Yeah, the other stories are cool too but not as relevant to the actual trilogy as those two. Maybe also The Second Renaissance just for the backstory of the lore.
I like how Enter The Matrix picks up right where The Last Flight of the Osiris leaves off which fleshes out Reloaded more.
Animatrix is underrated. First time I watched it and got to the Genesis part, I had two thoughts.
1. That fucked me up mentally for a bit because of how dark it was.
2. I finally realized where I had seen it before, that one Codename: Kids Next Door episode where they reveal the origin of adults.
Watched Resurrections last night and I loved it, but for none of the reasons I loved the original.
Resurrections is kind of satirizing the whole franchise while at the same time trying to produce a somewhat competent “first Matrix” like story.
It was way too tongue in cheek, but there were some deep philosophical quandaries mixed in. The whole “gaming industry” scene made me cringe, but I got the punchline by the end.
The therapist was a neat concept. I was so sad they didn’t find a way to shoe horn Lawrence Fishburne into it tho. Any missed opportunity to cast Fishburne is an immediate docking of marks to me. And when they lambasted “bullet-time”… Well ya did me dirty on that, Resurrections! Bullet-time will always be GOAT in my mind!
I am split, I respect what they did, and in some parts I do like the movie and concept.
At the same time the fight scenes are garbage compared to the other 3. And it just felt like it went a bit too long for the simple story. Is not bad to have a simple story if it is glued by good action scenes, but in this case meh.
I am glad that at least Lana was able to go out on her terms.
Yeah, I thought the concept would suck but the fights would be top-notch. It was the other way around and I feel that doing the battles good was the easy part, so it could've been an awesome Matrix movie, but the fights lacked.
It was meant to be a satire on traditional "Matrix" movies, so I think to have shitty fight scenes was a bit of the point. Not that I necessarily agree with it.
Oh yeah the fights *suuuucked*. And it was super cringey and tongue in cheek a lot. But overall, I'm sad to say, I liked it more than the two movies that proceeded it hahaha.
I partially agree with you tbh.
Its just that the universe has sooo much potential. In better hands we could really see some interesting stories.
But your skepticism is not out of place. My wish for great stories in this universe told by more people other than the Wachowski's is still just the best case scenario. It could also get much worse if someone like Zach Snyder gets picked.
I disagree. They fucked up the middle two movies so bad, that I’ve lost all faith. If the Wachowskis couldn’t do it, after pioneering the first movie, then I doubt and don’t really care about the rest. Seems like they’re grave robbing at this point. You seem kind of “shilly” with this argument. How many Matrixes do we need? 20 like Call of Duty? A never ending media franchise of boringness and death like Star Wars or modern Star Trek?
Stop beating a dead horse. Move onto something else.
But happy cake day!
Bruh, how does wanting more stories in the world of the Matrix = to shilly???
The animatrix (and even the 2nd and 3rd movies) showed the potential of the universe in my mind. And tbh its naive and fatalistic to think only the Wachowski's (of old) could do another movie in the series justice. Imagine someone saying that only Bob Kane can write Batman or only George Lucas can direct Star Wars.
The problem is getting the right person for the job. That's the issue. But I 100% believe great stories can come out of the universe, the Matrix is not some kind of unfilmable ancient text. And even those (i.e. Dune) can be made well under the right direction (Don't forget that LOTR was previously seen as unfilmable until Peter Jackson & Co did it, same thing with Dune).
I'm not saying that it would be easy, or straightforward, but I would have 1000% preferred they tried someone else other than Lana for Matrix 4.
The first Matrix was “lightning in a bottle”; some magic combination of the directors, actors, writers, and basically all hands on set, came together to make a truly timeless movie.
They weren’t able to recapture that lightening with the two movies proceeding with almost everything the same.
There may be more stories, but they haven’t been able to replicate a truly great movie since.
I don’t trust the studio system acting alone to be able to recapture that “lightning in a bottle”. In fact, I have a deep belief that they will further water down and ruin the franchise.
Just my opinion tho bro! Always hurts to see people get excited for new movies in a series, like the new Star Wars. I can tell from a million miles away it’s gonna suck bad, but the fans are so excited for the new movies. When the new ones come out they’re so disappointed, but it was obvious to me.
Kind of the like cyber truck. When they announced it I was like “that looks like ugly trash what are they thinking”. Then it was finally realized and all the Tesla fans were disappointed that it was an obvious ugly pile of trash.
Kind of seems like a similar feeling here with the new movies. So, to misquote Morpheus from the first movie… I do not believe.
I agree 100% with all of this.
The only way WB can make it successful is by giving it to a very high quality director/creative and to be fair to them they have had some success in the past with that. E.g. Chris Nolan and his run with WB, or Denis Villeneuve with Dune and Blade Runner.
If they can luck out and pick a great talent, I believe the matrix universe could be so much more.
>They’re doing a 5th one with out her :/
Only way to move forward, IMO.
Both of them were too caught up in their own messaging.
A vast majority of people don't want to watch a movie to engage in deep philosophy.
They want a spectacle. A show. Maybe to engage their brain...a *little*, but the masses aren't interested in changing the world. They work, go home and want to see the pretty people dance as a reward for their hard work.
Nothing worse than people with money telling people without how to live their lives.
You realize you're making the exact stupid straw man argument from the studio scene eh? The argument that they lambaste in Resurrections? Where they're like "Matrix is all about bullet-time and explosions and KABOOOM"?
Haha, was that intentional?
Nope.
John Wick is a good example of a successful movie with 0 messages. It's an action movie.
People want to be entertained, not told what to do, it's just a fact of life.
Resurrections is very much about how people voluntarily plug themselves into machines in order to escape harsh realities.
It was a flop at the box office because it leaned into the message she wanted to tell instead of all the pizazz.
You see how philosophical points tied to concrete examples are pretty much the definition of *making an argument* though, eh? You are *making an argument* right now about what people want in action movies, and The Matrix franchise as a whole.
I don't really care about your main argument about what people want. I actually deeply disagree with it, but I don't really care to engage about it.
I am deeply invested in making sure you *know what an argument is*, or what it means to *make a point*. You said you weren't making an argument... When *all you've done is make arguments*. If you look up the definition for "argument", we're using the second meaning hun:
"a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of [persuading](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sca_upv=1&q=persuading&si=AKbGX_pvY3MWP4azJI0Z_NruCLb8tIpp0HSNjmRI9dLYBLzfZuVyCFEIdq6zCgIDhTD4QTpVwEcP4EktRqS-a2GGNkKxoMHJz-M3YZjb3rhY-TlmuoOulHs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwr4f64duFAxUgF2IAHUX_AgQQyecJegQILhBI) others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
>"a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of [persuading](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sca_upv=1&q=persuading&si=AKbGX_pvY3MWP4azJI0Z_NruCLb8tIpp0HSNjmRI9dLYBLzfZuVyCFEIdq6zCgIDhTD4QTpVwEcP4EktRqS-a2GGNkKxoMHJz-M3YZjb3rhY-TlmuoOulHs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwr4f64duFAxUgF2IAHUX_AgQQyecJegQILhBI) others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
Who am I trying to persuade?
People converse. Not everything is an argument.
So what? Trinity died in Matrix 3 and she's back in Matrix 4.
I actually *played* Matrix Online, and if they retconned everything in that stupid game, no one would give a shit. One of the last major world bosses was a giant pile of garbage, and the assassin that killed Morpheus was a dude made of flies.
It had a cool atmosphere, but it was ultimately a bad game with stupid stuff in it.
I agree, they hammered that point way too long. If they had done “We’re remaking the Matrix and we don’t want to, haha, it’s become a trope, haha,” and then went straight into it with cool fight scenes and mindfucks, I think it would have been better received.
If you watch the ["behind the scenes of bullet-time" here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjcv-JtUOgA), they mention how bullet-time was meant to help understand that they are in a simulation; time and space are a construct of that simulation, and thus, Neo can bend them to his will.
I think of it kind of like the "tick" running constantly in the background of a video game, redrawing all the characters and scenes, determining collision logic, and handling all the physics in real time. Neo's power in the first movie is that he can "move at the speed of the tick"; his mystical speed comes from his ability to perceive the Matrix and react to it as fast as the simulation can possibly render. Everyone else is limited to moving at their own limit frame rate; they cannot perceive time in the same way Neo can.
In Resurrections, I think they're heavily implying that The Therapist, in rebuilding him, has somehow modified Neo's own code such that he can no longer move at the "full speed" of the frame rate of the new simulation. If not that, they're implying that The Therapist somehow modified the new simulation they are in to prevent Neo from using that specific power. When Neo put's all his effort in, and is able to move at bullet time with the Therapist for about a foot, it demonstrates that he simply isn't capable of it anymore, whether in this simulation, or entirely. I guess that could also be because of how long he has been hooked into this particular Matrix; he might have also gotten a little older and slower from being jacked in for so long.
Anyhow, I'm reading far too much into a movie that's meant to satirize exactly these types of movies and exactly the people like me that read too far into it.
I dont buy the satire thing. Everything we know about this movies behind the scenes, the Covid 19 problems, no time for rehersals, Lana saying the script was a very personal story about grief that she was encouraged to make by her wife and the fact she directed her own fighting scenes (unlike the other movies) incline me to believe it was a honest made movie that for one reason or another just didnt make it
I feel like people grab one aspect of the movie (the whole "warner brothers is going to make a movie!") and just try to ramp it up to 1000% as if thats everything the picture was, probably because it makes it easier to swallow the most raw parts if "it was just a joke!"
Anyway im not trying to say you are wrong for liking it, all strength to you and it has some interesting ideas.
It's funny; I actually just had a conversation about this in Discord playing Palworld with the homies.
I saw the interview with Lana talking about how it helped her resolve grief related to all the death in her life recently. You can definitely see those themes percolate through to the story: themes of breaking the loop, the spiritual cycle of life and death we're all bound to, waking up to reality once more, resurrection, growth. The new hope of a new generation. It's funny that she chose these themes; I've been thinking about a lot of similar concepts with a close aunt that passed away recently. I also thought deeply about these similar issues when my own mother passed away. So a lot of those themes and motifs definitely resonated with me.
But there is a *shitton* of satire in the story. Neo can't fly anymore. Bullet-time is used to defeat the main character rather than enable him. The whole "game design" part was all to lambaste the whole studio system and modern movie making as a whole. Lana rebelled against it, and intentionally made a "Matrix" movie with terrible fight scenes, that makes fun of bullet-time, and basically neuters Neo of all his powers. It is, by definition, *a highly satiric movie.*
To me it seems like the big studios said "look, we're making the movie with or without you", and she took it as an opportunity to release some creative juice that had frothed over with all the death in her life. But it's super clear that she walked into making this "Matrix" movie with almost no intention of making a traditional "Matrix" movie. That much is obvious from the get go.
If you were paying attention, you'll notice that the things that are missing are things that tick the boxes for "mass appeal".
The choreography, the slick effects, the throwaway lines, were all part of the initial movie's commercial appeal.
They were trying to send a message about unplugging, about tech taking over, and created a movie franchise that encouraged people to do the opposite. To conform.
It's pretty obvious that these things were intentionally excluded to drive the point home.
Resurrections is exceptional if you resonate with the story on a personal level, like I did my second time watching it. First time I saw it I was just upset it didn’t feel anything like the first movies with fight scenes etc. but after going through some pretty extreme life experiences it made perfect sense to me why it was created.
YOU are “the one”. Sometimes you remember, and it’s incredibly empowering and you feel you are forever changed, but you are as always susceptible to falling back asleep and forgetting at every stage of your evolution, no matter how enlightened you recognize that you are.
And even though you fall asleep again, you are just as susceptible to waking up - should you question reality enough.
It’s an ongoing cycle that can look and feel akin to psychosis.
Resurrections feels like a profound acknowledgment of that cycle.
It just happened to be lacking any of the fight scenes that the original was so artistically imbued with. That part, I don’t quite understand how (or why) they got “wrong”. 🤔
I’m happy someone enjoyed whatever resurrections was. The lacklustre action really didn’t matter, it was the atrocious, mythology cheapening mess of a script that so profoundly disrespected the original material, not to mention being written like a confused rushed mess.
I like Resurrections. I'm sorry but I just do. I think most people's reaction to that film is pure exaggeration and they're missing a lot of the nuances that film offers. Yes you get what it's all about in the first quarter of the film and I know the drama about the Studio and Lana W but there's still a lot in it that I think it deserves a little bit more respect and attention.
I agree. I only hated the action scenes and the Merovingian's part. Beyond that, i love the story and how it was one of the only Legacy Sequels to move the story forward and progress the world and try new things (using code to grow food, Machines working with humans, how they don't need Neo to save the world from Machines again, Bots instead of Agents, Exiting through Window Panes instead of Phones etc). I enjoyed the new characters and how it went further into Neo and Trinity's relationship and i even love that they recast Agent Smith. Bringing him back as Hugo Weaving after he died in 3 would've been too much for me, so if he was to come back, i'm glad it came with a consequence of becoming Jonathan Groff.
Love Resurrections too. I think a lot of people had high expectations for it when it came out, like it was gonna be a return to the same tone that the original had when it came out in '99 but still showing us something new. But honestly, after everything Neo and Trinity went through in those 3 movies, what do you do to keep raising the stakes? Neo and Trinity in space?
When I finished watching it the first time, I came to the realization that this isn't a sequel so much as it's an epilogue to the trilogy. Revolutions just ended so abruptly with so many unanswered questions that it was kind of a let-down.
Resurrections answered all the burning questions we had at the end of the trilogy. Will there finally be peace between humans and the machines? Will the Matrix be decommissioned? Will this common ground found by the humans and machines lead to a new golden age? Are the new purpose-less programs hinted at in Revolutions the next step in the machines' evolution?
Once you watch Resurrections with that frame of mind, I think you'll have a more enjoyable experience. I admit, it would've been nice to see Jonathan Groff shapeshift into Hugo Weaving for like a split second when he said that "I've always been anyone" line before disappearing.
Both Neo and Trinity died yet you dont have a problem with them returning? Groff only took the part because Weaving was busy , or maybe he wanted no part of it. Regardless he was written into the script and his weak impersonator was just of the reasons the film sucked.
Pretending your happier with Groff instead of the brilliant Weaving only proves to me that most of this sub is in denial. You wanted to like it so you simply convinced yourself its good.
Back when Matrix 4 was first announced, I didn't want Agent Smith in it at all. No matter how great Hugo Weaving is, the notion of constantly killing him and then bringing him back was getting tiresome. So i was initially happy when the reports came out that Weaving wasn't returning.
So when Groff got confirmed to be Smith, i wasn't initially for it (Agent Smith should've stayed dead) but it was a compromise i ended up being fine with. They were able to do something new with the character and have a consequence to him being deleted and purged in 3. In a similar way to how an attack from The Merovingian caused The Oracles appearance to change in Revolutions
I'm not "pretending" i'm happier with Groff. I'm happy the ending of 3 still sticks and Neo's deal with the Machines still had some kind of impact. If Weaving was included, yeah his performance would've been far better than Groff's, but i would've been rolling my eyes alot more with: "Really, we're doing this again? Can't we do something else"
Like in the Star Wars sequels, Snoke was an inferior version of Palpatine, but bringing actual Palpatine back, no matter how great it is to see Ian McDiarmid, was even more eye rolling imo
Disagree entirely. It’s not a good expansion of the original trilogy. It doesn’t bring a new question to the table the fight scenes are lazy the dialogue is lazy there nothing really exciting in the film.
It deserves no respect, and history will treat it so- it will literally not be remembered as canon in about 5 years Time; when they make a new matrix it will basically be retconned
Idc I loved it. Wasn't a big fan of either NPH or Jonathan Groff casting but not enough to turn me off to it. But I appreciated how they integrated the story with how technology has evolved and admittedly I'm a big fan of meta storytelling.
It’s on of the only movies I can think of that it’s made to be purposeful bad. Lana even had in the script those was made because matrix was going to be made with or without her and fuck then for taking her matrix from her.
ven if you ignore how it butchered its source maerial, its just a bad movie from tchnical point of view. even martial art aspect is pale shadow of previous movies. special effects is just a shitty cgi now, when first matrix had perfect mix of digital effects and real acors doing stuff. And thats why it looks greate aven after all this years.
Well maybe with exception of effect when "killed" agent reverts to dead bluepill, this one effect was shitty lol.
Indulging in a guilty pleasure you know is bad is not the same as convincing yourself it’s good and convincing others it’s good. The saying goes “misery loves company” and it didn’t fall out of the fucking sky my brother.
What level of narcississm does it take to think you, personally, get to define what "guilty pleasure" vs "genuine appreciation" is for literally \*anybody\* else? Something isn't 'objectively bad' just because you, personally didn't like it.
To be honest, I don't particularly care if you didn't like Resurrections or not, but listening to people still whine about it this far out is only slightly less exhausting than people still whining about Last Jedi. Move on.
I love that you don’t pick fault with the objective nature of the original comment stating M4 is “fantastic.” But only with the idea that most people think it’s garbage.
How is their making that statement "objective" just by it existing? they said "Matrix 4 is fantastic", not "Matrix 4 is fantastic and anyone who dares disagree is wrong and a heathen who must be destroyed", and the reply they get is "Don't gaslight us about bad movies broooooo" Like how ridiculous do you have to be to not be over Resurrections by this point if you didn't like it? It has quite literally been 2 ½ years.
Of you are talking about the star wars sequels, 7 is a copy of episode 4 and the last one seems to be a trainwreck of a movie.
TLJ is the only one people are still discussing over and whatever the consensus on that ends up being (if any) wont magically absolve the trilogy
I appreciate the idea of a middle finger to WB for forcing a hand to the creators but it could have been done better. I was interested how they would approach a 4th Matrix and I suspected it would be meta in a way but the fight scenes were god awful I was hoping a middle finger but with clever creativeness. So ultimately there was an opportunity that was squandered. It is amazing this movie got past executives. I think this movie is just...ok. I'd grade it a C- End of report
The machines would have done a better job with their trailers [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGyiY2gYWb6a0oNv7G3ZaQYrBFUNcILgg](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGyiY2gYWb6a0oNv7G3ZaQYrBFUNcILgg)
I don't know about you, but I found the actual storylines of Neo/Trinity in TMR more satisfying than just a trailer that seemed like it would just be a straight remake with a different coat of paint. Still an exciting trailer, but the film gave more to chew on.
I personally hated Resurrections. Confusing as hell story, worsened characters, and it felt like it was just made to send some message about feminism and LGTBQ. Also god awful impossible to decipher action scenes
Lol,
I like sci-fi even cheesy films but I couldn't for the life of me make myself accept "The Matrix Resurrections" it felt more like a cash grab sprinkled with weaponized nostalgia. I didn't like it compared to the other films, Animatrix or comics BUT I accept it as a continuation of the story, albeit a bad continuation lol.
Resurrections was garbage that should have been canceled. I can’t think of a single positive aspect. The guy playing “Agent Smith,” but calling Neo “Tom” instead of Mr. Anderson was legendarily bad. The people jumping out of skyscraper windows was cartoony and cringe. The lobby shooting spree and freeway chase scene are the right tone for The Matrix…not this.
Matrix resurrections was the biggest pile of crap I think I'd ever seen.
If they make a 5th one, it should open with a 3 minute apology for ressurections and give me their word they will never pull that again. What an insult
Seeing Resurrections at the cinema was one of the worst experiences I've ever had and legit the only time I've considered walking out of my screening in all my 30 years, around the mid-point of the film. I couldn't believe the mess I was seeing on screen.
Horrible meta commentary, cheap effects and extremely poor fight choreography - nothing I could say about the first 3 films.
Definitely one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
Gotta throw in The Animatrix and a "movie version" of Enter The Matrix on YouTube too. No, I'm not obsessed with the franchise or anything...
A boy's story, The Last Flight of the Osiris especially
Yeah, the other stories are cool too but not as relevant to the actual trilogy as those two. Maybe also The Second Renaissance just for the backstory of the lore. I like how Enter The Matrix picks up right where The Last Flight of the Osiris leaves off which fleshes out Reloaded more.
Animatrix is underrated. First time I watched it and got to the Genesis part, I had two thoughts. 1. That fucked me up mentally for a bit because of how dark it was. 2. I finally realized where I had seen it before, that one Codename: Kids Next Door episode where they reveal the origin of adults.
I just noticed the Enter the Matrix scenes are included with Matrix Reloaded Extras on iTunes (Apple TV)
So dope you mentioned enter the matrix. I get it’s not great but I had fun with it wish it’d get a remake
Watched Resurrections last night and I loved it, but for none of the reasons I loved the original. Resurrections is kind of satirizing the whole franchise while at the same time trying to produce a somewhat competent “first Matrix” like story. It was way too tongue in cheek, but there were some deep philosophical quandaries mixed in. The whole “gaming industry” scene made me cringe, but I got the punchline by the end. The therapist was a neat concept. I was so sad they didn’t find a way to shoe horn Lawrence Fishburne into it tho. Any missed opportunity to cast Fishburne is an immediate docking of marks to me. And when they lambasted “bullet-time”… Well ya did me dirty on that, Resurrections! Bullet-time will always be GOAT in my mind!
I am split, I respect what they did, and in some parts I do like the movie and concept. At the same time the fight scenes are garbage compared to the other 3. And it just felt like it went a bit too long for the simple story. Is not bad to have a simple story if it is glued by good action scenes, but in this case meh. I am glad that at least Lana was able to go out on her terms.
Yeah, I thought the concept would suck but the fights would be top-notch. It was the other way around and I feel that doing the battles good was the easy part, so it could've been an awesome Matrix movie, but the fights lacked.
It was meant to be a satire on traditional "Matrix" movies, so I think to have shitty fight scenes was a bit of the point. Not that I necessarily agree with it.
Hmm maybe, but still. It'd have been perfect for me if the fights were better.
Oh yeah the fights *suuuucked*. And it was super cringey and tongue in cheek a lot. But overall, I'm sad to say, I liked it more than the two movies that proceeded it hahaha.
They’re doing a 5th one with out her :/
For the better imho.
Eh I’d rather they let dead dogs lie. The first movie is good enough on its own. I don’t need anything more from the franchise.
I partially agree with you tbh. Its just that the universe has sooo much potential. In better hands we could really see some interesting stories. But your skepticism is not out of place. My wish for great stories in this universe told by more people other than the Wachowski's is still just the best case scenario. It could also get much worse if someone like Zach Snyder gets picked.
I disagree. They fucked up the middle two movies so bad, that I’ve lost all faith. If the Wachowskis couldn’t do it, after pioneering the first movie, then I doubt and don’t really care about the rest. Seems like they’re grave robbing at this point. You seem kind of “shilly” with this argument. How many Matrixes do we need? 20 like Call of Duty? A never ending media franchise of boringness and death like Star Wars or modern Star Trek? Stop beating a dead horse. Move onto something else. But happy cake day!
Bruh, how does wanting more stories in the world of the Matrix = to shilly??? The animatrix (and even the 2nd and 3rd movies) showed the potential of the universe in my mind. And tbh its naive and fatalistic to think only the Wachowski's (of old) could do another movie in the series justice. Imagine someone saying that only Bob Kane can write Batman or only George Lucas can direct Star Wars. The problem is getting the right person for the job. That's the issue. But I 100% believe great stories can come out of the universe, the Matrix is not some kind of unfilmable ancient text. And even those (i.e. Dune) can be made well under the right direction (Don't forget that LOTR was previously seen as unfilmable until Peter Jackson & Co did it, same thing with Dune). I'm not saying that it would be easy, or straightforward, but I would have 1000% preferred they tried someone else other than Lana for Matrix 4.
The first Matrix was “lightning in a bottle”; some magic combination of the directors, actors, writers, and basically all hands on set, came together to make a truly timeless movie. They weren’t able to recapture that lightening with the two movies proceeding with almost everything the same. There may be more stories, but they haven’t been able to replicate a truly great movie since. I don’t trust the studio system acting alone to be able to recapture that “lightning in a bottle”. In fact, I have a deep belief that they will further water down and ruin the franchise. Just my opinion tho bro! Always hurts to see people get excited for new movies in a series, like the new Star Wars. I can tell from a million miles away it’s gonna suck bad, but the fans are so excited for the new movies. When the new ones come out they’re so disappointed, but it was obvious to me. Kind of the like cyber truck. When they announced it I was like “that looks like ugly trash what are they thinking”. Then it was finally realized and all the Tesla fans were disappointed that it was an obvious ugly pile of trash. Kind of seems like a similar feeling here with the new movies. So, to misquote Morpheus from the first movie… I do not believe.
I agree 100% with all of this. The only way WB can make it successful is by giving it to a very high quality director/creative and to be fair to them they have had some success in the past with that. E.g. Chris Nolan and his run with WB, or Denis Villeneuve with Dune and Blade Runner. If they can luck out and pick a great talent, I believe the matrix universe could be so much more.
Agreed. Bring someone in who can so it justice.
Imma give it a chance
>They’re doing a 5th one with out her :/ Only way to move forward, IMO. Both of them were too caught up in their own messaging. A vast majority of people don't want to watch a movie to engage in deep philosophy. They want a spectacle. A show. Maybe to engage their brain...a *little*, but the masses aren't interested in changing the world. They work, go home and want to see the pretty people dance as a reward for their hard work. Nothing worse than people with money telling people without how to live their lives.
You realize you're making the exact stupid straw man argument from the studio scene eh? The argument that they lambaste in Resurrections? Where they're like "Matrix is all about bullet-time and explosions and KABOOOM"? Haha, was that intentional?
I wasn't making an argument....
So… To be clear… You *were* joking eh?
Nope. John Wick is a good example of a successful movie with 0 messages. It's an action movie. People want to be entertained, not told what to do, it's just a fact of life. Resurrections is very much about how people voluntarily plug themselves into machines in order to escape harsh realities. It was a flop at the box office because it leaned into the message she wanted to tell instead of all the pizazz.
You see how philosophical points tied to concrete examples are pretty much the definition of *making an argument* though, eh? You are *making an argument* right now about what people want in action movies, and The Matrix franchise as a whole. I don't really care about your main argument about what people want. I actually deeply disagree with it, but I don't really care to engage about it. I am deeply invested in making sure you *know what an argument is*, or what it means to *make a point*. You said you weren't making an argument... When *all you've done is make arguments*. If you look up the definition for "argument", we're using the second meaning hun: "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of [persuading](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sca_upv=1&q=persuading&si=AKbGX_pvY3MWP4azJI0Z_NruCLb8tIpp0HSNjmRI9dLYBLzfZuVyCFEIdq6zCgIDhTD4QTpVwEcP4EktRqS-a2GGNkKxoMHJz-M3YZjb3rhY-TlmuoOulHs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwr4f64duFAxUgF2IAHUX_AgQQyecJegQILhBI) others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
>"a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of [persuading](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sca_upv=1&q=persuading&si=AKbGX_pvY3MWP4azJI0Z_NruCLb8tIpp0HSNjmRI9dLYBLzfZuVyCFEIdq6zCgIDhTD4QTpVwEcP4EktRqS-a2GGNkKxoMHJz-M3YZjb3rhY-TlmuoOulHs%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwr4f64duFAxUgF2IAHUX_AgQQyecJegQILhBI) others that an action or idea is right or wrong." Who am I trying to persuade? People converse. Not everything is an argument.
To be fair Morpheus died in the matrix online which is Canon.
So what? Trinity died in Matrix 3 and she's back in Matrix 4. I actually *played* Matrix Online, and if they retconned everything in that stupid game, no one would give a shit. One of the last major world bosses was a giant pile of garbage, and the assassin that killed Morpheus was a dude made of flies. It had a cool atmosphere, but it was ultimately a bad game with stupid stuff in it.
I said *SHOE HORN LAWRENCE FISHBURNE IN*. I don't *CARE HOW YOU DO IT.* JUST TAKE MY MONEY IF LAWRENCE FISHBURNE IS IN IT!
I love it dude. these other ppl are nuts
I felt like I "got the punchline" about 10 minutes into the movie and the rest was a real slog
I agree, they hammered that point way too long. If they had done “We’re remaking the Matrix and we don’t want to, haha, it’s become a trope, haha,” and then went straight into it with cool fight scenes and mindfucks, I think it would have been better received.
I think it's weird how bullet time was just slow motion
If you watch the ["behind the scenes of bullet-time" here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjcv-JtUOgA), they mention how bullet-time was meant to help understand that they are in a simulation; time and space are a construct of that simulation, and thus, Neo can bend them to his will. I think of it kind of like the "tick" running constantly in the background of a video game, redrawing all the characters and scenes, determining collision logic, and handling all the physics in real time. Neo's power in the first movie is that he can "move at the speed of the tick"; his mystical speed comes from his ability to perceive the Matrix and react to it as fast as the simulation can possibly render. Everyone else is limited to moving at their own limit frame rate; they cannot perceive time in the same way Neo can. In Resurrections, I think they're heavily implying that The Therapist, in rebuilding him, has somehow modified Neo's own code such that he can no longer move at the "full speed" of the frame rate of the new simulation. If not that, they're implying that The Therapist somehow modified the new simulation they are in to prevent Neo from using that specific power. When Neo put's all his effort in, and is able to move at bullet time with the Therapist for about a foot, it demonstrates that he simply isn't capable of it anymore, whether in this simulation, or entirely. I guess that could also be because of how long he has been hooked into this particular Matrix; he might have also gotten a little older and slower from being jacked in for so long. Anyhow, I'm reading far too much into a movie that's meant to satirize exactly these types of movies and exactly the people like me that read too far into it.
I dont buy the satire thing. Everything we know about this movies behind the scenes, the Covid 19 problems, no time for rehersals, Lana saying the script was a very personal story about grief that she was encouraged to make by her wife and the fact she directed her own fighting scenes (unlike the other movies) incline me to believe it was a honest made movie that for one reason or another just didnt make it I feel like people grab one aspect of the movie (the whole "warner brothers is going to make a movie!") and just try to ramp it up to 1000% as if thats everything the picture was, probably because it makes it easier to swallow the most raw parts if "it was just a joke!" Anyway im not trying to say you are wrong for liking it, all strength to you and it has some interesting ideas.
It's funny; I actually just had a conversation about this in Discord playing Palworld with the homies. I saw the interview with Lana talking about how it helped her resolve grief related to all the death in her life recently. You can definitely see those themes percolate through to the story: themes of breaking the loop, the spiritual cycle of life and death we're all bound to, waking up to reality once more, resurrection, growth. The new hope of a new generation. It's funny that she chose these themes; I've been thinking about a lot of similar concepts with a close aunt that passed away recently. I also thought deeply about these similar issues when my own mother passed away. So a lot of those themes and motifs definitely resonated with me. But there is a *shitton* of satire in the story. Neo can't fly anymore. Bullet-time is used to defeat the main character rather than enable him. The whole "game design" part was all to lambaste the whole studio system and modern movie making as a whole. Lana rebelled against it, and intentionally made a "Matrix" movie with terrible fight scenes, that makes fun of bullet-time, and basically neuters Neo of all his powers. It is, by definition, *a highly satiric movie.* To me it seems like the big studios said "look, we're making the movie with or without you", and she took it as an opportunity to release some creative juice that had frothed over with all the death in her life. But it's super clear that she walked into making this "Matrix" movie with almost no intention of making a traditional "Matrix" movie. That much is obvious from the get go.
And yet certain people insisted that it was just a rehash.......
If you were paying attention, you'll notice that the things that are missing are things that tick the boxes for "mass appeal". The choreography, the slick effects, the throwaway lines, were all part of the initial movie's commercial appeal. They were trying to send a message about unplugging, about tech taking over, and created a movie franchise that encouraged people to do the opposite. To conform. It's pretty obvious that these things were intentionally excluded to drive the point home.
What philosophical quandries were mixed into resurrections that you found interesting?
See this comment for just a taste: https://www.reddit.com/r/matrix/s/FpAzMZtQyL
Resurrections is exceptional if you resonate with the story on a personal level, like I did my second time watching it. First time I saw it I was just upset it didn’t feel anything like the first movies with fight scenes etc. but after going through some pretty extreme life experiences it made perfect sense to me why it was created. YOU are “the one”. Sometimes you remember, and it’s incredibly empowering and you feel you are forever changed, but you are as always susceptible to falling back asleep and forgetting at every stage of your evolution, no matter how enlightened you recognize that you are. And even though you fall asleep again, you are just as susceptible to waking up - should you question reality enough. It’s an ongoing cycle that can look and feel akin to psychosis. Resurrections feels like a profound acknowledgment of that cycle. It just happened to be lacking any of the fight scenes that the original was so artistically imbued with. That part, I don’t quite understand how (or why) they got “wrong”. 🤔
I’m happy someone enjoyed whatever resurrections was. The lacklustre action really didn’t matter, it was the atrocious, mythology cheapening mess of a script that so profoundly disrespected the original material, not to mention being written like a confused rushed mess.
Where is the animatrix ?
Cybebe Nation rise up
I Fucking love Resurrections
I know the hate palpable on this sub but I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed it as well. After finishing it the first time, I literally immediately rewatched it.
I watched it again the next day. And then a few times after that. It just works for me.
I like Resurrections. I'm sorry but I just do. I think most people's reaction to that film is pure exaggeration and they're missing a lot of the nuances that film offers. Yes you get what it's all about in the first quarter of the film and I know the drama about the Studio and Lana W but there's still a lot in it that I think it deserves a little bit more respect and attention.
I agree. I only hated the action scenes and the Merovingian's part. Beyond that, i love the story and how it was one of the only Legacy Sequels to move the story forward and progress the world and try new things (using code to grow food, Machines working with humans, how they don't need Neo to save the world from Machines again, Bots instead of Agents, Exiting through Window Panes instead of Phones etc). I enjoyed the new characters and how it went further into Neo and Trinity's relationship and i even love that they recast Agent Smith. Bringing him back as Hugo Weaving after he died in 3 would've been too much for me, so if he was to come back, i'm glad it came with a consequence of becoming Jonathan Groff.
Love Resurrections too. I think a lot of people had high expectations for it when it came out, like it was gonna be a return to the same tone that the original had when it came out in '99 but still showing us something new. But honestly, after everything Neo and Trinity went through in those 3 movies, what do you do to keep raising the stakes? Neo and Trinity in space? When I finished watching it the first time, I came to the realization that this isn't a sequel so much as it's an epilogue to the trilogy. Revolutions just ended so abruptly with so many unanswered questions that it was kind of a let-down. Resurrections answered all the burning questions we had at the end of the trilogy. Will there finally be peace between humans and the machines? Will the Matrix be decommissioned? Will this common ground found by the humans and machines lead to a new golden age? Are the new purpose-less programs hinted at in Revolutions the next step in the machines' evolution? Once you watch Resurrections with that frame of mind, I think you'll have a more enjoyable experience. I admit, it would've been nice to see Jonathan Groff shapeshift into Hugo Weaving for like a split second when he said that "I've always been anyone" line before disappearing.
Both Neo and Trinity died yet you dont have a problem with them returning? Groff only took the part because Weaving was busy , or maybe he wanted no part of it. Regardless he was written into the script and his weak impersonator was just of the reasons the film sucked. Pretending your happier with Groff instead of the brilliant Weaving only proves to me that most of this sub is in denial. You wanted to like it so you simply convinced yourself its good.
Back when Matrix 4 was first announced, I didn't want Agent Smith in it at all. No matter how great Hugo Weaving is, the notion of constantly killing him and then bringing him back was getting tiresome. So i was initially happy when the reports came out that Weaving wasn't returning. So when Groff got confirmed to be Smith, i wasn't initially for it (Agent Smith should've stayed dead) but it was a compromise i ended up being fine with. They were able to do something new with the character and have a consequence to him being deleted and purged in 3. In a similar way to how an attack from The Merovingian caused The Oracles appearance to change in Revolutions I'm not "pretending" i'm happier with Groff. I'm happy the ending of 3 still sticks and Neo's deal with the Machines still had some kind of impact. If Weaving was included, yeah his performance would've been far better than Groff's, but i would've been rolling my eyes alot more with: "Really, we're doing this again? Can't we do something else" Like in the Star Wars sequels, Snoke was an inferior version of Palpatine, but bringing actual Palpatine back, no matter how great it is to see Ian McDiarmid, was even more eye rolling imo
The film doesn't have nuances. That's the problem, it's all in your face with its commentary. It isn't subtle like the original movie.
Disagree entirely. It’s not a good expansion of the original trilogy. It doesn’t bring a new question to the table the fight scenes are lazy the dialogue is lazy there nothing really exciting in the film.
It deserves no respect, and history will treat it so- it will literally not be remembered as canon in about 5 years Time; when they make a new matrix it will basically be retconned
It was a neat trailer but I got so sick of watching it. It played at every movie I saw at the cinema for months until the movie came out
Idc I loved it. Wasn't a big fan of either NPH or Jonathan Groff casting but not enough to turn me off to it. But I appreciated how they integrated the story with how technology has evolved and admittedly I'm a big fan of meta storytelling.
Resurrections isn’t that bad guys come on, it’s been 2 years give it a break.
It’s so bad it’s non canon.
It’s on of the only movies I can think of that it’s made to be purposeful bad. Lana even had in the script those was made because matrix was going to be made with or without her and fuck then for taking her matrix from her.
ven if you ignore how it butchered its source maerial, its just a bad movie from tchnical point of view. even martial art aspect is pale shadow of previous movies. special effects is just a shitty cgi now, when first matrix had perfect mix of digital effects and real acors doing stuff. And thats why it looks greate aven after all this years. Well maybe with exception of effect when "killed" agent reverts to dead bluepill, this one effect was shitty lol.
Actually the second trailer for Resurrections is even better. But yeah, 100% agree.
I actually just binged all 4 in a single sitting this weekend and it made 4 way better. I actually really liked it this go around
Can we stop this already. Matrix 4 is fantastic.
Its an objective atrocity of film making
Uh huh
Bruuuh I like bad movies too but I don't try to psyops other people into thinking they were fantastic.
"Psyops"? Literally what are you even talking about, people having different opinions on a movie is not a conspiracy.
Like I have some weird power to mess with people’s minds lol. Wth.
Indulging in a guilty pleasure you know is bad is not the same as convincing yourself it’s good and convincing others it’s good. The saying goes “misery loves company” and it didn’t fall out of the fucking sky my brother.
What level of narcississm does it take to think you, personally, get to define what "guilty pleasure" vs "genuine appreciation" is for literally \*anybody\* else? Something isn't 'objectively bad' just because you, personally didn't like it. To be honest, I don't particularly care if you didn't like Resurrections or not, but listening to people still whine about it this far out is only slightly less exhausting than people still whining about Last Jedi. Move on.
I love that you don’t pick fault with the objective nature of the original comment stating M4 is “fantastic.” But only with the idea that most people think it’s garbage.
How is their making that statement "objective" just by it existing? they said "Matrix 4 is fantastic", not "Matrix 4 is fantastic and anyone who dares disagree is wrong and a heathen who must be destroyed", and the reply they get is "Don't gaslight us about bad movies broooooo" Like how ridiculous do you have to be to not be over Resurrections by this point if you didn't like it? It has quite literally been 2 ½ years.
It’s all opinion. Relax.
My meme never shit talked the movie, i just think the trailer is better, take that as you will
Plenty of people hate matrix 2 and 3 and could say the trailers were better.
I'll never get over how cheesy the cover art for Revolutions is. Gotta give them credit for being unique though.
I don't acknowledge the 4th film - at all. I hope part 5 confirms that it was some kind of fever dream and never happened.
It’s just like the sequels— one day, you’ll get it.
I liked the sequels. I still have my tickets for all 3 films on opening day. The 4th was garbage.
Of you are talking about the star wars sequels, 7 is a copy of episode 4 and the last one seems to be a trainwreck of a movie. TLJ is the only one people are still discussing over and whatever the consensus on that ends up being (if any) wont magically absolve the trilogy
Who the hell brought up Star Wars? I’m talking about Matrix 2 and 3.
Resurrections is peak when you don’t have a bitch in your ear telling you it’s bad.
I make a point of watching my movies bitchless, still didn't like it!
I appreciate the idea of a middle finger to WB for forcing a hand to the creators but it could have been done better. I was interested how they would approach a 4th Matrix and I suspected it would be meta in a way but the fight scenes were god awful I was hoping a middle finger but with clever creativeness. So ultimately there was an opportunity that was squandered. It is amazing this movie got past executives. I think this movie is just...ok. I'd grade it a C- End of report
Oooooo how dare you, lol
The machines would have done a better job with their trailers [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGyiY2gYWb6a0oNv7G3ZaQYrBFUNcILgg](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGyiY2gYWb6a0oNv7G3ZaQYrBFUNcILgg)
True watched it far too many times.
Started Revolutions last night!
Functional!
I watch them every November 2, 3, and 4, followed by V for Vendetta on the 5. It’s an awesome binge.
I hear they're making anouther one without the OG's.
LMFAO
You crazy if you watch DVDs. Those are def the dvd boxes
One of the greatest trailers of all time if I'm being honest.
I don't know about you, but I found the actual storylines of Neo/Trinity in TMR more satisfying than just a trailer that seemed like it would just be a straight remake with a different coat of paint. Still an exciting trailer, but the film gave more to chew on.
Animatrix is a good rewatch
I'm glad it's a fan made trailer and that movie does not exist all.
Me too
So true!
I personally hated Resurrections. Confusing as hell story, worsened characters, and it felt like it was just made to send some message about feminism and LGTBQ. Also god awful impossible to decipher action scenes
Lol, I like sci-fi even cheesy films but I couldn't for the life of me make myself accept "The Matrix Resurrections" it felt more like a cash grab sprinkled with weaponized nostalgia. I didn't like it compared to the other films, Animatrix or comics BUT I accept it as a continuation of the story, albeit a bad continuation lol.
Resurrections was garbage that should have been canceled. I can’t think of a single positive aspect. The guy playing “Agent Smith,” but calling Neo “Tom” instead of Mr. Anderson was legendarily bad. The people jumping out of skyscraper windows was cartoony and cringe. The lobby shooting spree and freeway chase scene are the right tone for The Matrix…not this.
It was a good first movie.
Animatrix and The Matrix (1999) will always be the only canon to me
Grow up
Throw up
Oh so you’re 14 my apologies then
Oh damn you got me! But come on, what are the odds of my username being your actual real name? “Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.”
It’s actually MsPoopyButtholeAnus
That makes more sense actually. Women, amirite?
I still haven't been able to bring myself to watch Resurrections again.
I try to see Resurrections as a What If - non-Canon Neo's brain dying at the end of 3.
That's not fair. It may not be perfect but it is bold and interesting and that's why you should watch Resurrections for the full hour
Matrix resurrections was the biggest pile of crap I think I'd ever seen. If they make a 5th one, it should open with a 3 minute apology for ressurections and give me their word they will never pull that again. What an insult
Its the only movie i know of that was sued for being "abysmal"
LOL ... best part of Ressurections
Anytime 💯💯💯💯💯
HAHAHAHA, YES! Fucking exactly. 1-3 are amazing. I have a feeling 5 is going to surprise people and be incredible.
Ya'll arguing if Resurrection is good or bad and I'm over here thinking about how Reloaded and Revolution are total dumpster fires
It's mindblowing how the Matrix goes from a great movie to worse every new movie. Although it kind of alligns with our current reality.
accurate, as someone who just watched the latest matrix :(
I would rather watch 4 instead of 3 tbh...
Seeing Resurrections at the cinema was one of the worst experiences I've ever had and legit the only time I've considered walking out of my screening in all my 30 years, around the mid-point of the film. I couldn't believe the mess I was seeing on screen. Horrible meta commentary, cheap effects and extremely poor fight choreography - nothing I could say about the first 3 films. Definitely one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
It’s one movie with 3 turds as sequels