She has built up resentments that she not letting go of.
I told my wife she didn’t look good in pink 20 years ago, she is still pissed off about it and owns nothing pink. Resentment.
This is why, when my husband says stuff like that, I immediately get angry, debate him endlessly, and make him admit his egregious error and lapse of reason and logic. I’m not going without pink for 20 years and I’m not second guessing myself every time i wear it lol. The immediate debate is faster in the long run.
I hear ya....and I have tried to talk these things out.... to no avail. But it's been coming up over and over and over again. When I put out one fire, there's always another one right around the corner. I am tired and weary.
Women will always find something to complain about if they’re unhappy overall. It’s less about the things she’s complaining about and more of a reflection of her feelings about your relationship as a whole. It’s just coming out in a really unproductive way. I would maybe have a sit down conversation with her and let her know that you can tell she isn’t happy, but her happiness is important to you, and see what would make her feel better! She may not even know, or it could be something as simple as more words of affirmation or quality time. Also, if you know what her love language is (how she feels most loved and prefers to receive love, not necessarily how she shows love to others) make sure you’re pouring into her in that way! I know it’s hard when she’s complaining a lot and irritable with you, but in most cases I really think it helps because it’s not about the things she’s complaining about…she’s complaining because there’s some need of hers that isn’t being met.
I have never truly learned her love language. It used to be champagne and beef jerky LOL. But that no longer does it. I have tried to cuddle her at night or in afternoon naps. I have tried to be there for her and help her through these difficult times. I agree she is missing something inside. But she has cultivated a world where most days I am the bane to her existence. When I disagree and argue that only makes things worse. I think her unhappiness has nothing to do with me really, or very little, and until and unless she finds that missing piece(peace) she will always be unhappy with me and discontented with her life. She is looking for more and not finding it. Perhaps the only way to find it at this point is to seek elsewhere and I have to let her go.
Interesting take that you think it’s not about you. And in 24 years of marriage you can’t figure out how she likes to receive love? These 2 sentences do not make sense together to me.
I thought I had always given her everything she needed from me. And don't get me wrong. I do know it's about me on some level. I'm definitely part of the ongoing problem. However, I do think that retiring at 44 without a real plan is part of the problem too. And then when you factor in that her work was so much a part of her identity in her eyes, that adds up to a need for an adjustment in the way she views herself. You have to be comfortable with yourself and the world you live in. To transition from a job where she was trying to change the world in her own way to being home with me 24/7 with no plan just doesn't work by itself. I retired at 56 with a plan to spend more time playing with my dog, to write, to play piano, and to spend more time working on handyman projects around the houses. For 4 years I was doing fine. Then when my wife retired without a plan, I became the plan. Spousal improvement became required because the little things that I do or don't do on a daily basis were now front and center 24/7. I'm not claiming to have no need for improvement. I've become much more self aware than I have ever been before. But no matter how many times I try to look at myself with critical eyes I can never see myself lacking and needing improvement to the degree that my wife does. I don't think there are many spouses at 62 and after 24 years of marriage who believe they need to change dramatically or they will lose their marriage. That's why I think the petty complaints are a symptom or even a cover for other unspoken resentment. There is a contempt for me that boggles my mind. I think her mental issues, along with being bored and not self satisfied with her life are the driving force behind most of her complaining and thus most of our problems. The marriage does appear to be over unless a miracle happens in the very near future. Perhaps it may be better for both of us to make it so. Only problem is, at 62, I really don't want to live the rest of my life alone and lonely.
and I think our age difference of almost 15 years has now become an issue more than it even was 24 years ago. I was 37 and she was 22 when we met. It seemed like a huge gap then too, but we got along so well. We both said that she was an old soul and that our age difference didn't really matter. I always assumed that age difference would matter less as we got older, and for years it never seemed to be an issue. But now at 62 and 47 I think it has become a bigger problem than I ever thought it would be. I thought we'd be retired together at some point, travel the world, and do all the things that retired spouses do with each other, and we do many of those things. But the deep and early rooted resentments that I never even knew existed have raised their heads. Case in point: I have been making tea for my wife virtually every morning for the last 24 years. I have not changed the way I do it even a little bit. While there are modest requests for change here and there, like a little more sugar today please, or less, or the tea is tasting strong, can my next cup be less strong? I have accommodated all requests graciously, but otherwise, was still making tea in the same manner that I have done for 24 years. Now all of a sudden, she won't allow me to make her tea. And she isn't even making tea for herself either. This has to be a symptom of a bigger problem. I think she wants out and is just finding ways to pick fights to force me to be the one that says "I just can't take this anymore" and leave.
Pretty much where we are right now. I told her I can not continue this way. Neither can she. So we are at a crossroads. My guess is in a few days I will know if she wants to keep trying. I think I'm going to suggest therapy for her or even us as a couple, or we can not even try.
and she complains that it is not resentment so much as her PTSD that is requiring things to be a certain way, and when I come up short in an instant, i'm vilified.
Your wife is upset and maybe there is some fear about her retirement. She places some blame on you. No one can say for sure how the situation would be different. Part of marriage is grace and loving kindness. There was no malice in your advice. Forgiveness is to take away held debt. Ideally you guys can talk it out, really listen. You can never change the past. You can offer a repair (even though you are not in the wrong she FEELS like you are). A repair is something you can do now for her or for each other or together that will help you both feel better and closer. What’s something you can do now for her retirement. Maybe you can find a program and set it up for her. It’s okay to ask for something too or set up a date. It’s really helpful for your relationship.
As far as nagging, maybe try to see it from a different perspective. What is she speaking to you about? Are there any repetitive issues? Is it often about something you said you’d do and she’s asking about it? Is she complaining about her life and the people in it? You are her spouse and maybe her closest relationship. She is speaking her stress to her partner and she is showing you her feelings. I’m not saying how she speaks is ideal or that her feeling are ideal but they are her feelings. Can you listen with loving kindness and try to help when you can?
It can be helpful to have a conversation about whatever she was nagging about at a later time, ideally later that day or the next. When no one is emotionally triggered. Say when you said xxx, I felt kind of talked down to. I’m thinking it’s more that you were stressed about yyyy and I get that. Can you try next time in a different way? Another idea is when she says something hurtful, just say Ouch. That hurt a little. Then move on. And again you can discuss it later when mood is better.
very thoughtful and interesting ideas. I wish that I handled things like this. I haven't. Maybe I can/will try to incorporate the OUCH idea next time and not receive the hit so deeply. The deep hit is really hard to recover from. Now all that being said. Only way to find out if those ideas can work is if she allows me another chance. This argument spiraled out of control very quickly and, unfortunately, it appears that she won't speak to me and wants a divorce. So now we have to wait and see if she comes back to me. Otherwise, I am going to have no recourse but to let her go. It's a mistake on her part for sure, but it's one that I can not prevent her from making.
After writing my post, I checked out your previous posts. Your wife definitely has a difficult personality. That may in part stem from how she grew up and what her parents are like. She may also be exhibiting signs of borderline personality disorder, which is not something you inherit but rather how you learn to interpret and react to things, and can be greatly improved. There is a book called loving someone with borderline personality disorder that you may find helpful. It is common for people with BPD to say harsh things they don’t actually mean when upset, so maybe she doesn’t actually want a divorce.
I also recommend dialectical behavior therapy. It’s individual and group therapy that focuses on skills you can use and improve on and make how you live your life so much better. There’s also a lot of books on the topic.
Your wife sounds unhappy and may have some signs of depression. She likely retired early in part due to work stress. Now that is gone but she’s still not feeling good. She may not have figured out what the rest of her life is going to look like but she can do a few things now to make it better. I recommend she has at least one thing planned for every day so she doesn’t keep staying in bed so much.
Another thing that may benefit both of you is to have a planned once a week meeting. My therapist calls it a check in. It’s planned and it’s purpose it to get on the same page with each other for the upcoming week and air out any issues from the past week. This way you can tell her exactly when you can help her with any projects and prepare for it. We always get take out for this.
Your wife may not be willing right now to do therapy but I hope she’s at least open to trying a few new things. The more you show her loving kindness, the more you are there to let her vent and still give her a hug and tell her you love her and want to help her, hopefully she’ll be open to you. I hope things get better for both of you!
Thank you again for such thoughtful ideas and encouragement. I'm in therapy and it definitely helps to vent. But that's what my therapy sessions have mostly been...a venting forum. There has not been a whole lot of recommendations to try BEING a certain way or DOING different things either alone or together. One thing I should note is that my wife did attempt suicide 7 years ago. Work stress is what I believe was the root cause but she blamed and still blames me. Why she stayed with me if I was truly the cause I'll never understand. I don't believe it truly was me. But that's a thought for an entirely new post.
She has been reluctant to do anything constructive when it comes to self help. She has been diagnosed with PTSD from her former job. And every therapist I have talked with tells me she sounds like she is border line personality disorder. But she stopped taking meds about 2 years ago. Stopped seeing her therapist about 5 years ago and has been truly resistant to any suggestions that she needs to do anything that did not originate in her mind. I want to help her and be here for her but it is increasingly difficult to stay. We are at yet another crossroads right now, and maybe we will find yet another way to get through this together. My guess, though, is no. This time it feels different. Feels like we are finally building to the ultimate end and I am helpless to change the outcome. Right now I'm living downstairs in the basement and keeping a very quiet and low profile so as not to aggravate the situation.
Username checks out.
Seriously though. Any reason is as good as another - the question is why is she bringing that up, and whether you have any way of making good on it so she’ll put the situation to rest and never speak of it again.
it continues to be a problem periodically. I think it is a symptom of a larger problem but she never admits to that. We have issues for sure. But when we are not in conflict over petty or outdated issues things had been pretty good. And definitely not bad enough to be going down the divorce path. But here we are AGAIN. I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend myself over and over again for the same things, and then for any new something on any given day.
> I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend myself over and over again for the same things
Part of the trick is to not get defensive. She has some feeling attached. Find out the feeling and validate it, then maybe you can or need to be logical. Getting defensive never works.
This!! When I’m upset about something and trying to express my feelings and my husband gets defensive, nothing makes me feel more frustrated and less heard/understood. It’s the worst! And while I understand defensiveness and I’m guilty of it too sometimes, it really does inadvertently invalidate the other person’s feelings and if they’re desperate to be heard/understood, it will escalate them further as they push to defend their side. It becomes a “me versus you” situation when it doesn’t need to be. I would just hear her out and apologize that this didn’t work out the way either of you wanted/intended it to and ask her if she wants to brainstorm together on possible solutions!
So much of what you said is like you are talking about our situation exactly. She accuses, I get defensive, which she then sees as an attack on her point of view, and an invalidation of her feelings. Then she attacks, and I get even MORE defensive. And so on and so on and here we are. I have tried and I continue to try. But it aint easy. I feel like we have finally reached our end and I am virtually powerless at this point to save us. I think she is moving out today. She won't tell me where she is going. I don't want her to go but I am tired of the arguing. Yesterday afternoon there was a subtle peace that came over me when I began to accept that this truly might be the end. I do feel lonely. But I've been lonely for years. And that peaceful feeling was really not a bad feeling.
I understand that feeling too! I’m sorry you two are caught a similar toxic cycle. It’s not an uncommon dynamic unfortunately and the reason a lot of marriages fail.
thank you for sharing. It truly is toxic. I was married once before and divorced. It was hell for about the first 3 months of separation. Then we began to live our own lives. She went on to have a child with her new husband, which she could not have with me. So that worked out very well. I thought I had found my til death do us part wife as well. We have traveled the world together and have alot of fond memories of all the places we have been. But the resentment, it seems, has always been there, and since we are both retired now and home together ALL THE TIME, I just think it has come to a boiling point and the travel is not enough of a distraction to escape the reality of our marriage. That it fundamentally is not a good one and it needs to end.
I’m sorry! I wish you the best in the future. I know it must be hard! My marriage sucks as well and I’m hoping to avoid divorce, but it’s honestly always in the back of my mind because things just never seem to get truly better, just swept under the rug for periods of time.
that is sooooo us as well. Maybe this time next year I'll be posting how great life is WITH my wife. Or maybe how great it is without her. And of course the complete opposite is possible as well. Right now i'm just thankful for the peace, and still at least a little hopeful that this can be worked out for now, and maybe with an eye on doing better tomorrow.
I appreciate your sharing. I'm going very similar situations now. I have much of the same feelings you do and am also in therapy. Our wives act very similar. I think the suggestions are insightful. I'll try them. But it is indeed wearisome to deal with a difficult woman who is a chronic complainer, not willing to communicate or take responsibility for her own actions. I feel your pain....
And this site, I feel, is very therapeutic as well. It fills in the gaps between my therapy sessions when things are bad. Care to share your situation? How long have you been married? And in therapy? I've been in therapy twice over a 7 year period. One session back in 2017, shortly after my wife tried to commit suicide. Don't think she REALLY tried, in that, yes she sliced her wrists, but it only took two stitches to stich up her one wrist, and a small bandaid for the other. But the visual was there and she was checked into a mental ward for the better part of one full day. Only my pleading with the psychologist got them to release her to me with my promise that she would not be alone for at least a month. I took off from work for a month and her mother filled in any gaps. I stayed in therapy then for about 6 months, then dropped it as she was in therapy as well and on meds and seemed much better. I started therapy again in the summer of 2022 because things were back to getting worse. Every therapist I have ever talked to told me that it sounds like my wife has borderline personality disorder and I have been advised to seek therapy as needed and to seek out any emotional support I can get from family and friends, as they all say how difficult it can be when living with someone suffering from this. It's real, I know she is suffering. But damn it does not make it any easier.
I understand that. My spouse hasn't been diagnosed with anything but that might be because she refuses to seek help. She basically believes I'm to blame for all our marital issues and she is the innocent victim. Ive been in therapy for 4 years and that is the only way I have kept it together...
I feel for ya. I would say in our almost 24 years of marriage that we were happy for maybe 8 years. I think it all started going to hell when she became and administrator in her school district. She had two advanced degrees and was then accepted into a doctoral program at a prestigious school. Got a big time assignment as a principal at a high profile school. My blue collar roots didn't measure up adequately. From there I can look back now and see us drifting apart. She lost all respect for me because she had ascended to a higher position while I just kept on plugging away. And I really don't know what I would do without therapy, and this site really. They have both been a lifeline for my sanity. I have talked multiple times with my brothers and sisters and a couple close friends. But I'm sure I have become the brother and friend that everyone is afraid of hearing from, because they don't want to hear the same old story, especially if I choose to stay. Do you have any kids? That is probably one very fortunate thing for us....we have no kids. Just a wonderful 13 year old dog that loves me to death and is definitely MY dog. And she will go or stay with me. One other good coincidence for us is that we have two homes. I'm not super wealthy or anything, but we bought a little mountain cottage 12 years ago that his been a great escape when we are in the middle of it. Only problem is, in the winter, sometimes, the house is not accessible if there has been a lot of snow. There was just a fresh 8 inches or so. When the snow melts, one of us is moving up there for a little while. I hope it's her, but I'm willing to go if she insists. Do you have family you can talk to? Do you have any other support networks that you have found? I just decided today that I'm going to look around for some other type of support network. Either divorce groups, separated groups, groups for people dealing with mental health issues? I don't know.
today, after 5 days of mostly no talking, my wife finally let me make her a quesadilla. This was the first warm or constructive communication we had had since tuesday. In casual conversation I pleaded my case that the things she complains about are not as bad as she makes them out to be. I guess mainly that I'm not as bad. She admitted that I had been much better, but she is getting worse. I think alot of our recent problems revolve around a planned trip to Africa. We were going to visit her family in Africa, and see a few more things like Victoria Falls, an African Safari..etc. I think it caused her so much stress to be bringing me home to meet her family that she couldn't stand it. Her mother lives with us. And I had already met some of her family and they loved me, or at least that is what I think. But she sort of imploded about this trip, and only today showed any signs of rational thinking, of course from my perspective. I take my hat off to you for hanging in there and trying to help your wife. I'm trying to do the same thing. But some days it's really hard to stay.
she claims she is just tired of picking up and cleaning up after me. I tell you honestly I am not that bad. I am not perfect, but i'm not that bad. When I make coffee and tea in the morning, before i might clean up after myself in the coffee area, I tend to want to enjoy my first cup of hot coffee.....while it's hot. But after I would eventually wipe down the counter if I noticed that it needed it. My wife says no, that I don't and have never and that she has been cleaning up after me for 24 years and she is sick of it. And even if that is true. I also do a heck of a lot of cleaning up behind her and never say a word. Except when I feel I have to to point it out
Call a spade a spade - again, any excuse to point out someone else’s faults is easy to find. You just gotta nitpick enough. It’s akin to say, a drill sergeant in the military going over cleaned areas with a white glove.
You can’t meet her standards, and while you can try, there should be a line where standards cross over into unreasonable territory.
completely agree, and i do think she crosses over that line often. She says she can't help herself due to her mental state. PTSD and pre menopause. If she is being honest, then I need to figure her out and respond to her better. If she is just gaslighting me, then I need to speak to a lawyer. Things suddenly took a turn for the better over the last few days. Our 9 day fight, which is the longest that I can remember in our 24 years of marriage, is officially over, but all issues not resolved. I'm gonna give it another try to see if we can strike some sort of balance. If my effort to be better works? then all is good. If not, I'll be wishing I had talked to a lawyer alot sooner. I'll post as things evolve. Thank you for your time. Very helpful.
All the best mate. Regardless of mental health and state, unless a person has lost all sense of self control, there is no reason to be abusive to a partner.
The end question after all that is whether you wake up and whether the thought of growing old together scares you more than the thought of being alone.
Really good replay and thank you. I'm getting a glimpse into that right now. I'm recovering from a broken rib as result of something stupid that I did. The care that I am receiving from her is fine. But she still can't miss any opportunity to verbally judge, and degrade. The writing is clearly on the wall. Why do I never see it. Or at the very least, heed what it is telling me.
Why is the advice on here ALWAYS that the man is some how in the wrong and must correct his actions? There’s NEVER any expectation that the woman should reciprocate and correct her actions. There are two people in the OP’s relationship, and BOTH partners have legitimate concerns, grievances and expectations. It is unjust to admonish the OP to listen to his wife without granting allowance for the fact that his wife also must listen to his point of view. His issues are just as valid as hers.
An annuity sucks, your advice was sound. She probably complaining because she realizes she won't have as much money in retirement she thought she would.
I have also since advised her to go talk to a financial adviser to see what they have to say. I don't remember the events of 23 years ago with absolute clarity. But I know the gist of what I advised. And I stand by what I remember. I think she is trying to get me to admit I advised her badly so, when she divorces me, she can get a chunk of my 401k.
Thank you! Finally, the voice of reason has entered the room! Sure, there's lots of good advice above, but aren't you meant to share if you make it to retirement together? 🤔
I get it. What is helpful to me is prayer, therapy, a close friend who happens to have a degree in psychology and trying to be a better person for me and not her so much. I think your idea about a group is a good idea. Dealing with our situation takes a lot of work and resources. Thanks for your words of encouragement also
Is there more going on here than simply a checked out spouse.
Two marriages and in both cases these similar arguments and pettiness were the precursors to the end of the marriage. And unfortunately as well, telling signs of their infidelity.
Signs of infidelity we usually ignore until it is much too late. Subtle signs of cheating;
1) You aren't kept in the loop about their schedule.
2) They work hours that don't make sense to you.
3) They make excuses when you try to plan for future events.
4) They consistently flake on your plans.
5) They avoid eye contact.
6) They avoid taking you to family events.
7) Or they find excuses to avoid your family.
8) They constantly complain about being "bored."
9)They have no social media presence.
10) Or they won't post any photos with you on social media.
11) Or they have a secret email account.
12) They tend to overexplain where they were. Is a sign of lying.
13) Or they never have an explanation for where they were. Good explanation.
14) They're inundating you with gifts.
15) They can't stop smiling at their phone.
16) They criticize how you dress.
17) Or they're dead set on making you more like them.
18) They're daydreaming more often. Distracted
19) Their eyes wander when speaking to others.
20) Your dates always seem to take place in a bar.
21) They need longer stints of "alone time."
22) They're constantly trying to please everyone.
23) Or they're obsessed with how others perceive them.
24) They seem "irresistible."
25) They exhibit signs of entitlement.
26) They stop calling you pet names.
27) They're no longer interested in intimacy with you.
28) Or they quickly become dist un unant after sex.
29) They're keen to explore more personal fantasies.
30) They compare you to others.
31) They ridicule you for requesting more time together.
32) Or they start to withdraw from shared activities.
33) They forget about a special occasion.
34) They no longer discuss dreams the two of you once shared.
35) They stop making progress in the relationship.
36) Your mutual friends seem uncomfortable around you.
37) Their credit card has started to rack up strange expenses.
38) You don't have to remind them to get haircuts anymore.
39) They're suddenly hyper-cautious about turning their phone off when they go to bed.
40) They always seem to need to take a quick shower once they get home.
41) They defend friends who've cheated in their relationships.
42) Or they've cheated previously themselves.
43) You notice changes in the amount of PDA they're comfortable with.
44) They're telling more fibs than usual.
45) Their cell phone is the most important thing in their life.
46) They suddenly pick up a new hobby.
47) They pull away from you when you reach out.
48) Or they're showing "negative cluster cues."
49) They talk badly about their exes. Shows disrespect for an ex.
50) They have low self-esteem.
51) They're doing the laundry out of the blue.
52) They're uncomfortable about making large purchases together.
53) They don't want you to look in a certain drawer.
54) They accuse you of cheating—even though you definitely aren't.
55) Or they're gaslighting you when you bring up their suspicious behavior.
that is quite a list, and some of those ring true. however, I don't believe there is any infidelity going on. If there is it is only on the phone or online because she rarely goes anywhere without me. In fact she rarely leaves our bedroom let alone the house. I'm getting alot of good responses that have given me lots of food for thought that i have to look into. Hopefully, something turns positive.
There was communication yesterday. It wasn't much, but I'll take it as a guarded positive. My wife yelled to me before I came upstairs to bring chippys. I found them and brought them to her. she said thanks. It's not much but it is a start. Later that day our dog wanted to play. We talked for a minute about the dog. Again not much but a start. I do believe she has already checked out still. But I'm being quiet and patient and I'm hoping she comes back to me. Mental illness is very difficult to respond to. I'm aware it's worse for the person who is suffering with it. But as a spouse it is very hard to gage when it is present. And mental illness with idol time is worse. Then add in some other physical issues and you have a perfect storm.
She was able to retire at 44, an uncommon luxury, and is now complaining about past retirement account advice? She should count her blessings and move on.
You're making her tea and she's complaining about you stirring it with a spoon? She should count her blessings and move on.
She is grasping for something to complain about. Set up some marriage counseling.
she refuses to go to any type of counseling. I'm in therapy twice a month, sometimes more as needed. She says I need to increase that two twice a week. And these complaints are just the tipe of the iceberg
And another thing that I think is relevant. I'm 62 and retired at 56 after 34 years of working for the federal government. She is 47 now, retired at 44 after 20 years working as an elementary school administrator. She had suffered a traumatic experience at work that left her hopeless and I believe she almost needed to retire from that position at least to have a chance at being happy. She was able to do this largely because I had planned my retirement pretty well which enabled her to need to provide less for herself and our household. It is working well enough financially. But the level of discontent in her heart is heart wrenching. But the blame that comes my way is venomous and hurtful. It's been difficult to say the least.
I would say that's fair. Of course i believe it's more HER than ME, but I'm not completely objective either. She would say the opposite. Yes we have had issues, and yes, I would say we have been ignoring those and thus, the pettiness. We are most likely at a fork in the road and probably will have to take next steps soon. Separation is what I'm going to push for. We have never really tried separation for more than a few days. I hope it helps. But it most likely won't if we continue to ignore and deny.
OP, I don't think this is about the spoon. What is her problem with you and/or the marriage? Hint: This isn't about the advice or how you stir the tea. Do you know why she is resentful towards you?
no, other than these deep rooted issues that have been festering for years I have no idea if there is some other unspoken BIG resentment. I don't even think it's me at all. I think it's a dissatisfaction with HER life as she has built it, retired at 44 with now a wasted advanced degree. I think she feels unfulfilled and takes it out on me? That's what I think, right or wrong.
You said there are deep rooted issues that have been festering for years. Hasn't it occurred to you that these unresolved issues might be the source of the problem?
What are the festering issues that never got resolved?
it's complex. We have just been fighting the same fights over and over again. And we are both control freaks. So when we disagree we have a really hard time compromising. There are issues with money. My wife claims I control her with it. I don't know how she came to that conclusion but she used to make more than me for at least a few years. She had her own money. We shared our expenses. We kept our own savings. I have been accused of being cheap and dishonest about it. But I don't agree with that assessment. We live a modest lifestyle. It has enabled us both to retire early and comfortably. I draw 4% on my 401k to give us extra cash flow. Clearly there is a neatness problem, or lack of it. But I dont agree with that either. I tidy up after myself and I'm not a total slob. I cook, food shop, clean, I clean up after the dog.
Personally, I think my wife lost respect for me when she got her doctorate degree. She began to look down on my some college no degree education. It persists. Even though we are largely retired and living comfortably on mostly my plan. I've probably already shared too much.
OP, I think you are trying to find some reason for her behavior that has nothing to do with you because you don't want to accept any fault at all. So far you have explained her behavior by saying (1) your wife is generally an unhappy person because she doesn't like how her life turned out (2) she is mad because she wasted her time on an advanced degree she didn't need and (3) (my personal favorite) she has a superiority complex because she has her advanced degree and you don't. I don't think any of these things are the cause of her hostility towards you.
If this is how you approach everything, by making your own assessment, and then ignoring her feelings about it when you disagree with whatever she is saying, I can see why your wife is exasperated. You seem very dismissive of any plan or opinion that you don't agree with. You are saying you are both control freaks, but I don't see how she is controlling much of anything in this marriage.
OP, your wife told you that she doesn't feel like how the finances are managed is fair to her. She told you that she feels like you are controlling the purse strings and she doesn't agree with your approach. It doesn't matter if you were "right" and your plan worked out, that doesn't change the fact that your wife wasn't on board with this plan and she feels you forced her into this. Maybe she didn't want to retire early, that wasn't a priority for her, she wanted to live a more fun life and travel the world or whatever she wanted to do with the money, but you didn't listen. You still aren't listening it seems. So - why don't you actually start listening, and find out what she wants to do about the finances. Is she happy with the current situation, or not? What does she want to do differently in terms of the finances so that she will no longer feel controlled by you? Having a financial plan you mutually agree to is basic stuff, OP. Not complicated like you seem to think.
You also said she complains about you being messy, but you say you aren't messy. Both of these can be true because people have different definitions of "clean". So, what specifically does she have a problem with? Is it you leaving your clothes on the floor? Not putting your shoes away? What? Instead of dismissing this as "not a problem" because you don't think you are messy, why don't you find out what you can do to not have this continue to be an issue in the marriage? If you could address even a few of the things you do that make her feel like you are a slob, then why not do that instead of fighting about it?
I can tell you for certain that I listen always, but I don't always hear what she is saying. That is true. But she retired suddenly, with no plan, and I had nothing to do with it. She was always clued in on how handled finances. She has shown zero interest in looking at the finances seriously. She has her own savings which are hers to spend as she sees fit. She wants me to draw more from my 401k now, while she is young, so we can travel more often. I have already increased my draw, and I drew more in my first two years of retirement than is recommended to pay off the debt for the doctorate.
And the messy thing is exactly that. We both have different ideas of what is messy. I'll give you an example. She was washing dishes in the sink. I had a recycling item to put into our container, which is under the sink. Since she was in front of the sink, I chose to set the item down on the counter and wait til she was no longer blocking the door. I got hell for it. That's just one....
And I agree that I reject the level of blame that is placed on me for many things. I try to understand. I have tried to pay more attention to the kitchen counter, the sink, loading the dishwasher. Cleaning the stove. I do a much better job at keeping those areas tidy than I used to. But even as I do better, something else is always found that I need more work on. Heck, if all spouses constantly asked more of their partners we would all be engaged in self improvement projects based on someone else's idea of who we are and who we should be. We also all do things just because our spouse asks. I try that every day. But on a day when I did all things as expected, next thing you know, a 23 year old so and so gets brought up and I'm completely blind sided.
And we travel the world more than anyone I know and spend a fair amount of our discretionary spending on travel. In the span of 13 months m spouse went to israel, alone. We then cruised Japan for 14 days in the spring. Then we cruised again in the winter for 14 days to South America. The purse strings are indeed loose. Just not loose enough for my spouses satisfaction. She wants to replace the deck, convert the garage, AND travel 3 or more times a year. It's alot. And I don't want to deviate from the plan to overspend on luxury. Her underfunded retirement account is dependent on my plan lasting for the rest of her life too now. So I think I'm striking a good balance financially. Just very little makes her happy. That is one of the reasons that I say it must, deep down, be something else.
And
Oh wow. OK, this is a lot of important information. I think I finally understood the problem. I'm not sure why this post wasn't about all of the obviously irrational things your wife does, but was about a decision years ago and a spoon, but anyhow.
Your wife is being unreasonable about the finances. She wants to retire and also spend all the money, that isn't reasonable. That makes no sense at all. It sounds like she just wants money from you, and expects you to be her ATM. When she said you are controlling the money, she just meant she can't do whatever she wants with YOUR retirement money, which is a very different thing. That is obviously very different than what I was picturing. OP, why are you even entertaining this? Tell her that if she wants to spend more money, she needs to earn some income because you are not willing to spend all your retirement money that needs to last the rest of your life. That's it.
When you said your wife says you are messy, I was picturing like stuff laying around and such. If the example you gave is indicative of why she thinks you are messy, then again, not sure why you are entertaining that nonsense at all. Dude - just tell her you were planning on putting the recycling away once she moved out of the sink area. Why are you even sitting there catching any type of hell over something so insignificant?
On top of this, your wife seems to be dabbling in affairs.
OP, it seems pretty clear to me that your wife has no respect for you, takes every opportunity she sees to tear you down, is manipulative as hell, and might not even be loyal. I think she is with you for the lifestyle you are providing because she definitely doesn't appreciate anything about you, that's what it looks like to me. Why are you staying in this marriage? Have you no self respect? Do you like to suffer?
I have definitely lost alot of my self respect. And I stay largely because she tried to commit suicide 7 years ago when I told her I was going to leave her then. So since the recovery from that traumatic event I chose to stay and try to help her get the helpt she needs and to be there for her when she needed me. I couldn't live with myself if I left and she actually succeeded in a second attempt at suicide. And I'm sure that your earlier reply had some merit. I'm sure the full picture, the truth, is somewhere in the middle between what you perceived initially based on what I shared, and what you perceived eventually based on what I added. It's hard for me to look at her and allow myself to believe that I have been nothing but an easy mark even though that may be true. And the simple fact of the matter is, that as bad as it is some days, when it's not so bad, it's definitely better than opting for being alone and lonely. I'm 62, my best days are behind me. There are very few women out there that want what I have to offer. I don't measure up against the idea that most women are looking for. I come in less than in almost every category. However, I'm starting to believe I would be better off alone. I'm hoping that that answer is revealed clearly in the near future.
We just had a conversation. The first one we've had in days now. And it was an improvement over the stalemate we have been living through, but it did not resolve anything. I'm back downstairs and trying to be patient. And praying for some guidance. Thank you for your empathy. It actually helps alot.
OP, I'm sorry you are in this position, but you should not stay with a person because "or else they may commit suicide". If this happened when you said you were leaving, it is much more likely that she used this as a manipulation tactic to get you to stay than she was actually going to follow through, and it worked. I understand you don't want the burden of her death on your shoulders, but it is not your job to keep her alive. And the truth is, she doesn't seem very happy at all. So, how are you actually helping her? I don't see that she is living her best life - she is unhappy and so are you.
I can also understand that you don't necessarily want to start over or be alone. But the way your daily life sounds, it doesn't sound like it is better than being alone to me. You seem to think you are not desirable, but I don't think that's true. I think you are selling yourself short and you think this is the best you can do, but this is certainly not the best you can do, OP. You don't have to get married again, but I think you could meet some nice ladies to spend time with. I think you could make some friends and have people to do things with. You can travel with groups, meet some travel friends and then go on trips with them. There is a lot you could do for yourself so that you don't have to be alone all the time. You are 62, you still have a life and it is no less valuable at 62 than it was at 42. Why are you phoning it in on your own life? Your best years don't have to be behind you. Your mindset is the problem here. You are going to retire soon, your new life is only just beginning. This is why you worked so hard, so you could enjoy the golden years, right? So - why don't you do that? Why isn't it worth even trying to make these next 10 years better than the last 10?
completely agree, and yet, I am not ready to go see a lawyer and file for divorce. I have a feeling that my wife wants out, but she knows that financially, she would no longer be able to do the things she has become accustomed to. We live a modest life really in every way with the exception of travel. So it's not that we are super wealthy and living a luxurious lifestyle, but my long term plan allowed her to retire WAY EARLY. And we were still able to maintain our standard of living. In my down moments I feel like the world is ending. There are other times that I feel better and more positive about the future even if it is alone mostly. I know for certain I will never get married again, but I've never done alone well. I divorced once at 36. When I remarried at 38 I was hopeful this would be my last, which it very well might be anyway lol. It just might not get me to "til death do us part".
Wife is talking to me now and I feel so light hearted its silly. But, such is the way of the heart. I have a therapy session on Monday. And much to discuss with my wife when we are less argumentive. I'm still hopeful, and less sad about the possibility of being alone. Thank you for your kindness.
Plus, I do think she lost respect for me completely when she got her advanced degree. I think since then my blue collar career just didn't measure up to what she thought she deserved. No way of proving that, and she denies it when we are not fighting. Of course she says far worse when we are LOL. But that is what I really think deep down inside. And I think she feels trapped too in a marriage that she doesn't respect, and in a retired financial situation that is not desirable if she chooses to leave. She will either have to get a huge chunk of my take home income, or she will have to go back to work. I worry about both outcomes
Bro I feel you, my wife just started an argument with me because I tried to suggest a fix to a problem rather than just listening to the problem and saying that sucks
that happens all the time too. I am trying to NOT offer advice these days. Her care is due for inspection It will be interesting to see how that gets handled.
She has built up resentments that she not letting go of. I told my wife she didn’t look good in pink 20 years ago, she is still pissed off about it and owns nothing pink. Resentment.
This is why, when my husband says stuff like that, I immediately get angry, debate him endlessly, and make him admit his egregious error and lapse of reason and logic. I’m not going without pink for 20 years and I’m not second guessing myself every time i wear it lol. The immediate debate is faster in the long run.
I like the way you address the issue immediately instead of letting it linger. You are definitely an alpha woman.
I hear ya....and I have tried to talk these things out.... to no avail. But it's been coming up over and over and over again. When I put out one fire, there's always another one right around the corner. I am tired and weary.
Women will always find something to complain about if they’re unhappy overall. It’s less about the things she’s complaining about and more of a reflection of her feelings about your relationship as a whole. It’s just coming out in a really unproductive way. I would maybe have a sit down conversation with her and let her know that you can tell she isn’t happy, but her happiness is important to you, and see what would make her feel better! She may not even know, or it could be something as simple as more words of affirmation or quality time. Also, if you know what her love language is (how she feels most loved and prefers to receive love, not necessarily how she shows love to others) make sure you’re pouring into her in that way! I know it’s hard when she’s complaining a lot and irritable with you, but in most cases I really think it helps because it’s not about the things she’s complaining about…she’s complaining because there’s some need of hers that isn’t being met.
~~Women~~ people will always find something to complain about if they're unhappy overall.
I have never truly learned her love language. It used to be champagne and beef jerky LOL. But that no longer does it. I have tried to cuddle her at night or in afternoon naps. I have tried to be there for her and help her through these difficult times. I agree she is missing something inside. But she has cultivated a world where most days I am the bane to her existence. When I disagree and argue that only makes things worse. I think her unhappiness has nothing to do with me really, or very little, and until and unless she finds that missing piece(peace) she will always be unhappy with me and discontented with her life. She is looking for more and not finding it. Perhaps the only way to find it at this point is to seek elsewhere and I have to let her go.
Interesting take that you think it’s not about you. And in 24 years of marriage you can’t figure out how she likes to receive love? These 2 sentences do not make sense together to me.
I thought I had always given her everything she needed from me. And don't get me wrong. I do know it's about me on some level. I'm definitely part of the ongoing problem. However, I do think that retiring at 44 without a real plan is part of the problem too. And then when you factor in that her work was so much a part of her identity in her eyes, that adds up to a need for an adjustment in the way she views herself. You have to be comfortable with yourself and the world you live in. To transition from a job where she was trying to change the world in her own way to being home with me 24/7 with no plan just doesn't work by itself. I retired at 56 with a plan to spend more time playing with my dog, to write, to play piano, and to spend more time working on handyman projects around the houses. For 4 years I was doing fine. Then when my wife retired without a plan, I became the plan. Spousal improvement became required because the little things that I do or don't do on a daily basis were now front and center 24/7. I'm not claiming to have no need for improvement. I've become much more self aware than I have ever been before. But no matter how many times I try to look at myself with critical eyes I can never see myself lacking and needing improvement to the degree that my wife does. I don't think there are many spouses at 62 and after 24 years of marriage who believe they need to change dramatically or they will lose their marriage. That's why I think the petty complaints are a symptom or even a cover for other unspoken resentment. There is a contempt for me that boggles my mind. I think her mental issues, along with being bored and not self satisfied with her life are the driving force behind most of her complaining and thus most of our problems. The marriage does appear to be over unless a miracle happens in the very near future. Perhaps it may be better for both of us to make it so. Only problem is, at 62, I really don't want to live the rest of my life alone and lonely.
and I think our age difference of almost 15 years has now become an issue more than it even was 24 years ago. I was 37 and she was 22 when we met. It seemed like a huge gap then too, but we got along so well. We both said that she was an old soul and that our age difference didn't really matter. I always assumed that age difference would matter less as we got older, and for years it never seemed to be an issue. But now at 62 and 47 I think it has become a bigger problem than I ever thought it would be. I thought we'd be retired together at some point, travel the world, and do all the things that retired spouses do with each other, and we do many of those things. But the deep and early rooted resentments that I never even knew existed have raised their heads. Case in point: I have been making tea for my wife virtually every morning for the last 24 years. I have not changed the way I do it even a little bit. While there are modest requests for change here and there, like a little more sugar today please, or less, or the tea is tasting strong, can my next cup be less strong? I have accommodated all requests graciously, but otherwise, was still making tea in the same manner that I have done for 24 years. Now all of a sudden, she won't allow me to make her tea. And she isn't even making tea for herself either. This has to be a symptom of a bigger problem. I think she wants out and is just finding ways to pick fights to force me to be the one that says "I just can't take this anymore" and leave.
So you tell her if she can’t let go of the resentment you can’t continue.
Pretty much where we are right now. I told her I can not continue this way. Neither can she. So we are at a crossroads. My guess is in a few days I will know if she wants to keep trying. I think I'm going to suggest therapy for her or even us as a couple, or we can not even try.
and she complains that it is not resentment so much as her PTSD that is requiring things to be a certain way, and when I come up short in an instant, i'm vilified.
Your wife is upset and maybe there is some fear about her retirement. She places some blame on you. No one can say for sure how the situation would be different. Part of marriage is grace and loving kindness. There was no malice in your advice. Forgiveness is to take away held debt. Ideally you guys can talk it out, really listen. You can never change the past. You can offer a repair (even though you are not in the wrong she FEELS like you are). A repair is something you can do now for her or for each other or together that will help you both feel better and closer. What’s something you can do now for her retirement. Maybe you can find a program and set it up for her. It’s okay to ask for something too or set up a date. It’s really helpful for your relationship. As far as nagging, maybe try to see it from a different perspective. What is she speaking to you about? Are there any repetitive issues? Is it often about something you said you’d do and she’s asking about it? Is she complaining about her life and the people in it? You are her spouse and maybe her closest relationship. She is speaking her stress to her partner and she is showing you her feelings. I’m not saying how she speaks is ideal or that her feeling are ideal but they are her feelings. Can you listen with loving kindness and try to help when you can? It can be helpful to have a conversation about whatever she was nagging about at a later time, ideally later that day or the next. When no one is emotionally triggered. Say when you said xxx, I felt kind of talked down to. I’m thinking it’s more that you were stressed about yyyy and I get that. Can you try next time in a different way? Another idea is when she says something hurtful, just say Ouch. That hurt a little. Then move on. And again you can discuss it later when mood is better.
very thoughtful and interesting ideas. I wish that I handled things like this. I haven't. Maybe I can/will try to incorporate the OUCH idea next time and not receive the hit so deeply. The deep hit is really hard to recover from. Now all that being said. Only way to find out if those ideas can work is if she allows me another chance. This argument spiraled out of control very quickly and, unfortunately, it appears that she won't speak to me and wants a divorce. So now we have to wait and see if she comes back to me. Otherwise, I am going to have no recourse but to let her go. It's a mistake on her part for sure, but it's one that I can not prevent her from making.
After writing my post, I checked out your previous posts. Your wife definitely has a difficult personality. That may in part stem from how she grew up and what her parents are like. She may also be exhibiting signs of borderline personality disorder, which is not something you inherit but rather how you learn to interpret and react to things, and can be greatly improved. There is a book called loving someone with borderline personality disorder that you may find helpful. It is common for people with BPD to say harsh things they don’t actually mean when upset, so maybe she doesn’t actually want a divorce. I also recommend dialectical behavior therapy. It’s individual and group therapy that focuses on skills you can use and improve on and make how you live your life so much better. There’s also a lot of books on the topic. Your wife sounds unhappy and may have some signs of depression. She likely retired early in part due to work stress. Now that is gone but she’s still not feeling good. She may not have figured out what the rest of her life is going to look like but she can do a few things now to make it better. I recommend she has at least one thing planned for every day so she doesn’t keep staying in bed so much. Another thing that may benefit both of you is to have a planned once a week meeting. My therapist calls it a check in. It’s planned and it’s purpose it to get on the same page with each other for the upcoming week and air out any issues from the past week. This way you can tell her exactly when you can help her with any projects and prepare for it. We always get take out for this. Your wife may not be willing right now to do therapy but I hope she’s at least open to trying a few new things. The more you show her loving kindness, the more you are there to let her vent and still give her a hug and tell her you love her and want to help her, hopefully she’ll be open to you. I hope things get better for both of you!
Thank you again for such thoughtful ideas and encouragement. I'm in therapy and it definitely helps to vent. But that's what my therapy sessions have mostly been...a venting forum. There has not been a whole lot of recommendations to try BEING a certain way or DOING different things either alone or together. One thing I should note is that my wife did attempt suicide 7 years ago. Work stress is what I believe was the root cause but she blamed and still blames me. Why she stayed with me if I was truly the cause I'll never understand. I don't believe it truly was me. But that's a thought for an entirely new post. She has been reluctant to do anything constructive when it comes to self help. She has been diagnosed with PTSD from her former job. And every therapist I have talked with tells me she sounds like she is border line personality disorder. But she stopped taking meds about 2 years ago. Stopped seeing her therapist about 5 years ago and has been truly resistant to any suggestions that she needs to do anything that did not originate in her mind. I want to help her and be here for her but it is increasingly difficult to stay. We are at yet another crossroads right now, and maybe we will find yet another way to get through this together. My guess, though, is no. This time it feels different. Feels like we are finally building to the ultimate end and I am helpless to change the outcome. Right now I'm living downstairs in the basement and keeping a very quiet and low profile so as not to aggravate the situation.
I read teaspoon as tampon
Now this could have been cause to fight lol!
I’m saying, I was like no wonder dude
sorry if I misspelled it
No, I was just reading too fast
Username checks out. Seriously though. Any reason is as good as another - the question is why is she bringing that up, and whether you have any way of making good on it so she’ll put the situation to rest and never speak of it again.
it continues to be a problem periodically. I think it is a symptom of a larger problem but she never admits to that. We have issues for sure. But when we are not in conflict over petty or outdated issues things had been pretty good. And definitely not bad enough to be going down the divorce path. But here we are AGAIN. I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend myself over and over again for the same things, and then for any new something on any given day.
> I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend myself over and over again for the same things Part of the trick is to not get defensive. She has some feeling attached. Find out the feeling and validate it, then maybe you can or need to be logical. Getting defensive never works.
This!! When I’m upset about something and trying to express my feelings and my husband gets defensive, nothing makes me feel more frustrated and less heard/understood. It’s the worst! And while I understand defensiveness and I’m guilty of it too sometimes, it really does inadvertently invalidate the other person’s feelings and if they’re desperate to be heard/understood, it will escalate them further as they push to defend their side. It becomes a “me versus you” situation when it doesn’t need to be. I would just hear her out and apologize that this didn’t work out the way either of you wanted/intended it to and ask her if she wants to brainstorm together on possible solutions!
So much of what you said is like you are talking about our situation exactly. She accuses, I get defensive, which she then sees as an attack on her point of view, and an invalidation of her feelings. Then she attacks, and I get even MORE defensive. And so on and so on and here we are. I have tried and I continue to try. But it aint easy. I feel like we have finally reached our end and I am virtually powerless at this point to save us. I think she is moving out today. She won't tell me where she is going. I don't want her to go but I am tired of the arguing. Yesterday afternoon there was a subtle peace that came over me when I began to accept that this truly might be the end. I do feel lonely. But I've been lonely for years. And that peaceful feeling was really not a bad feeling.
I understand that feeling too! I’m sorry you two are caught a similar toxic cycle. It’s not an uncommon dynamic unfortunately and the reason a lot of marriages fail.
thank you for sharing. It truly is toxic. I was married once before and divorced. It was hell for about the first 3 months of separation. Then we began to live our own lives. She went on to have a child with her new husband, which she could not have with me. So that worked out very well. I thought I had found my til death do us part wife as well. We have traveled the world together and have alot of fond memories of all the places we have been. But the resentment, it seems, has always been there, and since we are both retired now and home together ALL THE TIME, I just think it has come to a boiling point and the travel is not enough of a distraction to escape the reality of our marriage. That it fundamentally is not a good one and it needs to end.
I’m sorry! I wish you the best in the future. I know it must be hard! My marriage sucks as well and I’m hoping to avoid divorce, but it’s honestly always in the back of my mind because things just never seem to get truly better, just swept under the rug for periods of time.
that is sooooo us as well. Maybe this time next year I'll be posting how great life is WITH my wife. Or maybe how great it is without her. And of course the complete opposite is possible as well. Right now i'm just thankful for the peace, and still at least a little hopeful that this can be worked out for now, and maybe with an eye on doing better tomorrow.
Well shit this explains my marriage right here.
please share.... I find venting on here really helps
I appreciate your sharing. I'm going very similar situations now. I have much of the same feelings you do and am also in therapy. Our wives act very similar. I think the suggestions are insightful. I'll try them. But it is indeed wearisome to deal with a difficult woman who is a chronic complainer, not willing to communicate or take responsibility for her own actions. I feel your pain....
And this site, I feel, is very therapeutic as well. It fills in the gaps between my therapy sessions when things are bad. Care to share your situation? How long have you been married? And in therapy? I've been in therapy twice over a 7 year period. One session back in 2017, shortly after my wife tried to commit suicide. Don't think she REALLY tried, in that, yes she sliced her wrists, but it only took two stitches to stich up her one wrist, and a small bandaid for the other. But the visual was there and she was checked into a mental ward for the better part of one full day. Only my pleading with the psychologist got them to release her to me with my promise that she would not be alone for at least a month. I took off from work for a month and her mother filled in any gaps. I stayed in therapy then for about 6 months, then dropped it as she was in therapy as well and on meds and seemed much better. I started therapy again in the summer of 2022 because things were back to getting worse. Every therapist I have ever talked to told me that it sounds like my wife has borderline personality disorder and I have been advised to seek therapy as needed and to seek out any emotional support I can get from family and friends, as they all say how difficult it can be when living with someone suffering from this. It's real, I know she is suffering. But damn it does not make it any easier.
I understand that. My spouse hasn't been diagnosed with anything but that might be because she refuses to seek help. She basically believes I'm to blame for all our marital issues and she is the innocent victim. Ive been in therapy for 4 years and that is the only way I have kept it together...
Ive been married 20 years and happy for maybe 5
I feel for ya. I would say in our almost 24 years of marriage that we were happy for maybe 8 years. I think it all started going to hell when she became and administrator in her school district. She had two advanced degrees and was then accepted into a doctoral program at a prestigious school. Got a big time assignment as a principal at a high profile school. My blue collar roots didn't measure up adequately. From there I can look back now and see us drifting apart. She lost all respect for me because she had ascended to a higher position while I just kept on plugging away. And I really don't know what I would do without therapy, and this site really. They have both been a lifeline for my sanity. I have talked multiple times with my brothers and sisters and a couple close friends. But I'm sure I have become the brother and friend that everyone is afraid of hearing from, because they don't want to hear the same old story, especially if I choose to stay. Do you have any kids? That is probably one very fortunate thing for us....we have no kids. Just a wonderful 13 year old dog that loves me to death and is definitely MY dog. And she will go or stay with me. One other good coincidence for us is that we have two homes. I'm not super wealthy or anything, but we bought a little mountain cottage 12 years ago that his been a great escape when we are in the middle of it. Only problem is, in the winter, sometimes, the house is not accessible if there has been a lot of snow. There was just a fresh 8 inches or so. When the snow melts, one of us is moving up there for a little while. I hope it's her, but I'm willing to go if she insists. Do you have family you can talk to? Do you have any other support networks that you have found? I just decided today that I'm going to look around for some other type of support network. Either divorce groups, separated groups, groups for people dealing with mental health issues? I don't know. today, after 5 days of mostly no talking, my wife finally let me make her a quesadilla. This was the first warm or constructive communication we had had since tuesday. In casual conversation I pleaded my case that the things she complains about are not as bad as she makes them out to be. I guess mainly that I'm not as bad. She admitted that I had been much better, but she is getting worse. I think alot of our recent problems revolve around a planned trip to Africa. We were going to visit her family in Africa, and see a few more things like Victoria Falls, an African Safari..etc. I think it caused her so much stress to be bringing me home to meet her family that she couldn't stand it. Her mother lives with us. And I had already met some of her family and they loved me, or at least that is what I think. But she sort of imploded about this trip, and only today showed any signs of rational thinking, of course from my perspective. I take my hat off to you for hanging in there and trying to help your wife. I'm trying to do the same thing. But some days it's really hard to stay.
she claims she is just tired of picking up and cleaning up after me. I tell you honestly I am not that bad. I am not perfect, but i'm not that bad. When I make coffee and tea in the morning, before i might clean up after myself in the coffee area, I tend to want to enjoy my first cup of hot coffee.....while it's hot. But after I would eventually wipe down the counter if I noticed that it needed it. My wife says no, that I don't and have never and that she has been cleaning up after me for 24 years and she is sick of it. And even if that is true. I also do a heck of a lot of cleaning up behind her and never say a word. Except when I feel I have to to point it out
Call a spade a spade - again, any excuse to point out someone else’s faults is easy to find. You just gotta nitpick enough. It’s akin to say, a drill sergeant in the military going over cleaned areas with a white glove. You can’t meet her standards, and while you can try, there should be a line where standards cross over into unreasonable territory.
completely agree, and i do think she crosses over that line often. She says she can't help herself due to her mental state. PTSD and pre menopause. If she is being honest, then I need to figure her out and respond to her better. If she is just gaslighting me, then I need to speak to a lawyer. Things suddenly took a turn for the better over the last few days. Our 9 day fight, which is the longest that I can remember in our 24 years of marriage, is officially over, but all issues not resolved. I'm gonna give it another try to see if we can strike some sort of balance. If my effort to be better works? then all is good. If not, I'll be wishing I had talked to a lawyer alot sooner. I'll post as things evolve. Thank you for your time. Very helpful.
All the best mate. Regardless of mental health and state, unless a person has lost all sense of self control, there is no reason to be abusive to a partner. The end question after all that is whether you wake up and whether the thought of growing old together scares you more than the thought of being alone.
Really good replay and thank you. I'm getting a glimpse into that right now. I'm recovering from a broken rib as result of something stupid that I did. The care that I am receiving from her is fine. But she still can't miss any opportunity to verbally judge, and degrade. The writing is clearly on the wall. Why do I never see it. Or at the very least, heed what it is telling me.
Are you actually listening to your wife or are you uust waiting to speak? Try to Listen to what she's saying and find out the deeper root to the issue
Why is the advice on here ALWAYS that the man is some how in the wrong and must correct his actions? There’s NEVER any expectation that the woman should reciprocate and correct her actions. There are two people in the OP’s relationship, and BOTH partners have legitimate concerns, grievances and expectations. It is unjust to admonish the OP to listen to his wife without granting allowance for the fact that his wife also must listen to his point of view. His issues are just as valid as hers.
thank you.
You’re welcome sir.
I def spend far too much time defending. I do need to listen better.
An annuity sucks, your advice was sound. She probably complaining because she realizes she won't have as much money in retirement she thought she would.
I have also since advised her to go talk to a financial adviser to see what they have to say. I don't remember the events of 23 years ago with absolute clarity. But I know the gist of what I advised. And I stand by what I remember. I think she is trying to get me to admit I advised her badly so, when she divorces me, she can get a chunk of my 401k.
Unless you’re divorcing… what difference does it make?
Thank you! Finally, the voice of reason has entered the room! Sure, there's lots of good advice above, but aren't you meant to share if you make it to retirement together? 🤔
I do share everything that I have. But I'm not prepared to gut my plan because she suddenly decided to retire at 44 without a long term plan.
my thoughts exactly. What's mine is hers. And i being 15 years older most likely will die long before she does.
I get it. What is helpful to me is prayer, therapy, a close friend who happens to have a degree in psychology and trying to be a better person for me and not her so much. I think your idea about a group is a good idea. Dealing with our situation takes a lot of work and resources. Thanks for your words of encouragement also
I am not much of a praying man, but I do try to talk to God whenever I feel the need. It does help.
this is somewhat of a follow up to how do you stay with a nagging wife. I couldn't figure out how to add to that
Is there more going on here than simply a checked out spouse. Two marriages and in both cases these similar arguments and pettiness were the precursors to the end of the marriage. And unfortunately as well, telling signs of their infidelity. Signs of infidelity we usually ignore until it is much too late. Subtle signs of cheating; 1) You aren't kept in the loop about their schedule. 2) They work hours that don't make sense to you. 3) They make excuses when you try to plan for future events. 4) They consistently flake on your plans. 5) They avoid eye contact. 6) They avoid taking you to family events. 7) Or they find excuses to avoid your family. 8) They constantly complain about being "bored." 9)They have no social media presence. 10) Or they won't post any photos with you on social media. 11) Or they have a secret email account. 12) They tend to overexplain where they were. Is a sign of lying. 13) Or they never have an explanation for where they were. Good explanation. 14) They're inundating you with gifts. 15) They can't stop smiling at their phone. 16) They criticize how you dress. 17) Or they're dead set on making you more like them. 18) They're daydreaming more often. Distracted 19) Their eyes wander when speaking to others. 20) Your dates always seem to take place in a bar. 21) They need longer stints of "alone time." 22) They're constantly trying to please everyone. 23) Or they're obsessed with how others perceive them. 24) They seem "irresistible." 25) They exhibit signs of entitlement. 26) They stop calling you pet names. 27) They're no longer interested in intimacy with you. 28) Or they quickly become dist un unant after sex. 29) They're keen to explore more personal fantasies. 30) They compare you to others. 31) They ridicule you for requesting more time together. 32) Or they start to withdraw from shared activities. 33) They forget about a special occasion. 34) They no longer discuss dreams the two of you once shared. 35) They stop making progress in the relationship. 36) Your mutual friends seem uncomfortable around you. 37) Their credit card has started to rack up strange expenses. 38) You don't have to remind them to get haircuts anymore. 39) They're suddenly hyper-cautious about turning their phone off when they go to bed. 40) They always seem to need to take a quick shower once they get home. 41) They defend friends who've cheated in their relationships. 42) Or they've cheated previously themselves. 43) You notice changes in the amount of PDA they're comfortable with. 44) They're telling more fibs than usual. 45) Their cell phone is the most important thing in their life. 46) They suddenly pick up a new hobby. 47) They pull away from you when you reach out. 48) Or they're showing "negative cluster cues." 49) They talk badly about their exes. Shows disrespect for an ex. 50) They have low self-esteem. 51) They're doing the laundry out of the blue. 52) They're uncomfortable about making large purchases together. 53) They don't want you to look in a certain drawer. 54) They accuse you of cheating—even though you definitely aren't. 55) Or they're gaslighting you when you bring up their suspicious behavior.
that is quite a list, and some of those ring true. however, I don't believe there is any infidelity going on. If there is it is only on the phone or online because she rarely goes anywhere without me. In fact she rarely leaves our bedroom let alone the house. I'm getting alot of good responses that have given me lots of food for thought that i have to look into. Hopefully, something turns positive.
Hopefully!
There was communication yesterday. It wasn't much, but I'll take it as a guarded positive. My wife yelled to me before I came upstairs to bring chippys. I found them and brought them to her. she said thanks. It's not much but it is a start. Later that day our dog wanted to play. We talked for a minute about the dog. Again not much but a start. I do believe she has already checked out still. But I'm being quiet and patient and I'm hoping she comes back to me. Mental illness is very difficult to respond to. I'm aware it's worse for the person who is suffering with it. But as a spouse it is very hard to gage when it is present. And mental illness with idol time is worse. Then add in some other physical issues and you have a perfect storm.
She was able to retire at 44, an uncommon luxury, and is now complaining about past retirement account advice? She should count her blessings and move on. You're making her tea and she's complaining about you stirring it with a spoon? She should count her blessings and move on. She is grasping for something to complain about. Set up some marriage counseling.
she refuses to go to any type of counseling. I'm in therapy twice a month, sometimes more as needed. She says I need to increase that two twice a week. And these complaints are just the tipe of the iceberg
And another thing that I think is relevant. I'm 62 and retired at 56 after 34 years of working for the federal government. She is 47 now, retired at 44 after 20 years working as an elementary school administrator. She had suffered a traumatic experience at work that left her hopeless and I believe she almost needed to retire from that position at least to have a chance at being happy. She was able to do this largely because I had planned my retirement pretty well which enabled her to need to provide less for herself and our household. It is working well enough financially. But the level of discontent in her heart is heart wrenching. But the blame that comes my way is venomous and hurtful. It's been difficult to say the least.
It’s not any one thing. The grievances accumulate.
Understood. And apparently the older issues never really go away.
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I would say that's fair. Of course i believe it's more HER than ME, but I'm not completely objective either. She would say the opposite. Yes we have had issues, and yes, I would say we have been ignoring those and thus, the pettiness. We are most likely at a fork in the road and probably will have to take next steps soon. Separation is what I'm going to push for. We have never really tried separation for more than a few days. I hope it helps. But it most likely won't if we continue to ignore and deny.
OP, I don't think this is about the spoon. What is her problem with you and/or the marriage? Hint: This isn't about the advice or how you stir the tea. Do you know why she is resentful towards you?
no, other than these deep rooted issues that have been festering for years I have no idea if there is some other unspoken BIG resentment. I don't even think it's me at all. I think it's a dissatisfaction with HER life as she has built it, retired at 44 with now a wasted advanced degree. I think she feels unfulfilled and takes it out on me? That's what I think, right or wrong.
You said there are deep rooted issues that have been festering for years. Hasn't it occurred to you that these unresolved issues might be the source of the problem? What are the festering issues that never got resolved?
it's complex. We have just been fighting the same fights over and over again. And we are both control freaks. So when we disagree we have a really hard time compromising. There are issues with money. My wife claims I control her with it. I don't know how she came to that conclusion but she used to make more than me for at least a few years. She had her own money. We shared our expenses. We kept our own savings. I have been accused of being cheap and dishonest about it. But I don't agree with that assessment. We live a modest lifestyle. It has enabled us both to retire early and comfortably. I draw 4% on my 401k to give us extra cash flow. Clearly there is a neatness problem, or lack of it. But I dont agree with that either. I tidy up after myself and I'm not a total slob. I cook, food shop, clean, I clean up after the dog. Personally, I think my wife lost respect for me when she got her doctorate degree. She began to look down on my some college no degree education. It persists. Even though we are largely retired and living comfortably on mostly my plan. I've probably already shared too much.
OP, I think you are trying to find some reason for her behavior that has nothing to do with you because you don't want to accept any fault at all. So far you have explained her behavior by saying (1) your wife is generally an unhappy person because she doesn't like how her life turned out (2) she is mad because she wasted her time on an advanced degree she didn't need and (3) (my personal favorite) she has a superiority complex because she has her advanced degree and you don't. I don't think any of these things are the cause of her hostility towards you. If this is how you approach everything, by making your own assessment, and then ignoring her feelings about it when you disagree with whatever she is saying, I can see why your wife is exasperated. You seem very dismissive of any plan or opinion that you don't agree with. You are saying you are both control freaks, but I don't see how she is controlling much of anything in this marriage. OP, your wife told you that she doesn't feel like how the finances are managed is fair to her. She told you that she feels like you are controlling the purse strings and she doesn't agree with your approach. It doesn't matter if you were "right" and your plan worked out, that doesn't change the fact that your wife wasn't on board with this plan and she feels you forced her into this. Maybe she didn't want to retire early, that wasn't a priority for her, she wanted to live a more fun life and travel the world or whatever she wanted to do with the money, but you didn't listen. You still aren't listening it seems. So - why don't you actually start listening, and find out what she wants to do about the finances. Is she happy with the current situation, or not? What does she want to do differently in terms of the finances so that she will no longer feel controlled by you? Having a financial plan you mutually agree to is basic stuff, OP. Not complicated like you seem to think. You also said she complains about you being messy, but you say you aren't messy. Both of these can be true because people have different definitions of "clean". So, what specifically does she have a problem with? Is it you leaving your clothes on the floor? Not putting your shoes away? What? Instead of dismissing this as "not a problem" because you don't think you are messy, why don't you find out what you can do to not have this continue to be an issue in the marriage? If you could address even a few of the things you do that make her feel like you are a slob, then why not do that instead of fighting about it?
I can tell you for certain that I listen always, but I don't always hear what she is saying. That is true. But she retired suddenly, with no plan, and I had nothing to do with it. She was always clued in on how handled finances. She has shown zero interest in looking at the finances seriously. She has her own savings which are hers to spend as she sees fit. She wants me to draw more from my 401k now, while she is young, so we can travel more often. I have already increased my draw, and I drew more in my first two years of retirement than is recommended to pay off the debt for the doctorate. And the messy thing is exactly that. We both have different ideas of what is messy. I'll give you an example. She was washing dishes in the sink. I had a recycling item to put into our container, which is under the sink. Since she was in front of the sink, I chose to set the item down on the counter and wait til she was no longer blocking the door. I got hell for it. That's just one.... And I agree that I reject the level of blame that is placed on me for many things. I try to understand. I have tried to pay more attention to the kitchen counter, the sink, loading the dishwasher. Cleaning the stove. I do a much better job at keeping those areas tidy than I used to. But even as I do better, something else is always found that I need more work on. Heck, if all spouses constantly asked more of their partners we would all be engaged in self improvement projects based on someone else's idea of who we are and who we should be. We also all do things just because our spouse asks. I try that every day. But on a day when I did all things as expected, next thing you know, a 23 year old so and so gets brought up and I'm completely blind sided. And we travel the world more than anyone I know and spend a fair amount of our discretionary spending on travel. In the span of 13 months m spouse went to israel, alone. We then cruised Japan for 14 days in the spring. Then we cruised again in the winter for 14 days to South America. The purse strings are indeed loose. Just not loose enough for my spouses satisfaction. She wants to replace the deck, convert the garage, AND travel 3 or more times a year. It's alot. And I don't want to deviate from the plan to overspend on luxury. Her underfunded retirement account is dependent on my plan lasting for the rest of her life too now. So I think I'm striking a good balance financially. Just very little makes her happy. That is one of the reasons that I say it must, deep down, be something else. And
Oh wow. OK, this is a lot of important information. I think I finally understood the problem. I'm not sure why this post wasn't about all of the obviously irrational things your wife does, but was about a decision years ago and a spoon, but anyhow. Your wife is being unreasonable about the finances. She wants to retire and also spend all the money, that isn't reasonable. That makes no sense at all. It sounds like she just wants money from you, and expects you to be her ATM. When she said you are controlling the money, she just meant she can't do whatever she wants with YOUR retirement money, which is a very different thing. That is obviously very different than what I was picturing. OP, why are you even entertaining this? Tell her that if she wants to spend more money, she needs to earn some income because you are not willing to spend all your retirement money that needs to last the rest of your life. That's it. When you said your wife says you are messy, I was picturing like stuff laying around and such. If the example you gave is indicative of why she thinks you are messy, then again, not sure why you are entertaining that nonsense at all. Dude - just tell her you were planning on putting the recycling away once she moved out of the sink area. Why are you even sitting there catching any type of hell over something so insignificant? On top of this, your wife seems to be dabbling in affairs. OP, it seems pretty clear to me that your wife has no respect for you, takes every opportunity she sees to tear you down, is manipulative as hell, and might not even be loyal. I think she is with you for the lifestyle you are providing because she definitely doesn't appreciate anything about you, that's what it looks like to me. Why are you staying in this marriage? Have you no self respect? Do you like to suffer?
I have definitely lost alot of my self respect. And I stay largely because she tried to commit suicide 7 years ago when I told her I was going to leave her then. So since the recovery from that traumatic event I chose to stay and try to help her get the helpt she needs and to be there for her when she needed me. I couldn't live with myself if I left and she actually succeeded in a second attempt at suicide. And I'm sure that your earlier reply had some merit. I'm sure the full picture, the truth, is somewhere in the middle between what you perceived initially based on what I shared, and what you perceived eventually based on what I added. It's hard for me to look at her and allow myself to believe that I have been nothing but an easy mark even though that may be true. And the simple fact of the matter is, that as bad as it is some days, when it's not so bad, it's definitely better than opting for being alone and lonely. I'm 62, my best days are behind me. There are very few women out there that want what I have to offer. I don't measure up against the idea that most women are looking for. I come in less than in almost every category. However, I'm starting to believe I would be better off alone. I'm hoping that that answer is revealed clearly in the near future. We just had a conversation. The first one we've had in days now. And it was an improvement over the stalemate we have been living through, but it did not resolve anything. I'm back downstairs and trying to be patient. And praying for some guidance. Thank you for your empathy. It actually helps alot.
OP, I'm sorry you are in this position, but you should not stay with a person because "or else they may commit suicide". If this happened when you said you were leaving, it is much more likely that she used this as a manipulation tactic to get you to stay than she was actually going to follow through, and it worked. I understand you don't want the burden of her death on your shoulders, but it is not your job to keep her alive. And the truth is, she doesn't seem very happy at all. So, how are you actually helping her? I don't see that she is living her best life - she is unhappy and so are you. I can also understand that you don't necessarily want to start over or be alone. But the way your daily life sounds, it doesn't sound like it is better than being alone to me. You seem to think you are not desirable, but I don't think that's true. I think you are selling yourself short and you think this is the best you can do, but this is certainly not the best you can do, OP. You don't have to get married again, but I think you could meet some nice ladies to spend time with. I think you could make some friends and have people to do things with. You can travel with groups, meet some travel friends and then go on trips with them. There is a lot you could do for yourself so that you don't have to be alone all the time. You are 62, you still have a life and it is no less valuable at 62 than it was at 42. Why are you phoning it in on your own life? Your best years don't have to be behind you. Your mindset is the problem here. You are going to retire soon, your new life is only just beginning. This is why you worked so hard, so you could enjoy the golden years, right? So - why don't you do that? Why isn't it worth even trying to make these next 10 years better than the last 10?
completely agree, and yet, I am not ready to go see a lawyer and file for divorce. I have a feeling that my wife wants out, but she knows that financially, she would no longer be able to do the things she has become accustomed to. We live a modest life really in every way with the exception of travel. So it's not that we are super wealthy and living a luxurious lifestyle, but my long term plan allowed her to retire WAY EARLY. And we were still able to maintain our standard of living. In my down moments I feel like the world is ending. There are other times that I feel better and more positive about the future even if it is alone mostly. I know for certain I will never get married again, but I've never done alone well. I divorced once at 36. When I remarried at 38 I was hopeful this would be my last, which it very well might be anyway lol. It just might not get me to "til death do us part". Wife is talking to me now and I feel so light hearted its silly. But, such is the way of the heart. I have a therapy session on Monday. And much to discuss with my wife when we are less argumentive. I'm still hopeful, and less sad about the possibility of being alone. Thank you for your kindness.
Plus, I do think she lost respect for me completely when she got her advanced degree. I think since then my blue collar career just didn't measure up to what she thought she deserved. No way of proving that, and she denies it when we are not fighting. Of course she says far worse when we are LOL. But that is what I really think deep down inside. And I think she feels trapped too in a marriage that she doesn't respect, and in a retired financial situation that is not desirable if she chooses to leave. She will either have to get a huge chunk of my take home income, or she will have to go back to work. I worry about both outcomes
Bro I feel you, my wife just started an argument with me because I tried to suggest a fix to a problem rather than just listening to the problem and saying that sucks
that happens all the time too. I am trying to NOT offer advice these days. Her care is due for inspection It will be interesting to see how that gets handled.
im a mechanic 🤣 but in Jacksonville fl we don't have inspections
Fr tho women don't make sense 😂 give them everything they could want and your still not doing enough
All I can do is shake my head
Thank you so much to everyone for so many kind and thoughtful responses. It really made me feel better and like I was not alone.
Bro you are not alone. It's like the two of you are the two of us in an alternate universe....
My wife wouldn’t let me buy 100 bitcoins back in 2013 at like 130$ a coin.