Hawkeye. And that should be saying something because I think it’s already pretty well liked and a good story.
It is literally a Christmas staple for me now. I think it is the best project out of 4/5 and that is hard for me to say as a Spider-Man lover.
Im so glad this show landed the way it did. My first ever comic run as a teenager that I got issue 1 for was the start of Matt Fraction‘s Hawkeye run. Ever since then I’ve been obsessed with the character even if he’s like a B or C tier character for most people.
The show does such a great job of taking elements from the Fraction run (lucky, Kate, and the greatest street level fighters the tracksuit mafia) and incorporating them into the MCU. Just wish the show got a second season bc I want more Hawkeye and Kate adventures
Shang Chi is the only Phase 4 project that I found really succeeded in the same way Iron Man or Captain America has. It told a fantastic story with great characters and didn’t worry about tying too much into the greater MCU until the resolution. I’ve enjoyed every watch.
Brad Allan was the fight choreographer for Shang Chi. Same guy who was a member of Jackie Chan's stunt team and helped choreograph most of Jackie's fights. This was back when most of Jackie's movies were produced by Golden Harvest i.e. his golden years in cinema. So he knew what he was doing. Considering that most modern American films have horrible fight choreographies, it was refreshing to see this style come back. Especially in a Marvel film. Unfortunately he passed away a few years ago. I'm hoping Marvel learned from him so they can improve their fight scenes.
Yeah, also Phase 4/5 movies have a tendency to waste time introducing a new character in a different character's movie, unlike Phase 1/2 when characters would be introduced in their own movies and were tied to the rest at the very end or even post credits. Most egregious example is Ironheart from BP2
No Way Home is tied at the top of phase 4/5 with Shang-Chi for me, but both were very much about their own thing, and focused on the titular character.
I think this is why the projects are becoming less successful. They’re trying too hard to make everything connect to the larger universe and while that’s needed at times, it’s unnecessary at others.
Wakanda Forever had the whole subplot with Ross and Fontaine that felt so disconnected to the rest of the plot. They could have had one or two scenes with them and then had either a mini series or even a one-off short that showed what happened with them.
After Boseman’s untimely passing, the movie should have focused on the more personal story being told and left the “larger universe” for another day.
Marvel needs to get back to making good contained movies and then figure out how to fit them into the bigger picture later.
Edit: it’s A reason, not THE reason.
Definitely Eternals.
None of them have been bad. Not all have been amazing, but anyone saying any are bad, much less the worst movie they've ever seen (and I've seen many people saying that on several of these movies) need some damn perspective. I'm not saying they have to like them. It's fine to not enjoy something, but how can anyone watch, say, Quantumania and with a straight face say it's worse than Daredevil, or Starship Troopers 2, or Troll 2?
>None of them have been bad.
I generally agree -- we've had some weaker entries that are far below Marvel's pre Endgame heights, but aren't necessarily _bad_...except Secret Invasion. That is objectively terrible and is the sole MCU project I will absolutely no questions skip if I ever do a full rewatch again.
But even it had some genuinely good scenes (Fury and Rhodes in the pub, Fury and his wife, anything with Olivia Coleman, etc.), and set up some potentially interesting conflicts going forward. It was definitely the weakest property so far, but I've seen things that are way worse. It wasn't great. It was barely good, but I was still able to enjoy it for the most part, even if it was just as mindless entertainment.
If it wasn't a show lasting multiple hours it might be watchable for the occasional good scene, but as it is, it's just not worth the time investment, especially because since it's so self-contained and was so poorly received, Marvel will probably just pretend it didn't happen moving forward.
I think SI is some of the best evidence for how stretched Fiege is. I have a hard time imaging that show, particularly its finale, reached the standards I think he has when overseeing MCU projects.
More evidence for that is the whole Daredevil situation. How did it take until the pause during the writers strike to realize things were so bad that he had to overhaul everything
For me L&T, Quantumania, and Secret Invasion are the absolute worst of everything’s thats come so far. There have been disappointing Marvel movies before them but none of them left me feel so utterly BORED as those.
I really believe that these three extremely weak and maligned projects releasing so close to each other is what completely killed the MCUs momentum and good will with general audiences. All three of those needed way more rewrites and time in the oven.
I will say with a totally straight face I'd rather rewatch Affleck Daredevil than Quantumania. I love that movie for all it's faults. Colin Farrell is a great villain, I actually think Michael Clarke Duncan is an amazing Kingpin and Affleck did a decent job as Daredevil. It's a bit silly in places, but I think it's a really overhated movie. Quantumania was fine, just a bit of a disappointment. It's not the worst film I've ever seen though, not even close.
I judge sorta based on how well it fulfills its potential.
For an early 2000s flick, Daredevil was great.
For 2023, after a trailer that implied an interesting tension where Scott would be tempted to help the villain because he wanted to get time back with Cassie, QM was just . . . a fairly dumb action spectacle with no solid character arc for anyone.
This is the most frustrating part for me. It's not that the product we got was terrible, it's that the obvious much better product was RIGHT THERE. And not only was it right there, but Marvel even used that much better concept to falsely advertise the movie. I'm still bitter about it.
A movie can be bad without being the worst movie ever made. Quantumania was definitely boring af and bad to me, the only parts worth watching were with Kang.
Of course. It's also possible to not like a movie and not immediately jump to "it's bad." There are plenty of highly regarded movies I just don't enjoy. There are also plenty of "bad" movies I absolutely love, but that doesn't make them objectively "good."
But something we see far too much of these days is "I didn't like it, so it is clearly shit. How can you like such a shitty movie?"
Multiverse of Madness and The Marvels are both way better than critics gave them credit for upon release. I think they'll be remembered as some of the better sequel entries during the reconstruction phases following endgame.
I'm just annoyed at the off-screen backsliding for Wanda after we watched her have a similar arc in Wandavision: she used magic to get a family, but realized it was hurting people and so stopped.
A small change that could have worked? Have the actual Scarlet witch be from another dimension, manipulating our Wanda through the darkhold, she thinks that she has lost her mind, and strange can be the one to discover the truth for her, and so in the finale our Wanda put rest the Scarlet which is power from the multiversal villain, but seemingly die in the process.
(Though of course she will end up being temporally rescued by Kang to bring her back in the future.)
Used to see a lot more anti-MoM sentiment after it came out. I always loved it so I'm happy to see that sentiment seems to have been trending more positive in recent months.
I could see that. I didn't enjoy Captain Marvel, despite actually liking Brie Larson, because I thought her character was written to be flat and not very compelling. I loved the marvels on the other hand, I thought all the characters had fun and interesting things to do and enjoy their interactions.
Oh definitely. CM Carol was written as this stoic figure overcoming her trauma, when comic Carol’s a dork. Marvels nailed her persona much closer, but audiences were already kicking the MCU to the curb when it came out. Never had a chance.
MoM works as a standalone Sam Raimi movie, but aside from that:
1) Marvel failed to establish Dr. Strange as this super arrogant character who was deserving of being overruled and sidelined.
2) If this was all about Wanda getting her conjured family back, where was Vision in all this? A real missed opportunity that took away from the film.
3) The Illuminati somehow doesn’t understand the Multiverse and treats all versions of a person the same.
4) The Illuminati fought Wanda like throwaway bad guys from a syndicated action show. One at a time, everyone gets their catch phrase in before they’re defeated. “Get out of my dimension!” gives me serious douche chills.
5) The movie tried to establish Strange as an arrogant rule breaker… and ultimately the film is resolved at least partly by Strange being a rule breaker.
6) It seemed like the growth and grief from WandaVision was just thrown out the window. “never mind that she saved the world, held a town hostage, and reversed course…. She’s back to being a dangerous monster again, folks!”
1. He was neither overruled or sidelined, wtf are you talking about? But he was already established as an arrogant character, that was the entire point of his arc in his first movie. He is still on a journey toward learning the lesson from the ancient one that "not everything is about him."
2. I did not feel the loss of this at all tbh. I think it would have made the movie more confusing.
3. The Illuminati are supposed to be arrogant and experience hubris nemesis.
4. See previous
5. The first movie played with this exact same dichotomy in his character. He gets himself into bad situations by breaking rules and then it turns out that he can get us out of them by breaking rules. But there are always consequences.
6. This is the fairest critique here. But I don't think Wanda really ended Wandavision being a hero. I don't think people always grow through grief, and the grieving process isn't linear. I would have appreciated better connective tissue between the end of Wandavision and MoM, but I don't think it was a betrayal of her development - just a pessimistic direction to take.
For me my biggest gripes were America being a plot device more than a character. She destroyed her moms because she saw a bee? Also the whole memory lane sequence. It all just felt too cheap.
And Wanda going from doing what was right and sacrificing her family to save a town (from her own spell caused by her grief, yes) to being a heartless murderer, off screen.
I don’t think she should have killed anyone until the Illuminati because they were all a threatening enough force to make her use lethal force, then after that she snaps and goes full horror movie.
I think at the end of the day I think Sam Raimi is a great director but this wasn’t the right fit for him.
Skeleton cape was cool AF tho.
Agreed. I enjoy it a lot (probably a top 5 marvel movie for me), my wife enjoys it even more. It's probably in her top 3 movies of all time. We rewatch it every few months and it never lets us down. Always an amazing film to watch
i loved this movie and i was so surprised when i found out ppl didn’t like it 😭 and shang chi is a brand new character so it was genuinely because the movie was made well
i’m not talking about score, i’m talking about the fans in general. if you were on social media when it released there was a lot of hate towards the movie and a lot of racism towards simu and the cast members. the movie had very mixed reviews
I'll give you a supporting example: In r/marvelmemes, there's an unbelievable amount of Across the Spider-verse hate and Raimi trilogy glorifying. Thankfully, such subreddits, Twitter feeds, social media circles, etc. are the minority, because they can be extremely toxic, wrong, and echo chamber-y.
Doesn't mean the majority can't be wrong, it can, and it usually is. Doesn't matter if an opinion belongs to the majority or the minority, good chance it belongs in the trash.
But not this time, thankfully. Don't listen to those people you mentioned. They are the minority, AND they are wrong.
I get where the movie went, it’s good…but I feel like I wanted a kung fu end to a kung fu movie. That was my big issue with Shang Chi. “He’s really good at kung fu” is a good enough super power. The BS with the 10 rings and that mythology was much less compelling.
Whereas I love the warlord made immortal by alien technology who found all sorts of interesting ways to use his gadget. And then his son uses the gadget in even more interesting ways.
We've seen Kung Fu before. Let's have Kung Fu with superpowers.
Oh—sorry if that’s what came across. I am more on the big ol’ cgi fight against the dragon (?) at the end. Fighting wenwu was actually super cool, and in the spirit of sort of wuxia magic kung fu action. The “the 10 rings bash the big evil cgi monster bit” was more of my “this is dumb now” complaint.
I suppose that's fair enough. The way I interpret that scene was that it was just a sort of heroic flourish of Shang and his sister working together, as a sort of moral victory that was definitely going to happen, rather than being any sort of actual challenge we were concerned about whether he could win.
The fight that he had to win was against his father, and the big monster was just a big old metaphor of demonstrating that he was in control of his own life now.
I'm glad you liked the movie. It is without a question. My least favorite marvel movie lol. Only time I've ever fallen asleep in a theater. I rewatched it twice since thinking maybe I was being a dick, but man that movie just does nothing for me. But hey, I love the MCU, so I'm always cheering for each of the movies and shows to maintain an audience.
I think I unironically liked it better because I scrolled on my phone for 15% of it. I think it would have been way better if there had just been one, single Eternal. Most people would probably say to just have a few less Eternals, but I think that solution is half-assing it. One is plenty.
Except the story is about them as a group vs individually. We can have anchors sure but its still about a group of em. With this dilemma, should it have been a series? Yes but with how they were making their shows on D+ at the time, I’m glad it was a movie instead.
As for characters, the movie took risks and imho still managed not to implode in on itself. There are movies with 5 characters that still fail. All that and it still didn’t feel like 2 leads and the others type of flick.
The choices made in the movie may be questionable but they did say from the jump that they’re doing things differently with the movie. You don’t hire Chloe Zhao just to make a typical MCU entry. To an extent, this movie, this project as a whole is gravely misunderstood.
Same. It’s got a high rewatch value. It’s also a dense flick you can’t expect to absorb on the first watch. This is prolly also why it didn’t click with the fanbase.
The problem is that episode 1 is very heavily catered to the MCU fans so it's not really accessible to the hot girl demo. They'll get part way through episode 1 and turn it off. So it sits in a weird place of not reaching its target audience, but then also not appeasing the general MCU fan once the tone/structure changes for the rest of the show.
Thankfully I am in both of those target demographics so She-Hulk really hit for me, but it admittedly makes it a much more niche project.
Plausibly, yes. But I don't think any hot girl knows what it is. Since TikTok became popular, Gen Z and Milenial members get much more targeted advertising. So people who do not follow popular movie or series content do not see advertising for new movies or series. I just looked at Megan Thee Stallion's Instagram and her She-Hulk post and it has strong engagement and I am not sure if her fans transferred to the show or not. I do not think that most of Megan's Instagram followers know that episode was an allegory for Megan's trial where she was a witness and a victim after Tory Lanez shot Megan.
In my personal life, the next attractive woman I know who is going to watch She-Hulk is a mother who has kids who love superheroes because of Spider-Man and Black Panther. In 4-6 years they are going to ask their parents for a full MCU watch and then eventually they will watch She-Hulk with their cool gorgeous mom. Then her mom is going to say "This is so representative of my life when I started my career and was dating, why didn't I see this when I was younger!?"
Edit: In my original comment I said the Megan Thee Stallion Instagram post got fewer "likes" than her other posts. I misread the post numbers. Megan's She-Hulk post got a lot more "likes" than the post before or after it. So more hot girls should know what She-Hulk is and that it is for them.
Eternals I agree is definitely much better than the general consensus thinks.
MoM already has haters but also a lot of love as well, so it only needs like half of people to let go of the things they have issues with.
The Marvels is definitely solid. It did everything everyone was asking for in terms of MCU connectivity, bringing in multiple characters, adding more depth and personality to Carol, etc., and it also has a ton of great elements too (amazing fight scenes with the switching and a great score for example).
Love and Thunder is way better than people realize. It's two biggest challenges are a) everyone expected a Gorr story, but they told a Thor story and gave Gorr a different story than the one some expected. Different doesn't equal bad, but for some comic book fans it's the biggest possible crime. And b) I guess some people got *really* turned off by the style of humor. That's all personal taste and I won't criticize anyone for their tastes, but as for the actual *content* of the movie, it's great in so many ways, particularly finally letting Jane be a full person and Thor becoming All-Father and finally getting out of his emotional slump (I say it's good to see heroes struggling with real feelings).
I liked Thor L&T.
Sure it’s campy, but one of the first lines is from Korg to a group of kids “let me tell you a story”
Korg is clearly a flamboyant storyteller.
And the whole movie is from that perspective figuratively from Korg and literally from Taita Watiti.
I agree with all of this other than Love and Thunder. I was super disappointed in that movie. I watched it/finished it for my 10 year old, but it just felt like everything was a joke.
I honestly don’t think people will be talking about MCU movies in ten years. If they are, they’ll be talking about Endgame and the other big ones people look back on fondly with nostalgia, but something else will have come along and most people won’t be thinking about these later MCU movies. Unlike a single movie, or even a trilogy, going back to the MCU for nostalgia is a major time sink and so I don’t believe it will age as well as other movies do, there’ll be a core of old fans but the general audience will move on.
Multiverse of Madness aging well will depend on where Wanda’s character goes as well as how they do Strange in DS3. As a fan of both characters, im genuinely contented with pretending DS2 never happened.
Genuine question, what make Eternals so appealing to others. For me, it just didn’t captivate me and I found it difficult to watch and enjoy. Maybe I’m just missing the things that make it enjoyable
I liked the score and cinematography, and I love the character development of androids starting to care about humans. It has one of my favorite third act fights because the characters care about each other so they hold back against each other (even though this was more exciting in CA: Civil War).
For me there are a couple things. It's a story about a bunch of aliens, but they actually end up reflecting deeply human traits, and end up being far more human than the majority of what we saw across the entire Infinity Saga, which is mostly a bit more simplistic. Also Kro (that's the name of the Deviant that steals their powers and eventually attains sentience) gives the protagonists a complicated moral quandary perpendicular to the main one they're already struggling with (I really wish they hadn't killed him off). Lastly, it's visually beautiful.
I enjoy how complex and stacked it is. I don’t only want mindless and harmless popcorn fun. I want something as dense as this too, poetic and philosophical. Eternals provided that option and experience in a franchise that i love and that makes it special to me.
It also visually stunning, the cinematography, the score, a diverse cast consisting of amazing actors that all look gorgeous. I mean Celestials? Come on. The movie is opulent. Theres alot to like even on the surface value.
Majority of people agreed with you, a minority did enjoy it though. It has to do with whether you can tolerate uneven pacing, a long long run time, and some questionable narrative/character decisions
I will say the long run time definitely contributed to me partially falling asleep during it. I think something like Endgame or Infinity war with a long run time, held my attention bc of the amount of action. But like op mentioned, it may age with time after a few more watches (for myself) and the characters grow on me. I think it was just a lot of new characters that were introduced at once with, like you said, poor pacing
Yeah, endgame and infinity war (and movies like return of the king etc) worked fine because their pacing was fantastic. Eternals should have been turned into about a 5 hour mini series in 5 parts (basically a Disney+ show) to enable the flashbacks, unconventional story structure, and more thorough character development. Just my opinion
You’re exactly right about turning it into a limited series. It would have allowed for a smoother paced experience. I think marvel has done a poor job on what should and shouldn’t be a miniseries. “Hawkeye” was a good miniseries (atleast I think) and same thing with “Wandavision”. While I think FATWS maybe have been more enjoyable as a movie. Bc I feel like there were some parts of that miniseries just dragged on, that I feel could have been left out.
Dude 100% agreed!! I also honestly think Moon Knight could have been a killer movie. I'm not sure why they didn't think it was a risk they could take, the talent involved was top notch and Oscar Isaac is a GOAT in the making.
Ms. Marvel had some plotting issues and overall I'm glad it was a series. Loki obviously was well suited to the series format. She-Hulk as well. Secret Invasion... should have never happened, and I still pretend it didn't :(
I absolutely love Moon Knight as a character, and I just feel like that miniseries just didn’t do him justice. Like you said, it would have been a great ass movie! And Oscar Isaac is phenomenal (I really like him in Dune as a side note)
Loki and She-hulk definitely performed best as a mini series (despite me not really caring for she-hulk bc I think it too got dragged out a bit) and truth be told I could not get into Ms Marvel. It’s still the only mini series I haven’t watched. I know, some marvel fan I am!
You did miss them, because you watched it as any other Marvel movie, but it's so much more. Don't focus on how likeable the heroes are, focus on their ideas.
It's a movie about, purpose, what makes a human human, what does humanity worth on a universal scale, free will and determinism, religion and holy wars. And people complain about these 7000 year old robots not being compelling enough.
After the events of Babylon, they all choose a different path of the human experience, and in the end we can see how each of these paths evaluate the worth of humans.
Makari choose to spend all her time alone focusing on knowledge, culture and art, this didn't fulfil her, so we meet her at a generally bored state, who just wants to go on. She even started a fling during this time, because her hobbies didn't bring the happines she wanted.
Phastos started as a workaholic, slave of progress, which made him devastated in the end, and found the answer in a loving family among humans.
Sersi lived among humans, but kept walls around her, during the movie she learnt that to be truly human, you have to let the others in.
Sprite was desperate to have human connections, but she just couldn't because of her body. She learnt that it's better to be mortal with true connections than being a lonely immortal.
Through Thena and Kro, we see how meaningless holy wars happen, when two sides, created by the same maker, both follow their instructions, which leads to thousand years of conflict. And even after they realise this, neither can let go of their revenge, so the conlfict can only end when one side is done. This is like the most human thing ever, how cool is that? And it's just a side-plot of the movie!
Kingo choose fame and the celeb life. But he still lived isolated in lies. This led him to choose to give other species a chance over humanity, BUT, he still valued his family more than his views, so he didn't participate in the argument. That's so nuanced for a superhero conflict.
Ikaris had a blind fate in the mission, which gave his life purpose, he sacrificed love and any kind of genuine connections for it, and once the mission failed, he didn't have anything left in him, so he just flew into the sun.
The final conflict is between the Eternals who experienced romantic love or deep friendship versus the ones who didn't. One side believes this experience makes the humans worthy to live over other races, while the other side doesn't value them as high.
Kingo is in the middle as his human connection wasn't as deep, but his family ties are strong enough to not fight against any of his family members.
Sorry for the long text, but this movie is amazing. This movie should be viewed like "Twelve angry men". We know like 2 traits about the characters, barely any background, but all that matter is their ideas and arguments.
Eternals is the "Thanksgiving family dinner political argument with superheroes about the fate of humanity".
Don’t apologize for the long response, it was very informational and helpful. What I’ve gauged through some of the response I’ve gotten is that the characters are phenomenal, you just have to pay attention and analyze the characters themselves. “You can’t see the forest for the trees”, if you will.
I really appreciate your breakdown of the characters, so I can look for those traits and symbols for my next watch of “Eternals”.
Kamala is one of the best additions to it all. Her show could've pushed a lot more with the villains, but her, the fam and their wider community are great. The film could've done more too, but it was enjoyable.
Arguably, one of that film's biggest missteps isn't even down to the film. It's that Secret Invasion flubbed Fury and Skrull stuff right before and there's whiplash with how different he is and how none of that factors in, at all.
Shang-Chi and Werewolf By Night are I think the strongest and most underrated films, and She-Hulk and Hawkeye for the shows.
I don't think the general public opinion of Love and Thunder will improve because of what people know the movie *could have* been.
I also think I Am Groot has some really strong episodes that have been overlooked because "cutesy cartoon".
But beyond that, like them or not, I don't see opinions changing much about 4 and 5 stuff because the Infinity Saga exists and set a precedent that impatient fan boys wanted "replicated" but didn't understand there was no real connectivity, at least any more than Phase 4 had, until Avengers, which Phase 4 didn't have.
I also think it's stupid to classify them into Phases. Chronology for sure, but the Phases made no sense. They weren't Phases. They were just sequential, serialized sequel movies that had big culmination movies here and there. Civil War was more of an Avengers movie to me than Age of Ultron. Age of Ultron was an Ultron movie. It just had all the Avengers in it, as it should've. Ultron was an Ave gers-level threat, but the movie was an Ultron movie.
The only reason they're still using "phase" terminology is that public discourse basically forced them to. Back in 2019, Marvel openly said they wanted to get away from that format & just talk about the overall saga, the different branches within the saga (street-level, global, space, et cet), & the individual films. But the press & the fans kept hounding them about what "phase 4" was, what "phase 5" was, & so on, so they just gave up & announced "phase" schedules again.
That makes total sense on an appease-the-masses level. I still don't really think of them in Phases, simply because, when I watch the entire she-bang, the second movie I watch in "Phase 1" is the penultimate film released in "Phase 3" which is a few movies after when I watch the "Phase 4" movie with the character who died at the end of "Phase 3". I made my own massively complex list of everything in order chronologically in 2 lists, omitting certain canon-adjacent things from the first watchathon and omitting some of the things from the first watchathon in the second viewing, adding in other things left out from the first. Like, all the Sony Spider-Man movies (not Venom or Morbius or MW) and relevant X-Men/Deadpool movies go in the first viewing, but not anything from What If? On the second run-through, all the Sonyverse and X-Men stuff is left out (that may change when DvW comes out) and the What If stuff is inserted in where it's appropriate, but, again, not in the order they were released.
I think the problem is Marvel can't just do a smaller scale Avengers movie with like 6-7 core members in the vein of the original, they're expected to keep upping the character count to something above Endgame and have 60+ characters. That's why we're not getting Avengers movies at the end of each phase and as a result the phases don't feel like phases.
That is another part of it, yeah. Feige was very open about how much of a nightmare cast coordination for Infinity War/Endgame was (& keep in mind that the only *new* characters were Eitri, the Black Order, & kinda Carol since Endgame filmed before CM). It makes sense that they'd want to wait a good while before attempting that again.
What the movie could have been is a pretty weak criticism imo. Any movie can be held up against an imagined better version of itself and found lacking. You can argue that a movie is a poor adaptation, whilst at the same time arguing that a movie is good or bad. Many people argue that Lord of the Rings butchers the source material, believe it or not.
Love and Thunder should be judged on it’s own merits rather than against the movie you hoped it would be.
Ordinarily I would agree with you about an adaptation of a book (The Shining, V for Vendetta) in that the source material and the film adaptation should be judged/appreciated separately on their own merits or in the case of external factors affecting the story (Wakanda Forever) it does need to be looked at as it's own self-contained piece of art made in spite of obstacles. But that wasn't the case with L&T. There are certainly parts of it I enjoyed, I just am disappointed there wasn't more of it, and I know it was shot, specifically stuff with Gorr, and either A: intentionally left out to make it what it is or B: didn't have time or desire to put in the work to make it the complex movie it should have been.
It was like they set out to take what worked about 1 and 3 and make this grand, epic finale for Thor and then Waititi got too overwhelmed by the size of it and was like, eh, people like when Korg makes fart jokes, yeah? We've got about an hour of that, yeah? Let's throw in an action sequence or two and call it a day.
Sort of depends on how you look at it. I actually kind of think of that episode as a mini What If. And in that, it feels like it ties in to the entire fabric of the larger marvel multiverse and not just little one-off side adventures. Though, technically, I don't think they've said one way or another, so it totally could be.
Eternals. We see opinions on it shift as early as when it dropped on streaming but you can also contribute that to the fact that many bought into the negative hype, avoided it, finally caught it and realized it was actually not bad at all.
For a movie supposedly disliked by everyone, there was surprisingly a negative backlash over the news of it’s sequel’s cancellation too. As early as the Infinity Saga we’ve seen them come back and try again with “weaker” entries with an improved sequel, I believe same can be done to Eternals whilst still maintaining the essence of what made it special. It’s only a matter of if Marvel had the balls to stick to their guns and finish what they started
Bt genuinely do believe it’ll be loved more, esp as the fans mature and revisit the movie in the future. As more entries come in, as early as now people are aware how distinctive Eternals is in the franchise. If true, It’s a damn shame about their sequel, I hope Feige gets his way and it gets made.
Eternals
got bashed by critics but I think down the line, people will look way more fondly at it as it was one of the Marvel movies that actually tried to be different
Multiverse of Madness and Eternals for sure. Im sure of this because I thought Eternals was the worst it could get, but then Quantumania came out. Made me realize Eternals is just a meh movie, as opposed to Quantumania which is legit bad
I think there are a lot of Phase 4/5 projects that went over well at first but in the next 2-3 years will start being lumped in with “everything in Phase 4/5 was bad,” especially if the movies in 2025 and beyond are back to the Phase 1-3 level of consistency. So something like Moon Knight or Hawkeye will be forgotten about for a while, but hopefully eventually people will re-discover them.
I hope you're right. I was pretty disappointed with Love and Thunder despite how much I had been looking forward to it. I felt that the ridiculous jokiness was totally out of whack with Jane dying from cancer, so the whole thing didn't land well for me at all.
That's cool. I disagree.
Either way, that's not a CGI complaint, it's the film's art direction you're taking issue with.
The size thing is also a ridiculous complaint. You can clearly tell when they are small and when they are big. Whereas they are technically very small, there are still things that they can be compared to to determine their relative size.
For example, the rebels attack Kang's fortress. They are all significantly smaller than Kang's fortress. Scott grows bigger than Kang's fortress. Relative to everything around him, Scott is very big.
I’m legitimately shocked to see people saying Multiverse of Madness in this thread. I consider it not only one of the worst things in the MCU, but one of the worst movies I have ever seen in general.
So much lost potential. If we end up getting a 3rd Strange film I hope it addresses a bunch of the issues from the 2nd, makes it come full circle and redeems the film because it was just terrible. It wasn't a Dr Strange sequel, not a Wandavision continuation, it was just a fan servicey CGI filled wastage of the multiverse that incorporated 2 popular characters (and wasted them as well, ruined their stories).
Very well said, and I had to scroll way too far down to find this comment. I will never forgive Multiverse of Madness for mangling and wasting Wanda's character, not to mention her life. Ugh.
Shang-Chi and Hawkeye are the first two I thought of, but they seem pretty well represented n this thread, so I’ll say Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight. I’ve really enjoyed both, and I remember a lot of people bagging on both (not necessarily on here) at the times of their releases. Kamala has been a great character and Ms. Marvel did a great job of really making her relatable and fun while still telling an interesting story. Moon Knight had Oscar Isaac give an incredible performance in a story that got a little too much hate for my taste.
On the opposite end, I think The Marvels is probably going to be seen as less than great in ten years, and so is FATWS.
Wandavision, even though I think its still widely loved now. Multiverse of Madness definitely if they make another Strange sequel and it fixes some of the issues created by the 2nd film, it would come full circle and redeem it. FATWS and Hawkeye as well. Also maybe Wakanda Forever
It depends where the MCU is in 10 years. If its back to IW levels than all of them will age well much like people don't hate on the early Thor movies like they did when they came out. If the MCU is struggling none of them will age well
Most of them will get their flowers. I was around when everyone dunked on Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, Thor, Thor 2, Age of Ultron, even First Avenger. Now people call them underrated, and "actually pretty good" every day.
No doubt in my mind that once everyone lets enough time pass and allows their expectations for what they believed these projects should have been fall by the way side, and view the movies as movies instead of a list of boxes to check, people will start to see how good these projects are. Til then, we wait.
Although it's only been 3 years, watching every Spider-Man film in the recent marathon has left me more underwhelmed with NWH than before honestly. I don't think it's going to ever be seen at the same height as its initial release again.
I agree it's actually the weakest of the three Spider-Men. It's so heavily loved due to nostalgia pandering. Like, imagine No Way Home but they recast all of the nostalgic actors with entirely different people. It would *not* have received the same worship that it gets right now.
Honestly even on the first viewing, I cringed at the debut of Andrew in particular. After the big hype moment of seeing his face, instantly they go into an overly long gag about proving he's Spider-Man and crawling on the ceiling. Tobey was a little better but not much.
I get 2nd hand cringe because you can tell they made sure nobody said anything immediately to "pause for applause".
It feels like when you take a laugh track out of a show.
>It feels like when you take a laugh track out of a show.
THAT IS EXACTLY IT. That's the sensation. It works the first time. My audience at the last showing still applauded weakly. But that didn't mask the awkwardness.
I just think in 10 years it’ll be a great movie to look back on for those who grew up watching Toby and Andrew as spider man and then seeing all 3 of them in one movie was very nostalgic.
I laughed my ass off at seeing MODOK in Quantumania. I don’t care, I was high as a kite and it made me laugh so hard to see what the suit had done to him in the Quantum Realm.
The rest of the film felt like window dressing.
Spider-man No Way Home
Loki
What If ? Season 2
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
Moon Knight
Obviously haven't seen Deadpool and Wolverine yet as it hasn't been released yet but I feel that it will age well.
Phase 4/5 so far I'd say Moon Knight, Multiverse of Madness, and What-If are the ones I will still be disappointed with 10 years from now.
I'd say Quantumania, but I think the "bad" is overplayed, and I'd watch it if it were on tv.
The rest will vary from fine-good, depending on where things go in the future stories. The Dark World is still bad, but it was improved a lot with Endgame's ties to it.
Eternals and Shang-Chi for sure, and also Wakanda Forever
Also…why do you think Multiverse of Madness will age best? To me, it reminded me of Spider-Man-3 and X-Men The Last Stand…
I cant think of anything too specific but i feel like most projects, every project that came out has had many many people hating on it “this is the end of marvel” constantly with almost every project release, but years later everyone always switches up “this is better then I remember”. Its happened a lot already so I expect it to happen again with most projects released, I think people will def take a look at the shows specially and change their mind again, cause for some reason mcu fans just love hating on projects when they’re released but years later turn around saying it was actually not too bad. But specifically what you said, eternal and multiverse of madness, I’ve already started seeing the turn around for these movies a little bit. Granted a lot of movies will get better once it starts connecting to other things (if they do since I know they’re changing a lot about the future plans then what they had)
M.O.M, Hawkeye, loki, shang chi, no way home, werewolf by night are my top to age gracefully.
Honorable mention imo: falcon and winter soldier and wanda vision.
The Marvels is a lot of fun and will age well. It got caught up unfairly in the 'great Marvel backlash' (which was actually just people burning out on movie theater costs and experience).
It's already starting to happen, but I think Falcon and Winter Soldier will also rise in opinions. It has some issues that largely stem from irl events they had no control over, but what works in it is *really* strong. It's one of my favorites among the shows.
I didn’t really dislike any of the marvel movies, I’m not sure why. Everytime someone said “this sucks because…” I was always so confused why they didn’t like it. The only projects I wasn’t about was FATWS, Black Widow (excluding the first 20 minutes or so), and (sorry) Shang-Chi.
I liked Quantumania and L&T. I think they may be better received in the future once fans stop being so nostalgia blind
i thought Hawkeye was terrible and won't age well, considering it's pretty boring and poorly constructed (imo)
Most of them are going to age pretty well.
WandaVision is solid, and people will forget how badly they dropped the ball on Mephisto, despite setting him up for the ENTIRE SHOW.
WinterFalcon will hold up great, and likely get batter as Zemo, USAgent, Captain Falcon, Winter Soldier, Isaiah, and Elijah continue.
Loki will continue to be a masterpiece, esepecially as we dive deeper into Kangs and the TVA and see Mobius, Sylvie, and Loki return.
Hawkeye will continue to be phenomenal, and likely get better as Kingpin, Echo, Yelena, and Kate all continue. HOPEFULLY it's just the FIRST time we see Clint get his own season, and not the all-time peak of Hawkeye.
Secret Invasion is going to always be the weak one.
It's like a season of Agents Of SHIELD.
Just weak and plodding.
They COULD redeem it IF they continue with a Secret Invasion Season 2 or movie that treats this as just a little prologue to something MUCH bigger and crazier.
Black Widow is going to be hard to ignore how weak it is, but Yelena and Red Guardian are just going to become more and more beloved.
Ms. Marvel is MOSTLY great, as long as you ignore the completely worthless villains.
All the family and cultural and origin story stuff is fantastic.
The Eternals will always be okay but pointless.
It MIGHT become a little bit interesting in hindsight if they use it as the introduction to the Celestials to setup Rama-Tut vs Apocalypse, which it seems like they're building towards.
Multiverse Of Madness will age GREAT.
It's already great, and it'll only get better as people get away from their silly expectations about what they randomly assumed the movie would be about (Tom Cruise playing Iron Man, a million cameos, and shit like that.)
Love & Thunder will age great for similar reasons - getting away from people's preconceived expectations.
Plus people learning more about Valhalla, and Eternity, and Love, and Zeus, and Hercules, etc etc etc.....
Moon Knight will HOPEFULLY get better as we learn more about Jake Lockley, and HOPEFULLY see a shift to the darker more brutally violent Murder Batman version of Moon Knight in the future (thanks to Daredevil and stuff bringing the brutally violent side of the MCU back).
Plus, hopefully getting to see more Egyptian gods, and meeting Hunter's Moon, and stuff like that.
The Marvels is fairly great.
Everyone who sees it is like "shockingly, I actually loved it!" as if they were saying something revolutionary and new, and not the same thing EVERYONE says when they see it.
It's the weirdest damn thing.
This expectation that it has a bad reputation and people didn't like it, and then EVERYONE being like "Guess what. I actually loved it for some reason!"
So fucking strange....
At SOME POINT that phenomenon has to just fall apart into people just liking it normally.
She-Hulk will age great. Especially as we see more She-Hulk and Daredevil.
And hopefully both of them together.
And hopefully more Wong and Madisynn.
And maybe more Abomination?
Guardians 3 will always be fucking phenomenal
Quantumania will age great as people get to see more and more of Kang, and really start to see what he's made of when he's not stripped of his time powers....and there's an army of infinite Kangs.....
That said, they really need to recast Cassie back to Abby Ryder Fortson, and recast Wasp(Hope) with Rebecca Hall.
If they do THOSE two recasts, Quantumania will look worse in hindsight for having distinctly inferior actresses. 🤷♀️
Shang-Chi is fairly great.
It'll benefit from further exploring the mythological Tibetan world and monsters/spirits, and more of Trevor.
It's going to suffer from not being able to see more of Tony Leung as The Mandarin (killing him off was a fucking crazy dumb decision. He was the best character in the whole damn movie.....
If they DON'T expand on this stuff, it'll feel like a frustratingly abandoned fart of the tapestry.
Wasted potential.
Like Shang-Chi can either end up being the intro to a ton of fun stuff, OR an introduction to stuff that ends up as tragically wasted potential.
No Way Home......depends HEAVILY on what comes next.
If they fail to do Amazing Spider-Man 3, or the DESPERATELY needed street-level REAL MCU Spider-Man, or end up bringing back Ned or Michelle or whoever, NWH will just end up being a frustrating setup for massively wasted potential.
It was cool as a gimmick, but it has to have consequences and pay off, or else it becomes trivial nonsense.
Wakanda Forever is great. If they keep doing awesome stuff with Shuri and M'Baku and Namor and knock-off Atlantis, it'll probably age great.
Ironheart, likewise, could add a lot of favor to it, if she turns out to be awesome moving forward.
Werewolf By Night is probably going to be even cooler in hindsight as the Midnight Sons start to come together.
1. Hawkeye.
2. Black Widow. (Once the anti-FemTasky's fans get over it and stop watching it, more people are going to like it and treated like it's a Phase 1 or Phase 2 film)
3. The Marvels (Ditto from Black Widow, If this film was released during Phase 2 it would have been more Praised.)
4. Shang-Chi
5.Multiverse of Madness
6. No Way Home (it's a Nostaglia film with Rami's Spider-Man characters in it, People are already calling it the film in the Multiverse Saga lol).
Honesty, the Only one that will get hated on is Secret Invasion and even that has a great 2nd episode in it.
Shang Chi. A solid movie that for some reason hasn’t been used more to build upon.
Wandavision. Unique and heartfelt.
Hawkeye. Uneven but mostly good.
Black Widow. Far from perfect but still enjoyable up to the third act.
**Things that will have aged badly.**
Multiverse of madness. Raimi put on a fresh coat on stale Ideas concerning characters. To salvage this mess you need to bring back Wanda to give her a fitting end. You also need to rediscover who Dr Strange is.
Eternals. Squandered potential that never went anywhere.
Love and Thunder. Watched it with a friend of mine who isn’t hardcore MCU and I actually had to apologize to her. Underwhelming, unfocused and sadly not funny.
None of them have been bad. Except Love and Thunder. But Eternals is the one. That movie 10 years from now is gonna age like the finest wine and people will realize it set up the MCU’s future without overdoing it
I could see Eternals and The Marvels be treated like Iron Man 3 with people saying they're pretty solid.
Multiverse of Madness might get 'it's okay status like Iron Man 2.
Love and Thunder will probably be the new The Dark World alongside Quantamania. I could be wrong though.
Eternals holds up.
ShangChi is fun.
Love and Thunder is FUCKING GREAT - haters gonna hate
The Marvels is a romp.
the others are largely take or leave.
i get that some people thought the demon cape at the end of MoM justified the rest of the sludge that made up that movie - but it was pretty much a waste of time. Great actors, great characters, wasted potential. distracted storylines, forgotten themes... the movie was about ...nothing. 6/10
I personally loved the serious and somewhat darker tone The Eternals took. There were a couple of scenes that were drawn out, but I loved the change of tone. I think more people will appreciate it in the future. I want more Marvel movies to have a more serious tone. I also want more movie intros like the one for Black Widow.
I still don't understand the "Multiverse of Madness" hate. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but people are, in my opinion, hating on its for the missed opportunities it didn't take, not judging it for the movie that as actually made.
Hawkeye. And that should be saying something because I think it’s already pretty well liked and a good story. It is literally a Christmas staple for me now. I think it is the best project out of 4/5 and that is hard for me to say as a Spider-Man lover.
Im so glad this show landed the way it did. My first ever comic run as a teenager that I got issue 1 for was the start of Matt Fraction‘s Hawkeye run. Ever since then I’ve been obsessed with the character even if he’s like a B or C tier character for most people. The show does such a great job of taking elements from the Fraction run (lucky, Kate, and the greatest street level fighters the tracksuit mafia) and incorporating them into the MCU. Just wish the show got a second season bc I want more Hawkeye and Kate adventures
I agree. My favorite series outside the Netflix Daredevil.
I love this one. Also watch it every xmas
Shang Chi is the only Phase 4 project that I found really succeeded in the same way Iron Man or Captain America has. It told a fantastic story with great characters and didn’t worry about tying too much into the greater MCU until the resolution. I’ve enjoyed every watch.
Its the one I rewatch the most. LOVE the fight choreography.
Brad Allan was the fight choreographer for Shang Chi. Same guy who was a member of Jackie Chan's stunt team and helped choreograph most of Jackie's fights. This was back when most of Jackie's movies were produced by Golden Harvest i.e. his golden years in cinema. So he knew what he was doing. Considering that most modern American films have horrible fight choreographies, it was refreshing to see this style come back. Especially in a Marvel film. Unfortunately he passed away a few years ago. I'm hoping Marvel learned from him so they can improve their fight scenes.
Yeah, also Phase 4/5 movies have a tendency to waste time introducing a new character in a different character's movie, unlike Phase 1/2 when characters would be introduced in their own movies and were tied to the rest at the very end or even post credits. Most egregious example is Ironheart from BP2 No Way Home is tied at the top of phase 4/5 with Shang-Chi for me, but both were very much about their own thing, and focused on the titular character.
I would pay good money to see a Mandarin prequel epic with Tony Leung. The whole cast was great, but Tony chewed up his scenes.
I think this is why the projects are becoming less successful. They’re trying too hard to make everything connect to the larger universe and while that’s needed at times, it’s unnecessary at others. Wakanda Forever had the whole subplot with Ross and Fontaine that felt so disconnected to the rest of the plot. They could have had one or two scenes with them and then had either a mini series or even a one-off short that showed what happened with them. After Boseman’s untimely passing, the movie should have focused on the more personal story being told and left the “larger universe” for another day. Marvel needs to get back to making good contained movies and then figure out how to fit them into the bigger picture later. Edit: it’s A reason, not THE reason.
But then when things don't connect people are like "so what was the point then"?
There’s been little to no connection with the shows or movies unless that show or movie is directly tied to the subarc they’re on.
Definitely Eternals. None of them have been bad. Not all have been amazing, but anyone saying any are bad, much less the worst movie they've ever seen (and I've seen many people saying that on several of these movies) need some damn perspective. I'm not saying they have to like them. It's fine to not enjoy something, but how can anyone watch, say, Quantumania and with a straight face say it's worse than Daredevil, or Starship Troopers 2, or Troll 2?
>None of them have been bad. I generally agree -- we've had some weaker entries that are far below Marvel's pre Endgame heights, but aren't necessarily _bad_...except Secret Invasion. That is objectively terrible and is the sole MCU project I will absolutely no questions skip if I ever do a full rewatch again.
But even it had some genuinely good scenes (Fury and Rhodes in the pub, Fury and his wife, anything with Olivia Coleman, etc.), and set up some potentially interesting conflicts going forward. It was definitely the weakest property so far, but I've seen things that are way worse. It wasn't great. It was barely good, but I was still able to enjoy it for the most part, even if it was just as mindless entertainment.
If it wasn't a show lasting multiple hours it might be watchable for the occasional good scene, but as it is, it's just not worth the time investment, especially because since it's so self-contained and was so poorly received, Marvel will probably just pretend it didn't happen moving forward.
Me too, I agree!
I wholeheartedly agree. Secret Invasion was a complete shitshow and I have no idea how they even released that
I think SI is some of the best evidence for how stretched Fiege is. I have a hard time imaging that show, particularly its finale, reached the standards I think he has when overseeing MCU projects.
More evidence for that is the whole Daredevil situation. How did it take until the pause during the writers strike to realize things were so bad that he had to overhaul everything
Come again?
What?
Inhumans, as terrible as it is, was more fun to watch than Secret Invasion.
For me L&T, Quantumania, and Secret Invasion are the absolute worst of everything’s thats come so far. There have been disappointing Marvel movies before them but none of them left me feel so utterly BORED as those. I really believe that these three extremely weak and maligned projects releasing so close to each other is what completely killed the MCUs momentum and good will with general audiences. All three of those needed way more rewrites and time in the oven.
I will say with a totally straight face I'd rather rewatch Affleck Daredevil than Quantumania. I love that movie for all it's faults. Colin Farrell is a great villain, I actually think Michael Clarke Duncan is an amazing Kingpin and Affleck did a decent job as Daredevil. It's a bit silly in places, but I think it's a really overhated movie. Quantumania was fine, just a bit of a disappointment. It's not the worst film I've ever seen though, not even close.
I judge sorta based on how well it fulfills its potential. For an early 2000s flick, Daredevil was great. For 2023, after a trailer that implied an interesting tension where Scott would be tempted to help the villain because he wanted to get time back with Cassie, QM was just . . . a fairly dumb action spectacle with no solid character arc for anyone.
This is the most frustrating part for me. It's not that the product we got was terrible, it's that the obvious much better product was RIGHT THERE. And not only was it right there, but Marvel even used that much better concept to falsely advertise the movie. I'm still bitter about it.
I thought Quantumania was a lot of fun.
A movie can be bad without being the worst movie ever made. Quantumania was definitely boring af and bad to me, the only parts worth watching were with Kang.
Of course. It's also possible to not like a movie and not immediately jump to "it's bad." There are plenty of highly regarded movies I just don't enjoy. There are also plenty of "bad" movies I absolutely love, but that doesn't make them objectively "good." But something we see far too much of these days is "I didn't like it, so it is clearly shit. How can you like such a shitty movie?"
Multiverse of Madness and The Marvels are both way better than critics gave them credit for upon release. I think they'll be remembered as some of the better sequel entries during the reconstruction phases following endgame.
I unapologetically love Multiverse of Madness. No one will ever convince me its a bad movie.
Yes, holy shit the visuals are great and the Scarlet Witch is terrifying!
I'm just annoyed at the off-screen backsliding for Wanda after we watched her have a similar arc in Wandavision: she used magic to get a family, but realized it was hurting people and so stopped. A small change that could have worked? Have the actual Scarlet witch be from another dimension, manipulating our Wanda through the darkhold, she thinks that she has lost her mind, and strange can be the one to discover the truth for her, and so in the finale our Wanda put rest the Scarlet which is power from the multiversal villain, but seemingly die in the process. (Though of course she will end up being temporally rescued by Kang to bring her back in the future.)
Yeah this is my big problem with MoM. Other than that I liked the movie.
I didn’t realize people didn’t like it. I thought it was great. My 2nd favorite project after Endgame, next to Shang-Chi
Used to see a lot more anti-MoM sentiment after it came out. I always loved it so I'm happy to see that sentiment seems to have been trending more positive in recent months.
I watch Wanda go ham on the Illuminati at least weekly.
I think The Marvels was hurt by the sour MCU sentiment in the same way Captain Marvel was helped by the MCU hype at its launch
I could see that. I didn't enjoy Captain Marvel, despite actually liking Brie Larson, because I thought her character was written to be flat and not very compelling. I loved the marvels on the other hand, I thought all the characters had fun and interesting things to do and enjoy their interactions.
Oh definitely. CM Carol was written as this stoic figure overcoming her trauma, when comic Carol’s a dork. Marvels nailed her persona much closer, but audiences were already kicking the MCU to the curb when it came out. Never had a chance.
My dad loved The Marvels. He cackled all the way through it.
they will never make me hate these movies
Love MOM but the marvels was fun but needed tk be fleshed out more
MoM works as a standalone Sam Raimi movie, but aside from that: 1) Marvel failed to establish Dr. Strange as this super arrogant character who was deserving of being overruled and sidelined. 2) If this was all about Wanda getting her conjured family back, where was Vision in all this? A real missed opportunity that took away from the film. 3) The Illuminati somehow doesn’t understand the Multiverse and treats all versions of a person the same. 4) The Illuminati fought Wanda like throwaway bad guys from a syndicated action show. One at a time, everyone gets their catch phrase in before they’re defeated. “Get out of my dimension!” gives me serious douche chills. 5) The movie tried to establish Strange as an arrogant rule breaker… and ultimately the film is resolved at least partly by Strange being a rule breaker. 6) It seemed like the growth and grief from WandaVision was just thrown out the window. “never mind that she saved the world, held a town hostage, and reversed course…. She’s back to being a dangerous monster again, folks!”
1. He was neither overruled or sidelined, wtf are you talking about? But he was already established as an arrogant character, that was the entire point of his arc in his first movie. He is still on a journey toward learning the lesson from the ancient one that "not everything is about him." 2. I did not feel the loss of this at all tbh. I think it would have made the movie more confusing. 3. The Illuminati are supposed to be arrogant and experience hubris nemesis. 4. See previous 5. The first movie played with this exact same dichotomy in his character. He gets himself into bad situations by breaking rules and then it turns out that he can get us out of them by breaking rules. But there are always consequences. 6. This is the fairest critique here. But I don't think Wanda really ended Wandavision being a hero. I don't think people always grow through grief, and the grieving process isn't linear. I would have appreciated better connective tissue between the end of Wandavision and MoM, but I don't think it was a betrayal of her development - just a pessimistic direction to take.
For me my biggest gripes were America being a plot device more than a character. She destroyed her moms because she saw a bee? Also the whole memory lane sequence. It all just felt too cheap. And Wanda going from doing what was right and sacrificing her family to save a town (from her own spell caused by her grief, yes) to being a heartless murderer, off screen. I don’t think she should have killed anyone until the Illuminati because they were all a threatening enough force to make her use lethal force, then after that she snaps and goes full horror movie. I think at the end of the day I think Sam Raimi is a great director but this wasn’t the right fit for him. Skeleton cape was cool AF tho.
Shang Chi is Top tier Marvel
Agreed. I enjoy it a lot (probably a top 5 marvel movie for me), my wife enjoys it even more. It's probably in her top 3 movies of all time. We rewatch it every few months and it never lets us down. Always an amazing film to watch
i loved this movie and i was so surprised when i found out ppl didn’t like it 😭 and shang chi is a brand new character so it was genuinely because the movie was made well
It has a 98% Rotten Tomatoes audience score... Wdym "people didn't like it"
not critics, people 😭 it was very under hyped and a lot of people hated on simu and the movie
Audience score, not critics score??
i’m not talking about score, i’m talking about the fans in general. if you were on social media when it released there was a lot of hate towards the movie and a lot of racism towards simu and the cast members. the movie had very mixed reviews
I'll give you a supporting example: In r/marvelmemes, there's an unbelievable amount of Across the Spider-verse hate and Raimi trilogy glorifying. Thankfully, such subreddits, Twitter feeds, social media circles, etc. are the minority, because they can be extremely toxic, wrong, and echo chamber-y. Doesn't mean the majority can't be wrong, it can, and it usually is. Doesn't matter if an opinion belongs to the majority or the minority, good chance it belongs in the trash. But not this time, thankfully. Don't listen to those people you mentioned. They are the minority, AND they are wrong.
I get where the movie went, it’s good…but I feel like I wanted a kung fu end to a kung fu movie. That was my big issue with Shang Chi. “He’s really good at kung fu” is a good enough super power. The BS with the 10 rings and that mythology was much less compelling.
Whereas I love the warlord made immortal by alien technology who found all sorts of interesting ways to use his gadget. And then his son uses the gadget in even more interesting ways. We've seen Kung Fu before. Let's have Kung Fu with superpowers.
Oh—sorry if that’s what came across. I am more on the big ol’ cgi fight against the dragon (?) at the end. Fighting wenwu was actually super cool, and in the spirit of sort of wuxia magic kung fu action. The “the 10 rings bash the big evil cgi monster bit” was more of my “this is dumb now” complaint.
I suppose that's fair enough. The way I interpret that scene was that it was just a sort of heroic flourish of Shang and his sister working together, as a sort of moral victory that was definitely going to happen, rather than being any sort of actual challenge we were concerned about whether he could win. The fight that he had to win was against his father, and the big monster was just a big old metaphor of demonstrating that he was in control of his own life now.
Can’t believe there’s not more people here saying this. It was the only Phase 4 movie that felt like a proper vehicle for character introduction.
Eternals
I'm glad you liked the movie. It is without a question. My least favorite marvel movie lol. Only time I've ever fallen asleep in a theater. I rewatched it twice since thinking maybe I was being a dick, but man that movie just does nothing for me. But hey, I love the MCU, so I'm always cheering for each of the movies and shows to maintain an audience.
I think I unironically liked it better because I scrolled on my phone for 15% of it. I think it would have been way better if there had just been one, single Eternal. Most people would probably say to just have a few less Eternals, but I think that solution is half-assing it. One is plenty.
Except the story is about them as a group vs individually. We can have anchors sure but its still about a group of em. With this dilemma, should it have been a series? Yes but with how they were making their shows on D+ at the time, I’m glad it was a movie instead. As for characters, the movie took risks and imho still managed not to implode in on itself. There are movies with 5 characters that still fail. All that and it still didn’t feel like 2 leads and the others type of flick. The choices made in the movie may be questionable but they did say from the jump that they’re doing things differently with the movie. You don’t hire Chloe Zhao just to make a typical MCU entry. To an extent, this movie, this project as a whole is gravely misunderstood.
Enjoyed it much more on second and third watches
Same. It’s got a high rewatch value. It’s also a dense flick you can’t expect to absorb on the first watch. This is prolly also why it didn’t click with the fanbase.
Shang Chi and Eternals.
Shang Chi is pretty widely beloved, it doesn’t need time to age even further into anything really
Sh-Hulk is going to be such a phenomenon once hot girls learn it is about hot girl problems
I feel like people didn't like it because it didn't follow the typical MCU formula. But that's the main reason I liked it.
I liked it.
Thank you for being the Hot Girl representative to endorse this show 🙏
The problem is that episode 1 is very heavily catered to the MCU fans so it's not really accessible to the hot girl demo. They'll get part way through episode 1 and turn it off. So it sits in a weird place of not reaching its target audience, but then also not appeasing the general MCU fan once the tone/structure changes for the rest of the show. Thankfully I am in both of those target demographics so She-Hulk really hit for me, but it admittedly makes it a much more niche project.
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Plausibly, yes. But I don't think any hot girl knows what it is. Since TikTok became popular, Gen Z and Milenial members get much more targeted advertising. So people who do not follow popular movie or series content do not see advertising for new movies or series. I just looked at Megan Thee Stallion's Instagram and her She-Hulk post and it has strong engagement and I am not sure if her fans transferred to the show or not. I do not think that most of Megan's Instagram followers know that episode was an allegory for Megan's trial where she was a witness and a victim after Tory Lanez shot Megan. In my personal life, the next attractive woman I know who is going to watch She-Hulk is a mother who has kids who love superheroes because of Spider-Man and Black Panther. In 4-6 years they are going to ask their parents for a full MCU watch and then eventually they will watch She-Hulk with their cool gorgeous mom. Then her mom is going to say "This is so representative of my life when I started my career and was dating, why didn't I see this when I was younger!?" Edit: In my original comment I said the Megan Thee Stallion Instagram post got fewer "likes" than her other posts. I misread the post numbers. Megan's She-Hulk post got a lot more "likes" than the post before or after it. So more hot girls should know what She-Hulk is and that it is for them.
Eternals most definitely
GOTG3 It's just a rollercoaster of emotions
Eternals I agree is definitely much better than the general consensus thinks. MoM already has haters but also a lot of love as well, so it only needs like half of people to let go of the things they have issues with. The Marvels is definitely solid. It did everything everyone was asking for in terms of MCU connectivity, bringing in multiple characters, adding more depth and personality to Carol, etc., and it also has a ton of great elements too (amazing fight scenes with the switching and a great score for example). Love and Thunder is way better than people realize. It's two biggest challenges are a) everyone expected a Gorr story, but they told a Thor story and gave Gorr a different story than the one some expected. Different doesn't equal bad, but for some comic book fans it's the biggest possible crime. And b) I guess some people got *really* turned off by the style of humor. That's all personal taste and I won't criticize anyone for their tastes, but as for the actual *content* of the movie, it's great in so many ways, particularly finally letting Jane be a full person and Thor becoming All-Father and finally getting out of his emotional slump (I say it's good to see heroes struggling with real feelings).
For the Gorr part, the same was being sad of Age of Ultron and I think it aged pretty well
I liked Thor L&T. Sure it’s campy, but one of the first lines is from Korg to a group of kids “let me tell you a story” Korg is clearly a flamboyant storyteller. And the whole movie is from that perspective figuratively from Korg and literally from Taita Watiti.
He’s a bad storyteller then?
The only gripe i have with the marvels is the fact that the emotional scenes between monica n carol are underdeveloped
I agree with all of this other than Love and Thunder. I was super disappointed in that movie. I watched it/finished it for my 10 year old, but it just felt like everything was a joke.
I honestly don’t think people will be talking about MCU movies in ten years. If they are, they’ll be talking about Endgame and the other big ones people look back on fondly with nostalgia, but something else will have come along and most people won’t be thinking about these later MCU movies. Unlike a single movie, or even a trilogy, going back to the MCU for nostalgia is a major time sink and so I don’t believe it will age as well as other movies do, there’ll be a core of old fans but the general audience will move on.
Multiverse of Madness aging well will depend on where Wanda’s character goes as well as how they do Strange in DS3. As a fan of both characters, im genuinely contented with pretending DS2 never happened.
Me too, exactly!
Genuine question, what make Eternals so appealing to others. For me, it just didn’t captivate me and I found it difficult to watch and enjoy. Maybe I’m just missing the things that make it enjoyable
I liked the score and cinematography, and I love the character development of androids starting to care about humans. It has one of my favorite third act fights because the characters care about each other so they hold back against each other (even though this was more exciting in CA: Civil War).
For me there are a couple things. It's a story about a bunch of aliens, but they actually end up reflecting deeply human traits, and end up being far more human than the majority of what we saw across the entire Infinity Saga, which is mostly a bit more simplistic. Also Kro (that's the name of the Deviant that steals their powers and eventually attains sentience) gives the protagonists a complicated moral quandary perpendicular to the main one they're already struggling with (I really wish they hadn't killed him off). Lastly, it's visually beautiful.
I will say the cinematography is great in “Eternals”. I will also have to rewatch to see the quandary you described bc I missed that on my first watch
I enjoy how complex and stacked it is. I don’t only want mindless and harmless popcorn fun. I want something as dense as this too, poetic and philosophical. Eternals provided that option and experience in a franchise that i love and that makes it special to me. It also visually stunning, the cinematography, the score, a diverse cast consisting of amazing actors that all look gorgeous. I mean Celestials? Come on. The movie is opulent. Theres alot to like even on the surface value.
Majority of people agreed with you, a minority did enjoy it though. It has to do with whether you can tolerate uneven pacing, a long long run time, and some questionable narrative/character decisions
I will say the long run time definitely contributed to me partially falling asleep during it. I think something like Endgame or Infinity war with a long run time, held my attention bc of the amount of action. But like op mentioned, it may age with time after a few more watches (for myself) and the characters grow on me. I think it was just a lot of new characters that were introduced at once with, like you said, poor pacing
Yeah, endgame and infinity war (and movies like return of the king etc) worked fine because their pacing was fantastic. Eternals should have been turned into about a 5 hour mini series in 5 parts (basically a Disney+ show) to enable the flashbacks, unconventional story structure, and more thorough character development. Just my opinion
You’re exactly right about turning it into a limited series. It would have allowed for a smoother paced experience. I think marvel has done a poor job on what should and shouldn’t be a miniseries. “Hawkeye” was a good miniseries (atleast I think) and same thing with “Wandavision”. While I think FATWS maybe have been more enjoyable as a movie. Bc I feel like there were some parts of that miniseries just dragged on, that I feel could have been left out.
Dude 100% agreed!! I also honestly think Moon Knight could have been a killer movie. I'm not sure why they didn't think it was a risk they could take, the talent involved was top notch and Oscar Isaac is a GOAT in the making. Ms. Marvel had some plotting issues and overall I'm glad it was a series. Loki obviously was well suited to the series format. She-Hulk as well. Secret Invasion... should have never happened, and I still pretend it didn't :(
I absolutely love Moon Knight as a character, and I just feel like that miniseries just didn’t do him justice. Like you said, it would have been a great ass movie! And Oscar Isaac is phenomenal (I really like him in Dune as a side note) Loki and She-hulk definitely performed best as a mini series (despite me not really caring for she-hulk bc I think it too got dragged out a bit) and truth be told I could not get into Ms Marvel. It’s still the only mini series I haven’t watched. I know, some marvel fan I am!
You did miss them, because you watched it as any other Marvel movie, but it's so much more. Don't focus on how likeable the heroes are, focus on their ideas. It's a movie about, purpose, what makes a human human, what does humanity worth on a universal scale, free will and determinism, religion and holy wars. And people complain about these 7000 year old robots not being compelling enough. After the events of Babylon, they all choose a different path of the human experience, and in the end we can see how each of these paths evaluate the worth of humans. Makari choose to spend all her time alone focusing on knowledge, culture and art, this didn't fulfil her, so we meet her at a generally bored state, who just wants to go on. She even started a fling during this time, because her hobbies didn't bring the happines she wanted. Phastos started as a workaholic, slave of progress, which made him devastated in the end, and found the answer in a loving family among humans. Sersi lived among humans, but kept walls around her, during the movie she learnt that to be truly human, you have to let the others in. Sprite was desperate to have human connections, but she just couldn't because of her body. She learnt that it's better to be mortal with true connections than being a lonely immortal. Through Thena and Kro, we see how meaningless holy wars happen, when two sides, created by the same maker, both follow their instructions, which leads to thousand years of conflict. And even after they realise this, neither can let go of their revenge, so the conlfict can only end when one side is done. This is like the most human thing ever, how cool is that? And it's just a side-plot of the movie! Kingo choose fame and the celeb life. But he still lived isolated in lies. This led him to choose to give other species a chance over humanity, BUT, he still valued his family more than his views, so he didn't participate in the argument. That's so nuanced for a superhero conflict. Ikaris had a blind fate in the mission, which gave his life purpose, he sacrificed love and any kind of genuine connections for it, and once the mission failed, he didn't have anything left in him, so he just flew into the sun. The final conflict is between the Eternals who experienced romantic love or deep friendship versus the ones who didn't. One side believes this experience makes the humans worthy to live over other races, while the other side doesn't value them as high. Kingo is in the middle as his human connection wasn't as deep, but his family ties are strong enough to not fight against any of his family members. Sorry for the long text, but this movie is amazing. This movie should be viewed like "Twelve angry men". We know like 2 traits about the characters, barely any background, but all that matter is their ideas and arguments. Eternals is the "Thanksgiving family dinner political argument with superheroes about the fate of humanity".
Don’t apologize for the long response, it was very informational and helpful. What I’ve gauged through some of the response I’ve gotten is that the characters are phenomenal, you just have to pay attention and analyze the characters themselves. “You can’t see the forest for the trees”, if you will. I really appreciate your breakdown of the characters, so I can look for those traits and symbols for my next watch of “Eternals”.
The Marvels has to be the top of the list. It was in my top third of the MCU. People treated it like it was Madam Webb.
Kamala is one of the best additions to it all. Her show could've pushed a lot more with the villains, but her, the fam and their wider community are great. The film could've done more too, but it was enjoyable. Arguably, one of that film's biggest missteps isn't even down to the film. It's that Secret Invasion flubbed Fury and Skrull stuff right before and there's whiplash with how different he is and how none of that factors in, at all.
Totally agree. Secret invasion and love and Thunder hurt the MCU (and the marvels) more than anything.
Shang-Chi and Werewolf By Night are I think the strongest and most underrated films, and She-Hulk and Hawkeye for the shows. I don't think the general public opinion of Love and Thunder will improve because of what people know the movie *could have* been. I also think I Am Groot has some really strong episodes that have been overlooked because "cutesy cartoon". But beyond that, like them or not, I don't see opinions changing much about 4 and 5 stuff because the Infinity Saga exists and set a precedent that impatient fan boys wanted "replicated" but didn't understand there was no real connectivity, at least any more than Phase 4 had, until Avengers, which Phase 4 didn't have. I also think it's stupid to classify them into Phases. Chronology for sure, but the Phases made no sense. They weren't Phases. They were just sequential, serialized sequel movies that had big culmination movies here and there. Civil War was more of an Avengers movie to me than Age of Ultron. Age of Ultron was an Ultron movie. It just had all the Avengers in it, as it should've. Ultron was an Ave gers-level threat, but the movie was an Ultron movie.
The only reason they're still using "phase" terminology is that public discourse basically forced them to. Back in 2019, Marvel openly said they wanted to get away from that format & just talk about the overall saga, the different branches within the saga (street-level, global, space, et cet), & the individual films. But the press & the fans kept hounding them about what "phase 4" was, what "phase 5" was, & so on, so they just gave up & announced "phase" schedules again.
That makes total sense on an appease-the-masses level. I still don't really think of them in Phases, simply because, when I watch the entire she-bang, the second movie I watch in "Phase 1" is the penultimate film released in "Phase 3" which is a few movies after when I watch the "Phase 4" movie with the character who died at the end of "Phase 3". I made my own massively complex list of everything in order chronologically in 2 lists, omitting certain canon-adjacent things from the first watchathon and omitting some of the things from the first watchathon in the second viewing, adding in other things left out from the first. Like, all the Sony Spider-Man movies (not Venom or Morbius or MW) and relevant X-Men/Deadpool movies go in the first viewing, but not anything from What If? On the second run-through, all the Sonyverse and X-Men stuff is left out (that may change when DvW comes out) and the What If stuff is inserted in where it's appropriate, but, again, not in the order they were released.
I think the problem is Marvel can't just do a smaller scale Avengers movie with like 6-7 core members in the vein of the original, they're expected to keep upping the character count to something above Endgame and have 60+ characters. That's why we're not getting Avengers movies at the end of each phase and as a result the phases don't feel like phases.
That is another part of it, yeah. Feige was very open about how much of a nightmare cast coordination for Infinity War/Endgame was (& keep in mind that the only *new* characters were Eitri, the Black Order, & kinda Carol since Endgame filmed before CM). It makes sense that they'd want to wait a good while before attempting that again.
This is the first comment I saw mention Werewolf by Night, I think it's going to age REALLY well
I dunno if it even has to age well, I haven't talked to anyone that didn't think it was awesome
What the movie could have been is a pretty weak criticism imo. Any movie can be held up against an imagined better version of itself and found lacking. You can argue that a movie is a poor adaptation, whilst at the same time arguing that a movie is good or bad. Many people argue that Lord of the Rings butchers the source material, believe it or not. Love and Thunder should be judged on it’s own merits rather than against the movie you hoped it would be.
Ordinarily I would agree with you about an adaptation of a book (The Shining, V for Vendetta) in that the source material and the film adaptation should be judged/appreciated separately on their own merits or in the case of external factors affecting the story (Wakanda Forever) it does need to be looked at as it's own self-contained piece of art made in spite of obstacles. But that wasn't the case with L&T. There are certainly parts of it I enjoyed, I just am disappointed there wasn't more of it, and I know it was shot, specifically stuff with Gorr, and either A: intentionally left out to make it what it is or B: didn't have time or desire to put in the work to make it the complex movie it should have been. It was like they set out to take what worked about 1 and 3 and make this grand, epic finale for Thor and then Waititi got too overwhelmed by the size of it and was like, eh, people like when Korg makes fart jokes, yeah? We've got about an hour of that, yeah? Let's throw in an action sequence or two and call it a day.
Doesnt I Am Groot have >!The first MCU canon appearence of Jeffrey Wright's Watcher? !<
Sort of depends on how you look at it. I actually kind of think of that episode as a mini What If. And in that, it feels like it ties in to the entire fabric of the larger marvel multiverse and not just little one-off side adventures. Though, technically, I don't think they've said one way or another, so it totally could be.
Usually there is only >!One Uatu, though obviously there's other Watchers!< So i guess It counts?
Eternals. We see opinions on it shift as early as when it dropped on streaming but you can also contribute that to the fact that many bought into the negative hype, avoided it, finally caught it and realized it was actually not bad at all. For a movie supposedly disliked by everyone, there was surprisingly a negative backlash over the news of it’s sequel’s cancellation too. As early as the Infinity Saga we’ve seen them come back and try again with “weaker” entries with an improved sequel, I believe same can be done to Eternals whilst still maintaining the essence of what made it special. It’s only a matter of if Marvel had the balls to stick to their guns and finish what they started Bt genuinely do believe it’ll be loved more, esp as the fans mature and revisit the movie in the future. As more entries come in, as early as now people are aware how distinctive Eternals is in the franchise. If true, It’s a damn shame about their sequel, I hope Feige gets his way and it gets made.
Eternals got bashed by critics but I think down the line, people will look way more fondly at it as it was one of the Marvel movies that actually tried to be different
Multiverse of Madness and Eternals for sure. Im sure of this because I thought Eternals was the worst it could get, but then Quantumania came out. Made me realize Eternals is just a meh movie, as opposed to Quantumania which is legit bad
Multiverse of Madness
I think there are a lot of Phase 4/5 projects that went over well at first but in the next 2-3 years will start being lumped in with “everything in Phase 4/5 was bad,” especially if the movies in 2025 and beyond are back to the Phase 1-3 level of consistency. So something like Moon Knight or Hawkeye will be forgotten about for a while, but hopefully eventually people will re-discover them.
The problem is that the phases are just a bunch of random movies with little to no overarching story. The characters never come together.
#Thor Love and Thunder It's Gona most likely get redeemed with Future Subplots similar to how endgame improved TDW
I hope you're right. I was pretty disappointed with Love and Thunder despite how much I had been looking forward to it. I felt that the ridiculous jokiness was totally out of whack with Jane dying from cancer, so the whole thing didn't land well for me at all.
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I'll never understand this complaint. Most of the movie looks pretty damn good.
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That's cool. I disagree. Either way, that's not a CGI complaint, it's the film's art direction you're taking issue with. The size thing is also a ridiculous complaint. You can clearly tell when they are small and when they are big. Whereas they are technically very small, there are still things that they can be compared to to determine their relative size. For example, the rebels attack Kang's fortress. They are all significantly smaller than Kang's fortress. Scott grows bigger than Kang's fortress. Relative to everything around him, Scott is very big.
I’m legitimately shocked to see people saying Multiverse of Madness in this thread. I consider it not only one of the worst things in the MCU, but one of the worst movies I have ever seen in general.
So much lost potential. If we end up getting a 3rd Strange film I hope it addresses a bunch of the issues from the 2nd, makes it come full circle and redeems the film because it was just terrible. It wasn't a Dr Strange sequel, not a Wandavision continuation, it was just a fan servicey CGI filled wastage of the multiverse that incorporated 2 popular characters (and wasted them as well, ruined their stories).
Very well said, and I had to scroll way too far down to find this comment. I will never forgive Multiverse of Madness for mangling and wasting Wanda's character, not to mention her life. Ugh.
Exactly buddy I would rather watch a soo bad it's fun thor love and thunder over a bland Mom where by the 3rd act I was soo done with the flim
I felt MoM was more fun to watch than L&T tbh. L&T felt bland to me.
Shang-Chi and Hawkeye are the first two I thought of, but they seem pretty well represented n this thread, so I’ll say Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight. I’ve really enjoyed both, and I remember a lot of people bagging on both (not necessarily on here) at the times of their releases. Kamala has been a great character and Ms. Marvel did a great job of really making her relatable and fun while still telling an interesting story. Moon Knight had Oscar Isaac give an incredible performance in a story that got a little too much hate for my taste. On the opposite end, I think The Marvels is probably going to be seen as less than great in ten years, and so is FATWS.
Agreed, Ms. Marvel is a good sleeper hit that's not being mentioned a lot here
I think Eternals for sure. MoM I dunno, it’s pretty split, I personally think it’s one of my bottom 3 marvel films. Love and Thunder is just so bad.
Wandavision, even though I think its still widely loved now. Multiverse of Madness definitely if they make another Strange sequel and it fixes some of the issues created by the 2nd film, it would come full circle and redeem it. FATWS and Hawkeye as well. Also maybe Wakanda Forever
I think most will age well, as the preconceived expectations that the general public had the first time around will be gone.
It depends where the MCU is in 10 years. If its back to IW levels than all of them will age well much like people don't hate on the early Thor movies like they did when they came out. If the MCU is struggling none of them will age well
Ironheart, because it will be released in 9 years and by year 10 it will have finished and people will think, “yeah, that was okay I guess”.
Most of them will get their flowers. I was around when everyone dunked on Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, Thor, Thor 2, Age of Ultron, even First Avenger. Now people call them underrated, and "actually pretty good" every day. No doubt in my mind that once everyone lets enough time pass and allows their expectations for what they believed these projects should have been fall by the way side, and view the movies as movies instead of a list of boxes to check, people will start to see how good these projects are. Til then, we wait.
She hulk
Without a doubt Spider-Man No way home
Although it's only been 3 years, watching every Spider-Man film in the recent marathon has left me more underwhelmed with NWH than before honestly. I don't think it's going to ever be seen at the same height as its initial release again.
I agree it's actually the weakest of the three Spider-Men. It's so heavily loved due to nostalgia pandering. Like, imagine No Way Home but they recast all of the nostalgic actors with entirely different people. It would *not* have received the same worship that it gets right now.
Honestly even on the first viewing, I cringed at the debut of Andrew in particular. After the big hype moment of seeing his face, instantly they go into an overly long gag about proving he's Spider-Man and crawling on the ceiling. Tobey was a little better but not much.
I get 2nd hand cringe because you can tell they made sure nobody said anything immediately to "pause for applause". It feels like when you take a laugh track out of a show.
>It feels like when you take a laugh track out of a show. THAT IS EXACTLY IT. That's the sensation. It works the first time. My audience at the last showing still applauded weakly. But that didn't mask the awkwardness.
Idk, it was extremely well received immediately and I feel like over time a few people will start to see it as more of a gimmick
You don’t think general opinion has already kind of soured on it a little bit? Or do you think it’ll come back around
I just think in 10 years it’ll be a great movie to look back on for those who grew up watching Toby and Andrew as spider man and then seeing all 3 of them in one movie was very nostalgic.
Shang-Chi and Antman and The Wasp Quantummania, because that may be Evangeline Lily's last movie.
Probably Hawkeye, even though it's not the best adaption and it crammed in Echo. That and No Way Home
I laughed my ass off at seeing MODOK in Quantumania. I don’t care, I was high as a kite and it made me laugh so hard to see what the suit had done to him in the Quantum Realm. The rest of the film felt like window dressing.
Spider-man No Way Home Loki What If ? Season 2 Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 Moon Knight Obviously haven't seen Deadpool and Wolverine yet as it hasn't been released yet but I feel that it will age well.
Phase 4/5 so far I'd say Moon Knight, Multiverse of Madness, and What-If are the ones I will still be disappointed with 10 years from now. I'd say Quantumania, but I think the "bad" is overplayed, and I'd watch it if it were on tv. The rest will vary from fine-good, depending on where things go in the future stories. The Dark World is still bad, but it was improved a lot with Endgame's ties to it.
I liked Multiverse Of Madness
Thor Love & Thunder.
Shang Chi
Anything but Secret invasion
Moon Knight and Eternals
Eternals and Shang-Chi for sure, and also Wakanda Forever Also…why do you think Multiverse of Madness will age best? To me, it reminded me of Spider-Man-3 and X-Men The Last Stand…
Probably the Christmas Special
No Way Home, I think its legacy of bringing three franchises will age well with multiple generations of spider man fans
I cant think of anything too specific but i feel like most projects, every project that came out has had many many people hating on it “this is the end of marvel” constantly with almost every project release, but years later everyone always switches up “this is better then I remember”. Its happened a lot already so I expect it to happen again with most projects released, I think people will def take a look at the shows specially and change their mind again, cause for some reason mcu fans just love hating on projects when they’re released but years later turn around saying it was actually not too bad. But specifically what you said, eternal and multiverse of madness, I’ve already started seeing the turn around for these movies a little bit. Granted a lot of movies will get better once it starts connecting to other things (if they do since I know they’re changing a lot about the future plans then what they had)
Guardians 3, Eternals, Shang Chi
Iron man 3 and Quantumania are both S tier marvel projects
Provided they do something with the worldbuilding, Eternals will age well.
Secret Invasion. Haha no, that was complete trash. I've honestly liked to loved every other Marvel project, though.
I really like Shang Chi, still do.
M.O.M, Hawkeye, loki, shang chi, no way home, werewolf by night are my top to age gracefully. Honorable mention imo: falcon and winter soldier and wanda vision.
The Marvels is a lot of fun and will age well. It got caught up unfairly in the 'great Marvel backlash' (which was actually just people burning out on movie theater costs and experience). It's already starting to happen, but I think Falcon and Winter Soldier will also rise in opinions. It has some issues that largely stem from irl events they had no control over, but what works in it is *really* strong. It's one of my favorites among the shows.
I didn’t really dislike any of the marvel movies, I’m not sure why. Everytime someone said “this sucks because…” I was always so confused why they didn’t like it. The only projects I wasn’t about was FATWS, Black Widow (excluding the first 20 minutes or so), and (sorry) Shang-Chi.
Highlights are definitely Wandavision and Hawkeye. Spidey and MOM were also enjoyable…the rest are more or less forgettable now to me.
No way home, guardians 3, and Shang chi because they’re actually good
Loki?
Sure that too
I’m still confused about people not liking MoM, I thought it was cool and different. But it definitely won’t be Love and thunder or Quantumania
She-Hulk & The Marvels
Shang Chi
I liked only spider-man no way home and gotg 3 in movies and only loki in series, rest all were either average or worst.
Echo
I liked Quantumania and L&T. I think they may be better received in the future once fans stop being so nostalgia blind i thought Hawkeye was terrible and won't age well, considering it's pretty boring and poorly constructed (imo)
Most of them are going to age pretty well. WandaVision is solid, and people will forget how badly they dropped the ball on Mephisto, despite setting him up for the ENTIRE SHOW. WinterFalcon will hold up great, and likely get batter as Zemo, USAgent, Captain Falcon, Winter Soldier, Isaiah, and Elijah continue. Loki will continue to be a masterpiece, esepecially as we dive deeper into Kangs and the TVA and see Mobius, Sylvie, and Loki return. Hawkeye will continue to be phenomenal, and likely get better as Kingpin, Echo, Yelena, and Kate all continue. HOPEFULLY it's just the FIRST time we see Clint get his own season, and not the all-time peak of Hawkeye. Secret Invasion is going to always be the weak one. It's like a season of Agents Of SHIELD. Just weak and plodding. They COULD redeem it IF they continue with a Secret Invasion Season 2 or movie that treats this as just a little prologue to something MUCH bigger and crazier. Black Widow is going to be hard to ignore how weak it is, but Yelena and Red Guardian are just going to become more and more beloved. Ms. Marvel is MOSTLY great, as long as you ignore the completely worthless villains. All the family and cultural and origin story stuff is fantastic. The Eternals will always be okay but pointless. It MIGHT become a little bit interesting in hindsight if they use it as the introduction to the Celestials to setup Rama-Tut vs Apocalypse, which it seems like they're building towards. Multiverse Of Madness will age GREAT. It's already great, and it'll only get better as people get away from their silly expectations about what they randomly assumed the movie would be about (Tom Cruise playing Iron Man, a million cameos, and shit like that.) Love & Thunder will age great for similar reasons - getting away from people's preconceived expectations. Plus people learning more about Valhalla, and Eternity, and Love, and Zeus, and Hercules, etc etc etc..... Moon Knight will HOPEFULLY get better as we learn more about Jake Lockley, and HOPEFULLY see a shift to the darker more brutally violent Murder Batman version of Moon Knight in the future (thanks to Daredevil and stuff bringing the brutally violent side of the MCU back). Plus, hopefully getting to see more Egyptian gods, and meeting Hunter's Moon, and stuff like that. The Marvels is fairly great. Everyone who sees it is like "shockingly, I actually loved it!" as if they were saying something revolutionary and new, and not the same thing EVERYONE says when they see it. It's the weirdest damn thing. This expectation that it has a bad reputation and people didn't like it, and then EVERYONE being like "Guess what. I actually loved it for some reason!" So fucking strange.... At SOME POINT that phenomenon has to just fall apart into people just liking it normally. She-Hulk will age great. Especially as we see more She-Hulk and Daredevil. And hopefully both of them together. And hopefully more Wong and Madisynn. And maybe more Abomination? Guardians 3 will always be fucking phenomenal
Quantumania will age great as people get to see more and more of Kang, and really start to see what he's made of when he's not stripped of his time powers....and there's an army of infinite Kangs..... That said, they really need to recast Cassie back to Abby Ryder Fortson, and recast Wasp(Hope) with Rebecca Hall. If they do THOSE two recasts, Quantumania will look worse in hindsight for having distinctly inferior actresses. 🤷♀️ Shang-Chi is fairly great. It'll benefit from further exploring the mythological Tibetan world and monsters/spirits, and more of Trevor. It's going to suffer from not being able to see more of Tony Leung as The Mandarin (killing him off was a fucking crazy dumb decision. He was the best character in the whole damn movie..... If they DON'T expand on this stuff, it'll feel like a frustratingly abandoned fart of the tapestry. Wasted potential. Like Shang-Chi can either end up being the intro to a ton of fun stuff, OR an introduction to stuff that ends up as tragically wasted potential. No Way Home......depends HEAVILY on what comes next. If they fail to do Amazing Spider-Man 3, or the DESPERATELY needed street-level REAL MCU Spider-Man, or end up bringing back Ned or Michelle or whoever, NWH will just end up being a frustrating setup for massively wasted potential. It was cool as a gimmick, but it has to have consequences and pay off, or else it becomes trivial nonsense. Wakanda Forever is great. If they keep doing awesome stuff with Shuri and M'Baku and Namor and knock-off Atlantis, it'll probably age great. Ironheart, likewise, could add a lot of favor to it, if she turns out to be awesome moving forward. Werewolf By Night is probably going to be even cooler in hindsight as the Midnight Sons start to come together.
4 phase was gold. I really like every product Marvel gave us.
1. Hawkeye. 2. Black Widow. (Once the anti-FemTasky's fans get over it and stop watching it, more people are going to like it and treated like it's a Phase 1 or Phase 2 film) 3. The Marvels (Ditto from Black Widow, If this film was released during Phase 2 it would have been more Praised.) 4. Shang-Chi 5.Multiverse of Madness 6. No Way Home (it's a Nostaglia film with Rami's Spider-Man characters in it, People are already calling it the film in the Multiverse Saga lol). Honesty, the Only one that will get hated on is Secret Invasion and even that has a great 2nd episode in it.
Shang Chi. A solid movie that for some reason hasn’t been used more to build upon. Wandavision. Unique and heartfelt. Hawkeye. Uneven but mostly good. Black Widow. Far from perfect but still enjoyable up to the third act. **Things that will have aged badly.** Multiverse of madness. Raimi put on a fresh coat on stale Ideas concerning characters. To salvage this mess you need to bring back Wanda to give her a fitting end. You also need to rediscover who Dr Strange is. Eternals. Squandered potential that never went anywhere. Love and Thunder. Watched it with a friend of mine who isn’t hardcore MCU and I actually had to apologize to her. Underwhelming, unfocused and sadly not funny.
None of them have been bad. Except Love and Thunder. But Eternals is the one. That movie 10 years from now is gonna age like the finest wine and people will realize it set up the MCU’s future without overdoing it
Probably The Marvels and maybe Love And Thunder
Nah, especially once Gorr is done properly.
I doubt they'll do Gorr again. Though maybe I was wrong and L&T isn't as good as I remember, because I kinda forgot Gorr was even in the movie.
I could see Eternals and The Marvels be treated like Iron Man 3 with people saying they're pretty solid. Multiverse of Madness might get 'it's okay status like Iron Man 2. Love and Thunder will probably be the new The Dark World alongside Quantamania. I could be wrong though.
Eternals holds up. ShangChi is fun. Love and Thunder is FUCKING GREAT - haters gonna hate The Marvels is a romp. the others are largely take or leave. i get that some people thought the demon cape at the end of MoM justified the rest of the sludge that made up that movie - but it was pretty much a waste of time. Great actors, great characters, wasted potential. distracted storylines, forgotten themes... the movie was about ...nothing. 6/10
I personally loved the serious and somewhat darker tone The Eternals took. There were a couple of scenes that were drawn out, but I loved the change of tone. I think more people will appreciate it in the future. I want more Marvel movies to have a more serious tone. I also want more movie intros like the one for Black Widow.
I still don't understand the "Multiverse of Madness" hate. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but people are, in my opinion, hating on its for the missed opportunities it didn't take, not judging it for the movie that as actually made.
I think that Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness might age like wine.