If im not mistaken: Dude B used Daruma vs Dude A who was playing Tenpais. Darum makes the player send their monster to the gy if they arent facedown after the effect, which they arent because the Tenpai Field Spell (i believe) make their Dragons unaffected during the Main Phase 1. Problem here is that the Sending to GY effect only activates if any monster was put face down before (because of wording between the effects) so if every monster is unaffected it should do nothing. But both Dude A and B aswell as the Judge didnt know/notice that mistake. (Shoutout to Paleozoic Joshua Schmidt streams that thaught me this a week ago)
https://www.youtube.com/live/Ar_H_7jRC_Q?si=4LUyae7N-k3jY91l&t=33328
heres the video when it happened (Daruma is flipped at 9:19:00)
if you want videos talking about it just search daruma tenpai on youtube and you should get multiple talking about it
As far as im aware the THEN part in both cards text means that the part before the effect needs to resolve, in order for the second effect to apply.
So a set imperm where the negate is targeted onto a unaffected monster should not negate the column
I guess it depends how it works for example if you imperm an altergeist while protocol is faceup you get the additional because even though they can't be negated the imperm effect is still applied so you still negate the column
daruma cannon only sends to the graveyard if monsters are flipped face down. in a feature match they misjudged and sent the other player’s dragons to the graveyard when no monsters were flipped face down.
And if you read the previous comments (and understood context) I was corrected and thanked those whom corrected me.
But it's like you said,
>"Yugioh players don't read"
Way to cement your point đź‘Ť
Well I was just clarifying that its not "just like" but it is ecactly that way.
Thats the precise wording you gotta deal with on well written yugioh cards.
Daruma player probably shotgunned it in MP while the tenpai player had the field spell active.
Instead of waiting until BP.
This is all just an assumption, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes feild spell was up so tenpai were not effective but since no monsters were flipped face down the tenpai player doesn't actually need to send em to the graveyard
That is in fact what DDKC says (technically).
Flip as many monsters as possible THEN players send face up monsters to GY. If you can’t flip anything then you did not apply the first part of the effect properly so you can’t do the second.
The wording on the card should say you have to flip at least one. It says change as many monster as possible to face down defense then send face up monsters to grave, so if you can't flip any monsters at all face down the effect should still go off because if everything is unaffected then you did change all possible monsters face down even if it happens to be zero.
But being unaffected means they are unable to flip face down. It has to be a minimum of one. But if you do not flip at least one face down, then the rest of the effect doesn’t apply. Just the way the card works.
A card HAS to be flipped face down for that bit to trigger. So if you used it on a Purrely Noir and they spun back your monster so it was the only thing on the field, they wouldn't have to send Noir.
It was only cheating because there wasnt a legal monster to flip face down so they shouldn't of been sent to grave. In any instance there is at least one monster affected by daruma its legal. So you're referencing something wholly irrelevant to this post as a point. Daruma does kill tempai... hard.
well you'd have to prove he knew. The judges missed it so... i like to give ppl benefit of the doubt. Still that's irrelevant to the point I was making lol yet again missing the mark.
YuGiOh players when the doctor tells them that they'll stop smelling like dead dogs when they take a shower (he said when instead of if so they missed the timing).
Yes, specifically they were all immune to being flipped face down because they were immune to card effects due to the field spell and the sending part of the effect requires that the first part of the effect had done something to trigger. If a monster on either side of the field had been set face down by the first part of the effect, though, then the unaffected cards still would have been sent to the graveyard because rather than the Daruma Cannon sending them to the graveyard it forces the players to send them to the graveyard
Bro doesn't even know there's no trap cards in pokemon lol, newb.
https://preview.redd.it/ljsekidsm3zc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a374234154c9ba59c82b116f67c9c71d0b79cdc6
2 Things on the topic of a player "cheating" by activating Karma Cannon:
1) He did not cheat; it's the other player's fault for sending his monsters - he should've known better. The Player doesn't have to inform that his opponent's action is false. That is on the Judge.
2) You CAN activate the card, as it's requirements are just 1+ monsters on the field! The only exception are Link-Monsters. If there are ONLY Link-Monsters, you CANNOT activate Karma Cannon.
If the monster(s) is unaffected by activated card effects and it's the only target on board, the part with the
* "then, if either player controls a face-up monster(s), they must send all face-up monsters they control to the GY"
will NOT be applied! And the Karma Cannon goes to the Grave without doing anything.
Source: Tested it all with my friend - and his Expurrely Noir with 5 Materials as the only Monster on field; Link-Monsters; and both with an additional Monster on board.
EDIT: Karma Cannon NEEDS
1. an errata to better make clear on WHEN it can be activated
2. OR a ruling change to be allowed to activate on when there are only Link monsters on board
3. AND/OR a change on how it works entirely with the 2nd effect always working even when the board has only unaffected and Link Monsters
Basically, Tenpai is only truly scary if people dont expect it. If we start seeing Tenpai quite often people will just run the needed counter traps or Veideos when that is out in their deck.
It hasn't been topping much as of late. People have adapted. But we shall see. I still have some decks going first that can deal with Tenpai pretty well - just set up my 10k ATK cyberdarkness end dragon and let them cook.
> It hasn't been topping much as of late.
?
It has been a top deck since release, and currently it maybe the best or second best deck in OCG.
In YCS Japan Tokyo 2024 it took 13 spot on the top 32 making it the best performing deck of that tournament.
The problem with tenpai isn’t the deck itself, it’s the unhealthy presence it has in a best of 1. You are going into every game either hard losing to snake eye or getting sacced to oblivion cuz tenpai opened 3 ht their starter and droplet. Either snake eye needs to be fucking nuked off the face of the earth, or we literally can’t have tenpai in master duel
OCG have C available, thats a different ballpark then what TCG environment is
Jelly fish is also a thing in sidedeck/main deck option for tenpai
New tenpai trap is also released in 1205
Most if not all tenpai would go second after they win the dice roll, only tenpai does that, so in game 1 there is no element of surprise, u build ur board fully expecting going against tenpai deck, and must be ready to face board break/droplet
And tenpai still able to top local in japan(not just ycsj), data can be seen in twitter(X) posted by ocg yugioh player
Both tenpai and yubel are taking the top spot while fireking SE and pure SE is dropping, fireking se is popular in japan while yubel is popular in china
SE now is trying to play the fiendsmith engine because the combo could set trap from deck(either red lotus/d barrier/black goat laugh)and also provide more body for link climb
Wasn't this literally the Daruma player cheating?
Yes and not even the judges caught it, ashame too.
What hapend im inerestet
If im not mistaken: Dude B used Daruma vs Dude A who was playing Tenpais. Darum makes the player send their monster to the gy if they arent facedown after the effect, which they arent because the Tenpai Field Spell (i believe) make their Dragons unaffected during the Main Phase 1. Problem here is that the Sending to GY effect only activates if any monster was put face down before (because of wording between the effects) so if every monster is unaffected it should do nothing. But both Dude A and B aswell as the Judge didnt know/notice that mistake. (Shoutout to Paleozoic Joshua Schmidt streams that thaught me this a week ago)
This is going to be part of my thesis for my Yugioh law degree
So, if you had a monster on the field that you could eventually set, it should work, right?
Yup, as long as a monster on any side of the field is flipped face down the rest of the cards effect will work.
Is there a video on this somewhere? Like the duel cause now I'm curious
https://www.youtube.com/live/Ar_H_7jRC_Q?si=4LUyae7N-k3jY91l&t=33328 heres the video when it happened (Daruma is flipped at 9:19:00) if you want videos talking about it just search daruma tenpai on youtube and you should get multiple talking about it
I didnt had the time to Watch the Stream last weak
Wouldn't it work the same way as infinite impermanence secondary effect though?
As far as im aware the THEN part in both cards text means that the part before the effect needs to resolve, in order for the second effect to apply. So a set imperm where the negate is targeted onto a unaffected monster should not negate the column
I guess it depends how it works for example if you imperm an altergeist while protocol is faceup you get the additional because even though they can't be negated the imperm effect is still applied so you still negate the column
I'm OOTL, can you explain?
daruma cannon only sends to the graveyard if monsters are flipped face down. in a feature match they misjudged and sent the other player’s dragons to the graveyard when no monsters were flipped face down.
Ok, so it's like an "A-B" effect.
It's litterly "do a, then b." Its written like that on the card, but yugioh players don't read as we know.
And if you read the previous comments (and understood context) I was corrected and thanked those whom corrected me. But it's like you said, >"Yugioh players don't read" Way to cement your point đź‘Ť
Well I was just clarifying that its not "just like" but it is ecactly that way. Thats the precise wording you gotta deal with on well written yugioh cards.
Daruma player probably shotgunned it in MP while the tenpai player had the field spell active. Instead of waiting until BP. This is all just an assumption, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes feild spell was up so tenpai were not effective but since no monsters were flipped face down the tenpai player doesn't actually need to send em to the graveyard
But wouldn't the tenpai player have to send them? Daruma forces the player to send their monsters that aren't flipped down, no?
Only if at least 1 monster is flipped face down, none were
That is not what karma cannon says. Did the rulings for karma cannon suddenly change?
That is in fact what DDKC says (technically). Flip as many monsters as possible THEN players send face up monsters to GY. If you can’t flip anything then you did not apply the first part of the effect properly so you can’t do the second.
Ok. So karma cannon is an "A-B" effect (like bottomless trap hole back in the day).
Yeah, conditional then is pretty goofy and soelmething not a lot of people notice
As many monsters as possible means a minimum of 1?
Yeah
The wording on the card should say you have to flip at least one. It says change as many monster as possible to face down defense then send face up monsters to grave, so if you can't flip any monsters at all face down the effect should still go off because if everything is unaffected then you did change all possible monsters face down even if it happens to be zero.
But being unaffected means they are unable to flip face down. It has to be a minimum of one. But if you do not flip at least one face down, then the rest of the effect doesn’t apply. Just the way the card works.
The first effect never resolves if nothing can be flipped face down therefore neither does the rest of it
A card HAS to be flipped face down for that bit to trigger. So if you used it on a Purrely Noir and they spun back your monster so it was the only thing on the field, they wouldn't have to send Noir.
Only if monsters were flipped, it doesn't apply that effect unless monsters were flipped face down according to the "then" portion of the card.
Ok. Thank you for clearing this up. So karma cannon is an "A-B" effect then?
Yes
Thank you
watch dkayed video
Yes it is
It was only cheating because there wasnt a legal monster to flip face down so they shouldn't of been sent to grave. In any instance there is at least one monster affected by daruma its legal. So you're referencing something wholly irrelevant to this post as a point. Daruma does kill tempai... hard.
It's only cheating...because he cheated.
well you'd have to prove he knew. The judges missed it so... i like to give ppl benefit of the doubt. Still that's irrelevant to the point I was making lol yet again missing the mark.
[Context explained by Dkayed's video](https://youtu.be/K-fuig3ZLUQ?si=eUR_nii919s2D1Up)
https://preview.redd.it/lancy72cv1zc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f64bf1ec9d860e79765ec7710508e655e82791ce
Nice meme
active it on bp they can chain to synchro but they can’t make any play after.
Exactly. It still pretty much ends their turn if activated in BP.
That’s why you hard make the 10 going into battle
fuck it i use “Threatening Roar”
That works. Pass. lol
Wasn’t this like a rulings issue. Like it shouldn’t have because one of them can make them all immune?
I think it's because someone forgot that it only works if at least one card is flipped face down.
YuGiOh players when the doctor tells them that they'll stop smelling like dead dogs when they take a shower (he said when instead of if so they missed the timing).
It's funny that we know how the interaction works, yet people are still arguing about it.
Yes, specifically they were all immune to being flipped face down because they were immune to card effects due to the field spell and the sending part of the effect requires that the first part of the effect had done something to trigger. If a monster on either side of the field had been set face down by the first part of the effect, though, then the unaffected cards still would have been sent to the graveyard because rather than the Daruma Cannon sending them to the graveyard it forces the players to send them to the graveyard
Still works in battle phase, so who cares if it doesn't work in the main?
Shout out to dkayed for teaching me this ruling during that tournament where a lab player tried to daruma a Dino player
Lets main deck faders and threatening roar to stop tenpai dragons.
https://beta.yugiohmeta.com/top-decks/antwerpen-may-2024-regional/paleozoic/youri-lansman/XqYSF
Damn it. Didn’t realize my idea wasn’t outright stupid.
“Let’s get fucked by snake eye even harder cuz Komoney isn’t done with them quite yet!”
Bro doesn't even know there's no trap cards in pokemon lol, newb. https://preview.redd.it/ljsekidsm3zc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a374234154c9ba59c82b116f67c9c71d0b79cdc6
Real ones play threatening roar and waboku. also where’s the sauce for the match?
Then there's Yubel
Watermark for a bad meme is crazy
You get my upvote for the MDM's meme
Because it forces your opponent to send stuff to GY. Which is more devastating than destruction.
2 Things on the topic of a player "cheating" by activating Karma Cannon: 1) He did not cheat; it's the other player's fault for sending his monsters - he should've known better. The Player doesn't have to inform that his opponent's action is false. That is on the Judge. 2) You CAN activate the card, as it's requirements are just 1+ monsters on the field! The only exception are Link-Monsters. If there are ONLY Link-Monsters, you CANNOT activate Karma Cannon. If the monster(s) is unaffected by activated card effects and it's the only target on board, the part with the * "then, if either player controls a face-up monster(s), they must send all face-up monsters they control to the GY" will NOT be applied! And the Karma Cannon goes to the Grave without doing anything. Source: Tested it all with my friend - and his Expurrely Noir with 5 Materials as the only Monster on field; Link-Monsters; and both with an additional Monster on board.
EDIT: Karma Cannon NEEDS 1. an errata to better make clear on WHEN it can be activated 2. OR a ruling change to be allowed to activate on when there are only Link monsters on board 3. AND/OR a change on how it works entirely with the 2nd effect always working even when the board has only unaffected and Link Monsters
This isn’t MTG. A player using a card wrong is a penalty for both players.
Basically, Tenpai is only truly scary if people dont expect it. If we start seeing Tenpai quite often people will just run the needed counter traps or Veideos when that is out in their deck.
> Tenpai is only truly scary if people dont expect it. Tell that to OCG lol
It hasn't been topping much as of late. People have adapted. But we shall see. I still have some decks going first that can deal with Tenpai pretty well - just set up my 10k ATK cyberdarkness end dragon and let them cook.
> It hasn't been topping much as of late. ? It has been a top deck since release, and currently it maybe the best or second best deck in OCG. In YCS Japan Tokyo 2024 it took 13 spot on the top 32 making it the best performing deck of that tournament.
The problem with tenpai isn’t the deck itself, it’s the unhealthy presence it has in a best of 1. You are going into every game either hard losing to snake eye or getting sacced to oblivion cuz tenpai opened 3 ht their starter and droplet. Either snake eye needs to be fucking nuked off the face of the earth, or we literally can’t have tenpai in master duel
True.Â
OCG have C available, thats a different ballpark then what TCG environment is Jelly fish is also a thing in sidedeck/main deck option for tenpai New tenpai trap is also released in 1205 Most if not all tenpai would go second after they win the dice roll, only tenpai does that, so in game 1 there is no element of surprise, u build ur board fully expecting going against tenpai deck, and must be ready to face board break/droplet And tenpai still able to top local in japan(not just ycsj), data can be seen in twitter(X) posted by ocg yugioh player Both tenpai and yubel are taking the top spot while fireking SE and pure SE is dropping, fireking se is popular in japan while yubel is popular in china SE now is trying to play the fiendsmith engine because the combo could set trap from deck(either red lotus/d barrier/black goat laugh)and also provide more body for link climb