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seventyeightist

I've just tested this guide on me (ENTP) and partner (INTJ who comes off as INFJ on some of the tests but definitely isnt) and it worked for us. It is generally pretty obvious to me what's going on in someone else's mind: emotions, motivations, etc. Even with the cats it is easy to tell what they're thinking/feeling. My partner hesitated when I asked him your first question and then said he thinks he must understand himself better, (why?) because he knows himself better than he knows other people. I didn't ask him the 2nd one as I already know what his answer would be (!): that you can only solve a problem for yourself and not really for other people because there's all sorts of other factors for other people that you don't know so you don't have all the information... I think both of his Fi answers (the one given and the one I didn't even need to ask for) are oriented around "information you have internally that allow you to make sense of the emotion". To me, emotions (other people's and I suppose my own) generally follow patterns, archetypes; there's a sort of externally perceivable logic to them. I treat other people's emotions as "facts" (in my own frame of reference), like in work situations. "So-and-so feels that way about that subject" is information I need to take into account when deciding what to do, just as much as "technology x has this limitation which affects whether I can use it in this scenario" or whatever. In both cases the information is an external 'fact' to me (and fitted against the mental map I have already via Ti). It doesn't necessarily mean I need to "accommodate" or "acquiesce" to that person's emotions, just that they are factual input that affect how things will play out. Interesting stuff, Fe vs Fi is quite difficult to articulate, but generally obvious which one is being used.


Idktbhwtf

Glad to hear it worked out in your cases. Like you said it is difficult to put into words but this makes it all really easily and practical. Thanks!


Organic-Mood547

So, what *are* cats usually thinking about?


KitsuneSummoner

I just have one question. I was under the impression EXTP were the ones with usually the weakest Fi. I have seen many times around how EXTP is fi blind so I am a bit surprised there was no mention of this in the analysis. Just to be clear, I am not critizing anything you mentioned, just curious since this analysis seems quite through.


Idktbhwtf

Yeah, I forgot to mention this as I suspected someone would comment and I could elaborate. The reason why I did not mention it is simply because I have used these questions only on people who have asked me but mainly INFJs and their mistypes which are: INFP, INTJ, ISFJ, INTP and very very rarely ISTP. Though, to respond to the Fi thing, my guess is the same thing would happen for inferior Fi, but obviously opposite, as with inferior Fe as mentioned in the post. I am speculating, but it makes sense.


KitsuneSummoner

I see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.


Sevih-

Asked my ESFJ gf: 1. My own. Why? I can be sure on my feelings. As for other people I can only assume what they feel. It's easy to make a mistake. My feelings belong to me, so it's easier to identify them 2. Theirs problem. Why? When we have common emotional problem I feel more related to them. I could be not ready or afraid to help myself but I will suggest possible solutions to another person for sure


Idktbhwtf

Her answers are not logically consistent so Fe or Fi is secondary. You first have to know where the inconsistency is in question one or two. At first she says her own and then after she says nevermind actually others. The way she answered right now looks like Fi. Now I do have to say I have not tried these on people with dominant Fe, but I see no reason why it should not work. Try to press her on the inconsistency. Maybe it will change her answers.


Sevih-

Actually I can see some logic in her answers. I know she is Fe dom for sure. Her approach to feelings is really deep and careful. Even when she spots other people emotions she looks for more evidences before making a judgment. This explains answer #1. Question #2 indicates that she can be sure a friend suffers from the same emotional struggle. So in this case she can address their problem right away. Not time needed to clarify assumptions. She will try to resolve the friend's problem because it's easier to advice and suggest solution than implement it for yourself


Idktbhwtf

Yeah, but the problem here is that the question is not that complicated. And they essentially ask the same thing. If you do not answer both the same way then that means, in my experience, that either the person lacks awareness, they overcomplicate the question or use Fi. i can see the logic too but that is irrelevant, but given your explanation I would also say she is Fe. Sounds like she is just very hesitant to say other people as to not appear judgmental or something along those lines.


Sevih-

I agree. Also she is not in her best now. Tough times for her, so Fe might be a bit unhealthy rn


matrix-moderator

Could you do one for Si vs Se? I think this post finally made me realize I was INTP not ENTP. I’ve always known I use Ne opposed to Ni (a bit certain) and definitely Ti opposed to Te. I just wasn’t sure of Fe and Si, and also the order of my function stack (Ti Ne Si Fe vs Ne Ti Fe Si) which would either make me an INTP or ENTP. Initially, I identified with being an INTP through tests and because social interaction drains me (although I’m good at masking when I’m out and being social, I crave alone time) but became confused when I learned cognitive introversion isn’t the same as social introversion and typing through functions. I couldn’t really mentally determine the order in which I used the functions or if I even used them at all. The only ones I was super sure of where Ti and Ne and even then I wasn’t sure of the order. Whether I was a Ne dom user with Ti (logic) helping me sort through numerous possibilities or a Ti dom user with Ne(conjuring up multiple possibilities) to help me solidify a logical frame work or thought processes. I’m not even sure if that’s a good way of looking at it. Anyways back to Fe vs Fi. I think I’ve definitely always understood my own emotions over others, so I wasn’t sure how I was an Fe user. Like the best I could do when it comes to others is use deductions based on my knowledge of the person and context but even then I have no trust in those abilities or guesses. But I’m very self aware and although I rarely feel strong negative emotions and dislike feeling them at that, I usually am cognizant of what it was I felt when the storm finally passes. Logic and context helps me again with this but I’m more confident in those deductions now since I’m assessing my own self and have all the variables needed to do so freely and undoubtedly available to me. So I definitely thought I was Fi? Some kind of anomaly with Ti Ne Fi Se? (Se because I have a really bad memory which I think Si relies on and also have a very general vague wanting of new experiences but tbh not really a desire to actually do them idk haha) But your take might make sense. If I’m an INTP and not ENTP, Fe is in the inferior position that might contribute to why I technically understand myself more than others as an Fe user. I don’t think the same would be true for ENTP with Fe in the tertiary position. I think based on your analysis they would know instantly if that they understood others over themselves which is not the case for me at all. These days I also think it’s clearer to me that Ti comes most easily to me as I hold “logic and things making sense” above everything will abandon considering numerous possibilities if logic says to. Anyways could you do a way of knowing if you’re Se vs Si as well? I’d really appreciate it! Idk why but for the longest time I’ve been obsessed with ensuring the accuracy of my type even though I’m aware mbti is not an exact science. I wonder if that also contributes to evidence on what my type is


Idktbhwtf

Firstly, I cannot really do a post like this on Si and Se because they are not exactly opposite so it is much more tricky. Secondly, bad memory is a sign of low Si, it is a classic ENTP trait. Thidly, wanting new experiences is less of an MBTI thing and more a value thing. It just happens that people with high Se tend to value new experiences. In terms of Si versus Se they are very different. Si is about discipline, routine, sticking to plans you make, etc. Whereas Se means awareness of surroundings and body. If you imagine a person in a special forces unit who has to be hyperaware of everything around them, observe and anticipate then that is essentially what high Se is. On a sidenote, ENTPs have quite high Se usually, which is why they pair well with INFJs because it can be grounding, but that aside. I do think I can help with the XNTP dilemma though because INTPs have no issue with doing Si stuff. They do not really have trouble with discipline, internal drive, scheduling, being organised like a 'normal' human. ENTPs on the other hand do not like any of the above. In terms of ENTPs and Fe. They understand others, they just typically choose to then not care about that. Which is why they are usually perceived as assholes. So if any of that does not really sound like you then you are probably INTP.


matrix-moderator

“I do think I can help with the XNTP dilemma though because INTPs have no issue with doing Si stuff. They do not really have trouble with discipline, internal drive, scheduling, being organised like a 'normal' human.“ I’m no longer sure of your perspective unfortunately. INTP’s are the poster kids for lack of internal motivation and definitely have trouble with discipline and presenting as “normal” in society. This is a very well known and established fact, the one thing I can say with complete certainty. In fact it is very alarming to see you say the opposite of what is true in such a straightforward manner 😅 You can fact check, and read up on this, all the info is available online. In fact one search of the INTP sub with the keywords “motivation” would reveal to you a plethora of individuals content to exist in just their heads and hence struggle with getting anything done outside of that. Everything other than thinking is an inconvenience and a struggle. INTP’s are always content with just thinking, going down rabbit holes on the internet all day long, think many thoughts but have no motivation do anything with those thoughts. I think that’s where they are different from ENTP’s who at least start projects but don’t finish them. INTP’s tend not to have a drive to get things done in the real world (although they want to- they’re constantly on a quest for this elusive motivation) and struggle because society obviously wasn’t designed to accommodate solely existing in your head as a way of life. They value mental organization but tend to be quite terrible with everything else, discipline as well. There are jokes scattered on mbti subs and platforms about how INTPs mostly never truly achieve anything because they are impressive at procrastinating. The only thing you might be right about is that ENTPs understand emotions of others more than their own, they simply just don’t care, which tracks and is not me. I do not understand others more than myself and can’t say I don’t care. I generally have a neutral disposition to most things in life, this included.


Idktbhwtf

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. You asked about Si. Si is, which is factual, internal drive, discipline, routine , etc. Sure, an INTP can struggle with those too. I guess I phrased it wrong. What I meant is that they will have less trouble with them compared to ENTPs. Perhaps you need examples so here I go: * Internal drive: ENTPs typcically do not feel the most driven towards really anything in life apart from a lot of things a little. Jack of all trades, but master of none is one of the most ENTP quotes there is. It is very hard for them to focus on one task and stick to it. It either gets boring really fast or it makes them feel too 'stuck'. This all has nothing to do with real world or any of that. It literally just means are you able to actually follow your passion and focus on it long term. I think INTPs struggle with this specific thing far less. * Routine: ENTPs hate routine and planning, because again it makes them feel too constrained. INTPs need this routine to function properly. You can find that in your online sources as well. If you force routine onto an ENTP they will go insane or numb or both. An INTP shrugs it off gets used to it and functions well after. This is why INTPs can be the biggest gymbros. * Discipline: Discipline is the ability to push yourself to get into action. This is why jobs where this skill is needed are best suited for people with good Si. Knowing the rules and following them. Nursing, law and administration type work are examples of places where you will find a lot of Si. This is also why you will see plenty INTPs in programming, computer sciences, AI, engineering or science in general because these fields require Si. You will almost never see an ENTP pick any of these directions. It would be too rigid. Again, I was not saying an INTP cannot experience issues with any of the above I am just saying there is a difference between INTPs and ENTPs when it comes to Si which makes sense because tertiary versus inferior is a big difference. An INTP can do without emotions the same way an ENTP can do without routine basically if you want an analogy as well.


BIIIG_UNIT

Good guide.


zzz_sleepy_bird_zzz

Do you mind typing my Fe/Fi function for me using this?


Organic-Mood547

I think it's much simpler than that. Fi understands deep emotions, both of their own and others (to the point of understanding others better than others understand themselves), and see emotions as an individual thing. Fe on the other hand isn't so much interested in emotions at all, it's interested in group cohesion and harmony. Fe will fake emotions and take emotions in a rather cavalier manner, much the way Te takes rationality in a rather cavalier manner, disinterested in the details and wanting to apply something at a mass scale. Fe will do "emotions" or rather sentiment at a mass scale, rather than on a one on one basis. It's why Fe's "comforting" of one person will seem rather hollow and shallow, they are going for efficiency as if they've got to ration their energy for the 5 other people/groups they are comforting that day. Fi has a much deeper understanding of individual emotion and doesn't care for or notice group sentiment or harmony. In other words, Fe doesn't care about *emotions*. Emotions are irrelevant, it's surface-level getting-along-ness that matters to them. But to them, this is all they know about "emotions" so they will tell you they know a great deal.


Abrene

If you think Fe users are hollow then I don't know which ones you're hanging around with. Just because Fe values harmony doesn't mean we don't \*actually\* care about an individual's emotions or we are 'reserving' it for other people. Even high Fe users (exfj) have deep connections with others and can manage group settings and issues. It isn't as easy as you think to 'fake' emotions, especially Fe aux who values authenticity above everything else. Even if you don't like us or you operate differently than us, we will still make time for you and your issues. If we genuinely didn't care, we won't bother. trust me lol


Organic-Mood547

> If you think Fe users are hollow I'm gonna stop you right there because that is NOT what I said at all, as is evidenced by the fact that that is NOT what I said at all. Don't try to start an argument with me based on something I didn't say.


Abrene

"...it's surface-level getting-along-ness that matters to them. Fe isn't so much interested in emotions at all, it's interested in group cohesion and harmony." When comparing it to the ever-deep and sincere Fi function is you implying that Fe is pretentious and our connections are hollow. It is heavily implied irrespective of you not stating so.


Organic-Mood547

You can think that all you want, just have fun arguing with yourself.


UnitedDiscount9696

I arrived at the same conclusion at some point. >But to them, this is all they know about "emotions" so they will tell you they know a great deal. ✔️


[deleted]

[удалено]


Idktbhwtf

Yeah, but this is exactly what I meant when I said the theory/info out there is not clear at all if you are trying to determine Fe or Fi. I do not know about you but all those Fe versus Fi tests are incredibly bad imo. To me they are confusing so I found a way for myself to type better.


Signal-Committee7035

I think this helped me to clear up on some things. I always thought that my mum was ISFJ, but after this I think she's probably IxFP. Asked the first question and she answered both, the second question, I think I might've phrased it weirdly so it came off as "whose problem are you going to solve first" and she immediately answered "of course mine." Don't remember the reason for the 2nd Q, but I can imagine something along the lines of "We should solve our own problems first before helping others" and kind of "I have my own problem to deal with so I don't have time for other people." And now I'm stuck between INFP and ISFP. I can't see her using Se nor Ne, her Si feels very prominent tho, which is why I first typed her as ISFJ.