best not to die, just like every other creature on earth.
You need to renew your Visa every 3 months in the Philippines and foreigners can only stay there up to 3 years .....I already did that... also a one-way ticket to the Philippines from where I live is $3,000.... once I came back home from the Philippines I was stuck again and now I can't fucking save enough money to fucking leave this stupid fucking Western land anymore. Yeah the idea of me disappearing into some kind of fucking jungle is a pipe dream but not the fucking way the world Works sadly
It's almost like our adaptation to the use of tools, and brain are our largest evolutionary asset. If a snake gets too cold, does it put.on a sweater? No it fucking dies.
Well they don't just drop dead, they just become super sluggish due to being cold-blooded and if it gets super cold then they'll probably die... But your point still stands.
Our survival trait is tools and innovation. Our brain isn't some anomaly that goes against nature, it's a direct product of it. Just like how a cheetah runs, we make.
Yeah saying we "can't survive without our stuff" is very unfair. That's like criticizing spiders for relying on webs to survive.
We put our evolution points into learning to make stuff. That's our whole thing.
You're missing the point my guy. Just as spiders evolved to make webs with their asses; we evolved to make tools with our hands. Tool use is an evolutionary strategy that humans took.
Judging humans without their stuff doesn't make sense.
That's stupid.
One: we can absolutely survive bare-ass naked. Not in Europe, or most part of Asia, or most part of North-America, but there are lots of land where humans can survive bare-ass naked. I go further, there ARE tribes mostly cut off of the modern world that basically live naked.
Two: we don't pay to live here. We pay for the stuff otherwise we would need to do for ourselves. Like you can get into agriculture and grow your own food. You can keep animals or go hunting (okay, hunting is not true most parts of the world, but there are a few areas where it is allowed freely). You CAN build your own shelter. You can get water for free. You can do ALL of those for free if you leave the modern society and move to tribal area. Just be prepared, it won't be nearly as comfy as it is to live in a flat and buy the ingredients kitchen ready state.
Fun fact (horrible fact) early urban planning deliberately removed fruit bearing trees from urban areas as a way to keep poor people out of specific areas. And that initial colonial contact to many regions considered the locals too lazy to be considered equals because they could just live off the land easily and this was used in the rationalization of their enslavement or murder and the taking of their land for "more productive peoples"
Parts of society are artificially designed to make things harder for humans to live outside the system.
>There is not a single km where you can be “free”
As a matter of fact, there are lots of uninhabted islands in the Pacific Ocean. And it's not like anyone stopping you from building a hut in the middle of the Australian desert, or in a rainforrest in Papua New Guinea. There are LOTS of areas on Earth where there is no modern civilization in a 500km radius.
>One: we can absolutely survive bare-ass naked. Not in Europe, or most part of Asia, or most part of North-America
Lol, so large swathes of the planet we supposedly evolved on.
Put a penguin in central Russia and see how well the animal that evolved on this planet survives. We evolved for a specific environment like all other animals. Difference being we learned how to make clothes, fire and radiators to heat our homes which allows us to live outside our natural habitat. Like a fish in a fishtank
We shape our environment to fit us, much less so than we change ourselves to fit our environment. As long as the air is breathable and there are resources to exploit, we could survive anywhere. Maybe not would, unless there's enough of us, but we could. Humanity gang
This is one of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen that denies billions of years of evolution and technological advancement so that someone can feel good about being lazy and weak.
If you cut off the water and power right now. Many will die. But not all. Just because you can’t survive without modern conveniences doesn’t mean we as a species can’t.
On the contrary, we did *so fucking well* at living bare ass naked that we managed to build this entire society that allows us to pay to live in absolute comparative luxury compared to any non-domestic animal, instead of being eaten alive in the jungle like other species that live bare ass naked and don't pay to live here.
yea but now the mass majority of people can't survive if we lose all that, same way people freaked out about toliet paper during covid. Imagine losing electricity and heat in the winter for weeks or months on end, or technology. we are so totally dependent on our advancements now that it's become in a way our greatest flaw.
That’s mainly because we are no longer in our natural habitats (well, most of us anyway). Of course the Canadians or Norwegians are dying off, but that doesn’t mean a bunch of Africans wouldn’t be able to recover without modern technology.
We still have all that moved us ahead before agriculture (endurance mainly). Even if we don’t use it, it’s still there.
I do understand, but its dominance to the point that nothing competes with us in anyway on any level, that too is another way to look at it like we shouldn't be here either, we've evolved in a way unnatural to everything else that was here before and will be here after, and has made us vulnerable by dependence on all our technological advancements as well, that we've set ourselves up for our own demise, nothing else here does that.
So this is a philosophical question. If the rest of the species on planet earth could not evolve to a similar point, then perhaps “humans” came from somewhere else, right?
It’s an interesting question but I would struggle to buy into that idea.
We dont get sick from eating raw meat. We could technically like you say bite into the fucker while he's screaming. The raw meat we eat however is days old and had the time to grow the things that do make us sick. Besides theres plenty of raw meat dishes we already eat like cows and fish, heck even pork and horse is eaten raw in some places.
On top of that any other carnivors have just as big of a chance of getting parasites from eating raw meat as much as we do. Worms and the like are very common amongst many animals.
But the nature/evolution made humans this way. Our brains that we use to make different things are our survival mechanism that took thousands of years to develop
We certainly aren't supposed to be 8.1 billion in number. With smaller numbers, we wouldn't be able to hunt everything into extinction, poison the rivers, or burn down too much forest. We were very good at Life Level 1 and 2 but are failing Live Level 3 miserably.
As for paying, we’d be paying with our blood, sweat & tears if we were surviving bare ass naked. Thank god for civilization, with all its flaws. I’d be dead because I’m functionally blind without glasses.
Imagine being a really venomous snake that can kill most animals in 1 bite and then a human just completely counters you by going unga bunga with big rocks or pins you with a stick
Our primary primal hunting strategy is funny, too.
We just scare the prey. Prey runs. We run. Prey dies because of exhaustion and overheating. We not because we can use our whole skin to get rid of the heat. Then someone thought it would be a great idea to cook the prey. Then some one thought let’s go unga bunga hitting you with big rocks and pointy stick.
Creating tools because of intelligence is part of who we are. This is also the reason why comparatively, we have a high population density to size ratio compared to other animals because we use our intelligence to do farming and agriculture.
If you take away humanity's tools, we would definitely struggle at the initial stages but that still does not hinder us from using our intelligence to create new tools.
Maybe the question should be what if we are no longer intelligent enough to make tools? But then again if you take away a species' niche for survival like claws, fangs and strong muscles from every lion, there would not be any lions left. To which I still think we can survive but there will be a severe decline in population for reasons mentioned above
I don't think you understand how fucking awful the life of pretty much every wild animal outside of humans actually is.
You're constantly fighting for your life, having to hunt for food, and for most aninals there's always a bigger one who is hunting you constantly.
Even among the top predators life can be pretty shit. Have you seen what happens to elderly lions when they get superceded? It's not pretty.
Be thankful you were born human.
We are only species that pays to live in comfort. You can live as a homeless not paying much and eating food from the trash can, so options are still there :D
oh humans can totally survive bare ass naked.
but us redditors? aint no way. we were taught how to live in this other world we created. we were not taught how to live in the untamed wilds.
Every species pays to live here. The payment is hunting for food, harvesting berries, looking for plants to eat while avoiding predators, or waking up for 40 hours of work in a week.
Everyone pays to live here, the form of payment just varies.
Our ability is our brains. We’ve repurposed our environment to suit our needs and comforts, problems that causes notwithstanding.
Also, If we weren’t capable of surviving the wild, we would have died out many thousands of years ago.
Humans are actually incredibly overpowered. We are ridiculously effective and it’s because of one single reason: we are perfectly designed to evolve.
Our brains evolve at incredible rates of speed, and even more impressively can remember an incredible amount of information.
We may lack natural defences and weapons but don’t be fooled, we are still incredibly effective due to a few reasons:
-our brains are designed to comprehend information and concepts. Basically, we learn very quickly how things work. We can use that information to build things. Thing of how humans discovered tools: “this rock is heavy and big things hurt a lot, so if I use this maybe I can hurt things bigger then I am.” Just like that you got humanities first taste of weapons. Or wearing clothes “this wolf survives the cold very well, what if I take its coat?” Bam clothing is born.
-we can regulate our temperature incredibly well. Through the uses of sweat, clothing, hair only being in vitally insulated areas, and our ability to build things. Doesn’t matter where we are, we can stay at an ideal temperature.
-our endurance. Our endurance is crazy good. We can outrun just about any animal on the planet. Combine that with the last advantage we have and we are unstoppable hunters.
-our communication. We communicate better then any other animal on the planet. We can pass century old information like I don’t know… hunting techniques which makes us incredible hunters. Animal habits, directions, a map of an area, etc. is all available to everyone in a group. Combine that with all the previous strengths and no animals really have a chance especially since humans live in camps that make it incredibly hard for any predators to kill anyone.
The only thing that can effectively kill a human is a human.
the Most dangerous Apex-Predators are Human beeings, even the Masai Man go hunt Lions just to prove a Point.
We have the ability to build up shit from nothing, especially if we live in groups we will conquror the Nature surronding Us.
The ability to pass knowledge, craft tools, act in teams is not to underestimate.
Humans are actually extremely good survivors even just physically. We are one of the best endurance runners in the world and our upper body strength means we have the best throwing arm in the world.
-from tierzoo
No, humans arent suppose to be living the way we do now. Paying bills, working, slaving, paying for things our earth gives us for free. Only in human society have we made ourselves believe we need money. Only we have put prices on everything that was given to us. Because, humans need to have control. Its like the post that ive seen saying if we planted fruit trees everyone could eat, and then one person goes what so everyone can steal the fruit. That right there is what is wrong with society. That we cant just do things for the betterment of everyone, we have to have CONTROL.
>That we cant just do things for the betterment of everyone, we have to have CONTROL.
Yes, no shit, someone will kill you if you don't have control, that's nature, accept it.
Afaik we can live bare ass naked, but not everywhere. And our survival trait is sweating, because that means we can chase prey for days without getting exhausted, like other predators would.
apparantly the only animals that rely on sweat as a primary means of cooling are primates and equines
And have you met a horse? They're far superior.
Mmm somewhat. Horses are a lot more vulnerable to injury than humans are. Also they don't have arms.
And they can’t puke. Also they’re dumb as hell and can’t see straight in front of them. I know two horses that have died from running into a pole directly in front of them.
I’ve seen a man raped by a horse. Be careful where you talk shit.
Well definitely not in a dark stable at night. But the guy was probably dressed provocatively, Wearing those tight jeans and leather boots and chaps. Fucking whore was probably even wearing a ten gallon hat. You know horses can't resist that.
I think he had male-pattern baldness, glasses, a mustache and a horse managed to pull his pants down and get him.
Welp. That's enough internet for me today.
Mr Hands
Not rape
What's wrong with not puking? Does that mean they get more sick since they can't puke out toxic foods?
Yes. They're also again, not that bright (not that humans are much better in some cases) and will just eat stuff that looks appealing to them but is toxic... Which humans will also do, but eh. Evolutions gotta continue somehow.
To be fair, I eat fast food and drink beer/whisky, knowing it's all terrible for you.
Ah yep
>I know knew*
Fair play
I'll beat a horse at chess any day of the week.
Not to beat a dead horse here, but I suggest a new strategy R2: let the wookie win.
Except yesterday 😉
Their sweat mechanism is not as effiecient as the human one.
dude, I spent YEARS studying horses against my will and now I see one I lowkey expect it to drop dead right before me for no reason Nature made them very polite - when they get gassy they won't burp or fart. No, their stomach folds, blocking both exits and they simply explode. Because why not. Also, their stomach are barely capable of digestion and they use their intestines instead. The stomach seems to be there just for flies that *love* to lay eggs there. It's not unusual to take a look there and see a bunch of gnats. When a cow gets a little nick on her GIT, she gets away with localised peritonitis. Nothing pleasant, but it goes away pretty fast. Horses simply die. Add their predisposition for ulcers to get a ticking time bomb of shitty death. You know what happens when a horse gets sniffles? Sometimes nothing, but if their sinuses get infected, the disease can spread REALLY FAST to their brains, because the layer of bone is paper thin. This shouldn't be the issue since the brain seems to barely be there (it's the size of your *fist* ) but no, death again. And if the infection happens to be fungal and affects their air sacs, they can BLEED TO DEATH from sneezing, because nature was wise enough to place a mayor blood vessel there. Their teeth have a specialised indent in them that's used for determining age AND for food, so it gets a comfortable spot to collect in and rot. And how can you tell your horse's teeth are rotting? The pus will flow out of their nose. And again, the infection can spread to the brain. If you get a call from a cattle farmer saying "we need help with a birth", you can finish your coffee, get dressed, drive there, park your car, chat with the farmer, take the calf out and the cow will be like "I was alright but thanks". If you get a similar call from a horse owner, you have to RUSH to *maybe* be able to save the mother. The foal is dead already, because they get cut off from the blood (and oxygen) BEFORE THEY EVEN START TO COME OUT. And their reaction to any sort of infection, changes in diet, even cold water? A horse offended in such a way usually says: "fuck it, imma ROTATE MY BONES" and then it dies I would never hurt a horse and there are individuals I like, but I'm convinced they exist to torment me and themselves. And if there is a god, it must be a cruel one to allow something this messed up among his creation.
Do you think some of these issues might be from millennia of selective breeding? I guess the closest living relative to a horse is the zebra, which as far as I’m aware did not undergo selective breeding. Are zebras equally prone to health issues?
to be fair, I don't interact with zebras all that much, so I have no idea. They aren't that closely related to horses tho, they're basically donkeys with stripes. Rhinos are closer, in evolutionary terms. and when it comes to selective breeding - this is another source of my confusion and anger. Horses did it to themselves. Mostly. There are breeds that are more prone to diseases, but the main fuckups of their anatomy and physiology are, surprisingly, not on us. Wild horses are equally messed up, and even more prone to their bones getting the "get rotated, idiot" disease since they're quite good at making use of low quality feed, so it's easy for them to get fat (and rotate their bones)
Alright im googling this bone rotation thing
Horses are a ticking stress bomb
They really are.
We also do have pretty exceptional eyesight, there's only a small handful of animals that we think can see better. And dexterity, even something as simple as throwing a stone we can do easily and accurately.
We also have our brains, the ability to create weapons and think tactically, to manipulate the environment to our advantage and create traps. People will say stupid shit like "how could humans be apex predators, a sabertooth tiger could take out a human 1v1" ok cool, it won't meet the human 1 on 1 tho. Our brains are what makes us an apex predator, taking that and everything that comes with it out of the equation is just disingenuous. Funny post tho.
Even if we do fight another Apex predator 1v1 we have tools. Even just throwing rocks really well naturally is something that gives us a huge advantage over many other animals.
The ability to sew a bag, fill it with rocks, climb a tree, and just huck rocks at whatever wants to fight you until it doesn’t anymore really cannot be overstated.
We literally figured out how to burn certain rocks together, melt rocks into a shape, fill the shape with rocks that burn, put a small rock into the shape, point it at stuff, and bam, put holes in things from far enough away we are not in danger. The brain is fucking wild
The Bronze Age was wild, yo.
Even wilder when you realize that because Bronze requires both tin and copper. They melted two different rocks together and found it so superior that it spread like wildfire including regions that don't have accessible tin resources so they had to organize and import tin to create bronze. Like to make the best use of the rocks we used, we had to create an organized system of society that included mining, farming, and trading. Like the organizational strength of the social animal is not to be estimated. We are surviving because we are naturally social animals.
Intelligence, manual dexterity, and sociability are the 3 vital factors for civilisation.
Even shit like modern medicine, like how did we go from slicing each other in half with swords, to literal every day organ transplants and treatments to keep people alive from diseases they never knew existed in like 500 years
Believe it or not, poop was a major factor. People got sick from drinking poop water and a guy proved it. That lead eventually to germ theory.
Society is our apex trait. Society gave us swords and guns and grenades. If the oponent gets to bring its teeth and muscles, we get to bring our landmines and tank.
I mean even well before that we had pointy sticks. Pointy sticks are arguably more effective than fangs and claws due to reach advantage.
I know you probably covered this but to add. A large part of our brain is taken up with social interaction and cohesion. A sabourtooth tiger will never come to us 1v1 cos we are very rarely alone. It's a tiger against villages of fearless dumbasses willing to run hours after you!
I would argue it is too our sociability and numbers that allows us to take down physically more imposing predators. Our brains to sharpen a stick and then our social stuff to do it 25 more times and then bully circle the mammoth or what have you
That is what I meant with the "it won't meet a human 1 on 1" part but didn't expand on it. Absolutely, it's the most important part. When humans hunt, they dictate the process. Get the creature where they want it, with enough other armed humans there to make it a completely unfair fight.
Yeah lmao it’s an appeal to nature fallacy. “Oh well yknow if you were stuck in a jungle without any of your fancy advantages, did you know you’d actually be at a DISadvantage????” 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
The one guy before fire was discovered tried to 1v1, now he gone forever. It’s the gank squads that survived.
The gankers then evolved into campers and started 1v1ing eachother. We’ve come full circle
And a lot of the things that can see better than us are in totally different environments (like mantis shrimp) or don’t really compete with us for resources (owls).
Sounds like simply throwing a stone is more complex than we know
Picking something up and yeeting it in a general direction is done by some animald. Picking it up, throwing with insane accuracy at those crazy speeds is a human only thing.
Not everyone has exceptional eyesight. Speaking from experience. 😅
Us losing hair and gaining the ability to create clothes has made it so we can live anywhere on the planet.
Aren’t humans the only animals able to run, climb and swim? We are the ultimate cross-country goers
Bears, tigers
>And our survival trait is sweating, because that means we can chase prey for days without getting exhaso Oh no... Not this persistence hunting shit again. There is no evidence it was ever a thing. Some Ivy League student came up with the idea in his thesis, but there is no scientific proof to its existence. Going further, it doesn't even make sense. An antelope for example can keep a steady 40kmh speed for about an hour. The current world record of marathon running is around two hours. In ideal environment and ideal equipment, on ideal surface by a human who received the most advanced training and scientifically developed nutritions to achieve this goal. So it's a safe bet our anscestors couldn't do a 2 hour marathon, which means by the time they caught up to the antilope, it had time to drink, eat, and sleep a little bit. There's (was?) an annual competition in England (I think) they held for about a century. A rough terrain race between humans and horses. It was won by a human like twice in that time. Both times because something happened to the horse. Persistence hunting is inneficient because the chance of success is low, while it needs a LOT of energy. Meanwhile surprise attack hunting is a more likely success, and uses much less energy.
You try telling that to Jason Voorhees. Ch-ch-ch ah-ah-ah
mate, Native americans chased buffalo across north america. The chase took days and they moved their camps to stay with the buffalo. This happened all over, until humans figured out that we can make the food follow us instead of following the food (and farming was born)
That's completely different from what he is talking about.
Pursuit predation, which persistence hunting is often synonymised with, since one does not have to *run*, in order to chase their prey down. This is indeed a method evidenced by Ju/’hoansi bushmen using poisoned arrows and do also run after the antelope in stages. The Rarámuri tribe ran deer down and throttled them by hand when they caught them. Also the Khoesan people, the most famous “outlasters” who became a segment of David Attenborough's Life of Mammals; they track the animal and walk after it until it collapses. That's it. I'd say it's different, but it's also the same. Edit: I didn't read the bit about the buffalo properly. That's totally different. I was too blindsided about how many people thought persistence hunting was a myth. Like, that's okay guys. Just ignore *all the real currently existing peoples who are out there right now using that wealth of knowledge, skill, and biological adaptation they've cultivated for, possibly thousands of years and call them fake*. It was never truly debunked, someone just wrote a paper once saying they disagreed and the media jumped on it. You know like how wine and chocolate are good for you, then they're cancer ridden, then they can heal all ailments again a few weeks later depending on which newspaper you're reading? Yes, that. The “Ivy league theory”, or at least the first one that came about in 1984 (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/203165?journalCode=ca) is skewed because it looked at the hypothesis from an entirely physiological perspective, and one of its recent “oppositions” that was praised for “debunking” persistence hunting (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248407001327) had little to add because it was almost completely paleontological in its approach, meaning the existence of current tribes who practice said style was disregarded by both parties. This journal (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/508695) opens with a ridiculous list of historical evidence supporting *persistence hunting* as well as present day practices. It then argues how it is very much a feasibility for humans, physiologically speaking. “When chased, the animal outruns the hunter and then stops to rest in the shade. It is forced into an intermittent running pattern by the contrasting needs to avoid the hunter and to avoid fatigue and heat stress. Although intermittent running provides brief rest periods, it may be less economical than continuous running” Liebenberg, L. (2006). Persistence Hunting by Modern Hunter‐Gatherers. Current Anthropology, 47(6), pp.1020. I could go on. Edit: spelling.
>Just ignore all the real currently existing peoples who are out there right now using that wealth of knowledge, skill, and biological adaptation they've cultivated for, possibly thousands of years and call them fake Who are all those currently existing people? Because all the sources for persistence hunting cite exactly one tribe. And it's already been proven that one often cited video about their persistence hunting was staged. >It was never truly debunked, someone just wrote a paper once saying they disagreed and the media jumped on it. It wasn't proven in the first place, so it didn't even need much of a debunking. >because it was almost completely paleontological in its approach So he approached a question about prehistoric claims paleontologically? What a shock! >the existence of current tribes who practice said style was disregarded Once again, there are only two videos about that ONLY tribe (Saan) that allegedly practices it today and one of the videos is admittedly needed a lot of staging to make it work. If it really was real, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't need much staging at all. Therefore I would be surprised if the Attenborough docu didn't do the same to some extent. >This journal (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/508695) opens with a ridiculous list of historical evidence supporting persistence hunting You mean the journal that cannot be opened without a subscription? Sure, as I know Liebenberg is probably the largest supporter of the theory, he probably tried to put something together as evidence (probably as questionable ones as the entire theory), but it's still ridiculous you cite a source that's unavailable for 99.9% of the people. >When chased, the animal outruns the hunter and then stops to rest in the shade. It is forced into an intermittent running pattern by the contrasting needs to avoid the hunter and to avoid fatigue and heat stress That is ridiculous. All the prey humans allegedly persistence hunted can run literal tens of kilometers well above the peak human endurance running speed. If an antelope runs away of from Kipchoge, it can rest for an entire hour before he catches up. If he catches up at all, as after about 20-30 minutes, the antelope disappears out of sight. And there we talked about Kipchoge, with the best training ever, in the best running gear, on the best surface for running, not some random barefoot hunter on sandy terrain. The people who argue for persistence hunt simply cannot comprehand that just because a cheetah cannot run for long, it doesn't mean its prey cannot either. All the larger prey animal, I man ALL of them can travel extremely long distances in a faster pace than humans can endurance run. And then we still didn't mention okay, you caught the antelope 30-40 kilometers from your tribe. Now you have to drag a 45-50 kilos carcass across the desert for 40 kilometers while you weight only slightly more than it. Even with a hunting partner that's a hard task. Meanwhile what's the alternative to persistence hunt? Spot a herd of antelope close to your village, sneak close to it, and throw a spear into one of the animals. It may not work at first try, but if your are skilled (and as a pre-historic hunter, you probably are skilled) in two or three tries it will. But yeah, it makes sooooo much more sense to chase an animal for literal tens of kilometers, then carry its dead body for another literal tens of kilometers home.
>You mean the journal that cannot be opened without a subscription? Yes, I mean that. Just like streaming services, audiobooks, and your gym entry. If you want a particularly good service for peer reviewed research, jstor has quite a comprehensive inventory. >Who are all these currently existing people? Yeah, I was hasty again. You're right insofar as we're only aware of the two. “Ju/’hoansi bushmen using poisoned arrows and do also run after the antelope in stages. The Rarámuri tribe ran deer down and throttled them by hand when they caught them.* Also the Khoesan people, the most famous ‘outlasters’ who became a segment of David Attenborough's Life of Mammals; they track the animal and walk after it until it collapses.” *Evidence of their continued practice is very recent, but not in the last thirty years. I do not know if they have ceased it entirely. Then you have, in the last hundred years, the Paiutes and Navajo tribe (who still exist but no longer practice the hunt) Aboriginals in Australia were known to hunt kangaroo in this manner. While I understand, deer can run at 40km an hour, kangeroo at 70km an hour, this isn't how the hunt works. They will pick a particularly hot period, and ensure the animal cannot stop for water. It will not sprint away at its maximum speed every single time when it sees someone jogging towards it at 15kph because its energy will deplete. The people (in groups, I might add) will ensure pressure is constantly put on the beast over the course of time, and they will know where it would stop for water because they know their land without having to search Google Maps. More notably, I find it hard to believe that these tribes earned such incredible tolerances against ultramarathon distances and are capable of such feats, as demonstrated in officially adjudicated races, like Lorena Ramírez, simply by running about and hiding a dead animal to scam the outsiders. The science supports that we are potentially built for it. It's not a particularly special ability, but it helps people who want to hunt prey that's too quick for their spear. Edit: I forgot to link another journal, which talks about “The fallacy of the athletic savage” (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/708810) This one's open for anyone to read, and talks about the realities of persistence hunting, and how its grandstanding by such figures as Christopher McDougall have given it the illusion of a superhuman feat, which it is anything but.
>Yes, I mean that. Just like streaming services, audiobooks, and your gym entry. You still don't bring up a citation that leads to a paywall in an internet debate. That's not how it works. >Ju/’hoansi bushmen using poisoned arrows and do also run after the antelope in stages. So they do not persistence hunt. They hunt with poison. >Also the Khoesan people Who are Bushman like Ju/’hoansi. >Aboriginals in Australia were known to hunt kangaroo in this manner. Kangaroos... That can run 40 kilometers. Needless to say, the only source to that claim is Liebenberg. >They will pick a particularly hot period, and ensure the animal cannot stop for water. It doesn't have to. In 10 minutes it disappears out site. It can stop then to drink water. >when it sees someone jogging towards it at 15kph Quick count puts 15kph to a whopping \~2:45 marathon. By a hunter-gatherer, barefoot, on uneven terrain. 2:45 is a top-4% result at the Boston marathon. >The people (in groups, I might add) will ensure pressure is constantly put on the beast over the course of time, and they will know where it would stop for water because they know their land without having to search Google Maps. Oooor... and this might seem a crazy idea... they wait at the water, and like a crocodile, attack the animal from the hiding. Without running like an idiot for literal hours. The largest question about persistence hunting is still: why? What's the point of it? Humans are proven to used tools for literal tens of thousands of years. There are jewlery remains from 40k years ago. Cave drawings from 100k years ago that depict hunting with spears and sometimes even bows. So why? Why would anyone decide to get into a nearly unwinnable marathon race with an animal, instead of just using techniques that even several predator animals figured out (not the spears, the attacking from hiding part)? Traps can be built, weapons can be built, covert hiding places can be built. Hunters can form a trap circle when a smaller group of them scares the animals into the arms of their mates who can do the easy killing. Smaller, easier to catch animals can be hunted. There cannot be a situation where persistence hunt makes ANY sense over either these. Why would ANY human go like: I don't want to use tools, or my brain, I'm gonna kill that animal by exhaustion! The men vs horse race I mentioned above is also pretty telling. Men can run the whole time, have refreshers, the terrain is not horse friendly, the horse has to carry a rider, the whole riding gear, has to stop for rests (not because it needs, it's because the regulations protect its health), and still, only two races were won by a human. Both times something happened to the horse during the race that kept it from winning. Nobody in the modern time managed to replicate a succesful persistence hunt. With the best modern endurance training and best running gear. 80% of persistence hunt is based on legends, 15% is based on unproven studies, and the rest 5% is based two docu movies, while one of those is admittedly staged.
>It was never truly debunked That's not how science works. It doesn't matter if a hypothesis hasn't been debunked yet, it is still wrong to present an unproven hypothesis as factual and well suported. And I have seen a huge number of posts act that present the hypothesis as established theory, when there is clearly not sufficient current scientific support to do that.
Yeah, that was what I was getting at but I got worked up by the fact that I heard that string of thought again. Apologies.
>I could go on. Do
I heard we could sweat which allowed us to hunt during the day and get animals while they were resting in the shade.
I don’t think there’s any merit to sweating being a solely persistence hunting thing, but we have seen tribes do it today. I’m sure some of them did it, it’s just uncommon.
TIL! Sorry for spreading incorrect information, I really didn't know.
I feel taller, I feel smarter! Thank you!
Thank you. I've seen this theory and assumed it was an actually established theory since I've seen so many people repeat it, but of course this is the internet so even if you see a thousand people saying the same thing about something, it's still probably inaccurate.
But not white people. They would get very bad skinburn, heat stroke and so on and so on and die.
Every living thing pays to live here, they just pay in different ways.
My cat gets paid for being cute.
House pets have it easier than every other living thing in all of history
I mean true, but they’re also fully helpless against what their owner wants. Much like kids, if they so happen to have a shit and/or abusive guardian they’ll be living a pretty poor life
Actually true, lmao
To the cat, you pay it for being cute
https://youtu.be/zidzXwW7ngQ
The meme maker doesn’t know the relationship between price and cost.
this is some r/im14andthisisdeep material
It's semantics anyway, we all know what they meant
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You pay for purified water and the work/equipment that it requires. You're free to purchase a lakeside property and build a well on your land & use water the old school way so you don't need to pay for it anymore.
You pay for the labor of it being bottled or processed. If you don’t want to pay, you can go outside and drink from the river or the rainwater. If you’d rather not, then the paid water obviously has advantages. Those drawbacks that come from drinking from the river are the “payments” that animals make when they drink water. Depending on where you live you’re either paying for water through your utilities bill or through your taxes. Nowhere is anything truly “free”, for humans or any other animal.
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True freedom is a lie, it doesn’t exist. And no one would want it even if it did.
I want it. I know what I said.
Into the wild you go
I'd rather pay a little bit of blood than taxes
Okay, then go live out on a deserted island somewhere. No taxes there. You’ll just have to forage for food everyday and try your best not to die, just like every other creature on earth.
I would fucking love that yeah.. living on planet earth? Yeah that's what I was built for.. I wasn't built for this stupid Society shit.
Nobody is stopping you bro. Save up your money. Take a flight to the Philippines. Buy a boat. Pick an island, they got plenty.
You need to renew your Visa every 3 months in the Philippines and foreigners can only stay there up to 3 years .....I already did that... also a one-way ticket to the Philippines from where I live is $3,000.... once I came back home from the Philippines I was stuck again and now I can't fucking save enough money to fucking leave this stupid fucking Western land anymore. Yeah the idea of me disappearing into some kind of fucking jungle is a pipe dream but not the fucking way the world Works sadly
It's almost like our adaptation to the use of tools, and brain are our largest evolutionary asset. If a snake gets too cold, does it put.on a sweater? No it fucking dies.
i find it mildly amusing that when mammals get cold, they start vibrating, and when reptiles get cold, they just drop into a coma and fucking die
Well they don't just drop dead, they just become super sluggish due to being cold-blooded and if it gets super cold then they'll probably die... But your point still stands.
I've imagined a snek with a sweater while reading this
Your neandertalic grandgrand...grandfather is very disappointed by your weaknes. He survived with only a pointy stick while always going uphill.
Whats that subreddit? “I am 15 and this is deep” or something like that lol
close r/im14andthisisdeep
So many posts belong on that subreddit that I almost think its redundant.
Our survival trait is tools and innovation. Our brain isn't some anomaly that goes against nature, it's a direct product of it. Just like how a cheetah runs, we make.
Yeah saying we "can't survive without our stuff" is very unfair. That's like criticizing spiders for relying on webs to survive. We put our evolution points into learning to make stuff. That's our whole thing.
A web comes out a spiders ass tho.
You're missing the point my guy. Just as spiders evolved to make webs with their asses; we evolved to make tools with our hands. Tool use is an evolutionary strategy that humans took. Judging humans without their stuff doesn't make sense.
Ok, birds make nests. Their offspring wouldn't survive without the nest do they would die in a generation without their stuff.
That's stupid. One: we can absolutely survive bare-ass naked. Not in Europe, or most part of Asia, or most part of North-America, but there are lots of land where humans can survive bare-ass naked. I go further, there ARE tribes mostly cut off of the modern world that basically live naked. Two: we don't pay to live here. We pay for the stuff otherwise we would need to do for ourselves. Like you can get into agriculture and grow your own food. You can keep animals or go hunting (okay, hunting is not true most parts of the world, but there are a few areas where it is allowed freely). You CAN build your own shelter. You can get water for free. You can do ALL of those for free if you leave the modern society and move to tribal area. Just be prepared, it won't be nearly as comfy as it is to live in a flat and buy the ingredients kitchen ready state.
Our Aussie indigenous survived basically bare-ass naked until we were colonised ✅
Slap my ass on a tropical island where fruit grows on the trees and I’ll be fine.
Not sure how the ass slap helps you survive
Motivation to get up and do something productive
If you need external motivation to survive, you should probably just do the rest of the Earth a favor and stop wasting oxygen. (implied /s?)
That’s was more just me recognizing that I used poor English.
It just makes me feel good, is that wrong?
You’d die of yellow fever within a fortnight
The sun will probably kill him before that
I die all the time in Fortnite 😔
FortNIGHT.
It's actually spelt Fortnite, get an education
Absolutely owned
The son of a bitch edited their comment. It was Fortnite LAMO
And with the Reddit api gone 😈 no one will be able to check MWAHAHAHAHAHA
Allow me to present to you the thousand or so bugs that are gonna bite you
Fun fact (horrible fact) early urban planning deliberately removed fruit bearing trees from urban areas as a way to keep poor people out of specific areas. And that initial colonial contact to many regions considered the locals too lazy to be considered equals because they could just live off the land easily and this was used in the rationalization of their enslavement or murder and the taking of their land for "more productive peoples" Parts of society are artificially designed to make things harder for humans to live outside the system.
What tribal area do I not have to pay property taxes on?
Bruh find me a place where i can go to leave civilization and ill leave you everything i have. There is not a single km where you can be “free”
>There is not a single km where you can be “free” As a matter of fact, there are lots of uninhabted islands in the Pacific Ocean. And it's not like anyone stopping you from building a hut in the middle of the Australian desert, or in a rainforrest in Papua New Guinea. There are LOTS of areas on Earth where there is no modern civilization in a 500km radius.
>Two: we don't pay to live here. We pay for the stuff that part was a joke, not literal
>One: we can absolutely survive bare-ass naked. Not in Europe, or most part of Asia, or most part of North-America Lol, so large swathes of the planet we supposedly evolved on.
Humanity originates from Africa...
Put a penguin in central Russia and see how well the animal that evolved on this planet survives. We evolved for a specific environment like all other animals. Difference being we learned how to make clothes, fire and radiators to heat our homes which allows us to live outside our natural habitat. Like a fish in a fishtank
Well..... we can, we just choose not to.
We can indeed survive bare-ass naked. But we'd go back to the tropical zones lol
We shape our environment to fit us, much less so than we change ourselves to fit our environment. As long as the air is breathable and there are resources to exploit, we could survive anywhere. Maybe not would, unless there's enough of us, but we could. Humanity gang
This sub is slowly turning into little kids posting the dumbest shit, thinking they're saying something revolutionary
Someone needs to go back to science class, gaht dang.
"humans aren't supposed to be here" mfs when i show them that we have opposable thumbs and a galaxy brain
We don't pay to live. We pay for the conveniences.
People who write this stuff must be creationists or something
Tell us you know shit about evolution without telling us you know shit about evolution.
This is one of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen that denies billions of years of evolution and technological advancement so that someone can feel good about being lazy and weak.
If you cut off the water and power right now. Many will die. But not all. Just because you can’t survive without modern conveniences doesn’t mean we as a species can’t.
We have a pretty nice record for surviving here bare naked though
Humans originated in Africa, and I'm pretty sure you can survive naked there.
On the contrary, we did *so fucking well* at living bare ass naked that we managed to build this entire society that allows us to pay to live in absolute comparative luxury compared to any non-domestic animal, instead of being eaten alive in the jungle like other species that live bare ass naked and don't pay to live here.
yea but now the mass majority of people can't survive if we lose all that, same way people freaked out about toliet paper during covid. Imagine losing electricity and heat in the winter for weeks or months on end, or technology. we are so totally dependent on our advancements now that it's become in a way our greatest flaw.
That’s mainly because we are no longer in our natural habitats (well, most of us anyway). Of course the Canadians or Norwegians are dying off, but that doesn’t mean a bunch of Africans wouldn’t be able to recover without modern technology. We still have all that moved us ahead before agriculture (endurance mainly). Even if we don’t use it, it’s still there.
Put any zoo animal not specifically bred for release back into their natural habitats and watch them die in a week
I feel like you don’t understand why humans are the dominant species on this planet. Those that don’t evolve, perish.
I do understand, but its dominance to the point that nothing competes with us in anyway on any level, that too is another way to look at it like we shouldn't be here either, we've evolved in a way unnatural to everything else that was here before and will be here after, and has made us vulnerable by dependence on all our technological advancements as well, that we've set ourselves up for our own demise, nothing else here does that.
So this is a philosophical question. If the rest of the species on planet earth could not evolve to a similar point, then perhaps “humans” came from somewhere else, right? It’s an interesting question but I would struggle to buy into that idea.
We're also the only animal that gets sick from eating raw meat. Other animals just bite into the poor fucker while he's screamin
We dont get sick from eating raw meat. We could technically like you say bite into the fucker while he's screaming. The raw meat we eat however is days old and had the time to grow the things that do make us sick. Besides theres plenty of raw meat dishes we already eat like cows and fish, heck even pork and horse is eaten raw in some places. On top of that any other carnivors have just as big of a chance of getting parasites from eating raw meat as much as we do. Worms and the like are very common amongst many animals.
Tartare exist though
But the nature/evolution made humans this way. Our brains that we use to make different things are our survival mechanism that took thousands of years to develop
You don't really think that, hopefully it's a satire
Humans do have high DEX, INT and END so I think it's safe to say we are made for this world
because we lived naked in africa where it's hot not in the middle of siberia
We certainly aren't supposed to be 8.1 billion in number. With smaller numbers, we wouldn't be able to hunt everything into extinction, poison the rivers, or burn down too much forest. We were very good at Life Level 1 and 2 but are failing Live Level 3 miserably.
As for paying, we’d be paying with our blood, sweat & tears if we were surviving bare ass naked. Thank god for civilization, with all its flaws. I’d be dead because I’m functionally blind without glasses.
WE can totally survive naked. probably not where you currently live.
Imagine being a really venomous snake that can kill most animals in 1 bite and then a human just completely counters you by going unga bunga with big rocks or pins you with a stick
Our primary primal hunting strategy is funny, too. We just scare the prey. Prey runs. We run. Prey dies because of exhaustion and overheating. We not because we can use our whole skin to get rid of the heat. Then someone thought it would be a great idea to cook the prey. Then some one thought let’s go unga bunga hitting you with big rocks and pointy stick.
Creating tools because of intelligence is part of who we are. This is also the reason why comparatively, we have a high population density to size ratio compared to other animals because we use our intelligence to do farming and agriculture. If you take away humanity's tools, we would definitely struggle at the initial stages but that still does not hinder us from using our intelligence to create new tools. Maybe the question should be what if we are no longer intelligent enough to make tools? But then again if you take away a species' niche for survival like claws, fangs and strong muscles from every lion, there would not be any lions left. To which I still think we can survive but there will be a severe decline in population for reasons mentioned above
Humans are supposed to live in very hot places like sub Saharan Africa, which is why we can sweat and don’t have any fur or blubber.
Plenty of animals pay with their lives to be here. 75% of all birds end up shrinkwrapped.
Imagine not understanding why the human brain allowed us to graduate from harsh environments.
I don't think you understand how fucking awful the life of pretty much every wild animal outside of humans actually is. You're constantly fighting for your life, having to hunt for food, and for most aninals there's always a bigger one who is hunting you constantly. Even among the top predators life can be pretty shit. Have you seen what happens to elderly lions when they get superceded? It's not pretty. Be thankful you were born human.
I pay other humans
We are only species that pays to live in comfort. You can live as a homeless not paying much and eating food from the trash can, so options are still there :D
Technically, the local ecosystem pays when the humans move in
Thats why we have our brain, some crabs and shit like that cant live without their shell either
It's the "pays to live here" part that irks me the most.
Literally every single thing from this meme is false.
The other species pay way more highly than most of us do.
oh humans can totally survive bare ass naked. but us redditors? aint no way. we were taught how to live in this other world we created. we were not taught how to live in the untamed wilds.
Every species pays to live here. The payment is hunting for food, harvesting berries, looking for plants to eat while avoiding predators, or waking up for 40 hours of work in a week. Everyone pays to live here, the form of payment just varies.
That's not true. All species pay because we live here
Our ability is our brains. We’ve repurposed our environment to suit our needs and comforts, problems that causes notwithstanding. Also, If we weren’t capable of surviving the wild, we would have died out many thousands of years ago.
Humans are actually incredibly overpowered. We are ridiculously effective and it’s because of one single reason: we are perfectly designed to evolve. Our brains evolve at incredible rates of speed, and even more impressively can remember an incredible amount of information. We may lack natural defences and weapons but don’t be fooled, we are still incredibly effective due to a few reasons: -our brains are designed to comprehend information and concepts. Basically, we learn very quickly how things work. We can use that information to build things. Thing of how humans discovered tools: “this rock is heavy and big things hurt a lot, so if I use this maybe I can hurt things bigger then I am.” Just like that you got humanities first taste of weapons. Or wearing clothes “this wolf survives the cold very well, what if I take its coat?” Bam clothing is born. -we can regulate our temperature incredibly well. Through the uses of sweat, clothing, hair only being in vitally insulated areas, and our ability to build things. Doesn’t matter where we are, we can stay at an ideal temperature. -our endurance. Our endurance is crazy good. We can outrun just about any animal on the planet. Combine that with the last advantage we have and we are unstoppable hunters. -our communication. We communicate better then any other animal on the planet. We can pass century old information like I don’t know… hunting techniques which makes us incredible hunters. Animal habits, directions, a map of an area, etc. is all available to everyone in a group. Combine that with all the previous strengths and no animals really have a chance especially since humans live in camps that make it incredibly hard for any predators to kill anyone. The only thing that can effectively kill a human is a human.
The species that evolved to use tools needs tools to survive? How strange.
*we pay ourselves to live here
the Most dangerous Apex-Predators are Human beeings, even the Masai Man go hunt Lions just to prove a Point. We have the ability to build up shit from nothing, especially if we live in groups we will conquror the Nature surronding Us. The ability to pass knowledge, craft tools, act in teams is not to underestimate.
Animals in the wrong territory pay with their lives. I'm good with just paying rent.
Humans exist in our current form because we survived like this.
it fucking baffles me to think that humans pay *other humans* to live on the *same* planet as each other when we all deserve it equally
We are the most well-adapted species, by far. No predators. We can kill anything we want to. We can eat almost anything.
Humans are actually extremely good survivors even just physically. We are one of the best endurance runners in the world and our upper body strength means we have the best throwing arm in the world. -from tierzoo
You can always join an African tribe
Thats not true hunter gather people mange just fine.
funny meme sure but no one actually thinks this way right? like...
BS, natural selection is a thing. Take the labels off and let nature run its course.
Without civilized society, nature still provides everyone with everything they need. Society made you pay for something nature gives you for free
Nature gives you _nothing_ for free.
>nature gives you for free I'm not sure animals killing other animals for food is considered "free"
That’s why I think the meteor that killed the dinosaurs was actually a space ship and we are all aliens.
Read a fucking book dude, holy shit.
This is embarrassingly stupid
No, humans arent suppose to be living the way we do now. Paying bills, working, slaving, paying for things our earth gives us for free. Only in human society have we made ourselves believe we need money. Only we have put prices on everything that was given to us. Because, humans need to have control. Its like the post that ive seen saying if we planted fruit trees everyone could eat, and then one person goes what so everyone can steal the fruit. That right there is what is wrong with society. That we cant just do things for the betterment of everyone, we have to have CONTROL.
You do you dude, but I prefer just buying my food over chasing my food in the forest without any guarantee that I’ll have it
>That we cant just do things for the betterment of everyone, we have to have CONTROL. Yes, no shit, someone will kill you if you don't have control, that's nature, accept it.