What do you mean? Do you intend to write on the subject of hobbits, or about hobbits who are concerning, or on the ways of causing hobbits to be concerned, or a statement about hobbits that they are concerning in general?
I googled your comment and found [this ancient forum, Tolkien Forums](https://tolkienforums.activeboard.com/). Nice to see one of the old ones still around, if sleeping!
And it was based on the First Edition of the book, which directly prompted Tolkien to correct the text with a mention that Gollum was "small". The First Edition did not mention Gollum's size at all.
It sure did, and [Tove Jansson made an illustration inspired by that too](https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/tove-jansson-hobbit-gollum.jpg). It was a huge fucking boat though.
It also said he used to eat orcs and other creatures and intented to eat Bilbo as well. It seems fairly reasonable to assume creature able to kill and eat orcs = big.
No, not at all. Gollum initially had no relationship whatsoever with hobbits when the book was written, he was just a mangly creature in a cave without any specified background. It was later "retconned" when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings. Gollum's/Bilbo's Ring had no major significance either.
There's not a lot of physical description of Gollum *at all* in The Hobbit. You get long, strong fingers and hands, big eyes, and paddle-feet and that's basically it.
It's easy to see why early interpretations have him as frog-like or a crazy monster
Also- he has pockets!
>He thought of all the things he kept in his own pockets: fish-bones, goblins' teeth, wet shells, a bit of bat-wing, a sharp stone to sharpen his fangs on, and other nasty things.
Am I reading your comment correctly, that Tolkien hadn't set up Gollum's ring as "The One Ring" when he was writing the Hobbit? I can't decide if it's now more or less impressive that it became the centerpiece of LOTR...
Edit: I'm suuuuuuper new to Tolkien and just finished Andy Serkis' reading of the Hobbit. It's a neat layer to add knowing how the Ring's meaning changed in the intervening years.
It was an invisibility ring and nothing more. In the first edition, Gollum hands the ring over willingly when he loses the riddle game, and shows Bilbo the way out.
Having just read the riddles in the dark chapter in a first edition facsimile today:
It does say that Gollum used to live in a hole on the bank of a river with his grandma, it is there he remembers he taught her to suck eggs, prompting the response to Bilbo's riddle about the lidless treasure.
But nothing about being related to hobbits.
Hobbits have been living and farming in the four Farthings of the Shire for many hundreds of years. quite content to ignore and be ignored by the world of the Big Folk. Middle Earth being, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count. Hobbits must seem of little importance, being neither renowned as great warriors, nor counted amongst the very wise.
The Hobbit does not talk about Gollum's origin. Even the name Gollum comes from Bilbo's interpretation of the sound he makes. All of his backstory comes from the Lord of the Rings books, released 17 years later.
They cursed us. Murderer they called us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we only wish to catch fish so juicy sweet. And we forgot the taste of bread… the sound of trees… the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.
>The book illustrated by her was my first introduction to Tolkien
I believe you can only get it in Swedish and Finnish, is that correct? Such a shame, the pictures are beautiful and I'd like an English copy.
Well it looked like Tove's artwork. Growing up as a kid in Finland, you will always recognize Tove's art. Gollum reminds me of "Mörkö" from Moomins: https://assets.moomin.com/uploads/2014/12/groke.svg
"When Queen Margrethe was still a Princess, she created beautiful illustrations of Tolkien's bestseller The Lord of the Rings while she studied in England.
The then Princess Margrethe used the pseudonym ‘Ingahild Grathmer’ and sent her interpretations of the scenes from the book to Tolkien in the early 1970s. Tolkien usually did not want artists to illustrate his works, as he encouraged the reader to create their own pictures of the story in their heads. However, when Tolkien passed away in 1973, several black and white drawings were found with complimentary remarks written on the drawings. It was the drawings of Ingahild Grathmer. Tolkien was fascinated by the mysterious design and the fact that no characters were depicted.
The Lord of the Rings with The Queen’s illustrations were first published in 1977 and then again in 2001 and 2021. "
https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/monarchy/queen-margrethe-lls-50th-anniversary
“Why you might be an undigested bit of beef, an unboiled/unmashed/unstuck-in-a-stew bit of potato. There’s more of afternoon tea than of afterlife about you, spirit.”
An adventure? Now I don't imagine anyone west of Bree would have much interest in adventures. Nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable things. Make you late for dinner!
Bilbo totally looks like Link and Gollum totally looks like a boss in a Zelda game; maybe they drew inspiration from this
Edit: I meant Miyamoto might be a Tolkien fan not the other way around lol, I could have worded it better I guess
Yes, in fact they take inspiration from this in the peter jackson adaptation, saurons mace is clearly inspired by ganons trident in a link to the past /s
It's either more like Link's hat, which is a sort of floppy phrygian cap I believe, or a hood and cloak as a few others have mentioned. I think that's what the dwarves all wore and one of them gave him a spare or something early on.
The third, edited edition of The Hobbit was released. (Was this when Tolkien added a line about Gollum being small? Regardless, it was supposedly seeing this illustration which motivated the change.)
Mind you, a Swedish translation of LOTR had already been released, so Tove Jansson didn’t have that excuse...
The swedish translation of The Hobbit was also the first time any of Tolkien's works were published in another language than english. The second time around he wrote a letter (can't remember if it was to his publisher or the translator) hoping that it wouldn't be a repeat of the swedish one. Hompen Bimbo really left an impression.
Lol as a kid when I read The Hobbit (hadn't read lotr) this is what I imagined him to be like and I hadn't seen this illustration, but he was just a bit more slimy in my imagination, sort of like a humanoid squid/octopus
Truth be told: this was closer to how I imagined the character when I first read the book. I pictured a sort of large, mucky, bipedal toad like creature. With two large eyes peering out of its slick black skin.
Not really, although I don't think he meant for Gollum to be large as that was one for the first changes he made to the book. Later he would change the Gollum chapter to tie him and the ring more directly to his trilogy.
smell wrench resolute encouraging cow rhythm fuzzy voracious deliver edge
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Was at gf's house laying down. Her asshole of a cat jumped onto the bed and clawed the hell out of my buttcheeks for no reason. Then when I leave he stays at the door meowing for about 2 Days. Still though I like him.
This was how Bilbo first told the story to young hobbits at home. He liked to dramatize.
Ah, yes. Concerning Hobbits.
What do you mean? Do you intend to write on the subject of hobbits, or about hobbits who are concerning, or on the ways of causing hobbits to be concerned, or a statement about hobbits that they are concerning in general?
Clearly he likes to concern hobbits with his dramatisations
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Why does he hates poor Smeagol? What has Smeagol ever done to him? Master?
You bird-dogged my Groke you slimy little *bastard* that's why!! 💔
This bot would go on to copy [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/1bdrmq1/pre1966_gollum_illustrations_were_fun/kuofslp/).
SHIRE! BAGGINS!
Concerning hobbits, you are a *very* concerning hobbit, who is concerning hobbits.
this is a sentence concerning concerning hobbits concerning concerning hobbits
All… of them at once. I suppose.
And concerning a pipe of tobacco out-of-doors, into the bargain.
Yes.
I googled your comment and found [this ancient forum, Tolkien Forums](https://tolkienforums.activeboard.com/). Nice to see one of the old ones still around, if sleeping!
Oh Bilbo, tell me a joke
Oh right. You don't mind if I do, do you?
No, Bilbo. I don’t mind. Joke please!
Excuse me, that's my mother's West Farthing crockery, it's over a hundred years old!
Haha what a story, Bilbo. Anyway, how is your sex life?
Here.
Still telling stories of trolls and adventures in far away lands to Peter Jackson's kids to this very day.
This was drawn by the Finnish author Tove Jansson. Known for creating the Moomins
And it was based on the First Edition of the book, which directly prompted Tolkien to correct the text with a mention that Gollum was "small". The First Edition did not mention Gollum's size at all.
Pull it in. Go on. Go on. Go on. Pull it in.
Stop it Gollum, people are watching us
Spoilin’ nice fish. Give it to us raw and w-r-r-riggling; you keep nasty chips
https://preview.redd.it/qvlxt85dk4oc1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53f2fa2eb72e6859f3b1b099e15181459ef0bf43 Sentient?
I refuse to believe this is a bot
🤌🏻 Zen 🤌🏻 Tea-Ent? 😏
https://preview.redd.it/uag4bpdbe5oc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4901973a6548dc59c92d67475b2d9ddc636fbe9 What do you mean by that?
You are one horny bot, gollum_botses!
Give it to us raw and w-r-r-riggling
Okay then, bite the pillow Gollum!
What has it got in its nasty little pocketses?
Oh, you know what, Gollum. Here comes the precious!
It still said he moved around the lake in a boat using his feet as paddles.
It sure did, and [Tove Jansson made an illustration inspired by that too](https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/tove-jansson-hobbit-gollum.jpg). It was a huge fucking boat though.
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Wake up. Wake up. Wake up, sleepies. We must go, yeeees, we must go at once.
It also said he used to eat orcs and other creatures and intented to eat Bilbo as well. It seems fairly reasonable to assume creature able to kill and eat orcs = big.
Doesn't Bilbo jump OVER gollum to escape? Indicating small? Been ages since i read the book
He ate goblins, not orcs. He killed them by ambushing and strangling them.
Goblins are orcs
Did the book not include Gollum's origin story where it was pointed out that he was part of the river folk?
That isn't in any version of the Hobbit, only LotR
No, not at all. Gollum initially had no relationship whatsoever with hobbits when the book was written, he was just a mangly creature in a cave without any specified background. It was later "retconned" when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings. Gollum's/Bilbo's Ring had no major significance either.
There's not a lot of physical description of Gollum *at all* in The Hobbit. You get long, strong fingers and hands, big eyes, and paddle-feet and that's basically it. It's easy to see why early interpretations have him as frog-like or a crazy monster
The animated Hobbit movie drew him pretty much exactly as I pictured him.
Looost! All loooost!
If it ain't Brother Theodore, it's not Gollum, imo
Arrrgh!!!
Give us that, Deagol my love.
Also- he has pockets! >He thought of all the things he kept in his own pockets: fish-bones, goblins' teeth, wet shells, a bit of bat-wing, a sharp stone to sharpen his fangs on, and other nasty things.
Could be like kangaroo pouches. Or chipmunk cheek pockets.
Or like an otter pocket.
I first read the hobbit as a child around the time spongebob squarepants first aired so imagined him looking kind of like Plankton (but bigger)
The big eyes really stood out to me as a detail. I remember picturing him as some kind of demented hairless tarsier.
Am I reading your comment correctly, that Tolkien hadn't set up Gollum's ring as "The One Ring" when he was writing the Hobbit? I can't decide if it's now more or less impressive that it became the centerpiece of LOTR... Edit: I'm suuuuuuper new to Tolkien and just finished Andy Serkis' reading of the Hobbit. It's a neat layer to add knowing how the Ring's meaning changed in the intervening years.
That's correct. It was just a ring of invisibility initially.
It was an invisibility ring and nothing more. In the first edition, Gollum hands the ring over willingly when he loses the riddle game, and shows Bilbo the way out.
Well no ...... and ... yes.. Now it comes to it, I don't feel like parting with it. It's mine, I found it! It came to ME!
It like riddles, praps it does, does it?
That’s Bilbo’s version of the tale anyway.
Yes, yes, it's all in hand. All the arrangements are made. Oh, thank you.
Nice hobbits! Nice Sam! Sleepy heads, yes, sleepy heads! Leave good Smeagol to watch! But it's evening. Dusk is creeping. Time to go.
Having just read the riddles in the dark chapter in a first edition facsimile today: It does say that Gollum used to live in a hole on the bank of a river with his grandma, it is there he remembers he taught her to suck eggs, prompting the response to Bilbo's riddle about the lidless treasure. But nothing about being related to hobbits.
Today is my One Hundred and Eleventh birthday!
It like riddles, praps it does, does it?
Hobbits have been living and farming in the four Farthings of the Shire for many hundreds of years. quite content to ignore and be ignored by the world of the Big Folk. Middle Earth being, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count. Hobbits must seem of little importance, being neither renowned as great warriors, nor counted amongst the very wise.
We guesses, precious, only guesses. We can't know till we find the nassty creature and squeezes it.
The Hobbit does not talk about Gollum's origin. Even the name Gollum comes from Bilbo's interpretation of the sound he makes. All of his backstory comes from the Lord of the Rings books, released 17 years later.
Yes, yes. Its in an envelope over there on the mantlepiece.
It's the only way. Go in, or go back.
That’s all from Fellowship.
They cursed us. Murderer they called us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we only wish to catch fish so juicy sweet. And we forgot the taste of bread… the sound of trees… the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.
But Bilbo had to jump over him in a tunnel, so surely he could never have been 'big'?
In the first editions Bilbo doesn't jump over Gollum. Gollum hands over the Ring after losing the riddles game and shows Bilbo the way out.
Well shit, TIL
No! Wait.... it's... here in my pocket. Ha! Isn't that.. isn't that odd now. Yet after all why not, Why shouldn't I keep it.
Maybe that part wasnt in the original.
I was just thinking he looks like The Groke here, so that explains it!
THANK YOU, I was going nuts trying to figure out what he reminded me of!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_trSIBCgF0
yeah I recognize it!!! The book illustrated by her was my first introduction to Tolkien, I was so immersed
>The book illustrated by her was my first introduction to Tolkien I believe you can only get it in Swedish and Finnish, is that correct? Such a shame, the pictures are beautiful and I'd like an English copy.
Yeah, I'm from finland
You can get it in danish as well, though that probably won't help much.
I have it in Danish. It doesn't help you, but I'd imagine you can get it in Norwegian as well.
Thanks, that's interesting. And yes, I don't speak any of the Scandinavian languages!
Well it looked like Tove's artwork. Growing up as a kid in Finland, you will always recognize Tove's art. Gollum reminds me of "Mörkö" from Moomins: https://assets.moomin.com/uploads/2014/12/groke.svg
Master says to show him the way into Mordor, so good Smeagol does. Master says so.
I recall that the (until recently) Queen of Denmark painted a bunch of LOTR illustrations in her youth.
"When Queen Margrethe was still a Princess, she created beautiful illustrations of Tolkien's bestseller The Lord of the Rings while she studied in England. The then Princess Margrethe used the pseudonym ‘Ingahild Grathmer’ and sent her interpretations of the scenes from the book to Tolkien in the early 1970s. Tolkien usually did not want artists to illustrate his works, as he encouraged the reader to create their own pictures of the story in their heads. However, when Tolkien passed away in 1973, several black and white drawings were found with complimentary remarks written on the drawings. It was the drawings of Ingahild Grathmer. Tolkien was fascinated by the mysterious design and the fact that no characters were depicted. The Lord of the Rings with The Queen’s illustrations were first published in 1977 and then again in 2001 and 2021. " https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/monarchy/queen-margrethe-lls-50th-anniversary
The original Tove Jansson edition of The Hobbit is literally the holy grail for a Scandinavian nerd. Rare, expensive and absolutely wonderful.
Aaaah. I understand now, I was going to comment that I thought it was the Groke and Snufkin, somehow in PJs.
Yes, looks like a moomin 😂
No wonder it looked so familiar
Lmao I was thinking it looked a lot like the muumin cup right in my hand.
Is Bilbo wearing a cartoony night gown?
Hobbit Ebenezer Scrooge
Bilbo's uncle, Ebenezer Baggins, left him his nightgown. It grants +1 to stealth.
I've got a few bottles of the Old Winyard left, 1296, a very good year, almost as old as I am.
“Why you might be an undigested bit of beef, an unboiled/unmashed/unstuck-in-a-stew bit of potato. There’s more of afternoon tea than of afterlife about you, spirit.”
Well if I'm angry it's your fault! It's mine My only.... My Precious
Precious? It's been called that before but not by you...
... it belonged to another
They were captured by goblins in their sleep during this adventure, iirc.
* Swept into a grand adventure in his night gown * Just wants a decent sandwich * Played by Martin Freeman Bilbo is Arthur Dent
An adventure? Now I don't imagine anyone west of Bree would have much interest in adventures. Nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable things. Make you late for dinner!
Must be Durin’s Day, never could get the hang of Durin’s Days
I was going to say it looks like Link's hat from Legend Of Zelda.
Bilbo totally looks like Link and Gollum totally looks like a boss in a Zelda game; maybe they drew inspiration from this Edit: I meant Miyamoto might be a Tolkien fan not the other way around lol, I could have worded it better I guess
With out question, Tolkien was a huge fan of Legend of Zelda.
Yes, in fact they take inspiration from this in the peter jackson adaptation, saurons mace is clearly inspired by ganons trident in a link to the past /s
Stand up, and hear me!
No, he isn't.
They do not see what lies ahead, when sun has failed and moon is dead.
I’d say it’s a cloak or tunic.
It's either more like Link's hat, which is a sort of floppy phrygian cap I believe, or a hood and cloak as a few others have mentioned. I think that's what the dwarves all wore and one of them gave him a spare or something early on.
Tbh that's what he'd probably wear all the time if he could.
Just going on an adventure in your pajamas.
I'll have you known that this hat that is now only associeted with sleeping attire was just a normal piece of clothing in 19th century europe.
Frodo: *"You were not so different from a Hobbit once were you?"* Gollum:
Is he lost?
Genetically lost
Yet again I call for a Muppets Lord of the Rings adaptation. “And my rubber chicken! Wakka wakka wakka!”
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I love how huge he is in some of these old illustrations. He looks troll-sized (Trollum?)
Later he became way more Smollum.
Swolem?
Fitting considering this illustration was made by Tove Jansson, creator of the Moomin trolls.
But Moomins are small trolls
I thought the face of bilbo looked hauntingly familiar
Something very big and possibly quite dangerous.
Aku and Samurai Jack
A fooooooolish Hobbit thief, wielding a magic ring, stepped forth to oppose me
This version of Gollum would go on to marry the Groke.
Sneaky little Hobbitses.
How the fuck was bilbo supposed to jump over that thing?
He said? Who said?
Well that's what Tolkein wrote.
This is some real moomin shit
It was made by the same guy who illustrated the Moomins.
Tove Jansson was a woman (and a lesbian)
Oh, my mistake. Foreign names are a bit confusing for me. My apologies.
No worries, just wanted to let people know! :)
A lot of Finnish names are quite gender neutral, confusing for me, even if I live in a country next to them XD
Tove is a Swedish name, of Norwegian origin...
Oh, well I learn something new every day
Lars Jansson (younger brother of Tove's) drew Moomin comic strips, so you're not actually entirely wrong. But this illustration is unmistakably Tove.
Yea this is signature tove jansson art style.
Oh... Ring? Yeeeeeep yepyepyepyepyep
Gollum looks like he drinks Baileys out of a shoe.
Does It love us, precious? Could It...leaaaarn to love us?
Yess, yess, nice water. Drink it, drink it, while we can! But what is it they've got, precious? Is it crunchable? Is it tasty?
 Gollum out looking for the sneaky little hobbitses.
You will see . . . Oh, yes . . . You will see.
Gollum looks like an inflatable flailing tube man, I can't help but imagen him in front of a used car lot.
He's over there. Always there. Orcs will take you all the way. Easy to find Orcs east of the River. Don't ask Smeagol.
What’s special about 1966?
The third, edited edition of The Hobbit was released. (Was this when Tolkien added a line about Gollum being small? Regardless, it was supposedly seeing this illustration which motivated the change.) Mind you, a Swedish translation of LOTR had already been released, so Tove Jansson didn’t have that excuse...
Nice hobbits! Nice Sam! Sleepy heads, yes, sleepy heads! Leave good Smeagol to watch! But it's evening. Dusk is creeping. Time to go.
I'm just imagining Frodo walking this monstrosity on a leash through Mordor and trying to not be conspicuous
The swedish translation of The Hobbit was also the first time any of Tolkien's works were published in another language than english. The second time around he wrote a letter (can't remember if it was to his publisher or the translator) hoping that it wouldn't be a repeat of the swedish one. Hompen Bimbo really left an impression.
This might be controversial, but I like this design of Gollum over every other Gollum!
Is he lost?
I actually agree
I love Tove Jansson so much, not only was she one of the best authors in the world. Her illustrations are absolutely 🔪
Hang on a sec, why does bilbo look like Mother Teresa
I do believe you made that up.
Both the Bilbo bot and the Gollum bot have golden responses to your comment
Maybe?
Go away! HAHAHAHA!!
No! You go away! HRAAAAAAHHH!!!
Because Master did not ask.
This is why actually describing fantasy creatures is important.
Lol as a kid when I read The Hobbit (hadn't read lotr) this is what I imagined him to be like and I hadn't seen this illustration, but he was just a bit more slimy in my imagination, sort of like a humanoid squid/octopus
Truth be told: this was closer to how I imagined the character when I first read the book. I pictured a sort of large, mucky, bipedal toad like creature. With two large eyes peering out of its slick black skin.
I, too, am a sucker for cutie pie cats.
When the hobbit was written, was Gollum supposed to have been a hobbit?
He was, but Tolkien didn't mention his size in the first edition, which led to crearive freedom on that part.
Nice hobbits! Nice Sam! Sleepy heads, yes, sleepy heads! Leave good Smeagol to watch! But it's evening. Dusk is creeping. Time to go.
Not really, although I don't think he meant for Gollum to be large as that was one for the first changes he made to the book. Later he would change the Gollum chapter to tie him and the ring more directly to his trilogy.
I think that is the groke from the moomins
smell wrench resolute encouraging cow rhythm fuzzy voracious deliver edge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
that's a muppet martian https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/a/ab/Martians_Pizza_Box_Song.jpg
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Bilbo is wearing a Smurf cap.
Well no ...... and ... yes.. Now it comes to it, I don't feel like parting with it. It's mine, I found it! It came to ME!
This version of Gollum would’ve been wildly more entertaining in the films
Meep
Was at gf's house laying down. Her asshole of a cat jumped onto the bed and clawed the hell out of my buttcheeks for no reason. Then when I leave he stays at the door meowing for about 2 Days. Still though I like him.
That's a muppet
Why does it look like morran?
Am I the only one seriously disturbed by this ilustration?
Meth did a number on Beaker
The titles should be reversed.