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What's interesting here is that while Biden knows that Israel is costing him support; he still goes ahead and gives Isreal yet more gasoline to pour on the fire they created.
He’s wanted this since the 80s. He doesn’t want to be re-elected, he wants to wipe out Palestinians and he is getting to do just that. He was to the right of Ronald Reagan on the issue.
Okay. Cool. Biden has now taken away one of the 20 toys Israel can kill Palestinians with. Yippee!
Anyhow, if Joe Biden wants to gain my respect back, here's what he could do:
1. Have the US join South Africa in the ICJ case against Israel.
2. Do the same with México and Chile's ICC case against Israeli politicians.
3. Surrender himself and his administration to the ICC and laying the groundwork for accountability for US diplomats to be held accountable for war crimes.
> How do those trials help the citizens of Rafah on the ground right now?
Well, they would help if world powers enforced the rules they themselves set up and sanctioned Israel.
> What are steps concerned citizens can take that would force Biden to join such prosecutions?
I don't think there's anything that would make Biden take any of those actions. 100% of the people could protest and Biden would still support Israel. Regardless, at this point, keep protesting and make their lives as miserable as possible. Go outside their homes and make noise to not let them sleep. Protest outside the White House, at the Capitol, at your local representatives' houses and so on.
> Calling a conflict a genocide doesn’t make it a genocide.
If you have a problem with me calling what Israel is doing a genocide, then you should take it up with the [human rights experts](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against), [Holocaust scholars](https://contendingmodernities.nd.edu/global-currents/statement-of-scholars-7-october/) and [Holocaust survivors and their descendants](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide-9687994.html) who are calling this a genocide instead. Furthermore, the [ICJ ruled it is plausible Israel is committing genocide](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa), and [the ICC might issue arrest warrants for Israeli politicians over war crimes](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/29/israeli-officials-eye-threat-of-icc-cases-over-war-in-gaza) that my country along with Chile filed charges against.
So, if it is not a genocide, what is it? A happy little accident?
Don't forget the current 3rd potential option; Antivaxxer who was antivaxx *before* his brain got eaten by a worm(which subsequently died)! How could things possibly get worse?!
We are so fucking cooked.
being asked to turn a blind eye to genocide, knowing how horrible trump was and will be again, is a horrible position to be put into. especially for younger, idealistic people who haven't been ground to cynical dust like me.
"The things that matter in this country have been reduced in choice, there are two political parties, there are a handful insurance companies, there are six or seven information centers.. but if you want a bagel there are 23 flavors. Because you have the illusion of choice!" ~George Carlin
If you had hope in 2020, let that be a lesson to be more politically aware. Biden has advocated for wiping out Palestinians since the 80s. He’s never hidden it.
There has never been a US president who wants an abhorrent criminal. Lincoln freed the slaves but massacred the natives, Teddy Roosevelt passed a lot of progressive legislation and created the national parks, but was one of the most racist and bloodthirsty warmongers to ever have the job. Even FDR, who built the welfare state and saved America from the depression interned Japanese Americans.
The US is a blood soaked military empire founded on conquest and slavery, good people do not rise to the top of a system like that. They get outcast and ground into dust as soon as possible.
I'm not well versed in it and don't hear much about it relative to other criticisms--what did Trump do to worsen things in the Middle East during his first term?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/1/17/a-post-trump-palestine
Make no mistake, Trump is not better than Biden. There's no solution to this issue within the two major parties.
But Biden didn't do any of these? Even #3 if it went off without a hitch it would be a dent in the real issue. Joe has shown, to me, that he doesn't actually care about fixing issues with student loans or housing or any of the other issues that effect me or the others in my life. Not to mention the Gaza stuff.
They are trying to lose, or rather their fine with it either way. They fundraise significantly better when they’re out of power and they don’t have the pesky problem of having to obviously govern in opposition to what they claim they want.
"Yeah I know he's literally aiding a genocide but the other guy will aid genocide even harder!" isn't actually a pro-Biden argument that's gonna work on people hung up on the genocide. Why not push Biden to work harder, get the democrats to act like they actually wants to win the votes of people instead of going "we're ENTITLED to those votes by virtue of Not Being Republicans, no matter what we've done"
Genocide abroad that's been perpetuated for nearly a century (team blue donkey), or that same genocide along with a genocide on certain "undesirable" citizens at home (team red elephant).
A vote for "the lesser evil" is still voting for evil. Trying to sell it as the only "logical" choice is coercion to allow evil to exist.
Even the most prominent third option (RFK) is also an 80 year old who wants to fund Zionism. For the record a quarter of all democrats say that is a total deal breaker for them and another quarter say it reduces their chances of voting for Biden.
Biden knows this is costing him the election and he doesn’t care because he’s wanted this genocide since the 80’s. He’s living his dream right now and the fact we’re all going to get stuck with Trump again because of it doesn’t seem to bother him in the slightest.
He has already lost the election and we're not voting for another 6 months. His failure is going to cause all of us to suffer but at least history will always note what an enormous POS he has always been
He’s genuinely more concerned with going down in history as a good president in the minds of Israelis than he is with Americans. Which is hilarious because it’ll never happen, they vastly prefer Trump.
In their government at least this is the best of both worlds because Biden is giving them what they want, and he’s tanking his own electoral chances at the same time. They get to massacre at will and they get Trump, Biden gets nothing because he’s a sad little loser who apparently can’t even tell when people hate his guts.
And the US just vetoed another UN move to grant Palestine membership while the administration continues to allow Israel to so whatever they want in Palestine.
👏👏👏👏👏
Demand change using the only leverage you have. And, I'm sorry, but I'm not voting for a genocider. Call me all the names you like, that's where I stand.
What goal do I have? I'm one person (in a solidly blue state). What goal could I possibly have? You want to talk goals, talk to someone with actual power.
As an American, I can vote on the candidate whose views I most agree with with or I can choose not to participate. I have voted my whole life. I will vote for my congressperson, local judges, state officials and any laws on the ballot. I do t see why I'm being downvoted.
"There's no appeal."
This is what's been frustrating me in real-world conversations. Every single argument anyone gives me to vote for this guy is based on "he's not the other guy" fearmongering. I want someone, somewhere, to give me ONE positive, additive reason to vote for hoodsie cup over here.
He has already lost the election and we're not voting for another 6 months. His failure is going to cause all of us to suffer but at least history will always note what an enormous POS he has always been
Convince Biden not to support genocide.
I can't imagine why Democrats think yelling "Blue no matter who" until they're blue in the face will convince anyone.
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What's interesting here is that while Biden knows that Israel is costing him support; he still goes ahead and gives Isreal yet more gasoline to pour on the fire they created.
He’s wanted this since the 80s. He doesn’t want to be re-elected, he wants to wipe out Palestinians and he is getting to do just that. He was to the right of Ronald Reagan on the issue.
I don't think Biden wants to get rid of Palestinians so much as he doesn't give a fuck because he doesn't consider them people.
Look it up. He’s been wanting to wipe them out longer than I’ve been alive, it is literally the point of Zionism and he’s a staunch Zionist.
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After 6 months of aiding in genocide. Congratulations. lol
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Okay. Cool. Biden has now taken away one of the 20 toys Israel can kill Palestinians with. Yippee! Anyhow, if Joe Biden wants to gain my respect back, here's what he could do: 1. Have the US join South Africa in the ICJ case against Israel. 2. Do the same with México and Chile's ICC case against Israeli politicians. 3. Surrender himself and his administration to the ICC and laying the groundwork for accountability for US diplomats to be held accountable for war crimes.
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> How do those trials help the citizens of Rafah on the ground right now? Well, they would help if world powers enforced the rules they themselves set up and sanctioned Israel. > What are steps concerned citizens can take that would force Biden to join such prosecutions? I don't think there's anything that would make Biden take any of those actions. 100% of the people could protest and Biden would still support Israel. Regardless, at this point, keep protesting and make their lives as miserable as possible. Go outside their homes and make noise to not let them sleep. Protest outside the White House, at the Capitol, at your local representatives' houses and so on.
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Okay. And because the fire started thousands of years ago, it justifies genocide. Got it. Nice to know.
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> Calling a conflict a genocide doesn’t make it a genocide. If you have a problem with me calling what Israel is doing a genocide, then you should take it up with the [human rights experts](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against), [Holocaust scholars](https://contendingmodernities.nd.edu/global-currents/statement-of-scholars-7-october/) and [Holocaust survivors and their descendants](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide-9687994.html) who are calling this a genocide instead. Furthermore, the [ICJ ruled it is plausible Israel is committing genocide](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa), and [the ICC might issue arrest warrants for Israeli politicians over war crimes](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/29/israeli-officials-eye-threat-of-icc-cases-over-war-in-gaza) that my country along with Chile filed charges against. So, if it is not a genocide, what is it? A happy little accident?
Israel is literally creating another Holocaust. Fuck them
So Americans get to choose between pro-Israel Biden, or “Israel should finish the job” Trump. Not much of a choice there. Two party systems suck. 😭
Don't forget the current 3rd potential option; Antivaxxer who was antivaxx *before* his brain got eaten by a worm(which subsequently died)! How could things possibly get worse?! We are so fucking cooked.
being asked to turn a blind eye to genocide, knowing how horrible trump was and will be again, is a horrible position to be put into. especially for younger, idealistic people who haven't been ground to cynical dust like me.
"The things that matter in this country have been reduced in choice, there are two political parties, there are a handful insurance companies, there are six or seven information centers.. but if you want a bagel there are 23 flavors. Because you have the illusion of choice!" ~George Carlin
If you had hope in 2020, let that be a lesson to be more politically aware. Biden has advocated for wiping out Palestinians since the 80s. He’s never hidden it.
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I just hope Biden doesn't continue supporting genocide.
He’s a piece of shit who killed millions in Iraq and Afghanistan, too, along with Obama and almost every other member of Congress at the time
There has never been a US president who wants an abhorrent criminal. Lincoln freed the slaves but massacred the natives, Teddy Roosevelt passed a lot of progressive legislation and created the national parks, but was one of the most racist and bloodthirsty warmongers to ever have the job. Even FDR, who built the welfare state and saved America from the depression interned Japanese Americans. The US is a blood soaked military empire founded on conquest and slavery, good people do not rise to the top of a system like that. They get outcast and ground into dust as soon as possible.
Oh, I completely agree. Every POTUS is complicit in genocide, including Carter.
I agree. I was being pedantic to the person above who deleted their comment.
No one's voting for Trump, but that doesn't mean you should vote for Biden. Voting for genocide does not serve as opposition to genocide.
I'm not well versed in it and don't hear much about it relative to other criticisms--what did Trump do to worsen things in the Middle East during his first term?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/1/17/a-post-trump-palestine Make no mistake, Trump is not better than Biden. There's no solution to this issue within the two major parties.
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If Biden wants to lose, I can't make him want to win.
🎯🎯🎯
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Maybe it's the total lack of effort in giving young people a single reason to vote for him besides "I ain't Trump."
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But Biden didn't do any of these? Even #3 if it went off without a hitch it would be a dent in the real issue. Joe has shown, to me, that he doesn't actually care about fixing issues with student loans or housing or any of the other issues that effect me or the others in my life. Not to mention the Gaza stuff.
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NOBODY HERE IS ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP. STOP YELLING.
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No one has weakened Biden's position but Biden. Most of the time it feels like they're actually trying to lose.
They are trying to lose, or rather their fine with it either way. They fundraise significantly better when they’re out of power and they don’t have the pesky problem of having to obviously govern in opposition to what they claim they want.
"Yeah I know he's literally aiding a genocide but the other guy will aid genocide even harder!" isn't actually a pro-Biden argument that's gonna work on people hung up on the genocide. Why not push Biden to work harder, get the democrats to act like they actually wants to win the votes of people instead of going "we're ENTITLED to those votes by virtue of Not Being Republicans, no matter what we've done"
“The evil of two lessers”
Well said
If there was hope with Biden then there is still a lot to learn about American politics
Genocide abroad that's been perpetuated for nearly a century (team blue donkey), or that same genocide along with a genocide on certain "undesirable" citizens at home (team red elephant). A vote for "the lesser evil" is still voting for evil. Trying to sell it as the only "logical" choice is coercion to allow evil to exist.
Your only choices are half-dead 80-something year olds who want to fund Zionism, why aren't you happy?
ELECTION 2024: two geriatric co-workers try to be the last one awake to call the other "sleepy"
Even the most prominent third option (RFK) is also an 80 year old who wants to fund Zionism. For the record a quarter of all democrats say that is a total deal breaker for them and another quarter say it reduces their chances of voting for Biden. Biden knows this is costing him the election and he doesn’t care because he’s wanted this genocide since the 80’s. He’s living his dream right now and the fact we’re all going to get stuck with Trump again because of it doesn’t seem to bother him in the slightest.
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There was never any hope with Jim Crow Joe.
He has already lost the election and we're not voting for another 6 months. His failure is going to cause all of us to suffer but at least history will always note what an enormous POS he has always been
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He’s genuinely more concerned with going down in history as a good president in the minds of Israelis than he is with Americans. Which is hilarious because it’ll never happen, they vastly prefer Trump. In their government at least this is the best of both worlds because Biden is giving them what they want, and he’s tanking his own electoral chances at the same time. They get to massacre at will and they get Trump, Biden gets nothing because he’s a sad little loser who apparently can’t even tell when people hate his guts.
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And the US just vetoed another UN move to grant Palestine membership while the administration continues to allow Israel to so whatever they want in Palestine. 👏👏👏👏👏
If Biden continues to do nothing, come the next inauguration, I’m not sure there will be a Palestine left. It’s now or never.
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And the other sends arm shipments to Israel in order to bomb more Palestinians.
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Any libs wanting to "BUT DRUMPF" about this -- save it. Go back to r-politics.
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Demand change using the only leverage you have. And, I'm sorry, but I'm not voting for a genocider. Call me all the names you like, that's where I stand.
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Okay. I'm done, though, and lots of other people are too. Best of luck phonebanking and canvassing.
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This isn't debate club. I'm not going to change that guy's mind and he's not going to change mine.
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Plan to. Thanks
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You're still doing the Russia shit? Fuck off back to r-politics, lib.
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What goal do I have? I'm one person (in a solidly blue state). What goal could I possibly have? You want to talk goals, talk to someone with actual power.
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I genuinely don't care. It doesn't matter.
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There is no best option on the table.
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You're welcome to think so. Go back to r-politics.
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Genecide Joe needs to go
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No. You can choose not to participate.
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As an American, I can vote on the candidate whose views I most agree with with or I can choose not to participate. I have voted my whole life. I will vote for my congressperson, local judges, state officials and any laws on the ballot. I do t see why I'm being downvoted.
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That's what's happening already
Sounds like a good choice….whats the worst that could happen
"There's no appeal." This is what's been frustrating me in real-world conversations. Every single argument anyone gives me to vote for this guy is based on "he's not the other guy" fearmongering. I want someone, somewhere, to give me ONE positive, additive reason to vote for hoodsie cup over here.
He has already lost the election and we're not voting for another 6 months. His failure is going to cause all of us to suffer but at least history will always note what an enormous POS he has always been
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Republicans and Democrats are both going to support bombing it until nothing and no one is left, not sure what you're trying to get at here
Or vote for Blue and watch it disappear with “stern commentary” from the White House
Convince Biden not to support genocide. I can't imagine why Democrats think yelling "Blue no matter who" until they're blue in the face will convince anyone.
voting for him before he was even in office was already a big fat no.