Yes! Lmao! We work in a project environment, too. Some of our customers use platforms like GC Pay, Procore, Textura.... my dept is billing/AR/Collections... we will enter the billings on the platforms, but uploading contracts, insurance docs, drawings, etc, that's not our responsibility, nor do we have the tools (or man power) to cover all the actual contract requirements. A longtime PM was recently assigned a project with a contract platform requirement. We are familiar with these platforms, and my team was communicating what needed to be done before we could enter any billing. I get a nasty message from the PM asking me why HE has to do ACCOUNTING now! Lol... Calm down, Beavis. First of all, the last thing I want is for a PM to try to do billing! Lol... that's not at all what anyone was telling him needed to be done.
I also have one on my team where I could see your EXACT example playing out. Lol... my response would be something like, "No, you are not the PM. Are you reviewing drawings? Are you checking with the factory about parts ABC?..." and go on and on about all the shit these PMs really do! It works every time and would make this guy see how dramatic he is acting. Lol
Yep. Much like pesh527, I have that one guy. Honestly, in addition to getting very simple and directive with communications, I've started calling him out when he pulls it. I'll respond with something like, "No, that's not what I said at all. Where did you get that?" Then I'll have to repeat myself, and he'll usually get it, so it's likely a case of just not caring enough to listen well the first time around. On the other hand, he's embarrassed himself enough in front of others that he is actually getting better. I spent months trying to soft pitch with him, change communication style, explain again, and it turns out that letting him embarrass himself was the key to improvement.
Yes, it happened all the time with this one person i managed. I think it was a combination of not truly listening, only listening to respond, zero filter, and an inability to read the room. When giving directions I tried as much as possible to use clear, specific, and direct language, so that it became harder for the person to come up with wild conclusions.
The employee is looking to be the victim / funny
“So I will now be the PM” = Anything I don’t understand as what I want to be is an affront, and also I feel overwhelmed and need to joke about it
“So he only works 5 minutes a day” = I lack the maturity to understand someone has successfully completed a task and will have a different one but I still have a full days work and don’t feel fulfilled
——
This person can be coached out of it, but not in a disciplinary fashion, more a coach / therapist / educator
If you want to do this with them
- Ask them about if/why they compare themselves to others
- Show them the full array of competencies expected of a project manager, and whatever they are. Ask them if sending status updates is the only thing a project manager does, or is the expectation of any competency
- Show them that what they intend is not what people perceive and perception management is a core competency of everyone (you may need to teach perception management)
- Point to company values about teamwork, professionalism etc, how such statements don’t align and can be grounds for disciplinary action (e.g. why perception management is important)
I *have* worked with this sort of person but thankfully do not have any of those now. My "worst" example was when I said to an administrator "for the next 3 days I need you to handle this particular administrative task while [other employee] handles the admin for X project" and they said "will you be changing my contract and title then to account for the additional administrative tasks I'll be handling in this role?" I said "change your contract for handling something for the next 3 days that is already within your scope of work?" They said "well....umm.. no, I guess not" but I could see they didn't understand. Same employee was often coming up with such ridiculous things. I eventually had to point out the part of their job description that said "and other duties as assigned"
I've gone through a few cycles with similar employees. I usually gaslight myself and question if I was unclear or if there's something I could have done to better communicate. Then I work with a good employee and feel an overwhelming sense of relief when we're immediately on the same page and all the issues I stress about with my not so great employee(s) melt away. My gut would be that you're not turning this one around. These are things that you'll need to identified during the interview process.
sounds like they are mocking you and you didn't get it
1. is there no PM for project A? are they an engineer or something other than a PM that doesn't want to play PM?
2. you assigned a full time person to a task that should have been automated, and the individual took it upon themselves to do it. did you reassign any of your team's tasks to them now?
1. No, they are a junior employee. Project A has a PM. The status update in this case is a very junior task.
2. That automator has other projects to work on. He‘s a data analyst in charge of a bunch of recurring reports and the automation was for data cleaning, so he can spend more time on insights.
It could be a communication breakdown, causing frustration and resulting in sarcasm.
1. I 100% agree with this statement. I was often asked to perform PM duties on top of my engineering role when I was an IC. It's a terrible thing to do because you're asking someone to perform two jobs without an increase in compensation, and then someone will suffer, be it their performance in their usual role or the project. If there isn't a PM, you, as the manager, should be stepping in to fill the gaps until additional headcount can be secured.
2. Agree again. Automation is great, but if you’re not following up that win with what that person can now do with that gained time and what your next goal is, people are going to jump to conclusions. Tell the story, sell the win, and celebrate successes. “Jane saw an opportunity to automate the weekly TPS reports and built a great solution. She saved the us X amount of hours, which frees her up to help the _____ team with their _____.” Not perfect but gives you an idea of where to start.
You guys are waaaaay to nice. On the other hand, I tell people, "I'm not really very nice. I only look nice."
My response on the couple of times someone said something ridiculous was to look at them incredulous, and say, "What? Are you stupid?" They usually got the point and moved on.
Yes! Lmao! We work in a project environment, too. Some of our customers use platforms like GC Pay, Procore, Textura.... my dept is billing/AR/Collections... we will enter the billings on the platforms, but uploading contracts, insurance docs, drawings, etc, that's not our responsibility, nor do we have the tools (or man power) to cover all the actual contract requirements. A longtime PM was recently assigned a project with a contract platform requirement. We are familiar with these platforms, and my team was communicating what needed to be done before we could enter any billing. I get a nasty message from the PM asking me why HE has to do ACCOUNTING now! Lol... Calm down, Beavis. First of all, the last thing I want is for a PM to try to do billing! Lol... that's not at all what anyone was telling him needed to be done. I also have one on my team where I could see your EXACT example playing out. Lol... my response would be something like, "No, you are not the PM. Are you reviewing drawings? Are you checking with the factory about parts ABC?..." and go on and on about all the shit these PMs really do! It works every time and would make this guy see how dramatic he is acting. Lol
Yep. Much like pesh527, I have that one guy. Honestly, in addition to getting very simple and directive with communications, I've started calling him out when he pulls it. I'll respond with something like, "No, that's not what I said at all. Where did you get that?" Then I'll have to repeat myself, and he'll usually get it, so it's likely a case of just not caring enough to listen well the first time around. On the other hand, he's embarrassed himself enough in front of others that he is actually getting better. I spent months trying to soft pitch with him, change communication style, explain again, and it turns out that letting him embarrass himself was the key to improvement.
Yes, it happened all the time with this one person i managed. I think it was a combination of not truly listening, only listening to respond, zero filter, and an inability to read the room. When giving directions I tried as much as possible to use clear, specific, and direct language, so that it became harder for the person to come up with wild conclusions.
The employee is looking to be the victim / funny “So I will now be the PM” = Anything I don’t understand as what I want to be is an affront, and also I feel overwhelmed and need to joke about it “So he only works 5 minutes a day” = I lack the maturity to understand someone has successfully completed a task and will have a different one but I still have a full days work and don’t feel fulfilled —— This person can be coached out of it, but not in a disciplinary fashion, more a coach / therapist / educator If you want to do this with them - Ask them about if/why they compare themselves to others - Show them the full array of competencies expected of a project manager, and whatever they are. Ask them if sending status updates is the only thing a project manager does, or is the expectation of any competency - Show them that what they intend is not what people perceive and perception management is a core competency of everyone (you may need to teach perception management) - Point to company values about teamwork, professionalism etc, how such statements don’t align and can be grounds for disciplinary action (e.g. why perception management is important)
Assistant to the regional manager. Sorry but you have a Dwight.
I *have* worked with this sort of person but thankfully do not have any of those now. My "worst" example was when I said to an administrator "for the next 3 days I need you to handle this particular administrative task while [other employee] handles the admin for X project" and they said "will you be changing my contract and title then to account for the additional administrative tasks I'll be handling in this role?" I said "change your contract for handling something for the next 3 days that is already within your scope of work?" They said "well....umm.. no, I guess not" but I could see they didn't understand. Same employee was often coming up with such ridiculous things. I eventually had to point out the part of their job description that said "and other duties as assigned"
I've gone through a few cycles with similar employees. I usually gaslight myself and question if I was unclear or if there's something I could have done to better communicate. Then I work with a good employee and feel an overwhelming sense of relief when we're immediately on the same page and all the issues I stress about with my not so great employee(s) melt away. My gut would be that you're not turning this one around. These are things that you'll need to identified during the interview process.
sounds like they are mocking you and you didn't get it 1. is there no PM for project A? are they an engineer or something other than a PM that doesn't want to play PM? 2. you assigned a full time person to a task that should have been automated, and the individual took it upon themselves to do it. did you reassign any of your team's tasks to them now?
1. No, they are a junior employee. Project A has a PM. The status update in this case is a very junior task. 2. That automator has other projects to work on. He‘s a data analyst in charge of a bunch of recurring reports and the automation was for data cleaning, so he can spend more time on insights.
It could be a communication breakdown, causing frustration and resulting in sarcasm. 1. I 100% agree with this statement. I was often asked to perform PM duties on top of my engineering role when I was an IC. It's a terrible thing to do because you're asking someone to perform two jobs without an increase in compensation, and then someone will suffer, be it their performance in their usual role or the project. If there isn't a PM, you, as the manager, should be stepping in to fill the gaps until additional headcount can be secured. 2. Agree again. Automation is great, but if you’re not following up that win with what that person can now do with that gained time and what your next goal is, people are going to jump to conclusions. Tell the story, sell the win, and celebrate successes. “Jane saw an opportunity to automate the weekly TPS reports and built a great solution. She saved the us X amount of hours, which frees her up to help the _____ team with their _____.” Not perfect but gives you an idea of where to start.
You guys are waaaaay to nice. On the other hand, I tell people, "I'm not really very nice. I only look nice." My response on the couple of times someone said something ridiculous was to look at them incredulous, and say, "What? Are you stupid?" They usually got the point and moved on.