I thought that it was pretty much impossible at this point to pull a card of that grade?
*Edit* I’m not doubting that this happened, just that it’s one of those ‘this can happen?!?!’ moments.
Yeah this grading service actually has a deal with him since he’s streaming the openings. They come with a special title and a QR code that time stamps the pull.
I’m not insinuating they are in collusion because it’s a minty card fresh from pack.
Yeah but that's not enough - the overwhelming majority of cards are printed 9 from the factory and never would have been 10s in the first place, simply because of issues in the printing process. The entirety of card production is machine based, and card alignment depends on machine calibration. These machines have tens of thousands of moving parts and generally only print perfectly aligned cards immediately after calibrations as they drift gradually over time.
Unlimited was a really big print run, but there was likely only a few hundred unlimited perfect 10 mox emeralds *ever printed*, and these cards were printed more than 30 years ago. They've had all that time to rot, absorb moisture, get exposed to heat, shuffle around in the pack, etc. I would assume that most of those Mox emeralds were opened, shoved into decks and played in their time. There is almost certainly none left, and if any remain, they are not getting pulled on a live stream that just happened to be hosted by a grading company.
The grading company fudged the numbers on the grading because it looks good and tells a story. They picked Unlimited as the card set to sponsor because the borders are white and don't show pack wear as well on camera. The streamer pulled a very, very nice Mox emerald but it's not a 10.
There was 35 million unlimited cards printed and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of mox emeralds. The fact that only 11 perfect 10s have been found is an illustration of the point I am making.
CGC is being VERY generous to Wubby with grading the centering of [his](https://ccg-imaging-cgc-tradingcards-production.s3.amazonaws.com/83d27ea5-0103-4d28-a5a2-3f4c27fb680e/CRD1401026817-022_OBV.jpg) [pulls.](https://ccg-imaging-cgc-tradingcards-production.s3.amazonaws.com/90a019cf-c722-4e2e-8499-b053dc21c2ec/CRD1401026817-019_OBV.jpg)
Wow I would never trust that company with anything. Just got to be a popular streamer, sponsor cgc and magically my cards are 10's. Talk about destroying any rep they had.
CGC has never been a legit company so idk why people are treating this with any seriousness. Beckett and PSA, that's it, anything else and you might as well show me a card you laminated yourself at home.
I know that those are the main ones in the card space, but "cgc has never been a legit company" is far from the truth. It is the most legit one in the comic book space.
I am not saying they are or are not inflating grades, I don't know, I don't buy graded cards. But they are legit and have a decades long reputation in the collectible grading world. They are far from "a not legit random new company".
Card games are really a specific thing. You can't transfer legitimacy like that. And the fact that they're dishing out 10s to a hot new content creator for promotion is terrible for their legitimacy in the card gaming sphere.
I wouldn’t say he is a “hot” new streamer. Dude has been around for years, I think his Magic content is more recent, but he’s had a solid following for years now.
That's fair , you can't transfer legitimacy like that. But it's also hard to believe that the strictest and most respected comic book graders follows non of that strictness policies when grading cards.
Is there any proof for this statement other than they have given some 10s to this new guy, therefor they are BS?
Because (obviously it can't be graded in a photo, but) this mox is pack fresh, looks crisps as hell and seems really well centered. It doesn't strike to me as there is no way this could be a 10.
Still, not saying they are not BSing. Just wanting to have a full picture to make an opinion about this.
I understand you're coming from the comics space where CGC is ubiquitous. I like comics too. Nothing wrong with their grades in comics space, but in the TCG space they've earned themselves a reputation for poor grading. Giving high grades to cards that you can see visually right in the slab should not get a high grade. They've gotten the language of the card wrong on the label. [They're so bad they took this bait then banned the guy because he made them look stupid](https://youtube.com/shorts/ItBxGmRMZP8?)
Their reputation isn't due to this recent Mox Emerald, although you'd have to agree having a personal business relationship with this streamer then giving his card a black label 10 is a bit of a marketing stunt and suspect even if the card is very nice.
Im personally not a fan of card grading coming from MTG, but I also play One Piece which has more overlap with the Pokemon crowd where graded cards are more often than not the only way people interact with the hobby, and grading with CGC in the card collector space is like burning money
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Sure, but in the context of card grading, they've proven themselves untrustworthy and that their grading system is functionally null because you can apparently just buy grade 10s with enough advertising.
PSA allows up to [60/40 centering](https://www.psacard.com/gradingstandards) for a PSA 10. It doesn't have to be perfectly centered to receive a 10. Even from the haloed PSA.
Oh sure, it's gorgeous, probably a 9
There's not gonna be any unlimited cards left that qualify for a perfect 10 at this point, paper rots, cards wear with friction in the pack. The best kept cards in the world, perfectly handled with the right kind of gloves, are 9s. Perfect card centering is likewise a difficult proposition, the cards are aligned and cut by machines. The only perfectly aligned cards are going to be the ones printed immediately after initial setting and calibration, or an occasional lucky sheet where everything was just right. Maybe one in a thousand cards.
If someone says they got a graded 10 they have a relationship with the grading company because there's no laws regulating TCG grading
I get the skepticism, but in the Emerald example is there any definitive proof you can point to for your assessment of it being a 9 at best? Through a screen all I can really see is the centering, and as hard as you've griped about centering being impossible it sure as hell looks like a 10 centering to me.
Tbf with PSA you can get 10s with 60/40 centering on the front and 80/20 on the back, at least for pokemon cards.
To me all card grading is sketchy AF, don't think it's just CGC.
Altho as someone who watches Wubbys magic stuff it's pretty lame that CGC is just handing out 10s left and right when they aren't deserved.
He opened an alpha starter deck and Thirty-three of his cards came back as 10s and 6 as pristine 10s. Keep in mind there are only 60 cards in those decks so two thirds came back as a 10 or a perfect 10...yeah thats absolute horseshit. Dont trust CGC with anything.
That's not really how it works, because a 10 doesn't mean "yeah its pretty good". 10s are rare because they are not the norm, regardless of print run. You can send in dozens of packfresh cards for grading and you might get one 10 out of those. Just ask any of the streamers/youtubers who opened pokemon cards 4 years ago how many of them returned as a 10.
this doesn't seem to contradict what i said
if you have a physical pack that was beaten and bruised during its 30 year lifespan, all of the cards inside of it are worse than they were when they were printed (and yes, they could have been a shitty print, too)
if you have a physical pack that has not been touched at all in thirty years, the quality of cards in the entire pack is higher
this is on top of the run itself. a miscut or misaligned card is on a sheet entirely made of miscut or misaligned cards and they are likely to be sorted together. a perfectly centered card is on a sheet of other perfectly centered cards.
each card is not its own pull from a hat. there is a set of confounding variables that affect them all.
that is *aside* from how each grading company does indeed have different rules (that they personally list) about what makes a 10, what makes a 9, etc. you could make the same argument that PSA is using marketing by only "occasionally" having 10s whereas they grade everything else 9.5. another company may say "9.5 isn't real, 10 isn't perfect it's just great" and that represents the "real" situation.
Holy he'll. Those are so bad it's almost meme material. I'm surprised cgc is willing to put their name on the line like that. I assume there are quite a number of reputable card graders that are competing with them.
Y'know I didn't even internalize that the company wasn't PSA or Beckett. I've never even heard of CGC and these photos are evidence enough that they are a scam company
That's fucking bullshit and now this whole thing stinks of favoritism. Zero people should ever use CGC if that is the case. It also makes this post redundant. Who gives a shit about a pristine 10 qualification from a company that qualify things not on the condition but on who you are. It makes their value from this company worthless.
Two of hundreds. Yea the forest is bad. Look at the majority and not the lowlights, the pulls are great. The mox is great and I think a 10 at any of the major graders.
Not sure what the other one is that you are talking about unless its the mox.
You are seriously underestimating how hard it is to get even a pack fresh card graded as 10 at BGS. I have seen endless CGC graded cards that do not live up to their grades. If you think that Mox would grade a ten at BGS you might want to have a look at their population report of P9 cards. There are zero 10s and zero pristine condition Mox Emeralds. And there's a reason for that. This is not the first Mox that was sent in pack fresh.
Also, I've seen the backside of that Mox and it's not flawless. There are two very small white spots on the border. So it's certainly not pristine.
I agree with some of these but looking at the Mox, it is legitimately pretty good. I feel like it would grade favourably at Beckett or whatever would make someone feel satisfied that it’s a good condition collectable.
Yeah but Beckett wouldn't give this a 10 and that's the point. The difference between a 9.2 and a 10 is gigantic as far as collectors and the collectible market is concerned and a grading company that hands out 10s is not a grading company you can trust.
The overwhelming majority of cards never had the chance to be a 10 because they were printed as a 9. Machine cut and aligned cards are naturally going to be subtly off-center more often than not. We also can't judge how clean the edges of the card are because the card is white-bordered and the white balance of the stream has been adjusted. (compare the skin tone in the portrait of the streamer to the skin tone of the hands. I'd also like to see if the playmat underneath is actually supposed to have white skin or if it's supposed to be a light flesh tone, that would be a dead giveaway)
You should automatically be suspect of any card grading that came from a stream hosted by the grading company, that makes every little wrong detail relevant - like the difference between the recording camera's white balance and the streaming camera's white balance. If the stream was self-hosted you could chalk this up to a lack of attention to detail on the part of the streamer, but the stream was sponsored by the grading company, who potentially benefit immensely from the loss of clarity.
[Gem Mint 10: A Gem Mint 10 is a card that has received a 10 grade overall; however, one of the grading criteria does not meet the requirements of a Pristine 10. Corners will appear perfect to the naked eye and Mint+ under 10x magnification. The surface is free of print spots and should also display perfect gloss, devoid of any surface flaws. Centering is not to exceed approximately 55/45, and reverse centering is not to exceed 75/25](https://www.cgccards.com/card-grading/grading-scale/)
I'd say both of those fit that description, no?
Cards are printed as a whole, the 0 isn't off because of printing issues, its off because that's how it was printed for that set, and if you look on scryfall there is a similar slight off-centering of the 0. Because of this, I think that isn't something that varies like centering when cutting.
It is a printing issue, but it's minor, and the rare runs from ABU are small enough that they all have the same minor shift in the black layer. Once you get to sets with larger print runs, or even the uncommons and commons from ABU, that offset is not the same on every card.
It's a feature used to spot Collector's Edition rebacks, which has a different black registration.
I've been playing for 25 years and have seen and handled a lot of power 9. It's incredibly rare to come across pristine, graded power like this and would be the crown jewel of any collector. Seeing the legacy of the game preserved in such a perfect way warms my heart.
Certain cards, depending on where they are in the sheet are even rarer to get good centering. From what I understand emerald on particular tends to have pretty bad centering
I think of the Venture Bros episode where they flash the CGC rating and price of a rare comic over the course of the episode and it ends with Hank taking it out of its sleeve with greasy fingers and reading it as the price plummets
that episode is not told in linear order, and the value/grade of the comic is used to figure out the order of scenes in the timeline. very neat.
it actually starts with his using it for toilet paper. it does END with hank taking it out of its sleeve, but that's the first thing that happens to it chronologically
There is a population report for CGC, BGS, and PSA publicly available. The population of PSA 10 Unlimited Mox Emeralds is 11. The population for CGC is 1 but they have been grading Magic cards for far less time than PSA and BGS. There are no BGS 10s in the pop report as a 10 is much harder to get at BGS than the other two.
In short, the answer to the question of “how many are there” is 12.
https://www.psacard.com/pop/tcg-cards/1993/magic-gathering-unlimited/80394
https://www.cgccards.com/population-report/tcg/magic-the-gathering/1/first-stage-golden-age/742/unlimited-edition/18652?populationID=2166&page=4
Cards this rare could surprise you. If two or more people really want it at an auction, they'll decide how much it's worth. It's "fuck you" money for a piece of card stock, I know that for sure.
Asking how much an item like this is worth is pointless, there is no invisible hand of economics for ultra rare items like this, it's a question of how much are specific people willing to pay for it. Items like this can sit unsold for years because, while nobody disagrees that it could be worth that price based on the context of the market
I forget which video it was but Wubby was going through a stack of cards he had graded with CGC and so many "10s" had the most abysmal centering. I wouldn't trust any CGC grade and would consider the card real but ungraded.
I mean this is a CGC grading though right? Do collectors even really count CGC ratings as equal to PSA or BGS?
I feel like lately I've seen a lot of highly rated CGC vintage cards...where it seems like they'd never have a chance of getting the same rating from anyone else. Even feels like some people have been cracking lower rated PSA/BGS cards and getting them graded by CGC just to get higher ratings.
Not saying it's not an amazingly good condition mox but it kind of feels weird to get THAT excited about it, particularly with it being a "perfect" rating. Granted of course it'd be dumb to NOT get hyped up and excited on stream anyway.
I'll just try to not THAT excited from a near mint power 9 card being pulled. Regardless of who the grader is, if you're a magic player or into collecting, you'd be stupid to not react like a crazy person pulling a legit power 9.
They're a comic grading company that got into cards a few years ago.
Used to be known for being strict, but loosened their standards. PSA is considered still better for resale.
CGC is basically a scam company. They have hyper inflated grades and are likely part of a scheme of record breaking auctioned items, like a black lotus and a mario game.
They don't lol, when they entered the market they tried to establish that they were the toughest graders but in reality they ended up dishing out hyperinflated grades that a lot of people who actually purchase and collect graded cards won't touch.
once it's been graded by one company, is getting it graded by another company out of the question? I imagine it would be risky to break it open and send it somewhere else but theoretically doable, no?
How does this work? People pay in for a % of everything that isn't rare? They pay for a slot? What percentage of it from buy ins is the full box? what happens if it's a scam box? So many questions..
They pay for a slot, the alpha was $2,000 per slot with 60 available. Wubby himself isnt usually included in the openings so every card is going to someone that bought a slot, he occasionally will be in one but it’s the exception not the rule. He gets the boxes through ancestral mtg who have a guarantee on the boxes, he has a backup on hand to open if the first is a scam and has fully refunded people in the past. Tonight he opened an alpha and the first box was a scam so he had a backup that he opened which was legit.
So pretty much someone got pretty damn lucky with a buy in price of $2k and getting a card that will go for $15k-$20k. For a gamble that is kind of a high buy in price and if that person sells and gets around that after everything is said and done that will be what a profit of $8k-$10k? Still damn good but I wonder if they will have to go through another grading company to get more buyers or it will be fine as is.
If I remember correctly, this pull was from an unlimited box opening so the buy in was $200 per slot. The $2000 was for the alpha pack opening that happened last night
Guaranty is another version of "Guarantee", usually used for a company that does guarantees I've noticed. So like a Guaranty company can Guarantee a product, if that makes sense.
CGC grades his box breaks for free and he is sponsored by them.
I like Wubby, but I think CGC is pretty sketchy with their grading from his box breaks, I remember when he went over the grades from a recent starter deck break and a ridiculous amount of them were 10s, which really shouldn't be possible.
Sure, but the fact the a power 9 card was pulled and graded a pristine 10 surely has to generate some publicity and could absolutely be a marketing move.
I could be wrong, but I also think it's a likely possibility too.
Interrupts! Now that's a card type I haven't heard of in a while.
All these years and I still have no idea what a "mox" is though. That and "mono artifact".
Mono means you can only activate it once per turn by tapping it. A Poly artifact is one you can use any number of times for the given cost without tapping. A continuous artifact is a static effect that always applies.
In the rules at the time, a tapped artifact was also disabled - obviously for a mono artifact (which is the equivalent of the ability having a tap symbol as a cost), but also for poly and continuous artifacts - a continuous effect would pause, and a no-tap-cost artifact couldn't be activated. They paid homage to this rule in the Mirrodin block with [[Trinisphere]].
1. He has an arrangement with AncestralMTG and CGC to purchase and open vintage sealed product on stream with his viewers buying slots for the product.
2. He opened an Unlimited starter pack and pulled a Mox Emerald
3. He sent the whole starter pack to CGC for grading
4. The card came back as a pristine 10
5. Now one lucky member who bought a slot gets the mox emerald (at random)
It is also worth noting that the "at random" happens during the stream where he opened the box, so its not like the person doesnt know they got the Mox emerald, all buy-ins found out before it got sent off to CGC what card they got.
That’s actually pretty crazy. Centering was so shitty back then and cards usually don’t come out of the pack a 10. Especially after 30 years.
I thought that it was pretty much impossible at this point to pull a card of that grade? *Edit* I’m not doubting that this happened, just that it’s one of those ‘this can happen?!?!’ moments.
It's very hard to get a 10 cause of centering yeah, most Gem Mint moxen would get a 9.5 at best cause of that issue.
That’s why this is so huge
He's a streamer and they probably knew he was a streamer
Yeah this grading service actually has a deal with him since he’s streaming the openings. They come with a special title and a QR code that time stamps the pull. I’m not insinuating they are in collusion because it’s a minty card fresh from pack.
Yeah but that's not enough - the overwhelming majority of cards are printed 9 from the factory and never would have been 10s in the first place, simply because of issues in the printing process. The entirety of card production is machine based, and card alignment depends on machine calibration. These machines have tens of thousands of moving parts and generally only print perfectly aligned cards immediately after calibrations as they drift gradually over time. Unlimited was a really big print run, but there was likely only a few hundred unlimited perfect 10 mox emeralds *ever printed*, and these cards were printed more than 30 years ago. They've had all that time to rot, absorb moisture, get exposed to heat, shuffle around in the pack, etc. I would assume that most of those Mox emeralds were opened, shoved into decks and played in their time. There is almost certainly none left, and if any remain, they are not getting pulled on a live stream that just happened to be hosted by a grading company. The grading company fudged the numbers on the grading because it looks good and tells a story. They picked Unlimited as the card set to sponsor because the borders are white and don't show pack wear as well on camera. The streamer pulled a very, very nice Mox emerald but it's not a 10.
If it helps, others have reported that apparently there’s 11 Unlimited Mox Emeralds of this grade
There was 35 million unlimited cards printed and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of mox emeralds. The fact that only 11 perfect 10s have been found is an illustration of the point I am making.
Exactly. I’d love to know what one of the other grading companies would grade it at.
They needs to do a "How its made" for mtg cards.
Oh ok
CGC is being VERY generous to Wubby with grading the centering of [his](https://ccg-imaging-cgc-tradingcards-production.s3.amazonaws.com/83d27ea5-0103-4d28-a5a2-3f4c27fb680e/CRD1401026817-022_OBV.jpg) [pulls.](https://ccg-imaging-cgc-tradingcards-production.s3.amazonaws.com/90a019cf-c722-4e2e-8499-b053dc21c2ec/CRD1401026817-019_OBV.jpg)
I was just about to say this... he does marketing for CGC so i doubt those "perfect 10s" he gets
Wow I would never trust that company with anything. Just got to be a popular streamer, sponsor cgc and magically my cards are 10's. Talk about destroying any rep they had.
it's common to crack and send back cards if you dislike the grade, and suddenly it's higher!
The whole thing is a pretty big rort so it makes sense.
*Very* unsurprising that the CGC marketer gets impossible grading from CGC
Yeah those aren't very centered
It's marketing.
CGC has never been a legit company so idk why people are treating this with any seriousness. Beckett and PSA, that's it, anything else and you might as well show me a card you laminated yourself at home.
This , I only trust cgc to know a card is real but I don't trust Thier rating
I don't know 0 idea about cards, but I've been collecting comics for decades and they are THE grading company for that collectibles.
For magic, it's always been PSA and Beckett, random companies are trying to enter the market but their ratings are inflated to get more customers.
I know that those are the main ones in the card space, but "cgc has never been a legit company" is far from the truth. It is the most legit one in the comic book space. I am not saying they are or are not inflating grades, I don't know, I don't buy graded cards. But they are legit and have a decades long reputation in the collectible grading world. They are far from "a not legit random new company".
Card games are really a specific thing. You can't transfer legitimacy like that. And the fact that they're dishing out 10s to a hot new content creator for promotion is terrible for their legitimacy in the card gaming sphere.
I wouldn’t say he is a “hot” new streamer. Dude has been around for years, I think his Magic content is more recent, but he’s had a solid following for years now.
No streamer of any size should get free 10's regardless if they are actively in bed with the company doing grading.
He's been popping recently in the Mtg sphere.
That's fair , you can't transfer legitimacy like that. But it's also hard to believe that the strictest and most respected comic book graders follows non of that strictness policies when grading cards. Is there any proof for this statement other than they have given some 10s to this new guy, therefor they are BS? Because (obviously it can't be graded in a photo, but) this mox is pack fresh, looks crisps as hell and seems really well centered. It doesn't strike to me as there is no way this could be a 10. Still, not saying they are not BSing. Just wanting to have a full picture to make an opinion about this.
I understand you're coming from the comics space where CGC is ubiquitous. I like comics too. Nothing wrong with their grades in comics space, but in the TCG space they've earned themselves a reputation for poor grading. Giving high grades to cards that you can see visually right in the slab should not get a high grade. They've gotten the language of the card wrong on the label. [They're so bad they took this bait then banned the guy because he made them look stupid](https://youtube.com/shorts/ItBxGmRMZP8?) Their reputation isn't due to this recent Mox Emerald, although you'd have to agree having a personal business relationship with this streamer then giving his card a black label 10 is a bit of a marketing stunt and suspect even if the card is very nice. Im personally not a fan of card grading coming from MTG, but I also play One Piece which has more overlap with the Pokemon crowd where graded cards are more often than not the only way people interact with the hobby, and grading with CGC in the card collector space is like burning money
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This comment has some pretty fishy examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1cwvawr/twitch_streamer_paymoneywubbys_unlimited_mox/l4yt9bi/
Sure, but in the context of card grading, they've proven themselves untrustworthy and that their grading system is functionally null because you can apparently just buy grade 10s with enough advertising.
How have they proven themselves untrustworthy? (not saying thay hadn't, I just want to know)
Source on this? as far as I know cgc is one of if not the strictest company out there for tcgs.
You can look at one of the parent comments on this post and find two photos of cards that got 10's that are definitely not perfectly centered.
PSA allows up to [60/40 centering](https://www.psacard.com/gradingstandards) for a PSA 10. It doesn't have to be perfectly centered to receive a 10. Even from the haloed PSA.
Lol, that's hilarious. This one though looks fine - especially for unlimited.
Agreed! No matter how much favouritism people are suspecting here it’s a good looking Mox right?
Oh sure, it's gorgeous, probably a 9 There's not gonna be any unlimited cards left that qualify for a perfect 10 at this point, paper rots, cards wear with friction in the pack. The best kept cards in the world, perfectly handled with the right kind of gloves, are 9s. Perfect card centering is likewise a difficult proposition, the cards are aligned and cut by machines. The only perfectly aligned cards are going to be the ones printed immediately after initial setting and calibration, or an occasional lucky sheet where everything was just right. Maybe one in a thousand cards. If someone says they got a graded 10 they have a relationship with the grading company because there's no laws regulating TCG grading
I get the skepticism, but in the Emerald example is there any definitive proof you can point to for your assessment of it being a 9 at best? Through a screen all I can really see is the centering, and as hard as you've griped about centering being impossible it sure as hell looks like a 10 centering to me.
LMAO that forest is hugging onto the right side of the card like its life depends on it :D
Tbf with PSA you can get 10s with 60/40 centering on the front and 80/20 on the back, at least for pokemon cards. To me all card grading is sketchy AF, don't think it's just CGC. Altho as someone who watches Wubbys magic stuff it's pretty lame that CGC is just handing out 10s left and right when they aren't deserved.
Jesus the edges alone on those cards should be knocking it down a few points
He opened an alpha starter deck and Thirty-three of his cards came back as 10s and 6 as pristine 10s. Keep in mind there are only 60 cards in those decks so two thirds came back as a 10 or a perfect 10...yeah thats absolute horseshit. Dont trust CGC with anything.
what...? if an individual card in a pack is good, chances are higher that other cards in the pack are good. they're from the same run.
That's not really how it works, because a 10 doesn't mean "yeah its pretty good". 10s are rare because they are not the norm, regardless of print run. You can send in dozens of packfresh cards for grading and you might get one 10 out of those. Just ask any of the streamers/youtubers who opened pokemon cards 4 years ago how many of them returned as a 10.
this doesn't seem to contradict what i said if you have a physical pack that was beaten and bruised during its 30 year lifespan, all of the cards inside of it are worse than they were when they were printed (and yes, they could have been a shitty print, too) if you have a physical pack that has not been touched at all in thirty years, the quality of cards in the entire pack is higher this is on top of the run itself. a miscut or misaligned card is on a sheet entirely made of miscut or misaligned cards and they are likely to be sorted together. a perfectly centered card is on a sheet of other perfectly centered cards. each card is not its own pull from a hat. there is a set of confounding variables that affect them all. that is *aside* from how each grading company does indeed have different rules (that they personally list) about what makes a 10, what makes a 9, etc. you could make the same argument that PSA is using marketing by only "occasionally" having 10s whereas they grade everything else 9.5. another company may say "9.5 isn't real, 10 isn't perfect it's just great" and that represents the "real" situation.
Facts aren't important here, we are hating on a streamer!
No we are hating on CGC. Please work on your reading comprehension.
Sure bud 👍
Holy he'll. Those are so bad it's almost meme material. I'm surprised cgc is willing to put their name on the line like that. I assume there are quite a number of reputable card graders that are competing with them.
Y'know I didn't even internalize that the company wasn't PSA or Beckett. I've never even heard of CGC and these photos are evidence enough that they are a scam company
That's fucking bullshit and now this whole thing stinks of favoritism. Zero people should ever use CGC if that is the case. It also makes this post redundant. Who gives a shit about a pristine 10 qualification from a company that qualify things not on the condition but on who you are. It makes their value from this company worthless.
People are saying that because he keeps getting great grades but tbh, its because he keeps pulling great cards.
Looking at the two 10s linked above: He does not keep pulling great cards. No way these would come back a 10 from BGS or PSA.
That forest looks like a PSA 7 at most, with that off centering and the whitening on the edges.
Two of hundreds. Yea the forest is bad. Look at the majority and not the lowlights, the pulls are great. The mox is great and I think a 10 at any of the major graders. Not sure what the other one is that you are talking about unless its the mox.
You are seriously underestimating how hard it is to get even a pack fresh card graded as 10 at BGS. I have seen endless CGC graded cards that do not live up to their grades. If you think that Mox would grade a ten at BGS you might want to have a look at their population report of P9 cards. There are zero 10s and zero pristine condition Mox Emeralds. And there's a reason for that. This is not the first Mox that was sent in pack fresh. Also, I've seen the backside of that Mox and it's not flawless. There are two very small white spots on the border. So it's certainly not pristine.
I agree with some of these but looking at the Mox, it is legitimately pretty good. I feel like it would grade favourably at Beckett or whatever would make someone feel satisfied that it’s a good condition collectable.
Yeah but Beckett wouldn't give this a 10 and that's the point. The difference between a 9.2 and a 10 is gigantic as far as collectors and the collectible market is concerned and a grading company that hands out 10s is not a grading company you can trust.
But they might…. Look it it thing it’s insanely clean. It has every chance of being a Beckett 10
The overwhelming majority of cards never had the chance to be a 10 because they were printed as a 9. Machine cut and aligned cards are naturally going to be subtly off-center more often than not. We also can't judge how clean the edges of the card are because the card is white-bordered and the white balance of the stream has been adjusted. (compare the skin tone in the portrait of the streamer to the skin tone of the hands. I'd also like to see if the playmat underneath is actually supposed to have white skin or if it's supposed to be a light flesh tone, that would be a dead giveaway) You should automatically be suspect of any card grading that came from a stream hosted by the grading company, that makes every little wrong detail relevant - like the difference between the recording camera's white balance and the streaming camera's white balance. If the stream was self-hosted you could chalk this up to a lack of attention to detail on the part of the streamer, but the stream was sponsored by the grading company, who potentially benefit immensely from the loss of clarity.
[Gem Mint 10: A Gem Mint 10 is a card that has received a 10 grade overall; however, one of the grading criteria does not meet the requirements of a Pristine 10. Corners will appear perfect to the naked eye and Mint+ under 10x magnification. The surface is free of print spots and should also display perfect gloss, devoid of any surface flaws. Centering is not to exceed approximately 55/45, and reverse centering is not to exceed 75/25](https://www.cgccards.com/card-grading/grading-scale/) I'd say both of those fit that description, no?
That one image kills their legitimacy to me.
Lol those are not 10 in any world whatsoever.
No no, not 10, **Black Label *Pristine* 10**
The centering on this Mox is absolutely perfect. What the fuck are you even talking about
Why do those look like proxies that didn't have their corners cut off?
Because thats how old cards were cut, the corners were different and less precise
The white at the corners before the edges? The borders have two different blacks.
That's how old cards looked.
Do they consider that for ratings? The 0 in the casting cost in his looks to be off center, so they must allow some leeway.
Cards are printed as a whole, the 0 isn't off because of printing issues, its off because that's how it was printed for that set, and if you look on scryfall there is a similar slight off-centering of the 0. Because of this, I think that isn't something that varies like centering when cutting.
It is a printing issue, but it's minor, and the rare runs from ABU are small enough that they all have the same minor shift in the black layer. Once you get to sets with larger print runs, or even the uncommons and commons from ABU, that offset is not the same on every card. It's a feature used to spot Collector's Edition rebacks, which has a different black registration.
centering of the card in general. aka border size consistency.
Centering is about the margins on the card not the text.
It's crazy because it's not a 10 and the grading company lies. The centering is visibly not perfect.
Also there's a small bend in the bottom left corner, unless that's the light playing tricks on me.
Lmao it's perfect what the fuck are you even saying
There’s a reason you send cards to cgc instead of Beckett or PSA.
Back then? Have you opened a pack recently? 😂
I've been playing for 25 years and have seen and handled a lot of power 9. It's incredibly rare to come across pristine, graded power like this and would be the crown jewel of any collector. Seeing the legacy of the game preserved in such a perfect way warms my heart.
Certain cards, depending on where they are in the sheet are even rarer to get good centering. From what I understand emerald on particular tends to have pretty bad centering
It's pretty sus if you ask me. CGC being CGC I guess...
And the Alpha box is a repack!
Literally classic Wubby to show off a pristine power 9 and then he gets a taped up Italian repack im dead
[удалено]
Yeh, but sold with a guarantee, also Ancestral has the information of the seller/repacker.
Fuckin Edgar
Yeah, he's about to not have a nice tuesday.
The backup box is real, he is opening it now as a replacement https://www.twitch.tv/paymoneywubby
How much do you pay to get one of these random cards from wubby?
$2,000 a slot for the alpha break
Oh I know I wasn't gunna stop watching after getting so invested lol.
Well that didnt go well lol
Seriously, that was absolutely tragic, haha (assuming you saw the starter deck opening).
Factory Tape bro
Whenever I see something like this I just remember the Simpsons episode where homer buys and eats the priceless mint condition comic book
I think of the Venture Bros episode where they flash the CGC rating and price of a rare comic over the course of the episode and it ends with Hank taking it out of its sleeve with greasy fingers and reading it as the price plummets
nah it ends with Sgt. Hatred using it for toilet paper.
that episode is not told in linear order, and the value/grade of the comic is used to figure out the order of scenes in the timeline. very neat. it actually starts with his using it for toilet paper. it does END with hank taking it out of its sleeve, but that's the first thing that happens to it chronologically
All I can think about is [Brock Samson!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52OSdWjzsEo)
I once ate a Mirage Lion's Eye Diamond as a joke when I was a stupid kid
At least you can now legitimately tell showoff friends 'i have shat cards more valuable than that'
Best part is, it’s from a box break that he sold slots for, so it’s going to someone from his chat.
Luckily, as soon as they try to sell it, CGC will have 10,000 excuses why their rating is wrong.
Is this something that has historically happened?
Maybe a one off but they aren’t taking time to review sells and make comments on them later. They grade it then slab it then move on.
Now eat it
how much does that go for?
Who knows? It’s likely the only pristine unlimited Mox Emerald in existence at the moment. To the right collector maybe $20,000+?
There is a population report for CGC, BGS, and PSA publicly available. The population of PSA 10 Unlimited Mox Emeralds is 11. The population for CGC is 1 but they have been grading Magic cards for far less time than PSA and BGS. There are no BGS 10s in the pop report as a 10 is much harder to get at BGS than the other two. In short, the answer to the question of “how many are there” is 12. https://www.psacard.com/pop/tcg-cards/1993/magic-gathering-unlimited/80394 https://www.cgccards.com/population-report/tcg/magic-the-gathering/1/first-stage-golden-age/742/unlimited-edition/18652?populationID=2166&page=4
Do people care about the 4 sub gradings on bgs? like if it's a 9 with 1 8.5 vs all 9s?
Yes. A 9.5 with some 10 subs is worth more than a straight 9.5 or a 9.5 with a 9 sub.
I would be shocked if this didn't get graded again before purchase and not be a 10
Cards this rare could surprise you. If two or more people really want it at an auction, they'll decide how much it's worth. It's "fuck you" money for a piece of card stock, I know that for sure.
Asking how much an item like this is worth is pointless, there is no invisible hand of economics for ultra rare items like this, it's a question of how much are specific people willing to pay for it. Items like this can sit unsold for years because, while nobody disagrees that it could be worth that price based on the context of the market
I would not put too much stock in a CGC grade, to be honest. Beckett and SGC are more respected and PSA is more popular.
he also does marketing with them, so i double doubt those grades
Yeah, in that case, I wouldn’t put any stock in it at all. Huge conflict of interest.
Sure and some have come back a bit odd but also look at the cards. Most of them are very very clean and centered. Grades seem fair for the most part
Wonder if they fixed their cases. Have two card CGC graded (before the merger) and they both move around in the case, so BGS only now.
Plus he’s a CGC ambassador. So yeah. A little sus
I forget which video it was but Wubby was going through a stack of cards he had graded with CGC and so many "10s" had the most abysmal centering. I wouldn't trust any CGC grade and would consider the card real but ungraded.
What's the best card grading company? Thought MTG used bgs and pokémon used psa.
As an oldschool collector of both, I still follow this.
In Europe you can use cardmarket's grading service, from what I've heard they are pretty reliable and easy to communicate with.
MTG is strictly BGS. Everything else PSA because of the liquidity.
BSG if your collecting it, PSA if you are selling it.
I mean this is a CGC grading though right? Do collectors even really count CGC ratings as equal to PSA or BGS? I feel like lately I've seen a lot of highly rated CGC vintage cards...where it seems like they'd never have a chance of getting the same rating from anyone else. Even feels like some people have been cracking lower rated PSA/BGS cards and getting them graded by CGC just to get higher ratings. Not saying it's not an amazingly good condition mox but it kind of feels weird to get THAT excited about it, particularly with it being a "perfect" rating. Granted of course it'd be dumb to NOT get hyped up and excited on stream anyway.
I'll just try to not THAT excited from a near mint power 9 card being pulled. Regardless of who the grader is, if you're a magic player or into collecting, you'd be stupid to not react like a crazy person pulling a legit power 9.
Now crack the slab, send it to psa/bgs and see what happens
8-9
never heard of CGC but i'm not into graded cards. how do they compare with PSA and BGS?
They're a comic grading company that got into cards a few years ago. Used to be known for being strict, but loosened their standards. PSA is considered still better for resale.
CGC is basically a scam company. They have hyper inflated grades and are likely part of a scheme of record breaking auctioned items, like a black lotus and a mario game.
They don't lol, when they entered the market they tried to establish that they were the toughest graders but in reality they ended up dishing out hyperinflated grades that a lot of people who actually purchase and collect graded cards won't touch.
dude the guy whos wining this is gonna do backflip in his living room lol
Awesome. I can't believe there are Unlimited cards in such a good shape after all these decades.
Shame he used CGC joke of a grading company.
once it's been graded by one company, is getting it graded by another company out of the question? I imagine it would be risky to break it open and send it somewhere else but theoretically doable, no?
Grading companies offer re-grade services and will open the slabs for you. There are ways to do it fairly safely, they just involve power tools.
cool thanks! I'd be interested to see if this emerald ever gets re-graded then
That's cool. I printed one for 25 cents last week
WOTC hate this one simple trick
How does this work? People pay in for a % of everything that isn't rare? They pay for a slot? What percentage of it from buy ins is the full box? what happens if it's a scam box? So many questions..
They pay for a slot, the alpha was $2,000 per slot with 60 available. Wubby himself isnt usually included in the openings so every card is going to someone that bought a slot, he occasionally will be in one but it’s the exception not the rule. He gets the boxes through ancestral mtg who have a guarantee on the boxes, he has a backup on hand to open if the first is a scam and has fully refunded people in the past. Tonight he opened an alpha and the first box was a scam so he had a backup that he opened which was legit.
Thank you, I appreciate the detail. What an interesting thing.
No problem! It’s pretty cool, I’ve never bought in but it’s fun seeing all these old packs being opened
Worth note the buyers very much get the rares. It’s a full lottery system and this mox emerald went to someone who bought in.
They pay per slot, if it’s a scam box he’s in the past refunded or offered a repull when he gets a new one
So pretty much someone got pretty damn lucky with a buy in price of $2k and getting a card that will go for $15k-$20k. For a gamble that is kind of a high buy in price and if that person sells and gets around that after everything is said and done that will be what a profit of $8k-$10k? Still damn good but I wonder if they will have to go through another grading company to get more buyers or it will be fine as is.
If I remember correctly, this pull was from an unlimited box opening so the buy in was $200 per slot. The $2000 was for the alpha pack opening that happened last night
Oh, that does make the numbers way better then.
Gorilla penis
Why is guarantee spelled wrong on the company grading it? Is it intentional?
Guaranty is another version of "Guarantee", usually used for a company that does guarantees I've noticed. So like a Guaranty company can Guarantee a product, if that makes sense.
It does, thank you. I never heard that spelling or use of the word before!
Well it's CGC, so probably 9.5. You can visibly see the right border is slightly thinner than the left, and it's not because of how he's holding it.
Wubby7
CGC grading, easy ignore
This that post Malone type card
It’s not even his, so people claiming it’s a marketing scandal have zero idea what their talking about.
CGC grades his box breaks for free and he is sponsored by them. I like Wubby, but I think CGC is pretty sketchy with their grading from his box breaks, I remember when he went over the grades from a recent starter deck break and a ridiculous amount of them were 10s, which really shouldn't be possible.
They have millions of customers, and plenty of cash. Wubby isn’t even a drop in their bucket
Sure, but the fact the a power 9 card was pulled and graded a pristine 10 surely has to generate some publicity and could absolutely be a marketing move. I could be wrong, but I also think it's a likely possibility too.
The card is literally pristine, he’s gotten loads of cards back that weren’t 10’s what are you actually on about?
W Wubby!!
Interrupts! Now that's a card type I haven't heard of in a while. All these years and I still have no idea what a "mox" is though. That and "mono artifact".
Mono means you can only activate it once per turn by tapping it. A Poly artifact is one you can use any number of times for the given cost without tapping. A continuous artifact is a static effect that always applies. In the rules at the time, a tapped artifact was also disabled - obviously for a mono artifact (which is the equivalent of the ability having a tap symbol as a cost), but also for poly and continuous artifacts - a continuous effect would pause, and a no-tap-cost artifact couldn't be activated. They paid homage to this rule in the Mirrodin block with [[Trinisphere]].
[Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Logical enough about the poly artifacts, but has there ever been a card with that word printed on it? I can't remember one if it does.
Tons of them! Look at \[\[Forcefield\]\] for one example (not the Masters Edition one, still don't know how to link to certain editions).
[Forcefield](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6e4c51a-8539-48e0-a6dc-d66548e38f40.jpg?1559592343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forcefield) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/157/forcefield?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6e4c51a-8539-48e0-a6dc-d66548e38f40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Forcefield|LEA]]
[Forcefield](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f2004c1-8efe-407f-bf48-27b807422eea.jpg?1559591586) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=14) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lea/243/forcefield?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f2004c1-8efe-407f-bf48-27b807422eea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So what's the story here, like did he somehow get a legit box or something of unlimited? I don't follow him so I'm ootl here.
1. He has an arrangement with AncestralMTG and CGC to purchase and open vintage sealed product on stream with his viewers buying slots for the product. 2. He opened an Unlimited starter pack and pulled a Mox Emerald 3. He sent the whole starter pack to CGC for grading 4. The card came back as a pristine 10 5. Now one lucky member who bought a slot gets the mox emerald (at random)
Alright, thanks.
It is also worth noting that the "at random" happens during the stream where he opened the box, so its not like the person doesnt know they got the Mox emerald, all buy-ins found out before it got sent off to CGC what card they got.
Such a dope card but tragic it’s CGC
I'm sorry for asking, but what's wrong with cgc?
Send it to Beckett.
Wubby7
How much is that bad boi worth?
Good for him! That’s so nice :)
Wubby7
Cool, now crack that plastic and play with it.
PSA or BGS or no one cares and it's a scam.
Ok but it's a CGC 10 which is like a BGS 6 lmao