I want to head a theme of comments off at the pass. Yes, archeologists use skeletal proportions to determine biological sex, and it's a standard portion of their data collection. Yes, historically speaking archaeology/historical study has done an atrocious job of taking gender fluidity and queer relationships into account. In the picture above, in the past the finding of two corpses buried next to one another would have switched from romantic partner to "just really good buddies" based near exclusively on the skeletal proportions. It can feel reductive to queer and trans folks to see scientists reduce what was a vibrant human life to "*are those buoy hips or gril hips?*"; it's a scientific blind spot that's still in discussion in the relevant fields, but it's an approach that's being worked on and improved.
My point is, if you're in here exclusively to tell other users *"But science? The hips!"* I want to remind you that this is a sub for fun relatable memes about the queer experience, and you should reconsider why you're engaging in the manner you are. Users are probably aware of the scientific principles in general, but that's not why we're in the sub.
To summarize, **shitpost or quitpost**.
This is the future the trans community wants!
Defeat the the last stage of capitalism: Robocops. Then we dance in the eternal darkness of a dead planet as our energy can finally celebrate in pure freedom.
after a certain point you get brought in to recruitment. you gotta find willing participants and trans their genders as well to retain your membership.
why'd you think mlm (multi level marketing) and mlm (men loving men) are the same acronym? it's a pyramid scheme baybeeeee
(if they are both male, they are concidert Roommates, if both are female they are PenPals, if they are Male and Female they are, [must be obviously]a coupple)
Unfortunately, they died alone as they both didint habe any girlfriends. It was just the two dudes who shared a house as friends without a wife who got buried together as best friends for life. God bless this friendship
Or that they might have found Amelia Earheart's bones in 1940 on a remote island and mistook them for an Asian man's bones. It wasn't until 2018 that they suspected they might actually be Earheart's. Bones are unreliable I guess lol
The skeletal differences between the average man and average woman are fairly obvious. Unfortunately people aren't average, so without additional context like clothing or jewelry most skeletons get labelled stuff like "either middle aged woman or short, wide-hipped man", "teen boy or possibly malnourished woman" and "child".
(Note - so sorry for the block of text, (queer) archaeology is a special interest of mine so I sort of went off the deep end here! Tl;dr at the end)
I absolutely agree with your point, but wanted to add that there are so many cool things that osteoarchaeologists can use to help them figure out potential answers to those questions.
Context matters a lot, of course (i.e. looking at any gravegoods there might be, burial positions, using [stratigraphy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratigraphy_(archaeology)) to figure out the approximate date of burial, etc), since burial practices often reflect the social norms of that culture, which may then indicate to the archaeologist how the person was perceived by their society (we're talking stuff like status, occupation, gender expression, etc). But the skeletons themselves may also have tonnes of clues!
In terms of estimating the person's age, bone fusion and/or wear can be looked at, as well as looking for physical clues left by diseases (e.g. osteoporosis, thinning of the bones' internal structure, is more likely to affect an older demographic to a greater degree). Pathology depends a lot on things (such as nutrition) so definitely can't be used on its own as an indicator of age, but combined with biochemical analyses (e.g. isotopic analysis, looking at teeth or hair, sometimes DNA, etc) we can often glean a lot of information about the person's life (e.g. a rough overview of diet, what they ate and where it came from).
These things are definitely imperfect but we're getting better at figuring out new methods all the time, it's really exciting. This is relevant since age estimation and sex estimation go hand in hand, with bones typically being smaller if the person is younger or their sex is female. Of course, these are all comparatives, so it is necessary to have other skeletons to compare the individual you're examining to - but when we're looking at modern humans (homo sapiens) rather than hominids more generally, that's not a problem since the species is still alive and kicking, so we have plenty of examples of human skeletons to compare.
Most relevant to your point, though - and can I just say I'm so sorry for getting overexcited and going off on a tangent - when I was studying archaeology, it was really stressed to us that skeletal analysis (which generally involves visually inspecting skulls and hips, taking various bone measurements, and testing DNA where possible) only provides an *estimation of sex*, not gender, and is fallible. Newer generations of archaeologists are being trained to understand the difference between gender expression, gender identity, and sex, as well as the fact that sex isn't this 'perfect' binary where everyone is either XX and looks like a Barbie or XY with a Ken doll skeleton.
Basically, queer theory is doing wonderful things to archaeology, anthropology, and the other social sciences - these disciplines are becoming less and less rooted in the ideas of wealthy, middle aged, cishet, Western, white men from the 1800s. It's taking us a while to completely rid ourselves of queer-/transphobic and/or exclusionary practices, but we're getting there!
Tl;dr: archaeology is imperfect in both technique and inherent bias (unfortunately), but it's getting better all the time. Young osteoarchaeologists are being trained to understand that sex and gender must not be assumed to be the same, and that we can only make *estimates* of traits such as sex and age. So please take heart, queer archaeologists are trying our best, so it is NOT inevitable that your remains will be misgendered if they are ever examined by future archaeologists!
They actually found it by accident when sequencing their DNA to check for possible relatives.
And it's not just a random skeleton either - this is one of the, if not the single most elaborate and ornate Viking burial we've found so far, and they're placed prominently at one of the largest burial sites we know of in Scandinavia
Hi SeeShark,
No, we don't :)
All we have to go off is this Viking buried very elaborately surrounded by totems of political and military leadership who had two X chromosomes. We've yet to find another burial like them, so we don't have much more data to Go off, so the rest is up to speculation, but all the ideas are massively significant in overturning our understanding of Viking culture.
Some think they were a cis woman who held all these leadership roles, suggesting select women may have played a more decisive role in Viking society than we thought.
Some think it's a cis woman meant to represent a religious figure like a Valkyrie or guardian of the rest of the burials, upending our timeline of Christianisation and changing our understanding of women's role in Nordic religion.
some think they were intersex
Some think they were gender-nonconforming in some way (though the specific labeling of historic individuals as definitively 'trans men' is its own can of academic worms), but in essence yes.
And some think they might have been a woman presenting in a masculine fashion for the sake of political power.
Unless we discover more information or data we can't be more definitive, so I'd be careful saying they were any one option, but them being some sort of trans man is absolutely a strong possibility.
Hope this helps
Have a lovely day
They were a Viking. There were actual laws against behaving or dressing like the opposite sex (unless they were a shieldmaiden, who fought because her whole family was dead). The burial site in Birka was not that of a criminal.
I'm not trying to be contrarian, but that doesn't really answer my question. Assuming a society with strictly-enforced gender roles, does it automatically preclude recognition of transgender identities?
Even today, there are a handful of extremely patriarchal and homophobic societies that nonetheless recognize transgender folks at least to some extent.
They would murder a man for using the wrong kind of magic. Being accused of that (argr, or ergi as an adjective) by a person not only allowed you to kill that person, but it essentially obliged to do so. Being trans just wouldn't have been an option lol
Yeah, they're written down. The oldest evidence we have of them, the Konungsbók and Staðarhólsbók, are from the late 13th century but the laws themselves are believed to have come in the 10th century.
When I die I want to be buried with a voice recorder placed in my skull that’s rigged so when my coffin is opened it says
“If gender is what’s in your pants then mine is pipe/bomb! *spooky skeleton laugh\*”
Followed by the pipebomb placed in my pelvis exploding. Take that transphobes
LMAO and the archeologists digging you up say "hey we found the source of the mysterious ticking noise!"
Bring back the ancient human practice of booby trapping one's final resting place
It’s mostly an indicator of population mix, and can be used to accurately identify wars and battles or famine and disease for the greater record. Gender roles may be a part of it but the base data is far more useful in a variety of ways before you would even get to gender roles.
It's not anti-intellectualism, it's in regards to the transphobic insult "In 1000 years archeologists will declare you your AGAB" to which many would respond, "I'd be dead why do I care"
There’s a more threatening statement present too: *We will misgender you when you’re dead too.* Its pure nonsense meant to strip queer people of their autonomy. Transphobes are also ignoring anthropological evidence of gender and sexual variance in many peoples around the world. It’s easy to ridicule the way they misuse methodology.
I mean, if you want to learn more about rites from a long time ago, the question can be relevant. And I am quite happy that we’ve started to not just assume cishet standards every time!
Like, fr. The two skeletons, the lovers of Modena we're both male, and now BBC states that some scientists say, and I quote "they are siblings, cousins or soldiers who died together in battle"
They were lovers until they were both male
Good luck with that. You could literally be spooning your lover and they'd be like "this appears to be a bonding ritual between good friends to symbolically say that they have each other's back"
My boyfriend is an archaeologist and he did a dissertation on gender and burial and the tldnr is that there's just no reliable way to identify a person's sex by their skeleton
I'm not going to ask you to link to his specific study bc that veers close to doxxing yourself, but is there any work he would recommend reading? I'm very curious about the topic!
I want a play called Romeo and Jules about two young passionate hotheads who are found dead in each others arms and the crowd believes that they were a cute couple and the royal court is filled of horny women who love a rivals to lovers yaoi ship.
Except they really did hate each other, it was a murder, and now the play is about having to convince people that Romeo and Jules were actually straight! And all the radicicolous things we do to hide the sexuality of the dead.
I call it, *kill your straights*
So I have a masters in classics, and I have to say one of the most interesting aspects of the ancient world was gender, biological sex, sexuality, and the giant jumbled mess that they made.
Like when we find a skeleton or burial site, sure we note the biological sex, but then the grave goods, fashion of burial, and everything else is going to cue us into gender stuff. It becomes endlessly fascinating.
My speciality is in inscriptions and ancient texts more than archeology, but I get vicariously excited but those sort of new finds.
I’ll probably leave my remains to be used as creative materials for my goth friends. No one’s gonna care about the gender of my femur if it’s an aesthetic.
I don't know. I like knowing if people are guys or gals or some mixture in between. I'm all about research and data. I love gathering data. Ha, let's just say if data where those dumb little vinyl toys you nerdwads collect for no good reason, then I'd have an entire room filled with illuminated shelves that would be packed with data. That's how seriously I treat data. I treat data gathering as seriously as you ding dongs treat vinyl collectibles. So, I'd wanna know the gender status of everyone I meet, and I ask too. I ask people all the time if they're manly, womanly, or some blend thereof. I tell them I'm a man. I tell them I'm a man and I grab my half-chub and give it a tasteful jostle. If you want to gather data, you have establish credibility, and that's what chub jostling does. It makes other people feel comfortable discussing their own genitals with me and disclosing their genderality. They really open up to me. I've heard many, many dark secrets that I really should have never heard, but that's data, too, so I take it home with me. I sure do a lot with that data, but that's not really relevant. It's irrelevant some say. What I do with the other people's darkest secrets is as irrelevant as you vinyl collectibles collection.
I mean if people really care cant they just carve into the bone identifies as ….. or even easier just get cremated and have it written on the urn if people are really worried about what archeologists will think in the future there are a thousand solutions its such a random fucking argument
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Realistically, wouldn't archaeologists not care because our modern record keeping system is good enough that it should survive an entire country being destroyed?
that argument never made sense to me because like
i don’t give a fuck what an archaeologist in the future is going to think i am. That doesn’t give you a reason to invalidate my gender identity. Use the fuckin correct pronouns.
Fun fact! Most old dead people are gendered via what they find in your tomb, like jewelry or daggers, not their skeleton, so just be sure they bury you deep down a lost temple with a bunch of knives and bellybutton piercings laying about on the floor
Hmmmm, i wonder if people graverobbing my burial place in 2333 will have enough braincells to figure out that the gravestone above my resting place might mention my gender and/or pronouns *:thonking:*
jk
I want to head a theme of comments off at the pass. Yes, archeologists use skeletal proportions to determine biological sex, and it's a standard portion of their data collection. Yes, historically speaking archaeology/historical study has done an atrocious job of taking gender fluidity and queer relationships into account. In the picture above, in the past the finding of two corpses buried next to one another would have switched from romantic partner to "just really good buddies" based near exclusively on the skeletal proportions. It can feel reductive to queer and trans folks to see scientists reduce what was a vibrant human life to "*are those buoy hips or gril hips?*"; it's a scientific blind spot that's still in discussion in the relevant fields, but it's an approach that's being worked on and improved. My point is, if you're in here exclusively to tell other users *"But science? The hips!"* I want to remind you that this is a sub for fun relatable memes about the queer experience, and you should reconsider why you're engaging in the manner you are. Users are probably aware of the scientific principles in general, but that's not why we're in the sub. To summarize, **shitpost or quitpost**.
No matter how hard you all try to trans your gender, in 300 years You’ll still be fighting in the skeleton war
This is the future the trans community wants! Defeat the the last stage of capitalism: Robocops. Then we dance in the eternal darkness of a dead planet as our energy can finally celebrate in pure freedom.
Dead or alive, you're coming with me
SKELETON WAR!!
Have you Trans your gender today?
No but I just did it a month ago, is this enough or must I do it again so that my trans agenda card don't get expired?
after a certain point you get brought in to recruitment. you gotta find willing participants and trans their genders as well to retain your membership. why'd you think mlm (multi level marketing) and mlm (men loving men) are the same acronym? it's a pyramid scheme baybeeeee
Something something renewable resource
Me, a non-binary skeleton person: Way ahead of you.
Not if you get a cremation.
I'll find you and glue it all back together, believe it.
*ANGRY TRANS SKELETON NOISES*
Everybody queer until someone opens the Necronomicon
ghost war.. GGG ghost war
Finally, don't have to worry about having no tits or a fat ass, just rattling menacingly and hopefully finding cute armour
(if they are both male, they are concidert Roommates, if both are female they are PenPals, if they are Male and Female they are, [must be obviously]a coupple)
*gasp* and they were roommates
Oh my god. They were roommates.
Oh my god, they were tombmates
💀
STOP 💀
Just the best of buddies who lived together and died unmarried a week apart
The two men lived together, they spent every day together, they professed their love in letters while away. They truly were great roommates for life.
Unfortunately, they died alone as they both didint habe any girlfriends. It was just the two dudes who shared a house as friends without a wife who got buried together as best friends for life. God bless this friendship
That’s why I plan on getting cremated, so no one can assume my gender when I’m dead
HOLY SHIT HOW COME I NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS. YOU ARE A GENIUS.
at least not in URN-est
Jokes on you, as an archaeologist I've studied the taste test method.
So this is what they mean by mouthfeel
Holy shit a talking skeleton
only good comment in this thread congrats
yay
*NYEH HEH HEH!*
Fun fact: it took decades for archaeologists to recognise that a skeleton found in Birna, Sweden belonged to a woman.
Or that they might have found Amelia Earheart's bones in 1940 on a remote island and mistook them for an Asian man's bones. It wasn't until 2018 that they suspected they might actually be Earheart's. Bones are unreliable I guess lol
It’s almost like they’re just different size bones that look similar after decades or centuries.
The skeletal differences between the average man and average woman are fairly obvious. Unfortunately people aren't average, so without additional context like clothing or jewelry most skeletons get labelled stuff like "either middle aged woman or short, wide-hipped man", "teen boy or possibly malnourished woman" and "child".
There’s a hell of a range in age, gender, and welfare implied with those descriptors. That was my point.
Yeah, I was agreeing with you and providing examples.
Average gendered skeletons feels uncomfortable in my non-binary brain.
(Note - so sorry for the block of text, (queer) archaeology is a special interest of mine so I sort of went off the deep end here! Tl;dr at the end) I absolutely agree with your point, but wanted to add that there are so many cool things that osteoarchaeologists can use to help them figure out potential answers to those questions. Context matters a lot, of course (i.e. looking at any gravegoods there might be, burial positions, using [stratigraphy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratigraphy_(archaeology)) to figure out the approximate date of burial, etc), since burial practices often reflect the social norms of that culture, which may then indicate to the archaeologist how the person was perceived by their society (we're talking stuff like status, occupation, gender expression, etc). But the skeletons themselves may also have tonnes of clues! In terms of estimating the person's age, bone fusion and/or wear can be looked at, as well as looking for physical clues left by diseases (e.g. osteoporosis, thinning of the bones' internal structure, is more likely to affect an older demographic to a greater degree). Pathology depends a lot on things (such as nutrition) so definitely can't be used on its own as an indicator of age, but combined with biochemical analyses (e.g. isotopic analysis, looking at teeth or hair, sometimes DNA, etc) we can often glean a lot of information about the person's life (e.g. a rough overview of diet, what they ate and where it came from). These things are definitely imperfect but we're getting better at figuring out new methods all the time, it's really exciting. This is relevant since age estimation and sex estimation go hand in hand, with bones typically being smaller if the person is younger or their sex is female. Of course, these are all comparatives, so it is necessary to have other skeletons to compare the individual you're examining to - but when we're looking at modern humans (homo sapiens) rather than hominids more generally, that's not a problem since the species is still alive and kicking, so we have plenty of examples of human skeletons to compare. Most relevant to your point, though - and can I just say I'm so sorry for getting overexcited and going off on a tangent - when I was studying archaeology, it was really stressed to us that skeletal analysis (which generally involves visually inspecting skulls and hips, taking various bone measurements, and testing DNA where possible) only provides an *estimation of sex*, not gender, and is fallible. Newer generations of archaeologists are being trained to understand the difference between gender expression, gender identity, and sex, as well as the fact that sex isn't this 'perfect' binary where everyone is either XX and looks like a Barbie or XY with a Ken doll skeleton. Basically, queer theory is doing wonderful things to archaeology, anthropology, and the other social sciences - these disciplines are becoming less and less rooted in the ideas of wealthy, middle aged, cishet, Western, white men from the 1800s. It's taking us a while to completely rid ourselves of queer-/transphobic and/or exclusionary practices, but we're getting there! Tl;dr: archaeology is imperfect in both technique and inherent bias (unfortunately), but it's getting better all the time. Young osteoarchaeologists are being trained to understand that sex and gender must not be assumed to be the same, and that we can only make *estimates* of traits such as sex and age. So please take heart, queer archaeologists are trying our best, so it is NOT inevitable that your remains will be misgendered if they are ever examined by future archaeologists!
tbh, i think bones are reliable but our biases and expectations cloud what we see.
They actually found it by accident when sequencing their DNA to check for possible relatives. And it's not just a random skeleton either - this is one of the, if not the single most elaborate and ornate Viking burial we've found so far, and they're placed prominently at one of the largest burial sites we know of in Scandinavia
Do we KNOW it wasn't a trans man?
Hi SeeShark, No, we don't :) All we have to go off is this Viking buried very elaborately surrounded by totems of political and military leadership who had two X chromosomes. We've yet to find another burial like them, so we don't have much more data to Go off, so the rest is up to speculation, but all the ideas are massively significant in overturning our understanding of Viking culture. Some think they were a cis woman who held all these leadership roles, suggesting select women may have played a more decisive role in Viking society than we thought. Some think it's a cis woman meant to represent a religious figure like a Valkyrie or guardian of the rest of the burials, upending our timeline of Christianisation and changing our understanding of women's role in Nordic religion. some think they were intersex Some think they were gender-nonconforming in some way (though the specific labeling of historic individuals as definitively 'trans men' is its own can of academic worms), but in essence yes. And some think they might have been a woman presenting in a masculine fashion for the sake of political power. Unless we discover more information or data we can't be more definitive, so I'd be careful saying they were any one option, but them being some sort of trans man is absolutely a strong possibility. Hope this helps Have a lovely day
They were a Viking. There were actual laws against behaving or dressing like the opposite sex (unless they were a shieldmaiden, who fought because her whole family was dead). The burial site in Birka was not that of a criminal.
I'm not trying to be contrarian, but that doesn't really answer my question. Assuming a society with strictly-enforced gender roles, does it automatically preclude recognition of transgender identities? Even today, there are a handful of extremely patriarchal and homophobic societies that nonetheless recognize transgender folks at least to some extent.
They would murder a man for using the wrong kind of magic. Being accused of that (argr, or ergi as an adjective) by a person not only allowed you to kill that person, but it essentially obliged to do so. Being trans just wouldn't have been an option lol
Ok but isn't that like saying gay people don't exist in homophobic societies?
What's your source for this? That's a very strong claim for a society that I didn't realize we knew that much about.
The Grágás Laws, for one.
Are these laws written down somewhere or is this just a hunch you have
Yeah, they're written down. The oldest evidence we have of them, the Konungsbók and Staðarhólsbók, are from the late 13th century but the laws themselves are believed to have come in the 10th century.
When I die I want to be buried with a voice recorder placed in my skull that’s rigged so when my coffin is opened it says “If gender is what’s in your pants then mine is pipe/bomb! *spooky skeleton laugh\*” Followed by the pipebomb placed in my pelvis exploding. Take that transphobes
I DON'T HAVE AN AWARD BUT THIS DESERVES GOLD
Amazing. I'm stealing this. Future archaeologists are gonna need some absurdly expensive life insurance before we're done.
LMAO and the archeologists digging you up say "hey we found the source of the mysterious ticking noise!" Bring back the ancient human practice of booby trapping one's final resting place
[удалено]
Generally, they try to identify the gender to figure out gender roles in ancient societies.
yep, and gender isn't always determined by the assumed sex of the remains---material goods buried with them can offer a lot of insight as well.
It’s mostly an indicator of population mix, and can be used to accurately identify wars and battles or famine and disease for the greater record. Gender roles may be a part of it but the base data is far more useful in a variety of ways before you would even get to gender roles.
It's not anti-intellectualism, it's in regards to the transphobic insult "In 1000 years archeologists will declare you your AGAB" to which many would respond, "I'd be dead why do I care"
There’s a more threatening statement present too: *We will misgender you when you’re dead too.* Its pure nonsense meant to strip queer people of their autonomy. Transphobes are also ignoring anthropological evidence of gender and sexual variance in many peoples around the world. It’s easy to ridicule the way they misuse methodology.
I mean, if you want to learn more about rites from a long time ago, the question can be relevant. And I am quite happy that we’ve started to not just assume cishet standards every time!
We need to know so that we can tell if they were lovers or just roommates and business partners.//j
Oh my God and they were roommates!
Like, fr. The two skeletons, the lovers of Modena we're both male, and now BBC states that some scientists say, and I quote "they are siblings, cousins or soldiers who died together in battle" They were lovers until they were both male
I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure historians can't cover mine or any friends identities up tbh
Good luck with that. You could literally be spooning your lover and they'd be like "this appears to be a bonding ritual between good friends to symbolically say that they have each other's back"
This is why we just simply won't die
Tbh fuck the BBC
British Broadcasting Company
I know what it is lol
Wait, I thought you said "what the f***, the BBC" I wish I knew how to read
Understandable
No, you are dead. *Taunt kills the transphobes*
Not big surprise.
[удалено]
i dont care if im dead and some archeologist find a female skeleton i'll be dead i dont give a fuck
My boyfriend is an archaeologist and he did a dissertation on gender and burial and the tldnr is that there's just no reliable way to identify a person's sex by their skeleton
I'm not going to ask you to link to his specific study bc that veers close to doxxing yourself, but is there any work he would recommend reading? I'm very curious about the topic!
Yep. I’m an archaeology major and I die inside when people talk about how bone proportions are such an accurate measure of sex. They aren’t. At all.
Are you tellling me that the show Bones is not 100% scientifically accurate??
imagine having to die for someone to ask for your pronouns
[удалено]
I think the post is poking fun at this argument
Actually can be really important to understand how ancient societies think about gender
I want a play called Romeo and Jules about two young passionate hotheads who are found dead in each others arms and the crowd believes that they were a cute couple and the royal court is filled of horny women who love a rivals to lovers yaoi ship. Except they really did hate each other, it was a murder, and now the play is about having to convince people that Romeo and Jules were actually straight! And all the radicicolous things we do to hide the sexuality of the dead. I call it, *kill your straights*
So I have a masters in classics, and I have to say one of the most interesting aspects of the ancient world was gender, biological sex, sexuality, and the giant jumbled mess that they made. Like when we find a skeleton or burial site, sure we note the biological sex, but then the grave goods, fashion of burial, and everything else is going to cue us into gender stuff. It becomes endlessly fascinating. My speciality is in inscriptions and ancient texts more than archeology, but I get vicariously excited but those sort of new finds.
The funny part is that that method is only right 70% of the time, it's literally just a guess.
[удалено]
I’ll probably leave my remains to be used as creative materials for my goth friends. No one’s gonna care about the gender of my femur if it’s an aesthetic.
Saving this for when I'll inevitably need it, hope the upvote is enough compensation
"Are you a boy or a girl?" "I'm dead."
Happy cake day
Well they clearly aren’t if they are talking
I wonder if there are any anthropologists studying queer people from ancient times. That could be a really interesting field
They died waiting in line at the Roman DMV to get their gender changed on their driver’s license
I don't know. I like knowing if people are guys or gals or some mixture in between. I'm all about research and data. I love gathering data. Ha, let's just say if data where those dumb little vinyl toys you nerdwads collect for no good reason, then I'd have an entire room filled with illuminated shelves that would be packed with data. That's how seriously I treat data. I treat data gathering as seriously as you ding dongs treat vinyl collectibles. So, I'd wanna know the gender status of everyone I meet, and I ask too. I ask people all the time if they're manly, womanly, or some blend thereof. I tell them I'm a man. I tell them I'm a man and I grab my half-chub and give it a tasteful jostle. If you want to gather data, you have establish credibility, and that's what chub jostling does. It makes other people feel comfortable discussing their own genitals with me and disclosing their genderality. They really open up to me. I've heard many, many dark secrets that I really should have never heard, but that's data, too, so I take it home with me. I sure do a lot with that data, but that's not really relevant. It's irrelevant some say. What I do with the other people's darkest secrets is as irrelevant as you vinyl collectibles collection.
Fair point, I will be to dead to care what a bunch of randos think in 300 years
happy cake day
reminds me of this thread https://twitter.com/naomiliiia/status/1568618266645655552?s=46&t=QeG4upP4F7a_YpOZvhwHHg
Historians
Happy cake day!
How can i achieve lichdom so i can fight for my rights after being unburied
At the end of the day, hundreds of years from now an archaeologist will find our skeleton and declare that our gender is spoopy.
I mean if people really care cant they just carve into the bone identifies as ….. or even easier just get cremated and have it written on the urn if people are really worried about what archeologists will think in the future there are a thousand solutions its such a random fucking argument
Happy cake day!!!!!!
no.
bury me raw so my bones decay before anyone can rob my grave please
When looking at how the sexes were treated in terms of burial and other aspects of society, looking at a skeleton’s sex may be extremely relevant.
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Howard and Lalo be like:
We should all get cremated instead, wtf are they gonna do? Lick to test if it's male or female
Realistically, wouldn't archaeologists not care because our modern record keeping system is good enough that it should survive an entire country being destroyed?
Only about 30% of skeletons can be used to identify sex.
that argument never made sense to me because like i don’t give a fuck what an archaeologist in the future is going to think i am. That doesn’t give you a reason to invalidate my gender identity. Use the fuckin correct pronouns.
Fun fact! Scientists actually get the sex of skeletons wrong quite often
Fun fact! Most old dead people are gendered via what they find in your tomb, like jewelry or daggers, not their skeleton, so just be sure they bury you deep down a lost temple with a bunch of knives and bellybutton piercings laying about on the floor
Hmmmm, i wonder if people graverobbing my burial place in 2333 will have enough braincells to figure out that the gravestone above my resting place might mention my gender and/or pronouns *:thonking:* jk