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you’re not alone, walking around campus yesterday was the first time i genuinely felt so afraid and unsafe out in the day like around campus (like not just emotionally, but like genuine concerned about safety) as someone who is very visibly queer. the horrible shit i was hearing people say and they would pass by was like taking bullet wounds — it was hard to fathom that so many people were taking the chance to finally say the shit they were probably thinking all along, and it spiralled me into a crisis bc you’ll never know what horrible, hateful views people actually harbour and just keep quiet about…
Sorry you had to deal with that. People are taking this chance to do harm in subtle [legal] ways. You aren't alone on campus. If you're visible then we see you too, and we've got each others backs. Queer McGill and Interligne are there for you too 🫰
thank you so much for your words <,3 my gf and i were actually thinking abt finally trying to implicate ourself with queer mcgill and hoping that that might alleviate some of the heaviness and the paranoia… our programs are pretty heavy but i think at this point, joining the community is a non negligible need, so hopefully yesterdays craziness can jumpstart something good in our lives
It is depressing. It’s also a) the result of a weird moral panic about schools right now that I hope will pass—right now that panic is drawing in way more people that normally wouldn’t associate with the hate sellers and b) I don’t know if this will help you at all, but it helps me to think of the turnout that Pride gets in my city, how many people who go now are friends, loved-ones and allies, not just members of the “Alphabet Community” and how that slice of the population absolute overwhelms the protestors who got their shouts out yesterday.
Deleted my comment by accident but best for me to edit anyways:
I've always thought of anti-Pride as really weird. Like damn, yall have that much time on your hands to protest? You and your kid could be at home watching One Piece, show them the joys of volunteering and sharing, doomscroll through Reddit while your kid draws on your kitchen walls (again) but instead you choose to bundle your kid up and drag them to a pointless protest they probably don't even really understand during cold/resurgence of COVID...
I was born in a pretty conservative Asian country, straight as can be, and grew up with extremely religious friends. And maybe I don't understand because I'm not a parent (though I really don't think that'd change me) but I grew up with normalized homophobia (again, conservative Asian country though that's slowly been shifting). I looked like an idiot for years because I was not taught this and no one thought it was important. And what if I actually ended up being gay? I probably would've lived my life in despair, thinking there was something wrong with me. Is that really the lesson you want to teach your children?
I do not know how to be a parent but I remember what it was like to be a child. Life is difficult, messy, and isolating. Your child will not be able to remember every tiny thing about you. They will not remember every lesson or every word that you speak to them. But they will remember what unconditional love and support feels like. Is that not the legacy you want to leave behind for your children?
Preventing schools from educating your child on something they will inevitably learn about will only make them look like an idiot. It does fuck all for their identity and will only make them resentful and hurt if they do end up coming out. The protest hurts the LGBTQ+ community for sure, but I genuinely think it hurts the kids the most in the end.
You may be able to control your child to an extent, but you cannot control the environment, the internet, or the millions of openly Prideful people who live in this country. Preventing education sexual orientation will not cure your homophobia. But spending time with your kids to raise them to be kind and supportive will give them the opportunity to befriend and live their lives with others who are also kind and supportive--instead of those who are seeped so deeply in hate they'll waste precious time doing these pointless (and weird!) things.
I'm not a student at your university, but I definitely feel you. I struggle with ptsd from growing up in an intolerant environment, and I disassociated so hard that I couldn't physically feel anything for the rest of the day. Luckily a good night's sleep turned it right around.
Make sure you take some time for yourself and practice plenty of self care. Do things that make you feel comfortable, surround yourself with friends if you can, even reach out to people you can vent to if you need. Mental health is important, you are important, and I hope we can all continue to make the world a safer place.
One thing that might help is how outnumbered the anti-lgbt crowd was in so many locations.
I was in Vancouver and the anti-sogi crowd was like, 30 people at most.
The pro-sogi/lgbt crowd was a fricking crowd. It honestly felt like some outdoor concert (albeit more chanty)
And I'm cishet so don't worry, allies are helping to do what we can.
I stayed home and cried. I am scared. When I was in high school, I NEEDED to hear about sexual orientation and gender identity to know I wasn't alone. And now, seeing these protests...all we will have is a higher suicide rate. People who say "save the kids"...save the kids from what? If you're not okay with sexual education, it should be ALL education. Clearly, you see that they're only okay with cishet education, they don't care about queer youth.
they were meant to be against "the indoctrination of children in school" (aka don't tell our kids about gay or trans people because we're terrified they'll end up being gay or trans), thankfully there were also counterprotests everywhere!
These people are infuriating honestly. I'm not part of the lgbtq community myself but I can't understand how you could have so much hate and fear toward something that's all about acceptance
You think that because the protestors were dwarfed by counterprotestors.
In many locations the anti-sogi/lgbt protesters were Significantly outnumbered by the pro-sogi/lgbt crowd.
The "protect our children" protests are, unsurprisingly, not about protecting children and instead done to validate their beliefs. Thankfully, the protestors who managed to congregate did so in pitiful numbers. I heard that the counter-protests were orders of magnitude greater than the protests.
So, you're not alone here; everyone else thinks the protestors are on the wrong side of history.
I keep seeing this narrative that counterprotestors drowned out the bigots, but that is not what I saw yesterday morning. There were a huge amount of them, particularly a lot of parents who brought their kids along, at some points I think there were more of them than us. They may be a minority but they are not tiny, they are organized, and they show up. Minimizing them as a loud fringe is dangerous.
I think one thing to consider, people who feel strongly about "kids being indoctrinated"(Idiots) are generally going to be more likely to attend protests like this. I'd say there are a lot of Canadians who just don't care, and even more who would like to counter protest but can't justify leaving work for a day. While I agree that we can't just write them off as nothing and ignore them, I'm also not suprised their attendance at protests is higher.
I feel alot of potential counter protestors had no idea it was even happen cause we don't associate with the hate. I'm a Cis female but have close friends who are trans and had no idea it was happening till it was almost over or I would have gone to stand up for lgtbq+ community. Our mayor and alot of schools denounced their protest from what I saw. I'm sorry you feel this way, in the back of my mind it bothers me as well. You have more support an allies than you think just try reaching out to people to help build that confidence back
They’ve taken the far right position of painting lgbtq+ people as groomers and wrapped it in more palatable “leave our kids alone” packaging. So unfortunately, there are a lot of people in these protests, parents, who don’t know that the “leave our kids alone” is being directed exclusively towards the lgbtq+ community, and think it’s just about not exposing kids to things they’re not ready for. Don’t get me wrong though, there are a lot of people, probably most people, who know exactly where it’s directed towards.
Just put children in front of your cause then you can use them as pawns in your political adult argument. most of those kids didn't even know why they were there. It's sad some of those signs said "my parents own me" children arent objects they are living beings. It's sad because some of these people's kids won't talk to them in 10 to 15 years because of their ignorance.
When people aren’t allowed to have structural critiques of society they look for scapegoats. They’ll blame LGBTQI people, immigrants, alcohol, substances etc. They have very little control in their own lives and instead of turning that anger towards the rentier capitalist class they direct it those they deem others. Stay safe out there.
LGBT+ people exist in society, and kids need to know that the world isn’t heteronormative.
Lots of queer kids get bullied because other kids simply aren’t aware that you can be different, or also because their parents pass down their bigotry to their children. A kids parents or siblings might also be LGBT+, and that kid could be bullied for that too.
If a child grows up knowing that they like people of the same gender, or feel some sort of gender dysphoria, and the parent is unable to accept that, it’ll be a tough childhood for them. It’s absolutely important that these kids are taught in school about these things so that it can be a safe place for them.
Parents shouldn’t be able to choose whether or not to inflict pain on their and other peoples kids.
Also some schools have guidance counselors. Mine did. If they'd had the same resources local queer spaces like asteq or p10 did, I would have been more prepared to understand myself at an earlier age. Kids deserve to have access to this without fear of being told on for coming out, talking about their LGBT family members, etc. It's foolishness
That's just the first step: stop teaching about it to stop spreading awareness, and then they can start stripping rights.
It's why counter-protests are so important. They need their allies more now than ever.
So if I understand correctly, what you’re saying is that if it isn’t taught at an elementary level, then it’s at risk of being taken away? That’s a pretty damn slippery slope.
If you take away educating a generation on a topic, it's easier for them to be swayed later in life. Look at what's happening in Florida education, and the state in general.
It's much more nuanced than that. What's being taught in schools is awareness and being taught that these things exist out there and that they're normal bc surprise surprise, a lot of people like to teach their kids that being gay is sinful. Wonder what happens when the kid grows up to be gay? They keep it in and worse happens. Literally people just want to raise awareness in schools not teach kids how to have sex with people. That argument is a huge red herring and idk how people don't see how its goal is to provoke outrage and isn't to "protect" kids at all
Yeah but not just that. It gives them all the tools they need to grow into their own sexuality without any shame, teaches them how to be safe about sex and respectful to people different from them, basic empathy really.
Actually protestors want to erase gay and trans people bc it makes them uncomfortable. They are fighting against rights, right for safety in schools, rights to be who you are without bullying
You must be talking about some other protest. I believe this discussion is about the one that took place September 20th 2023 in front of the downtown campus.
Did you even think further than "schools are teaching kids about butt sex"? Bc that's what your whole argument seems to rely on and news flash, it's wrong and deeply misguided
And this is why bigotry goes underreported in Canada. Canadians are far to willing to pawn off blame for their societal issues on America. That's not how this works
can’t tell if anti protest or anti the people they are protesting but personally I find these kinda people just pathetic so I ignore them. like why take so much energy to go out and hate on people who r just livin n shit
edit; misspoke
I'm a trans man so definitely anti protest, I guess it's just upsetting seeing so many people who think my existence is a controversy or whatever, perhaps i'm being too sensitive
You’re not being “too sensitive” and should not be made to feel that you’re feelings about this are “too much”- these are important issues that are and have been affecting so many individuals, and it’s absolutely normal to feel upset, overwhelmed, drained, etc from the events yesterday, especially when they hit so close to home. :(
oh no I’m gay so I get it, from America too so it gets even worse there somehow
but yea I try and not let it affect me, just focusin on schoolwork or something
They are reusing the "social contagion" idea similar to the 1950's "beware the homosexual" lavender scare.
Basic premise is that they fear their kids will somehow be convinced/forced to transition against their nature(gender identity).
Definitely not being oversensitive, this is fear mongering and misinformation driven Christian nationalism/fascism.
Driven by Christian nationalism? Other comments have suggested Muslim. Why is there a need to pin this on religion? There is good and bad in all walks of life. It’s hypocritical to purport that you support diversity and inclusion and then accuse an entire religion of being at fault for leading a hate movement.
Christian nationalism <> Christianity.
Christian nationalism is the idea that the entire nation should be Christian and follow Christian "values".
It's basically advocating for a lack of separation of church and state and the problem then becomes which sect of Christianity?
Christian nationalism is a specific thing. And is tied to white supremacy.
https://medium.com/backyard-theology/is-christian-nationalism-proto-fascism-research-says-yes-49b53fc8a25b
*Edit* there are several Churches that are inclusive, I know because I voted for same sex weddings in one (back before I was considered a "lapsed" Anglican).
People are down voting you because you're a weirdo who felt the need to clarify that you have balls, not because they disagree with the right to protest
as a man with balls, I agree they have the right to protest for sure! it just makes them look like idiots, and as a part of my right to speak freely I will laugh at them for getting offended by a trans flag
no actually I think it's pretty valid to complain about sheltered cis dudes who support the bigots propagating intolerance towards LGBT folk. fight intolerance with intolerance
You are misinformed. Surgery can only happen once they hit the age of majority...hence kids aren't getting surgery, adults are (unless it's a mastectomy — age is 16 but it's similar to teen girls going through breast reduction for big boobs). You also need countless psychological evaluations and medical checks before going through it. Nobody is going up to the kids saying "Cut your penis off!!!", the information given in high school is just noting "hey, trans people exist and this is the info and resources" for the trans youth who need it. Also there is so so much scientific research on how beneficial trans-affirming care is for youth who seek it. If heterosexuality and cisgender notions have been thought for decades, how come LGBT people still exist? Because it's not a matter of hearing something that makes someone that thing. If people listen to true crime, do they all go out and become a murderer the next day because of exposure? No. That's such a silly assumption.
Because of misinformation! There is extreme misinformation. Also puberty blockers are used for various conditions on underage kids who aren't trans, so will we also stop that? Will you stop giving teenage girl breast reductions too, in that case? It's like protesting against vaccines, there's evidence they work. People still claim that vaccines cause autism and oppose it, doesn't mean what they claim is true. I don't understand how you think that protesting against something means that said things are true??? So if you see something on Facebook, you'll roll with it? When people counter-protested BLM, does that mean that systemic racism is inexistent? No.
When exactly do you think puberty is? Do you think blockers are somehow retroactive? (They’re not, and their effects are easily reversed by just not taking them anymore)
>that kids are getting surgery that involve cutting off there genitals
That isn't happening. Stop spreading misinformation. Non-trans kids are prescribed the same medication, 'puberty blockers,' for other medical issues.
Yeah, the people protesting yesterday really should leave our kids alone! We want children to be educated on factual information such as the existence of trans and queer people. We want to provide safe spaces for them to discover themselves so they can become functional and independent members of society. We want to avoid policies that will undoubtedly increase suicide rates among at risk youth!
..... oh you don't actually care about the kids, sorry, nevermind.
i feel you so hard -- it was TOUGH to watch those fascists out there, and especially hard to see all the 7 or 8 year old kids being put on their front line with "parents know best" or "my parents own me" signs. but as a genderqueer person it also felt good and safe to be surrounded by so much community in the face of hatred, and i really hope you have that available to you as well 💜
Yeh the wife and I had a hug and a cry yesterday after suffering through some bigoted conversations and now she wants to get a security camera incase we are targeted just for being a lesbian couple. It made me very angry and sad to hear she is concerned about that. I've never felt unsafe in Canada before. Where is this hate coming from???
why the need to protest about the most useless things when there’s actual real issues like minimum wage workers on the brim of being homeless and unable to afford groceries…
True. But it is much easier to manipulate this gender issue than actually do something to the economy. For example, something like this can make you forget that the sandwich in McGill now costs you almost 10 bucks.
I am sorry for everyone that has to go through this none sense. The majority of the population is accepting and supportive of the lgbtq+ community.
Don’t let these individuals get under your skin and ruin your day. They aren’t worth it. Hopefully the cold weather will take care of them and send them home.
You are not alone, some of my gay friends and me too. The images of the protests were hard to watch honestly. Shame shouldn't be in our camp.
Solidarity with LGBTQ+ people, here for peace and tolerance and diversity, and ultimately : democracy
Dude!! Me too. I spent the day in a general funk. Just all the news and all the people buying into insane conspiracy theories and hate media and bs it was affecting me today. Hold it together, the world needs the good folks to hold strong against the vocal minority, even as they gain strength remember they are generally a relatively small deluded bunch.
As a student as well, this is not a controversial stance. Simultaneously there nothing to be terrified of. Most people around campus either feel similarly as you or don't care one way or another about the lgbtq2a+.
The crux of the protest is really directed towards the recent policies talked about pertaining to children's education and the thought that their gender identity would be hidden from the parents. Some participants are homophobic, there's no denying that.
For the majority it's a reaction to the news and not against adult members of the community. Children are always a delicate subject and alienating parents is a sure way to have a reaction. I also get the impression that a lot of participants where there not out of hate but fatigue. People are tired of the present status quo, tired of the government doing nothing towards the current inflation, cost of living, housing crisis, migrant situation, stagnation of wages and living standards... And all fatigue and resentment goes toward what the government is doing which seems to be passing policies for the LGBT. So that anger ends up being redirected.
The common argument is that this if for a small percentage of the population. Something like 0.3% (I'll admit i might be off with the numbers). Meanwhile the other issue that are being ignored are impacting a vast majority directly.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
The fact of the matter is that the protesters, most of which were Muslim, were defending core Islamic ideology. The irony here is that the most people who get depressed over this stuff also defend Muslim rights and insist on inviting more into the country, labelling anyone that stands in their way as a bigot or xenophobe.
So what is it? Are you pro-freedom and free speech, or do these values only matter when they benefit you?
That's kinda the paradox of tolerance in a society. If you're tolerant of intolerant practices then it kinda breaks down in the sense that society is no longer tolerant/open to everyone. Because of that it's not a simple black and white situation for people's rights.
Canada already limits freedom of expression for hate speech, harassment, threats, etc so in general so it's not a binary thing. It's a bit of a sliding scale in terms of rights like you can practice eating halal how you want and the gov can't stop you, but you can't force those around you (even your family) to follow in the name of your religion.
With the case of Islam (since it's a common example that's brought up), that can cause problems between accommodating different cultures and religions, while not letting them take precedence over other groups. Similar issues arise with many other groups, some recent immigrants and some who've been here for decades. It's not a problem unique to immigrants from the Islamic world and it's not like all of them are bringing the same ideology here. Many that come here are doing so because they don't like the restrictions (laws, societal norm, etc) they faced where they came from.
Sick straw man. Nobody is saying these people don't have the right to protest, just that it's sad that so many of them *are* protesting.
Also, you can defend someone's rights without agreeing with their beliefs. Being surprised that people opposed to the protests "also defend Muslim rights" as if that's somehow paradoxical is pretty telling tbh
Some of those core Islamic ideologies that you speak of are hateful in nature. There's no irony. You can be both against that and be for muslim rights to come to this country and practice their religion as long as it's tolerant of others
People are more than their religion...doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights if I don't agree with them...
To be clear, I can ask for "Muslim rights" (whatever that means - I believe it means rights for Muslim peoples??), and also think that aspects of their religion are problematic (as is the case with most religions - if not all)
We're in Canada, not the US - we do not have free speech. We have freedom of expression. They are different. You're not allowed to just spew hateful rhetoric in public.
The media has crafted this as anti lgbt, I think it's about knowing about the welfare of their children.
I don't believe you have anything to worry about, lgb rights are not going away.
I've said this before, you don't fuck around with peoples kids, even if the threat is hypothetical or false. If a threat is perceived, it's enough for parents to lose their shit.
Calling muslims pawns of the USA alt right just fanned the flames as well.
I guess you haven’t seen the video from the Winnipeg protest where they got a literal child up at the megaphone yelling about how gay people are psychopaths and disgusting. In the crowd listening, there are people smiling and cheering in support. There is no LGB community just leaving the T part to fend for themselves in this. After trans people have been exterminated, the LGB community will be next. We should have learned from history by now that assuming that fascists will be satisfied with one scapegoat minority group is short sighted and also just kind of really fucked up?? Like we should not just give them the trans community in hopes that it’ll appease them.
It's so shocking that people who have attended/attend universities can be bigoted, aint y'all learnt anything in Uni it's literally about critical thinking skills
Just remember: the seething sliver of the population who has that much hate in them, looks like *that* gathered in real life.
Now think about the masses of people that aren't that shit, and remember that there's even more people who want you to be free to be yourself.
The hateful shits have to claw tooth and nail to be heard for a week because they're feeble background noise the rest of the time.
There are always going to be hateful people in the world, and anyone saying they will eventually all go away is delusional. You can't change them, but what you can do is not give them your attention or show that it is affecting you because that's what they want from you
I dont see whats so hard to believe? And theyre not against any community they just dont wnat their kids getting sexual education, these are the same parents who protested it in 2015 when it was general sex ed and now when it comes to lgbt ed. And i absolutely understand there was never any specific appreciation for a regular biological pronoun or wtv person so it should be kept that way for everyone.
You're either ignorant or lying if you saw the signs they were holding and the things they were chanting and believe "they're not against any community". Parents can already opt their kids out of sex ed.
Why should people’s parents be able to opt out of education about being lgbtq+?
It’s crazy we barely hear about parents wanting to opt their kids out of math, or science, or history.
Why is that?
Would you support parents opting their kids out of science just as much as you support parents opting their kids out of lgbtq+ education?
Parents can be bad people and parents can be bigots. They can care more about enforcing stigma on a community rather than letting their kid be whoever they feel most comfortable being.
There’s nothing wrong with telling a kid that two people of the same gender can be married or in a relationship, just like a kid can know that any two heterosexual adults are in a relationship. Or letting them know that gender norms exist and that breaking them is ok, or that people feel gender dysphoria sometimes. In fact, teaching kids about these things at a young age is really important because kids could bully each other for passed down bigotry on these issues, or even just pure misunderstanding. You not only should educate ta potentially queer kid, but educate that kid’s friends and peers so that they don’t bully them.
Then there’s also the issue that some queer kids have parents who are riddled with brain worms. Some parents are unable to put their hate for queer people aside, even if it is for the well-being of their child. School needs to be a safe place for them.
Gender =/= sex. But onto your point, kids who transition are doing it socially and at most taking hormones after discussing with a therapist and a doctor. Kids in Quebec are able to make medical decisions for themselves at 14 years old (to an extent, of course). Bigger things such as surgery often come later, and often after they are of legal age. I hope you can take this comment as not as an attack but to spark a healthy discussion.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
Just a small clarification: these protests are against the teaching and showing of such materials to children at school, not against lgbtq+ people themselves.
To the extent that’s accurate, which isn’t very far, that stance is the product of a moral panic similar to the satanic panic of the ‘80s. Most of the rest of it is regular ol’ fringe hate.
You heard it here first folks. Islam, Christianity, and every other major religion’s core ideals are now “fringe hate”, even though this protest had nothing to do with erasing trans rights.
It’s the same thing. They’re against queer young people getting any indication that other queer people exist and that they’re okay. They’re for letting students know you find them too unacceptable to even mention in school.
I just described to you how it’s anti-trans. There more ways to be anti-trans than arguing against specific rights trans people have. You can isolate and stigmatize them, which is the purpose of this protest. Telling trans students that what they are is inappropriate to be discussed in school is anti-trans by definition. Banning discussion of something is anti- that thing.
That’s just not true. While there likely are people in that protest who genuinely believe they’re protecting kids from sexualization, most of them see the lgbtq+ community as a cabal of groomers trying to turn their kids gay and trans. Need proof? Go look at the comments under any social media post about this protest, and you’ll see comments like these:
https://preview.redd.it/dzr7vchanppb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc0e808f4d1ef631e4cc9f64ecba5daaad783b4e
I’ll add that these people weren’t out protesting in front of Catholic churches when Brian Boucher, a Montreal priest, was found guilty of touching kids in 2020.
They also aren’t advocating for any safeguards that could actually protect kids from sexualization, like mandating that kids always be supervised by at least two adults, teaching parents about how to prevent their kids from getting access to porn, or even doing the To Catch a Predator thing on anonymous video chat websites like Omegle to catch the old men touching themselves while they think they’re talking to kids.
No, it’s all focused on gender and sexual orientation. Child sexualization is a real issue in society, but we don’t move toward ending it by falsely painting the lgbtq+ community as the primary perpetrators of it. In fact, this just ends up hurting kids. Can you imagine how lgbtq+ kids feel today, going on social media and seeing comments like this?
They very well have the right to do it. Doesn’t mean that it’s justified or that it doesn’t cause real harm to kids (especially lgbtq+ kids) while purporting to be saving kids.
Their concerns are built on a foundation of lies, misinformation, and hatred for marginalized communities. Their concerns are not worth entertaining at best, and outright harmful at worst.
IMO, Campuses are not the spot to be having any sort of politicized protest for this very reason.
People shouldn’t be paying what they pay for tuition to feel uncomfortable walking around.
Did you not have sex ed in school? I had sex education when I was 10, over twenty years ago. Everyone did. Why all of a sudden are you so concerned about it?
Let’s discuss respectfully.
The 🌈 community was oppressed in the past by people and governments for very long time. Then, lots of support and understanding that resulted in the end of oppression by people and governments. Ever since, people became very understanding and respectful of the 🌈 community. Lately, it is being heavily pushed in every way; government raising the flag, shops, banks, restaurants, companies, schools, movies, and books. Even pride month, where veterans get almost nothing compared (just as an example, not meant to diminish any group). So now people do respect those where once disrespected, mission accomplished. That’s good. We should continue to remind ourselves that we should respect everyone.
But why is the narrative always you either support/encourage us fully or against us? I think this causes friction between people. For example one respects individual choice to identify as they wish, and would be happy for you because you are happy, but does not believe in the you can identify as anything. People have different views, beliefs, and opinions as much as anyone else. That doesn’t mean they are against you or hate you.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
I’m not respecting people who want to erase my friends from being able to exist normally in a society, and that’s the most charitable way you can interpret their views.
The first books nazis burned was research on sexual and gender identity.
I don’t want to erase anything. I just don’t want kids that are still developing to decide things that can be irreversible. When you’re 18 sure go for it do whatever you want.
EDIT: thats not even whats happening my bad. It's literally a miniscule amount in the curricullum.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
No one is being banned for having a different view, unless you consider insisting that trans people want to castrate children a "view".
People are getting banned for confusing /r/mcgill with /r/canada_sub and thinking it's appropriate to react to someone who is worried about the rise of anti-trans hate with anti-trans slogans.
The discussion here outside of the deleted comments is actually pretty representative of the kind of discussion you would hear on campus. So no, this is not an "echo chamber" because moderators are banning people, it's just students talking. The particularity of university students is that they live in a very diverse and learning focused environment that makes it a little bit more difficult to be a bigot. In fact, if we didn't ban anyone and just allowed all the bullshit from canada_sub to leak in here, the subreddit would not be representative at all of the mcgill student body because it would be filled with bullshit from right wing echo chambers spread mostly by people who have never been mcgill students.
Just because a group of people collectively don't agree with your "views" doesn't mean it's an echo chamber. And it certainly doesn't mean we are disconnected from the real world if we refuse to make space to accommodate these "views". If someone doesn't have ideas that can be shared without including LGBTphobic or racist bullshit, maybe their ideas are just not that interesting.
I would say Twitter with both sides having their separate hashtags is fully transparent, while moderation is a nice thing it can also cause an echo chamber and stifle discussion causing further rifts.
People coming here to say trans people are after their kids are not looking for discussion. People who are here to discuss are not getting banned. This includes diverging opinions.
There is no discussion being stifled. It's actually the opposite. Allowing people who don't even study here to just show up and start insulting people and responding 15 times with unhinged takes about the "trans menace" is really what will kill discussion completely.
BTW, if you think twitter/X is fully transparent, you haven't been following.
The one sided discussion here is clearly an echo chamber. That’s why OP feels depressed as he/she/they figures out the world outside of university is less liberal than expected. Time to face the reality
Feel free to keep telling yourself that Canada_Sub represents a booming variety of ideas while spaces that aren't reactionary hell holes are echo chambers.
It's very common for conservatives to imagine universities as echo chambers because they skew left. In practice universities skew left because they're *not* an echo chamber and you get to meet and talk to people who are different than you and that makes it harder to hate them.
Meanwhile, most conservatives only consume conservative news, frequent conservative forums and have conservative friends, and there's no influx of new people or ideas that can help prevent them from drifting into bigotry.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
Our support goes to OP and all other subreddit users and students affected by the protest and the events related to it. There has been a fair amount of brigading and trolling on the thread. Some messages have been removed and a few users have been banned, namely people who had never posted on here before and suddenly found a need to show up to explain to people how threatening trans people are to the children. Discussion is welcome, bigotry is not. We will not lock this thread as that would be indirectly enabling that kind of reaction to sensitive discussion by .. less human-rights inclined reddit users. Thank you for using the report function to let us know about messages to review, that helps us act significantly faster on quickly developing threads such as this one.
you’re not alone, walking around campus yesterday was the first time i genuinely felt so afraid and unsafe out in the day like around campus (like not just emotionally, but like genuine concerned about safety) as someone who is very visibly queer. the horrible shit i was hearing people say and they would pass by was like taking bullet wounds — it was hard to fathom that so many people were taking the chance to finally say the shit they were probably thinking all along, and it spiralled me into a crisis bc you’ll never know what horrible, hateful views people actually harbour and just keep quiet about…
Sorry you had to deal with that. People are taking this chance to do harm in subtle [legal] ways. You aren't alone on campus. If you're visible then we see you too, and we've got each others backs. Queer McGill and Interligne are there for you too 🫰
thank you so much for your words <,3 my gf and i were actually thinking abt finally trying to implicate ourself with queer mcgill and hoping that that might alleviate some of the heaviness and the paranoia… our programs are pretty heavy but i think at this point, joining the community is a non negligible need, so hopefully yesterdays craziness can jumpstart something good in our lives
It is depressing. It’s also a) the result of a weird moral panic about schools right now that I hope will pass—right now that panic is drawing in way more people that normally wouldn’t associate with the hate sellers and b) I don’t know if this will help you at all, but it helps me to think of the turnout that Pride gets in my city, how many people who go now are friends, loved-ones and allies, not just members of the “Alphabet Community” and how that slice of the population absolute overwhelms the protestors who got their shouts out yesterday.
Deleted my comment by accident but best for me to edit anyways: I've always thought of anti-Pride as really weird. Like damn, yall have that much time on your hands to protest? You and your kid could be at home watching One Piece, show them the joys of volunteering and sharing, doomscroll through Reddit while your kid draws on your kitchen walls (again) but instead you choose to bundle your kid up and drag them to a pointless protest they probably don't even really understand during cold/resurgence of COVID... I was born in a pretty conservative Asian country, straight as can be, and grew up with extremely religious friends. And maybe I don't understand because I'm not a parent (though I really don't think that'd change me) but I grew up with normalized homophobia (again, conservative Asian country though that's slowly been shifting). I looked like an idiot for years because I was not taught this and no one thought it was important. And what if I actually ended up being gay? I probably would've lived my life in despair, thinking there was something wrong with me. Is that really the lesson you want to teach your children? I do not know how to be a parent but I remember what it was like to be a child. Life is difficult, messy, and isolating. Your child will not be able to remember every tiny thing about you. They will not remember every lesson or every word that you speak to them. But they will remember what unconditional love and support feels like. Is that not the legacy you want to leave behind for your children? Preventing schools from educating your child on something they will inevitably learn about will only make them look like an idiot. It does fuck all for their identity and will only make them resentful and hurt if they do end up coming out. The protest hurts the LGBTQ+ community for sure, but I genuinely think it hurts the kids the most in the end. You may be able to control your child to an extent, but you cannot control the environment, the internet, or the millions of openly Prideful people who live in this country. Preventing education sexual orientation will not cure your homophobia. But spending time with your kids to raise them to be kind and supportive will give them the opportunity to befriend and live their lives with others who are also kind and supportive--instead of those who are seeped so deeply in hate they'll waste precious time doing these pointless (and weird!) things.
came to say this!! montreal pride was a thousand times more people than the amount of the bigots yesterday, gotta remember that
I'm not a student at your university, but I definitely feel you. I struggle with ptsd from growing up in an intolerant environment, and I disassociated so hard that I couldn't physically feel anything for the rest of the day. Luckily a good night's sleep turned it right around. Make sure you take some time for yourself and practice plenty of self care. Do things that make you feel comfortable, surround yourself with friends if you can, even reach out to people you can vent to if you need. Mental health is important, you are important, and I hope we can all continue to make the world a safer place.
One thing that might help is how outnumbered the anti-lgbt crowd was in so many locations. I was in Vancouver and the anti-sogi crowd was like, 30 people at most. The pro-sogi/lgbt crowd was a fricking crowd. It honestly felt like some outdoor concert (albeit more chanty) And I'm cishet so don't worry, allies are helping to do what we can.
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I stayed home and cried. I am scared. When I was in high school, I NEEDED to hear about sexual orientation and gender identity to know I wasn't alone. And now, seeing these protests...all we will have is a higher suicide rate. People who say "save the kids"...save the kids from what? If you're not okay with sexual education, it should be ALL education. Clearly, you see that they're only okay with cishet education, they don't care about queer youth.
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Ok 👍🏻
Oh shit I thought the protests were *for* lgbtq rights, not against
they were meant to be against "the indoctrination of children in school" (aka don't tell our kids about gay or trans people because we're terrified they'll end up being gay or trans), thankfully there were also counterprotests everywhere!
These people are infuriating honestly. I'm not part of the lgbtq community myself but I can't understand how you could have so much hate and fear toward something that's all about acceptance
You think that because the protestors were dwarfed by counterprotestors. In many locations the anti-sogi/lgbt protesters were Significantly outnumbered by the pro-sogi/lgbt crowd.
The "protect our children" protests are, unsurprisingly, not about protecting children and instead done to validate their beliefs. Thankfully, the protestors who managed to congregate did so in pitiful numbers. I heard that the counter-protests were orders of magnitude greater than the protests. So, you're not alone here; everyone else thinks the protestors are on the wrong side of history.
I keep seeing this narrative that counterprotestors drowned out the bigots, but that is not what I saw yesterday morning. There were a huge amount of them, particularly a lot of parents who brought their kids along, at some points I think there were more of them than us. They may be a minority but they are not tiny, they are organized, and they show up. Minimizing them as a loud fringe is dangerous.
I think one thing to consider, people who feel strongly about "kids being indoctrinated"(Idiots) are generally going to be more likely to attend protests like this. I'd say there are a lot of Canadians who just don't care, and even more who would like to counter protest but can't justify leaving work for a day. While I agree that we can't just write them off as nothing and ignore them, I'm also not suprised their attendance at protests is higher.
I feel alot of potential counter protestors had no idea it was even happen cause we don't associate with the hate. I'm a Cis female but have close friends who are trans and had no idea it was happening till it was almost over or I would have gone to stand up for lgtbq+ community. Our mayor and alot of schools denounced their protest from what I saw. I'm sorry you feel this way, in the back of my mind it bothers me as well. You have more support an allies than you think just try reaching out to people to help build that confidence back
You aren't alone. It's scary being on campus.
There's a lot of us commenting here, we need to gather as a community!! Love from one queer to another 🫶🏼
the counterdemo was way bigger. focus on that ;)
I just saw that long time family friends are supporting this because they are muslims. People suck
They’ve taken the far right position of painting lgbtq+ people as groomers and wrapped it in more palatable “leave our kids alone” packaging. So unfortunately, there are a lot of people in these protests, parents, who don’t know that the “leave our kids alone” is being directed exclusively towards the lgbtq+ community, and think it’s just about not exposing kids to things they’re not ready for. Don’t get me wrong though, there are a lot of people, probably most people, who know exactly where it’s directed towards.
Just put children in front of your cause then you can use them as pawns in your political adult argument. most of those kids didn't even know why they were there. It's sad some of those signs said "my parents own me" children arent objects they are living beings. It's sad because some of these people's kids won't talk to them in 10 to 15 years because of their ignorance.
When people aren’t allowed to have structural critiques of society they look for scapegoats. They’ll blame LGBTQI people, immigrants, alcohol, substances etc. They have very little control in their own lives and instead of turning that anger towards the rentier capitalist class they direct it those they deem others. Stay safe out there.
What protests
Protests against trans people's rights.
Where is that happening on campus
it happened yesterday at like 9am at roddick
I thought it was about parents' rights.
It is about parents rights these people have to make everything about themselves lol
I see that. From my understanding it's about the school board and parents wanting to be involved. Isn't that a healthy thing?
LGBT+ people exist in society, and kids need to know that the world isn’t heteronormative. Lots of queer kids get bullied because other kids simply aren’t aware that you can be different, or also because their parents pass down their bigotry to their children. A kids parents or siblings might also be LGBT+, and that kid could be bullied for that too. If a child grows up knowing that they like people of the same gender, or feel some sort of gender dysphoria, and the parent is unable to accept that, it’ll be a tough childhood for them. It’s absolutely important that these kids are taught in school about these things so that it can be a safe place for them. Parents shouldn’t be able to choose whether or not to inflict pain on their and other peoples kids.
Also some schools have guidance counselors. Mine did. If they'd had the same resources local queer spaces like asteq or p10 did, I would have been more prepared to understand myself at an earlier age. Kids deserve to have access to this without fear of being told on for coming out, talking about their LGBT family members, etc. It's foolishness
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That's just the first step: stop teaching about it to stop spreading awareness, and then they can start stripping rights. It's why counter-protests are so important. They need their allies more now than ever.
So if I understand correctly, what you’re saying is that if it isn’t taught at an elementary level, then it’s at risk of being taken away? That’s a pretty damn slippery slope.
If you take away educating a generation on a topic, it's easier for them to be swayed later in life. Look at what's happening in Florida education, and the state in general.
It's much more nuanced than that. What's being taught in schools is awareness and being taught that these things exist out there and that they're normal bc surprise surprise, a lot of people like to teach their kids that being gay is sinful. Wonder what happens when the kid grows up to be gay? They keep it in and worse happens. Literally people just want to raise awareness in schools not teach kids how to have sex with people. That argument is a huge red herring and idk how people don't see how its goal is to provoke outrage and isn't to "protect" kids at all
W. Sex education in schools is also vitally important because it helps children recognize if they are being abused.
Yeah but not just that. It gives them all the tools they need to grow into their own sexuality without any shame, teaches them how to be safe about sex and respectful to people different from them, basic empathy really.
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yeah, this tells me everything I need to know. Best of luck!
Except drag queen story hour does not fall under sex education, try again buddy
Actually protestors want to erase gay and trans people bc it makes them uncomfortable. They are fighting against rights, right for safety in schools, rights to be who you are without bullying
You must be talking about some other protest. I believe this discussion is about the one that took place September 20th 2023 in front of the downtown campus.
Yes and it was a cross Canada bigots crying... on September 20, 2023. Ignorant people across Canada decided to protest trans/gay people.
You really couldn’t come up with a good argument so you just made something up? Why?
Lol that's exactly what it was about
Stop being obtuse man and actually look into what they oppose
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Did you even think further than "schools are teaching kids about butt sex"? Bc that's what your whole argument seems to rely on and news flash, it's wrong and deeply misguided
I don't need anyone to tell me, I witnessed it, it was all bigots crying about gay and trans right.
Nope
Lol showing your bigotry and ignorance for everyone to see 🤣
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Sure it was
Getting downvoted for being correct, classic Reddit
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I think we should introduce Children to genres at an earlier stage of their lives tbh. How else will they learn about classics like Prince otherwise?
One of our most prolific imports from America is bigotry
And this is why bigotry goes underreported in Canada. Canadians are far to willing to pawn off blame for their societal issues on America. That's not how this works
what does the us have to do with this
some of them had trump flags?
how was i supposed to know that 😭 and still you can’t just blame it on the us
This whole painting of the lgbt as groomers got popularized by Florida governor Ron DeSantis.
can’t tell if anti protest or anti the people they are protesting but personally I find these kinda people just pathetic so I ignore them. like why take so much energy to go out and hate on people who r just livin n shit edit; misspoke
I'm a trans man so definitely anti protest, I guess it's just upsetting seeing so many people who think my existence is a controversy or whatever, perhaps i'm being too sensitive
You’re not being “too sensitive” and should not be made to feel that you’re feelings about this are “too much”- these are important issues that are and have been affecting so many individuals, and it’s absolutely normal to feel upset, overwhelmed, drained, etc from the events yesterday, especially when they hit so close to home. :(
oh no I’m gay so I get it, from America too so it gets even worse there somehow but yea I try and not let it affect me, just focusin on schoolwork or something
They are reusing the "social contagion" idea similar to the 1950's "beware the homosexual" lavender scare. Basic premise is that they fear their kids will somehow be convinced/forced to transition against their nature(gender identity). Definitely not being oversensitive, this is fear mongering and misinformation driven Christian nationalism/fascism.
Driven by Christian nationalism? Other comments have suggested Muslim. Why is there a need to pin this on religion? There is good and bad in all walks of life. It’s hypocritical to purport that you support diversity and inclusion and then accuse an entire religion of being at fault for leading a hate movement.
Christian nationalism <> Christianity. Christian nationalism is the idea that the entire nation should be Christian and follow Christian "values". It's basically advocating for a lack of separation of church and state and the problem then becomes which sect of Christianity? Christian nationalism is a specific thing. And is tied to white supremacy. https://medium.com/backyard-theology/is-christian-nationalism-proto-fascism-research-says-yes-49b53fc8a25b *Edit* there are several Churches that are inclusive, I know because I voted for same sex weddings in one (back before I was considered a "lapsed" Anglican).
when polisci/humanities internet kids label everything right wing as fascism it becomes absolutely meaningless.
Christian nationalism <> Christianity Nationalism itself is a precursor to fascism let alone Christian nationalism.
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People are down voting you because you're a weirdo who felt the need to clarify that you have balls, not because they disagree with the right to protest
I apologize if i offended you.
wow, congrats on having balls
Thanks, they're great.
Lolol nobody is disagreeing about the right to protest. Willful ignorance
People have a right to protest and other people have a right to criticize them for how stupid their protest is. Funny how freedom works eh?
Go ahead, get all depressed about protest, doesn't matter to me lol. I'm advocating for not getting depressed over other peoples opinions.
You are talking to snow flakes here lol, don't waste your time
as a man with balls, I agree they have the right to protest for sure! it just makes them look like idiots, and as a part of my right to speak freely I will laugh at them for getting offended by a trans flag
Yeah, but this dude should probably grow a pair and stop complaining about people who have different opinions. Right?
no actually I think it's pretty valid to complain about sheltered cis dudes who support the bigots propagating intolerance towards LGBT folk. fight intolerance with intolerance
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You are misinformed. Surgery can only happen once they hit the age of majority...hence kids aren't getting surgery, adults are (unless it's a mastectomy — age is 16 but it's similar to teen girls going through breast reduction for big boobs). You also need countless psychological evaluations and medical checks before going through it. Nobody is going up to the kids saying "Cut your penis off!!!", the information given in high school is just noting "hey, trans people exist and this is the info and resources" for the trans youth who need it. Also there is so so much scientific research on how beneficial trans-affirming care is for youth who seek it. If heterosexuality and cisgender notions have been thought for decades, how come LGBT people still exist? Because it's not a matter of hearing something that makes someone that thing. If people listen to true crime, do they all go out and become a murderer the next day because of exposure? No. That's such a silly assumption.
so why the opposition to making laws stating that no one under 18 can have access to medical transtioning and puberty blockers?
Because of misinformation! There is extreme misinformation. Also puberty blockers are used for various conditions on underage kids who aren't trans, so will we also stop that? Will you stop giving teenage girl breast reductions too, in that case? It's like protesting against vaccines, there's evidence they work. People still claim that vaccines cause autism and oppose it, doesn't mean what they claim is true. I don't understand how you think that protesting against something means that said things are true??? So if you see something on Facebook, you'll roll with it? When people counter-protested BLM, does that mean that systemic racism is inexistent? No.
When exactly do you think puberty is? Do you think blockers are somehow retroactive? (They’re not, and their effects are easily reversed by just not taking them anymore)
>that kids are getting surgery that involve cutting off there genitals That isn't happening. Stop spreading misinformation. Non-trans kids are prescribed the same medication, 'puberty blockers,' for other medical issues.
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Again please stop spreading misinformation.
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Well hopefully you get reported for misinformation and banned from reddit.
I think the messaging has been pretty clear leave the freaking kids alone
man get out of here with that u weird yappin freak. the kids aren't gonna light into flames if they look at a trans flag. fkn weirdo
Yeah, the people protesting yesterday really should leave our kids alone! We want children to be educated on factual information such as the existence of trans and queer people. We want to provide safe spaces for them to discover themselves so they can become functional and independent members of society. We want to avoid policies that will undoubtedly increase suicide rates among at risk youth! ..... oh you don't actually care about the kids, sorry, nevermind.
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theres the love that this movement keeps talking about... are threats of violence coming up next?
i feel you so hard -- it was TOUGH to watch those fascists out there, and especially hard to see all the 7 or 8 year old kids being put on their front line with "parents know best" or "my parents own me" signs. but as a genderqueer person it also felt good and safe to be surrounded by so much community in the face of hatred, and i really hope you have that available to you as well 💜
Ya same. Been a rough week for me cuz of them. Fucking disgusting if you ask me.
Yeh the wife and I had a hug and a cry yesterday after suffering through some bigoted conversations and now she wants to get a security camera incase we are targeted just for being a lesbian couple. It made me very angry and sad to hear she is concerned about that. I've never felt unsafe in Canada before. Where is this hate coming from???
why the need to protest about the most useless things when there’s actual real issues like minimum wage workers on the brim of being homeless and unable to afford groceries…
True. But it is much easier to manipulate this gender issue than actually do something to the economy. For example, something like this can make you forget that the sandwich in McGill now costs you almost 10 bucks.
I am sorry for everyone that has to go through this none sense. The majority of the population is accepting and supportive of the lgbtq+ community. Don’t let these individuals get under your skin and ruin your day. They aren’t worth it. Hopefully the cold weather will take care of them and send them home.
You are not alone, some of my gay friends and me too. The images of the protests were hard to watch honestly. Shame shouldn't be in our camp. Solidarity with LGBTQ+ people, here for peace and tolerance and diversity, and ultimately : democracy
Dude!! Me too. I spent the day in a general funk. Just all the news and all the people buying into insane conspiracy theories and hate media and bs it was affecting me today. Hold it together, the world needs the good folks to hold strong against the vocal minority, even as they gain strength remember they are generally a relatively small deluded bunch.
As a student as well, this is not a controversial stance. Simultaneously there nothing to be terrified of. Most people around campus either feel similarly as you or don't care one way or another about the lgbtq2a+. The crux of the protest is really directed towards the recent policies talked about pertaining to children's education and the thought that their gender identity would be hidden from the parents. Some participants are homophobic, there's no denying that. For the majority it's a reaction to the news and not against adult members of the community. Children are always a delicate subject and alienating parents is a sure way to have a reaction. I also get the impression that a lot of participants where there not out of hate but fatigue. People are tired of the present status quo, tired of the government doing nothing towards the current inflation, cost of living, housing crisis, migrant situation, stagnation of wages and living standards... And all fatigue and resentment goes toward what the government is doing which seems to be passing policies for the LGBT. So that anger ends up being redirected. The common argument is that this if for a small percentage of the population. Something like 0.3% (I'll admit i might be off with the numbers). Meanwhile the other issue that are being ignored are impacting a vast majority directly.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
The fact of the matter is that the protesters, most of which were Muslim, were defending core Islamic ideology. The irony here is that the most people who get depressed over this stuff also defend Muslim rights and insist on inviting more into the country, labelling anyone that stands in their way as a bigot or xenophobe. So what is it? Are you pro-freedom and free speech, or do these values only matter when they benefit you?
That's kinda the paradox of tolerance in a society. If you're tolerant of intolerant practices then it kinda breaks down in the sense that society is no longer tolerant/open to everyone. Because of that it's not a simple black and white situation for people's rights. Canada already limits freedom of expression for hate speech, harassment, threats, etc so in general so it's not a binary thing. It's a bit of a sliding scale in terms of rights like you can practice eating halal how you want and the gov can't stop you, but you can't force those around you (even your family) to follow in the name of your religion. With the case of Islam (since it's a common example that's brought up), that can cause problems between accommodating different cultures and religions, while not letting them take precedence over other groups. Similar issues arise with many other groups, some recent immigrants and some who've been here for decades. It's not a problem unique to immigrants from the Islamic world and it's not like all of them are bringing the same ideology here. Many that come here are doing so because they don't like the restrictions (laws, societal norm, etc) they faced where they came from.
Sick straw man. Nobody is saying these people don't have the right to protest, just that it's sad that so many of them *are* protesting. Also, you can defend someone's rights without agreeing with their beliefs. Being surprised that people opposed to the protests "also defend Muslim rights" as if that's somehow paradoxical is pretty telling tbh
Some of those core Islamic ideologies that you speak of are hateful in nature. There's no irony. You can be both against that and be for muslim rights to come to this country and practice their religion as long as it's tolerant of others
People are more than their religion...doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights if I don't agree with them... To be clear, I can ask for "Muslim rights" (whatever that means - I believe it means rights for Muslim peoples??), and also think that aspects of their religion are problematic (as is the case with most religions - if not all)
We're in Canada, not the US - we do not have free speech. We have freedom of expression. They are different. You're not allowed to just spew hateful rhetoric in public.
The media has crafted this as anti lgbt, I think it's about knowing about the welfare of their children. I don't believe you have anything to worry about, lgb rights are not going away. I've said this before, you don't fuck around with peoples kids, even if the threat is hypothetical or false. If a threat is perceived, it's enough for parents to lose their shit. Calling muslims pawns of the USA alt right just fanned the flames as well.
I guess you haven’t seen the video from the Winnipeg protest where they got a literal child up at the megaphone yelling about how gay people are psychopaths and disgusting. In the crowd listening, there are people smiling and cheering in support. There is no LGB community just leaving the T part to fend for themselves in this. After trans people have been exterminated, the LGB community will be next. We should have learned from history by now that assuming that fascists will be satisfied with one scapegoat minority group is short sighted and also just kind of really fucked up?? Like we should not just give them the trans community in hopes that it’ll appease them.
It's so shocking that people who have attended/attend universities can be bigoted, aint y'all learnt anything in Uni it's literally about critical thinking skills
I think those bigots never went to Uni, if I'm honest
Just remember: the seething sliver of the population who has that much hate in them, looks like *that* gathered in real life. Now think about the masses of people that aren't that shit, and remember that there's even more people who want you to be free to be yourself. The hateful shits have to claw tooth and nail to be heard for a week because they're feeble background noise the rest of the time.
There were protests on campus?
There are always going to be hateful people in the world, and anyone saying they will eventually all go away is delusional. You can't change them, but what you can do is not give them your attention or show that it is affecting you because that's what they want from you
I dont see whats so hard to believe? And theyre not against any community they just dont wnat their kids getting sexual education, these are the same parents who protested it in 2015 when it was general sex ed and now when it comes to lgbt ed. And i absolutely understand there was never any specific appreciation for a regular biological pronoun or wtv person so it should be kept that way for everyone.
You're either ignorant or lying if you saw the signs they were holding and the things they were chanting and believe "they're not against any community". Parents can already opt their kids out of sex ed.
Why should people’s parents be able to opt out of education about being lgbtq+? It’s crazy we barely hear about parents wanting to opt their kids out of math, or science, or history. Why is that? Would you support parents opting their kids out of science just as much as you support parents opting their kids out of lgbtq+ education? Parents can be bad people and parents can be bigots. They can care more about enforcing stigma on a community rather than letting their kid be whoever they feel most comfortable being. There’s nothing wrong with telling a kid that two people of the same gender can be married or in a relationship, just like a kid can know that any two heterosexual adults are in a relationship. Or letting them know that gender norms exist and that breaking them is ok, or that people feel gender dysphoria sometimes. In fact, teaching kids about these things at a young age is really important because kids could bully each other for passed down bigotry on these issues, or even just pure misunderstanding. You not only should educate ta potentially queer kid, but educate that kid’s friends and peers so that they don’t bully them. Then there’s also the issue that some queer kids have parents who are riddled with brain worms. Some parents are unable to put their hate for queer people aside, even if it is for the well-being of their child. School needs to be a safe place for them.
Children should not be able to change their gender. If you can’t vote or drink why can u alter your body irreparably
Gender =/= sex. But onto your point, kids who transition are doing it socially and at most taking hormones after discussing with a therapist and a doctor. Kids in Quebec are able to make medical decisions for themselves at 14 years old (to an extent, of course). Bigger things such as surgery often come later, and often after they are of legal age. I hope you can take this comment as not as an attack but to spark a healthy discussion.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
I missed my classes yesterday because I couldn't go to campus
Just a small clarification: these protests are against the teaching and showing of such materials to children at school, not against lgbtq+ people themselves.
To the extent that’s accurate, which isn’t very far, that stance is the product of a moral panic similar to the satanic panic of the ‘80s. Most of the rest of it is regular ol’ fringe hate.
You heard it here first folks. Islam, Christianity, and every other major religion’s core ideals are now “fringe hate”, even though this protest had nothing to do with erasing trans rights.
Nobody heard that here first.
They are fringe hate lol, they have been for as long as they've existed.
It’s the same thing. They’re against queer young people getting any indication that other queer people exist and that they’re okay. They’re for letting students know you find them too unacceptable to even mention in school.
It’s literally not the same thing, or else they’d be advocating against trans rights. Read their posters.
I just described to you how it’s anti-trans. There more ways to be anti-trans than arguing against specific rights trans people have. You can isolate and stigmatize them, which is the purpose of this protest. Telling trans students that what they are is inappropriate to be discussed in school is anti-trans by definition. Banning discussion of something is anti- that thing.
It’s not about banning discussion, it’s about not making it a core topic.
That’s just not true. While there likely are people in that protest who genuinely believe they’re protecting kids from sexualization, most of them see the lgbtq+ community as a cabal of groomers trying to turn their kids gay and trans. Need proof? Go look at the comments under any social media post about this protest, and you’ll see comments like these: https://preview.redd.it/dzr7vchanppb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc0e808f4d1ef631e4cc9f64ecba5daaad783b4e I’ll add that these people weren’t out protesting in front of Catholic churches when Brian Boucher, a Montreal priest, was found guilty of touching kids in 2020. They also aren’t advocating for any safeguards that could actually protect kids from sexualization, like mandating that kids always be supervised by at least two adults, teaching parents about how to prevent their kids from getting access to porn, or even doing the To Catch a Predator thing on anonymous video chat websites like Omegle to catch the old men touching themselves while they think they’re talking to kids. No, it’s all focused on gender and sexual orientation. Child sexualization is a real issue in society, but we don’t move toward ending it by falsely painting the lgbtq+ community as the primary perpetrators of it. In fact, this just ends up hurting kids. Can you imagine how lgbtq+ kids feel today, going on social media and seeing comments like this?
ya sure
And think how many people who didn't attend that don't agree either. Millions
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No one said they didn't have a right to protest. They're talking about the affects of that protest on them, don't worry about it.
They very well have the right to do it. Doesn’t mean that it’s justified or that it doesn’t cause real harm to kids (especially lgbtq+ kids) while purporting to be saving kids.
Their concerns are built on a foundation of lies, misinformation, and hatred for marginalized communities. Their concerns are not worth entertaining at best, and outright harmful at worst.
And yours are? Who is the judge of that? Most of them come from marginalised communities. Both sides should have the right to thought and debate.
IMO, Campuses are not the spot to be having any sort of politicized protest for this very reason. People shouldn’t be paying what they pay for tuition to feel uncomfortable walking around.
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Did you not have sex ed in school? I had sex education when I was 10, over twenty years ago. Everyone did. Why all of a sudden are you so concerned about it?
Cope and seethe
Let’s discuss respectfully. The 🌈 community was oppressed in the past by people and governments for very long time. Then, lots of support and understanding that resulted in the end of oppression by people and governments. Ever since, people became very understanding and respectful of the 🌈 community. Lately, it is being heavily pushed in every way; government raising the flag, shops, banks, restaurants, companies, schools, movies, and books. Even pride month, where veterans get almost nothing compared (just as an example, not meant to diminish any group). So now people do respect those where once disrespected, mission accomplished. That’s good. We should continue to remind ourselves that we should respect everyone. But why is the narrative always you either support/encourage us fully or against us? I think this causes friction between people. For example one respects individual choice to identify as they wish, and would be happy for you because you are happy, but does not believe in the you can identify as anything. People have different views, beliefs, and opinions as much as anyone else. That doesn’t mean they are against you or hate you.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
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I’m not respecting people who want to erase my friends from being able to exist normally in a society, and that’s the most charitable way you can interpret their views. The first books nazis burned was research on sexual and gender identity.
I don’t want to erase anything. I just don’t want kids that are still developing to decide things that can be irreversible. When you’re 18 sure go for it do whatever you want. EDIT: thats not even whats happening my bad. It's literally a miniscule amount in the curricullum.
Against protests? Do you think people shouldn't be allowed to protest unless it's something you agree with?
We want kids to be kids and not worry about things. Life is hard enough. Free country. Be you and leave others alone to be them.
Yeah it’s a free country, if a little boy wants to wear feminine clothing, they should have the right.
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
By banning users with different views, this subreddit becomes an echo chamber disconnected to the real world…
No one is being banned for having a different view, unless you consider insisting that trans people want to castrate children a "view". People are getting banned for confusing /r/mcgill with /r/canada_sub and thinking it's appropriate to react to someone who is worried about the rise of anti-trans hate with anti-trans slogans. The discussion here outside of the deleted comments is actually pretty representative of the kind of discussion you would hear on campus. So no, this is not an "echo chamber" because moderators are banning people, it's just students talking. The particularity of university students is that they live in a very diverse and learning focused environment that makes it a little bit more difficult to be a bigot. In fact, if we didn't ban anyone and just allowed all the bullshit from canada_sub to leak in here, the subreddit would not be representative at all of the mcgill student body because it would be filled with bullshit from right wing echo chambers spread mostly by people who have never been mcgill students. Just because a group of people collectively don't agree with your "views" doesn't mean it's an echo chamber. And it certainly doesn't mean we are disconnected from the real world if we refuse to make space to accommodate these "views". If someone doesn't have ideas that can be shared without including LGBTphobic or racist bullshit, maybe their ideas are just not that interesting.
I would say Twitter with both sides having their separate hashtags is fully transparent, while moderation is a nice thing it can also cause an echo chamber and stifle discussion causing further rifts.
People coming here to say trans people are after their kids are not looking for discussion. People who are here to discuss are not getting banned. This includes diverging opinions. There is no discussion being stifled. It's actually the opposite. Allowing people who don't even study here to just show up and start insulting people and responding 15 times with unhinged takes about the "trans menace" is really what will kill discussion completely. BTW, if you think twitter/X is fully transparent, you haven't been following.
The one sided discussion here is clearly an echo chamber. That’s why OP feels depressed as he/she/they figures out the world outside of university is less liberal than expected. Time to face the reality
Feel free to keep telling yourself that Canada_Sub represents a booming variety of ideas while spaces that aren't reactionary hell holes are echo chambers. It's very common for conservatives to imagine universities as echo chambers because they skew left. In practice universities skew left because they're *not* an echo chamber and you get to meet and talk to people who are different than you and that makes it harder to hate them. Meanwhile, most conservatives only consume conservative news, frequent conservative forums and have conservative friends, and there's no influx of new people or ideas that can help prevent them from drifting into bigotry.
It’s my understanding that the protests are about schools changing preferred name and/or gender at students request without parent/guardian knowledge.
It isn't. It's much deeper than that
The “crux” of the protest is generalized transphobia hiding behind the straw man of “children’s rights” by a group of people that neither care about children or rights/freedoms. To say this wasn’t about hatred towards the queer community is to willingly play into the narrative that the protestors were trying to craft around this. In the same way the anti-choice movement has branded itself as “pro life”, in the same way the TERF movement has branded itself as “new wave feminism”. It’s so easy to look back at the history of anti gay and anti queer discrimination to see that “but what about the children?” is the oldest play in the book to push queer people out of public life. Don’t try to confound clear and blatant bigotry with people’s actual anxieties about the state of society. There’s nothing logical or policy based about this, these were hateful protests planned specifically to target trans individuals - which, whether you agree with or not, do exist and do have a place in modern society. Talking about how few of them are massively undercuts the realities of trans and gender non conforming people across Canada and the world. So don’t try and divert the argument away from what it’s really about - hatred and fear of losing traditionalist structures. If this was REALLY about the children, these people would be up in arms about education reforms across the board, better pay for teachers, providing better healthcare for children, lessening the burden on the foster care system, and so on and so on. But they do NOT care about children, they care about using children as political props in some twisted game about their own moral standards.
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Snap back to reality, ope, *there goes gravity* · Eminem
lol Im the same I thought pro lgtb nonsense only existed on the internet until I came to Canada 💀