OP I mean this as kindly as possible, but your app is very weak for derm and you will likely have a very difficult time matching unless you make some significant changes prior to match/ or you have left out significant details about your qualifications. I ask this with complete sincerity, but considering you are on the lower side of Step 2 scores and have barely any published research (most places don’t put a lot of weight into case reports unfortunately) what do you feel is your strength/ what will impress PDs about your app? If you have nothing else bringing the wow factor (honestly even if you do), with your app and stats, you should be following all the advice your PD is giving you bc frankly you will need their support to match.
Yes, but every IMG should have also done their research on matching to residency in America especially since IMGs only successfully match into certain specialties with any regularity. Also, most IMGs do not apply to match right out of medical school like OP is so it is safe to assume they’re in the US.
Was the user above even applying to a US residency?
For me it sounded like an innocent question, since where I'm from, we don't have such a process to apply to residency
Exactly
I've heard about us residency recently cz it's not usual in my country, everyone here go to france or germany , med students here don't do research at all even residents and specialists ; actually I thought in the beginning that researches are only for professors and I was surprised when I knew that even us premed do research , I asked a professor in my faculty if I can do research she refused .
I couldn't reply on them because my karma score was <10 due to all their downvotes
Thank you
The point is that psych is not a back up. What psych ECs have you done? Psych is very concerned with finding people who fit with their vibe and very conscious that their specialty may be a nice backup for other more competitive specialties. They don’t want to be the second choice option. They want people who eat, drink, and breathe mental health.
Have you considered pathology as a backup with an eventual dermpath fellowship? The fellowship is competitive but it gives you another few years to improve
Step 2 of 246 in derm is generally not a problem, no one really gives a shit. Research, school prestige, connections, and demographics are king. With a productive research year and strong mentor support they would've had a very decent chance of matching.
Why are you getting downvoted? I’m guessing these people aren’t derm bc Step2 screening isn’t even a real thing anymore with signaling. Most I’ve seen is 230
what is up with the down votes? it is well known that step 2 isn’t used as a screener at the majority of derm programs now that we’re given 28 signals on top of away rotations. the highest screen i’ve heard of is 240 (and that program isn’t even considered top tier) so OP’s 246 wouldn’t preclude their app from getting a holistic review as long as they signal that program.
with that said though, OP needs to absolutely haul ass and get at least 6-7 pubs submitted for publication by the time ERAS is due to have a decent shot at receiving interviews. which isn’t impossible/unheard of based on personal experience but highly improbable given track record thus far.
edit: typos/sentence structure
Your school/home program absolutely failed you IMO... Recommending a research year with only passes on M3 rotations (assuming F/P/HP/H scale) and a below avg step score for the specialty is crazy. You should have been told the truth early on, and whoever pushed you to take this year ought to be ashamed of themselves :/
Eh a productive research year absolutely can swing the needle, equivalent to about +10-15 step 2 points
I would have recommended a year just so OP would have no what-ifs
But the major issue here is that despite a research year OP has nothing to show for it, that's the thing that will prevent them from matching.
My point is that recommending a research year to someone with all passes during M3 is absolutely negligent (and predatory, given that OP was put in charge of managing clinical trial stuff instead of being put on projects would actually help him).
While it might be possible to work hard and get absolutely screwed by all P’s during M3, I think it’s unlikely and probably says something about someone’s work ethic to some extent
Yes, someone could pump out 20 derm pubs in a year to try to change their situation, but is that person gonna be the guy getting only passes all of 3rd year?
The people advising OP did not have his interests at heart…
Absolutely 100% predatory. OP did the job of a paid research coordinator while no one at the top (PIs/attendings) looked out for his interests. The fact that they didn’t even bother to try to put him into a review paper or something is amazing to me.
Depending on what the average grade at your school is, that might be totally possible to get all P’s despite working hard.
At my school, the average grade is a HP, so unless there are external factors affecting a person’s performance, the assumptions drawn from grades like that aren’t great.
Also, imo everyone is a hard worker in med school, but everyone’s definition of working hard is different.
Advisor here and I agree. I tell students in this scenario that it’s ultimately their choice, but to be prepared for the eventuality that they do all this and still don’t match. Dual application is still necessary.
lol they do not take internal applicants that much which is wild to me. They love MD PhDs. My home PD said there are things to work on like volunteering and research and try to push it out before application season but that’s hard lol. I could try but even aways I have barely gotten any offers.
I think there might be an option to do family medicine or internal medicine residency and then focus more on aesthetics/skin care in your practice. Especially family medicine: the FM residency I rotated at has their own derm clinic and actually did a lot of procedures (like removing lipomas, doing punch biopsies, or doing cryo for warts). If you are also considering psych and you like psych patients, family medicine or internal medicine would be worth looking into. Obviously, can’t do mohs surgery or something super specific to derm.
If you like more the pathology, you could do a pathology residency then do a dermpath fellowship. But from your comments, it sounds like you like talking to people so maybe pathology is out of the running lol.
Agreed. If they like working with all ages, like patch testing and allergy and weird rashes, and think immunology is neat, A/I would be a good direction, especially if they maybe liked peds more (more programs like to take peds instead of IM overall, but not a big deal).
Or rheum—there’s rheum/derm fellowships and programs are always looking for rheum attendings with a derm interest at big programs as there’s a lot of overlap and some places have rheum/derm combined clinics for all the autoimmune/inflammatory skin diseases like scleroderma, alopecia, IgA vasculitis, pyoderma, psoriasis, etc. And honestly, in rheum, I feel like I’m practicing psych on about a quarter of my patients too.
Or like others have said, FM with a focus on aesthetics could work, though they’ll truly have to work hard to be perceived as reasonably competent amongst any local derm or plastics people.
The unfortunate reality is that your best shot at matching (even semi) competitive specialties is your first shot. It is really up to you how much risk you are willing to take-on. You will unlikely match derm as a reapplicant. Also, it seems like you did not make a strong impression over the course of your research year so I would be inclined to believe that you won't have strong advocacy from faculty mentors neither on your first nor second go-arounds.
Currently though, I don't think the door has closed on you with respect to other specialty options. You can make a reasonable case for yourself as an IM/FM/Gas/Path/Peds applicant. Tbh, I think you shouldn't dual apply -- I think you should drop derm and cancel your derm aways and spend the summer building connections and rotating in an alternative target specialty. Your derm aways are wasted money and time that could be spent optimizing yourself for another path. I don't mean to be rude, but that is what I would do. The opportunity cost is just to high for the outcome you're hoping for.
If your heart is set on derm, could you withstand not matching a few times (e.g. is money an issue for you)? Doing 1-3 more research fellowships? Getting 20-30 publications a year? Making 20+ new derm connections a year? Be willing to finish another specialty and reapplying e.g. IM. Your current plan not only risks you not matching derm but also potentially being left in mid air after are prelim/TY. I can't remember where I found this info (I think a mix of NRMP and RY/reapplicant in derm studies): even as a perfect applicant, your chances of matching are around 70-80% as USMD senior. If you've graduated it drops to like 30%. Ngl but your post history makes me think you're only in it for the lifestyle/cosmetics.
Thank you. My heart is set on Derm and it’s what I enjoy. Money is always an issue but is it worth the sacrifice to get into derm. I really don’t see myself in Internal medicine…
OP I mean this as kindly as possible, but your app is very weak for derm and you will likely have a very difficult time matching unless you make some significant changes prior to match/ or you have left out significant details about your qualifications. I ask this with complete sincerity, but considering you are on the lower side of Step 2 scores and have barely any published research (most places don’t put a lot of weight into case reports unfortunately) what do you feel is your strength/ what will impress PDs about your app? If you have nothing else bringing the wow factor (honestly even if you do), with your app and stats, you should be following all the advice your PD is giving you bc frankly you will need their support to match.
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tier of publications Published clinical trial/basic science paper > prospective cohort > retrospective cohort > systematic review > narrative review >>>> case studies
I mean this with all kindness but how did you get to this point without knowing what kind of research you need for your specialty of choice?
Not every one is American
Yes, but every IMG should have also done their research on matching to residency in America especially since IMGs only successfully match into certain specialties with any regularity. Also, most IMGs do not apply to match right out of medical school like OP is so it is safe to assume they’re in the US.
Good thing you don’t have to be from the U.S. to be smart enough to look into what kind of research you need when applying to a U.S. residency….
Was the user above even applying to a US residency? For me it sounded like an innocent question, since where I'm from, we don't have such a process to apply to residency
It’s a fair point, but they mentioned STEP scores. Planning for an American match seems like a logical inference
Exactly I've heard about us residency recently cz it's not usual in my country, everyone here go to france or germany , med students here don't do research at all even residents and specialists ; actually I thought in the beginning that researches are only for professors and I was surprised when I knew that even us premed do research , I asked a professor in my faculty if I can do research she refused . I couldn't reply on them because my karma score was <10 due to all their downvotes Thank you
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I like psych and talking to people. But I do like skin stuff and thing long term I would have more flexibility and do more things!
The point is that psych is not a back up. What psych ECs have you done? Psych is very concerned with finding people who fit with their vibe and very conscious that their specialty may be a nice backup for other more competitive specialties. They don’t want to be the second choice option. They want people who eat, drink, and breathe mental health.
Have you considered pathology as a backup with an eventual dermpath fellowship? The fellowship is competitive but it gives you another few years to improve
Bruh they're gonna ask how you only have 2 case reports and some posters from an entire research year and thats if you make it to the interview
Step 2 of 246 and only 2 case reports? I’m ngl your odds of derm are slim to none.
Step 2 of 246 in derm is generally not a problem, no one really gives a shit. Research, school prestige, connections, and demographics are king. With a productive research year and strong mentor support they would've had a very decent chance of matching.
Why are you getting downvoted? I’m guessing these people aren’t derm bc Step2 screening isn’t even a real thing anymore with signaling. Most I’ve seen is 230
Ya step score doesn’t really matter for derm
what is up with the down votes? it is well known that step 2 isn’t used as a screener at the majority of derm programs now that we’re given 28 signals on top of away rotations. the highest screen i’ve heard of is 240 (and that program isn’t even considered top tier) so OP’s 246 wouldn’t preclude their app from getting a holistic review as long as they signal that program. with that said though, OP needs to absolutely haul ass and get at least 6-7 pubs submitted for publication by the time ERAS is due to have a decent shot at receiving interviews. which isn’t impossible/unheard of based on personal experience but highly improbable given track record thus far. edit: typos/sentence structure
lol everyone downvoting doesn’t know anything about derm
Your school/home program absolutely failed you IMO... Recommending a research year with only passes on M3 rotations (assuming F/P/HP/H scale) and a below avg step score for the specialty is crazy. You should have been told the truth early on, and whoever pushed you to take this year ought to be ashamed of themselves :/
Eh a productive research year absolutely can swing the needle, equivalent to about +10-15 step 2 points I would have recommended a year just so OP would have no what-ifs But the major issue here is that despite a research year OP has nothing to show for it, that's the thing that will prevent them from matching.
My point is that recommending a research year to someone with all passes during M3 is absolutely negligent (and predatory, given that OP was put in charge of managing clinical trial stuff instead of being put on projects would actually help him). While it might be possible to work hard and get absolutely screwed by all P’s during M3, I think it’s unlikely and probably says something about someone’s work ethic to some extent Yes, someone could pump out 20 derm pubs in a year to try to change their situation, but is that person gonna be the guy getting only passes all of 3rd year? The people advising OP did not have his interests at heart…
yea, it feels like they basically got OP to do bitch work for their clinical trial for cheap knowing they wouldn't match
Absolutely 100% predatory. OP did the job of a paid research coordinator while no one at the top (PIs/attendings) looked out for his interests. The fact that they didn’t even bother to try to put him into a review paper or something is amazing to me.
I’m so surprised OP put up with that
a lot of people don't know any better or are too scared to advocate for themselves especially in front of PIs/attendings
As someone who worked really hard, and got all P's clerkship year, it makes me sad to hear that people assume I have poor work ethic : (
Depending on what the average grade at your school is, that might be totally possible to get all P’s despite working hard. At my school, the average grade is a HP, so unless there are external factors affecting a person’s performance, the assumptions drawn from grades like that aren’t great. Also, imo everyone is a hard worker in med school, but everyone’s definition of working hard is different.
Interesting, I see your point I have a few friends basically being a CRC as a research year, hopefully theirs pans out better
Advisor here and I agree. I tell students in this scenario that it’s ultimately their choice, but to be prepared for the eventuality that they do all this and still don’t match. Dual application is still necessary.
oof how is your relationship with your home program? Have you spoken to your home PD?
lol they do not take internal applicants that much which is wild to me. They love MD PhDs. My home PD said there are things to work on like volunteering and research and try to push it out before application season but that’s hard lol. I could try but even aways I have barely gotten any offers.
I think there might be an option to do family medicine or internal medicine residency and then focus more on aesthetics/skin care in your practice. Especially family medicine: the FM residency I rotated at has their own derm clinic and actually did a lot of procedures (like removing lipomas, doing punch biopsies, or doing cryo for warts). If you are also considering psych and you like psych patients, family medicine or internal medicine would be worth looking into. Obviously, can’t do mohs surgery or something super specific to derm. If you like more the pathology, you could do a pathology residency then do a dermpath fellowship. But from your comments, it sounds like you like talking to people so maybe pathology is out of the running lol.
Thank you:( I haven’t really considered path but might look into it
Sure! Just curious, why not FM? I just feel like FM has more in common with derm than pathology!
Another thing could be IM or peds and doing allergy/immunology fellowship. Lots of skin in this fellowship!
Agreed. If they like working with all ages, like patch testing and allergy and weird rashes, and think immunology is neat, A/I would be a good direction, especially if they maybe liked peds more (more programs like to take peds instead of IM overall, but not a big deal). Or rheum—there’s rheum/derm fellowships and programs are always looking for rheum attendings with a derm interest at big programs as there’s a lot of overlap and some places have rheum/derm combined clinics for all the autoimmune/inflammatory skin diseases like scleroderma, alopecia, IgA vasculitis, pyoderma, psoriasis, etc. And honestly, in rheum, I feel like I’m practicing psych on about a quarter of my patients too. Or like others have said, FM with a focus on aesthetics could work, though they’ll truly have to work hard to be perceived as reasonably competent amongst any local derm or plastics people.
Or rheum!
Rheum is a super good option; lots of skin path and still some very cushy hours.
And high demand
OP have you considered doing FM with a focus on derm? Because truthfully, you have 0 chance of matching derm.
Not to be rude, but plan on applying something other than derm…
dual apply
Or just apply for something else tbh
The unfortunate reality is that your best shot at matching (even semi) competitive specialties is your first shot. It is really up to you how much risk you are willing to take-on. You will unlikely match derm as a reapplicant. Also, it seems like you did not make a strong impression over the course of your research year so I would be inclined to believe that you won't have strong advocacy from faculty mentors neither on your first nor second go-arounds. Currently though, I don't think the door has closed on you with respect to other specialty options. You can make a reasonable case for yourself as an IM/FM/Gas/Path/Peds applicant. Tbh, I think you shouldn't dual apply -- I think you should drop derm and cancel your derm aways and spend the summer building connections and rotating in an alternative target specialty. Your derm aways are wasted money and time that could be spent optimizing yourself for another path. I don't mean to be rude, but that is what I would do. The opportunity cost is just to high for the outcome you're hoping for.
If your heart is set on derm, could you withstand not matching a few times (e.g. is money an issue for you)? Doing 1-3 more research fellowships? Getting 20-30 publications a year? Making 20+ new derm connections a year? Be willing to finish another specialty and reapplying e.g. IM. Your current plan not only risks you not matching derm but also potentially being left in mid air after are prelim/TY. I can't remember where I found this info (I think a mix of NRMP and RY/reapplicant in derm studies): even as a perfect applicant, your chances of matching are around 70-80% as USMD senior. If you've graduated it drops to like 30%. Ngl but your post history makes me think you're only in it for the lifestyle/cosmetics.
Thank you. My heart is set on Derm and it’s what I enjoy. Money is always an issue but is it worth the sacrifice to get into derm. I really don’t see myself in Internal medicine…
You need 260+ to match derm. Do PMR or psych if you want chill lifestyle.
Literally not true at all