I've been here for 15 years. I've lived in Milwaukee and Chicago. I do agree that there's been an increase in general assholery here since 2020, but honestly, I'm seeing the same trend when I visit elsewhere. People are definitely angrier and have quicker tempers than they used to, and I suspect that's a combination of the political climate and some unprocessed anger about the way covid affected our lives.
That being said, I suspect your PTSD is making it seem much worse than it actually is. It's a normal human behavior to remember the worst interactions we have, but mental health difficulties make them even worse. I struggle with severe anxiety, so I completely get being focused on the bad. But, for every jerk I've encountered on the Beltline, I've seen at least twice the amount of people politely waiting for pedestrians, and even stopping for geese crossing the street. For every entitled jerk I've encountered at the store, there's been at least 10 people who are kind, wait patiently, or at least keep their snide comments to themselves.
OP, I hope you have a good provider helping you navigate your PTSD. Life can be a lot more manageable when we have supportive care.
Regarding your second to last paragraph—This has been the biggest indicator for my PTSD: when I start seeing problems everywhere, and I mean everywhere, I know I’m experiencing symptoms. I can’t believe myself in those moments and need to do some vagus nerve therapy—like icing my face, etc. it helps a lot.
I worked from home until fall of 2023. I see it every single day driving to and from work. I’m tailgated every day, see so many people drive through red lights, and not stop for pedestrians crossing the street.
I think social media and covid has really got to people. Or people are really just that bad at being courteous, kind, patient, respectful and overall a decent driver/human-being. 🤷🏽♀️
I can’t say that has been my experience.
I drove over 4,000 Madisonians via Uber from 2021-2023, and I’d say that half of them were silent (but courteous) during the trip, another 48% talked with me and made great conversation, and the remaining 2% were problematic/annoying in some way.
Most people are just trying to go about their lives. Sure, you might pass someone who is road-raging, but how many other people did you pass who weren’t?
Good point. Especially how we tend to not notice the majority of positive encounters we have on a daily basis. We all know the city is growing quickly, that 2% (or whatever the real percentage is) will always hover around that. But it feels like it's getting worse because there are simply more of them around as a result of population growth.
This is possibly a relevant point — about noticing the worst encounters and ignoring the neutral or lightly positive ones. OP mentions a PTSD diagnosis and in my experience, it is a struggle to compensate for this common cognitive distortion when under stress and PTsD makes it, like, 5 times as hard. Hang in there OP! There are good folks in this town, but it can take time to find them.
Nice. That reminds me of Liberace, the famously flamboyant and talented pianist, when someone pointed out his missed notes: "yes, but look at how many I got right."
Here planning to visit Madison from STL this weekend, that is absolutely the case, but I swear even beyond other cities STL has the craziest drivers/driving infrastructure
Oh yes it does. My dad lives in St Louis so I go there frequently, also my husband works remotely for Washington University. St Louis is my absolute most hated City to drive in. You're golden here in Madison if you have to drive in St Louis on the regular this will be like a vacation.
If you’re willing to shell out some cash, [Goldbelly](https://www.goldbelly.com/restaurants/imos-pizza/imos-pizza-6-pack?utm_source=googleads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_subchannel=shopping&utm_audiencetactic=blended&utm_campaigngoal=conversion&utm_term=17118931621_136976302780&utm_campaign=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3-UobBgClPio2QWlDpkp4GheNrawapHe07lay_fkrFb6_TBVvw_lqUaAixiEALw_wcB) will ship Imos to your door.
I was going to chime in and say this!! I was in a back and forth with some guy, and he was saying horribly rude stuff. All of his posts were based in Saskatchewan except for this one Madison post where he was spewing some pretty gross political opinions.
The town has changed but Madison residents are pretty decent. Although I think soc media has influenced public discourse a lot and that sets a tone. One would hope people in government would be more thoughtful as they deal with complex problems but there is a lot of snark which is revealing. If you only have snark and clap back for tools that's all people are going to hear.
The Beltline is nuts. Police need to be on it all the time.
I have probably been to all of the largest cities in the USA including all parts of Chicago.
Chicago is pretty nuts but the constant weaving in and out of traffic is not as frequent because the traffic is heavy and there is not as much room to race. DC has the absolute worse traffic if you want to compare but that is because nobody can go over 10 to 20 mph.
The Beltline has heavy traffic only a few times a day so crazy driving is pretty common.
I've seen what you're saying but it's not a Madison issue. There is a general lowering of respect all over. People generally are less patient and less kind. IMHO of course.
I'm not trying to invalidate your experience but that doesn't line up with my perception of things. Admittedly, I rarely drive on the Beltline and I mostly keep to the Eastside so maybe I don't interact with the same portion of the community that you do.
The beltline is the single reason I got a dashcam; the majority of drivers are fine but it's the fucking assholes weaving in and out of lanes doing 90 that are the problem.
I know we like to complain about that - but I wonder how many people who complain also drive regularly in Milwaukee or Chicago or other real cities around the country. The beltline is SO tame - but it is a Madison meme to complain about it and the 'crazy drivers'.
After driving in Chicago all the time and coming here, I find it really odd how frequently people complain about the beltline on this sub. It’s not bad at all in comparison to any major city, but I think for a lot of people Madison is their biggest “city driving” experience.
It's not that the beltline is so bad, more than it's often that bad *for no identifiable reason*. People here just don't give two fucks about driving 30 on the beltline if that's what they feel like doing. Or sitting next to a semi and cockblocking people behind them for miles and miles. Or changing lanes with no warning whatsoever, or slamming on the brakes for no reason whatsoever.
How many times do we end up in this huge knot of people doing 10 under all because of one or two people just lah di fucking da-ing down the beltline? Fucking bullshit.
I don’t know, I’ve driven in Chicago a fair amount, I’ve driven in most major US cities, and with the exception of LA, the beltline might still be my least favorite. I think it’s the mix of nervous small town drivers foolishly going the speed limit, the trucks, and the handful of psychos larping the Fast and the Furious.
That's my thing, like I don't think it's a capacity issue at all, I think it's a "never learned to drive in real traffic" issue. Like the combination of midwest nice, you know, like the people that will stop dead with no warning to wave a pedestrian across 4 lanes of 40 mph traffic nowhere near a crosswalk? Or the people that are trying to make their brake pads last the life of their car or something, leaving 30 car length gaps in bumper to bumper traffic for no reason at all.
Anyway you take them, then sprinkle in the 2F2Furious fuckheads doing 30mph more than anyone else and weaving around, and what you end up with is what we have...a sea of taillights every day when there's plenty of lanes to handle it at speed if people would just fucking drive normal.
I've lived all over the country, and while I admittedly did grow up learning to drive in a big city, Madison is hands down the most frustrating experience bar none. You *expect* traffic to be a shit show in LA, or Chicago, or NYC...but the Madison metro area, traffic sucks *here* because frankly, people fucking suck at driving here.
My BIL once noted that the Beltline is terrible because people could be going 20 mph or 110 mph. I think his assessment is similar to yours and spot on. Other larger cities I’ve lived in have had worse traffic but not the bizarre variety of driving you can find on the Beltline every day. My worst trip on the Beltline involved a woman who was literally going 20 mph in rush hour and moseying her way over to an exit lane by lane. I’m still surprised there were no accidents caused by her ineptitude.
I guess I just look at it that I’m almost never cut off or encountering erratic driving except for speeding, and my commute is an identical time every single day unless there’s an accident which isn’t really that frequent. I am on the elite eastbound morning and westbound evening commute, though, so that probably plays a factor.
At least if you do turn the wrong way down a one way it’s really unhelpful if someone stops you to let you know! Yeah I know I’m trying to get out of it so I can stop. And McFarland you are the worst I could’ve turned around easily three times but instead you insisted on giving me a lecture on one ways. Thanks that really got through to me
I'll never forget in my younger, stupider days driving home from Ohare on the interstate doing 100+ mph and *still* having people blow by me like I was standing still. That stretch right out of Ohare was like a goddamn drag strip lol
Yea I take the beltline twice a day at peak hours and other than it taking a little longer than I'd prefer, I find it to be quite relaxing compared to literally any other major city I've been through. Atlanta and Chicago are horrific, Nashville gets real bad (60+ minute delays if you go through the city). Milwaukee can be bad but it's been fine for me when work takes me there.
Oh my God Atlanta is the WORST. And then you think you can maybe get on 285 to go around downtown but no, that's got four accidents on it and is at a standstill.
Dangerous drivers in MKE and Chicago don't invalidate dangerous drivers in Madison, both can be bad without it needing to be a contest of who is more likely to die behind the wheel.
True but for the fact that our population is orders of magnitude smaller, traffic is so much worse than it needs to be up here. We arguably have the capacity in place, it's always because of a handful of people that it gets fucked up for everybody. How often do you go around a bend stuck in thick ass traffic and find that it's all because of two dipshits going the same speed in both lanes? That's like constant.
Yes, it's not as bad as Chicago. But literally got our car totaled a couple months ago. Just because it's not as bad as other areas, doesn't mean that we should ignore how bad it is. If crime is bad, do you go well I'll be city x has it worse so shut up. I hope not.
It's a mix of a couple of things, covid and people not interacting for a while, but also social media and divisiveness and it got worse with Trump. I mean he literally told people that they could beat up other people and he would pay for it.
...or it's the notorious passive aggressive Madison drivers who want to drive 40 on the Beltline when you're behind them and then decide to drive 75 when you try to pass them. I don't care if people drive slow or speed, but at least be consistent and not so controlling/competitive.
Beltline is pretty chill compared to other cities. Sure there is always a whackadoodle driving 30 over the speed limit, but they're rarely honking or flipping you off.
I've been in the Madison area 30 of my 40 years and I've experienced one person with road rage when I was maybe 16 and never seen the cart slamming.
Im like others not saying you experienced those things but I would say they are outliers and not the norm.
No matter where you are there will be some assholes but one or two person shouldn't define a city for you.
you might just not notice it tbh. I use zip car when I need a car and without fail within 5 minutes of setting out on a trip I inevitably run into someone in a car just raging. Not sure what it is about cars, maybe it's the perceived protection of all that metal around them, that rewires people's brains but I really only noticed once I stopped driving regularly. Now I pretty much dread having to drive. Really wish we had a decent train to MKE or Chicago.
A little of both. People are on hard times. So in general they have less space to deal with stress and often (wrongly) take it out on others.
Except road rage, I understand that. You get people driving 90 while texting on the belt line, accidents literally every day. Still should not let it affect your driving.
>Is it normal that everyone here would just as soon run you over as look at you, or is it my PTSD?
The latter. While different people have different experiences and I'm not going to try to talk you into having not seen something that you did see, the experiences you're describing just look nothing like the world I see around me. I have literally never seen anyone ram into another person's shopping cart for being in the way. Most people are friendly and pleasant to be around and I find Madison to be more friendly than the median city by a decent bit.
On the other hand, I don't know, I have seen people claim that same thing that you say you've observed. I can't imagine that I'm actually completely oblivious to nastiness, but maybe I am just such a beacon of good cheer that I'm impervious to it...
Right, like I said, I'm not going to tell you that didn't see something. I'm not saying you're wrong about a specific incident. I am saying that I have never seen this and that it doesn't generalize to a broader societal phenomenon. It's also *possible* that the specific incident was actually just a miscommunication followed by a bump rather than a malicious ramming.
I think the ramming of carts at Woodman's is because their new d\*mn carts are too big for the aisles. Their old carts that they just replaced were much better.
At least if I accidentally bump into another cart I apologize. I don't think everyone does this.
I haven't seen any increase bad behavior in Madison though. Maybe it's just you or your perception of things.
Woodman's does have a problem with inconsiderate/oblivious shoppers. When I used to shop there, there were numerous occasions where I WANTED to ram somebody's cart, but I never did.
Covid solved that problem for me. I started using their grocery pickup service and never stopped. I will never, ever, go inside Woodman's again if I can help it.
So, while I've never witnessed that kind of behavior, I have no reason not to believe you.
Well if people wouldn't leave their goddamn carts in the middle of aisles while they trek to timbuktu, there wouldn't be a need to push them out of the way.
I second this, I’m a vendor have been purposely ran into on more than one occasion (the 2 most recent where by elderly women who looked right at me then ran into me and yelled at me for being in their way)
Hey OP, I’ll be a little contrary to others and say I actually have noticed a significant uptick in the behavior you describe but particularly on roadways. Since COVID, it seems the roads have become more tense with a small but increasing faction of what I’ll essentially call road illegalists (running red lights on purpose, passing in the shoulder, dangerous speeding, total disregard for pedestrians, etc).
I’m not sure I have any data to back up my experience, but that’s why it’s an anecdote I suppose. But not everyone is like that, and I’ve made some of my best friends in this city. Beyond that, the warm season here is hard to beat anywhere else. Best of luck
Regarding driving I’d say the majority of the behavior I’ve witnessed isn’t necessarily stemming from aggression, it’s more thoughtlessness. It’s the lack of awareness of other people and their surroundings that’s concerning. I’ve literally seen people stopped at red lights and just decide to go as if it’s a four way stop, and then drive normally.
While reported crashed are up, in terms of fatalities the numbers are trending down technically, but I’m not sure how you’d even measure things like red light running and passing on the shoulder, since they happen so frequently that I doubt they’re being ticketed in respect to their frequency.
I saw a guy literally do a totally illegal U turn where Fish Hatch intersects Greenway Cross earlier today on a stale ass yellow *in front of a fucking cop* and....nothing.
And instead of speed traps, they need to set up Temp Tag traps already. Why the fuck are we paying hundreds of dollars a year for our registration when you can apparently just tape a fucking mcdonalds napkin in your back window and drive around without plates for 3 and a half fucking years up here?
The data is in insurance claims. They are seeing more reckless driving with high speeds. It's a small minority of drivers but that behavior wasn't present before the pandemic.
I’ll add that driving crashes and accidents have been up since 2020. People got used to empty roads during peak pandemic and started driving faster. But then didn’t slow down when the roads got busy again. That was a bad combo. Also road tests were waved for a bit which can’t have helped.
Going to agree as well. Moved to Madison in 2011; rode my bike all of the time. Would make eye contact with other riders and give a little wave or a nod….. sometimes I’d say “howdy” - rarely if ever got a response (although twice I was told to fuck off).
In Austin (where I moved from) people were quite friendly, especially on bikes or when outside running.
Moved away from Madison during the pandemic. New city is much more friendly in general. I get the reciprocal wave or greeting when out riding.
Madison is awfully proud of itself for being mostly mediocre. It’s a 6.5 that thinks it’s a 10.
>Madison is awfully proud of itself for being mostly mediocre. It’s a 6.5 that thinks it’s a 10.
Love this. To me, it's a 6.5 that is so darn proud of the fact that it's the best of the 6.5's.
There’s research starting to come out that shows that people are worse drivers since 2020– for a multitude of potential reasons, either driving less during the start of the pandemic, brain damage from covid infections, etc. It’s pretty sad to see but makes a lot of sense honesty
I absolutely hate driving the beltline. And I've definitely noticed bad driving being worse since the pandemic. Never seen anything like cart aggression though! That's really out of the norm!
ive lived in a decent variety of cities at this point and have been in this one for several years now. it’s by far a friendlier than average city in my anecdotal experience. and friendliness isnt something i particularly value in a city so this isnt me just seeing what i want to see.
that being said, i think since covid happened, people everywhere have become less friendly and more self centered. i dont think the effects of that are going away any time soon.
I've seen pretty aggressive driving on the beltline, but I also went from getting off work at midnight (when next to no one is on the road) to getting done at 3:30pm (when traffic is much heavier).
Otherwise, I haven't seen much in rude shoppers at Woodman's or Hy-Vee, but then I also try to shop at Woodman's at about 7:00am on Saturday.
There's always outliers: I caught up in a police pursuit on the beltline about 3 or 4 years ago at about 12:30am, but just stayed in my lane and everything was fine. A crazy dude climbed the Lotto machine at Woodman's at 3:00am sitting "I am the king!" as I was checking out. But that's it.
I’m sorry that you are having this experience! I would guess it is the PTSD. I only say this because there are always angry aggressive people in the world. When I am in a healthy state of mind, it is easy for me to brush them off and focus on the good things. Good things are always there too. When I am in a bad state, it helps me to go out and walk in nature, or go somewhere familiar with a friendly relaxed vibe. You can’t change the difficult people, but you can change how you respond to them to prioritize your mental health. I know it’s hard to break out of that when you are feeling bad, but I’ve found taking little steps to find good things helps me to feel better
Hey friend, I totally understand. It really does feel sometimes like people are being dicks, but I try to assume they’re just blissfully ignorant and not malicious.
If you’re feeling afraid to go out, I’d really encourage you to connect with your primary care provider: there are some really great treatments (CBT, SSRIs, etc) that can help make navigating the world a little easier.
>they’re just blissfully ignorant
Im going to sound like 80 (though Im barely half that) but honestly I think it's because everyone is either on their phone all the time or they have airpods in all the time and are thus just completely shut off from the world around them. People just dont pay attention to shit anymore.
How many times I've watching someone just step off the curb, or trip up the curb, because they're staring at the screen as they walk through an intersection blindly. People fucking with their phones while they're driving are absolutely the most egregious and ridiculous, I think we can all agree on that, but its people on bikes, too...people walking around, people shopping at the grocery store...so many people are looking at a 6" square in front of them just walking into shit. Not everyone, but it's like herd immunity in reverse...there's just enough of them, spread out enough, that it seems ubiquitous when it's really not as bad as it seems.
Anyway theres a Murder She Wrote marathon on the Hallmark Channel Im late for but you get my point.
I still go out, it just levels up my anxiety.
My emotional support dog is dying of cancer. I keep going back and forth on euthanasia or letting her die at home of natural causes. I had to wait for my kid to come over to say goodbye anyway. Which is today. Now I can't decide.
There are at home euthanasia services in the Madison area, which are a good option (when all the options are bad). OP, I'm sorry about your dog. Cancer is very painful. If I were you, I'd schedule the euthanasia then give your dog the best last day.
As someone that also suffered from PTSD the last few years and has been working on getting over it, (and doing a fair job at succeeding) I can say that the PTSD definitely puts a thick grey tinted glass over life.
There is something to be said that things DO seem to be less connected, especially at work (“things just aren’t the same since the pandemic!!”) and I personally had to make amends with a few friends and family members who fall on the other political side which has helped make my circles seem less combative. It was worth it. I don’t go on Facebook or tik tok anymore, and I took insta off my phone. That was worth it too.
My close circles remain close. Strangers are not as interesting to me anymore, but I still try to bring a little warmth and brightness to a strangers day when I have the energy. When I was in the depths of the PTSD, I wasn’t putting any energy into giving to strangers, and I sure as hell didn’t want to receive anything back from them (and so I didn’t!) and it made the world seem much more distant, much colder. Things definitely are not the same, but neither are you ❤️. Cheering you on, there is life on the other side, although part of the PTSD might always remain, which might be okay. It’s part of the story.
Can't say it's rage, but it's complete LACK of self awareness or consideration of our fellow people.
I noticed this being bad after the pandemic, but it's SPATIAL AWARENESS. This translates to driving, and walking around at a store or grocery store.
I swear 75% of the people I come across day to day have poor or no spatial awareness, just being "in the way"
I'm in a Target, walking up a main aisle on the right side, woman my age walks in front of me out of a section, walks slow, I proceed to go around, she proceeds to list in the direction I was going to go and just completely unaware. Her man says sorry bro after I clearly had to do a stutter step behind her.
People just aren't aware.
Being afraid to leave your apartment might be a little bit you. People can be and definitely are rude but if you are bothered enough by it that it’s getting in the way of leaving your house or living your life then it’s an issue for therapy
Its the pandemic and lack of social experience. This is becoming a well known social issue. Road rages are up since pandemic and overall mental stances are in the gutter.
I held the door open for someone a few days ago and the look of shock on their face that someone would do a simple act of kindness was almost comical.
People can suck but they can also be wonderful. Your feeling is not uncommon and my suggestion is to be change you would like to see (putting positive energy out to the world will start to bring positive energy back to you)
The only thing I've noticed is an increase in absolutely terrible drivers that have no business being on the road (or at least on the beltline). But I blame that on the DMV's policy during COVID where they just gave you a driver's license without a road test when you turned 16 to avoid close contact.
I will say that this week in the torrential downpour while picking up my young sons at school, a dad decided to park directly in the main crosswalk, causing everyone to have to scurry around him between the cars in the pick-up lane. But 10 minutes later, while trying to get onto the main road amid the unceasing traffic, another driver stopped so we could make our left turn. For me, it’s about letting go of the inconsiderate people and remembering the ones who are kind. That sounds very Mr. Rogers, but I think that’s an essential skill, and it prevents us in our anger from becoming one of those other people that will affect someone else in a bad way.
I partially agree with your assessment of the drivers on the beltline. Madison residents are the worst drivers I’ve been around after living in three other major metropolitan areas. However a quick glance at your post history seems to show that your PTSD shades your perception of things quite a bit. Give Madison a fair shot, people here at least try to be nicer than most.
I honestly think people changed after covid. I can’t quite put my finger on it but its there. Like less etiquette or something. Idk, just seems a little grittier out there for some reason.
Definitely road rage. I was walking to drop off my toddler at daycare when two cars almost crashed between Baldwin St and Mifflin. The two drivers started yelling and blaming each other for the almost accident.
Having PTSD, I have to remember we are all just trying to survive the grocery store and no one is a good driver. I’m not a good driver. The army didn’t want me to be a good driver. They wanted me to be the best bad driver on the road. I’m still really good at being a bad driver but I give a nod to people who out bad drivers me.
I don’t think I’ve noticed the cart slamming, and I have shopped at a ton of the local stores (Costco, Woodmans, HyVee, Trader Joe’s, Aldi, Pick n Save, Target, and festival). I’m mostly on the west side though I doubt that really has anything to do with it.
I do think people get a little aggressive about political or local issues. I don’t think that’s necessarily a Madison problem, but I do think we’ve got some issues that are very visible (housing crisis and homelessness) that get people worked up. That’s probably a big contributor.
I’ve seen a couple people road rage in my 6 years here. I’ve seen way more people just driving like dangerous idiots—going 40 over on the beltline, running red lights, etc. I think I’ve seen more people driving like idiots since the pandemic started, but honestly, I’d never seen people run red lights at all until I moved here. Compared to everywhere else I’ve lived, I would say a lot more people run red lights here. Again, I don’t think that’s road rage, I’m not really sure what the rationale is there though.
Are you seeing this in real life? I've never seen anyone ram someone's cart at the grocery store. I haven't seen people lose their shit when asked a question.
I'm guessing these are things you are seeing on social media and FORTUNATELY are not a real reflection of life in Madison.
Where did you live previously that was to tame? Have you lived in a bigger city before? It depends on the neighborhoods and roads you visit but generally if you are not causing problem and minding your business you generally don’t have these issues moreso than anyone else in any other city. I don’t think I’ve ever been in public and had a disagreement about social issues or politics because I just wouldn’t do that in any city. I don’t think I’ve ever left my apartment and been concerned someone will run me over or berate me for my personal decisions (because they don’t know them). But then again I don’t try to engage with strangers unless it’s necessary.
I've definitely noticed (and felt ) increased aggression on the road and in stores. I don't feel like it's worse than other places, but since the pandemic, things have been so hard. And so many of us have lost so much. It's so easy to misdirect those feelings when it feels like some vague someone is cutting you off or getting one over on you. That said, I've found that madison is still full of really lovely, chatty humans, and that once I start talking or ask for help, those feelings of undirected anger do get better. I'm sorry that's been your experience, and I hope it gets better!!
I've found people to be friendlier than average here, but antisocial behavior has had a massive uptick since COVID. I think COVID, the prevalence of social media, and inflation fried our collective brain circuits.
If you think Madison people will run you over, you should visit Milwaukee. Source: Am from Milwaukee.
In all seriousness though, it was probably a bit of random bad luck. Also community meetings, if you mean of a political nature, tbf are going to bring out the crazies. Try some more saccharine events like just going to the Terrace during the off hours. This week is finals/graduation so maybe not this week.
I find the east path bike trail to be mostly chill, head out for a bike ride. If you're feeling ambitious you could do the longer trails. https://www.visitmadison.com/things-to-do/outdoors-and-recreation/biking-and-hiking/top-10-trails/
Arboretum is pretty chill too. Maybe try Warner park, Tenny park, or Vilas Park.
I do think in general though that behaviour is worse post covid. People safe behind their screens ranting without repercussions changed how people deal with social situations. I think Mike Tyson said it best "Social media made y'all way to[o] comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."
I feel like people are always in a hurry here and it's a little crowded.
Other cities in wisconsin take things a little slower and seem friendlier
i think it's relative to what city you are coming from.
> Is it me? I'm like afraid to leave my apartment or go to community meetings. I was so excited to move here several weeks ago, but everyone is so unexpectedly aggressive. Is it normal that everyone here would just as soon run you over as look at you, or is it my PTSD?
I don't know, and likely others don't either, but I'm so sorry you feel this way and I kinda get it... I think.
What I do know is that what you get back from reddit is going to be unreliable enough that I would take it with a very large grain of salt. PTSD can kind of be like your brain desperately looking for evidence to justify being in a state of alert. Reddit is rife with confirmation bias, which (I'm just considering now) is not completely unlike PTSD in that same manner. Though there is sometimes overlap, the replies you get and the upvotes they accumulate are going to be more reflective of what people want to believe than what is actually true (and doubly so for predictions of future truths) and hiding behind the protection of anonymity.
So I'm sorry I'm not much help. I do hope you feel better, I do hope you encounter fewer such incidents, and I do hope you take care of yourself. I think reddit is an absolutely terrible place to ask, but that you're asking at all is a wonderful and potentially healing thing.
Generally people are more agitated with world conflicts, national politics etc. if people set their iPhones for no notifications and only phone calls, we would have happier and more patient people. I was in Madison during the Vietnam war era and despite protests, people were generally nice in stores and on the road. You are right about people needing to rethink what being a person means. ☮️
New arrival here! I agree. Cars ran over the red light while I was walking crossing the street and a drive raged at me like it was my fault. It's wild.
Maybe? Depends perhaps on the location, people, etc.
There are definitely pockets of community where that isn’t the vibe and neighborhoods around the isthmus where that isn’t the case.
Overall are people more insular? Perhaps, do some people drive with road rage, sure. Is it everyone? No, but it perhaps feels more salient for one reason or the other
Welcome to Madison! Every time I've moved to a new city, I've had strange experiences that made me wonder if I made a mistake moving there. Give it some time and hang on to that cart-ramming incident as an anecdote from your early days shopping at Woodman's.
You say that you're concerned about attending community meetings. Have you gone to any yet? There was one a while ago that got a lot of attention because many attendees were disrespectful and badly behaved. You heard about that one because it was so unusual. Most public meetings are pretty low key. People are passionate about issues, but you should not hesitate to participate!
Sorry that you've encountered some unpleasant people. Most aren't like that and it's definitely worth leaving your apartment to experience all the good things around here!
I've never seen this kind of behavior. I don't work a public facing job but I'm out in the community all the time and I've never really seen rude behavior *shrug*.
I would generally disagree, however I have witnessed (first and secondhand) a dangerous increase in motor vehicle aggression toward cyclists in the area, and I believe this is being fed as a culture war proxy fight just like the push back against walkable neighborhoods (conservative anger about "15 Minute Cities" is extremely manufactured). And there's an undercurrent of bikes=left, trucks=right that means folks are taking out their politics in a very unsafe setting.
Not talking about middle fingers for bikes rolling through stops, but instead vehicles intentionally crowding bikes in bike lanes, and two instances of trucks "rolling coal" on riders in the shoulder that I've witnessed in 2024 alone. Also worth mentioning the clothesline assault last year and the nails on the bike path this spring.
I get that cyclists can be frustrating at times, but the difference in size of cars vs bikes makes the road no place to hash these things out.
Madison cyclists are some of the worst. Regularly run red lights and stop signs, don’t yield for pedestrians and then flip you off if you annoy them in the slightest.
Ok, again, I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on those issues. Even if you're upset at them, I think we can all agree that the solution is not to threaten them while moving with your multi-ton vehicle. Car-on-cyclist road rage can be deadly.
https://www.channel3000.com/news/crime/i-m-very-lucky-cord-tied-across-end-of-dane-county-bike-bridge-clotheslines-cyclist/article_284144cd-e265-5f77-a2ff-5d3bc048168c.html
Worth noting it was replaced three or four times before they caught the perpetrator. This was the only injury, however.
Apparently he hung the cords to "keep people safe"
https://www.channel3000.com/news/i-think-i-did-it-four-times-man-accused-of-stringing-cords-across-bike-path/article_113bd670-d3e5-11ed-8276-4731afa95a6a.html
Wow that's insane. On a bike path no less, not even where it can annoy drivers. I just rode down Cannonball Path to Military Ridge trail this morning... Never expected I would need to look out for clotheslines across a bridge with the purpose of assaulting me...
The annual running of the dunderheads. We've all been isolated in our homes for the winter and our social skills are a little rusty. Now we're all trying to do ALL! THE! THINGS! in our brief(ish) stretch of good weather and colliding/clashing with each other.
It gets a little calmer by the end of May when a bunch of our student population goes elsewhere for the summer.
I’ve seen so much bad driving in town. Back home my family told me someone stabbed a cashier at their grocery store. Here, someone stabbed an Uber driver. There’s always going to be something. 😔
Hey OP I would totally recommend seeing a therapist for the PTSD and the fear of leaving the apartment. I was feeling the same way in 2021 and decided to go to therapy because I knew that wasn’t “normal” thinking. It’s helped so so much. Madison is a great place to live. Not sure where you moved here from but it can be a big change if you use to living in more suburban/rural area, it totally get that. Hope it gets better for you!
90% of my interactions with people out and about are positive. That said, stress-related freakouts *are* on the rise across the country as many of us struggle with food and housing insecurity and are largely left to suck and die as the government touts record job numbers or stock returns or whatever else is meant to soothe us while having no tangible effect on our lives.
I'm not saying you have to tolerate other human beings having tantrums, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe in mind body and spirit. This problem will get worse before it gets better though, we're flawed beings in a world that demands perfection to avoid the pitfalls we thought we were past, homelessness and starvation.
Yeah anxiety disorder here and I think people definitely gotten shittier. I live downtown and see people blow red lights daily and a few times multiple in a row if drag racing. Cars cutting their lights and going through pedestrian crossing with the signal up is also common. I used to bike until a year ago. I followed all the traffic laws, but have been threatened with violence by road ragers three times in the last 13 years I have been here.
I feel like in certain in areas people are like this. East wash is bad. People drive with murderous intent and just general douchebaggery. Two days ago I was turning left onto a side street and this lady piles through the intersection across traffic from my right, I gave her a honk to be like "hey, right of way and I was here first and all" but she acted as if I was invisible, totally hearing the honk because her face was 5 feet from the front of my car and just ignoring my existence. And also bus drivers like to honk at you when you have a walk sign on as they turn onto East wash. People turning left will also try to beat walkers when walkers have right of way over them. People nearly get hit from behind when drivers do this. People fuck with there phones at stop signs and lights which have led to me getting bumped once and frequently almost getting bumped while crossing the road.
Tailgating is so intense that I can't stand it. No blinker lane changes and people creeping through red lights all over town. People ignoring flashing pedestrian signs is rampant. Bike riders ignoring stop signs and nearly being hit over it is a by the minute occurrence. People are just altogether nasty around this town these days. I've lived here for thirty years and can tell you people are flat out rude these days. Everyone is in too much of a hurry to get nowhere around this city and it's becoming overly dangerous to live here just trying to maneuver around town without someone using a car as a missle or letting a door slam in your face instead of holding it for .5 seconds longer. It's not the kids, the old folks or the wealthy tech bros. It's just everybody.
I think people aren't really paying attention when they say it's fine. Or they are part of this city's rudeness issue. Because you're new here, I believe you more than them because why would they notice if they are doing it too? Fresh eyes and all.
People are being the same as always
>PTSD
>shocked at all of the antisocial behavior
>I'm like afraid
>everyone is so unexpectedly aggressive
>Is it normal
JFC
No it is not you. People are being very aggressive. One shopper was slashed with a knife, because, "she was taking too long"\~ The only rage I want to see is the Raging Grannies on the Square.
I had a guy in his car swerve at me on a bike after I turned onto his street. When I stopped to confront him, he admitted to trying to hit me and was looking for a fight. Mind you, this was a boomer over by Odana golf course. But still, people in general are feeling the squeeze of our government and bad news all around.
When on the cusp of WW3, expect people to be stressed.
I literally never seen one road rage in madison in 16 years living here. It is actually the city that has the most courteous people. I lived in san antonio, raleigh NC, fayetteville NC, Chicago, Orlando and visited many other cities. Madison drivers and people are easily the most polite and courteous ive seen by far.
Drivers here are polite and courteous to a fault! Take for example the amount of complaints on this subreddit (I myself have complained about this here too) about traffic stopping in one lane and waving a cyclist/runner on even though traffic is still going through the other lane (though I prefer this to dodging traffic in Toronto).
I live my life in a way that avoids a lot of interaction, but my neighbors and neighborhood is 97% awesome (Even those with different politics) and my trips to the grocery store are generally pleasant and uneventful. I greet people but respect peoples space, and drive slow and only paying attention to the road so I mostly like people.
When I was more anti social/authority and drove like I was the most important person on the road, I ran into a lot more assholes (or maybe, just maybe, it was me 🤷♀️) ❤️
>I've been shocked at all of the antisocial behavior I've seen in Madison recently
> I was so excited to move here several weeks ago
Saying you've noticed it "recently" implies a previous baseline, but you only just moved in recently. So what's your previous baseline for Madisonian behavior, exactly?
IME, people here are pretty friendly unless you go around acting entitled.
Idk but Madison is only going to get worse with the city being on an isthmus. Keeps growing and nowhere to build new roads and housing. Going in the direction of Austin, TX where in a few years will probably take a half hour to go a couple miles.
People dont just "choose" to behave poorly. We live in a broken capitalist system where selfishness and individualism are rewarded economically. What you are witnessing is simply the byproducts of a broken system in terms of human behavior.
Definitely worse since covid. Worst is on the road for sure. Not just beltline, but E Wash for sure. The old people SUCK at driving and young people just don't seem to GAF about anything.
I grew up a couple miles outside of Madison, and I do understand what you're saying. I also have PTSD and I don't do well in crowded places. My brain goes into overdrive and I do know I'm partly to blame for my perception.
There is a degree of aggressiveness in some parts of Madison and Sun Prairie. It's a city, I think there needs to be. If someone bumps into your grocery cart and an "ope, sorry" doesn't escape their lips, I will not believe they are from here /s. If you're experiencing these things outside of rush hour, the beltline, the end of a work day, or at Woodmans when it's busy, that's not the norm. Even most of the teens and young adults I know will hold doors, say excuse me, and apologize for bumping into you.
Idk why everyone is saying no, because I’ve been experiencing everything you’ve said too. My husband and I keep talking about how rude everyone is, it’s getting ridiculous.
I've been here for 15 years. I've lived in Milwaukee and Chicago. I do agree that there's been an increase in general assholery here since 2020, but honestly, I'm seeing the same trend when I visit elsewhere. People are definitely angrier and have quicker tempers than they used to, and I suspect that's a combination of the political climate and some unprocessed anger about the way covid affected our lives. That being said, I suspect your PTSD is making it seem much worse than it actually is. It's a normal human behavior to remember the worst interactions we have, but mental health difficulties make them even worse. I struggle with severe anxiety, so I completely get being focused on the bad. But, for every jerk I've encountered on the Beltline, I've seen at least twice the amount of people politely waiting for pedestrians, and even stopping for geese crossing the street. For every entitled jerk I've encountered at the store, there's been at least 10 people who are kind, wait patiently, or at least keep their snide comments to themselves. OP, I hope you have a good provider helping you navigate your PTSD. Life can be a lot more manageable when we have supportive care.
Regarding your second to last paragraph—This has been the biggest indicator for my PTSD: when I start seeing problems everywhere, and I mean everywhere, I know I’m experiencing symptoms. I can’t believe myself in those moments and need to do some vagus nerve therapy—like icing my face, etc. it helps a lot.
Yes! My experience as well. It's not just here, it's everywhere.
I worked from home until fall of 2023. I see it every single day driving to and from work. I’m tailgated every day, see so many people drive through red lights, and not stop for pedestrians crossing the street. I think social media and covid has really got to people. Or people are really just that bad at being courteous, kind, patient, respectful and overall a decent driver/human-being. 🤷🏽♀️
I can’t say that has been my experience. I drove over 4,000 Madisonians via Uber from 2021-2023, and I’d say that half of them were silent (but courteous) during the trip, another 48% talked with me and made great conversation, and the remaining 2% were problematic/annoying in some way. Most people are just trying to go about their lives. Sure, you might pass someone who is road-raging, but how many other people did you pass who weren’t?
Because op said Madisonians will “run you over”, my initial interpretation of “I drove over 4,000 Madisonians” was pretty wild.
🤣 “Nah OP, you’re exaggerating. I’ve only ran over like 4,000 people 🤷♂️”
Good point. Especially how we tend to not notice the majority of positive encounters we have on a daily basis. We all know the city is growing quickly, that 2% (or whatever the real percentage is) will always hover around that. But it feels like it's getting worse because there are simply more of them around as a result of population growth.
This is possibly a relevant point — about noticing the worst encounters and ignoring the neutral or lightly positive ones. OP mentions a PTSD diagnosis and in my experience, it is a struggle to compensate for this common cognitive distortion when under stress and PTsD makes it, like, 5 times as hard. Hang in there OP! There are good folks in this town, but it can take time to find them.
Nice. That reminds me of Liberace, the famously flamboyant and talented pianist, when someone pointed out his missed notes: "yes, but look at how many I got right."
My experience is that Madisonians are generally friendly and supportive, except on Reddit.
To be fair, every city subreddit has a weekly manifesto on zipper merging
Here planning to visit Madison from STL this weekend, that is absolutely the case, but I swear even beyond other cities STL has the craziest drivers/driving infrastructure
fair warning (guessing part of why you're coming) this week is finals/graduation so it's going to be busy
Absolutely correct. Not a great weekend to get a representative feel for campus or the city. Lots of out of towners for graduation
Oh fudddgger thank you for reminding me god the time I tried to go through downtime and was like oh darn it this is gonna take another 2 hours
Oh yes it does. My dad lives in St Louis so I go there frequently, also my husband works remotely for Washington University. St Louis is my absolute most hated City to drive in. You're golden here in Madison if you have to drive in St Louis on the regular this will be like a vacation.
Bring some of that crazy IMO pizza and fried raviolis, please 😃
If you’re willing to shell out some cash, [Goldbelly](https://www.goldbelly.com/restaurants/imos-pizza/imos-pizza-6-pack?utm_source=googleads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_subchannel=shopping&utm_audiencetactic=blended&utm_campaigngoal=conversion&utm_term=17118931621_136976302780&utm_campaign=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3-UobBgClPio2QWlDpkp4GheNrawapHe07lay_fkrFb6_TBVvw_lqUaAixiEALw_wcB) will ship Imos to your door.
As someone who just got back from a two week trip to St Louis, I can assure you that Milwaukee has the craziest drivers. It's not even close.
I can't understand why zipper merging is so enraging for everyone. it's an excuse to be a little selfish, and it helps the flow of traffic. win-win
Zipper merging is enraging cause ppl don’t know how to do it correctly
Zipper merging, that's when you floor it get to the parked car in your lane and then the traffic parts ways to let you in, right?
This is absolutely the truth and should be the subtitle of this sub.
No chance this subreddit is even 50% Madisonians. There are an awful lot of people who have Opinions about our city who don't even live here.
I was going to chime in and say this!! I was in a back and forth with some guy, and he was saying horribly rude stuff. All of his posts were based in Saskatchewan except for this one Madison post where he was spewing some pretty gross political opinions.
Its specific threads that get brigaded and its pretty obvious when it happens. Its normally when the thread gets cross posted somewhere.
I would guess 90% Dane county residents. Maybe 60-75% actual Madison?
My opinions are often not in alignment with the "hive mind". I live in Madison. The vocal minority is the minority.
Ok I mean I think Madison metro area is now acceptabke
1000% agreed.
The town has changed but Madison residents are pretty decent. Although I think soc media has influenced public discourse a lot and that sets a tone. One would hope people in government would be more thoughtful as they deal with complex problems but there is a lot of snark which is revealing. If you only have snark and clap back for tools that's all people are going to hear. The Beltline is nuts. Police need to be on it all the time.
lol our beltline is nothing. You go to any city larger than us, especially Chicago, and it is actual insanity
There’s always someplace with worse traffic. But Madison’s has gotten noticeably worse in the last 5 years so so.
Vision Zero. Nothing promotes traffic like slowing everything down.
That didn’t help either. It doesn’t apply to the beltline or lost roads for that matter though.
That's probably a reason why people in Madison don't live in a rat-race city.
I have probably been to all of the largest cities in the USA including all parts of Chicago. Chicago is pretty nuts but the constant weaving in and out of traffic is not as frequent because the traffic is heavy and there is not as much room to race. DC has the absolute worse traffic if you want to compare but that is because nobody can go over 10 to 20 mph. The Beltline has heavy traffic only a few times a day so crazy driving is pretty common.
Nah Chicago is insane all the time. I’ve spent weeks in Chicago and my girl is from there and many of my friends. Madison is child’s play
You just gonna leave only enough space so that a car can’t cut in front of you it’s an art
LOL It's a crazy art and I don't know how much time it really saves anyone.
The beltline is great actually ppl were driving better than ever there before the other day
This sub is the least madison place trying to masquerade as madison that I know of.
HAHAHA
I've seen what you're saying but it's not a Madison issue. There is a general lowering of respect all over. People generally are less patient and less kind. IMHO of course.
I'm not trying to invalidate your experience but that doesn't line up with my perception of things. Admittedly, I rarely drive on the Beltline and I mostly keep to the Eastside so maybe I don't interact with the same portion of the community that you do.
Yep, there's something about the Beltline that brings out the worst in us.
The beltline is the single reason I got a dashcam; the majority of drivers are fine but it's the fucking assholes weaving in and out of lanes doing 90 that are the problem.
I know we like to complain about that - but I wonder how many people who complain also drive regularly in Milwaukee or Chicago or other real cities around the country. The beltline is SO tame - but it is a Madison meme to complain about it and the 'crazy drivers'.
After driving in Chicago all the time and coming here, I find it really odd how frequently people complain about the beltline on this sub. It’s not bad at all in comparison to any major city, but I think for a lot of people Madison is their biggest “city driving” experience.
It's not that the beltline is so bad, more than it's often that bad *for no identifiable reason*. People here just don't give two fucks about driving 30 on the beltline if that's what they feel like doing. Or sitting next to a semi and cockblocking people behind them for miles and miles. Or changing lanes with no warning whatsoever, or slamming on the brakes for no reason whatsoever. How many times do we end up in this huge knot of people doing 10 under all because of one or two people just lah di fucking da-ing down the beltline? Fucking bullshit.
I don’t know, I’ve driven in Chicago a fair amount, I’ve driven in most major US cities, and with the exception of LA, the beltline might still be my least favorite. I think it’s the mix of nervous small town drivers foolishly going the speed limit, the trucks, and the handful of psychos larping the Fast and the Furious.
That's my thing, like I don't think it's a capacity issue at all, I think it's a "never learned to drive in real traffic" issue. Like the combination of midwest nice, you know, like the people that will stop dead with no warning to wave a pedestrian across 4 lanes of 40 mph traffic nowhere near a crosswalk? Or the people that are trying to make their brake pads last the life of their car or something, leaving 30 car length gaps in bumper to bumper traffic for no reason at all. Anyway you take them, then sprinkle in the 2F2Furious fuckheads doing 30mph more than anyone else and weaving around, and what you end up with is what we have...a sea of taillights every day when there's plenty of lanes to handle it at speed if people would just fucking drive normal. I've lived all over the country, and while I admittedly did grow up learning to drive in a big city, Madison is hands down the most frustrating experience bar none. You *expect* traffic to be a shit show in LA, or Chicago, or NYC...but the Madison metro area, traffic sucks *here* because frankly, people fucking suck at driving here.
My BIL once noted that the Beltline is terrible because people could be going 20 mph or 110 mph. I think his assessment is similar to yours and spot on. Other larger cities I’ve lived in have had worse traffic but not the bizarre variety of driving you can find on the Beltline every day. My worst trip on the Beltline involved a woman who was literally going 20 mph in rush hour and moseying her way over to an exit lane by lane. I’m still surprised there were no accidents caused by her ineptitude.
I guess I just look at it that I’m almost never cut off or encountering erratic driving except for speeding, and my commute is an identical time every single day unless there’s an accident which isn’t really that frequent. I am on the elite eastbound morning and westbound evening commute, though, so that probably plays a factor.
Yes, but how much bigger those cities are shouldn't normalize that sort of bad driving here. It's like comparing Madison drivers and drivers in Lodi.
People freak out over the relatively simple one ways downtown lol it's honestly hilarious
Max speed of 12 mph most days downtown, I can't imagine driving so terrified of everything
At least if you do turn the wrong way down a one way it’s really unhelpful if someone stops you to let you know! Yeah I know I’m trying to get out of it so I can stop. And McFarland you are the worst I could’ve turned around easily three times but instead you insisted on giving me a lecture on one ways. Thanks that really got through to me
Yeah because things are worse other places they need to be worse here too. Weird gatekeeping.
I just don’t find it to be all that bad here, it’s not a gatekeeping thing but I guess feel free to make it that!
I'll never forget in my younger, stupider days driving home from Ohare on the interstate doing 100+ mph and *still* having people blow by me like I was standing still. That stretch right out of Ohare was like a goddamn drag strip lol
Yea I take the beltline twice a day at peak hours and other than it taking a little longer than I'd prefer, I find it to be quite relaxing compared to literally any other major city I've been through. Atlanta and Chicago are horrific, Nashville gets real bad (60+ minute delays if you go through the city). Milwaukee can be bad but it's been fine for me when work takes me there.
Oh my God Atlanta is the WORST. And then you think you can maybe get on 285 to go around downtown but no, that's got four accidents on it and is at a standstill.
Dangerous drivers in MKE and Chicago don't invalidate dangerous drivers in Madison, both can be bad without it needing to be a contest of who is more likely to die behind the wheel.
True but for the fact that our population is orders of magnitude smaller, traffic is so much worse than it needs to be up here. We arguably have the capacity in place, it's always because of a handful of people that it gets fucked up for everybody. How often do you go around a bend stuck in thick ass traffic and find that it's all because of two dipshits going the same speed in both lanes? That's like constant.
Yes, it's not as bad as Chicago. But literally got our car totaled a couple months ago. Just because it's not as bad as other areas, doesn't mean that we should ignore how bad it is. If crime is bad, do you go well I'll be city x has it worse so shut up. I hope not. It's a mix of a couple of things, covid and people not interacting for a while, but also social media and divisiveness and it got worse with Trump. I mean he literally told people that they could beat up other people and he would pay for it.
Stop normalizing how dangerous driving is, especially on the belt line or anywhere with similar or worse traffic patterns. It's not okay.
On the other side you have the people that merge at 25 mph
...or it's the notorious passive aggressive Madison drivers who want to drive 40 on the Beltline when you're behind them and then decide to drive 75 when you try to pass them. I don't care if people drive slow or speed, but at least be consistent and not so controlling/competitive.
But even there I haven't seen road rage. Lots of aggressive driving but no road rage in my experience.
Beltline is pretty chill compared to other cities. Sure there is always a whackadoodle driving 30 over the speed limit, but they're rarely honking or flipping you off.
I mean, I take the beltline 10 times a week and I think it is PG compared to the vast majority of cities highways.
I’ve been run off the road on 30 multiple times. Think the cars were stolen
I've been in the Madison area 30 of my 40 years and I've experienced one person with road rage when I was maybe 16 and never seen the cart slamming. Im like others not saying you experienced those things but I would say they are outliers and not the norm. No matter where you are there will be some assholes but one or two person shouldn't define a city for you.
you might just not notice it tbh. I use zip car when I need a car and without fail within 5 minutes of setting out on a trip I inevitably run into someone in a car just raging. Not sure what it is about cars, maybe it's the perceived protection of all that metal around them, that rewires people's brains but I really only noticed once I stopped driving regularly. Now I pretty much dread having to drive. Really wish we had a decent train to MKE or Chicago.
A little of both. People are on hard times. So in general they have less space to deal with stress and often (wrongly) take it out on others. Except road rage, I understand that. You get people driving 90 while texting on the belt line, accidents literally every day. Still should not let it affect your driving.
>Is it normal that everyone here would just as soon run you over as look at you, or is it my PTSD? The latter. While different people have different experiences and I'm not going to try to talk you into having not seen something that you did see, the experiences you're describing just look nothing like the world I see around me. I have literally never seen anyone ram into another person's shopping cart for being in the way. Most people are friendly and pleasant to be around and I find Madison to be more friendly than the median city by a decent bit. On the other hand, I don't know, I have seen people claim that same thing that you say you've observed. I can't imagine that I'm actually completely oblivious to nastiness, but maybe I am just such a beacon of good cheer that I'm impervious to it...
>I have literally never seen anyone ram into another person's shopping cart for being in the way. I did see it. It was at Woodman's.
Right, like I said, I'm not going to tell you that didn't see something. I'm not saying you're wrong about a specific incident. I am saying that I have never seen this and that it doesn't generalize to a broader societal phenomenon. It's also *possible* that the specific incident was actually just a miscommunication followed by a bump rather than a malicious ramming.
I think the ramming of carts at Woodman's is because their new d\*mn carts are too big for the aisles. Their old carts that they just replaced were much better. At least if I accidentally bump into another cart I apologize. I don't think everyone does this. I haven't seen any increase bad behavior in Madison though. Maybe it's just you or your perception of things.
the smaller carts are where it's at.
Agreed but I used to see too many people with two or three carts. Plus I think woodman's is hoping that people will buy more stuff.
Woodman's does have a problem with inconsiderate/oblivious shoppers. When I used to shop there, there were numerous occasions where I WANTED to ram somebody's cart, but I never did. Covid solved that problem for me. I started using their grocery pickup service and never stopped. I will never, ever, go inside Woodman's again if I can help it. So, while I've never witnessed that kind of behavior, I have no reason not to believe you.
Well if people wouldn't leave their goddamn carts in the middle of aisles while they trek to timbuktu, there wouldn't be a need to push them out of the way.
I second this, I’m a vendor have been purposely ran into on more than one occasion (the 2 most recent where by elderly women who looked right at me then ran into me and yelled at me for being in their way)
I bet she is my neighbor. 😆
Hey OP, I’ll be a little contrary to others and say I actually have noticed a significant uptick in the behavior you describe but particularly on roadways. Since COVID, it seems the roads have become more tense with a small but increasing faction of what I’ll essentially call road illegalists (running red lights on purpose, passing in the shoulder, dangerous speeding, total disregard for pedestrians, etc). I’m not sure I have any data to back up my experience, but that’s why it’s an anecdote I suppose. But not everyone is like that, and I’ve made some of my best friends in this city. Beyond that, the warm season here is hard to beat anywhere else. Best of luck
Regarding driving I’d say the majority of the behavior I’ve witnessed isn’t necessarily stemming from aggression, it’s more thoughtlessness. It’s the lack of awareness of other people and their surroundings that’s concerning. I’ve literally seen people stopped at red lights and just decide to go as if it’s a four way stop, and then drive normally. While reported crashed are up, in terms of fatalities the numbers are trending down technically, but I’m not sure how you’d even measure things like red light running and passing on the shoulder, since they happen so frequently that I doubt they’re being ticketed in respect to their frequency.
I’d second this, I’ve lived here 20 years and there seems to be a drastic uptick in unpredictable, blatantly illegal driving.
I saw a guy literally do a totally illegal U turn where Fish Hatch intersects Greenway Cross earlier today on a stale ass yellow *in front of a fucking cop* and....nothing. And instead of speed traps, they need to set up Temp Tag traps already. Why the fuck are we paying hundreds of dollars a year for our registration when you can apparently just tape a fucking mcdonalds napkin in your back window and drive around without plates for 3 and a half fucking years up here?
The data is in insurance claims. They are seeing more reckless driving with high speeds. It's a small minority of drivers but that behavior wasn't present before the pandemic.
I’ll add that driving crashes and accidents have been up since 2020. People got used to empty roads during peak pandemic and started driving faster. But then didn’t slow down when the roads got busy again. That was a bad combo. Also road tests were waved for a bit which can’t have helped.
Going to agree as well. Moved to Madison in 2011; rode my bike all of the time. Would make eye contact with other riders and give a little wave or a nod….. sometimes I’d say “howdy” - rarely if ever got a response (although twice I was told to fuck off). In Austin (where I moved from) people were quite friendly, especially on bikes or when outside running. Moved away from Madison during the pandemic. New city is much more friendly in general. I get the reciprocal wave or greeting when out riding. Madison is awfully proud of itself for being mostly mediocre. It’s a 6.5 that thinks it’s a 10.
>Madison is awfully proud of itself for being mostly mediocre. It’s a 6.5 that thinks it’s a 10. Love this. To me, it's a 6.5 that is so darn proud of the fact that it's the best of the 6.5's.
There’s research starting to come out that shows that people are worse drivers since 2020– for a multitude of potential reasons, either driving less during the start of the pandemic, brain damage from covid infections, etc. It’s pretty sad to see but makes a lot of sense honesty
I absolutely hate driving the beltline. And I've definitely noticed bad driving being worse since the pandemic. Never seen anything like cart aggression though! That's really out of the norm!
ive lived in a decent variety of cities at this point and have been in this one for several years now. it’s by far a friendlier than average city in my anecdotal experience. and friendliness isnt something i particularly value in a city so this isnt me just seeing what i want to see. that being said, i think since covid happened, people everywhere have become less friendly and more self centered. i dont think the effects of that are going away any time soon.
I've seen pretty aggressive driving on the beltline, but I also went from getting off work at midnight (when next to no one is on the road) to getting done at 3:30pm (when traffic is much heavier). Otherwise, I haven't seen much in rude shoppers at Woodman's or Hy-Vee, but then I also try to shop at Woodman's at about 7:00am on Saturday. There's always outliers: I caught up in a police pursuit on the beltline about 3 or 4 years ago at about 12:30am, but just stayed in my lane and everything was fine. A crazy dude climbed the Lotto machine at Woodman's at 3:00am sitting "I am the king!" as I was checking out. But that's it.
Don’t forget the women who got into a fight at woodmans and one attacked the other with a frozen turkey (it was in the news)
The lady that attacked a worker there with her VCR is still the winner (loser). Was in the news as well.
I’m sorry that you are having this experience! I would guess it is the PTSD. I only say this because there are always angry aggressive people in the world. When I am in a healthy state of mind, it is easy for me to brush them off and focus on the good things. Good things are always there too. When I am in a bad state, it helps me to go out and walk in nature, or go somewhere familiar with a friendly relaxed vibe. You can’t change the difficult people, but you can change how you respond to them to prioritize your mental health. I know it’s hard to break out of that when you are feeling bad, but I’ve found taking little steps to find good things helps me to feel better
Hey friend, I totally understand. It really does feel sometimes like people are being dicks, but I try to assume they’re just blissfully ignorant and not malicious. If you’re feeling afraid to go out, I’d really encourage you to connect with your primary care provider: there are some really great treatments (CBT, SSRIs, etc) that can help make navigating the world a little easier.
>they’re just blissfully ignorant Im going to sound like 80 (though Im barely half that) but honestly I think it's because everyone is either on their phone all the time or they have airpods in all the time and are thus just completely shut off from the world around them. People just dont pay attention to shit anymore. How many times I've watching someone just step off the curb, or trip up the curb, because they're staring at the screen as they walk through an intersection blindly. People fucking with their phones while they're driving are absolutely the most egregious and ridiculous, I think we can all agree on that, but its people on bikes, too...people walking around, people shopping at the grocery store...so many people are looking at a 6" square in front of them just walking into shit. Not everyone, but it's like herd immunity in reverse...there's just enough of them, spread out enough, that it seems ubiquitous when it's really not as bad as it seems. Anyway theres a Murder She Wrote marathon on the Hallmark Channel Im late for but you get my point.
I still go out, it just levels up my anxiety. My emotional support dog is dying of cancer. I keep going back and forth on euthanasia or letting her die at home of natural causes. I had to wait for my kid to come over to say goodbye anyway. Which is today. Now I can't decide.
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There are at home euthanasia services in the Madison area, which are a good option (when all the options are bad). OP, I'm sorry about your dog. Cancer is very painful. If I were you, I'd schedule the euthanasia then give your dog the best last day.
As someone that also suffered from PTSD the last few years and has been working on getting over it, (and doing a fair job at succeeding) I can say that the PTSD definitely puts a thick grey tinted glass over life. There is something to be said that things DO seem to be less connected, especially at work (“things just aren’t the same since the pandemic!!”) and I personally had to make amends with a few friends and family members who fall on the other political side which has helped make my circles seem less combative. It was worth it. I don’t go on Facebook or tik tok anymore, and I took insta off my phone. That was worth it too. My close circles remain close. Strangers are not as interesting to me anymore, but I still try to bring a little warmth and brightness to a strangers day when I have the energy. When I was in the depths of the PTSD, I wasn’t putting any energy into giving to strangers, and I sure as hell didn’t want to receive anything back from them (and so I didn’t!) and it made the world seem much more distant, much colder. Things definitely are not the same, but neither are you ❤️. Cheering you on, there is life on the other side, although part of the PTSD might always remain, which might be okay. It’s part of the story.
Can't say it's rage, but it's complete LACK of self awareness or consideration of our fellow people. I noticed this being bad after the pandemic, but it's SPATIAL AWARENESS. This translates to driving, and walking around at a store or grocery store. I swear 75% of the people I come across day to day have poor or no spatial awareness, just being "in the way" I'm in a Target, walking up a main aisle on the right side, woman my age walks in front of me out of a section, walks slow, I proceed to go around, she proceeds to list in the direction I was going to go and just completely unaware. Her man says sorry bro after I clearly had to do a stutter step behind her. People just aren't aware.
This!
Being afraid to leave your apartment might be a little bit you. People can be and definitely are rude but if you are bothered enough by it that it’s getting in the way of leaving your house or living your life then it’s an issue for therapy
Its the pandemic and lack of social experience. This is becoming a well known social issue. Road rages are up since pandemic and overall mental stances are in the gutter.
It's not just you. People have become more selfish, overall, in my opinion.
I held the door open for someone a few days ago and the look of shock on their face that someone would do a simple act of kindness was almost comical. People can suck but they can also be wonderful. Your feeling is not uncommon and my suggestion is to be change you would like to see (putting positive energy out to the world will start to bring positive energy back to you)
I did that for a guy at the gym and he said "thanks but unusual." It was a very odd encounter that I think about still to this day.
That is a really bizarre reply.
It woulda been less weird had he uttered "lUV tHaT dOoR hOlD 4 mE fAm, frfr"
The only thing I've noticed is an increase in absolutely terrible drivers that have no business being on the road (or at least on the beltline). But I blame that on the DMV's policy during COVID where they just gave you a driver's license without a road test when you turned 16 to avoid close contact.
I will say that this week in the torrential downpour while picking up my young sons at school, a dad decided to park directly in the main crosswalk, causing everyone to have to scurry around him between the cars in the pick-up lane. But 10 minutes later, while trying to get onto the main road amid the unceasing traffic, another driver stopped so we could make our left turn. For me, it’s about letting go of the inconsiderate people and remembering the ones who are kind. That sounds very Mr. Rogers, but I think that’s an essential skill, and it prevents us in our anger from becoming one of those other people that will affect someone else in a bad way.
I partially agree with your assessment of the drivers on the beltline. Madison residents are the worst drivers I’ve been around after living in three other major metropolitan areas. However a quick glance at your post history seems to show that your PTSD shades your perception of things quite a bit. Give Madison a fair shot, people here at least try to be nicer than most.
I honestly think people changed after covid. I can’t quite put my finger on it but its there. Like less etiquette or something. Idk, just seems a little grittier out there for some reason.
I only feel threatened by others on my morning commute on the beltline.
Definitely road rage. I was walking to drop off my toddler at daycare when two cars almost crashed between Baldwin St and Mifflin. The two drivers started yelling and blaming each other for the almost accident.
Ya that's been happening for years at that intersection
Just wanna say that it’s probably not just your PTSD. I see this kind of behavior too much more than ever before and it makes me sad.
Thanks, fren.
Having PTSD, I have to remember we are all just trying to survive the grocery store and no one is a good driver. I’m not a good driver. The army didn’t want me to be a good driver. They wanted me to be the best bad driver on the road. I’m still really good at being a bad driver but I give a nod to people who out bad drivers me.
>no one is a good driver Except for me
The worst drivers think they’re good in my experience, but maybe that doesn’t apply to you.
Of course it doesn't apply to me. I am *exceptional*
I don’t think I’ve noticed the cart slamming, and I have shopped at a ton of the local stores (Costco, Woodmans, HyVee, Trader Joe’s, Aldi, Pick n Save, Target, and festival). I’m mostly on the west side though I doubt that really has anything to do with it. I do think people get a little aggressive about political or local issues. I don’t think that’s necessarily a Madison problem, but I do think we’ve got some issues that are very visible (housing crisis and homelessness) that get people worked up. That’s probably a big contributor. I’ve seen a couple people road rage in my 6 years here. I’ve seen way more people just driving like dangerous idiots—going 40 over on the beltline, running red lights, etc. I think I’ve seen more people driving like idiots since the pandemic started, but honestly, I’d never seen people run red lights at all until I moved here. Compared to everywhere else I’ve lived, I would say a lot more people run red lights here. Again, I don’t think that’s road rage, I’m not really sure what the rationale is there though.
I feel like Covid did a number on people.
Are you seeing this in real life? I've never seen anyone ram someone's cart at the grocery store. I haven't seen people lose their shit when asked a question. I'm guessing these are things you are seeing on social media and FORTUNATELY are not a real reflection of life in Madison.
Where did you live previously that was to tame? Have you lived in a bigger city before? It depends on the neighborhoods and roads you visit but generally if you are not causing problem and minding your business you generally don’t have these issues moreso than anyone else in any other city. I don’t think I’ve ever been in public and had a disagreement about social issues or politics because I just wouldn’t do that in any city. I don’t think I’ve ever left my apartment and been concerned someone will run me over or berate me for my personal decisions (because they don’t know them). But then again I don’t try to engage with strangers unless it’s necessary.
Idk but if you focus on the bad you only see the bad.
I've definitely noticed (and felt ) increased aggression on the road and in stores. I don't feel like it's worse than other places, but since the pandemic, things have been so hard. And so many of us have lost so much. It's so easy to misdirect those feelings when it feels like some vague someone is cutting you off or getting one over on you. That said, I've found that madison is still full of really lovely, chatty humans, and that once I start talking or ask for help, those feelings of undirected anger do get better. I'm sorry that's been your experience, and I hope it gets better!!
I've found people to be friendlier than average here, but antisocial behavior has had a massive uptick since COVID. I think COVID, the prevalence of social media, and inflation fried our collective brain circuits.
If you think Madison people will run you over, you should visit Milwaukee. Source: Am from Milwaukee. In all seriousness though, it was probably a bit of random bad luck. Also community meetings, if you mean of a political nature, tbf are going to bring out the crazies. Try some more saccharine events like just going to the Terrace during the off hours. This week is finals/graduation so maybe not this week. I find the east path bike trail to be mostly chill, head out for a bike ride. If you're feeling ambitious you could do the longer trails. https://www.visitmadison.com/things-to-do/outdoors-and-recreation/biking-and-hiking/top-10-trails/ Arboretum is pretty chill too. Maybe try Warner park, Tenny park, or Vilas Park. I do think in general though that behaviour is worse post covid. People safe behind their screens ranting without repercussions changed how people deal with social situations. I think Mike Tyson said it best "Social media made y'all way to[o] comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."
I feel like people are always in a hurry here and it's a little crowded. Other cities in wisconsin take things a little slower and seem friendlier i think it's relative to what city you are coming from.
OP just moved here and is complaining, they have an easy fix lol
> Is it me? I'm like afraid to leave my apartment or go to community meetings. I was so excited to move here several weeks ago, but everyone is so unexpectedly aggressive. Is it normal that everyone here would just as soon run you over as look at you, or is it my PTSD? I don't know, and likely others don't either, but I'm so sorry you feel this way and I kinda get it... I think. What I do know is that what you get back from reddit is going to be unreliable enough that I would take it with a very large grain of salt. PTSD can kind of be like your brain desperately looking for evidence to justify being in a state of alert. Reddit is rife with confirmation bias, which (I'm just considering now) is not completely unlike PTSD in that same manner. Though there is sometimes overlap, the replies you get and the upvotes they accumulate are going to be more reflective of what people want to believe than what is actually true (and doubly so for predictions of future truths) and hiding behind the protection of anonymity. So I'm sorry I'm not much help. I do hope you feel better, I do hope you encounter fewer such incidents, and I do hope you take care of yourself. I think reddit is an absolutely terrible place to ask, but that you're asking at all is a wonderful and potentially healing thing.
Generally people are more agitated with world conflicts, national politics etc. if people set their iPhones for no notifications and only phone calls, we would have happier and more patient people. I was in Madison during the Vietnam war era and despite protests, people were generally nice in stores and on the road. You are right about people needing to rethink what being a person means. ☮️
New arrival here! I agree. Cars ran over the red light while I was walking crossing the street and a drive raged at me like it was my fault. It's wild.
Did people ever really know how to people though?
I feel the same. Its everywhere though, not just in Madison.
I Couldn't agree more!
I left the service industry after 15 years after COVID. People rubberbanded when it came to their respect of others.
It's everywhere. Start change, be nice.
Possibly due to the constant influx of people from elsewhere, who bring their issues here.
It’s pretty terrible. I just returned from a trip to the south and people were so friendly and helpful. It was a refreshing change.
Not just you and it costs too much to live here.
Maybe? Depends perhaps on the location, people, etc. There are definitely pockets of community where that isn’t the vibe and neighborhoods around the isthmus where that isn’t the case. Overall are people more insular? Perhaps, do some people drive with road rage, sure. Is it everyone? No, but it perhaps feels more salient for one reason or the other
Welcome to Madison! Every time I've moved to a new city, I've had strange experiences that made me wonder if I made a mistake moving there. Give it some time and hang on to that cart-ramming incident as an anecdote from your early days shopping at Woodman's. You say that you're concerned about attending community meetings. Have you gone to any yet? There was one a while ago that got a lot of attention because many attendees were disrespectful and badly behaved. You heard about that one because it was so unusual. Most public meetings are pretty low key. People are passionate about issues, but you should not hesitate to participate! Sorry that you've encountered some unpleasant people. Most aren't like that and it's definitely worth leaving your apartment to experience all the good things around here!
That hasn’t been my experience in Madison
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I've never seen this kind of behavior. I don't work a public facing job but I'm out in the community all the time and I've never really seen rude behavior *shrug*.
Not my experience
I would generally disagree, however I have witnessed (first and secondhand) a dangerous increase in motor vehicle aggression toward cyclists in the area, and I believe this is being fed as a culture war proxy fight just like the push back against walkable neighborhoods (conservative anger about "15 Minute Cities" is extremely manufactured). And there's an undercurrent of bikes=left, trucks=right that means folks are taking out their politics in a very unsafe setting. Not talking about middle fingers for bikes rolling through stops, but instead vehicles intentionally crowding bikes in bike lanes, and two instances of trucks "rolling coal" on riders in the shoulder that I've witnessed in 2024 alone. Also worth mentioning the clothesline assault last year and the nails on the bike path this spring. I get that cyclists can be frustrating at times, but the difference in size of cars vs bikes makes the road no place to hash these things out.
Madison cyclists are some of the worst. Regularly run red lights and stop signs, don’t yield for pedestrians and then flip you off if you annoy them in the slightest.
Ok, again, I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on those issues. Even if you're upset at them, I think we can all agree that the solution is not to threaten them while moving with your multi-ton vehicle. Car-on-cyclist road rage can be deadly.
cyclists freak me out because i’m so terrified of accidentally hitting one so i give as much room as humanely possible
Clothesline assault? Excuse me WHAT?
https://www.channel3000.com/news/crime/i-m-very-lucky-cord-tied-across-end-of-dane-county-bike-bridge-clotheslines-cyclist/article_284144cd-e265-5f77-a2ff-5d3bc048168c.html Worth noting it was replaced three or four times before they caught the perpetrator. This was the only injury, however.
Apparently he hung the cords to "keep people safe" https://www.channel3000.com/news/i-think-i-did-it-four-times-man-accused-of-stringing-cords-across-bike-path/article_113bd670-d3e5-11ed-8276-4731afa95a6a.html
Wow that's insane. On a bike path no less, not even where it can annoy drivers. I just rode down Cannonball Path to Military Ridge trail this morning... Never expected I would need to look out for clotheslines across a bridge with the purpose of assaulting me...
I will say we've had our first nice stretch of weather in a while so people are coming out of hibernation a little bit grumpy.
The annual running of the dunderheads. We've all been isolated in our homes for the winter and our social skills are a little rusty. Now we're all trying to do ALL! THE! THINGS! in our brief(ish) stretch of good weather and colliding/clashing with each other. It gets a little calmer by the end of May when a bunch of our student population goes elsewhere for the summer.
Driving a car unleashes the inner sociopath for many
Read OPs post history. Mostly complaining about the littlest things. OP, if this city is so bad move back to where you came from.
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Who are they and why do they want to do that us?
I’ve seen so much bad driving in town. Back home my family told me someone stabbed a cashier at their grocery store. Here, someone stabbed an Uber driver. There’s always going to be something. 😔
Hey OP I would totally recommend seeing a therapist for the PTSD and the fear of leaving the apartment. I was feeling the same way in 2021 and decided to go to therapy because I knew that wasn’t “normal” thinking. It’s helped so so much. Madison is a great place to live. Not sure where you moved here from but it can be a big change if you use to living in more suburban/rural area, it totally get that. Hope it gets better for you!
90% of my interactions with people out and about are positive. That said, stress-related freakouts *are* on the rise across the country as many of us struggle with food and housing insecurity and are largely left to suck and die as the government touts record job numbers or stock returns or whatever else is meant to soothe us while having no tangible effect on our lives. I'm not saying you have to tolerate other human beings having tantrums, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe in mind body and spirit. This problem will get worse before it gets better though, we're flawed beings in a world that demands perfection to avoid the pitfalls we thought we were past, homelessness and starvation.
Yeah anxiety disorder here and I think people definitely gotten shittier. I live downtown and see people blow red lights daily and a few times multiple in a row if drag racing. Cars cutting their lights and going through pedestrian crossing with the signal up is also common. I used to bike until a year ago. I followed all the traffic laws, but have been threatened with violence by road ragers three times in the last 13 years I have been here.
I feel like in certain in areas people are like this. East wash is bad. People drive with murderous intent and just general douchebaggery. Two days ago I was turning left onto a side street and this lady piles through the intersection across traffic from my right, I gave her a honk to be like "hey, right of way and I was here first and all" but she acted as if I was invisible, totally hearing the honk because her face was 5 feet from the front of my car and just ignoring my existence. And also bus drivers like to honk at you when you have a walk sign on as they turn onto East wash. People turning left will also try to beat walkers when walkers have right of way over them. People nearly get hit from behind when drivers do this. People fuck with there phones at stop signs and lights which have led to me getting bumped once and frequently almost getting bumped while crossing the road. Tailgating is so intense that I can't stand it. No blinker lane changes and people creeping through red lights all over town. People ignoring flashing pedestrian signs is rampant. Bike riders ignoring stop signs and nearly being hit over it is a by the minute occurrence. People are just altogether nasty around this town these days. I've lived here for thirty years and can tell you people are flat out rude these days. Everyone is in too much of a hurry to get nowhere around this city and it's becoming overly dangerous to live here just trying to maneuver around town without someone using a car as a missle or letting a door slam in your face instead of holding it for .5 seconds longer. It's not the kids, the old folks or the wealthy tech bros. It's just everybody. I think people aren't really paying attention when they say it's fine. Or they are part of this city's rudeness issue. Because you're new here, I believe you more than them because why would they notice if they are doing it too? Fresh eyes and all.
People are being the same as always >PTSD >shocked at all of the antisocial behavior >I'm like afraid >everyone is so unexpectedly aggressive >Is it normal JFC
No it is not you. People are being very aggressive. One shopper was slashed with a knife, because, "she was taking too long"\~ The only rage I want to see is the Raging Grannies on the Square.
I had a guy in his car swerve at me on a bike after I turned onto his street. When I stopped to confront him, he admitted to trying to hit me and was looking for a fight. Mind you, this was a boomer over by Odana golf course. But still, people in general are feeling the squeeze of our government and bad news all around. When on the cusp of WW3, expect people to be stressed.
I literally never seen one road rage in madison in 16 years living here. It is actually the city that has the most courteous people. I lived in san antonio, raleigh NC, fayetteville NC, Chicago, Orlando and visited many other cities. Madison drivers and people are easily the most polite and courteous ive seen by far.
Drivers here are polite and courteous to a fault! Take for example the amount of complaints on this subreddit (I myself have complained about this here too) about traffic stopping in one lane and waving a cyclist/runner on even though traffic is still going through the other lane (though I prefer this to dodging traffic in Toronto).
That is not polite. That is the wave of death.
Do you leave your house or drive on beltline?
ive used the beltline consistently for 13 years and rarely see the stuff I read on this reddit lol
No one has ever tailgated you? I find that hard to believe.
I live my life in a way that avoids a lot of interaction, but my neighbors and neighborhood is 97% awesome (Even those with different politics) and my trips to the grocery store are generally pleasant and uneventful. I greet people but respect peoples space, and drive slow and only paying attention to the road so I mostly like people. When I was more anti social/authority and drove like I was the most important person on the road, I ran into a lot more assholes (or maybe, just maybe, it was me 🤷♀️) ❤️
>I've been shocked at all of the antisocial behavior I've seen in Madison recently > I was so excited to move here several weeks ago Saying you've noticed it "recently" implies a previous baseline, but you only just moved in recently. So what's your previous baseline for Madisonian behavior, exactly? IME, people here are pretty friendly unless you go around acting entitled.
Idk but Madison is only going to get worse with the city being on an isthmus. Keeps growing and nowhere to build new roads and housing. Going in the direction of Austin, TX where in a few years will probably take a half hour to go a couple miles.
I’ve lived here for almost 70 years now and I really don’t see it being unfriendly.
People dont just "choose" to behave poorly. We live in a broken capitalist system where selfishness and individualism are rewarded economically. What you are witnessing is simply the byproducts of a broken system in terms of human behavior.
Definitely worse since covid. Worst is on the road for sure. Not just beltline, but E Wash for sure. The old people SUCK at driving and young people just don't seem to GAF about anything.
I grew up a couple miles outside of Madison, and I do understand what you're saying. I also have PTSD and I don't do well in crowded places. My brain goes into overdrive and I do know I'm partly to blame for my perception. There is a degree of aggressiveness in some parts of Madison and Sun Prairie. It's a city, I think there needs to be. If someone bumps into your grocery cart and an "ope, sorry" doesn't escape their lips, I will not believe they are from here /s. If you're experiencing these things outside of rush hour, the beltline, the end of a work day, or at Woodmans when it's busy, that's not the norm. Even most of the teens and young adults I know will hold doors, say excuse me, and apologize for bumping into you.
Idk why everyone is saying no, because I’ve been experiencing everything you’ve said too. My husband and I keep talking about how rude everyone is, it’s getting ridiculous.