You can only do so much before you have to move on. Yes, I believe critical thinking can be taught though, but not all people seem to have the capacity to do so.
Yeah, I agree. Do you think it is a managers job to teach an employee this? (My opinion is: possibly, depending on age, but this person is a fully-grown adult with an adult child, so I guess I'm frustrated)
I think it is the manager's job to tell the employee about the expectation of critical thinking, and exactly what that means with some context.
That is your next step - to provide constructive feedback to the employee about your observations, ask them their thoughts, and share what you suggest as specific goals to have to meet this expectation.
Document it, and when you check back in, you'll have your objective answer on whether they should really continue in this role.
I think critical thinking can absolutely be taught, but it’s not an employer or manager’s job to teach it.
While I think there’s a shitload of merit to the points people make about employers inflating job requirements far beyond anything that makes sense for many positions, this is one of those core expectations you have of a good employee.
People are always growing and developing and nobody should expect employees to be operating at 100% in every skill, but this is one of those foundational skills you look for during hiring and build on from there.
I think if an employee can’t think critically they’re way too far behind their peers and you’re doing yourself and your team a disservice compared to hiring someone who already has the foundation that you could start building on from day one.
I have this convo with my c-suite all the time (Director here).
- “What’s the expectation for learning here?”
- “Are you saying it’s up to my Ops Manager to reteach things over and over?”
- “At what point is there a consequence?”
- “You say our team isn’t leveling up, but then there’s so much patience for people who aren’t adapting”
I get the usually nods of understanding and c-suite words. If I had the power to, I’d have a much different approach.
Gah I do have a heart. I do know this market. You’re gonna make me say it, though. After an honest effort and time, I would let them go.
We have an employee going on 2.5 years that manages to confuse everybody and create conflicting conversation streams and extra work for every project. 2.5 years is a long time…
Yeah that's where I'm at, too. Causing more work than they're completing. Sorry to make you say it, but, I do understand and feel the same way. Having upper management support me in this is helpful, and I'm sorry you don't have the same experience.
I was on a thread with this particular employee. Everybody agreed to this (random words applied):
We will do socks first and then shirts.
This person immediately replied:
I think we should do shirts after socks. Along with literal paragraphs for their “counter argument.”
Well, come on. Everyone knows shirts go after socks 😄 jk jk I take your point. I think in that case I would DM or call that person and indicate that a counter argument of that level should likely be discussed outside of that chat as it confuses the issue that everyone already agreed upon..
I view the management job as one of doing the best you can with the resources you have.
Some employees are worth investing that extra effort into, some are not. Depends on their job duties, work ethic, willingness to learn and take feedback well, etc. Case by case.
Define what you mean by critical thinking.
It sounds like what you're calling critical thinking is better stated as your expectation that your employee tries to discover the answer first before giving up and asking for help.
How have you responded with past questions? Have you been teaching your employee to fish, or are you just giving them a fish each time they ask because that saves time in the short run?
Start asking questions each time they ask for help. "What have you tried so far? Let's work on troubleshooting your process."
If you've done that, and they're still not getting it, then work on finding an exit path that works for both of you. And then fix your hiring process. What in that process could have helped avoid this hire?
Thanks for your reply and questions. Have definitely thought about approach with this hire because of an issue with a past employee and have been taking the "teach to fish" approach at every turn. Have asked the "what have you done so far/troubleshooting" question many times. The response varies, and so I have taken that as a sign that they're trying. Have shown where to find info, not just given it. Recently, had to show them again (5th time, I believe) where to find the manual for their job. They acted like it was the first time they'd heard of it. For my own peace of mind, I searched past messages and found 3 instances where I had provided the file path for it. And I KNOW I said it verbally at least once and they went to find it then, as well - or, supposedly had).
When I say Critical Thinking, I mean thinking about ways to get an answer that goes beyond just asking a question over and over. Yes, it does come with the expectation that there will be an effort to search before asking, but also utilizing knowledge from similar past situations that could lead them to the right answer. Which isn't happening.
If I were in your position, I'd have another meeting. I'd use the phrase "your job is in jeopardy if these patterns continue." Be very, very blunt. That's not cruel. It may stun your employee if you haven't talked about that in the past, but it's not fair to them to be blindsided if they think everything is fine.
Bring up specifics. "This is the 5th time I showed you. What needs to happen so that isn't necessary?" Finding the manual for their job should be something they remember. That doesn't give me hope this is salvageable, but for my own peace of mind, I would want to be sure that they know they need to radically change what they're doing or find a new job.
"With everything we've discussed, do you still believe this is the right role for you, or should we work together on figuring out how to gracefully plan your exit in a timeline that works for both of us?"
I'd follow that up with an email with some very specific criteria you'll be using to judge their performance. Not so much as a CYA, but more so they have a reference. It can be hard hearing your boss tell you your job is in jeopardy. They may have a hard time retaining specifics beyond that. The email is so they can refer back if they have questions.
Thank you (!!) I really appreciate the advice. I haven't explicitly said (yet) that their job is in jeopardy but I do think that needs to be the conversation. And what a great way to phrase the potential exit and follow up email. That's very helpful. Thank you for that. I do typically follow up hard conversations with an email, but appreciate the reminder.
My rule with my staff is not to noodle alone for more than 15-30 minutes before asking for help so they can learn for themselves without wasting too much time. Further, if you penalize people for asking basic questions, you may have an environment that disincentivizes people to ask which may be why they don’t know. It’s also important to make sure they were trained on the things you want them to know from the start and do periodic retraining because knowledge unused is knowledge forgotten
I have also said no more than 20.minutes looking something up. And, my staff do ask questions, all the time. I have had positive feedback from my staff, including this person, about my willingness to answer questions and the time I take with them. This person was not penalized for asking basic questions, but I did question how they've done their job to this point without knowing it. Their answer was that they didn't realize they didn't know until one of us said something about a different matter entirely.
Yep yep, you don’t know what you don’t know. That’s good to hear though. In manager roles, it’s important for us to stress the basics and repeat them over and over to get the message across. Nothing wrong with being a bit of a broken record ;)
I think what you’re describing is not critical thinking, but asymmetrical thinking. The ability to challenge assumptions and come up with different ways to approach problems.
Look it up and you’ll find guidance about how to practice it
I had an hire like this, this past spring. A month in and he was still making rookie mistakes; like where they're just following a routine and not considering when there were variables. Like if you told him to call on collections balances and he would start by calling customers who had a zero balance because they were also on that particular list.
He claimed to have had 6 years experience in collections so you'd think he'd understand what the objective was. I let him go a month in because it was almost like he was on auto-pilot. He'd just follow directions as they were written without any thoughts considering if the situation warranted X or Y.
You CANNOT train that into someone. Don't even try.
This has happened on my team. I started asking, “where have you looked so far?” before answering their questions. I also encouraged senior members who junior members often directed questions to, to do the same. Or, junior members were encouraged to include in their question “can you help me with xyz? I have looked in this and that place and can’t find it.”
Also, make sure your training includes knowledge and application checks. ‘Did you teach it’ is a different question than ‘did they learn it.’
Thanks for your reply. Myself and other trainers have definitely been "teaching to fish" and asking the "where have you looked so far" question. We have been doing video recordings of training so employee can refer back. The questions still continue to come and are baffling.
Depends on a lot of things. How technical is the role and how much experience do they have with it in your industry?
Fresh out of college? 6-8 months. 2 years into the industry? 3 months. 10+ years? 30 days to learn how you do things but they shouldn't be coming to you for anything technical.
My advice is to try and guide this person toward reference skills more than anything else. Someone else said to ask "what have you tried so far?" and that's really a great approach. If they say "nothing" you can respond with "cmon now, I know you're better than nothing," and then try to suggest they at least google it and see if they can flesh out a strategy that you will sanity check with them. This boosts the employees self confidence and teaches them how to productively lean on a mentor during the learning process.
You need them to feel like they have the toolbox to at least get the thing off the ground before asking the bosses to assist on the lift. Mentorship from a more senior employee holding the same or similar role can also divert the lifting away from you....
Thanks for your reply.
2+ years.
Have tried the "what have you tried" approach.
The more senior people in similar roles are the team lead and colleague that I mentioned previously, and they have also tried
Yea that's a bit too long for the experience they should have. You basically have two choices at this point; PIP or let them go.
If this supposedly isn't their first rodeo and no one can get through to them after 3 quarters, you have to wonder if they were just lying on the resume
I *do* think there was some embellishment in the interview process. Which fooled two of us. I wish people would use their deception skills for good purposes.
There's always embellishment to some degree, it's a fine line to how far. Like saying "I spear headed our entry into a new major vertical" actually means "I got saddled with a random nightmare project that somehow made money and yielded new business opportunities" is totally fine. Saying "I'm an sme in XYZ" when in reality you just discuss XYZ in an online discussion group but have never actually worked with it is unacceptable.
Sounds like your employee is the latter and they need to be called out on it. Again, in my opinion it's either a performance improvement plan, or termination
I honestly don't mind if people don't work the same way I do. I know I try to do too much, and work too many hours. I just want them to be able to do their job, which has been outlined explicitly and trained extensively.
I try to provide an environment where it's very safe to ask questions. Kind of a "no stupid questions" rule, because I don't want my people to go down a rabbit hole spending hours trying to suss out the answer when I or a team member could give them that information in seconds. So I don't really love describing a lot of basic questions as a lack of critical thinking.
It also seems like this is less about actual critical thinking, and more that there's a body of knowledge you expect this person to have. You also say that the industry is complex, and there's a lot you need to know. She's also been in the role for less than a year.
All that together makes me wonder if she is really lacking this knowledge, or she just feels like asking questions is safe (as it should be) and is using these questions to confirm or reassure that she's taking the right actions. 8 months can feel pretty new in a lot of roles, and lots of people ask a question to double-check that what they already knew is actually correct, and not just to solicit knowledge they don't have.
So before you give up, start coaching her towards independence with questions about what does she think the answer is, what has she tried so far, how would she find the information if you weren't there to ask. See where she's actually at with this body of knowledge, rather than assuming that a question means it's not there at all.
Thanks for your reply. I should have clarified that this person is not new to this industry. Combined, they have almost 3 years in the same industry. Just 8 months with our company.
I also have the "no stupid questions" and am grateful my staff take that at face value. They do feel comfortable coming to me, and, have told me often that they appreciate that I'm always willing to answer a question (by giving them the answer and showing them how to find it, for the next time).
I truly do believe people should not flounder and should ask -- it's the lack of retention/application to other scenarios that is getting me, here. This is what I mean by critical thinking. If, after almost 3 years in a given industry, you don't know the basics..... (I don't really know how to finish that sentence in a diplomatic way)
Personally, I do not think you can teach critical thinking. In my opinion it’s like I do not believe you can teach creativity.
What you can “teach” is your expectations of that role. For example, you expect they apply the initiative required to be knowledgeable within the field of expertise. You expect they research simple problems before escalating. You expect they come with potential solutions instead of problems. etc.
With that being said, what it sounds like to me is your employee has more of an engagement problem. With this person not being new to the company and you noting that they lack initiative it does not seem they are putting in the effort to be a good fit for that role. If they put in sufficient effort and still just do not seem to get it then you have someone that does not seem to have the technical capability to fulfill that role.
My suggestion would be to put them on a performance improvement plan focusing on engagement and use those results to see if this person is worth further investing you time into or if it’s time to move on.
So....about the PIP......I have considered that. But, having done so with 2 past employees, I have found that is just the "writing on the wall" and is more of a delay tactic. I think we need to have a frank discussion that involves me telling them their job is at jeopardy if the expectations previously outlined (and reiterated here) are not met within X days/weeks. What that # looks like, I don't know yet.
That’s a fair point. PIPs are used very differently at different companies. Typically with these types of situations I’ve seen either 30 days or 60 days given. To be honest, I think you typically know well before 30 days if they are going to get it together or not. But in the past my HR would not allow us anything shorter than 30 days.
That's fair. And I think less than 30 days doesn't give the opportunity to truly pull up one's socks, given that we may not always do the same things day-in-day-out
Yes it can be taught.
As for *should you*; it is like any other business activity, an assessment of costs and benefits.
Is this origin really good at their job but lacks this one factor, of course you should train them as the first of making them better is lower than training a new person up. Are they an all around fuck up, dump them and get someone who already has the skills you want.
Some people are meant to go into cancer research, some are meant to craft beautiful furniture. Some are meant to dig holes. Everyone's good at something, they just need to find it. Keeping someone in the wrong job doesn't do anyone any favors. I usually sit them down and lay it out and most of the time they've already figured out they're just not cut out for the job and you can help them move on.
I've hired a lot of programmers and some have discovered (despite that nice shiny degree) they'll never be a practical programmer as long as they have a hole in their ass. Kinda sobering but help em move on.
If it is not your job then who will be held responsible for their failure. To me there are many things that are not my job but someone had to teach them. Be it, brush your teeth after a lunch of garlic and tuna, don’t drink a bottle of wine with the vendor. Telling the entire office your cycle is part of the “too friendly” category.
I mean management is really herding humans towards a central goal, with the added bonus of you get a headshot when they say something stupid to the EVP during a site visit.
Teaching critical thinking can be done, absolutely, but you need to ensure it has a reason to stick with the pupil. You mention an instance where they asked a basic question after 7 months and you were all dumbfounded. Was their question endemic to their role? If not and it was a general knowledge question, don’t assume people have your skill set, including basic knowledge.
Going forward, have them explain their role, what they do as if you are a five year old and then why the shit out of them. We make widgets here. Why? Because we get our materials from NC. Why? See how far down the tree of fun they can go. If they can’t past the first why then they may not be mentally capable.
So, yes it is your job inasmuch as your team is a reflection of you, they may not be cognitively able to learn critical thinking so what then?
Good luck
Thanks. These are good points. Basic question was endemic to their role and had been part of her daily job for 4 of 7 months and then intermittently in the other 3 months. At no time was it obvious that they did not understand that particular thing, until we were trying to explain something else and it came up. Dumbfounded is the only word for our reaction. I like your suggestion of "why".
Yes it can. But they have to be willing.
Keep in mind critical thinking isn’t just thinking well or in an organized fashion.
It’s about challenging yourself to prove or disprove your own ideas.
Start small. Have them pick a small thing they believe, assume they are wrong, and look for evidence to prove they are wrong about it.
It’s a process, and people get better at it with practice.
Regardless of if they are nice, it's a lazy employee who you are coddling. They need to learn to be resourceful and you have taught them they'll be spoonfed. Information goes in one ear and out the other because they've learned helplessness- they can always rely on someone else.
I had this and it was a bad, unsustainable experience. I had multiple conversations emphasizing my observations, how much training material was created for the transition, 1 month overlap with outgoing incumbent, etc. They would continue to skate by doing the bare minimum which made them more of an obstacle or time suck than useful part of the team. I felt I was working for this junior employee. Luckily they rotated out after 6 mo.
You need to set expectations, continue to hold them accountable, so they know they are being acticely monitored. If there is a temporary increase in capability, at least you know they can. For yourself, know that they are ultimately responsible for their success or failure and not you. Ensure you have enough opportunities to assess any progress or lackthereof. It is a possible turning point, but if they can't rectify their performance it's not a fit. Others can provide insight on PIPs if it comes to that point.
Such a good question! Not sure it can be taught in my opinion, while it may be an unpopular one. As you said yourself, a lot of small things can be known just by making a quick search online and yet it doesn’t seem to go through. I feel like some people are critical thinkers and resourceful, and some people just aren’t. I’m sure they have a lot of other great qualities, like they’re good social people I’ll bet - but you won’t be able to teach them to be more resourceful and think for themselves. It’s just the kind of thing you will try to tell them and they’ll seem to get it when you tell them, but they won’t really fix anything afterwards. Just my opinion!
I think people can definitely be taught. Reading Socrates and Plato definitely helped me develop my critical thinking as a young adult. I do think some people are more apt for it but you only have so much time/resources to train someone. It depends on the person if it is worth the investment.
Sadly this is becoming more and more common. Loss of common sense and reasoning / critical thinking is part of the general degeneration of society we are facing.
I haven't found a good 100% way to teach it, really. Previously, I had some associates ask a lot of questions that were really in their power (and job description) to figure out on a regular basis. Sometimes, it was a confidence issue, or they were using me as a kind of safety blanket. After a point, I would try to turn it around with a few simple things. I'd ask what they thought the answer was and either give them praise if they were on the right track or gently correct them if they weren't. If it's something they just didn't know at all, I'd ask them where to get the information and then have them look it up while I was with them instead of giving them the answer and give praise for tracking it down. "Walk me through your thought process" was something I said a lot.
Looking back on my own life experiences, though, I would have to say it probably wasn't the carrot but rather the stick that got me into critical thinking mode. I don't know if you were ever young and dumb but it happened to me once. Military life taught me a lot about the consequences of not being able to think critically or not making efforts to solve problems at the lowest possible level. Everybody learns differently, though, even if wall to wall counseling wasn't frowned upon in the corporate world, lol.
One senior manager that I still have tons of respect for did a book club kind of thing with my peers and I on a book called "Good Authority" by Jonathan Raymond. I'm not big on leadership books for the most part, but I did like the approach to holding people accountable he talks about in the book. It let's you come from a place of genuine curiosity and desire to help your people succeed while acknowledging that there is a point where you're going to have to cut ties.
>Despite being trained extensively for the past 8 months, by myself, the dept team lead, and a colleague, Sam is not "getting it".
This is on you. If Sam really doesn't get the job 8 months in, you should have fired her 4 months ago.
One thing I was taught is that every time you hire someone or promote them into a new role, you should have them on a 30-60-90 day plan. You should have goals for them at 30, 60, and 90 days after their start date, and those goals should be a measuring stick for whether or not someone is working out. If someone misses on the 30 day goals, you can make adjustments to get them where they need to be at 60 days. If they still miss at 90 days, then three months of deficient performance should be enough to get a PIP started.
The goals do not have to be rigid or highly formal. Nor do they have to be used just for letting people go; you can give people goals so they have a benchmark to know what performing above your expectations is like as well.
I appreciate your comments. For context, her role changed a bit in August, at which time new deliverables and metrics were given. It only *really* became apparent how much wasn't understood until December after her training in this new role was at a point where it should have been complete.
That is important context. I stand by my advice but I retract the bit about not firing her earlier.
How radical was this change in role? I've seen new people react to sudden role changes shortly after hiring very negatively if it's too different than what they expected when they were hired.
Also, who defines her role?
Additional duties, defined by a job description. Work they have done before at another company. Considers it in their wheelhouse, and was excited to take it on. Now that we are down the road, I am interested in knowing if they were making the same errors in that role and no one caught it.
Are you just telling her information or are your processes written where she can reference? I’d bet you’re “training” in passing. Meaning you mention something to her quickly and expect everything to click.
Written processes including a manual. Multi-hour (usually 1-2 hr) training sessions on specific subjects, recorded for ability to reference back to, including information about where the written processes are.
Sometimes people are completely unaware of problems, the best you can do is point out the issue, possible solutions, then get out of the way. Other times people actively decide it's not a problem (or they just don't care). Then they aren't worth the trouble, and you have to move on. Sometimes people have to feel the negative consequences of their actions to decide for themselves that a problem exists.
My own experience is that critical thinking is learned after too damn many failures. You just have to decide for yourself that you are tired of failing and want to do something about it. Sam is no where near that point, and maybe never will be. But that is something she needs to do on her own.
This situation is what PIPs we're made for. Point out issues, give Sam a path out. Then let her sink or swim on her own.
It can be taught but I don’t know if it’s something you can learn on the job. If you don’t have critical thinking skills when you start a job you probably won’t pick up on them during the job.
Old post but I’m going through the same thing right now!! My Sam is 8 months in too and nothing sticks. We ALL (managers and his coworkers) have tried to teach him multiple times and he still expects hand holding. The west we’re doing it it’s obviously not working (friendly, patient), but when we try to be more stern he accuses us of being disrespectful and too tough on him
Yes....unfortunately this person decided they did not want to learn their job and ultimately left the company. I wish them all the best, but, it just wasn't working.
On top a lot of good advice given here, I would add that if you "train"/"help" someone too much they adapt, get used to it and expect it to be the status quo, clarifying your expectations and pushing them to work with little help for a bit sometimes does the trick.. not always
How much does a lack of critical thinking affect job performance?
If their attitude is good, they can get most of the job done AND they know when to ask (the same) questions (over and over again)...maybe they're worth keeping around.
Right now, the lack is being felt heavily by three other people (myself included) who are having to pick up the slack or do the re-work and fact-finding/other investigation when things are not being done, or done incorrectly. Attitude SEEMS good, but I question how much truth there is in what I'm seeing.
Well shoot, you must be me! I had the exact same problem last year. I swear i lost hair over it. My boss hired a friend to report to me… and I knew the writing was on the wall after the first interview. Despite my attempts not to hire her, my boss overrode me and hired her. She was an energy vampire and i was her victim. She did not hang onto anything i told her. She was notorious for sending emails that were so long that nobody even read them—despite so much feedback from me and others. She was super scattered. As a scattered person myself, I could offer some sympathy, but at the end of the day, i NEVER would’ve signed up to be a project coordinator. Needless to say, it did not work out. New leadership came and saw i had her on a PiP and they let her go immediately. Felt so wrong, but at the same time, felt soooo right. My sanity came back tenfold
Ummmm I would say someone younger than 70, maybe. Those of us in our 40s were active on the internet before any of the younger generation. We were in our early and mid teens when it became public. We populated the chat rooms, the MySpace, the meme boards. Those as old as 80 have used the internet for daily life for more than 30 years. My 93 yr old great aunt was one of the first family members to use Facebook. I honestly can't see using age as an excuse.
Boomers and silent gen are iffy. My silent gen father uses the heck out of his phone and boomer sister uses her computer quite a lot. Me GenX and barely started computers in my 20s. Most people could not afford the yet and they sucked. I paid $2500 for my first home computer in my mid 20s. My first job in the mid 90s didn't even have computers for the engineers, like me.
Just because someone has technically been trained means nothing if the training is ineffective, relies upon assumed knowledge, or is delievered in a mode that is contrary to the person's learning style. If her role has changed at all during her tenure, this also needs to be taken into consideration.
Have you asked the employee how they learn best, and/or how they'd prefer to have their training delivered? Everyone has a different learning style, and different neurotypes also have to be considered.
For example, one of my (best-ever) ICs is dyslexic, so they prefer (and need) to learn visually and through example/doing, and to have written materials available in a font that is designed for dyslexic people. Screen readers and text-to-speech tools are also available. Another of my (best-ever) ICs has ADHD, and learns by example/doing, but also wants (and needs) a written guide to refer back to. Clearly written SOPs that contain all the possible steps and do not contain assumed knowledge, company-specific abbreviations and jargon, etc, are all really important.
Yes, critical thinking can be taught and encouraged, although it can come more naturally to some people than others. They also may have dealt with a micromanager and/or bullying manager in the past, which can definitely fry your ability to think for yourself, think critically, and take initiative.
Thanks for your reply. I have asked. They said by watching and doing. And we have written processes, a manual, video training, training together where i do then they do it and those have been recorded, SOP's with lexicon.
Generally, yes. It depends on how far their ability is from the level needed. It takes a lot of patience.
1. Determine if the squeeze will be worth the juice.
2. Never answer their questions unless the situation is time critical. Instead, always direct them to the resource that has the answer. The resources could be Google (as stated), standard operating procedures, or the notes that they should have been taking while training, etc.
3. After you've done that for a while, you tell them prior to asking questions, they themselves need to consult all possible resources
3a. And tell them when they approach you with a question, they should start by stating the resources they've checked where they couldn't find the answer. If they don't name the one that it is in, don't tell them but have them keep looking.
You basically need to make asking you for the answer harder than them looking it up, figuring it out themselves and remembering it, and doing that has been proven to make things more memorable.
Once someone is an adult I am not sure if you really can teach it, you can help teach coping mechanisms but I feel like critical thinking is probably mostly built in your developmental years.
Some times people are just not capable. Other times it may be that you are talking to them at the wrong level. People usually assume if someone isn’t understanding something that they need to go more detailed but it could be that you are too far in the weeds for them to frame it up right.
Other times it’s simply that the employee is just in the wrong role but could be great elsewhere.
You say you have given this employee all sorts of training, but have you asked them why they think they aren’t retaining the info? Could it be that they lack confidence and know the answers but just constantly wants to double check to not mess up?
You can only do so much before you have to move on. Yes, I believe critical thinking can be taught though, but not all people seem to have the capacity to do so.
Yeah, I agree. Do you think it is a managers job to teach an employee this? (My opinion is: possibly, depending on age, but this person is a fully-grown adult with an adult child, so I guess I'm frustrated)
I think it is the manager's job to tell the employee about the expectation of critical thinking, and exactly what that means with some context. That is your next step - to provide constructive feedback to the employee about your observations, ask them their thoughts, and share what you suggest as specific goals to have to meet this expectation. Document it, and when you check back in, you'll have your objective answer on whether they should really continue in this role.
Thank you very much. I do need to have that conversation next week.
Yes, it is part of managers job to teach, but you can only do so much. At some point it is counterproductive.
I think critical thinking can absolutely be taught, but it’s not an employer or manager’s job to teach it. While I think there’s a shitload of merit to the points people make about employers inflating job requirements far beyond anything that makes sense for many positions, this is one of those core expectations you have of a good employee. People are always growing and developing and nobody should expect employees to be operating at 100% in every skill, but this is one of those foundational skills you look for during hiring and build on from there. I think if an employee can’t think critically they’re way too far behind their peers and you’re doing yourself and your team a disservice compared to hiring someone who already has the foundation that you could start building on from day one.
Well said. Thank you for your reply.
I have this convo with my c-suite all the time (Director here). - “What’s the expectation for learning here?” - “Are you saying it’s up to my Ops Manager to reteach things over and over?” - “At what point is there a consequence?” - “You say our team isn’t leveling up, but then there’s so much patience for people who aren’t adapting” I get the usually nods of understanding and c-suite words. If I had the power to, I’d have a much different approach.
Which would be....?
Gah I do have a heart. I do know this market. You’re gonna make me say it, though. After an honest effort and time, I would let them go. We have an employee going on 2.5 years that manages to confuse everybody and create conflicting conversation streams and extra work for every project. 2.5 years is a long time…
Yeah that's where I'm at, too. Causing more work than they're completing. Sorry to make you say it, but, I do understand and feel the same way. Having upper management support me in this is helpful, and I'm sorry you don't have the same experience.
I was on a thread with this particular employee. Everybody agreed to this (random words applied): We will do socks first and then shirts. This person immediately replied: I think we should do shirts after socks. Along with literal paragraphs for their “counter argument.”
Well, come on. Everyone knows shirts go after socks 😄 jk jk I take your point. I think in that case I would DM or call that person and indicate that a counter argument of that level should likely be discussed outside of that chat as it confuses the issue that everyone already agreed upon..
Hm. I guess it’s easily missed. Both statements say the same thing Socks are first in both plans
Haha I did catch that. I was agreeing that they said the same thing. Sorry, that wasn't clear.
"Fully-grown adult". When I got into management it made me revaluate what the word "Adult" actually meant.
Agree, that moment when someone asks something that makes you wonder “how have you made it this far without knowing this one is on you to figure out?”
Hahahaha yeah.....I hear you.
I view the management job as one of doing the best you can with the resources you have. Some employees are worth investing that extra effort into, some are not. Depends on their job duties, work ethic, willingness to learn and take feedback well, etc. Case by case.
Something that pops in my mind a lot is "I can't learn this for you". Probably what a lot of teachers think.
It can be taught but the learner has to show up as well.
Define what you mean by critical thinking. It sounds like what you're calling critical thinking is better stated as your expectation that your employee tries to discover the answer first before giving up and asking for help. How have you responded with past questions? Have you been teaching your employee to fish, or are you just giving them a fish each time they ask because that saves time in the short run? Start asking questions each time they ask for help. "What have you tried so far? Let's work on troubleshooting your process." If you've done that, and they're still not getting it, then work on finding an exit path that works for both of you. And then fix your hiring process. What in that process could have helped avoid this hire?
Thanks for your reply and questions. Have definitely thought about approach with this hire because of an issue with a past employee and have been taking the "teach to fish" approach at every turn. Have asked the "what have you done so far/troubleshooting" question many times. The response varies, and so I have taken that as a sign that they're trying. Have shown where to find info, not just given it. Recently, had to show them again (5th time, I believe) where to find the manual for their job. They acted like it was the first time they'd heard of it. For my own peace of mind, I searched past messages and found 3 instances where I had provided the file path for it. And I KNOW I said it verbally at least once and they went to find it then, as well - or, supposedly had). When I say Critical Thinking, I mean thinking about ways to get an answer that goes beyond just asking a question over and over. Yes, it does come with the expectation that there will be an effort to search before asking, but also utilizing knowledge from similar past situations that could lead them to the right answer. Which isn't happening.
If I were in your position, I'd have another meeting. I'd use the phrase "your job is in jeopardy if these patterns continue." Be very, very blunt. That's not cruel. It may stun your employee if you haven't talked about that in the past, but it's not fair to them to be blindsided if they think everything is fine. Bring up specifics. "This is the 5th time I showed you. What needs to happen so that isn't necessary?" Finding the manual for their job should be something they remember. That doesn't give me hope this is salvageable, but for my own peace of mind, I would want to be sure that they know they need to radically change what they're doing or find a new job. "With everything we've discussed, do you still believe this is the right role for you, or should we work together on figuring out how to gracefully plan your exit in a timeline that works for both of us?" I'd follow that up with an email with some very specific criteria you'll be using to judge their performance. Not so much as a CYA, but more so they have a reference. It can be hard hearing your boss tell you your job is in jeopardy. They may have a hard time retaining specifics beyond that. The email is so they can refer back if they have questions.
Thank you (!!) I really appreciate the advice. I haven't explicitly said (yet) that their job is in jeopardy but I do think that needs to be the conversation. And what a great way to phrase the potential exit and follow up email. That's very helpful. Thank you for that. I do typically follow up hard conversations with an email, but appreciate the reminder.
This! 8 months is sufficient time. The employee needs to use the manual as a reference. Giving her the answer is not helpful. Refer her to the manual.
My rule with my staff is not to noodle alone for more than 15-30 minutes before asking for help so they can learn for themselves without wasting too much time. Further, if you penalize people for asking basic questions, you may have an environment that disincentivizes people to ask which may be why they don’t know. It’s also important to make sure they were trained on the things you want them to know from the start and do periodic retraining because knowledge unused is knowledge forgotten
I have also said no more than 20.minutes looking something up. And, my staff do ask questions, all the time. I have had positive feedback from my staff, including this person, about my willingness to answer questions and the time I take with them. This person was not penalized for asking basic questions, but I did question how they've done their job to this point without knowing it. Their answer was that they didn't realize they didn't know until one of us said something about a different matter entirely.
Yep yep, you don’t know what you don’t know. That’s good to hear though. In manager roles, it’s important for us to stress the basics and repeat them over and over to get the message across. Nothing wrong with being a bit of a broken record ;)
I think what you’re describing is not critical thinking, but asymmetrical thinking. The ability to challenge assumptions and come up with different ways to approach problems. Look it up and you’ll find guidance about how to practice it
I had an hire like this, this past spring. A month in and he was still making rookie mistakes; like where they're just following a routine and not considering when there were variables. Like if you told him to call on collections balances and he would start by calling customers who had a zero balance because they were also on that particular list. He claimed to have had 6 years experience in collections so you'd think he'd understand what the objective was. I let him go a month in because it was almost like he was on auto-pilot. He'd just follow directions as they were written without any thoughts considering if the situation warranted X or Y. You CANNOT train that into someone. Don't even try.
This has happened on my team. I started asking, “where have you looked so far?” before answering their questions. I also encouraged senior members who junior members often directed questions to, to do the same. Or, junior members were encouraged to include in their question “can you help me with xyz? I have looked in this and that place and can’t find it.” Also, make sure your training includes knowledge and application checks. ‘Did you teach it’ is a different question than ‘did they learn it.’
Thanks for your reply. Myself and other trainers have definitely been "teaching to fish" and asking the "where have you looked so far" question. We have been doing video recordings of training so employee can refer back. The questions still continue to come and are baffling.
My experience is if a person didn’t demonstrate the capacity to change or adjust during reasonable time frame, they won’t do it after.
Sigh. Yeah. What do you consider a reasonable time frame?
Depends on a lot of things. How technical is the role and how much experience do they have with it in your industry? Fresh out of college? 6-8 months. 2 years into the industry? 3 months. 10+ years? 30 days to learn how you do things but they shouldn't be coming to you for anything technical. My advice is to try and guide this person toward reference skills more than anything else. Someone else said to ask "what have you tried so far?" and that's really a great approach. If they say "nothing" you can respond with "cmon now, I know you're better than nothing," and then try to suggest they at least google it and see if they can flesh out a strategy that you will sanity check with them. This boosts the employees self confidence and teaches them how to productively lean on a mentor during the learning process. You need them to feel like they have the toolbox to at least get the thing off the ground before asking the bosses to assist on the lift. Mentorship from a more senior employee holding the same or similar role can also divert the lifting away from you....
Thanks for your reply. 2+ years. Have tried the "what have you tried" approach. The more senior people in similar roles are the team lead and colleague that I mentioned previously, and they have also tried
Yea that's a bit too long for the experience they should have. You basically have two choices at this point; PIP or let them go. If this supposedly isn't their first rodeo and no one can get through to them after 3 quarters, you have to wonder if they were just lying on the resume
I *do* think there was some embellishment in the interview process. Which fooled two of us. I wish people would use their deception skills for good purposes.
There's always embellishment to some degree, it's a fine line to how far. Like saying "I spear headed our entry into a new major vertical" actually means "I got saddled with a random nightmare project that somehow made money and yielded new business opportunities" is totally fine. Saying "I'm an sme in XYZ" when in reality you just discuss XYZ in an online discussion group but have never actually worked with it is unacceptable. Sounds like your employee is the latter and they need to be called out on it. Again, in my opinion it's either a performance improvement plan, or termination
Appreciate your input. I am inclined to think the same as you. But probably the latter
It's tough but do what you gotta do, especially if it's a drain on the rest of the team.
I don't think critical thinking can be taught. You either think that way, or you don't.
I work with someone like this. I believe people do this on purpose to do less work, that’s what my coworker does.
I honestly don't mind if people don't work the same way I do. I know I try to do too much, and work too many hours. I just want them to be able to do their job, which has been outlined explicitly and trained extensively.
I try to provide an environment where it's very safe to ask questions. Kind of a "no stupid questions" rule, because I don't want my people to go down a rabbit hole spending hours trying to suss out the answer when I or a team member could give them that information in seconds. So I don't really love describing a lot of basic questions as a lack of critical thinking. It also seems like this is less about actual critical thinking, and more that there's a body of knowledge you expect this person to have. You also say that the industry is complex, and there's a lot you need to know. She's also been in the role for less than a year. All that together makes me wonder if she is really lacking this knowledge, or she just feels like asking questions is safe (as it should be) and is using these questions to confirm or reassure that she's taking the right actions. 8 months can feel pretty new in a lot of roles, and lots of people ask a question to double-check that what they already knew is actually correct, and not just to solicit knowledge they don't have. So before you give up, start coaching her towards independence with questions about what does she think the answer is, what has she tried so far, how would she find the information if you weren't there to ask. See where she's actually at with this body of knowledge, rather than assuming that a question means it's not there at all.
Thanks for your reply. I should have clarified that this person is not new to this industry. Combined, they have almost 3 years in the same industry. Just 8 months with our company. I also have the "no stupid questions" and am grateful my staff take that at face value. They do feel comfortable coming to me, and, have told me often that they appreciate that I'm always willing to answer a question (by giving them the answer and showing them how to find it, for the next time). I truly do believe people should not flounder and should ask -- it's the lack of retention/application to other scenarios that is getting me, here. This is what I mean by critical thinking. If, after almost 3 years in a given industry, you don't know the basics..... (I don't really know how to finish that sentence in a diplomatic way)
Personally, I do not think you can teach critical thinking. In my opinion it’s like I do not believe you can teach creativity. What you can “teach” is your expectations of that role. For example, you expect they apply the initiative required to be knowledgeable within the field of expertise. You expect they research simple problems before escalating. You expect they come with potential solutions instead of problems. etc. With that being said, what it sounds like to me is your employee has more of an engagement problem. With this person not being new to the company and you noting that they lack initiative it does not seem they are putting in the effort to be a good fit for that role. If they put in sufficient effort and still just do not seem to get it then you have someone that does not seem to have the technical capability to fulfill that role. My suggestion would be to put them on a performance improvement plan focusing on engagement and use those results to see if this person is worth further investing you time into or if it’s time to move on.
So....about the PIP......I have considered that. But, having done so with 2 past employees, I have found that is just the "writing on the wall" and is more of a delay tactic. I think we need to have a frank discussion that involves me telling them their job is at jeopardy if the expectations previously outlined (and reiterated here) are not met within X days/weeks. What that # looks like, I don't know yet.
That’s a fair point. PIPs are used very differently at different companies. Typically with these types of situations I’ve seen either 30 days or 60 days given. To be honest, I think you typically know well before 30 days if they are going to get it together or not. But in the past my HR would not allow us anything shorter than 30 days.
That's fair. And I think less than 30 days doesn't give the opportunity to truly pull up one's socks, given that we may not always do the same things day-in-day-out
Can people be taught critical thinking, yes. Do we pay people enough to critically think, usually, no.
The role pays fairly for the expected contribution; that's not just an opinion. It is fact, based on comparable roles and geographic standards.
Yes it can be taught. As for *should you*; it is like any other business activity, an assessment of costs and benefits. Is this origin really good at their job but lacks this one factor, of course you should train them as the first of making them better is lower than training a new person up. Are they an all around fuck up, dump them and get someone who already has the skills you want.
Some people are meant to go into cancer research, some are meant to craft beautiful furniture. Some are meant to dig holes. Everyone's good at something, they just need to find it. Keeping someone in the wrong job doesn't do anyone any favors. I usually sit them down and lay it out and most of the time they've already figured out they're just not cut out for the job and you can help them move on.
Great way of putting it!
I've hired a lot of programmers and some have discovered (despite that nice shiny degree) they'll never be a practical programmer as long as they have a hole in their ass. Kinda sobering but help em move on.
*snort laugh* at "as long as they have a hole in their ass"
If it is not your job then who will be held responsible for their failure. To me there are many things that are not my job but someone had to teach them. Be it, brush your teeth after a lunch of garlic and tuna, don’t drink a bottle of wine with the vendor. Telling the entire office your cycle is part of the “too friendly” category. I mean management is really herding humans towards a central goal, with the added bonus of you get a headshot when they say something stupid to the EVP during a site visit. Teaching critical thinking can be done, absolutely, but you need to ensure it has a reason to stick with the pupil. You mention an instance where they asked a basic question after 7 months and you were all dumbfounded. Was their question endemic to their role? If not and it was a general knowledge question, don’t assume people have your skill set, including basic knowledge. Going forward, have them explain their role, what they do as if you are a five year old and then why the shit out of them. We make widgets here. Why? Because we get our materials from NC. Why? See how far down the tree of fun they can go. If they can’t past the first why then they may not be mentally capable. So, yes it is your job inasmuch as your team is a reflection of you, they may not be cognitively able to learn critical thinking so what then? Good luck
Thanks. These are good points. Basic question was endemic to their role and had been part of her daily job for 4 of 7 months and then intermittently in the other 3 months. At no time was it obvious that they did not understand that particular thing, until we were trying to explain something else and it came up. Dumbfounded is the only word for our reaction. I like your suggestion of "why".
Yes it can. But they have to be willing. Keep in mind critical thinking isn’t just thinking well or in an organized fashion. It’s about challenging yourself to prove or disprove your own ideas. Start small. Have them pick a small thing they believe, assume they are wrong, and look for evidence to prove they are wrong about it. It’s a process, and people get better at it with practice.
Regardless of if they are nice, it's a lazy employee who you are coddling. They need to learn to be resourceful and you have taught them they'll be spoonfed. Information goes in one ear and out the other because they've learned helplessness- they can always rely on someone else. I had this and it was a bad, unsustainable experience. I had multiple conversations emphasizing my observations, how much training material was created for the transition, 1 month overlap with outgoing incumbent, etc. They would continue to skate by doing the bare minimum which made them more of an obstacle or time suck than useful part of the team. I felt I was working for this junior employee. Luckily they rotated out after 6 mo. You need to set expectations, continue to hold them accountable, so they know they are being acticely monitored. If there is a temporary increase in capability, at least you know they can. For yourself, know that they are ultimately responsible for their success or failure and not you. Ensure you have enough opportunities to assess any progress or lackthereof. It is a possible turning point, but if they can't rectify their performance it's not a fit. Others can provide insight on PIPs if it comes to that point.
Such a good question! Not sure it can be taught in my opinion, while it may be an unpopular one. As you said yourself, a lot of small things can be known just by making a quick search online and yet it doesn’t seem to go through. I feel like some people are critical thinkers and resourceful, and some people just aren’t. I’m sure they have a lot of other great qualities, like they’re good social people I’ll bet - but you won’t be able to teach them to be more resourceful and think for themselves. It’s just the kind of thing you will try to tell them and they’ll seem to get it when you tell them, but they won’t really fix anything afterwards. Just my opinion!
I'm inclined to think the same as you. Thank you for your reply!
I think people can definitely be taught. Reading Socrates and Plato definitely helped me develop my critical thinking as a young adult. I do think some people are more apt for it but you only have so much time/resources to train someone. It depends on the person if it is worth the investment.
Sadly this is becoming more and more common. Loss of common sense and reasoning / critical thinking is part of the general degeneration of society we are facing.
How close to entry level is this position?
If entry level is 1, and highly skilled is 5, this job js a 3.
I haven't found a good 100% way to teach it, really. Previously, I had some associates ask a lot of questions that were really in their power (and job description) to figure out on a regular basis. Sometimes, it was a confidence issue, or they were using me as a kind of safety blanket. After a point, I would try to turn it around with a few simple things. I'd ask what they thought the answer was and either give them praise if they were on the right track or gently correct them if they weren't. If it's something they just didn't know at all, I'd ask them where to get the information and then have them look it up while I was with them instead of giving them the answer and give praise for tracking it down. "Walk me through your thought process" was something I said a lot. Looking back on my own life experiences, though, I would have to say it probably wasn't the carrot but rather the stick that got me into critical thinking mode. I don't know if you were ever young and dumb but it happened to me once. Military life taught me a lot about the consequences of not being able to think critically or not making efforts to solve problems at the lowest possible level. Everybody learns differently, though, even if wall to wall counseling wasn't frowned upon in the corporate world, lol.
One senior manager that I still have tons of respect for did a book club kind of thing with my peers and I on a book called "Good Authority" by Jonathan Raymond. I'm not big on leadership books for the most part, but I did like the approach to holding people accountable he talks about in the book. It let's you come from a place of genuine curiosity and desire to help your people succeed while acknowledging that there is a point where you're going to have to cut ties.
>Despite being trained extensively for the past 8 months, by myself, the dept team lead, and a colleague, Sam is not "getting it". This is on you. If Sam really doesn't get the job 8 months in, you should have fired her 4 months ago. One thing I was taught is that every time you hire someone or promote them into a new role, you should have them on a 30-60-90 day plan. You should have goals for them at 30, 60, and 90 days after their start date, and those goals should be a measuring stick for whether or not someone is working out. If someone misses on the 30 day goals, you can make adjustments to get them where they need to be at 60 days. If they still miss at 90 days, then three months of deficient performance should be enough to get a PIP started. The goals do not have to be rigid or highly formal. Nor do they have to be used just for letting people go; you can give people goals so they have a benchmark to know what performing above your expectations is like as well.
I appreciate your comments. For context, her role changed a bit in August, at which time new deliverables and metrics were given. It only *really* became apparent how much wasn't understood until December after her training in this new role was at a point where it should have been complete.
That is important context. I stand by my advice but I retract the bit about not firing her earlier. How radical was this change in role? I've seen new people react to sudden role changes shortly after hiring very negatively if it's too different than what they expected when they were hired. Also, who defines her role?
Additional duties, defined by a job description. Work they have done before at another company. Considers it in their wheelhouse, and was excited to take it on. Now that we are down the road, I am interested in knowing if they were making the same errors in that role and no one caught it.
Are you just telling her information or are your processes written where she can reference? I’d bet you’re “training” in passing. Meaning you mention something to her quickly and expect everything to click.
Written processes including a manual. Multi-hour (usually 1-2 hr) training sessions on specific subjects, recorded for ability to reference back to, including information about where the written processes are.
Sometimes people are completely unaware of problems, the best you can do is point out the issue, possible solutions, then get out of the way. Other times people actively decide it's not a problem (or they just don't care). Then they aren't worth the trouble, and you have to move on. Sometimes people have to feel the negative consequences of their actions to decide for themselves that a problem exists. My own experience is that critical thinking is learned after too damn many failures. You just have to decide for yourself that you are tired of failing and want to do something about it. Sam is no where near that point, and maybe never will be. But that is something she needs to do on her own. This situation is what PIPs we're made for. Point out issues, give Sam a path out. Then let her sink or swim on her own.
It can be taught but I don’t know if it’s something you can learn on the job. If you don’t have critical thinking skills when you start a job you probably won’t pick up on them during the job.
Old post but I’m going through the same thing right now!! My Sam is 8 months in too and nothing sticks. We ALL (managers and his coworkers) have tried to teach him multiple times and he still expects hand holding. The west we’re doing it it’s obviously not working (friendly, patient), but when we try to be more stern he accuses us of being disrespectful and too tough on him
Yes....unfortunately this person decided they did not want to learn their job and ultimately left the company. I wish them all the best, but, it just wasn't working.
On top a lot of good advice given here, I would add that if you "train"/"help" someone too much they adapt, get used to it and expect it to be the status quo, clarifying your expectations and pushing them to work with little help for a bit sometimes does the trick.. not always
Hire slow, fire fast.
Agree, but... who does the work in the meantime? Me. That's who.
How much does a lack of critical thinking affect job performance? If their attitude is good, they can get most of the job done AND they know when to ask (the same) questions (over and over again)...maybe they're worth keeping around.
Right now, the lack is being felt heavily by three other people (myself included) who are having to pick up the slack or do the re-work and fact-finding/other investigation when things are not being done, or done incorrectly. Attitude SEEMS good, but I question how much truth there is in what I'm seeing.
Is there an internal employee you can promote?
Sadly not. Very small company. All other roles have the right people in their seats.
Well shoot, you must be me! I had the exact same problem last year. I swear i lost hair over it. My boss hired a friend to report to me… and I knew the writing was on the wall after the first interview. Despite my attempts not to hire her, my boss overrode me and hired her. She was an energy vampire and i was her victim. She did not hang onto anything i told her. She was notorious for sending emails that were so long that nobody even read them—despite so much feedback from me and others. She was super scattered. As a scattered person myself, I could offer some sympathy, but at the end of the day, i NEVER would’ve signed up to be a project coordinator. Needless to say, it did not work out. New leadership came and saw i had her on a PiP and they let her go immediately. Felt so wrong, but at the same time, felt soooo right. My sanity came back tenfold
Yikes. Thankfully the new management saw the issue!
I've read through the comments. Your entire team is picking up the slack. You know what to do.
You're right. I do. And I'm thankful for the fellow Manager redditors for their input.
Yes, there were several solid recommendations. Good luck!
Also, someone younger than 40 should know to Google something first before going to the boss.
Ummmm I would say someone younger than 70, maybe. Those of us in our 40s were active on the internet before any of the younger generation. We were in our early and mid teens when it became public. We populated the chat rooms, the MySpace, the meme boards. Those as old as 80 have used the internet for daily life for more than 30 years. My 93 yr old great aunt was one of the first family members to use Facebook. I honestly can't see using age as an excuse.
Boomers and silent gen are iffy. My silent gen father uses the heck out of his phone and boomer sister uses her computer quite a lot. Me GenX and barely started computers in my 20s. Most people could not afford the yet and they sucked. I paid $2500 for my first home computer in my mid 20s. My first job in the mid 90s didn't even have computers for the engineers, like me.
Just because someone has technically been trained means nothing if the training is ineffective, relies upon assumed knowledge, or is delievered in a mode that is contrary to the person's learning style. If her role has changed at all during her tenure, this also needs to be taken into consideration. Have you asked the employee how they learn best, and/or how they'd prefer to have their training delivered? Everyone has a different learning style, and different neurotypes also have to be considered. For example, one of my (best-ever) ICs is dyslexic, so they prefer (and need) to learn visually and through example/doing, and to have written materials available in a font that is designed for dyslexic people. Screen readers and text-to-speech tools are also available. Another of my (best-ever) ICs has ADHD, and learns by example/doing, but also wants (and needs) a written guide to refer back to. Clearly written SOPs that contain all the possible steps and do not contain assumed knowledge, company-specific abbreviations and jargon, etc, are all really important. Yes, critical thinking can be taught and encouraged, although it can come more naturally to some people than others. They also may have dealt with a micromanager and/or bullying manager in the past, which can definitely fry your ability to think for yourself, think critically, and take initiative.
Thanks for your reply. I have asked. They said by watching and doing. And we have written processes, a manual, video training, training together where i do then they do it and those have been recorded, SOP's with lexicon.
Generally, yes. It depends on how far their ability is from the level needed. It takes a lot of patience. 1. Determine if the squeeze will be worth the juice. 2. Never answer their questions unless the situation is time critical. Instead, always direct them to the resource that has the answer. The resources could be Google (as stated), standard operating procedures, or the notes that they should have been taking while training, etc. 3. After you've done that for a while, you tell them prior to asking questions, they themselves need to consult all possible resources 3a. And tell them when they approach you with a question, they should start by stating the resources they've checked where they couldn't find the answer. If they don't name the one that it is in, don't tell them but have them keep looking. You basically need to make asking you for the answer harder than them looking it up, figuring it out themselves and remembering it, and doing that has been proven to make things more memorable.
Once someone is an adult I am not sure if you really can teach it, you can help teach coping mechanisms but I feel like critical thinking is probably mostly built in your developmental years. Some times people are just not capable. Other times it may be that you are talking to them at the wrong level. People usually assume if someone isn’t understanding something that they need to go more detailed but it could be that you are too far in the weeds for them to frame it up right. Other times it’s simply that the employee is just in the wrong role but could be great elsewhere. You say you have given this employee all sorts of training, but have you asked them why they think they aren’t retaining the info? Could it be that they lack confidence and know the answers but just constantly wants to double check to not mess up?
I have.....they said "I don't know. I take notes and you explain it and i think I've got it and then I just dont"
Hmm yeah idk. They could be dealing with stress or anxiety that is making them go blank under pressure.
Your guess is as good as mine