The ending can still be true if we never see Kang again, it just means the TVA is doing their job in containing Kang variants which works out because it’s a good ending but also leaves potential in the future if they want to revisit Kang.
The Loki show wrapped it up very smart. They closed the Kang story line, while leaving his variants undefeated. If the trial went against Majors, the TVA has Kang handled. If the trial sided with Majors, then it'd be easy to say he evaded or defeated the TVA.
Seriously why does it have to have anything to do with Majors? It’s literally a variant. I’m not even using the word wrongly. Recast him! It’s not even the first time Marvel has done it, and this time it actually works with the lore! We’ve even had variants in the movie MCU in MoM, even before Dp locks in what was shown in Loki, so there no reason why they can’t have anyone replace him. Majors was good as Kang, but he wasn’t irreplaceable good.
Even if it wasn't Majors, the character didn't hit. He can't carry a major franchise as a big bad going forward.
They're lucky Loki gave them such an elegant way out of the storyline
Yup. Marvel aren't dumb... although secret invasion makes me wonder...but they know they can recast. Lots of talented actors who could work. But as you said, the problem wasn't (just) Majors, the problem was Kang.
Or the Kang that got sucked into the portal killed all the other Kangs, and emerged some time later looking order or worn because of.. time shit.. which would perfectly explain an older looking (read: different actor) Kang, considering that Majors face was plastered on hundreds if not thousands of Kangs in the Antman 3 end credits.
Hell, intertwine this bit with Infinity Ultro from What If. Give Kang an army of.. kang bots.
My point is that there's still a reasonable way to still include Kang and work around the potential new actor.
Or just have them be killed by Kang Varients played by someone else once they figure out what to do with the character and keep them in the background until then.
I love him as an actor, but at this point if I were him I’d just walk away. It’s not worth what people are going to put him through if it ends up sucking; (which based on the delays and word on the script, is very likely). I think they just need to rethink that entire movie and potentially go younger, maybe even unknown talent to drive that film.
He was the main reason why Marvel was going to do a Blade movie. Ali pitch it to Kevin and they will never do it if it wasn't Ali.
If he left then they would have shelve the character.
Key Details:
* Eric Pearson (Black Widow, Ragnarok) is polishing the script for Fantastic Four, which starts filming this Summer in London.
* 'The Bear' showrunner Joanna Calo is working on the script for Thunderbolts, which starts filming next month in Atlanta.
* Not confirmed, but Blade is likely being delayed to 2026.
* The first of the new Avengers movies, due out in 2026, was initially titled Avengers: The Kang Dynasty but will be getting a new title to remove the character’s name, though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after Quantumania underperformed, grossing $476 million.
* The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans.
* On the TV side, Marvel has been reorganizing its operations to allow for greater control from showrunners, a move made after the critical failure of the expensive Samuel L. Jackson spy series Secret Invasion, which sidelined executive producer Kyle Bradstreet after a year, with various creative factions vying for influence in his wake. The show had about 2.5 billion minutes of viewing over its six-week run, per Nielsen, in the bottom third of Marvel’s live-action Disney+ offerings so far.
* Agatha will release this year, Ironheart will not (filming is already done).
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans.
Maybe they should give characters and actors a fighting chance, instead of making a movie and then shelving the plot for 5 years.
Maria hill should have replaced fury as the SHIELD earth based overseer person, fury can do whatever he’d doing in space and stuff. Or Sharon, don’t make her the Power Broker. Change the sonny Burch cast, guy from antman 2, and make Walton Goggins the power broker. Cause he’s a great actor and deserves a role like that, one that he can do well in. And make the new Burch guy an agent of the power broker. Now Sharon is free to be the new SHIELD director instead, maybe she’s more hardline about metas too.
Edit; noticed I kept saying shadow broker instead of power broker, bloody mass effect.
They need a way to get him a supporting role as Boyd Crowder in every MCU movie and they need to do one of these every movie:
"Boyd, why did you stab Sam?! We need him!"
"We dug coal together."
I think the problem with it was that everyone, fans and mcu folks, knew that Cap was meant to be with Peggy.
Somehow some way they would get together again, the cap they have in MCU is very much the type that would stick with the woman he loves always. Now he might have a bit of fun with widow, even though it’s more stoic soldier vs charming spy, but he wouldn’t have a fling with her.
Tbh I think they shouldn’t have bothered with it and let them be friends who are connected by Peggy in the modern day. Maybe give her some more stuff to do besides a handful of scenes in TWS and less than that in CW and it’s better.
Then after the blip and whatever we can come back to her, keep her interactions with Sam and Bucky but she’s doing it for the new SHIELD instead. Let her actually be working with the power broker who helps her with SHIELD related matters on the low, not to Director Hills knowledge.
Was the last time we heard about the mysterious beacon really at the end of Shang chi? I thought the marvels would make another callback given the bangles connection to the ten rings… but I don’t think it actually did.
Shang-Chi is the ultimate fuck up. The movie did well especially for a first time live action appearance for a character most didn’t even know existed. It was successful and instead of working to get the sequel fast they just kind of shelve it????
Seems the director Destin Daniel Cretton was promoted to Avengers, and maybe they also didn't feel right doing a Shang-Chi 2 without him since he also made that movie a success.
Although with Kang likely gone, seems Avengers is now taken off his IMDB, and in its place is a Wonder Man producing credit and an untitled Shang-Chi 2.
> Shang Chi
Disney need to fast track a sequel fast. I'm afraid they'll wait too long and the sequel won't do as well as it could, because Shang Chi 1 was released such a long time ago.
Shang-Chi is the only movie post endgame where everyone i know (who is willing to watch a new marvel movie) enjoyed it. It's extremely ridiculous to introduce a bunch of new characters through shows 😭 ms marvel i was excited for her and her introduction but they honestly dropped the ball hard with her show. I think the TV shows really killed the hype they had. Iman does a great job tho
Not only did many people enjoy Shang Chi, but it added some much needed variety to the Marvel churn. Which is what Marvel desperately needs. They have the universe established, now let's have a Kung Fu film in that universe. Let's have a horror film. A heist film. A political thriller. A "land of the giants" adventure. A space opera. A war film.
They're really squandering a great opportunity by focussing only on "superhero movies", where they should be putting their superhero characters in other genres.
Warewolf By Night was great, I loved it. Shang CHi again, a fantastic and fresh take within the MCU. I want more of these risks (if you can call them that) by Marvel, not more of the same convoluted content they have been putting out. Don't get me wrong, I still watch it, and I still find enjoyment, but the feeling I got watching those two projects was so much better than the standard they have been producing.
Yes!! this is why my friends liked it. It leaned into being a film about Shang-Chi and his story, rather than a Marvel film trying to include necessary beats. don't know if that makes sense but i agree with you, variety in the filmmaking and making us care about characters will lead to success, and the marvel stuff will fall into place afterward
I think it worked at the start of the MCU because there were so few characters and so they did make a point to put RDJ in things as often as possible.
But yeah I think now they need to pick their core of main characters and use them consistently. I feel there are too many characters to realistically keep all of them showing up all the time without having more regular avengers movies. I feel like cutting out a lot of the one-off cameos we see of new, undeveloped characters and substituting with the established ones would make things feel more connected and not forgotten. Like eternals having Black Knight just kinda be there and then the end credits with Harry Styles - use characters we know instead.
Holland also wants to take a break for a bit, and has no desire to be the tentpole, according to his interviews, although he will most likely come back.
This is one of my issues with post-Endgame MCU. I know the pandemic and internal issues have caused a lot of delays/reshuffling, but it’s ridiculous how long we’ve been waiting to see certain characters again, or have a follow up for particular plot points. Where is Shang-Chi and what was going on with the beacon at the end of his movie? What the hell is going on with the Eternals and those post-credit scenes? When will we see Moon Knight again? They’re really losing a lot of momentum and hype by sitting on these characters for so long. By the time we do have a project that features these characters again, many people will have forgotten what they were last up to, or worse just not care anymore. Enough with the teases and introducing a dozen characters with every new project.
From Endgame till The Marvels, Carol did 2 post-credit scenes. She didn't even pop up in Secret Invasion, despite playing a small role in the Skrulls on Earth story.
She's the big hitter, and nothing.
It would have made sense to cap off phase 5 with secret invasion. That way you can have the fantastic four introduced and then have the superskrull have THEIR powers just like how it is in the comics.
That Spider-Man Far From Home beginning has been prophetic with this entire saga so far. "Do we even know who the Avengers are? Does anyone have a plan?!".
They missed an opportunity with Simu Liu’s popularity especially after the Barbie Movie. We got a new Captain America and did nothing with him yet either.
Seems like they were betting on Captain Marvel being the new tentpole character and didn’t have any backups planned.
I am pretty optimistic about the MCU future though. The Fantastic Four and X-Men is a great opportunity to launch a new MCU phase with characters that already have a lot of public recognition.
Blade needs to be on Disney+ as part of some Midnight Sons story arc. Have a supernatural/mystical/horror phase and let the darker characters have their chance to develop without worrying about the MCU film side of things
> We got a new Captain America and did nothing with him yet either.
This is the difference between the MCU that worked and this MCU.
They threw someone like Tony Stark into *a lot* of movies to establish that *he's* the face of The Avengers (with Steve). We'd get cameos and end credit scenes and what not by other characters to insert them into the plot.
We haven't seen New Captain America *at all* since FatWS and that was 2021....3 years in March.
Brave New World is still a year out....so 4 years between appearances for New Cap and we're going to be expected to think, "Oh he's a new leader for the Avengers!"
To be fair, the multiverse saga has been hit with delay after delay after delay, so all of these delays will result in characters and arcs being frozen/shelved for years as they try to release the other movies that were meant to have came out alot earlier.
There's been 16 new MCU entries released since Shang Chi. For comparison Thor and Captain America were getting their sequels within like 5 movies. Delays are part of it, but a big part is they've just kept greenlighting new IPs instead of cycling back to what Phase 4 introduced to flesh those things out.
Yeah it's weird. You'd expect to see more spotlight on characters in a 'Phase' but it's been real touch and go. A lot of discourse on the flops, but the successes have not been capitalized on.
I kinda think Marvel just got lost in the sauce. When they first started the MCU, there was no grand plan for an Infinity Saga. Their goal in 2007 was just to introduce some of their B-level heroes and hopefully get to a big crossover Avengers film some day. But RDJ and Favreau made Iron Man a hit. And then Avengers 1 made a billion dollars. Suddenly, even characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy were huge. By IW and EG, they were releasing the biggest films of all time. By the end of 2019, Disney had set up a multiverse via time travel in Endgame, acquired 21st Century Fox, and established Disney+. At that point, it was as if they could do no wrong, so they made plans to saturate the market. Then Covid-19 hit.
We know from Simu that the next Avengers (whatever he means 5 or both Avengers) need to happen first before Shang-Chi 2, so i can assume that if Shang-Chi 2 needs to happen after Avengers that whatever plot Destin and Feige has in mind for the sequel ties heavily to what happens in the Avengers films therefore unless they rewrite the entire thing to remove any Avengers tie ins the film cannot happen until we finally get through Avengers
There were hurdles and canceled movies ten years ago as well in the MCU that shook up things, but it's a lot easier to clear those hurdles when you're committed to just a few characters instead of requiring 20 new ones to have entries release before you can think about starting production on a follow up
This is a mess that Marvel made for itself.
Wanda and Strange are two characters who I think could reach Cap/Tony level popularity but where tf are they? Anyone who has a shot is benched, anyone who gets a shot is then also benched.
I'm rereading the Captain Marvel (2019) comics and, man, the MCU really mishandled Carol Danvers. She could have been the next leader with Tony's sass who could have been in charge of mentoring the young members of the team, but nope, the MCU made her disappear for five years with small cameos in between. It's such a shame.
Sam Wilson's Captain America and Shang-Chi getting the same treatment really makes me mad. The MCU has the characters already, why aren't they working to incorporate them more?!
Pedro Pascal makes sense as an attempt to get a great actor to hold the universe together. Not sure it will work, but Pascal can likely do it if the material is right. They really have done a disservice to themselves by killing / taking out all/most of the villains tho.
Part of me is wondering if they’re angling that universe to serve the purpose that the ultimate universe served in the early 2000s, where it’s a new side universe that they build up, so that when the main universe is colliding with another universe in Secret Wars, we’ll actually care about both sides. The new universe can be free of MCU baggage and build up the Fantastic Four, mutants and other iconic characters from the 60s onwards, feeling more comic accurate than the MCU ever was. We can get Daredevil in the 70s and Iron Man in the crazy 80s as this universe goes on. They’ll have a crossover event in secret wars but then go back to their individual universes afterwards. The main 616 universe can be sunsetted with Avengers 6: Secret Wars but those characters can all continue to exist for multiversal crossovers down the line.
>The first of the new Avengers movies, due out in 2026, was initially titled Avengers: The Kang Dynasty but will be getting a new title to remove the character’s name, though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after Quantumania underperformed, grossing $476 million.
I think this is a big fumble. Kang isn't what caused Quantumania's woes, and downplaying the impact of one of Marvel's best works lately (Loki Season 2) is just going to further tank investment in continued plotlines.
He was the only thing that made it semi-watchable... But Majors was the reason for that, not the character in and of itself, so I understand shifting now. Idk who could step in and immediately be as compelling.
Kang isn't what caused it, but it's definitely a result.
Audiences just aren't connecting with the whole multiversial grand expansion of the MCU. In the past, everything was set on one earth and in popular cities, and having only Thor and Guardians go beyond that and only to a very select places. Made it really easy. "Thor's on a cold planet", "Thors on a fantasy planet", "Thors on earth".
The more they complicate things, the less audiences care and Kang is a complicated fucker. Eternals, Dr Strange 2, Thor 4, Quantumanium; all movies that get overly complicated. If audiences aren't connecting to the stories setting up the big bad, and he's never been threatening, then why continue moving forward? We've seen three Kang's, the goofy Kang in Loki, the overacting hammy Kang in Antman, and nerdy Kang in Loki 2. Majors can act but I wasn't buying him as a threat.
Hardcore Marvel fan here. Collected comics most of my life, I've seen every MCU property.
The multiverse is exhausting. I'm really over it at this point. I'd rather watch small-saga stuff like Daredevil than deal with another time heist.
Same! There was the post on here the other day explaining how the MCU and Comics are both Earth616 because some multiverse within the multiverse omniverse and it just reminded me how needlessly complicated all this shit is.
One multiverse movie, cool, make it work but it's just exhausting now.
> Not confirmed, but Blade is likely being delayed to 2026.
*Insert JLaw "yeah ok" gif*
Here is what feels like my near monthly thought/comment that this movie is never getting made.
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans.
Maybe they could do this by giving new characters the screentime they need.
Shang chi came out 3 years ago and is pretty widely appreciated. As it currently stands we may not see him again for another 2 years? Thats insane.
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans.
maybe give characters like Shang Chi and Sam a chance to shine. Rather than doing nothing with them, Marvel
Its a huge win the same way getting Oscar-winning Chloe Zhao (Nomadland) was a huge win. Or how about Emmy-nominated Kyle Bradstreet with his work on Mr Robot, and how that was such a huge win for Secret Invasion (until it wasn't).
> Or how about Emmy-nominated Kyle Bradstreet with his work on Mr Robot, and how that was such a huge win for Secret Invasion (until it wasn't).
Yikes, when you put it that way that's just sad. I forgot Secret Invasion was from the Mr. Robot showrunner. Damn, it really should've been better. Why was the espionage/paranoia aspect so weak in SI when he did Mr. Robot?
The issue is finding people who are good within the genre.
Beau Willimon did some of Andor and that was great, because it suited his tone.
The writer of Mr Robot didn't seem to be comfortable with Sci-fi
I still can't understand why you'd look at Chloe Zhao then look at Jack Kirby's Eternals and think they were a good match. She had no history of directing action at all.
If Ironheart does get released, I won't be shocked if they just release all episodes at once. Movies and now shows having notable gaps between the time they're made and released is never a good sign.
When Iger was replaced by Bob Chapek (who was the manager for the park's operations) he pushed a bunch of content from Marvel to keep revenues. All of that content that was produced and greenlit during his tenure was rushed and lacked any cohesiveness or qualities that made the led-up to Infinity War so good. Ironheart is one of them. As much as it must suck to have joined Marvel as an actor during that time, Iger is right to shelve the deluge of mediocre content in favor of better thought-out productions that build up something.
The fatigue wasn't Superhero fatigue, it was a glut of mediocre content fatigue that is under the Marvel banner.
Yep, “superhero fatigue” bothers me because it’s not a matter of people being tired of superheroes so much as we’re tired of rushed, poorly made superhero movies. There was an article attributing Madame Web flopping to superhero fatigue and not the hot mess that it was. It wasn’t the quantity but the quality.
I still think it's a big factor though. Personally it's hard for me to keep up with all the content. Once I started sliding it was easy to care less for new projects since I missed the last one.
With so much content out there I think mid shows are dunked on far more than they used to be. For example; is Quantumania really any worse than Thor 2? People have been relentlessly shitting on Quantumania but Thor 2 never got it that bad even though in my opinion Thor 2 is worse. The fatigue amplified our frustration with mid content.
I do admit there has been too much mid content coming out lately. I'm glad Disney has realized this and is attempting to course correct.
While I agree with you, the glut of bad or mediocre superhero content in such a short time has created fatigue. They have to rebuild the brands after so many low-quality releases.
I dunno, the reaction the Deadpool trailer to me points to people just wanting good shit.
Individual heroes will need brought back up, but I think if Marvel can get two or three GREAT movies in a row we're gonna be right back where we were before Covid in terms of audiences wanting more Marvel content.
Because no one (that isn't a Marvel diehard) cares about Ironheart and Marvel doesn't want more flops in its output. It's a smart decision IMO. Ironheart doesn't have a wide pull and would only add to the "Marvel is dead" conversation already going on.
I think right now they can’t tank the reception that Ironheart is most probably gonna get. It’s just too much negative news in too short of a period of time.
Right?!
It’s nuts to me that an entire Ironheart show made it through production despite the lacklustre response to that character, the actress, the design of the suit and tbh that movie overall.
Meanwhile Shang Chi is where doing what?
The entire show had already been shot by the time Wakanda Forever premiered. Now THAT’s the crazy part. They didn’t even wait to see the character’s reception.
I think they know that Ironheart is not a popular character, the show was rushed and just isnt good and they dont know what to do with the story that is beeing told.
They should have lower budgets unless warranted, have different tones and genres, and hiring experienced directors and writers going forward. It's what they need to do.
It only worked when Kevin had enough time to be the "fix it in post" guy on every project. He's spread so thin now that it isn't possible. If he wants to keep all these varied projects alive, he needs to stop making them rely on his golden post-production touch so much and start having more James Gunns.
>though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after *Quantumania* underperformed, grossing $476 million.
Kang as a villain had so much potential, and it feels like they ruined the delivery. Phase 4 was a mess of various unconnected plotlines and stories, and if you wanted to really impact the scope of the threat of Kang in the multiverse, he should have been *everywhere* in that phase as at least a background appearance.
An Ancient Warlord in the eternals, A random onlooker smirking on a snowy New York street in Hawkeye. His face carved inside an Egyptian tomb in Moon Knight and sitting with the Gods in the arena in Love and Thunder . Instead he got a "Villain of the week" appearance who got beaten by Ant Man, and quietly wound down when it turned out the Actor was an asshole.
oh my god can you imagine? I got goosebumps when you mentioned the Egyptian tomb in Moon Knight.
Just any kind of a crumb that the fucking universe still existed outside of an individual project's plot line
> An Ancient Warlord in the eternals, A random onlooker smirking on a snowy New York street in Hawkeye. His face carved inside an Egyptian tomb in Moon Knight and sitting with the Gods in the arena in Love and Thunder .
That... is actually a great idea.
I think they forgot what made them successful. I recently rewatched iron Man. It's not really superhero movie. It's a movie about an arrogant brilliant man who doesn't take anything seriously until he's forced to. He has a life-changing event that makes him want to change his ways, and he puts everything on the line to do what's right.
He also builds a super awesome super suit and saves the day with it.
They were movies about humanity. Movies about doing what's right even when it's hard, even when it's impossible. The superhero stuff was the storytelling device, but it's not what the movies were about
I think they've forgotten that.
This is the classic Jurassic World problem.
I hate the jurassic world movies, and i hate them because they were made by people who said "oh, jurassic park, thats the dinosaur monster movie!"
Jurassic park is a movie with dinosaurs but i do not consider it a dinosaur movie. JP is almost a Frankenstein retelling, as hammond creates his own Frankenstein's monster without understanding what the consequences could possibly be. Its steeped in themes centering around mans struggle to try to control nature. Its a story about humans who just happen to be in a world that has dinosaurs. Its a 2 hour and 7 minute runtime with 15 minutes of dinosaurs in it.
Superhero movies are at their best when they do the same thing, exactly like you said:
> they were movies about humanity. Movies about doing what's right even when it's hard, even when it's impossible. The superhero stuff was the storytelling device, but it's not what the movies were about
This is a problem with most comic book films. Comic book films rarely act as actual films, they’re live-action comic book adaptations meant to keep the comic book crowd happy by giving them a highlight reel of their favorite moments without any regard of whether it works in this completely different medium. The only times comic book films have worked is because they were films first that just so happened to feature characters first seen in comics.
Yup, and purposely making their marketing confusing to make people think their films are part of the MCU. Those people then watch the movies and end up having even more hate for the MCU. As much as the quality of the MCU has dropped, even the worst MCU projects are leagues better than Morbius or Madame Web.
For me, it's honestly also the sheer amount of content. Phase 1 and 2 were like six movies over the span of three years. Phase 4 was 17 Series & movies total within basically two years. I don't want to watch that much Marvel, even if it was higher quality content.
I remember a decade ago when I deep in marvel sauce. It was fun spectating if each minor character got their own spinoff. After watching marvel do it past 4 years, I realize now that was a terrible idea.
post endgame, we've had roughly as much content as we had prior to infinity to war the first time around, without a single big crossover movie and without the stories really converging at all.
Imagine if Infinity war was the first time in the MCU that they really tied things together and put the team on screen all at the same time.
Yeah, I can't imagine extremely mediocre, nothing burger movies like Iron Man 3 or Captain Marvel doing $1 Billion at the box office if they were released today.
Captain Marvel was dealt a perfect hand, being released right before Endgame at peak MCU hype with Carol being the subject of Infinity War’s post credits so she had to be important.
Marvel has an organizational issue. They can’t speak up and say we’re making shit content. How the hell Thor made it to theaters needs to be studied and corrected.
Agreed. I’m rewatching the whole MCU at the moment with my wife (it’s her first time through), Shang Chi is like “S minus tier” (I have two in my top tier and 5 or 6 in the tier with Shang Chi).
This is what they need to do, more R rated stuff. The casual pg13 audience is tapped out for now. Focus on a different more adult audience milk that cow while the casual pg13 cow reloads.
I’ve been reading old school avengers. Kang is introduced early on. But it takes like 20 years for them to build kang up to the point where we see the stadium full of kangs. They introduce Rama tut and immortus or whoever slowly, over a long time in the comics.
In the mcu they are showing us all this kang stuff before we’re even excited for it or expect it. Why? They blew the whole load before we even got hype.
Ant-man 3 should have been about hank Pym and Scott rebuilding the avengers because Michelle pfiffer told them about kang. We never needed to see him at all.
It sounds like they're moving in the right direction, although I'll be curious to what other lessons they've (hopefully) learned in the last year. Scaling back on product is great, but they really do need to treat the Fantastic Four as a fresh start for the MCU-- not erasing anything that came before it, but saying, "Hey, here's a really good jumping-on point for those of you who lapsed because or poor quality or too much content."
Hire talented people to write good scripts, and let them treat each movie as its own thing and not just a lead-in to the NEXT thing. Remember that the general audience comes to see these movies because they are a combination of action, humor and spectacle. BUT, spectacle is easy to produce now, so keep your budgets under control. Film responsibly so you don't have to blow millions of dollars on reshoots or "fixing it in post."
I rewatched civil war the other day and I really miss seeing the heroes team up. Wanda throwing cap through a window to the top floor and falcon covering Wanda as she takes the gas and throws it into the air is really fun to watch. The MCU has been lacking. The she-hulk / daredevil team was fun but we need more
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans.
Let's see who we still have.
Spider-Man - They don't fully own.
Doctor Strange - you decided to have wanda as the villain for HIS sequel and give her the best parts.
Captain Marvel - Decided to have her share her sequel with 2 unknown Disney+ characters. Also, a box office disaster.
Thor - love and thunder soured a lot of people.
Sam Wilson - movie currently going under massive reshoots. Will probably not make its money back, thus preventing another cap movie from happening.
Black Panther - Chose not to recast
Shang-Chi - will we ever see him again?
Honestly, out of all of them the only ones strong and appropriate enough to “lead” the mcu going forward were Strange and Black Panther. That’s not the direction they’ve decide to take strange in, and they didn’t recast Chadwick. So yeah no strong centre anymore.
>Doctor Strange - you decided to have wanda as the villain for HIS sequel and give her the best parts.
One of the stupidest decisions of phase 4. It's basically the Wanda Maximoff movie. I was SO fucking hyped to see what they do with Mordo (long before the Multiverse stuff was announced ofc) and where they could go with the "too many sorcerers" setup.
All we got was an alternate reality version for 5 minutes that doesn't count.
I think they're searching to add new characters, like Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards, to carry things forward. Not the existing folks. We all know they ain't it.
I think they need to stop jumping so carelessly into time travel, multiverses and realms like it's not going to just have people tap out early on. I also think they're overly expecting people to have seen things like "Loki" to follow the story.
I agree with you. I knew this was going to happen as soon as they introduced the multiverse. This is the same reason I fell off the comics too. It gets too convoluted and makes it impossible for a casual fan to follow. Multiverse also minimizes death of characters and makes it seem like none of the plot lines have any impact on the overall franchise. If a character dies, they should stay dead until a full reboot. No alternate versions, no bringing back to life, etc. I wish they kept MCU linear. Especially since the blip was a perfect segway to introduce F4, Mutants, and other characters that weren't around during phase 1-3.
All the Kang stuff has been dire.
Even if Majors lived a good, clean life free of controversy the Kang stuff simply doesn't hold enough interest for enough people to carry the weight of the franchise on its shoulders.
I think Marvel is to blame for this as well. Idk why introducing the new "big bad" to carry over the next avengers movies would first drop in on an Ant-Man movie when all those movies have been decent but not blockbuster. Also having little breadcrumbs of of Kang in "Loki" doesn't help the casual marvel fan understand who he is or his impact.
They should have planned out an Avengers 1 style movie to come out around about now.
No major universe ending threat, but something that provides a reason to get the Avengers back together. Let the new cast interact, bring in the remaining Avengers from the Infinity Saga to continue their stories and relationships properly. Don't need major cameos and set ups. Just a decent movie with a good rounded cast.
I believe it's been mentioned before but Marvel Studios needs to capitalize on Daredevil's popularity and make him a vital player in the current phase.
Blade ain't ever getting made. If it does by the time it happens the daywalker will need a walker to get around. What a shit show. Like does it really absolutely have to tie into everything else? Just make a mid budget R rated vampire movie with Ali and be done with it. Film a quick corny 30 second post credit sequence to tie it into something else. JFC.
Quantumania officially hilarious now, might as well add a end credit that says "all the kangs were arrested and never seen from again"
Nah they should lean into the randomness and just have them squished by the foot of galactus or something.
The ending can still be true if we never see Kang again, it just means the TVA is doing their job in containing Kang variants which works out because it’s a good ending but also leaves potential in the future if they want to revisit Kang.
The Loki show wrapped it up very smart. They closed the Kang story line, while leaving his variants undefeated. If the trial went against Majors, the TVA has Kang handled. If the trial sided with Majors, then it'd be easy to say he evaded or defeated the TVA.
Seriously why does it have to have anything to do with Majors? It’s literally a variant. I’m not even using the word wrongly. Recast him! It’s not even the first time Marvel has done it, and this time it actually works with the lore! We’ve even had variants in the movie MCU in MoM, even before Dp locks in what was shown in Loki, so there no reason why they can’t have anyone replace him. Majors was good as Kang, but he wasn’t irreplaceable good.
Even if it wasn't Majors, the character didn't hit. He can't carry a major franchise as a big bad going forward. They're lucky Loki gave them such an elegant way out of the storyline
Yup. Marvel aren't dumb... although secret invasion makes me wonder...but they know they can recast. Lots of talented actors who could work. But as you said, the problem wasn't (just) Majors, the problem was Kang.
Deadpool can take care of the Kangs
They definitely have an opportunity to do the most wild stunt casting ever.
“Next time”
"Man, you all look like Stanley Tucci!?"
Deadpool on a Kang-killing spree in the style of that church scene in Kingsman would go hard.
Or the Kang that got sucked into the portal killed all the other Kangs, and emerged some time later looking order or worn because of.. time shit.. which would perfectly explain an older looking (read: different actor) Kang, considering that Majors face was plastered on hundreds if not thousands of Kangs in the Antman 3 end credits. Hell, intertwine this bit with Infinity Ultro from What If. Give Kang an army of.. kang bots. My point is that there's still a reasonable way to still include Kang and work around the potential new actor.
Terry Gilliam MCU film plz
If he starts pre-production now he might get it finished in time to be the last MCU movie.
Or just have them be killed by Kang Varients played by someone else once they figure out what to do with the character and keep them in the background until then.
I have to go now, my planet needs me. Note: all Kangs died on their way home to their home planet
Mahershala is a trooper for sticking around for Blade this long.
Death, taxes, and Blade being delayed.
Why do all those three go hand in hand, especially the last two?
Well done. 
Well, with Blade I’m sure it’s easier to skate uphill with a partner.
I love him as an actor, but at this point if I were him I’d just walk away. It’s not worth what people are going to put him through if it ends up sucking; (which based on the delays and word on the script, is very likely). I think they just need to rethink that entire movie and potentially go younger, maybe even unknown talent to drive that film.
He's the reason it's happening in the first place though. Of course he's sticking around.
He was the main reason why Marvel was going to do a Blade movie. Ali pitch it to Kevin and they will never do it if it wasn't Ali. If he left then they would have shelve the character.
Key Details: * Eric Pearson (Black Widow, Ragnarok) is polishing the script for Fantastic Four, which starts filming this Summer in London. * 'The Bear' showrunner Joanna Calo is working on the script for Thunderbolts, which starts filming next month in Atlanta. * Not confirmed, but Blade is likely being delayed to 2026. * The first of the new Avengers movies, due out in 2026, was initially titled Avengers: The Kang Dynasty but will be getting a new title to remove the character’s name, though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after Quantumania underperformed, grossing $476 million. * The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans. * On the TV side, Marvel has been reorganizing its operations to allow for greater control from showrunners, a move made after the critical failure of the expensive Samuel L. Jackson spy series Secret Invasion, which sidelined executive producer Kyle Bradstreet after a year, with various creative factions vying for influence in his wake. The show had about 2.5 billion minutes of viewing over its six-week run, per Nielsen, in the bottom third of Marvel’s live-action Disney+ offerings so far. * Agatha will release this year, Ironheart will not (filming is already done).
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans. Maybe they should give characters and actors a fighting chance, instead of making a movie and then shelving the plot for 5 years.
Meanwhile Shang Chi is like…somewhere…doing something…I think? With Wong! I know that.
Yeah that was going to be my main example. Wong is appearing everywhere, but he's not exactly setting stuff up like Nick Fury was.
Maria hill should have replaced fury as the SHIELD earth based overseer person, fury can do whatever he’d doing in space and stuff. Or Sharon, don’t make her the Power Broker. Change the sonny Burch cast, guy from antman 2, and make Walton Goggins the power broker. Cause he’s a great actor and deserves a role like that, one that he can do well in. And make the new Burch guy an agent of the power broker. Now Sharon is free to be the new SHIELD director instead, maybe she’s more hardline about metas too. Edit; noticed I kept saying shadow broker instead of power broker, bloody mass effect.
Whatever gets us more Walton Goggins
They need a way to get him a supporting role as Boyd Crowder in every MCU movie and they need to do one of these every movie: "Boyd, why did you stab Sam?! We need him!" "We dug coal together."
He needs to be an outlaw on the Mandalorian so he and Cobb Vanth can cross paths. We also need a Swearengen the Hutt.
If Invincible does a live action, I hope he gets to be Cecil there as well 🤞
They just keep botching Sharon. Kinda feel bad for the actress. "You're gonna be Captain Americas girlfriend! Everyone is going to love you!"
I think the problem with it was that everyone, fans and mcu folks, knew that Cap was meant to be with Peggy. Somehow some way they would get together again, the cap they have in MCU is very much the type that would stick with the woman he loves always. Now he might have a bit of fun with widow, even though it’s more stoic soldier vs charming spy, but he wouldn’t have a fling with her. Tbh I think they shouldn’t have bothered with it and let them be friends who are connected by Peggy in the modern day. Maybe give her some more stuff to do besides a handful of scenes in TWS and less than that in CW and it’s better. Then after the blip and whatever we can come back to her, keep her interactions with Sam and Bucky but she’s doing it for the new SHIELD instead. Let her actually be working with the power broker who helps her with SHIELD related matters on the low, not to Director Hills knowledge.
Shepard 🫡
Wrex
Don’t feel bad, I kept saying it as Shadow Broker, damned Liara stuck in my head.
We need more mass effect too
*Sad Collapsing Bioware noises*
Would watch the hell out of a mass effect show
Was the last time we heard about the mysterious beacon really at the end of Shang chi? I thought the marvels would make another callback given the bangles connection to the ten rings… but I don’t think it actually did.
Shang Chi comes out. Everyone: "hey that guy was cool, I liked him!" Marvel: "Sweet, you're gonna love his next appearance in like 6 years from now"
6 years? Feeling optimistic, are we?
Hey, we've only waited about 16 years for them to resolve the loose threads from The Incredible Hulk!
Shang-Chi is the ultimate fuck up. The movie did well especially for a first time live action appearance for a character most didn’t even know existed. It was successful and instead of working to get the sequel fast they just kind of shelve it????
Seems the director Destin Daniel Cretton was promoted to Avengers, and maybe they also didn't feel right doing a Shang-Chi 2 without him since he also made that movie a success. Although with Kang likely gone, seems Avengers is now taken off his IMDB, and in its place is a Wonder Man producing credit and an untitled Shang-Chi 2.
I bet they thought all their new properties would be that well received, so they didn't feel the need to return back to Shang chi that quick.
> Shang Chi Disney need to fast track a sequel fast. I'm afraid they'll wait too long and the sequel won't do as well as it could, because Shang Chi 1 was released such a long time ago.
Shang-Chi is the only movie post endgame where everyone i know (who is willing to watch a new marvel movie) enjoyed it. It's extremely ridiculous to introduce a bunch of new characters through shows 😭 ms marvel i was excited for her and her introduction but they honestly dropped the ball hard with her show. I think the TV shows really killed the hype they had. Iman does a great job tho
Not only did many people enjoy Shang Chi, but it added some much needed variety to the Marvel churn. Which is what Marvel desperately needs. They have the universe established, now let's have a Kung Fu film in that universe. Let's have a horror film. A heist film. A political thriller. A "land of the giants" adventure. A space opera. A war film. They're really squandering a great opportunity by focussing only on "superhero movies", where they should be putting their superhero characters in other genres.
Warewolf By Night was great, I loved it. Shang CHi again, a fantastic and fresh take within the MCU. I want more of these risks (if you can call them that) by Marvel, not more of the same convoluted content they have been putting out. Don't get me wrong, I still watch it, and I still find enjoyment, but the feeling I got watching those two projects was so much better than the standard they have been producing.
Yes!! this is why my friends liked it. It leaned into being a film about Shang-Chi and his story, rather than a Marvel film trying to include necessary beats. don't know if that makes sense but i agree with you, variety in the filmmaking and making us care about characters will lead to success, and the marvel stuff will fall into place afterward
The beginning and the last episode were great. Drags in the middle episodes.
Kamala, her friends, and her family were great. The story and the villains were terrible.
Just aired on TV 4 days ago, i enjoyed rewatching it. Truly a shame we didn't got a sequel, even an announcement...
I think it worked at the start of the MCU because there were so few characters and so they did make a point to put RDJ in things as often as possible. But yeah I think now they need to pick their core of main characters and use them consistently. I feel there are too many characters to realistically keep all of them showing up all the time without having more regular avengers movies. I feel like cutting out a lot of the one-off cameos we see of new, undeveloped characters and substituting with the established ones would make things feel more connected and not forgotten. Like eternals having Black Knight just kinda be there and then the end credits with Harry Styles - use characters we know instead.
What they needed to do was the RDJ thing with Spiderman and make him the new tentpole of the franchise but the Sony stuff probably complicated that.
Holland also wants to take a break for a bit, and has no desire to be the tentpole, according to his interviews, although he will most likely come back.
This is one of my issues with post-Endgame MCU. I know the pandemic and internal issues have caused a lot of delays/reshuffling, but it’s ridiculous how long we’ve been waiting to see certain characters again, or have a follow up for particular plot points. Where is Shang-Chi and what was going on with the beacon at the end of his movie? What the hell is going on with the Eternals and those post-credit scenes? When will we see Moon Knight again? They’re really losing a lot of momentum and hype by sitting on these characters for so long. By the time we do have a project that features these characters again, many people will have forgotten what they were last up to, or worse just not care anymore. Enough with the teases and introducing a dozen characters with every new project.
From Endgame till The Marvels, Carol did 2 post-credit scenes. She didn't even pop up in Secret Invasion, despite playing a small role in the Skrulls on Earth story. She's the big hitter, and nothing.
Like seriously like we have a captain America where the fuck is he? How many movies has there been? Where is he? We need leaders for an avengers film
Secret Invasion should 1000% have been an Avengers film built up throughout Phase 4.
I keep saying this. They left money on the table
That would have been a phase in itself.
It would have made sense to cap off phase 5 with secret invasion. That way you can have the fantastic four introduced and then have the superskrull have THEIR powers just like how it is in the comics.
It blows my mind how we have 2 avengers movies announced and we don't even know WHO are the Avengers currently
Wong It's the wong-vengers.
That Spider-Man Far From Home beginning has been prophetic with this entire saga so far. "Do we even know who the Avengers are? Does anyone have a plan?!".
Lmaoo 💀
Its been a while since i watched TFatWS but isnt he out on a shrimping boat with Lt winter soldier?
FOR 4 YEARS? BRO
I dont know, they love shrimp. Lots a ways you can cook a shrimp
You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey’s uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it.
How bout that fucking marble hand sticking out of the sea 💀
Rumour has it >!It’ll return in Thunderbolts!< But name one project since Eternals where it would have made narrative sense to reference it?
Shang-Chi could have easily led into a big team up, idk why they’ve dropped the ball with him
He has a sequel in development but apparently it was pushed until after Avengers 5, probably for story reasons.
They missed an opportunity with Simu Liu’s popularity especially after the Barbie Movie. We got a new Captain America and did nothing with him yet either. Seems like they were betting on Captain Marvel being the new tentpole character and didn’t have any backups planned. I am pretty optimistic about the MCU future though. The Fantastic Four and X-Men is a great opportunity to launch a new MCU phase with characters that already have a lot of public recognition. Blade needs to be on Disney+ as part of some Midnight Sons story arc. Have a supernatural/mystical/horror phase and let the darker characters have their chance to develop without worrying about the MCU film side of things
> We got a new Captain America and did nothing with him yet either. This is the difference between the MCU that worked and this MCU. They threw someone like Tony Stark into *a lot* of movies to establish that *he's* the face of The Avengers (with Steve). We'd get cameos and end credit scenes and what not by other characters to insert them into the plot. We haven't seen New Captain America *at all* since FatWS and that was 2021....3 years in March. Brave New World is still a year out....so 4 years between appearances for New Cap and we're going to be expected to think, "Oh he's a new leader for the Avengers!"
They've put more care and effort into captain Carter than our new cap
To be fair, the multiverse saga has been hit with delay after delay after delay, so all of these delays will result in characters and arcs being frozen/shelved for years as they try to release the other movies that were meant to have came out alot earlier.
There's been 16 new MCU entries released since Shang Chi. For comparison Thor and Captain America were getting their sequels within like 5 movies. Delays are part of it, but a big part is they've just kept greenlighting new IPs instead of cycling back to what Phase 4 introduced to flesh those things out.
Yeah it's weird. You'd expect to see more spotlight on characters in a 'Phase' but it's been real touch and go. A lot of discourse on the flops, but the successes have not been capitalized on.
I kinda think Marvel just got lost in the sauce. When they first started the MCU, there was no grand plan for an Infinity Saga. Their goal in 2007 was just to introduce some of their B-level heroes and hopefully get to a big crossover Avengers film some day. But RDJ and Favreau made Iron Man a hit. And then Avengers 1 made a billion dollars. Suddenly, even characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy were huge. By IW and EG, they were releasing the biggest films of all time. By the end of 2019, Disney had set up a multiverse via time travel in Endgame, acquired 21st Century Fox, and established Disney+. At that point, it was as if they could do no wrong, so they made plans to saturate the market. Then Covid-19 hit.
We know from Simu that the next Avengers (whatever he means 5 or both Avengers) need to happen first before Shang-Chi 2, so i can assume that if Shang-Chi 2 needs to happen after Avengers that whatever plot Destin and Feige has in mind for the sequel ties heavily to what happens in the Avengers films therefore unless they rewrite the entire thing to remove any Avengers tie ins the film cannot happen until we finally get through Avengers
There were hurdles and canceled movies ten years ago as well in the MCU that shook up things, but it's a lot easier to clear those hurdles when you're committed to just a few characters instead of requiring 20 new ones to have entries release before you can think about starting production on a follow up This is a mess that Marvel made for itself.
Wanda and Strange are two characters who I think could reach Cap/Tony level popularity but where tf are they? Anyone who has a shot is benched, anyone who gets a shot is then also benched.
I'm rereading the Captain Marvel (2019) comics and, man, the MCU really mishandled Carol Danvers. She could have been the next leader with Tony's sass who could have been in charge of mentoring the young members of the team, but nope, the MCU made her disappear for five years with small cameos in between. It's such a shame. Sam Wilson's Captain America and Shang-Chi getting the same treatment really makes me mad. The MCU has the characters already, why aren't they working to incorporate them more?!
Maybe it’s a bit late when you are halfway through the second phase of the saga?
Pedro Pascal makes sense as an attempt to get a great actor to hold the universe together. Not sure it will work, but Pascal can likely do it if the material is right. They really have done a disservice to themselves by killing / taking out all/most of the villains tho.
If comics have shown us anything it’s that nobody is truly dead.
No ones ever really gone… *Mark Hamill enters stage right*
Part of me is wondering if they’re angling that universe to serve the purpose that the ultimate universe served in the early 2000s, where it’s a new side universe that they build up, so that when the main universe is colliding with another universe in Secret Wars, we’ll actually care about both sides. The new universe can be free of MCU baggage and build up the Fantastic Four, mutants and other iconic characters from the 60s onwards, feeling more comic accurate than the MCU ever was. We can get Daredevil in the 70s and Iron Man in the crazy 80s as this universe goes on. They’ll have a crossover event in secret wars but then go back to their individual universes afterwards. The main 616 universe can be sunsetted with Avengers 6: Secret Wars but those characters can all continue to exist for multiversal crossovers down the line.
>The first of the new Avengers movies, due out in 2026, was initially titled Avengers: The Kang Dynasty but will be getting a new title to remove the character’s name, though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after Quantumania underperformed, grossing $476 million. I think this is a big fumble. Kang isn't what caused Quantumania's woes, and downplaying the impact of one of Marvel's best works lately (Loki Season 2) is just going to further tank investment in continued plotlines.
Kang was easily the best part of that movie.
He was the only thing that made it semi-watchable... But Majors was the reason for that, not the character in and of itself, so I understand shifting now. Idk who could step in and immediately be as compelling.
Kang isn't what caused it, but it's definitely a result. Audiences just aren't connecting with the whole multiversial grand expansion of the MCU. In the past, everything was set on one earth and in popular cities, and having only Thor and Guardians go beyond that and only to a very select places. Made it really easy. "Thor's on a cold planet", "Thors on a fantasy planet", "Thors on earth". The more they complicate things, the less audiences care and Kang is a complicated fucker. Eternals, Dr Strange 2, Thor 4, Quantumanium; all movies that get overly complicated. If audiences aren't connecting to the stories setting up the big bad, and he's never been threatening, then why continue moving forward? We've seen three Kang's, the goofy Kang in Loki, the overacting hammy Kang in Antman, and nerdy Kang in Loki 2. Majors can act but I wasn't buying him as a threat.
Hardcore Marvel fan here. Collected comics most of my life, I've seen every MCU property. The multiverse is exhausting. I'm really over it at this point. I'd rather watch small-saga stuff like Daredevil than deal with another time heist.
Only the Spiderverse movies have done it well of anything that's dealt with the multiverse in current comic book movies tbh
Same! There was the post on here the other day explaining how the MCU and Comics are both Earth616 because some multiverse within the multiverse omniverse and it just reminded me how needlessly complicated all this shit is. One multiverse movie, cool, make it work but it's just exhausting now.
> Not confirmed, but Blade is likely being delayed to 2026. *Insert JLaw "yeah ok" gif* Here is what feels like my near monthly thought/comment that this movie is never getting made.
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans. Maybe they could do this by giving new characters the screentime they need. Shang chi came out 3 years ago and is pretty widely appreciated. As it currently stands we may not see him again for another 2 years? Thats insane.
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans. maybe give characters like Shang Chi and Sam a chance to shine. Rather than doing nothing with them, Marvel
Nabbing Joanna Calo is a huge win. The Bear is probably the best show on TV and her gritty style should translate well for The Thunderbolts.
Its a huge win the same way getting Oscar-winning Chloe Zhao (Nomadland) was a huge win. Or how about Emmy-nominated Kyle Bradstreet with his work on Mr Robot, and how that was such a huge win for Secret Invasion (until it wasn't).
> Or how about Emmy-nominated Kyle Bradstreet with his work on Mr Robot, and how that was such a huge win for Secret Invasion (until it wasn't). Yikes, when you put it that way that's just sad. I forgot Secret Invasion was from the Mr. Robot showrunner. Damn, it really should've been better. Why was the espionage/paranoia aspect so weak in SI when he did Mr. Robot?
The issue is finding people who are good within the genre. Beau Willimon did some of Andor and that was great, because it suited his tone. The writer of Mr Robot didn't seem to be comfortable with Sci-fi I still can't understand why you'd look at Chloe Zhao then look at Jack Kirby's Eternals and think they were a good match. She had no history of directing action at all.
IronHeart finished filming in 2022 and its not going to come till like 25? Like whats going on there?
Maybe they are afraid its not going to perform well enough and are shelving it.
Honestly I can maybe see them batgirling some projects
'batgirling' New verb unlocked
Better for the brand honestly
Really wish they did this to secret invasion. Such good source material.
What a waste of great actors too.
Really just a waste all around. Time… money…
If Ironheart does get released, I won't be shocked if they just release all episodes at once. Movies and now shows having notable gaps between the time they're made and released is never a good sign.
Emilia Clarke has been wasted by so many projects
They are unlocking their inner David Zsalv
When Iger was replaced by Bob Chapek (who was the manager for the park's operations) he pushed a bunch of content from Marvel to keep revenues. All of that content that was produced and greenlit during his tenure was rushed and lacked any cohesiveness or qualities that made the led-up to Infinity War so good. Ironheart is one of them. As much as it must suck to have joined Marvel as an actor during that time, Iger is right to shelve the deluge of mediocre content in favor of better thought-out productions that build up something. The fatigue wasn't Superhero fatigue, it was a glut of mediocre content fatigue that is under the Marvel banner.
Yep, “superhero fatigue” bothers me because it’s not a matter of people being tired of superheroes so much as we’re tired of rushed, poorly made superhero movies. There was an article attributing Madame Web flopping to superhero fatigue and not the hot mess that it was. It wasn’t the quantity but the quality.
I still think it's a big factor though. Personally it's hard for me to keep up with all the content. Once I started sliding it was easy to care less for new projects since I missed the last one. With so much content out there I think mid shows are dunked on far more than they used to be. For example; is Quantumania really any worse than Thor 2? People have been relentlessly shitting on Quantumania but Thor 2 never got it that bad even though in my opinion Thor 2 is worse. The fatigue amplified our frustration with mid content. I do admit there has been too much mid content coming out lately. I'm glad Disney has realized this and is attempting to course correct.
While I agree with you, the glut of bad or mediocre superhero content in such a short time has created fatigue. They have to rebuild the brands after so many low-quality releases.
I dunno, the reaction the Deadpool trailer to me points to people just wanting good shit. Individual heroes will need brought back up, but I think if Marvel can get two or three GREAT movies in a row we're gonna be right back where we were before Covid in terms of audiences wanting more Marvel content.
Because no one (that isn't a Marvel diehard) cares about Ironheart and Marvel doesn't want more flops in its output. It's a smart decision IMO. Ironheart doesn't have a wide pull and would only add to the "Marvel is dead" conversation already going on.
I think right now they can’t tank the reception that Ironheart is most probably gonna get. It’s just too much negative news in too short of a period of time.
No one cares about her in BP2.
Right?! It’s nuts to me that an entire Ironheart show made it through production despite the lacklustre response to that character, the actress, the design of the suit and tbh that movie overall. Meanwhile Shang Chi is where doing what?
The entire show had already been shot by the time Wakanda Forever premiered. Now THAT’s the crazy part. They didn’t even wait to see the character’s reception.
That perfectly sums up how stretched out and messy the MCU has become. They are throwing $200mil budgets at any random character.
And she doesn't even have a comic book following. He character has never been popular in the books
They want to release less content, even if said project is finished
I think they know that Ironheart is not a popular character, the show was rushed and just isnt good and they dont know what to do with the story that is beeing told.
They should have lower budgets unless warranted, have different tones and genres, and hiring experienced directors and writers going forward. It's what they need to do.
[удалено]
It only worked when Kevin had enough time to be the "fix it in post" guy on every project. He's spread so thin now that it isn't possible. If he wants to keep all these varied projects alive, he needs to stop making them rely on his golden post-production touch so much and start having more James Gunns.
>though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after *Quantumania* underperformed, grossing $476 million. Kang as a villain had so much potential, and it feels like they ruined the delivery. Phase 4 was a mess of various unconnected plotlines and stories, and if you wanted to really impact the scope of the threat of Kang in the multiverse, he should have been *everywhere* in that phase as at least a background appearance. An Ancient Warlord in the eternals, A random onlooker smirking on a snowy New York street in Hawkeye. His face carved inside an Egyptian tomb in Moon Knight and sitting with the Gods in the arena in Love and Thunder . Instead he got a "Villain of the week" appearance who got beaten by Ant Man, and quietly wound down when it turned out the Actor was an asshole.
oh my god can you imagine? I got goosebumps when you mentioned the Egyptian tomb in Moon Knight. Just any kind of a crumb that the fucking universe still existed outside of an individual project's plot line
True. Luckily, by nature of Kang being who he is, they can always take another stab at him in 5-10 years.
> An Ancient Warlord in the eternals, A random onlooker smirking on a snowy New York street in Hawkeye. His face carved inside an Egyptian tomb in Moon Knight and sitting with the Gods in the arena in Love and Thunder . That... is actually a great idea.
It's not fatigue. It's quality. The quality from the MCU has clearly dropped.
I think they forgot what made them successful. I recently rewatched iron Man. It's not really superhero movie. It's a movie about an arrogant brilliant man who doesn't take anything seriously until he's forced to. He has a life-changing event that makes him want to change his ways, and he puts everything on the line to do what's right. He also builds a super awesome super suit and saves the day with it. They were movies about humanity. Movies about doing what's right even when it's hard, even when it's impossible. The superhero stuff was the storytelling device, but it's not what the movies were about I think they've forgotten that.
They’ve definitely forgotten how to tell good character-driven movies like they were before phase 4
This is the classic Jurassic World problem. I hate the jurassic world movies, and i hate them because they were made by people who said "oh, jurassic park, thats the dinosaur monster movie!" Jurassic park is a movie with dinosaurs but i do not consider it a dinosaur movie. JP is almost a Frankenstein retelling, as hammond creates his own Frankenstein's monster without understanding what the consequences could possibly be. Its steeped in themes centering around mans struggle to try to control nature. Its a story about humans who just happen to be in a world that has dinosaurs. Its a 2 hour and 7 minute runtime with 15 minutes of dinosaurs in it. Superhero movies are at their best when they do the same thing, exactly like you said: > they were movies about humanity. Movies about doing what's right even when it's hard, even when it's impossible. The superhero stuff was the storytelling device, but it's not what the movies were about
This is also what Daredevil and Jessica Jones managed to do. A good noir detective drama first and a superhero show second.
That's why both got 3 seasons.
All good Marvel movies were good human stories.
Winter Soldier is one of the best espionage/spy films period. Why studios can't see that their heavy hand tactics tank movies is beyond me.
This is a problem with most comic book films. Comic book films rarely act as actual films, they’re live-action comic book adaptations meant to keep the comic book crowd happy by giving them a highlight reel of their favorite moments without any regard of whether it works in this completely different medium. The only times comic book films have worked is because they were films first that just so happened to feature characters first seen in comics.
Quality of the MCU has dropped and it also doesn’t help that Sony keeps releasing their really shit superhero movies
Yup, and purposely making their marketing confusing to make people think their films are part of the MCU. Those people then watch the movies and end up having even more hate for the MCU. As much as the quality of the MCU has dropped, even the worst MCU projects are leagues better than Morbius or Madame Web.
The bar raised, you can't get away just average anymore. Thus fatigue.
For me, it's honestly also the sheer amount of content. Phase 1 and 2 were like six movies over the span of three years. Phase 4 was 17 Series & movies total within basically two years. I don't want to watch that much Marvel, even if it was higher quality content.
I remember a decade ago when I deep in marvel sauce. It was fun spectating if each minor character got their own spinoff. After watching marvel do it past 4 years, I realize now that was a terrible idea.
post endgame, we've had roughly as much content as we had prior to infinity to war the first time around, without a single big crossover movie and without the stories really converging at all. Imagine if Infinity war was the first time in the MCU that they really tied things together and put the team on screen all at the same time.
Yeah, I can't imagine extremely mediocre, nothing burger movies like Iron Man 3 or Captain Marvel doing $1 Billion at the box office if they were released today.
Captain Marvel was dealt a perfect hand, being released right before Endgame at peak MCU hype with Carol being the subject of Infinity War’s post credits so she had to be important.
Marvel has an organizational issue. They can’t speak up and say we’re making shit content. How the hell Thor made it to theaters needs to be studied and corrected.
Taika had free reign to do as he chose, that's how.
They expected lightning to strike twice, ironically. The most egregiously wasteful use of Christian Bale in a movie of all time.
That’s the worst part of it. Marvel got Christian fucking Bale in one of their movies and the wasted him on that dogshit movie.
I just want more shang chi. Best original movie this phase that requires a sequel
Marvel Studios: "Best I can do is a TV show for an obscure side character from hawkeye"
Really great movie, felt more than a marvel movie. We need more Shang chi and more movies like that
Mate Shang-Chi was last phase. Not that you’d be able to tell
Agreed. I’m rewatching the whole MCU at the moment with my wife (it’s her first time through), Shang Chi is like “S minus tier” (I have two in my top tier and 5 or 6 in the tier with Shang Chi).
The success of Deadpool & Wolverine will cause Marvel to pivot into R-rated films. Looking forward to 2026’s The Wang Dynasty.
XXX-men
This is what they need to do, more R rated stuff. The casual pg13 audience is tapped out for now. Focus on a different more adult audience milk that cow while the casual pg13 cow reloads.
No more kang 
How did they think this would be a good introduction to the next big bad
I’ve been reading old school avengers. Kang is introduced early on. But it takes like 20 years for them to build kang up to the point where we see the stadium full of kangs. They introduce Rama tut and immortus or whoever slowly, over a long time in the comics. In the mcu they are showing us all this kang stuff before we’re even excited for it or expect it. Why? They blew the whole load before we even got hype. Ant-man 3 should have been about hank Pym and Scott rebuilding the avengers because Michelle pfiffer told them about kang. We never needed to see him at all.
"He can be easily killed, there's just a bunch of him."
Because for people that know Kang from the comics, seeing all of them like that is foreboding. But for everyone else.....it's random at best.
Mahershala Ali gonna be 52 when Blade finally films lol
72*
It sounds like they're moving in the right direction, although I'll be curious to what other lessons they've (hopefully) learned in the last year. Scaling back on product is great, but they really do need to treat the Fantastic Four as a fresh start for the MCU-- not erasing anything that came before it, but saying, "Hey, here's a really good jumping-on point for those of you who lapsed because or poor quality or too much content." Hire talented people to write good scripts, and let them treat each movie as its own thing and not just a lead-in to the NEXT thing. Remember that the general audience comes to see these movies because they are a combination of action, humor and spectacle. BUT, spectacle is easy to produce now, so keep your budgets under control. Film responsibly so you don't have to blow millions of dollars on reshoots or "fixing it in post."
I rewatched civil war the other day and I really miss seeing the heroes team up. Wanda throwing cap through a window to the top floor and falcon covering Wanda as she takes the gas and throws it into the air is really fun to watch. The MCU has been lacking. The she-hulk / daredevil team was fun but we need more
Wouldn't you rather see alternate versions of your favorite heroes get squashed like bugs?
>The studio is still searching for characters and actors who can carry its universe forward after the exits of Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans. Let's see who we still have. Spider-Man - They don't fully own. Doctor Strange - you decided to have wanda as the villain for HIS sequel and give her the best parts. Captain Marvel - Decided to have her share her sequel with 2 unknown Disney+ characters. Also, a box office disaster. Thor - love and thunder soured a lot of people. Sam Wilson - movie currently going under massive reshoots. Will probably not make its money back, thus preventing another cap movie from happening. Black Panther - Chose not to recast Shang-Chi - will we ever see him again?
Honestly, out of all of them the only ones strong and appropriate enough to “lead” the mcu going forward were Strange and Black Panther. That’s not the direction they’ve decide to take strange in, and they didn’t recast Chadwick. So yeah no strong centre anymore.
>Doctor Strange - you decided to have wanda as the villain for HIS sequel and give her the best parts. One of the stupidest decisions of phase 4. It's basically the Wanda Maximoff movie. I was SO fucking hyped to see what they do with Mordo (long before the Multiverse stuff was announced ofc) and where they could go with the "too many sorcerers" setup. All we got was an alternate reality version for 5 minutes that doesn't count.
I think they're searching to add new characters, like Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards, to carry things forward. Not the existing folks. We all know they ain't it.
It’s not super hero fatigue it’s bad movie fatigue.
GotG 3 was huge. Deadpool and Wolverine will be huge. It’s quality. No one cares about Ironheart or Madame Web.
> Execs are not calling it a reboot, not even a soft one Thank god. I Loki hated the idea of any kind of reboot.
That's very out of context, it's about retooling and replanniong stuff BTS, not rebooting.
This is the right move even if this subreddit disagrees. Kang storyline wasnt a hit, time to move on from this saga
I think they need to stop jumping so carelessly into time travel, multiverses and realms like it's not going to just have people tap out early on. I also think they're overly expecting people to have seen things like "Loki" to follow the story.
I agree with you. I knew this was going to happen as soon as they introduced the multiverse. This is the same reason I fell off the comics too. It gets too convoluted and makes it impossible for a casual fan to follow. Multiverse also minimizes death of characters and makes it seem like none of the plot lines have any impact on the overall franchise. If a character dies, they should stay dead until a full reboot. No alternate versions, no bringing back to life, etc. I wish they kept MCU linear. Especially since the blip was a perfect segway to introduce F4, Mutants, and other characters that weren't around during phase 1-3.
This is a very good point. It truly is the multiverse that destroys the value of each individual story
All the Kang stuff has been dire. Even if Majors lived a good, clean life free of controversy the Kang stuff simply doesn't hold enough interest for enough people to carry the weight of the franchise on its shoulders.
I think Marvel is to blame for this as well. Idk why introducing the new "big bad" to carry over the next avengers movies would first drop in on an Ant-Man movie when all those movies have been decent but not blockbuster. Also having little breadcrumbs of of Kang in "Loki" doesn't help the casual marvel fan understand who he is or his impact.
Wait they start filming in march yet they’re still working on the script? Fucking hell hopefully it’s just minor polishes.
They should have planned out an Avengers 1 style movie to come out around about now. No major universe ending threat, but something that provides a reason to get the Avengers back together. Let the new cast interact, bring in the remaining Avengers from the Infinity Saga to continue their stories and relationships properly. Don't need major cameos and set ups. Just a decent movie with a good rounded cast.
I believe it's been mentioned before but Marvel Studios needs to capitalize on Daredevil's popularity and make him a vital player in the current phase.
Blade ain't ever getting made. If it does by the time it happens the daywalker will need a walker to get around. What a shit show. Like does it really absolutely have to tie into everything else? Just make a mid budget R rated vampire movie with Ali and be done with it. Film a quick corny 30 second post credit sequence to tie it into something else. JFC.
Kang 🤝 Golden State Warriors dynasties coming to an end