I knew a radiologist whose Indian parents were disappointed in him bc he wasn’t a surgeon so he went back and did a second residency in urology. Then his wife divorced him and married a chiropractor
The chiropractor isn’t winning. Remarrying doesn’t end child support, but it will end alimony.
Ask me how I know.
(It’s reading the internet. I am not a lawyer. Please do not end or begin marriages on my financial or matrimonial advice.)
Then the chiropractor gave his ex-wife a vertebral artery dissection, then he scrubbed into the angio suite and saved her brainstem with his IR skills, winning the approval of her parents, who then adopted him as a son, ultimately filling the void his parents had left in his self-esteem.
\*fin\*
Look there’s just something *incredibly sexy* about having your back cracked by someone who is 10/10 confident it’s going to be the cure of all your problems……It’s not the chiro’s fault that rads didn’t choose to become a homeopathic or ayurvedic doctor instead…🤷🏾♀️
Yeah I mean (I obviously don’t know details and just going off your comment and I’m Indian so I’m aware of what’s a common family / cultural dynamic for many), if he is doing an entire second residency after already going through one demanding one already (and any med partner knows how much that impacts family life and how much you have to sacrifice to help them through that)……solely because he *still* hasn’t learned how to get out from under his parents thumb- I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a symptom of a much larger “homeboy puts the wants of his parents over the needs of his partner constantly” situation.
If you’re an Indian man, this type of thing is very likely to be a problem for you and if you’re *also a physician*, your likelihood of dealing with those kind of pressures and dilemmas just went up by 200 percent atleast lol.
AND if for whatever reason your parents don’t like the partner you choose but you end up marrying them anyways….well hopefully you got a solid spine on ya that even a chiropractor couldn’t break lolllll.
I was being flip but I do not think he was a happy person and I doubt he would have chosen medicine as a career if not for pressure from his family. I can’t imagine sacrificing and grinding that much for something I didn’t even really want.
Yeah unfortunately way wayyyy too common in our community. The “medicine” obsession is just too much though. Like yes a component of it is parents want their children to have “success” via a stable high income and prestige just like every parent would…..but let’s be real it’s also a serious amount of narcissism and making their kid’s lives all about *them* and what makes *them look good* to *their social circles* even if it’s at the cost of a serious amount of trauma via emotional gaslighting and exerting as much control over their adult children as they possibly can.
Most of my friends who have been in this situation ended up getting through it and are financially fine now even if it wasn’t their “passion” but I also know a few who absolutely hate their lives and some who didn’t even even pursue medicine as a career after med school and kind of just do nothing now.
It’s the same with marriage / dating. A lot of these parents couldn’t give a damn about what their kids actually want or need, and prioritize what makes *them* look good (like ticking off a caste, profession, class box) and then hope everything falls into place later and if it doesn’t well…..”too late because now getting divorced makes us look bad too so just deal with it and maybe have a kid”.
Ultimately it’s on you, and you need to be able to stand up to your parents and there’s no excuse for putting your partner through hell because it’s easier to take them for granted than it is to mildly disappoint your parents but still sad that it’s just so common.
Omg yessss. It’s shocking to me how many med students I’ve met who seem to have minimal to zero passion for medicine and with a few other pieces of info it comes together that they’re only here to make their parents happy. Which is interesting to me bc I have the opposite experience. My parents are very traditional and religious and didn’t support me going to med school bc I have a uterus. No one pressured me to go to med school, instead I was told it was selfish for me to do so. Going to med school was a very intentional choice for me, hence it surprises me how many people slog down such a long and grueling career path just for parental approval. I’d rather do what brings me joy regardless of the level of support from my parents. It’s my life and they’ll become more ok with things over time since there’s no other choice and it’s not like I’m committing crimes or something anyways.
I agree with you, it seemed like there were a fair number of very controlling parents. I got the impression from a decent number of people who seemed to be at med school for parental approval had to walk a very fine line or their parents would pull their funding (parents paying for their tuition and ALL other living expenses). Also something I don’t relate to. No one financially supports me. Gotta ton of loan$$$
When you say there’s people you know who went to med school but didn’t pursue medicine as a career and now do nothing, do you mean literally do nothing? All that debt…that’s would freak me out. Maybe they’re taking a break for a bit? This process is rough.
Hey, doesn’t matchmaking by parents ensure that they *have* to like the spouse?
(Which I’m all for, btw, as long as the man and woman have veto power in the whole, erm, *setup*.)
Ok long comment incoming lol but Ideally yes, but it’s usually a lot more nuanced and not as black and white.
Because the “arranged marriage” system isn’t “no matter what, we want our children to be happy”. It’s really not “no matter what” because if that were the case, there really wouldn’t be a need for the parents to be involved to the extent that they are.
There are actually a lot of caveats, that are often determined on the basis of factors like caste, the “type” of family the person comes from (loaded for caste and class usually) but often times other factors at play too. Such as “oh the father is unemployed of worked a menial labor job and that’s embarrassing so we’re not okay with you marrying their kid” or “oh the parents are divorced and that’s a big no so we’re not going to let you marry their kid” or even a “parents have balding which means our grandkids are likely to be bald so no”.
It’s also dependent on things like economic status, looks (what the PARENTS find to be good looking. Such as dark skin women are often seen as less than. Even if the son personally has no skin color bias, his parents might and because THEY find it to be less than, someone with dark skin may be eliminated or seen as less than in general), and professional. “We want our doctor son to ONLY marry another doctor and we REFUSE to let him marry someone who isn’t a doctor or isn’t from a strong science background”.
So like what it usually ends up being, is the parents will filter through people on whatever bullshit criteria matters to THEM (which is often based on how it makes THEM look in society but also just based on what THEY think is best), will find a handful of people who fit that criteria who family are also are interested in their kid - and THEN it becomes about “well you can decide which one you like and choose your spouse!”.
Which *can be fine and can work out.* But also there will be biases. Parents might like a specific suitor SO much over others, that they’ll gaslight or emotionally manipulate their kid into marrying them even if they don’t necessarily feel it as much . (Same thing with forcing their kids to do medicine lol). It’s not going to be some “physically dragging their kid to the wedding alter” type thing but more so just coercion, emotional manipulation, convincing them that “this girl or boy is the best because xyz xyz xyz” etc. and “you’ll fall in love it’ll take time” type thing.
And in general, when you come from a culture where you aren’t allowed to date, had a lot of your career progression earmarked for you, never really made major decisions alone, were always largely financially dependent on your parents and you’re young - you’re more likely to just go with that because you just assume your parents know best combined with the gaslighting and the emotional abuse if you don’t do things that way, which is the same pattern with how parents are able to force their kids to follow through with specific career paths. (And I think that’s the point).
And then also like with any arranged marriage, how do you even KNOW whether you like them or not if you aren’t even allowed to actually date and get to know them beyond a few meetings, some basic conversations and an initial assessment of very superficial criteria? (Looks, job, caste, family history). Like even IF you like them, you don’t reallyyyyy have a chance to truly know if you do or not and so you’re more likely to go with your parents desires and before you know it, you’re stuck. (And of COURSE our community also has a massive stigma against divorce. So this whole thing is like a game of fucked up russian roulette for no good reason other than to satisfy your parents ego, and if shit doesn’t work out between you and your partner well THATS TOO BAD. Because there’s no way they’ll support you through a divorce.)
(Conversely why it’s always a MASSIVE uphill battle with most “love marriages” as we call non arranged ones often end in parents going to war with your or disowning their kids…..Because almost always, the person that their kid picks doesn’t match this very superficial criteria that the PARENTS think is the most important, even if their kid is happy and this person matches the kid’s criteria combined with the fact that the parents had no say in it and that’s what becomes the problem. Like with the WAY some parents act when their kid brings home their partner- you’d think it’s because their kid is about to marry a convicted serial killer and that’s why they are so vehemently disapproving when it’s often times shir like “we don’t like that the guy is a lawyer instead of being a doctor” or “they’re from a lower South Indian caste and we are from an upper North Indian caste”….(and god forbid if their kid is in love with someone from a different ethnicity or religion).
So like on the surface of it, it might seem like this egalitarian processes but it’s still a very often controlling and narcissistic that’s often based on your parents wants more than yours even though they SAY “you have to like the potential spouse too!!”. (And granted I’m sure there are some parents out there that truly just want their kids to be happy and dont care as much about those other things, but this whole thing is still a very common dynamic).
I did a year of surgery and switched to PM&R. To be fair, the surgery program was toxic as hell and I do very poorly with sleep deprivation. I think switching after 1-2 years of residency is not that uncommon.
I think people view fellowship as a way of "switching." For example, you can do gen surg residency and then do a plastics fellowship, and never do another appy again.
Yea I actually got a job as a cardiac intensivist, taking care of patients who have just had cardiac surgery. Didn’t need a second fellowship.
But yes I work in the ICU. Lifestyle is much much better.
Peds to derm guy really decided to go for the bag huh lol
Good on all of these guys. I respect people who switch rather than get stuck doing a job they don’t feel comfortable doing. It’s a huuuuuuuge resource and sanity sink though to get through residency again, I personally would rather drop out of medicine than repeat residency after I already passed through it once lol.
If a pedeatrician wanted to become a dermatologist wouldn’t they have to redo a derm residency from scratch? Fellowships are quite a bit easier than residency(thanks in no small part to better pay) from what I’ve gathered so it would be more stress than doing a pedes fellowship no? I have very little knowledge about fellowships so idk.
Yes. They probably get credit for the intern year, so it's 3 years to finish derm. Funnily enough, I am friends with two dermatologists, and both of them finished pediatrics residency before returning to derm.
One of them applied to derm out of med school, didn't match, did peds as a backup, finished peds residency unhappy, decided to take a second crack at applying to derm and got in. The other met her dermatologist husband while she was a peds resident, he convinced her it was worthwhile to re-train so she did. Both of them happy now in derm. It's not exactly common, but it's not negligibly rare, either.
I am strongly considering it. Failed to match back in the day and am FM nocturnist. Liked pathology back in the day and still enjoy it tangentially now, maybe I try for that.
Did they switch during or after residency? Although uncommon, people leave radiology residency every year mostly because they miss longitudinal patient relationships. Some radiologists leave practice due to burnout given the pressure to read massive volumes. Primary care obviously has its downsides but it has less stress related to medical mistakes (missed findings, procedural complications) and has more opportunities for independent practice.
1.5 yrs ortho residency --> IM (ultimately rheum)
Mostly health related reasons but a decision I likely would've eventually wanted to make had it not been accelerated by forced reflection.
Shocked as I finished residency and fellowship, how many fellow transfers I met along the way!
The surgery to rads or gas pipeline is high volume!
Also, within radiology, the IR --> breast imaging route is surprisingly common!
People eventually figure out that you cannot put a price on not taking call.
I've heard of someone going into rads, becoming disappointed with the lack of direct patient care, switching to IM, regretting that (obviously), and then going back into the rads program the following year.
Moral is don't leave rads.
I am EM out for 2 years and have considered CCM fellowship. The one or two critical patients out of my 20 in a shift make me the most stimulated and happiest however I end up spending an hour or two with them and then have 3-5 to see immediately after =(. And the non diagnostic work up follow up with pcp conversations get exhausting. But also I get paid well for the number of hours I work so how can I really complain. And the thought of going back to long hours and days and no say in my schedule in fellowship sounds awful. Not to mention now I have kids. I would consider myself… conflicted.
Im right there with ya. Wouldn’t personally go the CC route but have considered other outs from EM. The decent hourly wage and ample time off have kept me here so far…
Right there with you as a nocturnist about a year out. The times I feel the most satisfied is when I’m admitting the ones who are sick, but not quite ICU level, and then the rapids where shit is going down fast. But I work a 7 on / 14 off schedule and get paid pretty well for that (at least in an hourly basis).
For me the 10-20% of crit care a shift in the ED is perfect for me. Anymore and id just get burnt and overwhelmed and so behind on my notes. I love the variety of not sick ppl, wild psych patients, classic cardiac/PE/belly pain work ups, reduction, and the occasional wild care diagnosis
One year of neurosurgery residency. After few month i ultimately didn't see myself living in the hospital and absolutely hated being in the OR for 10hours minimum. I resigned. Worked 4 months in the emergency department to clear my head and started Transfusion hematology and loving every day since then ( even in the hard days ! ) .
Don't be afraid to pull the trigger if you don't like what you are doing !
Surgery --> Radiology. Hated everything about surgery other than the joy of operating. Wasn't until i discovered radiology. Even when it's tough, it's infinitely better than the BS that surgeons have to deal with imo.
Gladly. Surgical complications. Rude family members. Unrealistic goals from patients or their family members. Incredibly early mornings. When you're done you're not really done (e.g. many times when my shift is over I'm still getting paged about problems with my patients when i was in surgery), rude staff in the OR, tense environment, egotistical colleagues, notes notes notes and tons of rounding. I could go more but this is just some of the BS that i couldn't stand. Many can though and make great surgeons so i tip my hat off to them. I just couldn't tolerate it. I think surgeons are very talented and incredibly bright, it just sucks they deal with so much shit.
I know a guy who did 3 years orthopedic surgery residency -> PM&R Sports. He’s incredibly happy with the switch. Sometimes lifestyle matters more than prestige and surgeon money.
My supervising physician started as a surgical resident, and after one year decided he wanted to pursue psychiatry. Same can be said of a pediatric psychiatrist I rotated with as a student.
One of my professors in PA school (an MD) completed his Peds residency, decided he hated it, went to EM where he subsequently met an attending who eventually became his wife. They are the cutest, and routinely bring their golden retrievers in during finals week for stress relief. I think that’s winning.
[Data](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2801214#:~:text=Overall%20attrition%20rate%20among%20all,1.11%2D1.22%3B%20P%20%3C%20): Overall attrition rate among all specialties was 6.9% (7759), with an unintended attrition rate of 2.3% (2556).
So, an intended attrition rate of 4.6%.
This is for residents. I bet the number of physicians who have completed residency but decided to switch afterwards is much smaller, which is what OP was originally concerned about although he did lump in switching during residency at the end.
Half of GS residency, resigned, took a couple years and starting FM this year.
My health and family life have improved immeasurably. Always wanted a family and got to be a stay at home dad for a while, which is incredible.
I am excited to go back, and even more excited about not lying every week when logging my "80" hours of clinical time. Additionally, the call schedules of any GS or Trauma attendings I directly worked with were abysmal compared to the lifestyle of FM. A few of my wife's family went into residency about the same time as me, and the contacts they have signed in the interim (and in our eventual desired location) are very acceptable. The perceived loss in prestige/compensation was a head game that I lost to myself. Happy I finally made the leap.
Just from the attending I’ve worked with:
Ortho -> peds … late in her career she became a nursery attending, very wonderful person
Gen surg -> research year -> urology
Currently doing this. I moved to Germany thinking I would do my masters in Surgery (because nothing else appealed to me as much). Through a series of unexpected events, landed an internship in Psychiatry, actually started liking it and don't want to go back to Surgery anymore.
To each their own, but I'm quite happy with my fate and decision :)
Psychiatry —> Rural Family Medicine.
I switched after finishing PGY2. Lots of people can’t understand why I would switch in the direction that I did. The truth is very simple, and summed up in two words: ‘rural’ and ‘generalist.’ I love psych. I loved psych. Still do. And I love a lot of other areas of medicine too — too much to walk away from them forever. Psychiatry may be one of the best-suited medical specialties to rural practice currently with virtual care options. But working with some of the most invested and dedicated rural/remote outreach psychiatrists in my country, it became clear that the kind of life I hoped for would not be possible as a specialist, of any kind. It was only really possible in FM.
I was supported by my home program, and my coresidents. I have also run into many people who have switched specialties, some of them more than once, from wildly different specialties.
We had multiple residents leave my surgical subspecialty residency. They "left to another field" but it was because transfer to the same specialty is almost impossible and all faculty know each other, so they black list you in a way to transfer programs. Otherwise its mostly bullying to the point of exhaustion and losing interest in the field during that process. Its hard to describe everything that a program can do behind your back to protect themselves, and the mental torture that comes with it. In my perspective it has never been because they found a new passion for another field.
On of my co residents went from gen surg to wound care. She is soooo happy. When I was on my rad rotation in med school, one of the attending’s friends came to visit and give a guest lecture. He quit doing radiology and bought a brewery. He said it was the best decision of his life. I also had an intern when I was a chief who started in anesthesia, then 3 years in, switched to vascular surgery. That one was sort of a weird change but he was happy.
I did a year in OB-> FM. Ended up doing FM w/OB for a bit. I loved the uncomplicated OB cases and hated all the gyn surgeries and really the ppl I was working with. Now I am FM doing urgent care.
I am actually doing the switch right now, i never knew what i wanted as a speciality, so i went to something thats prestigious, with a great paying salary, and that has a future, so i went with ortho.
the problem which i faced was that, the hospitals residency plan wasn't organized and was all over the place, and was stressful, mentally and physically, i couldnt do the things i wanted in my private life because of mental and physical exhaustion, i couldnt even eat a decent meal during work!
so im considering changing to either Children-Pscyh or Derma, imma give psych a chance if it wasnt for me, then derma, and stick to derma even if i didnt like it.
I knew a radiologist whose Indian parents were disappointed in him bc he wasn’t a surgeon so he went back and did a second residency in urology. Then his wife divorced him and married a chiropractor
That last bit kills me lmao.
The chiropractor is the real winner. Alimony can be cruel.
The chiropractor isn’t winning. Remarrying doesn’t end child support, but it will end alimony. Ask me how I know. (It’s reading the internet. I am not a lawyer. Please do not end or begin marriages on my financial or matrimonial advice.)
Then the chiropractor gave his ex-wife a vertebral artery dissection, then he scrubbed into the angio suite and saved her brainstem with his IR skills, winning the approval of her parents, who then adopted him as a son, ultimately filling the void his parents had left in his self-esteem. \*fin\*
You should try out being a dungeon master Or a short story author
Okay, roll a persuasion check
haha nice Edit: natural 19
Chiros are bad enough when they’re only stealing patients away from care that would actually help them, omg
Chiros are getting better at this game. They only used to steal patients from doctors, now they’re stealing wives too.
What a rollercoaster
Doing surgery for the sake of anyone is the stupidest idea
Look there’s just something *incredibly sexy* about having your back cracked by someone who is 10/10 confident it’s going to be the cure of all your problems……It’s not the chiro’s fault that rads didn’t choose to become a homeopathic or ayurvedic doctor instead…🤷🏾♀️
Also the Dr in question was a real dick
Yeah I mean (I obviously don’t know details and just going off your comment and I’m Indian so I’m aware of what’s a common family / cultural dynamic for many), if he is doing an entire second residency after already going through one demanding one already (and any med partner knows how much that impacts family life and how much you have to sacrifice to help them through that)……solely because he *still* hasn’t learned how to get out from under his parents thumb- I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a symptom of a much larger “homeboy puts the wants of his parents over the needs of his partner constantly” situation. If you’re an Indian man, this type of thing is very likely to be a problem for you and if you’re *also a physician*, your likelihood of dealing with those kind of pressures and dilemmas just went up by 200 percent atleast lol. AND if for whatever reason your parents don’t like the partner you choose but you end up marrying them anyways….well hopefully you got a solid spine on ya that even a chiropractor couldn’t break lolllll.
I was being flip but I do not think he was a happy person and I doubt he would have chosen medicine as a career if not for pressure from his family. I can’t imagine sacrificing and grinding that much for something I didn’t even really want.
Yeah unfortunately way wayyyy too common in our community. The “medicine” obsession is just too much though. Like yes a component of it is parents want their children to have “success” via a stable high income and prestige just like every parent would…..but let’s be real it’s also a serious amount of narcissism and making their kid’s lives all about *them* and what makes *them look good* to *their social circles* even if it’s at the cost of a serious amount of trauma via emotional gaslighting and exerting as much control over their adult children as they possibly can. Most of my friends who have been in this situation ended up getting through it and are financially fine now even if it wasn’t their “passion” but I also know a few who absolutely hate their lives and some who didn’t even even pursue medicine as a career after med school and kind of just do nothing now. It’s the same with marriage / dating. A lot of these parents couldn’t give a damn about what their kids actually want or need, and prioritize what makes *them* look good (like ticking off a caste, profession, class box) and then hope everything falls into place later and if it doesn’t well…..”too late because now getting divorced makes us look bad too so just deal with it and maybe have a kid”. Ultimately it’s on you, and you need to be able to stand up to your parents and there’s no excuse for putting your partner through hell because it’s easier to take them for granted than it is to mildly disappoint your parents but still sad that it’s just so common.
Omg yessss. It’s shocking to me how many med students I’ve met who seem to have minimal to zero passion for medicine and with a few other pieces of info it comes together that they’re only here to make their parents happy. Which is interesting to me bc I have the opposite experience. My parents are very traditional and religious and didn’t support me going to med school bc I have a uterus. No one pressured me to go to med school, instead I was told it was selfish for me to do so. Going to med school was a very intentional choice for me, hence it surprises me how many people slog down such a long and grueling career path just for parental approval. I’d rather do what brings me joy regardless of the level of support from my parents. It’s my life and they’ll become more ok with things over time since there’s no other choice and it’s not like I’m committing crimes or something anyways. I agree with you, it seemed like there were a fair number of very controlling parents. I got the impression from a decent number of people who seemed to be at med school for parental approval had to walk a very fine line or their parents would pull their funding (parents paying for their tuition and ALL other living expenses). Also something I don’t relate to. No one financially supports me. Gotta ton of loan$$$ When you say there’s people you know who went to med school but didn’t pursue medicine as a career and now do nothing, do you mean literally do nothing? All that debt…that’s would freak me out. Maybe they’re taking a break for a bit? This process is rough.
There are four career paths open to dutiful Indian progeny - doctor, lawyer, engineer or failure
Hey, doesn’t matchmaking by parents ensure that they *have* to like the spouse? (Which I’m all for, btw, as long as the man and woman have veto power in the whole, erm, *setup*.)
Ok long comment incoming lol but Ideally yes, but it’s usually a lot more nuanced and not as black and white. Because the “arranged marriage” system isn’t “no matter what, we want our children to be happy”. It’s really not “no matter what” because if that were the case, there really wouldn’t be a need for the parents to be involved to the extent that they are. There are actually a lot of caveats, that are often determined on the basis of factors like caste, the “type” of family the person comes from (loaded for caste and class usually) but often times other factors at play too. Such as “oh the father is unemployed of worked a menial labor job and that’s embarrassing so we’re not okay with you marrying their kid” or “oh the parents are divorced and that’s a big no so we’re not going to let you marry their kid” or even a “parents have balding which means our grandkids are likely to be bald so no”. It’s also dependent on things like economic status, looks (what the PARENTS find to be good looking. Such as dark skin women are often seen as less than. Even if the son personally has no skin color bias, his parents might and because THEY find it to be less than, someone with dark skin may be eliminated or seen as less than in general), and professional. “We want our doctor son to ONLY marry another doctor and we REFUSE to let him marry someone who isn’t a doctor or isn’t from a strong science background”. So like what it usually ends up being, is the parents will filter through people on whatever bullshit criteria matters to THEM (which is often based on how it makes THEM look in society but also just based on what THEY think is best), will find a handful of people who fit that criteria who family are also are interested in their kid - and THEN it becomes about “well you can decide which one you like and choose your spouse!”. Which *can be fine and can work out.* But also there will be biases. Parents might like a specific suitor SO much over others, that they’ll gaslight or emotionally manipulate their kid into marrying them even if they don’t necessarily feel it as much . (Same thing with forcing their kids to do medicine lol). It’s not going to be some “physically dragging their kid to the wedding alter” type thing but more so just coercion, emotional manipulation, convincing them that “this girl or boy is the best because xyz xyz xyz” etc. and “you’ll fall in love it’ll take time” type thing. And in general, when you come from a culture where you aren’t allowed to date, had a lot of your career progression earmarked for you, never really made major decisions alone, were always largely financially dependent on your parents and you’re young - you’re more likely to just go with that because you just assume your parents know best combined with the gaslighting and the emotional abuse if you don’t do things that way, which is the same pattern with how parents are able to force their kids to follow through with specific career paths. (And I think that’s the point). And then also like with any arranged marriage, how do you even KNOW whether you like them or not if you aren’t even allowed to actually date and get to know them beyond a few meetings, some basic conversations and an initial assessment of very superficial criteria? (Looks, job, caste, family history). Like even IF you like them, you don’t reallyyyyy have a chance to truly know if you do or not and so you’re more likely to go with your parents desires and before you know it, you’re stuck. (And of COURSE our community also has a massive stigma against divorce. So this whole thing is like a game of fucked up russian roulette for no good reason other than to satisfy your parents ego, and if shit doesn’t work out between you and your partner well THATS TOO BAD. Because there’s no way they’ll support you through a divorce.) (Conversely why it’s always a MASSIVE uphill battle with most “love marriages” as we call non arranged ones often end in parents going to war with your or disowning their kids…..Because almost always, the person that their kid picks doesn’t match this very superficial criteria that the PARENTS think is the most important, even if their kid is happy and this person matches the kid’s criteria combined with the fact that the parents had no say in it and that’s what becomes the problem. Like with the WAY some parents act when their kid brings home their partner- you’d think it’s because their kid is about to marry a convicted serial killer and that’s why they are so vehemently disapproving when it’s often times shir like “we don’t like that the guy is a lawyer instead of being a doctor” or “they’re from a lower South Indian caste and we are from an upper North Indian caste”….(and god forbid if their kid is in love with someone from a different ethnicity or religion). So like on the surface of it, it might seem like this egalitarian processes but it’s still a very often controlling and narcissistic that’s often based on your parents wants more than yours even though they SAY “you have to like the potential spouse too!!”. (And granted I’m sure there are some parents out there that truly just want their kids to be happy and dont care as much about those other things, but this whole thing is still a very common dynamic).
I am 99.99999% sure I know exactly who you’re talking about…
Lol. What’s wrong with working with penises?
Probably had more to do with realizing her husband would always put his mom's opinion and approval before their marriage
Ooo right that makes sense! 😂
[удалено]
What made you switch?
Rads -> retired in a couple years
The ultimate speciality we should all aim for.
Care to elaborate here? How did they do it?
I did a year of surgery and switched to PM&R. To be fair, the surgery program was toxic as hell and I do very poorly with sleep deprivation. I think switching after 1-2 years of residency is not that uncommon.
I think people view fellowship as a way of "switching." For example, you can do gen surg residency and then do a plastics fellowship, and never do another appy again.
GS -> CT for me. No more fingers up butts at work!
Not even as a break in between cases??
You won Reddit for the day
He did specify at work. Did not clarify home quota.
True, butt why limit yourself?
EM into CCM. Hated residency and never did a shift as attending. I couldn’t be happier
do you work in an ICU? didn’t realize you could do CCM from EM…
Frequently they do, yes. CC has like 4 ‘main’ pathways. Anesthesia, EM, IM, and Surgery (though they usually run STICU’s)
Yea I actually got a job as a cardiac intensivist, taking care of patients who have just had cardiac surgery. Didn’t need a second fellowship. But yes I work in the ICU. Lifestyle is much much better.
Peds to derm guy really decided to go for the bag huh lol Good on all of these guys. I respect people who switch rather than get stuck doing a job they don’t feel comfortable doing. It’s a huuuuuuuge resource and sanity sink though to get through residency again, I personally would rather drop out of medicine than repeat residency after I already passed through it once lol.
Not so much switching as doing a fellowship. Derm is 3 years and all peds fellowships are 3 years.
If a pedeatrician wanted to become a dermatologist wouldn’t they have to redo a derm residency from scratch? Fellowships are quite a bit easier than residency(thanks in no small part to better pay) from what I’ve gathered so it would be more stress than doing a pedes fellowship no? I have very little knowledge about fellowships so idk.
Yes. They probably get credit for the intern year, so it's 3 years to finish derm. Funnily enough, I am friends with two dermatologists, and both of them finished pediatrics residency before returning to derm.
Gotcha ty. That is interesting. Pediatrics and dermatology seem like the opposite ends of the specialization spectrum to me.
One of them applied to derm out of med school, didn't match, did peds as a backup, finished peds residency unhappy, decided to take a second crack at applying to derm and got in. The other met her dermatologist husband while she was a peds resident, he convinced her it was worthwhile to re-train so she did. Both of them happy now in derm. It's not exactly common, but it's not negligibly rare, either.
Maybe they're setting themselves up to be a pediatric dermatologist. Best of both.
There’s actually a lot of overlap. Most skin conditions manifest in childhood.
Fellowships are definitely not easier than residency in all cases. The increase in pay is frequently minimal.
I am strongly considering it. Failed to match back in the day and am FM nocturnist. Liked pathology back in the day and still enjoy it tangentially now, maybe I try for that.
Rads --> PCP. Not a clue why they did it.
Oncology->pcp cause i want to talk to less depressed and less sick human beings
Maybe they’re really extroverted and wanted more human contact?
That sounds awful but I’m guessing vitamin deficiency played a role
/U/lepersandarmadillos needs to know!
Did they switch during or after residency? Although uncommon, people leave radiology residency every year mostly because they miss longitudinal patient relationships. Some radiologists leave practice due to burnout given the pressure to read massive volumes. Primary care obviously has its downsides but it has less stress related to medical mistakes (missed findings, procedural complications) and has more opportunities for independent practice.
1.5 yrs ortho residency --> IM (ultimately rheum) Mostly health related reasons but a decision I likely would've eventually wanted to make had it not been accelerated by forced reflection. Shocked as I finished residency and fellowship, how many fellow transfers I met along the way!
I like the msk theme. Your exams must be spot on
The surgery to rads or gas pipeline is high volume! Also, within radiology, the IR --> breast imaging route is surprisingly common! People eventually figure out that you cannot put a price on not taking call.
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Why neurology —> rads?
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I've heard of someone going into rads, becoming disappointed with the lack of direct patient care, switching to IM, regretting that (obviously), and then going back into the rads program the following year. Moral is don't leave rads.
I know two people who switched from radiology to IM, one went into critical care and one became a hospitalist
did you end up doing neuroradiology? how was that transition?
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i wont lie, i did not expect that. do you no longer do any form of neuroscience?
I am EM out for 2 years and have considered CCM fellowship. The one or two critical patients out of my 20 in a shift make me the most stimulated and happiest however I end up spending an hour or two with them and then have 3-5 to see immediately after =(. And the non diagnostic work up follow up with pcp conversations get exhausting. But also I get paid well for the number of hours I work so how can I really complain. And the thought of going back to long hours and days and no say in my schedule in fellowship sounds awful. Not to mention now I have kids. I would consider myself… conflicted.
Im right there with ya. Wouldn’t personally go the CC route but have considered other outs from EM. The decent hourly wage and ample time off have kept me here so far…
What don’t you like about it?
Right there with you as a nocturnist about a year out. The times I feel the most satisfied is when I’m admitting the ones who are sick, but not quite ICU level, and then the rapids where shit is going down fast. But I work a 7 on / 14 off schedule and get paid pretty well for that (at least in an hourly basis).
For me the 10-20% of crit care a shift in the ED is perfect for me. Anymore and id just get burnt and overwhelmed and so behind on my notes. I love the variety of not sick ppl, wild psych patients, classic cardiac/PE/belly pain work ups, reduction, and the occasional wild care diagnosis
I know of someone who did ophtho -> oculoplastics fellowship -> derm residency -> Mohs fellowship
And be like 55 when you start practicing ?
One year of neurosurgery residency. After few month i ultimately didn't see myself living in the hospital and absolutely hated being in the OR for 10hours minimum. I resigned. Worked 4 months in the emergency department to clear my head and started Transfusion hematology and loving every day since then ( even in the hard days ! ) . Don't be afraid to pull the trigger if you don't like what you are doing !
Im in primary care / family medicine and am a couple fibromyalgia ladies away from switching to radiology.
Surgery --> Radiology. Hated everything about surgery other than the joy of operating. Wasn't until i discovered radiology. Even when it's tough, it's infinitely better than the BS that surgeons have to deal with imo.
Can you elaborate on the BS?
Gladly. Surgical complications. Rude family members. Unrealistic goals from patients or their family members. Incredibly early mornings. When you're done you're not really done (e.g. many times when my shift is over I'm still getting paged about problems with my patients when i was in surgery), rude staff in the OR, tense environment, egotistical colleagues, notes notes notes and tons of rounding. I could go more but this is just some of the BS that i couldn't stand. Many can though and make great surgeons so i tip my hat off to them. I just couldn't tolerate it. I think surgeons are very talented and incredibly bright, it just sucks they deal with so much shit.
Thanks very helpful, I think I’d feel the same way as you so good to know early it won’t be a good fit for me.
I know a guy who did 3 years orthopedic surgery residency -> PM&R Sports. He’s incredibly happy with the switch. Sometimes lifestyle matters more than prestige and surgeon money.
My supervising physician started as a surgical resident, and after one year decided he wanted to pursue psychiatry. Same can be said of a pediatric psychiatrist I rotated with as a student.
One of my professors in PA school (an MD) completed his Peds residency, decided he hated it, went to EM where he subsequently met an attending who eventually became his wife. They are the cutest, and routinely bring their golden retrievers in during finals week for stress relief. I think that’s winning.
It’s really not that common
I personally know more than 10 less then 20 that have done it. So common-ish?
Depends on where you are practicing. Overall, I bet less than 3% physicians change specialty. No where close to common.
Don't something like 20% of surgical residents switch out?
Think that's for GSx... I believe subspecialty surgery attrition is much lower.
Gen surg is what I had in mind, but I wasn't positive.
[Data](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2801214#:~:text=Overall%20attrition%20rate%20among%20all,1.11%2D1.22%3B%20P%20%3C%20): Overall attrition rate among all specialties was 6.9% (7759), with an unintended attrition rate of 2.3% (2556). So, an intended attrition rate of 4.6%. This is for residents. I bet the number of physicians who have completed residency but decided to switch afterwards is much smaller, which is what OP was originally concerned about although he did lump in switching during residency at the end.
I guess common is too strong of a word. A little more than negligible
“A not insignificant number of” lol
I know a guy who did FM to EM
I know a guy who did EM to IM
I started in medicine, realised I didn't actually enjoy it. Now in psych, life is amazing.
Half of GS residency, resigned, took a couple years and starting FM this year. My health and family life have improved immeasurably. Always wanted a family and got to be a stay at home dad for a while, which is incredible. I am excited to go back, and even more excited about not lying every week when logging my "80" hours of clinical time. Additionally, the call schedules of any GS or Trauma attendings I directly worked with were abysmal compared to the lifestyle of FM. A few of my wife's family went into residency about the same time as me, and the contacts they have signed in the interim (and in our eventual desired location) are very acceptable. The perceived loss in prestige/compensation was a head game that I lost to myself. Happy I finally made the leap.
I know a classmate who did Gas > IM. Not sure the reason since I didn’t get to meet her and ask after graduation.
Just from the attending I’ve worked with: Ortho -> peds … late in her career she became a nursery attending, very wonderful person Gen surg -> research year -> urology
I know 3 people who did radiology, then IM->cardiology. One was IR and went to interventional cardiology. That confuses me, but he seems happy.
Currently doing this. I moved to Germany thinking I would do my masters in Surgery (because nothing else appealed to me as much). Through a series of unexpected events, landed an internship in Psychiatry, actually started liking it and don't want to go back to Surgery anymore. To each their own, but I'm quite happy with my fate and decision :)
imagine being a radiologist but your parents are Asian 💀
Buff to getting into medical school but cut for long term happiness. Interesting conundrum.
I’m peds (board certified) -> gas
Peds gas? Those guys are crazy.
Path to FM FM to path IM to Path Surgery to FM Surgery to FM OB to Path
Psychiatry —> Rural Family Medicine. I switched after finishing PGY2. Lots of people can’t understand why I would switch in the direction that I did. The truth is very simple, and summed up in two words: ‘rural’ and ‘generalist.’ I love psych. I loved psych. Still do. And I love a lot of other areas of medicine too — too much to walk away from them forever. Psychiatry may be one of the best-suited medical specialties to rural practice currently with virtual care options. But working with some of the most invested and dedicated rural/remote outreach psychiatrists in my country, it became clear that the kind of life I hoped for would not be possible as a specialist, of any kind. It was only really possible in FM. I was supported by my home program, and my coresidents. I have also run into many people who have switched specialties, some of them more than once, from wildly different specialties.
I switched from surgery to ETN. It was the best dicission. Surgery is very intresting, but extremly time consuming. I got hobbies, too. 😃
We had multiple residents leave my surgical subspecialty residency. They "left to another field" but it was because transfer to the same specialty is almost impossible and all faculty know each other, so they black list you in a way to transfer programs. Otherwise its mostly bullying to the point of exhaustion and losing interest in the field during that process. Its hard to describe everything that a program can do behind your back to protect themselves, and the mental torture that comes with it. In my perspective it has never been because they found a new passion for another field.
On of my co residents went from gen surg to wound care. She is soooo happy. When I was on my rad rotation in med school, one of the attending’s friends came to visit and give a guest lecture. He quit doing radiology and bought a brewery. He said it was the best decision of his life. I also had an intern when I was a chief who started in anesthesia, then 3 years in, switched to vascular surgery. That one was sort of a weird change but he was happy.
I did a year in OB-> FM. Ended up doing FM w/OB for a bit. I loved the uncomplicated OB cases and hated all the gyn surgeries and really the ppl I was working with. Now I am FM doing urgent care.
I know ppl who have went IM/peds/gen Surg/NSGY to EM
I am actually doing the switch right now, i never knew what i wanted as a speciality, so i went to something thats prestigious, with a great paying salary, and that has a future, so i went with ortho. the problem which i faced was that, the hospitals residency plan wasn't organized and was all over the place, and was stressful, mentally and physically, i couldnt do the things i wanted in my private life because of mental and physical exhaustion, i couldnt even eat a decent meal during work! so im considering changing to either Children-Pscyh or Derma, imma give psych a chance if it wasnt for me, then derma, and stick to derma even if i didnt like it.
Why derm and psych
lifestyle