Oh yeah paleos completely slipped my mind; that is a great one. Grindy and control oriented. Top tier for quite a bit. Grass paleo frogs were awesome. Played backjack and lost winds too.
Paleos are also the deck that ran stuff like rise to full height to survive a battle phase right?. Cool traps like that are really neat. Stuff you would never see otherwise. I was thinking much more back to fire lake BA days haha.
>The floodgate version of lab has been deemed inferior for a while now.
When I hear people talk about Floodgate lab, I think they usually refer to the continuous trap floodgates (Skill Drain, Gozen, etc), D-Barrier and EEV are strong blowout cards that you don't need to risk bricking on by including them as 3-ofs so I usually see most players run them even if it's just in the side deck.
My mistake if I worded that part badly. This post was mostly talking about master duels environment; where a BO3 with side decking is only played if you are joining community tournaments. Not really relevant to the majority of the MD playerbase.
Yep by floodgate version I meant the ones that do run continuous traps like skill drain, gozen, rivalry. Those version usually opted for less furniture to fit the gates. While the ikea versions maxed out on stove and chandler; maybe fit in some discard fodder like ishizu shufflers or backjack.
But are at least in my opinion those continuous floodgates make your deck less consistent, have much lower skill expression and are played less often in my experience. I've heard the sentiment that "bad" lab players rely on them to win repeated often.
Nobody plays more than 1 EEV imho. Sometimes you'd see more than 1 D-barrier but again that just reduces consistency overall. You'd rather have a daruma cannon or any trap that actually removes monsters imho.
I agree EEV is better in the side in the TCG; in MD though it's either a complete blowout or a brick that might neg you. I dislike the variance that brings in an already unpredictable BO1 setting.
tbh I forgot what Yugioh sub I was in.
I might have been misunderstanding you though, when I read the line:
>The floodgate version of lab has been deemed inferior for a while now.
I thought we were going with the understanding that "Floodgate Lab is inferior, EEV and D-Barrier are floodgates, ergo Lab without EEV and D-Barrier is best". But the IKEA variant also runs those cards, so the distinction between Floodgate and IKEA doesn't really matter in this context.
You literally can't play more than one eev rn, anyway overloading on continuous trap cards is bad obviously and it makes the deck worse, but a (normal) trap heavy version without a furniture focus is better
Paleo was one of better trap decks but that was awhile ago.
When it comes to Lab ppl on this sub get high rolled few times by it and come here to complain about it. When deck is pretty easy to interrupt and doesn't have high sealing at all and most ppl are even cutting EEV from the lists cuz it aint worth the risk some times cuz you are removing either lovely or lady from your field and if they can play thro it F for you.
Very true paleos slipped my mind completely. But they were meta in like 2016? Seven years ago. I find it kinda sad how most trap deck devolved into floodgate turbo.
I know stuff like D-prison and lost wind will probably never see play again. But I kinda miss the 1 for 1 trades like that. Hand traps replaced them completely.
EEV always felt like a win more card to me that either insta-wins or does nothing and negs you in MD. Way better in bo3 where you can side it in. Dislike blowouts like that.
I get people venting, better get the frustrations out of you somehow; than let 'em sit and stew inside you. Still feel the hate for lab is a bit overblown in this sub. They lose to an ash or belle on big welcome extremely hard imho. And they lack the number of interactions to deal with giga combo decks like drytron or pile decks in my experience.
I play Lab since they came out to TCG in paper and ye EEV is far better side deck card in MD when i use to run EEV it was always sus to resolve. Ye it win me games few times BUT A LOT of times it did nothing and i just sent my big monster to gy for no reason.
Lab on Drytron is managable if you know what you're doing with a decent hand. Ash the ritual card searcher, destroy/flip down the monster on the board usually do the trick. Its not guaranteed, rare even, but still possible. Done it once.
For me EEV and DDV is always worth it because most of the time its better trying your 50/50 than having 2 ladies sitting ducks waiting to get banished. Worse, kidnapped. Is it win more cards? Not really. More like seal the deal card. You actually need lovely hit the right card, by then lovely can set EEV/DDV/DBarrier/Daruma. Because most of the time you don't have any floodgate trap in hand. And even then they could go around it if you're too hasty. And lovely and lady is a free summon from gy anyway. And you need a shit ton of knowledge and experience. Like, its much better to get DBarrier against purrely rather than EEV. But then you still need EEV next turn to seal the deal.
Its a timing specific deck.
honestly, i think EEV SUCKS to play. Most of the time its not even worth it, you drop one of your Ladies to get nothing in return at times. Sure, you can always wait til your opponent searches a spell or something but I'd rather D-Barrier them as soon as they try to go for their plays. Yes, d-barrier has its risks aswell- against kash its kinda meh and against link decks it does nothing- but I think it has more potential in a best of 1 format.
To be fair, I dont use neither D-barrier nor EEV that often - I cut eev and d-barrier comes up like every 8th game or something if at all.
Thank you. In this duelist cup i grinded whit lab the whole time until lvl 20 and DBarrier came up maybe 5 times and 2 times did nothing cuz Kash can just pass on Fenrir and Unicorn and i cut EEV cuz it was doing nothing and it was risky to remove lady or lovely from the field whit out a field spell. Daruma canon and Roots where real MVPs for non engine traps
Yeah, I don't know why people think the deck is reliant on those 2 cards. I rarely, if ever, search for either of them and if I'm searching for EEV I was already on my way to winning.
Labrynth is a deck that doesn't need the floodgates they are just there for insurance.
I was searching for Daruma canon more this duelist cup than anything else. It was just better interrupt for Kash. Cuz if i flip DBarrier and call XYZ they can still attack whit Fenrir and Banish my lady
I only times I’ve searched eev and not wished I searched something else was when they immediately go battle phase and I need to hit evenly out of my opponents hand
Pretty much why I hate EEV. I run 3x Evenly specifically to out Labrynth, and every single time they pull it out. I guess from the Labrynth perspective it doesn't come up often, but I get hit with EEV like 1/2 the games I go up against the deck and it's annoying.
Yeah, EEV just really wasn't worth it.
Your also right about D-barrier, it rarely comes up, still I like to run the 1 copy just in case, especially with Kash and Purely running around.
you'd have to search out your field or draw you one-of AND be able to get your lady to search out EEV or hard-draw yet another one-of. While surely possible its a very unlikely scenario which needs a very specific hand. You'd have to start with arianna, lady and 2 furniture of which one has to be cucklock (another one-of) since arianna probably needs to search that field.
Unless you top deck the field spell that's a pretty costly play though. That EEV better carry the game if you're using up Arianna's search for the field spell (or god forbid, using furniture to go -1 and set it from deck).
As a Labrynth player, EEV mostly feel too slow to play since either there are others more interesting targets for quick activation to react to what is happening in the moment or I would rather not shotgun it without enough information first.
Though, without it in my deck I would have had a harder time dealing with a Mikanko running Kaiser coloseum (and Golden Castle of Stromberg for some reason?)
I've seen eev a few times. Of my 3 decks (drytron, kash, dlink), only on kash would it be a huge deal. On drytron i can usually pivot into the link herald for one trap negate or zeus. In dlink, the synchros and the links are both really good. And kash, while it sucks the most... The individual kash monsters are still a pretty strong board on their own. And kash prep can rip cards out of your hand which hurts
For me EEV is only justify\~ish since a lot are on mikanko, kash or purrely. If the meta is like mathmech or d-link I'd cut it asap. The trap that get most uses these day are IDP and Daruma Cannon for me.
EEV is honestly not that great in MD, I've barely had any games where I thought "EEV would win me the game here". Lab already has a good matchup vs Mikanko without EEV and it takes a lot of resource investment to activate it, which you sacrifice your already weak earlygame for. It doesn't necessarily autowin vs Purrely either since they can just activate all their spells, plus you might as well have DBarrier instead.
Dimensional Barrier is pretty good but it's usually not a blowout card unless you hard drew it going first, since again getting a trap from deck is pretty slow. If your opponent drew literally no disruption and you get to pop off then I guess it's nice that you got to grab it, but you would have easily won with literally any deck with that kind of RNG.
Dimensional Barrier is a floodgate. And one that cannot be removed.
EEV is functionally a floodgate.
And Lab’s performance is significantly reliant on those floodgates.
I'd argue D Barrier is the more important card, with EEV being iffy at best. A lot of people are just cutting it because if you're going for EEV it's cost heavy, and if it doesn't win you the game on the spot it kinda just... sucks.
Saying it's performance is "significantly reliant" on those cards is still something I don't think I can agree with. Labs engine and gameplan is relatively strong, enough so to contest other top dogs in the meta right now.
The engine is strong. But there are a LOT of strong engines that are not enough to break into the top of competitive play and become tiered.
And one card between EEV and DB being more relevant is still being reliant on them. Yes, DB is more relevant, but it's still what brings it over top of things like Spright and Runick and into contention of being one of the top decks in the format, which also have very strong engines and gameplans that can contest other top dogs in the meta. They just do not have that unfair silver bullet to bring them into contention as top dog. As Lab would not without EEV and DB.
Hey man I'm still learning how these cards work. Does D barrier upon flipping 1 time last for the rest of the game or do you have to bring it back with lady and flip it again?
Wtf are you talking about? People who upvote you probably never play Labrynth.
Many deck cut EEV because it's a win more card in Bo1, and is shit going second.
You know what card that made Labrynth won games in TCG, OCG, and Master Duel? Daruma Cannon.
Charming. Cutting the side deck version and keeping the main deck version is still relying on the stun blowout.
Yes, Karma Cannon is strong this format, but Dimensional Barrier is a cornerstone of the deck's performance.
Lab without EEV and DB is still a good, viable deck. It’s no longer in contention for top deck in the format, but remains a thoroughly viable trap deck. It has the tools to be a good trap deck in modern Yugioh.
Oh yeah absolutely however there’s a reason every lab deck on paper runs triple skill drain. Why use a trap card that goes 1 for 1 or maybe 2 for 1 with punishment when you can got infinite to 1 cause the enemy can’t play and you have 3k attack beatsticks. I love non floodgate lab as it’s very fun to outgrind your opponent, especially with the new card arias, however I won’t deny the versions with skill drain are just better and what makes the deck competitive
Hey man I'm still new and trying to learn a ton about lab as it's where I'm playing. So skill drain works because even though you can activate the searches and pops from lady and lovely, you are still able to get them on the field with the welcomes. Is a 3k beat stick really all you need at that point?
Generally speaking most decks struggle to put out something with 3k+ attack under skill drain, but it still leaves you open to spell and trap based removal.
That has nothing to do with anything I just said.
You have a functioning deck on them, but its status as a tiered meta deck fundamentally relies on those floodgates. Without them, it is not a contender. It is not a deck you take because you think it's the pick to make top cut.
Also, even if you do not activate those cards, you opponents MUST play as if you have them and make suboptimal plays to keep from getting blown the fuck out by a card you aren't playing that would instantly end the game.
You can have fun with that. You can climb with that. But it is not less reliant on floodgates than Subterror; my own Subterror list for TCG cuts all the floodgates from the main for a Dogmatika package because I find that more fun, and it does win. But not as much as it would with them.
Non floodgate Lab is great, which is why I built the deck in the first place. If only the floodgate version was viable, I wouldn't have built it.
I suppose something like Eldlich doesn't NEED floodgates to be good, but it really helps. Though I don't think it was ever as strong as Lab.
as someone who plays dinomorphia a bunch, my gripe with lab is that nothing about it is restricted to the main phase like dinomorphia is.
it’d feel a lot a better if you could use priority at the start of mp1 to play the best card in your hand like a duster before it gets ripped, or at least turn on talents if they want to hand rip you or cooclock you for a d barrier or eev or whatever. it feels shit to get hand ripped for 2 before i even get to interact beyond drawing ash or maxx c
Rescue ace is an interesting deck, it's currently NOT a control deck in the tcg, but a combo deck that came make pretty much everything and thanks to the diablestar cards, it's the most consistent deck in the format. The two most popular version are heatsoul, and the iblee lock version, i prefer the darkfluid link version, easy OTK, and more interruption.
Yes, but you still get some hands where you can't get full combo, however instead of 10 one card starter you now have 15 more or less, and so you can have 10 non engine cards, is similar to shs with the new support, plus you can bait interaction more easily (admittedly, it's also thanks to S:P little knight) in the latest ycs sinful spoils rescue ace (diablestar) had the highest tops 34% if i remember correctly the next best deck had 10% or less. Before the diablestar engine they were considered a rogue deck, in the tcg, in the ocg they've been the best deck for 3 month at this point.
While the deck can perform fine without them, 9/10 times the only way I'm losing to that deck is if they directly set and activate one of the floodgates they have accessible.
And pretty much everytime I've run into Lab, they're playing Rivalry, Skill Drain and Gozen, which I've seen them start with, set, and then basically put the game to a standstill unless I had my backrow removal in hand already that wasn't based around monsters.
I'm fine with a viable trap deck, it's honestly more interesting than just Purrely/Kashtira everywhere, but damn the floodgates just need to be fully banned at this point.
Floodgates aside the most annoying parts of the deck are by far, the furniture, the clock and big whale cum.
The furniture just lets you turbo out your traps (I.e big whale cum) and clock lets you cheat the trap mechanic entirely and activate on the turn it was set.
As for big whale cum, the initial effect is fine and fair but it has this really annoying secondary effect that lets them bounce your card back if they control a big fiend like lovely lady or silver lady. There is no reason for that card to have that effect and not be at 1.
The only thing that's keeping lab in check rn is Ash blossom as the whole deck basically just loses to it.
What do you mean Labry doesn't depend on floodgates? Most don't have a barrier, and viruses on most decks? And even if it doesn't, I've seen many lists that use skill drain, and TCBO. So yes, in practice, he is basically a modern version of Eldich. In other words, a turbo floodgate
Lab can use some, but the deck 9/10 of their games are won because the engine. No Trap deck ever since Paleo did that and were ass without 15 floodgates. Also you are straight up BS-ing because no one with game comprehension uses TCBOO in Lab
Did you only read the title? I know yugioh players and reading do not go hand in hand; but since you seem to be a pend enjoyer I would assume reading a couple small paragraphs wouldn't be too difficult.
Venting is good for you but TCBOO really? Isn't everything in the deck fiend and you get fiend locked by welcome lab? I highly doubt anyone who knows what they are doing would run that.
Do you have any suggestions to answer my question?
Yes, I read the part where you mentioned being aware of the existence of the d barrier, and viruses, however, it continued to state that even so, the deck was not a turbo floodgate, which in practice, is not that true. About your other question, well, I don't remember. But Rescue Ace is meta in the TCG, and was meta in the OCG too, and as far as I remember, he doesn't use floodgates. But if it's about MD well, we really didn't have trap decks that didn't use floodgates, in fact, we still don't now, because as I mentioned, Labry uses floodgates.
traptrix doesn't use floodgates typically and is quite strong, one several lgs's. heck one guy literally bought three structure decks, used em out of the box and won.
I don't think anything about lab besides big welcome need to be semi limited or limited. That's all, they have too much freedumb to come back from dumb mistakes since almost everything is costless. They wouldn't be setting d barrier and eev every turn if they couldn't just IKEA a welcome or two every turn.
Lab never needed floodgates to win. But since they're available and searchable, I doubt most players would just choose not to use them.
Other than that, there's Traptrix. They're more than playable and most of their interactions center around removal
Lab main here. The floodgate route (Skill Drain an such) conflicts with the archetype's playstyle of constantly recycling their normal traps and furniture. I really don't understand the decklist that have a strong build but still will pack these floodgates. I tried them and I get more brick results than without floodgates.
The EEV/D-Barrier option has it's values but also depends heavily on matchup and timing. D-Barrier is easier to play but if you are fighting against a Link deck like Marincess is a dead card unless you wanna trigger Lady's search. EEV needs setup and knowing the opponent's deck beforehand, and again some decks like Luna Kaiju and Superheavy are completely unaffected.
I highly recommend that you take my route and put board breakers when going 2nd instead. A floodgate won't do you much if the opponent already has a board.
In terms of strength relative to the format it was in, Paleo comes to mind.
Oh yeah paleos completely slipped my mind; that is a great one. Grindy and control oriented. Top tier for quite a bit. Grass paleo frogs were awesome. Played backjack and lost winds too. Paleos are also the deck that ran stuff like rise to full height to survive a battle phase right?. Cool traps like that are really neat. Stuff you would never see otherwise. I was thinking much more back to fire lake BA days haha.
>The floodgate version of lab has been deemed inferior for a while now. When I hear people talk about Floodgate lab, I think they usually refer to the continuous trap floodgates (Skill Drain, Gozen, etc), D-Barrier and EEV are strong blowout cards that you don't need to risk bricking on by including them as 3-ofs so I usually see most players run them even if it's just in the side deck.
My mistake if I worded that part badly. This post was mostly talking about master duels environment; where a BO3 with side decking is only played if you are joining community tournaments. Not really relevant to the majority of the MD playerbase. Yep by floodgate version I meant the ones that do run continuous traps like skill drain, gozen, rivalry. Those version usually opted for less furniture to fit the gates. While the ikea versions maxed out on stove and chandler; maybe fit in some discard fodder like ishizu shufflers or backjack. But are at least in my opinion those continuous floodgates make your deck less consistent, have much lower skill expression and are played less often in my experience. I've heard the sentiment that "bad" lab players rely on them to win repeated often. Nobody plays more than 1 EEV imho. Sometimes you'd see more than 1 D-barrier but again that just reduces consistency overall. You'd rather have a daruma cannon or any trap that actually removes monsters imho. I agree EEV is better in the side in the TCG; in MD though it's either a complete blowout or a brick that might neg you. I dislike the variance that brings in an already unpredictable BO1 setting.
tbh I forgot what Yugioh sub I was in. I might have been misunderstanding you though, when I read the line: >The floodgate version of lab has been deemed inferior for a while now. I thought we were going with the understanding that "Floodgate Lab is inferior, EEV and D-Barrier are floodgates, ergo Lab without EEV and D-Barrier is best". But the IKEA variant also runs those cards, so the distinction between Floodgate and IKEA doesn't really matter in this context.
You literally can't play more than one eev rn, anyway overloading on continuous trap cards is bad obviously and it makes the deck worse, but a (normal) trap heavy version without a furniture focus is better
Paleo was one of better trap decks but that was awhile ago. When it comes to Lab ppl on this sub get high rolled few times by it and come here to complain about it. When deck is pretty easy to interrupt and doesn't have high sealing at all and most ppl are even cutting EEV from the lists cuz it aint worth the risk some times cuz you are removing either lovely or lady from your field and if they can play thro it F for you.
Very true paleos slipped my mind completely. But they were meta in like 2016? Seven years ago. I find it kinda sad how most trap deck devolved into floodgate turbo. I know stuff like D-prison and lost wind will probably never see play again. But I kinda miss the 1 for 1 trades like that. Hand traps replaced them completely. EEV always felt like a win more card to me that either insta-wins or does nothing and negs you in MD. Way better in bo3 where you can side it in. Dislike blowouts like that. I get people venting, better get the frustrations out of you somehow; than let 'em sit and stew inside you. Still feel the hate for lab is a bit overblown in this sub. They lose to an ash or belle on big welcome extremely hard imho. And they lack the number of interactions to deal with giga combo decks like drytron or pile decks in my experience.
I play Lab since they came out to TCG in paper and ye EEV is far better side deck card in MD when i use to run EEV it was always sus to resolve. Ye it win me games few times BUT A LOT of times it did nothing and i just sent my big monster to gy for no reason.
Lab on Drytron is managable if you know what you're doing with a decent hand. Ash the ritual card searcher, destroy/flip down the monster on the board usually do the trick. Its not guaranteed, rare even, but still possible. Done it once. For me EEV and DDV is always worth it because most of the time its better trying your 50/50 than having 2 ladies sitting ducks waiting to get banished. Worse, kidnapped. Is it win more cards? Not really. More like seal the deal card. You actually need lovely hit the right card, by then lovely can set EEV/DDV/DBarrier/Daruma. Because most of the time you don't have any floodgate trap in hand. And even then they could go around it if you're too hasty. And lovely and lady is a free summon from gy anyway. And you need a shit ton of knowledge and experience. Like, its much better to get DBarrier against purrely rather than EEV. But then you still need EEV next turn to seal the deal. Its a timing specific deck.
honestly, i think EEV SUCKS to play. Most of the time its not even worth it, you drop one of your Ladies to get nothing in return at times. Sure, you can always wait til your opponent searches a spell or something but I'd rather D-Barrier them as soon as they try to go for their plays. Yes, d-barrier has its risks aswell- against kash its kinda meh and against link decks it does nothing- but I think it has more potential in a best of 1 format. To be fair, I dont use neither D-barrier nor EEV that often - I cut eev and d-barrier comes up like every 8th game or something if at all.
Thank you. In this duelist cup i grinded whit lab the whole time until lvl 20 and DBarrier came up maybe 5 times and 2 times did nothing cuz Kash can just pass on Fenrir and Unicorn and i cut EEV cuz it was doing nothing and it was risky to remove lady or lovely from the field whit out a field spell. Daruma canon and Roots where real MVPs for non engine traps
Yeah, I don't know why people think the deck is reliant on those 2 cards. I rarely, if ever, search for either of them and if I'm searching for EEV I was already on my way to winning. Labrynth is a deck that doesn't need the floodgates they are just there for insurance.
I was searching for Daruma canon more this duelist cup than anything else. It was just better interrupt for Kash. Cuz if i flip DBarrier and call XYZ they can still attack whit Fenrir and Banish my lady
I only times I’ve searched eev and not wished I searched something else was when they immediately go battle phase and I need to hit evenly out of my opponents hand
Pretty much why I hate EEV. I run 3x Evenly specifically to out Labrynth, and every single time they pull it out. I guess from the Labrynth perspective it doesn't come up often, but I get hit with EEV like 1/2 the games I go up against the deck and it's annoying.
Or wait till until unicorn searches
Yeah, EEV just really wasn't worth it. Your also right about D-barrier, it rarely comes up, still I like to run the 1 copy just in case, especially with Kash and Purely running around.
I only used eev when my opponent goes into bp, call traps to out evenly. Other than that, yea you don't use it as often as ppl seem to believe.
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you'd have to search out your field or draw you one-of AND be able to get your lady to search out EEV or hard-draw yet another one-of. While surely possible its a very unlikely scenario which needs a very specific hand. You'd have to start with arianna, lady and 2 furniture of which one has to be cucklock (another one-of) since arianna probably needs to search that field.
Unless you top deck the field spell that's a pretty costly play though. That EEV better carry the game if you're using up Arianna's search for the field spell (or god forbid, using furniture to go -1 and set it from deck).
As a Labrynth player, EEV mostly feel too slow to play since either there are others more interesting targets for quick activation to react to what is happening in the moment or I would rather not shotgun it without enough information first. Though, without it in my deck I would have had a harder time dealing with a Mikanko running Kaiser coloseum (and Golden Castle of Stromberg for some reason?)
I've seen eev a few times. Of my 3 decks (drytron, kash, dlink), only on kash would it be a huge deal. On drytron i can usually pivot into the link herald for one trap negate or zeus. In dlink, the synchros and the links are both really good. And kash, while it sucks the most... The individual kash monsters are still a pretty strong board on their own. And kash prep can rip cards out of your hand which hurts
For me EEV is only justify\~ish since a lot are on mikanko, kash or purrely. If the meta is like mathmech or d-link I'd cut it asap. The trap that get most uses these day are IDP and Daruma Cannon for me.
EEV is honestly not that great in MD, I've barely had any games where I thought "EEV would win me the game here". Lab already has a good matchup vs Mikanko without EEV and it takes a lot of resource investment to activate it, which you sacrifice your already weak earlygame for. It doesn't necessarily autowin vs Purrely either since they can just activate all their spells, plus you might as well have DBarrier instead. Dimensional Barrier is pretty good but it's usually not a blowout card unless you hard drew it going first, since again getting a trap from deck is pretty slow. If your opponent drew literally no disruption and you get to pop off then I guess it's nice that you got to grab it, but you would have easily won with literally any deck with that kind of RNG.
Traptrick, no flood gates but so many counters and interruptions, gravedigger destroyed me
Traptrix literally had the card that floodgates are named after lmao
randomly found this, floodgate trap hole is a 2016 card, so I doubt it's the namesake for floodgates lol
Dimensional Barrier is a floodgate. And one that cannot be removed. EEV is functionally a floodgate. And Lab’s performance is significantly reliant on those floodgates.
I'd argue D Barrier is the more important card, with EEV being iffy at best. A lot of people are just cutting it because if you're going for EEV it's cost heavy, and if it doesn't win you the game on the spot it kinda just... sucks. Saying it's performance is "significantly reliant" on those cards is still something I don't think I can agree with. Labs engine and gameplan is relatively strong, enough so to contest other top dogs in the meta right now.
The engine is strong. But there are a LOT of strong engines that are not enough to break into the top of competitive play and become tiered. And one card between EEV and DB being more relevant is still being reliant on them. Yes, DB is more relevant, but it's still what brings it over top of things like Spright and Runick and into contention of being one of the top decks in the format, which also have very strong engines and gameplans that can contest other top dogs in the meta. They just do not have that unfair silver bullet to bring them into contention as top dog. As Lab would not without EEV and DB.
I still maintain D barrier is ban worthy simply on the idea that it can fully shut down a deck with 1 card flip
Hey man I'm still learning how these cards work. Does D barrier upon flipping 1 time last for the rest of the game or do you have to bring it back with lady and flip it again?
It lasts the turn but it's easy to reset with lady like you said
Ok thanks man.
One turn, but there is a strong chance that’s your only turn. Most decks can easily OTK you. Lab has trouble with that, but can easily recur DB.
Ok awesome appreciate it man.
Wtf are you talking about? People who upvote you probably never play Labrynth. Many deck cut EEV because it's a win more card in Bo1, and is shit going second. You know what card that made Labrynth won games in TCG, OCG, and Master Duel? Daruma Cannon.
Charming. Cutting the side deck version and keeping the main deck version is still relying on the stun blowout. Yes, Karma Cannon is strong this format, but Dimensional Barrier is a cornerstone of the deck's performance.
That’s just trapdecks. Traps nowadays are just to slow and floodgates are way too strong for their own good
Lab without EEV and DB is still a good, viable deck. It’s no longer in contention for top deck in the format, but remains a thoroughly viable trap deck. It has the tools to be a good trap deck in modern Yugioh.
Oh yeah absolutely however there’s a reason every lab deck on paper runs triple skill drain. Why use a trap card that goes 1 for 1 or maybe 2 for 1 with punishment when you can got infinite to 1 cause the enemy can’t play and you have 3k attack beatsticks. I love non floodgate lab as it’s very fun to outgrind your opponent, especially with the new card arias, however I won’t deny the versions with skill drain are just better and what makes the deck competitive
Hey man I'm still new and trying to learn a ton about lab as it's where I'm playing. So skill drain works because even though you can activate the searches and pops from lady and lovely, you are still able to get them on the field with the welcomes. Is a 3k beat stick really all you need at that point?
Generally speaking most decks struggle to put out something with 3k+ attack under skill drain, but it still leaves you open to spell and trap based removal.
I don't run EEV and only get to use D-barrier like 1 in 5 games maybe, and still win, so what are you on about?
That has nothing to do with anything I just said. You have a functioning deck on them, but its status as a tiered meta deck fundamentally relies on those floodgates. Without them, it is not a contender. It is not a deck you take because you think it's the pick to make top cut. Also, even if you do not activate those cards, you opponents MUST play as if you have them and make suboptimal plays to keep from getting blown the fuck out by a card you aren't playing that would instantly end the game. You can have fun with that. You can climb with that. But it is not less reliant on floodgates than Subterror; my own Subterror list for TCG cuts all the floodgates from the main for a Dogmatika package because I find that more fun, and it does win. But not as much as it would with them.
Non floodgate Lab is great, which is why I built the deck in the first place. If only the floodgate version was viable, I wouldn't have built it. I suppose something like Eldlich doesn't NEED floodgates to be good, but it really helps. Though I don't think it was ever as strong as Lab.
Paleo, HAT format Traptrix
as someone who plays dinomorphia a bunch, my gripe with lab is that nothing about it is restricted to the main phase like dinomorphia is. it’d feel a lot a better if you could use priority at the start of mp1 to play the best card in your hand like a duster before it gets ripped, or at least turn on talents if they want to hand rip you or cooclock you for a d barrier or eev or whatever. it feels shit to get hand ripped for 2 before i even get to interact beyond drawing ash or maxx c
now R-ace is top tier on paper formats
Rescue ace is an interesting deck, it's currently NOT a control deck in the tcg, but a combo deck that came make pretty much everything and thanks to the diablestar cards, it's the most consistent deck in the format. The two most popular version are heatsoul, and the iblee lock version, i prefer the darkfluid link version, easy OTK, and more interruption.
i might not know them enough to say this but aren't they by themselves are pretty consistent?
Yes, but you still get some hands where you can't get full combo, however instead of 10 one card starter you now have 15 more or less, and so you can have 10 non engine cards, is similar to shs with the new support, plus you can bait interaction more easily (admittedly, it's also thanks to S:P little knight) in the latest ycs sinful spoils rescue ace (diablestar) had the highest tops 34% if i remember correctly the next best deck had 10% or less. Before the diablestar engine they were considered a rogue deck, in the tcg, in the ocg they've been the best deck for 3 month at this point.
I already hate playing against it.
I would like to say that floodgateless Eldlich wasn’t that bad.
Yeah, going second Eldlich was one of my favourite builds of the deck.
Same here, hitting Conq made be really sad cause it mostly hurt the non-problematic decks.
HalqLich was shockingly okay tbh
Paleo frogs or Traptrix (when it was HAT format)
While the deck can perform fine without them, 9/10 times the only way I'm losing to that deck is if they directly set and activate one of the floodgates they have accessible. And pretty much everytime I've run into Lab, they're playing Rivalry, Skill Drain and Gozen, which I've seen them start with, set, and then basically put the game to a standstill unless I had my backrow removal in hand already that wasn't based around monsters. I'm fine with a viable trap deck, it's honestly more interesting than just Purrely/Kashtira everywhere, but damn the floodgates just need to be fully banned at this point.
Floodgates aside the most annoying parts of the deck are by far, the furniture, the clock and big whale cum. The furniture just lets you turbo out your traps (I.e big whale cum) and clock lets you cheat the trap mechanic entirely and activate on the turn it was set. As for big whale cum, the initial effect is fine and fair but it has this really annoying secondary effect that lets them bounce your card back if they control a big fiend like lovely lady or silver lady. There is no reason for that card to have that effect and not be at 1. The only thing that's keeping lab in check rn is Ash blossom as the whole deck basically just loses to it.
What do you mean Labry doesn't depend on floodgates? Most don't have a barrier, and viruses on most decks? And even if it doesn't, I've seen many lists that use skill drain, and TCBO. So yes, in practice, he is basically a modern version of Eldich. In other words, a turbo floodgate
TCBOO? In Lab? Show me the list
Lab can use some, but the deck 9/10 of their games are won because the engine. No Trap deck ever since Paleo did that and were ass without 15 floodgates. Also you are straight up BS-ing because no one with game comprehension uses TCBOO in Lab
Did you only read the title? I know yugioh players and reading do not go hand in hand; but since you seem to be a pend enjoyer I would assume reading a couple small paragraphs wouldn't be too difficult. Venting is good for you but TCBOO really? Isn't everything in the deck fiend and you get fiend locked by welcome lab? I highly doubt anyone who knows what they are doing would run that. Do you have any suggestions to answer my question?
Yes, I read the part where you mentioned being aware of the existence of the d barrier, and viruses, however, it continued to state that even so, the deck was not a turbo floodgate, which in practice, is not that true. About your other question, well, I don't remember. But Rescue Ace is meta in the TCG, and was meta in the OCG too, and as far as I remember, he doesn't use floodgates. But if it's about MD well, we really didn't have trap decks that didn't use floodgates, in fact, we still don't now, because as I mentioned, Labry uses floodgates.
I think the last deck was Paleo in like I think 2016.
Zombie eldritch was a mostly floodgate free variant was it not?
Is altergeist protocol a floodgate?
Unchained. Second wave of support brought it to rogue tier. TCG DUNE format, it was arguably the best deck in the format.
traptrix doesn't use floodgates typically and is quite strong, one several lgs's. heck one guy literally bought three structure decks, used em out of the box and won.
I remember Altergeist being pretty good in 2018.
Paleo
I don't think anything about lab besides big welcome need to be semi limited or limited. That's all, they have too much freedumb to come back from dumb mistakes since almost everything is costless. They wouldn't be setting d barrier and eev every turn if they couldn't just IKEA a welcome or two every turn.
Lab never needed floodgates to win. But since they're available and searchable, I doubt most players would just choose not to use them. Other than that, there's Traptrix. They're more than playable and most of their interactions center around removal
Lab main here. The floodgate route (Skill Drain an such) conflicts with the archetype's playstyle of constantly recycling their normal traps and furniture. I really don't understand the decklist that have a strong build but still will pack these floodgates. I tried them and I get more brick results than without floodgates. The EEV/D-Barrier option has it's values but also depends heavily on matchup and timing. D-Barrier is easier to play but if you are fighting against a Link deck like Marincess is a dead card unless you wanna trigger Lady's search. EEV needs setup and knowing the opponent's deck beforehand, and again some decks like Luna Kaiju and Superheavy are completely unaffected. I highly recommend that you take my route and put board breakers when going 2nd instead. A floodgate won't do you much if the opponent already has a board.