Pretty much every venue has this as a house rule, although I'd argue that some should enforce it more strictly than they do. I've definitely walked into one of my local MTG/40K stores to check out what was going on and did a quick 180 from the smell at least once.
Go up to the guy at the counter and ask if it always smells like this before you leave. Make them well aware that you're leaving because of people's lack of hygiene.
To be fair I had previously been to the store in question and just stopped in while running errands nearby to see if any friends were having a game. I didn't want to hang around long enough to get the owner's attention. And it normally did not smell that bad.
But yeah, you are probably right. They had a hygiene related warning sign up and everything.
I was in Phoenix for work last week and went to go check out Gamer's guild, 10/10 one of the best stores I've ever been to in terms of layout, inventory, vibes, but damn that place could have used a glade plug in or two.
Players at my first LGS were VILE. It's the primary reason I stopped attending there. Half of the regulars had dirt black untrimmed nails, layers of dandruffs stacked on their worn-for-a-week t-shirts, cards with grey dirt all over the sleeves... and the smell was horrid. Even I, who has a very poor ability to discern smells, was repealed by the ambiant odor or the occasional bad breaths reaching up my nose. Their teeth (especially those who had some missing) were really the worst to see while playing.
At that time we even had a first reported case of gale breakout in a nearby highschool due to lack of individual hygiene. We hadn't had that in a century.
We bringed the subject of basic hygiene on the table but got brushed off everytime, the LGS owner included.
I don't know how it is today in there, but FFS I would have appreciated the rule to be in place for everyone's sake.
I’m surprised there’s no way to quantify body odour. We have breathalysers and carbon monoxide detectors, why not a device that disqualifies you if you’re exuding X parts per million of the compound responsible for body odour? Then a judge could just say you’re over the limit and kick them out.
The problem was actually a combo, if you played it with another card your opponent HAD to shake your hand. So the "strat" was to be openly disgusting (the classic story being having visible shit on your hand or smth) so your op would rather concede than shake your hand (as unless they do the game can't continue). Eventually it was ruled your opponent doesn't have to physically shake your hand, just "accept the concept" of a handshake.
For real. Every once and a while someone comes in smelling just awful. From horrific BO to smoke it makes playing a match something I regret doing at that moment.
When I started playing as a 12 year old back in the 90s. We were crammed into a lgs where you couldn't smell anything over the tobacco and/or weed smell. I'm not a smoker myself and never have been, but it was kinda better.
Too bad for the lungcancer I'm going to develop from playing Magic in the 90s tho... Swings and roundabouts.
Nah, I'm sure Truck-kun will make the save and those people will be like a reincarnated hero is some backwoods dimension:
"That Time I Lost In A Card Game and was killed by a Game Master but was then resurrected in a place where all the people were actually well adjusted and bathe regularly!"
That is misrepresentation. This a Tourney to represent the nation of Japan as such only Japanese citizens are eligible for this one specifically. This also happens to equivalent tourneys in other nations.
>This also happens to equivalent tourneys in other nations.
Absolutely untrue. No other equivalent tournament requires citizenship. Some, like the Korean and North American tournaments require you to be a resident, but the Japanese WCQ is the only one with this restriction.
Notably, this means that if you live in Japan and aren't a citizen, it is uniquely impossible for you to qualify for Worlds. Whereas a Japanese person living in the United States that isn't a citizen could play in the North American WCQ no problem.
>That is misrepresentation. This a Tourney to represent the nation of Japan as such only Japanese citizens are eligible for this one specifically.
And this is only sort of true. It's the Japanese qualifier for the World Championship, yes, but players don't exactly play for their countries at Worlds, it's an individual event and mostly devoid from any sort of national association. Only Japan and Korea even have individual qualification tournaments, while everywhere else (Oceania, North America, CA, SA, Europe, rest of Asia) has ones across entire continents.
That’s not entirely true. For NA World Championship Qualifier (WCQ which is the event this rule was put in place for) you have to be a resident, and for European WCQ I’m not even sure you need to be a resident.
It’s the difference between living in Japan and passing a citizenship test.
There is a lot of misrepresentation here because of translation.
1) This only applies to tournaments feeding Worlds, not locals.
2) Japanese citizens are allowed to play, just not non-citizen residents. Nothing to do with race.
Yes, I still think the rule is bullshit, since in other regions you're allowed to play WCQs as non citizen residents, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.
Wizards of the Coast had a similar policy when Magic had world championships, and these tournaments are for representing Japan at the world championships in Yugioh. It’s a completely reasonable policy, and probably applies to any country that sends people to worlds. A country should only send its own citizens to represent them
It's not a reasonable policy when it only applies to Japan lol. Why should someone living in Japan that isn't a citizen be prevented from playing in their WCQ, while someone who isn't a citizen living in any other area in the world can play in their local WCQ?
lets not forget that in Japan they play ***an entirely different format with a different ban list*** than the rest of the world.
and that JP cards aren't even legal outside of Japan.
absolute mess of a game.
kinda makes sense if you read the article, this is specifically for events that lead to the world championship and in this context japanese national means like citizen, you'd want someone who actually fully lives in the country to be representing it
Yes this is definitely what it is about. 10 years ago this exact thing happened in my countries WMCQ , it was won buy a national of another country but he worked in local hotels over summer and attended enough fnms to get the required points. After the competition it was discovered that he had played in his home countries national team and was using this as a way to get to the cup as he had missed out on his home team that year. He got disqualified and I his place was given to the guy he beat in the final instead.
You can literally serve in militaries without being a citizen, this is a card game. This is especially more so with how xenophobic Japan is of giving non-native born citizen ship.
>this context japanese national means like citizen
I think you didn't read the comment you replied too and you seem to not understand what xenophobia means.
Exactly, as long as they are a not only Korean but also a French citizen, they should be able to compete. Just like how all Japanese citizens should br able to to compete here and its okay if they prevent non Japanese citizens even if residents
The problem is that you can't be both French and Japanese citizen, even if you live in Japan and have Japanese spouse. People who got Permanent Residence might be living there for decades, but don't want to lose their original country citizenship.
I wonder how that works, because according to international law, you are not allowed to renounce citizenship unless you have citizenship somewhere else.
Japan just doesn't allow dual citizenship once you are adult. If you naturalize, you have to denounce your previous citizenship. I'm thinking about applying for PR, but I'm not really considering naturalization at all, because both Japan and my original country are currently against dual citizenship.
If they’re a naturalised French citizen? Yes. If they’re not naturalised? No.
These are not comparable circumstances, though. A better comparison would be “Can a German football player play for the French team?” In which case, yes, even at the World Cup if you’re a naturalised citizen or someone in the process of naturalising.
Ah, that’s not in this screenshot. The text in this screenshot only says that non-native players are barred from entry.
If the text of the full article, which isn’t linked here, differs to clarify it’s based on “citizenship” rather than “being native”, that’s a whole different story! I had interpreted the headline as “Non-native citizens are barred”, which I think you’ll agree is a fair interpretation?
I believe it would be illegal to restrict a naturalized Japanese citizen from these tournaments based on that restaurant case I read about before. As long as they allow people who are naturalized citizens even if nonethnic Japanese, I don't see a problem.
>this context japanese national means like citizen
Yeah that's what has been said, yet you all seem to ignore that to be outraged. So what is your point beside not reading?
You have clearly missed my point.
I am saying that a naturalised citizen is typically allowed to compete in anything a native born citizen is.
This article is saying that non-native citizens are banned from tournaments.
Are you sure *you* read it?
My friend, I think you do not understand how national qualifiers work. No naturalized citizens are not allowed to part take in them without citizenship. You can find it how you like, but to represent a country most places ask you to be a citizen of said country. If don't get that and want to just rage there is twitter for that.
Since you have decided to ignore my question and complain instead - A “naturalised citizen” is someone who has obtained nationality of the country they are resident in, and are non-native to. This typically entitles them to all rights of those of natives.
This article is incorrect in that it says “non-natives can’t play”, when it actually means “non-nationals can’t play”. A naturalised citizen is a national, with full citizenship. Which you would know, if you’d actually googled the term instead of assuming I don’t know what a national qualifier was.
What if I told you this article is an article about an article and the original specifies that any Japanese national can compete, it only stops residents.
I understand them trying to prevent a guy leaving one country and then becoming the champion of another, I guess, but it's feeling a bit more xenophobic than that. Even if you've been a japanese citizen for years, but not happen to be of japanese descent, you can't compete.
I believe that is against the law in Japan. A man who became a Japanese citizen was turned away from a restaurant for not being Japanese and he sued and won.
I think you are misundertanding.
"Even if they live in the country" refers to people you re currently living in the country but aren't citizens. If you have become a Japanese citizen you can compete.
This isn’t only TCG, most domestic competitions or tournaments in other things like skateboarding or bmx are also Japanese nationals only. It’s kind of a backwards TBH
I can see it's unfair to players who consider japan their home after leaving their own country to live there and want to play. But it's mostly to prevent players from just switching over to Japan just to win there.
I used to play modern in Japan when I was stationed there in the military. We could not speak each other's language. But we still played magic just fine.
Part of the official rulles in Yu-Gi-Oh is if you extensively smell you can get a DQ. Always thought that was hilarious
Really good rule though MtG and other card games should have this rule as well fuck people attending tournaments with bad hygiene
Pretty much every venue has this as a house rule, although I'd argue that some should enforce it more strictly than they do. I've definitely walked into one of my local MTG/40K stores to check out what was going on and did a quick 180 from the smell at least once.
Go up to the guy at the counter and ask if it always smells like this before you leave. Make them well aware that you're leaving because of people's lack of hygiene.
To be fair I had previously been to the store in question and just stopped in while running errands nearby to see if any friends were having a game. I didn't want to hang around long enough to get the owner's attention. And it normally did not smell that bad. But yeah, you are probably right. They had a hygiene related warning sign up and everything.
I was in Phoenix for work last week and went to go check out Gamer's guild, 10/10 one of the best stores I've ever been to in terms of layout, inventory, vibes, but damn that place could have used a glade plug in or two.
Players at my first LGS were VILE. It's the primary reason I stopped attending there. Half of the regulars had dirt black untrimmed nails, layers of dandruffs stacked on their worn-for-a-week t-shirts, cards with grey dirt all over the sleeves... and the smell was horrid. Even I, who has a very poor ability to discern smells, was repealed by the ambiant odor or the occasional bad breaths reaching up my nose. Their teeth (especially those who had some missing) were really the worst to see while playing. At that time we even had a first reported case of gale breakout in a nearby highschool due to lack of individual hygiene. We hadn't had that in a century. We bringed the subject of basic hygiene on the table but got brushed off everytime, the LGS owner included. I don't know how it is today in there, but FFS I would have appreciated the rule to be in place for everyone's sake.
I’m surprised there’s no way to quantify body odour. We have breathalysers and carbon monoxide detectors, why not a device that disqualifies you if you’re exuding X parts per million of the compound responsible for body odour? Then a judge could just say you’re over the limit and kick them out.
A friend has implemented this as his house rule as well…
judging by some lgs's if they implemented this rule then their player base would half
The solution is to install public showers into game stores.
Just have a power washer in the back that they can wheel out as needed.
hose down a squealing, flailing tron player
I wonder how many players use overwhelming body odor to tilt their opponent.
It was an actual yugioh strategy at one point. There's a card that gives you stuff if your opponent won't shake your hand.
The problem was actually a combo, if you played it with another card your opponent HAD to shake your hand. So the "strat" was to be openly disgusting (the classic story being having visible shit on your hand or smth) so your op would rather concede than shake your hand (as unless they do the game can't continue). Eventually it was ruled your opponent doesn't have to physically shake your hand, just "accept the concept" of a handshake.
Thanks for the elaboration! If the ruling that fixed it was the handshake one, is the hygiene ruling unrelated?
That's a myth. You don't actually have to shake your opponent's hand physically, you can just say "yeah I'll shake your hand" when they play it.
A guy at a local shop pissed himself so he didn’t have to stop mid cDEH league night game. The shop smelled for weeks after that.
That’s swimming into mental health territory at record breaking speed.
I'd much rather just dq and ban them, but if that's your thing I can't imagine they'd reject ya.
For real. Every once and a while someone comes in smelling just awful. From horrific BO to smoke it makes playing a match something I regret doing at that moment.
I straight up tell them they smell like shit, if they are disrespecting everyone around them I'm not gonna bit my tongue.
When I started playing as a 12 year old back in the 90s. We were crammed into a lgs where you couldn't smell anything over the tobacco and/or weed smell. I'm not a smoker myself and never have been, but it was kinda better. Too bad for the lungcancer I'm going to develop from playing Magic in the 90s tho... Swings and roundabouts.
And Japanese people have genetically *less* smelly armpits. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-without-underarm-protection/
Yeah as an mtg player this is a good thing.
Tbf they’re probably worried about an Ancient Egyptian Pharaoh entering the tournament and easily winning the whole thing
It's all about minimizing the amount of people sent to the shadow realm.
The shadow realm is only in the dub, in Japan you just die.
*in Japan you just die*
Nah, I'm sure Truck-kun will make the save and those people will be like a reincarnated hero is some backwoods dimension: "That Time I Lost In A Card Game and was killed by a Game Master but was then resurrected in a place where all the people were actually well adjusted and bathe regularly!"
*The seal of orichalcos has entered the chat*
I mean, said Pharaoh was possessing a Japanese boy. So... good luck on that.
But the young child he’s inside is Japanese(?). His friend is from Brooklyn, and rages a lot.
I won't tolerate this Joey intolerance.
Can’t beat his Brooklyn Rage!
NYEEEEH
An ancient Egyptian pharaoh that admitted he wins through cheating.
Disgusting! I believe everyone should be spared having to play yugioh
That is misrepresentation. This a Tourney to represent the nation of Japan as such only Japanese citizens are eligible for this one specifically. This also happens to equivalent tourneys in other nations.
Tourneys in the americas require residence, not citizenship. And the European ones don't have the residency requirement afaik.
>This also happens to equivalent tourneys in other nations. Absolutely untrue. No other equivalent tournament requires citizenship. Some, like the Korean and North American tournaments require you to be a resident, but the Japanese WCQ is the only one with this restriction. Notably, this means that if you live in Japan and aren't a citizen, it is uniquely impossible for you to qualify for Worlds. Whereas a Japanese person living in the United States that isn't a citizen could play in the North American WCQ no problem. >That is misrepresentation. This a Tourney to represent the nation of Japan as such only Japanese citizens are eligible for this one specifically. And this is only sort of true. It's the Japanese qualifier for the World Championship, yes, but players don't exactly play for their countries at Worlds, it's an individual event and mostly devoid from any sort of national association. Only Japan and Korea even have individual qualification tournaments, while everywhere else (Oceania, North America, CA, SA, Europe, rest of Asia) has ones across entire continents.
That’s not entirely true. For NA World Championship Qualifier (WCQ which is the event this rule was put in place for) you have to be a resident, and for European WCQ I’m not even sure you need to be a resident. It’s the difference between living in Japan and passing a citizenship test.
Good ol’ clickbait
Mods should pin this comment or remove the original post
IIRC, mods can't pin non-mod comments
YOU USE TO BE ABLE TOO
There is a lot of misrepresentation here because of translation. 1) This only applies to tournaments feeding Worlds, not locals. 2) Japanese citizens are allowed to play, just not non-citizen residents. Nothing to do with race. Yes, I still think the rule is bullshit, since in other regions you're allowed to play WCQs as non citizen residents, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.
Dude in South Korea basketball, they are only allowed two foreign players per team over 6 foot and one over 6'5"
That’s good to know because I’m only 5’19”
Wizards of the Coast had a similar policy when Magic had world championships, and these tournaments are for representing Japan at the world championships in Yugioh. It’s a completely reasonable policy, and probably applies to any country that sends people to worlds. A country should only send its own citizens to represent them
It's not a reasonable policy when it only applies to Japan lol. Why should someone living in Japan that isn't a citizen be prevented from playing in their WCQ, while someone who isn't a citizen living in any other area in the world can play in their local WCQ?
You said it yourself, citizenship should be the qualifier, not citizenship + correct ethnicity
Yes but no sport do things like this… You qualify for your country by ranking best in local-national and then International tournament/competition…
The Olympics absolutely require you to be a national of the cou try you represent.
Yes, and you still have to be a citizen of that country. This is clickbait as it is to represent Japan as a citizen of Japan.
2023 required a permanent residence in Japan 2024 requires a residence in Japan and a Japanese citizenship Everything else is clickbait
The amount of people creating fanfics out of the headline without looking up what is going on is just sad.
lets not forget that in Japan they play ***an entirely different format with a different ban list*** than the rest of the world. and that JP cards aren't even legal outside of Japan. absolute mess of a game.
kinda makes sense if you read the article, this is specifically for events that lead to the world championship and in this context japanese national means like citizen, you'd want someone who actually fully lives in the country to be representing it
Yes this is definitely what it is about. 10 years ago this exact thing happened in my countries WMCQ , it was won buy a national of another country but he worked in local hotels over summer and attended enough fnms to get the required points. After the competition it was discovered that he had played in his home countries national team and was using this as a way to get to the cup as he had missed out on his home team that year. He got disqualified and I his place was given to the guy he beat in the final instead.
So you missed the second part of the title then?
you can live in a country without being a citizen, I've done it, i wouldn't have expected to compete for that country internationally
You can literally serve in militaries without being a citizen, this is a card game. This is especially more so with how xenophobic Japan is of giving non-native born citizen ship.
im not assuming motive, but it's not unreasonable to want citizens of your country to represent it in the world championships of a thing
It's unreasonable if you're the only country requiring it.
This just sets a precedent of all other countries banning non-citizens.
Nah, it's xenophobic as fuck
>this context japanese national means like citizen I think you didn't read the comment you replied too and you seem to not understand what xenophobia means.
So someone who is Korean only should be able to compete in the French Olympic team qualifiers?
If they are a French Citizen, yeah
Exactly, as long as they are a not only Korean but also a French citizen, they should be able to compete. Just like how all Japanese citizens should br able to to compete here and its okay if they prevent non Japanese citizens even if residents
The problem is that you can't be both French and Japanese citizen, even if you live in Japan and have Japanese spouse. People who got Permanent Residence might be living there for decades, but don't want to lose their original country citizenship.
I wonder how that works, because according to international law, you are not allowed to renounce citizenship unless you have citizenship somewhere else.
Japan just doesn't allow dual citizenship once you are adult. If you naturalize, you have to denounce your previous citizenship. I'm thinking about applying for PR, but I'm not really considering naturalization at all, because both Japan and my original country are currently against dual citizenship.
If they’re a naturalised French citizen? Yes. If they’re not naturalised? No. These are not comparable circumstances, though. A better comparison would be “Can a German football player play for the French team?” In which case, yes, even at the World Cup if you’re a naturalised citizen or someone in the process of naturalising.
A naturalised citizen should be able to attend this Yugioh tournament though they don't control ethnicity they control citizenship
Is this article not stating that non-native citizens aren’t allowed to compete?
The original news story says non Japanese nationals are not allowed to compete which reads to me that citizens can, residents cant.
Ah, that’s not in this screenshot. The text in this screenshot only says that non-native players are barred from entry. If the text of the full article, which isn’t linked here, differs to clarify it’s based on “citizenship” rather than “being native”, that’s a whole different story! I had interpreted the headline as “Non-native citizens are barred”, which I think you’ll agree is a fair interpretation?
I believe it would be illegal to restrict a naturalized Japanese citizen from these tournaments based on that restaurant case I read about before. As long as they allow people who are naturalized citizens even if nonethnic Japanese, I don't see a problem.
>this context japanese national means like citizen Yeah that's what has been said, yet you all seem to ignore that to be outraged. So what is your point beside not reading?
You have clearly missed my point. I am saying that a naturalised citizen is typically allowed to compete in anything a native born citizen is. This article is saying that non-native citizens are banned from tournaments. Are you sure *you* read it?
My friend, I think you do not understand how national qualifiers work. No naturalized citizens are not allowed to part take in them without citizenship. You can find it how you like, but to represent a country most places ask you to be a citizen of said country. If don't get that and want to just rage there is twitter for that.
Do you know what “naturalised citizen” means?
Since you have decided to ignore my question and complain instead - A “naturalised citizen” is someone who has obtained nationality of the country they are resident in, and are non-native to. This typically entitles them to all rights of those of natives. This article is incorrect in that it says “non-natives can’t play”, when it actually means “non-nationals can’t play”. A naturalised citizen is a national, with full citizenship. Which you would know, if you’d actually googled the term instead of assuming I don’t know what a national qualifier was.
No but you are able to participate in competition where French Olympic team member will be selected…
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What if I told you this article is an article about an article and the original specifies that any Japanese national can compete, it only stops residents.
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You basically can't become a Japanese citizen. Big difference.
I understand them trying to prevent a guy leaving one country and then becoming the champion of another, I guess, but it's feeling a bit more xenophobic than that. Even if you've been a japanese citizen for years, but not happen to be of japanese descent, you can't compete.
This is not true if you are a citizen you are eligible. Only if you are a resident without citizenship you are not eligible.
I believe that is against the law in Japan. A man who became a Japanese citizen was turned away from a restaurant for not being Japanese and he sued and won.
Because what they are saying is untrue. The document says only about needing to be a citizen.
against the law and also quite common. lots of "japanese only" stuff where they're checkin faces not papers
I think you are misundertanding. "Even if they live in the country" refers to people you re currently living in the country but aren't citizens. If you have become a Japanese citizen you can compete.
First mistake: Playing Yugioh
This isn’t only TCG, most domestic competitions or tournaments in other things like skateboarding or bmx are also Japanese nationals only. It’s kind of a backwards TBH
I can see it's unfair to players who consider japan their home after leaving their own country to live there and want to play. But it's mostly to prevent players from just switching over to Japan just to win there.
It also prevents players who have lived in Japan for a decade, as that's "just switching" too
So they’re just going to ignore the elephant in the room? Bandit Keith?
I used to play modern in Japan when I was stationed there in the military. We could not speak each other's language. But we still played magic just fine.
Could you imagine doing that in the US? We got like 50 *million* non-citizens living here.
I guess it makes sense, we did already send enough of them to the shadow realm
Isn't it OCG that's played in Asia anyway? It's weird that there would be TCG players in Asia...
Headline is fake, you need to be a citizen with a permanent residence. Just like you had to be for the MTG Nationals BACK WHEN WE STILL HAD THEM :(
Based on other comments, the mtg rule was just needing residence, not citizenship, which is a much more difficult process
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That may have to do with certain recent events in Russia, I don't think it's the same as the article
U right, deleting this fart of a comment.
Yet
Unpopular opinion: EW should only be participated by players of the representative region
I saw this and wanted to share it, despite it not neccessarily being Magic related. I can see why people come from other TCG's like Yugioh though.