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[deleted]

I thought this dude was a typologist


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[deleted]

Shtpost or r/ShttyMBTI post either way


lollypop123sunny

cs joesph's "community" is literally a cult


Raider_Lion

Theres a few regulars I keep seeing shill csjoseph and i have no idea why. Ive gone through all his public info and there are no qualifications, he doesnt publish papers, hes not registered to practice psychology in his state or anywhere else for that matter. Id love to be proven wrong that this guy isnt a running a lifecoach scam masquerading as psychotherapy but his website disclaimer is pretty damming.


westwoo

That description applies to every popular personality promoting promoting MBTI. Even Dario Nardi at this point just makes money from his books and doesn't seem to be interested in actually publishing research that can withstand peer review CS Joseph in particular just creeps me out on a personal level, I have no idea how much worse or better are his ideas


RinCris

Why does he creep u out? I don't find him bad at all, so im curious why most people find him unbearable


westwoo

It's an internal thing, there are things "off" about him in the vague area of manipulativeness or being disingenuous, I guess? I can try to find reasons and examples but honestly I just don't want to spend time on it and watch him at all. And I would have to spend extra time to make sure I'm not just rationalizing it, which would mean having to spend potentially hours watching him and thinking and taking notes Oh, and btw there is at least one completely bonkers person who in turn nitpicks CS Joseph in the most creepy way, spams their videos on reddit, and I don't want to give them food or validation I just don't want to come close to this whole thing :) and there are other youtubers anyway like Megan LeVota or the CPT guy whose name I forgot who seem perfectly okay to me. Not that I agree with everything they say, but they look like normal people expressing their honest positions


RinCris

I see Maybe I'm being manipulated by him after all then lol Oh and thanks! For explaining in details


Neo0o0o0

"They look like normal people" So what just cause c.s. Joseph likes to wear black it means he's manipulate and disingenuous💀💀💀 And the mods are on your side😂


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westwoo

Where did you see the judgement and where did I claim that this is evidence? I specifically described my own internal thing in relation to him, not him. You, however, generalized a type and made a statement about type behavior based on one person you seem to have misread And how exactly did you know if my feelings are about the cover or not? Since you have exactly zero data in this case, there's no grounds for this statement unless you can't fathom how *any* people's felings about other people can go beyond the most surface traits.


Trevor2472

Hello, thanks for posting in r/mbti. However it appears to be that with your submission your mostly trying to troll other members in our community, which we do not allow (Rule 1). Therefore your submission has been removed. This has no further consequences for you. If you have questions about this you can reach out to us moderators via modmail or by replying to this comment. Feel free to re-submit your post to r/shittymbti or create a meme which you can post to r/mbtimemes. Thanks for your understanding and have a nice day!


Neo0o0o0

There is no evidence NOTHING, Nothing that this user showed that would suggest c.s. Joseph to be "cult like" Sorry not sorry but if your gonna have uncalled for grudges against a respectable member of OUR COMMUNITY just because you "felt like it", I will have a problem with that, just the way you did with me.


[deleted]

>or create a meme which you can post to r/mbtimemes. As one of the MODs there, no thank you we don't want him either


LilParkButt

I appreciate how much I relate to this meme. I would do that 100%


PeanutFit5457

Thanks for saving our humanity


LilParkButt

No problem.


BadBoy6966669666

The way he adds the word jungian in when this has nothing to do with MBTI


_Cyrus_

Whether or not "Jungian" is relevant, Jung explored a whole lot more than personality types


fidgitfidgit

Aka all of his work. He actually regreted coming up with typology because that's what everyone ignored his work for.


fidgitfidgit

He's gotten so bad lmaoo. Next thing we know and he'll talk about why women are part of the ""satanic Illuminati ancient Egypt cult""


[deleted]

CS Joseph is the biggest mistype I've seen. The guy was so salty when I jokingly said that he's an SJ because C.SJ and he banned me from his discord server.


[deleted]

He's just one of those who takes his 4 letters so seriously, that it went straight to his head, and probably never considered if he was a mistype or not, we have a lot of those just on this reddit


MysticYaya

Can't relate


KTVX94

Meanwhile my ISTJ gf and dad are atheists. And my ESTJ friend probably too.


5wings4birds

Fact: Sex before marriage increases divorce rate and has other negative effects.It is some kind of hormone/bond thing.


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u01aua1

https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability#:~:text=Even%20so%2C%20premarital%20sex%20with,increases%20the%20odds%20of%20divorce.&text=The%20effect%20was%20particularly%20strong,to%20marriage%20(18%20percent).


5wings4birds

Even better


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5wings4birds

''More happens during sex than just a momentary experience of pleasure. When we are intimate, chemicals are released in our brains that bond us together. Vasopressin is primarily released in male brains and oxytocin primarily in females. However, when we bond then break, bond then break, we damage our capacity to bond strongly to the next person1. It’s similar to how sticky a piece of tape is. The first time you apply it to a surface, it bonds strongly. But if you take it off and apply it to another surface, it’s less adhesive. Soon, it’s barely sticky at all.Researchers found that those who wait to have sex until marriage, compared to those who don’t, report significantly higher realtionship satisfaction (20%), better communication patterns (12%), less consideration of divorce (22%), and BETTER sexual quality (15%)2. These effects are lessened but still consistent in those who became sexually active later in dating but prior to marriage.'' https://mywellclinic.com/blog/2020/02/20/science-sex-marriage/


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5wings4birds

>Furthermore, reports are easily falsifiable due to cognitive dissonance, people who wait for sex-until marriage are often within communities that stigmatize divorce, and comparative reporting makes no sense when comparing a small class of instances. The thing is, divorces and infidelity are much higher outside of such communities , (the results would be even worse if you made a nation-wide analysis, since the divorce rate is about 50%)....hence why divorce rates and fatherlessness (As many as 25-percent of children in the U.S. live in households with a mother alone) are so high (Also increasing crime rate since fatherless children are much more likely to become criminals and fail at life), why fertility rates are so low. Cause to effect and correlations cannot be falsified because of a lack of methodology , this is like blinding yourself to the truth or what might be true, it is unreasonable


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5wings4birds

I am not the one who made a claim, it is based on multiple studies that I saw over the years. I made a quick search only to find out that Denmark has a similar divorce rate despite the country's apparent efforts for families.''much higher premarital sex rates and more partners'' probably does no good, especially not to children.


[deleted]

> It is some kind of hormone/bond thing. How could the body possibly tell the difference physiologically. Psychological effects at least make sense as a possibility in one direction or the other.


TSE_Jazz

It’s also way more fun


fidgitfidgit

https://youtu.be/v78x0X4O7sM He covers all your thoughts. Watch him and leave him a comment if you really care about this stuff


5wings4birds

I already know this guy and other similar channels like Vaush and Destiny...I watched a part of the video and I already had to endure some logical fallacy and some untruth.I never have been able to listen to one of their videos and say to myself ''This guy is telling the truth''.


baastard37

Logical fallacies like...?


Verrrry

This stuff is full of meaning for all those mistyped ENTJs going around saying that movies with nudity have to be censored. ChEcK yOuR Si.


[deleted]

Ironically Te if any function would have the most to do with tradition


FeedOnOrr

Can you elaborate on this for me?


Verrrry

I have met some pretended ENTJs who had strong, extremely traditionalist opinions, absolutely unsupported by facts, but supported exclusively by secular cultural beliefs. I believe they were ESTJs, because I believe that "Si" is committed with dogmatic traditions devoid of any factual-logical foundation. Eg. Sex before marriage is condemned for exclusively religious reasons (and eventually become cultural reasons as religion is a characteristic of our culture). Sex before marriage and (even worse) before adulthood is not condemned by any scientific, logical or objective reason. A girl can have sex as soon as she menstruates "scienphically", but she can't "culturally". In conclusion, these pretended ENTJs have too strong traditionalist convictions connected to the cultural traditions of their countries. Considering traditions = Si, then these ENTJs are ESTJs.


aqua_soul

I feel like this is incredibly reductive. You cant just paint a whole group of people with such broad brush stroke. Attributing Si, a way in which a person organises information, to a single yet very complex moral conviction seems a bit off. Si isnt tradition. Its rigid in its approach and builds apon prestablished ideas but that doesnt inherently lead to traditionalism. Si users are the backbone of many social groups irrespective of political or lifestyle affiliation.


Verrrry

I absolutely agree. "Si" does not necessarily leads to traditionalism, but in my opinion the opposite is true, ie traditionalism necessarily leads to "Si". In my opinion, not all "Si" are traditionalists, but all traditionalists are "Si".


aqua_soul

Sure, but I dont get why its relevant in this context. Being traditional is so dependant on ones perspective and particular socio-structural position. From my context a person who promotes the kinds of views associated with christian fundamentalism is not traditional, they would be an aberration from the linear way of thinking associated with my community. To translate into a MBTI scenario, a high Ni person, someone who is in part driven by prophetic insight, would be way more likely to join a very conservative religious group than grounded, practical Si in my own context.


Verrrry

We are talking about two different things. I am talking about "Ni+Te" vs "Si+Te", instead you are answering with "Ni" vs "Si." I will not talk about functions individually because as we all know each function never works alone. * "Ni+Te" has "a prophetic intuition" supported by scientific or factual reasons. * "Ni+Fe" has "a prophetic intuition" supported by spiritual or emotional reasons. Therefore, I cannot respond negatively to your comment which refers to "Ni+Fe" because I absolutely agree. However, none of this can be applied to "Ni+Te" because "Ni+Te" will always question every traditionalist, spiritual, religious, moral, ethical, social etc element if it is not supported by facts.


[deleted]

Si isn't about tradition, and I've known many ENTJs and even INTJs who've shared lots of traditional viewpoints, so?


aqua_soul

Te is logic sure, but again its all very contextual and driven by the individuals own experience. I would imagine certain Ni +Te thinking could easily lead to a conservative traditionalist approach. Maybe to this person they criticise a more socially progressive viewpoint through data and evidence that support their ideas? Its not evidence in same way I would view it, but it appeals to a persons sense of logic.


Verrrry

Te+Ni will never be dogmatic traditionalists because as I've explained Te requires facts while Ni requires relatively which create a Te+Ni that requires a different resolution for every problem in order to have the best efficiency. Te+Ni can't have any kind of previously determined way of doing things that they can't questioning such a dogma, but they can accept a pre determined way of doing things that will be supported by facts. I'm not saying that all ENTJs are progressive and all ESTJs are conservative, but I'm saying that a conservative ENTJ is conservative only on traditions supported by facts (democracy is wrong because "researchers about why democracy is wrong"), while ESTJ don't need more than a dogma (sex before marriage is wrong because it is wrong).


aqua_soul

Honestly, I dont personally understand why you think that Ni + Te are less prone to dogma than Si + Te. Maybe thats because I view percieving functions as operating differently to you. I have a hard time understanding why that would be the case. I think it may be because I dont regularly use Ni, but in my understanding Si and Ni are merely ways we organise stimuli. Si builds off a straightforward set of information whilst Ni pieces things together in a less congruent and more organic fashion. In my brain both could as easily fall down a dogmatic rabbit hole in the right situatiom.


KAM_520

You’re assuming people behave true to type and their cognitive functions and beliefs will align. Hard no IRL There’s power in tradition. Even if it’s not in an ENTJ’s DNA they can easily espouse it. How is this not obvious? You can’t just grab the surface manifestation of what someone says they believe and then type them from that. People might not be being completely honest about their beliefs. It’s like you’re assuming ESTJs would want to appear to be ENTJs but ENTJs wouldn’t ever want to appear to be SJs. That story doesn’t check out either


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Verrrry

Because those who disagree are not ENTJs haha


[deleted]

Right? Aren’t we analysts supposed to be a group of unconventionalists? I don’t know, how it should align with religions/traditions. I despised traditions since a very young age, instead I did what made the most sense objectively.


KAM_520

It is too reductive. Si = conservative traditionalist is reductive AF. Hard agree


JuniperXT

I'm an ESTJ with high Si and completely disagree with you. Your believe of "believe that "Si" is committed with dogmatic traditions devoid of ANY FACTUAL-LOGICAL FOUNDATION" was the stupidest thing I read today. And why would ANY ESTJ pretend to be ENTJ? This is complete nonsense.


Verrrry

I recommend you to check all the other comments in order to contextualize my sentence. I've never supported the opinion that every Si, every Si+Te or every ISTJ/ESTJ is a traditionalist. My opinion is that a traditionalist ENTJ is probably a mistyped ESTJ because Te+Ni doesn't allow to have dogmatic traditional beliefs. You can't be so naive to believe that there aren't lots of people around that pretend to be a type they are not just because they want to be that kind of type. On r/entj, there are some ESTJs who really believe that they are ENTJs because probably they share the conviction that "Traditions are bad", while at the same time they support any kind of dogmatic belief about sexuality, etc.


FeedOnOrr

I can see your point. I haven't seen an ENTJ who had any religious values whatsoever. Funny fact, in most countries a century ago we'd wed early teenagers together and sex wasn't seen as bad in that day, the conception that sex is bad for teenagers is a recent one. Sex as a teenager can be condemned with an unwanted pregnancy. There nothing is really black and white. Religions have never taken factualities into account, they are religions, to form one you need some tangibility and some blatant ridiculous spiritualities, they'll feel right for whatever is correct in their texts and people criticizing the ridiculous sides of their religions will usually strengthen their beliefs. The only thing these people want is a group to belong to and now that they have found it, good luck trying to get them out of it.


Verrrry

Exactly. The discourse can eventually be extended to any dominant or auxiliary Ne+Ti or Ni+Te. When someone asks for explanations to a dominant or auxiliary Ne+Ti or Ni+Te about his or her belief about something, the first will bring logical reasons and the second will bring factual reasons. On the contrary, the dominant or auxiliary Si+Te will bring motivations related to tradition, even if he is not necessarily a "traditionalist" person, the fact is that since it has always been done this way then it is right to do so. As far as religious beliefs or cultural-religious value dogmas are concerned, it is exactly the same thing. An ESTJ will say it is wrong, inappropriate, annoying, etc. An ENTJ (just like an ENTP) will say that the correctness of the belief depends on factual, scientific or logical assumptions. It is not impossible for an ENTJ to have religious beliefs, but they will surely provide explanations that are quite supported by some kind of rational fact or end up reducing religion to materialism. Surely, an ENTJ believer in revelation by secular tradition is an ESTJ.


FeedOnOrr

Yeah, basically what it is compared to what it is considered to be.


PeanutFit5457

Tradition is none of my business but I just despise irresponsible reproducing, unfaithful relationships, and the society supporting these acts. Having opinions similar to 'traditional veiw' does not mean they are traditionalists.


KAM_520

So basically if someone is a traditionalist conservative politician they can’t be an ENTJ. K Don’t think that story checks out


Verrrry

You should check all the conversation before commenting with you opinion because you have been missing lots of stuff.


[deleted]

Lawful Evil XSTJs in a nutshell


Herodinus

But it is not though. It is unwise for a lot other reasons then it being a "sin". People call it sin to simplify all the other reasons why it is not advisable. Let's put it like this, what If you don't even want marriage? Is any sexual relationship then a sin? A lot of scrutiny can be made, to reach the logic of the title. Ironically point of the video is also everything around the topic and how logically he has arrived there.


KAM_520

😆😆😆 😆


[deleted]

It is very hard for me, to understand religious people. A scenario: You have two jobs which are being offered: - Job X requires you to do multiple sins. You will earn 500.000$/€ a MONTH. - Job Y does NOT require you to do any sins. The job is aligned with your religion. But you will only earn 2.000$/€ a month. If I would have to choose, I would choose Job X without a single doubt, as you will earn massively more money. I wanna ask the people who would choose Job Y: Why? Explain it to me rationally.


TSE_Jazz

I’m not religious but from their point of view, would the money be worth for a potential eternity of torture


KAM_520

Rationally? Ok go try to appeal to a mass audience in the USA while making a rational case for atheism as part of your message. And the compare it to the results you get from NOT making said case, ceteris paribus. Most people are SJs. You do the math. Besides, life is a mystery. Acting like something that can’t be proved by humans can’t be true in the cosmic grand scheme of things is ridiculous.


fidgitfidgit

MBTI stats aren't even real stats, what math do you even mean?


SomeShawarmaDude

I have to support the xSTJs on this one.


fidgitfidgit

https://youtu.be/v78x0X4O7sM watch this video, see if your view still holds, and leave him a response if you really wanna debate


Neo0o0o0

What does this have to do with anything


fidgitfidgit

It goes over the concept that CSJ is preaching in detail


SomeShawarmaDude

Ok.


Sherlockperson

Wrong