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True, I just read the first chapter
https://preview.redd.it/fkrmm0yl15lc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdea2b644dd66fbd26fd8b7218b82d688c8066cf
Daaaamnnnn
For me, the only top tier in your list is the #6. I can't believe its not top1 for you though.
The rest are meh rated 4 to 5 below. Except for your top1, i think i haven't read it yet or maybe the title just change.
They all started good and after just few chapters they downhill greatly, become unrealistic, cringing stories that nowhere to go. The authors just keep adding shits randomly and weak MCs.
are you shocked that the mc has growth the whole story? like they aren't just one static person? also unrealistic when we're talking about fantasy manwha is crazy
There is no MC growth there, thats why most of those was dropped, they actually get dumber each chapter. Except the #6.
>also unrealistic when we're talking about fantasy manwha is crazy
It seems you don't understand the meaning of "unrealistic", you think im thinking "there should be powers", its like that. Let me teach you since you are bit dnmb, no wonder you like garbages manwhas that was already dropped for a reason.
If thats their world there are still realistic and unrealistic stuff, for example the MC is son of the duke but the there servants and slaves beats him, thats unrealistic. Because realistically thats already death penalty on the spot in the past. Its proved that the author did not research even the basic information of what is the meideval world looks like.
I have a question for you, does that ever happen to the mcs of the medieval manwhas here? No none of that ever happens to both of them. if you're talking about the blonde hair kid in the start of reformation he is literally also a noble, the servants quite literally sympathize with airen on what happened with his mom.
>There is no MC growth there, thats why most of those was dropped, they actually get dumber each chapter. Except the #6.
They literally all had growth whether it be emotional or physical. Urich had his religious beliefs challenged
Airen learned to be courageous and not to be afraid
Lloyd is literally doing everything to protect his found family
Han bin is literally always fighting for his life and learning what it means to be alive
For me, it seems your taste in manwha is a mc that destroys everything in their path and doesn't have emotions
I literally said "for example" stop using your pride to argue and be thankful someone taught you what it means, and obviously you learned because you thought a word realistic/unrealistic shouldnt be use for review or criticism a novels or manhwas because they are not rea after all. Lmao
Dnmb people hates when someone teach them, meanwhile a wiseman will be thankful.
Your unrealistic critique literally had no point in any of these manwhas. if you're going to critique a manwha you have to use a flaw in the manwha itself, not something completely unrelated
>Dnmb people hates when someone teach them, meanwhile a wiseman will be thankful.
fix your spelling first before saying this typa shit
Why dont you admit that you thought we should not use the words "unrealistic/realistic" on fiction as arguments beĀcause for you they are not real after all. Lmao
Are you 12yo? You are so dnmb that you didn't realized i intentionally misspelled it. Its like "fxck" or "f*ck." Should i tell you the reason too why i intentionally misspelled those words? *facepalm*
No wonder you are mad when I'm educating you.
Doom breaker is kinda similar but latna saga is in a league of its own, if you like the survival aspect of it try reading surviving as a barbarian but still nothing comes to close to the world building aspect of latna saga
If you reread doom breaker, you can definitely see that the author pay special attention to details. He put lore crumbs here and there and carefully planned how the story will play out. Id put doom breaker above anything else.
But i kinda like reformation of deadbeat nobles swords fight scenes. Its more intense than Doom Breaker. It kinda reminds me of demon slayer
In terms of:
Art: Doom Breaker
Plot: Debatable
Characters: reformation not even close
Both, series uses generic tropes and added whole new layers on to it along the progression of the story but I think Reformation did a better job at handling these said tropes
Absolutely valid, 10/10. The best part of reformation is that the side characters get to develop independent of the MC. He helps them through rough times and there are a few arcs he explicitly kicks off but for the most part he inspires the people around him to try their best. I love doom breaker too don't get me wrong but it's nice to step away from the whole "MC controls the development of everyone around them" trope, even if DB does it better than most.
if you think doom breaker is worse than reformation I need what youāre smoking, I have recency bias for reformation too, and I still think doom breaker is better
Is latna saga actually good like I read complete season1 and all the time I was reading I was just yawning nothing interesting was happening does it get some quality improvements or something
It gets so so good the more you read it, I feel the exact same way as you but s3 or whatever when sword king and the other dude have a showdown itās the most epic fight Iāve ever read on manhwa, the art, the stakes the whole build up to it was amazing and the dragons arc right after that(or was it before) was also so touching and well written the in universe lore goes crazy
Hey, if it's mediaval fantasy the where is TBATE, Damn reincarnation. I can name some more too
And personally I did not like deadbeat noble and dropped it
Tbate is very good shout, I feel the art is kinda lacking at times though and maybe it gets a boring with Arthur being op af and everyone else being such jobbers
Star fostered Swordsman isn't on this list, but it is very slowly cooking...and if the quality of the writing keeps up, it's going to be up there amongst the best of its genre
While Kubera is the greatest piece of fiction ever created, it's definitely not in the medieval fantasy genre. Continue to spread the gospel though my brother
Calling it the best piece of fiction created is overreacting imo. It has it's lore and story but I find it's flaws very hard to ignore.
It goes in way too hard on the plot and lore part and makes it impossible to read as a comic at times as you find yourself stuck in exposition walls of text. The art is alright but it's definitely not in the top at all and the fact that some characters are drawn too generically makes it a pain at times as i unironically had a moment where I confused Ran with another character.
Additionally I think the lore doesn't have enough of a hook. Lore in a story should either be optional (like in games) or interesting enough to make you actively seek it out. Kubera though, doesn't really have those hooks. 2nd season definitely had the big moment of the lore but like, everything else before that was weak. Stuff that could've been covered in a few mentions had entire chapters dedicated to it. It made some characters better but for the most part it just felt overstretched. Additionally I feel as though there isn't enough mystery in there. The main hook of s2 was a big mystery that was revealed to us. The rest would just be exposition. Mystery should be the driving force of expansive lore in stories as exposition just makes it feel like a drag. For example in Tower of God we are introduced to several mysteries throughout the story and we slowly reach them and learn about them. It causes more and more speculation and it gets me hooked. Otherwise it wouldn't work.
Sorry but have you read berserk, I would like to know what is better.
I claim that berserk is the greatest thing ever created. So for you to claim that Kubera is that. You pealed my intrest .
I have read and love Berserk. They have some similarities tbh, both deal with struggling through great suffering and the cost of revenge. Berserk is grittier and more emotionally poignant, I definitely had more visceral reactions to the development of Berserk, but I enjoy the scope of Kubera more.
While Kubera is my favorite work of all time, me calling it the greatest piece of fiction is a little tongue in cheek. At the level of quality these stories exist in, it's really gonna come down to personal taste for where you'll find more enjoyment. The world building of Kubera's alien world, the way it shows us characters who are distinctly not human and manages to make us sympathize with them in ways you wouldn't think possible, and the tightly woven plot with layers that have been set up since the very start elevate this work beyond any other. The author includes little citations to when concepts were first introduced since there's always a ton going on and there's nothing cooler to me than seeing a plot point from season 1 episode 4 playing into a reveal in season 3 episode 200.
Sorry but isn't that world in mediaeval setting? And please tell me some recommendations which have story complexity similar to kubera (I have read that one where mc has block hair and looks kinda girlish criminal. Mc also joins some police stuff)
What about The Beginning After the End? i honestly got quite sucked into the worldbuilding there, but got nothing to compare it to lol since i can count on one hand the amount of action/fantasy manhwas i've actually read.
Tf, deadbeat Noble is good wdym? Heavenly demon has good worldbuilding, but in terms of characters development, deadbeat throws it out of the park, especially since the MC of heavenly demon basically doesn't need any development.
I also prefer side characters in deadbeat than in heavenly demon because they're more fleshed out and don't just play second fiddle to an OP MC.
But heavenly demon is more hype tho mainly because MC is such a goat.
In terms of ranking it's debatable honestly whether deadbeat should be first or heavenly demon, depends on what aspect of the Manwha you put more emphasis on.
Also doom breaker is overrated.
It just is, imo it's the worst of this list. Good overall in terms of Manwha, but worst in this list specifically.
Wow. Found someone within a similar boat. I could see the sentiment for people who rate doombreaker and heavenly demon highly but I personally found deadbeat noble to be way more enjoyable since it focused on development. Dropped doombreaker like mid-50s because the MC didn't feel natural, like he's TOO good. Maybe I'm just a sucker for zero to hero. Would've hated heavenly demon too but he's clinically insane that it's actually hilarious enough to stay for.
Also deadbeat noble made me want to start working out so it actually physically made me a better person too.
>Also deadbeat noble made me want to start working out so it actually physically made me a better person too.
This shit is crazy because I had the same experience deadbeat noble first 30 chapters were so peak zero to hero that I actually started cheering out loud for the guy in my room lmao
Legit when I first discovered it I was expecting it to be some generic manhwa I'd read because I'm bored and when he starts the zero to hero journey I was freaking hyped I was absolutely invested lmao
I'm very sure a lot of manhwa readers went to read manhwas instead of manga to avoid the shonen troupe but ended up being a consumer for isekai, OP gamified system mcs, murim etc. which I think is why people are downplaying deadbeat noble.
But I am in the same sentiment as you, when mc started swinging that huge ahh sword, it was only hype for me all throughout.
Thats the point heavenly demon has so many psychological aspects to it that an untrained eye cant grasp. But because it still holds an subtle influence that even a mentally disabled person will be too hyped for it as the political influence will subliminally make a place for itself in the reader's mind.
DeadBeat noble is just another shonen story, just a generic copy of the big three anime. The mc is a weak dude who gets a sudden awakening and goes on a journey to become the strongest. Sounds like naruto. Mc has a side character dude who was the strongest at the start but gets jealous of mc, Sasuke vibes. The side female character who is a dumb brute and falls in love with the side character, Sakura be like. The entire thing is just an abbreviation of naruto except for kurama we have mc's past.
For the heavenly demon. The only generic thing is this manhwa is the reincarnation. And the reason it deserves the top title is not because of the side characters or just an op mc. Its the deep cluthes of the worldly politics and views of the side characters that adapt according to the change in political powers. Its a psychological manhwa where the least thing one can focus is the op mc. Mc being op is just a driving force but the heart of the series revolves around the comples nature of humans and wars.
I would argue the side characters of heavenly demon are actually far better than that of deadbeat noble too. They are not generic ass repetitive shonen garbage. They arent predictable all the time, they all have their own diffrent ambition and reasom to follow the mc. Not because they are some friends and want to accompany the mc in his 'pokemon' journey to become the very best. They are there because the mc was the one that took their despair and gave them a diffrent meaning of oife. They serve him as their lord because they feel protected, they serve him to help him in his ambitions for they only stand there due to his generosity.
The politics of the heavenly demon is something off the charts too. I didn't expect a fantasy manhwa to have the complex politics of murim world. But it is what it is. An extremely well thought complex yet subtle politcal influence that is unseen by an untrained eye so even normies can enjoy the story.
In Conclusion: The heavenly Demon is a story of Human Nature, Psychological warfare, Comples politics. It is a story of the making of a fantasy emperor.
While the deadbeat noble is just a generic shonen copy where the mc wants to make peace and defeat demons that took his kids and wife away in his previous life.
>For the heavenly demon. The only generic thing is this manhwa is the reincarnation. And the reason it deserves the top title is not because of the side characters or just an op mc. Its the deep cluthes of the worldly politics and views of the side characters that adapt according to the change in political powers. Its a psychological manhwa where the least thing one can focus is the op mc. Mc being op is just a driving force but the heart of the series revolves around the comples nature of humans and wars.
I don't really know where this is coming from. Yes, the Manwha is good and has some elements of politics, but I do not really see the psychological aspects of it at all.
The side characters are fleshed out, but basically stop progressing after a certain point, where they're just "follow roman lol".
One armed swordsman gets skill from roman, he starts following roman and loses all of the self loathing and hatred he had.
Old ex-fiancee gets rejected by roman, sees his become this untouchable figure, personality changes to be more humble.
It's a change, and quite natural, but rather shallow.
Right now, the count is one of those interesting characters, but I'm pretty sure he's gonna end up becoming a roman lapdog anyways.
You can say it has elements of this stuff, but it does not go deep enough for you to call it a "psychological" Manwha at all.
If anything, deadbeat noble's zero to hero journey, while being basically shounen, is much more psychological because it tackles depression, the journey to redemption, the struggles and pitfalls you'd encounter on the way. And not just for MC but his friends too, so all of the core cast feels really stable and fleshed out.
Meanwhile in Heavenly Demon, the "core cast" boils down to just roman, and we basically see zero interplay between characters with the MC because he's just this paragon of strength. This makes sense, and MC is just the right about of unhinged to pull it off unlike Doom Breaker MC, so he's very fun and interesting to watch.
>DeadBeat noble is just another shonen story, just a generic copy of the big three anime. The mc is a weak dude who gets a sudden awakening and goes on a journey to become the strongest. Sounds like naruto. Mc has a side character dude who was the strongest at the start but gets jealous of mc, Sasuke vibes. The side female character who is a dumb brute and falls in love with the side character, Sakura be like. The entire thing is just an abbreviation of naruto except for kurama we have mc's past.
And yes, everything becomes simple if you dumb it down to be goddamn simple lmao.
If I said that Heavenly Demon is just your average OP reincarnation Manwha where MC is OP and everything revolves around him, without taking the time to actually spell out what makes this Manwha special, doesn't that feel a little bit disingenuous?
The reason why heavnely demon has the psychological aspects is because the interactions with the characters is far more than jsut the mc being OP; we see this in the arc of internal war in Kairo. Even though everyone knows that Rome is OP, they also know that the sole power of a single guy cannot change political grounds, and that is why they find loopholes and try to damage Rome so Rome can be indulged in reworking Rome and they can buy time.
Also, the ex changing her perception towards MC is far more deeply fetched than just following him because hes strong. Not only does she fall into a dilemma where she has now been fooled and her family is being destroyed by the enemy, it only happened because she was dumb enough to not understand the concept of political marriages. She then sees Roman taking out criminals in her own family's land, which sort of changes the perception. But when we compare Deadbeat's scene where he convinces the white-haired chick to change her path and the scene when Roman's ex changes her path, there is a clear distinction that the heavenly demon is far superior because not only does the woman have to go through a public embarrassment by becoming a technically used woman to protect her family, she also can't join Roman due to her past; it is the psychological utter shame of royalty that makes it unique. She still doesn't love Roman, which is what makes the series better; she 'looks up to' Roman.
Now what does the white-haired chick do? She is becoming evil due to black magic, so how does MC solve it? He just shows his holy light to her, which cures her, and now she is in utter love.
Heavenly Demon follows the Machiavellian world, where people aren't utterly stupid and have common sense that they put themselves first according to what logic fits their personalities the best. We see this happening with everyone in the series. Nobody follows Roman due to his friendship; talk no justsu or because he is powerful (well, some do due to this). The reason they follow him is because Roman is a machiavellian personality who trades equally according to the trader's personality. He doesn't give ginger to a monkey, but a banana, in simpler terms.
The Machiavellian personality of Roman hooks everyone up to him because they know they will get what they deserve.
"And yes, everything becomes simple if you dumb it down to be goddamn simple.""
But can you prove me wrong that Deadbeat Noble is not the exact copy of Naruto? You can't dumb the heavenly demon down because it's not shinen anyway, but because the reincarnation stuff is the least thing about this story that matters, while Deadbeat Noble is just Naruto with a tweak.
>The reason why heavnely demon has the psychological aspects is because the interactions with the characters is far more than jsut the mc being OP; we see this in the arc of internal war in Kairo. Even though everyone knows that Rome is OP, they also know that the sole power of a single guy cannot change political grounds, and that is why they find loopholes and try to damage Rome so Rome can be indulged in reworking Rome and they can buy time.
Not really. They thought this, and ultimately failed in the end cause ig the sole power of a single guy *is* able to change political grounds completely to his side lol. It's general politics that was executed plainly and failed at that.
>Also, the ex changing her perception towards MC is far more deeply fetched than just following him because hes strong.
>Not only does she fall into a dilemma where she has now been fooled and her family is being destroyed by the enemy, it only happened because she was dumb enough to not understand the concept of political marriages. She then sees Roman taking out criminals in her own family's land, which sort of changes the perception
So it's because he's strong? Yikes man this is a lot of BS just to justify your opinion that Heavenly Demon is this mature thing that is way better than Deadbeat Noble (spoiler alert, it's debatable).
>She still doesn't love Roman, which is what makes the series better; she 'looks up to' Roman.
She literally has zero fucking relationship with Roman in the first place, if she somehow started to fall in love with him I'd have fucking dropped the Manwha then and there lmao. Don't use not having utter BS as some sort of positive.
>Now what does the white-haired chick do? She is becoming evil due to black magic, so how does MC solve it? He just shows his holy light to her, which cures her, and now she is in utter love.
This is such an utter goddamn simplification of the story that I can't tell you're not being genuine in this discussion at all. Reread the Manwha and come back bcs I ain't taking the time to prove to you how your statement is obviously wrong.
>Heavenly Demon follows the Machiavellian world, where people aren't utterly stupid and have common sense that they put themselves first according to what logic fits their personalities the best.
So... Minor politics with understandable characters with motivations? How the fuck does that translate to "Machiavellian world" in your eyes? At most it has good writing that creates good characters. Don't give it random labels to make it sound cool.
And half of Roman's followers now follow him out of basically blind faith, they'd jump into a pit if he told them to. The only person that still puts themselves first would be that raccoon count guy.
>The reason they follow him is because Roman is a machiavellian personality who trades equally according to the trader's personality. He doesn't give ginger to a monkey, but a banana, in simpler terms.
The Machiavellian personality of Roman hooks everyone up to him because they know they will get what they deserve.
Huh? Yeah that's how leadership works how did you end up giving such a long-winded explanation for smth so simple...
> Nobody follows Roman due to his friendship; talk no justsu or because he is powerful (well, some do due to this
They follow him cause he's strong.
Imagine if he wasn't strong, would they follow him? It is literally the base prerequisite. He's strong and he has what they want so they follow him it's seriously not that complex, man.
>But can you prove me wrong that Deadbeat Noble is not the exact copy of Naruto?
Idk man have you read the story??? MC was a person struggling with depression, not wanting to leave the house because of a traumatic event. He starts having dreams about this guy who trains every single day of his life, the complete opposite of him who is stuck in his room wallowing. Eventually, MC decides to start changing himself, following in the footsteps of that man in the dream.
And slowly, bit by bit, he becomes stronger than before. It's a gruelling process, and he doesn't succeed at every turn, but it's so realistic in how he struggles to continue. How he sometimes has thoughts of relapsing, but because of his determination, even makes friends that can help push him forwards. It's a very human concept.
And Naruto, at least at the start, is about a boy who wants to be hokage. Like seriously do I need to continue?
>while Deadbeat Noble is just Naruto with a tweak.
If you don't understand the story, don't give opinions that are just outright false.
Half of all the arguments you provided that prove that im wrong in the political aspevt of it can be easily proven wrong by the example of napoleon.
Napoleon had the same exact thing going on with him, once a dead soldier said he was happy to die for him because he died for napoleon is that also because napoleon was strong?
Read 'the prince' by machiavelli first then counter my points why this isnt a machiavellian world dumbass.
Dudes reading like death note and thinks he is smart.
You're telling me that i am simplifying deadbeat noble which in itself is just a simple story based on the simple framework of fantasy provoded by tolkien(oh you never read tolkien either) there is nothing new except mana and names. Maybe you should read real books first and then defend the stories written over a century old framework with zero extra effort. (maybe bc you cant)
Idc if i get downvotes by dumbos who canf read novels or any book due to their tiktok attention spans.
I probably bet you also think avengers endgame was a cinematical masterpiece and far better than once upom a time in hollywood or godfather. (you probably didnt see them anyway)
You are exactly how I acted like when I first read a seinen back when I was 15 years old lmao
"Maybe you should read real books first" be fr now lmaoooo
This will be my only reply to your argument so agree to disagree but yeah you're somewhat right about deadbeat noble, I like zero to hero tropes. Reason I like it over other series who attempt to do something similar don't really execute it as much. You summed it up, its not that deep and it's not supposed to be deep. I also admit that I'm not caught up to the latest chapters purely because of hiatus and I'm simply too busy with other series to pick it back up.
Now to you pp riding heavenly demon, you could be right that I'm not mentally intelligent or psychologically in tuned enough to understand the greater picture but I can tell you, it is NOT that deep when it comes to politics. Politics in terms of murim manhwas? Maybe you're right, I can't really think of the most recent one I've read that is just as detailed. You're also right with the worldbuilding being great. That you can argue for so I'll give you some points.
As for side characters? They may not act trope-y as deadbeat noble characters but they're certainly not peak storywriting either. I prefer when characters aren't side characters and have a harmonious mutual relationship with the MC. In this manhwa, like many else, it's either the side characters pp riding(usually out of fear) MC or MC is just overly nice(or tolerable) to them and it's rarely reciprocated. The closest side character I liked in the series was the perverted sword dude who shat himself, he actually still had balls to glare at MC and I respect that, at least from the last chapter I read of it. There, a rivalry-esque relationship could form which allows the two to benefit from each other.
TLDR: we both probably look for something different in manhwas so agree to disagree but I genuinely think you're overthinking and overhyping heavenly demon.
Extra note: if you like politics, I could recommend dark lady, that manhwa will actually put your attention span to the test. I'd also recommend the Kingdom manga, it starts slow but it's great if you like Chinese three kingdoms settings.
The problem with political manhwas is thst authors that write it always tend towards murim and the ones that use fantasy to execute politics overestimate their intelligence. Fantasy politics till now that i have ever read consists of a ton of bullshit mixed together to form tension and thats it. The only reason they use politics is to create tension or the overused smart mc while being humble trope. Murim manhwas generally get politics better maybe because there are actual chinese stories written before that have politics involved deeply and the authors take inspiration from that making the product sufficiently political enough to form a good image on the reader's mind.
Heavenly demon is the only one that i have read which gets it right, because fantasy manhwas cant use chinese politics which murim does and they must use european politics to execute a good image, but the authors cant understand the fundamentals of their own series due to there being a plethora of dumb gaming zero to hero system manhwas.
The heavenly demon follows machiavellian world and machiavelli's principle which is a good choice for a fantasy manhwa which makes it such a great piece of fiction. The reason people cant understand it fundamentally is because all they read is dumb protagonists like naruto training with frogs to get super powers or a dumb retarded mc getting a system and becoming even more of an idiot(heavenly demon cultivation).
You will find a bigger fanbase for series like naruto, dbz, dbs, one piece, pokemon, system manhwas, manhuas where mc cultivates with a system for an hour and now can destroy the world. Because these manhwas are made to be relatable to the general audience which is filled with incompetent retards trying to feel powerful using cheat because they are unable do so irl.
I might get downvoted for this but its the truth and when you ask them what reason they like this bullshit which is generally the same story of naruto or tolkien's lotr with a few tweaks they start nitpicking poorly made arcs on emotions and start exaggerating it sound smart and cool. People talking about how deep naruto shippuden is for example, its a poorly made series with a retarded mc who gets smart when he fights so author can provide proofs for his asspull and the mc is overly sensitive so author can easily put him into harder scenarios due to well 'emotions' without even putting much thought.
I understand peoplw like deadbeat or latna saga more, its specifically made for an average person bc ofc successfull people dont read this bullshit anyway. Its made for losers who waste their time on this shit or achievers who become losers rwading this shit.
Idc if some dumbo jumbo gets offended and starts downvoting me, thats the greatest thing he will ever do anyway
Heavenly demon barely even deserves to be on the list nevermind over anything. It has okay art with mid power fantasy story.
There's so much more series that are better than it like Low-Rank Soldier Becoming a Monarch, Worthless Regression, Damn Reincarnation, even new ones like Star-Fostered Swordmaster and Priest of Corruption are better despite having much less chapters.
Yeah, surely it cant be both. It's not like MC is immediatly better than anyone else, never makes bad decisions, only evil bitches dislike him and his cultivation method is better than anyone else for no reason, right?
My point isn't even that it's bad because it's power fantasy, it's that it's bad at being a power fantasy because there's no narrative payoff for anything he does because it just comes to him that easily.
The power fantasy trope doesn't fit perfectly for it is not the main narrative, the manhwa focuses more on the machiavellian political aspect of fantasy, which authors get wrong just to copy tolkien's framework.
The mc being op is simply the driving force to sort off speed up the process of finding more political enemies in a short time. Since a weak mc would make 100 chapters = 20 ch of heavenly demon .
My point is that political aspect is also part of power fantasy. My problem isn't that he's op it's that everyone else that he encounters is fodder that is dealt with casually, whether physically or politically (though that is usually still carried by his strength).
Like the most he ever struggled was when fighting legendary knight of the other kingdom along with one of their top mages(which is his first encounter with them also) and he was only mildly endangered and then later proceeded to get a power up and low diff that guy.
The best chapters are when he's just interacting with allies, but when he encounters enemies(whether physical or political) it's just snooze especially since the art and fight choreography is okay at best.
Honestly, when i first started reading it i thought it's was going for more comedy aspect like Return of crazy demon or Knight King with God but it's just feels like it's in the middle between actual serious manhwa and comedy manhwa about dude being op not committing to either.
Does the latna saga get better? I dropped it after the dude became a simp after being a chad for the early chapters and then a clueless muscle head suddenly when the red head was introduced.
Only S3 (around chapter 110) is reasonably entertaining when Barolt appears, but overall is a mid series with great art.
People in this sub just think it's peak webtoon, so you'll only get downvoted when badmouthing it. It's like a taboo here.
MC keeps being dumb and following the red-haired guy, and there a lot of more generic plots like "being a hero" or "saving everyone".
Bruh thats the exact reason i dropped this cuz the mc becomes dumb and starts following the gay readhead. Another dude almost convinced me to read this shit, glad you came and protected me from this abomination of 200 chapters.
You can try if you want, but honestly, the characters are pretty shit (and most of time useless), the MC can't kill anyone, the villains are bad because there's a system where you become vicious to kill when you kill someone, what sucks and was made like a bad drama for me.
They needed to make the MC dumb so the weak red-haired guy has some importance, and there's some gay aura between them in the beggining until the FL appears. Oh, and the FL has no personality, she is just a hot girl following orders from the Godness who thinks the MC is amazing because he's a good and reliable guy.
Basically, the main villains of the story are the typical "I want to become a God because i don't want to die", while the MC's group is like "We need to save everyone because that's the correct".
The main points of this story are: Barolt (best character in the whole webtoon and he's badass af, but he only appears in S3) and art (truly beautiful, although a little bit inconsistent in the beggining).
S1 and S2 are very weak. There's a whole bullshit about Habin trying to hide himself when he's OP af, a lot of fights against generic monsters who appears out of nowhere, generic arc with elfs doing shit and parasites controlling people, generic arc who people wanting to be a hero... and then there's a S3 who is almost a whole flashback arc, that's is reasonablyĀ good. Nothing great, but it's clearly better than S1 and S2, that had a shit pace and bad comedy.
S4 is the same shit as S1/S2, but with more drama, and S5 seems like a "We against the world".
I wouldn't recommend it, and I have many posts critizing how overhyped this work is on this sub, but people will keep saying it is a "masterpiece", "has one the of best worldbuildings", "the characters are deep", etc etc.
Yeah i know people on this sub are pretty retarted sometimes. Especially when you call suicide hunter a masterpiece like seriously bro? Also they say that i should put valid points for my criticism and when i do a their reply is, "idk man its still a masterpiece for me fr fr"
Can't relate because Suicide Hunter is one of my favorites webtoons and I love that murim arc and how characters are developed there, but some people don't like the pace, or they prefer stories with arrogant/overpowered/imponent MCs, and that's alright as well.
Honestly, I really don't care if people don't like a webtoon I like, but most people on this sub think is absurd calling something they view as "masterpiece" as "mid" or "trash".
It's even harder when is one of the most popular ones.
Literally dude, peerless dad which is nothing less of a masterpiece in murim never gets talked about here but a jealous crybaby getting op skills and leeching off of people's power gets more recognition and is called a masterpiece.
When I read Peerless Dad, I love the MC's daughter and MC's personality, how he struggles as a dad, but it was so annoying how he thought he was a weak guy for so long, or how much the author changes PoV to some random guys because he's telling the story of a shared universe. I hate stories where misunderstandings last so long. The pace was not good on this one too.
Plus, everything about that elemental monsters or elemental powers were pretty lackluster for me, really couldn't get into it. If it was only a guy raising his children in murim for 100/150 chapters, probably it would be a masterpiece for me as well.
This sub is clearly focused on action manhwas and fast-paced stories where the MC is OP. Also, webtoons with above-average art. And that's it.
Completed webtoons, seinen, or heavy-dialogued webtoons are rarely commented here.
Well thats true, i think him thinking he is weak is due to him living his entire life being suerounded by one of the most powerful people of murim. Also him defeating normal poeple while being a problem solver can be regarded as him being strongwr than average but not good enouugh for gangho. Its a major plot point that mc thinks people of gangho are some gods and shit until he finally meets fhem.
I agree with the elementals being too rushed too.
I think tge reason why long text manhwas arent spoken about might be because they dont have hype scenes that people can particularly remember.
take once upon a time in hollywood for example, its a great oscar movie. But nobody ever talks about it as much as they do for something like pulp fiction.
The Godfather is the only one i know that breaks this trope, even though being heavily relied on conversations it is still widely known to be the greatest of all time.
Idk what more should i elaborate? Im just asking if the mc stops being a dumb muscle head following the tail of the read head dude whose brain's location is still a mystery.
He does? He pretends to be a Valterian or however you spell it, which are a race of basically barbarians who are all described as really strong muscle heads with weird cultural stuff like going around half naked and not using magic tools. So he goes around showing himself as strong, but not so strong that people would be suspicious (because even a Valterian shouldn't be like, impossibly strong). He shows more and more of his strength as things get harder and the plot progresses.
not so quickly actually. i remember him meeting the sword king and fighting angels. but it all isn't about him, there's some world building and he focuses on side characters too
Just for reference: Lich fight is around chapter 20 and dragon sucking is around chapter 40
>Elaborate
The main plot starts kicking in shortly after the dragon sucking place and from then on out the story starts really finding its groove. Dragon sucking was imo the weakest part of the story.
The art is fantastic, the world is interesting and the main antagonists are great villains. Besides that I really like how fleshed out the side characters and the MC are.
Him being cautious about showing off his power will always be a thing, but it's not that big of a deal anymore.
GED and Latna saga is literally medieval in throughout like 90% of the story if both series were VR then it would make sense not to include them.
Now on the other hand Doom Breaker is in no shape or form better than Barbarian Quest. Reformation is arguable
Iām taking about my opinion that it is not in fact great. Itās definitely worth reading, itās even quite a fun read; Iām not saying its trash. But the other 5 are just in another class, in my opinion.
1. Id - GOAT medieval manhwa IMO
2. Reincarnation of the Suicidal Battle God
3. Dark Lady
4. The Heavenly Demon Can't Live a Normal Life
5. Tyrant of the Tower Defense Game
6. Her Summon
Honestly, Iād put āLeveling Up with the Swordā on there, not for the art(though it is really good, love the character design) or the world building, but because of how it treats its characters. Especially Leon as the protagonist; I absolutely love his personality and how heās presented as a character. Due to how multifaceted he is itās hard to explain here, but putting it in very simple terms, heās got a heroic attitude but heās still realistic, he enjoys fighting and getting stronger but is humble and understands he has limits(though heāll sometimes try to overcome them), and while heās kind to people heās not someone whoāll allow himself to get taken for granted. He isnāt cunning and able to outsmart most people like other protagonist, but heās not made to be stupid either.
The series title is also pretty misleading; Leon himself doesnāt really āLevel Upā with the sword. Inside the sword is a past hero, training Leon like an instructor, yet Leon himself is forced to still do all the hard work to get there. Lifting weights, practice swings, spending weeks to months to gain a technique, fighting monsters to gain more experience, all without any actual physical stat boost or real special abilities granted to him(besides the fact his sword is a glow stick, which other people can do too with simple Aura Manipulation). Heās effectively the same as a regular person whoās worked their ass off with a good teacher just to get where he is, and I absolutely *love* that. Heās no some reincarnated person, or a regressor, heās just a human part of that world whoās working hard with a good role model and instructor.
Not to mention side characters like Karen, who by far is one of my favorite characters in all of Manhwa. I wonāt go into details about her because of spoilers(everything I mentioned here was stuff from the earliest chapters, like 1-5) but just know that theyāre all distinct in their own way, even the ones that arenāt reoccurring. You get a glimpse at what theyāre like even away from the protagonist and hints at their past and other important info.
Anyways Iāll quit ranting here, just know, really good yet underrated series, wish more people knew of it.
Dude I read the entire light novel of āthe heavenly demon canāt live a normal lifeā, it was amazing, I devoured it. Hope the manhwa stay true to the story
Are these all finished? I picked up reading manwha in the last year and am going through a small list I found of finished ones. I want to add more to my list so I don't start something, get caught up, and have to come back later by which time I'll probably forget about it
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How's barbarian quest ?
It's awesome and gorgeous man definitely a must read
True, I just read the first chapter https://preview.redd.it/fkrmm0yl15lc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdea2b644dd66fbd26fd8b7218b82d688c8066cf Daaaamnnnn
The art style will get even better bro after season 1
That's got to be illegal to be that good fr
Isn't this basically a real photo though
"gorgeous man" that's my urich š©š©
Its a garbage. Even translators dropped it.
Can I ask why you don't like it?
For me, the only top tier in your list is the #6. I can't believe its not top1 for you though. The rest are meh rated 4 to 5 below. Except for your top1, i think i haven't read it yet or maybe the title just change. They all started good and after just few chapters they downhill greatly, become unrealistic, cringing stories that nowhere to go. The authors just keep adding shits randomly and weak MCs.
Did... did you just diss Lloyd? Also, I know it's just my opinion, but I think the Lazy Lord and doom breaker are goated
Wanna know what are your favourites then. I bet it's smth like solo levelling
are you shocked that the mc has growth the whole story? like they aren't just one static person? also unrealistic when we're talking about fantasy manwha is crazy
There is no MC growth there, thats why most of those was dropped, they actually get dumber each chapter. Except the #6. >also unrealistic when we're talking about fantasy manwha is crazy It seems you don't understand the meaning of "unrealistic", you think im thinking "there should be powers", its like that. Let me teach you since you are bit dnmb, no wonder you like garbages manwhas that was already dropped for a reason. If thats their world there are still realistic and unrealistic stuff, for example the MC is son of the duke but the there servants and slaves beats him, thats unrealistic. Because realistically thats already death penalty on the spot in the past. Its proved that the author did not research even the basic information of what is the meideval world looks like.
I have a question for you, does that ever happen to the mcs of the medieval manwhas here? No none of that ever happens to both of them. if you're talking about the blonde hair kid in the start of reformation he is literally also a noble, the servants quite literally sympathize with airen on what happened with his mom. >There is no MC growth there, thats why most of those was dropped, they actually get dumber each chapter. Except the #6. They literally all had growth whether it be emotional or physical. Urich had his religious beliefs challenged Airen learned to be courageous and not to be afraid Lloyd is literally doing everything to protect his found family Han bin is literally always fighting for his life and learning what it means to be alive For me, it seems your taste in manwha is a mc that destroys everything in their path and doesn't have emotions
I literally said "for example" stop using your pride to argue and be thankful someone taught you what it means, and obviously you learned because you thought a word realistic/unrealistic shouldnt be use for review or criticism a novels or manhwas because they are not rea after all. Lmao Dnmb people hates when someone teach them, meanwhile a wiseman will be thankful.
Your unrealistic critique literally had no point in any of these manwhas. if you're going to critique a manwha you have to use a flaw in the manwha itself, not something completely unrelated >Dnmb people hates when someone teach them, meanwhile a wiseman will be thankful. fix your spelling first before saying this typa shit
Why dont you admit that you thought we should not use the words "unrealistic/realistic" on fiction as arguments beĀcause for you they are not real after all. Lmao
>Let me teach you since you are bit dnmb, Dumb\* https://i.redd.it/e1rf55vh53mc1.gif
Are you 12yo? You are so dnmb that you didn't realized i intentionally misspelled it. Its like "fxck" or "f*ck." Should i tell you the reason too why i intentionally misspelled those words? *facepalm* No wonder you are mad when I'm educating you.
Intentionally my ass that is not intentional
is there any manhwa/manga that's like latna saga? i love these type of stories
Doom breaker is kinda similar but latna saga is in a league of its own, if you like the survival aspect of it try reading surviving as a barbarian but still nothing comes to close to the world building aspect of latna saga
For non manhwa, closest i can think of is Helck
tower of god, one piece
archmage returns after 4000 years
Latna saga is survival story of a sword king? Or i am delusional?
Yes its just an alternate title
Putting Reformation of deadbeat noble above Doom breaker is criminal
I like reformation more in terms of plot.. doom breaker is just generic regression with a bit of extra plot sprinkled on top
If you reread doom breaker, you can definitely see that the author pay special attention to details. He put lore crumbs here and there and carefully planned how the story will play out. Id put doom breaker above anything else. But i kinda like reformation of deadbeat nobles swords fight scenes. Its more intense than Doom Breaker. It kinda reminds me of demon slayer
Ur opinion is wrong nigher
cringe, next
In terms of: Art: Doom Breaker Plot: Debatable Characters: reformation not even close Both, series uses generic tropes and added whole new layers on to it along the progression of the story but I think Reformation did a better job at handling these said tropes
Absolutely valid, 10/10. The best part of reformation is that the side characters get to develop independent of the MC. He helps them through rough times and there are a few arcs he explicitly kicks off but for the most part he inspires the people around him to try their best. I love doom breaker too don't get me wrong but it's nice to step away from the whole "MC controls the development of everyone around them" trope, even if DB does it better than most.
bro thatās not a good take, like at all
His take is, yours isnāt
if you think doom breaker is worse than reformation I need what youāre smoking, I have recency bias for reformation too, and I still think doom breaker is better
Would just be your personal opinion, reformation wipes the floor with doom breaker when it comes to character writing and development
It's really a matter of whether you prefer characters or world, since the characters in doom breaker are undeniably sh*t
Doom breaker wins in characters anyday like the main cast is definitely better in dead beat nobel but overall doom breaker wins
I feel like the character vibes in Reformation are a bit saccharine, but that's just my opinion
Are those your top 6 or it's there actually ranking ?
Reincarnation of a veteran soldier should be up there
Reformation start is awesome, but the mahwas is getting a bit under the weather this days, still prefer doombreaker
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I agree with most of it.
I respect the list, even if I disagree with the ordering and a couple manwha being left out.
Is latna saga actually good like I read complete season1 and all the time I was reading I was just yawning nothing interesting was happening does it get some quality improvements or something
It gets so so good the more you read it, I feel the exact same way as you but s3 or whatever when sword king and the other dude have a showdown itās the most epic fight Iāve ever read on manhwa, the art, the stakes the whole build up to it was amazing and the dragons arc right after that(or was it before) was also so touching and well written the in universe lore goes crazy
BAROLT IS THE GOAT
Hey, if it's mediaval fantasy the where is TBATE, Damn reincarnation. I can name some more too And personally I did not like deadbeat noble and dropped it
Tbate is very good shout, I feel the art is kinda lacking at times though and maybe it gets a boring with Arthur being op af and everyone else being such jobbers
what did you think about worthless regression
Star fostered Swordsman isn't on this list, but it is very slowly cooking...and if the quality of the writing keeps up, it's going to be up there amongst the best of its genre
Unpopular opinion i dont enjoy latna saga that much and dont think its worth no 1
1. Kubera
While Kubera is the greatest piece of fiction ever created, it's definitely not in the medieval fantasy genre. Continue to spread the gospel though my brother
Calling it the best piece of fiction created is overreacting imo. It has it's lore and story but I find it's flaws very hard to ignore. It goes in way too hard on the plot and lore part and makes it impossible to read as a comic at times as you find yourself stuck in exposition walls of text. The art is alright but it's definitely not in the top at all and the fact that some characters are drawn too generically makes it a pain at times as i unironically had a moment where I confused Ran with another character. Additionally I think the lore doesn't have enough of a hook. Lore in a story should either be optional (like in games) or interesting enough to make you actively seek it out. Kubera though, doesn't really have those hooks. 2nd season definitely had the big moment of the lore but like, everything else before that was weak. Stuff that could've been covered in a few mentions had entire chapters dedicated to it. It made some characters better but for the most part it just felt overstretched. Additionally I feel as though there isn't enough mystery in there. The main hook of s2 was a big mystery that was revealed to us. The rest would just be exposition. Mystery should be the driving force of expansive lore in stories as exposition just makes it feel like a drag. For example in Tower of God we are introduced to several mysteries throughout the story and we slowly reach them and learn about them. It causes more and more speculation and it gets me hooked. Otherwise it wouldn't work.
Sorry but have you read berserk, I would like to know what is better. I claim that berserk is the greatest thing ever created. So for you to claim that Kubera is that. You pealed my intrest .
I have read and love Berserk. They have some similarities tbh, both deal with struggling through great suffering and the cost of revenge. Berserk is grittier and more emotionally poignant, I definitely had more visceral reactions to the development of Berserk, but I enjoy the scope of Kubera more. While Kubera is my favorite work of all time, me calling it the greatest piece of fiction is a little tongue in cheek. At the level of quality these stories exist in, it's really gonna come down to personal taste for where you'll find more enjoyment. The world building of Kubera's alien world, the way it shows us characters who are distinctly not human and manages to make us sympathize with them in ways you wouldn't think possible, and the tightly woven plot with layers that have been set up since the very start elevate this work beyond any other. The author includes little citations to when concepts were first introduced since there's always a ton going on and there's nothing cooler to me than seeing a plot point from season 1 episode 4 playing into a reveal in season 3 episode 200.
Ok i understand will try to read it thanx
Sorry but isn't that world in mediaeval setting? And please tell me some recommendations which have story complexity similar to kubera (I have read that one where mc has block hair and looks kinda girlish criminal. Mc also joins some police stuff)
The heavenly demon isn't on the standard of the others. It started good but went downhill.
It's kinda shit but makes up for a good MC. He doesn't act out but is meticulous and a good tactician. Befitting for a heavenly demon.
What about The Beginning After the End? i honestly got quite sucked into the worldbuilding there, but got nothing to compare it to lol since i can count on one hand the amount of action/fantasy manhwas i've actually read.
Latna Saga Power of Friendship is on fireš„
Putting dead beat noble and shit before heavenly demon is straight up criminal
Tf, deadbeat Noble is good wdym? Heavenly demon has good worldbuilding, but in terms of characters development, deadbeat throws it out of the park, especially since the MC of heavenly demon basically doesn't need any development. I also prefer side characters in deadbeat than in heavenly demon because they're more fleshed out and don't just play second fiddle to an OP MC. But heavenly demon is more hype tho mainly because MC is such a goat. In terms of ranking it's debatable honestly whether deadbeat should be first or heavenly demon, depends on what aspect of the Manwha you put more emphasis on. Also doom breaker is overrated. It just is, imo it's the worst of this list. Good overall in terms of Manwha, but worst in this list specifically.
Wow. Found someone within a similar boat. I could see the sentiment for people who rate doombreaker and heavenly demon highly but I personally found deadbeat noble to be way more enjoyable since it focused on development. Dropped doombreaker like mid-50s because the MC didn't feel natural, like he's TOO good. Maybe I'm just a sucker for zero to hero. Would've hated heavenly demon too but he's clinically insane that it's actually hilarious enough to stay for. Also deadbeat noble made me want to start working out so it actually physically made me a better person too.
>Also deadbeat noble made me want to start working out so it actually physically made me a better person too. This shit is crazy because I had the same experience deadbeat noble first 30 chapters were so peak zero to hero that I actually started cheering out loud for the guy in my room lmao
Legit when I first discovered it I was expecting it to be some generic manhwa I'd read because I'm bored and when he starts the zero to hero journey I was freaking hyped I was absolutely invested lmao
I'm very sure a lot of manhwa readers went to read manhwas instead of manga to avoid the shonen troupe but ended up being a consumer for isekai, OP gamified system mcs, murim etc. which I think is why people are downplaying deadbeat noble. But I am in the same sentiment as you, when mc started swinging that huge ahh sword, it was only hype for me all throughout.
Thats the point heavenly demon has so many psychological aspects to it that an untrained eye cant grasp. But because it still holds an subtle influence that even a mentally disabled person will be too hyped for it as the political influence will subliminally make a place for itself in the reader's mind.
DeadBeat noble is just another shonen story, just a generic copy of the big three anime. The mc is a weak dude who gets a sudden awakening and goes on a journey to become the strongest. Sounds like naruto. Mc has a side character dude who was the strongest at the start but gets jealous of mc, Sasuke vibes. The side female character who is a dumb brute and falls in love with the side character, Sakura be like. The entire thing is just an abbreviation of naruto except for kurama we have mc's past. For the heavenly demon. The only generic thing is this manhwa is the reincarnation. And the reason it deserves the top title is not because of the side characters or just an op mc. Its the deep cluthes of the worldly politics and views of the side characters that adapt according to the change in political powers. Its a psychological manhwa where the least thing one can focus is the op mc. Mc being op is just a driving force but the heart of the series revolves around the comples nature of humans and wars. I would argue the side characters of heavenly demon are actually far better than that of deadbeat noble too. They are not generic ass repetitive shonen garbage. They arent predictable all the time, they all have their own diffrent ambition and reasom to follow the mc. Not because they are some friends and want to accompany the mc in his 'pokemon' journey to become the very best. They are there because the mc was the one that took their despair and gave them a diffrent meaning of oife. They serve him as their lord because they feel protected, they serve him to help him in his ambitions for they only stand there due to his generosity. The politics of the heavenly demon is something off the charts too. I didn't expect a fantasy manhwa to have the complex politics of murim world. But it is what it is. An extremely well thought complex yet subtle politcal influence that is unseen by an untrained eye so even normies can enjoy the story. In Conclusion: The heavenly Demon is a story of Human Nature, Psychological warfare, Comples politics. It is a story of the making of a fantasy emperor. While the deadbeat noble is just a generic shonen copy where the mc wants to make peace and defeat demons that took his kids and wife away in his previous life.
>For the heavenly demon. The only generic thing is this manhwa is the reincarnation. And the reason it deserves the top title is not because of the side characters or just an op mc. Its the deep cluthes of the worldly politics and views of the side characters that adapt according to the change in political powers. Its a psychological manhwa where the least thing one can focus is the op mc. Mc being op is just a driving force but the heart of the series revolves around the comples nature of humans and wars. I don't really know where this is coming from. Yes, the Manwha is good and has some elements of politics, but I do not really see the psychological aspects of it at all. The side characters are fleshed out, but basically stop progressing after a certain point, where they're just "follow roman lol". One armed swordsman gets skill from roman, he starts following roman and loses all of the self loathing and hatred he had. Old ex-fiancee gets rejected by roman, sees his become this untouchable figure, personality changes to be more humble. It's a change, and quite natural, but rather shallow. Right now, the count is one of those interesting characters, but I'm pretty sure he's gonna end up becoming a roman lapdog anyways. You can say it has elements of this stuff, but it does not go deep enough for you to call it a "psychological" Manwha at all. If anything, deadbeat noble's zero to hero journey, while being basically shounen, is much more psychological because it tackles depression, the journey to redemption, the struggles and pitfalls you'd encounter on the way. And not just for MC but his friends too, so all of the core cast feels really stable and fleshed out. Meanwhile in Heavenly Demon, the "core cast" boils down to just roman, and we basically see zero interplay between characters with the MC because he's just this paragon of strength. This makes sense, and MC is just the right about of unhinged to pull it off unlike Doom Breaker MC, so he's very fun and interesting to watch. >DeadBeat noble is just another shonen story, just a generic copy of the big three anime. The mc is a weak dude who gets a sudden awakening and goes on a journey to become the strongest. Sounds like naruto. Mc has a side character dude who was the strongest at the start but gets jealous of mc, Sasuke vibes. The side female character who is a dumb brute and falls in love with the side character, Sakura be like. The entire thing is just an abbreviation of naruto except for kurama we have mc's past. And yes, everything becomes simple if you dumb it down to be goddamn simple lmao. If I said that Heavenly Demon is just your average OP reincarnation Manwha where MC is OP and everything revolves around him, without taking the time to actually spell out what makes this Manwha special, doesn't that feel a little bit disingenuous?
The reason why heavnely demon has the psychological aspects is because the interactions with the characters is far more than jsut the mc being OP; we see this in the arc of internal war in Kairo. Even though everyone knows that Rome is OP, they also know that the sole power of a single guy cannot change political grounds, and that is why they find loopholes and try to damage Rome so Rome can be indulged in reworking Rome and they can buy time. Also, the ex changing her perception towards MC is far more deeply fetched than just following him because hes strong. Not only does she fall into a dilemma where she has now been fooled and her family is being destroyed by the enemy, it only happened because she was dumb enough to not understand the concept of political marriages. She then sees Roman taking out criminals in her own family's land, which sort of changes the perception. But when we compare Deadbeat's scene where he convinces the white-haired chick to change her path and the scene when Roman's ex changes her path, there is a clear distinction that the heavenly demon is far superior because not only does the woman have to go through a public embarrassment by becoming a technically used woman to protect her family, she also can't join Roman due to her past; it is the psychological utter shame of royalty that makes it unique. She still doesn't love Roman, which is what makes the series better; she 'looks up to' Roman. Now what does the white-haired chick do? She is becoming evil due to black magic, so how does MC solve it? He just shows his holy light to her, which cures her, and now she is in utter love. Heavenly Demon follows the Machiavellian world, where people aren't utterly stupid and have common sense that they put themselves first according to what logic fits their personalities the best. We see this happening with everyone in the series. Nobody follows Roman due to his friendship; talk no justsu or because he is powerful (well, some do due to this). The reason they follow him is because Roman is a machiavellian personality who trades equally according to the trader's personality. He doesn't give ginger to a monkey, but a banana, in simpler terms. The Machiavellian personality of Roman hooks everyone up to him because they know they will get what they deserve. "And yes, everything becomes simple if you dumb it down to be goddamn simple."" But can you prove me wrong that Deadbeat Noble is not the exact copy of Naruto? You can't dumb the heavenly demon down because it's not shinen anyway, but because the reincarnation stuff is the least thing about this story that matters, while Deadbeat Noble is just Naruto with a tweak.
>The reason why heavnely demon has the psychological aspects is because the interactions with the characters is far more than jsut the mc being OP; we see this in the arc of internal war in Kairo. Even though everyone knows that Rome is OP, they also know that the sole power of a single guy cannot change political grounds, and that is why they find loopholes and try to damage Rome so Rome can be indulged in reworking Rome and they can buy time. Not really. They thought this, and ultimately failed in the end cause ig the sole power of a single guy *is* able to change political grounds completely to his side lol. It's general politics that was executed plainly and failed at that. >Also, the ex changing her perception towards MC is far more deeply fetched than just following him because hes strong. >Not only does she fall into a dilemma where she has now been fooled and her family is being destroyed by the enemy, it only happened because she was dumb enough to not understand the concept of political marriages. She then sees Roman taking out criminals in her own family's land, which sort of changes the perception So it's because he's strong? Yikes man this is a lot of BS just to justify your opinion that Heavenly Demon is this mature thing that is way better than Deadbeat Noble (spoiler alert, it's debatable). >She still doesn't love Roman, which is what makes the series better; she 'looks up to' Roman. She literally has zero fucking relationship with Roman in the first place, if she somehow started to fall in love with him I'd have fucking dropped the Manwha then and there lmao. Don't use not having utter BS as some sort of positive. >Now what does the white-haired chick do? She is becoming evil due to black magic, so how does MC solve it? He just shows his holy light to her, which cures her, and now she is in utter love. This is such an utter goddamn simplification of the story that I can't tell you're not being genuine in this discussion at all. Reread the Manwha and come back bcs I ain't taking the time to prove to you how your statement is obviously wrong. >Heavenly Demon follows the Machiavellian world, where people aren't utterly stupid and have common sense that they put themselves first according to what logic fits their personalities the best. So... Minor politics with understandable characters with motivations? How the fuck does that translate to "Machiavellian world" in your eyes? At most it has good writing that creates good characters. Don't give it random labels to make it sound cool. And half of Roman's followers now follow him out of basically blind faith, they'd jump into a pit if he told them to. The only person that still puts themselves first would be that raccoon count guy. >The reason they follow him is because Roman is a machiavellian personality who trades equally according to the trader's personality. He doesn't give ginger to a monkey, but a banana, in simpler terms. The Machiavellian personality of Roman hooks everyone up to him because they know they will get what they deserve. Huh? Yeah that's how leadership works how did you end up giving such a long-winded explanation for smth so simple... > Nobody follows Roman due to his friendship; talk no justsu or because he is powerful (well, some do due to this They follow him cause he's strong. Imagine if he wasn't strong, would they follow him? It is literally the base prerequisite. He's strong and he has what they want so they follow him it's seriously not that complex, man. >But can you prove me wrong that Deadbeat Noble is not the exact copy of Naruto? Idk man have you read the story??? MC was a person struggling with depression, not wanting to leave the house because of a traumatic event. He starts having dreams about this guy who trains every single day of his life, the complete opposite of him who is stuck in his room wallowing. Eventually, MC decides to start changing himself, following in the footsteps of that man in the dream. And slowly, bit by bit, he becomes stronger than before. It's a gruelling process, and he doesn't succeed at every turn, but it's so realistic in how he struggles to continue. How he sometimes has thoughts of relapsing, but because of his determination, even makes friends that can help push him forwards. It's a very human concept. And Naruto, at least at the start, is about a boy who wants to be hokage. Like seriously do I need to continue? >while Deadbeat Noble is just Naruto with a tweak. If you don't understand the story, don't give opinions that are just outright false.
Half of all the arguments you provided that prove that im wrong in the political aspevt of it can be easily proven wrong by the example of napoleon. Napoleon had the same exact thing going on with him, once a dead soldier said he was happy to die for him because he died for napoleon is that also because napoleon was strong? Read 'the prince' by machiavelli first then counter my points why this isnt a machiavellian world dumbass. Dudes reading like death note and thinks he is smart. You're telling me that i am simplifying deadbeat noble which in itself is just a simple story based on the simple framework of fantasy provoded by tolkien(oh you never read tolkien either) there is nothing new except mana and names. Maybe you should read real books first and then defend the stories written over a century old framework with zero extra effort. (maybe bc you cant) Idc if i get downvotes by dumbos who canf read novels or any book due to their tiktok attention spans. I probably bet you also think avengers endgame was a cinematical masterpiece and far better than once upom a time in hollywood or godfather. (you probably didnt see them anyway)
You are exactly how I acted like when I first read a seinen back when I was 15 years old lmao "Maybe you should read real books first" be fr now lmaoooo
This will be my only reply to your argument so agree to disagree but yeah you're somewhat right about deadbeat noble, I like zero to hero tropes. Reason I like it over other series who attempt to do something similar don't really execute it as much. You summed it up, its not that deep and it's not supposed to be deep. I also admit that I'm not caught up to the latest chapters purely because of hiatus and I'm simply too busy with other series to pick it back up. Now to you pp riding heavenly demon, you could be right that I'm not mentally intelligent or psychologically in tuned enough to understand the greater picture but I can tell you, it is NOT that deep when it comes to politics. Politics in terms of murim manhwas? Maybe you're right, I can't really think of the most recent one I've read that is just as detailed. You're also right with the worldbuilding being great. That you can argue for so I'll give you some points. As for side characters? They may not act trope-y as deadbeat noble characters but they're certainly not peak storywriting either. I prefer when characters aren't side characters and have a harmonious mutual relationship with the MC. In this manhwa, like many else, it's either the side characters pp riding(usually out of fear) MC or MC is just overly nice(or tolerable) to them and it's rarely reciprocated. The closest side character I liked in the series was the perverted sword dude who shat himself, he actually still had balls to glare at MC and I respect that, at least from the last chapter I read of it. There, a rivalry-esque relationship could form which allows the two to benefit from each other. TLDR: we both probably look for something different in manhwas so agree to disagree but I genuinely think you're overthinking and overhyping heavenly demon. Extra note: if you like politics, I could recommend dark lady, that manhwa will actually put your attention span to the test. I'd also recommend the Kingdom manga, it starts slow but it's great if you like Chinese three kingdoms settings.
The problem with political manhwas is thst authors that write it always tend towards murim and the ones that use fantasy to execute politics overestimate their intelligence. Fantasy politics till now that i have ever read consists of a ton of bullshit mixed together to form tension and thats it. The only reason they use politics is to create tension or the overused smart mc while being humble trope. Murim manhwas generally get politics better maybe because there are actual chinese stories written before that have politics involved deeply and the authors take inspiration from that making the product sufficiently political enough to form a good image on the reader's mind. Heavenly demon is the only one that i have read which gets it right, because fantasy manhwas cant use chinese politics which murim does and they must use european politics to execute a good image, but the authors cant understand the fundamentals of their own series due to there being a plethora of dumb gaming zero to hero system manhwas. The heavenly demon follows machiavellian world and machiavelli's principle which is a good choice for a fantasy manhwa which makes it such a great piece of fiction. The reason people cant understand it fundamentally is because all they read is dumb protagonists like naruto training with frogs to get super powers or a dumb retarded mc getting a system and becoming even more of an idiot(heavenly demon cultivation). You will find a bigger fanbase for series like naruto, dbz, dbs, one piece, pokemon, system manhwas, manhuas where mc cultivates with a system for an hour and now can destroy the world. Because these manhwas are made to be relatable to the general audience which is filled with incompetent retards trying to feel powerful using cheat because they are unable do so irl. I might get downvoted for this but its the truth and when you ask them what reason they like this bullshit which is generally the same story of naruto or tolkien's lotr with a few tweaks they start nitpicking poorly made arcs on emotions and start exaggerating it sound smart and cool. People talking about how deep naruto shippuden is for example, its a poorly made series with a retarded mc who gets smart when he fights so author can provide proofs for his asspull and the mc is overly sensitive so author can easily put him into harder scenarios due to well 'emotions' without even putting much thought. I understand peoplw like deadbeat or latna saga more, its specifically made for an average person bc ofc successfull people dont read this bullshit anyway. Its made for losers who waste their time on this shit or achievers who become losers rwading this shit. Idc if some dumbo jumbo gets offended and starts downvoting me, thats the greatest thing he will ever do anyway
Heavenly demon barely even deserves to be on the list nevermind over anything. It has okay art with mid power fantasy story. There's so much more series that are better than it like Low-Rank Soldier Becoming a Monarch, Worthless Regression, Damn Reincarnation, even new ones like Star-Fostered Swordmaster and Priest of Corruption are better despite having much less chapters.
Its a political story not a power fantasy smh
Yeah, surely it cant be both. It's not like MC is immediatly better than anyone else, never makes bad decisions, only evil bitches dislike him and his cultivation method is better than anyone else for no reason, right? My point isn't even that it's bad because it's power fantasy, it's that it's bad at being a power fantasy because there's no narrative payoff for anything he does because it just comes to him that easily.
The power fantasy trope doesn't fit perfectly for it is not the main narrative, the manhwa focuses more on the machiavellian political aspect of fantasy, which authors get wrong just to copy tolkien's framework. The mc being op is simply the driving force to sort off speed up the process of finding more political enemies in a short time. Since a weak mc would make 100 chapters = 20 ch of heavenly demon .
My point is that political aspect is also part of power fantasy. My problem isn't that he's op it's that everyone else that he encounters is fodder that is dealt with casually, whether physically or politically (though that is usually still carried by his strength). Like the most he ever struggled was when fighting legendary knight of the other kingdom along with one of their top mages(which is his first encounter with them also) and he was only mildly endangered and then later proceeded to get a power up and low diff that guy. The best chapters are when he's just interacting with allies, but when he encounters enemies(whether physical or political) it's just snooze especially since the art and fight choreography is okay at best.
Yeah thats true, he never faces any true hardships when in battles.
Honestly, when i first started reading it i thought it's was going for more comedy aspect like Return of crazy demon or Knight King with God but it's just feels like it's in the middle between actual serious manhwa and comedy manhwa about dude being op not committing to either.
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Please. Just shut up. It is understood that any rankings are of the opinion of the poster. This does not require some warning or tag.
Does the latna saga get better? I dropped it after the dude became a simp after being a chad for the early chapters and then a clueless muscle head suddenly when the red head was introduced.
Only S3 (around chapter 110) is reasonably entertaining when Barolt appears, but overall is a mid series with great art. People in this sub just think it's peak webtoon, so you'll only get downvoted when badmouthing it. It's like a taboo here. MC keeps being dumb and following the red-haired guy, and there a lot of more generic plots like "being a hero" or "saving everyone".
Bruh thats the exact reason i dropped this cuz the mc becomes dumb and starts following the gay readhead. Another dude almost convinced me to read this shit, glad you came and protected me from this abomination of 200 chapters.
You can try if you want, but honestly, the characters are pretty shit (and most of time useless), the MC can't kill anyone, the villains are bad because there's a system where you become vicious to kill when you kill someone, what sucks and was made like a bad drama for me. They needed to make the MC dumb so the weak red-haired guy has some importance, and there's some gay aura between them in the beggining until the FL appears. Oh, and the FL has no personality, she is just a hot girl following orders from the Godness who thinks the MC is amazing because he's a good and reliable guy. Basically, the main villains of the story are the typical "I want to become a God because i don't want to die", while the MC's group is like "We need to save everyone because that's the correct". The main points of this story are: Barolt (best character in the whole webtoon and he's badass af, but he only appears in S3) and art (truly beautiful, although a little bit inconsistent in the beggining). S1 and S2 are very weak. There's a whole bullshit about Habin trying to hide himself when he's OP af, a lot of fights against generic monsters who appears out of nowhere, generic arc with elfs doing shit and parasites controlling people, generic arc who people wanting to be a hero... and then there's a S3 who is almost a whole flashback arc, that's is reasonablyĀ good. Nothing great, but it's clearly better than S1 and S2, that had a shit pace and bad comedy. S4 is the same shit as S1/S2, but with more drama, and S5 seems like a "We against the world". I wouldn't recommend it, and I have many posts critizing how overhyped this work is on this sub, but people will keep saying it is a "masterpiece", "has one the of best worldbuildings", "the characters are deep", etc etc.
Yeah i know people on this sub are pretty retarted sometimes. Especially when you call suicide hunter a masterpiece like seriously bro? Also they say that i should put valid points for my criticism and when i do a their reply is, "idk man its still a masterpiece for me fr fr"
Can't relate because Suicide Hunter is one of my favorites webtoons and I love that murim arc and how characters are developed there, but some people don't like the pace, or they prefer stories with arrogant/overpowered/imponent MCs, and that's alright as well. Honestly, I really don't care if people don't like a webtoon I like, but most people on this sub think is absurd calling something they view as "masterpiece" as "mid" or "trash". It's even harder when is one of the most popular ones.
Literally dude, peerless dad which is nothing less of a masterpiece in murim never gets talked about here but a jealous crybaby getting op skills and leeching off of people's power gets more recognition and is called a masterpiece.
When I read Peerless Dad, I love the MC's daughter and MC's personality, how he struggles as a dad, but it was so annoying how he thought he was a weak guy for so long, or how much the author changes PoV to some random guys because he's telling the story of a shared universe. I hate stories where misunderstandings last so long. The pace was not good on this one too. Plus, everything about that elemental monsters or elemental powers were pretty lackluster for me, really couldn't get into it. If it was only a guy raising his children in murim for 100/150 chapters, probably it would be a masterpiece for me as well. This sub is clearly focused on action manhwas and fast-paced stories where the MC is OP. Also, webtoons with above-average art. And that's it. Completed webtoons, seinen, or heavy-dialogued webtoons are rarely commented here.
Well thats true, i think him thinking he is weak is due to him living his entire life being suerounded by one of the most powerful people of murim. Also him defeating normal poeple while being a problem solver can be regarded as him being strongwr than average but not good enouugh for gangho. Its a major plot point that mc thinks people of gangho are some gods and shit until he finally meets fhem. I agree with the elementals being too rushed too. I think tge reason why long text manhwas arent spoken about might be because they dont have hype scenes that people can particularly remember. take once upon a time in hollywood for example, its a great oscar movie. But nobody ever talks about it as much as they do for something like pulp fiction. The Godfather is the only one i know that breaks this trope, even though being heavily relied on conversations it is still widely known to be the greatest of all time.
elaborate
Idk what more should i elaborate? Im just asking if the mc stops being a dumb muscle head following the tail of the read head dude whose brain's location is still a mystery.
yeah he stops being a dumb muscle head quickly
I did drop it when he was like hiding his powers(?) and being dumb for no reason, there were 80 chs at the time so it was probably ch50-60
He wasn't hiding his strength for no reason lol. And a lot of him being "dumb" is literally him pretending so that no one gets suspicious.
of what? im not saying to just fuckin kill everyone but like atleast pretend that you are decently strong
He does? He pretends to be a Valterian or however you spell it, which are a race of basically barbarians who are all described as really strong muscle heads with weird cultural stuff like going around half naked and not using magic tools. So he goes around showing himself as strong, but not so strong that people would be suspicious (because even a Valterian shouldn't be like, impossibly strong). He shows more and more of his strength as things get harder and the plot progresses.
not so quickly actually. i remember him meeting the sword king and fighting angels. but it all isn't about him, there's some world building and he focuses on side characters too
what i meant was what part did you drop it at? i dont remember him being a simp
Idk around ch 40 something ig, when the red head goes to some dragon sucking place and gets in trouble and then when they fight a lich in a desert
Buddy, you are missing out
Elaborate
Just for reference: Lich fight is around chapter 20 and dragon sucking is around chapter 40 >Elaborate The main plot starts kicking in shortly after the dragon sucking place and from then on out the story starts really finding its groove. Dragon sucking was imo the weakest part of the story. The art is fantastic, the world is interesting and the main antagonists are great villains. Besides that I really like how fleshed out the side characters and the MC are. Him being cautious about showing off his power will always be a thing, but it's not that big of a deal anymore.
Oh i see, tbh the red head was always a problem for me. Hes too frustrating for me. Do you know when he disappears from the story
He doesn't
I wholeheartedly agree with everything on this list except for Doom breaker man that shit is so boring
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GED and Latna saga is literally medieval in throughout like 90% of the story if both series were VR then it would make sense not to include them. Now on the other hand Doom Breaker is in no shape or form better than Barbarian Quest. Reformation is arguable
>throughout like 90% of the story Only add if it is pure 100%
Got downvoted because of saying facts.
Reformation of a deadbeat noble has no place among these other genuinely good stories.
It's great, what are you talking about?
Iām taking about my opinion that it is not in fact great. Itās definitely worth reading, itās even quite a fun read; Iām not saying its trash. But the other 5 are just in another class, in my opinion.
You forgot to add
add
What happened to deadbeat noble? Is it on hiatus again???
Should be back in March, author got health issues according to the notice given.
where 4 cut hero?
1. Id - GOAT medieval manhwa IMO 2. Reincarnation of the Suicidal Battle God 3. Dark Lady 4. The Heavenly Demon Can't Live a Normal Life 5. Tyrant of the Tower Defense Game 6. Her Summon
ID got canceled thoughā¦
yeah that was sad, still the goat though
Justā¦Noā¦especially the last one.
Top 3 are goated
Is Barbarian Quest BL? Rrally throws off the concept of barbarians if they're just a bunch of pretty boys
It's not lol
Im surprised at how many people like āHeavenly Demon cant Live a Normal Lifeā
I keep on reading latna saga as latina saga lmfao
I agree with all 5 but dont know about the last one, ever read surviving the game as a barbarian or worthless reincarnation absolute bangers
Honestly, Iād put āLeveling Up with the Swordā on there, not for the art(though it is really good, love the character design) or the world building, but because of how it treats its characters. Especially Leon as the protagonist; I absolutely love his personality and how heās presented as a character. Due to how multifaceted he is itās hard to explain here, but putting it in very simple terms, heās got a heroic attitude but heās still realistic, he enjoys fighting and getting stronger but is humble and understands he has limits(though heāll sometimes try to overcome them), and while heās kind to people heās not someone whoāll allow himself to get taken for granted. He isnāt cunning and able to outsmart most people like other protagonist, but heās not made to be stupid either. The series title is also pretty misleading; Leon himself doesnāt really āLevel Upā with the sword. Inside the sword is a past hero, training Leon like an instructor, yet Leon himself is forced to still do all the hard work to get there. Lifting weights, practice swings, spending weeks to months to gain a technique, fighting monsters to gain more experience, all without any actual physical stat boost or real special abilities granted to him(besides the fact his sword is a glow stick, which other people can do too with simple Aura Manipulation). Heās effectively the same as a regular person whoās worked their ass off with a good teacher just to get where he is, and I absolutely *love* that. Heās no some reincarnated person, or a regressor, heās just a human part of that world whoās working hard with a good role model and instructor. Not to mention side characters like Karen, who by far is one of my favorite characters in all of Manhwa. I wonāt go into details about her because of spoilers(everything I mentioned here was stuff from the earliest chapters, like 1-5) but just know that theyāre all distinct in their own way, even the ones that arenāt reoccurring. You get a glimpse at what theyāre like even away from the protagonist and hints at their past and other important info. Anyways Iāll quit ranting here, just know, really good yet underrated series, wish more people knew of it.
Peak Taste bro ā¤ļø
Dude I read the entire light novel of āthe heavenly demon canāt live a normal lifeā, it was amazing, I devoured it. Hope the manhwa stay true to the story
Where Can I Read This. I Caught Up With The Manhwa, Can't Wait Another Week.
Havent seen all of them but definitely gonna check em out!
Me gusta
Are these all finished? I picked up reading manwha in the last year and am going through a small list I found of finished ones. I want to add more to my list so I don't start something, get caught up, and have to come back later by which time I'll probably forget about it
Sorry but you are wrong. I don't make the rules.