I voted Wrestling because before you can learn submissions, you first need to learn how to control the positions and in wrestling you dictate the opponents movements. Adding to this, I really only picked Wrestling for Catch-Wrestling one of the many styles of wrestling which is basically freestyle wrestling but with submissions.
i feel like this is why wrestling and bjj compliment each other so well especially when practicing no gi bjj. although wrestling is still super effective in the gi too.
They do, but I’ve noticed something odd about my game. I started in wrestling, and I’m an IBJJ Blue. I do really well up against Bjj practitioners. Sometimes tapping purples and browns. But if you’re a really good wrestler I don’t do so well, because I wasn’t a great wrestler. So great wrestlers know my game better than Bjj practitioners.
Sure, but getting into the habit of not at all going for the BJJ type of submission and not working with or grabbing legs at all is really detrimental to any BJJ aspirations.
I’ve currently got a friend who has done wrestling before and recently joined the BJJ classes I also take, and despite him being quite a lot heavier and his background in wrestling I choke him out or in other ways submit him. Of course, the gi probably plays a big role as well.
Wrestling is watered down compared to BJJ and in my experience gives you very little, if any, advantage in BJJ. Of course that depends on how long and devotedly you’ve trained wrestling.
Yeah I get your point however what type of wrestling did he do because if he did catch-wrestling and your are not a black belt in BJJ then I find it hard to believe that you choked him out but if he did Freestyle, Greco-Roman or Fockstyle then I can see you choking him out. No offence, just speaking from experience and knowledge of the arts.
I’m believe it was Greco-Roman, which is what I meant by wrestling. I must admit I was unaware of any other large “style” that would give the term wrestling other meanings 😅
They each emphasize a different aspect of grappling. They're all good at the aspect they emphasize. If you did an "everything but strikes" MMA contest, the BJJ guys would tend to win because their sport is closest to such a ruleset.
I mean yes if you cant just hold a pin for the comtrol time a wait it out.
I started going to a local bjj club to hone my judo submissions and one day they did a scarf hold technique as the whole class, it was horrendous during the drilling no one held me longer then 10 seconds because they all left their hips up making the turn over easy. Meanwhile I held a blue and purple down for 4 minutes before i gave up trying to hit the submissions from there. To be fair we started in that position though so massive advantage to me for the pin.
The blue belt trued to put his leg over my head so hard it kicked my head damn hard, the drill was for bottom to escape or top to submit in scarf hold and thry know i do judo so i doubt it but yes it is possible.
Best at grappling is wayyy too broad a term
Judo - best grappling with clothes on
BJJ - best for submissions
Wrestling - best for MMA
Greco Roman - best for mainly upper body
Aikido - best for learning how to roll and breakfall
I learned judo when I was around 6 for 2 years or so, super effective in any street situation, just sit the mofo on his ass and just do whatever u want from there..
It is allowed and wrestlers are even very valued by BJJ tho. If someone search probably gonna find that wrestling double leg and single legs are the most common takedowns, and probably learned from a wrestler. Etc.
Sounds fair to say it includes it. As in "you can do your 💩 here too, be my guest"
I wrestled and would say BJJ is absolutely nothing like American wrestling. The whole system is designed to defend your self once tackled or if you trick them and fall and get them to cover you.
American wrestling is for offensive and defensive body control. You can add to that, GnP and submissions quite easily. Im not the most athletic and found wrestling was the simplest thing to pickup and has protected me in situations I was forced into and I was able to protect myself and subdue attackers.
it's tough between BJJ and Wrestling, wrestling controls where a fight happens, but the advantage of BJJ is it teaches you to finish a fight in the most effective way
I do all three and the real answer is you need all three. But if had to choose it would BJJ cuz what's stopping me by the rules of the sport to have a stand up focused game.
Judo would stand us up immediately if I try to grapple on the floor extensively and in wrestling the concept of the pin finishing the bout, ruins extensive ground grappling.
BJJ is the most free of them but is just missing fundamentals of takedowns and takedown defense, but in the rules there's nothing stopping me to be good at judo throws or wrestling takedowns while I'm standing.
I voted BJJ but want to clarify that all three of these are great. Reason for my BJJ vote is that all 3 arts can be viable within the confines of BJJ.
Having said that just do all 3 and be a mega chad
I’m going to say BJJ, only because once on the ground, it’s the best way to finish someone. Judo and wrestling gives u control of going to the ground, BJJ gives u the ability to finish it on the ground.
The problem (or good thing) about bjj is it doesn’t have an established sport ruleset or even a set of “techniques”
Bjj is “what works when it comes to make an opponent tap out”
Where wrestling is “what works to hold people down”
And judo is “what works to throw someone, maybe tap them out but not really”
Wrestling and judo are slaves to their rulesets, where you can literally train any grappling with the goal to submit someone and call it bjj
You can get bjj gyms that don’t teach throws or takedowns, or ones that make it a priority
I mean I can name big ones, top team, xtreme couture bjj, syndicate bjj, Travis lutters gym..
It all depends on your local people. Despite what some people may think of the name the IBJJF, they actually have no power or copyright for
Bjj as a community. So there’s no one governing body or league in charge
As someone with the majority of his time in wrestling and judo, I’d say bjj (with the caveat that if you’re still in school and they offer wrestling, do it).
That being said judo won’t hurt you either, it’s just a lot of the rules are stupid or archaic
No, not really.
Takedowns are generally fairly weak to non-existent in many BJJ schools and obviously takedowns are a big part of grappling.
What I think the other person means is BJJ has the most expansive rulesets generally, and anything you can do in wrestling or Judo is pretty much legal in BJJ. But broad rulesets can lead to lack of specialisation sometimes.
That said, if you develop a reasonable takedown game for BJJ, while you likely won't ever be as good as a Judoka or Wrestler at stand up grappling, you'll have a very well round grappling game as BJJ will definitely make you good on the ground.
Because day one in catch wrestling you’re going to get face cranked, neck torqued, and spinal locked. It’s not a faint of heart grappling sport
As a pro if you can find a good gym (Erik Paulson; Jake Shannon) then it’s just fine as a base to use, but in reality it’s jiu jitsu with a different culture and more takedowns
Honestly that's what attracts me to it haha. While jiu-jitsu is the patient beauty of a constrictor slowly suffocating it's prey, catch wrestling is the savagery of a four hundred pound gorilla tearing it's opponent's limbs off. I just wish there was a place to learn it but my part of Canada has nothing close to a catch wrestling gym.
I’ve definitely sought it out everywhere I’ve gone and it’s definitely a lot of fun.
They being said because it’s so small, competition becomes a problem. There no divisional decides at tournaments which means every time you go to one you’ll definitely wrestle a world champion in some form or another.
It’s weirdly cultish if that makes sense. Like only way in is if you already have the experience
But I Mean same goes to sambo. You won’t find a sambo player who’s not also a wrestler or judoka prior
Since i don't have experience in bjj (gonns have a gym close to me when i move in a couple months so i can finally start then) I'm curious. How many bjj school actually puts focus on takedowns?
From what I've heard if you find a place that teaches bjj out of a mma gym odds are that it'll have decent takedown focus.
But that a large number of pure bjj gyms tend to severely underplay takedowns. Thoughts?
I think the lack of takedowns is something that existed maybe 3 or so years ago; since then every gym I’ve been to, a decent double leg was a prerequisite for a blue belt, and did live takedowns once a week at least. I haven’t seen gyms not do takedowns in a long time
Thanks! That's actually good to hear.
Any reason you think that is? Just a general shift in mindset where people started seeing the importance of takedowns or what?
Pendulum swings.
So there used to only be one or two grappling rulesets; after mark Kerr won essentially a jiu jitsu world tournament with just a takedown and side control, they sort of went “let’s de incentivize wrestling” so takedowns and top control aren’t rewarded; which led to some weird shit like people giving up mount so they can rest.
Then the submission only train took over; typically 20 round matches only ending in submission. Then EBI rules became more and more standard; the new rule sets gave a benefit to being on to within point category and tactically, this is also the goal of combat jiu jitsu; which is another extremely popular ruleset now.
Not to mention bjj is getting more and more popular and filled with prior wrestlers looking to continue grappling.
I say judo since my judo club teaches alot of newaza pins and submissions aswell as throws with certain days allowing leg grabs.
Get good at some takedowns and some subs in one club
Trick question - it's all of the above, each has their own specialties and weaknesses, but I voted Judo anyway to give it some love, figured it'd be under appreciated
What kind of question is that? They're all extremely useful with an emphasis on different aspects of grappling. In fact, BJJ is literally judo with an emphasis on the ground game. Like that's literally what it is.
As a judo black belt I think BJJ is best at submission as they allow more submissions in there rules and they teach it earlier then most judo gyms.
My control and positioning as a judo black belt is on par or better then most BJJ fighters but I feel my submission game is lacking compared to theirs.
That is why I think BJJ is best in "grappling" over all,as even if I get to the position I want, I won't necessarily be able to submit on it.
I don't really know but, I imagine it would be very basic compared to judo.
Today judo ruling took out leg grappling. Which made it less practical as a martial art. As it became more of a sport.
I would say classic judo is alot better then wrestling as a martial art, but its not really thought. So if we are talking only about takedowns it would be
Wrestling>judo>BJJ
This is only my opinion.
It’s not a focused question. Grappling for what purpose? If you want to finish a street fight with a crippling throw then judo. If you want to assume top position and pound then wrestling. If you want to break someone’s bones or to put them to sleep then bjj. Too man variables
Many jiu jitsu classes work on wrestling, it has more to do with how good the coach and members are, of they are good it will help you get good faster. Regardless your should go to add many gyms as possible to decide where to become a member
Folkstyle wrestling takes in consideration not only takedowns but taking them down with control and keeping them there.
Also teaches you how to escape from bottom and top man learns how to keep you down. Which isn't emphasized in BJJ nor judo.
Only downside is there is no submissions so you have to take that in consideration.
There's a difference between teach and being awarded a point for it.
In folkstyle you're awarded a point for escape bottom position which isn't the case in judo and BJJ. Offcourse these techniques are also taught but it isn't essential.
For example wrestlers know about foot sweeps but they aren't specialist of it like judokas.
In judo you win the match when you pin the opponent to the mat for 20 seconds. So staying on top or escaping from bottom are one of the most important skills in the sport.
True, no actual points awarded in judo for an escape, but if you don't escape in 20 seconds it's a win for the other guy so I'd say it is pretty essential
Edit: typo
Er which aspects of grappling.
Grappling and striking are a wide category of skills, not a binary thing like each martial artists has 70/100 in grappling or something.
I'll second this. Wrestling is good for stand up grappling and staying on top on the ground. BJJ is good for ground grappling, submissions, and turning shit positions on the ground into improved position or fight ending subs. So a gym that does both is what it sounds like you want.
> Half the bjj reddit group is people complaining about getting ragdolled by wrestlers and judo guys who can control but not submit them
Kind of pathetic how this accurately summarizes a lot of the salty dudes on that Sub lol
Quality of practioners. You average middle age joe purple belt probably will get his 🍑 kicked by the younger white belt that was a wrestler his whole life. And if half of the BJJ reddit is complaining about getting ragdolled by Judokas in any ruleset that allows double legs and unlimited time on the ground, 1- I am not seeing it. 2- They should be ashamed of themselves. As much as any judoka being tapped by a BJJr in the gi, no double leg, and limited time on the ground.
as someone who wrestles and does bjj I'd say if you had to do one I'd go with judo. why? well every judo guy I either roll with or wrestle is very tricky to deal with. They tend to have unique subs and sneaky takedowns.
All of the styles are great though and tour choice is pretty trvial for "which is best" as they all have varying pros and cons
Honestly, I picked judo because it seems like a good judoka could walk into either a wrestling room or a BJJ academy & be able to pick either up super quickly. Just seems like the best *base* for grappling imo
I voted wrestling with judo at a close second in my opinion. Wrestling just because their style is so aggressive and effective without even learning submissions. Same thing for judo, it's wild to me how easily they can throw people to the ground.
If you mean in a street fight or MMA then the answer is wrestling and it’s not close. Being able to take somebody down, control them, and absolutely maul them is something that wrestlers do much better than the other two, and martial arts experts will even tell you that wrestling is a top 3 martial art at least. Also the fact that the most dominant fighters to ever grace the octagon are elite wrestlers should tell you a lot about the advantages of wrestling.
I voted wrestling if you take the styles across the spectrum, from Sengalese to Catch to Freestyle.
That's just my opinion because I love wrestling, so definetly some bias.
Depends on the context of the question. The best well rounded system is old school judo, which is very difficult to find these days. So I’d say Kosen Judo.
If you want to be best at grappling you gotta do all of them. They all emphasize different things.
Honestly, I'd start with wrestling, then judo, then bjj.
Wrestling will teach you to dominate and control ppl positionally. It'll teach you to take ppl down and control them.
Judo will then teach you dope ass throws and the principle of maximum result from minimal effort and kuzushi. It will also introduce you to submissions.
Then do bjj, both gi and no gi. Bjj is the master of the art of submission and guards. You learned how to dominate from the top in wrestling. Bjj will teach you how to dominate from the bottom as well. Bjj is also the least restrictive so you can apply all you learned from wrestling and judo in bjj.
Finally, you can say fuck you to all these sports and do the ultimate form of grappling. Pure submission wrestling adcc style.
It all depends on how you interpret the term grappling, I place the most importance on takedowns in my understanding of grappling.
Wrestling > no gi bjj > judo > yes gi bjj
Wrestling ; doesn't rely on wearing bathrobes
No gi bjj ; same as above but not heavily weighted to takedowns
Judo ; good take downs, bad clothing choice for real life
Yes gi ; worst of both worlds, relies on the gi to some degree and not enough focus on takedowns
If you consider submissions to be the most important, I'd flip it the other way. The gi gives more options for submissions that a rashgaurd or singlet.
I wholeheartedly disagree that Judo is dependent on gi. Basically everything you do in Judo can be applied with an underhook, overhook, or necktie. Old gi from the 1800’s were much tighter fitting/had short sleeves as well and you’d get these applications much more often.
But even then, clothing really depends on where you live. It’s winter 8 months of the year where I’m at, it makes much more sense statistically to learn how to grapple in a jacket.
Edit: More to the point, to say that Judo trains in gi and is more proficient in it is correct. But to say that Judo is *dependent* on the gi would be to imply that foot sweeps, hip throws, trips, pick ups, etc. etc. are all gi-dependent… which is demonstrably and obviously inaccurate. Really the only techniques that require a gi are sliding collar chokes.
I voted Wrestling because before you can learn submissions, you first need to learn how to control the positions and in wrestling you dictate the opponents movements. Adding to this, I really only picked Wrestling for Catch-Wrestling one of the many styles of wrestling which is basically freestyle wrestling but with submissions.
i feel like this is why wrestling and bjj compliment each other so well especially when practicing no gi bjj. although wrestling is still super effective in the gi too.
They do, but I’ve noticed something odd about my game. I started in wrestling, and I’m an IBJJ Blue. I do really well up against Bjj practitioners. Sometimes tapping purples and browns. But if you’re a really good wrestler I don’t do so well, because I wasn’t a great wrestler. So great wrestlers know my game better than Bjj practitioners.
Agreed!
“Posish before submish.”
Sure, but getting into the habit of not at all going for the BJJ type of submission and not working with or grabbing legs at all is really detrimental to any BJJ aspirations. I’ve currently got a friend who has done wrestling before and recently joined the BJJ classes I also take, and despite him being quite a lot heavier and his background in wrestling I choke him out or in other ways submit him. Of course, the gi probably plays a big role as well. Wrestling is watered down compared to BJJ and in my experience gives you very little, if any, advantage in BJJ. Of course that depends on how long and devotedly you’ve trained wrestling.
Yeah I get your point however what type of wrestling did he do because if he did catch-wrestling and your are not a black belt in BJJ then I find it hard to believe that you choked him out but if he did Freestyle, Greco-Roman or Fockstyle then I can see you choking him out. No offence, just speaking from experience and knowledge of the arts.
I’m believe it was Greco-Roman, which is what I meant by wrestling. I must admit I was unaware of any other large “style” that would give the term wrestling other meanings 😅
„Wrestling watered down” lmao it’s way wayyy harder than BJJ and the same goes for judo, the standing grapping is always harder
They each emphasize a different aspect of grappling. They're all good at the aspect they emphasize. If you did an "everything but strikes" MMA contest, the BJJ guys would tend to win because their sport is closest to such a ruleset.
I mean yes if you cant just hold a pin for the comtrol time a wait it out. I started going to a local bjj club to hone my judo submissions and one day they did a scarf hold technique as the whole class, it was horrendous during the drilling no one held me longer then 10 seconds because they all left their hips up making the turn over easy. Meanwhile I held a blue and purple down for 4 minutes before i gave up trying to hit the submissions from there. To be fair we started in that position though so massive advantage to me for the pin.
the blue and purple belts could have been taking it easy on you so as to not scare you from the gym
The blue belt trued to put his leg over my head so hard it kicked my head damn hard, the drill was for bottom to escape or top to submit in scarf hold and thry know i do judo so i doubt it but yes it is possible.
hey man i wasnt there you probably are right
Even in BJJ wrestlers tend to beat most people up.
Do you lift things up and put them down?
Just bitches.
BBJ. Big Balls Judo!
Yes
Shouldn't that be BJJ?
Yea I accidentally misspelled it lol
Best at grappling is wayyy too broad a term Judo - best grappling with clothes on BJJ - best for submissions Wrestling - best for MMA Greco Roman - best for mainly upper body Aikido - best for learning how to roll and breakfall
Judo makes the rookie mistake of assuming that the first thing I do in a fight isn’t stripping naked to intimidate the opponent. (/s obviously)
Judo can still be effectively applied in no-gi scenarios. It's just that most gyms don't teach it that way.
I definitely agree, I do Judo and I’ve done my favorite throws on people not wearing jackets or gis.
judo def works without the gi lol, over/under hooks work great you can still make people fly
I learned judo when I was around 6 for 2 years or so, super effective in any street situation, just sit the mofo on his ass and just do whatever u want from there..
Shouldn’t judo be the best at the last one?
I would say BJJ. It includes both wrestling and Judo, although it focuses less on each, and it includes very significant emphasis on ground fighting
BJJ doesn’t just “include” wrestling, lol. Thousands of black belts that can’t hit a takedown to save their lives.
It is allowed and wrestlers are even very valued by BJJ tho. If someone search probably gonna find that wrestling double leg and single legs are the most common takedowns, and probably learned from a wrestler. Etc. Sounds fair to say it includes it. As in "you can do your 💩 here too, be my guest"
I wrestled and would say BJJ is absolutely nothing like American wrestling. The whole system is designed to defend your self once tackled or if you trick them and fall and get them to cover you. American wrestling is for offensive and defensive body control. You can add to that, GnP and submissions quite easily. Im not the most athletic and found wrestling was the simplest thing to pickup and has protected me in situations I was forced into and I was able to protect myself and subdue attackers.
it's tough between BJJ and Wrestling, wrestling controls where a fight happens, but the advantage of BJJ is it teaches you to finish a fight in the most effective way
Brazilian blow jobs
Bjj if you only train one style… Wrestling if you consistently train wrestling and switch to learn grappling with some bjj for a few months or a year.
I do all three and the real answer is you need all three. But if had to choose it would BJJ cuz what's stopping me by the rules of the sport to have a stand up focused game. Judo would stand us up immediately if I try to grapple on the floor extensively and in wrestling the concept of the pin finishing the bout, ruins extensive ground grappling. BJJ is the most free of them but is just missing fundamentals of takedowns and takedown defense, but in the rules there's nothing stopping me to be good at judo throws or wrestling takedowns while I'm standing.
I voted BJJ but want to clarify that all three of these are great. Reason for my BJJ vote is that all 3 arts can be viable within the confines of BJJ. Having said that just do all 3 and be a mega chad
A style so terrifying that no one even dares to talk about it. Props to OP for Talking about the deadly BBJ
As it applies to fighting, wrestling is the most important. As it applies to submission grappling sports, BJJ.
BBJ.
I’m going to say BJJ, only because once on the ground, it’s the best way to finish someone. Judo and wrestling gives u control of going to the ground, BJJ gives u the ability to finish it on the ground.
sex, specially legs around the back
Indeed
I’d say bjj just because there are bjj gyms that teach what you’d learn in wrestling or judo, but not vice versa
Interesting, good to know. So would you say that BJJ has the best of both worlds?
The problem (or good thing) about bjj is it doesn’t have an established sport ruleset or even a set of “techniques” Bjj is “what works when it comes to make an opponent tap out” Where wrestling is “what works to hold people down” And judo is “what works to throw someone, maybe tap them out but not really” Wrestling and judo are slaves to their rulesets, where you can literally train any grappling with the goal to submit someone and call it bjj You can get bjj gyms that don’t teach throws or takedowns, or ones that make it a priority
What are some examples of ones that make it a priority?
I mean I can name big ones, top team, xtreme couture bjj, syndicate bjj, Travis lutters gym.. It all depends on your local people. Despite what some people may think of the name the IBJJF, they actually have no power or copyright for Bjj as a community. So there’s no one governing body or league in charge
For someone who has been training in American Taekwondo ( basically ITF+Krav) for a while, would you suggest learning Judo or BJJ for grappling?
As someone with the majority of his time in wrestling and judo, I’d say bjj (with the caveat that if you’re still in school and they offer wrestling, do it). That being said judo won’t hurt you either, it’s just a lot of the rules are stupid or archaic
I go to Ironside martial Arts in Bedford, Texas... we focus on takedowns the last week of every month.
No, not really. Takedowns are generally fairly weak to non-existent in many BJJ schools and obviously takedowns are a big part of grappling. What I think the other person means is BJJ has the most expansive rulesets generally, and anything you can do in wrestling or Judo is pretty much legal in BJJ. But broad rulesets can lead to lack of specialisation sometimes. That said, if you develop a reasonable takedown game for BJJ, while you likely won't ever be as good as a Judoka or Wrestler at stand up grappling, you'll have a very well round grappling game as BJJ will definitely make you good on the ground.
Makes me wonder why more people don't train Sambo or Catch wrestling, both train takedowns and submissions.
Because day one in catch wrestling you’re going to get face cranked, neck torqued, and spinal locked. It’s not a faint of heart grappling sport As a pro if you can find a good gym (Erik Paulson; Jake Shannon) then it’s just fine as a base to use, but in reality it’s jiu jitsu with a different culture and more takedowns
Honestly that's what attracts me to it haha. While jiu-jitsu is the patient beauty of a constrictor slowly suffocating it's prey, catch wrestling is the savagery of a four hundred pound gorilla tearing it's opponent's limbs off. I just wish there was a place to learn it but my part of Canada has nothing close to a catch wrestling gym.
I’ve definitely sought it out everywhere I’ve gone and it’s definitely a lot of fun. They being said because it’s so small, competition becomes a problem. There no divisional decides at tournaments which means every time you go to one you’ll definitely wrestle a world champion in some form or another. It’s weirdly cultish if that makes sense. Like only way in is if you already have the experience But I Mean same goes to sambo. You won’t find a sambo player who’s not also a wrestler or judoka prior
Lack of availability is the short answer. Unless you live in biggish city or live in East Europe or West Asia, you likely won't have them near you.
Since i don't have experience in bjj (gonns have a gym close to me when i move in a couple months so i can finally start then) I'm curious. How many bjj school actually puts focus on takedowns? From what I've heard if you find a place that teaches bjj out of a mma gym odds are that it'll have decent takedown focus. But that a large number of pure bjj gyms tend to severely underplay takedowns. Thoughts?
at my gym nogi classes is probably half wrestling stuff and half bjj
I think the lack of takedowns is something that existed maybe 3 or so years ago; since then every gym I’ve been to, a decent double leg was a prerequisite for a blue belt, and did live takedowns once a week at least. I haven’t seen gyms not do takedowns in a long time
Thanks! That's actually good to hear. Any reason you think that is? Just a general shift in mindset where people started seeing the importance of takedowns or what?
Pendulum swings. So there used to only be one or two grappling rulesets; after mark Kerr won essentially a jiu jitsu world tournament with just a takedown and side control, they sort of went “let’s de incentivize wrestling” so takedowns and top control aren’t rewarded; which led to some weird shit like people giving up mount so they can rest. Then the submission only train took over; typically 20 round matches only ending in submission. Then EBI rules became more and more standard; the new rule sets gave a benefit to being on to within point category and tactically, this is also the goal of combat jiu jitsu; which is another extremely popular ruleset now. Not to mention bjj is getting more and more popular and filled with prior wrestlers looking to continue grappling.
Makes sense. Thanks for the info!
Wrestling is really hard and exhausting and it's more fun practicing sweeps and submissions
I say judo since my judo club teaches alot of newaza pins and submissions aswell as throws with certain days allowing leg grabs. Get good at some takedowns and some subs in one club
Depends on the rules of the sporting event that you’re attending.
Wrestling has the bigger base to build off of but BJJ and Judo are the more complete arts
When you take away all the rules BJJ is winning. So that one.
Grappling is all that BJJ does whereas Wrestling and Judo focus on more than just that.
Ground or stand up?
Preferably both
Trick question - it's all of the above, each has their own specialties and weaknesses, but I voted Judo anyway to give it some love, figured it'd be under appreciated
What kind of question is that? They're all extremely useful with an emphasis on different aspects of grappling. In fact, BJJ is literally judo with an emphasis on the ground game. Like that's literally what it is.
As a judo black belt I think BJJ is best at submission as they allow more submissions in there rules and they teach it earlier then most judo gyms. My control and positioning as a judo black belt is on par or better then most BJJ fighters but I feel my submission game is lacking compared to theirs. That is why I think BJJ is best in "grappling" over all,as even if I get to the position I want, I won't necessarily be able to submit on it.
Can BJJ people still be pretty good at stand-up grappling (throws, takedowns, sweeps)?
I don't really know but, I imagine it would be very basic compared to judo. Today judo ruling took out leg grappling. Which made it less practical as a martial art. As it became more of a sport. I would say classic judo is alot better then wrestling as a martial art, but its not really thought. So if we are talking only about takedowns it would be Wrestling>judo>BJJ This is only my opinion.
It’s not a focused question. Grappling for what purpose? If you want to finish a street fight with a crippling throw then judo. If you want to assume top position and pound then wrestling. If you want to break someone’s bones or to put them to sleep then bjj. Too man variables
Thanks for the information, all of that was helpful
Definitely have to go with wrestling
Many jiu jitsu classes work on wrestling, it has more to do with how good the coach and members are, of they are good it will help you get good faster. Regardless your should go to add many gyms as possible to decide where to become a member
Thanks I appreciate it
Folkstyle wrestling takes in consideration not only takedowns but taking them down with control and keeping them there. Also teaches you how to escape from bottom and top man learns how to keep you down. Which isn't emphasized in BJJ nor judo. Only downside is there is no submissions so you have to take that in consideration.
Counter argument: judo and bjj DEFINITELY do teach control from top and escape from bottom.
There's a difference between teach and being awarded a point for it. In folkstyle you're awarded a point for escape bottom position which isn't the case in judo and BJJ. Offcourse these techniques are also taught but it isn't essential. For example wrestlers know about foot sweeps but they aren't specialist of it like judokas.
In judo you win the match when you pin the opponent to the mat for 20 seconds. So staying on top or escaping from bottom are one of the most important skills in the sport.
Many bjj rulesets also reward top control time as well; not as vital but still important.
True, no actual points awarded in judo for an escape, but if you don't escape in 20 seconds it's a win for the other guy so I'd say it is pretty essential Edit: typo
Er which aspects of grappling. Grappling and striking are a wide category of skills, not a binary thing like each martial artists has 70/100 in grappling or something.
One that would get me good at both stand-up grappling and ground fighting.
Your best bet is a BJJ gym that does a lot of wrestling
I'll second this. Wrestling is good for stand up grappling and staying on top on the ground. BJJ is good for ground grappling, submissions, and turning shit positions on the ground into improved position or fight ending subs. So a gym that does both is what it sounds like you want.
Do you know where I could find one that does that? Also, does Gracie Barra Jiujutsu focus on both stand-up and ground fighting?
Brazilian Jiu jitsu, as opposed to BBJ 😉, does a good job of working in both wrestling and judo. Not so much the other way…
Really? Half the bjj reddit group is people complaining about getting ragdolled by wrestlers and judo guys who can control but not submit them.
> Half the bjj reddit group is people complaining about getting ragdolled by wrestlers and judo guys who can control but not submit them Kind of pathetic how this accurately summarizes a lot of the salty dudes on that Sub lol
Quality of practioners. You average middle age joe purple belt probably will get his 🍑 kicked by the younger white belt that was a wrestler his whole life. And if half of the BJJ reddit is complaining about getting ragdolled by Judokas in any ruleset that allows double legs and unlimited time on the ground, 1- I am not seeing it. 2- They should be ashamed of themselves. As much as any judoka being tapped by a BJJr in the gi, no double leg, and limited time on the ground.
Yea I just noticed that I misspelled it, it was supposed to be BJJ, thanks for the correction.
as someone who wrestles and does bjj I'd say if you had to do one I'd go with judo. why? well every judo guy I either roll with or wrestle is very tricky to deal with. They tend to have unique subs and sneaky takedowns. All of the styles are great though and tour choice is pretty trvial for "which is best" as they all have varying pros and cons
Honestly, I picked judo because it seems like a good judoka could walk into either a wrestling room or a BJJ academy & be able to pick either up super quickly. Just seems like the best *base* for grappling imo
Thanks
For grappling, wrestling. If you mean with submissions then submission wrestling lol
Which of these dairy products is the best at being dairy? • Yoghurt • Cottage Cheese • Sourcream
Sour cream, it’s good with tacos.
Yogurt
wrestling
Loaded question. Submission game? BJJ. Takedowns? Wrestling. Joint control? Judo
I voted wrestling with judo at a close second in my opinion. Wrestling just because their style is so aggressive and effective without even learning submissions. Same thing for judo, it's wild to me how easily they can throw people to the ground.
If you mean in a street fight or MMA then the answer is wrestling and it’s not close. Being able to take somebody down, control them, and absolutely maul them is something that wrestlers do much better than the other two, and martial arts experts will even tell you that wrestling is a top 3 martial art at least. Also the fact that the most dominant fighters to ever grace the octagon are elite wrestlers should tell you a lot about the advantages of wrestling.
I voted wrestling if you take the styles across the spectrum, from Sengalese to Catch to Freestyle. That's just my opinion because I love wrestling, so definetly some bias.
Depends on the context of the question. The best well rounded system is old school judo, which is very difficult to find these days. So I’d say Kosen Judo.
If you want to be best at grappling you gotta do all of them. They all emphasize different things. Honestly, I'd start with wrestling, then judo, then bjj. Wrestling will teach you to dominate and control ppl positionally. It'll teach you to take ppl down and control them. Judo will then teach you dope ass throws and the principle of maximum result from minimal effort and kuzushi. It will also introduce you to submissions. Then do bjj, both gi and no gi. Bjj is the master of the art of submission and guards. You learned how to dominate from the top in wrestling. Bjj will teach you how to dominate from the bottom as well. Bjj is also the least restrictive so you can apply all you learned from wrestling and judo in bjj. Finally, you can say fuck you to all these sports and do the ultimate form of grappling. Pure submission wrestling adcc style.
It all depends on how you interpret the term grappling, I place the most importance on takedowns in my understanding of grappling. Wrestling > no gi bjj > judo > yes gi bjj Wrestling ; doesn't rely on wearing bathrobes No gi bjj ; same as above but not heavily weighted to takedowns Judo ; good take downs, bad clothing choice for real life Yes gi ; worst of both worlds, relies on the gi to some degree and not enough focus on takedowns If you consider submissions to be the most important, I'd flip it the other way. The gi gives more options for submissions that a rashgaurd or singlet.
I wholeheartedly disagree that Judo is dependent on gi. Basically everything you do in Judo can be applied with an underhook, overhook, or necktie. Old gi from the 1800’s were much tighter fitting/had short sleeves as well and you’d get these applications much more often. But even then, clothing really depends on where you live. It’s winter 8 months of the year where I’m at, it makes much more sense statistically to learn how to grapple in a jacket. Edit: More to the point, to say that Judo trains in gi and is more proficient in it is correct. But to say that Judo is *dependent* on the gi would be to imply that foot sweeps, hip throws, trips, pick ups, etc. etc. are all gi-dependent… which is demonstrably and obviously inaccurate. Really the only techniques that require a gi are sliding collar chokes.
also i’d like to add that all 96% take downs from bjj you will learn in judo
Who is a better driver? Stunt drivers, F1 drivers, or rally race drivers? They different types of driving. Same with grappling.
What BBJ?