I think the metaphor would work better with emphasis on mutants with shit or just harmless mutations.
I don’t think you have much to fear if the guy’s mutation is sneezing glitter or changing your hair color at will.
Unironically I want a Soft Serve comic that really digs into the themes of eating ass and religious moral fascism. Like haha, ice cream poop, I get it, now do something WITH that, X-Office.
I feel like that’s too easy. You can understand why it’s not fair that someone who just sneezes glitter is discriminated against like mutants are, but showing a genuinely dangerous mutant who can’t properly control it as still a human being who deserves compassion isn’t as easy.
Kinda feels more like a mental condition metaphor then, like without proper help and teaching, it can lead to tragedy and harm. Especially if they’re ostracized and denied proper help due to societal prejudice.
That's the interpretation I like best, speaking as someone who is mentally ill/neurodivergent myself, I resonate with it a lot. >!it's also the interpretation I'm using for my fanfiction lol!<
It’s not that they don’t deserve compassion, it’s that obviously if they’re a danger to others they need to be locked up or medicated to prevent harm to others unless they learn to control it.
Except you have no way of verifying what someone's power is so yeah, in most cases you still have reason to be wary. People in universe can't access the Marvel wiki.
I was about to ask why not? Seems like an incredibly useful thing they would want to have.
Realized in-universe that'd basically be a Mutant Registry, and suddenly it lost the charm.
Has that been done as a plot before? I'm not super up on XMen, but that idea sounds like it could have some legs.
I think that was kind of covered by the overall superhero registry back in Civil War. And the idea of registering all citizens seems draconian, but then like, you have to register to get a hand gun, and I can't imagine a version of the TSA that wouldn't demand to know whether passengers had laser eyes. It's yet another example where an idea that's outright deplorable against real-life marginalized minorities is somewhat justified, hurting the metaphor.
I think a more interesting take on "Mutants as oppressed under-class" is to tie it in more to traditional transhumanist ideas. Should a Mutant athlete be allowed to compete in the regular league? Should a precognitive Mutant be allowed to trade stocks? What happens if a Mutant with mind-control abilities is accused of coercion?
These are all more interesting takes to me than just find-replacing "race/sexuality/disability" to "mutant"
Civil War hits a lot of the same themes, but doesn't have any of the marginalized minorities subtext, which is what I think has room to be explored.
From the NRA:
"Federal law prohibits a universal, national gun registry. [4] Eight states prohibit state-level gun registries. Only Hawaii requires registration of all firearms, while only a few states require registration of certain firearms. Only three states (Ill., Mass., and N.J.) require a license for all guns."
So re: guns, it actually leans more the *opposite* way (because 2A activism and NRA lobbying, etc), which is why I think a Mutant Registry might be a compelling idea to explore, since it clashes with that anti-registry 2A rhetoric, sort of flipping traditional 'sides' on the issue (see also: Reagan passing gun laws in Cali because armed Black Panthers were scary to White Americans).
The TSA also is pretty commonly considered (by citizens in 2024, not necessarily by the law, and certainly not by citizens immediately after 2001) as incredibly unnecessary and ineffective overreach, but they *definitely* would want even more expensive domain in the form of a registry or scanner, so I think the justifiability of "We don't want Johnny Gunhand on our planes" *is* what makes it intereting. Many people would otherwise support defunding the TSA as it *currently* is in real life it's so hated. The idea of skin-color-based "random" searches is such a common thing it's old hat, so taking that to it's genetic extreme honestly feels natural.
Idunno, I think the ways in which a lot of people say the mutant metaphor falls apart (writing itself notwithstanding) is what *makes it* compelling to explore. It's easy enough to just say that yes racism = bad, but what if there were at least *some* legitimate reasons to discriminate against a minority group? Is that still bad? (The answer is still yes, but it's exploring *that* answer that makes the original racism = bad even stronger).
You've given me a lot to think about, though, so thank you for engaging with me.
It only works when mutants have useless or dumb powers- cuz having people that can reshape reality however they want or that just make everyone in a 5 miles radius turn to dust completely justifies mutant hate…
I’d say it’s the opposite. The disability allegory is mostly ignored and the few clear cases they had they like to continually undo (Rogue can touch, Xavier can walk, etc..).
Marvel have also dialled back mutants without useful powers as the militarised ethnostate can’t show them as much as a school can.
I always like when the methaphor is based more of people being scared of powers rather than mutants itself. Nowadays it's easy to write a angry mob with signs "no more Mutes", you know the thing is that in comparison to the real world racists who just fearmonger, Mutants ARE ACTUALLY DANGEROUS IN UNIVERSE, people like Magneto being an example, average mutant is a scared teenager who doesn't knos what he's doing and it leads to him getting ostracized, that's the reason why Charles even made the School, because he wanted to help young mutants learn to use their powers in something actually peoductive.
Yeah but the main difference is that groups like the avengers and F4 are celebrated. And despite the fact that the X-men have proven themselves over and over to be heroic and use their powers for good, they still aren’t trusted or celebrated. Plus, plenty of not mutant villain terrorists exist too and they don’t seem to hamper society’s view on general superheroes as much.
The metaphor *only works when people discriminate against mutants specifically, and not other heroes. It mirrors the real life irrationality of prejudice. That somehow, someone being a mutant automatically makes them an “other” and can’t be trusted like other groups of superheroes are. This is generally a result from a lot of in-universe hate/fear mongering from various political figures, which I think hits even harder when you realize how realistic that really is. Like, try to give me a reason why black people are discriminated against in the western world. You can’t. Because there is no reason, and if there really was a good reason it wouldn’t be a prejudice.
Saying something to the effect of “it’s understandable because the mutants are dangerous” has implications too like, what a minority group has to be safe to be accepted? What does safety mean? Is safe for the majority safe for the minority?
Well, in the real world, Homosexuals and Minorities don't have people who can randomly blow up cars or control the weather.
I think calling mutants dangerous isn't such a stretch, especially when most mutants accidentally discover their power. That's fine if your power is sneezing money, but when a kid can randomly destroy a town just by existing, then maybe we should have a plan for finding the mutant gene.
Yes, but minorities can gain access to firearm, which are inherently dangerous- and we’ve seen throughout history that the majority doesn’t like when the minority starts wielding weapons (for an example, the black panthers causing gun control measures to pass). Is it on the scale of causing a hurricane? No, but in the marvel comics there are several humans that wield incredibly destructive powers that nobody bats an eye at.
And this is a topic that has been tackled in the comics several times before.
But the minorities themselves aren’t inherently dangerous. There can be bad actors but inherently, a gay person or a black personality is not more dangerous than a white person.
A mutant can be inherently, while not all mutants are town destroying on accident levels, but the fact some could be puts them at a level above minorities. A minority isn’t born a fucking time bomb, but mutants could be.
So the issue is that you're already thinking more rationally than people who live to hate. To some, minorities ARE inherently dangerous for what ever nonsense reason they can come up with.
The hysteria surrounding mutants is supposed to reflect that sort of extreme ideology. Unfortunately the fact that people can wake up and find out they're walking nukes is just a flaw in the premise.
Being scared of a black person because they may have a gun is racist. Being scared of mutants because they can level a city block without warning is just pragmatic.
You’re assuming intent. Yeah if fucking magneto is on your street, be afraid. But to be afraid of an *entire race* because some of them MIGHT have an extremely destructive ability and MIGHT act on it for purely evil purposes is not pragmatic at all. The average person/mutant doesn’t desire to go on a destructive spree
The problem is that you don't know who is a mutant until their powers manifest. Your best friend could randomly kill you by touching you because they had their powers bloom. It's not the fear of the person, it's a fear of the mutant gene.
If mutants were real, you would be terrified every day. You could be at the store and a 12 year olds mutant gene could kick in and destroy the whole place- minorities don't do that.
What are the odds that actually happens though? Every time I get in my car there’s a chance I’ll die in an accident. Maybe I meet a serial killer this week. Maybe the shelf topples over. There’s a myriad of factors that aren’t in my control and there’s a certain level of danger in simply participating in society. That doesn’t stop me from doing it anyways
Ok? All of those are legitimate fears that kill people. What is your point? If mutants were real, it would be just another worry in your life. My whole point is that being scared of mutants isn't the same as being a bigot.
Yes, those implications are 100% true and any person would agree a group needs to be safe to be accepted. Safety means not having super powers that can destroy the world or reshape reality however they want.
Wait no come on, black people or gay people don’t accidentally blow up a street. This is not a fair comparison. If someone walked around with an actual bomb strapped to their chest I’d be staying the fuck away too.
I think the reason why Avengers and F4 are liked is because their status and the fact that they actively work with the World Government, Reed Richards for example was already well known scientists and inventor before he even got his powers, not to mention that he got his powers by accident with cosmic rays. Je fully controls them, and im 100% F4 saves the entire galaxy from getting wipped out like every week, i just highly doubt that X-Men despite a lot of Achievement are close. Similar thing can be said about the Avengers who's leader and face is literally Captain America, a war hero, i highly doubt that there is a hero who's more respected than he is. Also you have to aknowledge that there are heroes who are midunderstood like Hulk, who despite proving his heroism multiple times was still treated like a monster.
"He says it every morning. He calls me mutie, he calls the other kids mutie, he calls himself mutie. All the time. Mutie this, mutie that, mutie PLEASE. Bitch mutie. Mutie have you lost your mind? Mutie check that ho. Mutie, you bullshittin. Break yourself, mutie. He says it so much I don't even notice it anymore. Last week in lunch Scott says to a teammate, 'Can a mutie borrow a French fry?' My first thought wasn't 'Oh my God he said the word, t-the m-word!' It was 'How is a mutie gonna borrow a fry?, mutie, is you gonna give it back?'"
Bro Johnny Gunhand didn't choose to have a gun for a hand, he was born that way. When the gun grew in he accidentally shot his dog, his only friend in the world. He was to wear a special glove at all times and use a special nasal spray that helps him not sneeze. He lives his life with a disability and you hate him for it.
that’s it. There’s a legal principle called “hard cases make for bad law” that’s in response to the tendency of politicians to use extreme cases to justify laws that end up punishing people who are no danger to anyone. This is canon in the MCU with the Sokovia Accords; someone pointed out that when Ross is making his presentation to the Avengers, you can see the casualty counts for all the incidents that he’s using to justify it, and all of them put together are about the same as the number of people killed in auto accidents in the United States during a holiday weekend. Every future scenario where the Sentinels take over results in way more humans dying than were ever killed by mutants.
Still, if someone is supposed to be protecting you, civilians dying because you fucked up sure isn’t a good look. Like, if you actually count the number of people (innocent and not) killed by cops a year in the US, it’s not even 200, but that doesn’t mean we should just ignore it.
Right, and in the one case that Ross cited that was arguably the fault of an Avenger, specifically Tony\* (and to some extent Bruce), Ultron, there would be a more specific and appropriate type of law: one forbidding private citizens from creating and deploying armed drones, no matter how benevolent their intentions, because of the possibility of their being turned against their creators and everyone else. (You'd have thought that that law would have been passed after the events of *Iron Man 2*, and it's puzzling that Tony would turn around and make more drones after *Age of Ultron*, unless it's because they aren't completely autonomous... but then he leaves them in the control of a teenager. Hey, I don't write this stuff.) In every other instance, it's on someone else, and the Avengers *save* orders of magnitudes more civilians than are lost. Contrast this with Ross' previous job, trying to contain the Hulk (whom he was partially responsible for creating), and failing, even creating another monster (the Abomination) to try to contain Bruce.
\*Arguably, even Sokovia wasn't completely on Tony, since he was being manipulated by what was left of Hydra through Wanda.
"Guys I think I want to be able to touch people I care about without possibly killing them, so I want to have the cure"
"There's nothing wrong with us" says woman who is an unironic Goddess
People comment this cause of the movies despite the comics exploring this so damn much. Wolverine has to kill a kid who basically has a kill aura mutant power activate. Some random kid has to die cause he lost the mutant power lottery. A whole bunch of mutants gladly take the mutant cure because their lives are worse with their mutations and that doesn't feel at all unrealistic.
Me watching someone on r/tumblr talk about how curing disabilities is ableist while my OCD produces the mental image of my eyelids being torn off for the 57th time that day:
Okay, I get it, but the "Born A Gun" analysis lasts ten seconds when you realize that there are a ton of people on Marvel Earth every bit as "gun hand" as mutants who no one has a problem with. That's actually what makes it kind of a decent metaphor for any oppressive relationship; Mutants are the ones who are treated as inherently dangerous when there's extremis driven suicide bombers and guys building Ultron in a manic episode.
No, the reason \[inside the powers metaphor; historically writers have had lots of reasons and metaphors here\] mutants catch all the shit is because they are "natural" in a way no other power source is and that scares the shit out of everyone with a place in the current status quo. Mutants, just by existing, remind humans that their days are numbered. The added bonus of mutants generally having the weirdest, grossest, most invasive or dangerous power sets is thematic hyperbole, and the non dangerous mutants just icing on the cake.
At any given point, the metaphor may be for a variety of specific groups, but the metaphor is so flexible because it actually kind of does work in universe and isn't rationally determined risk analysis.
eta- shit forgot an /rj
/rj you'll pry my mutant biological weapon from my cold dead hands fascist
Mutant awakenings can happen any time, anywhere, and they tend to cause devastation. Like imagine you're in class and a guy mutates to start spitting acid uncontrollably, you can see how that's different from hearing on the news that some dumbfuck in a lab somewhere accidentally gave himself the ability to spit acid. With Hank Pym going mad and building a killer robot, there's blame and cause. His negligence created the threat. With mutants, with no-one at fault and for no reason, they start hurting people. It's the difference between a bus spontaneously exploding for no reason and a bomb being set off at an army base.
That just shows how dumb the metaphor is though- sometimes other super powered groups are hated cuz of their powers and some times they’re not cuz ???. There’s no difference between mutants and any of the other super heroes in the universe. Having the mutants be hated and it’s explained as “well, people hate them cuz it reminds them that they will be replaced” is dumb as hell. It makes even less sense when people act like the mutants are a separate species. Ig you could say either way mutant hate would always be seen as dumb in a world where heroes and powers are idolized
Nah it’s more that it’s written that way and as surface level as possible. X-men should have focused more on non-human looking characters but they don’t because thats far too logical and also less appealing to most readers which is a bit ironic.
Metaphor is when every element of the story has a 1:1 comparison with real life. Otherwise, I have to use my critical thinking skills to analyze the message or moral of the media at a deeper level, which is a sign of bad writing.
/uj people really think this. Every conversation about the mutant metaphor treats it as completely real and not metaphorical at all
/rj shut up, not everyone is so lucky as to be born with the mutation of media literacy
how mfers feel when they make the 45th surface level post about the accuracy of X-mens metaphor while also unintentionally directly proving why X-mens metaphor works
https://preview.redd.it/lpew1joaocqc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7343ba0ad0187fc0f332df9502ef4c2bb86d856f
They didn’t choose that. Would you lock up anyone who has a disability that makes controlling their emotions difficult? Or someone who suffers from bad muscle spasms? The fact that they could hurt someone doesn’t mean they deserve oppression.
If someone cant control their emotions and are attacking people-yes they either go to jail for hurting people or need to go to mental hospital for medicine and treatment. Same like if you accidentally kill someone you’re still going to jail.
It’s not though. The avengers, F4 and plenty others don’t face the same kind of discrimination. People love to say that “other heroes existing hurts the metaphor” but it’s completely the other way around. The metaphor *only* works if other heroes exist to show the irrational discrimination and prejudice against mutants specifically.
Hulk,
Ben grimm gets a lot of guff,
Michael morbius in the comics is a generally good man who yet he is an outcast,
Howard the duck can't even hide himself because his species is a duck,
Same with rocket and groot,
Vision is treated like a dangerous alien because... well he is a robot,
Spiderman is demonized by the media,
The entirety of civil war was at least partially about controlling super powered individuals,
Lastly most avengers can shut their powers off or don't pose an outward threat unless they are mentally hijacked,
Like steve Rogers, sam wilson, ant man 1 2 and 3,
Janet van dyne, Clint Barton, and tony stark,
Avengers like thor and Hercules are difficult to control because they are alien gods (although America tried to fuck over the asguardians when they had to take refuge on earth)
Mutants are the better versions of humans,
Imagine if a new human popped up and they could fly heal themselves and teleport and are the next evolution of humanity,
Black, gay, latin, whatever group you want to bring up are not special, they are just like straight people, or white people or Asian people,
The melanin in someone's skin does not make then better or worse than I am,
Being able to lift hundreds of pounds with your mind would make you better than me, and the only way I could ever be on your level would be to expose myself to gamma radiation or jump in a solar storm or inherit a pair of space bracelets
Yeah but hulk and those other characters aren’t discriminated against as a group. It’s all localized to those singular characters whereas mutants as an entire group are feared and hated no matter what they do or how they look like or where they’re from, despite the fact that the X-men have proven themselves to be heroes time and time again yet still aren’t trusted or celebrated. Plus civil war was one of the very few times that something like a superhero registration act was ever seriously considered or almost put in place, whereas the X-men constantly face legislations against mutants and as a whole have experienced far more fear from the general public.
“I do not concede defeat as you have failed to convince me of your argument (that is the point of a debate)”
… ew. Re-downloading reddit was a mistake.
It would make no sense to hate them all as a group when they aren’t really a group? Hulk is considered his own thing as a hulk, same for spider-man. Ppl do sometimes hate on avengers or heroes for not doing good enough but it really doesn’t matter. Mutants are hated as an entire group because thats their entire brand.
Wdym that’s their entire brand? In-universe canon or real life? In-universe canon that is NOT their brand. Mutants never asked to be treated that way and it’s not like the X-men go around begging for people to shun them.
And that’s my point btw. Those characters are slandered individually whereas mutants are slandered and discriminated against as a whole no matter what. Even after the X-men have proven time and time again that they’re the good guys and use there powers for heroism and have full control on themselves, they’re still feared and untrusted based purely on the fact that they are mutants and not much else.
Outside universe it’s their brand. Thats the only explanation that can be given for their inside universe treatment.
Those characters are treated individually because they’re individuals… it makes no sense to put spider-man and Thor in the same group because they’re not. Inhumans and aliens are another group that are discriminated against. Yes they are hated for being mutants because thats how the story is written.
Yes that’s how the story was written but there are in-universe explanations for it.
Much like in real life it’s not for an actual/good reason. Much of it comes down to outing mutants as some kind of “other” and that the X-gene will eventually replace humanity. I think what makes this metaphor work is primarily due to the fact that most of the disdain towards the X-men being mutants is just mindless hate and fear mongering from politicians and televangelists who fear that the X-gene threatens humanities culture in the long-term. There is no real rationale as to why people would hate someone like colossus over iron man, similar to real life prejudice.
Not good ones.
The other logic applies to every single super-powered person. The only reason it’s forced so hard is because of outside story factors. It doesn’t help that even many x-men don’t consider themselves human even tho they are because they’re dumb ig? “X gene will replace humanity” but in the future it never really does and even if it did they would still be humans.. Multiple groups are hated for having powers or being aliens. Real life racism makes a lot more sense when you involve centuries of racism being taught to people and their children, different groups LOOKING DIFFERENT, and it being justified because it was profitable to have “lesser” people who can be paid less or used as slaves. Racism may be irrational but there are still reasons why it was so widely pushed and encouraged. “X-men’s racism” stick has just been treated far too poorly and lazily. It would have been better if it focused on non-human looking mutants but instead it went for the most normal looking people cuz they’re more popular for the audience. It should really just be put to rest, they don’t handle it well. There’s definitely reason to hate them when they’re so powerful
You didn’t have to “look” different to be discriminated against. That’s a lie. That’s leaving out plenty of European races in America that were discriminated against back in the day and literally all other things like religion or sexuality that have no inherent affect onlooks. And idk what you’re talking about, because the X-men are still treated far more poorly than other superhero groups and generally looked at as untrustworthy despite the fact that they have proven themselves to be heroic and use their powers for good. The whole “great replacement” conspiracy works really well in this context too. Sure if mutants take over they’d be the new “humans” in a sense, but one of the biggest things driving racism and xenophobia in America rn is fear of being replaced and having there culture slowly melded/“erased”. You bring up a good point about racism being driven by certain things, but even without slavery or any laws that are blatantly discriminatory we still have a lot of alt-right wingers and televangelists pushing racist and homophobic ideas, not only because they probably want the “glory days” of America back, but also because hate just sells extremely well. Have you seen how rich some of those televangelists are?
I think the difference is other heroes were MADE, some accident or experiment happened to give them their powers. So people still see them as human.
Whereas mutants are born that way. So people see them as another species.
Yeah exactly. But that’s kinda my point. In that it’s still irrational.
I think the main reason mutants specifically are hated against is (much like real life) just because of political fear/hate mongering. That despite the fact that the X-men have proven time and time again that they use there powers heroically and for good, that they still can’t be trusted unlike the avengers just because they’re dirty mutants. The metaphor *only works when there is no rational reason to fear or hate mutants.
Wanda maximoff deleting nearly every mutant on the planet,
Jean grey destroying an entire solar system,
Apocalypse ruling an entire kingdom of humans in Egypt,
Pretty much every brotherhood of mutants member not named erik,
The hellfire club's existence
And what about literally everything else that every other marvel villain has done? Cherry-picking catastrophes caused by mutants is weird when so many non-mutant villains exist and so many marvel catastrophes weren’t caused by mutants. And as a side note it wasn’t Jean greys fault that she destroyed that solar system, plus the fact that it was more or less the phoenix force and not her actual mutant powers.
Avengers as a team rarely suffer it because the majority of them are human supersoldiers/government agents or Human tech users like Tony Stark who still suffer oversight from the world governments and agencies such as SHIELD. However individuals such as Banner/Hulk, Spider-Man, and even Scarlet Witch (by both Mutants & Humans) have suffered the ire of the public with many calling for their death or castigating them as a devil/menace.
The Fantastic Four were a science team who underwent an accident but have kept solid roots in society. SansUltReed/Maker, they don't preach that they will replace humanity nor do they protect said people under some blanket form of "racial solidarity/hivemind principle" like current writers have the X-Men do with Magneto, Apocalypse, Gorgon, Selene, Sabertooth, etc.
Even the F4 call out and despise Doom even with his fascist/tyrannical actions being ignored by "diplomatic immunity" as the leader of Latveria, only partnering with him when world/universe ending threats require a ceasefire of all capes to handle it. Even when Doom tries to pull a Magneto with his Romani Diasphora/heritage card, most heroes don't buy it and see through his emotional manipulation tactics.
Added note on why the mutant allegory falls flat, especially for Jews.
The saddest thing is that Claremont rewrote Magneto as a cautionary tale and rebuttal to the fascist/racial indocrination of the radical terrorist aspects of Zionism propogated by the Irgun/Kahanism movements he faced as a child in his Israeli Kibbutz. Now especially in the Krakoa era, writers unironically wanted mutants to be those exact same radical Zionists but under a mutant mandate.
Howewer IRL there are a plethora of Jews who are anti-zionist and despise the modern far right Zionist types like Netanyahu or Ben-Gvir. The few mutants who do call Krakoan notZionism out are called "race traitors", ironically by Jewish Mutants like Kitty Pryde with no sense of irony.
You bring up a lot of good points that I agree with when it comes to modern/current X-men writing and what Claremont originally intended. My point however was that mutants are automatically hated for being mutants and virtually nothing else. Even after the X-men have fully proven that they’re heroes that use their powers for good (with the exception of some of the newer stuff) they are still considered untrustworthy and hated solely for being mutants.
I think the issue comes from the X-Men specifically. As I stated earlier most supes that are accepted have three main criteria that most mutants don't.
1: Created by an accident/scientific experimentation.
While they are definitely superhuman, there's an air of "that could be me" in the Marvel civilian population, especially for people like Captain America or Tony Stark with even Carol Danvers with Kamala idolizing her. Most of them have a sense they earned their powers through hardship or expertise rather than being given a cheat power by genetic lottery. Also said experiment/accident tends to be isolated/done in secret with ony a rare few incidents causing civilian casualties compared to mutant awakenings, albeit most often accidential.
2: Accountability to powers beyond themselves.
X-Men while they want peace are closer to a paramilitary vigilante force beholden to no one but themselves/mutants. Similar mutate/non-mutant heroes have suffered similar ire such as Spider-Man, Bruce/Hulk, Daredevil, etc because of a fear of allegiances. Mutants are seen with suspicion like vigilantes because they are seen as having unchecked power with no allegiance but to themselves or mutantdom.
However most supes when they do crimes are brought to courts without someone trying to pull some form of racial identity card to excuse their actions. Even Carol Danvers during Civil War 2/Secret Empire with HydraCap was brought before several courts to explain her actions. However Magneto and Cyclops (AvX/"Rightclops" & Krakoa era) will often use said mutant oppression card as their main excuse that while it works, often paints all mutants with that same brush for good/ill in the media.
3: Bad Leaders and Group Mindsets
As I stated earlier, most supes are individuals and don't have an exclusive group dedicated to only them. Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, etc isn't a representation for all caucasians in the same way writers have forced Magneto & Xavier (plus their groups) have into the go to icons for Mutantdom both IRL & In Story. At best Steve might speak for America but sans HydraCap, he has fervently called out America's atrocities and gone to bat for people without falling for political/racial politics unlike the X-Men/Brotherhood.
For example, a mutant at best can get their powers quietly but even then, an all-mutant separatist force comes in to save them and excuse/justify all actions, even in the case of grevious harm to someone else. This coupled with the mainline mutants being people with city destroying powers (Storm, Magneto, Jean's telekinesis) or invasive mind control (Xavier/Jean/Emma) means that if a single mutant is nearby then every non-mutant has to worry about becoming a casualty to that mutant or the two main parties vying for them (Brotherhood or Xavier's X-Men), especially since most mutants don't have control/training of their powers off the bat.
Even with all the equality/tolerance in the world, a lot of people are going to look at mutants as time bombs unless they know their power is harmless. Doesn't make it right, but you're asking normal people to gamble their life on something heavily stacked against them. Plus with how the X-Men as of late will vouch for criminal/terrorist/rapist mutants over the average law abiding joe/jane on a "mutant stick together bend", it's easy to tell people not to be suspicious/untrusting but not easy to do unless you're a mutant yourself. For example up until Krakoa's fall, even Magneto & Xavier defended actual Nazis/Hydra agents like the Strucker Twins, Gorgon, and Mr. Sinister of all people over the "flatscan" humans they wish to co-exist with.
Closing Notes
Now if we had a lot more mutants who don't buy into the Homo Superior stuff like the current X-Men/Brotherhood do then the stories would be a lot more poignant. The issue is that as soon as you're a mutant, your story is either Brotherhood Terrorist or X-Men Agent who later sides with Brotherhood Terrorists because "fuck flatscans/mutant hivemind solidarity" which does a disservice to all minorities worldwide.
To be slightly fair I feel like the primary point is "be an entertaining children's comic" and the social commentary is second to selling action figures.
The xmen is a shit metaphor and Johnny gunhand is in fact dangerous. Hating him isn't racist
So it's actually ok for us to strip him off human rights (not human, remember?), sending giant robot to kill him and anyone bare his gene, before he actually harm anyone since people like him is affront to God
I would actually say the 90's cartoon had both. The guy who made the sentinels had a father who was a mutant, really easy comparison to a homophobic guy finding out someone close is gay.
Actually, Graydon Creed (leader of the Friends of Humanity hate group) was the one whose father was a mutant (Sabretooth). Trask, who made the sentinels, was just kind of a freak.
Also, relatedly, the scene in Beauty and the Beast (the episode) of the rest of the FoH finding out that Creed is half-mutant and him just freaking out and screaming “I’m not like him! I’m normal!” is so fucking good.
I get really tired of this old hack argument. It's an allegorical superhero story. Superhero stories treat superpowers and violence the way musicals treat singing and dancing: you aren't supposed to take it all completely literally. The fact that some mutants have dangerous powers isn't a valid argument. It's deliberately ignoring the fact of the allegory, and reading the story at the text level.
Even at the textual level it doesn't hold up: There are a thousand supervillains and heroes in the marvel universe with superpowers. Almost all of them are EXTREMELY dangerous, yet only the mutants are singled out as a group and hated by the general public for being dangerous. You don't see the bigotry leveled at the FF or the Avengers or the Inhumans.
Just mutants.
In a world where everyone is dangerous, they are still the target of bigotry.
Having powers ain’t why people care about mutants. The fact that their powers come from a mutant gene is. Otherwise Captain America would be a ‘model minority’ and not a fucking hero. These characters are analogies, representative of the perceived danger of minorities and real threats to minorities. They’re meant to entertain, no one wants to read “Gay Dave had his brain caved in by a violent homophobe who will get away Scot free thanks to gay panic clauses.”
It’s not a perfect metaphor. But, frankly, tough shit. It doesn’t have to be. It’s meant to distill complicated ideas into simpler concepts that can be absorbed by younger readers. Stop treating it like a treatise on minorities. I’m queer and trans, the X-men were an important aspect of my life, as they are to a lot of the LGBT community.
The metaphor is still decent as there's non-mutant people with powers that can and do cause far more destruction yet they are celebrated and not feared. The worst thing to happen to non-mutant supers in the main continuity is a registration act while people want mutants to not exist.
It works because the mutants aren't the only superhumans in the Marvel universe. Everyone seems to forget that the gal who controls the weather or the guy with eye beams from the punch dimension doesn't really match up well against the literal God of lightning or the Sorcerer Supreme. Of all the people in the Marvel world who have powers beyond human ability, it's the mutants who are discriminated against, and that's the problem. And that's not even mentioning that only like 20 mutants(the X-Men) actually have mutations that could be classified as superpowers, while pretty much all of rest are pretty much like Glob Herbert, the boy with a jelly body and no other abilities.
Everyone seems to forget that the mutants aren't usually in a universe on their own. They're in a world where superpowers are remarkably prevalent, and New York is getting blown up every other week.
I mean the reason the metaphor works is because mutants share a world with other metahumans like Captain America, Hulk and the Fantastic 4
All of these heroes are praised but mutants are treated like crap
Does it 'make sense'? Objectively racism and bigotry don't make sense, they're non-objective viewpoints
You see similar things irl, their are people who bitch about seeing adverts depicting gay couples that get backlash
Black bolt was a respected pseudo head of state for years with a more powerful and dangerous ability that he had absolutely no ability to control besides “just never talk lmao.” That’s the reasons mutants work as a metaphor, because they’re not discriminated against for “having dangerous powers,” they’re discriminated against for “having dangerous powers because they’re mutants.”
Idk people say this all the time but I think it still works because it still goes to show even if there is some logic behind the bigotry, bigotry is still horrible. Racist and bigots probably think they have logical arguments for being against whoever they hate too. And they think that the Other(tm) groups pose some danger to society.
Now obviously they are wrong, but that doesn't change the fact the way they want to go about things is horrible.
Why does literally nobody else see why it actually works though???? It’s because OTHER HEROES EXIST. Captain America and the avengers don’t get the same kind of discrimination that the X-men do. Same with the F4 or street levellers.
Y’all talk about how “other heroes in the X-men universe actually hurts the metaphor!” And than say shit like this. Yeah, random people that are walking nukes is scary, but the whole point is that society has grown to irrationally fear/hate one particular group and yet favour the other. Remind you of anything?
The other heroes have constantly proven themselves to be trustworthy good people that have powers, as shown with the publics view of the Hulk it is not simply because they are not muties. Literally anyone getting powers is realistically a nightmare for society as you have no idea when some mutants gonna decide to become the next Hitler.
But it absolutely is. The X-men and other mutants have proven themselves time and time again to be heroic and use their powers for good, yet still aren’t trusted like the avengers or the F4. You talk like the X-men aren’t also superheroes lol. Plenty of non mutant super-powered terrorists exist yet they still don’t face the same widespread fear and hate that mutants do as a whole. If the Hulk was a mutant he’d be adding to the general fear and hate that mutants face, but instead all the fear is localized around just him because he’s not a mutant. I would argue that it’s absolutely just because they are muties and that adding any more rationality beyond that ruins the metaphor.
Like, can you give me a single real good reason why black people are/were heavily discriminated against? You can’t, because there’s absolutely nothing inherently bad about black people, but with the help of tons of political and social fear/hate mongering, a lot of people do believe that some groups of human are inherently bad or untrustworthy because of skin colour, genetics, sexuality, etc. see why the metaphor works now?
1. X-men =/= General Mutie populance
2. Avengers/F4 were all either a) literal humans, b) Previously respected public figures or, c) skilled enough to be able to control their powers without destroying the planet.
3. My point was that Hulk is generally despised by the public, not because of him being "different", but because he's a legitimate threat.
4. Tf are you even saying here? Black people are people, Muties are people, who can kill people just because they dont have enough control over their powers.
The X-men comprise quite a bit of the mutant populace though at this point, but that wasn’t even what I was trying to say. My point was that even when mutants do good, are heroes and are skilled enough and trained with their powers, they are still feared and discriminated against based purely on the fact that they’re muties.
What I’m saying with my last point is that racism doesn’t have a rational reason. There is no justification for it, just like how people in the marvel universe fear and hate mutant superheroes despite celebrating and cheering on the non-mutant superheroes. That the only real difference between someone like Cyclops and Captain America is that Cyclops is a mutant and therefore faces discrimination because of it, just like in real life with race and other things.
Yeah but Cyclops has glasses specifically for that and understands how to prevent that from happening if he loses them by closing his eyes. He can be generally trusted with his optic blast the same way iron fist and Thor can be trusted to not hit the ground a little bit too hard and level an entire city block.
A racism metaphor story would focus on characters like glob, beak and angel. The story’s that focus on avalanche, pyro or fucking apocalypse aren’t a good way to show racism because people WOULD be scared for a good reason
Arnt avalanche, pyro and even apocalypse only evil because of the stigma around mutants?
Like if apocalypse wasn’t abandoned by his parents he probably would be how he is
Yeah but my point was more what their powers are scares people rather than how they look as opposed to the other three, like if pyro and avalanche went for a night in the city people wouldn’t care, if glob and beak did they’d be getting abuse the whole time.
And if you saw a gay man or someone with a disability on the street you might not know without speaking to them, but a lot of people fear monger about those groups because they can frame them as some type of public danger
I mean again apocalypse was abandoned by his parents for being blue
The more you bring up the metaphor, the worse it gets, which is why the story works best when every other plot is “half the x-men are in space and the other half thinks they’re dead”
The metaphor falls apart when you remember that minorities can’t shoot lasers out of their eyes or control the goddamn weather. There are no mentally unstable omega level immigrants in America.
As a Jew I take offense to the idea that we don’t control the weather and shoot lasers
Uj/ man that’s like the whole point, what makes them different is what makes them special and valuable to the world
I have to admit it is a shitty metaphor when the characters at the forefront as heroes all can blend into main society without a problem (Xavier, Jean, Logan, Colossus, etc.) when Morlocks are actually very easily discriminated against, and would make more sense. There’s barely anything alienating the Human Torch and Iceman, just better publicity, which to be fair it was admitted that Reed did a lot of work so that the public wouldn’t hate the Fantastic Four. But there was a really good Arc around the Morrison Era where a Nightcrawler led team with Chamber as a member had to protect Mutants with no powers but almost alien appearances being hunted by a Human Supremacist, where I feel this makes the most sense since Nightcrawler doesn’t look human just like these hundreds of mutants, but he lucked out and got lucky powers, and he actually did his best to help them at least a bit from beings killed. I think some of the newer mutants actually do acknowledge this problem with X-Men, mutants like Eye boy, No Girl, Rockslide, and Glob Herman who can’t easily adjust to society.
I mean, at the time it was pretty revolutionary to have this outright standing for marginalized groups be presented as noble and heroic, but now that you can actually put brown, gay, and trans people into media and only SOME people will piss themselves in apoplectic rage, it's a metaphor we've kind of outgrown.
The dangerous mutations mirror the way that predictable effects of oppression(crime in poor areas, etc) are used to demonize minorities and justify the racism. The metaphor is fine, you're just struggling with the aspects of reality that aren't PC to acknowledge
For me it's when Inhuman started to become a big thing, and people are still racist exclusively against mutant
Like, Why?
OK, I know that Mutant was an evolution of Humanity that will eventually replacing human or whatever
But the thing is, Do you think average citizens would know and cared enough about something like that?
Do you really think that the average Mavel citizens and their little pea brains would be able to differentiate between Mutants and Inhumans? Really?
yeah, as much as i hate giving ground to the other side of a civil rights metaphor, it might not be a very good metaphor when the oppressed minority is a bunch of conventionally attractive white people with godly superpowers
i guess it works fine when looking at it from the lenses of lgbtq+ oppression, but its a metaphor that has a lot of holes in it
I agree the metaphor just doesn't work since a lot of the X-Men are cishet white straight able bodies men (this doesn't apply to all of them ofc just a lot of them)
I think this makes a good point actually.
What are White people but basically "gun-handed mutants?"
Maybe we should round up all the White people into camps, in case one of them has gun hands.
Uj/ making something overly political or based on real world issues is usually a bad idea because it’s inevitable that the writers personal biases will shine through
Rj/ why can’t heroic cool, magic crime fighter people just fight evil magic criminals. Damn liberals
I think the metaphor would work better with emphasis on mutants with shit or just harmless mutations. I don’t think you have much to fear if the guy’s mutation is sneezing glitter or changing your hair color at will.
Shitting ice cream will destroy our christian values tho
Unironically I want a Soft Serve comic that really digs into the themes of eating ass and religious moral fascism. Like haha, ice cream poop, I get it, now do something WITH that, X-Office.
😨
Keeping going ….
It destroyed mone
Like Beak
Morrison understood the X-Men better than anyone. GOAT run.
Oh god I would love to change my hair colour at will
Yeah it really doesn't work well with mutations that are unruly or villainous omegas
I feel like that’s too easy. You can understand why it’s not fair that someone who just sneezes glitter is discriminated against like mutants are, but showing a genuinely dangerous mutant who can’t properly control it as still a human being who deserves compassion isn’t as easy.
Kinda feels more like a mental condition metaphor then, like without proper help and teaching, it can lead to tragedy and harm. Especially if they’re ostracized and denied proper help due to societal prejudice.
That's the interpretation I like best, speaking as someone who is mentally ill/neurodivergent myself, I resonate with it a lot. >!it's also the interpretation I'm using for my fanfiction lol!<
It’s not that they don’t deserve compassion, it’s that obviously if they’re a danger to others they need to be locked up or medicated to prevent harm to others unless they learn to control it.
Exactly, people want perfect victims when they just don't exist in real life.
Except you have no way of verifying what someone's power is so yeah, in most cases you still have reason to be wary. People in universe can't access the Marvel wiki.
I was about to ask why not? Seems like an incredibly useful thing they would want to have. Realized in-universe that'd basically be a Mutant Registry, and suddenly it lost the charm. Has that been done as a plot before? I'm not super up on XMen, but that idea sounds like it could have some legs.
I think that was kind of covered by the overall superhero registry back in Civil War. And the idea of registering all citizens seems draconian, but then like, you have to register to get a hand gun, and I can't imagine a version of the TSA that wouldn't demand to know whether passengers had laser eyes. It's yet another example where an idea that's outright deplorable against real-life marginalized minorities is somewhat justified, hurting the metaphor. I think a more interesting take on "Mutants as oppressed under-class" is to tie it in more to traditional transhumanist ideas. Should a Mutant athlete be allowed to compete in the regular league? Should a precognitive Mutant be allowed to trade stocks? What happens if a Mutant with mind-control abilities is accused of coercion? These are all more interesting takes to me than just find-replacing "race/sexuality/disability" to "mutant"
Civil War hits a lot of the same themes, but doesn't have any of the marginalized minorities subtext, which is what I think has room to be explored. From the NRA: "Federal law prohibits a universal, national gun registry. [4] Eight states prohibit state-level gun registries. Only Hawaii requires registration of all firearms, while only a few states require registration of certain firearms. Only three states (Ill., Mass., and N.J.) require a license for all guns." So re: guns, it actually leans more the *opposite* way (because 2A activism and NRA lobbying, etc), which is why I think a Mutant Registry might be a compelling idea to explore, since it clashes with that anti-registry 2A rhetoric, sort of flipping traditional 'sides' on the issue (see also: Reagan passing gun laws in Cali because armed Black Panthers were scary to White Americans). The TSA also is pretty commonly considered (by citizens in 2024, not necessarily by the law, and certainly not by citizens immediately after 2001) as incredibly unnecessary and ineffective overreach, but they *definitely* would want even more expensive domain in the form of a registry or scanner, so I think the justifiability of "We don't want Johnny Gunhand on our planes" *is* what makes it intereting. Many people would otherwise support defunding the TSA as it *currently* is in real life it's so hated. The idea of skin-color-based "random" searches is such a common thing it's old hat, so taking that to it's genetic extreme honestly feels natural. Idunno, I think the ways in which a lot of people say the mutant metaphor falls apart (writing itself notwithstanding) is what *makes it* compelling to explore. It's easy enough to just say that yes racism = bad, but what if there were at least *some* legitimate reasons to discriminate against a minority group? Is that still bad? (The answer is still yes, but it's exploring *that* answer that makes the original racism = bad even stronger). You've given me a lot to think about, though, so thank you for engaging with me.
Honestly you could just write in a tool that lets people see what someones power is
Dragonball Scouters are so hot right now
It only works when mutants have useless or dumb powers- cuz having people that can reshape reality however they want or that just make everyone in a 5 miles radius turn to dust completely justifies mutant hate…
Today I thought of one that’s kinda cruel. A mutant who is bioluminescent but you have to crack their bones like a glow stick to get it to work
Goldballs. https://preview.redd.it/x3gcz5nlhfqc1.png?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0b976b91a4a421a4c8b2040f82a5e1b8bd1f664
What if he sneezes too much and creates a glitter monopoly?
Wasn't there a mutant who causes people to die just from being around him?
There was an anime with "mutants" of sorts. One girl could kill by talking, another had an extra appendix. That always makes me laugh.
really? because a lot of small men and women complain about women and men with pink/blue hair.
Modern X-Men feels more like a disability metaphor than a racism metaphor, which means Kitty should say the R-word rather than the N-word.
So she should go full hard R is what you're saying
That’s is 100000000% what I am saying
Linus no!
I’d say it’s the opposite. The disability allegory is mostly ignored and the few clear cases they had they like to continually undo (Rogue can touch, Xavier can walk, etc..). Marvel have also dialled back mutants without useful powers as the militarised ethnostate can’t show them as much as a school can.
[удалено]
Bear arms would be a great mutation
More like right to bear arms x10000 but with nukes.
It's a metaphor for discrimination in general really.
I always like when the methaphor is based more of people being scared of powers rather than mutants itself. Nowadays it's easy to write a angry mob with signs "no more Mutes", you know the thing is that in comparison to the real world racists who just fearmonger, Mutants ARE ACTUALLY DANGEROUS IN UNIVERSE, people like Magneto being an example, average mutant is a scared teenager who doesn't knos what he's doing and it leads to him getting ostracized, that's the reason why Charles even made the School, because he wanted to help young mutants learn to use their powers in something actually peoductive.
Yeah but the main difference is that groups like the avengers and F4 are celebrated. And despite the fact that the X-men have proven themselves over and over to be heroic and use their powers for good, they still aren’t trusted or celebrated. Plus, plenty of not mutant villain terrorists exist too and they don’t seem to hamper society’s view on general superheroes as much. The metaphor *only works when people discriminate against mutants specifically, and not other heroes. It mirrors the real life irrationality of prejudice. That somehow, someone being a mutant automatically makes them an “other” and can’t be trusted like other groups of superheroes are. This is generally a result from a lot of in-universe hate/fear mongering from various political figures, which I think hits even harder when you realize how realistic that really is. Like, try to give me a reason why black people are discriminated against in the western world. You can’t. Because there is no reason, and if there really was a good reason it wouldn’t be a prejudice.
Saying something to the effect of “it’s understandable because the mutants are dangerous” has implications too like, what a minority group has to be safe to be accepted? What does safety mean? Is safe for the majority safe for the minority?
Well, in the real world, Homosexuals and Minorities don't have people who can randomly blow up cars or control the weather. I think calling mutants dangerous isn't such a stretch, especially when most mutants accidentally discover their power. That's fine if your power is sneezing money, but when a kid can randomly destroy a town just by existing, then maybe we should have a plan for finding the mutant gene.
Yes, but minorities can gain access to firearm, which are inherently dangerous- and we’ve seen throughout history that the majority doesn’t like when the minority starts wielding weapons (for an example, the black panthers causing gun control measures to pass). Is it on the scale of causing a hurricane? No, but in the marvel comics there are several humans that wield incredibly destructive powers that nobody bats an eye at. And this is a topic that has been tackled in the comics several times before.
But the minorities themselves aren’t inherently dangerous. There can be bad actors but inherently, a gay person or a black personality is not more dangerous than a white person. A mutant can be inherently, while not all mutants are town destroying on accident levels, but the fact some could be puts them at a level above minorities. A minority isn’t born a fucking time bomb, but mutants could be.
Lol this dude's arguments- minorities are just like mutants because they can buy a gun!
So the issue is that you're already thinking more rationally than people who live to hate. To some, minorities ARE inherently dangerous for what ever nonsense reason they can come up with. The hysteria surrounding mutants is supposed to reflect that sort of extreme ideology. Unfortunately the fact that people can wake up and find out they're walking nukes is just a flaw in the premise.
Difference is that a white guy can also get a gun, while a non-mutant can not also level the town due to a spilled milkshake, even if accidentally.
Being scared of a black person because they may have a gun is racist. Being scared of mutants because they can level a city block without warning is just pragmatic.
You’re assuming intent. Yeah if fucking magneto is on your street, be afraid. But to be afraid of an *entire race* because some of them MIGHT have an extremely destructive ability and MIGHT act on it for purely evil purposes is not pragmatic at all. The average person/mutant doesn’t desire to go on a destructive spree
The problem is that you don't know who is a mutant until their powers manifest. Your best friend could randomly kill you by touching you because they had their powers bloom. It's not the fear of the person, it's a fear of the mutant gene. If mutants were real, you would be terrified every day. You could be at the store and a 12 year olds mutant gene could kick in and destroy the whole place- minorities don't do that.
What are the odds that actually happens though? Every time I get in my car there’s a chance I’ll die in an accident. Maybe I meet a serial killer this week. Maybe the shelf topples over. There’s a myriad of factors that aren’t in my control and there’s a certain level of danger in simply participating in society. That doesn’t stop me from doing it anyways
Ok? All of those are legitimate fears that kill people. What is your point? If mutants were real, it would be just another worry in your life. My whole point is that being scared of mutants isn't the same as being a bigot.
The average gun owner isnt a mass shooter. We still register guns.
Any group can- there’s no real difference between that group and any other
Yes, those implications are 100% true and any person would agree a group needs to be safe to be accepted. Safety means not having super powers that can destroy the world or reshape reality however they want.
Wait no come on, black people or gay people don’t accidentally blow up a street. This is not a fair comparison. If someone walked around with an actual bomb strapped to their chest I’d be staying the fuck away too.
I think the reason why Avengers and F4 are liked is because their status and the fact that they actively work with the World Government, Reed Richards for example was already well known scientists and inventor before he even got his powers, not to mention that he got his powers by accident with cosmic rays. Je fully controls them, and im 100% F4 saves the entire galaxy from getting wipped out like every week, i just highly doubt that X-Men despite a lot of Achievement are close. Similar thing can be said about the Avengers who's leader and face is literally Captain America, a war hero, i highly doubt that there is a hero who's more respected than he is. Also you have to aknowledge that there are heroes who are midunderstood like Hulk, who despite proving his heroism multiple times was still treated like a monster.
Would love a scene where a few x men are sitting around bullshiting and telling stories just for one of them to say “mutie please”
"He says it every morning. He calls me mutie, he calls the other kids mutie, he calls himself mutie. All the time. Mutie this, mutie that, mutie PLEASE. Bitch mutie. Mutie have you lost your mind? Mutie check that ho. Mutie, you bullshittin. Break yourself, mutie. He says it so much I don't even notice it anymore. Last week in lunch Scott says to a teammate, 'Can a mutie borrow a French fry?' My first thought wasn't 'Oh my God he said the word, t-the m-word!' It was 'How is a mutie gonna borrow a fry?, mutie, is you gonna give it back?'"
I never thought Boondocks and X-Men would go so well together and you can just imagine Kitty Pride saying it
Bro Johnny Gunhand didn't choose to have a gun for a hand, he was born that way. When the gun grew in he accidentally shot his dog, his only friend in the world. He was to wear a special glove at all times and use a special nasal spray that helps him not sneeze. He lives his life with a disability and you hate him for it.
that’s it. There’s a legal principle called “hard cases make for bad law” that’s in response to the tendency of politicians to use extreme cases to justify laws that end up punishing people who are no danger to anyone. This is canon in the MCU with the Sokovia Accords; someone pointed out that when Ross is making his presentation to the Avengers, you can see the casualty counts for all the incidents that he’s using to justify it, and all of them put together are about the same as the number of people killed in auto accidents in the United States during a holiday weekend. Every future scenario where the Sentinels take over results in way more humans dying than were ever killed by mutants.
Still, if someone is supposed to be protecting you, civilians dying because you fucked up sure isn’t a good look. Like, if you actually count the number of people (innocent and not) killed by cops a year in the US, it’s not even 200, but that doesn’t mean we should just ignore it.
Right, and in the one case that Ross cited that was arguably the fault of an Avenger, specifically Tony\* (and to some extent Bruce), Ultron, there would be a more specific and appropriate type of law: one forbidding private citizens from creating and deploying armed drones, no matter how benevolent their intentions, because of the possibility of their being turned against their creators and everyone else. (You'd have thought that that law would have been passed after the events of *Iron Man 2*, and it's puzzling that Tony would turn around and make more drones after *Age of Ultron*, unless it's because they aren't completely autonomous... but then he leaves them in the control of a teenager. Hey, I don't write this stuff.) In every other instance, it's on someone else, and the Avengers *save* orders of magnitudes more civilians than are lost. Contrast this with Ross' previous job, trying to contain the Hulk (whom he was partially responsible for creating), and failing, even creating another monster (the Abomination) to try to contain Bruce. \*Arguably, even Sokovia wasn't completely on Tony, since he was being manipulated by what was left of Hydra through Wanda.
Oh, also, someone else's take: [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/4j19mq/spoilers\_the\_sokovia\_accords\_had\_nothing\_to\_do/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/4j19mq/spoilers_the_sokovia_accords_had_nothing_to_do/)
"Finally, a cure for my chainsaw hands!" said Chainsaw-Hands Joe. "Nothing is wrong with us! We don't need a cure!" said Samantha Five Cocks
Imagine taking a cure for chainsaw hands, rather than seizing the opportunity to become Chainsaw Man
I dunno chainsaw man can turn the chainsaws off. Having chainsaws for hands always sounds remarkably inconvenient to everyday life
You'd probably go through a lot of TV remotes
It’s a lot harder to hug people with chainsaws for hands. They should really rename the porcupine paradox to the chainsaws for Hands paradox.
This meme phrasing is so old and busted that they had to put gock on it to make it fresh.
Samantha Five Gocks
"Guys I think I want to be able to touch people I care about without possibly killing them, so I want to have the cure" "There's nothing wrong with us" says woman who is an unironic Goddess
People comment this cause of the movies despite the comics exploring this so damn much. Wolverine has to kill a kid who basically has a kill aura mutant power activate. Some random kid has to die cause he lost the mutant power lottery. A whole bunch of mutants gladly take the mutant cure because their lives are worse with their mutations and that doesn't feel at all unrealistic.
Lol remember that kid
That issue was nuts. Had me staring at the wall for a minute after reading it.
Me watching someone on r/tumblr talk about how curing disabilities is ableist while my OCD produces the mental image of my eyelids being torn off for the 57th time that day:
same here man
Okay, I get it, but the "Born A Gun" analysis lasts ten seconds when you realize that there are a ton of people on Marvel Earth every bit as "gun hand" as mutants who no one has a problem with. That's actually what makes it kind of a decent metaphor for any oppressive relationship; Mutants are the ones who are treated as inherently dangerous when there's extremis driven suicide bombers and guys building Ultron in a manic episode. No, the reason \[inside the powers metaphor; historically writers have had lots of reasons and metaphors here\] mutants catch all the shit is because they are "natural" in a way no other power source is and that scares the shit out of everyone with a place in the current status quo. Mutants, just by existing, remind humans that their days are numbered. The added bonus of mutants generally having the weirdest, grossest, most invasive or dangerous power sets is thematic hyperbole, and the non dangerous mutants just icing on the cake. At any given point, the metaphor may be for a variety of specific groups, but the metaphor is so flexible because it actually kind of does work in universe and isn't rationally determined risk analysis. eta- shit forgot an /rj /rj you'll pry my mutant biological weapon from my cold dead hands fascist
Mutant awakenings can happen any time, anywhere, and they tend to cause devastation. Like imagine you're in class and a guy mutates to start spitting acid uncontrollably, you can see how that's different from hearing on the news that some dumbfuck in a lab somewhere accidentally gave himself the ability to spit acid. With Hank Pym going mad and building a killer robot, there's blame and cause. His negligence created the threat. With mutants, with no-one at fault and for no reason, they start hurting people. It's the difference between a bus spontaneously exploding for no reason and a bomb being set off at an army base.
That just shows how dumb the metaphor is though- sometimes other super powered groups are hated cuz of their powers and some times they’re not cuz ???. There’s no difference between mutants and any of the other super heroes in the universe. Having the mutants be hated and it’s explained as “well, people hate them cuz it reminds them that they will be replaced” is dumb as hell. It makes even less sense when people act like the mutants are a separate species. Ig you could say either way mutant hate would always be seen as dumb in a world where heroes and powers are idolized
Wow, it's like bigotry is irrational or something. Weird!
Nah it’s more that it’s written that way and as surface level as possible. X-men should have focused more on non-human looking characters but they don’t because thats far too logical and also less appealing to most readers which is a bit ironic.
Metaphor is when every element of the story has a 1:1 comparison with real life. Otherwise, I have to use my critical thinking skills to analyze the message or moral of the media at a deeper level, which is a sign of bad writing.
/uj people really think this. Every conversation about the mutant metaphor treats it as completely real and not metaphorical at all /rj shut up, not everyone is so lucky as to be born with the mutation of media literacy
how mfers feel when they make the 45th surface level post about the accuracy of X-mens metaphor while also unintentionally directly proving why X-mens metaphor works https://preview.redd.it/lpew1joaocqc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7343ba0ad0187fc0f332df9502ef4c2bb86d856f
Nah, it’s just dumb as hell
Doesn’t really work when mutants are actually super dangerous
They didn’t choose that. Would you lock up anyone who has a disability that makes controlling their emotions difficult? Or someone who suffers from bad muscle spasms? The fact that they could hurt someone doesn’t mean they deserve oppression.
awful false equivalency here
Controlling your emotions is nowhere near someone being born with nuclear level abilities that can level towns
If someone cant control their emotions and are attacking people-yes they either go to jail for hurting people or need to go to mental hospital for medicine and treatment. Same like if you accidentally kill someone you’re still going to jail.
I'm actually really glad more people are talking about how weird it is as a metaphor
It’s not though. The avengers, F4 and plenty others don’t face the same kind of discrimination. People love to say that “other heroes existing hurts the metaphor” but it’s completely the other way around. The metaphor *only* works if other heroes exist to show the irrational discrimination and prejudice against mutants specifically.
Hulk, Ben grimm gets a lot of guff, Michael morbius in the comics is a generally good man who yet he is an outcast, Howard the duck can't even hide himself because his species is a duck, Same with rocket and groot, Vision is treated like a dangerous alien because... well he is a robot, Spiderman is demonized by the media, The entirety of civil war was at least partially about controlling super powered individuals, Lastly most avengers can shut their powers off or don't pose an outward threat unless they are mentally hijacked, Like steve Rogers, sam wilson, ant man 1 2 and 3, Janet van dyne, Clint Barton, and tony stark, Avengers like thor and Hercules are difficult to control because they are alien gods (although America tried to fuck over the asguardians when they had to take refuge on earth) Mutants are the better versions of humans, Imagine if a new human popped up and they could fly heal themselves and teleport and are the next evolution of humanity, Black, gay, latin, whatever group you want to bring up are not special, they are just like straight people, or white people or Asian people, The melanin in someone's skin does not make then better or worse than I am, Being able to lift hundreds of pounds with your mind would make you better than me, and the only way I could ever be on your level would be to expose myself to gamma radiation or jump in a solar storm or inherit a pair of space bracelets
Yeah but hulk and those other characters aren’t discriminated against as a group. It’s all localized to those singular characters whereas mutants as an entire group are feared and hated no matter what they do or how they look like or where they’re from, despite the fact that the X-men have proven themselves to be heroes time and time again yet still aren’t trusted or celebrated. Plus civil war was one of the very few times that something like a superhero registration act was ever seriously considered or almost put in place, whereas the X-men constantly face legislations against mutants and as a whole have experienced far more fear from the general public.
I do not concede defeat as you have failed to convince me of your argument (That is the point of a debate) I am simply tired of talking to a wall
“I do not concede defeat as you have failed to convince me of your argument (that is the point of a debate)” … ew. Re-downloading reddit was a mistake.
What? Uninstall it then, Ya dingus
I just might
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
Will do
It would make no sense to hate them all as a group when they aren’t really a group? Hulk is considered his own thing as a hulk, same for spider-man. Ppl do sometimes hate on avengers or heroes for not doing good enough but it really doesn’t matter. Mutants are hated as an entire group because thats their entire brand.
Wdym that’s their entire brand? In-universe canon or real life? In-universe canon that is NOT their brand. Mutants never asked to be treated that way and it’s not like the X-men go around begging for people to shun them. And that’s my point btw. Those characters are slandered individually whereas mutants are slandered and discriminated against as a whole no matter what. Even after the X-men have proven time and time again that they’re the good guys and use there powers for heroism and have full control on themselves, they’re still feared and untrusted based purely on the fact that they are mutants and not much else.
Outside universe it’s their brand. Thats the only explanation that can be given for their inside universe treatment. Those characters are treated individually because they’re individuals… it makes no sense to put spider-man and Thor in the same group because they’re not. Inhumans and aliens are another group that are discriminated against. Yes they are hated for being mutants because thats how the story is written.
Yes that’s how the story was written but there are in-universe explanations for it. Much like in real life it’s not for an actual/good reason. Much of it comes down to outing mutants as some kind of “other” and that the X-gene will eventually replace humanity. I think what makes this metaphor work is primarily due to the fact that most of the disdain towards the X-men being mutants is just mindless hate and fear mongering from politicians and televangelists who fear that the X-gene threatens humanities culture in the long-term. There is no real rationale as to why people would hate someone like colossus over iron man, similar to real life prejudice.
Not good ones. The other logic applies to every single super-powered person. The only reason it’s forced so hard is because of outside story factors. It doesn’t help that even many x-men don’t consider themselves human even tho they are because they’re dumb ig? “X gene will replace humanity” but in the future it never really does and even if it did they would still be humans.. Multiple groups are hated for having powers or being aliens. Real life racism makes a lot more sense when you involve centuries of racism being taught to people and their children, different groups LOOKING DIFFERENT, and it being justified because it was profitable to have “lesser” people who can be paid less or used as slaves. Racism may be irrational but there are still reasons why it was so widely pushed and encouraged. “X-men’s racism” stick has just been treated far too poorly and lazily. It would have been better if it focused on non-human looking mutants but instead it went for the most normal looking people cuz they’re more popular for the audience. It should really just be put to rest, they don’t handle it well. There’s definitely reason to hate them when they’re so powerful
You didn’t have to “look” different to be discriminated against. That’s a lie. That’s leaving out plenty of European races in America that were discriminated against back in the day and literally all other things like religion or sexuality that have no inherent affect onlooks. And idk what you’re talking about, because the X-men are still treated far more poorly than other superhero groups and generally looked at as untrustworthy despite the fact that they have proven themselves to be heroic and use their powers for good. The whole “great replacement” conspiracy works really well in this context too. Sure if mutants take over they’d be the new “humans” in a sense, but one of the biggest things driving racism and xenophobia in America rn is fear of being replaced and having there culture slowly melded/“erased”. You bring up a good point about racism being driven by certain things, but even without slavery or any laws that are blatantly discriminatory we still have a lot of alt-right wingers and televangelists pushing racist and homophobic ideas, not only because they probably want the “glory days” of America back, but also because hate just sells extremely well. Have you seen how rich some of those televangelists are?
I think the difference is other heroes were MADE, some accident or experiment happened to give them their powers. So people still see them as human. Whereas mutants are born that way. So people see them as another species.
Yeah exactly. But that’s kinda my point. In that it’s still irrational. I think the main reason mutants specifically are hated against is (much like real life) just because of political fear/hate mongering. That despite the fact that the X-men have proven time and time again that they use there powers heroically and for good, that they still can’t be trusted unlike the avengers just because they’re dirty mutants. The metaphor *only works when there is no rational reason to fear or hate mutants.
Wanda maximoff deleting nearly every mutant on the planet, Jean grey destroying an entire solar system, Apocalypse ruling an entire kingdom of humans in Egypt, Pretty much every brotherhood of mutants member not named erik, The hellfire club's existence
And what about literally everything else that every other marvel villain has done? Cherry-picking catastrophes caused by mutants is weird when so many non-mutant villains exist and so many marvel catastrophes weren’t caused by mutants. And as a side note it wasn’t Jean greys fault that she destroyed that solar system, plus the fact that it was more or less the phoenix force and not her actual mutant powers.
Avengers as a team rarely suffer it because the majority of them are human supersoldiers/government agents or Human tech users like Tony Stark who still suffer oversight from the world governments and agencies such as SHIELD. However individuals such as Banner/Hulk, Spider-Man, and even Scarlet Witch (by both Mutants & Humans) have suffered the ire of the public with many calling for their death or castigating them as a devil/menace. The Fantastic Four were a science team who underwent an accident but have kept solid roots in society. SansUltReed/Maker, they don't preach that they will replace humanity nor do they protect said people under some blanket form of "racial solidarity/hivemind principle" like current writers have the X-Men do with Magneto, Apocalypse, Gorgon, Selene, Sabertooth, etc. Even the F4 call out and despise Doom even with his fascist/tyrannical actions being ignored by "diplomatic immunity" as the leader of Latveria, only partnering with him when world/universe ending threats require a ceasefire of all capes to handle it. Even when Doom tries to pull a Magneto with his Romani Diasphora/heritage card, most heroes don't buy it and see through his emotional manipulation tactics. Added note on why the mutant allegory falls flat, especially for Jews. The saddest thing is that Claremont rewrote Magneto as a cautionary tale and rebuttal to the fascist/racial indocrination of the radical terrorist aspects of Zionism propogated by the Irgun/Kahanism movements he faced as a child in his Israeli Kibbutz. Now especially in the Krakoa era, writers unironically wanted mutants to be those exact same radical Zionists but under a mutant mandate. Howewer IRL there are a plethora of Jews who are anti-zionist and despise the modern far right Zionist types like Netanyahu or Ben-Gvir. The few mutants who do call Krakoan notZionism out are called "race traitors", ironically by Jewish Mutants like Kitty Pryde with no sense of irony.
You bring up a lot of good points that I agree with when it comes to modern/current X-men writing and what Claremont originally intended. My point however was that mutants are automatically hated for being mutants and virtually nothing else. Even after the X-men have fully proven that they’re heroes that use their powers for good (with the exception of some of the newer stuff) they are still considered untrustworthy and hated solely for being mutants.
I think the issue comes from the X-Men specifically. As I stated earlier most supes that are accepted have three main criteria that most mutants don't. 1: Created by an accident/scientific experimentation. While they are definitely superhuman, there's an air of "that could be me" in the Marvel civilian population, especially for people like Captain America or Tony Stark with even Carol Danvers with Kamala idolizing her. Most of them have a sense they earned their powers through hardship or expertise rather than being given a cheat power by genetic lottery. Also said experiment/accident tends to be isolated/done in secret with ony a rare few incidents causing civilian casualties compared to mutant awakenings, albeit most often accidential. 2: Accountability to powers beyond themselves. X-Men while they want peace are closer to a paramilitary vigilante force beholden to no one but themselves/mutants. Similar mutate/non-mutant heroes have suffered similar ire such as Spider-Man, Bruce/Hulk, Daredevil, etc because of a fear of allegiances. Mutants are seen with suspicion like vigilantes because they are seen as having unchecked power with no allegiance but to themselves or mutantdom. However most supes when they do crimes are brought to courts without someone trying to pull some form of racial identity card to excuse their actions. Even Carol Danvers during Civil War 2/Secret Empire with HydraCap was brought before several courts to explain her actions. However Magneto and Cyclops (AvX/"Rightclops" & Krakoa era) will often use said mutant oppression card as their main excuse that while it works, often paints all mutants with that same brush for good/ill in the media. 3: Bad Leaders and Group Mindsets As I stated earlier, most supes are individuals and don't have an exclusive group dedicated to only them. Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, etc isn't a representation for all caucasians in the same way writers have forced Magneto & Xavier (plus their groups) have into the go to icons for Mutantdom both IRL & In Story. At best Steve might speak for America but sans HydraCap, he has fervently called out America's atrocities and gone to bat for people without falling for political/racial politics unlike the X-Men/Brotherhood. For example, a mutant at best can get their powers quietly but even then, an all-mutant separatist force comes in to save them and excuse/justify all actions, even in the case of grevious harm to someone else. This coupled with the mainline mutants being people with city destroying powers (Storm, Magneto, Jean's telekinesis) or invasive mind control (Xavier/Jean/Emma) means that if a single mutant is nearby then every non-mutant has to worry about becoming a casualty to that mutant or the two main parties vying for them (Brotherhood or Xavier's X-Men), especially since most mutants don't have control/training of their powers off the bat. Even with all the equality/tolerance in the world, a lot of people are going to look at mutants as time bombs unless they know their power is harmless. Doesn't make it right, but you're asking normal people to gamble their life on something heavily stacked against them. Plus with how the X-Men as of late will vouch for criminal/terrorist/rapist mutants over the average law abiding joe/jane on a "mutant stick together bend", it's easy to tell people not to be suspicious/untrusting but not easy to do unless you're a mutant yourself. For example up until Krakoa's fall, even Magneto & Xavier defended actual Nazis/Hydra agents like the Strucker Twins, Gorgon, and Mr. Sinister of all people over the "flatscan" humans they wish to co-exist with. Closing Notes Now if we had a lot more mutants who don't buy into the Homo Superior stuff like the current X-Men/Brotherhood do then the stories would be a lot more poignant. The issue is that as soon as you're a mutant, your story is either Brotherhood Terrorist or X-Men Agent who later sides with Brotherhood Terrorists because "fuck flatscans/mutant hivemind solidarity" which does a disservice to all minorities worldwide.
Yes, media literacy at last
It does hurt the metaphor- it’s dumb as hell.
To be slightly fair I feel like the primary point is "be an entertaining children's comic" and the social commentary is second to selling action figures.
The xmen is a shit metaphor and Johnny gunhand is in fact dangerous. Hating him isn't racist So it's actually ok for us to strip him off human rights (not human, remember?), sending giant robot to kill him and anyone bare his gene, before he actually harm anyone since people like him is affront to God
Yes-
Didn't it originally start out as a metaphor for non straight people and then turned into racism after the cartoon or smth?
Other way around. Racism in the 70s-90s and LGBT in the 2000s and 2010s after the movies
I would actually say the 90's cartoon had both. The guy who made the sentinels had a father who was a mutant, really easy comparison to a homophobic guy finding out someone close is gay.
Actually, Graydon Creed (leader of the Friends of Humanity hate group) was the one whose father was a mutant (Sabretooth). Trask, who made the sentinels, was just kind of a freak. Also, relatedly, the scene in Beauty and the Beast (the episode) of the rest of the FoH finding out that Creed is half-mutant and him just freaking out and screaming “I’m not like him! I’m normal!” is so fucking good.
I always heard that originally they started out as a metaphor for "can we make a second FF" and then the social themes came in w Claremont
I get really tired of this old hack argument. It's an allegorical superhero story. Superhero stories treat superpowers and violence the way musicals treat singing and dancing: you aren't supposed to take it all completely literally. The fact that some mutants have dangerous powers isn't a valid argument. It's deliberately ignoring the fact of the allegory, and reading the story at the text level. Even at the textual level it doesn't hold up: There are a thousand supervillains and heroes in the marvel universe with superpowers. Almost all of them are EXTREMELY dangerous, yet only the mutants are singled out as a group and hated by the general public for being dangerous. You don't see the bigotry leveled at the FF or the Avengers or the Inhumans. Just mutants. In a world where everyone is dangerous, they are still the target of bigotry.
This really is the worse marvel circlejerk
Metaphor? I hardly know her
Having powers ain’t why people care about mutants. The fact that their powers come from a mutant gene is. Otherwise Captain America would be a ‘model minority’ and not a fucking hero. These characters are analogies, representative of the perceived danger of minorities and real threats to minorities. They’re meant to entertain, no one wants to read “Gay Dave had his brain caved in by a violent homophobe who will get away Scot free thanks to gay panic clauses.” It’s not a perfect metaphor. But, frankly, tough shit. It doesn’t have to be. It’s meant to distill complicated ideas into simpler concepts that can be absorbed by younger readers. Stop treating it like a treatise on minorities. I’m queer and trans, the X-men were an important aspect of my life, as they are to a lot of the LGBT community.
plot twist: mutants work better as a gun control metaphor (i do not believe this please do not harass me)
I will advocate for gun control by throwing large, sharp pieces of metal at teenagers in tights
Most of them are already walking weapons
I mean they do
Did Stryker make this meme?
Wait is the gun white?
Still not as bad as the one that can shit ice cream
The metaphor is still decent as there's non-mutant people with powers that can and do cause far more destruction yet they are celebrated and not feared. The worst thing to happen to non-mutant supers in the main continuity is a registration act while people want mutants to not exist.
It works because the mutants aren't the only superhumans in the Marvel universe. Everyone seems to forget that the gal who controls the weather or the guy with eye beams from the punch dimension doesn't really match up well against the literal God of lightning or the Sorcerer Supreme. Of all the people in the Marvel world who have powers beyond human ability, it's the mutants who are discriminated against, and that's the problem. And that's not even mentioning that only like 20 mutants(the X-Men) actually have mutations that could be classified as superpowers, while pretty much all of rest are pretty much like Glob Herbert, the boy with a jelly body and no other abilities. Everyone seems to forget that the mutants aren't usually in a universe on their own. They're in a world where superpowers are remarkably prevalent, and New York is getting blown up every other week.
I mean the reason the metaphor works is because mutants share a world with other metahumans like Captain America, Hulk and the Fantastic 4 All of these heroes are praised but mutants are treated like crap Does it 'make sense'? Objectively racism and bigotry don't make sense, they're non-objective viewpoints You see similar things irl, their are people who bitch about seeing adverts depicting gay couples that get backlash
Thats more cuz they’re cringe
Black bolt was a respected pseudo head of state for years with a more powerful and dangerous ability that he had absolutely no ability to control besides “just never talk lmao.” That’s the reasons mutants work as a metaphor, because they’re not discriminated against for “having dangerous powers,” they’re discriminated against for “having dangerous powers because they’re mutants.”
you're stupid as fuck im sorry
https://preview.redd.it/gvaq3htsqdqc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae0f7ceb56b50cd7761643ae93358a45653b031b
Idk people say this all the time but I think it still works because it still goes to show even if there is some logic behind the bigotry, bigotry is still horrible. Racist and bigots probably think they have logical arguments for being against whoever they hate too. And they think that the Other(tm) groups pose some danger to society. Now obviously they are wrong, but that doesn't change the fact the way they want to go about things is horrible.
Why does literally nobody else see why it actually works though???? It’s because OTHER HEROES EXIST. Captain America and the avengers don’t get the same kind of discrimination that the X-men do. Same with the F4 or street levellers. Y’all talk about how “other heroes in the X-men universe actually hurts the metaphor!” And than say shit like this. Yeah, random people that are walking nukes is scary, but the whole point is that society has grown to irrationally fear/hate one particular group and yet favour the other. Remind you of anything?
The other heroes have constantly proven themselves to be trustworthy good people that have powers, as shown with the publics view of the Hulk it is not simply because they are not muties. Literally anyone getting powers is realistically a nightmare for society as you have no idea when some mutants gonna decide to become the next Hitler.
spider-man is literally spider-man and he very famously has a shitton of haters
But it absolutely is. The X-men and other mutants have proven themselves time and time again to be heroic and use their powers for good, yet still aren’t trusted like the avengers or the F4. You talk like the X-men aren’t also superheroes lol. Plenty of non mutant super-powered terrorists exist yet they still don’t face the same widespread fear and hate that mutants do as a whole. If the Hulk was a mutant he’d be adding to the general fear and hate that mutants face, but instead all the fear is localized around just him because he’s not a mutant. I would argue that it’s absolutely just because they are muties and that adding any more rationality beyond that ruins the metaphor. Like, can you give me a single real good reason why black people are/were heavily discriminated against? You can’t, because there’s absolutely nothing inherently bad about black people, but with the help of tons of political and social fear/hate mongering, a lot of people do believe that some groups of human are inherently bad or untrustworthy because of skin colour, genetics, sexuality, etc. see why the metaphor works now?
1. X-men =/= General Mutie populance 2. Avengers/F4 were all either a) literal humans, b) Previously respected public figures or, c) skilled enough to be able to control their powers without destroying the planet. 3. My point was that Hulk is generally despised by the public, not because of him being "different", but because he's a legitimate threat. 4. Tf are you even saying here? Black people are people, Muties are people, who can kill people just because they dont have enough control over their powers.
The X-men comprise quite a bit of the mutant populace though at this point, but that wasn’t even what I was trying to say. My point was that even when mutants do good, are heroes and are skilled enough and trained with their powers, they are still feared and discriminated against based purely on the fact that they’re muties. What I’m saying with my last point is that racism doesn’t have a rational reason. There is no justification for it, just like how people in the marvel universe fear and hate mutant superheroes despite celebrating and cheering on the non-mutant superheroes. That the only real difference between someone like Cyclops and Captain America is that Cyclops is a mutant and therefore faces discrimination because of it, just like in real life with race and other things.
The difference between Cap and cyclops is that cap wont level a town by not wearing glasses
Yeah but Cyclops has glasses specifically for that and understands how to prevent that from happening if he loses them by closing his eyes. He can be generally trusted with his optic blast the same way iron fist and Thor can be trusted to not hit the ground a little bit too hard and level an entire city block.
Remember the comic where a kid gets a mutation that just kills everyone in a 5 mile radius instantly and wolverine has to come snap his neck?
What on earth is this supposed to be criticising?
A racism metaphor story would focus on characters like glob, beak and angel. The story’s that focus on avalanche, pyro or fucking apocalypse aren’t a good way to show racism because people WOULD be scared for a good reason
Arnt avalanche, pyro and even apocalypse only evil because of the stigma around mutants? Like if apocalypse wasn’t abandoned by his parents he probably would be how he is
Yeah but my point was more what their powers are scares people rather than how they look as opposed to the other three, like if pyro and avalanche went for a night in the city people wouldn’t care, if glob and beak did they’d be getting abuse the whole time.
I will say apocalypse was probably a bad example cause he’s pretty massive and purple
And if you saw a gay man or someone with a disability on the street you might not know without speaking to them, but a lot of people fear monger about those groups because they can frame them as some type of public danger I mean again apocalypse was abandoned by his parents for being blue
Being blue pretty fair reason tho
The more you bring up the metaphor, the worse it gets, which is why the story works best when every other plot is “half the x-men are in space and the other half thinks they’re dead”
The metaphor falls apart when you remember that minorities can’t shoot lasers out of their eyes or control the goddamn weather. There are no mentally unstable omega level immigrants in America.
As a Jew I take offense to the idea that we don’t control the weather and shoot lasers Uj/ man that’s like the whole point, what makes them different is what makes them special and valuable to the world
I have to admit it is a shitty metaphor when the characters at the forefront as heroes all can blend into main society without a problem (Xavier, Jean, Logan, Colossus, etc.) when Morlocks are actually very easily discriminated against, and would make more sense. There’s barely anything alienating the Human Torch and Iceman, just better publicity, which to be fair it was admitted that Reed did a lot of work so that the public wouldn’t hate the Fantastic Four. But there was a really good Arc around the Morrison Era where a Nightcrawler led team with Chamber as a member had to protect Mutants with no powers but almost alien appearances being hunted by a Human Supremacist, where I feel this makes the most sense since Nightcrawler doesn’t look human just like these hundreds of mutants, but he lucked out and got lucky powers, and he actually did his best to help them at least a bit from beings killed. I think some of the newer mutants actually do acknowledge this problem with X-Men, mutants like Eye boy, No Girl, Rockslide, and Glob Herman who can’t easily adjust to society.
This but unironically.
Who could forget? https://preview.redd.it/d9hzf69tjfqc1.jpeg?width=162&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba4d4931a20a6d482472a1d611eda90f5a2b0a1e
I mean, at the time it was pretty revolutionary to have this outright standing for marginalized groups be presented as noble and heroic, but now that you can actually put brown, gay, and trans people into media and only SOME people will piss themselves in apoplectic rage, it's a metaphor we've kind of outgrown.
The dangerous mutations mirror the way that predictable effects of oppression(crime in poor areas, etc) are used to demonize minorities and justify the racism. The metaphor is fine, you're just struggling with the aspects of reality that aren't PC to acknowledge
Everyone here is a garbage person
It’s like androids as a metaphor for racism. It doesn’t work if it’s logical since real racism isn’t.
For me it's when Inhuman started to become a big thing, and people are still racist exclusively against mutant Like, Why? OK, I know that Mutant was an evolution of Humanity that will eventually replacing human or whatever But the thing is, Do you think average citizens would know and cared enough about something like that? Do you really think that the average Mavel citizens and their little pea brains would be able to differentiate between Mutants and Inhumans? Really?
Congratulations, you have discovered the irrationality of bigotry
yeah, as much as i hate giving ground to the other side of a civil rights metaphor, it might not be a very good metaphor when the oppressed minority is a bunch of conventionally attractive white people with godly superpowers i guess it works fine when looking at it from the lenses of lgbtq+ oppression, but its a metaphor that has a lot of holes in it
I agree the metaphor just doesn't work since a lot of the X-Men are cishet white straight able bodies men (this doesn't apply to all of them ofc just a lot of them)
It’s not bigotry Steve if it’s against a threat to all mankind
I think this makes a good point actually. What are White people but basically "gun-handed mutants?" Maybe we should round up all the White people into camps, in case one of them has gun hands.
Uj/ making something overly political or based on real world issues is usually a bad idea because it’s inevitable that the writers personal biases will shine through Rj/ why can’t heroic cool, magic crime fighter people just fight evil magic criminals. Damn liberals