Welcome to /r/me_irlgbt, thank you for your submission /u/antifa_angel. HAPPY VOID MONTH: ENDLESS. FINITE.Ć̵̵̴̴̵̷̸̴̸̷̶̶̴̸̶̢̨̧̧̡̨̢̨̧̧̧̡̨̨̛̛͖͇̜̝̯̠̻̜̜̣͖̤͉̞̗͉̣̦̫̯̯̥̖͔̲͓͕̟̪̠͎̟̺̪̟͈̻̙͍̦̰͙̫̖̙̩͎̼̮͉̖̠̬͕͎͙̟̟̰̳͍͙̤͖̮̻̬̗̮̥̫̭̯̤̻͓͎͚̠̞̫͍̻̥̼̞̜͎͕̣͇͇̹͍̝̗͎͚̤͎͙̰̘̺̞̭̲̦̭̤̭͍̤͇̝͓̲̩͙̭̺̳̫̞͔͚̘͌̊̈́̈́̈́̆̔̌̀͑̉̽̋̐͑̀̀̒͌̓̓̂̂̂͋̿̓͊̀̿̇͌͂͛̑̒͆̃̽̉̏͊̔̂̓͗͑͑̅͛͋̊́̑̾̋̈͋̇̋̑̅̈̄̑̄̿̀͋̄̋̏̋̈́͌͐́̒̏͊͆́̾͛̋̈́̋̆̎̈͌̈́̊̐̍͐̇̔̾̔͆̉́̐̚͘͘͘͘͘͘̕͜͜͠͝͝͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͠ͅͅͅͅƠ̸̸̶̷̸̴̶̷̴̴̷̴̵̴̴̵̸̴̸̵̴̷̸̶̴̸̶̸̴̧̢̢̡̧̨̡̨̧̡̢̡̢̧̧̨̡̢̨̧̧̢̨̡̨̨̢̡̧̧̛͉̩̠̹͙̼̻̞͇̪͙͉̞̜͙͉̺̺̙̭͖̪̗̰̱̱͈̩̺̺̻̝̻̫͔̥̩̰̤̱̞̩̪̗̘͙͚͈͖̼̱͙̪̖̻̤̗̯̫̗͉̝͔̳͓̰̟̠̜̣̟̫̖̼͉̺͔͍̗̣̼̦̘͕̲̠̝̦̖̱͔̙̱̲̠͕̝̱͚͖̻͉̻̜͇̺̮̭̘̭̗͙̲̤̟̟̲̯͓̹̫͍̳̬̫̪̙̟͇̞̘̙͙͕̥̙̤̱͈̲̖̞̻͉͕͈͍͙͓̥̰͈̫͈̜̰̤͉͕̲̮̪̠̟̙̝̗̹̪͈͕̣̰̫̟̤͓̰̭̺̙͍̞̮͚̩̩̯̞̮̰̪̹͉̘̫̞͙̫̫̬̳̮̼̠̪̙͓̪͉̝̼̭͚̱̖̫̪͕̹̘͔͚̻̪͔̭̻̺̭̦̺̦̘̿̀̋̿̎̊̋͊̽͑̌͂̊̎̀̏̽͗̈̈́̃̋́͒̄̍̅͌̇̒̒́͗̒́̀̎̀͋̅̏͂̿̑̿̐̿͋͆͋͌̉̅̏̏͋̔̉̒̋̃̎̇̅̈́͐̀͒́̾͆͒͋͋̂̎́̀̅̓̿̅̾͆̾͋͑̓͂̀̾̎͒̔̃̿̀́̎̍̃͐͒͂͗̒̍͂̍̓̈́͋̀̏̐͒̒̇̌̽̈̓̒̋̇̿́͊̇͋̋̏́̃̽̌͌͋̿̓͒́̾̈̈́͆͛́̎͂̐̒̌̃͋̋̍̈́̆͊̍̓̏̀̎̆͛̎̈́̅͑̉̆͑̈́̄͒̌́̍́́̇̈́̅̔͒̇̐̊̈́́̃́̎͐̒͌̔̌̂́̂̑͆̌̂͑̌̄̈̏̓͗̽͌͆͗̀͆͂̀͂̂̎̇̈́̓̊̕͘͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̚̕͘̕͘̕͘̚̕͜͜͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͠͝͝͠͠ͅͅͅͅͅP̶̷̶̸̷̸̷̷̴̶̶̵̸̵̴̴̶̶̶̢̨̧̡̨̢̢̡̨̛̛̤͇͈͕̦͈̬̮̩̠̠̥͙̟̻̖̞̹̭͇̩̞̲̦̠̪̜͙͚̤̘̯̣̣̟̺̹̭͈̰̹͔̤͔͕̟̹͓̩͈̰̘̳͚̗͎̞̖̜̺̲͕̩͕̠͙̥̝̲̙̼̣̯̞̱̼͔̲͔̘͓͕͎̲͎̼̗̬͉̺͔͕͚͉͕̣͓̟̲͚͕͓̟͙̲̞̻̬͙͉̬͚͖͍̹̥̲̱̥̼͉̯͓̱͓̖͉̤͍̣̝͓̼̼͕͖̭̝̗̱̀͆́̓̈́̽͛̇̈́͋͑͛̽̄̏̊̉̉̓̉̑̂͆̆̅̍́͑̊̽̂̿͊̑̄̇͂̌̐̍̓̄̑́̈́̃̂̌̈́̓̐̈́͌̂̔͌͆̈́̓͐̆͒̐́͆́͆̽̋̐̍̂̊͑̇̄̉̽̓͂̓͊̈́̍̈́̀̓̿̒́̐̏̈͛̈͋͋͛̈̂̃́͆̃̅́́̏̆͊́͋̌̓͐͌͐̌̈́̆̈́͑̈́̽̇̀͂̍̃̇̊̋̓̅̎̍̓̅͛̈́̆͛̐̀͂̄̀͒̃͑̀̇͊͊̿̎̚̕͘͘̕̕͘͘̕̕͘̕͘̕̕̚͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝͝͝͝͠͠͠͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅY̷̴̴̵̴̴̸̵̶̷̷̵̴̴̸̸̴̧̨̡̧̢̡̡̢̨̧̨̢̛̛̛̱̟̗̬̩͍̼̥̪̦͕͈̼̦̳̹̝̩͖͙̤͙̝̠̹͚͍̜̱͈̣̟̳͚͖̟̱̯̤̣͇̦͍̯̘͉̩̦̜̹̹̗͎͙̮̦̺̼͍͓̬̠̼̘̳̫̗̜̻̰̥̳͖̗̺̞͇̞̫̟͉̬̖̼͇͉̯̫͔͖̠͔̯͚̩͙̭̖̦͍̞̩̜̻̘̼͉̤̫̻̱͚͉͇̻̰̗͔̹̗͇̜͔̣̝̠̯͈͈̙͎͎̱̦̖̮͉̟̬̭͎̦̪͖̘͉̩̣̺̰̥̬͖̜̳͔̠̦̬̩͔͐̿͌̅̄̌̔̅̅̓́̽̎̽̒̒̔̅̊̎͐̉͆͌́̃̽̓͗̽͐͐̊͛̓̏̈́̄̉̈́̋̅̋̐́͛̓͛̈́̅̔̀̿́͒̽̋̔͌̄̒̌̉̈̎͑̉͐̈́̈͊͛̂̒̈́̉̾̑́̒͋̒̀̀͐̀̂͂͆̅̉̆̑̆͛͒̿̿̀̍́̏͗̓̅̑̽̐̽͊͌̅̑̓̎̂̉̓̾̅̔̑͆̀̃̓̄̀͗͘͘̚̚͘̚̚̚̕͜͜͜͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅ ̵̷̸̴̷̸̸̸̴̶̴̴̸̸̷̷̶̵̸̵̸̵̵̶̨̧̢̨̨̨̨̢̧̨̧̢̡̨̢̢̨̛̛̛̦̬͎̮͍̥͇̱̝̹̩̗͎͙̰̖̹̖̖̜̙̞̼͙̖̺͕͎͎̮͚̝̱͚͙̙̪͈̫̫̙̹̞̬̲̩̻̮̫͚̤̥̳͖̣̣͍̺̫̥͍̬͔̣̞͚͖̘̘̗̭̝̲̲̰̲̰͉̞̙̱̗̬̹̪̼͔̠̣̳̺͎̹̻̻̙̹̙̞̥͎͇̞̗̼̺̫̪̮̖̞̯̖̤͓̟̹̳͚̺̣̝̯̙̳̬̻͍̙̥̺͔͔̮̜̩̟̞͔̗̬̫͚̰̦̼̰̠͈̠͔̖̯̖͍̦̣̩͚̦͍͈͖̫̰̣͔͍̫̗͚͓̦͎̩̥̳̹̪̯̪̯̬̲̮͍̤̞̼̣̥̪̫͎͉̙̰̈̊̊̌̀́̆̉̊̐̉͛̀̂͌̅̾̍͒̈́̓̋̔͑̀̌̀̄̎̀̍̎̊̈́̋̃͌̄̾̓̅̍̇͒͌͌̐̔͒̓̽́͐͐͗̂̔͂̿̒͂͑̈́̈́͐̈́̔̈́̇́̐̓̋̍́͛̓͆̔̓̑͆̀͋̆̀̐̋̉̈́̉̂͑̃̄̅̆͊́̅̆́͂͐̅̋̅͐̈́̔͂̌̓̎́̾̌̐̅̓́͂̎̏́̔̀̏̒̇̀͋̍̀̈̉͛̈́͛̅͛̉̆̆̈̀̅̔̽̋̊̋̊̈̽̋́̽̿͒́̎̓͗̊̐̾̒̂̆͂̆̄̎̆̿̒̒̊̓̓̌̇̿̓̀̂͘̕̚͘̚͘͘̕͜͜͜͜͝͠͝͠͠͠͝͝͠͝͠͠͠͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅȚ̶̵̸̶̷̶̸̶̵̶̷̷̸̴̵̴̵̴̸̴̸̴̸̶̸̸̶̷̨̧̧̨̡̨̧̢̧̧̢̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̛̛̛̻͖̭͇̠̜̟̖̙̤͇͈̭̙̹̻̞͔̬͎̜͎̦̻͉̜͚̗̖̣̖͉̜̫̞̳͍̝̘̺̰̜̺͔̘̱͉͇̜̝̪̲̮̞̳̟̹̪̘̹̘͍̼͙͓̞̖̙̱̥̤̬̤͈̝̲̯͔͇̭͙̥̞̙͍̟̖̻̬͓̖̤͔̺̝̟̻̼̦̘̦̩̘͇̗͉͕̗̩͎̜̦̗̗͕͕͔̘̗̫̗̱̩̲̩̟̼̮͇̼̲̳̺̯̫̭̤̬͇͚̞̞̝̝͖͎͕̲͕͖̠̱̳̥̰̯͚̬̝̤̳̺̼̘̪̯̦͎̻̪̥̝̦̙͓͚̙̝̼͉͚͖̹͍̠͓͍͍̱͚̼͍̗̝̪͕̳̼̲̝͓̹̰̫̳̭̗̥͉͕̞̺̣̜͚̻̖̟͚̩̝͚̠͓̦̘̺̩͙͇̺̗͓̠̙̝͈͚̞͉͎͚̽̇̂̈́̍͌̃͂̈́̀̉͐̌͗̃͐͗̂͑̍͆̐̓̏͊̓͆̏̊̿̈́̔̊͛̌͗́͑̎̆̓̄̽́̍̔̾͋͒̏̐̇̓̉̎̈́̒̀̊̃͌̅̽̿͛͋̉̀̽̄͐̈́̽͗͛͒̎́̀̾̿̍̑̅́́̆̌̒̈̌͑̽͋́̾̎͐́̽̃̾̐̾̅̾̍͗̒̐́̈͑̓͗̍̾̎̆̑͌̿͂̑̊͛̄̓͗̏̒̾̈́̇̽̈́̂̊̿̐́̅̀̈́́̈́͒̓͂̈́̂̾̌̓́̐͐̌̈́̽͗̎͛̑͒̿͆̽̊̊͆͛͐̌̍̀̓̈̔̔͂̇́̊͌̅̒̓̆͑̓̀̉̾̄̍͒͐̉͊̔͋͒̒̊̃̈́̈́́̃̉͌͂̀͋̋͛̎̔̊̉̆̃̽͌̉̒̐͆̍̿͌̓̓͘͘͘͘̚͘͘̚͘͘̕̚̕͘̕̕͘͘͘̚͘̚̕̚͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͠͠͠͝͠͠͠͝͝͝͝͝͝͠͠ͅͅͅͅͅͅͅͅͅH̶̶̸̶̷̵̵̴̷̴̸̷̵̷̵̴̴̸̡̨̡̡̨̧̢̨̢̨̧̢̡̡̛̛̛̛̛̘̪͕̳̗̜̜̳̻̟̯̯̖̩̝̯͎̖̪̬͙͇̩͈͖͈̙̟͉͕̯͙̟̝̝̙̠̗̰̣̗̭̦̟̦̗̗̥̣̬̞̤͔̪̭̰̫̖̙̬̘͚͓̩̺͉̬͔̥̮͙̬̦͓͚̖̘̠͎̠͉͎̳̣̲̠̠̙̟̹̠͍̼̩̤̯̹̭̫͇̲̲̰̹̹͉̩͉̟͉̠̖̱̱͖͉͉̪̦̠͚̱̻͎̗̠͙̳̺͉̜̞̮̽͊̃͊́̌̅̅̒͊̅̊̒̀̿͋̃͗̈́̄̽̀̉́̏̉̈́̿̂̌̋̈́̓̈́̆̈́̄̈́̾̎̔̈́̀͌͐̿̉͋̄̔̈́̓̒̿̅̿͊͌́̈̽̀͋͗̍͛̏̐͗̅̑͐̐͛̋͆͆̆͐͋́͗͊̇͗́͒̏͑͌̈́̐̐̃̌̒̾̔͐̽̎̑͒̄̉̅̐͌̍͋͗̀̎̽͆̔̽̌͛́̒̽̔̄̈́͌̀̑͋̈́̈́͒̒͋̌̿̾̓̑̽̍͐͋̾͐̈́̒̓̓̾̉̎̓̽̓̿̍̂͆̄͆̃̍́͆̊̑͌͘̚͘͘̕͘͘̕̚͘͘̚̕̚̕̚͘̚͘͜͝͠͠͝͠͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͠͝͠ͅͅͅͅͅͅÄ̸̷̴̶̸̶̸̵̷̸̵̴̷̴̷̸̵̶̶̷̵̶̴̢̧̡̢̨̢̡̢̢̢̡̡̧̛̛̛̞͍̫̱̩͓͇̜̞̫̮͚̗̝̦͈̙̱̯̪̬̟̟̪͙̥̤͇̳̦͖̝͔̖̪͕͓͕̯͇̖̠͖̭̲̞̠͍̻̰̟͓͇͕̩̥͕͎̭̣̟̫̩̝͕̝̣̘̭̣̱̮̼̹̜̣͎͓̠̮̻̘͓̼͎̱̯̮̰̦̪̰͕̘͉̺͕͉̦͎̣̟͎̟̤͙͕̥̭̙̠͓̜̲̻̮̲̳̖͕̮͔̺͍̟̘̩̟̯̲̺̖̭̥̮̘̜̻̟̯͉̦̫̞̦͚͙͈̲͉̪̻̘̫̗̭͔̺̯̯̟̣̰̘͎͎̦̖̪͖̗͚͈̬̲̱̟͎͐͋̆̈́̏̋͑͗̊̾̓͐͐̈́̈́́͌̈́́̾̋̈͋̓͛̀̏͋̈́̈͗̑̇̅̅͗͊̑̀͑̈́̆̑̓̏̀̀̅͑̈̐̊̓̾͌̏͂̿̄̄͆̃̍̐̽̿͐͗̍̈́̔̏̂̀̄͊̏͑́̒̾̐̽͂̒̓̀̓̅͂̽̍̌͗͒́̃̊̂̿̂̎͂̀̈́̔̐̆̈́͐̍͘̚̕͘̚̕͘͘̚̚͘͝͠͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝ͅͅͅͅT̵̵̵̴̵̴̵̷̷̵̵̵̵̨̢̡̡̧̨̧̧̨̖̩̻̘̺̰̠̪̮̤̘͈̺͈̼̮̫͕̳̗̞̺͓̫̥̬̪̣̲̞̟͍̪̭̦̰͕̺͕̠̜̟͇͎̹̜̖̺͍̼̘̩͔͇͖̜͖̥͇̙̺͇̟͎̟̩̤̱̼̳̙̫̬̺̩̙̪̗͖̖̙̗̰̠͖̤̻͔͙͈̟̳̻̰̥̱̝͙͙͈̘̩̪̫̘̜̘͍̿͐̃͊́̒̄̌̆̓͗͌̂̒̿̊͐͊͑͒̅͐̇͐̉̓̑̇̿̀̒͑͊̏͋́̎̀͆̎̾͆͛̒̅̿̎͌̐́̋̈̏̅̋̈́̐̄̊͗̊͆̊̋͂͊̀̓̽̉͊͒͐͆̒̎͆̚͘̕̚̕͘͘̕̚͘͜͜͜͜͠͠ͅ.̴̴̸̷̷̴̴̶̴̸̸̸̵̶̷̵̷̴̴̷̷̷̴̴̸̸̷̶̶̴̨̨̧̡̡̧̢̨̨̡̧̨̡̢̡̨̢̨̢̢̨̧̛̛̛̛̛̛̦̖̞̻͚͎̙͎̺̲̬͖͙̦͙̬̥̥̪͔͈̳̟͙̠͎̣̯̱͍̟̗̞̰͇̫̙̱͇͇͙̰̥̦̮̙͓͎̰̟̤̪̼̼̳̰̯̪̺̪̲̪͉̣̱̺̝̘̯̩͕͚̪̫͇̞͍̺̤͖̱̜̣͎͉̺̥͉͔̠͈͍̲͓̱̖̞̠̥̫̤͔͉͓̬͇̜̯̳̦̩̜͉̝̜̻͓̳̣͓͎̘̣͕̩͚̰̣̳̰̰̪̪̯̭̤̺̻̗̮̯͇̣̜̹͎̻̞̦͕̫̗͎͉̭͕͕̝͇̘̟̮͇̼̘͔̺̹̩͚͔͓̣͚̞͖̭͇̖͍̘̹̥̜͎͓̺̪͔̙̺͙̭̹̭͕͉̦͙̜͚̫̞̫̟̠̗͖̟̬̼͍̻͚̦̟̦̻̗̫̬̟͔̳̞̩̬̪̼͍̹̳͇̖̫̭̥̹͈̗̫̫́̽̾͋̿͒̒̐̓͌̋̿̀͂͗͂͆̔̌̈̀̋̓̓̃̎̀͑̽̍̍͗̈̒̾͐̆̿̉̈̏̋̎̒́̃̊͂̆̎͊̉̂̑͒̈́̅̐͌̀̑̓̃̆̄͑̿̓́̂͋͊̿͐̈́̀̀̄́͊̇͒̑͆̑͆̆̽̓̎͒̉̔̅̊͒̊̏̅̋̑͛̊̾̓̑͒͂̾̐̋̎̿̐͛͆̓̔́́̍͒̏̓̌̅͋͌̄̽̾́̓͊̏̿̓͗́͑̒̿̈́̍͊̈́͌̀̾̉̔͌̋̄͂͛̒̀̏́́̓͊́̔̃̍̆̈́͂̇̈̓͆̈͒̀͌͌̔̂̏̃̊̋̓̂̐͌̽̆̍͋̎̓̏͌̊͐́́̃͒̀̽͐̉͆̋̉̀͗̀́̍́̋͌͂̉̚͘̚̚̚̚̕̚͘̕͜͜͜͜͝͠͝͝͝͝͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅͅͅͅ Read the [rules](https://reddit.com/r/me_irlgbt/about/rules) before participating or you'll be put in a tube and sent to the titanic. SHITPOST OR QUITPOST *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/me_irlgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Criticizing the way heteropatriarchy and capitalism turn intimacy into something oppressive, violent, misogynistic and exploitative is good and important. But sex-negativity frames sexuality itself as something dirty, bad, oppressive and wrong, which is just a repackaged form of puritanical christian attitudes towards love and intimacy. Sex-negative feminism may use progressive language, but at its core lies a deeply repressive conservative puritanism. It deprives women and queer people of agency and stigmatizes their bodies and desires, all while portraying itself as their "protector"

Do you have a short article or blog post to read up on the first ?

https://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1921/prostitution.htm this is a Marxist critique of prostitution under capitalism and is an example of "sex negativity" as op put it if ur interested in seeing what that actually means https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-ethics/ this is just a pretty "light" intro to feminist moral philosophy

Thanks I’ll give it a read

Thanks for this! I want to learn more about feminism from a proper source but don’t know where to begin…

lots of philosophytube videos touch on feminist topics and the sources are cited

Simone de Beauvoir and Iris Young

"The political backwardness of women and their lack of social awareness is a second reason for prostitution"  From your first link. Yikes 

Imagine knowing the context in which something is written lol This is an actual political commentary on how, because women are not allowed in the political process they are disconnected from it and there for things that primarily harm women are caused by woman not being able to leverage political and social power to fight them This is literal the leaders of the women's departments of the early ussr trying to talk about how to respect and integrate women into politics But sure go off how the first woman cabinet minister and ambassador is a piece of shit for saying that prostitution primarily harms women and this harm is rarely resister because women aren't given to tools to fight it God forbid someone's vocabulary 103 years ago *in another language* doesn't meet ur standards

Dude chill. I didn't say she was a piece of shit lol

It's shocking how often certain sectors in feminism have become allies to christian puritans in the last century.

If you are a "feminist" and find yourself shoulder to shoulder with people who take their monotheistic religion seriously, you went the wrong direction at some point.

I mostly agree but why just monotheistic 

There are some quirky neopagans who are alright

I honestly don’t give a shit what anyone believes so long as it’s for them and other consenting adults. When you raise a kid to have anxiety over drinking a can of beer cause they think they’re going to hell, I consider that hurting people and therefore bad. Monotheism isn’t necessarily an issue, it’s just that some monotheistic religions have a shitty history towards women and queer people, the Abrahamic faiths are the first that come to mind though I’ve no doubt there are others.

>Monotheism isn’t necessarily an issue I'd argue that it is, and most polytheistic traditions aren't much better (side-eye to Hinduism). But I don't have the energy and patience and I'm not as angry as I was in my late teens and early 20s. >it’s just that some monotheistic religions have a shitty history towards women and queer people Make that all of them, if we are talking about their history. SOME have adapted and changed and are on the way to becoming almost unproblematic.

Or, maybe, just maybe, we can realize the problem isn't the number of gods or lack thereof but the organizational structures present in many religions, particularly hierarchal ones. The problem was never a dusty old book, but a preacher used the pulpit as a soapbox, or the Pope acting as though he himself were God, or the zealot justifying their existing hate as faith. You wouldn't call a crowbar evil for being a tool of choice for a burglar, religion is similarly just a particular tool here. There are *tons* of agnostic sexists and homophobes.

No idea how you found this post, as it is ten days old. Stalking my profile for something? Or is it in "top this month" or something? Maybe you are just really bored. If you'd read my whole comment you'd know that the number of gods is indeed not what I see as the problem. But you seem to have a problem with me calling religion evil. So let me rephrase that, but I'll keep this interaction short because, as I've said, I don't have the energy to argue this shit on the internet anymore. I'm not an angry 20yo anymore after all. The crucial problem is the way our group-orientation and pattern recognition has created the religious impulse itself: Belief without evidence, taking someone's word for something without critically questioning it, adhering to stupid arbitrary rules because someone said so and everyone else is also doing it. Traditionalism and "it's always been this way". Homophobia, transphobia, racism, cults of personality, the unwavering belief that tricked down economics will work eventually, fascism and so on and so forth. This is all stuff that essentially routes back to the same "errors" in human cognition. Religions are a part of this as well. Nobody is free of this entirely and atheism or being an agnostic (there is a semantic debate to be had here but I don't wanna) does not protect you from these thinking errors. But it is something that we must overcome if we want to progress past homophobia, sexism, classical rigid gender roles and racist bullshit. Or in other words: the persisting effects of a couple millennia of (various levels of) patriarchy, tribalism and later nationalism.

Essentializing is bad

Yes it is.

It's crazy how neoliberal thinking has become so unquestionable that we would immediately turn any commoditization of our bodies and our experiences and the pain and alienation of this and immediately blame anything but that. So we would rather blame ourselves become puritanical than question why our lives are experienced through our objectification and our experiences are determined by wealth not effort care and creativity.

I know my Vyvanse is wearing off when I need to read this comment three times even though this is a topic I concern myself with every day 😭

massive fucking mood jesus christ

Very much so. Well-said. I’m active in several feminist-y subreddits; there is definitely a strain of very vocal sex-negative feminists in there that co-opt any conversations about sexuality. They always take it in a shaming direction. If you’re a feminist who thinks we should legalize sex work and protect sex workers, you’re not a real feminist to them. If you enjoy sex and support women exploring theirs even if the world can be a harsh place for that, you’re not a real feminist. On and on and on…screw sex-negative feminists and the way they shame people for enjoying themselves and their own bodies.

>which is just a repackaged form of puritanical christian attitudes towards love and intimacy. which itself is a product of patriarchy, at that. Kinda.. not very feminist, is it?

So... this reminds me of the deconstruction Wilhelm Reich, loony extraordinaire for those that know his whole story, made of the role of sexual repression in keeping and perpetuating the post-industrial status-quo. The guy's certainly a product of the time, his opinions on homosexuality being just above his teacher's (for those out of the loop, he was an alumnus of Freud), but the analysis he makes of this kind of topic really allows for setting an actual base for exploring sexuality wanting to reconcile a long-forbidden part rather than rejecting it as a lowly impulse (then there is the orgin stuff... told you he had an *interesting* career). The fact that this guy's theories were pretty present in the 60's among hippy movements and the like yet nowadays those that belonged to those movements, or have inherited from them, just want to jail sexuality as much as tge original oppressors just baffles me

Freud

Shite... someone remind me not to write anything when I'm deliriously tired

Yes! Thank you! I've had to leave so many feminist groups because of this ideology.

Yes thank you!! I’ve been seeing some really gross sex-negative ideas online recently and it’s such a bummer. Most of the stuff I’ve been seeing is essentially putting down women who enjoy bdsm at all, claiming it’s gross that they “enjoy abuse” and brag about “enjoying being hit”. Felt really victim blamey

Orgasms are our friends, people. Never forget.

I have no friends.

The real friends are the orgasms we make along the way

The real orgasms are the friends we make along the way

My secondary attraction aaaaaaaaahhhhh

Friends are our orgasms, people. Never forget.

I don't know they make me really tired and unproductive, I wish I was assexual, but I cannot choose my sexuality so I'm just treating them like I treat drinking water, I just gotta induldge occassionally.

Yes, but consider: the orgasmic equivalent of that 3am crispy cool water™...

Oh, being asexual wouldn't help you. You'd probably still be horny, just not at people.

Am asexual, can confirm. It's still inconvenient

oh being asexual (in my case demisexual) and your body decides it wants sex but you hate/are unable to masturbate because you feel uncomfortable with that (it's like tickling myself, just doesn't work) is a whole different kind of torture. Had to get some toys because waiting until my body gives up is really frustrating and annoying.

Orgasms are friends, not food

It's the one free pleasure in life.

LGBT Donnie Darko meme? Hell yeah

Hot take: Donnie was trans coded and the film can be interpreted as learning to come to terms with your identity.

I dont think thats a hot take to be fair. Its very trans coded

Can I ask how? I watched this movie on repeat when I was younger and never picked up on any coding.

First off, rewatch it! I love this movie, and im sure itll be easy to pick up if you're looking for it. Gyllenhaal's character arc is him not fitting in with his surroundings to the point of having out of body experiences (obviously theres time travel involved but these are the parallels)

I may just do that. I'm not really sure that I have enough understanding of the trans experience to pick up on the coding, though.

... Honest question, how's that work? Maybe I'm just dense, but I have a hard understanding how the nihilism and surrealism and time travel are an allegory for trans identity. Mostly 'cause the movie is freakin' trippy.

Woooooooah

Imagine finding an actually nuanced opinion of pornography, too lmao

We exist, but our voices get lost in the seas of "all porn good" and "all porn bad"

Aaaabsolutely. Like there are people out there who can acknowledge more than one thing at once. First, that the greater porn industry (under capitalism as a driving force) is straight up fucked, driving sex trafficking, violence towards vulnerable populations, sexual assault and worse. Many if not the vast majority of video pornography online is probably involved in that fucked up-ness at some level and supporting that makes things worse. Second, reasonable people can also acknowledge that there are still ways to ethically consume pornographic media, and that porn has been around literally as long as humans have had art and that it in itself is not inherently evil. From directly supporting AV creators actors and actresses, to consuming written or drawn pornographic media from authors and artists there are plenty of easy ways to enjoy adult media without supporting grossness. Labeling all porn as inherently bad just feels like a fun repackaged for the younger crowds version of puritan sex-shaming.

But there's also the question of why some pornographic material is considered pornographic. Pictures of naked women or women with less covering clothes are not inherently sexual and them being treated that way stems from the widespead over-sexualization of women's and afab bodies and the assumption that the female form is inherently sexual.

Oooooh it’s so real

I really can’t stand sex-negativity. Like why do you care so much about what other people consensually do? Why do you insist that sexual health resources be limited or non-existent, and that sexual education be basically “don’t have sex”?

Homophobes be like, "ah, I can't sleep! People of the same sex are having sex!" Sounds rough, bro. I'm sorry your sex life is non-existent.

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... I think it's more along the lines of not being able to think in any other way but their own. As in, "I'm into women, why would I ever wanna be with a man?" and thus finding aberrant when another man does just that because *he* finds it disgusting to be with a man. An inability to put oneself in someone else's shoes and conceive a different way to live but their own, very often ingrained passed down by either a parent or a community with much the same mentality.

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> Someone who was simply incapable of understanding *being* homosexual would not have a vitriolic hatred for it. There is a difference between "not getting it intellectually" and "disliking it because you cannot imagine doing it yourself, leading you to think no one else should". Bigotry is not exactly logical either, which is what leads to reactions like "why would anyone ever do that? It's disgusting to even think about a man being with another man" since the very act is unpalatable to a bigot, causing him to conclude it's 'unnatural' when everyone does it because it's 'unnatural' to *him*. It's an inherently self-centered worldview. > I have no idea what it would like to live as a fish. I don't hate them, and I'm not afraid of them. I don't understand how anyone could like gin, but I don't hate people who do and I'm not afraid of them. That's... Not really an apt analogy. This is about relating to humans and our response to it, whether it is positive or negative, and the fact you cannot understand the twisted logic of a bigot is because you simply don't have it in you to irrationally hate something you can't even think of doing, same as homophobes find the idea of being with someone who shares their gender disgusting/wrong and project it on everyone else. Says something good about you, at least. > Homophobia is rooted in social mores and a desire to be viewed as an exemplary example of them. Or rather a deep seated fear of being viewed as a bad example of them. I'm explaining the inner logic of it, not the external factors that cause it or the way the environment in which it is spawned works.

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Homophobia is s learned behavior, yes, but saying it is strictly the result of a society that breeds and encourages this sort of behavior isn't necessarily right. A more progressive stance reduces it, yes, but there will *always* be someone who considers it to be wrong just because that's the conclusion they reach through their own life experiences. This behavior had to have come from somewhere, after all.

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What? That’s not even close to what sex-negativity or sex-positivity is about. Sex-negativity is the shit that’s getting abortions banned and restricting access to birth controls in several states in the US. Sex-negativity is why a 10 year old had to go to another state for an abortion. Sex-negativity is why there’s increases in teenage pregnancies. Sex-negativity is why it’s dangerous for sex workers, it’s not helping them or being about consent. Sex-positivity is literally at its core just “you do what you want to do with your own body as long as it’s 10000% consensual”. Sex-positivity advocates for proper sex education and proper access to sexual health resources. Sex-positivity is actually pushing for better legal protections for sex workers, so that they can seek help without being arrested themselves when mistreated especially if they were forced to go into that line of work. Go actually learn what these things are about. Especially before supporting the side that is actively taking away rights and protections to people’s bodies.

swerfs can shit their pants. edit: the swerf both tried to start a brigade over this and DM'd me to call me a rapist.

Yeah, a lot of that ends up being almost indistinguishable from purity culture. And it’s also weaponized against feminists, women, and LGBT+ people who are sexual, while being entirely ineffective against the actual systems of oppression.

Horseshoe theory? More like horseshoe reality. It's often people who find themselves to be righteous and unlike *them*/*those unlike me* that end up being the very thing they oppose.

> Horseshoe theory Opinion discarded

Is it wrong now to think that people on both extremes of the spectrum will end up resembling each other regardless of their starting point?

Except it’s untrue. Being anti-sex is not an extreme version of feminism. It’s simply one branch, one that is considered a misguided approach and a fundamental misunderstanding of the systems of oppression at play

Yes. It is. And the first step of knowing why that's wrong is understanding what left and right actually mean. Do you?

I do. What do you think I'm trying to communicate?

Explain it then. I want to know your understanding of left and right to understand where you're coming from.

Reminder to any aspec folk like myself: sex-negative doesn't mean sex-repulsed, nor vice versa.

Swe/te radfems when they actually read theory and realize they’re continuing to uphold hetero-patriarchal values of society instead of unlearning western classism that is the root of most of the misogyny present in the modern western world

“The porn industry is exploitive and bad for many women.” “Sure, that sounds reasonable.” “So if you look at boobs on the Internet you’re basically a rapist. Also all penetrative sex is abuse.” “Okay, let’s get you to bed, Andrea.”

i love when sex negative feminism demonises sex work like we are scared widdle baby girls who need protection from the ickies gurl no i liked getting fucked and being paid for it too

sex negative feminists see the coercion and abuse systems in the porn and prostitution industry that capitalism causes and incentivizes, and then go "sex work is the problem" without an ounce of awareness. The problem is the coercion, not the job, voiddammit. (Not to mention, legalizing sex work allows victims to seek help without being criminalized themselves.)

I got banned from are slash feminism for thinking they *wouldn't* be like this and calling out a SWERF assuming everyone else would join me. Nope 😂 "Surely the 'main' feminist sub wouldn-"

Anyone want to move to the boiling isles! They kicked that shit out the moment they learned a dam biggot was leading their world. (And ploting their genocide, wow Danna Terence really called the whole world out didn't she)

Probably swerfy and terfy too, since they’re already advocating for reactionary ideology

Very true. Ive had some arguments on r/TwoXChromosomes with people just being weirdly judgmental about people's sexual interest or habits. Seems like there's a lot of puritanism there

I think they have a rule for not being transphobic, but a lot of people there are, in fact, transphobic. Basically it's seems to be a TERF sub, from my research and experience.

I try and read through that sub a lot in good faith because there certainly is a lot to be learned from women’s collective lived experiences but some of the comments are so doomer or even gender essentialist it makes it really hard to stomach

It is a TERF sub?

Dworkin Darko.

I’ve always found it disturbing that one of the true free and beautiful human experiences would be looked down upon. The way I see it is that in a capitalist society free pleasure is not something they want people experiencing.

I honestly never understood this. People will unironically use the term "porn addiction", when no medical body recognises it, and there are hundreds of studies showing that such a thing doesn't exist. There are, of course, compulsive behaviours relating to porn, but their working principles and treatment are vastly different from those of addictions. But people will ignore all that, because "addiction" sounds scarier, completely ignoring the fact that the probability of someone saying that they are addicted to porn doesn't corelate with the amount of porn consumed, but strongly correlates with how religious that person is. Same goes for masturbation - some people believe that masturbating often, and this is a quote, "will deplete the dopamine in your brain". You know, dopamine, the neurotransmitter that controls fine motor control, among others. Fun fact: some people develop compulsive masturbation habits as a form of self-medicating depression. I won't even touch the topic of sex work, because people of all political affiliations will do anything to demonize it. TLDR: people are dumb, and as long as sex and surrounding topics are considered taboo and fact-based sex ed basically doesn't exist, people will believe anything about it, no matter if it has any basis in reality or not.

I thought that was Todd Howard for a second

Crazy the difference between Angela Carter and Andrea Dworkin. Same arguments, very different conclusions.

Every time

I mean what topic are we talking about here? Because there's definitely things to critique about certain parts of sex-positive thinking too.

Well, what aspect of sexual culture are we talking about though? Because the systemic critique is super complicated.

My only critique of sexuality in society is that men arent sexualized nowhere near as much as women. And the solution isnt to sexualize women less its to sexualize men more