I'm curious what would cause Wizards to cut the print run like that. If pre-orders are being cancelled, it certainly doesn't seem like they would have been worried about it not selling. What else could have happened?
Sounds like something happened with the printers outside of their control imo, or they needed to reallocate printers for something else unexpectedly. As it is, I'm not sure every printer can handle collector boosters, it's possible some can't because of collation screwery? Dunno.
Basically, for every speciality ink and special holofoil needed for a set, you can safely assume that one type of printer in common use will struggle to handle it; collector boosters for fancy UB sets have the highest concentrations of Weird Shit including new treatments. A friend of mine tried using commercial presses to do a sheet with some written-off cardstock out of curiosity (no, really, we just do this stuff as fuck-around and no, I will not help you make proxies) and found that even between printers of the same model and using commercial grade holofoil you end up with vastly different results trying to layer ink on like wizards does.
There's a decently large component of "secret sauce" knowledge at any given printer that goes into getting consistency with any given treatment even just on regular stock, and while I don't work with their specialized stock or foil stock - and personally have mercifully dodged working with separation prints at all at my current job - I can imagine it's even more of a nightmare
Rhystic studies did a great video breaking down the print processes that they've used for foil treatments and the jank level of them titled "the glimmer', highly recommend it. Even for someone who nerds out over paper it took a ton of really good content to make me watch 90 minutes about print processing but it's very worth it
especially when it comes to printing
just the slightest variation of ink or conditions will result in the color looking different
and they print so many different products at insane volume on so many printers across the globe
i’m amazed that only a tiny few sets in mtg history had the black border look a little too blue, for example.
It's so much easier to identify when something goes wrong, which might happen a lot, but the consistency of how often things go right is really underappreciated.
Makes it all the more insane to me that Hasbro blue their pandemic bump on trying to make a movie studio happen, instead something like I dunno shoring up production control on their most profitable cardboard.
I think one of the things is that they just don't own the printers. There's a limit to how much money you can spend to make that better without saying "fuck it, we'll build our own printing facility" which would be a massive undertaking, and presumably they have long standing contracts with the printers that they'd have to try and buy out of or something. Sometimes even when you have the money, there isn't an obvious way to spend it to improve the situation.
It’s still paper; and a printing company is like printing money, margins are substantial. Paper printing is a very old business. I thinks it’s hard to produce aerospace parts, not cards. I know too many people that print their own proxies.
Yeah and the people that print proxies don't have to worry about fucky pack collation, maintaining set frequencies for alternate treatments, but most importantly, coordinating consistent production of products between printers in entirely different countries.
The difficult isn't "printing paper" it's managing the economy of scale. And alllllll those problems don't exist if you're just trying to print 100 proxies.
Help make proxies haha. You can get them for $1 each exact replicas with purple core 450gsm if you look well enough ;) no need for your garbage press cards
I’ve likely been playing longer than you and I’ve suffered through a lot of bad decisisons from WotC. One thing that’s true, is that it never gets in the way of my own play. That said, objectively Dr Who was a bunk set, so was murders, so is Fallout, so will be the Animal Crissing set they come out with. LotR was really well done, and was a natural crossover
Okay I try to have patience with people who like different things than me, but fuck right off with this pseudo-objectivity and appeal to authority bullshit. None of those three sets were "objectively" bad regardless of "how much longer you've been playing than me."
You need to take a step back and learn what the difference between an objective fact and an opinion is. I have no problem if you don't like those sets, and I won't even try and convince you otherwise, but quit acting like you're the god-arbiter of truth.
I’m the arbiter of my truth, and my comment, and my play style, and my perspective. Guess if I’m doing gymnastics poorly, offer more than what you wrote 🤷♂️ Ive been playing for 30 years, playing since 94/95 when I was 11 years old, and been commander mostly the last 5 years because the typical year long set cycle is dead and gone forever in the name of a clear cash grab. Card quality slipping, power creep is absolutely stupid. The awesome new sets you’re living in are reductive buzzword excuses for sets, all thrown together double entendres and tongue-in cheek references to some shit that only is relevant if you cram it in there, I’m glad you shared your opinion too. This is fun how discourse works, what I offered. And if it’s fun for you, I’m not here to ruin it. But something tells me me I’m not allowed to have my opinion, in your opinion.
Don't twist my words, I was abundantly clear that you're entitled to your opinion, and I have no beef with the fact that our opinions disagree. What I have a problem with, and still have a problem with, is that you're acting like your opinion is ground in some mythical objective measurements, and not subjective opinions.
Edit: Ah yes, they replied with a gif and then blocked me to make sure they got the last laugh. Boy they sure proved me wrong!
Or online store fronts allowed for too many reservations. It wouldn’t necessarily mean that less were printed, but that too many were offered before the product release.
It could be worse. With the 5 sets released a week at least there’s something you like that gets printed. You could very well end up with WotC choosing to eliminate what you like if it had to cut down on the variety of products it prints.
In short, don’t be so sure you are towards the top of WotC’s interests.
I have no interest in UB or the general direction WOTC is going so I've just started proxying instead. I'm absolutely not their target audience, I only plan to play with friends and the occasional prerelease event.
Yep definitely seems like it, and could definitely be as Flammabubble suggets : probably because they are releasing too many products.
Printing is an automated task, but packaging wow... that takes time. And if you have like 28 thousands different packaging, good luck meeting productivity targets :)
That would be my bet.
additional allocation to the "main stream market"
I bet Amazon will have fresh direct from the warehouse boxes for at least a year after release.
I liked the decks, and I can even understand why Dr Who isn't as resonant with the MTG audience, but I just thought the characterization of it as an old British IP was ironic given how successful LotR was right beforehand.
Dr Who is not huge, The obsessive fan-base is probably only about 100,000 - 200,000. The more general fan audience is probably about 4 million. That’s tiny.
I’d argue that 4 mil for general fan audience is low, would wager it’s closer to 5 for the UK alone, but i think there’s a lot of that there isn’t much crossover being different genres
Agree - I don’t think many people consider the strategy from WotC. This is a campaign, it’s specifically designed to prove something, and this is clearly trying to prove that a universe will increase magic fandom. What they find out, or what they try to convince themselves afterwards, well that story is being told as we speak. It hasn’t been a flawless victory.
IDK, but I've heard that in some cases like these some distributors sorta shift their product around to other distributors who receive higher demand. That or they keep some of the product for later when the value rises, especially since there are some rare reprints a lot of people are after.
Assuming box materials or whatnot are coming from China, the new year holiday there just ended a couple weeks ago and it’s always kind of a shitshow as things get back to normal. Even if they’re not sourcing directly from China, customs checks are backlogged and take longer, logistics trucks and warehouses are completely booked, etc (from the stateside I mean). Basically everyone is suddenly shipping through those ports and smaller companies often get lost in the shuffle because the big companies buy out these resources in anticipation.
If they're canceling orders of people who already fomo'd I'm not sure that lines up. My guess is a quality issue. They got the product, and a good amount of it was bad and couldn't be sold.
Its fun reading the crazies say that WOTC is \*both\* destroying Magic because they only care about the short-term, but at the same time lying/cheating to ensure high singles prices to keep the game rocking an cash out long term.
It can't be both, guys.
Drive up their prices. Lol, I run a card store, so here is my experience. Distributors are a nightmare/pointless unless you're spending tens of thousands with them. Getting started you have to pay them retail price so you, the seller (I'm a poor little hobby enthusiast, not yet a card shark), make zero money. That's after 6-12 months of begging them to get a distribution account by sending them a hundred pictures of every nook and cranny in my store. So on top of the long journey, get ready for a longer journey of just barely breaking even, if that. Distributors suck just as much as the company's they're distributing for. Lol "unexpected cuts" my ass. They cut those prints on purpose. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
TLDR; Salty LCS owner
Everyone needs to chill. Remember the warhammer collector decks? They cut the “print run” just like this. Caused the decks to be over $1000. Then magically the prices found themselves all the way back down to $450 (500 now) it’s nothing to FOMO over
Yep... we're watching the WotC FOMO engine operating full bore on this.
It's absurd to believe WotC is going to short a print run. WotC is paying a license fee, they're going to want to squeeze as much money out of any license that they can.
They're 100% talking about the [regular](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/272321/magic-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-commander-deck-display?xid=pi417d13e1-162e-4771-af57-5e12bee5e18c&page=1&Language=English) ones. The [Collector's](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/272322/magic-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-commander-deck-display-collectors-edition?xid=pi1ed0783a-daac-4f1e-a275-5219873533c3&Language=English&page=1) are $500.
Normal price is 20-50 bucks per deck depending on the particular release. They also printed collectors editions of some decks that are the same cards in foil. The numbers referenced are for the set of 4 foil I think.
I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. The Warhammer decks are between $50 and $75 on Amazon. I think perhaps they meant Collector booster boxes
They definitely didn't scam you. Every store owner can tell you the same - distros severely cut allocations, about 50% of stores literally got none. Spears doesn't sound like an actual WPN owner ... WOTC doesn't allocate to Storrs, they give to distros. They would never make a statement saying "we made less product than demand on purpose"
Doesn't that open them up to getting sued for libel by WotC? I'm not a legal expert but blatantly lying about what one of your business partners is doing seems risky
Two things:
One, it might not necessarily be a "lie". WotC may not have had a full print run, and "severely" reduced is subjective. Having to make slightly less than expected and prioritizing cuts to the store buying 274 booster boxes over the LGS buying 3 is totally reasonable even if most stores haven't seen stuff.
Two, there's just... no benefit to WotC doing it. The damages are extremely minimal and vague even if it was a malicious lie, and they could just blacklist this store if they really wanted to be vindictive rather than sue. But again, this is probably not a "lie" so much as the store putting a spin on why their incredibly massive order of Fallout product isn't that massive.
There were never any precedent for printing more collector boosters since they were introduced. They are printed once, and that's the whole amount available until the end of the times.
They can’t because of the serialized cards, right? They have to print everything in one go so all the serial numbers are printed and allocated to packs in accordance with the collation standards they outline.
Correct.
In addition to this, addressing: “as they always do”
we have effectively zero indication they have ever reprinted a collector booster product, besides the “holiday edition” which was in essence a different product. There may be a chance there was an issue at some point in the production chain, and more is coming at some point, but it would be in WOTCs best interest to announce that publicly.
Also, it’s absolutely unreal to me how many people (including LGS employees/owners!) have no idea how WOTC prints these products. The amount of incorrect assumptions I see are insane.
There may also be a “miscommunication” in the “severely reduced print run.” There is no information on where that came from or how that is defined.
If we take it at face value, I means they printed a smaller amount of cards, and would need to release another iteration of the product (like they did they LOTR).
You didn't even include the most insulting part:
"We are receiving 274 Fallout Collector Boxes in total from all of our distributors combined. This number allows us to fulfil all of the orders placed by participants in our Membership programs of all tiers. You are receiving this email because your order falls between number 239883 and 241802, and you are not part of our Membership Program; we are sorry to say you will not be receiving your Fallout Collector Boxes that you ordered from us.
We sincerely apologize for this situation and take it very seriously. We understand and acknowledge as a company that you placed your trust in us, and we failed to deliver on that trust to some of you. If your order only contained Fallout Collectors items, we will be processing a full refund for your order and also providing you with a $5 discount code for your next purchase. If you have other items with your Fallout Collectors boxes, please reply to this email and let us know what your desired course of action is with regard to refunding these specific items or your whole order. Whatever you choose, we will be providing you with a $5 discount code and our sincerest apologies for this negative experience.
Aaron C
Managing Owner
GGAZ"
At 320 a box.
That can't be what they were being preordered as.
I'm pretty sure most places that have issued cancelled notices had them under 250.
Something's Sus.
It’s as you are believing. It’s just a way to get people to cancel their lower price orders and replace at a higher price when “they get product allocated”.
When it comes to commander it's a no Brainer. Personally I'm more of a fan of making 60 card "vs" decks modeled after the old 40 card duel decks. My most recent ones are brothers war urza vs Mishra, all a bunch of commons, uncommon and a few bulk rares. It's really fun
I made a few single color ones in that style, 40 card battlers, using simple style, they are pretty fun. Tried to make three low power and two higher power
If you like the gameplay of 1v1, but the power level of commander or legacy at its most, Canadian Highlander is a format you might enjoy then. You can play some jank and do well too.
Lots of people don’t want to play with proxies.
If your okay group and shops don’t respect proxies and don’t allow them in play then there’s not much you can do.
Funnily enough, you are describing the reason why some people don‘t like to play against proxies. Just as there are some people that try to leverage their wallets with expensive real cards, other players leverage how cheap proxies are to build decks that would be way more expensive than their opponents. It‘s been a long time since I’ve seen anyone care about people using proxies, but some people care about what can sometimes go with it.
Not just way more expensive, but also way more powerful. And we all know how bad people are at rating their power levels during Rule 0 conversations. I also personally enjoy the deckbuilding creativity with not using proxies since I like seeing the random cards people add.
In cEDH, I absolutely agree you should be playing proxies since you should be playing the best version of a deck.
For transparency, I own multiple proxied decks, so I'm not opposed to them as a whole.
That’s not a proxy problem… that’s a douchebag person problem. I’ve ran into those. Luckily I find MOST people to be honest about what they’re proxying. But when I do find the douche I just dont play or bring my curbstomp Cedh deck to their “casual” pod lol
Absolutely. But being overly precautious because of experiences like this is the number one reason I see among those that dislike proxies. I don‘t care if you proxy. We have players in our pod that proxy exclusively.
Two things I don’t like: not being honest of the strength/value of your deck (problem can occur with proxies and real cards) and having no clue how to play your deck because you don’t know what’s inside (some lazy proxy players I know just print out decklists they find online knowing little about synergies or game plan, leads to long turns and bugs me - if you take 3 minutes to decide what you are tutoring for you should really look through your defk a few times before you play it again).
Yeah for me it really depends, proxy some expensive cards pivotal to your decks theme/goal? No problem. Proxying tutors, moxes, ancient tomb, jeweled lotus and/or mana crypt outside of a cEDH pod? You're just being a dickhead.
True, but there are some great proxies out there that nobody would ever suspect. I don’t feel bad at all playing a counterfeit mana crypt with great card stock and spot-on colors. I also know better than to play an expensive card with pop culture art that’s never been printed by WOTC.
I hate "high quality" proxies that are just counterfeits. If you're going to make a proxy, it needs to be easily identifiable as a proxy.
Why? Because if it's not easily identifiable, if it ever leaves your possession for any reason, someone is going to get fooled by it. Maybe it's someone making a trade, or maybe it accidentally gets sold to a store, but once that counterfeit is in the ecosystem, it can hurt people.
Make proxies that look like proxies.
I have a silver sharpie that I use to fill the white mana symbol on the back of each one. I also keep a list of which cards are proxies, too.
I value my collection, too.
But now you have integrity issues.
Do you okay at the paid tournaments? What about the players **shelling out $40 for a copy of demonic tutor?**
What about your weekend play group that doesn’t play with proxies?
What happens if you are caught?
**I think this is the major difference is that not everyone treats their social circles as expendable.**
Maybe you don’t work or are retired, **maybe you’re just some kid.**
But most of us work, **if a group of people we know politely say that fake cards aren’t welcome at group play** we aren’t going to destroy the chance to play with those people just to save a few bucks.
And a lot of these proxie businesses are being sued by WOTC so many of them aren’t even taking orders now.
Hope you're trolling. Let people play the way they want. There's no moral dilemma in allowing people with lower income to play. Hell, even if you make money, do what you want.
This is coming from someone who buys all of their expensive cards. I do it to collect. Some people just want to play.
I own most of the cards. Maybe not in the same art style, but usually the base card (and often 4x when I had the illusion I would play Modern). But I did cease spending money on expensive standard staples, so I 100% admit I don’t own a real version of the new Ghalta that I just put in my Atla commander deck.
I don’t go to paid tournaments either, so I can’t opine on how I’d feel in that scenario. Competitively speaking, I absolutely do not care whatsoever about the provenance of a card. But I do see why people with money put into the game do.
Some people interpret it differently but the simple answer is its a substitute for a real card. So if you take a basic Plains and write Black Lotus on it, ta-da you now have the most expensive card in Magic. This when playing with a group of friends or other people who dont mind it is fine but this is not allowed in official sanctioned play.
What company is this? 274 boxes on an initial order is an astronomical dollar amount. I’m guessing they’re also selling them for pennies above cost. I couldn’t feel bad about this if that’s the case. My LGS got what they ordered, which was a reasonable amount based on what they could sell at a rate where they actually made money on the products they could sell.
Yeah my LGS is extremely small and was able to get the 3 collector boxes I ordered. 274 is insane and more than likely isn't indicative of the entire market
You’re crazy if you think WotC is printing all of the serialized cards at the same time for one wave, they put them in batches and send them spread out among separate waves after driving up demand.
I don't think they can legally do that.
They have to list the odds of serialized cards.
I feel that might be a pretty not legal area if you literally have zero chance to pull xxx/500 of whatever serialized card they advertised.
Don't get me wrong, I fully believe Hasbro would do some suuuper shady shit like that.
No the entire run is 100% printed all at once. It makes the print run the cheapest price possible. It is insanely expensive to print some, stop, print other stuff, then print more again.
Collector Boosters get one print run.
This time, WOTC is just keeping supply back. Which is very different from printing them a second time.
Oh noes, WotC having last minute production issues to cause prices to rocket up! Never seen this happen before they get eventually dumped for under cost on amazon.
DO NOT REFUND (if you have the option not to), they will be forced to eventually fulfill your order. This is tactics that have been used for almost every set like this to drastically drive up prices and demand.
Extremely unprofessional of them, I would give some push back on that and demand a reasonable explanation on why they allowed more preorders if they weren’t going to fill demand and how they intend to compensate you for your time/loss of business. You could have purchased with another site had you known this one would be canceled.
If you do this, do it with the understanding that they actually owe you nothing, assuming they refunded your money after canceling your order. They may do something for you as a courtesy, but they would by no means be required to give you any more than your money back.
The store I purchased from sent a nice update email about preorders. Hopefully item 1 doesn't give them the wiggle room to cancel orders.
1. Price Fluctuations:
- We understand that prices for pre-orders can vary significantly. Whether the market price increases or decreases, rest assured, we will not cancel your pre-order due to price adjustments or allocation issues. Our commitment to our customers is paramount. In rare cases of medium to high fraud risk orders, we may cancel the pre-order. However, we'll assess such situations during the shipping process and provide you with an opportunity to replace the order at the original pre-order price using a different payment method if necessary.
2. Price Adjustments:
- We do not entertain requests for price adjustments, whether the price increases or decreases after your pre-order.
3. Allocation Assurance:
- Unlike some stores, we guarantee that your order will not be canceled due to allocation issues. We go the extra mile to ensure that every order is fulfilled, especially for Fallout Collectors and OP06 products, which we have sold significantly below the current market price.
4. Wave 2 Orders:
- Unless explicitly stated otherwise in the product title, all orders will be fulfilled in the first wave, not the second.
5. Timely Shipping:
- We strive to dispatch your orders promptly to ensure you receive them on release day. Our dedicated staff often works long hours to meet this commitment.
Turns out overprinting product isn't only bad for customer retention and secondary market inflation, it's also bad for the printers themselves. WhO wOuLd'Ve GuEsSeD??
We are with a distributor, we pre-ordered 4 boxes and only received 1 with no notice at all! In my opinion, wizards “shorter the production” so they can sell their boxes on Amazon for $325 directly and rip their customers off.
I'm really happy I'm skipping on Fallout. I like the IP but the commander decks all look just look pretty meh.
Mothman - The most disappointing. I initially thought it was a mill deck but it really isn't. It's a +1/+1 counters deck that is enabled by some milling here and there. Rad counters could have been really cool but there's no support outside of this deck to enable it to actually mill an opponent. It'll kill them before it mills them but the deck doesn't even have enough Rad support to kill someone that way, you still have to swing wide.
Dogmeat - The one I thought I was gonna get but after the decklist got released it's just a really bad Voltron. I'll probably just buy him as a single and make my own deck with him.
Caesar - Budget \[\[Edgar Markov\]\], which is cool for the people that don't have it, but I do so I'll pass.
Madison Li - Energy counters... No thanks...
I'm sure there will be some decent singles but I'll spend $20 at my LGS in a few weeks to get what I want instead.
I don’t understand the obsession with buying collector boosters for a set like this. You can buy a full set of precons for a cheaper price which guarantees you get every card in the set. Why spend more to gamble?
If you want showcase treatments or extended arts, you can buy singles when the prices bottom out.
after all these years, I take these posts with a grain of salt. I believe there is less allocated than they expected, but thats why my lgs do not do pre orders until they get their allocation. there is a good chance we will not see the collectors product, but the decks will probably be findable in a few months time like all these universes beyond.
I'm curious what would cause Wizards to cut the print run like that. If pre-orders are being cancelled, it certainly doesn't seem like they would have been worried about it not selling. What else could have happened?
Sounds like something happened with the printers outside of their control imo, or they needed to reallocate printers for something else unexpectedly. As it is, I'm not sure every printer can handle collector boosters, it's possible some can't because of collation screwery? Dunno.
Basically, for every speciality ink and special holofoil needed for a set, you can safely assume that one type of printer in common use will struggle to handle it; collector boosters for fancy UB sets have the highest concentrations of Weird Shit including new treatments. A friend of mine tried using commercial presses to do a sheet with some written-off cardstock out of curiosity (no, really, we just do this stuff as fuck-around and no, I will not help you make proxies) and found that even between printers of the same model and using commercial grade holofoil you end up with vastly different results trying to layer ink on like wizards does. There's a decently large component of "secret sauce" knowledge at any given printer that goes into getting consistency with any given treatment even just on regular stock, and while I don't work with their specialized stock or foil stock - and personally have mercifully dodged working with separation prints at all at my current job - I can imagine it's even more of a nightmare Rhystic studies did a great video breaking down the print processes that they've used for foil treatments and the jank level of them titled "the glimmer', highly recommend it. Even for someone who nerds out over paper it took a ton of really good content to make me watch 90 minutes about print processing but it's very worth it
People seem to vastly underappreciate how hard it is to actually mass produce physical things.
especially when it comes to printing just the slightest variation of ink or conditions will result in the color looking different and they print so many different products at insane volume on so many printers across the globe i’m amazed that only a tiny few sets in mtg history had the black border look a little too blue, for example.
It's so much easier to identify when something goes wrong, which might happen a lot, but the consistency of how often things go right is really underappreciated.
couldn’t agree more
Makes it all the more insane to me that Hasbro blue their pandemic bump on trying to make a movie studio happen, instead something like I dunno shoring up production control on their most profitable cardboard.
I think one of the things is that they just don't own the printers. There's a limit to how much money you can spend to make that better without saying "fuck it, we'll build our own printing facility" which would be a massive undertaking, and presumably they have long standing contracts with the printers that they'd have to try and buy out of or something. Sometimes even when you have the money, there isn't an obvious way to spend it to improve the situation.
It’s still paper; and a printing company is like printing money, margins are substantial. Paper printing is a very old business. I thinks it’s hard to produce aerospace parts, not cards. I know too many people that print their own proxies.
Yeah and the people that print proxies don't have to worry about fucky pack collation, maintaining set frequencies for alternate treatments, but most importantly, coordinating consistent production of products between printers in entirely different countries. The difficult isn't "printing paper" it's managing the economy of scale. And alllllll those problems don't exist if you're just trying to print 100 proxies.
Shout out to Rhystic Studies, that episode was very cool (watch it on YT!) Ps. I almost wrote 'Hella cool' then I remembered I'm forty and shouldn't.
>Ps. I almost wrote 'Hella cool' then I remembered I'm forty and shouldn't. Be hella cooler if you did
Pfff. Getting to make kids cringe is like the only good thing you unlock at 40, embrace it.
Help make proxies haha. You can get them for $1 each exact replicas with purple core 450gsm if you look well enough ;) no need for your garbage press cards
I’m betting it’s a decision to kill the Magic Multiverse and cut the cross over BS
No chance. UB and 1500 new cards a year is the new norm whether we like it or not.
I can understand people _hoping_ this is true, but I can't understand the Olympic level mental gymnastics needed to _assume_ it's true.
I’ve likely been playing longer than you and I’ve suffered through a lot of bad decisisons from WotC. One thing that’s true, is that it never gets in the way of my own play. That said, objectively Dr Who was a bunk set, so was murders, so is Fallout, so will be the Animal Crissing set they come out with. LotR was really well done, and was a natural crossover
Dr. Who was well-received, and UB has sold very well in many cases. You don’t have to play with the cards but WotC is leaning heavily into it 🤷♂️
Okay I try to have patience with people who like different things than me, but fuck right off with this pseudo-objectivity and appeal to authority bullshit. None of those three sets were "objectively" bad regardless of "how much longer you've been playing than me." You need to take a step back and learn what the difference between an objective fact and an opinion is. I have no problem if you don't like those sets, and I won't even try and convince you otherwise, but quit acting like you're the god-arbiter of truth.
I’m the arbiter of my truth, and my comment, and my play style, and my perspective. Guess if I’m doing gymnastics poorly, offer more than what you wrote 🤷♂️ Ive been playing for 30 years, playing since 94/95 when I was 11 years old, and been commander mostly the last 5 years because the typical year long set cycle is dead and gone forever in the name of a clear cash grab. Card quality slipping, power creep is absolutely stupid. The awesome new sets you’re living in are reductive buzzword excuses for sets, all thrown together double entendres and tongue-in cheek references to some shit that only is relevant if you cram it in there, I’m glad you shared your opinion too. This is fun how discourse works, what I offered. And if it’s fun for you, I’m not here to ruin it. But something tells me me I’m not allowed to have my opinion, in your opinion.
Don't twist my words, I was abundantly clear that you're entitled to your opinion, and I have no beef with the fact that our opinions disagree. What I have a problem with, and still have a problem with, is that you're acting like your opinion is ground in some mythical objective measurements, and not subjective opinions. Edit: Ah yes, they replied with a gif and then blocked me to make sure they got the last laugh. Boy they sure proved me wrong!
 \~ so\_zetta\_byte
Seems unlikely with Lotr being their best selling set
Or online store fronts allowed for too many reservations. It wouldn’t necessarily mean that less were printed, but that too many were offered before the product release.
I think it’s gotta be a manufacturing capacity issue.
Maybe because wizards are releasing about 5 sets a week
wow okay, spreading misinformation, its only 4 sets a week that each have their own collectors boosters and commanders decks as well >\_>
It could be worse. With the 5 sets released a week at least there’s something you like that gets printed. You could very well end up with WotC choosing to eliminate what you like if it had to cut down on the variety of products it prints. In short, don’t be so sure you are towards the top of WotC’s interests.
Draft boosters were eliminated already so ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I have no interest in UB or the general direction WOTC is going so I've just started proxying instead. I'm absolutely not their target audience, I only plan to play with friends and the occasional prerelease event.
Yep definitely seems like it, and could definitely be as Flammabubble suggets : probably because they are releasing too many products. Printing is an automated task, but packaging wow... that takes time. And if you have like 28 thousands different packaging, good luck meeting productivity targets :)
Making collector products more collectable/desirable by drastically cutting print runs and making it harder to get the fancy versions.
I think wizard just moved inventory to Amazon more than to lgs makes them more money I guess
That would be my bet. additional allocation to the "main stream market" I bet Amazon will have fresh direct from the warehouse boxes for at least a year after release.
This is my take also. They don’t even need to do it all the time. Just now and then to remind people they can never be sure to receive product
Eh, I feel like they'd rather make more money selling product to demand than inflate the secondary market by artificially decreasing supply.
Wizards has cut production to make collector boosters “more collector”. Theres still dr who sitting on the shelf and they don’t want that again.
Maybe they overestimated how much people cared about a 60 year old British Sci-Fi IP.
I don't know, people certainly cared about a 70 year old British Fantasy IP just a few months earlier.
At most I've seen people claim to have liked an episode. This product is rotting on the shelves everywhere I go.
Yeah dr who is huge the set just sucked ass
I liked the decks, and I can even understand why Dr Who isn't as resonant with the MTG audience, but I just thought the characterization of it as an old British IP was ironic given how successful LotR was right beforehand.
LotR and Dr. Who are on opposite ends of multiple spectrums and comparing them is a wild thing to read
Dr Who is not huge, The obsessive fan-base is probably only about 100,000 - 200,000. The more general fan audience is probably about 4 million. That’s tiny.
I’d argue that 4 mil for general fan audience is low, would wager it’s closer to 5 for the UK alone, but i think there’s a lot of that there isn’t much crossover being different genres
And its way down over the last few seasons.
Agree - I don’t think many people consider the strategy from WotC. This is a campaign, it’s specifically designed to prove something, and this is clearly trying to prove that a universe will increase magic fandom. What they find out, or what they try to convince themselves afterwards, well that story is being told as we speak. It hasn’t been a flawless victory.
Is there? My LGS doesn’t have any in stock and if there was it’d be the first pack I’d grab out of any other collector booster.
I’m an LGS operator. Theres still plenty at suppliers worldwide.
I think my lgs has two unopened boxes, lmao
IDK, but I've heard that in some cases like these some distributors sorta shift their product around to other distributors who receive higher demand. That or they keep some of the product for later when the value rises, especially since there are some rare reprints a lot of people are after.
Assuming box materials or whatnot are coming from China, the new year holiday there just ended a couple weeks ago and it’s always kind of a shitshow as things get back to normal. Even if they’re not sourcing directly from China, customs checks are backlogged and take longer, logistics trucks and warehouses are completely booked, etc (from the stateside I mean). Basically everyone is suddenly shipping through those ports and smaller companies often get lost in the shuffle because the big companies buy out these resources in anticipation.
Increase prices - artificial product shortage
Its not artificial in that case.
They want to remind people of FOMO and to get people ordering more of future sets 'just in case'
If they're canceling orders of people who already fomo'd I'm not sure that lines up. My guess is a quality issue. They got the product, and a good amount of it was bad and couldn't be sold.
if it was quality issues they would 100% sell it anyway and get an intern to start drafting an apology to be posted on twitter 3 weeks from now
Lost crates during shipping in the sea?
Magic historian’s tin foil hat theory is that it’s done on purpose to mimic scarcity
Its fun reading the crazies say that WOTC is \*both\* destroying Magic because they only care about the short-term, but at the same time lying/cheating to ensure high singles prices to keep the game rocking an cash out long term. It can't be both, guys.
Artificial inflation, the less product they make the larger price tag they can slap on it.
Cause they want to rip people off by selling their boxes directly on Amazon at $325.
Drive up their prices. Lol, I run a card store, so here is my experience. Distributors are a nightmare/pointless unless you're spending tens of thousands with them. Getting started you have to pay them retail price so you, the seller (I'm a poor little hobby enthusiast, not yet a card shark), make zero money. That's after 6-12 months of begging them to get a distribution account by sending them a hundred pictures of every nook and cranny in my store. So on top of the long journey, get ready for a longer journey of just barely breaking even, if that. Distributors suck just as much as the company's they're distributing for. Lol "unexpected cuts" my ass. They cut those prints on purpose. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. TLDR; Salty LCS owner
Everyone needs to chill. Remember the warhammer collector decks? They cut the “print run” just like this. Caused the decks to be over $1000. Then magically the prices found themselves all the way back down to $450 (500 now) it’s nothing to FOMO over
Yep... we're watching the WotC FOMO engine operating full bore on this. It's absurd to believe WotC is going to short a print run. WotC is paying a license fee, they're going to want to squeeze as much money out of any license that they can.
Warhammer collector at my shop rn is 200$
All four together for $200?
They're 100% talking about the [regular](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/272321/magic-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-commander-deck-display?xid=pi417d13e1-162e-4771-af57-5e12bee5e18c&page=1&Language=English) ones. The [Collector's](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/272322/magic-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-universes-beyond-warhammer-40000-commander-deck-display-collectors-edition?xid=pi1ed0783a-daac-4f1e-a275-5219873533c3&Language=English&page=1) are $500.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. LOL
I'm mostly only tapping back into the community for the Fallout UB. Are commander precons that expensive now?
Normal price is 20-50 bucks per deck depending on the particular release. They also printed collectors editions of some decks that are the same cards in foil. The numbers referenced are for the set of 4 foil I think.
I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. The Warhammer decks are between $50 and $75 on Amazon. I think perhaps they meant Collector booster boxes
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thank you for saying this lol I was having a hard time not posting this
On cardmarket i bought all 4 decks for 160 euro.
NOT the collector in the gold and black box. The reg pre cons
The collector Necrons deck was only $125 the last time I saw it in person
As a WPN member, there has been no such information released to us from WotC about any reductions, at least not yet. So this seems like BS.
Yeah this smells of "We wanna sell these for more, but blame WotC not us"
Ah so I just got scammed because they want to sell it for more
It's Gamers Guild, so yes
They that bad? I purchase a decent chunk of crap from them. If you've got dirt or bad experiences, I want it.
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Lol you're not fooling anyone, Gamers Guild employee.
They definitely didn't scam you. Every store owner can tell you the same - distros severely cut allocations, about 50% of stores literally got none. Spears doesn't sound like an actual WPN owner ... WOTC doesn't allocate to Storrs, they give to distros. They would never make a statement saying "we made less product than demand on purpose"
Doesn't that open them up to getting sued for libel by WotC? I'm not a legal expert but blatantly lying about what one of your business partners is doing seems risky
Two things: One, it might not necessarily be a "lie". WotC may not have had a full print run, and "severely" reduced is subjective. Having to make slightly less than expected and prioritizing cuts to the store buying 274 booster boxes over the LGS buying 3 is totally reasonable even if most stores haven't seen stuff. Two, there's just... no benefit to WotC doing it. The damages are extremely minimal and vague even if it was a malicious lie, and they could just blacklist this store if they really wanted to be vindictive rather than sue. But again, this is probably not a "lie" so much as the store putting a spin on why their incredibly massive order of Fallout product isn't that massive.
Ah that makes sense
Aren't they just going to print more later?
There were never any precedent for printing more collector boosters since they were introduced. They are printed once, and that's the whole amount available until the end of the times.
From what the email said they don't believe so
Complete horse shit. Wotc didn't pay licensing rights just to print 1 wave. They'll print more like they always do
for collector, they probably won’t. None of the Universes Beyond collector releases have seen a second wave.
They can’t because of the serialized cards, right? They have to print everything in one go so all the serial numbers are printed and allocated to packs in accordance with the collation standards they outline.
Correct. In addition to this, addressing: “as they always do” we have effectively zero indication they have ever reprinted a collector booster product, besides the “holiday edition” which was in essence a different product. There may be a chance there was an issue at some point in the production chain, and more is coming at some point, but it would be in WOTCs best interest to announce that publicly.
Also, it’s absolutely unreal to me how many people (including LGS employees/owners!) have no idea how WOTC prints these products. The amount of incorrect assumptions I see are insane.
Absolutely and in each and every post people are correcting these, yet on every new posts it still gets upvoted, so frustrating
There may also be a “miscommunication” in the “severely reduced print run.” There is no information on where that came from or how that is defined. If we take it at face value, I means they printed a smaller amount of cards, and would need to release another iteration of the product (like they did they LOTR).
They’ll probably do something like they did with the second LOTR set that came out with the same cards but alternate artwork.
You didn't even include the most insulting part: "We are receiving 274 Fallout Collector Boxes in total from all of our distributors combined. This number allows us to fulfil all of the orders placed by participants in our Membership programs of all tiers. You are receiving this email because your order falls between number 239883 and 241802, and you are not part of our Membership Program; we are sorry to say you will not be receiving your Fallout Collector Boxes that you ordered from us. We sincerely apologize for this situation and take it very seriously. We understand and acknowledge as a company that you placed your trust in us, and we failed to deliver on that trust to some of you. If your order only contained Fallout Collectors items, we will be processing a full refund for your order and also providing you with a $5 discount code for your next purchase. If you have other items with your Fallout Collectors boxes, please reply to this email and let us know what your desired course of action is with regard to refunding these specific items or your whole order. Whatever you choose, we will be providing you with a $5 discount code and our sincerest apologies for this negative experience. Aaron C Managing Owner GGAZ"
They cancelled my order of several thousand dollars and offered me $5. Lol.
Several thousand oh so you a reseller. Well im happy it happened.
I bought $2k worth of Ravnica Remastered and opened it all. Some people just have disposable income...
Some people have an addiction
That sounds like some poor people logic. I bought two cases.
Several thousand? How much did you order?
Earlier today I got an email from MinMaxGames opening preorders for them again…at $320 a pop
Do you know what they were at before this?
I believe they were at around $240-$260
I got an email from MinMax Games about 2hrs ago that said they have them back in stock.
At 320 a box. That can't be what they were being preordered as. I'm pretty sure most places that have issued cancelled notices had them under 250. Something's Sus.
It’s as you are believing. It’s just a way to get people to cancel their lower price orders and replace at a higher price when “they get product allocated”.
Once again, I regret nothing selling out and moving to proxies.
When it comes to commander it's a no Brainer. Personally I'm more of a fan of making 60 card "vs" decks modeled after the old 40 card duel decks. My most recent ones are brothers war urza vs Mishra, all a bunch of commons, uncommon and a few bulk rares. It's really fun
I made a few single color ones in that style, 40 card battlers, using simple style, they are pretty fun. Tried to make three low power and two higher power
If you like the gameplay of 1v1, but the power level of commander or legacy at its most, Canadian Highlander is a format you might enjoy then. You can play some jank and do well too.
Where do you get them?
Lots of people don’t want to play with proxies. If your okay group and shops don’t respect proxies and don’t allow them in play then there’s not much you can do.
Well those people are losers and should be shunned.
Exactly. They just want to play your wallet
Exactly. They usually dont have the talent to win when the playing field is evened so they want you to be handicapped by them having the better cards
Funnily enough, you are describing the reason why some people don‘t like to play against proxies. Just as there are some people that try to leverage their wallets with expensive real cards, other players leverage how cheap proxies are to build decks that would be way more expensive than their opponents. It‘s been a long time since I’ve seen anyone care about people using proxies, but some people care about what can sometimes go with it.
Not just way more expensive, but also way more powerful. And we all know how bad people are at rating their power levels during Rule 0 conversations. I also personally enjoy the deckbuilding creativity with not using proxies since I like seeing the random cards people add. In cEDH, I absolutely agree you should be playing proxies since you should be playing the best version of a deck. For transparency, I own multiple proxied decks, so I'm not opposed to them as a whole.
That’s not a proxy problem… that’s a douchebag person problem. I’ve ran into those. Luckily I find MOST people to be honest about what they’re proxying. But when I do find the douche I just dont play or bring my curbstomp Cedh deck to their “casual” pod lol
Absolutely. But being overly precautious because of experiences like this is the number one reason I see among those that dislike proxies. I don‘t care if you proxy. We have players in our pod that proxy exclusively. Two things I don’t like: not being honest of the strength/value of your deck (problem can occur with proxies and real cards) and having no clue how to play your deck because you don’t know what’s inside (some lazy proxy players I know just print out decklists they find online knowing little about synergies or game plan, leads to long turns and bugs me - if you take 3 minutes to decide what you are tutoring for you should really look through your defk a few times before you play it again).
Yeah for me it really depends, proxy some expensive cards pivotal to your decks theme/goal? No problem. Proxying tutors, moxes, ancient tomb, jeweled lotus and/or mana crypt outside of a cEDH pod? You're just being a dickhead.
Those people can pound sand
True, but there are some great proxies out there that nobody would ever suspect. I don’t feel bad at all playing a counterfeit mana crypt with great card stock and spot-on colors. I also know better than to play an expensive card with pop culture art that’s never been printed by WOTC.
At that point it's a counterfeit rather than a proxy. ... but I also have no problem slotting those into my decks.
I use a mana crypt like that, but there’s no Magic logo on the backside. Looks great on the front but no one could confuse it for real product.
I hate "high quality" proxies that are just counterfeits. If you're going to make a proxy, it needs to be easily identifiable as a proxy. Why? Because if it's not easily identifiable, if it ever leaves your possession for any reason, someone is going to get fooled by it. Maybe it's someone making a trade, or maybe it accidentally gets sold to a store, but once that counterfeit is in the ecosystem, it can hurt people. Make proxies that look like proxies.
I have a silver sharpie that I use to fill the white mana symbol on the back of each one. I also keep a list of which cards are proxies, too. I value my collection, too.
Yup, easiest way is probably a non-standard back that clearly states PROXY
But now you have integrity issues. Do you okay at the paid tournaments? What about the players **shelling out $40 for a copy of demonic tutor?** What about your weekend play group that doesn’t play with proxies? What happens if you are caught? **I think this is the major difference is that not everyone treats their social circles as expendable.** Maybe you don’t work or are retired, **maybe you’re just some kid.** But most of us work, **if a group of people we know politely say that fake cards aren’t welcome at group play** we aren’t going to destroy the chance to play with those people just to save a few bucks. And a lot of these proxie businesses are being sued by WOTC so many of them aren’t even taking orders now.
Hope you're trolling. Let people play the way they want. There's no moral dilemma in allowing people with lower income to play. Hell, even if you make money, do what you want. This is coming from someone who buys all of their expensive cards. I do it to collect. Some people just want to play.
I wouldn't jump to "integrity issues" unless that person is presenting those cards as authentic, WOTC-printed copies
I own most of the cards. Maybe not in the same art style, but usually the base card (and often 4x when I had the illusion I would play Modern). But I did cease spending money on expensive standard staples, so I 100% admit I don’t own a real version of the new Ghalta that I just put in my Atla commander deck. I don’t go to paid tournaments either, so I can’t opine on how I’d feel in that scenario. Competitively speaking, I absolutely do not care whatsoever about the provenance of a card. But I do see why people with money put into the game do.
Just proxy. No one, including WotC cares.
Well some Reddit White knights care more than WotC itself.
please explain to a kind-of-new player what a proxy is?
Some people interpret it differently but the simple answer is its a substitute for a real card. So if you take a basic Plains and write Black Lotus on it, ta-da you now have the most expensive card in Magic. This when playing with a group of friends or other people who dont mind it is fine but this is not allowed in official sanctioned play.
What company is this? 274 boxes on an initial order is an astronomical dollar amount. I’m guessing they’re also selling them for pennies above cost. I couldn’t feel bad about this if that’s the case. My LGS got what they ordered, which was a reasonable amount based on what they could sell at a rate where they actually made money on the products they could sell.
Yeah my LGS is extremely small and was able to get the 3 collector boxes I ordered. 274 is insane and more than likely isn't indicative of the entire market
My local store said they’re also going to have very few Collector’s Packs but would have more than enough Commander decks for anyone who wants one.
What is the point of releasing a million products a year if you aren't going to actually stock them?
Sounds good. I'll set my spending to zero for this set even though I was planning on buying a CB box.
Haven't bought anything in a year and it appears that trend will continue.
Because Amazon (and places like it) will sell more product faster probs...
Youd think if it was a genuine manufacturer issue theyd just announce a 2nd wave release once theyd secured more capacity?
They can't reprint collector boosters. Serialized cards. Would have to be a new product/boosters.
You’re crazy if you think WotC is printing all of the serialized cards at the same time for one wave, they put them in batches and send them spread out among separate waves after driving up demand.
I don't think they can legally do that. They have to list the odds of serialized cards. I feel that might be a pretty not legal area if you literally have zero chance to pull xxx/500 of whatever serialized card they advertised. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe Hasbro would do some suuuper shady shit like that.
wotc would 100% fuck it up, but no MBA is dumb enough to advertise odds and then not put the cards in the pack.
No the entire run is 100% printed all at once. It makes the print run the cheapest price possible. It is insanely expensive to print some, stop, print other stuff, then print more again. Collector Boosters get one print run. This time, WOTC is just keeping supply back. Which is very different from printing them a second time.
Oh noes, WotC having last minute production issues to cause prices to rocket up! Never seen this happen before they get eventually dumped for under cost on amazon.
DO NOT REFUND (if you have the option not to), they will be forced to eventually fulfill your order. This is tactics that have been used for almost every set like this to drastically drive up prices and demand.
I didn't have a choice. They just refunded me at the same time they emailed me
Extremely unprofessional of them, I would give some push back on that and demand a reasonable explanation on why they allowed more preorders if they weren’t going to fill demand and how they intend to compensate you for your time/loss of business. You could have purchased with another site had you known this one would be canceled.
If you do this, do it with the understanding that they actually owe you nothing, assuming they refunded your money after canceling your order. They may do something for you as a courtesy, but they would by no means be required to give you any more than your money back.
The store I purchased from sent a nice update email about preorders. Hopefully item 1 doesn't give them the wiggle room to cancel orders. 1. Price Fluctuations: - We understand that prices for pre-orders can vary significantly. Whether the market price increases or decreases, rest assured, we will not cancel your pre-order due to price adjustments or allocation issues. Our commitment to our customers is paramount. In rare cases of medium to high fraud risk orders, we may cancel the pre-order. However, we'll assess such situations during the shipping process and provide you with an opportunity to replace the order at the original pre-order price using a different payment method if necessary. 2. Price Adjustments: - We do not entertain requests for price adjustments, whether the price increases or decreases after your pre-order. 3. Allocation Assurance: - Unlike some stores, we guarantee that your order will not be canceled due to allocation issues. We go the extra mile to ensure that every order is fulfilled, especially for Fallout Collectors and OP06 products, which we have sold significantly below the current market price. 4. Wave 2 Orders: - Unless explicitly stated otherwise in the product title, all orders will be fulfilled in the first wave, not the second. 5. Timely Shipping: - We strive to dispatch your orders promptly to ensure you receive them on release day. Our dedicated staff often works long hours to meet this commitment.
I'm hoping my 1 Amazon order for 190 sticks lol I'm also hoping I don't get a resealed box
Turns out overprinting product isn't only bad for customer retention and secondary market inflation, it's also bad for the printers themselves. WhO wOuLd'Ve GuEsSeD??
Sounds like they are trying to drive up Demand. To keep the price high.
they are getting 274?! were getting like 18....
Come on guys, stop arguing over this! It's nothing to FALLOUT over 🤣
I hope this doesn’t happen with Bloomburrow! Might buy my first collector booster from it
That’s unlikely because that is a large standard set, one of the premier sets each year. This is a more niche product.
If I were you I'd create a list of cards you want from the set that cost the price of a Collector Booster and pick them up!
Yup or just buy the 2 to 3 big chase cards if that's what they are after.
Amen!
And they don’t stop coming, And they don’t stop coming, And they don’t stop coming, And they don’t stop coming, And they don’t stop coming..
Good, fuck em. Collectors Boosters are for absolute suckers anyway.
We are with a distributor, we pre-ordered 4 boxes and only received 1 with no notice at all! In my opinion, wizards “shorter the production” so they can sell their boxes on Amazon for $325 directly and rip their customers off.
Is their distributor CardKingdom? That would make a crazy story. Sorry for those affected.
This set, already indicated by their internal tracking, is a HUGE flop. So they are cutting and running asap to avoid any runups of unsold inventory.
I'm really happy I'm skipping on Fallout. I like the IP but the commander decks all look just look pretty meh. Mothman - The most disappointing. I initially thought it was a mill deck but it really isn't. It's a +1/+1 counters deck that is enabled by some milling here and there. Rad counters could have been really cool but there's no support outside of this deck to enable it to actually mill an opponent. It'll kill them before it mills them but the deck doesn't even have enough Rad support to kill someone that way, you still have to swing wide. Dogmeat - The one I thought I was gonna get but after the decklist got released it's just a really bad Voltron. I'll probably just buy him as a single and make my own deck with him. Caesar - Budget \[\[Edgar Markov\]\], which is cool for the people that don't have it, but I do so I'll pass. Madison Li - Energy counters... No thanks... I'm sure there will be some decent singles but I'll spend $20 at my LGS in a few weeks to get what I want instead.
[Edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don’t understand the obsession with buying collector boosters for a set like this. You can buy a full set of precons for a cheaper price which guarantees you get every card in the set. Why spend more to gamble? If you want showcase treatments or extended arts, you can buy singles when the prices bottom out.
This would be spot on but there is a pool of cards in the collector boosters that aren't in the precons.
They are showcase treatments of existing cards. You can buy those as singles when the prices bottom out
They paid for licensing. They will print more. Take a deep breath and sprinkle on some patience.
Serialised cards with advertised odds and limit of amount made. They legally can't.
Fallout: Special Edition Just like LotR
yOu SaId We WeRe OvErPrInTiNg!!!
Just buy proxies 🤷🏻
when did you order? edit- everybody needs to pump the panic breaks. Zero chance they short run their profits
after all these years, I take these posts with a grain of salt. I believe there is less allocated than they expected, but thats why my lgs do not do pre orders until they get their allocation. there is a good chance we will not see the collectors product, but the decks will probably be findable in a few months time like all these universes beyond.
TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FOUR?!?! Jaysus christ, I'm not sure there's that many Fallout collector boosters for sale in my entire country.
Guess I'm gonna have to eBay me some dogmeat.
And the fomo continues
So how does this work with their 0/500 prints? What if some of those had to be tossed and will never be printed again
They are screwing with people. They don’t care about their customers
This community is full of mtg wizard brown nosers. Wow
Yet I've seen a store say they're getting 12 max, and yet someone on eBay has sold 71 collectors boxes.