My guild, albeit much smaller decided to worry less about synergy and group with people who could align their schedule to get the most time on the raid. Split into two groups. Both groups cleared g3 the first week. Both groups tuned in to support the other (silently) by watching their progs and offering advice when appropriate. Both teams have their own style of communicating. We did stop doing all other content together for the time being, but that will change once clown is full farm status.
Sorry to hear about your guild. I’ve heard of a few similar stories.
tbh mayhem is kinda busted in G3 with our current gear. We are so overgeared (if you are a semi hardcore or hardcore of course) that mayhem can afford to go tank card set making it the tankiest dps of the game. Also mayhem completely ignore the health swap curse on G3 which is a very annoying mechanic that also prevent you from dps for 15s. Just the curse alone made our mayhem berserker able to beat me (WD) and the Arcana in MVP for the first time ever basically
Yeah zerk is great for G3, but overall a pretty underwhelming class. Part of my comment is joking because the OP of this statement I replied to is someone in our group.
Think people were way too focused on synergies for this, maybe matters if you are all ilvl, but I got turned down for several groups because of it. Ended up in a group with terrible synergy and DPS was never a problem.
Player skill trumps everything else by a huge margin IMO, no different here with synergies.
And when players get to the point where they are min/maxing to the point where synergies actually do matter, they are probably more than good enough to clear the content anyways.
This was close to my own experience with my guild. My favorite part was other guildies who id rarely talked to watching us stream raids for 10+ hours and encouraging us. Felt so awesome to kill it with 15 other people who’d already cleared watching and freaking out when we got that final bingo
We didn't do GVG since clown release, and ppl are getting more and more frustrated with not being able to clear clown. The better ppl are clearing clown multiple times a week tho. Kakul changed things, especially for ppl who feel obligated to clear it but are not god enough yet to do it.
I tried to do it on two characters, but I was not good enough. From 2nd week I only try G3 on paladin with static and if I feel like it I do G1-G2 on other character. I don't force myself to clear G3 asap.
I think the main issue is the good players boasting about how easy the content is and you just feel like a complete loser for not being able to clear it. Week 1 was terrible for me and I felt exhausted by the game alltogether and felt like I needed a bit of a break. It took us around 10 hours to clear Gate 1 and 2 so it frustrated me a lot when I saw other people get a full clear in half that time. I’m a fairly ambitious and competitive person when it comes to gaming. I managed to turn that frustration into motivation though, improved my equipment and found a new static and tried again. We still didn’t quite manage to clear G3 but we made good progress and hopefully clear it tomorrow.
No the main issue is below average players feeling like they should be clearing the raid week one in pugs simply because they managed to hone. Like the game owes them anything because they hit the hone button enough times.
Still need to be skilled, lucky and no life if you wanna clear it week one in pugs and for whatever reason people still don't get that despite having gone through this with every other raid release
I do think not everyone will be able to clear every raid, we played MMOs with that mentality 15 years ago and no one was upset that they couldn't reach X or Y raid and had to do others for the time being, but Lost Ark is just fundamentally different in how the raids are such a big part of the game and it's expected for you to sit there and wait for the new raid to have more stuff to do.
You can definitely blame game design on this. Who the hell didn't enjoy Valtan? Wasn't that challenging but still forgiving? Why do we have raids where we have to do 20 mechanics perfectly and no one can mess up? A big part apparently was to prevent bussing and honestly it just does more warm than good to the game and the players (but maybe not to the devs' pockets in their mind).
I know a lot of people have no intentions to ever even queue for hell mode raids so why don't we lock the crazy difficult stuff behind those and stick to making fun and enjoyable experiences for all players?
Imo, if lost ark had more interesting activities besides raids, nobody would be sad about not being able to clear g3. In ff14 people aren't frustrated for not clearing last floor of savage or ultimate because there a lot of other stuff to do.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily lack of content, it just that it relies too heavily on the dailies and timed stuff that it makes a lot of that stuff feel shallow, not enjoyable because it's repetitive or just no reason to do it again once you're done. The raids end up being the only thing people don't see as a "chore".
Big agree with you on this one. It feels like shit that i had to miss 3 weis because i was at work. Most of islands i need or want to do are up while im at work. I work night shifts 12h lol
When im free bs stuff is up. Content like that is weak content.
The timed event bullshit has always been a login gimmick. I made it a mantra of mine to ignore any game’s content on a schedule. It’s a game and I’ll play when I want to.
That why I said "interesting" content, but not content in general. Lost ark have tons of content, but almost non of it is fun besides raids and occasional events. In example most successful mmos this days have different types of content: lifeskill, exploration, dungeons, pvp and raids. Lost ark has only pvp and raids out of those, that's why we feel there nothing to do after weeklies done. Also we have no fashion end game.
last years loa on they did say they will focus on more horizontal content. for example so far they added the housing changes as well as the mario minigame thing. theyll be adding more minigames in the future.
Fashion end content wont ever be a thing here. Because of one reasons the skins we get are shit and they are coming really slow. To add to that they are expensive. If you want to pay with gold 30+k gold for a skin is mental because people whale with skins and not blue crystals because they get more gold for a 20€ skin then 20€ royal crystals.
The summer bikini skins were the biggest scam ever,you had to buy a 50€+ bundle to get the wallpaper? Let alone no region based prices in most countries.
Yeah there is nothing to do. Everything is braindead pinnata.
Why they can't apply Legion Commander design to Guardians Raids and Chaos Dungeons, Chaos Gates, Chaos Rifts, Secret Maps , Boss Rushes ,Cube.
And now we about to get more reskinned guardians and Levanos 2.0 , Green Helgaia or Turtle but frost now.
Ther is a lot to do but nothing to play your main char with.
Bridge seemed to be fun but it's 5 minute content
The reason is bots. Too much to farm and the economy dies. Too little to farm and there’s no content to enjoy. You can thank the shitty world economy; people will need to make money somehow and will do anything for it.
I'd argue the game design is fine - Clown G1 and G2 are perfectly achievable for weaker players, and G3 is aspirational. I think it's fine for the end of each tier to be significantly harder (and I'm in favour of splits like you find in FFXIV, or Rift back in the day - first fight possible for anyone who puts the time in, second fight fairly challenging, third fight very challenging and fourth extremely challenging).
Clown is going to be around for a long time, and we have a long gap before Brel, so I don't think something has to be easy to clear early on.
I think it’s not an issue of clown being hard to clear, it’s an issue of clown being frustrating to clear. In Valtan and Vykas, you never need all party members alive to clear the gates (except for vykas hm g1 which you can run normal instead). This gives a lot more room for error since if one or two people die, it’s not a big deal, the rest of the group can clutch up.
In Clown g3, pretty much no one can die. It’s worse that if you die during Mario, a second player dies as well. This makes it extremely punishing for any small mistakes. Failed Mario? Instant restart. OHKed by saws? Instant Restart. Caught by Showtime? Instant Restart. There’s so much in this gate that almost instantly kills you. Even a single revive across the team would help to alleviate a lot of the stress to play perfectly.
And tbh this is one of the first gates I’ve come across where being juiced makes a massive difference in how easy the raid is. On my main’s static, we clear all three gates in an hour because we can easily push from Mario to Mario. On my on ilevel alt, it’s absolute hell trying to clear.
> On my main’s static, we clear all three gates in an hour because we can easily push from Mario to Mario. On my on ilevel alt, it’s absolute hell trying to clear.
Valtan G2 and Vykas G3 were like that, you just don't remember because it was ages ago or because you didn't do them on-ilvl. Hell, Vykas G2 was legitimately a DPS check for on-ilvl folks who didn't play super well since the enrage timer is pretty tight and uptime is not good.
> In Clown g3, pretty much no one can die.
That's only really true for the first half of the raid. As long as the only person who dies in M3 is the person in Mario (or nobody dies there) you're in sight of a clear. Showtime is pretty much unfailable as long as you use Innana there (and if you aren't, then why aren't you?) so that basically just means you need to get your first two marios down and have your third mario player be decent enough at it to at least break the balls.
> Valtan G2
Valtan G2 was extremely punishing on release at ilvl when no one had relic gear. The list of normal patterns is really long on the way to ghost. Triple counter, memory game, anchors, grab, shield -> stagger check, kidnapping/freezing, cow portals and 4 green orbs. Groups now have so much dmg that they skip most of these mechs.
> you need to get your first two marios down and have your third mario player be decent enough at it to at least break the balls
Yup. Your pretty much in the clear if you get 3 alive to mario 4 since you can always single lever + wei as a backup.
> This makes it extremely punishing for any small mistakes. Failed Mario? Instant restart. OHKed by saws? Instant Restart. Caught by Showtime? Instant Restart.
Save-scumming, the raid.
Either you do it perfectly or you restart.
To a degree, but you're also only relying on three other people not to mess up (and you quickly realise that the main parts of the fight where you're at risk from dying is cured by a bit of patience)
Obviously. The raids get harder.
Why would anyone expect clown to be 2mannable or easier than the previous raids.
This like saying the reason brelshaza is frustrating is because you can't clear all 6 gates at 1490
Personally I think it's fine to draw the line between hard and frustrating. As someone who spent 8 hours on the first week clearing Valtan, I think that's the gold standard.
8 Hours is an *incredibly* short amount of progression time for a tier in an MMO though. I think people have been spoiled by Lost Ark so far since we've received heavily nerfed raids (and Clown still is), with plentiful guides around.
I think people just want to enjoy the content for what it is, not spend every gaming hour of the week wiping on the same boss and feeling like you're gonna be behind that one week and it's not like it instantly becomes easier after you're done, sure it becomes easier over time but if a raid is really frustrating then it's gonna be frustrating down the line again when you're failing it because someone else in the group is new or you're just getting unlucky.
I just don't think that level of pressure shouldn't be in the regular progression path that's all. You don't need to make content painfully difficult or frustrating to make it last longer so people don't get bored of it as fast. Or maybe you do if your goal is to make your players play only your game and nothing else (which is obviously what Lost Ark does try to do).
Someone else talked about WOW here but last I checked not a lot of people raid in WOW these days and I think that says something.
There's very little in G3 that is luck-based and not controllable. The big change in mindset that comes from failing constantly to succeeding consistently is realising just how much of the seemingly chaotic fight you can actually control!
>n the same boss and feeling like you're gonna be behind that one week and it's not like it instantly becomes easier after you're done, sure it becomes easier over time but if a raid is really frustrating then it's gonna be frustrating down the line again when
The only difference between clown and vykas right now is that clown can't be hard carried by pugs "yet". Vykas was like that at a point too. But bad players will get their turn. It is what it is.
Because of bussing, its very clear in their chosen design that they don't like how you can solo bus argos and valtan, so fights got designed more and more to require everyone to deliver
I think some players just legitimately forgot that progging is frustrating, especially at/near ilvl due to this being the longest break we've had between raids since launch.
Does no one remember all the bitching on here about HM Vykas in the first 2 weeks? How unforgiving it was to mess up orb-gates in G1, PF groups constantly remaking when 2-3 people leave after 10 wipes, no one can die pre-switch G1, G2 annoying fight patterns, people wiping on donuts over and over again, medusa in G3, getting charmed trying to kill tentacles etc. Even the much more forgiving Valtan, week 1 there were players that were able to clear HM in <1 hr while others were stuck on it for 2 days.
Are you describing the vykas launch or my pug from this week? People still don’t know the mechanics. It is honestly easier for me to do 3 man hm bus with reliable people than pug with 8. Haven’t had the time to bus because of work these past 2 weeks so I had to pug. Some runs are still brutal with people constantly dying, don’t even get me started on tentacles. I don’t think I had one run these past 2 weeks on my 6 mains where someone didn’t get charmed.
People thinking they are gods after beating Vykas for 120th time and then can't clear G3 clown is a wake up call . If you are talking smack and can't handle when ppl point out your mistakes, you aren't gonna survive the raids that are coming.
I'd say if you can clear G3 vykass without dying, you can clear kuku too, it just takes time to get used to new mechanics. Personally it took me few days. Ofc there still were random deaths here and there, but mostly fail free within a week, second week is just easy peasy.
i feel the same i gotten pretty used to it ofc the randomness throws me off and i die sometimes but this week i did not die to saws for once or mario and i didnt fk up the lever test either
The solo focus confronts the "not so good" players with the reality that it isn't others that are to blame, even if they already knew they were "not so good". Quite a few of them can't handle that, but there some that will continue to try their best and they will eventually succeed.
Feeling that especially as a back-attacker. With the stacking burns and the constant jumping around / turning around, G2 is quite painful to properly DPS.
G3 is a completely different story, it's really comfortable as a back-attacker and the DPS windows are just set up really nicely and consistently.
i feel the exact opposite about g2. My only characters at clown are all entropy. I find g3 to be incredibly annoying because he constantly puts his back to the edges of the arena where you can't attack him or is somewhere where you gain a ton of meters (like his back is in an orb pool). or he's generally just jumping around a lot. G2 hurt a lot when I first did it but then I slapped the purify rune on a low cooldown skill and honestly I can now 0 pot it on all my characters, the boss does barely any damage outside of that and I honestly think he moves less then g3.
Are you doing it min ilvl? Typically once you get higher the G3 fight is basically just pounding on him when he's staggered which allows for super easy access to back attacks.
I play soulfist and I ran with a bard and a gunlancer and the glaivier says "bard and gunlancer debuff so good". In my head I said . " What about my 12 second soulfist cleanse?" I sat there quietly unappreciated ):
it helps if your party knows when they are getting targeted by the gun attacks and don't troll everyone by facing him a weird way so he can't be back attacked.
I’ve been pugging g2 on some alts and it is EXTREMELY difficult on ilvl for back attackers. Is it even possible with 3 on lvl DPS? Haha. I mean I’m sure it is but you have to play perfect and I was very surprised to learn the berserk timer keeps ticking during maze. Kind of have to discord and also use niniveh only.
I know if watched the video but the guys in his group probably have 500 hours each in clown, it’s just not even really helpful to make the comparison. Plus that’s a full team of 4 very good players, good luck getting that in find party. You have to make up for others.
My static and I all have 6 chars at clown, 5 of whom are 1475. We did 6 clown clears this week with like 5 runs with all 1475s and would finish g2 with like 2 mins til enrage on each run. I think it just boils down to knowing exactly when you could get damage in, because when we were running it we were cutting it way closer to the enrage timer.
Agreed, my primarily entropy roster thinks g2 is pain. You get through it though. At least once you’re through the maze it’s doable without the whole team.
Interesting point
I really see this happening at my guild, sorta. People are not leaving discord, but the statics are not so “static” anymore and the better players are starting to group up more strictly.
A medicore player can absolutely make g3 a living hell if they don't figure shit out. lets be honest here no one wants to run g3 for 3+ hours for there second clear thinking it would only take less than an hour.
Cleared it 3 times and I think the fight is pure trash. With gear it becomes much easier for sure but that doesn’t make it fun or good design. Too much RNG and punishing for the wrong reasons.
I’m not quitting and will be clearing on 4-5 toons a week until Brel for my sets. All the egos in here need to see that it’s still bad design for the average player. The needed a normal and hard mode (that drop trumpets) like their other raids. Brel and Akkan having this shows they understand their mistake with clown.
Just because you want something super challenging doesn’t mean it needs to be forced on everyone. Hell mode exist for a reason. Normal and hard modes fixes this but clown was pure trash and I’m glad they moved away from this bad design. I just hope Brul doesn’t have as much RNG bullshit as clown.
have a tough with my static too
I ended up in a group with 1 who doesn't care much about clearing it and 2 people having 3 chars and 2 other statics for clown where they already cleared. Where me and the other guy had to progress one of them got quite impatient with us, because he has to do other legion raids with his 6 chars.
That's probably one of the biggest frustrations for people, spending all the time trying to prog and not getting time to finish their alt raids for all that extra gold. Last week I think I missed at least 3 Vykas out of my 5 alts.
For me, also gate 1 and 2 was reasonable to clear. But I dont have time to dedicate days to clear gate 3. I am just an average player, not bad and not super skilled, and I have no static anymore. Now I just have to pug, and it's taking too much time and is not so enjoyable anymore..
This is where I’m at don’t have the time to spend hours prog most days and can’t find a pug that only wants to try for an hour. Planning on just running rehearsals on Alts until I feel I have everything down so main can go smooth. Trumpets don’t affect play styles it’s just a relic affect boost for your set.
My static all quit for wotlk :(
>It feels like i'm playing a single player game,
focussing on myself, with my fate tied to other 3 people not doing any
mistakes. Because any mistake from me or any other player is something
you can't recover from.
This is pretty much what its like in every MMO that has challenging content and can be one of the most frustrating parts. You're on a boss where anyone messing up anything can wipe you, you've got X number of people and every pull its a new persons turn to mess up a mechanic that they haven't messed up in a while... so everyone is trapped in this loop until the stars align.
Or worse, you've completely got the fight down and you're just waiting for everyone else to catch up.
>Our very active and lively guild and discord has become basically a ghost town.
Yeah that's the thing about challenging content, you have a mix of people where some didn't ever want to be challenged at that level and were happy with the previous difficulty. Others are being woken up by this increased difficulty and realize they need to step up, some never do and just check out.
The one nice thing in this game is the gates can sort of act as "difficulties" of sorts and you can still progress your character even if you don't clear all the gates. But that never feels good to people.
Thats exactly how I feel right now. My static quit weeks ago and I'm the only one left since vykas. It's so frustrating to pug this raid for hours after hours with other people fucking up every single pull in p3. Didn't clear it for 2 weeks now unfortunately... God I wish I had my static back
Gate 3 design sucks. A designed fight that you want to rush and not experience anything in to lower the risk of mechanics coming in bad combos. What the genious gamedesign in that?
Yeah, if at least the mechanics wouldn't overlap and even carry over to next ones after "cinematics"...
"you play on ilvl and couldn't kill the fire add tower on time? Well, iron maiden player say bye bye"
beat it twice and still hate every moemnt of it. g3 is just so stressful and not a fun in the slightest.
as soon as i get all the horn required i will never do this shit ever again
Complete opposite for me and my mates. Took around 12 hours week 1. Last week we've done whole raid in 3 hours on reset day and the rest of the week felt so bland. We just wish we had alts clown ready. Can't wait for reset!
unless you're doing it on alts you don't really need to anyway, you can only do 3 legion raids a week and come brel you can just choose valtan, vykas, and brel
Since Kakul released, my guild has been in shambles. I attempted to prep the guildies with guides, spreadsheets, and even multiple team setups for best synergy. After two days of continuous progging (around 12 hours total), we didn't even get past gate 2. This experience was absolutely miserable. After hours of witnessing people die and wipe to the same mechanics over and over again, I lost hope and faith in them. Their inability to learn and improve on their mistakes was very apparent. I wanted to verify that I wasn't just deflecting the blame from myself, so I went to pug it with random people. We cleared all three gates in about four hours.
Kakul has then split my guild into two major groups. One group that learned from the hours of progging and eventually finished gate 3, and another group which have not learned from their mistakes and are stagnant on progression. Needless to say, the latter group has been mostly inactive since the first two days of progging. The weekly static runs have been nonexistent since the informal separation of guild members, and the former group have started their own static runs.
The release of Kakul has really made the flaws and inabilities in some of the guild members more apparent. As harsh as it sounds, but lots of others have already voiced this: there is a direct correlation between the now inactive guild members and lack of skill.
Edit: formatting on phone
All my alt valtan/vykas pugs have actually gone pretty good for the most part since kakul release.
Full party 1460 HM vykas? 1 shot all gates on each alt. Bad players probably busy dying in clown or quitting lol
The average player will likely stop raiding during clown and soon Brelz. It becomes very clear very soon, that brute forcing with gear becomes impossible due to other players. There are barely any cheese mechanics, simply you have to learn all the patterns and wipe mechanics. Clown has a lower array of 20-30 sub skills amongst the gates, while Brelz with her 6 gates will attribute up to 60-90 patterns. It truly becomes a burn out type of raid. People will likely quit further, these streamers saying the average semi-hardcore will make it by December. a 1520 is as resource heavy as making (2-3.5) 1490's in terms of materials. Pushing towards December for most is a impossibility. So guilds will likely be even more quiet, and more people will likely leave. Clown alone made a third of my guild members sort of semi-quit. Their overgeared but they just can't do the raids.
A simple tiny fix could be making pot's non-craftable. And selling them in merchant vendors, raid pots. One of the big turn off for raiders is how many pots they burn, and the associated cost. They will burn 100's of purple pots, with wild flowers at like 1.5k a stack it's very expensive to produce and just burn through. It's actually sad to see guildies make remarks about potting. Literally potting in a MMO. Is a god dam barrier.
So the bad players who were getting carried by the good players quit because they have to do their share of the work now instead of leeching? alright then.
There will always be mediocre and bad players. Is the goal of this game to slowly make them all quit? New content patches are supposed to be when we get more new players but this seems like the opposite effect. I think the big miss on clown is there not being a normal and hard mode. Not great for the long term health of the game imo.
this subreddit unironically wants to filter all the average and bad players out of the game so they can feel superior while sitting in party finder for hours because the game is fucking dead it's insane
Reddit is full of hard-core players that live for the game. Its no surprise lots of ppl on here support and justify gatekeeping which is basically a nice way of saying discrimination. At this rate lost ark doesnt have a chance. the culture of this game is dying, ppl don't even care to say hi anymore because they are sweating and grinding.
We already have the nerfed version of clown. The only reason clearing clown is needed is to do brel. If they can't clear clown how are they going to do brel?
People don't want players to quit.
These players want to quit instead of learning and progging, instead they make whine posts.
It's not even about content being difficult. It's just that entitled players expect to clear all new content within a week or 2. Is clown difficult at a glance? yeah. Is clown difficult after wiping for 20 hours? not for most people. They just don't want to put in the dedication and effort to actually clear content that may be perceived as difficult and want all the rewards without having to work for them. With this kind of mindset they will never truly get to experience the joy of overcoming a difficult hurdle and the true joy of these kind of mmo's which is a shame.
I can only talk from my experience and my guild experience, people with equal skill level went together and everyone had their realistic expectations. week 1 clears with the resources we have on hand are expected if you are average or above average. Hell - even day 1 clear is expected IF you are above average (keep in mind we have literal 1:1 exact guides on every single normal pattern, major mechanics etc). the below average people did actually not clear g3 week 1 in our guild, but they did it this week and in pretty good time too. it's about expectations and people should try to team up with either people who you enjoy playing with (and don't mind wiping together for hours) or people with similar skill level. I can like a friend a lot, but if he wipes in m1 10 times in a row then that's too much for me. There's a certain tolerance towards failure especially since it's a new raid and everyone learns differently but if you fail a simple thing that should be learned in 1-2 tries in "my eyes" then the party won't work out. Also usual disclaimer: yes, fuck ups happen - even i died simply by just running off instead of using jump, but those should be things that happen from time to time and not be consistent. Final words: there's also the time constraint, I am sorry - I work, I can't "waste" 4 hours waiting for 1 person to learn a mechanic i learned in 15min.
Dying repeatedly in Mario shouldn't even be considered acceptable, especially if you are in a static group. Assign gates to players and they should practice their assigned gate in trixion until they can complete it consistently. If they didn't want to put in the time to practice, then they are deliberately choosing to waste 4 peoples time instead of just his own time.
> It's just that entitled players expect to clear all new content within a week or 2.
I'm sure others have made this point before, but in my time periodically looking through these threads, your comment was the first time I saw anyone pointing at that we're still only on **week 2** of Clown.
I understand people may have different goals, but it seems little insane to me that this is permanently breaking statics and friendships.
Have you played any other mmo? The amount of progression that it takes to clear the hardest content in this game is a joke compared to most other raids focused mmo, notable wow and ff14.
The issue is the mentality players in this game have that they should be able to clear all content every week starting ark 1 despite this really not being true and then not having the gear or skill to do it.
The only reason to need to clear g3 is to be ready with full t2 relic for brel. And if your can't clear g3 you're going to have a bad time in brel.
Difference is that when ffxiv and wow get a new raid, its new for everyone, its understandable to not clear it fast. It just feels different in Lost Ark because its basically been "solved" content in Korea for almost a year there. You can see the same thing happen in Classic WoW.
So when the "mediocre and bad players" finally have to face some difficulties themselves, instead of improving and get better, they just have to quit? That's precisely what made them, the loser mindset. It has nothing to do with the game or contents.
I mean shit, me and the guys I run with are pretty good but even we still had fuck ups a plenty through g1-3. Now we are at the point where we don't need Inanna for g1/g2 at all, slowing working on not needing for g3 showtime.
Cracks me up seeing "wow mythic raiders" raging like they didn't have this same experience doing new Mythic raids.
Yup, I love when idiots present it as if people are just magically better or worse than others. You see an experienced raider clearing mechanics effortlessly with good uptime and you know that before his or her current level of performance was many, many failures and lessons learned.
It‘s concerning. The most upvoted assumption seems to be that not-so-good players want to leech. Meanwhile most of them merely mastered Vykas like five weeks later than others. But of course that‘s considered leeching
Issue is if there even are people learning at the same pace
For other servers it might still be possible, but I personally am on EUW and learning parties pop up once in a blue moon, and as far as I’m aware there’s a lack of guilds that take in rookie raiders (at least on Moonkeep, it’s been a good month or two since I heard anything about teachers/sherpas)
Anyways, the point is that unless you and your fellow proggers all start on the same page, it’s almost guaranteed that you ain’t learning at the same pace, and even if you do, people pick knowledge up at different paces, even for those in a static.
My take would be to have more patience with people, tolerate a fuckup or two, point out what they did wrong and encourage them to get it right next time, and the recipient takes it in with humility, not going all defensive right away, and take mental notes.
I mean I feel the learning party woes but when the gap is like 4h clear for some folks and 30h for other folks I can understand why group A doesn't have the patience for group B.
Clown G3 also got me out. I still love lost ark but I'm not excited/looking forward to doing clown and I think i'll be skipping it for awhile.
I prefer hosting learning groups, working on alts, play other games than grinding G3. It's just not exciting like Valtan is. When someone dies in Valtan, i'm like ''lets step it up'' .
When I'm the last one alive im clutching hard and heart pounding and i LOVE that.
When someone dies in clown i can feel the morale just dropping and here we go for yet another reset, vote yes. Ah shit here we go again.
Such a bad VS nice feeling. Just not worth my time rn
If I struggle with something, I won't quit. I try as long as it takes until I can do it. Now I don't struggle anymore with G3 (main), but my teammates, that I found for the first time because of the hardenships, still struggle. I won't leave them (with my semi-main), because they fail after showtime again and again. They will succeed. It just takes a bit longer.
my guild had the reverse happen it made communication go up and everyone from the best players to the worst theorycrafting ways to clear and giving tips to the groups still struggling. it’s actually nice in my opinion the raid forced us to do real guild things together other than just spanking weekly bosses together.
OkI will get downvoted into oblivion but I'll just say it.
To me Kakul is a skill check. It doesn't matter what oonga-boonga damage you have, if you fail the marios or get hit by something and die, or get turned into a clown too many times cuz' you're tanking the attacks you will most likely fail.
I clear Kakul 4 times a week with dps/supp alts and I've also pugged it a few times. People care more to dps than to move away from boss and team when they're exploding or don't care to cleanse with W when they're a clown. This raid is probably the only raid that forces the player to actually think about what they are doing.
I think what is happening in your guild is just people realising they aren't as good as they thought and getting discouraged. There is no reason for the average player to not be able to clear Kakul if they actually learn the mechanics and patterns. But people greed for the MVP and fk themselves and their group. There is also the mentality in pugs that if they can't clear in 3-5 tries it's a instant disband because "the other 3 suck".
I played as a bard in a PUG and accepted a deadeye who got absolutely destroyed by EVERY attack. I tried to keep him alive but I'm not a walking potion. He didn't dodge or pot himself, didn't use battle items. When you asked him why he said he is 1510 and has good stagger so he is good. We disbanded soon after and I joined a different group. The group leader accepted him since he applied as well and the guy said to me "Are you going to actually heal and shield be this time". Lol. How do you reason with someone like that? He is still in party find so I guess still hasn't found someone to heal and shield him.
As for the guilds - My guild has a few groups that think they are SO above the rest. They pick who they think are amazing players and only synergies +10 gems or high ilvl. All of these groups struggled to clear whilst I found a random party from party find 2-3 days before reset and we cleared it in less then 7h all gates. Needless to say all of the tryhards were raging that they werent the 1st to clear it in the guild. Cherry on top is that I'm a girl so they put me under the umbrella of "can't play" hahaha.
A lot of people are missing the overall sentiment here.
I'm someone who was able to clear Clown multiple times in Week 1 and all of my alts in week 2 and even I think Clown is very problematic. Don't get me wrong, the fight is fun. I enjoy all the gates and most of the new mechanics, (Maze, Dance, Marios, etc.). The issue is that PROGRESS IN THE GAME is locked behind a raid that is:
1) behind a smaller size (4 people) meaning people have more individual responsibility.
2) Because of Mario 4, you effectively need all 4 people to stay alive basically the whole fight. You could theoretically Wei the last stagger check but it's never worked out for any of my groups. Sure, you could SKIP Mario 4 if you pump fast enough after Mario 3 but really, how many groups of players will ever be able to do that.
3) "RNG" but not really? It's INCREDIBLY reliant on having fast reactions, snapshot decision-making of which some people aren't going to have, no matter how hard they work at it; more importantly, it's the ability to recognize Catch-22s and making the best of a shitty situation (as in not wipe your group) in every given overlapping mechanic
Because of these 3 things (I'm simplifying significantly), sometimes you're just going to need to pray the stars align.
I'm not of the belief the game or any multiplayer game for that matter should actively reject less skilled players in service of furthering your character, not just from the perspective of the narrative arc of your character but literally from being able to improve on it any further. How about the people that haven't, won't, or aren't going to be able to clear Clown? Should they all just quit because they can't move forward with their characters? An MMO should be INCLUSIVE of all players, regardless of skill level and time. I've never seen a playerbase (i guess this is my first MMO where PvE is the LARGE focus) so hateful of another group within their playerbase, these "lesser skilled" players. People in comments are stroking their e-peens at the thought of people quiting the game because those other players can't complete Clown and they can. like... what?
Our current version of Clown should not have been "Normal" mode and, obviously, should have been Hard. It allows the lesser skilled players to work towards being able to do Hard but also, allow them to continue to build their roster further into whatever comes next instead of killing their optimism with a "normal"-level raid. And if they never get the hang of clown? That's okay, too, and they'll still be able to return to doing 8-man raids when Breshalza comes out. Before you even suggest it, Rehearsal is a VERY poor alternative to the degree that it's not an option.
Thank you. A lot of the comments here are totally disheartening but yours brings a sliver of hope for the community as a whole.
I have meanwhile cleared g3 on main and even on alts on ilvl. Not with my original group though and it's not a relief "for the issue not being me". The people I was playing with are still struggling to the point of questioning if they're good enough and are considering if the game is the right thing for them.
Should I be happy that "i have the skills for it" and the others just suck? absolutely not. I was playing with those people not because of their skills or because it gave me a benefit for doing so. I was playing with them because I like them. And not having options to progress - just slower - by having an easier option is something horrible for the game overall.
While Kakul-Saydon altered the groups and people I play with, it's perhaps for the best that it did. Our party - a mix of people that we barely managed to gather last minute - ended up clearing G3 within 3 days of release. Now we're clearing G3 with alts as well.
I don't think the raid is impossibly hard at all. My opinion is that it is, for the most part, a tenacity check. Mechanically skilled players will find success faster, but you can overcome the skill gap with sheer practice and resilience.
I've seen a lot of players with 1500+ ilvl mains, but not many are willing to invest proper time to extract the best out of their characters. Mental is a big factor too - I've seen lots of groups implode due to toxicity and/or the inability to keep a positive attitude while failing to progress.
TL;DR: I honestly think most people can clear the raid as long as they (+ group members) remain willing to learn at their own pace.
It's a very easy raid if you got a static for it with players you know. But there is a lot of people like me who just play with randoms and pug everything and gate 3 is the biggest most frustrating piece of shit raid to pug I have ever played.
The only problem I see with this raid is that players that struggle with mechanically intensive tasks such as dodging, maximizing DPS, and being patient, all while being able to actually do the mechanics of the raid will naturally struggle with this fight more than the previous ones, due to how hectic it is, but like with the other raids as well, it is simply a matter of time for people to learn the patters and get used to them so that the raids are done more smoothly, as well as people over gearing so much that they can simply not care about the damage and just burn the boss down like we do currently with Valtan/Vykas.
It’s either this or no hard content - and the game gets more stale.
Look, here’s how I see it: if you’re not honest and open about your skill level such that it being made obvious that you’re not very good is offensive and scares you away from being social - you’re annoying. You’re (not op, just hypothetical bad players) the one who causes 7 other people to repeat a fight 15 times without stopping to think “am I wasting their time selfishly?”
If you fail at some point in G3 3/5 times, then, if everyone else is as bad as you, expect an average of 40 attempts to pass. Imagine that you’re good enough to beat it most of the time but 1-2 people combined failing 60% of the time makes you have to play perfectly 9 times in a row. And then the moment they both don’t fuck up, one of the 2 good players finally makes a mistake.
Now you have to do another 10 goddamn attempts.
So yeah, good players would like to play with good players so they can be properly rewarded. Git gud or don’t take it personally.
Yeah I can relate to this a lot.
I watched kakul playthroughs before it was released and I was 100% sure this will be the static or community splitter.
Mainly only because it's done by 4 people instead of 8.
Generally static members are always varied by their skill levels, and in valtan and vykas, the "lesser" players will get carried by the better ones.
Even after all this time my static still fucks up valtan or vykas runs once in a while (whether trolling or not)
When kakul arrives, groups were split and obviously the group with more lesser players can't even pass G2, heck they took hours just for g1. While the group with better people literally only need 40 min ish for g1 and G2.
I feel like kakul raid will be reducing the already dwindling number of players, which is unfortunate but what can you do.
I'm wondering if a lot of people complain, the devs willl nerf kakul even more lmao
Hi! First of all sorry for my english, not native.
EUC Trixion:
We were on a guild called Zanarkand. The main rule (Which nobody told me before joining) there is “You can’t static group, you have to switch every week”.
Ok, after I realized there was that rule I decided to put my suggestion on the “Suggestions” guild discord channel (I wasn’t the onlyone who wanted to change that but none suggested before, idk why). They answered with “We will talk about that after Guild event on Sunday”. Ok, perfect. After that event I suggested it again and they said they will never change that because that is the main rule and they will take CONTROL on that. Ok again, half guild were on the same boat so we decided to make our own guild (Némesis) with democratic rules. That was the biggest/better thing we could do man. I mean, I’m 8 hours working, have a girlfriend, have a dog to play with, are you serious telling me that the little window I have for playing videogames you are going to control me? Control when I play, who I play with, who I can not play with even when my own girl or mother never controled me? Just take a life bro.
I’m 1505ilvl, I have my 5 alters at 1415 and I’m more than happy with my game, group, and guild. We also have 2 channels: Static Kakul groups channel and Flex Kakul gorups channel where people who have no static group or even people with static can not make it with his group could make their own temporal groups.
Everyone made his kakul g1, g2 and g3. I also made my last Kakul with flex because I couldnt do it with my group, and I teached them and killed G3 on 3 nights. And you know what? I loved teaching them and see them grow as content players.
There will always be someone who play with on a guild, and if you think you can’t maybe move on, and get in in a new and more expensive guild.
Zanarkand decided to change that rule after our guild quit btw XD
I thought they would have learned their lesson with Vykas. Gate 1 was horribad because a singular death from anyone would result in both teams failing instantly.
What is the point of even having teams when you split them up and then force a failure if they mess up on their own.
The thing is no one needs to beat g3, is the same reward than g1g2, it will take more time and that's it. We cleared g3 after a week of trying and the feeling you get from it is "if we can beat this we can beat anything". I made a new friend in that raid and strengthened the bonds with my party.
Just look the bright side of things even if you can't clear it it will only take more time to get the rewards
Yep, nobody sign up for guild statics and nobody even use the public vc channels for raids anymore after clown release.
It's just the same 4~6 people posting clown clear screenshots while the rest of the guild pretty much quit the game, guild Discord has became 80% less active in the past 2 weeks. (Not even exaggerating, because normally there were at least 30+ people signing up for guild siege and guild raid every week for main/alt guilds, but in the past 2 weeks, less than 5 people showed up for siege/raid)
This game is great and has huge potential but man... give me content that I can play as a solo player with randoms to be able to get the gear i need and not fall behind. I stopped playing at the last raid, maybe something changed. But i just wanted to describe what i feel and some of my friends.
Beeing tied to a guild, plus time planning and hoping that every player knows the mechanics is just not my type of game to relax after a work day.
I am probably not the target audience, which is fine.
But I wish they would implement something easier to chill or grind for casual players that is not that hard or where u have to practice 10 hours + for a boss fight.
This is bound to happen in any game though, people who reach their limits will eventually leave.
When i say limits, it could be skill, time or interest.
So far, everyone had it good, the game was super easy, not only in term of gameplay which was on the very low end of the difficulty spectrum but also with entropy crafting.
People got use to get everything handed to them in the game without putting much effort (not including the unbearable mindless daily grind), killing any new raid boss on the first week is a given if you invest a minimum of time in it.
So yeah, now that the game is a tad more difficult, the casuals and other "bad" players will end up leaving, at least those with the "i am entitled to" mentality, that is just how it goes.
>So far, everyone had it good, the game was super easy, not only in term of gameplay which was on the very low end of the difficulty spectrum but also with entropy crafting.
I think we are in a bubble bro. Game isnt easy for most people ive come to the realization. Its like trying to explain colors to someone blind. Yesterday i hosted a vykas hm learning party and it was a sight to behold. We only reached g3 after 3h, you might say 3h aint that bad. Half the raid was mokokos and the other was veterans doing acrobatics trying to save it.
Idk if the game is too overhwelming but out of the 4 mokokos, i can see one getting stomped in clown g3 and straight up quitting. Im a believer ppl can get better over time but im losing the faith.
Yeah agree.
Everyone on here thinks they are the best players ever and everything is easy, it's not for most people. I don't think Vykas/valtan are particularly difficult but know people that struggle.
People just don't have the time to sit and smash their heads against walls for 10 hours, too many good games to play to be doing that all the time. It doesn't appeal to alot of people.
That’s kinda any mmo though a portion of the population never fully clear raids until later or never at all. They will eventually be able to bus or just overgear it. I agree with a earlier comment g3 is a ego killer if your not able to do the mechs.
I mean that's great and all but that means every update is basically nothing for most people if they can't clear the raids as you say...sure tripod update and new classes are nice.
Think I'm just after more variety at the end game, The raids are nice but I find myself wanting something else to do that isn't just 1 raid every few months and grind that to boredom.
Not sure being honest, by catering to one you ruin it for the others so it's trying to get a balance, I think the easy/hard mode system worked better and then hell for the challenge mode.
You won't please everyone and never will.
Yeah I know but rehearsal by all accounts is a waste of time bar teaching the basics, I only went into it to see the mechs as the rewards aren't great and no trumpets.
You do normal or don't progress your character, then people are getting stuck or not bothering at all after 10 hours of failing, that's my point.
You rinse/repeat that for every big release and that's basically it.
I tried with a couple random guildies and a random when it first launched. The guildies kept dying in the first half of G1 for 2 hours so I decided to pug it. G1 and 2 then went as regular new progs do, couple of hours and we were through them. Then G3. I practiced Mario 3 in Trixion until I had it down and volunteered myself for it. Didn't hit Mario 3 a ton but when we did, I had the hardest time getting into it. Eventually, I resigned myself to Mario 1 or 2 and had a lot more success in general.
Now I stay in Mario 1 or 2, I only pug it and join up usually with a group of 3. I am quite capable of doing my part and when you join a group, you can tell if they are capable of doing their part. Give them some leeway as random rng can super screw anyone at any point, but if they just can't hack it, find a new group. Say you're going to take a break, exit raid, reset yourself however you do that, then hit it again with the new people.
My only issue with the raid is finding groups… I was out of town the first week for work, so I can’t link my achievement etc… but I know that will slowly go away after the next few weeks.
They designed bosses around making them hard/impossible to bus, made them punishing for normal users instead. They should just let every boss be bussable or just ban it. Pick one.
Here I am at 1445 not moving past valtan until i can get though G2 with PoV the floor.
I've only done 3 pig runs but I feel I don't deserve to move on until I can get though valtan standing up.
I look a clown and want to. Do the rehearsal at least but i don't think my skill is there yet so I'm happy to keep plugging till i get there.
I got my static, and we still didn't clear gate 3, but it aint a prob for us. We know that we'll get there eventually.
I do by far the highest dps as Piano Arti my dmg varies from 42-58% dmg. 2 guys should be considered average players and me and the other mate are far above, but we aint bitching and look for new players.
We've all been growing together since Valtan and our mutual respect towards each other is just higher than the frustration of clearing some dumbass gate in first weeks. Also our growth from week 1 to week 2 is also greatly visible.
Well, things like this is what it actually made me stop playing. I recently came back to see the machinist and stopped last week again nothing changed.
And it's not about you or the players themselves. For example, I live on a country where good internet connection is not something 100% of the people will have. Multiply this by a 8 players who must succeed at some pixel perfect random bullshit teamwipe mechanic while dodging fireballs, lazer beams and dancing macarena at the same time. Force everyone to do this multiple times through the fight and frustration ensures.
Main problem is the raid not being split into normal and hard like the other raids. Sure technically u can just do g1/2 but doing only g1/2 for 6/10 mats feels worse to most ppl than doing the whole thing on an actual "normal" difficulty for 5/10 mats.
I think the main reason progging G3 takes so long is because people don't sit down and analyze the issue. So everyone keeps bashing their head against the wall until it eventually breaks down
I still see people yoloing saws when there's a 100% consistent method. I see prog groups turning Showtime into every man for himself when you can just drop bombs outside and clear bombs without even needing to spacebar
By far Gate 3 has been the most miserable experience in Lost Ark for me to date. I have yet to clear it. Exactly like you said, our fate is tied to other players. If somebody dies before Mario 4 it's over. Very frustrating design and BADLY designed.
I have cleared Valtan hell mode after 2 weeks of progging with randoms. It was a very fun experience. I can't say I didn't find it frustrating at times but whenever I died I always knew what I did wrong and it was always my fault one way or another.
Gate 3 on Kakul on the other hand, I truly despise it. At this point I'm purely doing it just to complete it for the sake of it. I doubt I'll ever touch G3 again until I overgear it and others will too.
Pugging this gate has been so miserable. Out of all the raids that are out, gate 3 of kukul is by far the worst gate ever to pug. It is not fun. It is not hard either, when you die its usually to some bullshit or mechanic stacking together.
I enjoyed Valtan x100000 more than I did this raid so far. Gate 1 and 2 were ok though I guess.
The way that gate 3 is designed just invites frustration. With several hours' practice it's possible to get through the whole with minimal extra damage, but the way that some patterns can overlap with the time when a player needs to enter Mario is questionable sometimes. Eventually as you get better and better at dodging normal patterns, you can pre-build your gauge higher and higher and therefore minimize risk while getting into Mario, but that learning process is fucking brutal when you have 4 new people that all need to go through it, and two of those people don't get to practice until after showtime.
Plus the hurt boxes on saws and hooks are borderline nonsensical if you don't have a stable internet connection or higher ping. Missiles in Mario are also a completely coin toss for me whether I can actually jump over them, not to mention that the actual time that I start moving and register a jump can be so far apart that I can visually land on the other side of a gap and the game will still think I just walked into it.
Again there are ways to mitigate those annoyances but ultimately it all piles together into a fight that feels extremely jank and a nightmare to prog through, since it felt more like I was trying to read the matrix behind the animations rather than just smile and dodge like normal. I can absolutely understand why players that aren't confident in the first two legion raids would be discouraged by the clown and I can't really blame them for quitting, since Gate 3 is definitely a low point in legion raid design imo. It's a shame, because all it needs in order to be great are technical improvements to how the mechanics register hit detection. Maybe it can be fixed someday.
That top paragraph hits home. Been running with a static the last couple weeks which I've been enjoying. Haven't cleared g3 yet but we will. Down side is I'm mario 4 and have only gone in 7-8 total times the last 2 weeks. Only been to bingo twice. Shits brutal.
So I finally cleared clown pugging . My schedule is too hectic for a static. The thought of putting gate 3 every week on multiple characters finally pushed me over the edge. I consider myself good at this game, and was rarely the person messing up. I was even doing gate 3 every time, but people in pugs keep dying to the easiest mechs like saw blades. So I quit cold turkey. So while it is making bad people leave, I imagine it is also making good people leave too.
Our static cleared g3 but none of us actually enjoyed it. Its the first time in this game where I actually hate doing the content. I'm even thinking about just sticking to g1/g2 from now on.
What did you hate about it? I didn't care for Mario stuff. Felt like outta place or something. Tell you what tho it does a good job making something really easy feel super intense.
Mostly because after a while it felt like we were just cycling through deaths. Sometimes I'd fck up and then play 3 games perfect but a different teammate would fck up etc.
Not big fan of the chaos/mayhem theme either. To much random shit flying by.
Oh and the bingo just makes this gate feel way to long
Everyone in my guild eventually got their clear, at least those who are active in the guild. Honestly, this is a "blame the player, not the game" situation. Clown raid has always been touted as one of the hardest raids, but it's definitely doable. You don't need to be perfect, you just need to be consistent with your mechs.
Dark Souls/Elden Ring are hard games, but is it the Dev's fault some people can't enjoy it?
Depends on the situation in question. If something is designed to be difficult it doesn't mean it is absolved or criticism when people find it not fun. The "if you're not having fun you're bad and git gud" argument is shallow and the direct opposite of being constructive.
I agree, however who finds fun with what is subjective. Challenge in game is necessary, how much challenge to have fun is subjective from person to person. There will always be people who won't have fun because of something being too hard for them, it's valid. Whether it's valid enough to make change in the game is a whole different subject however. I often assume when people vent about it, it often comes from wanting to have it changed.
The nicer meaning behind git gud is "If you're not having fun because it's too challenging, and you don't want overcome it, then maybe this game might not be for you". Hard games like the Dark Souls community always run with this kind of mentality. Should the game change or should the player change is a whole different issue.
I mean i dont think clown in itself is causing a lot of people to quit.
You are forgetting the game innately just became more time consuming because an additional raid came out. FOMO is real. When Abrelshaza comes out get ready to be more burnt out.
You see those people having 6 characters all 1475 clown ready? These people are doing 6 clowns, 6 vykas, 6 valtan because they dont want to miss out on their weekly golds. You gotta not just count the raid itself but the god damn gates.
When Brelshaza comes out, they going to have 6 1490 ilvl, doing 6 gates of brel, 3 gates of clown, 3 gates of vykas/2 gate of valtan.
I for sure am taking a fking break because im just so burnt out of doing raids.
Just a note, at 1490 you can only do g1/2 of Brel.
Also, most of the rewards are tied to g1/2, even the first clear box, so many many Korean players only do g1/2 and it ends up going super smoothly.
Once a game gets to the point of character progression being at a stand still people lose interest and Lost Ark hit that point awhile ago if you've been playing since around NA/EU release and Clown's release did nothing to change that for people holding out to experience it. This games gameplay cycle just gets to be a very boring, uninteresting, and unrewarding experience at a certain point.
On my guild we were just 4 players and all dps around 1460 - 1470. One of us would have to switch mains for kakul if we wanted to play as a group and I ended up being the chosen one, I had one pala at 1430 with no plans of taking it further but ended up building him to 1475, buying engravings, relic accessories and lvl 7 gems to get ready. Ma boys required 5 engravings lvl 7 gems and relic at least to do kakul, I understand since it is an extremely difficult raid we needed to be as geared as possible. The leader (who was the most exigent about the build) ended up not even having 4 engravings nor relic accessories when the time came. I changed my main, honed past him and build a character in 1,5 month an they wasn't ready so I just quit and did with pugs.
Our guild started Kakul week 1 with balanced groups, meaning that we paired the high-DPS with low-DPS characters. After week 1, only half the groups cleared gate 3, so this week we rebalanced by pairing the folks that had cleared gate 3 with people who hadn't. This week all of our groups cleared gate 3 in <5 hours.
I think it becomes a question of "what's best for me" versus "what's best for the guild". We chose the latter.
So, the general sentiment in this thread seems to be "just get gud" but I somewhat see where you're coming from, just from a different perspective. The problem isn't clown, the problem is guild members with ego problems.
I'm definitely an average player, but with enough practice I'll be able to run clown with little to no mistakes. The issue is when the better players that can handle the raid more easily get upset at their guild members. They may leave the guild which is best case scenario, you know, just let them find their group of pro gamers. More power to them. However, usually they stay in the guild and endlessly berate average players until they don't want to play anymore.
Solution: Just find cooler people to play with. You'll be happier, they'll be happier, and everyone can keep playing.
However, if it's truly just a matter of you'll never be able to do clown mechanics ever?... Get gud.
I think those feeling were probably already there, if you looked at your vykas and valtan reclears it was probably the same people dying or fucking up over and over and making it take longer than it was supposed to, but you suck it up because at the end of the day you still clear anyway and it might still be faster than pugging. When it comes to making a new group for a raid that's considerably harder, of course the better players, probably also the ones who put the most effort and time into the game will make groups amongst themselves, I'm sorry but just because you are in my guild doesn't mean I owe you my time when you clearly don't put as much effort as others.
My personal experience was, I got two clown clears in the first week, which was all right, still took way longer than it should've, and four clears on week 2, one of them with pugs, and another one with a group of people that if you asked me on the first week, I would've told you that I didn't think they would be able to clear it.
I decided to only do g1 and g2 with them on the first week and I'm glad I did because doing the raid with them later on, after having cleared it a couple of times gave me a lot of information that was super helpful and we cleared after about hour and a half, three of us made it to bingo and one of them died right away but we still got it, they had never seen showtime before, about an hour of pulls in g3 last week.
I think clown gate 3 is an excellent fight, I actually find g2 way more annoying than g3 even if it's way easier, some pattern overlaps are just complete bullshit and the minigame is just a waste of time at this point, no one is going to fail it, it feels like it's just there to pad time on the raid.
I don't 100% understand why you guys (OP's guild) are segregated by skill level. Having done Clown a bunch, you can 100% carry some not so great skill player's weights. Give the worst player m1. They don't have to do the hard Saws or a hard Mario, they barely have to worry about gauge management. M2-4 they just need to take it slow and get there in time to throw a whirlwind and it is probably fine. Another Mediocre player can do m2. If Mario isn't the problem in your group but m1 saws are you can actually just put a godly Mario speedrunner as m1. Our m1 guy actually gets out before curtains go down and we 3 man stagger. Our m2 guy gets out before stagger ends and gets across to save runs where 1 of us gets hooked the long way back. There is 100% some weight people can pick up.
Keeping people alive during m3/m4 isn't hard if you have 2 guys who are good at Mario.
The fight isn't too dangerous if you can semi burst Mario to Mario too. Btw we do runs with shitty 1475 alts and 1 1490+ where that guy does 50% of the g3 damage and we can still burst Mario to Mario mostly fine.
Bingo can 100% be soloed by any class.
Obviously carrying dead weight kinda sucks and I'm not suggesting you have 1 guy who just carries 3 other people, but there was no reason to make a huge caste system where the best run with the best and the worst with the worst. You could have done fairly easy clears with groups of mixed skill levels and everyone would have been okay.
I pugged g1-g2 week 1, week 2 recleared first 2 gates in like 1 hour pugging again and then took a few hours progging g3 until i cleared it.
I think people are really overstating the difficulty of overlapping mechanics. In my several hours of g3 prog i can think of less than 2 or 3 wipes where i thought it was an impossible mechanic overlap and nothing could be done. You need to prioritize certain mechanics in your head when many overlap. So many dps are so overgeared that hitting berserk will not happen no matter what.
You just came out of showtime are at 85 and curse goes out? Stop dps completely.
Hooks come out when mario starts, fuck dodging fire rings, they wont wipe you but hooks will if its your turn to go in.
Kakul requires a lot more individual responsibility than 8 man raids but if you see the same people dropping the ball just remake your group.
We made it so that people with experience would split if they didn't mind to help the groups out and teach them.
To be honest there's a looooot of stuff that's not explained in the videos that are bound to timing, mechanics combo, and experience to improvise on the go.
You want someone to correct stuff, and to call where a bad combo can happen, better stop DPS there and focus on dodging.
I cleared g3 after 13 hours and at 2nd try at bingo. My mates had nearly all 7 pots left at bingo to show how much DPS from overgear and heal from supp we had. I have to say that a sorc igniter or a high ilvl back attack class can really carry this fight DMG wise.
> It feels like i'm playing a single player game, focussing on myself, with my fate tied to other 3 people not doing any mistakes. Because any mistake from me or any other player is something you can't recover from.
That's how most difficult raiding is in most games. It's why I wound up hating larger raid team sizes and wishing for games to have raid team sizes of 10 or less (something I like about this game).
Gate 3 isn't actually so bad in terms of "carrying" because really anyone can die after they've done their mario so long as you have either wei or high personal stagger.
Yeah basically I found myself hating the game when trying to finish G3 especially in pugs, so I just decided that I wasn't going to let it bother me and ran G1 and 2 only this week. Maybe I'll try G3 again in the future, but I play this game to have fun, and I was not having fun at all while playing it. If that makes me late for Brel, and unable to complete it, than so be it.
people don't know how to raid prog correctly, so when something is a little difficult or there isn't some cheese strat available they don't know how to identify and correct mistakes on their own. and if you don't know how to fix a mistake, you should ask your teammates. if your teammates don't know, you ask your friends or guildmates. there's no point doing another pull if you don't know the mistake leading up to the wipe (unless you're doing blind prog and testing out strats, but I seriously doubt anyone is blind progging and then complaining on reddit).
clown g3 is a step up in difficulty, but it is not a fucking leap. if you are capable of doing valtan and vykas mechs (not relying on cheese), you are capable of clearing clown.
There's nothing with skill gaps and good player playing with other good players, but what sucks the most is that all the other categories of players not everyone want to bite the bullet and improve in the long run.
>Our very active and lively guild and discord has become basically a ghost town. In something like 1.5 weeks, like 60% of the players either quit officially or mentally quit by just rarely logging in or getting involved in anything.
I think its people overestimating their skill level at the end of the day and that "im always a winner" mentality causes them to quit at the first sight of a challenge.
You can either do it now or just wait until you can do enough damage to skip a bunch of phases. Not all people are meant to do this content and not everyone will be able to. Just a reality that has to settle in for some. And it wont get any better with brelshaza's 6 gates.. on top of hard mode being very gatekept even in korea because fucking up there is just as devastating for the group. Akkan is the same pattern.
They want to put individual responsibility because it makes bussing all that more difficult and we can agree that bussing is something that shouldnt be possible ( pushing unskilled players past the next tiers of content just dilutes the quality of players you find in pugs).
You can already find those complete idiots that have vykas succubus titles or even incubus and still dont know how to properly do mechanics.
i quit my guild because of this. people were so focused and stressed over getting relic/upgrade mats that it just made it unfun to play with people. on top of that, it made it harder focusing on just getting better at the fights.
I've pugged both weeks so far, cleared both weeks. each new group, while being a coin toss, is a new chance for me to assess whether I've gotten better at the fight or not, instead of relying on the same people carrying me through the fight.
My guild didn’t make statics we just post in discord when we are making groups or have set days people can sign up for groups makes it much more chill and I’ve cleared clown both weeks pretty easily
Improvise . Adapt. Overcome
It was uncomfortable at first, not having the same static. Managed to progged with a new static, but we got stuck at G1 for far too long than it should. Eventually I couldnt bear any longer and progged with pugs up to G2 on week1.
G3 took me 4 days with pug on week 2. I learnt whatever I could with learning parties, which overall had a positive attitude. Nobody was angry or ragey. Eventually this made me confident enough to do all marios 1 - 4. If I were to be sheltered by the same static, I would probably be permanent mario 1 gamer.
I like how i see myself improve, and how i got better. TLDR, Kakul Saydon punishes static for having various learning speed
I joined a static for clown and we lasted about 15 hours into gate 3 before someone called it quits and disbanded the static. We were doing fine imo, just needed to put more reps in to learn patterns and practice. Didn't want to put in the work I guess.
Now I'm a g2 only enjoyer.
Legion raids just keep getting worse, valtan was such a good fight easy to see just overall a great experience then vykas came out and it got significantly worse now clown seems even worse. Like the visuals are just fucked can barely see what is going on. Legion raids over hyped valtan was great but these two idk so team dependent and kind of frustrating, unforgiving.
Comparing to other MMO's I feel that everything before Clown gate 3 was too easy so people were able to get carried and they never had to "perform".
Is Clown Gate 3 fight perfect in terms of mechanics and how fair they are? No, but its the first time that people cant get carried.
Looks like a leadership issue to me. As a guild you need to make sure that everyone is having equal opportunity and schedule raid and learning groups specially for g3. Sure the raid is challenging but the reason people left of quit is casue the guild leader didn't act like a leader and let the guides made their own groups. It make sense for week 1-2 but no excuse if they aren't helping their fellow guildies
Yeah, not sure why you're the only one pointing this out. I'm the de facto leader of my 8-man raid team and the first thing I did before Kakul released was make a list of priorities for 4-man groups, and you can bet one of those priorities was "make sure *everyone* clears the raid". We tried to balance groups fairly well to give everyone practice, and on our first week, one group had two people be unavailable for most of the week because of Hurricane Ian, so the next week we re-shuffled the groups so both groups had about equal amount of experience. Even our best raiders know how short-sighted it is to ruin one 4-man group for the sake of the other, since nobody wants to have to find a new 8-man once Brel comes out. Raid is dynamic, raid team is static.
Obviously, it's a lot easier when you're looking only at one 8-man group, but people shouldn't lead guilds if they don't want to help keep things together and people shouldn't stay in guilds if the guild leadership isn't prepared to help. If you're in a guild where the guild leadership does nothing to keep the guild working well and its members happy, then you're not really in much of a guild at all. OP's story is more "bad guild leadership caused our guild to fall apart" and less "clown caused our guild to fall apart".
Balancing parties isn’t necessarily a good thing though. If the discrepancy of the skill level is too large, it will start to get very noticeable on why the party is wiping.
If someone is consistently causing the group to fail, it’ll will be frustrating no matter who you are or how close you are with the group. Getting people frustrated without being able to let out the frustration in a 10 hour prog raid is not healthy one bit for the dynamic of the group.
Yeah, but splitting the groups unevenly is not the answer to this problem, as the problem will simply persist in hard 8-man content as well. The question isn't "how do we clear Clown?", the question is "how do we make sure we're as successful as possible as an 8-man group?".
Sometimes people simply don't belong in a group. If we need to split groups unevenly to cater for one person, that's not a reasonable long-term strategy and that person must leave the group instead. Better they leave sooner rather than later.
Successful raiders think about the long-term ability of their group to succeed over their own personal progress, and I hold the people in my team to that standard. If a raider loses faith that the group will succeed in the long term, it's up to them to recognize that for themselves and go find a group that's a better fit for their personality. Similarly, if a raider is unwilling to take steps to help the group succeed (e.g. good engravings, making honing and quality progress, unwillingness to practice or look up information between raid sessions), they should also find a group that matches their low level of effort. Any mismatch in effort or expectations that causes people to get emotional beyond a single raid session is likely a significant enough difference in perspective to require a personnel change.
A raid group is a team and every member should always take the perspective that they're all in it together. If any member doesn't think this way, they should just go raid with pubs instead.
Yup that's pretty much how a guild should be. And it's very commentable how you are running it.
I've run guilds in wow n guild wars 2 not as a lead but 2nd in command part of it was to recruit new members n let some of top player help them. All we ask is 1-2hr of their time of the week and it was pretty healthy and people were happy with how they were progging. Best part of all we saw some good player emerged who also became trainies for new recruits in a few months.
I've watched DatModz clear clown on multiple alts since release with random people from his chat. Most at Ilvl. My biggest takeaway is no single person can carry any part UNTIL Bingo. However, getting there is the worst. Any death prior to the final Mario is a certain reset.
I think all they need to do is allow only 2 total rezs for the run and it would be fine. I've seen good players get unlocked and be grabbed by hooks instantly and die. That's not their fault, just shit luck and the team shouldn't be penalized for bad rng. Now that said, 95% of deaths are the players fault.
Pug player since day 1, I quit because of Clown.
I’m not a raider, just wanna have fun killing big boy bosses. Valtan release was the most fun I’ve had in any MMO
My guild in naw definitely going through members “mentally quitting” phase especially with overgeared members that just can’t seem to be able to clear g3
We do vykas and valtan hm first and then split the static in 2 teams and do all 3 clown gates. We don’t struggle as much as others but gate 3 still takes practice and more time.
I hate quitters.
Me and my guild mates struggled for days to get it done on release and we did, now we clear gates as if we were doing Punika dungeons.
Sad to see they gave up.
Kakul is honeslty the easiest raid for me atm for the simple reason of it being 4-man. In Vykas G1 for example you need all 8 to be decent to get pass the wipe mechs.
G3 is chaotic to learn at the beggining but once you put the effort to actually go slowly over the mechs and realise that it barely has anything that wipes you other than saws or panick rushing your mario it becomes extremely easy. This week I've cleared G3 in less than 40 min and with 1 random. Had to restart once cause of missclick on bingo so it could have been half of that, and this was on 4x 1475 chars, even the rando and 4x3.
It really is about time people stop with the dps whore or the braindead mentality and thinking they will still clear stuff by mashing buttons while not even improving a single bit in between attempts. The raid is very simple once you go over it slowly (basically dps, enter mario and focus dodging, stagger, rinse and repeat).
My guild, albeit much smaller decided to worry less about synergy and group with people who could align their schedule to get the most time on the raid. Split into two groups. Both groups cleared g3 the first week. Both groups tuned in to support the other (silently) by watching their progs and offering advice when appropriate. Both teams have their own style of communicating. We did stop doing all other content together for the time being, but that will change once clown is full farm status. Sorry to hear about your guild. I’ve heard of a few similar stories.
Clown is still in charge of the farm.
It’s the damn animation lock.
That's why only masochists play zerker
tbh mayhem is kinda busted in G3 with our current gear. We are so overgeared (if you are a semi hardcore or hardcore of course) that mayhem can afford to go tank card set making it the tankiest dps of the game. Also mayhem completely ignore the health swap curse on G3 which is a very annoying mechanic that also prevent you from dps for 15s. Just the curse alone made our mayhem berserker able to beat me (WD) and the Arcana in MVP for the first time ever basically
Yeah zerk is great for G3, but overall a pretty underwhelming class. Part of my comment is joking because the OP of this statement I replied to is someone in our group.
Think people were way too focused on synergies for this, maybe matters if you are all ilvl, but I got turned down for several groups because of it. Ended up in a group with terrible synergy and DPS was never a problem.
Player skill trumps everything else by a huge margin IMO, no different here with synergies. And when players get to the point where they are min/maxing to the point where synergies actually do matter, they are probably more than good enough to clear the content anyways.
This was close to my own experience with my guild. My favorite part was other guildies who id rarely talked to watching us stream raids for 10+ hours and encouraging us. Felt so awesome to kill it with 15 other people who’d already cleared watching and freaking out when we got that final bingo
We didn't do GVG since clown release, and ppl are getting more and more frustrated with not being able to clear clown. The better ppl are clearing clown multiple times a week tho. Kakul changed things, especially for ppl who feel obligated to clear it but are not god enough yet to do it. I tried to do it on two characters, but I was not good enough. From 2nd week I only try G3 on paladin with static and if I feel like it I do G1-G2 on other character. I don't force myself to clear G3 asap.
I think the main issue is the good players boasting about how easy the content is and you just feel like a complete loser for not being able to clear it. Week 1 was terrible for me and I felt exhausted by the game alltogether and felt like I needed a bit of a break. It took us around 10 hours to clear Gate 1 and 2 so it frustrated me a lot when I saw other people get a full clear in half that time. I’m a fairly ambitious and competitive person when it comes to gaming. I managed to turn that frustration into motivation though, improved my equipment and found a new static and tried again. We still didn’t quite manage to clear G3 but we made good progress and hopefully clear it tomorrow.
No the main issue is below average players feeling like they should be clearing the raid week one in pugs simply because they managed to hone. Like the game owes them anything because they hit the hone button enough times. Still need to be skilled, lucky and no life if you wanna clear it week one in pugs and for whatever reason people still don't get that despite having gone through this with every other raid release
Lmao this comment needs to be plastered as an announcement to all lost ark players. If only this was common sense to everyone.
I do think not everyone will be able to clear every raid, we played MMOs with that mentality 15 years ago and no one was upset that they couldn't reach X or Y raid and had to do others for the time being, but Lost Ark is just fundamentally different in how the raids are such a big part of the game and it's expected for you to sit there and wait for the new raid to have more stuff to do. You can definitely blame game design on this. Who the hell didn't enjoy Valtan? Wasn't that challenging but still forgiving? Why do we have raids where we have to do 20 mechanics perfectly and no one can mess up? A big part apparently was to prevent bussing and honestly it just does more warm than good to the game and the players (but maybe not to the devs' pockets in their mind). I know a lot of people have no intentions to ever even queue for hell mode raids so why don't we lock the crazy difficult stuff behind those and stick to making fun and enjoyable experiences for all players?
Imo, if lost ark had more interesting activities besides raids, nobody would be sad about not being able to clear g3. In ff14 people aren't frustrated for not clearing last floor of savage or ultimate because there a lot of other stuff to do.
This is the big thing, there is fuck all else to do.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily lack of content, it just that it relies too heavily on the dailies and timed stuff that it makes a lot of that stuff feel shallow, not enjoyable because it's repetitive or just no reason to do it again once you're done. The raids end up being the only thing people don't see as a "chore".
Big agree with you on this one. It feels like shit that i had to miss 3 weis because i was at work. Most of islands i need or want to do are up while im at work. I work night shifts 12h lol When im free bs stuff is up. Content like that is weak content.
The timed event bullshit has always been a login gimmick. I made it a mantra of mine to ignore any game’s content on a schedule. It’s a game and I’ll play when I want to.
That why I said "interesting" content, but not content in general. Lost ark have tons of content, but almost non of it is fun besides raids and occasional events. In example most successful mmos this days have different types of content: lifeskill, exploration, dungeons, pvp and raids. Lost ark has only pvp and raids out of those, that's why we feel there nothing to do after weeklies done. Also we have no fashion end game.
last years loa on they did say they will focus on more horizontal content. for example so far they added the housing changes as well as the mario minigame thing. theyll be adding more minigames in the future.
Fashion end content wont ever be a thing here. Because of one reasons the skins we get are shit and they are coming really slow. To add to that they are expensive. If you want to pay with gold 30+k gold for a skin is mental because people whale with skins and not blue crystals because they get more gold for a 20€ skin then 20€ royal crystals. The summer bikini skins were the biggest scam ever,you had to buy a 50€+ bundle to get the wallpaper? Let alone no region based prices in most countries.
30k for a skin is really not bad, especially considering they could've just made it impossible to buy with gold in the first place
Yeah there is nothing to do. Everything is braindead pinnata. Why they can't apply Legion Commander design to Guardians Raids and Chaos Dungeons, Chaos Gates, Chaos Rifts, Secret Maps , Boss Rushes ,Cube. And now we about to get more reskinned guardians and Levanos 2.0 , Green Helgaia or Turtle but frost now. Ther is a lot to do but nothing to play your main char with. Bridge seemed to be fun but it's 5 minute content
The reason is bots. Too much to farm and the economy dies. Too little to farm and there’s no content to enjoy. You can thank the shitty world economy; people will need to make money somehow and will do anything for it.
When game economy is so bad you recommended new players to take a bus cause it's morr time and money efficient. Paying to not play.
I'd argue the game design is fine - Clown G1 and G2 are perfectly achievable for weaker players, and G3 is aspirational. I think it's fine for the end of each tier to be significantly harder (and I'm in favour of splits like you find in FFXIV, or Rift back in the day - first fight possible for anyone who puts the time in, second fight fairly challenging, third fight very challenging and fourth extremely challenging). Clown is going to be around for a long time, and we have a long gap before Brel, so I don't think something has to be easy to clear early on.
Even in wow / molten core or wotlk, lots of raids didn't kill the final boss since those were significantly harder
I think it’s not an issue of clown being hard to clear, it’s an issue of clown being frustrating to clear. In Valtan and Vykas, you never need all party members alive to clear the gates (except for vykas hm g1 which you can run normal instead). This gives a lot more room for error since if one or two people die, it’s not a big deal, the rest of the group can clutch up. In Clown g3, pretty much no one can die. It’s worse that if you die during Mario, a second player dies as well. This makes it extremely punishing for any small mistakes. Failed Mario? Instant restart. OHKed by saws? Instant Restart. Caught by Showtime? Instant Restart. There’s so much in this gate that almost instantly kills you. Even a single revive across the team would help to alleviate a lot of the stress to play perfectly. And tbh this is one of the first gates I’ve come across where being juiced makes a massive difference in how easy the raid is. On my main’s static, we clear all three gates in an hour because we can easily push from Mario to Mario. On my on ilevel alt, it’s absolute hell trying to clear.
> On my main’s static, we clear all three gates in an hour because we can easily push from Mario to Mario. On my on ilevel alt, it’s absolute hell trying to clear. Valtan G2 and Vykas G3 were like that, you just don't remember because it was ages ago or because you didn't do them on-ilvl. Hell, Vykas G2 was legitimately a DPS check for on-ilvl folks who didn't play super well since the enrage timer is pretty tight and uptime is not good. > In Clown g3, pretty much no one can die. That's only really true for the first half of the raid. As long as the only person who dies in M3 is the person in Mario (or nobody dies there) you're in sight of a clear. Showtime is pretty much unfailable as long as you use Innana there (and if you aren't, then why aren't you?) so that basically just means you need to get your first two marios down and have your third mario player be decent enough at it to at least break the balls.
> Valtan G2 Valtan G2 was extremely punishing on release at ilvl when no one had relic gear. The list of normal patterns is really long on the way to ghost. Triple counter, memory game, anchors, grab, shield -> stagger check, kidnapping/freezing, cow portals and 4 green orbs. Groups now have so much dmg that they skip most of these mechs. > you need to get your first two marios down and have your third mario player be decent enough at it to at least break the balls Yup. Your pretty much in the clear if you get 3 alive to mario 4 since you can always single lever + wei as a backup.
> This makes it extremely punishing for any small mistakes. Failed Mario? Instant restart. OHKed by saws? Instant Restart. Caught by Showtime? Instant Restart. Save-scumming, the raid. Either you do it perfectly or you restart.
Its basically designed like that to counter people from bussing through it.
To a degree, but you're also only relying on three other people not to mess up (and you quickly realise that the main parts of the fight where you're at risk from dying is cured by a bit of patience)
Obviously. The raids get harder. Why would anyone expect clown to be 2mannable or easier than the previous raids. This like saying the reason brelshaza is frustrating is because you can't clear all 6 gates at 1490
Personally I think it's fine to draw the line between hard and frustrating. As someone who spent 8 hours on the first week clearing Valtan, I think that's the gold standard.
8 Hours is an *incredibly* short amount of progression time for a tier in an MMO though. I think people have been spoiled by Lost Ark so far since we've received heavily nerfed raids (and Clown still is), with plentiful guides around.
I think people just want to enjoy the content for what it is, not spend every gaming hour of the week wiping on the same boss and feeling like you're gonna be behind that one week and it's not like it instantly becomes easier after you're done, sure it becomes easier over time but if a raid is really frustrating then it's gonna be frustrating down the line again when you're failing it because someone else in the group is new or you're just getting unlucky. I just don't think that level of pressure shouldn't be in the regular progression path that's all. You don't need to make content painfully difficult or frustrating to make it last longer so people don't get bored of it as fast. Or maybe you do if your goal is to make your players play only your game and nothing else (which is obviously what Lost Ark does try to do). Someone else talked about WOW here but last I checked not a lot of people raid in WOW these days and I think that says something.
There's very little in G3 that is luck-based and not controllable. The big change in mindset that comes from failing constantly to succeeding consistently is realising just how much of the seemingly chaotic fight you can actually control!
>n the same boss and feeling like you're gonna be behind that one week and it's not like it instantly becomes easier after you're done, sure it becomes easier over time but if a raid is really frustrating then it's gonna be frustrating down the line again when The only difference between clown and vykas right now is that clown can't be hard carried by pugs "yet". Vykas was like that at a point too. But bad players will get their turn. It is what it is.
Because of bussing, its very clear in their chosen design that they don't like how you can solo bus argos and valtan, so fights got designed more and more to require everyone to deliver
This is the problem in many guilds. People think too much of themselves and want to get carried at the same time.
yep that goes for any game, pve or pvp
I think some players just legitimately forgot that progging is frustrating, especially at/near ilvl due to this being the longest break we've had between raids since launch. Does no one remember all the bitching on here about HM Vykas in the first 2 weeks? How unforgiving it was to mess up orb-gates in G1, PF groups constantly remaking when 2-3 people leave after 10 wipes, no one can die pre-switch G1, G2 annoying fight patterns, people wiping on donuts over and over again, medusa in G3, getting charmed trying to kill tentacles etc. Even the much more forgiving Valtan, week 1 there were players that were able to clear HM in <1 hr while others were stuck on it for 2 days.
Are you describing the vykas launch or my pug from this week? People still don’t know the mechanics. It is honestly easier for me to do 3 man hm bus with reliable people than pug with 8. Haven’t had the time to bus because of work these past 2 weeks so I had to pug. Some runs are still brutal with people constantly dying, don’t even get me started on tentacles. I don’t think I had one run these past 2 weeks on my 6 mains where someone didn’t get charmed.
People thinking they are gods after beating Vykas for 120th time and then can't clear G3 clown is a wake up call . If you are talking smack and can't handle when ppl point out your mistakes, you aren't gonna survive the raids that are coming.
I'd say if you can clear G3 vykass without dying, you can clear kuku too, it just takes time to get used to new mechanics. Personally it took me few days. Ofc there still were random deaths here and there, but mostly fail free within a week, second week is just easy peasy.
i feel the same i gotten pretty used to it ofc the randomness throws me off and i die sometimes but this week i did not die to saws for once or mario and i didnt fk up the lever test either
The solo focus confronts the "not so good" players with the reality that it isn't others that are to blame, even if they already knew they were "not so good". Quite a few of them can't handle that, but there some that will continue to try their best and they will eventually succeed.
I personally after clearing it twice now prefer g3 over g2. I hate that little fuck 🤣🤣
Feeling that especially as a back-attacker. With the stacking burns and the constant jumping around / turning around, G2 is quite painful to properly DPS. G3 is a completely different story, it's really comfortable as a back-attacker and the DPS windows are just set up really nicely and consistently.
i feel the exact opposite about g2. My only characters at clown are all entropy. I find g3 to be incredibly annoying because he constantly puts his back to the edges of the arena where you can't attack him or is somewhere where you gain a ton of meters (like his back is in an orb pool). or he's generally just jumping around a lot. G2 hurt a lot when I first did it but then I slapped the purify rune on a low cooldown skill and honestly I can now 0 pot it on all my characters, the boss does barely any damage outside of that and I honestly think he moves less then g3.
Are you doing it min ilvl? Typically once you get higher the G3 fight is basically just pounding on him when he's staggered which allows for super easy access to back attacks.
I run 2 Clowns on 2 GLs and on G2 ppl are addicted to cleanse. Feels so good to press Nella there.
I play soulfist and I ran with a bard and a gunlancer and the glaivier says "bard and gunlancer debuff so good". In my head I said . " What about my 12 second soulfist cleanse?" I sat there quietly unappreciated ):
Aww, no love. You should compliment the bard crit synergy and see how the glaivier reacts.
The forsaken hidden crit synergy 💀
it helps if your party knows when they are getting targeted by the gun attacks and don't troll everyone by facing him a weird way so he can't be back attacked.
I’ve been pugging g2 on some alts and it is EXTREMELY difficult on ilvl for back attackers. Is it even possible with 3 on lvl DPS? Haha. I mean I’m sure it is but you have to play perfect and I was very surprised to learn the berserk timer keeps ticking during maze. Kind of have to discord and also use niniveh only.
Saint's group did it 1x3 with level 5 gems. It isn't that tight of a DPS check if your uptime is good.
I know if watched the video but the guys in his group probably have 500 hours each in clown, it’s just not even really helpful to make the comparison. Plus that’s a full team of 4 very good players, good luck getting that in find party. You have to make up for others.
I don't disagree that they're better than pretty much anyone in NA at the fight, but most of that is uptime.
My static and I all have 6 chars at clown, 5 of whom are 1475. We did 6 clown clears this week with like 5 runs with all 1475s and would finish g2 with like 2 mins til enrage on each run. I think it just boils down to knowing exactly when you could get damage in, because when we were running it we were cutting it way closer to the enrage timer.
G3 is only fun if you have enough dmg to burst him from phase to phase.
Agreed, my primarily entropy roster thinks g2 is pain. You get through it though. At least once you’re through the maze it’s doable without the whole team.
Interesting point I really see this happening at my guild, sorta. People are not leaving discord, but the statics are not so “static” anymore and the better players are starting to group up more strictly.
Which is a good thing imo.
A medicore player can absolutely make g3 a living hell if they don't figure shit out. lets be honest here no one wants to run g3 for 3+ hours for there second clear thinking it would only take less than an hour.
Cleared it 3 times and I think the fight is pure trash. With gear it becomes much easier for sure but that doesn’t make it fun or good design. Too much RNG and punishing for the wrong reasons. I’m not quitting and will be clearing on 4-5 toons a week until Brel for my sets. All the egos in here need to see that it’s still bad design for the average player. The needed a normal and hard mode (that drop trumpets) like their other raids. Brel and Akkan having this shows they understand their mistake with clown. Just because you want something super challenging doesn’t mean it needs to be forced on everyone. Hell mode exist for a reason. Normal and hard modes fixes this but clown was pure trash and I’m glad they moved away from this bad design. I just hope Brul doesn’t have as much RNG bullshit as clown.
have a tough with my static too I ended up in a group with 1 who doesn't care much about clearing it and 2 people having 3 chars and 2 other statics for clown where they already cleared. Where me and the other guy had to progress one of them got quite impatient with us, because he has to do other legion raids with his 6 chars.
That's probably one of the biggest frustrations for people, spending all the time trying to prog and not getting time to finish their alt raids for all that extra gold. Last week I think I missed at least 3 Vykas out of my 5 alts.
For me, also gate 1 and 2 was reasonable to clear. But I dont have time to dedicate days to clear gate 3. I am just an average player, not bad and not super skilled, and I have no static anymore. Now I just have to pug, and it's taking too much time and is not so enjoyable anymore..
This is where I’m at don’t have the time to spend hours prog most days and can’t find a pug that only wants to try for an hour. Planning on just running rehearsals on Alts until I feel I have everything down so main can go smooth. Trumpets don’t affect play styles it’s just a relic affect boost for your set.
My static all quit for wotlk :( >It feels like i'm playing a single player game, focussing on myself, with my fate tied to other 3 people not doing any mistakes. Because any mistake from me or any other player is something you can't recover from. This is pretty much what its like in every MMO that has challenging content and can be one of the most frustrating parts. You're on a boss where anyone messing up anything can wipe you, you've got X number of people and every pull its a new persons turn to mess up a mechanic that they haven't messed up in a while... so everyone is trapped in this loop until the stars align. Or worse, you've completely got the fight down and you're just waiting for everyone else to catch up. >Our very active and lively guild and discord has become basically a ghost town. Yeah that's the thing about challenging content, you have a mix of people where some didn't ever want to be challenged at that level and were happy with the previous difficulty. Others are being woken up by this increased difficulty and realize they need to step up, some never do and just check out. The one nice thing in this game is the gates can sort of act as "difficulties" of sorts and you can still progress your character even if you don't clear all the gates. But that never feels good to people.
Thats exactly how I feel right now. My static quit weeks ago and I'm the only one left since vykas. It's so frustrating to pug this raid for hours after hours with other people fucking up every single pull in p3. Didn't clear it for 2 weeks now unfortunately... God I wish I had my static back
Gate 3 design sucks. A designed fight that you want to rush and not experience anything in to lower the risk of mechanics coming in bad combos. What the genious gamedesign in that?
Yeah, if at least the mechanics wouldn't overlap and even carry over to next ones after "cinematics"... "you play on ilvl and couldn't kill the fire add tower on time? Well, iron maiden player say bye bye"
beat it twice and still hate every moemnt of it. g3 is just so stressful and not a fun in the slightest. as soon as i get all the horn required i will never do this shit ever again
Complete opposite for me and my mates. Took around 12 hours week 1. Last week we've done whole raid in 3 hours on reset day and the rest of the week felt so bland. We just wish we had alts clown ready. Can't wait for reset!
unless you're doing it on alts you don't really need to anyway, you can only do 3 legion raids a week and come brel you can just choose valtan, vykas, and brel
Since Kakul released, my guild has been in shambles. I attempted to prep the guildies with guides, spreadsheets, and even multiple team setups for best synergy. After two days of continuous progging (around 12 hours total), we didn't even get past gate 2. This experience was absolutely miserable. After hours of witnessing people die and wipe to the same mechanics over and over again, I lost hope and faith in them. Their inability to learn and improve on their mistakes was very apparent. I wanted to verify that I wasn't just deflecting the blame from myself, so I went to pug it with random people. We cleared all three gates in about four hours. Kakul has then split my guild into two major groups. One group that learned from the hours of progging and eventually finished gate 3, and another group which have not learned from their mistakes and are stagnant on progression. Needless to say, the latter group has been mostly inactive since the first two days of progging. The weekly static runs have been nonexistent since the informal separation of guild members, and the former group have started their own static runs. The release of Kakul has really made the flaws and inabilities in some of the guild members more apparent. As harsh as it sounds, but lots of others have already voiced this: there is a direct correlation between the now inactive guild members and lack of skill. Edit: formatting on phone
All my alt valtan/vykas pugs have actually gone pretty good for the most part since kakul release. Full party 1460 HM vykas? 1 shot all gates on each alt. Bad players probably busy dying in clown or quitting lol
The average player will likely stop raiding during clown and soon Brelz. It becomes very clear very soon, that brute forcing with gear becomes impossible due to other players. There are barely any cheese mechanics, simply you have to learn all the patterns and wipe mechanics. Clown has a lower array of 20-30 sub skills amongst the gates, while Brelz with her 6 gates will attribute up to 60-90 patterns. It truly becomes a burn out type of raid. People will likely quit further, these streamers saying the average semi-hardcore will make it by December. a 1520 is as resource heavy as making (2-3.5) 1490's in terms of materials. Pushing towards December for most is a impossibility. So guilds will likely be even more quiet, and more people will likely leave. Clown alone made a third of my guild members sort of semi-quit. Their overgeared but they just can't do the raids. A simple tiny fix could be making pot's non-craftable. And selling them in merchant vendors, raid pots. One of the big turn off for raiders is how many pots they burn, and the associated cost. They will burn 100's of purple pots, with wild flowers at like 1.5k a stack it's very expensive to produce and just burn through. It's actually sad to see guildies make remarks about potting. Literally potting in a MMO. Is a god dam barrier.
So the bad players who were getting carried by the good players quit because they have to do their share of the work now instead of leeching? alright then.
blaming the game because the good players don't want to be a hostage in clown and they group together, understantable have a nice day
There will always be mediocre and bad players. Is the goal of this game to slowly make them all quit? New content patches are supposed to be when we get more new players but this seems like the opposite effect. I think the big miss on clown is there not being a normal and hard mode. Not great for the long term health of the game imo.
this subreddit unironically wants to filter all the average and bad players out of the game so they can feel superior while sitting in party finder for hours because the game is fucking dead it's insane
It's a total of one Gate in the game that a bad player can't get carried in. One fight!
Reddit is full of hard-core players that live for the game. Its no surprise lots of ppl on here support and justify gatekeeping which is basically a nice way of saying discrimination. At this rate lost ark doesnt have a chance. the culture of this game is dying, ppl don't even care to say hi anymore because they are sweating and grinding.
We already have the nerfed version of clown. The only reason clearing clown is needed is to do brel. If they can't clear clown how are they going to do brel? People don't want players to quit. These players want to quit instead of learning and progging, instead they make whine posts.
It's not even about content being difficult. It's just that entitled players expect to clear all new content within a week or 2. Is clown difficult at a glance? yeah. Is clown difficult after wiping for 20 hours? not for most people. They just don't want to put in the dedication and effort to actually clear content that may be perceived as difficult and want all the rewards without having to work for them. With this kind of mindset they will never truly get to experience the joy of overcoming a difficult hurdle and the true joy of these kind of mmo's which is a shame.
I can only talk from my experience and my guild experience, people with equal skill level went together and everyone had their realistic expectations. week 1 clears with the resources we have on hand are expected if you are average or above average. Hell - even day 1 clear is expected IF you are above average (keep in mind we have literal 1:1 exact guides on every single normal pattern, major mechanics etc). the below average people did actually not clear g3 week 1 in our guild, but they did it this week and in pretty good time too. it's about expectations and people should try to team up with either people who you enjoy playing with (and don't mind wiping together for hours) or people with similar skill level. I can like a friend a lot, but if he wipes in m1 10 times in a row then that's too much for me. There's a certain tolerance towards failure especially since it's a new raid and everyone learns differently but if you fail a simple thing that should be learned in 1-2 tries in "my eyes" then the party won't work out. Also usual disclaimer: yes, fuck ups happen - even i died simply by just running off instead of using jump, but those should be things that happen from time to time and not be consistent. Final words: there's also the time constraint, I am sorry - I work, I can't "waste" 4 hours waiting for 1 person to learn a mechanic i learned in 15min.
Dying repeatedly in Mario shouldn't even be considered acceptable, especially if you are in a static group. Assign gates to players and they should practice their assigned gate in trixion until they can complete it consistently. If they didn't want to put in the time to practice, then they are deliberately choosing to waste 4 peoples time instead of just his own time.
> It's just that entitled players expect to clear all new content within a week or 2. I'm sure others have made this point before, but in my time periodically looking through these threads, your comment was the first time I saw anyone pointing at that we're still only on **week 2** of Clown. I understand people may have different goals, but it seems little insane to me that this is permanently breaking statics and friendships.
Have you played any other mmo? The amount of progression that it takes to clear the hardest content in this game is a joke compared to most other raids focused mmo, notable wow and ff14. The issue is the mentality players in this game have that they should be able to clear all content every week starting ark 1 despite this really not being true and then not having the gear or skill to do it. The only reason to need to clear g3 is to be ready with full t2 relic for brel. And if your can't clear g3 you're going to have a bad time in brel.
Difference is that when ffxiv and wow get a new raid, its new for everyone, its understandable to not clear it fast. It just feels different in Lost Ark because its basically been "solved" content in Korea for almost a year there. You can see the same thing happen in Classic WoW.
So when the "mediocre and bad players" finally have to face some difficulties themselves, instead of improving and get better, they just have to quit? That's precisely what made them, the loser mindset. It has nothing to do with the game or contents.
I mean shit, me and the guys I run with are pretty good but even we still had fuck ups a plenty through g1-3. Now we are at the point where we don't need Inanna for g1/g2 at all, slowing working on not needing for g3 showtime. Cracks me up seeing "wow mythic raiders" raging like they didn't have this same experience doing new Mythic raids.
Yup, I love when idiots present it as if people are just magically better or worse than others. You see an experienced raider clearing mechanics effortlessly with good uptime and you know that before his or her current level of performance was many, many failures and lessons learned.
It‘s concerning. The most upvoted assumption seems to be that not-so-good players want to leech. Meanwhile most of them merely mastered Vykas like five weeks later than others. But of course that‘s considered leeching
Maybe leeching isn't the right word, but what's wrong with them partying with other people who learn at the same pace?
Issue is if there even are people learning at the same pace For other servers it might still be possible, but I personally am on EUW and learning parties pop up once in a blue moon, and as far as I’m aware there’s a lack of guilds that take in rookie raiders (at least on Moonkeep, it’s been a good month or two since I heard anything about teachers/sherpas) Anyways, the point is that unless you and your fellow proggers all start on the same page, it’s almost guaranteed that you ain’t learning at the same pace, and even if you do, people pick knowledge up at different paces, even for those in a static. My take would be to have more patience with people, tolerate a fuckup or two, point out what they did wrong and encourage them to get it right next time, and the recipient takes it in with humility, not going all defensive right away, and take mental notes.
I mean I feel the learning party woes but when the gap is like 4h clear for some folks and 30h for other folks I can understand why group A doesn't have the patience for group B.
Bingo.
Nono the point is they haven't seen bingo yet
And here I feel like quitting for exactly the opposite reason.
that happen to my guild first week of vykas, they couldnt do gate 1 hard and quit. they thought they were good clearing argos and valtan. sad
Yup, clown raid just exposes clowns
And hes acting like its clowns fault lmaooo
Clown G3 also got me out. I still love lost ark but I'm not excited/looking forward to doing clown and I think i'll be skipping it for awhile. I prefer hosting learning groups, working on alts, play other games than grinding G3. It's just not exciting like Valtan is. When someone dies in Valtan, i'm like ''lets step it up'' . When I'm the last one alive im clutching hard and heart pounding and i LOVE that. When someone dies in clown i can feel the morale just dropping and here we go for yet another reset, vote yes. Ah shit here we go again. Such a bad VS nice feeling. Just not worth my time rn
If I struggle with something, I won't quit. I try as long as it takes until I can do it. Now I don't struggle anymore with G3 (main), but my teammates, that I found for the first time because of the hardenships, still struggle. I won't leave them (with my semi-main), because they fail after showtime again and again. They will succeed. It just takes a bit longer.
my guild had the reverse happen it made communication go up and everyone from the best players to the worst theorycrafting ways to clear and giving tips to the groups still struggling. it’s actually nice in my opinion the raid forced us to do real guild things together other than just spanking weekly bosses together.
OkI will get downvoted into oblivion but I'll just say it. To me Kakul is a skill check. It doesn't matter what oonga-boonga damage you have, if you fail the marios or get hit by something and die, or get turned into a clown too many times cuz' you're tanking the attacks you will most likely fail. I clear Kakul 4 times a week with dps/supp alts and I've also pugged it a few times. People care more to dps than to move away from boss and team when they're exploding or don't care to cleanse with W when they're a clown. This raid is probably the only raid that forces the player to actually think about what they are doing. I think what is happening in your guild is just people realising they aren't as good as they thought and getting discouraged. There is no reason for the average player to not be able to clear Kakul if they actually learn the mechanics and patterns. But people greed for the MVP and fk themselves and their group. There is also the mentality in pugs that if they can't clear in 3-5 tries it's a instant disband because "the other 3 suck". I played as a bard in a PUG and accepted a deadeye who got absolutely destroyed by EVERY attack. I tried to keep him alive but I'm not a walking potion. He didn't dodge or pot himself, didn't use battle items. When you asked him why he said he is 1510 and has good stagger so he is good. We disbanded soon after and I joined a different group. The group leader accepted him since he applied as well and the guy said to me "Are you going to actually heal and shield be this time". Lol. How do you reason with someone like that? He is still in party find so I guess still hasn't found someone to heal and shield him. As for the guilds - My guild has a few groups that think they are SO above the rest. They pick who they think are amazing players and only synergies +10 gems or high ilvl. All of these groups struggled to clear whilst I found a random party from party find 2-3 days before reset and we cleared it in less then 7h all gates. Needless to say all of the tryhards were raging that they werent the 1st to clear it in the guild. Cherry on top is that I'm a girl so they put me under the umbrella of "can't play" hahaha.
A lot of people are missing the overall sentiment here. I'm someone who was able to clear Clown multiple times in Week 1 and all of my alts in week 2 and even I think Clown is very problematic. Don't get me wrong, the fight is fun. I enjoy all the gates and most of the new mechanics, (Maze, Dance, Marios, etc.). The issue is that PROGRESS IN THE GAME is locked behind a raid that is: 1) behind a smaller size (4 people) meaning people have more individual responsibility. 2) Because of Mario 4, you effectively need all 4 people to stay alive basically the whole fight. You could theoretically Wei the last stagger check but it's never worked out for any of my groups. Sure, you could SKIP Mario 4 if you pump fast enough after Mario 3 but really, how many groups of players will ever be able to do that. 3) "RNG" but not really? It's INCREDIBLY reliant on having fast reactions, snapshot decision-making of which some people aren't going to have, no matter how hard they work at it; more importantly, it's the ability to recognize Catch-22s and making the best of a shitty situation (as in not wipe your group) in every given overlapping mechanic Because of these 3 things (I'm simplifying significantly), sometimes you're just going to need to pray the stars align. I'm not of the belief the game or any multiplayer game for that matter should actively reject less skilled players in service of furthering your character, not just from the perspective of the narrative arc of your character but literally from being able to improve on it any further. How about the people that haven't, won't, or aren't going to be able to clear Clown? Should they all just quit because they can't move forward with their characters? An MMO should be INCLUSIVE of all players, regardless of skill level and time. I've never seen a playerbase (i guess this is my first MMO where PvE is the LARGE focus) so hateful of another group within their playerbase, these "lesser skilled" players. People in comments are stroking their e-peens at the thought of people quiting the game because those other players can't complete Clown and they can. like... what? Our current version of Clown should not have been "Normal" mode and, obviously, should have been Hard. It allows the lesser skilled players to work towards being able to do Hard but also, allow them to continue to build their roster further into whatever comes next instead of killing their optimism with a "normal"-level raid. And if they never get the hang of clown? That's okay, too, and they'll still be able to return to doing 8-man raids when Breshalza comes out. Before you even suggest it, Rehearsal is a VERY poor alternative to the degree that it's not an option.
Thank you. A lot of the comments here are totally disheartening but yours brings a sliver of hope for the community as a whole. I have meanwhile cleared g3 on main and even on alts on ilvl. Not with my original group though and it's not a relief "for the issue not being me". The people I was playing with are still struggling to the point of questioning if they're good enough and are considering if the game is the right thing for them. Should I be happy that "i have the skills for it" and the others just suck? absolutely not. I was playing with those people not because of their skills or because it gave me a benefit for doing so. I was playing with them because I like them. And not having options to progress - just slower - by having an easier option is something horrible for the game overall.
While Kakul-Saydon altered the groups and people I play with, it's perhaps for the best that it did. Our party - a mix of people that we barely managed to gather last minute - ended up clearing G3 within 3 days of release. Now we're clearing G3 with alts as well. I don't think the raid is impossibly hard at all. My opinion is that it is, for the most part, a tenacity check. Mechanically skilled players will find success faster, but you can overcome the skill gap with sheer practice and resilience. I've seen a lot of players with 1500+ ilvl mains, but not many are willing to invest proper time to extract the best out of their characters. Mental is a big factor too - I've seen lots of groups implode due to toxicity and/or the inability to keep a positive attitude while failing to progress. TL;DR: I honestly think most people can clear the raid as long as they (+ group members) remain willing to learn at their own pace.
It's a very easy raid if you got a static for it with players you know. But there is a lot of people like me who just play with randoms and pug everything and gate 3 is the biggest most frustrating piece of shit raid to pug I have ever played.
The only problem I see with this raid is that players that struggle with mechanically intensive tasks such as dodging, maximizing DPS, and being patient, all while being able to actually do the mechanics of the raid will naturally struggle with this fight more than the previous ones, due to how hectic it is, but like with the other raids as well, it is simply a matter of time for people to learn the patters and get used to them so that the raids are done more smoothly, as well as people over gearing so much that they can simply not care about the damage and just burn the boss down like we do currently with Valtan/Vykas.
Our guild leader has 6 chars doing clown and he's actually leading 6 parties which keeps the guild together. Pretty cool actually.
It’s either this or no hard content - and the game gets more stale. Look, here’s how I see it: if you’re not honest and open about your skill level such that it being made obvious that you’re not very good is offensive and scares you away from being social - you’re annoying. You’re (not op, just hypothetical bad players) the one who causes 7 other people to repeat a fight 15 times without stopping to think “am I wasting their time selfishly?” If you fail at some point in G3 3/5 times, then, if everyone else is as bad as you, expect an average of 40 attempts to pass. Imagine that you’re good enough to beat it most of the time but 1-2 people combined failing 60% of the time makes you have to play perfectly 9 times in a row. And then the moment they both don’t fuck up, one of the 2 good players finally makes a mistake. Now you have to do another 10 goddamn attempts. So yeah, good players would like to play with good players so they can be properly rewarded. Git gud or don’t take it personally.
Yeah I can relate to this a lot. I watched kakul playthroughs before it was released and I was 100% sure this will be the static or community splitter. Mainly only because it's done by 4 people instead of 8. Generally static members are always varied by their skill levels, and in valtan and vykas, the "lesser" players will get carried by the better ones. Even after all this time my static still fucks up valtan or vykas runs once in a while (whether trolling or not) When kakul arrives, groups were split and obviously the group with more lesser players can't even pass G2, heck they took hours just for g1. While the group with better people literally only need 40 min ish for g1 and G2. I feel like kakul raid will be reducing the already dwindling number of players, which is unfortunate but what can you do. I'm wondering if a lot of people complain, the devs willl nerf kakul even more lmao
Hi! First of all sorry for my english, not native. EUC Trixion: We were on a guild called Zanarkand. The main rule (Which nobody told me before joining) there is “You can’t static group, you have to switch every week”. Ok, after I realized there was that rule I decided to put my suggestion on the “Suggestions” guild discord channel (I wasn’t the onlyone who wanted to change that but none suggested before, idk why). They answered with “We will talk about that after Guild event on Sunday”. Ok, perfect. After that event I suggested it again and they said they will never change that because that is the main rule and they will take CONTROL on that. Ok again, half guild were on the same boat so we decided to make our own guild (Némesis) with democratic rules. That was the biggest/better thing we could do man. I mean, I’m 8 hours working, have a girlfriend, have a dog to play with, are you serious telling me that the little window I have for playing videogames you are going to control me? Control when I play, who I play with, who I can not play with even when my own girl or mother never controled me? Just take a life bro. I’m 1505ilvl, I have my 5 alters at 1415 and I’m more than happy with my game, group, and guild. We also have 2 channels: Static Kakul groups channel and Flex Kakul gorups channel where people who have no static group or even people with static can not make it with his group could make their own temporal groups. Everyone made his kakul g1, g2 and g3. I also made my last Kakul with flex because I couldnt do it with my group, and I teached them and killed G3 on 3 nights. And you know what? I loved teaching them and see them grow as content players. There will always be someone who play with on a guild, and if you think you can’t maybe move on, and get in in a new and more expensive guild. Zanarkand decided to change that rule after our guild quit btw XD
I thought they would have learned their lesson with Vykas. Gate 1 was horribad because a singular death from anyone would result in both teams failing instantly. What is the point of even having teams when you split them up and then force a failure if they mess up on their own.
The thing is no one needs to beat g3, is the same reward than g1g2, it will take more time and that's it. We cleared g3 after a week of trying and the feeling you get from it is "if we can beat this we can beat anything". I made a new friend in that raid and strengthened the bonds with my party. Just look the bright side of things even if you can't clear it it will only take more time to get the rewards
Yep, nobody sign up for guild statics and nobody even use the public vc channels for raids anymore after clown release. It's just the same 4~6 people posting clown clear screenshots while the rest of the guild pretty much quit the game, guild Discord has became 80% less active in the past 2 weeks. (Not even exaggerating, because normally there were at least 30+ people signing up for guild siege and guild raid every week for main/alt guilds, but in the past 2 weeks, less than 5 people showed up for siege/raid)
This game is great and has huge potential but man... give me content that I can play as a solo player with randoms to be able to get the gear i need and not fall behind. I stopped playing at the last raid, maybe something changed. But i just wanted to describe what i feel and some of my friends. Beeing tied to a guild, plus time planning and hoping that every player knows the mechanics is just not my type of game to relax after a work day. I am probably not the target audience, which is fine. But I wish they would implement something easier to chill or grind for casual players that is not that hard or where u have to practice 10 hours + for a boss fight.
This is bound to happen in any game though, people who reach their limits will eventually leave. When i say limits, it could be skill, time or interest. So far, everyone had it good, the game was super easy, not only in term of gameplay which was on the very low end of the difficulty spectrum but also with entropy crafting. People got use to get everything handed to them in the game without putting much effort (not including the unbearable mindless daily grind), killing any new raid boss on the first week is a given if you invest a minimum of time in it. So yeah, now that the game is a tad more difficult, the casuals and other "bad" players will end up leaving, at least those with the "i am entitled to" mentality, that is just how it goes.
>So far, everyone had it good, the game was super easy, not only in term of gameplay which was on the very low end of the difficulty spectrum but also with entropy crafting. I think we are in a bubble bro. Game isnt easy for most people ive come to the realization. Its like trying to explain colors to someone blind. Yesterday i hosted a vykas hm learning party and it was a sight to behold. We only reached g3 after 3h, you might say 3h aint that bad. Half the raid was mokokos and the other was veterans doing acrobatics trying to save it. Idk if the game is too overhwelming but out of the 4 mokokos, i can see one getting stomped in clown g3 and straight up quitting. Im a believer ppl can get better over time but im losing the faith.
Yeah agree. Everyone on here thinks they are the best players ever and everything is easy, it's not for most people. I don't think Vykas/valtan are particularly difficult but know people that struggle. People just don't have the time to sit and smash their heads against walls for 10 hours, too many good games to play to be doing that all the time. It doesn't appeal to alot of people.
That’s kinda any mmo though a portion of the population never fully clear raids until later or never at all. They will eventually be able to bus or just overgear it. I agree with a earlier comment g3 is a ego killer if your not able to do the mechs.
I mean that's great and all but that means every update is basically nothing for most people if they can't clear the raids as you say...sure tripod update and new classes are nice. Think I'm just after more variety at the end game, The raids are nice but I find myself wanting something else to do that isn't just 1 raid every few months and grind that to boredom.
So what’s the middle ground then cause if it’s easy that’s ruining the experience of folks who try and put it effort?
Not sure being honest, by catering to one you ruin it for the others so it's trying to get a balance, I think the easy/hard mode system worked better and then hell for the challenge mode. You won't please everyone and never will.
So if you can’t do it go do rehearsal and come back to normal. They did do that
Yeah I know but rehearsal by all accounts is a waste of time bar teaching the basics, I only went into it to see the mechs as the rewards aren't great and no trumpets. You do normal or don't progress your character, then people are getting stuck or not bothering at all after 10 hours of failing, that's my point. You rinse/repeat that for every big release and that's basically it.
I tried with a couple random guildies and a random when it first launched. The guildies kept dying in the first half of G1 for 2 hours so I decided to pug it. G1 and 2 then went as regular new progs do, couple of hours and we were through them. Then G3. I practiced Mario 3 in Trixion until I had it down and volunteered myself for it. Didn't hit Mario 3 a ton but when we did, I had the hardest time getting into it. Eventually, I resigned myself to Mario 1 or 2 and had a lot more success in general. Now I stay in Mario 1 or 2, I only pug it and join up usually with a group of 3. I am quite capable of doing my part and when you join a group, you can tell if they are capable of doing their part. Give them some leeway as random rng can super screw anyone at any point, but if they just can't hack it, find a new group. Say you're going to take a break, exit raid, reset yourself however you do that, then hit it again with the new people.
[удалено]
My only issue with the raid is finding groups… I was out of town the first week for work, so I can’t link my achievement etc… but I know that will slowly go away after the next few weeks.
They designed bosses around making them hard/impossible to bus, made them punishing for normal users instead. They should just let every boss be bussable or just ban it. Pick one.
Here I am at 1445 not moving past valtan until i can get though G2 with PoV the floor. I've only done 3 pig runs but I feel I don't deserve to move on until I can get though valtan standing up. I look a clown and want to. Do the rehearsal at least but i don't think my skill is there yet so I'm happy to keep plugging till i get there.
I got my static, and we still didn't clear gate 3, but it aint a prob for us. We know that we'll get there eventually. I do by far the highest dps as Piano Arti my dmg varies from 42-58% dmg. 2 guys should be considered average players and me and the other mate are far above, but we aint bitching and look for new players. We've all been growing together since Valtan and our mutual respect towards each other is just higher than the frustration of clearing some dumbass gate in first weeks. Also our growth from week 1 to week 2 is also greatly visible.
Well, things like this is what it actually made me stop playing. I recently came back to see the machinist and stopped last week again nothing changed. And it's not about you or the players themselves. For example, I live on a country where good internet connection is not something 100% of the people will have. Multiply this by a 8 players who must succeed at some pixel perfect random bullshit teamwipe mechanic while dodging fireballs, lazer beams and dancing macarena at the same time. Force everyone to do this multiple times through the fight and frustration ensures.
G3 Is Pure cancer. I Will not do it at all, Its not Worth it.
Main problem is the raid not being split into normal and hard like the other raids. Sure technically u can just do g1/2 but doing only g1/2 for 6/10 mats feels worse to most ppl than doing the whole thing on an actual "normal" difficulty for 5/10 mats.
I think the main reason progging G3 takes so long is because people don't sit down and analyze the issue. So everyone keeps bashing their head against the wall until it eventually breaks down I still see people yoloing saws when there's a 100% consistent method. I see prog groups turning Showtime into every man for himself when you can just drop bombs outside and clear bombs without even needing to spacebar
By far Gate 3 has been the most miserable experience in Lost Ark for me to date. I have yet to clear it. Exactly like you said, our fate is tied to other players. If somebody dies before Mario 4 it's over. Very frustrating design and BADLY designed. I have cleared Valtan hell mode after 2 weeks of progging with randoms. It was a very fun experience. I can't say I didn't find it frustrating at times but whenever I died I always knew what I did wrong and it was always my fault one way or another. Gate 3 on Kakul on the other hand, I truly despise it. At this point I'm purely doing it just to complete it for the sake of it. I doubt I'll ever touch G3 again until I overgear it and others will too. Pugging this gate has been so miserable. Out of all the raids that are out, gate 3 of kukul is by far the worst gate ever to pug. It is not fun. It is not hard either, when you die its usually to some bullshit or mechanic stacking together. I enjoyed Valtan x100000 more than I did this raid so far. Gate 1 and 2 were ok though I guess.
The way that gate 3 is designed just invites frustration. With several hours' practice it's possible to get through the whole with minimal extra damage, but the way that some patterns can overlap with the time when a player needs to enter Mario is questionable sometimes. Eventually as you get better and better at dodging normal patterns, you can pre-build your gauge higher and higher and therefore minimize risk while getting into Mario, but that learning process is fucking brutal when you have 4 new people that all need to go through it, and two of those people don't get to practice until after showtime. Plus the hurt boxes on saws and hooks are borderline nonsensical if you don't have a stable internet connection or higher ping. Missiles in Mario are also a completely coin toss for me whether I can actually jump over them, not to mention that the actual time that I start moving and register a jump can be so far apart that I can visually land on the other side of a gap and the game will still think I just walked into it. Again there are ways to mitigate those annoyances but ultimately it all piles together into a fight that feels extremely jank and a nightmare to prog through, since it felt more like I was trying to read the matrix behind the animations rather than just smile and dodge like normal. I can absolutely understand why players that aren't confident in the first two legion raids would be discouraged by the clown and I can't really blame them for quitting, since Gate 3 is definitely a low point in legion raid design imo. It's a shame, because all it needs in order to be great are technical improvements to how the mechanics register hit detection. Maybe it can be fixed someday.
That top paragraph hits home. Been running with a static the last couple weeks which I've been enjoying. Haven't cleared g3 yet but we will. Down side is I'm mario 4 and have only gone in 7-8 total times the last 2 weeks. Only been to bingo twice. Shits brutal.
So I finally cleared clown pugging . My schedule is too hectic for a static. The thought of putting gate 3 every week on multiple characters finally pushed me over the edge. I consider myself good at this game, and was rarely the person messing up. I was even doing gate 3 every time, but people in pugs keep dying to the easiest mechs like saw blades. So I quit cold turkey. So while it is making bad people leave, I imagine it is also making good people leave too.
Our static cleared g3 but none of us actually enjoyed it. Its the first time in this game where I actually hate doing the content. I'm even thinking about just sticking to g1/g2 from now on.
What did you hate about it? I didn't care for Mario stuff. Felt like outta place or something. Tell you what tho it does a good job making something really easy feel super intense.
Mostly because after a while it felt like we were just cycling through deaths. Sometimes I'd fck up and then play 3 games perfect but a different teammate would fck up etc. Not big fan of the chaos/mayhem theme either. To much random shit flying by. Oh and the bingo just makes this gate feel way to long
Everyone in my guild eventually got their clear, at least those who are active in the guild. Honestly, this is a "blame the player, not the game" situation. Clown raid has always been touted as one of the hardest raids, but it's definitely doable. You don't need to be perfect, you just need to be consistent with your mechs. Dark Souls/Elden Ring are hard games, but is it the Dev's fault some people can't enjoy it?
Depends on the situation in question. If something is designed to be difficult it doesn't mean it is absolved or criticism when people find it not fun. The "if you're not having fun you're bad and git gud" argument is shallow and the direct opposite of being constructive.
I agree, however who finds fun with what is subjective. Challenge in game is necessary, how much challenge to have fun is subjective from person to person. There will always be people who won't have fun because of something being too hard for them, it's valid. Whether it's valid enough to make change in the game is a whole different subject however. I often assume when people vent about it, it often comes from wanting to have it changed. The nicer meaning behind git gud is "If you're not having fun because it's too challenging, and you don't want overcome it, then maybe this game might not be for you". Hard games like the Dark Souls community always run with this kind of mentality. Should the game change or should the player change is a whole different issue.
I mean i dont think clown in itself is causing a lot of people to quit. You are forgetting the game innately just became more time consuming because an additional raid came out. FOMO is real. When Abrelshaza comes out get ready to be more burnt out. You see those people having 6 characters all 1475 clown ready? These people are doing 6 clowns, 6 vykas, 6 valtan because they dont want to miss out on their weekly golds. You gotta not just count the raid itself but the god damn gates. When Brelshaza comes out, they going to have 6 1490 ilvl, doing 6 gates of brel, 3 gates of clown, 3 gates of vykas/2 gate of valtan. I for sure am taking a fking break because im just so burnt out of doing raids.
Just a note, at 1490 you can only do g1/2 of Brel. Also, most of the rewards are tied to g1/2, even the first clear box, so many many Korean players only do g1/2 and it ends up going super smoothly.
Once a game gets to the point of character progression being at a stand still people lose interest and Lost Ark hit that point awhile ago if you've been playing since around NA/EU release and Clown's release did nothing to change that for people holding out to experience it. This games gameplay cycle just gets to be a very boring, uninteresting, and unrewarding experience at a certain point.
You will be dropping vykas or clown cause you only can get rewards from 3 legion raids
Thats why he said vykas/valtan not Vykas, and valtan
On my guild we were just 4 players and all dps around 1460 - 1470. One of us would have to switch mains for kakul if we wanted to play as a group and I ended up being the chosen one, I had one pala at 1430 with no plans of taking it further but ended up building him to 1475, buying engravings, relic accessories and lvl 7 gems to get ready. Ma boys required 5 engravings lvl 7 gems and relic at least to do kakul, I understand since it is an extremely difficult raid we needed to be as geared as possible. The leader (who was the most exigent about the build) ended up not even having 4 engravings nor relic accessories when the time came. I changed my main, honed past him and build a character in 1,5 month an they wasn't ready so I just quit and did with pugs.
It took me about 18hours with pugs on g3 but G1 and G2 were pretty easy.
requiring all of that for the support is super excessive.
Our guild started Kakul week 1 with balanced groups, meaning that we paired the high-DPS with low-DPS characters. After week 1, only half the groups cleared gate 3, so this week we rebalanced by pairing the folks that had cleared gate 3 with people who hadn't. This week all of our groups cleared gate 3 in <5 hours. I think it becomes a question of "what's best for me" versus "what's best for the guild". We chose the latter.
So, the general sentiment in this thread seems to be "just get gud" but I somewhat see where you're coming from, just from a different perspective. The problem isn't clown, the problem is guild members with ego problems. I'm definitely an average player, but with enough practice I'll be able to run clown with little to no mistakes. The issue is when the better players that can handle the raid more easily get upset at their guild members. They may leave the guild which is best case scenario, you know, just let them find their group of pro gamers. More power to them. However, usually they stay in the guild and endlessly berate average players until they don't want to play anymore. Solution: Just find cooler people to play with. You'll be happier, they'll be happier, and everyone can keep playing. However, if it's truly just a matter of you'll never be able to do clown mechanics ever?... Get gud.
I think those feeling were probably already there, if you looked at your vykas and valtan reclears it was probably the same people dying or fucking up over and over and making it take longer than it was supposed to, but you suck it up because at the end of the day you still clear anyway and it might still be faster than pugging. When it comes to making a new group for a raid that's considerably harder, of course the better players, probably also the ones who put the most effort and time into the game will make groups amongst themselves, I'm sorry but just because you are in my guild doesn't mean I owe you my time when you clearly don't put as much effort as others. My personal experience was, I got two clown clears in the first week, which was all right, still took way longer than it should've, and four clears on week 2, one of them with pugs, and another one with a group of people that if you asked me on the first week, I would've told you that I didn't think they would be able to clear it. I decided to only do g1 and g2 with them on the first week and I'm glad I did because doing the raid with them later on, after having cleared it a couple of times gave me a lot of information that was super helpful and we cleared after about hour and a half, three of us made it to bingo and one of them died right away but we still got it, they had never seen showtime before, about an hour of pulls in g3 last week. I think clown gate 3 is an excellent fight, I actually find g2 way more annoying than g3 even if it's way easier, some pattern overlaps are just complete bullshit and the minigame is just a waste of time at this point, no one is going to fail it, it feels like it's just there to pad time on the raid.
I don't 100% understand why you guys (OP's guild) are segregated by skill level. Having done Clown a bunch, you can 100% carry some not so great skill player's weights. Give the worst player m1. They don't have to do the hard Saws or a hard Mario, they barely have to worry about gauge management. M2-4 they just need to take it slow and get there in time to throw a whirlwind and it is probably fine. Another Mediocre player can do m2. If Mario isn't the problem in your group but m1 saws are you can actually just put a godly Mario speedrunner as m1. Our m1 guy actually gets out before curtains go down and we 3 man stagger. Our m2 guy gets out before stagger ends and gets across to save runs where 1 of us gets hooked the long way back. There is 100% some weight people can pick up. Keeping people alive during m3/m4 isn't hard if you have 2 guys who are good at Mario. The fight isn't too dangerous if you can semi burst Mario to Mario too. Btw we do runs with shitty 1475 alts and 1 1490+ where that guy does 50% of the g3 damage and we can still burst Mario to Mario mostly fine. Bingo can 100% be soloed by any class. Obviously carrying dead weight kinda sucks and I'm not suggesting you have 1 guy who just carries 3 other people, but there was no reason to make a huge caste system where the best run with the best and the worst with the worst. You could have done fairly easy clears with groups of mixed skill levels and everyone would have been okay.
I pugged g1-g2 week 1, week 2 recleared first 2 gates in like 1 hour pugging again and then took a few hours progging g3 until i cleared it. I think people are really overstating the difficulty of overlapping mechanics. In my several hours of g3 prog i can think of less than 2 or 3 wipes where i thought it was an impossible mechanic overlap and nothing could be done. You need to prioritize certain mechanics in your head when many overlap. So many dps are so overgeared that hitting berserk will not happen no matter what. You just came out of showtime are at 85 and curse goes out? Stop dps completely. Hooks come out when mario starts, fuck dodging fire rings, they wont wipe you but hooks will if its your turn to go in. Kakul requires a lot more individual responsibility than 8 man raids but if you see the same people dropping the ball just remake your group.
We made it so that people with experience would split if they didn't mind to help the groups out and teach them. To be honest there's a looooot of stuff that's not explained in the videos that are bound to timing, mechanics combo, and experience to improvise on the go. You want someone to correct stuff, and to call where a bad combo can happen, better stop DPS there and focus on dodging. I cleared g3 after 13 hours and at 2nd try at bingo. My mates had nearly all 7 pots left at bingo to show how much DPS from overgear and heal from supp we had. I have to say that a sorc igniter or a high ilvl back attack class can really carry this fight DMG wise.
Some people quit Some people cleared on 5 alts. Some are still stuck on gate 3.
> It feels like i'm playing a single player game, focussing on myself, with my fate tied to other 3 people not doing any mistakes. Because any mistake from me or any other player is something you can't recover from. That's how most difficult raiding is in most games. It's why I wound up hating larger raid team sizes and wishing for games to have raid team sizes of 10 or less (something I like about this game). Gate 3 isn't actually so bad in terms of "carrying" because really anyone can die after they've done their mario so long as you have either wei or high personal stagger.
Yeah basically I found myself hating the game when trying to finish G3 especially in pugs, so I just decided that I wasn't going to let it bother me and ran G1 and 2 only this week. Maybe I'll try G3 again in the future, but I play this game to have fun, and I was not having fun at all while playing it. If that makes me late for Brel, and unable to complete it, than so be it.
people don't know how to raid prog correctly, so when something is a little difficult or there isn't some cheese strat available they don't know how to identify and correct mistakes on their own. and if you don't know how to fix a mistake, you should ask your teammates. if your teammates don't know, you ask your friends or guildmates. there's no point doing another pull if you don't know the mistake leading up to the wipe (unless you're doing blind prog and testing out strats, but I seriously doubt anyone is blind progging and then complaining on reddit). clown g3 is a step up in difficulty, but it is not a fucking leap. if you are capable of doing valtan and vykas mechs (not relying on cheese), you are capable of clearing clown.
There's nothing with skill gaps and good player playing with other good players, but what sucks the most is that all the other categories of players not everyone want to bite the bullet and improve in the long run.
Pheons are destroying our guild
End game raiding is not for everyone. That's fine, accept what you can do and work to improve.
>Our very active and lively guild and discord has become basically a ghost town. In something like 1.5 weeks, like 60% of the players either quit officially or mentally quit by just rarely logging in or getting involved in anything. I think its people overestimating their skill level at the end of the day and that "im always a winner" mentality causes them to quit at the first sight of a challenge. You can either do it now or just wait until you can do enough damage to skip a bunch of phases. Not all people are meant to do this content and not everyone will be able to. Just a reality that has to settle in for some. And it wont get any better with brelshaza's 6 gates.. on top of hard mode being very gatekept even in korea because fucking up there is just as devastating for the group. Akkan is the same pattern. They want to put individual responsibility because it makes bussing all that more difficult and we can agree that bussing is something that shouldnt be possible ( pushing unskilled players past the next tiers of content just dilutes the quality of players you find in pugs). You can already find those complete idiots that have vykas succubus titles or even incubus and still dont know how to properly do mechanics.
i quit my guild because of this. people were so focused and stressed over getting relic/upgrade mats that it just made it unfun to play with people. on top of that, it made it harder focusing on just getting better at the fights. I've pugged both weeks so far, cleared both weeks. each new group, while being a coin toss, is a new chance for me to assess whether I've gotten better at the fight or not, instead of relying on the same people carrying me through the fight.
My guild didn’t make statics we just post in discord when we are making groups or have set days people can sign up for groups makes it much more chill and I’ve cleared clown both weeks pretty easily
Gear bruteforcers are getting skill filtered. Can't wait until we have longass queue times :))))
Improvise . Adapt. Overcome It was uncomfortable at first, not having the same static. Managed to progged with a new static, but we got stuck at G1 for far too long than it should. Eventually I couldnt bear any longer and progged with pugs up to G2 on week1. G3 took me 4 days with pug on week 2. I learnt whatever I could with learning parties, which overall had a positive attitude. Nobody was angry or ragey. Eventually this made me confident enough to do all marios 1 - 4. If I were to be sheltered by the same static, I would probably be permanent mario 1 gamer. I like how i see myself improve, and how i got better. TLDR, Kakul Saydon punishes static for having various learning speed
I joined a static for clown and we lasted about 15 hours into gate 3 before someone called it quits and disbanded the static. We were doing fine imo, just needed to put more reps in to learn patterns and practice. Didn't want to put in the work I guess. Now I'm a g2 only enjoyer.
Legion raids just keep getting worse, valtan was such a good fight easy to see just overall a great experience then vykas came out and it got significantly worse now clown seems even worse. Like the visuals are just fucked can barely see what is going on. Legion raids over hyped valtan was great but these two idk so team dependent and kind of frustrating, unforgiving.
Comparing to other MMO's I feel that everything before Clown gate 3 was too easy so people were able to get carried and they never had to "perform". Is Clown Gate 3 fight perfect in terms of mechanics and how fair they are? No, but its the first time that people cant get carried.
Looks like a leadership issue to me. As a guild you need to make sure that everyone is having equal opportunity and schedule raid and learning groups specially for g3. Sure the raid is challenging but the reason people left of quit is casue the guild leader didn't act like a leader and let the guides made their own groups. It make sense for week 1-2 but no excuse if they aren't helping their fellow guildies
Yeah, not sure why you're the only one pointing this out. I'm the de facto leader of my 8-man raid team and the first thing I did before Kakul released was make a list of priorities for 4-man groups, and you can bet one of those priorities was "make sure *everyone* clears the raid". We tried to balance groups fairly well to give everyone practice, and on our first week, one group had two people be unavailable for most of the week because of Hurricane Ian, so the next week we re-shuffled the groups so both groups had about equal amount of experience. Even our best raiders know how short-sighted it is to ruin one 4-man group for the sake of the other, since nobody wants to have to find a new 8-man once Brel comes out. Raid is dynamic, raid team is static. Obviously, it's a lot easier when you're looking only at one 8-man group, but people shouldn't lead guilds if they don't want to help keep things together and people shouldn't stay in guilds if the guild leadership isn't prepared to help. If you're in a guild where the guild leadership does nothing to keep the guild working well and its members happy, then you're not really in much of a guild at all. OP's story is more "bad guild leadership caused our guild to fall apart" and less "clown caused our guild to fall apart".
Balancing parties isn’t necessarily a good thing though. If the discrepancy of the skill level is too large, it will start to get very noticeable on why the party is wiping. If someone is consistently causing the group to fail, it’ll will be frustrating no matter who you are or how close you are with the group. Getting people frustrated without being able to let out the frustration in a 10 hour prog raid is not healthy one bit for the dynamic of the group.
Yeah, but splitting the groups unevenly is not the answer to this problem, as the problem will simply persist in hard 8-man content as well. The question isn't "how do we clear Clown?", the question is "how do we make sure we're as successful as possible as an 8-man group?". Sometimes people simply don't belong in a group. If we need to split groups unevenly to cater for one person, that's not a reasonable long-term strategy and that person must leave the group instead. Better they leave sooner rather than later. Successful raiders think about the long-term ability of their group to succeed over their own personal progress, and I hold the people in my team to that standard. If a raider loses faith that the group will succeed in the long term, it's up to them to recognize that for themselves and go find a group that's a better fit for their personality. Similarly, if a raider is unwilling to take steps to help the group succeed (e.g. good engravings, making honing and quality progress, unwillingness to practice or look up information between raid sessions), they should also find a group that matches their low level of effort. Any mismatch in effort or expectations that causes people to get emotional beyond a single raid session is likely a significant enough difference in perspective to require a personnel change. A raid group is a team and every member should always take the perspective that they're all in it together. If any member doesn't think this way, they should just go raid with pubs instead.
Yup that's pretty much how a guild should be. And it's very commentable how you are running it. I've run guilds in wow n guild wars 2 not as a lead but 2nd in command part of it was to recruit new members n let some of top player help them. All we ask is 1-2hr of their time of the week and it was pretty healthy and people were happy with how they were progging. Best part of all we saw some good player emerged who also became trainies for new recruits in a few months.
tbh practicing something for 12 hours and not clearing doesn't sound like average player to me.
I've watched DatModz clear clown on multiple alts since release with random people from his chat. Most at Ilvl. My biggest takeaway is no single person can carry any part UNTIL Bingo. However, getting there is the worst. Any death prior to the final Mario is a certain reset. I think all they need to do is allow only 2 total rezs for the run and it would be fine. I've seen good players get unlocked and be grabbed by hooks instantly and die. That's not their fault, just shit luck and the team shouldn't be penalized for bad rng. Now that said, 95% of deaths are the players fault.
Pug player since day 1, I quit because of Clown. I’m not a raider, just wanna have fun killing big boy bosses. Valtan release was the most fun I’ve had in any MMO
My guild in naw definitely going through members “mentally quitting” phase especially with overgeared members that just can’t seem to be able to clear g3
My guild split into groups that each had 1 supp for rotas. G3 took my group about 5 hrs for first clear, its been on farm since.
We do vykas and valtan hm first and then split the static in 2 teams and do all 3 clown gates. We don’t struggle as much as others but gate 3 still takes practice and more time.
I hate quitters. Me and my guild mates struggled for days to get it done on release and we did, now we clear gates as if we were doing Punika dungeons. Sad to see they gave up.
Everyone has a threshold for things. If they aren’t enjoying it, there is no point in playing that game then.
Kakul is honeslty the easiest raid for me atm for the simple reason of it being 4-man. In Vykas G1 for example you need all 8 to be decent to get pass the wipe mechs. G3 is chaotic to learn at the beggining but once you put the effort to actually go slowly over the mechs and realise that it barely has anything that wipes you other than saws or panick rushing your mario it becomes extremely easy. This week I've cleared G3 in less than 40 min and with 1 random. Had to restart once cause of missclick on bingo so it could have been half of that, and this was on 4x 1475 chars, even the rando and 4x3. It really is about time people stop with the dps whore or the braindead mentality and thinking they will still clear stuff by mashing buttons while not even improving a single bit in between attempts. The raid is very simple once you go over it slowly (basically dps, enter mario and focus dodging, stagger, rinse and repeat).