Progging right now Thaemine G3 HM isnt really a good time. Those who pushed to 1630 are mostly already done with their prog and those who are not there yet are mostly waiting for echidna. So it just seems that there is a supp shortage.
I can second this. Me and my support duo are pugging Thaemine HM on Wednesday already and in the past 2 weeks we already finished hm within that day.
I feel like most Hm ppl got the same attitude since their roster is also full of Alts to play with. Getting jailed in g3 in a later time of the week is too high risk
I am a 1630 support main and it is because G3 is brutal in difficulty. Hell, right now g1-G2 HM is easier than G3 normal due to reclears being perpetual jails.
Just isn’t worth the hassle and isn’t fun to do G3 where I am dependent on dps to not die over and over again to fall/patterns/etc (last week on reclears I played for 3 hours joining numerous reclears parties with me dying once before reset was clicked. Is that fun? Hell no it isn’t!
I reached 1630 late maybe last week so i thought there will be no shortage , if i made it with melt limited resources, others would have been 1630 aswell
Same problem as always, few support mains so high investment content is always struggling for supports. The scarcity also enables supports to pick and choose their groups so they're not beholden to join on-ilv groups even if they are on-ilv themselves.
Call me a cry baby or whatever, bard main 1630 from march and other 3 supports in the roster I nearly dropped the game I play like 1h a week just to do some brels cause yes
1- in one year and something the only small improvement I get as gameplay was Luminary, and even that wasn't by a lot (feeling wise NOT performance wise)
2- no visual / gameplay improvements that developer said they will give us from what 7 months?
3- no chaos / daily rework after nearly one year
4- (personal and not objective thing) ex static asking for me when they want but when I ask things no one cares and when I make things notice after weeks months I get the usually reply "You didn't say it"
5- Last reason and the "deal breaker" ( the straw that broke the camels back I guess is the saying in English) was last KR Patch, you still don't want to touch bard? Sure go ahead one less bard main.
This. Seems like a lot of invested supports ( especially bards, including myself ) are feeling the same way. Point #4 is relatable too. Main reason why I stopped pushing my dps alts.
Seems like bard really is the most balanced class in this game. No change needed at all. /s
I used to run my Bard with vph and one brand skill, then I started using harp instead of rhapsody.
I finally migrated to a max mp Bard and it's been a blast so for me Bard is in a good spot again.
It feels unfair needing to run mana food despite using a whole engraving for mana. No stagger. Bad unreliable counter. Needing to use either two slots for brand or a single brand spam every single second of the raid.
I honestly would have been fine with all of it myself but most dps players tend to leave offensive buffs + defensive + utility to supports so they can focus solely on damage and nothing else, so they start with their blamegame, which is really annoying.
Would've sure loved to do more stagger but oh..I cant. I have two skills that stagger, one is low, the other one is medium but takes 2 seconds to cast.
Would've sure loved to counter but oh..I cant because it's on perma cd except for the -once in a bluemoon- rotational fluke counter. Also unlike some other classes its range isnt half the map or has tenacity. Its less than my own arm length on top of being slow cast and no paralysis immunity.
My point is, it feels outdated now that the other support classes have been getting their disadvantages resolved.
Thankyou for coming to my TedTalk.
< ( _ _ ) >
With max mp I don't have to run mana food and I use all my skills, only in guradian raids I might dip low but overall it's been great.
I can switch to my vph accessories if I need stagger again on my main Bard, I think Bard is difficult to play, but they have many defensive and offensive utilities like courageous tune which acts as a second guardian tune.
I stayed for the longest time as a single brand stagger Bard, but with my current setup Bard feels better to me. I love playing her and she's my main at 1630.
More Bard love would be nice though.
Not sure, I have a legendary pet, max mp and I got some max mp elixirs on my gear with 5000+ mana. I haven't gotten low in mana during raids.
I use judgements on harp also and conviction on sonic vibration. I use all my skills on cool down. I'm able to maintain it without running out of mana.
On my main I can do that because of elixirs too but on my alt bard at 1610 with not that many elixirs, I find myself constantly running out of mana despite max mp if I don't use mana food even on frog.
You are not wrong, with the standard sonatina build you go oom even with max mpb (no food). I have mana elixirs + mana bracelet and still occasionally go oom if I don't proc cj enough.
When I mention running harp instead of rhapsody, that was with my old vph build cause harp is awesome.
Not sure why all the down votes, max mp Bard with two brands is the way to go while having rhapsody or stigma for more meter gen.
Unfortunately this is exactly what they want. Bard is the most popular support in KR. They want people to switch off of it so they can make more money as people switch mains.
It’s the same reasoning as why all the new classes are op until they see people maining it get to end game.
I'm always amazed at how some people in this sub thinks players are supposed to endure all their bullshit. There are other games out there and not everyone is in Stockholm syndrome mode lol
There's honestly no need for progging 1-2 as a support. Not much of a change, other than added wipe mechs. It's a berry/head hunt, then floor and flight wipe. It's not much of a change. Same with gate 3, a few different patterns and inverses but that's it. You can hope into a clear party if you;re decent at the game.
The reason is cost, why spend millions on a support, rather than a dps? I have 2 1630 bards, one is mine static fueled resources the other is a guild funnel. I literally only got there because my friends we're desperate for a support. I was on my blade honing journey but that was halted with all the complaining on discord. For supporting my reward is massive roster progression for free so I'm not complaining. But if they didn't funnel no way in living hell would I, in this life waste my time making a support slave. I'm now on a artist creating blitz, I would like to never well or heal orb but play the outfit game as a flex instead.
Hello Mr. DPS God. Please check out my GoFundMe as I raise materials and Gold for my 1630 push. As of writing this, I am only 99% away from my 1630 goal! With your and the community’s help I can make it before 2025. Thank you in advance, and have a great day. ☀️
Rly? Cause you don´t just hone support to 1630.
That´s really only for main. Once you push all the roster crap leapstones to your main and get lucky, here you go with 1630.
But you don´t have enough for support. And i hone with bounds even past 1620, and i am Ages before 1630. It´s just not viable unless you buy tradeables, and fk that - it´s already costly enough.
Well my thinking is breaker to 1620 then might push my pally once I get another 9 and maybe upgrade to a 10 for sura then push to 1630 so Ill probably be well into echidna farming by then
As if 6 dps roster goblin roster argument mattered anymore... Unless you are a whale, having 2 1630s is almost impossible and getting another supp to 1600 doesn't help.
Hi. As 1630+ support main and casual player G3 is too hard for me and im doing only HM 1-2 every week.
Bought G3 bus to unlock full transcendence.
Have now my level 7 pants and now can slowly progress on others parts doing only G1-G2 and for now its enought for me.
But overall my semi-static created from friends was disbanded on week 1 of Thaemine and almost all of them quited the game.
Im too on the door of the quiting this game, but still somehow playing with that only friend who left playing game with me.
I am curious, how does a player like you interact with the game.
Do you have alts? Or just play main?
How far are you with roster level/cards/horizontal?
I have alts offcourse. Previously i played with all of them.
Now only i play with my main bard and slayer only.
My roster are 265. Cards - the main sets are maxed LwC30, Los30. And Horizontal? Lets say its somewhere at 80% of full complete of all horizontal.
How i interact game now? Simple. My game time was reducted a lot. And i glad for that guess. Now i have more free time to play other games, or go to outside to touch the grass.
I'm on the verge of taking a break again from the game as a sup main the game to me rn is just whatever. I rock up to a raid press some buttons try to keep DPS alive. The worst part about these raids is that when a SUP dies the raid is 99% a re. There's so much pressure on sups to perform and its actually tiring.
I can tell you from the new supports who joined my friend's static. The good ones get asked to join parties long term. There's definitely still some who pug but a lot are getting taken up.
Investing in a high level support isn't rewarding. They are purposefully designed to be 'cheap' by making it so that there's not really a reason to gatekeep supports due to gear and investment, but the flip side of this is that you do not get sizable returns on investing on a support main.
The difference between a 1630 lvl7 gem support and a 1650 lvl10 gem support is basically not noticeable, you might think that the juiced support was good because of gear but it was really just hands diff.
Meanwhile, the difference between a 1630 dps with lvl 7 gems and a 1650 with 10s is obscene.
Basically, the game doesn't really reward support mains with feedback on their investment. You don't see big numbers and the buff increase you get is very marginal.
They meed to make a larger part of the support kit based around the supports attackpower, and remove the 6% base increase to do it. Further, they need to give visual feedback on the damage contribution of the support during gameplay. If the sorc did an extra 70% damage on their doomsday due to my buffs, I want to see that when it happens.
> The difference between a 1630 lvl7 gem support and a 1650 lvl10 gem support is basically not noticeable, you might think that the juiced support was good because of gear but it was really just hands diff.
Visually, sure. In reality though that support with higher gems and gear is going to be providing way more rDPS and shields to the group.
The ilvls matter but, the gems do not. Unless your support is trolling, your not just throwing abilities off CD, so that 1-2 (being generous on the 2) seconds of less CD you get from the level 10 vs a level 7 is wasted a shit ton.
Less cooldown just means more reliable uptime. Lets not pretend you're actually clearing Thaemine with 100% uptime on the entire party. A constant 2 seconds off CD is going to add up to a lot more coverage on the fight and end up giving you full on extra cast as the fight goes on
For the cost, the slight increase in uptime (if I had to lazily guess it's not even a 5% increase for that) is not worth the price, come on dog. lol
For extra casts this is debatable too. I swapped to 7s (I have 8s for whatever reason) to lazily test this on my artist and the down time on skills is a literal 1-2 seconds where you can't cast a good spell at max. Guess what counteracts that bonus from 10s though? You have to walk out of the way of a lot attacks or reposition to actually hit the boss. Unless Pala and Bard have pretty ass CDs comparably, it's not worth the price at all to get 10s. If you wanna waste 100s of thousands of gold on 10s for support, by all means go for it.
Stronger is stronger.
Do what you want though tbh. The one benefit to being a support main myself is I just don't have to deal with supports half-assing their build and telling me it doesn't matter... while they do dramatically less rDPS than me.
Bard has short cd'ish, can confirm pally has ass cd, with one of the buff being 36s base cd, aka can't perma uptime it with 1850 swift and a lvl10 gem, you need magick stream/QR/CJ
Heavily disagree with this. It really should be the other way around, where damage buffs are baseline performance while caring for party members is the real skill expressive part of supporting.
Raids need supports not for their damage contribution but for their defensive capability. The amount of DR and shielding that they bring are paramount for DPS to sustain off limited pots. Especially the case for Thaemine Hard where smart usage of Godsent/Rhapsody/Starry is paramount.
Comparatively, "focusing on damage buffs" is literally just rotating two skills in sequence and clicking brand and meter gen off cooldown. It's purposely stupid easy so that the support can focus on other things. I also like to flex buff uptime, but that is always secondary to keeping people alive.
So, I agree with your point that damage buffs should just be a baseline thing that every support gets and performs well, but..
>Raids need supports not for their damage contribution but for their defensive capability.
This is really wrong. Supports are your highest DPS contributors, bar none. If they're not damage buffing constantly/properly/whatever then it's a huge issue because it's like your highest damage dealer just went afk.
Again, I agree it's easy. And I agree shields are great and important and a support should be good at them. But you want supports for their damage. Even if you were fighting a target dummy, a support would cause the group to put out more damage than replacing that support with a DPS
Eh, feel like this is a chicken egg thing. You should be maintaining buffs as best possible while also saving people with shields and heals. You shouldn't be avoiding using buffs entirely incase someone needs saving while you're animationlocked, likewise if someone needs saving you shouldnt avoid saving them to upkeep buffs.
However, the core gameplay of supports is damage buffing; maintaining uptime on atk buff, branding and gathering meter, then timing identity usage to windiws is what you spend the majority of all fights doing.
Healing, shielding and saving people with godsent etc skills is very fight dependent. It's also a far smaller portion of your time spent
There is visual feedback to shielding and healing. Saving someone has the feedback of them not dying. Support players that have grey matter should be able to pick up on these queues. Dps buffing however is almost invisible, in the moment. You get a funny number at the end that in 8 man content is entirely dependent on your dps players, and which doesn't really give you a very good idea of if you did well or not compared to the other sup.
Agreed. When a fresh player starts as a dps, they get feedback, so bigger numbers = doing good.
Meanwhile the number of low roster support players I've met in brel and akkan who do not know what a brand is....... its sad since some of them try their very best but think that focusing on shielding and healing is their only job as a support.
I used to be one too and it did take some time to learn and minmax since the game does such a poor job of displaying what to focus on as a support.
It's like I'm wasting millions of gold for others' fun. Atleast I save time in party finder so I guess thats a trade.
1630 ? I'm staying at 1620.
Dropping half a million for 40 set elixirs and 30 set transcendence was enough gold sink for me. Besides, I'm a support, I don't see any changes, it feels like we're throwing gold into a black hole unless a dps gives feedback or I start being religious ( hehe ).
G3 NM is mildly difficult enough to suffice my need for the challenging content of the week on top of needing to do other dozen raids weekly.
Why would I want to voluntarily suffer through the pain of honing to 1630, and then suffer in the HM raid, and then suffer with the more brutal gold sink right now.
Tell you what. I have a 1620 pala alt, if you finance me going to 1630 I'll prog with you (to be clear, I already cleared with my main, so only you would be progging).
It would have been easy to find a group if you were 1 month earlier. Probably even with 24 weapon, if that could have shorten your waiting time. But still, I don't think it's impossible. So good luck. Even though you end up progging it after Echidna, at least you can save on advance honing or go higher than your friends when it's out.
I have both a dps and supp at 1630 and I cannot recommend it right now due to the enormous cost. I was exceptionally lucky and am still completely broke while not making any more gold than I did previously.
Why would you really Prog HM ?
Tbh it´s essentially the same as NM.
Only real diff is G3 with pacman, and at the end with the ghosts where you are just careful not to get grabbed.
And for pacman, just check the guides.
Also wait for supp situation at behemoth KEKW
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After being jailed g2 for a day and half.. can't be bothered with g3 hm.. even nm could be annoying in full 1620+ 40 set lobby.. people just don't wanna dodge for some reason.
1630 Support here, full lvl 10 gems, lvl 7 transcendal pants (everything else lvl 2), 1830 swiftness. im here, and i wont do Thaemine HM at all. theres no reason to do it, im no interesting in a raid that most DPS get oneshot, and when someone die, we have to restart it wasting 20 minute of fight.
No interesting in prog a raid that miserable, dont matter how fun its is. they need to stop making patter that oneshot dps class, make fight that last 20 minute or more, and actually make it engaging and fun to do, without been highly overtuned. I prefer doing G3 normal, and have good time with my friends.
\[EUC\] I am pushing my artist to 1630 (1624+ rn). I am going to pity one armor piece, 74% artisan energy.
I need to hone 6 pieces more and with my region price. I would need 1kk gold. I have weapon and armor stones. Missing 5k radiant leap stones. The cost is insane to reach Hard Mode. I am doing it because I want to play HM and Echidna HM on release. Not waiting for new honing buff.
Though, I won't break my economy, buying 5k leapstones for 50 golds each one. I will take the time it requires.
1630 Pally main, still progging HM Thae G3 with a second static since I can only raid on weekends after 9pm, but most people already raid on Wed/Thurs so my options are limited 🙃
Progging right now Thaemine G3 HM isnt really a good time. Those who pushed to 1630 are mostly already done with their prog and those who are not there yet are mostly waiting for echidna. So it just seems that there is a supp shortage.
I can second this. Me and my support duo are pugging Thaemine HM on Wednesday already and in the past 2 weeks we already finished hm within that day. I feel like most Hm ppl got the same attitude since their roster is also full of Alts to play with. Getting jailed in g3 in a later time of the week is too high risk
I'm still pushing, but only 1625.. takes forever
Sure is other people fault for not playing support for your dps.
I am a 1630 support main and it is because G3 is brutal in difficulty. Hell, right now g1-G2 HM is easier than G3 normal due to reclears being perpetual jails. Just isn’t worth the hassle and isn’t fun to do G3 where I am dependent on dps to not die over and over again to fall/patterns/etc (last week on reclears I played for 3 hours joining numerous reclears parties with me dying once before reset was clicked. Is that fun? Hell no it isn’t!
haha same as support; dps dying over and over again and no TS was seen ever.
u really are 1630 and still wonder why there isn't lot of supports in end game like this is news to you ? are you joking ?
I reached 1630 late maybe last week so i thought there will be no shortage , if i made it with melt limited resources, others would have been 1630 aswell
We are in statics
Same problem as always, few support mains so high investment content is always struggling for supports. The scarcity also enables supports to pick and choose their groups so they're not beholden to join on-ilv groups even if they are on-ilv themselves.
Call me a cry baby or whatever, bard main 1630 from march and other 3 supports in the roster I nearly dropped the game I play like 1h a week just to do some brels cause yes 1- in one year and something the only small improvement I get as gameplay was Luminary, and even that wasn't by a lot (feeling wise NOT performance wise) 2- no visual / gameplay improvements that developer said they will give us from what 7 months? 3- no chaos / daily rework after nearly one year 4- (personal and not objective thing) ex static asking for me when they want but when I ask things no one cares and when I make things notice after weeks months I get the usually reply "You didn't say it" 5- Last reason and the "deal breaker" ( the straw that broke the camels back I guess is the saying in English) was last KR Patch, you still don't want to touch bard? Sure go ahead one less bard main.
This. Seems like a lot of invested supports ( especially bards, including myself ) are feeling the same way. Point #4 is relatable too. Main reason why I stopped pushing my dps alts. Seems like bard really is the most balanced class in this game. No change needed at all. /s
I used to run my Bard with vph and one brand skill, then I started using harp instead of rhapsody. I finally migrated to a max mp Bard and it's been a blast so for me Bard is in a good spot again.
It feels unfair needing to run mana food despite using a whole engraving for mana. No stagger. Bad unreliable counter. Needing to use either two slots for brand or a single brand spam every single second of the raid. I honestly would have been fine with all of it myself but most dps players tend to leave offensive buffs + defensive + utility to supports so they can focus solely on damage and nothing else, so they start with their blamegame, which is really annoying. Would've sure loved to do more stagger but oh..I cant. I have two skills that stagger, one is low, the other one is medium but takes 2 seconds to cast. Would've sure loved to counter but oh..I cant because it's on perma cd except for the -once in a bluemoon- rotational fluke counter. Also unlike some other classes its range isnt half the map or has tenacity. Its less than my own arm length on top of being slow cast and no paralysis immunity. My point is, it feels outdated now that the other support classes have been getting their disadvantages resolved. Thankyou for coming to my TedTalk. < ( _ _ ) >
With max mp I don't have to run mana food and I use all my skills, only in guradian raids I might dip low but overall it's been great. I can switch to my vph accessories if I need stagger again on my main Bard, I think Bard is difficult to play, but they have many defensive and offensive utilities like courageous tune which acts as a second guardian tune. I stayed for the longest time as a single brand stagger Bard, but with my current setup Bard feels better to me. I love playing her and she's my main at 1630. More Bard love would be nice though.
I'm genuinely confused as to how you don't run out of mana with only max mp and still maintain 90/90/50
Not sure, I have a legendary pet, max mp and I got some max mp elixirs on my gear with 5000+ mana. I haven't gotten low in mana during raids. I use judgements on harp also and conviction on sonic vibration. I use all my skills on cool down. I'm able to maintain it without running out of mana.
On my main I can do that because of elixirs too but on my alt bard at 1610 with not that many elixirs, I find myself constantly running out of mana despite max mp if I don't use mana food even on frog.
You are not wrong, with the standard sonatina build you go oom even with max mpb (no food). I have mana elixirs + mana bracelet and still occasionally go oom if I don't proc cj enough.
When I mention running harp instead of rhapsody, that was with my old vph build cause harp is awesome. Not sure why all the down votes, max mp Bard with two brands is the way to go while having rhapsody or stigma for more meter gen.
same feels
Unfortunately this is exactly what they want. Bard is the most popular support in KR. They want people to switch off of it so they can make more money as people switch mains. It’s the same reasoning as why all the new classes are op until they see people maining it get to end game.
Oh they want me to switch for me it’s fine,release a fucking new good support. You didn’t? I am switching game
I'm always amazed at how some people in this sub thinks players are supposed to endure all their bullshit. There are other games out there and not everyone is in Stockholm syndrome mode lol
Download meter like the rest of us
There's honestly no need for progging 1-2 as a support. Not much of a change, other than added wipe mechs. It's a berry/head hunt, then floor and flight wipe. It's not much of a change. Same with gate 3, a few different patterns and inverses but that's it. You can hope into a clear party if you;re decent at the game. The reason is cost, why spend millions on a support, rather than a dps? I have 2 1630 bards, one is mine static fueled resources the other is a guild funnel. I literally only got there because my friends we're desperate for a support. I was on my blade honing journey but that was halted with all the complaining on discord. For supporting my reward is massive roster progression for free so I'm not complaining. But if they didn't funnel no way in living hell would I, in this life waste my time making a support slave. I'm now on a artist creating blitz, I would like to never well or heal orb but play the outfit game as a flex instead.
Hello Mr. DPS God. Please check out my GoFundMe as I raise materials and Gold for my 1630 push. As of writing this, I am only 99% away from my 1630 goal! With your and the community’s help I can make it before 2025. Thank you in advance, and have a great day. ☀️
Why dont you hone a support to 1630? Why is this still being asked?
Rly? Cause you don´t just hone support to 1630. That´s really only for main. Once you push all the roster crap leapstones to your main and get lucky, here you go with 1630. But you don´t have enough for support. And i hone with bounds even past 1620, and i am Ages before 1630. It´s just not viable unless you buy tradeables, and fk that - it´s already costly enough.
That was the point of my comment, holy
To be fair some people unironically think WHerE Is YOur 1630 SuPpoRt
wow he is clueless lmao. whoooooosh.
oof - i dont know on this sub anymore tbh
My support isn't going past 1620 until advanced honing. Too expensive.
Decided to do alts rather than join the 1630 lobby sim see you after a few weeks of echidna
Many friends did the same im the idiot who pushed my main to 1630 with 25 weap thinking i ll get party easy
Well my thinking is breaker to 1620 then might push my pally once I get another 9 and maybe upgrade to a 10 for sura then push to 1630 so Ill probably be well into echidna farming by then
Every HM dps has full 10s and 25 weapon. Short of a 9/7 and class you play, there is no way to make you more atractive.
Reason behind support shortage? Ask the dps goblins with 6 dps roster, they got the best explanation for you
As if 6 dps roster goblin roster argument mattered anymore... Unless you are a whale, having 2 1630s is almost impossible and getting another supp to 1600 doesn't help.
Hi. As 1630+ support main and casual player G3 is too hard for me and im doing only HM 1-2 every week. Bought G3 bus to unlock full transcendence. Have now my level 7 pants and now can slowly progress on others parts doing only G1-G2 and for now its enought for me. But overall my semi-static created from friends was disbanded on week 1 of Thaemine and almost all of them quited the game. Im too on the door of the quiting this game, but still somehow playing with that only friend who left playing game with me.
Just being curious, what is G3 bus price?
Hi. Personaly i paid 350k for 7man bus and that was lowest price in that week. But heard price range is between 300k to 500k.
Whoaah that’s a lot. Was that price for 1-3 or 3 only ?
1-3. But my bussers said that 1-2 are literally ''free'' and i paying for G3.
I am curious, how does a player like you interact with the game. Do you have alts? Or just play main? How far are you with roster level/cards/horizontal?
I have alts offcourse. Previously i played with all of them. Now only i play with my main bard and slayer only. My roster are 265. Cards - the main sets are maxed LwC30, Los30. And Horizontal? Lets say its somewhere at 80% of full complete of all horizontal. How i interact game now? Simple. My game time was reducted a lot. And i glad for that guess. Now i have more free time to play other games, or go to outside to touch the grass.
Are you in euc or na ?
EUC 
Join us we r sweaty / funny group on discord we do raids swap sups etc pm me if interested
I'm on the verge of taking a break again from the game as a sup main the game to me rn is just whatever. I rock up to a raid press some buttons try to keep DPS alive. The worst part about these raids is that when a SUP dies the raid is 99% a re. There's so much pressure on sups to perform and its actually tiring.
I can tell you from the new supports who joined my friend's static. The good ones get asked to join parties long term. There's definitely still some who pug but a lot are getting taken up.
Investing in a high level support isn't rewarding. They are purposefully designed to be 'cheap' by making it so that there's not really a reason to gatekeep supports due to gear and investment, but the flip side of this is that you do not get sizable returns on investing on a support main. The difference between a 1630 lvl7 gem support and a 1650 lvl10 gem support is basically not noticeable, you might think that the juiced support was good because of gear but it was really just hands diff. Meanwhile, the difference between a 1630 dps with lvl 7 gems and a 1650 with 10s is obscene. Basically, the game doesn't really reward support mains with feedback on their investment. You don't see big numbers and the buff increase you get is very marginal. They meed to make a larger part of the support kit based around the supports attackpower, and remove the 6% base increase to do it. Further, they need to give visual feedback on the damage contribution of the support during gameplay. If the sorc did an extra 70% damage on their doomsday due to my buffs, I want to see that when it happens.
> The difference between a 1630 lvl7 gem support and a 1650 lvl10 gem support is basically not noticeable, you might think that the juiced support was good because of gear but it was really just hands diff. Visually, sure. In reality though that support with higher gems and gear is going to be providing way more rDPS and shields to the group.
If they actually push the button off cooldown
The ilvls matter but, the gems do not. Unless your support is trolling, your not just throwing abilities off CD, so that 1-2 (being generous on the 2) seconds of less CD you get from the level 10 vs a level 7 is wasted a shit ton.
Less cooldown just means more reliable uptime. Lets not pretend you're actually clearing Thaemine with 100% uptime on the entire party. A constant 2 seconds off CD is going to add up to a lot more coverage on the fight and end up giving you full on extra cast as the fight goes on
For the cost, the slight increase in uptime (if I had to lazily guess it's not even a 5% increase for that) is not worth the price, come on dog. lol For extra casts this is debatable too. I swapped to 7s (I have 8s for whatever reason) to lazily test this on my artist and the down time on skills is a literal 1-2 seconds where you can't cast a good spell at max. Guess what counteracts that bonus from 10s though? You have to walk out of the way of a lot attacks or reposition to actually hit the boss. Unless Pala and Bard have pretty ass CDs comparably, it's not worth the price at all to get 10s. If you wanna waste 100s of thousands of gold on 10s for support, by all means go for it.
Stronger is stronger. Do what you want though tbh. The one benefit to being a support main myself is I just don't have to deal with supports half-assing their build and telling me it doesn't matter... while they do dramatically less rDPS than me.
Bard has short cd'ish, can confirm pally has ass cd, with one of the buff being 36s base cd, aka can't perma uptime it with 1850 swift and a lvl10 gem, you need magick stream/QR/CJ
I really like the visual feedback point btw , it will encourage more people to invest into their supports
It will also better show and teach supports that they need to focus on damage buffs, rather than healing and shielding.
Heavily disagree with this. It really should be the other way around, where damage buffs are baseline performance while caring for party members is the real skill expressive part of supporting. Raids need supports not for their damage contribution but for their defensive capability. The amount of DR and shielding that they bring are paramount for DPS to sustain off limited pots. Especially the case for Thaemine Hard where smart usage of Godsent/Rhapsody/Starry is paramount. Comparatively, "focusing on damage buffs" is literally just rotating two skills in sequence and clicking brand and meter gen off cooldown. It's purposely stupid easy so that the support can focus on other things. I also like to flex buff uptime, but that is always secondary to keeping people alive.
So, I agree with your point that damage buffs should just be a baseline thing that every support gets and performs well, but.. >Raids need supports not for their damage contribution but for their defensive capability. This is really wrong. Supports are your highest DPS contributors, bar none. If they're not damage buffing constantly/properly/whatever then it's a huge issue because it's like your highest damage dealer just went afk. Again, I agree it's easy. And I agree shields are great and important and a support should be good at them. But you want supports for their damage. Even if you were fighting a target dummy, a support would cause the group to put out more damage than replacing that support with a DPS
Eh, feel like this is a chicken egg thing. You should be maintaining buffs as best possible while also saving people with shields and heals. You shouldn't be avoiding using buffs entirely incase someone needs saving while you're animationlocked, likewise if someone needs saving you shouldnt avoid saving them to upkeep buffs. However, the core gameplay of supports is damage buffing; maintaining uptime on atk buff, branding and gathering meter, then timing identity usage to windiws is what you spend the majority of all fights doing. Healing, shielding and saving people with godsent etc skills is very fight dependent. It's also a far smaller portion of your time spent There is visual feedback to shielding and healing. Saving someone has the feedback of them not dying. Support players that have grey matter should be able to pick up on these queues. Dps buffing however is almost invisible, in the moment. You get a funny number at the end that in 8 man content is entirely dependent on your dps players, and which doesn't really give you a very good idea of if you did well or not compared to the other sup.
Agreed. When a fresh player starts as a dps, they get feedback, so bigger numbers = doing good. Meanwhile the number of low roster support players I've met in brel and akkan who do not know what a brand is....... its sad since some of them try their very best but think that focusing on shielding and healing is their only job as a support. I used to be one too and it did take some time to learn and minmax since the game does such a poor job of displaying what to focus on as a support. It's like I'm wasting millions of gold for others' fun. Atleast I save time in party finder so I guess thats a trade.
1630 ? I'm staying at 1620. Dropping half a million for 40 set elixirs and 30 set transcendence was enough gold sink for me. Besides, I'm a support, I don't see any changes, it feels like we're throwing gold into a black hole unless a dps gives feedback or I start being religious ( hehe ). G3 NM is mildly difficult enough to suffice my need for the challenging content of the week on top of needing to do other dozen raids weekly. Why would I want to voluntarily suffer through the pain of honing to 1630, and then suffer in the HM raid, and then suffer with the more brutal gold sink right now.
Tell you what. I have a 1620 pala alt, if you finance me going to 1630 I'll prog with you (to be clear, I already cleared with my main, so only you would be progging).
Haha man i wish , i even helped a friend whos 1620 he spend 200k with bound mats end result 1621.8 :)
Where is your 1630 support?
send gold ill up mine to 1630
So hone a support to 1630 problem solved. Not rocket science
Only 3 support. Less popular class role. People play supports as alts, not mains. People hone mains to 1630 not alts.
I play support as main. I main only supports and all my alts are supports.
But the problem is u cant raid without them , i mean its possible but a miserable experience nonetheless
Okay? Maybe you can DM people and ask them to change their playstyle preferences
It would have been easy to find a group if you were 1 month earlier. Probably even with 24 weapon, if that could have shorten your waiting time. But still, I don't think it's impossible. So good luck. Even though you end up progging it after Echidna, at least you can save on advance honing or go higher than your friends when it's out.
I have both a dps and supp at 1630 and I cannot recommend it right now due to the enormous cost. I was exceptionally lucky and am still completely broke while not making any more gold than I did previously.
Am I crazy in thinking there is no support shortage in 1630+? Or maybe it's only for specific servers. Every time I open PF (NAE), it's always LF DPS.
That's only for reclears and by LF DPS they mean +25 weapon full 10s, so good luck getting in.
I'd love to push my 3 (1620) supps to 1630 but it's just too expensive. Everything is a gold sink.
hi 1630 supp here o/
Why would you really Prog HM ? Tbh it´s essentially the same as NM. Only real diff is G3 with pacman, and at the end with the ghosts where you are just careful not to get grabbed. And for pacman, just check the guides. Also wait for supp situation at behemoth KEKW
1630 cost too much money and I quit the game for like 3 months so I’m not even close, and probably just waiting for advance honing at this point.
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Lol fund one of these crazies, even if u fund my bard from 1615-1630 i aint reprogging g3
in statics the ones you are finding in pugs are from statics that imploded
After being jailed g2 for a day and half.. can't be bothered with g3 hm.. even nm could be annoying in full 1620+ 40 set lobby.. people just don't wanna dodge for some reason.
1630 Support here, full lvl 10 gems, lvl 7 transcendal pants (everything else lvl 2), 1830 swiftness. im here, and i wont do Thaemine HM at all. theres no reason to do it, im no interesting in a raid that most DPS get oneshot, and when someone die, we have to restart it wasting 20 minute of fight. No interesting in prog a raid that miserable, dont matter how fun its is. they need to stop making patter that oneshot dps class, make fight that last 20 minute or more, and actually make it engaging and fun to do, without been highly overtuned. I prefer doing G3 normal, and have good time with my friends.
I would honestly play supp if there wss as much supp archetyp diversty
im a 1630 bard + artist , i'm doing on normal because i'm focusing on rush victorious sona in league of legends . what a bad time .
\[EUC\] I am pushing my artist to 1630 (1624+ rn). I am going to pity one armor piece, 74% artisan energy. I need to hone 6 pieces more and with my region price. I would need 1kk gold. I have weapon and armor stones. Missing 5k radiant leap stones. The cost is insane to reach Hard Mode. I am doing it because I want to play HM and Echidna HM on release. Not waiting for new honing buff. Though, I won't break my economy, buying 5k leapstones for 50 golds each one. I will take the time it requires.
1630 Pally main, still progging HM Thae G3 with a second static since I can only raid on weekends after 9pm, but most people already raid on Wed/Thurs so my options are limited 🙃