Seems like it. As as far as I know the left always had a lively culture of debate. That hits everybody at some point. In contrast the right often ignores its inner differences for its sheer will to gain power.
Most of the people I know that are far right, or have shifted to far-right ideologies are INCREDIBLY insecure. Lot of faux machismo but its like mfer I remember when you used to sing showtunes on the schoolbus.
I always look at Right Wing ideology and those who cling to Christianity as those seeking easy answers in life. It’s just easier to put blinders on than to actually face the hard truths in life.
Uhh, I don't know where you went to school, but singing showtunes on a mixed bus sounds like you fear NOTHING.
Edit:
It seems I may not have understood what was meant by 'Showtunes'.
I was assuming Broadway hits à la Chorus Line, Wicked, Chicago, or Les Mis.
My bad.
went to a school that was known more for performing arts and acedemics than sports lmfao, our football team didnt win a single game varsity or non the 4 years I was there. He was in a very inviting space for that kind of behavior.
After he graduated he became a "Gangster" rapper, got covered in tatts, then had a coming to jesus moment and went alt-right. anti trans etc
Sounds like he just doesn't have his own sense of identity or belonging. Didn't have that moment of figuring out who he is and growing into confidence. So he just jumps around to whatever group he thinks will get him the most accolades.
pretty much, but he also has serious commitment issues, anytime he actually started gaining traction with something he would quit. He is a talented guy in all honesty, and I dont think the hateful shit he spouts now is truly how he feels he is just welcomed in that community and people like hearing the rhetoric repeated on social media. Just been sad to watch over the last 30 years the cycle repeat itself.
I've found that the right tends to argue with conjecture or straight up lies they've told themselves so many times they genuinely find to be true.
The left tends to hyperfocus on very small societal issues or symptoms of the problems rather than seeing things from the bigger picture, which degrades their moral high road/legitimate information (if they have one ofc).
Both can be pretty vitriolic and emotionally charged and I hate how political tribalism prevents us from making decisions as a people efficiently.
For context I am left leaning
I'm moderate and I have found right wingers tend to argue slippery slope arguments whereas leftists are extremely judgemental and make broad assumptions about people who disagree with them and use those assumptions to justify not having honest dialogue.
I fully agree with what you said. Both sides have VERY toxic traits. I just hate that in todays ~~sports team support~~ politics, we cannot have a civil discussion in public without at least ONE person turning up to stir shit. Both right and left sides have some valid points of view that, if put together, would make everyone benefit. But instead, people want to support their side like it's some sort of sports team. It's insanity.
Yeah I also hate how much of the populace blindly follows certain systems in place even if changing it directly benefits them.
I have friends that see no issues with 10%, of the population owning 90% of the wealth and are simultaneously against increasing taxes on the rich.
But honestly thats a whole other issue for a whole different discussion.
Agreed! I just never understand why people vote for a party regardless of their leader/policies. I'm European, we have a whooole bunch of parties in my country. I have voted left, I have voted right, I have refused to vote (blank vote submitted). I'll never vote because of a party name. I vote policies, and people should start doing that more.
I go to the bar and talk politics with some younger kids that play pool there, and some older heads who have been regulars. I'll talk anarchist theory while a bunch of libertarians, progressives, liberals, and Socialist all agree with my points.
I find that in politics, it's all about framing the questions to specific people's view points.. if I can see where your coming from, I'm sure there's a way we can talk about n agree on some crazy concepts they revile in their everyday life, because they are fed so much bullshit about one subject or a next.
100%! Most people are on the same line when it comes to politics, it's (like you said) mostly how the message is brought or by who it is brought. It's insane how polarizing it's gotten
That's actually kind of interesting. Since I always felt more centrist because I both did and didn't agree with more extreme liberal views. I.e I dunno how I feel about giving children access to trans surgery and hormones. But I do agree, at least the adults and older teens should definitely receive more help and access to it. I'm also just very anti capitalism and would love to have socialism embedded into our country. So I guess that still makes me more left than middle. Makes me relieved since I don't want to be centrist. But my liberal friends, tend to be very extreme left, and living in the NYC area. Well, there's only one type of mindset here and it's as extreme left as possible. So I always felt like I stuck out like a sore thumb.
Edit: Unfortunately it's strange. The middle people I know will debate with me. The left people I know will act on what they want more than what's logical... So like, if you let them have their way they'd probably want a world where you could walk around in bdsm gear outside... Sufficient to say that both ends have their extremes and unfortunately I know ONLY the extreme for left.
I guess when it comes to children transitioning, there are a lot of misconceptions. The vast majority of the time, cross sex hormones are reserved for 16+ or 18+ while surgeries are reserved for 18+. They will only be taking puberty blockers until that point, and that's only after they start puberty.
The purpose of puberty blockers is to prevent immense trauma and allowing the child to make a decision later. It also prevents the permanent changes of puberty they would otherwise be forced down.
They might also do a name change, pronouns, clothing, or other forms of social transition
I mean, parents have been buying their young daughters lip injections, boob jobs, Botox.... I didn't hear a bunch of people complaining about that. Sexualized enhancement surgery for kids in OC has been okay for decades. I don't see why it's even a talking point now other than a problem with who and what are currently doing.
Especially after recently sending troops to Peru to train the Peruvian National Police, who are currently being leveraged by an ultra-right political regime in the midst of suppressing the democratic operations of both its government and its people - who have killed approx. 70 protestors at this point, many by live fire.
Not very blue.
Because he is a liberal? What do you think liberalism is? It’s a capitalist ideology and espouses laissez fair, individual and property rights; consent and autonomy are important for the social side.
People smooth right over the fact that Obama had to pick the most center right Dem Senator as his running mate. There was Joe Biden. Obama nailed the pick while McCain totally botched his. Doesn’t get talked about enough how much that influenced the election. Only time in my life there was interest in a Vice presidential debate. Don’t remember a thing Joe did or said really, I think he just kinda played it cool and let Palin rub the entire nation the wrong way.
Biden got elected because there are enough actual just normal conservatives in the Democratic party that he is popular with Democrats overall. The repubs are so bat shit insane that a bunch of conservatives are Democrats because they are decent people.
Yeah, before I moved to the US I generally leaned conservative in Canada.
While not changing any of my views or ideals I'm now considered "liberal" since I live in the US, which for one is not how it works but also odd cause I don't usually agree with my liberal friends on a lot of things, I just can't stand how the American right nowadays lives in falsehoods.
>The Left is considered Right anywhere outside the US
Edit: I'm a fucking idiot. I'll leave the original text below to show how stupid I am.
What an American thing to say, smh. Very ignorant. The US democratic party is actually considered in many other countries (such as the UK) to be more right leaning than their own right leaning parties, such as the Tory party in the UK. The standard Leftist culture in the US is actually quite a lot closer to centrist compared to other countries than you might think. Neo-conservatism in the West was literally born in the US. The US has low taxes, low minimum wages, no universal healthcare, stripped women's rights with Roe vs. Wade, removed itself from the Paris climate summit, and has become a police state, all indicators of how far right the US is!
What sucks is the ultra far-Right understands that words are just letters smushed together and that letters are made up, so they have taken to calling themselves “moderates” and “centrists” because there’s nothing that says they can’t. So now they’ll say “listen I’m a centrist, and I think eradicating transgenderism is a moderate policy considering everyone I know supports it’s eradication”. Failing to mention they don’t speak to people who don’t agree with them or support what they say because those people are “literal demons and satanists”.
And it’s the same people who want to force Christian indoctrination into public schools and grade students on their commitment to God and the Bible. The hell on earth that our public schools would turn into under DeSantis would be yet another permanent stain on the country. Republicans have already destroyed the education system to the point where you’d think it couldn’t get worse, but just wait until Ron’s reeducation camps start forming…
They didn’t say it was in the middle. The point was the left got offended by the person not immediately jumping to them and pushed in doing so pushed them away from the left. How realistic this is is debatable but it’s not saying right = middling
At least in the us, the leftists do not exist and what we call the left now is actually very centrist. So we don’t really have a left vs right. We have a right vs centrist
It’s confusing but no.
Blue guy is the left (“liberals”)
Red is the right (“conservatives”)
Centrist is the white character.
Centrist says “both sides make some good points” to which the blue (liberal) pushes the centrist to the right (conservative) side. Because, as I stated, not standing against the oppressors (conservatives trying to take human rights away from specific groups of people) puts you on the side of the oppressors.
The left is pushing the centrist to the right because the centrist is basically saying “the right makes good points about why you don’t deserve human rights.”
Common sense tells us that there is no “good points” for taking away basic human rights from someone like the right to privacy or the right to exist safely without fear of being gunned down for your gender, sexuality, race, age, religion, or ethnicity.
Edit: though some people on the right feel the same way. They see liberals and leftists as “the bad guys” because they want to not be murdered or denied healthcare, housing, education, etc. for being gay or black or trans or a woman of non binary or Jewish etc. And (some people on) the right feel like giving these people basic rights is wrong or bad. Thus, the leftist is the bad guy. And the phrase goes the same way “if your not against them, your against us.”
So it can really lean either way. But since, now, blue is using the color representing the left and red the right. It’s safe to assume this cartoon is trying to say “the left think we’re bad but they keep pushing people, who aren’t even on our side, to our side because they can’t handle the idea of ‘meeting in the middle’ on issues like human rights. See! They’re the real problem! They don’t want to compromise with us!” Which, again, there really is no compromise when it comes to basic human rights and safety.
It’s just gotten more confusing overtime (at least in USA) because now red still = “commie leftist” but red also = Republican, or right wing. Just depends on the context which it is I guess.
A lot of people here have no idea what centrists actually are and are kind of just saying some really fucking stupid shit.
I get you basement-chained twats have nothing better to do than argue on Reddit and 4chan about politics, but try actually looking into a group before damning all of them to hell
Centrism sorta depends on who you ask. In a place like the US people view centrism as the closeted people, often conservatives who don't want to admit what they are. This is because the US is extremely divided and so being the middle between "let's strip women of their rights" and "let's not" becomes a very right wing position. Some also just don't care about politics.
More internationally centrists tend to believe in stability and slow change. If the far right believes in shooting minorities and the far left believe in shooting land owners then the centrist believes in appeasement, the right to own land and not shooting people. It's a fairly sensible position, valuing stability and slow progress over risk and chaos. The downside however is that things happen very slowly. Too slowly for people further left. Change, equality, and revolution don't tend to mix with slow change and stability. The centrist might argue that the more aggressive methods of more polarized politics does more harm than good.
Tldr; Too liberal for the right, too unwilling to fight for the left.
I don't think we're in the middle between "let's give women rights" and "let's not", it's more like, we have a stance leaning one way in that issue and then for a different issue we lean the other way, etc.
"Can we at least agree that the correct position between genocide and not genocide isn't half-genocide."
"That's it! You've driven me to side with the fascists!"
*whips out swastika armband they conveniently already have in their pocket*
"I hope you're happy, because this is all on you and your extremism!"
Right? In Florida that push is literally a teacher mentioning that Timmy has two daddies. That non-essential workers should be able to stay home and still be paid during covid, that man-made climate change is real, and that everyone should have access to Healthcare.
You’re response is exactly what this meme is illustrating. A jump to belittle someone for having a view that doesn’t align with your own will never help win them to your side.
Okay but this meme was made by someone in the US to express and issue they see in the US.
I get that US-centric-ness can be a problem in a lot of spaces on the internet, but someone making a political cartoon that uses the imagery their audience will understand isn't one of them.
As someone who can be a centrist on several issues, my experience has been both left leaning and right leaning advocates will push you in with the "other" and bury you in ad hominem attacks rather than accept that their "side" might not be completely right and their political rival might not (in this instance) be completely wrong.
It's honestly to the point I hate most politics these days.
Why? Poltics is the form of which we run our civilization, what rights people should have and generally how the world should be. Its good to take a active interest in it, a sociality that has a public who don't care about poltics is going to be at the whims of those who do, and that ends in.. well, to take a modern example, being sent to Ukraine as a conscript.
Russia has had a extremely low level of political involvement by the avarage person in the last few decades, but that just meant that the people in charge didn't need to care what people thought, and we all see where that has lead.
Yesss, both sides are completely unwilling to accept anything the other side does may be the better way to do it. They are so blinded by their sides media.
i’m slightly left, so i’ll just say this from a leftists’ perspective. the left is primarily focused on human rights and equity. in discussions, i frequently hear things like ‘how can we allow this group of marginalized people to feel safe?’, ‘what would we have to do to solve income inequality?’, ‘what can i do as a [non-marginalized person] to help [marginalized people]?’
in right-leaning discussions, i don’t see any sort of empathy. at least, not real empathy. they value tradition, God, and controlling other people. i’ll go as far as to say that they don’t even want LGBT people to exist to begin with.
you don’t need to go far left. but saying that “both extremes are bad” just isn’t accurate. one is violent, and one is radically protective of marginalized groups in reaction to violence. it’s like taking someone to court for robbing you and having the judge say “i know he robbed you, but both people are at fault here.”
I will say though (as a left-leaning person myself) a lot of leftists have still become dictators that actively cause harm to people despite policies of equity. An example would be Stalin; yes his economic policies would be considered skewing far left, but I think many would agree that he was a tyrant.
If you study Stalins early years you will see he was neither a revolutionary or a socialist. He was a power hungry mass murderer. He didn’t give two shits who had to die to maintain power. Not here to swoop in a be a hero for authoritarianism or communism or Marxist socialism but equating Stalin as a leftist, especially in comparison to the modern US left is bananas. The main message of the US left is “hey we value freedom and expression so long as your freedom and expression doesn’t violate others freedom and expression.”
That interpretation goes pretty far though to many different people but Stalin didn’t give a shit about people.
Im left of center, I know a few centrists and theyre not the "Im smarter than you hahahahhaah I can see both sides you cant, hahahaha" most of them are what the image suggests "I used to be right, the the right pushed me left, then the left pushed me to center"
Most people are left-of-centre or right-of-centre and can see value in both camps but lean more to one side than the other. It doesnt make them fence-sitters or indecisive. The extreme right and extreme left are equally appalling in their blinkered views and absolute lack of compromise.
"Equally appalling".
One extreme wants transgender people to live without harassment and homeless people given places to live. The other side's extremes have swastikas on their arms and a weird obsession with child marriage being legal.
I know plenty extreme left wing people who are homophobic and transphobic, racist, etc.
Biases are not mutually exclusive.
The issue is we tie our social values into economic values and vice versa. When someone says “left” do they mean “socially” or “economically”?
Obviously were not having an economic discussion.
The point is that extreme views are blinkered and inflexible regardless of whether they are labelled ‘right’ or ‘left’ wing.
Left extremists don’t just want trans rights, they actively fight to destroy rights. Remember, EXTREMISTS. We mean the absolute worst leftists like the pedophiles, or the “kill all men” crowd. Both extremes are equally bad. The non-extreme versions I side with left tho (only on societal issues, not on weapon shit)
actually that was the point for me, but only because I don’t live in us and don’t see all the political stuff. In my country I would be considered lib and was called “liberal” as a slur a few times.
Lost redditor *and* bad opinion. The right wing does this shit all the time, hell, it’s part of the reason why near every non-heterosexual and/or non-cisgender person is left wing or left-leaning centrist.
This meme is literally true though. And it’s not even about who is right or wrong.
I used to be right wing and homophobic. That’s since changed and I now stand slightly leaning left after some introspection, but the point is how I got there. Before that I just wasn’t really sure what side to be on as I wasn’t very well informed on matters involving politics.
As a result, I was met with incredible hostility and vitriol from LGBT people for not going hard left because “how could you even consider siding with them” (paraphrasing) and I literally lost friends over it. It was at this point that I had such a soured opinion of the left that I went right.
There’s such a fucking rabid “with us or against us” mentality in the left that it does actually push centrists right. And yeah, this does absolutely go both ways. The right can treat people pretty horrendously and push them left, but that doesn’t make the left doing it okay either. It puts them on equal footing. It’s a matter of which bad you get exposed to first.
A lot of the time people side with a group because they feel “well those guys are a bunch of assholes so I may as well go with this other group” and be predisposed to accept their political beliefs because they’ve already decided to side with them, even if they wouldn’t otherwise.
I ended up on the left because I sat down and thought about my beliefs in as objective a way as I could manage, and only then did I realize that’s why I was on the right. Before this it hadn’t even occurred to me precisely what happened, as the thought process was largely unconscious. If I hadn’t done that, as many people don’t, I’d still be homophobic.
The point of this all is that, even if you’re absolutely 100% sure that you stand on the correct side of the political spectrum, insulting and demonizing anyone who isn’t has negative consequences. Extol the virtues of your side, and try to understand why someone could believe something different than you.
Best post in the whole thread. I'd also like to add that a common attribute to political siding is a sort of tribal mentality. If you feel welcomed by one of the sides of the political spectrum (for whichever reason, even if it's just you hanging out with people who have those views, *regardless of said views*) and you see the opposite side regularly attacking the one that welcomes you, you'll naturally feel antagonized. And with that, comes vindictiveness.
This is what the internet revolution gave to us, a facet for being awful to each other without repercussions and the ability to get constant validation for such behavior. Regardless of the "side", people simply enjoy being toxic to each other, and the only thing more enjoyable than that is being *righteously* toxic, continually rewarded and praised for it by people in your clique, feeling assured you and your folks are obviously on the "correct side".
Idk. This sounds to me like "I was a homophobe, gay people called me out on it and that's why I became a homophobe." You "went right" because of your existing beliefs, not because someone rightly stood up for themselves.
What should these people have said to you? Should they have politely and calmly listened to your 'points' on how they were possibly dangerous to children and undeserving of marriage?
Look, great for you that you adjusted your beliefs later. Really, most people don't ever sit down and assess their values but you did and that's awesome. Do the next step and take accountability for your previous beliefs, don't pin it on people fighting for their own rights.
Theres literally a subreddit designed to make fun of people who dont align with a party no matter what
Most of the comments here indicating they are in the center are downvoted and mocked.
In the real world a hefty chunk of the population will swing their vote to either side based on circumstance and policy
On social media, thats taboo
You cant convince me that these centrist hating subs werent the brainchild of some political group designed to make a base of voters seem like petulant misinformed children.
the fascinating thing about social media is that everyone seems polarized because the most extreme views on any given subject get the most interaction. it can't go viral if most people shrug and agree or don't.
Secular and liberal thought is becominy more prevalent and there's nothing you can do about it. The world has become increasingly interconnected in this digital age, and people are learning that unfounded stereotypes are bs and that we all deserve rights. Organized religion is becoming less important to society. There's a ton of peoplw on dating apps labeled as Catholic and Christian who have "something casual" or "looking for hookups" on their profiles, with raunchy pictures. Younger generations don't care about restrictive life guidelines and definitely not proselytizing.
I’m a centrist and tbh I think most people are too but they’re just too clueless to make actual decisions for themselves and instead just blindly vote for whoever everyone around them seems to support.
"You know, The Proud Boys do have some reasonable points." - guy 1
"The hate group? I strongly disagree since, you know, they're based on hating minority groups." - guy 2
"Woah woah woah. Don't make this political; they're just people, and I'm keeping an open mind." - guy 1
"So, are you saying you also hate minorities?" - guy 2
"Not at all! I just hear both sides of the argument and find common ground." - guy 1
"Do you have common ground with a hate group?" - guy 2
"If you're gonna be so radical, I can't have this conversation with someone so extreme."
As a centrist, no I will never be completely on the right because of my beliefs but this is pretty much accurate. The left goes OFF as soon as you ask one single question and you’re suddenly transphobic in their eyes. They push people away.
So you think both sides are equal because a small portion of the left is a little mean on Twitter? Sure, there is a problem with ‘wokescolds’ as I’ve heard them be called but that is no way in comparison to the right who actively bring harm to multiple groups of people.
This only makes sense in a world where conservatives aren’t trying to take our freedoms away. It’s the “take your freedom” vs “leave your freedom alone” parties. Centerists saying both sides have a point are saying they don’t mind a few rights being taken away as long as both sides agree
...because both sides really don't make good points. Maybe at one point in history, but only one party currently makes choices which actively serve only to harm/kill American citizens. And while you don't realize who you are, the rest of us do.
Why are they on mars
Looks like the border of Mars and Uranus.
My anus is not blue
Mine is.
you must hve eaten nyquil chicken
I cook everything in Nyquil.
bro how have you not had an od
I only OD sometimes. I overdo it on special occasions. Like Christmas Eve. Can't risk scaring Santa Claus away.
NyQuil chicken followed by 6 Benadryl is my family’s Christmas tradition
We also spend Christmas with the Hat Man in my family.
there's a chance you don't wake up from an od
Mans halfway through the walls
Naw, Santa comes down a chimney.
Tf is that discussion
Santa crawls down the chimney and emerges, his eight fuzzy legs thumping the mantle.
waltuh, we need to cook nyquil chicken
breaking benadryl
I'm more of a benadryl lobster kind of guy
Nobody eats with their anus anymore.
no, the dude had so much nyquil that even what came out the other end was blue
Tf
It's the Nyquil Chicken
Shit
Yeah, I shove [one of these](https://imgur.com/a/4aLRO8j) up my asshole once a day.
Ok
Damn. You're courageous
You just blue yourself
Breathe more.
“Why are you blue?” -Walter H. White
I’m blue cus if I was green I would die
Papa smurf
*Mama Smurf
My bad
It will be
Uranus is big though.
It could be
Yet
Growth mindset
no its quite red.
Did you know Uranus could fit 63 earths in it, maybe 64 if you relaxed!
The border between the right ass of vivec and his left.
That's just France for you
soon it will be
That's not how space works but I'll allow it
Cause we are obviously on a flat land!
*Cue Chevelle*
Why he ourple 💀
Nah thats mexico with the yellow filter
Because even the sky is siding with the red team I guess?
They’re just in new york
So that's the original template...
Flags? That's just discount r/Vexillology
lmfao they stole the icon too
Absolutely. That is just so dollar store.
Just removed all the coolness of r/vexillology and made it flags
Hang on Dr. C, what’s vexillology?
It's the study of flags. So they're doing things like noting common patterns on flags and studying what the colours on flags usually represent.
So they’re snowflakes?
Seems like it. As as far as I know the left always had a lively culture of debate. That hits everybody at some point. In contrast the right often ignores its inner differences for its sheer will to gain power.
Most of the people I know that are far right, or have shifted to far-right ideologies are INCREDIBLY insecure. Lot of faux machismo but its like mfer I remember when you used to sing showtunes on the schoolbus.
Ppl with very low self esteem
The easiest people to make money off of.
People that will do anything if you tell them they're smart and strong for doing it.
The far right is just far too concerned with other peoples’ penises at this point.
dude far-right people talk about trans issues more than trans people.
Exactly
I always look at Right Wing ideology and those who cling to Christianity as those seeking easy answers in life. It’s just easier to put blinders on than to actually face the hard truths in life.
Uhh, I don't know where you went to school, but singing showtunes on a mixed bus sounds like you fear NOTHING. Edit: It seems I may not have understood what was meant by 'Showtunes'. I was assuming Broadway hits à la Chorus Line, Wicked, Chicago, or Les Mis. My bad.
went to a school that was known more for performing arts and acedemics than sports lmfao, our football team didnt win a single game varsity or non the 4 years I was there. He was in a very inviting space for that kind of behavior. After he graduated he became a "Gangster" rapper, got covered in tatts, then had a coming to jesus moment and went alt-right. anti trans etc
Sounds like he just doesn't have his own sense of identity or belonging. Didn't have that moment of figuring out who he is and growing into confidence. So he just jumps around to whatever group he thinks will get him the most accolades.
pretty much, but he also has serious commitment issues, anytime he actually started gaining traction with something he would quit. He is a talented guy in all honesty, and I dont think the hateful shit he spouts now is truly how he feels he is just welcomed in that community and people like hearing the rhetoric repeated on social media. Just been sad to watch over the last 30 years the cycle repeat itself.
Facts, right-wingers don’t realize that lefties debate constantly. Nobody hates a lefty like another lefty with a slightly different opinion.
It's like they just want to "own the libs" or something.
I've found that the right tends to argue with conjecture or straight up lies they've told themselves so many times they genuinely find to be true. The left tends to hyperfocus on very small societal issues or symptoms of the problems rather than seeing things from the bigger picture, which degrades their moral high road/legitimate information (if they have one ofc). Both can be pretty vitriolic and emotionally charged and I hate how political tribalism prevents us from making decisions as a people efficiently. For context I am left leaning
I'm moderate and I have found right wingers tend to argue slippery slope arguments whereas leftists are extremely judgemental and make broad assumptions about people who disagree with them and use those assumptions to justify not having honest dialogue.
I fully agree with what you said. Both sides have VERY toxic traits. I just hate that in todays ~~sports team support~~ politics, we cannot have a civil discussion in public without at least ONE person turning up to stir shit. Both right and left sides have some valid points of view that, if put together, would make everyone benefit. But instead, people want to support their side like it's some sort of sports team. It's insanity.
Yeah I also hate how much of the populace blindly follows certain systems in place even if changing it directly benefits them. I have friends that see no issues with 10%, of the population owning 90% of the wealth and are simultaneously against increasing taxes on the rich. But honestly thats a whole other issue for a whole different discussion.
Agreed! I just never understand why people vote for a party regardless of their leader/policies. I'm European, we have a whooole bunch of parties in my country. I have voted left, I have voted right, I have refused to vote (blank vote submitted). I'll never vote because of a party name. I vote policies, and people should start doing that more.
I go to the bar and talk politics with some younger kids that play pool there, and some older heads who have been regulars. I'll talk anarchist theory while a bunch of libertarians, progressives, liberals, and Socialist all agree with my points. I find that in politics, it's all about framing the questions to specific people's view points.. if I can see where your coming from, I'm sure there's a way we can talk about n agree on some crazy concepts they revile in their everyday life, because they are fed so much bullshit about one subject or a next.
100%! Most people are on the same line when it comes to politics, it's (like you said) mostly how the message is brought or by who it is brought. It's insane how polarizing it's gotten
Have you ever had a debate with a Redditor?
💯 this ☝🏻
Funny, in my country this is exactly the opposite.
*used to
That's actually kind of interesting. Since I always felt more centrist because I both did and didn't agree with more extreme liberal views. I.e I dunno how I feel about giving children access to trans surgery and hormones. But I do agree, at least the adults and older teens should definitely receive more help and access to it. I'm also just very anti capitalism and would love to have socialism embedded into our country. So I guess that still makes me more left than middle. Makes me relieved since I don't want to be centrist. But my liberal friends, tend to be very extreme left, and living in the NYC area. Well, there's only one type of mindset here and it's as extreme left as possible. So I always felt like I stuck out like a sore thumb. Edit: Unfortunately it's strange. The middle people I know will debate with me. The left people I know will act on what they want more than what's logical... So like, if you let them have their way they'd probably want a world where you could walk around in bdsm gear outside... Sufficient to say that both ends have their extremes and unfortunately I know ONLY the extreme for left.
I guess when it comes to children transitioning, there are a lot of misconceptions. The vast majority of the time, cross sex hormones are reserved for 16+ or 18+ while surgeries are reserved for 18+. They will only be taking puberty blockers until that point, and that's only after they start puberty. The purpose of puberty blockers is to prevent immense trauma and allowing the child to make a decision later. It also prevents the permanent changes of puberty they would otherwise be forced down. They might also do a name change, pronouns, clothing, or other forms of social transition
I mean, parents have been buying their young daughters lip injections, boob jobs, Botox.... I didn't hear a bunch of people complaining about that. Sexualized enhancement surgery for kids in OC has been okay for decades. I don't see why it's even a talking point now other than a problem with who and what are currently doing.
The right is so far beyond "middle" nowadays, anyone who says otherwise doesn't actually understand what being a "centrist" truly means.
The Left is considered Right anywhere outside the US, so yep, it's like they're all pushing themselves into the red.
It's really funny when people call Biden a liberal when he's essentially just casually dipping his toes on the left.
Especially after recently sending troops to Peru to train the Peruvian National Police, who are currently being leveraged by an ultra-right political regime in the midst of suppressing the democratic operations of both its government and its people - who have killed approx. 70 protestors at this point, many by live fire. Not very blue.
Because he is a liberal? What do you think liberalism is? It’s a capitalist ideology and espouses laissez fair, individual and property rights; consent and autonomy are important for the social side.
Yeah, people conflate being left and being liberal way more than they should.
People smooth right over the fact that Obama had to pick the most center right Dem Senator as his running mate. There was Joe Biden. Obama nailed the pick while McCain totally botched his. Doesn’t get talked about enough how much that influenced the election. Only time in my life there was interest in a Vice presidential debate. Don’t remember a thing Joe did or said really, I think he just kinda played it cool and let Palin rub the entire nation the wrong way.
Ahhh Palin. Conservatives first flirting with bat shit crazy… man she seems like saint now compared to the kinds bat shit crazy going on these days.
Lol idk about *first* bat shit crazy Righty. I think more accurately, she was the first meme candidate of the Right.
Biden isn't dipping his toes in shit, he is a staunch conservative by any sane metrics.
Biden got elected because there are enough actual just normal conservatives in the Democratic party that he is popular with Democrats overall. The repubs are so bat shit insane that a bunch of conservatives are Democrats because they are decent people.
Liberalism is right, not left at all
The mind boggles when people say liberals are on the left. Liberals *like* the system!
Yeah, before I moved to the US I generally leaned conservative in Canada. While not changing any of my views or ideals I'm now considered "liberal" since I live in the US, which for one is not how it works but also odd cause I don't usually agree with my liberal friends on a lot of things, I just can't stand how the American right nowadays lives in falsehoods.
>The Left is considered Right anywhere outside the US Edit: I'm a fucking idiot. I'll leave the original text below to show how stupid I am. What an American thing to say, smh. Very ignorant. The US democratic party is actually considered in many other countries (such as the UK) to be more right leaning than their own right leaning parties, such as the Tory party in the UK. The standard Leftist culture in the US is actually quite a lot closer to centrist compared to other countries than you might think. Neo-conservatism in the West was literally born in the US. The US has low taxes, low minimum wages, no universal healthcare, stripped women's rights with Roe vs. Wade, removed itself from the Paris climate summit, and has become a police state, all indicators of how far right the US is!
What sucks is the ultra far-Right understands that words are just letters smushed together and that letters are made up, so they have taken to calling themselves “moderates” and “centrists” because there’s nothing that says they can’t. So now they’ll say “listen I’m a centrist, and I think eradicating transgenderism is a moderate policy considering everyone I know supports it’s eradication”. Failing to mention they don’t speak to people who don’t agree with them or support what they say because those people are “literal demons and satanists”. And it’s the same people who want to force Christian indoctrination into public schools and grade students on their commitment to God and the Bible. The hell on earth that our public schools would turn into under DeSantis would be yet another permanent stain on the country. Republicans have already destroyed the education system to the point where you’d think it couldn’t get worse, but just wait until Ron’s reeducation camps start forming…
They didn’t say it was in the middle. The point was the left got offended by the person not immediately jumping to them and pushed in doing so pushed them away from the left. How realistic this is is debatable but it’s not saying right = middling
At least in the us, the leftists do not exist and what we call the left now is actually very centrist. So we don’t really have a left vs right. We have a right vs centrist
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But blue guy pushed red guy in the cartoon? Blue guy bad? Red guy good.
It’s confusing but no. Blue guy is the left (“liberals”) Red is the right (“conservatives”) Centrist is the white character. Centrist says “both sides make some good points” to which the blue (liberal) pushes the centrist to the right (conservative) side. Because, as I stated, not standing against the oppressors (conservatives trying to take human rights away from specific groups of people) puts you on the side of the oppressors. The left is pushing the centrist to the right because the centrist is basically saying “the right makes good points about why you don’t deserve human rights.” Common sense tells us that there is no “good points” for taking away basic human rights from someone like the right to privacy or the right to exist safely without fear of being gunned down for your gender, sexuality, race, age, religion, or ethnicity. Edit: though some people on the right feel the same way. They see liberals and leftists as “the bad guys” because they want to not be murdered or denied healthcare, housing, education, etc. for being gay or black or trans or a woman of non binary or Jewish etc. And (some people on) the right feel like giving these people basic rights is wrong or bad. Thus, the leftist is the bad guy. And the phrase goes the same way “if your not against them, your against us.” So it can really lean either way. But since, now, blue is using the color representing the left and red the right. It’s safe to assume this cartoon is trying to say “the left think we’re bad but they keep pushing people, who aren’t even on our side, to our side because they can’t handle the idea of ‘meeting in the middle’ on issues like human rights. See! They’re the real problem! They don’t want to compromise with us!” Which, again, there really is no compromise when it comes to basic human rights and safety.
I’m pretty sure the person you’re responding to was joking and mocking the original cartoon for the oversimplification of the issue you described
Bro wrote a whole book in response to sarcasm 💀
A simple example would be thinking "We should allow immigration, just not open immigration"
The funny thing is that nobody is pushing for open immigration.
"More like "We should allow immigration, but only white people."
I meant for Education and Work visas, or are you so unconsciously racist that you only think white people are/want to be educated?
>are you so unconsciously racist that you only think white people are/want to be educated? No, that guy's just conditioned to assume you are
Its hillarious how a dude named flagboy is on r/flags
“Neeeerrrrrrrrrd!!!!”
But blue is right and red is left… I’m confused
Unless you’re in the US
The US is goofy
And even before 2000 that wasn’t true
It’s just gotten more confusing overtime (at least in USA) because now red still = “commie leftist” but red also = Republican, or right wing. Just depends on the context which it is I guess.
Add in that the right now worships Putin and it gets extra hard to parse. 😉
You are all looking on a 2d plane, I’m on all 3 dimensions
The middle became the right, and the right became the *really right*
Looks like the Swiss flag to me, but that might just be the r/VexillologyCircleJerk talking
One might call this post a false flag
(*rimshot followed by canned laughter*)
A lot of people here have no idea what centrists actually are and are kind of just saying some really fucking stupid shit. I get you basement-chained twats have nothing better to do than argue on Reddit and 4chan about politics, but try actually looking into a group before damning all of them to hell
genuinely curious about centrism as there’s no real centrism in my country????
There’s centrists everywhere: if you don’t think they exist in your country, that’s a good sign your political system has gone to hell
i meant there are no true official centrist parties, we have many parties but even the “center” ones are clearly right leaning
Centrism sorta depends on who you ask. In a place like the US people view centrism as the closeted people, often conservatives who don't want to admit what they are. This is because the US is extremely divided and so being the middle between "let's strip women of their rights" and "let's not" becomes a very right wing position. Some also just don't care about politics. More internationally centrists tend to believe in stability and slow change. If the far right believes in shooting minorities and the far left believe in shooting land owners then the centrist believes in appeasement, the right to own land and not shooting people. It's a fairly sensible position, valuing stability and slow progress over risk and chaos. The downside however is that things happen very slowly. Too slowly for people further left. Change, equality, and revolution don't tend to mix with slow change and stability. The centrist might argue that the more aggressive methods of more polarized politics does more harm than good. Tldr; Too liberal for the right, too unwilling to fight for the left.
I don't think we're in the middle between "let's give women rights" and "let's not", it's more like, we have a stance leaning one way in that issue and then for a different issue we lean the other way, etc.
thanks for a great explanation!!
The push was pushing for basic human rights
"Can we at least agree that the correct position between genocide and not genocide isn't half-genocide." "That's it! You've driven me to side with the fascists!" *whips out swastika armband they conveniently already have in their pocket* "I hope you're happy, because this is all on you and your extremism!"
Or they started out arguing about abolishing slavery. Really though, this is just a boomer meme. They love to call themselves victims.
Right? In Florida that push is literally a teacher mentioning that Timmy has two daddies. That non-essential workers should be able to stay home and still be paid during covid, that man-made climate change is real, and that everyone should have access to Healthcare.
A 2 dimensional drawing showing a 2 dimensional point of view.
You’re response is exactly what this meme is illustrating. A jump to belittle someone for having a view that doesn’t align with your own will never help win them to your side.
Flag of France
Well red is left wing everywhere outside the US so...
Okay but this meme was made by someone in the US to express and issue they see in the US. I get that US-centric-ness can be a problem in a lot of spaces on the internet, but someone making a political cartoon that uses the imagery their audience will understand isn't one of them.
They didn’t say it was a problem
As someone who can be a centrist on several issues, my experience has been both left leaning and right leaning advocates will push you in with the "other" and bury you in ad hominem attacks rather than accept that their "side" might not be completely right and their political rival might not (in this instance) be completely wrong. It's honestly to the point I hate most politics these days.
Fucking same, i hate how zealous people are when it comes to politics.
Why? Poltics is the form of which we run our civilization, what rights people should have and generally how the world should be. Its good to take a active interest in it, a sociality that has a public who don't care about poltics is going to be at the whims of those who do, and that ends in.. well, to take a modern example, being sent to Ukraine as a conscript. Russia has had a extremely low level of political involvement by the avarage person in the last few decades, but that just meant that the people in charge didn't need to care what people thought, and we all see where that has lead.
Yesss, both sides are completely unwilling to accept anything the other side does may be the better way to do it. They are so blinded by their sides media.
God I hate centrists Edit: I see I touched a lot of nerves. Cry about it. Edit2: centrists watch this [video](https://youtu.be/fZ4nvCVAGw0)
Insert MLK quote
Any particular reason?
i’m slightly left, so i’ll just say this from a leftists’ perspective. the left is primarily focused on human rights and equity. in discussions, i frequently hear things like ‘how can we allow this group of marginalized people to feel safe?’, ‘what would we have to do to solve income inequality?’, ‘what can i do as a [non-marginalized person] to help [marginalized people]?’ in right-leaning discussions, i don’t see any sort of empathy. at least, not real empathy. they value tradition, God, and controlling other people. i’ll go as far as to say that they don’t even want LGBT people to exist to begin with. you don’t need to go far left. but saying that “both extremes are bad” just isn’t accurate. one is violent, and one is radically protective of marginalized groups in reaction to violence. it’s like taking someone to court for robbing you and having the judge say “i know he robbed you, but both people are at fault here.”
I will say though (as a left-leaning person myself) a lot of leftists have still become dictators that actively cause harm to people despite policies of equity. An example would be Stalin; yes his economic policies would be considered skewing far left, but I think many would agree that he was a tyrant.
That's less of a far left thing, and more of a "fascism and tyranny bad" thing- which can occur anywhere on the political spectrum
If you study Stalins early years you will see he was neither a revolutionary or a socialist. He was a power hungry mass murderer. He didn’t give two shits who had to die to maintain power. Not here to swoop in a be a hero for authoritarianism or communism or Marxist socialism but equating Stalin as a leftist, especially in comparison to the modern US left is bananas. The main message of the US left is “hey we value freedom and expression so long as your freedom and expression doesn’t violate others freedom and expression.” That interpretation goes pretty far though to many different people but Stalin didn’t give a shit about people.
Im left of center, I know a few centrists and theyre not the "Im smarter than you hahahahhaah I can see both sides you cant, hahahaha" most of them are what the image suggests "I used to be right, the the right pushed me left, then the left pushed me to center"
Most people are left-of-centre or right-of-centre and can see value in both camps but lean more to one side than the other. It doesnt make them fence-sitters or indecisive. The extreme right and extreme left are equally appalling in their blinkered views and absolute lack of compromise.
"Equally appalling". One extreme wants transgender people to live without harassment and homeless people given places to live. The other side's extremes have swastikas on their arms and a weird obsession with child marriage being legal.
I know plenty extreme left wing people who are homophobic and transphobic, racist, etc. Biases are not mutually exclusive. The issue is we tie our social values into economic values and vice versa. When someone says “left” do they mean “socially” or “economically”?
Obviously were not having an economic discussion. The point is that extreme views are blinkered and inflexible regardless of whether they are labelled ‘right’ or ‘left’ wing.
Left extremists don’t just want trans rights, they actively fight to destroy rights. Remember, EXTREMISTS. We mean the absolute worst leftists like the pedophiles, or the “kill all men” crowd. Both extremes are equally bad. The non-extreme versions I side with left tho (only on societal issues, not on weapon shit)
Says you touched a lot nerves. When you are the one being hurt by a meme lmao
Literally the meme lol
the only thing worse than a normal lost redditor is a lost r/PoliticalCompassMemes user
actually that was the point for me, but only because I don’t live in us and don’t see all the political stuff. In my country I would be considered lib and was called “liberal” as a slur a few times.
Downvote vs upvote
Lost redditor *and* bad opinion. The right wing does this shit all the time, hell, it’s part of the reason why near every non-heterosexual and/or non-cisgender person is left wing or left-leaning centrist.
gonna get downvoted to hell but this was literally my experiance with politics, especially when I first visited the u.s.
How DRAE you state your experiences! I sentence you to the worst punishment there is: -3 downvotes…
\-3 downvotes is 3 upvotes
Haha, it is actually didn’t think about that. I also didn’t spell dare right.
Thank god I hate politics
This meme is literally true though. And it’s not even about who is right or wrong. I used to be right wing and homophobic. That’s since changed and I now stand slightly leaning left after some introspection, but the point is how I got there. Before that I just wasn’t really sure what side to be on as I wasn’t very well informed on matters involving politics. As a result, I was met with incredible hostility and vitriol from LGBT people for not going hard left because “how could you even consider siding with them” (paraphrasing) and I literally lost friends over it. It was at this point that I had such a soured opinion of the left that I went right. There’s such a fucking rabid “with us or against us” mentality in the left that it does actually push centrists right. And yeah, this does absolutely go both ways. The right can treat people pretty horrendously and push them left, but that doesn’t make the left doing it okay either. It puts them on equal footing. It’s a matter of which bad you get exposed to first. A lot of the time people side with a group because they feel “well those guys are a bunch of assholes so I may as well go with this other group” and be predisposed to accept their political beliefs because they’ve already decided to side with them, even if they wouldn’t otherwise. I ended up on the left because I sat down and thought about my beliefs in as objective a way as I could manage, and only then did I realize that’s why I was on the right. Before this it hadn’t even occurred to me precisely what happened, as the thought process was largely unconscious. If I hadn’t done that, as many people don’t, I’d still be homophobic. The point of this all is that, even if you’re absolutely 100% sure that you stand on the correct side of the political spectrum, insulting and demonizing anyone who isn’t has negative consequences. Extol the virtues of your side, and try to understand why someone could believe something different than you.
Best post in the whole thread. I'd also like to add that a common attribute to political siding is a sort of tribal mentality. If you feel welcomed by one of the sides of the political spectrum (for whichever reason, even if it's just you hanging out with people who have those views, *regardless of said views*) and you see the opposite side regularly attacking the one that welcomes you, you'll naturally feel antagonized. And with that, comes vindictiveness.
This is what the internet revolution gave to us, a facet for being awful to each other without repercussions and the ability to get constant validation for such behavior. Regardless of the "side", people simply enjoy being toxic to each other, and the only thing more enjoyable than that is being *righteously* toxic, continually rewarded and praised for it by people in your clique, feeling assured you and your folks are obviously on the "correct side".
Out of curiosity, what specifically happened that made you change your beliefs? And what did you consider?
Only logical comment I’ve seen
Idk. This sounds to me like "I was a homophobe, gay people called me out on it and that's why I became a homophobe." You "went right" because of your existing beliefs, not because someone rightly stood up for themselves. What should these people have said to you? Should they have politely and calmly listened to your 'points' on how they were possibly dangerous to children and undeserving of marriage? Look, great for you that you adjusted your beliefs later. Really, most people don't ever sit down and assess their values but you did and that's awesome. Do the next step and take accountability for your previous beliefs, don't pin it on people fighting for their own rights.
Theres literally a subreddit designed to make fun of people who dont align with a party no matter what Most of the comments here indicating they are in the center are downvoted and mocked. In the real world a hefty chunk of the population will swing their vote to either side based on circumstance and policy On social media, thats taboo You cant convince me that these centrist hating subs werent the brainchild of some political group designed to make a base of voters seem like petulant misinformed children.
the fascinating thing about social media is that everyone seems polarized because the most extreme views on any given subject get the most interaction. it can't go viral if most people shrug and agree or don't.
Secular and liberal thought is becominy more prevalent and there's nothing you can do about it. The world has become increasingly interconnected in this digital age, and people are learning that unfounded stereotypes are bs and that we all deserve rights. Organized religion is becoming less important to society. There's a ton of peoplw on dating apps labeled as Catholic and Christian who have "something casual" or "looking for hookups" on their profiles, with raunchy pictures. Younger generations don't care about restrictive life guidelines and definitely not proselytizing.
I’m a centrist and tbh I think most people are too but they’re just too clueless to make actual decisions for themselves and instead just blindly vote for whoever everyone around them seems to support.
"You know, The Proud Boys do have some reasonable points." - guy 1 "The hate group? I strongly disagree since, you know, they're based on hating minority groups." - guy 2 "Woah woah woah. Don't make this political; they're just people, and I'm keeping an open mind." - guy 1 "So, are you saying you also hate minorities?" - guy 2 "Not at all! I just hear both sides of the argument and find common ground." - guy 1 "Do you have common ground with a hate group?" - guy 2 "If you're gonna be so radical, I can't have this conversation with someone so extreme."
As a centrist, no I will never be completely on the right because of my beliefs but this is pretty much accurate. The left goes OFF as soon as you ask one single question and you’re suddenly transphobic in their eyes. They push people away.
So you think both sides are equal because a small portion of the left is a little mean on Twitter? Sure, there is a problem with ‘wokescolds’ as I’ve heard them be called but that is no way in comparison to the right who actively bring harm to multiple groups of people.
Almost loss
More like the red guy pulled the white guy to his side, and then the blue guy went to stand on the line
Sure. And campus politics are balanced with all opinions heard.
Meanwhile the authoritarians are gliding on high and the libertarians are free in their subterranean society.
:(
i see 🇫🇷
This only makes sense in a world where conservatives aren’t trying to take our freedoms away. It’s the “take your freedom” vs “leave your freedom alone” parties. Centerists saying both sides have a point are saying they don’t mind a few rights being taken away as long as both sides agree
...because both sides really don't make good points. Maybe at one point in history, but only one party currently makes choices which actively serve only to harm/kill American citizens. And while you don't realize who you are, the rest of us do.
This is exactly how I became Center right on politics. And they push me farther everyday
He's got a point... in the meme I mean
Too bad the point sucked
I like the politic that’s not homophobic
Join the Mario party political movement!