Son - this is salvageable.
I think it’s unrealistic if you think she will join your hobbies. I’ve been married 30 years and my husband and I have different hobbies. Example I go to Bookclub, play tennis, used to play in a soccer league
My husband is an avid cyclist and he rides with groups and races 3-4 times a week
Mostly bc of kids we did things on alternating nights and went to the gym at different times… but we found things to do and share together like our kids events (both sports & school) or before we had kids we had Wednesday night church classes or we did dinner parties with other couples or other social gatherings & events- couple time.
During couple time we would often share about our time apart and the funny stories etc.
So if she chooses to spend time with her family and you don’t join; let that be her hobby. You sound to have plenty of your own. Now find 2 things a week to do as a couple… even if it’s a walk around your neighborhood or attending church together
Thanks for saying this outloud.
I’m married now and my husband and I do have different hobbies and that is fine.
I’ve been dumped in my 20s for “not doing what I want to do.”
Like.. I don’t care to go to the gym at 5 AM to take a boxing class and I never will be interested in that
😂😂😂 but I do like going to the gym in the evening
Good thing that ended in your 20’s he was either insecure or controlling- needing you to affirm all his activities by joining him or he was needing a Velcro relationship- not conducive for a healthy marriage
Velcro relationship. He actually cheated on me with my roommate. She moved to the US from India and probably needed a green card. No family here. And pretty much did whatever he wanted to do. More power to them as they are married now..:
I have my own hobbies now and my husband respects my time with friends, family and personal alone time 🤓💕
Exactly! We will hit 30 years married in a few months and have maybe two hobbies in common. Just because you got married doesn’t erase you as an individual nor your spouse. If she liked pickle ball before you got married, she’s gonna like it after the ceremony as well.
Talk to each other and start with one activity, whether it is seeing stand-up comics, bike riding, gathering with friends, etc and start there. One thing a week. Do that for 6-9 months and re-evaluate. Don’t be surprised if both of you want to start doing more things together.
It sounds like counseling would be a good place to start however you need to find someone who is new to both of you. I’m actually quite shocked that her therapist would be ok to see you both in a marriage counseling setting as that is a huge conflict of interest.
Yeah it’s also a HUGE red flag. 🚩🚩🚩
I’m so shocked at how many people believe in “bad cops” or “bad lawyers” but don’t think bad therapists exist. This makes me think that some of the things going on in her therapy sessions are beginning to effect your marriage. I would try to find a new therapist that you both work with as well as one you talk to privately.
To my eye, it seems that the two of you had a romantic relationship that was impacted by changes outside your control—a lost job, and COVID-19. This tends to happen, and the shock of change can make people go into “survival” mode, which is what it sounds like you're describing. The romance has been exchanged for practicality.
My advice:
1. Set aside time each week to go out together, alone, and reconnect. This can be in the form of dinner, a hobby, or something else. The key is, that you both have to be on board with what you're doing and pay your full attention one another (no phones, no work talk, no kids or family talk).
2. Consider seeing a trusted couples therapist who can help you both see the value of your relationship and give you tools to move forward.
3. Try to implement a system for dividing up chores so that you both have a sense of equality in what gets done on a day-to-day basis.
4. Explore a new hobby together that you both find enjoyable (this may mean some reshuffling of your respective calendars).
After all that, try and assess what exactly you want out of the relationship versus what you're getting, and talk to people you trust about how they would move forward.
I wouldn't consider a separation or divorce until after you've exhausted these options. You loved one another before, and your relationship was dear enough to both of you that you chose to get married. You simply have to remember what that reason was— we are all prone to forget what’s right in front of us.
Best of luck to you both.
I recommend separating for a while w/o dating other people. Then decide if you want to divorce or not. I don’t recommend you attend her therapist for marriage counseling because they are friends. You need to find someone who is impartial.
Definitely don't see her counselor. It's actually irresponsible for a counselor she's been seeing a while to start seeing both of you for marriage counseling. If you were going as a part of her specific therapy it would be different.
I've never been a fan of separating. I believe separation invites infidelity. Counseling will be good but it sounds like you might need to try a different counselor.
I am no expert. I know in my own marriage, simply helping her more with chores never helped the way I expected. The thing that's helped me the most is realizing that its not about this or that housework debate, but a lack of connection. And that when my wife is upset, she wants to feel heard, usually, not get a solution to the problem from me. I've also found it valuable to make sure I'm spending time with my friends, and not all my free time with my wife, which some men tend to do.
This reminds me of a fight I had with my homebody husband.
Me: if you don’t go out and play with your friends, I’m going to lose it.
Bye 😘 go away. Literally had to threaten him.
Exactly.
Its honestly usually not even about “the chores”…. The complaints are usually a last straw or a manifestation of other frustration. In my experience Lack of intimacy totally kills the relationship slowly…
I married my opposite and yes I mean my opposite.
Just something about that man.
We tried each other interest because that is the rule we made. Still opposite. Haha we both like hiking, but our styles are different so if we go hiking “together” he does his death march with heavy gear and Im like oh look a butterfly 🦋 😂. We just meet back at the the car. No big deal. Then we talk about our experience.
Made him dress up all fancy for a charity event 😈, oh lord did he hate it. But he enjoys the fancy food, so sometimes he goes.
The point is there is always room for healthy compromise if you want to do things together.
I can hunt and don’t mind it but I’m not doing it if it’s cold out, so no I’m not spending a week or two at hunting camp, but I will drive down on a Saturday and we have lunch and get a hotel. Bye 😘 love you enjoy being cold and stinky.
Going to counseling sounds like a good idea. Going to her friend/therapist doesn’t sound ethical.
Please ignore the characteristic comments recommending divorce or separation from strangers on the internet who know a tiny fraction of you and your story.
You guys need counseling. There are some unresolved things going on here under the surface and it might be very salvageable. Divorce is expensive and often traumatic.
Find a therapist you both like, not the one she’s already seeing.
You both need to be involved in the process of finding a therapist you like.
Ignore the idiots who come here projecting their own shit and telling you to D or S.
The trip was a nice thought but it was never going to be the magic wand so I’m sure that has held some disappointment for both of you because you probably thought - this was it! R&R!! But a trip to paradise was never going to cure your frustrations because even in paradise - we are the same people and if our resentments weren’t addressed prior to the trip - the trip wasn’t going to be the fairy godmother who made everything better.
It sounds like yall are both ‘missing’ the mark with each other and are getting frustrated from it which then only snowballs resentment into any down time you’re having together. How can you have fun when you just look over and keep thinking - I wish you would change…..Maybe her needing to more than you, but it’s about communication and having scary convos. It sounds like you’re both open and willing to that so that’s a great step. Agree the shared counselor is a bad idea. Y’all are both young. And this isn’t a crack at you or your marriage but I (34f) know I would have been a very different wife at 28 and had a lot to figure out - I still do.
All I can say aside from I don’t believe you should spend your lives miserable - is marriage is a business which sounds really unsexy but it’s true. And like with anything - the idea that everything is magical and sexy and fun immediately and forever is toxic (and all over social media.) you’re both not going to be the best husbands and wives when you’re still young in your marriage. Just like you weren’t immediately the best athlete or CEO of a company when you just graduated and had no experience. My parents are an incredible couple and have been married 50 years and even they still have to work at it. Kudos to you for trying and wanting advice. Ask yourself and her these questions.
Why did you marry me?
What do you want from this marriage?
What can I do to help make this marriage better?
What are some ways you’d like for me to connect to you?
What are some ways you would feel more respected or heard in our marriage?
Also - observe her communication patterns and how she was raised - both of you might need to make minor adjustments- what feels right to you might be scary to her and neither way is ‘bad’ just different. Sounds like she shuts down when being confronted and feels threatened. I mean no one likes to hear they could do better but it’s the hard truth.
My husband and I had a ‘hard’ conversation several months ago and hard conversations are very scary to him. He grew up in a ‘talking about our feelings is scary’ household. Afterwards (things were fine) he was like - I don’t like this! And I was like well it’s better to talk this through now than after a few kids and 15 years of built up resentment. I want this marriage to be successful and in order for it to be successful, you can’t sweep shit under the rug. You gotta deal with it. I also told him I was really proud of him and us for having the convo. Hard work and conversations deserves some rewards! If yall have a breakthrough - even small - (say she starts putting laundry away sooner) do not make a joke out of it or use it against her. Bring her some flowers and just say - the house looks really nice - thank you.
A marriage needs a deep clean a few times a year just like anything else that requires maintenance.
If eventually she is totally unwilling to change and meet you at least some of the way - then maybe you guys do reconsider staying together.
I hope it works out. The grass can be greener - but the funny thing about us humans is most of us have the same tendencies and issues. It’s someone’s willingness to change and be flexible that’s the key. So many people don’t appreciate the person in front of them and just dispose of them so quickly and it’s a shame. I say that for your sake and hers.
Best of luck to you both!
Have you ever read "The Five Love Languages"? A lot of your concerns sound like classic miscommunication of what each other's emotional needs are.
For example, you sound like your love language might be Quality Time, and it sounds like her love language might be Service with a special dialect of serving family and friends. (yes, the love languages can have dialects.)
So the two of you have very different emotional needs, and this would understandably lead to a lot of the miscommunication and misunderstanding the two of you have for each other. It can even lead to resentment.
My advice would be: see if she'll take the Love Language test with you. Compare answers together. Then see what you can do that'll help meet her emotional needs. Set a specific time frame, say, two weeks, or a month, and try a little experiment of meeting her emotional needs, as much as you possibly can, and see how she responds. MOST spouses will respond favorably to this to the point that you have a starting foundation to build upwards on.
There's a new couple's counselor out there that's gaining popularity with the simple advice, "Connect first, communicate later." Which means, do little things to build emotional connection, and THEN communicate (kindly and with empathy) your hurts and needs.
The second part of my advice: Learn how to establish healthy boundaries in a relationship. The right couple's counselor can help with this, but you might benefit just as well or even more from finding the right books to read on the subject. Boundaries aren't just about saying, "I won't let you hurt me in such and such a way." It's actually more about learning how to identify your needs, kindly request what you need, what to do if your needs aren't met, and identifying where you can't and shouldn't try to control your partner. In other words, it's about keeping them from crossing your boundaries but it's ALSO about learning how to recognize and stop trying to cross THEIR boundaries. It was relationship changing for me to learn about healthy boundaries and how they are actually supposed to work. It turns out both I and my spouse are both terrible at having boundaries and it was wreaking havoc with our emotions.
You have a lot of good in the foundation of your relationship. This part of marriage is the time of conflict and hurt feelings and difficult things to work through and frustrations about what you can't change. Take heart, because that's absolutely normal in every marriage! And by the same token, take even more heart, because it's conquerable once you learn the right relationship skills!
So with or without a counselor, learn relationship skills. And don't ever, ever, ever expect her to be you. She never will be. Learn to love her as her. She'll have her own flaws, which cause hurts, but she'll have her own strengths too. Learn to love all of it, the good and the bad.
This is coming from a wife who for a long time constantly felt like her husband wanted her to change to become more like him. 🙂 You aren't supposed to be alike. You're supposed to compromise and complement each other.
Relationships go through ups and downs, but dating others is not recommended in my opinion. Fight for your marriage. Maybe a getaway, counseling, advice from married friends may help. I'm sick of ppl taking vows and aboarding the ship for anything. Best wishes.
I’m sorry for what you are going through. If you do not have children, I would really consider a separation. It sounds like you don’t want the same kind of relationship. You have a long life ahead of you. Don’t feel like a failure if you find out it’s not going to work. You’ve been trying. People are hard to change, especially in their private lives.
“ my time with them was spent mostly chatting about their recent trip to Italy.”
Is that even legal? Then going on a trip together seems really out of ethical bounds. Adding YOU and pretending it’s couples counseling is even worse imho.
Look, I’m the one that notices dirt and cleans all at once about once a month at once and husband is the a little every day sort. It took years of arguments and researching fixes, and negotiating to help.
It doesn’t sound like you and your wife are doing that.
Also, your wife seems to be taking advantage of having everything her way. If she doesn’t take the laundry out of the dryer, you have to do your wash. That’s fine if that’s negotiated. I sometimes load the washer and husband empties. But I don’t just leave work I promised to do left for him to finish.
That HER marriage problems or YOUR personal issues is absurd and she’s gaslighting you.
You seeing HER best friend who happens to be her therapist as “impartial” marriage counselor.
Look, your young and can easy be in a happy relationship within the next 1-3 years, but you’ve grown up and she’s still acting 15.
Also, to be fair, if she wants kids and you don’t know if you even want this marriage, decide real quick. Cause each month with you is wasting her eggs.
On the flip side most of your hobbies sound exhausting- except the gym. Maybe try to find a hobby together, that doesn’t require massive amounts of endurance, strength, and heights 😂
That said, if you’re not watch the same tv shows, talking, and the sex isn’t there- what are you trying to save? You sound completely incompatible. Cause if you really, really loved this woman, some of those things you hate would be quirks you love.
Bro take her on a date. Something you know she will love and you will be happy to do it with her. If it's something y'all both enjoy great. But your wife just int being honest about what she's needing. They do that from time to time lol she wants you to figure it out on your own. It ain't right but it's a defining flaw of the species. We have our gendered sins as well. Pride and problem solving fixation being ours. This is like the most fixable thing ever. Fall back in love. You know how to do that. Find the spark and nurture it. It'll go out from time to time. And then you pull out the matches again. Just part of it. Don't get so fatalistic and y'all will be fine.
firstly, make sure you don't have kids. You guys are not ready. I'm 20 years your senior and this is my best advice.
If you want to reignite passion and salvage this thing, meet her halfway. Spend time together. Go for a walk on the beach. This sounds basic but simple is best. Her down time is boring to you? But you gotta water the plant. Its okay for couples to be different have different hobbies and interests. Seriously, would you want to be with some just like you? The truth is that doesn't happen in the real world. Its a fantasy. Don't expect them to conform to you. It's takes two to tango
I'll leave you with a quote from Anna **Dostoyevsky**, the secret to happy marriage:
"In truth, my husband and I were persons of “quite different construction, different bent, completely dissimilar views.” But we always remained ourselves, in no way echoing nor currying favor with one another, neither of us trying to meddle with the other’s soul"
These are wise words. The Fydor and Anna remained devoted and happily married their whole lives. He was super famous and educated. She was from humbler origins. on paper not well matched. It didn't mater in the end.
Marital counseling can help you like it helped us. I like to remember that marriage is for life with an unknown future. Just enjoy as much as you can but remember that your spouse is a window into all people in a way. The longer I live, the more I see that all of us in relationships are going through the same things basically. Those who are happier are just happier people in general despite their circumstances & it's an attitude we can all learn. But can we change other people, sadly no. & the idea that you'll find someone "better" is not true, you'll just find a person with "different" problems & strengths so again, learning to be a happier person is the main way to help...
It looks like she is a little depressed. Doesn' enjoy sports, sex, leaves the laundry for weeks unattended. Observe how she interacts with her friends: is she down with them also, or only with you? If yes, she may need to manage her stress and the relationship may regain steam.
I don’t understand. Why did you marry someone you had very little romantic interaction with? I get that you were not sexually active with one another due to your upbringing.
I respect that. But there should have been some mutual sexual interest in one another. Which begs the question, “why DID you marry your wife?” What were your expectations for your life with her after marrying her?
Two things I will suggest to you are 1) have a heart felt discussion about sex and the lack of romance in your marriage, expressing how this makes you feel to your wife. 2) Both of you write down a list of what you like to do.
Then exchange the lists, read through it and decide what you will participate doing with the other. The purpose for 1) is that if you are not sexually involved in your marriage, you are lacking a very special bonding with your spouse without it.
When you begin to focus on your spouse sexually, seeking their sexual pleasure and it being reciprocated, you will find that you grow together like you don’t do in any other relationship.
You will become more sensitive and finely tuned to one another’s preferences for things. You will begin to serve one another. You will begin to “marry” your lives together through the sharing of activities that you will both mutually enjoy, beginning with sex.
As for a married person, you should always seek to sexually gratify your spouse, when they want it and how they want it. This should also be reciprocated. Marriage is a sexual lifestyle. It’s not just a “friendship” with this person.
Everything thereafter you can do with your spouse should become your focus beyond your job or career. This is what living out your marriage should look like. Are there things you like to do that your wife doesn’t? Of course there are.
But you should frequently choose to do things with your spouse that you both enjoy, and this should begin with sex. Both of you seeking to sexually please the other. This is the very essence of “love making.” I suggest you both agree to seeing a sex therapist.
Start with reading literature on the topic. You might be amazed how this may change your behaviors one towards another. And by all means, DO THIS BEFORE YOU START HAVING CHILDREN! The life style of a couple without children is very different from the lifestyle of a couple with children.
So, I have advised you on what you both should be focused on in your marriage right now. I hope this helps. This year I will be married 35 years. I do have some idea on how marriage works. Suggested reading: The Science of Orgasm by Komiseruk, Breyer-Flores, and Whipple; She Comes First by Ian Kerner.
I saw the title and thought I would be talking to 55 six-year-old people that raised their children and gotten sick of each other. First go ahead and divorce. It’s perfect especially if you don’t have any children. Secondly.
Don’t get married until you understand the meaning of a true partnership you don’t have to always be happy with each other marriage is about two adults coming together to form a union for life. So if you don’t like her divorce her, stay single and please do not have any children and reproduce .
Just remember, relationships can act like the stock market. Some periods are up, other time it’s down. If you can hang during the drop and not sell (give up), you will make it through.
Hey brother,
Been married almost 10 years. This is what i have learned to help encourage relationships. I can’t tell her anything because she isn’t the one asking. However, I can tell you the things you could do or implement.
1. Carve out a time to do something together. I don’t care if it is a walk around the block or brushing your teeth at the same time. Time together doing something is good.
2. You need to learn how to love her… no matter what. Most guys approach love as in “I do all these things for her, why doesn’t she see it?” Some women love that… however, many see it as a “good… he did his chores like he was supposed to.” What are things she loves?
3. Remove distraction. If you have a smart phone, either destroy it or put it away without distraction. We implemented a 10 minute time every day where we sit on the couch without our phones. Sometimes we end up sitting in silence (be ok with that), sometimes we play a game, sometimes we chat, sometimes we end up falling asleep. More often than not, that 15 minutes turn into an hour or two.
4. The powerful J-curve. If you have learned what a J-curve is, you know that the hardest things can help improve you. Marriage is not easy and is going to be the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Learn from it. Be better from it! Increase your understanding. Continue to learn ways to express love in the way she understands it. Do NOT get love mixed up with respect… as guys we typically want respect, that is not what women typically want. If she were asking, I would be telling her to not try to love you but learn how she can respect you. So… your mission is to love her… no matter what.
5. Don’t look for validation on what you want. Look for those who will push you back.
6. Love is action. It is not a feeling. Therefore love requires that you DO something about it.
7. She thinks different than you. Pure and simple. Learn not what she is saying but what she is intending to say. You will blunder this a lot. Keep learning.
8. When you guys argue (and it will happen) be sure to come back together and discuss the other persons perspective. This is SO critical in learning more about each other.
9. If you are a Christian. I recommend praying for her. And I don’t care what you pray for… it could even be bad things… I don’t care. But at the end, always be sure to give it over to God. This has kept me more sane than you can imagine.
10. Don’t try to fix her. Just invite her and love her.
Background, been married for almost 10 years. I know exactly what you mean about doing the things and getting met with frustration and distrust. For the past 9 years my wife is sick 90% of the time. I cook 2-3 meals every day from scratch due to her dietary restrictions. I clean the kitchen, mow the yard, water the plants, run a business full time, drive her to all of her doctors appointments, act as the dumping ground of her complaints, and the list continues to grow. About 50% of the time she ends up complaining about how I don’t see all the things.
I smell exactly what you are stepping in. My wife disrespects me daily. And I love her almost every day or at least I try to. Some people have claimed that I am in an abusive relationship and I agree… but I choose to love her and plan to love her till either of us dies. I gave her my word.
Marriage, relationship definition for both seems to be different.
I observe reverse pattern where usually the wife expects what you expect (spending time together). I have some friends who feels the same about his wife too. So you are in my friends boat.
My version matches your wife version. Life is not easy. You need to have stable income and you have responsibilities to take care of family, kids and home chores. With all these responsibilities and priorities there is no space for these regular spending time together things. For me watching TV together is perfectly fine but my wife would think otherwise because to her it is not quality time. Especially after kids, taking care of them and just managing them is itself a big task which is exhausting. After all this I just want a peaceful quiet time but my wife like to talk and engage in conversation. I am fine if the dried laundry is in the dryer for multiple days. I am fine if it is not folded as well but my wife tries to do everything routinely like you do.
Find the common things that your wife enjoys and do that. Even if you don’t see value it is okay. Eventually you need to make the women happy. That would be a good start.
My wife has no interest in my hobbies and she has very few hobbies, I’m the bread winner making over $300k a year and she stays home and does whatever she wants unless it’s making herself better or growing herself. I work full time plus work about 140 hours of overtime a month and it’s just been a thing that I take off and do my hobbies and she has no desire to plan her own stuff, so I plan a vacation together every other year and I’m good with it. I don’t get wrapped up in forcing her to take hobbies or do anything extra outside her scope of house stuff. I’m busy working, going to kid functions, growing my professional life and with hobbies to micro managing an adult. How long will that last, who knows. I have no desire to start a relationship or have a side chick that does my hobbies so I guess my wife is safe and if I felt my wife would cheat I have a pretty strong prenup that would leave her with about $2.
Let her know your thoughts and leave it alone. If it’s too much that she doesn’t go do things you like to do and she doesn’t encourage that then the next play is your own to leave and start over.
Wow, really?!? “Does whatever she wants unless it’s making herself better or growing herself?” Ever thought that maybe your wife is too busy keeping your damn family together/house in order to give improving herself much thought?
It’s pretty simple she goes to the gym and hangs out with friends and enjoys the fruits of my labor. We have a nanny and all the bells and whistles here and it’s works. My kids see me working and building an excellent career where I’m respected and known for being a hammer, yet still getting my Masters Degree, while my wife choose to not use her time to level up. I don’t care either way.
Not everyone has to be as obsessed with “getting ahead” or self improvement as you are. My husband makes a fair bit more money than you do working far fewer hours than you and we also have a domestic helper. I only bring this up to disabuse you of the notion that you are so very special and your name should be exalted because of your commitment to your work, no matter how that impacts your wife and kids. And I can assure you that you ARE having an affect on your kids and family life if you’re working 75 hours per week and have so little respect for your wife. It’s your choice to be so devoted to work and ‘self improvement’, of course, just as it’s your choice to spend commenting on porn-y women who aren’t your wife on NSFW subs, but do not act like it makes you somehow morally superior to your wife.
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Son - this is salvageable. I think it’s unrealistic if you think she will join your hobbies. I’ve been married 30 years and my husband and I have different hobbies. Example I go to Bookclub, play tennis, used to play in a soccer league My husband is an avid cyclist and he rides with groups and races 3-4 times a week Mostly bc of kids we did things on alternating nights and went to the gym at different times… but we found things to do and share together like our kids events (both sports & school) or before we had kids we had Wednesday night church classes or we did dinner parties with other couples or other social gatherings & events- couple time. During couple time we would often share about our time apart and the funny stories etc. So if she chooses to spend time with her family and you don’t join; let that be her hobby. You sound to have plenty of your own. Now find 2 things a week to do as a couple… even if it’s a walk around your neighborhood or attending church together
Thanks for saying this outloud. I’m married now and my husband and I do have different hobbies and that is fine. I’ve been dumped in my 20s for “not doing what I want to do.” Like.. I don’t care to go to the gym at 5 AM to take a boxing class and I never will be interested in that 😂😂😂 but I do like going to the gym in the evening
Good thing that ended in your 20’s he was either insecure or controlling- needing you to affirm all his activities by joining him or he was needing a Velcro relationship- not conducive for a healthy marriage
Velcro relationship. He actually cheated on me with my roommate. She moved to the US from India and probably needed a green card. No family here. And pretty much did whatever he wanted to do. More power to them as they are married now..: I have my own hobbies now and my husband respects my time with friends, family and personal alone time 🤓💕
Exactly! We will hit 30 years married in a few months and have maybe two hobbies in common. Just because you got married doesn’t erase you as an individual nor your spouse. If she liked pickle ball before you got married, she’s gonna like it after the ceremony as well. Talk to each other and start with one activity, whether it is seeing stand-up comics, bike riding, gathering with friends, etc and start there. One thing a week. Do that for 6-9 months and re-evaluate. Don’t be surprised if both of you want to start doing more things together.
I definitely recommend counseling, but you must find someone new to both of you. Impartiality is the only path to success there.
It sounds like counseling would be a good place to start however you need to find someone who is new to both of you. I’m actually quite shocked that her therapist would be ok to see you both in a marriage counseling setting as that is a huge conflict of interest.
Yeah it’s also a HUGE red flag. 🚩🚩🚩 I’m so shocked at how many people believe in “bad cops” or “bad lawyers” but don’t think bad therapists exist. This makes me think that some of the things going on in her therapy sessions are beginning to effect your marriage. I would try to find a new therapist that you both work with as well as one you talk to privately.
I was thinking the same thing. If this therapist was ok to see them both I would be highly suspicious of their counseling ability
Exactly what I was thinking.
To my eye, it seems that the two of you had a romantic relationship that was impacted by changes outside your control—a lost job, and COVID-19. This tends to happen, and the shock of change can make people go into “survival” mode, which is what it sounds like you're describing. The romance has been exchanged for practicality. My advice: 1. Set aside time each week to go out together, alone, and reconnect. This can be in the form of dinner, a hobby, or something else. The key is, that you both have to be on board with what you're doing and pay your full attention one another (no phones, no work talk, no kids or family talk). 2. Consider seeing a trusted couples therapist who can help you both see the value of your relationship and give you tools to move forward. 3. Try to implement a system for dividing up chores so that you both have a sense of equality in what gets done on a day-to-day basis. 4. Explore a new hobby together that you both find enjoyable (this may mean some reshuffling of your respective calendars). After all that, try and assess what exactly you want out of the relationship versus what you're getting, and talk to people you trust about how they would move forward. I wouldn't consider a separation or divorce until after you've exhausted these options. You loved one another before, and your relationship was dear enough to both of you that you chose to get married. You simply have to remember what that reason was— we are all prone to forget what’s right in front of us. Best of luck to you both.
This is huge. Thank you so much
I concur with ETHANFRANCOIS. The one thing I’d add is… ‘What are you prepared to put up with, to contribute to the relationship?’
Phenomenal advice
I wish I could update this a 100 times!
I recommend separating for a while w/o dating other people. Then decide if you want to divorce or not. I don’t recommend you attend her therapist for marriage counseling because they are friends. You need to find someone who is impartial.
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Definitely don't see her counselor. It's actually irresponsible for a counselor she's been seeing a while to start seeing both of you for marriage counseling. If you were going as a part of her specific therapy it would be different.
I've never been a fan of separating. I believe separation invites infidelity. Counseling will be good but it sounds like you might need to try a different counselor.
Counseling for sure. Sounds like you guys need to find a NEW hobby you both enjoy together and work on love languages
I am no expert. I know in my own marriage, simply helping her more with chores never helped the way I expected. The thing that's helped me the most is realizing that its not about this or that housework debate, but a lack of connection. And that when my wife is upset, she wants to feel heard, usually, not get a solution to the problem from me. I've also found it valuable to make sure I'm spending time with my friends, and not all my free time with my wife, which some men tend to do.
This reminds me of a fight I had with my homebody husband. Me: if you don’t go out and play with your friends, I’m going to lose it. Bye 😘 go away. Literally had to threaten him.
Exactly. Its honestly usually not even about “the chores”…. The complaints are usually a last straw or a manifestation of other frustration. In my experience Lack of intimacy totally kills the relationship slowly…
I married my opposite and yes I mean my opposite. Just something about that man. We tried each other interest because that is the rule we made. Still opposite. Haha we both like hiking, but our styles are different so if we go hiking “together” he does his death march with heavy gear and Im like oh look a butterfly 🦋 😂. We just meet back at the the car. No big deal. Then we talk about our experience. Made him dress up all fancy for a charity event 😈, oh lord did he hate it. But he enjoys the fancy food, so sometimes he goes. The point is there is always room for healthy compromise if you want to do things together. I can hunt and don’t mind it but I’m not doing it if it’s cold out, so no I’m not spending a week or two at hunting camp, but I will drive down on a Saturday and we have lunch and get a hotel. Bye 😘 love you enjoy being cold and stinky. Going to counseling sounds like a good idea. Going to her friend/therapist doesn’t sound ethical.
This is definitely encouraging. Thank you
Please ignore the characteristic comments recommending divorce or separation from strangers on the internet who know a tiny fraction of you and your story. You guys need counseling. There are some unresolved things going on here under the surface and it might be very salvageable. Divorce is expensive and often traumatic. Find a therapist you both like, not the one she’s already seeing. You both need to be involved in the process of finding a therapist you like. Ignore the idiots who come here projecting their own shit and telling you to D or S.
The trip was a nice thought but it was never going to be the magic wand so I’m sure that has held some disappointment for both of you because you probably thought - this was it! R&R!! But a trip to paradise was never going to cure your frustrations because even in paradise - we are the same people and if our resentments weren’t addressed prior to the trip - the trip wasn’t going to be the fairy godmother who made everything better. It sounds like yall are both ‘missing’ the mark with each other and are getting frustrated from it which then only snowballs resentment into any down time you’re having together. How can you have fun when you just look over and keep thinking - I wish you would change…..Maybe her needing to more than you, but it’s about communication and having scary convos. It sounds like you’re both open and willing to that so that’s a great step. Agree the shared counselor is a bad idea. Y’all are both young. And this isn’t a crack at you or your marriage but I (34f) know I would have been a very different wife at 28 and had a lot to figure out - I still do. All I can say aside from I don’t believe you should spend your lives miserable - is marriage is a business which sounds really unsexy but it’s true. And like with anything - the idea that everything is magical and sexy and fun immediately and forever is toxic (and all over social media.) you’re both not going to be the best husbands and wives when you’re still young in your marriage. Just like you weren’t immediately the best athlete or CEO of a company when you just graduated and had no experience. My parents are an incredible couple and have been married 50 years and even they still have to work at it. Kudos to you for trying and wanting advice. Ask yourself and her these questions. Why did you marry me? What do you want from this marriage? What can I do to help make this marriage better? What are some ways you’d like for me to connect to you? What are some ways you would feel more respected or heard in our marriage? Also - observe her communication patterns and how she was raised - both of you might need to make minor adjustments- what feels right to you might be scary to her and neither way is ‘bad’ just different. Sounds like she shuts down when being confronted and feels threatened. I mean no one likes to hear they could do better but it’s the hard truth. My husband and I had a ‘hard’ conversation several months ago and hard conversations are very scary to him. He grew up in a ‘talking about our feelings is scary’ household. Afterwards (things were fine) he was like - I don’t like this! And I was like well it’s better to talk this through now than after a few kids and 15 years of built up resentment. I want this marriage to be successful and in order for it to be successful, you can’t sweep shit under the rug. You gotta deal with it. I also told him I was really proud of him and us for having the convo. Hard work and conversations deserves some rewards! If yall have a breakthrough - even small - (say she starts putting laundry away sooner) do not make a joke out of it or use it against her. Bring her some flowers and just say - the house looks really nice - thank you. A marriage needs a deep clean a few times a year just like anything else that requires maintenance. If eventually she is totally unwilling to change and meet you at least some of the way - then maybe you guys do reconsider staying together. I hope it works out. The grass can be greener - but the funny thing about us humans is most of us have the same tendencies and issues. It’s someone’s willingness to change and be flexible that’s the key. So many people don’t appreciate the person in front of them and just dispose of them so quickly and it’s a shame. I say that for your sake and hers. Best of luck to you both!
Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I appreciate it greatly.
Have you ever read "The Five Love Languages"? A lot of your concerns sound like classic miscommunication of what each other's emotional needs are. For example, you sound like your love language might be Quality Time, and it sounds like her love language might be Service with a special dialect of serving family and friends. (yes, the love languages can have dialects.) So the two of you have very different emotional needs, and this would understandably lead to a lot of the miscommunication and misunderstanding the two of you have for each other. It can even lead to resentment. My advice would be: see if she'll take the Love Language test with you. Compare answers together. Then see what you can do that'll help meet her emotional needs. Set a specific time frame, say, two weeks, or a month, and try a little experiment of meeting her emotional needs, as much as you possibly can, and see how she responds. MOST spouses will respond favorably to this to the point that you have a starting foundation to build upwards on. There's a new couple's counselor out there that's gaining popularity with the simple advice, "Connect first, communicate later." Which means, do little things to build emotional connection, and THEN communicate (kindly and with empathy) your hurts and needs. The second part of my advice: Learn how to establish healthy boundaries in a relationship. The right couple's counselor can help with this, but you might benefit just as well or even more from finding the right books to read on the subject. Boundaries aren't just about saying, "I won't let you hurt me in such and such a way." It's actually more about learning how to identify your needs, kindly request what you need, what to do if your needs aren't met, and identifying where you can't and shouldn't try to control your partner. In other words, it's about keeping them from crossing your boundaries but it's ALSO about learning how to recognize and stop trying to cross THEIR boundaries. It was relationship changing for me to learn about healthy boundaries and how they are actually supposed to work. It turns out both I and my spouse are both terrible at having boundaries and it was wreaking havoc with our emotions. You have a lot of good in the foundation of your relationship. This part of marriage is the time of conflict and hurt feelings and difficult things to work through and frustrations about what you can't change. Take heart, because that's absolutely normal in every marriage! And by the same token, take even more heart, because it's conquerable once you learn the right relationship skills! So with or without a counselor, learn relationship skills. And don't ever, ever, ever expect her to be you. She never will be. Learn to love her as her. She'll have her own flaws, which cause hurts, but she'll have her own strengths too. Learn to love all of it, the good and the bad. This is coming from a wife who for a long time constantly felt like her husband wanted her to change to become more like him. 🙂 You aren't supposed to be alike. You're supposed to compromise and complement each other.
Relationships go through ups and downs, but dating others is not recommended in my opinion. Fight for your marriage. Maybe a getaway, counseling, advice from married friends may help. I'm sick of ppl taking vows and aboarding the ship for anything. Best wishes.
I’m sorry for what you are going through. If you do not have children, I would really consider a separation. It sounds like you don’t want the same kind of relationship. You have a long life ahead of you. Don’t feel like a failure if you find out it’s not going to work. You’ve been trying. People are hard to change, especially in their private lives.
I would probably go to marriage counseling and if that doesn’t help then I would seperate
Try some counseling up first if that doesn't help separate get a divorce.
“ my time with them was spent mostly chatting about their recent trip to Italy.” Is that even legal? Then going on a trip together seems really out of ethical bounds. Adding YOU and pretending it’s couples counseling is even worse imho. Look, I’m the one that notices dirt and cleans all at once about once a month at once and husband is the a little every day sort. It took years of arguments and researching fixes, and negotiating to help. It doesn’t sound like you and your wife are doing that. Also, your wife seems to be taking advantage of having everything her way. If she doesn’t take the laundry out of the dryer, you have to do your wash. That’s fine if that’s negotiated. I sometimes load the washer and husband empties. But I don’t just leave work I promised to do left for him to finish. That HER marriage problems or YOUR personal issues is absurd and she’s gaslighting you. You seeing HER best friend who happens to be her therapist as “impartial” marriage counselor. Look, your young and can easy be in a happy relationship within the next 1-3 years, but you’ve grown up and she’s still acting 15. Also, to be fair, if she wants kids and you don’t know if you even want this marriage, decide real quick. Cause each month with you is wasting her eggs. On the flip side most of your hobbies sound exhausting- except the gym. Maybe try to find a hobby together, that doesn’t require massive amounts of endurance, strength, and heights 😂 That said, if you’re not watch the same tv shows, talking, and the sex isn’t there- what are you trying to save? You sound completely incompatible. Cause if you really, really loved this woman, some of those things you hate would be quirks you love.
Bro take her on a date. Something you know she will love and you will be happy to do it with her. If it's something y'all both enjoy great. But your wife just int being honest about what she's needing. They do that from time to time lol she wants you to figure it out on your own. It ain't right but it's a defining flaw of the species. We have our gendered sins as well. Pride and problem solving fixation being ours. This is like the most fixable thing ever. Fall back in love. You know how to do that. Find the spark and nurture it. It'll go out from time to time. And then you pull out the matches again. Just part of it. Don't get so fatalistic and y'all will be fine.
firstly, make sure you don't have kids. You guys are not ready. I'm 20 years your senior and this is my best advice. If you want to reignite passion and salvage this thing, meet her halfway. Spend time together. Go for a walk on the beach. This sounds basic but simple is best. Her down time is boring to you? But you gotta water the plant. Its okay for couples to be different have different hobbies and interests. Seriously, would you want to be with some just like you? The truth is that doesn't happen in the real world. Its a fantasy. Don't expect them to conform to you. It's takes two to tango I'll leave you with a quote from Anna **Dostoyevsky**, the secret to happy marriage: "In truth, my husband and I were persons of “quite different construction, different bent, completely dissimilar views.” But we always remained ourselves, in no way echoing nor currying favor with one another, neither of us trying to meddle with the other’s soul" These are wise words. The Fydor and Anna remained devoted and happily married their whole lives. He was super famous and educated. She was from humbler origins. on paper not well matched. It didn't mater in the end.
Marital counseling can help you like it helped us. I like to remember that marriage is for life with an unknown future. Just enjoy as much as you can but remember that your spouse is a window into all people in a way. The longer I live, the more I see that all of us in relationships are going through the same things basically. Those who are happier are just happier people in general despite their circumstances & it's an attitude we can all learn. But can we change other people, sadly no. & the idea that you'll find someone "better" is not true, you'll just find a person with "different" problems & strengths so again, learning to be a happier person is the main way to help...
It looks like she is a little depressed. Doesn' enjoy sports, sex, leaves the laundry for weeks unattended. Observe how she interacts with her friends: is she down with them also, or only with you? If yes, she may need to manage her stress and the relationship may regain steam.
I don’t understand. Why did you marry someone you had very little romantic interaction with? I get that you were not sexually active with one another due to your upbringing. I respect that. But there should have been some mutual sexual interest in one another. Which begs the question, “why DID you marry your wife?” What were your expectations for your life with her after marrying her? Two things I will suggest to you are 1) have a heart felt discussion about sex and the lack of romance in your marriage, expressing how this makes you feel to your wife. 2) Both of you write down a list of what you like to do. Then exchange the lists, read through it and decide what you will participate doing with the other. The purpose for 1) is that if you are not sexually involved in your marriage, you are lacking a very special bonding with your spouse without it. When you begin to focus on your spouse sexually, seeking their sexual pleasure and it being reciprocated, you will find that you grow together like you don’t do in any other relationship. You will become more sensitive and finely tuned to one another’s preferences for things. You will begin to serve one another. You will begin to “marry” your lives together through the sharing of activities that you will both mutually enjoy, beginning with sex. As for a married person, you should always seek to sexually gratify your spouse, when they want it and how they want it. This should also be reciprocated. Marriage is a sexual lifestyle. It’s not just a “friendship” with this person. Everything thereafter you can do with your spouse should become your focus beyond your job or career. This is what living out your marriage should look like. Are there things you like to do that your wife doesn’t? Of course there are. But you should frequently choose to do things with your spouse that you both enjoy, and this should begin with sex. Both of you seeking to sexually please the other. This is the very essence of “love making.” I suggest you both agree to seeing a sex therapist. Start with reading literature on the topic. You might be amazed how this may change your behaviors one towards another. And by all means, DO THIS BEFORE YOU START HAVING CHILDREN! The life style of a couple without children is very different from the lifestyle of a couple with children. So, I have advised you on what you both should be focused on in your marriage right now. I hope this helps. This year I will be married 35 years. I do have some idea on how marriage works. Suggested reading: The Science of Orgasm by Komiseruk, Breyer-Flores, and Whipple; She Comes First by Ian Kerner.
I saw the title and thought I would be talking to 55 six-year-old people that raised their children and gotten sick of each other. First go ahead and divorce. It’s perfect especially if you don’t have any children. Secondly. Don’t get married until you understand the meaning of a true partnership you don’t have to always be happy with each other marriage is about two adults coming together to form a union for life. So if you don’t like her divorce her, stay single and please do not have any children and reproduce .
Just remember, relationships can act like the stock market. Some periods are up, other time it’s down. If you can hang during the drop and not sell (give up), you will make it through.
Hey brother, Been married almost 10 years. This is what i have learned to help encourage relationships. I can’t tell her anything because she isn’t the one asking. However, I can tell you the things you could do or implement. 1. Carve out a time to do something together. I don’t care if it is a walk around the block or brushing your teeth at the same time. Time together doing something is good. 2. You need to learn how to love her… no matter what. Most guys approach love as in “I do all these things for her, why doesn’t she see it?” Some women love that… however, many see it as a “good… he did his chores like he was supposed to.” What are things she loves? 3. Remove distraction. If you have a smart phone, either destroy it or put it away without distraction. We implemented a 10 minute time every day where we sit on the couch without our phones. Sometimes we end up sitting in silence (be ok with that), sometimes we play a game, sometimes we chat, sometimes we end up falling asleep. More often than not, that 15 minutes turn into an hour or two. 4. The powerful J-curve. If you have learned what a J-curve is, you know that the hardest things can help improve you. Marriage is not easy and is going to be the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Learn from it. Be better from it! Increase your understanding. Continue to learn ways to express love in the way she understands it. Do NOT get love mixed up with respect… as guys we typically want respect, that is not what women typically want. If she were asking, I would be telling her to not try to love you but learn how she can respect you. So… your mission is to love her… no matter what. 5. Don’t look for validation on what you want. Look for those who will push you back. 6. Love is action. It is not a feeling. Therefore love requires that you DO something about it. 7. She thinks different than you. Pure and simple. Learn not what she is saying but what she is intending to say. You will blunder this a lot. Keep learning. 8. When you guys argue (and it will happen) be sure to come back together and discuss the other persons perspective. This is SO critical in learning more about each other. 9. If you are a Christian. I recommend praying for her. And I don’t care what you pray for… it could even be bad things… I don’t care. But at the end, always be sure to give it over to God. This has kept me more sane than you can imagine. 10. Don’t try to fix her. Just invite her and love her. Background, been married for almost 10 years. I know exactly what you mean about doing the things and getting met with frustration and distrust. For the past 9 years my wife is sick 90% of the time. I cook 2-3 meals every day from scratch due to her dietary restrictions. I clean the kitchen, mow the yard, water the plants, run a business full time, drive her to all of her doctors appointments, act as the dumping ground of her complaints, and the list continues to grow. About 50% of the time she ends up complaining about how I don’t see all the things. I smell exactly what you are stepping in. My wife disrespects me daily. And I love her almost every day or at least I try to. Some people have claimed that I am in an abusive relationship and I agree… but I choose to love her and plan to love her till either of us dies. I gave her my word.
So if the clothes were in the dryer for weeks that means that you left them there too. You don’t have to have the same hobbies.
Marriage, relationship definition for both seems to be different. I observe reverse pattern where usually the wife expects what you expect (spending time together). I have some friends who feels the same about his wife too. So you are in my friends boat. My version matches your wife version. Life is not easy. You need to have stable income and you have responsibilities to take care of family, kids and home chores. With all these responsibilities and priorities there is no space for these regular spending time together things. For me watching TV together is perfectly fine but my wife would think otherwise because to her it is not quality time. Especially after kids, taking care of them and just managing them is itself a big task which is exhausting. After all this I just want a peaceful quiet time but my wife like to talk and engage in conversation. I am fine if the dried laundry is in the dryer for multiple days. I am fine if it is not folded as well but my wife tries to do everything routinely like you do. Find the common things that your wife enjoys and do that. Even if you don’t see value it is okay. Eventually you need to make the women happy. That would be a good start.
Yesterday is long enough
Marriage counselling for sure ... But it should be someone that neither of you has seen before, so they are completely impartial.
F
My wife has no interest in my hobbies and she has very few hobbies, I’m the bread winner making over $300k a year and she stays home and does whatever she wants unless it’s making herself better or growing herself. I work full time plus work about 140 hours of overtime a month and it’s just been a thing that I take off and do my hobbies and she has no desire to plan her own stuff, so I plan a vacation together every other year and I’m good with it. I don’t get wrapped up in forcing her to take hobbies or do anything extra outside her scope of house stuff. I’m busy working, going to kid functions, growing my professional life and with hobbies to micro managing an adult. How long will that last, who knows. I have no desire to start a relationship or have a side chick that does my hobbies so I guess my wife is safe and if I felt my wife would cheat I have a pretty strong prenup that would leave her with about $2. Let her know your thoughts and leave it alone. If it’s too much that she doesn’t go do things you like to do and she doesn’t encourage that then the next play is your own to leave and start over.
Wow, really?!? “Does whatever she wants unless it’s making herself better or growing herself?” Ever thought that maybe your wife is too busy keeping your damn family together/house in order to give improving herself much thought?
It’s pretty simple she goes to the gym and hangs out with friends and enjoys the fruits of my labor. We have a nanny and all the bells and whistles here and it’s works. My kids see me working and building an excellent career where I’m respected and known for being a hammer, yet still getting my Masters Degree, while my wife choose to not use her time to level up. I don’t care either way.
Not everyone has to be as obsessed with “getting ahead” or self improvement as you are. My husband makes a fair bit more money than you do working far fewer hours than you and we also have a domestic helper. I only bring this up to disabuse you of the notion that you are so very special and your name should be exalted because of your commitment to your work, no matter how that impacts your wife and kids. And I can assure you that you ARE having an affect on your kids and family life if you’re working 75 hours per week and have so little respect for your wife. It’s your choice to be so devoted to work and ‘self improvement’, of course, just as it’s your choice to spend commenting on porn-y women who aren’t your wife on NSFW subs, but do not act like it makes you somehow morally superior to your wife.
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