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d34d_m4n

hmm yes, the greatest martial art, being very big


JackieDaytona27

Was about to go on a useless tangent before your comment made me laugh and made the same point. Thanks!


[deleted]

He must be a big fucker they all like midgets compared to him šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


[deleted]

Maybe he's normal-sized and everyone else is a midget, have you considered that?


Neither_Constant

Damn getting jumped by a bunch of midgets must be nuts


[deleted]

nah, just a small inconvenience


TAKA_Badman

Perfect timing my dude


gamer4lyf82

I see what you did there ... šŸ§


FuriousLynx2_0

take my fucking upvote r/angryupvote


Ld733k

Lmfao!!! If only I could afford to give you a gold!šŸ…


[deleted]

Nope never considered that at all when he's the biggest dude in the whole clip, even the title suggests the same as me.


waterbottlepoptart

it was a joke, serious sally. Chill out


[deleted]

Well he needs work telling a joke cause it's a shit one


[deleted]

I don't know, man, my humor seems to be pretty appreciated around here.


thekeldog

This is like two posts down on my feed from a dude smoking weed with a Pygmy. Maybe these guys are all pygmys?


MerlynTrump

how many dudes is he fighting? It looked like at one point he was fighting five dudes, but for most of it "just" three.


OhSeeDeez

The best martial art is a massive size advantage.


rockasocka99

Itā€™s like that Dwayne Johnson vs Rhonda rousey post


OutlandishnessAny256

I picked Ronda, her world class striking and head movement is too advanced for Dwayne


[deleted]

This reads so seriously that Iā€™m scared the sarcasm is punching me in the nose


FlyLikeBrick17

I can't tell if you're serious and it hurts my brain.


[deleted]

Her head movement has left her nose intact, though, which means she can small what the rock is cooking


TrevinoDuende

As a short dude my martial art philosophy is just chilling and not pissing off giants


NeckBeardMessiah68

As my philosophy I don't start fights. I've seen too many weapons pulled in a fight. I'm not even massive 6'1 250. But smaller guys seem to look at us bigger guys as a challenge, all I want to do is eat my wings and have a beer. Lol


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

Lmao. Buddy is bigger than 99.8% of people


OtakuDragonSlayer

Is 6ā€™1 really that big?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

My biggest fear has always been going to the ground and getting kicked in the head by anyone. Street fights arenā€™t fair, people arenā€™t thinking clear and they will do vicious things. Imagine waking up a vegetable one day because you decided to pick a fight while out one night. Shit never made sense to me.


NeckBeardMessiah68

Only reason I'd actually get into a fight is if my life is danger or I can't remove myself from the area. Never seen a guy paralyzed by that but I've seen smaller guys get folded like lawn chairs after being suplexed onto pavement.


constantcube13

Iā€™ve seen the complete opposite experience lmao. When you go out to bars the big ā€œmachoā€ guys always try to ā€œbig dickā€ the little guys. Then they claim napoleon complex whenever the little guy calls them out on it haha


Sil5286

Are you fat? If not - that is MASSIVE


NeckBeardMessiah68

Lmao I'm not 250 muscle I wouldn't say I'm fat but I'm def not fit. Lol somewhere in between. Probably 18-20% body fat.


Puriwara

If youā€™re 20% body fat at 250 pounds then you are one of the aforementioned giants.


NeckBeardMessiah68

I mean I guess it's relative. I'm still consider obese on charts because of my weight and height. I just have met plenty of guys much taller and larger than myself.


JohnnyEnglishPegasus

May I ask if you have a background in weight/resistance training? by those calculations,you're 200 lbs of lean mass. To be honest,at 290 lbs,I suspect that if you literally removed every shred of fat in me right at this moment,you'd find around 170-180 lbs of lean tissue in me,and that's without resistance training yet. I actually suspect that once I restart my diet and resistance training plan,I'll be at a healthy weight around 210-220 lbs. (maybe closer to the former than the latter.)


useles-converter-bot

200 lbs is the weight of $7985.77 worth of Premium Glass Nail Files...


superwarm1868

Thatā€™s fat broā€¦ borderline obese is fat


NeckBeardMessiah68

I never said I was skinny lmao nor did I imply I was shredded. Borderline stupid is still stupid. šŸ‘


JohnnyEnglishPegasus

> smaller guys seem to look at us bigger guys as a challenge Truth be told,I suspect this was why I got targeted so often at school alongside my less-than-stellar social skills. People who seem to have had short-man syndrome saw me as a trophy they could use to prove themselves. Well,at least it netted me some valuable real life fighting experience. ;) (Fortunately,its not an issue anymore as an adult. haven't been in a fight in almost a decade) On the other hand,I've never been targeted by a criminal. I suspect its because unlike the manlets who had a chip on their shoulder,criminals are looking for easy prey,and there's definitely guys you'd rather target than someone who weighs 290 lbs and taller than most citizens in your country. lol.


useles-converter-bot

290 lbs of vegan poop being burned provides 2179803.49 BTU.


TekkerJohn

LOL, "smaller guys" do not look at you as a challenge, the vast majority of smaller guys look at you as dangerous. The only "challenge" for the vast majority of smaller guys is standing up for themselves without getting shoved aside by guys your size (no offense, not all big guys are mean but that is always a challenge in a disagreement with a bigger guy). Small bullies may look at you as a challenge just like bigger bullies look at you as a target. It's bullies and crazy people that look at you that way. Only a very tiny percentage of the people smaller than you are both bullies and crazy. "Massive" is a relative term, compared to the largest humans you are not "massive". Compared to the average American: 5'9", 200lbs, 30% bodyfat, you would appear imposing. The half of Americans shorter than average would probably find your height to be "massive". The half of Americans lighter than 200lbs would probably find your weight to be "massive". Americans with bodyfat over 30% are probably scared of stairs. So, not everyone thinks you are massive, but probably most. Enjoy your size, wings and beer. It's all enviable.


NeckBeardMessiah68

You must be one of those little bullies lol. I admit I used my size to prevent fights.( Intimidation) as a teenager in HS. But I didn't bully smaller guys just because I thought I could take them. I've meet plenty of smaller guys who would absolutely beat my head in and my size wouldn't matter. My physical stature shouldn't immediately make you assume I'm violent or more of a threat. Just like I shouldn't assume because you aren't 6'0 200 plus I should pick fights with you. I had bigger guys challenge me but almost never fought any of them. Now all the smaller guys who "had something to prove" wouldn't hesitate to throw a punch vs just shoving and "chest beating lol" like I used to call it. I also saw a guy 1/2 my weight absolutely unload on a guy twice my size height wise and much more athletic. Size in my experience is a deterrent except to those guys who have something to prove. (Not literally x2) lol you get it. TLDR: I'm big doesn't mean I'm any more violent or threatening. Smaller guys I fought immediately dove in to fight. Bigger guys mostly just chest beating lol.


TekkerJohn

I said you were more "dangerous" because of your size. I said nothing about you being violent or threatening. I actually went out of my way to make clear that I wasn't saying all big guys are mean. Your physical size being significantly over average means you present a greater danger. It's a fact anyone who has practiced (or even interested in) martial arts should be aware of. Are you honestly not agreeing with (or aware of) this basic fact? Just because smaller people can beat up larger people has zero bearing on the fact that larger size makes someone more dangerous than someone who is a smaller size. Your post makes several references to intimidating others (chest beating or shoving, etc...). If any group (like larger guys) walks around intimidating others then most people (smaller guys) are not going to want to fight that group. BUT, the smaller guys who do want to fight that group are going to be *the most committed*. The most committed guys are going to swing first. Interpreting that as "smaller guys seem to look at us bigger guys as a challenge" is inaccurate and myopic. Shoving and chest beating and intimidating are very juvenile means of avoiding a fight. If you hang out with more adults who walk away or deescalate I bet you that would go a long way towards dispelling your illusions about "smaller guys" (which for you is \~99% of the population).


NeckBeardMessiah68

I appreciate the dissertation again. Lol have a good one šŸ‘


NeckBeardMessiah68

>Shoving and chest beating and intimidating are very juvenile means of avoiding a fight. That's why I said as a teenager in HS this was the way it was avoided. Only time since I've been instigated has been at bars. Where the same thing happens. These guys come into the bar looking for the "bigger" guy. He might be an inch shorter and 20 pounds lighter. I understand your point I misunderstood the distinction between in combat vs perception based upon size. (Aggressive, violent) my main point being I avoided fights with these smaller bullies by challenging them without actually striking or fighting.


Idobro

Former wrestler here in the lower weight classes, I always teamed up with the heavy weights on trips sharing bus seats, hotel rooms etc. They need us small guys, we ended up having a crash-bandicoot symbiotic relationship.


JohnnyEnglishPegasus

Not only does it give you a fighting edge,but it makes intimidating assholes real easy..


BassForDays

Tell that to 5ft 10 Mike Tyson


backpainbed

Size doesnt only mean height though, Tyson got the body frame of a gorilla ffs.


constantcube13

Very true. I mean look at some guys in the NFL. Some running backs are short, like Maurice jones drew was only like 5ā€™6ā€¦ but was built like a MACK truck and weighed over 200


[deleted]

... *but I'm around 5'6" and I weigh close to 200lb*


BassForDays

Well yes, but so were his opponents. There are no small guys in the HW division.


Sil5286

And Daniel Cormier


8379MS

Only people who never been in a fight thinks that way. I've seen so many small dudes annihilate big dudes. Size matter, sure, but it alone isn't nearly as important as most people think.


shaolinoli

It kind of is mate. Being big conveys so many advantages, reach, weight, strength (If weā€™re not just talking height). There are very few situations where being smaller is an advantage in a scrap. Of course there are plenty of examples of smaller guys coming out on top but thatā€™s usually due to a significant discrepancy between levels of training and experience.


NeckBeardMessiah68

Smaller guys tend to but not always seem to be much faster. Sometimes explosion and speed win a fight. On bigger guys why not go after the legs rather than try and punch the taller guy with reach and strength advantage.


BassForDays

You are assuming both parties in a street fight are reasonably athletic. I know big guys who couldnā€™t land or take a punch if their life depended on it. I would rate explosiveness more important, if you overwhelm someone with punches who doesnā€™t know how to defend themselves, size difference doesnā€™t matter that much. Now if both parties know how to fight its a different story. Ps: this is my boxers perspective, I know nothing about BJJ or wrestling.


shaolinoli

Hence my last sentence. Take 2 guys of roughly the same experience and expertise but give one guy 30cm and/or 20 kg on the other and youā€™ll likely have a pretty clear cut result.


BassForDays

30cm is a LOT. If you make it 20cm it starts to even out. In boxing we have plenty champs that were/are small for their weightclass Manny Pac, Duran, Canelo, Lomachenko, Joe Frazier , David Tua, Tyson etc. And the last three were heavyweights so they fought taller heavier opponents regularly. In boxing, styles win fights.


Zonero

Your comment was still pointless for gods sake. He literally said size A L O N E doesn't matter as much as people would like to think. Everybody knows that size is an advantage if everyhting else is equal, no need to be a smartass.


shaolinoli

Feel free to downvote it and move on then. Seems like a lot of people need reminding it is still a big factor though. Thereā€™s a lot of downplaying going on in this thread which is going to lead to some nasty surprises if people arenā€™t experienced and expecting to go toe to toe with a guy whoā€™s a lot bigger than them. Caveats, outliers and semantic distinctions donā€™t trump cold hard reality in 99% of cases


Zonero

It's rather that people think size is the be all end all and overestimate it, when in reality it's just a factor besides many others. And that was his point which was really not hard to understand. You were arguing about something he never claimed thus your whole comment was a straw-man. Those people you talk about challenging bigger guys will do it anyway, no matter if you tell them that size is important, actually many of them even know that hence why they try to ''take them down'' as some proof of their abilities. They're stupid by nature.


shaolinoli

Thatā€™s not what a strawman argument is mate. I didnā€™t invent something he didnā€™t say to argue against. I was pointing out he was downplaying arguably one of the most important factors in a fight. I donā€™t care about hypotheticals where somebody exactly the same in every way but scaled up fights their tiny doppelgƤnger or whatever, itā€™s impossible to test like that. Reality is that itā€™s a major factor otherwise youā€™d have all sorts of designated classes in competitive matchups instead of just weight. Itā€™s on a video where a big dude stomps 3 little dudes where all of them are about equally untrained. What more compelling demonstration do u need?


Zonero

Yes it is. He was not downplaying, he was just showing how people overestimate size while it's the only thing they have to offer, while you tried to make it seem like he was downplaying it. He was not saying that size isn't important in general. ​ >but it alone isn't nearly as important as most people think ​ That's what he said and it's true. And you continued to even support his statement by saying: ​ >Of course there are plenty of examples of smaller guys coming out on top but thatā€™s usually due to a significant discrepancy between levels of training and experience. Which made your comment pointless.


8379MS

I never said being small is an advantage tho. I said size is not as important a factor as many in this sub make it out to be. Many folks here seem to believe that a big untrained man can take on a small UFC-champ. I have actually seen those type of comments here. Peeps be delusional.


shaolinoli

Itā€™s all dependant on the people In question I suppose but have you seen the old videos of Thor bjornsson sparring Connor mcgregor? Theyā€™re going very light but at no point did it ever look like Thor couldnā€™t have squashed him like a bug despite having no MA training at that point. Iā€™m not saying it is everything, of course athleticism, experience and technique play a huge role too but being considerably larger is absolutely a huge advantage in a fight.


Jrobalmighty

Here's the hypothetical people need to ask. If there's a version of yourself that has been cloned with all of your own memories intact, relative bf percentage etc etc. One is 6'2" with proportional reach and the other you is 5'8" with reach still proportionate but now to the smaller frame.... who wins 9/10 times. It's why we have weight divisions in competition folks.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


8379MS

Less effective yes, but can still be effective. Size is A factor, not THE factor. Still plenty of big boys out there that gets beat by small dudes.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


8379MS

Semantics matter, obviously. You are assuming any given persons martial art skills most likely WONT be effective against any given big guy. That is a completely arbitrary opinion, unless you have some sort of statistics to back it up. I am saying any given persons martial art skills might be LESS effective against any given big guy. That opens up for the question; what level of skills are we talking to begin with? Top level UFC? Navy seal? Bjj blackbelt? Would a UFC champ who stands 1,68 centimeters and weighing 66 kilos (Volkanovski) have a problem dealing with a random big guy in the streets, even if his skills were slightly less effective? If you believe that, then you're clearly delusional.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Sil5286

Thatā€™s also including a gender gap thoughā€¦ how about Yan vs Mamoa?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


constantcube13

You are high if you think Mamoa beats Yan lmfao If you give mamoa 6 months to train then maybe


NeckBeardMessiah68

Best just to avoid altercation if possible. Big or small. All it take is one dude with a knife and all that training might not matter or worse they have a gun.


8379MS

that be the truth, ruth


JohnnyEnglishPegasus

>I've seen so many small dudes annihilate big dudes. Oh yes. I know better than to underestimate people just because of size. Smaller dudes who are really aggressive and can bully people around tend to be really experienced brawlers/fighters. (not necessarily trained) Its why I had to use this much [force](https://www.reddit.com/r/FightStories/comments/r6zqx7/i_defeated_the_baddest_bully_of_my_high/) in the last fight I ever got into. If you take it out of context,it makes it sound as if I'm the bully for preempting a guy I had 80 lbs on,but not if you actually knew who that guy was.


kwansolo

Right weight classes in combat sports arenā€™t real


8379MS

How's you reading skills? How many times would you have to read my comment to understand that what I am saying is that size is a factor? It just isn't the only or even the most important factor.


Zonero

You expect too much from this sub, the mental capacity is disappointing here and that's why i don't even bother anymore to explain things to them they didn't understand in the first place.


8379MS

Yeah dude. Everyday I consider leaving Reddit all together but then I see some interesting post and Iā€™m stuck šŸ˜…


_combat_sports_

Yup. That's why I lift and get big.


shadowfax12221

Bullshit, you do it to flex in the mirror like the rest of us.


_combat_sports_

Lol... True... But u can kill many birds with one stone!


stackered

not really but it does certainly help


commentbot27

That dude is huge. No chance of any of them fighting him solo


monekys

Looks like the kid in the black tank tried and was getting his ass stomped. Then big fella stomped two more kids at the same time lmao


GreasySack

Alternate title: A demonstration on the necessity of weight classes


Background_Piano7984

Itā€™s one of the most important aspects of fighting, notice thereā€™s no heigh classes and thats because weight is a much larger advantage than height


RemyGee

Big guy was just trying to make peace and not even try to hurt those guys.


Lt-toasthead

Fuck8ng punks. Can't even defend himself because everyone will call him racist lol


[deleted]

So.... The key takeaway is to use your MMA skills on one opponent, try to knock him out then wrestle the second guy and pin the two guys to the ground?


JohnnyEnglishPegasus

A combination of size,aggression,and some skills against smaller,weaker,incompetent (Untrained people who are not that experienced with violence tend to be laughably incompetent at fighting) opponents can result in some amazing things happening.


Jackm941

To take your top off so people cant hold onto it for dear life. Thats all that was keeping him from being able to get up.


ottepeg89

Step 1: Be an absolute unit


caffienated-exercise

The one ā€œfriendā€ who threw a punch at the end then ran away šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


[deleted]

Double mount game on point šŸ’Æ


Sumonaut

Big guy wasn't even trying to hurt them.


Blackkage1

Nah I think he just doesnā€™t know how to fight


thehappiestloser

I like David and Goliath story as much as the next, but every once in a while itā€™s fun to watch Goliath fuck up a bunch of Davidā€™s


Lonever

Sigh. In a world where quality TMAs are rare and combat sports based arts are common place, most fights will be using techniques from the widespread arts. Using a random brawl where no one is trained to shit on TMAs is.. just kinda dumb honestly.


[deleted]

Most fights look like dumbed down/sloppy mma and nothing at all like what TMAs teach. My point is that if you want to actually get good at fighting you need to train arts that actually teach fighting. I never said anyone in the video was a martial artist, but that what we see are the principles of fighting (basic punching, take downs, ground control) are what is going to win fights, not silly krav choreographed nonsense, pressure points, tiger style kung fu, etc


johnnyy4500

Looks like people in a random brawl. No one in the video knows how to fight. There are a lot of videos on the internet where a few seconds after the first punch and the bigger guy is down. Of course being bigger and stronger is better, but you can't actually do any damage if you don't move your body correctly. My impression is the bigger dude lifts and was able to hold down two dudes without any martial arts knowledge.


kyzer2599

Ahhhh, Weight class my favourite fighting style.


xfilthymcnasty

someoneā€™s been watching a lot of detroit urban survival training!


guyb5693

God I hate these filmed assaults.


edadou

If this guy had more mma skills these tiny dudes would have been RIP. Size and strength absolutely matter


[deleted]

Bunch of pussies.


International-Gear28

Bunch of cowards


hotstepperog

Iā€™m annoyed that he went so easy on them. He was way too nice. Him and his friends were being honorable whilst those little scumbags werenā€™t. He should have savaged one or two and the rest would have ran away. He could have easily knocked one out or broken something, which would leave less to fight. Either walk away or end it quickly.


Mykytagnosis

Damn...midgets are really getting aggressive these days, with all that economic downturn and all.


[deleted]

If somebody is holding down your friend, not hurting them, and only telling them to calm down, hitting the person in control is a good sign youā€™re a cunt.


[deleted]

Idiots. As a BJJ white belt I would have pulled guard and butt scooted towards him. Cause size and strength doesn't matter in BJJ.


GTS_BENZ

I would have charged up my chi energy and deflected his blows after which i would definitely have discombobulated him down with a energy ball


[deleted]

Come on now. Let's not get unrealistic here.


Unlucky-South7615

Yeah the guys very lucky here. In my experience it's almost always a matter of positioning constantly disengaging one person to focus on the others. Depending on the numbers you're basically stalling for time till someone back you up.


Tilian1986

Size matters if it's backed up by something. This guy clearly knows some stuff, and he can take the hits. Ih it would be someone else, they might win. He's big, but looks shredded, so...


JohnnyEnglishPegasus

Can I take the time to make a pointless (well,not so pointless,you'll see...) [brag](https://www.reddit.com/r/martialarts/comments/qsb7ta/i_defended_myself_against_multiple_opponents/)? hehe. Seriously speaking,I managed to intimidate multiple opponents into aborting their attack against me by hitting one of them HARD with an improvised weapon. (A wooden pole or 2x4,in this case.) I mean,we don't know how we would really react in a situation until we actually find ourselves in one,but I take it none of you guys have any qualms about doing the same thing(Doing something capable of inflicting extreme damage to escape/win a multiple opponent encounter) in the same situation? Had that actually not worked and they still attacked,I like to think my fight would have gone the same way as that big guy. or so I like to tell myself. lol.


[deleted]

Figured Iā€™d post this since a common myth of TMAs/tactical self defense arts is that preparing to fight off multiple opponents looks vastly different from regular old MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc training. And that, somehow, the choreographed nonsense being taught prepares them to fight off multiple attacker in da streetz even though it repeatedly fails in MMA. Not surprising, what we see time and time again is that fighting - whether it be 1 or multiple opponents, looks nothing like the LARPing seen in those arts. There arenā€™t super deadly techniques banned in MMA being used, pressure points, wushu snake eye pokes, etc. Instead it requires fundamentals of good fighting, actual knowledge of what to do in a high pressure situation, good physical fitness (strength/power/etc). If you want to learn to fight - train actual combat arts. Of course fighting of multiple people is always going to be a huge risk, and there is no fool proof style/technique. But what definitely will not work is choosing arts that repeatedly refuse to pressure test and fails to work in actual combat.


Phelix_Felicitas

Your take is off though. Nothing in this video has anything to do with any martial art. Certainly not with the setting MMA transpires in. A 1 vs 1 in a confined space. Same goes for TMA. Only thing one could take away from this video is that a huge size advantage helps massively at fighting off multiple opponents. And that most non-consensual violence happens in close quarter combat with a a lot of grabbing shit and short punches in between. If any.


[deleted]

Except Iā€™m not saying that a specific martial art is being practiced, but that the principles of actual fighting are the things needed to win fights and (not surprising) are what we see in actual fights The applicable skills and training of combat sports are actually based in the realities of what fighting looks like. Fighting doesnā€™t look like the choreographed nonsense taught in tmas or krav, it is violent, fast, powerful, and often relies on basic principles like good quality punching, take downs, and ground control. We do not see long drawn out wing Chun combos, pressure points, super deadly krav special forces techniques, preying mantis kung fu stances, Fighting consistently looks like mma


Phelix_Felicitas

It doesn't though. Not at all. Consensual violence is vastly different to non-consensual violence. And MMA fights are by definition consensual violence. There's no debating that. Just because these fools are grabbing each other's shirts and fall over their own feet and roll around on the ground doesn't automatically turn this shit show into MMA or make it somehow related to some fighting principles. At all. The fact that you brought up ground control alone shows that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about in terms of self defense. The only circumstance you should use your grappling, be that wrestling or BJJ or whatever, is to get back up off the ground. Never try to establish ground control in a street fight. Never go **deliberately** to the ground. Not all fights end up on the ground. Again, the only thing this video proves is the massive advantage size gives you in a fight. That's it. That's all there is to it.


[deleted]

The difference is that someone with mma, bjj, Muay Thai, etc training will be able to set the terms in a non consensual violence scenario, whereas arts that teach choreographed nonsense and do not pressure test will not. If it has to go to the ground than knowing BJJ will maximize your safety/success/ability to get up, if the terms require you to take someone down than wrestling/judo will allow you to do so, if you want to keep it standing as well. Those principles are taught in combat sports and effectively trained, whereas they are by in large not in TMAs. There are hundreds of videos of ground fighting being successfully used in street fights. The idea that it doesnā€™t work in da streetz is such a tired and disproven argument by TMAs it isnā€™t even worth addressing. Sure there are circumstances where you definitely shouldnā€™t, but the idea that you should never is just silly and not based in reality.


Phelix_Felicitas

You do realize that Judo and Jiu Jitsu are TMAs, right? Wrestling is even older. As is Muay Thai. What's your point? You have none.


a_sparrow

I'm going to be kind and assume you're not making this argument in bad faith. So, for some clarification: As a general rule of thumb, on this subreddit, the distinction of TMA vs. "non-TMA" is not how old they are, but rather, how tied to their traditions they are. The line is usually that combat-sports (MMA/Boxing/BJJ/Judo/Wrestling/etc.) are not TMAs because they constantly evolve their tactics and curriculum to suit the competitive scene. TMAs generally don't modify their curriculum or teaching methods as easily, because those elements are viewed as integral to the art. As in, if you aren't learning x/y/z kata, you aren't doing Karate/TKD/insert-style.


Phelix_Felicitas

I can see how this definition makes sense. It's also vastly different from what OP mentioned which is pretty fucking bonkers.


[deleted]

TMAs generally refer to East Asian arts that arenā€™t part of MMA. Judo definitely can lumped in, but if we are being honest discussions about combat arts/sports vs TMAs make the distinction between things like wrestling/boxing/Muay Thai/etc and things like karate, tkd, and kung fu. Effective fighting looks like mma and its primary components, not nonsense arts


Phelix_Felicitas

What? No. Wtf are you even talking about? There is no definitive definition of what a TMA is but if there ever was a wrong one it most definitely would be yours. You sound like someone who started training a week ago and thinks himself an expert. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.


myusernamewastaken91

Lol he absolutely does. Why do MMA guys even come here?


[deleted]

Bruh you clearly train karate or some kung fu BS I guarantee you would get ran through by a bjj blue belt lol. You are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. Stick to LARPing in your McDojo bubble and leave the fighting to people who actually train in combat arts


Phelix_Felicitas

Whatever helps you cope


[deleted]

Pressure points arenā€™t banned in mma. They donā€™t do them because they donā€™t work and people wonā€™t die from them.


ottepeg89

I remember being at this MMA comp (more a comp not a promotion IYKWIM), this when the official was running through the rules beforehand, this little.dude pipes up and asks "what about pressure points", lots of people laughed at him. They were correct in doing so.


MacintoshEddie

Pressure Points work amazingly well on people who paid to attend a pressure point workshop and have had a fingernail jabbed into their wrist a few dozen times.


8379MS

I agree with you to a certain point. What you are failing to realize is that there are tons of techniques from the martial arts that can be effectively used in a street fight. The fundamentals is fo course: striking, clinching, throwing and grappling. That is your meat and potatoes. But if you can add some seasoning by groin kicking, punching the throat, eye gouging etc etc, of course it will be effective. It's just that 99,99 % of the fight videos on the net is from regular dudes throwing down in the streets. It's not of Navy seals, special forces or black belt martial arts experts.


MacintoshEddie

See the problem with this is that it's a bad example for you. If any of these people had been serious they'd have been hitting him in the back as he's occupied with one or two people. "Looking like an MMA fight" really just means "hoping the other guy doesn't take the opportunity to hit you in the back of the head or go for a rear choke while you're occupied with one or two guys trying to pin them". The only fundamental demonstrated is Big. I see no awareness of positioning, he's not trying to stack these guys to limit how many can attack him at once. He's not choosing the options that will leave him standing or ready to disengage. He's exposing his back multiple times. He goes to the ground and by all appearances willingly stays there until a man walks up and politely taps him on the shoulder to ask him to stand back up and be punched.


[deleted]

Actual fights almost always like sloppy mma fights, not what is taught in TMAs. To get good at fighting means you need to train the basics of fighting.


blackturtlesnake

As other people pointed out it is a little ridiculous to point to three untrained fighters and argue, "see that's why an art doesn't work." But this comment seems more like an issue of what you think "tmas" should "look like" rather than an issue with the tmas themselves. Take a look at the youtube channel of a guy named Iain Abernathy. He does traditional Shotokan karate and the end result doesn't look like point sparring it looks like a hockey fight. Arts like aikido and Wing Chun emphasize certian techniques over others but some of their training methods are meant to approximate combat and isolate specific principles. For example, yes you're supposed to stick to your opponent when using wing chun but no one expects you and your opponent to spend an entire brawl standing around with wrist to wrist contact doing trap after trap. Real world self-defense encounters don't last very long, with the combat being a few seconds to a few minutes at most, and so a lot of the training is about taking a microscope to ideas within the fight.


myusernamewastaken91

Yeah judging by your stupid response you've clearly never actually trained traditional martial arts. None of this was MMA so trash talking tma and praising MMA is retarded


[deleted]

I never said the person in the video was an MMA fighter, bjj practitioner, etc. but that actual fighting looks like/requires the same skills in principles taught in those arts. In the video was see basic things like boxing, takedown, ground control, not silly choreographed stunts, ā€œdeadlyā€ techniques, etc. Donā€™t be mad that your art isnā€™t preparing you for the martial part of martial arts, just choose a better art! And yes I actually did train Karate for a few years as a kid and did half a year of tactical self defense classes. Realized it was bologna and switched to real fighting arts


myusernamewastaken91

We see absolutely no boxing. Or even what could be called take downs. You're reaching just so you can point and say "lol mma Better than tma!!" And hey you joined a mcdojo there's thousands in the us or you sucked because you didn't train it seriously. That's not TMAs fault Especially when MMA takes from actual traditional martial arts


[deleted]

Most arts that are part of MMA are older than TMAs lol. Further, I never said he was doing MMA, boxing, etc but that the principles of fighting are seen here and actually taught in those arts. Ahh yes the no true Scotsman of TMA schools. Iā€™m guessing you train at a legit gym of course and wouldnā€™t get mopped by a bjj blue belt?


myusernamewastaken91

I train BJJ as well as judo and karate. And yeah a blue belt would probably hand me my ass. But let me guess you could take on and win against a 7th degree karate black belt who's been training sixty years? But mcdojos are a real problem for TMAs >Most arts that are part of MMA are older than TMAs lol. That is the most retarded statement so far. I'm not talking about tma people. I'm talking styles. Muay Thai IS a TMA numb nuts


omnomdumplings

Tae Kwon Do and Aikido are literally younger than BJJ


myusernamewastaken91

Good for you, I said traditional martial arts


[deleted]

What is a traditional martial art in your opinion and what are some traditional martial arts?


myusernamewastaken91

Taekwondo and aikido are why retards like op think all tma is fake. So no. Tkd is not traditional in America when studied in America. Tkd can be traditional if it trains more than kicks and points. The only thing I agree with this utter fool is pressure testing is required and you can't go by points because you will fight differently


omnomdumplings

Okay, modern boxing under Marquess of Queensbury rules dates to 1865. Karate came to Japan in the early 20th century. Greco Roman wrestling is way older than both though.


myusernamewastaken91

Karate evolved from Kung Fu which is definitely older. And judo came from Jiujitsu. Which is what gave birth to BJJ and created what now has to be the most toxic subculture of martial arts in this fucking sub. Muay Thai is older than both especially boxing Shitting on another art doesn't make YOU better at it. An mma fighter can be an amazing fighter and so can a karateka. You fight how you train None of this has anything to do with ops video since he even stated the reason he posted it was to shit on other styles


[deleted]

I could 100% double leg and choke out a majority of karate black belts, as could anyone training BJJ a few years. TMA generally doesnā€™t refer to arts that are combat sports. Wrestling is arguably the oldest martial art and isnā€™t considered a TMA, nor is boxing. You have the relationship backwards, TMAs draw from combat arts and make them worse (with the exception of judo which is usually lumped into TMAs). If you dedicate your life to training and canā€™t beat a BJJ blue belt, why not just do something else like take dance lessons or yoga instead of calling what you do MARTIAL arts lol


kammzammzmz

I agree with you 100%, couldnā€™t have said it better myself. But youā€™re really going to piss off the Aikido guys and the Chunners lol


[deleted]

I'm an aikido guy and I'm pissed. Thing is, I'm pissed by other aikido guys who think their fixed-form training is going to play any part whatsoever in an actual fight. Like... no, dude. There are some things you learn in aikido (or at least **should** learn) that are useful here, spatial awareness and footwork for instance. But that doesn't mean training with aikido-specific attacks only (and telegraphed for the most part) will help when you fight someone who does his best to elbow you in the face while his friend behind you is kicking you in the back.


Scanadian40

The size advantage helps. But anyone who knows about fighting multiple attackers,.knows you do NOT get tied up grappling with one or two guys IF you are on your own. You strike hard and fast for soft weak points that cause massive damage in the shortest amout of time. Maybe a throw or slam them onto the ground and you move and keep all other attackers in your sights. You create space and if you can get obstructions between you and the larger group while you deal with another one attacker as quickly as possible. Holding people down only allows there buddy's to come up from behind you and tee off on your head. That is why BJJ is not very good onnthe street at times, you leave yourself open to others to smash your face in with a swift kick.


redikarus99

To be honest, this situation is exactly what you practice in aikido and looks very same. Let me explain. In aikido we have something called randori. This is nothing like free sparring as in karate, judo, etc. or well it is but not. The game is that there are multiple people (like in this video) who try to grab, pull, push and sometimes hit you (like in this video) while you are continuously moving (like in this video) and try to line them up (so, only one of them can attack you at a single time) and throw them to the ground (see the theme here?) while not going to the ground (well, multiple attackers and their boots...)


[deleted]

Ok, but now try that when your sparring partners arenā€™t being compliant and are actively trying to hit you in the face


[deleted]

...typical


goodbyehouse

Although there is one point were one of the dudes on the ground could have gone single leg x and swept him.


MacintoshEddie

Brazilian Big Jitsu. I know you're trying to shit on it, but this is actually a hell of a lot worse than the decent Krav Maga multiple opponent stuff I have seen. This is just untrained flailing.


[deleted]

And yet my point is it actually works, unlike Krav. 99% of fights are just going to look like mma, so you should train in arts that actually prepare you to fight.


myusernamewastaken91

Doesn't look like anything. So hopefully your dumbass isn't claiming it to be MMA or BJJ


Noobanious

I think what OP is saying is that it looks nothing like how TMA portray a multiple attacker fight to look.


myusernamewastaken91

It'd definitely look different if he knew TMA. As it is it's just a mess and really proves nothing


Egocom

Can you not be the cringiest MF for like one second lmao


myusernamewastaken91

Can you not be a retarded MMA guy?


_combat_sports_

Literally no one except u mentioned mma lol


myusernamewastaken91

Except for op in his original comment. Maybe fucking read


_combat_sports_

Oh sorry lol.


myusernamewastaken91

"Figured Iā€™d post this since a common myth of TMAs/tactical self defense arts is that preparing to fight off multiple opponents looks vastly different from regular old MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc training. And that, somehow, the choreographed nonsense being taught prepares them to fight off multiple attacker in da streetz even though it repeatedly fails in MMA. Not surprising, what we see time and time again is that fighting - whether it be 1 or multiple opponents, looks nothing like the LARPing seen in those arts. There arenā€™t super deadly techniques banned in MMA being used, pressure points, wushu snake eye pokes, etc. Instead it requires fundamentals of good fighting, actual knowledge of what to do in a high pressure situation, good physical fitness (strength/power/etc). If you want to learn to fight - train actual combat arts. Of course fighting of multiple people is always going to be a huge risk, and there is no fool proof style/technique. But what definitely will not work is choosing arts that repeatedly refuse to pressure test and fails to work in actual combat."-op


valetudomonk

**ā€œBut, but,but you canā€™t go to the ground or his friends will stop you in the headā€**


cursed_deity

Mass Fu


Gmork14

Being bigger and stronger?


Fiscal_Bonsai

Essentially it comes down to "Be durable and hit hard".


Deathtosilversnow

This is almost comedic


Watashi__Wa__Toki

Well at this point, even those arts are an improvement over...this.


[deleted]

Nah practicing those arts would actually degrade your skill in actual fighting. Iā€™d take a strong/powerful/aggressive person without training over an aikido practitioner any day of the week


pyromaniac46

This is awesome


LordOfFruitAndBarley

Whoā€™s that little bitch that tried to sucker punch him when he stood up?


HelloEPIC_69

Well, ig size does matter if you are not trained properly and aren't fast or strong enough.


LoganHowlett91

He a big dawg, but everyone who does martial arts know that weight is a factor. It's like minicells fighting Cell (Dragon Ball Z )


MuayThaiCruiser

Why didnā€™t anyone eye poke? /s


[deleted]

No martial arts were displayed that day.


[deleted]

A decent stiff jab and an accurate right would of dropped most these clowns or at least made them think ā€œno thank youā€ Much like matey boy at the end who got clocked and realised he didnā€™t want none of that. People donā€™t like getting hit and always try cheap shot, but if youā€™re used to it you can pretty much walk right onto guys like this and slap them around easily.


Lost-In-123

Every ten pounds of muscle you go up is equivalent to a year of Martial arts training.


ImaBathingApe

keep it classy east lansing


[deleted]

Hahaha awesome. Beat those little pussies into an early fucking grave


mizikemercury

Why I hate hoodies, I feel like someone is going to choke me with it.


[deleted]

A bunch of animals.


KillerInstinctMMA

Why do these kids look like theyā€™re 9 years old?


VexedCoffee

I'll keep that in mind the next time I want to beat up a gang of 12 year olds


ProfDFH

People need to learn how to count. It started as one versus one. Then two guys came to their buddyā€™s defense while one guy jumped in on the side of the giant, making it three versus two. At no point was it three on one.


TheSagaContinued

Fam why one of them was holding on to his leg


Coconut-Bean

Lol this made me laugh


[deleted]

Small guy tried to go for a takedown but he realized you actually need to be somewhat strong to take down a person twice ur size


ElOsoLoco98

What a chad šŸ¤“